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Khalid Saifullah
10-23-2015, 05:34 PM
Introduction: http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...on-ambiya.html

Day One: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

1. Does the history of the earth start with the coming of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) on this earth?
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Scimitar
10-23-2015, 06:26 PM
Nope. According to the book Qisas al Anbiya (Ibn Kathir), the Jinn had viceregency over the earth before the humans did - so the history of earth is older than human beings.

Scimi
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greenhill
10-23-2015, 06:45 PM
Hmmmm... very cryptic..^o)

Here's my round about attempt of an answer :phew

The reason for Earth was for the holy prophet (saw), like the whole Creation was on his account. . . With Adam being the first prophet and man, with Muhammad (saw) the last messenger. If I remember correctly reading words to the effect of Allah saying that if it was not for the prophet, HE would not have created the whole universe with us in it.

:peace:
Reply

M.I.A.
10-23-2015, 07:33 PM
yes o_0

surah ta ha?

specifically 20:123


although angels and jins were previous creations.

maybe even the earth was.

...but the history of the earth probably starts at that point. ah hem..

the history of mankind.

id love to know more if it does not..

quick google fu appears to show a wide varying of opinions but i have no idea of the sources of the sources.





Originally Posted by Scimitar
Qisas al Anbiya (Ibn Kathir)
Because the lives of biblical figures ("prophets," in the Muslim tradition) were covered only briefly in the Quran, scholars, poets, historians, and storytellers felt free to elaborate, clothing the bare bones with flesh and blood. Authors of these texts drew on many traditions available to medieval Islamic civilization such as those of Asia, Africa, China, Europe. Many of these scholars were also authors of commentaries on the Quran; unlike Quran commentaries, however, which follow the order and structure of the Quran itself, the Qisas told its stories of the prophets in chronological order – which makes them similar to the Jewish and Christian versions of the Bible.



thats the wiki... imma get my coat.. before i splode or something.
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sister herb
10-23-2015, 08:19 PM
Salam alaykum

I have no idea about the right answer but I like to read your answers.
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IslamicRevival
10-23-2015, 08:35 PM
The answer from my understanding is no. The first thing that was created was the Noor of our beloved Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.
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AhmedGassama
10-24-2015, 12:47 AM
The answer is No of course,

Oh! Hi bro Scimi, how are you ? :)

We need to remember the verses in the Quran which they speak about the creation of the universe (including the Earth).
This is the history of earth too, before even the Jinns...
And Allahu A'alam.

The english word Earth came from Arabic ---> Ardh ;)
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BilalKid
10-24-2015, 01:03 AM
i will copy others and say no :statisfie, waiting for answer..
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popsthebuilder
10-24-2015, 03:12 AM
Definitely not. Earth was formed before man or Adam. We came from the Earth in a way, by the will of God, but the Earth had to be here in order for us to be on Earth.
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'Abd Al-Maajid
10-24-2015, 03:23 AM
the answer is no. earth was created from the big bang millions of years before humans started to wander. also the dinosaurs had to be extinct before Adam alayhis salaam was sent down to earth.

in addition to this could you also clarify if the purpose of the creation was to send Prophet Mohammed sallalahu alayhi wasallam as the final Prophet?
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najimuddin
10-24-2015, 03:34 AM
Interested to find out the answer.
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greenhill
10-24-2015, 04:48 AM
My deciphering from the stories told.. (mostly read)..

First created was the 'mind' of Muhammad (pbuh). Then the Pen and then the tablet.

I believe from the stories told, (and inferences from science) that the Big Bang is most likely the coming to existence the 'Nur' of Muhammad (pbuh) or in the Christian beleifs, 'Let there be light'.

:peace:
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DanEdge
10-24-2015, 06:21 AM
Hello,

I agree with Abd Al-Maajd.

Earth was created by dust particles left over from formation of our sun billions of years ago. Since heavier elements like carbon, gold, and silver are only created during a dying star's last moments before a supernova explosion, this means that our bodies are composed entirely of stardust :)

--Dan Edge
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Umm Abed
10-24-2015, 06:50 AM
I think jinn were created a long time before humans, about 2000 years before, if Im not mistaken.
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Celebrimbor
10-24-2015, 07:23 AM
As far as I'm aware, No. I remember reading about Jinns populated earth long before Adam AS.
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Abz2000
10-24-2015, 08:04 AM
Earth seems to be mentioned as a well known place to the angels.

29.*It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.

30.*Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth."
They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?"
He said: "I know what ye know not."

31.*And He taught Adam the nature of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: "Tell me the nature of these if ye are right."

32.*They said: "Glory to Thee, of knowledge We have none, save what Thou Hast taught us: In truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom."

33.*He said: "O Adam! Tell them their natures." When he had told them, Allah said: "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of heaven and earth, and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?"
34.*And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.

35.*We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."

36.*Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood - for a time."

37.*Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

38.*We said: "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
from Quran ch 2 Al Baqarah
man came from earth, so earth would have been in existence?

59.*The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam;
He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
Quran 3:59
the signs we are shown in the evolution of the embryo from mucky fluid to a water being slimy thingy with a tail to a clot like thing to a thing with bones and autonomous organs feeding through a cord and then a creation with traits from it's parents and anceators also indicates that our genes are speedily written based upon detailed records of previous elaborate processes therefore adam may have been perfected as adam a long way down the assembly line.
just as musa was chosen as who he was to be chosen as later in life.

consider that you were also taken out of the back of adam before you appeared through a process on earth and that jesus' similitude of being made of dust like adam and the saying "be"- yet appearing through a gestation processs along with all the signs that we see and observe and learn in creation indicate that Allah has left us much to reflect on.

172.*When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said: "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful":

173.*Or lest ye should say: "Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them: wilt Thou then destroy us because of the deeds of men who were futile?"174.*Thus do We explain the signs in detail; and perchance they may turn (unto Us).

from Quran ch 7
therefore the earth would be substantially older than adam. or at least adam when he appeared on earth in contrast with adam when he was a prototype in heaven.



quite a humbling though really.
28.*He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they offer no intercession except for those who are acceptable, and they stand in awe and reverence of His (Glory).
29.*If any of them should say, "I am a god besides Him", such a one We should reward with Hell: thus do We reward those who do wrong.
30.*Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder?
We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

31.*And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.
32.*And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!
33.*It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.
34.*We granted not to any man before thee permanent life (here): if then thou shouldst die, would they live permanently?
35.*Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We test you by evil and by good by way of trial. to Us must ye return.
36.*When the Unbelievers see thee, they treat thee not except with ridicule. "Is this," (they say), "the one who talks of your gods?" and they blaspheme at the mention of ((Allah)) Most Gracious!
37.*Man is a creature of haste: soon (enough) will I show you My Signs; then ye will not ask Me to hasten them!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycmTLJ3gKcI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHBI7ggw53o
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Eric H
10-24-2015, 11:14 AM
Greetings and peace be with you DanEdge;

Earth was created by dust particles left over from formation of our sun billions of years ago. Since heavier elements like carbon, gold, and silver are only created during a dying star's last moments before a supernova explosion, this means that our bodies are composed entirely of stardust :)
Either, at least 'One God' created the universe and life, or there is no God.

The creation of the universe is history, something had to have no beginning, or something did not come from anything. If and only if God exists, he must have a purpose, and there is the need to search for God and this purpose in life, there is the need to do something.

The only God that cannot exist, is the maybe or probable God, its fully yes or fully no, my thoughts and opinions cannot change history. However we might come to know and understand God, the same God hears all our prayers.

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric
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Insaanah
10-24-2015, 11:42 AM
Originally Posted by greenhill
The reason for Earth was for the holy prophet (saw), like the whole Creation was on his account. . .
Originally Posted by greenhill
If I remember correctly reading words to the effect of Allah saying that if it was not for the prophet, HE would not have created the whole universe with us in it.
Originally Posted by Vision
The first thing that was created was the Noor of our beloved Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.
Originally Posted by greenhill
First created was the 'mind' of Muhammad (pbuh).
Originally Posted by greenhill
he Big Bang is most likely the coming to existence the 'Nur' of Muhammad (pbuh) or in the Christian beleifs, 'Let there be light'.
:salam:

Only the angels were created from light. Our beloved prophet :saws: was a human being like us whom Allah preferred and chose above us with prophethood and revelation. He can only be said to be a guiding light, but not physically made of noor/light. Also reports about the Earth having being created only for the Prophet :saws: are very weak/fabricated. See the following links:

http://islamqa.info/en/75395
http://islamqa.info/en/4509
http://islamqa.info/en/23290
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BlueOwl358
10-24-2015, 12:24 PM
Cool, cool cool cool.

I have to agree, its a pretty solid answer. We know that there was an earth, we know scientifically that it was present before humans were, along with how the Quran says there was already a planet when God was telling the angels about the creation of man, we can reasonably state that yes, the earth existed before us. Humans were created from clay that came from earth, thus the planet was used in our creation.

Abu Musa al-Ash’ari reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying:

Allah created Adam from a handful which he took from the whole of the earth; so the children of Adam are in accordance with the earth: some red, some white, some black, some a mixture, also smooth and rough, bad and good. (Sunan Abi Dawud 4693)

Thus, Earth was present when Adam (as) was not. Jinn also had to be present somewhere, because only Iblis was in a position where he could stand with the angels, who lived in heaven. Did they live on Earth? I think so, because when Iblis fell, he fell with Adam (as), and it can be assumed that he fell back where the Jinn were present already, back to where he came from, aka the earth.

I also can not see why people keep saying that the Prophet (pbuh) was the first in creation, I have never seen any proof of this. The only proof we have is of him as a man, and we don't have the knowledge to state what a soul even is, let alone that it's light or any other story.

And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the soul. Say, "The soul is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little." [17:85]

Personally, I have read that the first things made were the Throne and the Pen. If anyone can back this up or something, it will be a good thing.
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Scimitar
10-24-2015, 02:30 PM
1. Does the history of the earth start with the coming of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) on this earth?

I think the question is not worded properly... by history, are you asking us abut human history on earth? or earthen history?

If it is human history then Nope... because we are not the first accountable creation to be placed here - the Jinn were here before us. And they too will be judged.

Scimi
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Scimitar
10-24-2015, 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
The answer is No of course,

Oh! Hi bro Scimi, how are you ? :)

We need to remember the verses in the Quran which they speak about the creation of the universe (including the Earth).
This is the history of earth too, before even the Jinns...
And Allahu A'alam.

The english word Earth came from Arabic ---> Ardh ;)
The answer is no. Agreed :D Bro Ahmed, he was asking us if whether earths history begins with Adam (AS)... not about the creation of the earth.

For example - the earth has to exist before mankind is placed upon it - its basic logic :)

Scimi
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greenhill
10-24-2015, 03:57 PM
Thanks Scimi. .. .. somehow my head just couldn't get round to understanding the question :p
@Insaanah , hence why I stay at this forum.. :shade:
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Scimitar
10-24-2015, 04:43 PM
We still have to hear back from the OP :)

Scimi
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Khalid Saifullah
10-24-2015, 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Introduction: http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...on-ambiya.html

Day One: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

1. Does the history of the earth start with the coming of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) on this earth?
No. The story of this earth starts long before Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was born. Allah created the earth many billions of years ago. No one knows exactly when, but scientists believe it to be about 4.5 billion years old at the moment. They also believe that life on this earth can go on for another five billion years as our planetary existence is dependent on the existence of the sun. The sun, will, in about 5 billion years time, fuse most of its lighter elements, like hydrogen and helium, into heavier elements, and then expand into a red giant, which will fry the earth's atmosphere, leaving a lifeless planet. The Last Day may occur before this, or upon the above phenomenon. And Allah knows best.
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Khalid Saifullah
10-24-2015, 06:02 PM
Day Two: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

2. Who were the first people to inhabit earth?
Reply

greenhill
10-24-2015, 06:44 PM
^o)

Nabi Adam and Hawa then followed by the twin twins?

:exhausted
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AhmedGassama
10-24-2015, 10:57 PM
It's the Jinns then Humans

It would be better that this topic become a contest, what do you think ? :D
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farhan
10-24-2015, 11:02 PM
:sl:

Great replies everyone, I have learnt a lot from the posts :). :jz:.

Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
It would be better that this topic become a contest, what do you think ?
It's already a type of quiz and contest, is it not? :D
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AhmedGassama
10-24-2015, 11:08 PM
Yes, it looks like the one that made three years ago in Wake Up Project ;)
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shafat10
10-25-2015, 09:14 AM
I agree with Scimitar. :D.
Human history starts with Adam PBUH.
But Earth history is old enough.
Jinns existed and corrupted this Earth far before humans came.
Iblees, the Satan currently, was a believer and he went against and had wars on the corrupted jinns of his time, because he was a believer back then.
That's the reason there's a verse of the Quran where Allah says he will make a new creation, and an Angel asked, "will you make a creation which will destroy the Earth even more?", because the Angel thought Allah will make another Jinn kind, but hence to this Allah replied, "I know what you know not", indicating that only Allah at that time knew he would make the human beings.

And question 2, interesting enough, it's probably Adam PBUH and his wife. Followed by their children. Qabil and Habil, and then after the murder of Habil, Adam PBUH had another righteous son whose name I don't remember, and from his descendance came most of the Prophets and Messengers and from Qabil's descendance came most of the evil people and corruption.
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greenhill
10-25-2015, 09:36 AM
@shafat10 , a point that passed over my threshold of awareness, that we are descendants of the one who murdered his twin brother...

:peace:
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Scimitar
10-25-2015, 10:59 AM
Originally Posted by greenhill
@shafat10, a point that passed over my threshold of awareness, that we are descendants of the one who murdered his twin brother...

:peace:
We're actually Bani Nuh, technically speaking - since we all descend either from Ham, Shem or Yafith - the sons of Nuh Alaihis Salaam. Post flood, the sons of Nuh Alalihis Salaam were now responsible for populating the human race.

According to the Jews, and some other people - the table of nations confirms that Ham settled Sudan, Ethiopia and Egypt. Shem settled the Middle East and Yafith settled the North Lands beyond.

Historians often talk about where the cradle of civilization first occurred. To my understanding, three "cradles of civilization" occurred almost simultaneously - one in Egypt, one in Iraq (Babylon) and one in the Northlands - of Ararat, where the Ark settled (modern day Turkey).

Technically speaking, all of mankind is descended from these three places since we are now Bani Nuh (AS). The people spread out over the earth, each tribe growing and migrating to lands suited to itself. Thus we have so many races, cultures and traditions, stretching back to the dawn of history, stretching from Nuh AS to modern day.

Pre-Nuh civilisation is a mystery, which I believe is pragmatically attributed to the "alien" hype of modern day nonsense theories... the fact that we have hardly any real history from Adam AS to Nuh AS period - or any real history for the time period when Jinn had the viceregency of Earth - I find it amazing that we find some evidence turning up here and there in examples of buildings which human hands could not have made, technological advancement we still haven't perfected in the modern age - etc etc etc... to me these are all the remnants of those who came before us. Bani Adam (AS) and before him, the Jinn species.

And Allah knows best.

Scimi
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AhmedGassama
10-25-2015, 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by shafat10
And question 2, interesting enough, it's probably Adam PBUH and his wife. Followed by their children. Qabil and Habil, and then after the murder of Habil, Adam PBUH had another righteous son whose name I don't remember, and from his descendance came most of the Prophets and Messengers and from Qabil's descendance came most of the evil people and corruption.
The son of Adam was named Seth.
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shafat10
10-25-2015, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
The son of Adam was named Seth.
Exactly sir, thank you, that helped!
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shafat10
10-25-2015, 04:00 PM
About the flood of Nuh PBUH, one should note that this wasn't a flood which flooded "the whole world", it only flooded the people of Nuh.

Now there's a lot of study on this, and I haven't done even the slightest of them so am not sure if there was other tribes active at the time of Nuh, if that's the case then we can't say "for sure" that we are descendents of "only Nuh".
I know the Quran speaks about it and am not sure what the whole stuff says regarding this, but if the Quran says "in context" that we all are descendents of "Nuh only", then I would be more than happy to know about it!

God bless.
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shafat10
10-25-2015, 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by greenhill
@shafat10 , a point that passed over my threshold of awareness, that we are descendants of the one who murdered his twin brother...

[emoji14]eace:
xD

And that dude is going to get a portion of the sin for every murder that ever took place and will take place in this world because he was the pioneer of it :/.
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AhmedGassama
10-25-2015, 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by shafat10
Exactly sir, thank you, that helped!
My name is Ahmed ;)
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shafat10
10-25-2015, 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
My name is Ahmed ;)
Actually I prefer calling "sir" to someone I don't know, hence as always :D ;).
All right so as you like, thank you Ahmed :D.
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greenhill
10-25-2015, 04:51 PM
That point about taking a portion of sin for every murder, I'm not sure about.. the decision to murder is entirely that person's. . As it is stated in the Quran that none will bear the sins of another... Allah knows best.

:peace:
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shafat10
10-25-2015, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by greenhill
That point about taking a portion of sin for every murder, I'm not sure about.. the decision to murder is entirely that person's. . As it is stated in the Quran that none will bear the sins of another... Allah knows best.

[emoji14]eace:
I agree, but this ruling is only for him.

I heard it from an authentic lecture, a group of scholars said it.

If you see the channel Islamic Guidance in YouTube, they have a Prophet Series, and there is a video on Qabil and Habil where it was mentioned and that's where I can refer you to :D.
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BlueOwl358
10-25-2015, 05:18 PM
Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Whenever a person is murdered unjustly, there is a share from the burden of the crime on the first son of Adam for he was the first to start the tradition of murdering." (Sahih al-Bukhari 3335)

'Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) having said: No person who is killed unjustly, but the share of (this offence of his also) falls upon the first son of Adam, for he was the first to introduce killing. (Sahih Muslim 1677)
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greenhill
10-25-2015, 05:28 PM
Thank you for putting the matter to rest. :statisfie

Jazakallah khair

:peace:
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Abz2000
10-25-2015, 08:08 PM
Originally Posted by greenhill
@shafat10 , a point that passed over my threshold of awareness, that we are descendants of the one who murdered his twin brother...

:peace:

it applies to everyone depending on the share they contribute:

Jarîr relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said:
“Whoever initiates a good practice (sunnah hasanah) in Islam and is emulated by others in doing so will get the reward of it and the reward of all those who act upon it without their rewards being diminished in any respect.
And whosoever initiates an evil practice (sunnah sayyi’ah) in Islam and is emulated by others will bear the sin of it and the sin of all those who act on it without their burden being diminished in the least. ”
[Sahîh Muslim: (1017)]

http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-426-3238.htm
when the angels asked if Allah would place on earth as vicegerent one who would make mischief and shed blood whilst the angels glorified Allah's praises and sanctified Him, Allah replied that He knew what the angels knew not
the man who's never been affected by error and has never repented is a man who carries loads of baggage, a weak link in the streamlining process.

we write good into our genome and it gets passed on we'll receive a reward,
we write crap into it and pass on those traits and we'll suffer the burden which is why repentance is a healing and not only a healing but discarding of a bad trait.


Ancient Humans Had A Lot More DNA Than We Do
http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and...-more-dna-ours

it appears that truth strengthens via discarding of errors since the straight path is already there and needs to be adhered to

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps4rjlgmha.jpg


“All human beings are sinners; the best of the sinners are those who repent.” (Ibn Majah, Zuhd, 30)

“If you were not to commit sins, Allah would sweep you out of existence and would replace you by other people who would commit sins, and then would ask forgiveness from Allah.”
(Muslim, Tawbah, 9, 10, 11)
consider that the original kjv contains 774,746 words, the Quran around 77,500, the first chapters are long and the last are short.
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Khalid Saifullah
10-25-2015, 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Two: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

2. Who were the first people to inhabit earth?
This is again a pre-historical issue which has no definitive answer. However, according to some historical narrations, after Allah created the earth, He sent a creation known as Hinn and Binn, who were lower forms of Jinn, to reside on earth. Some scientists also speak of a creation known as Neanderthals who inhabited the earth about 6000 years before the coming of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎). The purpose of all these creations were to recognise and worship Allah, similar to the purpose of human beings on this earth. Be that it may be, when these creations revolted against Allah, Allah created another species of living beings 600 000 years in the skies before the creation of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎). They were called Jinn.
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Khalid Saifullah
10-25-2015, 09:45 PM
Day Three: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

3. Why did Allah create the Jinn?
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AhmedGassama
10-25-2015, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
This is again a pre-historical issue which has no definitive answer. However, according to some historical narrations, after Allah created the earth, He sent a creation known as Hinn and Binn, who were lower forms of Jinn, to reside on earth. Some scientists also speak of a creation known as Neanderthals who inhabited the earth about 6000 years before the coming of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎). The purpose of all these creations were to recognise and worship Allah, similar to the purpose of human beings on this earth. Be that it may be, when these creations revolted against Allah, Allah created another species of living beings 600 000 years in the skies before the creation of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎). They were called Jinn.
They are also Temm, Remm, Hinn, Binn, Jinn and Dimm (Adam - Humans)
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AhmedGassama
10-25-2015, 10:08 PM
Allah created them to worship him.
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popsthebuilder
10-25-2015, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
This is again a pre-historical issue which has no definitive answer. However, according to some historical narrations, after Allah created the earth, He sent a creation known as Hinn and Binn, who were lower forms of Jinn, to reside on earth. Some scientists also speak of a creation known as Neanderthals who inhabited the earth about 6000 years before the coming of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎). The purpose of all these creations were to recognise and worship Allah, similar to the purpose of human beings on this earth. Be that it may be, when these creations revolted against Allah, Allah created another species of living beings 600 000 years in the skies before the creation of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎). They were called Jinn.
I thought revolting jinn or angels were responsible for the fall of mankind and our attainment of ****ing knowledge. Beyond that they Laid with human women producing atrocious massive destructive anomalies. These offspring and the sinful acts of the rebellious angels where the cause or the flood in the times of Noah.
This is based on my interpretation of the book of Enoch; a text that should be in the bible, but is not due to the initial misdirection of the traditional Roman Catholic church.
Reply

OmAbdullah
10-25-2015, 11:08 PM
Assalamo alaikum

What’s going on here? I have objections.

O Muslims, you must remember that you have to be Muslims no matter what. A Muslim is the one who submits his / her will to the will of Allah. We have to know the will of Allah from the Holy Quran and the Sunnah of the final Prophet Muhammad Salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam.

Here are many kinds of statements in this thread. I have heard such things before but I couldn’t find any proof of their truth from the Holy Quran or the Sunnah. For example, the Holy Quran repeatedly emphasizes that Prophet Muhammad Salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was a bashar, i.e. a human being. Quran is the Noor (Light) revealed to him so the Noor was with him but he himself was a human being.

Allah says about the Quran that it is Noor, but doesn’t say the same about the Prophet Muhammad Salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam.

Similarly saying that Muhammad Salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was the first to be created, where is the evidence for such statements?

We know from the Holy Quran that history of humankind started with Adam alaihi Assalaam – even when he didn’t come down to the earth. But the history of the earth before the creation of Adam alaihi assalaam is not significant concerning the life of the Prophets alaihimus-salam and their duties.

The word Ambiya is not found in the Holy Quran and Sunnah because it is always written as Anbiyaa (plural of Nabi) and not as Ambiyaa. Moreover, the Anbiya alaihimus-salaam were men of very high status as they were the Representatives of Allah to guide mankind on the Straight Path. So the word must be written with respect, saying and writing “alaihimus-salaam always”.

Please don’t be like Christians who made Jesus equal to God as well as the son of God. God is high above such weaknesses and God is One, Single and Unique Who has no son or relative. Keep Muhammad Salla Allaho alaihi wa. sallam at the level that Allah has given him.
Reply

Abz2000
10-26-2015, 12:05 AM
assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatAllahi wa barakaatuhu,
sister i like the way you stepped down in that post, it shows a passion to adhere to the guidance of Allah and that is wonderful,
it appears however that we need to gain a wider understanding of certain issues in order to answer smaller questions, this has been indicated to us in the fact that Allah has mentioned many things in the Quran that have only been slightly comprehended by the research and advancement of our current time, the gifts that we need to apply are humility and 'aql, consider also that we sometimes have to go to the hadith in order to understand a Quranic verse despite the hadith containing many truths, errors and fabrications, it will become obvious that the intelligence and compiled plus newfound additional knowledge are required in comprehending certain statements made in the Quran.
consider the apes and swine verse and then correlate it with the dna proximity and i'm sure it will strengthen rather than weaken your faith in Allah's wisdom, the issue of Qadr, and the Prophet pbuh's truthfulness.
i'm certain that given these verses and their relationship to recent findings, any person would have difficulty believing that Adam was beamed down like arnold schwarzenegger or rowan atkinson.


also consider the fact that all of these creatures diverge into "khalqan aakhar" "other/different /new creatures" at a certain stage in development and compare it with the verse:





Reply

Aay1K0
10-26-2015, 06:54 AM
I have no clue about the right answer however I like to check out your answers.
Reply

Insaanah
10-26-2015, 11:46 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Allah created another species of living beings 600 000 years in the skies before the creation of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎). They were called Jinn.
:salam:

Is it possible, that for our own learning, the authentic hadith to support this is quoted, along with it's reference? And if that could please be done with any Islamic facts quoted that may not commonly be known. As an example I didn't know jinn were created 600,000 years before Adam alayhissalaam.

:jz:
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Scimitar
10-26-2015, 11:53 AM
I get the feeling these references are dodgy as anything.

I've never read about 600,000 years of Jinn living on earth.

I too would like proof - I am a skeptical person by nature and do not believe people easily - especially anonymous shaikhs on forums.

Scimi
Reply

Insaanah
10-26-2015, 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by popsthebuilder
I thought revolting jinn or angels were responsible for the fall of mankind and our attainment of ****ing knowledge. Beyond that they Laid with human women producing atrocious massive destructive anomalies. These offspring and the sinful acts of the rebellious angels where the cause or the flood in the times of Noah.
This is based on my interpretation of the book of Enoch; a text that should be in the bible, but is not due to the initial misdirection of the traditional Roman Catholic church.
Greetings popsthebuilder.

In Islam, we do not believe that angels revolt against God. They never tire of remembering and worshipping God and faithfully carrying out their duties. Only humans and jinn have the capacity to do this. So angels will never revolt against God. Shatyan/Iblees/the devil, is a jinn.

Also, we do not believe in the concept of ****ation. There is no concept of original sin, nor of God expecting perfection which cannot be achieved, nor of a broken relationship with God that requires reconciling, nor of ****ation requiring a saviour. Forgiveness is directly from God. Prayer is directly to God. God is the God of all, even of those who don't believe in Him.

In Islam, as Adam (peace be upon him) asked for forgiveness and was forgiven, so we too ask for Allah's forgiveness for sins we commit, as He loves for us to turn to Him in repentance, and loves forgiving. This forgiveness comes freely, just by Allah's will, when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent. Forgiveness does not require any type of sacrifice by God. Both Adam and Eve (peace be on them both) repented and were forgiven by their Merciful Lord; and indeed Adam (peace be on him) was then chosen to be the first person to receive guidance from Allah, was honoured by Allah, and is counted among all the other Prophets of Islam. While guidance and the right way has been shown to us, we, as humans, have the freedom to choose, to err, and to repent sincerely, and should we do so, we will find Allah Forgiving. For all in the posterity of Adam (peace be on him), the door of returning to the right path is always open, prior to death. And we invite you to it.

Peace.
Reply

Insaanah
10-26-2015, 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
3. Why did Allah create the Jinn?


Sahih International
And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me.

Surah adh-Dhaariyaat, surah no 51, ayah 56
Reply

Abz2000
10-26-2015, 12:47 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah


Sahih International
And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me.

Surah adh-Dhaariyaat, surah no 51, ayah 56
would just like to add that the term 'abd which is commonly translated as "worship" means to serve Allah with full devotion in all spheres including but not limited to prayer, sacrifice, living, dying, eating, giving.
mentioned it because some have mistakenly told me that worship / 'ibaadah means praying and chanting adhkaar.
Reply

IslamicRevival
10-26-2015, 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
:salam:

Only the angels were created from light. Our beloved prophet :saws: was a human being like us whom Allah preferred and chose above us with prophethood and revelation. He can only be said to be a guiding light, but not physically made of noor/light. Also reports about the Earth having being created only for the Prophet :saws: are very weak/fabricated. See the following links:

http://islamqa.info/en/75395
http://islamqa.info/en/4509
http://islamqa.info/en/23290
Surah Maidah 5:15

يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ قَدْ جَاءَكُمْ رَسُولُنَا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُمْ كَثِيرًا مِمَّا كُنْتُمْ تُخْفُونَ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَيَعْفُو عَنْ كَثِيرٍ ۚ قَدْ جَاءَكُمْ مِنَ اللَّهِ نُورٌ وَكِتَابٌ مُبِينٌ

O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book.]

Reply

Abz2000
10-26-2015, 01:43 PM
^ the light would be the guidance of Allah

from Quran:
true we are mortals like you
am i anything but a man, a messenger?
the messengers we sent before you were men who walked through the markets and ate food
they (jesus and mary) had both to eat their daily food, see how we make the signs clear to them yet see in what ways they are perverted?

light can enter any person and elevate them to highly concentrated status if they believe in, submit to, and seek to please Allah, until Allah is manifested in their hands with which they strike and feet with which they walk, but the person themselves are just a vessel and that doesn't give the person a share in divinity.
the prophet pbuh would pray for Allah to surround him with light and also taught us to pray in a similar fashion.
peace

`Umar b. al-Khattâb relates that Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: “Do not praise me excessively like the Christians praised Jesus, the son of Mary. I am but a servant, so call me Allah’s servant and Messenger.”
[Sahîh al –Bukhârî*(4/142)]*

http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-267-3183.htm
Hadith Qudsi

It was related by al-Bukhari

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:

Allah (mighty and sublime be He) said:
Whosoever shows enmity to someone devoted to Me, I shall be at war with him. My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him.
When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks.
Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it.
I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.



.عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ:*" إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ قَالَ: مَنْ عَادَى لِي وَلِيًّا، فَقَدْ آذَنْتُهُ بِالْحَرْبِ، وَمَا تَقَرَّبَ إِلَيَّ عَبْدِي بِشَيْءٍ أَحَبَّ إِلَيَّ مِمَّا افْتَرَضْتُ عَلَيْهِ، وَمَا يَزَالُ عَبْدِي يَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيَّ بِالنَّوَافِلِ حَتَّى أُحِبَّهُ، فَإِذَا أَحْبَبْتُهُ، كُنْتُ سَمْعَهُ الَّذِي يَسْمَعُ بِهِ، وَبَصَرَهُ الَّذِي يُبْصِرُ بِهِ، وَيَدَهُ الَّتِي يَبْطِشُ بِهَا، وَرِجْلَهُ الَّتِي يَمْشِي بِهَا، وَإِنْ سَأَلَنِي لَأُعْطِيَنَّهُ، وَلَئِنْ اسْتَعَاذَنِي لَأُعِيذَنَّهُ، وَمَا تَرَدَّدْتُ عَنْ شَيْءٍ أَنَا فَاعِلُهُ تَرَدُّدِي عَنْ نَفْسِ عَبْدِي الْمُؤْمِنِ، يَكْرَهُ الْمَوْتَ وَأَنَا أَكْرَهُ مَسَاءَتَهُ"*رواه البخاري

Arabic/English book reference*:*Hadith 25
Ibn 'Abbas reported: I spent a night with my material aunt (sister of my mother) Maimuna. The Prophet of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) got up during the night and relieved himself, then washed his face and hands and went to sleep. He then got up again, and came to the water skin and loosened its straps, then performed good ablution between the two extremes. He then stood up and observed prayer. I also stood up and stretched my body fearing that he might be under the impression that I was there to find out (what he did at night). So I also performed ablution and stood up to pray, but I stood on his left. He took hold of my hand and made me go round to his right side.
The Messenger of Allaah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) completed thirteen rak'abs of his night prayer. He then lay down and slept and snored (and it was his habit to snore while asleep). Then Bilal came and he informed him about the prayer. He (the Prophet) then stood up for prayer and did not perform ablution, and his supplication included there words:"

O Allaah, place light in my heart, light in my sight, light in my hearing, light on my right hand, light on my left hand, light above me, light below me, light in front of me, light behind me, and enhance light for me."

Kuraib (the narrator) said: There are seven (words more) which are in my heart (but I cannot recall them) and I met some of the descendants of 'Abbas and they narrated these words to me and mentioned in them: (Light) in my sinew, in my flesh, in my blood, in my hair, in my skin, and made a mention of two more things.

http://www.sahihmuslim.com/SPS/smm/s...D=268&BookID=4
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-26-2015, 02:06 PM
Our noble prophet muhammad dabiq was not made of physical light, he was a guiding light and an embodiment of guidance. some traditions state that this light of guidance and prophethood was first transferred in his ancestors on their foreheads, and was then transferred to the lower back of the rest of his lineage.
Reply

popsthebuilder
10-26-2015, 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
Greetings popsthebuilder.

In Islam, we do not believe that angels revolt against God. They never tire of remembering and worshipping God and faithfully carrying out their duties. Only humans and jinn have the capacity to do this. So angels will never revolt against God. Shatyan/Iblees/the devil, is a jinn.

Also, we do not believe in the concept of ****ation. There is no concept of original sin, nor of God expecting perfection which cannot be achieved, nor of a broken relationship with God that requires reconciling, nor of ****ation requiring a saviour. Forgiveness is directly from God. Prayer is directly to God. God is the God of all, even of those who don't believe in Him.

In Islam, as Adam (peace be upon him) asked for forgiveness and was forgiven, so we too ask for Allah's forgiveness for sins we commit, as He loves for us to turn to Him in repentance, and loves forgiving. This forgiveness comes freely, just by Allah's will, when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent. Forgiveness does not require any type of sacrifice by God. Both Adam and Eve (peace be on them both) repented and were forgiven by their Merciful Lord; and indeed Adam (peace be on him) was then chosen to be the first person to receive guidance from Allah, was honoured by Allah, and is counted among all the other Prophets of Islam. While guidance and the right way has been shown to us, we, as humans, have the freedom to choose, to err, and to repent sincerely, and should we do so, we will find Allah Forgiving. For all in the posterity of Adam (peace be on him), the door of returning to the right path is always open, prior to death. And we invite you to it.

Peace.
I agree totally. Perhaps you have separate words for angels and fallen angels(jinn?) The only sacrifice that is needed is That of sin, through repentance. We are on the same page here. We seem to have differing terms defining the same things is all. I appreciate your clarification and in no way mean any disrespect. Do you believe that Ibilis is the only jinn, or are there others? Forgiveness and mercy are huge and a reciprocal way of direction under God that we receive and are to give. However you cannot idoly ask forgiveness without repentance( turning from sin that you asked forgiveness for). God is a God of mercy. We are but men. This doesn't mean we can continually sin and simultaneously be forgiven for the same wrongs that have been brought to light personally under God.
Reply

Scimitar
10-26-2015, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Our noble prophet muhammad dabiq
Sallalahu alaihi wassallam.

Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
was not made of physical light, he was a guiding light and an embodiment of guidance. some traditions state that this light of guidance and prophethood was first transferred in his ancestors on their foreheads, and was then transferred to the lower back of the rest of his lineage.
Can you answer wher you got the reference for Jinn being on earth 600,000 years before humans? And where you got the reference for hinn and binn?

Scimi
Reply

greenhill
10-26-2015, 02:48 PM
Peace to you @ popsthebuilder. Iblees is his name. He is of the Jinns. They are a separate being altogether. Made out of smokeless fire. They have nafs (desire) as do humans. Angels on the other hand, are made of light, they have no desire. They merely serve.

Iblees, was at the highest station before man was created. He was never an angel.

:peace:
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-26-2015, 02:53 PM
Mostly from history books by various authors - Muslim.

History is not like hadith, so the requirements of the sanad (verification) is a little lax. History is more for deriving lessons, not formulating legal laws.
Reply

Scimitar
10-26-2015, 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Mostly from history books by various authors - Muslim.

History is not like hadith, so the requirements of the sanad (verification) is a little lax. History is more for deriving lessons, not formulating legal laws.
This is not good enough for me - you HAVE to provide a reference. So we can check up on the information and decide for ourselves how "authentic" it really is.

History is a double edged sword. How do you study it?

I follow a method of comparatives, and deductive logic coupled with the the study of antrhopology, paleontology, word sciences such as etymology, morphology and philology, as well as others such as cartography, topography and other "ologies" which help us to better contextualise the study we are partaking in.

All I've seen you do here brother Khalid, is tell me that you read this somewhere once - that's really not good enough my brother. Sorry.

Scimi
Reply

popsthebuilder
10-26-2015, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by greenhill
Peace to you @ popsthebuilder. Iblees is his name. He is of the Jinns. They are a separate being altogether. Made out of smokeless fire. They have nafs (desire) as do humans. Angels on the other hand, are made of light, they have no desire. They merely serve.

Iblees, was at the highest station before man was created. He was never an angel.

[emoji14]eace:
Thanks. It still seems that the difference is the desire of the beings. The angels desire what God desires wholly under God's direction. The jinn seem to have gone against the direction of God. I understand the reason for the separation of the two. Just not sure that they came at different times or from different force. I was under the impression that all angels were of the fire of God which is somewhat synonymous with the light of God. One third of them strayed from God's path in pursuit of their own selfish desires. This clarification is very welcome. Again, please take no offence to my input. I am learning and comparing notes basically.
Thanks to all sincerely, and likewise; peace.
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-26-2015, 02:59 PM
I will try to re dig it up, insha Allah
Reply

Abz2000
10-26-2015, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by popsthebuilder
I agree totally. Perhaps you have separate words for angels and fallen angels(jinn?) The only sacrifice that is needed is That of sin, through repentance. We are on the same page here. We seem to have differing terms defining the same things is all. I appreciate your clarification and in no way mean any disrespect. Do you believe that Ibilis is the only jinn, or are there others? Forgiveness and mercy are huge and a reciprocal way of direction under God that we receive and are to give. However you cannot idoly ask forgiveness without repentance( turning from sin that you asked forgiveness for). God is a God of mercy. We are but men. This doesn't mean we can continually sin and simultaneously be forgiven for the same wrongs that have been brought to light personally under God.
i downloaded the book of enoch a few months ago due to it's intriguing parables and encryptive eschatological nature but got put off by the amount of stark errors it contained, it is however true that the previous scripture often disguises prophecies through a blurring of specifics in regard to prophets angels jinn and people and maybe it is for the sake of encryption or for readers to take a lesson from - or both

the jinn are an entire species of creation with gifts of intellect similar to that bestowed upon humans, abilty to travel far and fast into certain limits of space, to spy undetected by humans, but have been put at a level beneath humans in terms of status (hence the foolish reason for rebellion of a portion due to a perceived racial supremacy syndrome from the fact that they were created from fire and see clay as more base), they also have to depend upon the revelations sent to the Prophets pbut who were human and many are true believers who submitted to Allah during the law revealed to Moses pbuh and later updated when they heard the revelation to Muhammad pbuh.
they were utilized in the time of solomon pbuh who ended up subjecting the satans among them to servitude whilst elevating the decent ones to the status of court advisers and speedy couriers, and it is recorded that the satans among them were utilised at the time of the final messenger pbuh and caused him much distress for a certain time, if you ever get hold of the "x-files" of the intelligence (spy) services in your country you'll most likely find that they are regularly utilized by those high in the levels of masonry and "the dark arts". (look out for the eye in the triangle, the square and compass, or checkered black and white surface).

we are seeing some elements of that type racism in certain strands of people such as those who were chosen above al-alamin of the descendants of jacob who were granted the gift of prophethood despite the bible and the Quran clearly demonstrating a tendency of foolishness amonst the masses. whereas God confirms that certain qualities were filtered through adam, noah, abraham and 'imran over mankind. i'm not a geneticist and my knowledge of the alpha beta and gamma streaks gifted to certain humans are limited.

and we see a similar type of racism amongst some whites who's ancestors are said to have migrated early and adapted to harsher environments and diversified their gene pool in their looking down at africans who are said to have stayed put and suffered from the effects of a smaller gene pool, however when one looks more closely one sees that although those who developed lighter skin developed more cunning and industrial prowess, the darker skinned races retained more simplicity and masculinity and protective qualities over their females - so each has their own pros and cons.
race is a controversial issue so i'll go no further at the moment despite knowing that certain traits filter through certain people.

check Quran 49:11 and Chapter Hud 31 for more details.
Reply

AhmedGassama
10-26-2015, 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
I will try to re dig it up, insha Allah
I heard a syrian historian named Ahmed Daoud mentioned Hinn and Binn and he said that his reference was from Al Massoudi.

And Allahu a'alam
Reply

popsthebuilder
10-26-2015, 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
i downloaded the book of enoch a few months ago due to it's intriguing parables and encryptive eschatological nature but got put off by the amount of stark errors it contained, it is however true that the previous scripture often disguises prophecies through a blurring of specifics in regard to prophets angels jinn and people and maybe it is for the sake of encryption or for readers to take a lesson from - or both

the jinn are an entire species of creation with gifts of intellect similar to that bestowed upon humans, abilty to travel far and fast into certain limits of space, to spy undetected by humans, but have been put at a level beneath humans in terms of status (hence the foolish reason for rebellion of a portion due to a perceived racial supremacy syndrome from the fact that they were created from fire and see clay as more base), they also have to depend upon the revelations sent to the Prophets pbut who were human and many are true believers who submitted to Allah during the law revealed to Moses pbuh and later updated when they heard the revelation to Muhammad pbuh.

we are seeing some elements of that type racism in certain strands of people such as those who were chosen above al-alamin of the descendants of jacob who were granted the gift of prophethood despite the bible and the Quran clearly demonstrating a tendency of foolishness amonst the masses. whereas God confirms that certain qualities were filtered through adam, noah, abraham and 'imran over mankind. i'm not a geneticist and my knowledge of the alpha beta and gamma streaks gifted to certain humans are limited.

and we see a similar type of racism amongst some whites who's ancestors are said to have migrated early and adapted to harsher environments and diversified their gene pool in their looking down at africans who are said to have stayed put and suffered from the effects of a smaller gene pool, however when one looks more closely one sees that although those who developed lighter skin developed more cunning and industrial prowess, the darker skinned races retained more simplicity and masculinity and protective qualities over their females - so each has their own pros and cons.
race is a controversial issue so i'll go no further at the moment despite knowing that certain traits filter through certain people.

check Quran 49:11 and Chapter Hud 31 for more details.
Nicely put Sir. Again, I agree.
Peace.
Reply

AhmedGassama
10-26-2015, 03:35 PM
Sorry i meant Al-tha'alibi الثعالبي

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj3p_Tkarls

This is the video that i saw, put it in the 5th minute, it's in arabic.
Reply

shafat10
10-26-2015, 04:18 PM
Not sure what's going on in this thread.

Well, the fact about history is, many of us believe "what we want to believe". So if there's some information that doesn't go down our throat, we say "it is wrong". That's mostly because we were brought up with one type of knowledge and we tend to follow only that, any new information that we didn't knew in the first place, makes us think it's wrong.

As far as the history of Prophets and Messengers is concerned, We only know about 25 of them as the Quran and Hadith mentions.

But our Prophet also said there were 120,000 Prophets and Messengers sent to the face of the Earth.
By name only 25 are mentioned.

So as for the rest, we can only know and learn, but surely not verify.

We as Muslims, whatever is available in the Quran and Hadith, everything in History that matches it, we agree that it's true. Anything that goes against it, we say it's wrong.
Now as far as stuff which isn't available in our texts, and neither agrees to, nor disagrees with the Quran, we say they are ambiguous. May be right, may be wrong. Because it doesn't go against the Quran, you cannot say it's wrong. And because Quran speaks nothing about it, you can't say it's 100% right.

Hence yah, to those of you who want to have certain PROOF, am sorry to say, this thread might disappoint you. Because a lot of the stories are taken from Bible too, the Old Testament and stuff, and it doesn't go against Quran, nor does it agree with, so it's ambiguous, may be right, may be wrong.
If you are the one who believes something about history with certain PROOF, then like I said, you may be disappointed with this thread.
However if you're someone who is okay with ambiguous stuff and can agree that these knowledges have no certain backed up PROOF, but may be right, may be wrong, it's something that we want to know more about, whether it is from History, from Bible, from Veda, whatever. As long as it doesn't contradict, it should be fine to many and I believe this thread is more for those type of people.

Am sorry if I have hurt anyone's feelings, but I was disappointed to see this thread turn in to a "give me proof" thread, that also of stuff which has no certain proof.

Either way, good day and I hope the OP continues his questions and gives his answers and opinions, referred from wherever he learnt them from. Whether you want to agree or not is your wish, but how about we continue this thread like usual? God bless.
Reply

Scimitar
10-26-2015, 05:51 PM
RE: Book of Enoch (Idris AS)

The book of enoch is supposed to be an ancient religious work ascribed by tradition to Enoch, the great grandfather of Noah (Alaihis salaam).

The problem here is that the Jews were not even an idea let alone a race when Enoch lived.

And when Noah's ark settled the earth, there were no humans left except for Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives... Where is the book of Noah? :D

How did a book of a pre-flood prophet survive and yet, Noah's own revelations not survive?

It wasn't until approx 2900 year later (according to biblical timelines) between Enoch and David (father of Jews) - and there was a world flood between then too.

Moses was before David - yet Moses never spoke of any book of Enoch.

the israelites at the time of their slavery in Egypt, had all but lost their religion, and had started to worship Egyptian deities.

SO I ask - what nonsense is this regarding the Book of Enoch? its a LIE.

Scimi
Reply

AhmedGassama
10-26-2015, 06:01 PM
I don't believe that the flood covered the whole earth, it has covered only Arabia.
Reply

Abz2000
10-26-2015, 07:00 PM
i'm not sure people were really into reading and writing that much before Ibrahim (pbuh) and Musa (pbuh), most people before that would have most likely left reading and writing to scribes just as they do with computer programmers today,
most traditions would most likely have been oral at the time hence grace of Allah in choosing and inspiring multitudes of Prophets pbut.

regarding what brother Shafat 10 said, we learn to have an inquisitive mind which doesn't normally reject a piece of information without a little checking partly from the mysterious way in which Allah sends us guidance and makes His presence known, to date He hasn't made an appearance to anyone on earth as far as i know, He normally just leaves hints and cues for people to look further into so it's definitely a way of creating minds which are less prone to dismissal.
Reply

Scimitar
10-26-2015, 07:04 PM
Sorry Ahmed, shoulda done your research bro.

Why Does Nearly Every Culture Have a Tradition of a Global Flood?

by John D. Morris, Ph.D.

Evidence for CreationEvidence from ScienceEvidence from the Earth SciencesThe Global Flood Is the Key to the PastGeological Evidence Indicates Rapid Formation

"Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" (I Corinthians 1:20)
One of the strongest evidences for the global flood which annihilated all people on Earth except for Noah and his family, has been the ubiquitous presence of flood legends in the folklore of people groups from around the world. And the stories are all so similar. Local geography and cultural aspects may be present but they all seem to be telling the same story.
Over the years I have collected more than 200 of these stories, originally reported by various missionaries, anthropologists, and ethnologists.
While the differences are not always trivial, the common essence of the stories is instructive as compiled below:

  1. Is there a favored family? 88%
  2. Were they forewarned? 66%
  3. Is flood due to wickedness of man? 66%
  4. Is catastrophe only a flood? 95%
  5. Was flood global? 95%
  6. Is survival due to a boat? 70%
  7. Were animals also saved? 67%
  8. Did animals play any part? 73%
  9. Did survivors land on a mountain? 57%
  10. Was the geography local? 82%
  11. Were birds sent out? 35%
  12. Was the rainbow mentioned? 7%
  13. Did survivors offer a sacrifice? 13%
  14. Were specifically eight persons saved? 9%

Putting them all back together, the story would read something like this:
Once there was a worldwide flood, sent by God to judge the wickedness of man. But there was one righteous family which was forewarned of the coming flood. They built a boat on which they survived the flood along with the animals. As the flood ended, their boat landed on a high mountain from which they descended and repopulated the whole earth.
Of course the story sounds much like the Biblical story of the great flood of Noah's day. The most similar accounts are typically from middle eastern cultures, but surprisingly similar legends are found in South America and the Pacific Islands and elsewhere. None of these stories contains the beauty, clarity, and believable detail given in the Bible, but each is meaningful to their own culture.
Anthropologists will tell you that a myth is often the faded memory of a real event. Details may have been added, lost, or obscured in the telling and retelling, but the kernel of truth remains. When two separate cultures have the same "myth" in their body of folklore, their ancestors must have either experienced the same event, or they both descended from a common ancestral source which itself experienced the event.
The only credible way to understand the widespread, similar flood legends is to recognize that all people living today, even though separated geographically, linguistically, and culturally, have descended from the few real people who survived a real global flood, on a real boat which eventually landed on a real mountain. Their descendants now fill the globe, never to forget the real event.
But, of course, this is not the view of most modern scholars. They prefer to believe that something in our commonly evolved psyche forces each culture to invent the same imaginary flood legend with no basis in real history. Instead of scholarship, this is "willful ignorance" of the fact that "the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (II Peter 3:5,6).
Cite this article: John D. Morris, Ph.D. 2001. Why Does Nearly Every Culture Have a Tradition of a Global Flood?. Acts & Facts. 30 (9).

http://www.icr.org/article/570/270/


Twentieth-century geologists taught the familiar maxim: "The present is the key to the past."
But now that catastrophic processes are widely employed to describe the strata record, twenty-first century geologists are wondering whether "marine flood sedimentation is the key to the past."
Geological strata and their contained marine fossils provide critical evidence that the ocean once covered the continents, even the highest continental areas. Extremely widespread strata blankets argue for an intercontinental or global flood.
The Sauk Sequence extends throughout North America and appears to extend into Europe. The Tippecanoe Sequence also covers much of North America and may well extend into Europe and Africa. There are also intercontinental redbed sequences, intercontinental tuff beds, and coal-bearing strata cycles.
Granular, water-charged sediment flows result in very rapid stratification. Dilute flows produce thick sequences of plane beds, graded beds, and crossbeds by sustained unidirectional flow. Such flows also produce thick sequences of hummocky beds by sustained bidirectional flow.
Concentrated sediment flows produce thick strata sequences by abrupt deposition from liquefied suspension or evenly bedded strata by flow transformation to a tractive current.
These and many other obvious processes are leading many geologists to construct a global flood model for earth history.
http://www.icr.org/geological-strata

Now watch this:

* Hydroplate Theory Video



Dr Walter Brown hypothesised that the flood waters gushed forth from the earth as the hydroplates shifted and the waters from the deep swelled up to the surface of the earth.


In the Qur'an:


We revealed to him: "Build the Ship under Our supervision and as We reveal. When Our command comes and water bubbles up from the earth*, load into it a pair of every species, and your family-except for those among them against whom the word has already gone ahead. And do not address Me concerning those who do wrong. They shall be drowned." (Qur'an, 23:27)


Scimi
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-26-2015, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Three: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

3. Why did Allah create the Jinn?
Allah created the Jinn to take over the duty of worshiping Allah and to be His vicegerent on earth. In order to achieve this, He sent an army of Jinn to subdue these other beings, which they successfully did. They were then assigned to dwell on earth and to worship Allah. For their guidance, 800 prophets were sent, but they slew them all and caused much corruption on earth. In order to restore order, Allah sent an army of angels, led by Azazil, the Jinn, to subdue them and confine them to remote islands and high mountains. Only the pious jinn were left alone. This brought an end to the rule of the Jinn on earth, but there was one pious Jinn named Azazil, who was but a child at that stage, who was uplifted to the skies. (Hidayat ke Chiragh of Maulana M. Abdur Rahman Mazhari, vol. 1, page 57)
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Khalid Saifullah
10-26-2015, 07:23 PM
Day Four: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

4. Provide a little more information on the origin of the Jinn?
Reply

Scimitar
10-26-2015, 07:34 PM
They were created from a smokeless fire.

What do you want to know?

They were given nafs as a gift, but no imaan.

Angels were given Imaan but not nafs.

Humans were given both - the great contadiction exists within us.

Scimi
Reply

AhmedGassama
10-26-2015, 07:37 PM
Okay, but i didn't get why God can destroy the other nations in the world just because of the sins of the tribe of Nuh (as)
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Scimitar
10-26-2015, 08:16 PM
The tribe of Nuh? which tribe?

How many tribes were there? do you know? do you need to know?

All you need to know is that the whole worlds inhabitants, except the family of Nuh AS were unbelievers, and no good was coming from them.

Thus, the world was destroyed by the flood.

it amazes me how Arabs always go on about tribal affiliation as if that were a get out of jail free card :D

Scimi
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-26-2015, 08:16 PM
Allah only destroyed the tribe of Nuh as. They were the only people on the earth at that stage
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Scimitar
10-26-2015, 08:38 PM
exactly my point :)

Scimi
Reply

farhan
10-26-2015, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Four: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

4. Provide a little more information on the origin of the Jinn?
“He created the human from a clay, like pottery. And the Jinn He created from a smokeless fire.” (55:14-15)

“And We have created man from a clay hardened and shaped. And the Jinn, We created him before that from the fire of the fierce hot winds.” (15:26-27)
Reply

shafat10
10-26-2015, 09:38 PM
I don't usually refer to links, but what I would write in words, I have taken from a video that helped me comprehend it.

Most of the scholars today agree that the "whole world" wasn't flooded. Even scientific evidence proves that the whole world wasn't flooded at the time of Nuh PBUH.

Here's an explanation of it:

How would you refute these then?
Reply

popsthebuilder
10-26-2015, 09:51 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
RE: Book of Enoch (Idris AS)

The book of enoch is supposed to be an ancient religious work ascribed by tradition to Enoch, the great grandfather of Noah (Alaihis salaam).

The problem here is that the Jews were not even an idea let alone a race when Enoch lived.

And when Noah's ark settled the earth, there were no humans left except for Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives... Where is the book of Noah? :D

How did a book of a pre-flood prophet survive and yet, Noah's own revelations not survive?

It wasn't until approx 2900 year later (according to biblical timelines) between Enoch and David (father of Jews) - and there was a world flood between then too.

Moses was before David - yet Moses never spoke of any book of Enoch.

the israelites at the time of their slavery in Egypt, had all but lost their religion, and had started to worship Egyptian deities.

SO I ask - what nonsense is this regarding the Book of Enoch? its a LIE.

Scimi
Th book of Enoch is dated back to 300bc. It is written in Aramaic and Hebrew, and can be found in the dead sea scrolls. I don't know exactly why it isn't canonical, but it should be. The original book is older than the dead sea scrolls. Why do you consider it a forgery or lie? Do you consider the dead sea scrolls to also be forgeries? The book is quite prophetic.Thanks, peace.
Reply

Scimitar
10-26-2015, 10:07 PM
mixed theories from so called "scientific experts in their respective fields" - your picture hardly constitutes as evidence though.

In an interview with Christiane Amanpour for ABC News, Robert Ballard, one of the world's best-known underwater archaeologists, talked about his findings. His team is probing the depths of the Black Sea off the coast of Turkey in search of traces of an ancient civilization hidden underwater since the time of Noah.

Ballard's track record for finding the impossible is well known. In 1985, using a robotic submersible equipped with remote-controlled cameras, Ballard and his crew hunted down the world's most famous shipwreck, the Titanic.
Now Ballard is using even more advanced robotic technology to travel farther back in time. He is on a marine archeological mission that might support the story of Noah. He said some 12,000 years ago, much of the world was covered in ice.
"Where I live in Connecticut was ice a mile above my house, all the way back to the North Pole, about 15 million kilometers, that's a big ice cube," he said. "But then it started to melt. We're talking about the floods of our living history."
The water from the melting glaciers began to rush toward the world's oceans, Ballard said, causing floods all around the world.
"The questions is, was there a mother of all floods," Ballard said.
According to a controversial theory proposed by two Columbia University scientists, there really was one in the Black Sea region. They believe that the now-salty Black Sea was once an isolated freshwater lake surrounded by farmland, until it was flooded by an enormous wall of water from the rising Mediterranean Sea. The force of the water was two hundred times that of Niagara Falls, sweeping away everything in its path.
Fascinated by the idea, Ballard and his team decided to investigate.
"We went in there to look for the flood," he said. "Not just a slow moving, advancing rise of sea level, but a really big flood that then stayed... The land that went under stayed under."
Four hundred feet below the surface, they unearthed an ancient shoreline, proof to Ballard that a catastrophic event did happen in the Black Sea. By carbon dating shells found along the shoreline, Ballard said he believes they have established a timeline for that catastrophic event, which he estimates happened around 5,000 BC. Some experts believe this was around the time when Noah's flood could have occurred.
"It probably was a bad day," Ballard said. "At some magic moment, it broke through and flooded this place violently, and a lot of real estate, 150,000 square kilometers of land, went under."
The theory goes on to suggest that the story of this traumatic event, seared into the collective memory of the survivors, was passed down from generation to generation and eventually inspired the biblical account of Noah.
Noah is described in the Bible as a family man, a father of three, who is about to celebrate his 600th birthday.
"In the early chapters of Genesis, people live 800 years, 700 years, 900 years," said Rabbi Burt Visotzky, a professor of Talmud and Rabbinics at the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York. "Those are mythic numbers, those are way too big. We don't quite know what to do with that. So sometimes those large numbers, I think, also serve to reinforce the mystery of the text."
Some of the details of the Noah story seem mythical, so many biblical scholars believe the story of Noah and the Ark was inspired by the legendary flood stories of nearby Mesopotamia, in particular "The Epic of Gilgamesh." These ancient narratives were already being passed down from one generation to the next, centuries before Noah appeared in the Bible.
"The earlier Mesopotamian stories are very similar where the gods are sending a flood to wipe out humans," said biblical archaeologist Eric Cline. "There's one man they choose to survive. He builds a boat and brings on animals and lands on a mountain and lives happily ever after? I would argue that it's the same story."
Catastrophic events of this kind are not unique to the Bible. Some contemporary examples include the 2004 tsunami that wiped out villages on the coasts of 11 countries surrounding the Indian Ocean. There was also Hurricane Katrina, described as the worst hurricane in United States history.
Scholars aren't sure if the biblical flood was larger or smaller than these modern day disasters, but they do think the experiences of people in ancient times were similar to our own.
"If you witness a terrible natural disaster, yes, you want a scientific explanation why this has happened," said Karen Armstrong, author of "A History of God." "But you also need to something that will help you to assuage your grief and anguish and rage. And it is here that myth helps us through that."
Regardless of whether the details of the Noah story are historically accurate, Armstrong believes this story and all the Biblical stories are telling us "about our predicament in the world now."
Back in the Black Sea, Ballard said he is aware that not everyone agrees with his conclusions about the time and size of the flood, but he's confident he's on the path to finding something from the biblical period.
"We started finding structures that looked like they were man-made structures," Ballard said. "That's where we are focusing our attention right now."
At first Ballard's team found piles of ancient pottery, but then they made an even more important discovery. Last year, Ballard discovered a vessel and one of its crew members in the Black Sea.
"That is a perfectly preserved ancient shipwreck in all its wood, looks like a lumber yard," he said. "But if you look closely, you will see the femur bone and actually a molar."
The shipwreck was in surprisingly good condition, preserved because the Black Sea has almost no oxygen in it, which slows down the process of decay, but it does not date back as far as the story of Noah.
"The oldest shipwreck that we have discovered so far of that area is around 500 BC, classical period," Ballard said. "But the question is you just keep searching. It's a matter of statistics."
Still, Ballard said the find gives him hope that he will discover something older "because there, in fact, the deep sea is the largest museum on Earth," he said.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-suggests-biblical-great-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533
Reply

Scimitar
10-26-2015, 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by popsthebuilder
Th book of Enoch is dated back to 300bc. It is written in Aramaic and Hebrew, and can be found in the dead sea scrolls. I don't know exactly why it isn't canonical, but it should be. The original book is older than the dead sea scrolls. Why do you consider it a forgery or lie? Do you consider the dead sea scrolls to also be forgeries? The book is quite prophetic.Thanks, peace.
It's a question of logic.

The Jews lost their Torah when they were capture by Nebuchadnezzar and taken as slaves to babylon. Over that 70 year period, all trace of their religion was taken so no Torahs were in existence.

The Torah was re-written from memory and has been undergoing revisions right up til the canon process - so I ask, how can a work attributed to the Prophet Enoch who apparently lived almost 4000 years before that time, still exist in the 3rd century BCE?

Of course its known as an apocryphal work, meaning it is of unknown authorship, doubtful authenticity, or spurious, not to be considered in the canon.

That's why it isn't there - they got that right at least.

Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
10-26-2015, 10:56 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
They were created from a smokeless fire.

What do you want to know?

They were given nafs as a gift, but no imaan.

Angels were given Imaan but not nafs.

Humans were given both - the great contadiction exists within us.

Scimi
come on bro, they're like humans in nature of imaan though their pride is more difficult for them to overcome due to the fact that Allah chose lowly and base man over them like He chose Yusuf over his brothers "though they were a strong lot",
they have their tranformers and star travelling abilities but sometimes get chased down from the lower heaven by piercing bright flames when they get caught eavesdropping on the transmissions to angels.

but imaan is a thing which Allah has not deprived them of:

1.*Say: It has been revealed to me that a company of Jinns listened (to the Qur'an). They said, 'We have really heard a wonderful Recital!
2.*'It gives guidance to the Right, and we have believed therein: we shall not join (in worship) any (gods) with our Lord.
3.*'And Exalted is the Majesty of our Lord: He has taken neither a wife nor a son.
4.*'There were some foolish ones among us, who used to utter extravagant lies against Allah.
5.*'But we do think that no man or spirit should say aught that untrue against Allah.
6.*'True, there were persons among mankind who took shelter with persons among the Jinns, but they increased them in folly.
7.*'And they (came to) think as ye thought, that Allah would not raise up any one (to Judgment).
8.*'And we pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires.
9.*'We used, indeed, to sit there in (hidden) stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listen now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush.
10.*'And we understand not whether ill is intended to those on earth, or whether their Lord (really) intends to guide them to right conduct.
11.*'There are among us some that are righteous, and some the contrary: we follow divergent paths.
12.*'But we think that we can by no means frustrate Allah throughout the earth, nor can we frustrate Him by flight.
13.*'And as for us, since we have listened to the Guidance, we have accepted it: and any who believes in his Lord has no fear, either of a short (account) or of any injustice.
14.*'Amongst us are some that submit their wills (to Allah., and some that swerve from justice. Now those who submit their wills - they have sought out (the path) of right conduct:
15.*'But those who swerve,- they are (but) fuel for Hell-fire'-

Quran Chapter 7:1-15
ok regarding origin we haven't been given much information but have read in Islamic books that mr diablo/diabolis/iblis was the commander of the jinn and probably hoping to be khalifah on earth, he was knows as a "most worshipful master" ( a term which the masons now use to refer to their grand masters of lodges).

from various vague sources we are told that he was chief sentinel of some sort (the term "shaytaan" / "satan" / "sataniel" appear to mean sentinel.

they have the ability to fuse/merge/shadow their spirits with the spirits of mankind and even mess with the chemical balance in the brain in a backdoor trojan manner, therefore it can be deduced/theorised that there is a form of electricity/radio interference in them since the lithium and alkiline etc in the brain produce currents and voltages through nerves to process information and send commands to the body through the spine.
a bit like agent smith entering the bodies in the matrix, the people with the thingummys in their heads that tether to the control chairs and the people in inception are like the human khannaas who whisper evil thoughts mentioned in surah naas or those blue monkey demons in the immobility boxes in avatar.

lol this sounds too outrageous i'm gonna take a rest.
Reply

Scimitar
10-26-2015, 11:36 PM
It is said that Iblees attained the rank of Angels because his worship rivalled their even though he never had imaan - he desired to worship Allah from his nafs.

And the Prophet pbuh had Nafs Zakkiyyah.

Can this be possible? Can you entertain this idea? For a Jinn? one that wasn't given Imaan and so - eventually let his ego get the better of him?

Think on that. get back to me.

Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
10-26-2015, 11:54 PM
i think he had the option of imaan but chose to try and flatter God so that he would get the job, then God tested him with Adam and he showed his true colours.the angels are made of light however humans and jinn were given darkness and light.since Allah has given both jinn and humans an amount of free will from His own presence and a desire for domination and power Iblis was probably biding his time.now the masons have been working with them after being deceived into thinking that they'd take dominion but some crazy dude appeared to undeceive the masses.
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Scimitar
10-27-2015, 12:05 AM
There are 4 types of nafs I know about from study.

The Evil Soul

The Quran describes three different types of nafs. The first one is the lowest kind, called nafs al-ammara, or the evil soul. The Quran says, “Lo! the (human) soul enjoineth unto evil, save that whereon my Lord hath mercy.” This nafs pushes the individual to do wrong and pursue worldly desires such as wealth, fame, power, physical gratification and exploitation of others.

The Self-Reproaching Soul

The second type of nafs described in the Quran is called nafs al-lawwamah, or the self-reproaching soul. The Quran says “And I do call to witness the self-reproaching spirit.“ As an individual struggles to replace his wrongdoings with good actions, the reproachful soul takes over. This soul is an individual’s conscience talking back to him when he does wrong and exemplifies jihad. When he does wrong, it tells him it's not OK and to repent, knowing that there is a day of reckoning.

The Content Soul

The third type of nafs is the highest level, called nafs al-mutma’innah, or the soul that is content and happy with what God has given him. The Quran says, “O (thou) soul, in (complete) rest and satisfaction! Come back thou to thy Lord,- well pleased (thyself), and well-pleasing unto Him! Enter thou, then, among My devotees! Yea, enter thou My Heaven!” This soul is the most purified of wrongdoing and is the most worthy of Allah's acceptance. With this soul an individual is not envious or jealous and has no animosity in his heart towards others, but instead is at peace.

These are the other three. The first I mentioned above.

Which one do you think Iblees was nurturing?

And did he switch when his pride became pushed because he would no longer be viceregent on earth after Adam (pbuh) would be placed there?

Scimi
Reply

popsthebuilder
10-27-2015, 07:30 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
It's a question of logic.

The Jews lost their Torah when they were capture by Nebuchadnezzar and taken as slaves to babylon. Over that 70 year period, all trace of their religion was taken so no Torahs were in existence.

The Torah was re-written from memory and has been undergoing revisions right up til the canon process - so I ask, how can a work attributed to the Prophet Enoch who apparently lived almost 4000 years before that time, still exist in the 3rd century BCE?

Of course its known as an apocryphal work, meaning it is of unknown authorship, doubtful authenticity, or spurious, not to be considered in the canon.

That's why it isn't there - they got that right at least.

Scimi
The book of Enoch would have had to have come from before the Torah in some form. He would have been before Moses, right?
Reply

popsthebuilder
10-27-2015, 07:43 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
There are 4 types of nafs I know about from study.

The Evil Soul

The Quran describes three different types of nafs. The first one is the lowest kind, called nafs al-ammara, or the evil soul. The Quran says, “Lo! the (human) soul enjoineth unto evil, save that whereon my Lord hath mercy.” This nafs pushes the individual to do wrong and pursue worldly desires such as wealth, fame, power, physical gratification and exploitation of others.

The Self-Reproaching Soul

The second type of nafs described in the Quran is called nafs al-lawwamah, or the self-reproaching soul. The Quran says “And I do call to witness the self-reproaching spirit.“ As an individual struggles to replace his wrongdoings with good actions, the reproachful soul takes over. This soul is an individual’s conscience talking back to him when he does wrong and exemplifies jihad. When he does wrong, it tells him it's not OK and to repent, knowing that there is a day of reckoning.

The Content Soul

The third type of nafs is the highest level, called nafs al-mutma’innah, or the soul that is content and happy with what God has given him. The Quran says, “O (thou) soul, in (complete) rest and satisfaction! Come back thou to thy Lord,- well pleased (thyself), and well-pleasing unto Him! Enter thou, then, among My devotees! Yea, enter thou My Heaven!” This soul is the most purified of wrongdoing and is the most worthy of Allah's acceptance. With this soul an individual is not envious or jealous and has no animosity in his heart towards others, but instead is at peace.

These are the other three. The first I mentioned above.

Which one do you think Iblees was nurturing?

And did he switch when his pride became pushed because he would no longer be viceregent on earth after Adam (pbuh) would be placed there?

Scimi
He would have been of pride and greed and evil from start to finish. In my opinion.
Reply

Insaanah
10-27-2015, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Our noble prophet muhammad dabiq
:salam:

Apologies, but was does dabiq mean? I have never heard this word before. I have heard Muhammad Mustafa :saws:, or just Muhammad :saws:, as we have been commanded to say :saws: after his name, but I have never heard the term Muhammad dabiq. Please could you clarify what this means?

:jz:
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Abz2000
10-27-2015, 02:53 PM
maybe it's that unrefined xt9 predictive text, i tried nabi and it gave me nazi lol
pbuh came out alright but maybe it's coz the phone is accustomed to it.
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-27-2015, 09:15 PM
Yep .... typing in haste, instead of the customary salutation, this came up
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-27-2015, 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Four: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

4. Provide a little more information on the origin of the Jinn?
According to verse 15:27, Allah created the Jinn from smokeless fire, somewhere in the skies. The first Jinn was named Marij, and his wife was Marija. They had many children who divided into clans and sub-clans. One son was named Azazil, whose father was Khablith, and his mother Nablith. The entire Jinn species inhabited the earth and were generally corrupt, except for Azazil. So much did he worship that the angels grew amazed, and said to Allah: “O Lord, raise him up to heaven, so that we might learn from him and follow his good example.” So Allah brought Azazil up to live among the angels in the first heaven, and he became their arbitrator in their matters. When the Jinn on earth had exceeded all limits, Allah sent Azazil with a army of angels and fought the unbelievers, vanquishing them. Again, Azazil prayed so eagerly that he was raised up to the seventh heaven where he prayed for a further 70 000 years until Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was brought into existence.

Unconfirmed traditions say that in this time, Azazil was raised to the station of Ridwan - the guardian of Paradise, - which he held for 1000 years. Once he read an inscription on the gates of paradise: “There is a servant among the most highly favoured servants of the Almighty Lord. For a long time he will be obedient and serve his Lord well; there will come a day, when he will oppose his Lord and will be cursed that rebellious one 1000 years, not knowing not that it was to be himself. It was only when he refused to prostrate before Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) that his hidden arrogance and pride was exposed.
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-27-2015, 09:33 PM
Day Five: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

5. Why did Azazil refuse to bow down to Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎)?
Reply

Scimitar
10-27-2015, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
I heard a syrian historian named Ahmed Daoud mentioned Hinn and Binn and he said that his reference was from Al Massoudi.

And Allahu a'alam
Follow that trail - where did Al Masoudi get it from? And who did the guy he get it from - get it from? recurring. Is the "source" a sound source? Al Masoudi is not the source - he's the carrier. Understand?

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
10-27-2015, 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Five: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

5. Why did Azazil refuse to bow down to Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎)?
Why do you call him Azazil? After the Jews? Muslims say his name was Iblees before shaytaan..

Anyway to answer your question.

Iblees refused to bow down and he gave the reason that he was made of fire and Adam was made of earth - and that fire destroys earth therefore he is superior. His pride and ego manifested and he couldn't humble himself before Allah even though Allah afforded him the opportunity to repent - Iblees did not, and so, he was cast out.

His pride mainfested in his ego - his jealousy of knowing a human who is made of earth will now take his crown as viceregent of earth, was a defining factor in his egotistical desires.

Scimi
Reply

brotherabdullah
10-28-2015, 12:54 AM
As Salaam Alaikum,
Azazil, otherwise known as Iblis, had much Jealously at the fact that Allah (swt) had created one of his creations through clay molded from mud and that Allah (swt) breathed a soul into him whereas Iblis was created from fire and didnt feel special. Also, when Iblis would pass by the clay of Adam peace be upon him, he would be scared of what Adam will come to be.
His arrogance and jealously didnt allow him to bow down to Sayyadina Adam and felt he was more superior.
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-28-2015, 08:15 AM
Assalaam alaikum.
The Qur'an is filled with stories of the past Prophets. Why?

So that we learn lessons from the examples of the past generations, by adhering to their good lessons and not falling into their errors.

Allah mentions:
"And remember our slaves Ibrahim, Ishaaq and Ya'qoob, owners of strength and religious understanding". (38:45)

Imam Ibn al Qayyim says:

"Strength: in administering the truth.

So Allah praised them with the correct understanding of the truth and the strength to implement and administer it."
(Al jawaab al Kaafi).

In contrast to them, we are a generation of more that a billion Muslims, with little or no understanding of the truth and no STRENGTH to administer the law of Allah.

We are ignorant of the fact that if we tried, Allah will help. Instead we find 1000 reasons not to try.

Besides not trying, we even turnish the image of those who try.
How ignorant we have become! And how weak!

Oh Allah grant us understanding and strength! 💥
Reply

shafat10
10-28-2015, 09:42 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Assalaam alaikum.
The Qur'an is filled with stories of the past Prophets. Why?

So that we learn lessons from the examples of the past generations, by adhering to their good lessons and not falling into their errors.

Allah mentions:
"And remember our slaves Ibrahim, Ishaaq and Ya'qoob, owners of strength and religious understanding". (38:45)

Imam Ibn al Qayyim says:

"Strength: in administering the truth.

So Allah praised them with the correct understanding of the truth and the strength to implement and administer it."
(Al jawaab al Kaafi).

In contrast to them, we are a generation of more that a billion Muslims, with little or no understanding of the truth and no STRENGTH to administer the law of Allah.

We are ignorant of the fact that if we tried, Allah will help. Instead we find 1000 reasons not to try.

Besides not trying, we even turnish the image of those who try.
How ignorant we have become! And how weak!

Oh Allah grant us understanding and strength! 💥
Very well said!
Reply

shafat10
10-28-2015, 09:54 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Follow that trail - where did Al Masoudi get it from? And who did the guy he get it from - get it from? recurring. Is the "source" a sound source? Al Masoudi is not the source - he's the carrier. Understand?

Scimi
Most of the scholars of today's world and even of the past relied on Sanad, as in, chain of narrations.
It's extremely difficult to do research on Matn, as in, the actual text and in the later generations most of the researchers, I repeat, almost all of them relied on Sanad - Isnaad.
If the chain of narrations were correct and from truthful people and didn't have contradictions to established Quranic knowledge, they were classified Sahih. In today's world, it's almost impossible to do research on Matn, and hence most Muhaddis of our generation and even of the past relied on Sanad.
You're asking how does he know, his dad knew, grand dad knew and so on, indirectly trying to go to the original text, aka, Matn.
This is almost impossible in today's world and most of the Sahih Hadith are classified Sahih from the perspective of Sanad. Very few researches were done from the perspective of Matn.
So yah, if the chain of narrations is correct, if the Sanad is correct, it is acceptable :).
Reply

Lotfijen
10-28-2015, 09:54 AM
bismillah arrahman arrahim :
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."(30)

And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."(31)


They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."(32)




He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed."(33)



And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.(34)



And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."(35)



But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."(36)



Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.(37)



We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.(38)


Quran : Surat Al Baqara 2:30-2:38

================================================== ======================================
I think it's clear in these verses that the earth was already created before the coming of Adam (alayhi assalam) on it. that's one.

************************************************** *************************************************

bismillah arrahman arrahim

"Say [O Prophet]: "I am but a mortal man like all of you. It has been revealed unto me that your God is the One and Only God. Hence, whoever looks forward [with hope and awe] to meeting his Sustainer [on Judgment Day], let him do righteous deeds, and let him not ascribe unto anyone or anything a share in the worship due to his Sustainer!"(110)

Surat AlKahf 18:110

================================================== =======================================
here also it's clear that our beloved prophet (salla Allah alayhi wa sallam) is a Human Being, not a light, not a spirit, nothing but a human being like everyone else, chosen by Allah Subhanahu wa taala to reveil His message. And in no way he is the purpose of the creation.. anything of these thoughts is missing logic, islamic knowledge , even simple reasonning. islam isn't about myths, it's about what Allah Tells us and Orders us.

Reply

Mehnaaz
10-28-2015, 11:17 AM
Alhamdulillah, this is a wonderful initiative. I feel so privileged to be here. I am still taking baby steps and I am astounded at the amount of knowledge that is out there for those who want to learn, to know, to partake in it.

I've gone through the thread - and the constant back and forth, the rebuttals actually help in broadening our horizons.

Thank you indeed! :)

Mehnaaz
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-28-2015, 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Five: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

5. Why did Azazil refuse to bow down to Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎)?
All of creation stayed in prostration for a period of 40 days before Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎), and in all this time, Azazil refused. Because of this, his name was immediately changed to Iblees. Being the gatekeeper of paradise and highly pious, he thought that he was more superior to even the angels who were created from light, whereas he was created from the topmost part of smokeless flame, which is the purest form of matter. Mankind was created from humble earth, how could he lower himself? He was thus expelled from the skies. (Al-Bidayah wan Nihayah of ibn Kathir Damishqi, vol. 1, page 120)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-28-2015, 07:33 PM
Day Six: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

6. For how many years were the Jinn given an opportunity to rule on earth?
Reply

Abz2000
10-28-2015, 08:08 PM
42 something maybe, God knows if the most knowledgeable prophets even knew that:

i know the most correct answer though

as many years as Allah allowed them to rule the earth, if indeed they ruled the earth.

edit:
depressing video deleted
Reply

BeTheChange
10-28-2015, 09:06 PM
Asalamualykum,

Such an interesting and beneficial thread. Alhamdulilah.

Am sorry i have not contributed before.

I have some catching up to do.
Reply

AhmedGassama
10-28-2015, 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Follow that trail - where did Al Masoudi get it from? And who did the guy he get it from - get it from? recurring. Is the "source" a sound source? Al Masoudi is not the source - he's the carrier. Understand?

Scimi
It's Al Tha'alibi, he is from Tunisia

I didn't found any source of his talking, however i only found Al-Tabarani talking about it too.
That's all i found.

---------- Post Merged at 11:52 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Six: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

6. For how many years were the Jinn given an opportunity to rule on earth?
I don't know, maybe this is unknown to us.
Reply

OmAbdullah
10-30-2015, 08:03 AM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
Greetings popsthebuilder.

In Islam, we do not believe that angels revolt against God. They never tire of remembering and worshipping God and faithfully carrying out their duties. Only humans and jinn have the capacity to do this. So angels will never revolt against God. Shatyan/Iblees/the devil, is a jinn.

Also, we do not believe in the concept of ****ation. There is no concept of original sin, nor of God expecting perfection which cannot be achieved, nor of a broken relationship with God that requires reconciling, nor of ****ation requiring a saviour. Forgiveness is directly from God. Prayer is directly to God. God is the God of all, even of those who don't believe in Him.

In Islam, as Adam (peace be upon him) asked for forgiveness and was forgiven, so we too ask for Allah's forgiveness for sins we commit, as He loves for us to turn to Him in repentance, and loves forgiving. This forgiveness comes freely, just by Allah's will, when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent. Forgiveness does not require any type of sacrifice by God. Both Adam and Eve (peace be on them both) repented and were forgiven by their Merciful Lord; and indeed Adam (peace be on him) was then chosen to be the first person to receive guidance from Allah, was honoured by Allah, and is counted among all the other Prophets of Islam. While guidance and the right way has been shown to us, we, as humans, have the freedom to choose, to err, and to repent sincerely, and should we do so, we will find Allah Forgiving. For all in the posterity of Adam (peace be on him), the door of returning to the right path is always open, prior to death. And we invite you to it.

Peace.

May Allah, The Greatest, bless you for this true answer.

---------- Post Merged at 08:27 AM ----------

Originally Posted by shafat10
Most of the scholars of today's world and even of the past relied on Sanad, as in, chain of narrations.
It's extremely difficult to do research on Matn, as in, the actual text and in the later generations most of the researchers, I repeat, almost all of them relied on Sanad - Isnaad.
If the chain of narrations were correct and from truthful people and didn't have contradictions to established Quranic knowledge, they were classified Sahih. In today's world, it's almost impossible to do research on Matn, and hence most Muhaddis of our generation and even of the past relied on Sanad.
You're asking how does he know, his dad knew, grand dad knew and so on, indirectly trying to go to the original text, aka, Matn.
This is almost impossible in today's world and most of the Sahih Hadith are classified Sahih from the perspective of Sanad. Very few researches were done from the perspective of Matn.
So yah, if the chain of narrations is correct, if the Sanad is correct, it is acceptable .

In fact it is very difficult to prove that the chain of narrators is all correct and true. Today many munaafiqeen invent a false hadeeth and then connect it with Aa'yishah rAa or with Umar rAa giving it the standard of the "silsilah Dhahabiyyah" (golden chain). Matan (the contents of the hadeeth) is very helpful to know the truth of a hadeeth, to say whether it is truly the words of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. The only thing that we need is the knowledge of the Holy Qur'aan, and being Muslims, we must have its thorough knowledge. The contents of a hadeeth (matan) can be checked in the light of the Holy Qur'aan and one can easily know its authenticity.
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-30-2015, 08:47 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Six: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

6. For how many years were the Jinn given an opportunity to rule on earth?
2 000 years. (Al-Bidayah wan Nihayah of ibn Kathir Damishqi, vol. 1, page 71)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-30-2015, 09:06 AM
Day Seven: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

7. What creation did Allah decide to create, giving them an intellect and shaping them “in the best of forms” so that they could take up the vicegerency of Allah on earth, after the Jinn?
Reply

Abz2000
10-30-2015, 09:35 AM
al insaan
Reply

Scimitar
10-30-2015, 12:33 PM
Originally Posted by shafat10
Most of the scholars of today's world and even of the past relied on Sanad, as in, chain of narrations.
It's extremely difficult to do research on Matn, as in, the actual text and in the later generations most of the researchers, I repeat, almost all of them relied on Sanad - Isnaad.
If the chain of narrations were correct and from truthful people and didn't have contradictions to established Quranic knowledge, they were classified Sahih. In today's world, it's almost impossible to do research on Matn, and hence most Muhaddis of our generation and even of the past relied on Sanad.
You're asking how does he know, his dad knew, grand dad knew and so on, indirectly trying to go to the original text, aka, Matn.
This is almost impossible in today's world and most of the Sahih Hadith are classified Sahih from the perspective of Sanad. Very few researches were done from the perspective of Matn.
So yah, if the chain of narrations is correct, if the Sanad is correct, it is acceptable :).
I know what sanad is, what I am saying is that when the chain of narration is unidentified and you are relying upon the tradition of your ancestors - you could very well be going down the path of "Chinese Whispers". That - is my point.

Scimi
Reply

shafat10
10-30-2015, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
I know what sanad is, what I am saying is that when the chain of narration is unidentified and you are relying upon the tradition of your ancestors - you could very well be going down the path of "Chinese Whispers". That - is my point.

Scimi
Not "everything" is traced back from Chinese whispers either.
That's my point.
Reply

shafat10
10-30-2015, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
I know what sanad is, what I am saying is that when the chain of narration is unidentified and you are relying upon the tradition of your ancestors - you could very well be going down the path of "Chinese Whispers". That - is my point.

Scimi
If we keep suspecting everything, then that's going to be difficult eh... xD.
Reply

OmAbdullah
10-30-2015, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
^ the light would be the guidance of Allah

Ibn' Abbas reported:........

The Messenger of Allah completed 13 rak'ats of his night prayer. He then lay down and slept and snored ( and it was his habit to snore while asleep). Then Bilal came and he informed him about the prayer. He (the Prophet) then stood up for prayer and did not perform ablution, and his supplication included these words", ".........".

)I have quoted only that part of the hadeeth which is objectionable. Full hadeeth can be read in the post 58.)

It appears that among the narraters, starting from the beginning until now, there is a person who is very rude as well as fearless. He/she doesn't fear Allah and so has attributed false words to the action of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. We cannot believe that the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam slept deeply in "lay down position" and then led the Muslims in fajar prayer without ablution. The Prophets of Allah never acted against their teaching. They were the first to act upon what they taught their Ummahs.

We must remember that the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam informed us that anyone who willfully attributes false words to the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, he makes for himself place in Hell. The arrogant person has attributed wrong action to the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam thus trying to mislead many Muslims. So he/she made for him/herself a place in the Hell-Fire. He/she is also very rude saying that the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam snored and that he had the habit of snoring. I have read so many ahaadeeth, uloom-ul hadeeth and commentaries of the Holy Qur'aan but I never read such rude words about him. Also every one must know that these rude words are not part of the hadeeth therefore, their mentioning is quite useless and is for the purpose of rudeness for which the sinner shall suffer in Hell.
Reply

OmAbdullah
10-30-2015, 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Our noble prophet muhammad dabiq was not made of physical light, he was a guiding light and an embodiment of guidance. some traditions state that this light of guidance and prophethood was first transferred in his ancestors on their foreheads, and was then transferred to the lower back of the rest of his lineage.
The light of guidance started revealing to him only when he became Prophet at the age of 40 and it was in the form of the verses of the Holy Qur'aan as well as its explanation through hadeeth. That light was not attached with him in the womb of the mother. Such statements are false and fabricated.

If you (Mr. Khalid S...) have made a mistake in the name of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, writing "dabiq" with his NOBLE NAME, then it is your duty to say sorry and to write his name with the salaam properly.
Reply

OmAbdullah
10-30-2015, 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by popsthebuilder
Thanks. It still seems that the difference is the desire of the beings. The angels desire what God desires wholly under God's direction. The jinn seem to have gone against the direction of God. I understand the reason for the separation of the two. Just not sure that they came at different times or from different force. I was under the impression that all angels were of the fire of God which is somewhat synonymous with the light of God. One third of them strayed from God's path in pursuit of their own selfish desires. This clarification is very welcome. Again, please take no offence to my input. I am learning and comparing notes basically.

Only for your information:

Satan's name was Azaazeel and not Iblees. Iblees means extremely hopless person. As Satan became jealous to Adam alaihi salaam, and disobeyed Allah's Command to prostrate to Adam, Allah cursed him and he became extremely hopeless from any mercy of Allah. Therefore, his name became Iblees.

Regarding God's Unity and Uniqueness, we must be very careful to abstain from associating any partner to Allah in any sense. This is a very delicate matter because a mushrik (the one who associates a partner with Allah in any sense) shall never enter Paradise.

So we can say that God created angels from light but we should not say that angels are a part of the light of Allah. Allah is a very Unique Being separate from HIS creation.
Reply

OmAbdullah
10-30-2015, 11:34 PM
Originally Posted by shafat10
Not sure what's going on in this thread.

Well, the fact about history is, many of us believe "what we want to believe". So if there's some information that doesn't go down our throat, we say "it is wrong". That's mostly because we were brought up with one type of knowledge and we tend to follow only that, any new information that we didn't knew in the first place, makes us think it's wrong.

As far as the history of Prophets and Messengers is concerned, We only know about 25 of them as the Quran and Hadith mentions.

But our Prophet also said there were 120,000 Prophets and Messengers sent to the face of the Earth.
By name only 25 are mentioned.

So as for the rest, we can only know and learn, but surely not verify.

We as Muslims, whatever is available in the Quran and Hadith, everything in History that matches it, we agree that it's true. Anything that goes against it, we say it's wrong.
Now as far as stuff which isn't available in our texts, and neither agrees to, nor disagrees with the Quran, we say they are ambiguous. May be right, may be wrong. Because it doesn't go against the Quran, you cannot say it's wrong. And because Quran speaks nothing about it, you can't say it's 100% right.

Hence yah, to those of you who want to have certain PROOF, am sorry to say, this thread might disappoint you. Because a lot of the stories are taken from Bible too, the Old Testament and stuff, and it doesn't go against Quran, nor does it agree with, so it's ambiguous, may be right, may be wrong.
If you are the one who believes something about history with certain PROOF, then like I said, you may be disappointed with this thread.
However if you're someone who is okay with ambiguous stuff and can agree that these knowledges have no certain backed up PROOF, but may be right, may be wrong, it's something that we want to know more about, whether it is from History, from Bible, from Veda, whatever. As long as it doesn't contradict, it should be fine to many and I believe this thread is more for those type of people.

Am sorry if I have hurt anyone's feelings, but I was disappointed to see this thread turn in to a "give me proof" thread, that also of stuff which has no certain proof.

Either way, good day and I hope the OP continues his questions and gives his answers and opinions, referred from wherever he learnt them from. Whether you want to agree or not is your wish, but how about we continue this thread like usual? God bless.
Excuse me, any statement about the Prophets alaihi salaam must be true. We are all accountable and any Muslim who realizes this fact i.e. he/she has strong belief in the Accounting in the Court of Allah in the life after death, shall be careful in this thread. If the thread was about some worldly matter, then any statement taken from history books could be accepted.
Reply

OmAbdullah
10-30-2015, 11:47 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
RE: Book of Enoch (Idris AS)

The book of enoch is supposed to be an ancient religious work ascribed by tradition to Enoch, the great grandfather of Noah (Alaihis salaam).

The problem here is that the Jews were not even an idea let alone a race when Enoch lived.

And when Noah's ark settled the earth, there were no humans left except for Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives... Where is the book of Noah? :D

How did a book of a pre-flood prophet survive and yet, Noah's own revelations not survive?

It wasn't until approx 2900 year later (according to biblical timelines) between Enoch and David (father of Jews) - and there was a world flood between then too.

Moses was before David - yet Moses never spoke of any book of Enoch.

the israelites at the time of their slavery in Egypt, had all but lost their religion, and had started to worship Egyptian deities.

SO I ask - what nonsense is this regarding the Book of Enoch? its a LIE.

Scimi
The Holy Qur'aan is the witness that the Ark of Nuh alaihi salaam had his family + more Muslims other than his family. Allah said that they were the nations of the future. Insha Allah, I will post the verses and the surah's name.
Reply

OmAbdullah
10-30-2015, 11:54 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
I don't believe that the flood covered the whole earth, it has covered only Arabia.
The flood covered the whole earth, the Ark of Nuh alaihi salaam stopped it the top of Judi mountain and Allah made it a sign for the future races. That ark is seen by the people of our time. Judi mountain is in Turkey, not in Arabia.
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-31-2015, 12:34 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Seven: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

7. What creation did Allah decide to create, giving them an intellect and shaping them “in the best of forms” so that they could take up the vicegerency of Allah on earth, after the Jinn?
Human Beings, the first of whom was Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎), known as Abul Bashr (Father of Mankind). (Qur’an 2:31-37)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
10-31-2015, 12:35 AM
Day Eight: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

8. Mankind is also generally rebellious. If Allah destroys us, will He create another creation to inhabit the earth in order to continue with His vicegerency?
Reply

Celebrimbor
10-31-2015, 05:04 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Eight: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

8. Mankind is also generally rebellious. If Allah destroys us, will He create another creation to inhabit the earth in order to continue with His vicegerency?
Ermmm Yes and No

Yes because I remember an ayah when Allah states that if we are evil, He would destroy us and replace us with better people ? (Something along those lines)

No because mankind is the last of creation before the judgement day ? Donno what happens after that though lol
Reply

BlueOwl358
10-31-2015, 07:45 AM
Same answer, kinda in a mixed bag. We do know Humans are the best form of creation and we will remain until the end. If He wanted to, yes, He could replace us, but I don't think humans will get replaced. Individual nations maybe, but not the entirety of mankind. And the previous stated hadith helps with that (which actually states what would happen if we did not sin).

"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) having said: By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them." (Sahih Muslim 2749)

So we won't get destroyed and get replaced because we are rebellious. We would either continue somehow, or face Judgement day, because humans do commit sin. We know that we will survive until Judgement Day. And I know that there won't be any creations after that, at least that is what I think.

So, humans won't get replaced because we are rebellious, we would get replaced if we were sinless, which isn't the case. We will be ended eventually, but not replaced, because we are final sentient species. But, if Allah wanted to, all things are under His command.
Reply

Abz2000
10-31-2015, 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
)I have quoted only that part of the hadeeth which is objectionable. Full hadeeth can be read in the post 58.)

It appears that among the narraters, starting from the beginning until now, there is a person who is very rude as well as fearless. He/she doesn't fear Allah and so has attributed false words to the action of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. We cannot believe that the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam slept deeply in "lay down position" and then led the Muslims in fajar prayer without ablution. The Prophets of Allah never acted against their teaching. They were the first to act upon what they taught their Ummahs.

We must remember that the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam informed us that anyone who willfully attributes false words to the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, he makes for himself place in Hell. The arrogant person has attributed wrong action to the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam thus trying to mislead many Muslims. So he/she made for him/herself a place in the Hell-Fire. He/she is also very rude saying that the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam snored and that he had the habit of snoring. I have read so many ahaadeeth, uloom-ul hadeeth and commentaries of the Holy Qur'aan but I never read such rude words about him. Also every one must know that these rude words are not part of the hadeeth therefore, their mentioning is quite useless and is for the purpose of rudeness for which the sinner shall suffer in Hell.
a little late in replying - many diversions meet me on my path so i have to do some kung fu and struggle back to the straight and narrow,
JazakaAllahu khayran for pointing that out sis, i didn't even notice that part as i skimmed through though i remember stopping and turning it over my mind for ages a few years back, we know that the prophet pbuh would usually take a nap after tahajjud, even if it was short, there is no reason to believe that the prophet pbuh didn't snore, it is recorded that he (pbuh) would snore loudly when he would go into the trance of receiving revelation, the reading prayer after sleeping without ablution part, i can only perceive three possibilities, it wasn't true (there are flaws in some ahadith which have made it into the sahihain), it was true however the practice of performing ablution after nodding off wasn't yet established at the time of incidence, or that he pbuh wasn't aware that he had fallen asleep and the companions were too shy to tell him as they were uncertain of questioning him when he pbuh prayed two rakah instead of four, though he pbuh had to push them to inform him.
and Allah knows best.
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Scimitar
10-31-2015, 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by shafat10
If we keep suspecting everything, then that's going to be difficult eh... xD.
No. Its more orderly when I know what texts are unreliable, so I don't have to consider them

I follow "method"... I don't know what you follow. But whatever bro :D If you prefer chinese whispers then - that's your delusion, not mine ;)

Scimi
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Abz2000
10-31-2015, 05:00 PM
there's forcefully pushing a dubious hadith and then there's preserving it for future consideration, for instance, we see that some ahadith pertaining to the age we live in and references to others are found scattered in books from hundreds but not a thousand years ago, and some of these are totally accurate and without miss, such as the believer seeing his brother from east to west and west to east, the ability to globally communicate sound and vision without a postman involved etc, these prophecies didn't make it into the sahih for whatever reason but were preserved up until a certain time, we know it isn't sinful to keep them and we know that some have however been discarded in the memory hole out of doubt, fear of keeping apocraphy, deatroyed by the mongols or americans in baghdad.
sometimes i so wish saddam had hired a bunch of typists to make them electronic so that we could at least sift through them and try to make more sense of what is happening.
but as Allah says, sanuqri-uka falaa tansaa illa maashaaAllah.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sc...eception17.htm
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OmAbdullah
10-31-2015, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Allah created the Jinn to take over the duty of worshiping Allah and to be His vicegerent on earth. In order to achieve this, He sent an army of Jinn to subdue these other beings, which they successfully did. They were then assigned to dwell on earth and to worship Allah. For their guidance, 800 prophets were sent, but they slew them all and caused much corruption on earth. In order to restore order, Allah sent an army of angels, led by Azazil, the Jinn, to subdue them and confine them to remote islands and high mountains. Only the pious jinn were left alone. This brought an end to the rule of the Jinn on earth, but there was one pious Jinn named Azazil, who was but a child at that stage, who was uplifted to the skies. (Hidayat ke Chiragh of Maulana M. Abdur Rahman Mazhari, vol. 1, page 57)

For Muslims there are only 2 sources of the knowledge of Truth and they are more than sufficient, these are the Holy Qur'aan and the Sunnah. From these 2 sources, we know that Jinns lived on this earth before mankind and that Allah created them to worship Allah. But from where comes this long story? What is the source of knowledge with M.Abdur Rahman Mazhari?
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OmAbdullah
10-31-2015, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
Okay, but i didn't get why God can destroy the other nations in the world just because of the sins of the tribe of Nuh (as)
Allah had given the Prophet Nuh alaihi salaam very long life and he had tried to guide his nation for 950 years. But only a small number of people had accepted the guidance. From his own family 2 persons i.e. his wife and a son also were among the rejecters of Islam, so they were also drowned in the flood. His son was drowned in front of his eyes. See this story in surah Hud verses 25--48. Note how was his kafir son drowned in front of his eyes. Also read the commentary of verse 48. It is very deep. Allah said in verse 40 that very few people had accepted the faith (of Islam) with him while in the verse 48 Allah said salaam and blessings on Nuh alaihi salaam and on the nations that were with him, along with that Allah also mentioned the kafir nations and warning of the painful punishment for them. This was at the time when the wrath of Allah stopped and Nuh alaihi salam was advised to leave the Ark on the Judi mountain. Please read this beautiful commentary which is so deep and full of wisdom.
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Abz2000
10-31-2015, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
For Muslims there are only 2 sources of the knowledge of Truth and they are more than sufficient, these are the Holy Qur'aan and the Sunnah. From these 2 sources, we know that Jinns lived on this earth before mankind and that Allah created them to worship Allah. But from where comes this long story? What is the source of knowledge with M.Abdur Rahman Mazhari?
sister i totally agree with you on your position on baseless conjecture, there have been incidences in the past too that some scholars have fallen into that trap, we must however know that Allah Himself tell us in the Quran to seek truth, use our intellects and adopt it as the way, the Quran doesn't need to tell you that tony blair exists, you find that out from your intellect, i bet you've never seen him face to face though ;)

we use the Quran and sunnah as a guiding principle in our lives and even with some of the sahih graded hadith there are fabrications which must be looked at and weighed based upon gained knowledge and intellect, the prophet pbuh was never shy to adopt a good practice even if it was entrusted in the hands of people who opposed him, we can see this from the fast of ashura, the fact that he pbuh adopted the stoning for adultery rule from the torah, and many other practices.
Allah has given you an intellect, people who limit themselves to only what knowledge they perceive as their owndeprive themselves of moving forward because All knowledge is from Allah, we should seek the truth and accept it.
again, regarding some of the conjecture concerning the origin and time of earthly rule of jinn, personally i agree that it appears baseless but it's not haram to preserve such information. i would not throw it in the bin in case it can be used to understand future findings but i definitely would neither confirm nor deny it unless more solid evidence was available to support or contradict it.
the knowledge either came from a source and the origins are lost, or it's fabricated, Allah knows best.
the Quran and Sunnah however are the begining of knowledge, and a person's knowledge cannot be even fractionally completed on the day they die, though the reading of the Quran and hadith can.
the reason why we accept the Quran as truth is because our knowledge and intelligence compel us to, otherwise we'd be following anything we found our parents upon.
the way i see it, the more people do halal (not nazi mk ultra style) research and make new findings, the more they'll come to the truth, and if i was afraid of them coming to the truth, it would mean that i am not upon the truth.
below is the story of a man who came to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was neither killed nor crucified, he explains the delving he did and the ancient documents he found, then analysed, the obstacles which confronted him, and the controversy he caused, however, being an open minded scholar, he couldn't accept standing upon falsehood just because everyone else around him thought it was unfashionable to think critically and speak the truth:
the screenshots uploaded in an incorrect order but the page numbers are at the tops of the pages, they are regarding documents, most likely prophecies abot the second coming:

http://s248.photobucket.com/user/abz...rs%20-%20intro
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shafat10
10-31-2015, 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
No. Its more orderly when I know what texts are unreliable, so I don't have to consider them

I follow "method"... I don't know what you follow. But whatever bro :D If you prefer chinese whispers then - that's your delusion, not mine ;)

Scimi
I can't go back in time to prove that the stories about them 120,000 Prophets are real as we are hearing them xD but as long as it doesn't contradict the Quran and Hadith, there's no problem in knowing them too ;), because we don't have that information, it can only be taken from previous religious scriptures or what history says. And because you can't go back in time to prove them, you either have to agree, disagree, or just let it stay ambiguous. I prefer it to remain ambiguous :v, but learning something ambiguous isn't wrong either eh xD.
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shafat10
10-31-2015, 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
The flood covered the whole earth, the Ark of Nuh alaihi salaam stopped it the top of Judi mountain and Allah made it a sign for the future races. That ark is seen by the people of our time. Judi mountain is in Turkey, not in Arabia.
Sorry sister but archaeological evidences disagree with it.
Even the Quran doesn't say that the whole Earth was submerged.
The Quran says that the Tribe of Nuh PBUH was submerged, if you read in context, it doesn't speak about the whole world, but just he and his people.
Secondly, the Quran doesn't give a time frame of when it happened.
Archaeological evidences say it took place around 21st to 22nd century BC.
Scientists tell us that the 3rd Dynasty of Babylon and 11th Dynasty of Egypt was uninterrupted during the 21st and 22nd century BC.
So scientifically it's not possible that Nuh PBUH's flood occurred in the whole world, neither does the Quran speak about a worldly flood. Reading in context makes this point clear.
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shafat10
10-31-2015, 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Excuse me, any statement about the Prophets alaihi salaam must be true. We are all accountable and any Muslim who realizes this fact i.e. he/she has strong belief in the Accounting in the Court of Allah in the life after death, shall be careful in this thread. If the thread was about some worldly matter, then any statement taken from history books could be accepted.
As far as the 120,000 Prophets and Messengers are concerned. You have no information regarding them in Quran and Hadith.
If something disagrees with Quran, we say it's wrong. If something agrees, we say it's right.
If something neither agrees nor disagrees, we say it's ambiguous, neither right, neither wrong.
As far as the remaining Prophets are concerned, we say it's ambiguous, so we are not saying it's true, neither are we saying it's false. It's something we are just knowing and tagging as "ambiguous".
Hope this helps :).
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Abz2000
10-31-2015, 09:38 PM
no wonder we fell behind after the iniitial caliphates, the cia seems to be doing the research and gaining the advantage on the material sphere by connecting dots and understanding the psyche and struggles of past peoples including the history of Islam, more detailed than many of us have the ability to acquire, and the events in the future, then hiding it from the masses who appear bored of scripture and content with fox news. does anyone think that the final messenger was the only one receiving details of the end times? if not, do they think details of future events were revealed only for the people of the ancient times, or for us living in this time too?





i almost fell of my bed laughing at the following article from an anarchist site, God knows the intelligence and background knowledge of his target audience which appears to be atheist anarchist people who have very distant Christian roots:
it just shows how far people can go when they lose track.

So after manufacturing the bible, God, the Devil, murdering Jesus and his followers, the romans and jews funded the king Muhammad, who just like King James translated the Torah into his own language. They called it the Koran.
The CIA and British Secret Service fund Al Qaeda today, not only to murder christians and atheists, but also to control those regions for their valuable resources. The Torah being a sort of Manifest Destiny ideology sold to dictators, to “conquer” (control) “their” people (as traitors), just as the Book of the Dead, 10 commandments, Bible, Coran, Capitalist Constitutions pretending to be democratic and Communist Manifesto did. Then the romans and jews created the Imperial Roman Catholic Church and Vatican. The Vatican was built on top of a hill full of human bones, where millions of anarchists like Jesus, had been crucified in order to perpetuate hierarchism and the current dominant form of Hierarchism, being Roman Imperialism.
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popsthebuilder
10-31-2015, 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Only for your information:

Satan's name was Azaazeel and not Iblees. Iblees means extremely hopless person. As Satan became jealous to Adam alaihi salaam, and disobeyed Allah's Command to prostrate to Adam, Allah cursed him and he became extremely hopeless from any mercy of Allah. Therefore, his name became Iblees.

Regarding God's Unity and Uniqueness, we must be very careful to abstain from associating any partner to Allah in any sense. This is a very delicate matter because a mushrik (the one who associates a partner with Allah in any sense) shall never enter Paradise.

So we can say that God created angels from light but we should not say that angels are a part of the light of Allah. Allah is a very Unique Being separate from HIS creation.
I understand that we are not to associate partners or equals to God. That isn't logical anyway. God has many names, as does satan. I can see why one would say that evil and it's forms are not of God. But I feel that angels, and pretty much all existence is made by God, and as such, is connected to it in some way. This in no way assumes partners with GOD, as all things are subsidiary to, and under GOD.

Names seem to be divisive.

Peace.
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Khalid Saifullah
10-31-2015, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Eight: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

8. Mankind is also generally rebellious. If Allah destroys us, will He create another creation to inhabit the earth in order to continue with His vicegerency?
No. The coming of the Last Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم‎) heralds the end of time. After all the major portents of the Last Day will come to pass, this entire universe will be destroyed and be substituted for another. This world is for doing deeds, and the other world will be to reap the reward or the punishment thereof. (Qur’an 21:104)
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Khalid Saifullah
10-31-2015, 11:24 PM
Day Nine: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

9. Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was the first Rasul (Messenger) of Allah on earth. He wasn’t only a Nabi (a person who upholds the message of the previous prophets, and is not given an independent scripture), as some opine. Which verse in the Qur’an substantiates this?
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AhmedGassama
10-31-2015, 11:51 PM
Who told you that it's in Turkey ? their mountain is named Ararat and not Al Judi, because if you say this you will be following the Bible and not the Quran.

And who even said that Al Judi is a mountain ?

There is nothing in the Quran that can indicate your sayings, as for the boat that was found in Turkey, it could be a trick from the government of Turkey so it can attract more tourists.
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Abz2000
11-01-2015, 12:29 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Nine: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

9. Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was the first Rasul (Messenger) of Allah on earth. He wasn’t only a Nabi (a person who upholds the message of the previous prophets, and is not given an independent scripture), as some opine. Which verse in the Qur’an substantiates this?
i don't perceive how Adam pbuh could have received scripture since from what i gather, reading and writing wasn't really a priority of the time.
nabi means "news bearer" or "prophet" (one who is given news of future events and outcomes and prophecies to the people),
and rasul means "messenger" or "courier of a message" or "one who is sent"
many scholars have tried to understand the difference but have usually given different explanations, some have said they don't know, there appears to be a difference though since Allah says "nabiyyan wa rasoolaa".
i can't fathom who Adam would have been sent to.
Allah knows best, hope someone can answer or we can bounce ideas off each other, if you join the discussion we can try and work it out then if we can't answer - you can tell us inshaAllah :)

ok, now i need you to clarfy what you perceive to be the difference brother Khaalid - the sword of God.
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OmAbdullah
11-01-2015, 03:44 AM
Originally Posted by shafat10
I don't usually refer to links, but what I would write in words, I have taken from a video that helped me comprehend it.

Most of the scholars today agree that the "whole world" wasn't flooded. Even scientific evidence proves that the whole world wasn't flooded at the time of Nuh PBUH.

Here's an explanation of it:

How would you refute these then?
There are two different things: 1. the world, 2. human habitation.

From the Holy Qur'aan it is clearly understood that the whole of the mankind had to face the wrath. Before the wrath came, Allah had informed Nuh alaihi salaam about the coming of the wrath and had ordered him to make a ship/boat from wooden plates and nails with the guidance of Allah. A specific tanoor (oven made of mud and used for cooking bread) was appointed as a sign for the start of the wrath which was a terrible flood or water storm. The Prophet Nuh alaihi salaam was ordered to start riding in the boat when he saw water bubbling from the tanoor. He had to take all believers in to the boat as well as pairs of animals.

He had a big nation which included the whole of human habitation. Today we can see that Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam is a Prophet for all human beings in the whole world till the last day of this world. Just like this Nuh alaihi salaam was a Prophet for all of the mankind of that time. Of course, the human population of that time was not as vast as it is today, but there was a full nation which lived in one part of the world. Nuh alaihi salaam was the first Prophet who had to preach to an astray nation, after Adam alaihi salaam. After Adam alaihi salaam people slowly and slowly went away from Islam. They believed in the existence of Allah but they started associating partners with Allah and worshipped idols. Nuh alaihi salaam called them to the faith of oneness of God but only a few people became Muslims during 950 years of attempts of preaching. Finally Nuh alaihi salaam prayed to Allah to kill them. You can see his du'aa in surah Nuh. Then only the Muslims from his nation were saved from the flood. They also included the Muslim members of his family.

This is very certain from the Holy Quraan that NO OTHER PEOPLE EXISTED ON THE EARTH. THE WHOLE POPULATION OF THE WORLD HAS COME DOWN FROM THOSE MUSLIMS WHO WERE SAVED IN THE ARK DUE TO THEIR OBEDIENCE TO ALLAH AND ALLAH"S PROPHET NUH ALAIHI SALAAM. See the English translation of the following verses:

11. Lo! when the waters rose, We carried you upon the ship

12. That We might make it a remembrance for you, and the keen ear (person) may (hear and) understand it.

These are the verses 11 and 12 of surah Al-Haaqah.Here Allah Almighty is addressing us saying that Allah carried us upon the ship. Its commentary says that for us it is a reminder that we are here now only because our ancestors were Muslims and thus were saved in that terrible flood-- the wrath of Allah. So we must be obedient Muslims to protect ourselves from the punishment of Allah. Also in surah Hud verse 48 Allah reminded us that those people with Nuh alaihi salaam in the ship were going to become vast human population of this time. The Muslims among us were blessed by Allah even at the time of Nuh alaihi salaam while the kaafirs among us were warned of the punishment at the same time.

Now please don't say that other dynasties existed at the time of that flood.
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BlueOwl358
11-01-2015, 03:46 AM
I believe that Nabi means Prophet and Rasul means Messenger, at least that is what I have read. I may be wrong though. Hazrat Mohammad (pbuh) was stated to be a Messenger and the last Prophet. A Prophet includes all Prophets, but not all Prophets are Messengers. Is that right or something? I have no idea as to the answer. Bukhari 4516 calls Noah (as) as the first Apostle, so that may help. Yes, can we get some clarification.
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OmAbdullah
11-01-2015, 05:05 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
According to verse 15:27, Allah created the Jinn from smokeless fire, somewhere in the skies. The first Jinn was named Marij, and his wife was Marija. They had many children who divided into clans and sub-clans. One son was named Azazil, whose father was Khablith, and his mother Nablith. The entire Jinn species inhabited the earth and were generally corrupt, except for Azazil. So much did he worship that the angels grew amazed, and said to Allah: “O Lord, raise him up to heaven, so that we might learn from him and follow his good example.” So Allah brought Azazil up to live among the angels in the first heaven, and he became their arbitrator in their matters. When the Jinn on earth had exceeded all limits, Allah sent Azazil with a army of angels and fought the unbelievers, vanquishing them. Again, Azazil prayed so eagerly that he was raised up to the seventh heaven where he prayed for a further 70 000 years until Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was brought into existence.

Unconfirmed traditions say that in this time, Azazil was raised to the station of Ridwan - the guardian of Paradise, - which he held for 1000 years. Once he read an inscription on the gates of paradise: “There is a servant among the most highly favoured servants of the Almighty Lord. For a long time he will be obedient and serve his Lord well; there will come a day, when he will oppose his Lord and will be cursed that rebellious one 1000 years, not knowing not that it was to be himself. It was only when he refused to prostrate before Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) that his hidden arrogance and pride was exposed.
Sad to say that you give long stories without any evidence of truth.
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OmAbdullah
11-01-2015, 05:22 AM
Originally Posted by Lotfijen
bismillah arrahman arrahim :
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."(30)




And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."(31)




They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."(32)






He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed."(33)





And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.(34)





And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."(35)





But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."(36)





Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.(37)





We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.(38)




Quran : Surat Al Baqara 2:30-2:38

================================================== ======================================
I think it's clear in these verses that the earth was already created before the coming of Adam (alayhi assalam) on it. that's one.

************************************************** *************************************************

bismillah arrahman arrahim

"Say [O Prophet]: "I am but a mortal man like all of you. It has been revealed unto me that your God is the One and Only God. Hence, whoever looks forward [with hope and awe] to meeting his Sustainer [on Judgment Day], let him do righteous deeds, and let him not ascribe unto anyone or anything a share in the worship due to his Sustainer!"(110)

Surat AlKahf 18:110

================================================== =======================================
here also it's clear that our beloved prophet (salla Allah alayhi wa sallam) is a Human Being, not a light, not a spirit, nothing but a human being like everyone else, chosen by Allah Subhanahu wa taala to reveil His message. And in no way he is the purpose of the creation.. anything of these thoughts is missing logic, islamic knowledge , even simple reasonning. islam isn't about myths, it's about what Allah Tells us and Orders us.

May Allah bless you for presenting the TRUTH.
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OmAbdullah
11-01-2015, 05:56 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
All of creation stayed in prostration for a period of 40 days before Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎), and in all this time, Azazil refused. Because of this, his name was immediately changed to Iblees. Being the gatekeeper of paradise and highly pious, he thought that he was more superior to even the angels who were created from light, whereas he was created from the topmost part of smokeless flame, which is the purest form of matter. Mankind was created from humble earth, how could he lower himself? He was thus expelled from the skies. (Al-Bidayah wan Nihayah of ibn Kathir Damishqi, vol. 1, page 120)
=All of creation stayed in prostration for a period of 40 days before Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎)

Iblees--- Being the gatekeeper of paradise,

~topmost part of smokeless flame, which is the purest form of matter,

Mankind was created from humble earth, how could he lower himself?
Give evidence for your statement. I don't believe that it is truly the statement of Ibn. Kathir. He would not invent the words that all creation stayed in prostration to Adam alaihi salaam for 40 day, nor that Iblees was the gatekeeper of Paradise.

Your question "how could he lower himself" is in a way as if Iblees was justified in his action of rejecting Allah's Command!!!

Who said that the topmost part of a flame is the purest form of matter?

I wonder that this book of Ibn Kathir is now changed into something to mislead people and make them respectful to Satan!!!

I also wonder that your questions, instead of focusing on the qualities and actions of Anbiyaa alaihim salaam, are mostly about Jinn and Iblees, why???
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OmAbdullah
11-01-2015, 06:11 AM
Originally Posted by shafat10
I can't go back in time to prove that the stories about them 120,000 Prophets are real as we are hearing them xD but as long as it doesn't contradict the Quran and Hadith, there's no problem in knowing them too ;), because we don't have that information, it can only be taken from previous religious scriptures or what history says. And because you can't go back in time to prove them, you either have to agree, disagree, or just let it stay ambiguous. I prefer it to remain ambiguous :v, but learning something ambiguous isn't wrong either eh xD.
Why don't you learn it directly from the Holy Qur'aan? You can go to the previous scriptures to learn ambiguous stories of the prophets alaihim salaam, but you cannot go to the Holy Qur'aan to learn true stories of them, very srange!!!
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OmAbdullah
11-01-2015, 06:30 AM
Originally Posted by shafat10
As far as the 120,000 Prophets and Messengers are concerned. You have no information regarding them in Quran and Hadith.
If something disagrees with Quran, we say it's wrong. If something agrees, we say it's right.
If something neither agrees nor disagrees, we say it's ambiguous, neither right, neither wrong.
As far as the remaining Prophets are concerned, we say it's ambiguous, so we are not saying it's true, neither are we saying
it's false. It's something we are just knowing and tagging as "ambiguous".
Hope this helps :).

Whatever Allah has given in the Holy Quraan, is sufficient for our guidance for the matters of this world as well as for protecting us from Hell. We must try to remain in the same frame work and try to achieve our purpose which is prosparity here and in the hereafter. If Allah didn't give us details about 120.000 prophets, then why should we search about them? Did you complete your duties for the present Qur'aan that you are in need for more details? I wonder how can I try to fulfil my duties for the present Qur'aan, so I don't search for more, nor do I need it.
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BlueOwl358
11-01-2015, 08:04 AM
Ok, can someone explan what this second trail of conversion is that is following the main thread? Something about history and religion or something.
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shafat10
11-01-2015, 10:20 AM
Sister nbegam,
Well I haven't done a deep research myself on the topic of whether the flood drowned the whole world or not, but I did read the researches of scholars on this topic and I agree more with those scholars who say that the whole world wasn't flooded, just the few people of Nuh PBUH.
Moreover, the Bible says the whole world was flooded and this is listed as some of the top mistakes in Biblical scriptures according to modern science, hence I agree with those scholars who read in context and with tafaseers that they explain that the whole world wasn't flooded but just the tribe of Nuh PBUH.

The Quran doesn't say "the whole world was flooded", I got to say this again, in context, the Quran doesn't talk about a worldly flood. In context it just talks about the people of Nuh.
So either way, it's up to you, I don't want to argue on this.

And regarding the 120,000 Prophets, see, you said Quran doesn't speak about it so you don't need to know them. Sister, the Quran also doesn't speak about 2+2=4. So does that mean you don't need 2+2=4 in your life? Lol.
The Quran is not a book of Science, SCIENCE, it's a book of signs, SIGNS. If the Quran had every knowledge, then it would be as big as the Burj Khalifa, which is not the case.
Please don't misunderstand, the Quran isn't a book of everything, it's a book of Signs, it is a book of Ayats, to know more about how to lead our daily life, the basic principles are given in the Hadith.
But the Quran also says to gain knowledge. This knowledge is both religious knowledge and worldly knowledge too. Please note!
So the part of Prophets not mentioned is pretty much like worldly knowledge. Same like how you study F=ma in Physics. It helps you lead your life, similarly this knowledge gives you some past experiences of Prophets which is "helpful" if you keep in mind.
Just because Allah didn't write in Quran doesn't mean you cannot learn it for "worldly knowledge".
I already said, F=ma is also not written in Quran. Does that mean using this formula is Haram? Lol.
Hence like I said, something agrees with Quran, we say it's true, something disagrees, we say it's false. Something neither agrees nor disagrees, we say it's ambiguous :). And this knowledge which neither matches, nor contradicts, I tag it as "ambiguous" and there's nothing wrong if you learn about them, just like there's nothing wrong in learning F=ma.

And you asked if I have all knowledge of Quran to move to more researches, definitely not! I don't, even my next 25 generations won't. You cannot expect a person to understand everything of the Quran and Hadith even if he lives for 100 years. The most we can do is research and learn, which we do, and which the scholars of the past and present did and do, and scholars of the future will too Inshallah.
Hope this helps.
Reply

Abz2000
11-01-2015, 12:21 PM
the term messenger appears to denote a distance of a people from God's kingdom - where He sends an envoy,
the term nabi appears to denote a bearer of tidings within the kingdom of God, either running the show or a teacher/advisor to the king and/or people without being primarily at odds, some took on both roles one after another, if such were the case, Adam pbuh would be a Nabi.

i have in the past searched "nabi vs rasul" "nabi rasul difference" and gotten widely varying opinions of some of the more renowned scholars, however i just found this interesting chart and notice that the messengers were normally sent to nations considered as stranger/rebellious/transgressing/renegade kingdoms.
most who fall under nabi appear to be with "friendlies"

chart is built in this link, you'll find it under the heading: Prophets and messengers

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop...ngers_in_Islam

and Allah knows best.
Reply

shafat10
11-01-2015, 11:55 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
the term messenger appears to denote a distance of a people from God's kingdom - where He sends an envoy,
the term nabi appears to denote a bearer of tidings within the kingdom of God, either running the show or a teacher/advisor to the king and/or people without being primarily at odds, some took on both roles one after another, if such were the case, Adam pbuh would be a Nabi.

i have in the past searched "nabi vs rasul" "nabi rasul difference" and gotten widely varying opinions of some of the more renowned scholars, however i just found this interesting chart and notice that the messengers were normally sent to nations considered as stranger/rebellious/transgressing/renegade kingdoms.
most who fall under nabi appear to be with "friendlies"

chart is built in this link, you'll find it under the heading: Prophets and messengers

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop...ngers_in_Islam

and Allah knows best.
A Prophet (Nabi) is someone sent by God (selected by God) to guide the people.
A Messenger (Rasool) is also the same, but he has a message, a risala, a guidance, a booklet - book.
So a Nabi is not a Rasool, but a Rasool is a Nabi.
Every Messenger is a Prophet, but every Prophet isn't a Messenger.

Hope this helps :).
Reply

shafat10
11-02-2015, 12:02 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
i don't perceive how Adam pbuh could have received scripture since from what i gather, reading and writing wasn't really a priority of the time.
nabi means "news bearer" or "prophet" (one who is given news of future events and outcomes and prophecies to the people),
and rasul means "messenger" or "courier of a message" or "one who is sent"
many scholars have tried to understand the difference but have usually given different explanations, some have said they don't know, there appears to be a difference though since Allah says "nabiyyan wa rasoolaa".
i can't fathom who Adam would have been sent to.
Allah knows best, hope someone can answer or we can bounce ideas off each other, if you join the discussion we can try and work it out then if we can't answer - you can tell us inshaAllah :)

ok, now i need you to clarfy what you perceive to be the difference brother Khaalid - the sword of God.
It's not mandatory that one has to know how to write and read in order to receive a message. Our Prophet PBUH was illiterate, wasn't he? So didn't any revelation come to him?

A Messenger of God has a message, a risala, hence they are called Rasool.
But Prophets don't have a risala, they preach the message that came before them. No specific revelation is sent to them.

Hence a Messenger is also a Prophet, but a Prophet is not a Messenger.

Hope this helps :).
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-02-2015, 12:04 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Nine: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

9. Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was the first Rasul (Messenger) of Allah on earth. He wasn’t only a Nabi (a person who upholds the message of the previous prophets, and is not given an independent scripture), as some opine. Which verse in the Qur’an substantiates this?
“Verily Allah had chosen Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of ‘Imran over the creation.” (Qur’an 3:33)
Reply

shafat10
11-02-2015, 12:05 AM
Originally Posted by BlueOwl358
I believe that Nabi means Prophet and Rasul means Messenger, at least that is what I have read. I may be wrong though. Hazrat Mohammad (pbuh) was stated to be a Messenger and the last Prophet. A Prophet includes all Prophets, but not all Prophets are Messengers. Is that right or something? I have no idea as to the answer. Bukhari 4516 calls Noah (as) as the first Apostle, so that may help. Yes, can we get some clarification.
Yah, every Messenger is a Prophet but every Prophet is not a Messenger.

A Messenger is someone to whom a message has been given, a revelation, a risala, hence the name Rasool.
On the other hand, a Prophet is someone who preaches the previous messages sent to the community. No new message or revelation, or risala is given to him.

Hence every Messenger is a Prophet but every Prophet is not a Messenger, hope this helps.
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-02-2015, 12:05 AM
Day Ten: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

10. Why did Allah name the first human “Adam”?
Reply

Insaanah
11-02-2015, 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Nine: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

9. Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was the first Rasul (Messenger) of Allah on earth. He wasn’t only a Nabi (a person who upholds the message of the previous prophets, and is not given an independent scripture), as some opine. Which verse in the Qur’an substantiates this?
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
“Verily Allah had chosen Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of ‘Imran over the creation.” (Qur’an 3:33)
:salam: respected Sheikh,

Please could you elaborate on how this verse shows that Adam alayhissalaam was a rasool?

Ma'aariful Qur'an, Taf'heemul Qur'an, and Tafseer Ibn Kathir all mention that the purpose of the verse is as an introduction to the the discourse that follows about Isa alayhissalaam. In addition, Tafsir ibn Kathir says:

"Allah states that He has chosen these households over the people of the earth. For instance, Allah chose Adam, created him with His Hand and blew life into him. Allah commanded the angels to prostrate before Adam, taught him the names of everything and allowed him to dwell in Paradise, but then sent him down from it out of His wisdom. Allah chose Nuh and made him the first Messenger to the people of the earth, when the people worshipped idols and associated others with Allah in worship. "

In addition, there is a hadeeth in Saheeh al Bukhari, on how people will ask the prophets and messengers (peace be on them) for intercession on the Day of Judgement. First they will ask Adam alayhissalaam.

"...Then Adam will remember his sin and feel ashamed thereof. He will say, 'Go to Noah, for he was the first Messenger that Allah sent to the inhabitants of the earth.'

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 3
Arabic reference : Book 65, Hadith 4476

Another version says:

"....On that Adam will reply, 'My Lord is so angry as He has never been before and will never be in the future; (besides), He forbade me (to eat from) the tree, but I disobeyed (Him), (I am worried about) myself! Myself! Go to somebody else; go to Noah.' They will go to Noah and say; 'O Noah! You are the first of the messengers of Allah to the people of the earth, and Allah named you a thankful slave. Don't you see in what a (miserable) state we are and to what condition we have reached? Will you not intercede for us with your Lord?..."

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3340
In-book reference : Book 60, Hadith 15
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 55, Hadith 556
(deprecated numbering scheme)

Above hadeeth translations are parts of longer ahadeeth.

If you meant 10:47, which says: "And for every nation is a messenger. So when their messenger comes, it will be judged between them in justice, and they will not be wronged"

Some say that Adam alayhissalaam wasn't set to an ummah, qawm or nation, as there wasn't one yet for him to be sent to, and they are normally sent when people are steeped in disbelief, and that all people were one group upon monotheism. Then, when polytheism came about, Allah sent Nooh alyahissalaam to them as a rasool.

Others say the story of the two sons of Adam (alayhissalaam) show that they had a sharee'ah they were supposed to follow, and therefore Adam alayhissalaam was a rasool for his children.

Would it be fair to say that there is a difference of opinion on this question, and that the opinion that he was a prophet but not a messenger could also be correct?

:jz:
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-02-2015, 02:53 PM
Excellent analysis

Masha Allâh

These are not matters of Aqeedah, so there can be difference of opinion on many issues. In fact, in some places I haven't even pointed out the various difference of opinion for fear of making it too academic for the lay person.

I think the issue comes in on the suhuf of adam as.... can a nabi receive it, or only a Rasul?

I really love the academic spirit which some of these questions have elicited

Jazakallah
Reply

Abz2000
11-02-2015, 03:00 PM
sister insaanah's post has helped shed more light upon the topc, Jazaakallahu khairan everybody who's trying and adding to the discussion.

Originally Posted by shafat10
It's not mandatory that one has to know how to write and read in order to receive a message. Our Prophet PBUH was illiterate, wasn't he? So didn't any revelation come to him?

yes, revelation came to the final messenger (pbuh) orally, however was destined to make book form, dhaalika al kitaabu laa rayba feehi.
what i meant was that what came to Adam (pbuh) and the first offspring was guidance as wahi (the fact that they made sacrifices to Allah indicates that they were working according to some instructions) and signs in creation (the crow digging the earth) but not scripture or laws set in stone, it appears that they started off being tested on their deeds and initiative based on their good judgement while assisted with a few clues, it was only after they messed up real bad that messengers came.

Originally Posted by shafat10
Yah, every Messenger is a Prophet but every Prophet is not a Messenger.

A Messenger is someone to whom a message has been given, a revelation, a risala, hence the name Rasool.
On the other hand, a Prophet is someone who preaches the previous messages sent to the community. No new message or revelation, or risala is given to him.

Hence every Messenger is a Prophet but every Prophet is not a Messenger, hope this helps.
Which would return to the suggestion that nabis follow something already in place and confirm a shariah that the people are already upon, only settling differences but making no major changes, and rasuls either bring about a revolution in a rebellious nation or make drastic reforms.
if the hadith of Nuh (pbuh) being the first messenger has been remembered and recorded correctly, Adam (pbuh) would be a Nabi only required to conform and work within the fitrah, though he pbuh didn't have to follow any Messengers before him,
i'm just musing and pondering and Allah (the Most High, Perfect and Wise) knows best.
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-02-2015, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Ten: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

10. Why did Allah name the first human “Adam”?
Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was given this name due to his wheaty-brownish complexion. In this world, he was also known as Abul Bashr (Father of Mankind) and Safiyullah (The Chosen one of Allah). When he returns to paradise for the second time, he will be known as Abu Muhammad. (Al-Bidayah wan Nihayah of ibn Kathir, vol. 1, page 97)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-02-2015, 10:02 PM
Day Eleven: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

11. Allah mentions in the Qur’an that mankind has been created with dirt or soil. How did it happen?
Reply

Abz2000
11-02-2015, 10:42 PM
in paradise or on earth?
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-03-2015, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Eleven: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

11. Allah mentions in the Qur’an that mankind has been created with dirt or soil. How did it happen?
When Allah decided to create Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) after being disappointed at the Jinn, He first fashioned his lifeless mould from soil that the Angel of Death had collected from different parts of the earth. Thus, Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) possessed all the qualities and colours of the soil he was created from. His progeny too, will have different qualities depending on the material he was created from – from mountains or valleys, red or black, tough or soft. This soil was then mixed with water and left to dry for a period of 40 years on a road between Makkah and Ta‘if (Arabia) until it became clinging mud, and made a ringing sound. This mixture was again left to dry for another 40 years until it became black, smooth and smelly. Mankind was created from this mixture. (Qur’an 15:26-33)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-03-2015, 10:42 PM
Day Twelve: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

12. When this mould of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was being left to mature, did it have any visitors? Also, when did the soul enter the body and where?
Reply

Abz2000
11-03-2015, 11:44 PM
God knows where the mold was but i gathered that the visitor was Iblis who saw Adams hollowness and realized that he was weak, so he said something along the lines of: you have been chosen over me though i am bettrr, if i am given power over you, i will lead you astray, and if you are given power over me, i will disobey you.
however, he didn't know of the evolving mindset of Adam and it's ability to get wiser and more intelligent through every stage.
and Allah knows best.
shaytaan is in for a big surprise.
Reply

saif-uddin
11-04-2015, 04:32 AM
M.I.A

The Qur'an indicates Jinns existed before Human beings explicitly.
Reply

saif-uddin
11-04-2015, 04:34 AM
Whether the Jinns roamed the Earth before the creation of Adam عليه السلام‎ or not is irrelevant
Reply

saif-uddin
11-04-2015, 04:35 AM
Create beneficial threads please brothers,

Let's not argue about and dwell on matters which have no relevance to us
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-04-2015, 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Twelve: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

12. When this mould of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was being left to mature, did it have any visitors? Also, when did the soul enter the body and where?
What a strange question, but the answer is “Yes.” Out of curiosity, the angels and jinn ascending and descending from the heavens would inspect the mould. Iblees, in particular, discovered the hollowness of the body and exclaimed: “This creation is very weak. If I’m given influence over you, I will mislead you.” Finally, when the mould had the capacity to transform in to a human, Allah then placed a heart within it and blew a soul in to it. This took place on a Friday, after which the body was transported back to paradise, or an “interim paradise” according to some scholars. (Tafseer Baidawi of ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar al-Baidawi, vol. 1, page 254)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-04-2015, 11:26 PM
Day Thirteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

13. When the soul was placed in his body, Allah ordered all of creation to prostrate to Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) as a mark of respect. Initially, the angels were surprised that Allah would place mankind on earth as they had witnessed the Jinn create havoc thereon, but Allah told them: “I know what you know not.” The angels also soon came to realise the Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) had knowledge, and although they were super worshippers, they lacked in this vital regard. After this, everyone besides Iblees, prostrated. He abused his logic as opposed to obeying Allah’s command. Why did he do it?
Reply

Abz2000
11-04-2015, 11:46 PM
because he was a racist bigot who thought that he was somehow better due to physical composition rather than closeness to God.

(one queation brother, if you don't mind please answer, if not - don't: are you into exorcism and taweez?)
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-05-2015, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
sister i totally agree with you on your position on baseless conjecture, there have been incidences in the past too that some scholars have fallen into that trap, we must however know that Allah Himself tell us in the Quran to seek truth, use our intellects and adopt it as the way, the Quran doesn't need to tell you that tony blair exists, you find that out from your intellect, i bet you've never seen him face to face though ;)

we use the Quran and sunnah as a guiding principle in our lives and even with some of the sahih graded hadith there are fabrications which must be looked at and weighed based upon gained knowledge and intellect, the prophet pbuh was never shy to adopt a good practice even if it was entrusted in the hands of people who opposed him, we can see this from the fast of ashura, the fact that he pbuh adopted the stoning for adultery rule from the torah, and many other practices.
Allah has given you an intellect, people who limit themselves to only what knowledge they perceive as their owndeprive themselves of moving forward because All knowledge is from Allah, we should seek the truth and accept it.
again, regarding some of the conjecture concerning the origin and time of earthly rule of jinn, personally i agree that it appears baseless but it's not haram to preserve such information. i would not throw it in the bin in case it can be used to understand future findings but i definitely would neither confirm nor deny it unless more solid evidence was available to support or contradict it.
the knowledge either came from a source and the origins are lost, or it's fabricated, Allah knows best.
the Quran and Sunnah however are the begining of knowledge, and a person's knowledge cannot be even fractionally completed on the day they die, though the reading of the Quran and hadith can.
the reason why we accept the Quran as truth is because our knowledge and intelligence compel us to, otherwise we'd be following anything we found our parents upon.
the way i see it, the more people do halal (not nazi mk ultra style) research and make new findings, the more they'll come to the truth, and if i was afraid of them coming to the truth, it would mean that i am not upon the truth.
below is the story of a man who came to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was neither killed nor crucified, he explains the delving he did and the ancient documents he found, then analysed, the obstacles which confronted him, and the controversy he caused, however, being an open minded scholar, he couldn't accept standing upon falsehood just because everyone else around him thought it was unfashionable to think critically and speak the truth:
the screenshots uploaded in an incorrect order but the page numbers are at the tops of the pages, they are regarding documents, most likely prophecies abot the second coming:

http://s248.photobucket.com/user/abz...rs%20-%20intro
Please don't say that the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam took some or many practices from the Tawrah, this is false accusation on Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. Also you must know that "stoning to death" Law in case of married adulterer, came down to Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam from Allah directly. The Jews by that time had changed this Law to another punishment. If they would find a criminal of high status, they would ignore his crime. But in case of a low status sinner, they would make him sit on a donkey with his face made black and turned backwards so that people could see him. Please read the tafseer of surah Al-Ma'idah verse 43 for details. I think it is this aayah behind which is a long story of such a case which was somehow brought to our Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam for Judgement. He decided stoning for it and asked their scolars, who were denying the law of stoning in their religion. As our Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam knew that originally Allah had given them also the law of stoning to death but their scholars were liars and were denying the fact. So the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam told them to take oath and say the truth. Then only one of the scholars said the truth that they had the law of stoning but they had changed it.

Also in fasting on the 10th of Muharram, the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam didn't follow the Jews. Rather he got all knowledge, Commands and guidance from Allah alone. It is the munaafiqeen who make such false statements, and it is your and our duty to be careful from them them
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-05-2015, 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
Who told you that it's in Turkey ? their mountain is named Ararat and not Al Judi, because if you say this you will be following the Bible and not the Quran.

And who even said that Al Judi is a mountain ?

There is nothing in the Quran that can indicate your sayings, as for the boat that was found in Turkey, it could be a trick from the government of Turkey so it can attract more tourists.
Surah Hud verse 44, its English translation is :

44. And it was said, "O earth, swallow your water,and O sky, withhold [your rain]." And the water subsided, and the matterwas accomplished, and the ship came to rest on the [mountain of] Judiyy. And itwas said, "Away with the wrongdoing people."

All readers should read this verse 44 of surah Hud in which Allah the Greatest informed us about the ark of Nuh alaihi salaam stopping at Judi mountain. The tafseer gives details about its location that it is at a central point of Iraq, Turkey and ....... (Syria probably ). I have to revise its location but it is related to Turkey. Right now I am getting late for my prayer.

I am surprised how can a person be so brave in telling lies. You must remember that lie has no legs to stand upon. Your statement is a proof that you know nothing from Quraan about the story of Prophet Nuh alaihi salaam, but you are saying to me that I am taking the things from Bible!!!
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-05-2015, 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Thirteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

13. When the soul was placed in his body, Allah ordered all of creation to prostrate to Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) as a mark of respect. Initially, the angels were surprised that Allah would place mankind on earth as they had witnessed the Jinn create havoc thereon, but Allah told them: “I know what you know not.” The angels also soon came to realise the Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) had knowledge, and although they were super worshippers, they lacked in this vital regard. After this, everyone besides Iblees, prostrated. He abused his logic as opposed to obeying Allah’s command. Why did he do it?
Iblees desired the position of being Allah’s vicegerent on earth, so out of pride, he refused to prostrate. He made an excuse that he was superior to Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) because he was made of smokeless, searing fire, and the latter was made of dried clay comprising of altered black mud. He also came to realizes that is was the knowledge of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) that made him eligible for vicegerency and superior to his acts of ostentatious piety. (Qur’an 17:61-65)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-05-2015, 10:23 PM
Day Fourteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

14. When Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎)’s soul was being inserted into him, he sneezed when it reached his nose. On this, he said: “Alhamdulillah.” How did Allah reply to this?
Reply

Abz2000
11-06-2015, 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Fourteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

14. When Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎)’s soul was being inserted into him, he sneezed when it reached his nose. On this, he said: “Alhamdulillah.” How did Allah reply to this?
YarhamukAllah
Reply

Abz2000
11-06-2015, 12:45 AM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Please don't say that the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam took some or many practices from the Tawrah, this is false accusation on Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. Also you must know that "stoning to death" Law in case of married adulterer, came down to Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam from Allah directly. The Jews by that time had changed this Law to another punishment. If they would find a criminal of high status, they would ignore his crime. But in case of a low status sinner, they would make him sit on a donkey with his face made black and turned backwards so that people could see him. Please read the tafseer of surah Al-Ma'idah verse 43 for details. I think it is this aayah behind which is a long story of such a case which was somehow brought to our Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam for Judgement. He decided stoning for it and asked their scolars, who were denying the law of stoning in their religion. As our Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam knew that originally Allah had given them also the law of stoning to death but their scholars were liars and were denying the fact. So the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam told them to take oath and say the truth. Then only one of the scholars said the truth that they had the law of stoning but they had changed it.

Also in fasting on the 10th of Muharram, the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam didn't follow the Jews. Rather he got all knowledge, Commands and guidance from Allah alone. It is the munaafiqeen who make such false statements, and it is your and our duty to be careful from them them
The hadith is in Sahih Muslim and attributed to al baraa bin azib although it sounds dodgy, the case where abdullah ibn salam got them to move their hand when reading the torah makes more sense and it appears to be corroborated by witnesses while the above sounds third hand, also it wasn't the habit of the Prophet pbuh to grab them off the streets, he'd normally turn his face away a few times first.
I'm linking it here and you can do a word search for "revive" if you want to:
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religiou...im/017-smt.php

Here's the one from ibn abbas regarding the attempt to falsify and abdullah ibn salam (ex-jewish scholar)'s rebuttal:

Book 017, Number 4211:Abdullah b. 'Umar reported that a Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) who had committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to the Jews and said: What do you find in Torah for one who commits adultery? They said: We darken their faces and make them ride on the donkey with their faces turned to the opposite direction (and their backs touching each other), and then they are taken round (the city).
He said: Bring Torah if you are truthful. They brought it and recited it until when they came to the verse pertaining to stoning, the person who was reading placed his hand on the verse pertaining to stoning, and read (only that which was) between his hands and what was subsequent to that.
Abdullah b. Salim who was at that time with the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Command him (the reciter) to lift his hand. He lifted it and there was, underneath that, the verse pertaining to stoning. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) pronounced judgment about both of them and they were stoned. Abdullah b. 'Umar said: I was one of those who stoned them, and I saw him (the Jew) protecting her (the Jewess) with his body.

Regarding the 10th Muharram it is clear:

Ibn 'Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: "The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) came to Madinah and saw the Jews fasting on the day of*'Ashura'.
He said, 'What is this?'
They said, 'This is a righteous day, it is the day when Allah saved the Children of Israel from their enemies, so Musa fasted on this day.'
He said,*'We have more right to Musa than you,'
so he fasted on that day and commanded [the Muslims] to fast on that day."
[Reported by al-Bukhari, 1865]

"This is a righteous day" – in a report narrated by Muslim, [the Jews said:] "This is a great day, on which Allah saved Musa and his people, and drowned Pharaoh and his people."
"Musa fasted on this day" – a report narrated by Muslim adds: " … in thanksgiving to Allah, so we fast on this day."
According to a report narrated by al-Bukhari: " … so we fast on this day to venerate it."
A version narrated by*ImamAhmad adds: "This is the day on which the Ark settled on Mount Judi, so Nuh fasted this day in thanksgiving," and "commanded [the Muslims] to fast on that day"
– according to another report also narrated by al-Bukhari: "He said to his Companions:*'You have more right to Musa than they do, so fast on that day.'*"
you sound so angry.
Reply

AhmedGassama
11-06-2015, 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Surah Hud verse 44, its English translation is :

44. And it was said, "O earth, swallow your water,and O sky, withhold [your rain]." And the water subsided, and the matterwas accomplished, and the ship came to rest on the [mountain of] Judiyy. And itwas said, "Away with the wrongdoing people."

All readers should read this verse 44 of surah Hud in which Allah the Greatest informed us about the ark of Nuh alaihi salaam stopping at Judi mountain. The tafseer gives details about its location that it is at a central point of Iraq, Turkey and ....... (Syria probably ). I have to revise its location but it is related to Turkey. Right now I am getting late for my prayer.

I am surprised how can a person be so brave in telling lies. You must remember that lie has no legs to stand upon. Your statement is a proof that you know nothing from Quraan about the story of Prophet Nuh alaihi salaam, but you are saying to me that I am taking the things from Bible!!!
I have many proofs from the sunna which say that Al-Judi is located in Arabia, i have them in the arabic language, i didn't find them in English.

حدثنا ابن وكيع، قال: ثنا ابن نـمير، عن ورقاء، عن ابن أبـي نـجيح، عن مـجاهد: { وَاسْتَوَتْ علـى الـجُودِيِّ } قال: جبل بـالـجزيرة، تشامخت الـجبـال من الغرق، وتواضع هو لله فلـم يغرق، فأرسيت علـيه.


حدثنـي الـمثنى، قال: ثنا أبو حذيفة، قال: ثنا شبل، عن ابن أبـي نـجيح، عن مـجاهد: { وَاسْتَوَتْ علـى الـجُودِيّ } قال: الـجوديّ جبل بـالـجزيرة، تشامخت الـجبـال يومئذ من الغرق وتطاولت، وتواضع هو لله فلـم يغرق، وأُرسيت سفـينة نوح علـيه.


حدثنـي الـحارث، قال: ثنا عبد العزيز، قال: ثنا سفـيان: { وَاسْتَوَتْ علـى الـجُودِيّ } قال: جبل بـالـجزيرةشمخت الـجبـال وتواضع حين أرادت أن ترفأ علـيه سفـينة نوح.


حدثنا بشر، قال: ثنا يزيد، قال: ثنا سعيد، عن قتادة: { وَاسْتَوَتْ علـى الـجُودِيّ } أبقاها الله لنا بوادي أرض الـجزيرة عبرة وآية

If you still think that Al-Judi is the mountain Ararat which was found in Turkey, well then, here i can tell you that you are really following the Bible and not the Sunna of our prophet, here is why :

"But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind blow over the earth, and the waters subsided; the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained, and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end of a hundred and fifty days the waters had abated; and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest upon the mountains of Ararat." (Genesis 8:1-4)


Please sister, when you disagree with someone don't accuse him to be a liar.
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-06-2015, 10:57 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
I have many proofs from the sunna which say that Al-Judi is located in Arabia, i have them in the arabic language, i didn't find them in English.

حدثنا ابن وكيع، قال: ثنا ابن نـمير، عن ورقاء، عن ابن أبـي نـجيح، عن مـجاهد: { وَاسْتَوَتْ علـى الـجُودِيِّ } قال: جبل بـالـجزيرة، تشامخت الـجبـال من الغرق، وتواضع هو لله فلـم يغرق، فأرسيت علـيه.


حدثنـي الـمثنى، قال: ثنا أبو حذيفة، قال: ثنا شبل، عن ابن أبـي نـجيح، عن مـجاهد: { وَاسْتَوَتْ علـى الـجُودِيّ } قال: الـجوديّ جبل بـالـجزيرة، تشامخت الـجبـال يومئذ من الغرق وتطاولت، وتواضع هو لله فلـم يغرق، وأُرسيت سفـينة نوح علـيه.


حدثنـي الـحارث، قال: ثنا عبد العزيز، قال: ثنا سفـيان: { وَاسْتَوَتْ علـى الـجُودِيّ } قال: جبل بـالـجزيرةشمخت الـجبـال وتواضع حين أرادت أن ترفأ علـيه سفـينة نوح.


حدثنا بشر، قال: ثنا يزيد، قال: ثنا سعيد، عن قتادة: { وَاسْتَوَتْ علـى الـجُودِيّ } أبقاها الله لنا بوادي أرض الـجزيرة عبرة وآية

If you still think that Al-Judi is the mountain Ararat which was found in Turkey, well then, here i can tell you that you are really following the Bible and not the Sunna of our prophet, here is why :

"But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind blow over the earth, and the waters subsided; the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained, and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end of a hundred and fifty days the waters had abated; and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest upon the mountains of Ararat." (Genesis 8:1-4)


Please sister, when you disagree with someone don't accuse him to be a liar.
please brother, don't accuse someone to be following Bible or taking the information from Bible when you and every reader can clearly see that the someone is a strict follower of the Holy Qur'aan.

The location of the mountain Judi is not a great problem. It is only a matter of geography. I have read about it in the Tafseer, you can find it in geography or in the tafseer. Insha-Allah I will try to post the note from the tafseer directly. BUT how can you say that it is not a mountain. You say it because you didn't read the story of Nuh alaihi salaam in the Holy Quraan. The flood wrath of Allah had drowned the mountains even trees on top of the mountains. When the transgressor nation was killed by the wrath, Allah ordered the earth and heaven to stop pouring out water and that the earth must start absorbing the water. As a result of this, slowly and slowly the water level came down and the Ark stopped at Judi mountain. You didn't accept this statement of the Holy Qur'aan and accused me to be unaware of the Quraan and bringing statements from Bible. This is a very bad and false accusation.
Reply

popsthebuilder
11-06-2015, 11:07 PM
I can't help but notice that the stories in the Torah and Qur'an are very similar. Why does there seem to be so much anger over this? It is utterly unifying under God. No disrespect. I'm just curious.
Thanks.
Peace.
All praise is to the One God.
Reply

AhmedGassama
11-06-2015, 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
BUT how can you say that it is not a mountain. You say it because you didn't read the story of Nuh alaihi salaam in the Holy Quraan. The flood wrath of Allah had drowned the mountains even trees on top of the mountains. When the transgressor nation was killed by the wrath, Allah ordered the earth and heaven to stop pouring out water and that the earth must start absorbing the water. As a result of this, slowly and slowly the water level came down and the Ark stopped at Judi mountain. You didn't accept this statement of the Holy Qur'aan and accused me to be unaware of the Quraan and bringing statements from Bible. This is a very bad and false accusation.
Yes, maybe i was wrong when i said it could not be a mountain.
Anyhow i said that because of this hadith
حدثنا بشر، قال: ثنا يزيد، قال: ثنا سعيد، عن قتادة: { وَاسْتَوَتْ علـى الـجُودِيّ } أبقاها الله لنا بوادي أرض الـجزيرة عبرة وآية

And Allahu aa'lam :)
Reply

AhmedGassama
11-06-2015, 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by popsthebuilder
I can't help but notice that the stories in the Torah and Qur'an are very similar. Why does there seem to be so much anger over this? It is utterly unifying under God. No disrespect. I'm just curious.
Thanks.
Peace.
All praise is to the One God.
Don't worry, there is no anger.
We can differ and debate about it but still respect one another, our opinions can differ but not our hearts :)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-07-2015, 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Fourteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

14. When Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎)’s soul was being inserted into him, he sneezed when it reached his nose. On this, he said: “Alhamdulillah.” How did Allah reply to this?
“Yarhamukallah” (May Allah have mercy on you). Till today, everyone follows the same formula when sneezing. The first command to Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) thereafter was to go to a group of angels nearby, and offer salaam to them, to which they replied: “Wa ‘Alaikas Salaam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatuhu.” This also became the greeting of mankind thereafter. (Sahih of Imam Muslim, no. 854)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-07-2015, 12:14 AM
Day Fifteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

15. From among the angels, who prostrated first?
Reply

Abz2000
11-07-2015, 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Fifteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

15. From among the angels, who prostrated first?
The angel that was the first to prostrate.
Reply

Abz2000
11-07-2015, 12:46 AM
Originally Posted by popsthebuilder
I can't help but notice that the stories in the Torah and Qur'an are very similar. Why does there seem to be so much anger over this? It is utterly unifying under God. No disrespect. I'm just curious.
Thanks.
Peace.
All praise is to the One God.
The anger may due to ignorance of the fact that many of the early Islamic historians had no qualms about resorting to researching the previous scriptures when they found a mention and sought more details, among the most notable is Ibn Kathir.
They were well aware of the command of Allah to ask the people of the dhikr if they were uncertain and their gearts were not sealed from the truth that lies scattered around (in this context dhikr was torah).

Appears the cia have been doing some homework - notice the three dudes and pieces.


Check out Quran Chapter 18 the cave: verses 16-18 and ezekiel 4:4-6 to see how clarifications, bones, flesh and maps come together, and how they diverge, sometimes the latter confirming, building upon, or replacing the former.
Reply

Scimitar
11-07-2015, 03:10 AM
this thread is weird... still waiting for references to so called sources.

And I don't think it matters to me which angel prostrated where and when.

Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
11-07-2015, 03:45 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
this thread is weird... still waiting for references to so called sources.

And I don't think it matters to me which angel prostrated where and when.

Scimi
A small article i've just read due to the amount of emphasis we've had on israiliyyaat and one accusing another of narrating from the bible and another claiming "no it's not it's from ibn kathir" lol. The article has some statements regarding the topic by ibn kathir himself, since he was a historian and appears to have disliked to omit any similar or contradicting references regarding any given topic he did clarify his dissonance in certain situations:

Al-Hafiz ibn Kathir has himself stated in the commentary*on verse 50 from*Surah al-Kahf, after mentioning opinions concerning*Iblis*and his name and which tribe he is from:
There are many narrations that have been reported from the*Salaf*concerning this, and the majority of them are from the*Isra’iliyyat*which are reported so that they may be examined, and Allah knows best what is the true condition of many of them. Amongst them is that which we can affirm with certainty that it is falsehood, due to its contradicting our sources, and the Qur’an suffices us from the reports of the preceding (nations), because hardly any of them is free from distortion, subtraction, or addition, and because many of them are forgeries. This is because they do not have amongst them the precise*Huffaz who eliminate from their narrations the distortions of exaggerators and the forgeries of the falsifiers, like the Imams and scholars, the noble and pious, the righteous and distinguished ones, from the verifying, master scholars and great*Huffaz*that this Ummah possesses who recorded the*Hadiths*and verified them, and clarified the*Sahih*and*Hasan*from the weak, the rejected and fabricated. They identified the fabricators, the liars, and the unknown narrators, and the other various classes of narrators.
All of this was to protect the Station of the Seal of the Messengers and the Chief of Mankind (صلى الله عليه وسلم), so that falsehood not be attributed to him, or that something that is not from him should be reported from him, so may Allah be pleased with them and may He please them, and may he may make the Gardens of*al-Firdaws*their abode. And truly He has done so.

At the end of his commentary on*verse 102 of*Surah al-Baqarah, he stated:
There are narrations concerning the story of Harut and Marut from a group of the*tabi’in, such as Mujahid, as-Suddi, al-Hasan al-Basri, Qatadah, Abu al-‘Aliyah, az-Zuhri, ar-Rabi’ ibn Anas, Muqatil ibn Hayyan, and others, and many of the scholars of tafsir, from the early ones and the later ones, mentioned these stories.
In their details, they are dependent upon the reports of the Children of Isra’il, for there is not a single authentic,*marfu’ hadith*with a connected chain going back to the Truthful, Believed One who is guarded from error, the one who does not speak based on desire, concerning this. The apparent meaning of the Qur’an leaves the mention of the story in general form without going into great depths and without any exaggeration, so we believe in what has been mentioned in the Qur’an as Allah (تعالى) intended it, and Allah is most knowledgeable concerning the reality of the affair.

He stated at the beginning of*Surah Qaf:It has been narrated from some of the*salaf*that they said,*“Qaf*is a mountain that surrounds the whole earth, and it is called Mount Qaf!”
*And it is as if this, and Allah knows best, is from the superstitions of the Children of Isra’il that some of the people took from them, because of their considering it to be permissible to narrate from them that which is not affirmed nor rejected. I think that this and its likes are from the forgery of some of the*Zanadiqah amongst them who deceive the people concerning the matter of their religion, just as hadiths have been fabricated upon the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) in this Ummah – despite the great status of its scholars,*Huffaz, and Imams – even though it has not been such a long time.

So how about the nation of*Bani Isra’il, what with the great time that has passed, the lack of precise*Huffaz*amongst them, their drinking alcoholic drinks, their scholars twisting the words from their places and changing Allah’s Books and Verses.

The Legislator only permitted narrating from them in his statement,*‘Relate from the Children of Isra’il, and there is no sin in that,’*concerning that which the intellect can conceive, but as for what the intellects find to be impossible, and it is deemed falsehood, and it is fairly obvious that it is a forgery – then it is not included in that.

In the commentary*of verses 41-44 of*Surah an-Naml, afterning mentioning a long narration from ibn ‘Abbas concerning the story of the Queen of Sheba, which he characterized as “munkar, gharib jiddan*(rejected, extremely strange),” he stated:
What is most likely concerning the likes of these reports is that they are taken from the People of the Book, from what is found in their scrolls, such as the narrations of Ka’b and Wahb, may Allah be kind with them concerning the strange, outlandish, and fanciful reports that they reported to this*ummah*from the Children of Isra’il, some of which occurred and some of which did not, and some of which were distorted or changed or abrogated.
Allah (سبحانه) has sufficed us from that with something which is more correct than it and better, clearer, and more beneficial. And to Allah belongs the Praise and the Grace.

https://islamicsciences.wordpress.co...-shakirs-view/
The author later goes on to absolve ibn kathir of the criticism of Shaykh Ahmad Shakir with the following observation:

[3]*It seems, and Allah knows best, that al-Hafiz ibn Kathir mentioned these narrations so that they could be known and recognized and because they have been quoted in the books of*Tafsirbefore him so he wished to encompass the work of his predecessors. Likewise the mere fact that he mentioned these narrations in his Tafsir does not mean that he relied on them as the explanation of the meanings of the Qur’an, just as he did not intend that weak*hadiths*be relied on as the explanation of its meanings, yet he chose to quote all*hadiths*relevant to every topic that came up, irrespective of their level of authenticity. So what Shaykh Ahmad Shakir has said here cannot be agreed with completely.

However, one must agree that while the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) permitted narration of*Isra’iliyat,*it is not fitting to mention these stories or weak hadiths in books of*Tafsir*directed to the common Muslims, as they will not have the foundational knowledge to distinguish between the correct and the incorrect, and because of the confusion and misunderstandings it would create for them, although there may be benefits in it for the scholar or the capable student of knowledge.

We see, for example, that ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Amr is one of those who reported that the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) permitted the study of*Isra’iliyat.*On the day of Yarmuk, he obtained two full loads of books of*Ahl al-Kitab. So, he clearly he understood that it is permissible to study their books.
It should be kept in mind, however, that our primary focus should be study of the Qur’an and the Sunnah as shall be mentioned in the statement of ibn ‘Abbas shortly. Such was, in fact, the case with ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Amr. He used to recite the Qur’an completely every seven nights, and according to the testimony of Abu Hurayrah himself, he knew more*hadiths*than even Abu Hurayrah! Clearly, there is a difference between someone of that level of scholarship reading the Books of Ahl al-Kitab and a layman.
Without doubt, the*Tafsir*of Imam ibn Kathir is a scholarly work addressed to a knowledgeable audience, so Imam ibn Kathir, may Allah reward him for his tremendous work, is free of blame in that regard. And Allah knows best.
You will find some of this criticism of drunken false prophesying in the bible itself:

7And these also stagger from wine and reel from beer:
Priests and prophets stagger from beer and are befuddled with wine; they reel from beer,they stagger when seeing visions,they stumble when rendering decisions.
8All the tables are covered with vomit and there is not a spot without filth.

9“Who is it he is trying to teach? To whom is he explaining his message?
To children weaned from their milk,to those just taken from the breast?
10For it is: Do this, do that,a rule for this, a rule for thata*;a little here, a little there.”
11Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people,
12to whom he said,“This is the resting place, let the weary rest”;and, “This is the place of repose”—but they would not listen.
13So then, the word of the*Lord*to them will become: Do this, do that,a rule for this, a rule for that;a little here, a little there—so that as they go they will fall backward;they will be injured and snared and captured.
14Therefore hear the word of the*Lord, you scoffers who rule this people in Jerusalem.
15You boast, “We have entered into a covenant with death,with the realm of the dead we have made an agreement. When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by,it cannot touch us,for we have made a lie our refugeand falsehood*our hiding place.”
16So this is what the Sovereign*Lord*says:“See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone,a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;the one who relies on itwill never be stricken with panic.
17I will make justice the measuring lineand righteousness the plumb line;hail will sweep away your refuge, the lie,and water will overflow your hiding place.
18Your covenant with death will be annulled;your agreement with the realm of the dead will not stand.When the overwhelming scourge sweeps by,you will be beaten down by it.
19As often as it comes it will carry you away;morning after morning, by day and by night,it will sweep through.”The understanding of this messagewill bring sheer terror.
20The bed is too short to stretch out on,the blanket too narrow to wrap around you.21The*Lord*will rise up as he did at Mount Perazim,he will rouse himself as in the Valley of Gibeon—to do his work, his strange work,and perform his task, his alien task.
22Now stop your mocking,or your chains will become heavier;the Lord, the*Lord*Almighty, has told meof the destruction decreed against the whole land.
From Isaiah 28
And from Quran 2:171 confirming some of the words of wisdom in the previous quote:
171.*The parable of those who reject Faith is as if one were to shout Like a goat-herd, to things that listen to nothing but calls and cries: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they are void of wisdom.


When musing over historical documents and narrations one would do good before scornfully throwing it all aside or accepting offhand to consider the dilemma of a controversial historical document scholar by the name of michael baigent:

Yet, intrigued by this bland, outrageous, but confident letter, we kept returning to it.
“What,” we asked ourselves, “would constitute ‘incontrovertible evidence’ that Jesus survived and was living long afterwards?”
“What, in fact,” we thought, racking our brains, “would constitute incontrovertible evidence of anything in history?” Documents, we supposed, but what sort of documents would be beyond doubt?
Reply

Karl
11-07-2015, 09:32 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Introduction: http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...on-ambiya.html

Day One: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

1. Does the history of the earth start with the coming of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) on this earth?
This is a trick question as "history" is created by people. So the history of the Earth at least a part of it would be written or told of by a person. So if the first man told stories he is making the history. So the answer would be yes. History means in the time of people, information that is left from them, where as pre history is before people, on this planet that is. "The victors write the history".
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-07-2015, 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Fifteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

15. From among the angels, who prostrated first?
The Angel of the Trumpet, Sayyadina Israfeel. Allah honoured him for this by having the Qur’an inscribed on his forehead. (Qasasun Nabiyyin of ibn Kathir, page 40)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-07-2015, 08:56 PM
Day Sixteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

16. Iblees’s refusal caused his enmity towards mankind to become manifest. Knowing that the result of his pride would ultimately lead him to hellfire, he didn’t seek repentance, but instead asked Allah’s permission to mislead mankind towards the same fate by adorning the path of error for them. He wants our company inn hellfire. Was this request granted to him?
Reply

Karl
11-07-2015, 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Sixteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

16. Iblees’s refusal caused his enmity towards mankind to become manifest. Knowing that the result of his pride would ultimately lead him to hellfire, he didn’t seek repentance, but instead asked Allah’s permission to mislead mankind towards the same fate by adorning the path of error for them. He wants our company inn hellfire. Was this request granted to him?
Interesting that Satan refused. I did not think angels had free will, I thought God only gave it to mortals. So God gave some angels free will to disobey Him the "Fallen Ones". And God bargains with a lower being? I suppose this is what a lot of people can't get their head around. Why does God permit evil especially supernatural, eternal and super intelligent evil to ensnare our souls? I suppose He gave us the prophets to warn us, but that is like giving a toddler a road code before they have to cross a busy road in India. I wish God got rid of evil and just gave us paradise. But I am simple and don't get the big picture.
Reply

Abz2000
11-08-2015, 01:01 PM
The freewill of angels - if they do have freewill - appears to be much more limited than humans and jinn.
we see in the Quran that they wondered at and even questioned Allah's decision to make man khaleefah on earth yet obeyed.
One hadith/narration mentions Gabriel (as)'s efforts in attempting to prevent Pharaoh from receiving forgiveness but Allah knows best as to the authenticity.
Reply

Scimitar
11-08-2015, 02:56 PM
Angels have no free will. But they are intelligent beings and can ask questions - and they will always obey a command from God.

Didn't Jibreel Alaihis Salaam question the Prophet Muhammad pbuh in the company of his companions (RA) ? :)

Here we see two examples, the first is when the Angels asked God "will you put therein a creation that will shed blood?" - a question borne of curiosity - yet when Jibreel questioned the Prophet he questioned him not for the sake of curiosity, but to teach the companions Islam... intelligent beings, like I said.

See my point bro Karl?

Scimi
Reply

shafat10
11-08-2015, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
Interesting that Satan refused. I did not think angels had free will, I thought God only gave it to mortals. So God gave some angels free will to disobey Him the "Fallen Ones". And God bargains with a lower being? I suppose this is what a lot of people can't get their head around. Why does God permit evil especially supernatural, eternal and super intelligent evil to ensnare our souls? I suppose He gave us the prophets to warn us, but that is like giving a toddler a road code before they have to cross a busy road in India. I wish God got rid of evil and just gave us paradise. But I am simple and don't get the big picture.
Iblees wasn't an Angel. Iblees was a Jin. Aka, Satan. Satan is a Jinn. Another creation of God. And Jinns have free will like human beings, unlike Angels. Angels don't have free will, they "always" follow Allah.
And regarding why Allah didn't put people directly to Heaven and Hell, this is a very big discussion, but in short, those people going to Heaven will not object, but those people going to hell, what about them eh? They will be like "God, why am I in Hell", and God will say "because you are bad", "no, I didn't do anything bad", "nah nah you were going to do...", so you see this is illogical. God should be logical, so hence this test of life as Allah said in the Quran in Surah Mulk, chapter number 67, verse number 2, it is Allah who has created death and life to test which of you is good in deeds.
So this life is a test for the hereafter. Hope this helps.
Reply

shafat10
11-08-2015, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
The freewill of angels - if they do have freewill - appears to be much more limited than humans and jinn.
we see in the Quran that they wondered at and even questioned Allah's decision to make man khaleefah on earth yet obeyed.
One hadith/narration mentions Gabriel (as)'s efforts in attempting to prevent Pharaoh from receiving forgiveness but Allah knows best as to the authenticity.
Angels don't have free will. They always follow Allah.
This is something very basic and straightforward in Islam, why would you ever doubt that?
Reply

Abz2000
11-08-2015, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by shafat10
Angels don't have free will. They always follow Allah.
This is something very basic and straightforward in Islam, why would you ever doubt that?
I don't believe they have freewill like humans, rather that they have a nature which is an embodiment of light in contrast to darkness, my response was to the post of Karl who appeared to believe they had freewill.
The hadith, if authentic, does appear to indicate that they have a limited amount of freewill within the bounds of obedience to Allah, below you will find an attwmpt to rationalize the concept:

It was quoted on the strength of Ibn Abbas' report, that Muhammad said: 'When Allah drowned Pharaoh, the latter said: "I believe that there is no god but He in whom the Children of Israel believe." Gabriel said: "O Muhammad, I would that you saw me taking of the mire of the sea and stuffing it in his mouth, for fear that Allah's mercy should reach him."' It was said in another report that Gabriel filled Pharaoh's mouth with mud, lest he should say: 'There is no god but Allah,' and thus Allah's mercy should reach him. Others said: 'Lest Allah should show mercy on him,' (see al-Tabari's commentary on Sura Yunis 10:90-92).
Al-Razi objected to this and said: 'Is it right that Gabriel filled Pharaoh's mouth with mud, that the latter might not repent, because he was angry with him? The most probable answer is no, because in that case it would be asked, Did Allah command Pharaoh to believe, or not? If he did, then it would not be permissable for Gabriel to prevent him from repenting; rather he ought to help him repent and obey Allah in all respects. But if, on the other hand, the commandment to Pharaoh did not exist at that time, then what was said about Gabriel would be of no effect.
Also, if Gabriel prevented him from repenting, he would be approving of Pharaoh's remaining an infidel, and the approval of infidelity is infidelity. Moreover how does it fit the majesty of God to forbid Gabriel to prevent Pharaoh from believing? If you say that Gabriel did this of his own accord and not by God's injunction, your words would be annulled (or disproved) by Gabriel's statement in Sura Maryam 19:64: "We come not down, save at the commandment of they Lord"' (see al-Razi's commentary on Sura Yunis 10:90-92).

Al-Razi's argument was answered by saying that the aforementioned hadith (concerning Gabriel's filling Pharaoh's mouth with mud) is sound, and that God may stand as a barrier between a man and his heart (namely, to prevent him from believing), etc. (True Guidance [Light ]

https://mobile.facebook.com/ITAQULAA....bd%2Furl&_rdr
However, the writer's argument that "Also, if Gabriel prevented him from repenting, he would be approving of Pharaoh's remaining an infidel, and the approval of infidelity is infidelity." does not hold to scrutiny due to the fact that Musa pbuh was really made to feel hurt by the injustice of Pharaoh and made a prayer against Pharoah's grace to believe before the last day and Allah swt accepted it. The whole incident:- if true - could also have been a repayment to pharaoh for his relentless attempts to prevent people from receiving Allah's grace by his (pharaohs's) remorseless tricks in deceiving them and thereby leading them to hell.

I have read other books which describe incidences of angels competing with one another to be given the duty to complete a certain errand.

The narration appears quite truthful and not strange considering the situation of many of the Prophets sent to bani Israil - although Allah knows best:


Then said he who writeth: 'Daniel the prophet, describing the history of the kings of Israel and their tyrants, writeth thus "The king of Israel joined himself with the king of Judah to fight against the sons of Belial (that is, reprobates) who were the Ammonites. Now Jehoshaphat, king of Judah, and Ahab, king of Israel, being seated both on a Throne in Samaria, there stood before them four hundred false prophets, who said to the king of Israel: 'Go up against the Ammonites, for God will give them into thy hands, and thou shalt scatter Ammon.''
"Then said Jehoshaphat: 'Is there here any prophet of the God of our fathers?''
"Ahab answered: 'There is one only, and he is evil, for he always predicteth evil concerning me; and him I hold in prison.'
And this he said, to wit, 'There is only one,' because as many as were found had been slain by decree of Ahab, so that the prophets, even as thou hast said, O Master, were fled to the mountain tops where men dwelt not.'
"Then said Jehoshaphat: 'Send for him here, and let us see what he saith.''
"Ahab therefore commanded that Micaiah be sent for thither, who came with fetters on his feet, and his face bewildered like a man that liveth between life and death.'
"Ahab asked him, saying: 'Speak, Micaiah, in the name of God. Shall we go up against the Ammonites? Will God give their cities into our hands?''
"Micaiah answered: 'Go up, go up, for prosperously shalt thou go up, and still more prosperously come down!''
"Then the false prophets praised Micaiah as a true prophet of God, and broke off the fetters from his feet.'
"Jehoshaphat, who feared our God, and had never bowed his knees before the idols, asked Micaiah, saying:
'For the love of God of our fathers, speak the truth, as thou hast seen the issue of this war.''
"Micaiah answered: 'O Jehoshaphat, I fear thy face wherefore I tell thee that I have seen the people of Israel as sheep without a shepherd.''
"Then Ahab, smiling, said to Jehoshaphat: 'I told thee that this fellow predicteth only evil, but thou didst not believe it.''
"Then said they both: 'Now how knowest thou this, O Micaiah?''

"Micaiah answered: 'Me thought there assembled a council of the angels in the presence of God, and I heard God say thus: "Who will deceive Ahab that he may go up against Ammon and be slain?"
Whereupon one said one thing and another said another.
Then came an angel and said: "Lord, I will fight against Ahab, and will go to his false prophets and will put the lie into their mouth, and so shall he go up and be slain."
And hearing this, God said: "Now go and do so, for thou shalt prevail."'

'"Then were the false prophets enraged, and their chief smote Micaiah's cheek, saying: 'O reprobate of God, when did the angel of truth depart from us and come to thee? Tell us, when came to us the angel that brought the lie?''
"Micaiah answered: 'Thou shalt know when thou shalt flee from house to house for fear of being slain, having deceived thy king.''
"Then Ahab was wroth, and said: 'Seize Micaiah, and the fetters which he had upon his feet place on his neck, and keep him on barley bread and water until my return, for now I know not what death I would inflict on him.''
"They went up, then, and according to the word of Micaiah the matter befell. For the king of the Ammonites said to his servants: 'See that ye fight not against the king of Judah, nor against the princes of Israel, but slay the king of Israel, Ahab, mine enemy.'"
'Then said Jesus: 'Stop there, Barnabas: for it is enough for our purpose.'

Barnabas 160
below is a link to multaqa ahl al hadeeth site which discusses the topic and the possible authenticity of the hadeeth:
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=15544


I hope we all already know enough about the miracle of Qadr and Freewill not to fall into dispute about the topic
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-08-2015, 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Sixteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

16. Iblees’s refusal caused his enmity towards mankind to become manifest. Knowing that the result of his pride would ultimately lead him to hellfire, he didn’t seek repentance, but instead asked Allah’s permission to mislead mankind towards the same fate by adorning the path of error for them. He wants our company inn hellfire. Was this request granted to him?
Yes. His requested was conditionally granted. Allah had planned many tests for His servants, and this request of Iblees would become one of them. However, only the deviant would follow him, and not Allah’s chosen ones. As mentioned before, Iblees’s name was first Azazil (some say it was Harith), but after his disobedience, Allah changed it to Iblees – which means “extremely disappointed.” Till today, Iblees can repent, but his pride prevents him from doing so. (Qur’an 38: 67-88)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-08-2015, 10:30 PM
Day Seventeen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

17. Iblees makes use of his sinister intelligence, the fact that he is invisible, and his stealthy powers, to mislead people. He has a highly organised way of doing so. What is it?
Reply

Karl
11-09-2015, 03:14 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Seventeen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

17. Iblees makes use of his sinister intelligence, the fact that he is invisible, and his stealthy powers, to mislead people. He has a highly organised way of doing so. What is it?
The United Nations and other Marxist minions. And his plutocrat sycophants. Those that promise you everything but lead you to death and *****tion the politicians. He has the power to influence people in dreams and corrupt their souls by tempting them to lust for power and dominion by abandoning God and righteousness. Plus all the jinns he puts on Earth to make our lives a misery e.g. bureaucrats, lefty liberals, pop musicians, homosexual hypocrites, self righteous vegetarians, NGO commies, pseudo scientists that lie for political reasons etc. Satan has a massive team at work trying to bring us down.
Reply

popsthebuilder
11-09-2015, 03:41 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Seventeen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

17. Iblees makes use of his sinister intelligence, the fact that he is invisible, and his stealthy powers, to mislead people. He has a highly organised way of doing so. What is it?
It's not that it is highly organized so much as hidden everywhere. It is insidious and deceptive to the core, in all forms. Through introspection, honesty with self, and selfless outward good in all, consciously, to the very best of one's abilities wholly under the direction of God and his will, the deceptive, greedy, prideful things that are generally hidden and creeping in the dark corners can be illuminated for what they are and as such, cast out, or otherwise no longer neglected.
Reply

Karl
11-09-2015, 04:28 AM
Originally Posted by popsthebuilder
It's not that it is highly organized so much as hidden everywhere. It is insidious and deceptive to the core, in all forms. Through introspection, honesty with self, and selfless outward good in all, consciously, to the very best of one's abilities wholly under the direction of God and his will, the deceptive, greedy, prideful things that are generally hidden and creeping in the dark corners can be illuminated for what they are and as such, cast out, or otherwise no longer neglected.
Very good ...did you watch a lot of "Kung Foo"? All you had to say was grasshopper at the end and it would have been perfect.
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-09-2015, 08:22 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
The hadith is in Sahih Muslim and attributed to al baraa bin azib although it sounds dodgy, the case where abdullah ibn salam got them to move their hand when reading the torah makes more sense and it appears to be corroborated by witnesses while the above sounds third hand, also it wasn't the habit of the Prophet pbuh to grab them off the streets, he'd normally turn his face away a few times first.
I'm linking it here and you can do a word search for "revive" if you want to:
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religiou...im/017-smt.php

Here's the one from ibn abbas regarding the attempt to falsify and abdullah ibn salam (ex-jewish scholar)'s rebuttal:




Regarding the 10th Muharram it is clear:



you sound so angry.

Surah Al-Maa’idah verse 42 (English translation)

(5:42) They are listeners of falsehood and greedy devourers of unlawful earnings.
69 If they come to you you may either judge between them or turn away from them. And were you to turn away from them they shall not be able to harm you; and were you to judge between them judge with justice. Surely Allah loves the just.70

69. Here pointed reference is made to judges and jurisconsults who accept false evidence and invent reports in order to issue verdicts contrary to justice and in favour of either those who bribe them or with whom their illegitimate interests lie.

70. Until then the Jews had not become full-fledged subjects of the Islamic state. Their relations with that state were based on agreements according to which the Jews were to enjoy internal autonomy, and their disputes were to be decided by their own judges and in accordance with their own laws. They were not legally bound to place their disputes either before the Prophet (peace be on him) for adjudication or before the judges appointed by him. But in cases where it appeared against their interests to have their disputes judged according to their own religious law they approached the Prophet (peace be on him) in the hope that the Prophet might have a different ruling.

The particular case referred to here was that of a woman belonging to a respectable family, who was found to be involved in an unlawful sexual relationship with a man. The punishment for this in the Torah was that both be stoned to death (see Deuteronomy 22: 23-4). But the Jews did not want to enforce this punishment. Hence they deliberated among themselves and decided to put the case before the Prophet (peace be on him), with the reservation that his judgement be accepted only if it was other than stoning. The Prophet (peace be on him) decided that the punishment should, in fact, be stoning. When the Jews declined to accept the judgement, the Prophet (peace be on him) asked their rabbis what punishment had been prescribed for such a case in their religion. They replied that it was to strike the culprit with lashes, to blacken the face and to make the person concerned ride on a donkey. The Prophet (peace be on him) asked them under oath if the Torah had indeed prescribed that as punishment for adultery committed by married men and women. They repeated the same false reply. However, one of them called Ibn Sawriya who, according to the Jews themselves, was the greatest living scholar of the Torah at that time, kept silent. The Prophet (peace be on him) asked him to state on oath in the name of God, Who had emancipated them from Pharaoh and had given them the Law, whether the punishment for adultery provided for in the Torah was what they had mentioned. He replied: 'Had you not put me under such a heavy oath, I would not have volunteered the correct information. The fact is that the prescribed punishment for adultery is indeed stoning, but when adultery became common among us our rulers adopted the rule that when respectable people committed adultery they were left unpunished, whereas when ordinary people were convicted they were punished by stoning. Later on when this caused resentment among the common people we altered the law of the Torah and adopted the rule that adulterers and adulteresses would be lashed, their faces would be blackened, and they would be made to ride on donkeys, seated in a backward-looking position.' This left the Jews with nothing to say and the adulterer and adulteress were, in accordance with the order of the Prophet (peace be on him), stoned to death. (Ibn Kathir, Tafsir, vol. 3, pp. 574-5 - Ed.)

The above is the explanation of the verse 42 of the Holy Qur’aan. You can see that the Jews had changed the Law of stoning to death. The Prophet Muhammad (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) re-established the same Law for married adulterer only by the Command of Allah. He didn’t receive it from the Jews who had themselves forgotten this Law.

Again the hadeeth about fasting on 10th of Muharram is very pure. It doesn’t have the words that the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) learnt it from Jews. At the time of the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him), the kaafirs used to say that He was taking the message of Qur’aan from the scriptures of the past. That was a very false accusation on Him. Now such words are added to the true hadeeth to strengthen the accusation of the kaafirs and this cannot be the work of true Muslims. Rather it is done by the munaafiqeen. All true Muslims must be standing on a very strong bases of the Faith of Islam. A Muslim shouldn’t vibrate between truth and falsehood. We believe that the whole Quraan and all ahaadeeth came down to The Prophet Muhammad (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) from Allah Almighty. He didn’t take the knowledge of Islam from anyone other than Allah.

I saw the people of two nations who had good understanding of the Arabic language and they were playing with Quraan and Hadeeth. Terrible Fitnah came upon them and cruel people were appointed on them who have no mercy on them. Recently I heard a man of those nations on the net saying the same hadeeth in correct words without any words about Jews etc. Alhamdulillah, that this brother feared Allah and was serious about the hadeeth and alhamdulillah that Allah protected him from the fitnah.

I advise all Muslims that we all must take heed and must become serious and careful about the Holy Qur’aan and Sunnah before Allah catches us. Allah said in surah Hud verse 102—103 (its English translation is):

(11:102) Such is the seizing of your Lord that when He does seize the towns immersed in wrong-doing, His seizing is painful, terrible.


(11:103) Surely in that is a sign for him who fears the chastisement of the Hereafter.
105 That will be a Day when all men shall be mustered together; that will be a Day when whatever happens shall be witnessed by all.

The words in Arabic are transliterated as:

“…Inna akhdhahoo aleemun shadeed”.


It means: “…Surely HIS seizing is very painful, very severe/hard.

I advise all mankind very sincerely to protect themselves from the Anger of Allah.
Reply

Karl
11-09-2015, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by popsthebuilder
I can't help but notice that the stories in the Torah and Qur'an are very similar. Why does there seem to be so much anger over this? It is utterly unifying under God. No disrespect. I'm just curious.
Thanks.
Peace.
All praise is to the One God.
Yes they are based on the Abrahamic mono theistic religion from Mesopotamia. The Quran is the latest edition.
I don't know why some people get so upset about what someone believes in. It is their actions to oppress not beliefs that worry me. Maybe fear is the reason. People fear those that do not conform to their morality, ethics and beliefs. We can see this with Western hegemony trying to make the world in it's image of the new Anglo Jewish American way. Anyone that does not want to live like them or under them is labelled a radical or extremist. But I believe the West is radical and extreme with it's "modern" values and corrupt system. Muslims are just conservatives.
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-09-2015, 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Seventeen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

17. Iblees makes use of his sinister intelligence, the fact that he is invisible, and his stealthy powers, to mislead people. He has a highly organised way of doing so. What is it?
Iblees has his throne on water. He sends his detachments daily to create all sorts of problems, wars, enmity and chaos in the world. He beautifies sin for people, distracts them in their worship, causes them to modify their body, food and surroundings, and corrupt their religion by various legal techniques. However, those jinn who manage to create discord between husband and wife are made to wear a crown in honour for this. (Sahih of Imam Muslim, no. 2813)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-09-2015, 07:40 PM
Day Eighteeen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

18. Shortly after Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was transformed in to a human, Allah showed him all his progeny in the palm of His hands. He seen those destined for paradise, those condemned to hell, and those upon whom were the signs of struggle and pain. He also seen his total lifespan recorded as 1000 years in the Lauh Mahfuz (Preserved Tablet). A man with a bright light shining from between his eyes caught his attention. Allah informed him that this was his son Sayyadina Dawud (عليه السلام‎) and he was given only 60 years. Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) felt sorry for him and gave him some portion of his life from his own time. How many years did he give?
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-10-2015, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by shafat10
Sister nbegam,
Well I haven't done a deep research myself on the topic of whether the flood drowned the whole world or not, but I did read the researches of scholars on this topic and I agree more with those scholars who say that the whole world wasn't flooded, just the few people of Nuh PBUH.
Moreover, the Bible says the whole world was flooded and this is listed as some of the top mistakes in Biblical scriptures according to modern science, hence I agree with those scholars who read in context and with tafaseers that they explain that the whole world wasn't flooded but just the tribe of Nuh PBUH.

The Quran doesn't say "the whole world was flooded", I got to say this again, in context, the Quran doesn't talk about a worldly flood. In context it just talks about the people of Nuh.
So either way, it's up to you, I don't want to argue on this.

And regarding the 120,000 Prophets, see, you said Quran doesn't speak about it so you don't need to know them. Sister, the Quran also doesn't speak about 2+2=4. So does that mean you don't need 2+2=4 in your life? Lol.
The Quran is not a book of Science, SCIENCE, it's a book of signs, SIGNS. If the Quran had every knowledge, then it would be as big as the Burj Khalifa, which is not the case.
Please don't misunderstand, the Quran isn't a book of everything, it's a book of Signs, it is a book of Ayats, to know more about how to lead our daily life, the basic principles are given in the Hadith.
But the Quran also says to gain knowledge. This knowledge is both religious knowledge and worldly knowledge too. Please note!
So the part of Prophets not mentioned is pretty much like worldly knowledge. Same like how you study F=ma in Physics. It helps you lead your life, similarly this knowledge gives you some past experiences of Prophets which is "helpful" if you keep in mind.
Just because Allah didn't write in Quran doesn't mean you cannot learn it for "worldly knowledge".
I already said, F=ma is also not written in Quran. Does that mean using this formula is Haram? Lol.
Hence like I said, something agrees with Quran, we say it's true, something disagrees, we say it's false. Something neither agrees nor disagrees, we say it's ambiguous . And this knowledge which neither matches, nor contradicts, I tag it as "ambiguous" and there's nothing wrong if you learn about them, just like there's nothing wrong in learning F=ma.

And you asked if I have all knowledge of Quran to move to more researches, definitely not! I don't, even my next 25 generations won't. You cannot expect a person to understand everything of the Quran and Hadith even if he lives for 100 years. The most we can do is research and learn, which we do, and which the scholars of the past and present did and do, and scholars of the future will too Inshallah.
Hope this helps.

When I say on this thread that there are only two sources of knowledge, I don’t mean the scientific or other branches of knowledge. Knowledge in this world is vast, but this thread is named “Anbiyaa alaihim salaam” and for information about them or their stories, we surely, have only 2 sources i.e. the Holy Qur’aan and Sunnah. Moreover Allah’s Book and the Sunnah are so perfect that it encompasses all beneficent knowledge and warns us to keep away from useless and harmful knowledge, if not in direct words then in principles.

You said that the Qur’aan doesn’t have 2+2=4. This is very easy thing BUT we were surprised to see that in surah Al-Nisaa, Allah Almighty gave the Law of Inheritance in “fractions”.

You are talking about science i.e. chemistry, physics, Math, biology, geology etc. and you are trying to convince the readers to accept ambiguous statements about the Prophets alaihim salaam. Don’t you know the definition of science??? Science has nothing to do with ambiguity.

Science is defined as a branch of knowledge which is proven by experiments and observations. The most modern scientists proved that Darwin’s theory is false. It has no scientific bases. They gave this statement because with the help of the most modern sophisticated instruments, they observed that inside the cell-nucleus the DNA has many instructions for making numerous kinds of proteins. They understood and claimed that there is a Supreme Creator who is extremely intelligent!!!

I watched this program on You tube---there one could clearly see the fear of the Supreme Creator on the faces of those scientists who observed the great knowledge and wisdom of the Creator Allah. BUT their scientific developments are not beyond the scope of the Holy Qur’aan. Yes! Allah said in the verse 53 of surah Fussilat, (its English translation is):

53.
We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

(See, Allah is Witness over all things, Allah is watching us all everywhere and knows our intentions behind all these attempts. So fear Allah O mankind.)

According to this promise of Allah in the above-mentioned verse, HE gave this knowledge and equipment to the scientists to prove their theories and thus they observed the great Wisdom of Allah (The Only Creator)!

Again we can say in the light of Islam that the formula E=mc2 is not approved by our Prophets alaihim salaam (in the Principles of Islam).

Our Prophet Muhammad(Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) told us to pray: “Ya Rabbi zidnee ilmaa” (O Lord increase my Knowledge); and

“Allahumma innee a’oodhubika min ilmin laa yanfa” (O Allah, I seek refuge with you from a knowledge that doesn’t benefit).

So all scientific and other knowledges which are good for us, we are encouraged to gain it while the energy formula for making atomic bomb and other killer weapons is forbidden for us. All this knowledge is encompassed in the Holy Qur’aan either directly or in the golden principles.

You must know the Scientific Miracle of the Holy Qur’aan. When some Muslim scholars presented the stages of fetal development in the Holy Qur’aan to a great, non-Muslim embryologist, he entered the fold of Islam and decided to replace the stages in his, written, encyclopedia with the stages in the Holy Qur’aan saying that the latter are clearer and more understandable!!!

He was surprised that they (the embryologists) studied fetal stages with the help of very strong microscope. At the time of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam there were no microscopes, then how could he know these stages of fetal development in the womb of mother? So this is a proof that the Qur’aan is God’s Book and Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam is a true Prophet of God.

The Quraanic statements are true and clear. The proven facts of Science are also true and clear.
The Prophets alaihim salaam are the givers of true and clear statements. They had nothing to do with ambiguity.
2+2=4 is very clear. It is far from ambiguity.
The formula F=ma is not ambiguous.

Anyone who is fighting for ambiguity is not supposed to give such examples of science.
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-11-2015, 04:03 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Eighteeen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

18. Shortly after Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was transformed in to a human, Allah showed him all his progeny in the palm of His hands. He seen those destined for paradise, those condemned to hell, and those upon whom were the signs of struggle and pain. He also seen his total lifespan recorded as 1000 years in the Lauh Mahfuz (Preserved Tablet). A man with a bright light shining from between his eyes caught his attention. Allah informed him that this was his son Sayyadina Dawud (عليه السلام‎) and he was given only 60 years. Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) felt sorry for him and gave him some portion of his life from his own time. How many years did he give?
Forty years. Interestingly, when the Angel of Death came to claim his life at 960, he denied gifting 40 years of his life away. At that stage, Allah produced the agreement He made with him, and he accepted it. This is when human beings were called “insaan” – they are prone to forget, and need a recording to remind them. (Qasasul Anbiya of ibn Kathir, page 44)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-11-2015, 04:04 AM
Day Nineteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

19. The offspring of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was extracted on another occasion from his back, and placed in the Hand of Allah like pearls. This time, it was to take a solemn convent from every one of them that none could deny on the day of Judgement. What covenant was this?
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-12-2015, 06:03 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Nineteen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

19. The offspring of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was extracted on another occasion from his back, and placed in the Hand of Allah like pearls. This time, it was to take a solemn convent from every one of them that none could deny on the day of Judgement. What covenant was this?
Allah asked all the souls: “Am I not your Lord, the one and only?” and all replied “Yes.” Thus, the original state of every person is to be a Muslim. (Qur’an 7: 172-173)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-12-2015, 06:04 AM
Day Twenty: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

20. Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) felt lonely after a while in paradise and desired a partner. Allah created Lady Hawwa (عليها السلام) (meaning created from a living thing) painlessly from his lowest left rib whilst he was asleep. There is no currency in paradise, so what was the dowry of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) to his bride?
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-12-2015, 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
The anger may due to ignorance of the fact that many of the early Islamic historians had no qualms about resorting to researching the previous scriptures when they found a mention and sought more details, among the most notable is Ibn Kathir.
They were well aware of the command of Allah to ask the people of the dhikr if they were uncertain and their gearts were not sealed from the truth that lies scattered around (in this context dhikr was torah).

Appears the cia have been doing some homework - notice the three dudes and pieces.


Check out Quran Chapter 18 the cave: verses 16-18 and ezekiel 4:4-6 to see how clarifications, bones, flesh and maps come together, and how they diverge, sometimes the latter confirming, building upon, or replacing the former.
"Ask the people of dhikar" is used only in two places in the Holy Qur'aan. The English translation of the verses is here:

surah Al-Nahal verse 43
43. And We sent not before you except men to whom We revealed [Our message]. So ask the people of the message if you do not know.

surah Al-Anbiyaa verse 7:

7.
And We sent not before you, [O Muhammad], except men to whom We revealed [the message], so ask the people of the message if you do not know.

If you see it in the context, it will be clear to you that the only question to be asked was about the nature of the Prophet alaihi salaam. The people of Makkah had the objection that Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was a human being and that a human being couldn't be a prophet. They wanted the prophet to be angel. So Allah reminded them that all of the prophets of the past for mankind were human beings. Ask the people of the Book whether Musa alaihi salaam was a human being or angel. This is a very easy and direct question about the nature of prophet. Every Jew accepted that Musa alaihi salaam was a human being. But Allah made the Quraan with the Sunnah a perfect guidance for all mankind therefore we all must trust the Quraan for guidance and not the Tawrah or Bible because those Books are now mixed up with human statements and so are not trustable.
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OmAbdullah
11-12-2015, 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by popsthebuilder
I can't help but notice that the stories in the Torah and Qur'an are very similar. Why does there seem to be so much anger over this? It is utterly unifying under God. No disrespect. I'm just curious.
Thanks.
Peace.
All praise is to the One God.

If the statement of Tawrah was fully correct and it was as at the time of coming from God then we could trust it and there was no harm in reading it. But the fact is that those Books of the past were not preserved by God because God had plan to send the Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. As the past scriptures were not preserved, people could change them and now those books are not trustable. Allah (God) preserved the Holy Quraan so that no one can change it and it will be sufficient for the guidance of all mankind till the end of this world. On the Day of Accounting, God will account all nations in the era of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam on the bases of Quraan because it is kept in the same form as Allah had sent it down.


Another reason of anger is that:
At the time of the revelation of the Holy Qur'aan, the idolaters of Makkah used to ask questions from Jews for testing Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. For e.g. they took the questions from Jews to test Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam about the companions of the cave ( see surah Al-Kahf). And also the Jews told the idolaters to ask Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam that how did the Bani Isra'eel transfer from Shaam to Egypt. The Idolaters and Jews said that if Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam could answer such questions then he would be truly a Prophet of God. When they asked him these questions, Allah revealed to him surah Al-kahf and for the question about Bani- Isr'eel, Allah revealed to him the whole surah Yousuf. So at that time no one said that the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam used to take applications from Tawrah!!! But today there are some hidden enemies of Islam who make such statements to attack the faith of the Muslims and turn people away from Qur'aan to Bible and Tawrah. Also the orientalists make such false accusations to help the kaafirs and to stray the true Muslims. Is it not a point of anger?
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Khalid Saifullah
11-13-2015, 08:17 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Twenty: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

20. Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) felt lonely after a while in paradise and desired a partner. Allah created Lady Hawwa (عليها السلام) (meaning created from a living thing) painlessly from his lowest left rib whilst he was asleep. There is no currency in paradise, so what was the dowry of Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) to his bride?
When Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) seen his wife, he instinctively drew close to her, but Allah forbade him from doing so until he recited 20 salutations on Nabi Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم‎). The reason for this was that Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was created with the light of the final prophet in his back, and he was to pass on this trust until the birth of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم‎). (Sharh Wiqayah of ‘Ubaidullah ibn Mas’ud al-Mahbubi, vol. 2, page 30)
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Khalid Saifullah
11-13-2015, 08:17 AM
Day 21: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

21 Allah instructed the pair to enjoy all the bounties of paradise, and they would merrily stroll about covered in a garment of honour made of light. Their privates were internal at that stage, so it was not shameless to wander around in this way. However, they were not to eat from a certain tree. What tree was this?
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Abz2000
11-13-2015, 10:13 PM
سَيَقُولُونَ ثَلَاثَةٌ رَّابِعُهُمْ كَلْبُهُمْ وَيَقُولُونَ خَمْسَةٌ سَادِسُهُمْ كَلْبُهُمْ رَجْمًا بِالْغَيْبِ وَيَقُولُونَ سَبْعَةٌ وَثَامِنُهُمْ كَلْبُهُمْ قُل رَّبِّي أَعْلَمُ بِعِدَّتِهِم مَّا يَعْلَمُهُمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلٌ فَلَا تُمَارِ فِيهِمْ إِلَّا مِرَاء ظَاهِرًا وَلَا تَسْتَفْتِ فِيهِم مِّنْهُمْ أَحَدًا {22


018:022 Yusufali
:
(Some) say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them; (others) say they were five, the dog being the sixth,- doubtfully guessing at the unknown; (yet others) say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say thou: "My Lord knoweth best their number; It is but few that know their (real case)." Enter not, therefore, into controversies concerning them, except on a matter that is clear, nor consult any of them about (the affair of) the Sleepers.
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OmAbdullah
11-13-2015, 10:38 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
When Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) seen his wife, he instinctively drew close to her, but Allah forbade him from doing so until he recited 20 salutations on Nabi Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم‎). The reason for this was that Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was created with the light of the final prophet in his back, and he was to pass on this trust until the birth of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم‎). (Sharh Wiqayah of ‘Ubaidullah ibn Mas’ud al-Mahbubi, vol. 2, page 30)
This is very ambiguous statement for which there is no bases in the Holy Quraan. The Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam never said a thing against the Holy Quraan.

Also note it that Satan has no power at all. Satan is not a king to have his throne on water. Satan is given respite only. Respite means that he will have long life to make his attempts to mislead man kind and also that he can use tricks for that purpose. But he has no power to force mankind to do sin. Mankind is ordered to seek the refuge of Allah from Satan and Allah will save him. Allah said: Inna kaida-sh-shaitani kaana da'eefa (surely the trick of satan is ever weak).

We are ordered not to call Satan powerful and not to address him because then he feels himself very big. But he is not big at all.

sad to say that your thread doesn't mention the greatness of Allah and doesn't put Allah's fear in our hearts, a work that the prophets alaihim salaam always did. Rather you are putting the fear and greatness of Satan in people's hearts. This is very wrong and dangerous thing that you are doing. In fact, in this thread there seems to be Qaadyaani fitnah.
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OmAbdullah
11-13-2015, 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Assalamo alaikum

What’s going on here? I have objections.

O Muslims, you must remember that you have to be Muslims no matter what. A Muslim is the one who submits his / her will to the will of Allah. We have to know the will of Allah from the Holy Quran and the Sunnah of the final Prophet Muhammad Salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam.

Here are many kinds of statements in this thread. I have heard such things before but I couldn’t find any proof of their truth from the Holy Quran or the Sunnah. For example, the Holy Quran repeatedly emphasizes that Prophet Muhammad Salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was a bashar, i.e. a human being. Quran is the Noor (Light) revealed to him so the Noor was with him but he himself was a human being.

Allah says about the Quran that it is Noor, but doesn’t say the same about the Prophet Muhammad Salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam.

Similarly saying that Muhammad Salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was the first to be created, where is the evidence for such statements?

We know from the Holy Quran that history of humankind started with Adam alaihi Assalaam – even when he didn’t come down to the earth. But the history of the earth before the creation of Adam alaihi assalaam is not significant concerning the life of the Prophets alaihimus-salam and their duties.

The word Ambiya is not found in the Holy Quran and Sunnah because it is always written as Anbiyaa (plural of Nabi) and not as Ambiyaa. Moreover, the Anbiya alaihimus-salaam were men of very high status as they were the Representatives of Allah to guide mankind on the Straight Path. So the word must be written with respect, saying and writing “alaihimus-salaam always”.

Please don’t be like Christians who made Jesus equal to God as well as the son of God. God is high above such weaknesses and God is One, Single and Unique Who has no son or relative. Keep Muhammad Salla Allaho alaihi wa. sallam at the level that Allah has given him.
Yaa sister Insaana, jazaak-Allaho khaira and may Allah bless you.


Alhamdulillah that the name of this thread is now changed to "anbiyaa-alayhim-assalaam"
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-14-2015, 02:10 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day 21: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

21 Allah instructed the pair to enjoy all the bounties of paradise, and they would merrily stroll about covered in a garment of honour made of light. Their privates were internal at that stage, so it was not shameless to wander around in this way. However, they were not to eat from a certain tree. What tree was this?
The exegetes have given various opinions in this regard. Some say it was the grape vine, some say it was wheat, whilst some said it was a date palm or a fig tree. Be that as it may, the peculiarity of this tree was that whoever ate of it, had to excrete its waste, and paradise is not a place of excrement. (Al-Bidayah wan Nihayah of ibn Kathir, vol. 1, page 74)
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Khalid Saifullah
11-14-2015, 02:12 PM
Day 22: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

22 After many attempts, Iblees was successful in inciting the pair to eat from the “forbidden” tree. At that stage, he was most probably given permission to roam around in paradise, or it may have been the time before he was condemned. He managed to whisper in the ears of the couple - similar to the radioactive waves of mobile phones that reaches thousands of miles away. First Lady Hawwa (عليها السلام) partook of the fruit, who then encouraged her husband to do the same. What argument did Iblees use to get this seemingly impossible job done?
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Muhaba
11-14-2015, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day 22: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

22 After many attempts, Iblees was successful in inciting the pair to eat from the “forbidden” tree. At that stage, he was most probably given permission to roam around in paradise, or it may have been the time before he was condemned. He managed to whisper in the ears of the couple - similar to the radioactive waves of mobile phones that reaches thousands of miles away. First Lady Hawwa (عليها السلام) partook of the fruit, who then encouraged her husband to do the same. What argument did Iblees use to get this seemingly impossible job done?
Where do you get your information from? Are you getting it from the Bible, which blames Hawa alayha salam of eating the fruit and making Adam alaihi salam eat it. But the Quran tells us that shaytan whispered to them both and they both ate it. In one place in the Quran, it is stated that shaytan did waswasa to Adam alayhi assalam and he ate of the fruit. (It is worth pondering why the Quran says in one place that Shaytan whispered to Adam alaihi salam and he ate of the fruit, without mentioning Hawa alaiha salam or using the dual pronoun.)

Christians blame women for the sin but Islam doesn't. However, the way you state the story also puts blame on Hawa alaiha salaam.

Writing a book is a job of great responsibility, especially writing religious books because wrong information could misguide people and the writer will be held accountable. If you don't have knowledge or the ability to differentiate wrong information from right information, then don't write.
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Muhaba
11-14-2015, 05:00 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day Seventeen: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

17. Iblees makes use of his sinister intelligence, the fact that he is invisible, and his stealthy powers, to mislead people. He has a highly organised way of doing so. What is it?
As it is stated that Iblees will say "fa laa tuloomunee wa lumu anfusakum" (don't blame me but blame yourselves. ) this point is worth thinking about. In the verse, does anfus - plural of nafs - refer to the person or the nafs amara? Allaho alum. Many times it is the nafs amara that makes a person do wrong. It's not necessary that someone comes to you and tells you to do something wrong. But your own nafs whispers to you to do it. Or the shaytan whispers and the nafs amara accepts. Anyway, the shaytan doesn't have the power to make anyone do anything. He just incites, putting an idea in a person's mind and the person accepts, either knowingly or being deceived by shaytan's tricks like the first couple had been. May Allah protect us from Shaytan and the nafs amara.
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Muhaba
11-14-2015, 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Iblees has his throne on water. He sends his detachments daily to create all sorts of problems, wars, enmity and chaos in the world. He beautifies sin for people, distracts them in their worship, causes them to modify their body, food and surroundings, and corrupt their religion by various legal techniques. However, those jinn who manage to create discord between husband and wife are made to wear a crown in honour for this. (Sahih of Imam Muslim, no. 2813)
So you mean shaytan doesn't have power over people but has an gang of shayateen that put wiswaas in people's minds, causing them to be deceived and do wrong. There are many shayateen in addition to Iblees.
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shafat10
11-14-2015, 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
When I say on this thread that there are only two sources of knowledge, I don’t mean the scientific or other branches of knowledge. Knowledge in this world is vast, but this thread is named “Anbiyaa alaihim salaam” and for information about them or their stories, we surely, have only 2 sources i.e. the Holy Qur’aan and Sunnah. Moreover Allah’s Book and the Sunnah are so perfect that it encompasses all beneficent knowledge and warns us to keep away from useless and harmful knowledge, if not in direct words then in principles.

You said that the Qur’aan doesn’t have 2+2=4. This is very easy thing BUT we were surprised to see that in surah Al-Nisaa, Allah Almighty gave the Law of Inheritance in “fractions”.

You are talking about science i.e. chemistry, physics, Math, biology, geology etc. and you are trying to convince the readers to accept ambiguous statements about the Prophets alaihim salaam. Don’t you know the definition of science??? Science has nothing to do with ambiguity.

Science is defined as a branch of knowledge which is proven by experiments and observations. The most modern scientists proved that Darwin’s theory is false. It has no scientific bases. They gave this statement because with the help of the most modern sophisticated instruments, they observed that inside the cell-nucleus the DNA has many instructions for making numerous kinds of proteins. They understood and claimed that there is a Supreme Creator who is extremely intelligent!!!

I watched this program on You tube---there one could clearly see the fear of the Supreme Creator on the faces of those scientists who observed the great knowledge and wisdom of the Creator Allah. BUT their scientific developments are not beyond the scope of the Holy Qur’aan. Yes! Allah said in the verse 53 of surah Fussilat, (its English translation is):

53.
We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

(See, Allah is Witness over all things, Allah is watching us all everywhere and knows our intentions behind all these attempts. So fear Allah O mankind.)

According to this promise of Allah in the above-mentioned verse, HE gave this knowledge and equipment to the scientists to prove their theories and thus they observed the great Wisdom of Allah (The Only Creator)!

Again we can say in the light of Islam that the formula E=mc2 is not approved by our Prophets alaihim salaam (in the Principles of Islam).

Our Prophet Muhammad(Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) told us to pray: “Ya Rabbi zidnee ilmaa” (O Lord increase my Knowledge); and

“Allahumma innee a’oodhubika min ilmin laa yanfa” (O Allah, I seek refuge with you from a knowledge that doesn’t benefit).

So all scientific and other knowledges which are good for us, we are encouraged to gain it while the energy formula for making atomic bomb and other killer weapons is forbidden for us. All this knowledge is encompassed in the Holy Qur’aan either directly or in the golden principles.

You must know the Scientific Miracle of the Holy Qur’aan. When some Muslim scholars presented the stages of fetal development in the Holy Qur’aan to a great, non-Muslim embryologist, he entered the fold of Islam and decided to replace the stages in his, written, encyclopedia with the stages in the Holy Qur’aan saying that the latter are clearer and more understandable!!!

He was surprised that they (the embryologists) studied fetal stages with the help of very strong microscope. At the time of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam there were no microscopes, then how could he know these stages of fetal development in the womb of mother? So this is a proof that the Qur’aan is God’s Book and Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam is a true Prophet of God.

The Quraanic statements are true and clear. The proven facts of Science are also true and clear.
The Prophets alaihim salaam are the givers of true and clear statements. They had nothing to do with ambiguity.
2+2=4 is very clear. It is far from ambiguity.
The formula F=ma is not ambiguous.

Anyone who is fighting for ambiguity is not supposed to give such examples of science.
Sister, everything that you said, I know them well Alhamdulillah as I am a student of Islam and Comparative Religion, so science is one of my major fields, plus, am a student of science.
I will not argue with you, because you have misunderstood many points, specially the ones on science.
Just in short, because defining every point will take hours long and is not possible here.
This thread is about Prophets, yes, but if this thread is only about the 25 Prophets mentioned in Quran and Hadith, then I agree with you, but I believe this thread is about all Prophets, which includes all the remaining 120,000 Prophets that came to this Earth about whom there's no information in Quran and Hadith. So where would you learn that from?

And you said science has nothing to do with ambiguity. Being a student of science, I totally disagree with you. Nothing in science is 100% true. If tomorrow there emerges a new research which will prove the established laws and facts of science wrong, then we will instantly move on and accept the new laws and facts. So science is never perfect, it changes, always. So I disagree with you, science has everything to do with ambiguity and very little to do with un-ambiguity.

Then you brought Evolution. Of course Evolution is "wrong". It's not something new. It was proved wrong long ago, let alone new researches, it was proved wrong back when it appeared first in the community. I don't really know what relation is of Evolution and this discussion.

And about E=mc^2, am totally sorry, but I disagree with everything that you spoke about this equation. Anyone who studied this formula in grade 10 or 12 shouldn't speak something like you did. I don't know if you're a student of Biology or whether you intentionally disregard this equation.
This formula simply states that energy can be converted into mass and mass can be converted into energy. Which means energy neither gets created, nor destroyed, it only changes its form. Now you're assuming that this formula is used for making atom bombs. Sister, assuming that this equation is used for making atom bombs is similar to someone thinking that p=mv (law of conservation of momentum) is used for making accidents in roads and killing people.
I don't really know from where you got your knowledge of E=mc^2 is used for killing people, but I would request you to go back and have a look at what this really means. Everything can be used in a good way and a bad way, if someone makes bombs with this, what does us Muslims or scientists have to do about it? If someone uses the equation of conservation of momentum to increase accidents in roads, what do we have to do about it? Islam isn't responsible for that, neither are Muslims or scientists. Go and ask the person who abuses it, what do we have to do with it? So I hope you understood sister. God bless.
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-14-2015, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
The exegetes have given various opinions in this regard. Some say it was the grape vine, some say it was wheat, whilst some said it was a date palm or a fig tree. Be that as it may, the peculiarity of this tree was that whoever ate of it, had to excrete its waste, and paradise is not a place of excrement. (Al-Bidayah wan Nihayah of ibn Kathir, vol. 1, page 74)
At every place in the Holy Qur'aan Allah said that their private parts/ their shame became manifest to them (that is their natural dress fell down or disappeared). But you say very strange thing that they excreted!!! I say "Astaghfirullah, I seek the refuge of Allah from such statements".

For the readers I post here the verse 22 of surah Al-A'raaf so that they can read themselves the manifestly clear statement of the Holy Qur'aan and then compare it with your false, dirty statement.

22. So he misled them with deception. Then when they tasted of the tree, that which was hidden from them of their shame (private parts) became manifest to them and they began to stick together the leaves of Paradise over themselves (in order to cover their shame). And their Lord called out to them (saying): "Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you: Verily, Shaitan (Satan) is an open enemy unto you?"
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OmAbdullah
11-14-2015, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by shafat10
Sister, everything that you said, I know them well Alhamdulillah as I am a student of Islam and Comparative Religion, so science is one of my major fields, plus, am a student of science.
I will not argue with you, because you have misunderstood many points, specially the ones on science.
Just in short, because defining every point will take hours long and is not possible here.
This thread is about Prophets, yes, but if this thread is only about the 25 Prophets mentioned in Quran and Hadith, then I agree with you, but I believe this thread is about all Prophets, which includes all the remaining 120,000 Prophets that came to this Earth about whom there's no information in Quran and Hadith. So where would you learn that from?


And you said science has nothing to do with ambiguity. Being a student of science, I totally disagree with you. Nothing in science is 100% true. If tomorrow there emerges a new research which will prove the established laws and facts of science wrong, then we will instantly move on and accept the new laws and facts. So science is never perfect, it changes, always. So I disagree with you, science has everything to do with ambiguity and very little to do with un-ambiguity.

Then you brought Evolution. Of course Evolution is "wrong". It's not something new. It was proved wrong long ago, let alone new researches, it was proved wrong back when it appeared first in the community. I don't really know what relation is of Evolution and this discussion.

And about E=mc^2, am totally sorry, but I disagree with everything that you spoke about this equation. Anyone who studied this formula in grade 10 or 12 shouldn't speak something like you did. I don't know if you're a student of Biology or whether you intentionally disregard this equation.
This formula simply states that energy can be converted into mass and mass can be converted into energy. Which means energy neither gets created, nor destroyed, it only changes its form. Now you're assuming that this formula is used for making atom bombs. Sister, assuming that this equation is used for making atom bombs is similar to someone thinking that p=mv (law of conservation of momentum) is used for making accidents in roads and killing people.
I don't really know from where you got your knowledge of E=mc^2 is used for killing people, but I would request you to go back and have a look at what this really means. Everything can be used in a good way and a bad way, if someone makes bombs with this, what does us Muslims or scientists have to do about it? If someone uses the equation of conservation of momentum to increase accidents in roads, what do we have to do about it? Islam isn't responsible for that, neither are Muslims or scientists. Go and ask the person who abuses it, what do we have to do with it? So I hope you understood sister. God bless.
Your statement regarding the E=MC2 is contradictory.

I had to mention the fact that the modern scientists have reached the level of truth because the proven facts of science are true, so they recognized the Great and Wise Creator through science and the Darwin's theory is proved false, it is false, it is against the Divine books including the Holy Qur,aan, but now the scientists proved it false through scientific knowledge. Strange to see that you call the proven facts of science ambiguous!!!

All of these attempts that you are making are to convince people to accept ambiguous statements about 120,000 prophets. May I know from where are you taking this number of the prophets??? Again what for do you want to give that knowledge which is useless??? Look at the false statements of this thread, given by Khalid saifullah. Only these statements are enough for making mockery of Islam. Muslims will surely become unserious about Hell, Aakhirah and their accounting. Is this the purpose of this thread? While giving ambiguous statements about the prophets, you can also bring false prophets which are made by the Qadyaani fitnah. Is that your purpose? Say it clearly, don't give ambiguous statements.
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-14-2015, 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day 22: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

22 After many attempts, Iblees was successful in inciting the pair to eat from the “forbidden” tree. At that stage, he was most probably given permission to roam around in paradise, or it may have been the time before he was condemned. He managed to whisper in the ears of the couple - similar to the radioactive waves of mobile phones that reaches thousands of miles away. First Lady Hawwa (عليها السلام) partook of the fruit, who then encouraged her husband to do the same. What argument did Iblees use to get this seemingly impossible job done?

I am bringing verses of surah Taha from the Holy Qur'aan to see the truth and compare it with the false spicy statement of Khalid Saifullah.

115. And We had already taken a promise from Adam before, but he forgot; and We found not in him determination.

116.
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except Iblees; he refused.

117.
So We said, "O Adam, indeed this is an enemy to you and to your wife. Then let him not remove you from Paradise so you would suffer.

118.
Indeed, it is [promised] for you not to be hungry therein or be unclothed.

119.
And you (will) suffer not from thirst therein nor from the sun's heat.

120.
Then Shaitan (Satan) whispered to him, saying : "O Adam! Shall I lead you to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that will never waste away?"

121.
Then they both ate of the tree, and so their private parts appeared to them, and they began to stick on themselves the leaves from Paradise for their covering. Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray.

122. Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance.

Every sound mind can understand these verses. There is nothing ambiguous. Although in other surahs of the Holy Qur'aan, Allah mentioned both Adam and Hawa alaihima salaam, making the mistake of eating the fruit together but here Allah mentioned Adam alaihi saaam that he accepted the words of satan. This must be to make it clear for mankind that Adam alaihi salaam made the mistake independently. Also he was a man whom Allah has given superiority, moreover he was a Prophet of Allah. So he was supposed to be more careful. Allah is The All-knowing All-Wise. Allah knew that the Christians changed their Book and man being more powerful, accused Hawa (Eve ) of making the major sin to convince Adam alaihi salaam to eat the fruit. So Allah made this point clear in the surah Taha of the Holy Qur'aan and preserved it forever.

The wrong statement of Khalid Saifullah is taken from Bible and not from the Holy Qur'aan and this is very sinful.

Also I must mention that the Commentary says that it is not the importance of the kind of the tree but of the fact that Satan is our enemy and we must consider him our enemy. Actually, Allah had created the first man and woman for living in this world. It was decreed for them to come down to this world and live here for their ordained life. Before sending them down, Allah gave them a small test to prove to them (and to us) that Satan is their (our) enemy, and thus to remain alert about him.

Also Tafheemul- Qur'aan explains that Satan found sex to be the weakest point in human body, therefore, he attacked their dress (to fall). Dress acts like a fort to protect sex organs. Satan didn't tell them directly that he wanted to harm them. Rather he swore and said to them that he was sincere for them, that if they ate the fruit, they would become immortal. This is because mankind has a quality. They always want to achieve a higher level. Satan took the advantage of this quality of mankind. Since then Satan and his friends always put waswasa to mankind that they cannot progress until they don't bring out females to work. Then they slowly and slowly remove her cover one by one until they make her almost naked. Marriages are stopped, adultery increases, abortions and child death increases, human race is killed, family which is the unit of society is destroyed and thus the whole society is ruined. If you keep the meaning that their natural dress disappeared making their shame open to them which they tried to cover with the leaves of the trees, then the damage and the conquences mentioned above can be well understood. But if the statement is not taken from the Qur'aan and is taken from some false source which makes it to be "passing of excreta", it becomes mockery and all those important points are forgotten.
A
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-15-2015, 06:32 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day 22: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

22 After many attempts, Iblees was successful in inciting the pair to eat from the “forbidden” tree. At that stage, he was most probably given permission to roam around in paradise, or it may have been the time before he was condemned. He managed to whisper in the ears of the couple - similar to the radioactive waves of mobile phones that reaches thousands of miles away. First Lady Hawwa (عليها السلام) partook of the fruit, who then encouraged her husband to do the same. What argument did Iblees use to get this seemingly impossible job done?
Iblees took an oath before the couple that eating of the fruit would transform them into angels, they would be guaranteed eternal life, and they will be granted a never-ending kingdom. Who wouldn’t want to ever leave paradise if they are in it? Thus, man’s greatest weakness will always be love for wealth and power, a desire for long life, and dislike of poverty and difficulty. (Qur’an 20:115-126)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-15-2015, 06:33 AM
Day 23: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

23 Did Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) and his wife sin in eating from the “forbidden” tree?
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-15-2015, 06:36 AM
This is my sincere advice to you that you should write the book about the Prophets alaihim salaam in the light of the Holy Quraan and Sunna because book is a source of continuous reward. If it is a good book written for the pleasure of Allah Almighty, it will be a cause of good reward which will continuously reach the writer even after his/her death as long as people read it and benefit from it. On the other hand, if it is a bad book which harms people by taking them away from the fear and obedience of Allah and makes them unserious about the accounting and punishment in the Hereafter, it will cause him/her continuous increase in punishment.

You shouldn’t choose the commentaries like Mazhary’s and Bedaawi’s. Mazhary’s commentary is very straying. It has terrible personal interpretation in which the writer constantly accuses Allah with false accusations. It is so bad that I couldn’t read even a few pages fearing that Allah will catch me in punishment. May Allah protect us, aameen. Tafseer Bedaawi is written by a Shiraazee (Iranian) writer who seems to be shiya. This commentary is also written by self-interpretation and is very repulsive. It was chosen as a course book in the Islamic Institute by the Alawi authorities.
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-15-2015, 07:03 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day 23: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

23 Did Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) and his wife sin in eating from the “forbidden” tree?
Of course, they committed sin but the sin didn't persist. Both of them regretted and became very upset. Then Allah guided them with the words for repentance . So they said, "Rabbanaa zalamnaa anfusanaa, wa inllam taghfir lanaa wa tarhamnaa lanakoonannaa minal khaasireen. ("Our Lord, we (both) have wronged ourselves, and if YOU didn't forgive us and didn't bestow mercy on us, we will surely be among the loosers."

Allah accepted their repentance and they came down to the earth clean from that sin.

This was the difference between humankind and Satan:

Satan made the sin with full understanding and without any deception from anyone. Adam and Hawa alaihima salaam made the sin by mistake and due to deception by Satan. Satan, after making the sin, became proud, didn't repent and proceeded to make more and more sins by straying mankind while Adam and Hawa alaihima salaam became humble and repented to Allah for forgiveness.
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-16-2015, 12:22 AM
Wasal

Shaikh Baidawi was definitely not a Shia!

The author of Tafseer Mazhari was Sufi inclined, thus some accounts on mysticism is found in it
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-16-2015, 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day 23: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

23 Did Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) and his wife sin in eating from the “forbidden” tree?
No. Firstly, Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was only proclaimed a Prophet when he reached earth;

Secondly, the human nature of forgetfulness overcame the couple as well as their inexperience in dealing with Iblees. Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) would thus never fall in to the trap of Iblees on this earth again;

Thirdly, this was a “purposeful mistake” in order to fulfil the divine plan of Allah. It was not committed out of rebelliousness. The forgiveness of both has been mentioned in the Qur’an;

Fourthly, Allah sometimes allows these human mistakes from His prophets so people can regard them, especially those prophets endowed with miracles, as human beings and not turn them into objects of worship after their death. (Hidayat ke Chiragh of Maulana M. Abdur Rahman Mazhari, vol. 1, page 590)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-16-2015, 05:51 PM
Day 24: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

24 Once, Sayyadina Musa (عليه السلام‎) met Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) in the skies and accused him of eating from the forbidden tree, thus causing everyone to become miserable. Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) gave him an answer which silenced him. What was it?
Reply

Insaanah
11-16-2015, 08:01 PM
Narrated Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him):

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Adam and Moses (peace be on them) met, and Moses (peace be on him) said to Adam (peace be on him) "You are the one who made people miserable and turned them out of Paradise." Adam (peace be on him) said to him, "You are the one whom Allah selected for His message and whom He selected for Himself and upon whom He revealed the Torah." Moses (peace be on him) said, 'Yes.' Adam said, "Did you find that written in my fate before my creation?' Moses said, 'Yes.' So Adam overcame Moses with this argument."
حَدَّثَنَا الصَّلْتُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا مَهْدِيُّ بْنُ مَيْمُونٍ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ سِيرِينَ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، عَنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ الْتَقَى آدَمُ وَمُوسَى، فَقَالَ مُوسَى لآدَمَ أَنْتَ الَّذِي أَشْقَيْتَ النَّاسَ وَأَخْرَجْتَهُمْ مِنَ الْجَنَّةِ قَالَ لَهُ آدَمُ أَنْتَ الَّذِي اصْطَفَاكَ اللَّهُ بِرِسَالَتِهِ، وَاصْطَفَاكَ لِنَفْسِهِ وَأَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ التَّوْرَاةَ قَالَ نَعَمْ‏.‏ قَالَ فَوَجَدْتَهَا كُتِبَ عَلَىَّ قَبْلَ أَنْ يَخْلُقَنِي قَالَ نَعَمْ‏.‏ فَحَجَّ آدَمُ مُوسَى ‏"‏‏.‏ الْيَمُّ الْبَحْرُ‏.‏

Sahih al Bukhari
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 260
Arabic reference : Book 65, Hadith 4736
http://www.sunnah.com/urn/44150

Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him): reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:
There was an argument between Adam and Moses (peace be on them both). Moses (peace be on him) said: Are you that Adam whose lapse caused you to get out of Paradise? Adam (peace be on him) said to him: Are you that Moses whom Allah selected for His Messengership, for His conversation and you blame me for an affair which had been ordained for me before I was created? This is how Adam (peace be on him) came the better of Moses (peace be on him).
حَدَّثَنِي زُهَيْرُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ، وَابْنُ، حَاتِمٍ قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا يَعْقُوبُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبِي، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، عَنْ حُمَيْدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ احْتَجَّ آدَمُ وَمُوسَى فَقَالَ لَهُ مُوسَى أَنْتَ آدَمُ الَّذِي أَخْرَجَتْكَ خَطِيئَتُكَ مِنَ الْجَنَّةِ فَقَالَ لَهُ آدَمُ أَنْتَ مُوسَى الَّذِي اصْطَفَاكَ اللَّهُ بِرِسَالَتِهِ وَبِكَلاَمِهِ ثُمَّ تَلُومُنِي عَلَى أَمْرٍ قَدْ قُدِّرَ عَلَىَّ قَبْلَ أَنْ أُخْلَقَ فَحَجَّ آدَمُ مُوسَى ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2652 d
In-book reference : Book 46, Hadith 23
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 33, Hadith 6412
(deprecated numbering scheme)
http://www.sunnah.com/muslim/46/23
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-17-2015, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
No. Firstly, Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was only proclaimed a Prophet when he reached earth;

Secondly, the human nature of forgetfulness overcame the couple as well as their inexperience in dealing with Iblees. Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) would thus never fall in to the trap of Iblees on this earth again;

Thirdly, this was a “purposeful mistake” in order to fulfil the divine plan of Allah. It was not committed out of rebelliousness. The forgiveness of both has been mentioned in the Qur’an;

Fourthly, Allah sometimes allows these human mistakes from His prophets so people can regard them, especially those prophets endowed with miracles, as human beings and not turn them into objects of worship after their death. (Hidayat ke Chiragh of Maulana M. Abdur Rahman Mazhari, vol. 1, page 590)
Here are the verses of surah Taha translated into English. Read them attentively:

121. Then they both ate of the tree, and so their private parts appeared to them, and they began to stick on themselves the leaves from Paradise for their covering. Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray.



122.Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance.
Verse 121 clearly says that he (they both) disobeyed Allah. Disobedience to Allah is definitely sin. In verse 122 Allah Almighty said that Allah forgave him (them). So the sin didn't remain. You or any person shouldn't say that it wasn't sin. This saying goes against Allah's saying. Also it will cause Muslims take disobedience to Allah a light thing and it will lead to grave consequences.

Whether Bedaawi is shiya or not, but his tafseer is very objectionable therefore it is harmful to take statements from it. Also Mazhary's tafseer is very dangerous. It is better for you to stop all such wrong statements, no matter from where you are taking them. I inform you that Allah is Ever-Watching and HIS seizing of someone in punishment is very severe and lasting. Don't consider it light matter! If Allah catches then there will be no way of escape!!!
Reply

OmAbdullah
11-17-2015, 04:45 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
Narrated Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him):

Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Adam and Moses (peace be on them) met, and Moses (peace be on him) said to Adam (peace be on him) "You are the one who made people miserable and turned them out of Paradise." Adam (peace be on him) said to him, "You are the one whom Allah selected for His message and whom He selected for Himself and upon whom He revealed the Torah." Moses (peace be on him) said, 'Yes.' Adam said, "Did you find that written in my fate before my creation?' Moses said, 'Yes.' So Adam overcame Moses with this argument."
حَدَّثَنَا الصَّلْتُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا مَهْدِيُّ بْنُ مَيْمُونٍ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ سِيرِينَ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، عَنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ "‏ الْتَقَى آدَمُ وَمُوسَى، فَقَالَ مُوسَى لآدَمَ أَنْتَ الَّذِي أَشْقَيْتَ النَّاسَ وَأَخْرَجْتَهُمْ مِنَ الْجَنَّةِ قَالَ لَهُ آدَمُ أَنْتَ الَّذِي اصْطَفَاكَ اللَّهُ بِرِسَالَتِهِ، وَاصْطَفَاكَ لِنَفْسِهِ وَأَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ التَّوْرَاةَ قَالَ نَعَمْ‏.‏ قَالَ فَوَجَدْتَهَا كُتِبَ عَلَىَّ قَبْلَ أَنْ يَخْلُقَنِي قَالَ نَعَمْ‏.‏ فَحَجَّ آدَمُ مُوسَى ‏"‏‏.‏ الْيَمُّ الْبَحْرُ‏.‏

Sahih al Bukhari
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 260
Arabic reference : Book 65, Hadith 4736
http://www.sunnah.com/urn/44150

Abu Huraira (may Allah be pleased with him): reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:
There was an argument between Adam and Moses (peace be on them both). Moses (peace be on him) said: Are you that Adam whose lapse caused you to get out of Paradise? Adam (peace be on him) said to him: Are you that Moses whom Allah selected for His Messengership, for His conversation and you blame me for an affair which had been ordained for me before I was created? This is how Adam (peace be on him) came the better of Moses (peace be on him).
حَدَّثَنِي زُهَيْرُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ، وَابْنُ، حَاتِمٍ قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا يَعْقُوبُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبِي، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، عَنْ حُمَيْدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ احْتَجَّ آدَمُ وَمُوسَى فَقَالَ لَهُ مُوسَى أَنْتَ آدَمُ الَّذِي أَخْرَجَتْكَ خَطِيئَتُكَ مِنَ الْجَنَّةِ فَقَالَ لَهُ آدَمُ أَنْتَ مُوسَى الَّذِي اصْطَفَاكَ اللَّهُ بِرِسَالَتِهِ وَبِكَلاَمِهِ ثُمَّ تَلُومُنِي عَلَى أَمْرٍ قَدْ قُدِّرَ عَلَىَّ قَبْلَ أَنْ أُخْلَقَ فَحَجَّ آدَمُ مُوسَى ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2652 d
In-book reference : Book 46, Hadith 23
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 33, Hadith 6412
(deprecated numbering scheme)
http://www.sunnah.com/muslim/46/23

We must note it that the thing which was ordained was the coming of Adam and Hawa alaihima salaam to this world. This Decree of Allah Almighty appears in the verse 30 of surah Al-Baqarah, its English translation is here:

30. And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a vicegerent". They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."

So this was ordained and therefore Adam and Hawa alaihima salaam had to come down to the earth in any case. Adam alaihi salaam could not be blamed for it . But his sin was not ordained. Allah did the test before sending them down. This was to teach them about the test. Surely Adam and Hawa alaihima salaam were sent to this world for a test. Also all of their descendants, generation after generation, were to live here for the same test. Allah knew the weaknesses of humankind as a result of which they failed the test. But they regretted, became humble and repented to Allah. This is what Allah wants from HIS obedient servants. As the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam said in a hadeeth that all of the Bani Adam are mistake-makers and the best of the mistake makers are those who repent to Allah.

But one shouldn't say that Allah ordained the making of sin by them. Please note that it is a very delicate topic which may cause people to go astray. 



Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-18-2015, 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day 24: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

24 Once, Sayyadina Musa (عليه السلام‎) met Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) in the skies and accused him of eating from the forbidden tree, thus causing everyone to become miserable. Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) gave him an answer which silenced him. What was it?
“O Musa, Allah selected you for His message and for direct speech, yet you blame me for thing which Allah had ordained long before he even created me!” (Sahih of Imam al-Bukhari, no. 4738)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-18-2015, 10:27 AM
Day 25: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

25 What was the immediate result of the pair eating from the forbidden tree?
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-19-2015, 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day 25: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

25 What was the immediate result of the pair eating from the forbidden tree?
Immediately, the clothing of light fell off from their bodies, genitals appeared on their bodies, and they ran away in shock. Allah asked Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎): “O Adam, Are you fleeing from me?” “O My Lord, No. I am running due to the embarrassment of my naked state,” he replied. (Fathul Bari of Ibn Hajar ‘ Asqalani, vol. 6, page 367)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-19-2015, 03:17 PM
Day 26: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

26 After about 40 years of the pair enjoying all the bounties of paradise, Allah desired that the populating process on earth should begin. As a result, they were expelled from paradise. Who accompanied them to earth?
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-21-2015, 01:19 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day 26: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

26 After about 40 years of the pair enjoying all the bounties of paradise, Allah desired that the populating process on earth should begin. As a result, they were expelled from paradise. Who accompanied them to earth?
Naturally, accompanying Nabi Sayyadina (عليه السلام‎) was his wife Lady Hawwa (عليها السلام), who landed in Jeddah, Arabia. The snake which allowed the devil to enter paradise was also expelled, it landed in Isfahan, Persia. Iblees landed in a place near Basrah, Iraq; and the eminent Prophet himself found himself somewhere on the mountaintops of India. His first meal was a handful of bor that he plucked from a tree. (Hayat-e-Adam, page 6)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-21-2015, 01:20 AM
Day 27: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

27 What objects did Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) bring to earth along with him?
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-22-2015, 01:36 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day 27: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

27 What objects did Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) bring to earth along with him?
These were five: 1) The Black Stone (Hajr Aswad of the Ka’bah) which was at that time white as snow; 2) Some branches, leaves and flowers of paradise which covered his body; 3) His staff which was from a tree of paradise; 4) Some farming implements like an axe, a hoe, a spade and an anvil; and 5) A flask.

Angel Jibra’il appeared shortly thereafter with seven seeds, instructing Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) to plant them, harvest them and prepare his bread from them. He was ignorant of the process of preparing meals in paradise, as there was no need to do so then. It’s said that in order to prepare a loaf of bread, there were 365 steps that were to be completed. (Hayat-e-Adam, page 6)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-22-2015, 01:36 AM
Day 28: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

28 Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was extremely remorseful for his mistake and cried for 180 years in repentance – 70 years for eating from the tree, 70 years in remorse over his sins, and 40 years in grief over the murder of his one son, Qabeel, of his brother, Habeel. However, as soon as he recited the following words according to the will of Allah, he was forgiven: “La Ilaha Illallahu Muhammadur Rasulullah.” Allah asked him: “O Adam, where did you read these words and how do you know Muhammad?” What was his answer?
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-23-2015, 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day 28: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

28 Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) was extremely remorseful for his mistake and cried for 180 years in repentance – 70 years for eating from the tree, 70 years in remorse over his sins, and 40 years in grief over the murder of his one son, Qabeel, of his brother, Habeel. However, as soon as he recited the following words according to the will of Allah, he was forgiven: “La Ilaha Illallahu Muhammadur Rasulullah.” Allah asked him: “O Adam, where did you read these words and how do you know Muhammad?” What was his answer?
Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) replied that when his soul was being blown in to him, he recalled these words written on the foot of the throne of Allah. (Al-Bidayah wan Nihayah of ibn Kathir, vol. 1, page 71)

Although Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) spoke Arabic whilst he was in paradise, as soon as he descended on earth, he automatically started speaking another language. What language was this?

Syriac. (Sharh Hidayah by Badrud Din al-‘Aini, vol. 1, page 52)
Reply

Khalid Saifullah
11-23-2015, 06:30 PM
Day 29: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

29 Lady Hawwa (عليها السلام) would give birth to her children in pairs - one female and one male. It was decreed that the male of one delivery should marry the female of another delivery, but Qabeel (Cain), refused to do this. He wanted to marry his own twin sister, named Iqleema, because she was more beautiful than the twin sister of Habeel (Abel), named Laudha, whom he was supposed to marry. To solve this, Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) asked both of them to offer a sacrifice to Allah. Both did, but only Habeel’s was accepted. Out of sheer enmity, Qabeel killed his brother and this was to become the first murder in the world. What did the two offer in sacrifice?
Reply

crookedrib
11-24-2015, 12:01 AM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
Day 29: Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎):

29 Lady Hawwa (عليها السلام) would give birth to her children in pairs - one female and one male. It was decreed that the male of one delivery should marry the female of another delivery, but Qabeel (Cain), refused to do this. He wanted to marry his own twin sister, named Iqleema, because she was more beautiful than the twin sister of Habeel (Abel), named Laudha, whom he was supposed to marry. To solve this, Sayyadina Adam (عليه السلام‎) asked both of them to offer a sacrifice to Allah. Both did, but only Habeel’s was accepted. Out of sheer enmity, Qabeel killed his brother and this was to become the first murder in the world. What did the two offer in sacrifice?
Habeel sacrificed his fattest and most best lamb while Qabeel only offered the poorest of his crops to Allah swt.
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