Paris Attacks

[Abz2000]

I ask him if, as someone who mentions the word "justice" a lot, he really believes that stoning a woman to death is the appropriate punishment for adultery."For people who have had adultery committed against them, people who have had their wives taken, a lot will say 'I think stoning to death is appropriate'.

I was like you, I was completely oblivious to Islam and the Islamic civilisation because I was educated in this system.
"But when you look at the rationale and benefits of it, you realise that it is, in fact, superior."
As a young adult, Choudary was far from an observant Muslim. At Southampton University, where he studied law, he was known as "Andy" and by all accounts was something of a party animal.
"I used to get stoned with Andy," recalls one old friend from those days. "He was a really lovely bloke, funny and warm."

The ex-friend says that Choudary showed no interest in religion, but did take exception to the publication of The Satanic Verses. Although that was an event that radicalised a generation of Muslim activists, the former friend suggests it might have been Choudary's failure to land a job with a big legal firm upon graduating that set him off on his path to Salafi righteousness. Choudary is even less keen to speak about his student years than he to discuss his government benefits. But it is known that meeting Bakri Mohammed, then the leader of Hizb ut-Tahrir, was instrumental in his journey towards what he maintains is the true understanding of Islam.
"I admit that I wasn't always practising," he allows. "But it's not from the tradition of the prophet to expose your sins from the past. I committed many mistakes in my life. You are judged on your latest deed, meaning if you made mistakes and corrected them, people should give credit for that. I thank Allah that he guided me. At the hands of Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed, I started to learn more about Islam."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...mic-state-isis

[deleted]
315d, 5h388
Drunk Choudary's just a silly dude, holy Choudary has one of the smuggest, most punchable faces I've ever seen.

ridersderohan315d, 2h191
What's crazy is that Drunk Choudary actually seems like a pretty cool guy that I'd hang out with at a party. He seems like the kind of guy who brings a tonne of beer to a party and refuses to let you pay him back or lets you crash on his couch when you're too tired/sick to call a cab.I just genuinely want to understand how you go from that to being what he is now.

Stillwatch315d, 1h102
I couldn't have said it better. Reminds me of one of the 9/11 hijackers. He lived as the Tennant of some old lady somewhere in Europe. He hung out with her and took her to run errands and was this super nice funny guy that everyone loved. Then he fell in to strict Islam and cut her out of his life and.... well you know the rest. I think it was on a W5 documentary on the CBC where they interviewed her. You could see the sadness in her eyes when she spoke about him. She was still mourning the person she knew.... so sad.

......Around this time, he started going to the local mosque. That's where, he said, he felt 'comfortable' and 'at home'.
This dude had never been to a mosque his whole life, suddenly starts going there every day.Long story short, he's now a hard line Islamist.
We had a falling out and I haven't spoken to him in 2 years.I loved this guy. He's still the only friend I would be willing to die for. And I lost him.
I blame myself for that to some extent......f**k man. Now I miss him. His birthday is coming up on the 14th....I think I'll give him a call.F****g hell Reddit...I'm f**g crying now because I'm just thinking that I had been a bad friend and I should've been there for him when no one else was.

https://m.reddit.com/r/pics/comments...s_deleted_off/

35.*Give full measure when ye measure, and weigh with a balance that is straight: that is the most fitting and the most advantageous in the final determination.
36.*And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).
37.*Nor walk on the earth with insolence: for thou canst not rend the earth asunder, nor reach the mountains in height.
38.*Of all such things the evil is hateful in the sight of thy Lord.
39.*These are among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.
40.*Has then your Lord (O Pagans!) preferred for you sons, and taken for Himself daughters among the angels? Truly ye utter a most dreadful saying!
41.*We have explained (things) in various (ways) in this Qur'an, in order that they may receive admonition, but it only increases their flight (from the Truth)!
42.*Say: If there had been (other) gods with Him, as they say,- behold, they would certainly have sought out a way to the Lord of the Throne!
43.*Glory to Him! He is high above all that they say!- Exalted and Great (beyond measure)!
44.*The seven heavens and the earth, and all beings therein, declare His glory: there is not a thing but celebrates His praise; And yet ye understand not how they declare His glory! Verily He is Oft-Forbear, Most Forgiving!
45.*When thou dost recite the Qur'an, We put, between thee and those who believe not in the Hereafter, a veil invisible:
46.*And We put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the Qur'an, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy Lord and Him alone in the Qur'an, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the Truth).
47.*We know best why it is they listen, when they listen to thee; and when they meet in private conference, behold, the wicked say, "Ye follow none other than a man bewitched!"
48.*See what similes they strike for thee: but they have gone astray, and never can they find a way.

What's the solution? does anyone know.

I don't know. It feels like an old saying, "****ed if you do and ****ed if you don't."

The best solution is that we all repent of our past crimes and submit to God, testify that there is no God but Almighty God and that Muhammad pbuh is His Messenger, establish regular prayer, give regular zakah, and receive glad tidings of a goodly life in this world and in eternity.
If anyone is too foolish or arrogant to accept the truth, then we separate and allow all Muslims to migrate peacefully and rule by the law of Allah, without any kafir harming a Muslim and without any Muslim harming a kafir, and if any wish to later be ruled by the law of Allah they be allowed to migrate to the lands of Islam, and if any from amongst the Muslims decides they want to go to the rule of kufr (God knows what that would be) then they be allowed to migrate to the kuffar.
Please don't keep pretending to hold peace talks while bleeding us dry, the solution is peaceful and easy.
Does anyone have any valid suggestions otherwise?
Anyone ever heard of hadrian's wall?

[Search]

:bism: :sl:

Okay, Abz, I know you put in a lot of effort and thought and organization and so on and so forth in your post and therefore I think the least I can do is acknowledge that. So, please know post acknowledged! And I have only a one-word response:

Peace!

:wa:

[sfontel]

35.*Give full measure when ye measure, and weigh with a balance that is straight: that is the most fitting and the most advantageous in the final determination.
36.*And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).
37.*Nor walk on the earth with insolence: for thou canst not rend the earth asunder, nor reach the mountains in height.
38.*Of all such things the evil is hateful in the sight of thy Lord.
39.*These are among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.
40.*Has then your Lord (O Pagans!) preferred for you sons, and taken for Himself daughters among the angels? Truly ye utter a most dreadful saying!
41.*We have explained (things) in various (ways) in this Qur'an, in order that they may receive admonition, but it only increases their flight (from the Truth)!
42.*Say: If there had been (other) gods with Him, as they say,- behold, they would certainly have sought out a way to the Lord of the Throne!
43.*Glory to Him! He is high above all that they say!- Exalted and Great (beyond measure)!
44.*The seven heavens and the earth, and all beings therein, declare His glory: there is not a thing but celebrates His praise; And yet ye understand not how they declare His glory! Verily He is Oft-Forbear, Most Forgiving!
45.*When thou dost recite the Qur'an, We put, between thee and those who believe not in the Hereafter, a veil invisible:
46.*And We put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the Qur'an, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy Lord and Him alone in the Qur'an, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the Truth).
47.*We know best why it is they listen, when they listen to thee; and when they meet in private conference, behold, the wicked say, "Ye follow none other than a man bewitched!"
48.*See what similes they strike for thee: but they have gone astray, and never can they find a way.



The best solution is that we all repent of our past crimes and submit to God, testify that there is no God but Almighty God and that Muhammad pbuh is His Messenger, establish regular prayer, give regular zakah, and receive glad tidings of a goodly life in this world and in eternity.
If anyone is too foolish or arrogant to accept the truth, then we separate and allow all Muslims to migrate peacefully and rule by the law of Allah, without any kafir harming a Muslim and without any Muslim harming a kafir, and if any wish to later be ruled by the law of Allah they be allowed to migrate to the lands of Islam, and if any from amongst the Muslims decides they want to go to the rule of kufr (God knows what that would be) then they be allowed to migrate to the kuffar.
Please don't keep pretending to hold peace talks while bleeding us dry, the solution is peaceful and easy.
Does anyone have any valid suggestions otherwise?
Anyone ever heard of hadrian's wall?

Hey Abz...,

I like you.....you dont answer my questions..but its ok...

Anyway....Hadrian wall...Yes!....

Imperialist Rome was crushed by the north tribes of England on its Campain to expend their Caliphate!

A whole Legion died at one atempt.

The Emperor order to built the wall..

But, I was surprise that you finaly said what you really believe.....


The bible says that one man is going to apper in the world scenario and he is ganna be able to fix all....when? I dont know....what I know is that I dont want to be here...lol


God Bless!

[Khalid Saifullah]

14 African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax For the Benefits of Slavery and Colonization - - http://www.siliconafrica.com/france-colonial-tax

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[Abz2000]

:bism:

:sl:

Wassalamu'alal mu-mineena wal muslimeena billah, wa manittaba'al hidaayal haqq.

Okay, Abz, I know you put in a lot of effort and thought and organization and so on and so forth in your post

and therefore I think the least I can do is acknowledge that.

That?

So, please know post acknowledged!

And I have only a one-word response:

Peace!

:wa:

They swear by Allah to you (Muslims) in order to please you,
but it is more fitting that they should please Allah and His Messenger, if they are believers.
Quran 9:63

On War & Peace:*2001:
"I'm going to be judicious as to how I use the military. It needs to be in our vital interest; the mission needs to be clear; and the exit strategy obvious. I think one way for us to end up being viewed as the ugly America is for us to go around the world saying, 'We do it this way. So should you.' "--George W. Bush, Oct. 11, 2000

"If we're an arrogant nation, they'll resent us. If we're a humble nation but strong, they'll welcome us."--George W. Bush, Oct. 12, 2000

Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."--George W. Bush, Sept. 20, 2001

"We're under attack because we love freedom, is why we're under attack. And our enemy hates freedom. They hate and we love.
We differ from our enemy because we love.
We not only love our freedoms and love our values, we love life itself. Our enemy hates innocent life."
--George W. Bush, addressing schoolchildren, September 23, 2002

"This is a man who cannot stand what we stand for. He hates the fact, like al-Qaeda does, that we love freedom. See, they can't stand that."
--George W. Bush, on Saddam, October 31, 2002

"They hate things; we love things. They act out of hatred; we don't seek revenge, we seek justice out of love."
--George W. Bush, August 29, 2002

Would've probably got more points for incessantly repeating "post office" like the onion pundits coz repeating 9/11 came back to haunt the evil colonialist invaders after the facts became clear.


And of mankind there is he whose speech may dazzle you, in this worldly life,
and he calls Allah to witness as to that which is in his heart, yet he is the most quarrelsome of the opponents.

:And when he turns away (from you "O Muhammad SAW "), his effort in the land is to make mischief therein and to destroy the crops and the cattle, and Allah likes not mischief.

And when it is said to him, "Fear Allah", he is led by arrogance to (more) crime.
So enough for him is Hell, and worst indeed is that place to rest!

And of mankind is he who would sell himself, seeking the Pleasure of Allah. And Allah is full of Kindness to (His) slaves.

O you who believe! Enter perfectly in Islam (by obeying all the rules and regulations of the Islamic religion) and follow not the footsteps of Shaitan (Satan). Verily! He is to you a plain enemy.

Then if you slide back after the clear signs (Prophet Muhammad SAW and this Qur'an, and Islam) have come to you, then know that Allah is All- Mighty, All-Wise.

From Quran Ch2 Al Baqarah

Hey Abz...,


The Emperor order to built the wall..

But, I was surprise that you finaly said what you really believe.....


The bible says that one man is going to apper in the world scenario and he is ganna be able to fix all....when? I dont know....what :embarrass:pI know is that I dont want to be here...lol


God Bless!

Did you ever read the story of the man with the balance and the edicts?

5When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!”
I looked, and there before me was a black horse!
Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.*
6Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying,
“Two pounds *of wheat for a day’s wages,*and six pounds of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!”
Rev 6:5-6

7.*And the Firmament has He raised high, and He has set up the Balance (of Justice),
8.*In order that ye may not transgress (due) balance.
9.*So establish weight with justice and fall not short in the balance.
10.*It is He Who has spread out the earth for (His) creatures:
11.*Therein is fruit and date-palms, producing spathes (enclosing dates);
12.*Also corn, with (its) leaves and stalk for fodder, and sweet-smelling plants.
13.*Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?

From Quran ch 55, The Beneficent

[sfontel]

[/QUOTE]


Did you ever read the story of the man with the balance and the edicts?

5When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!”
I looked, and there before me was a black horse!
Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.*
6Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying,
“Two pounds *of wheat for a day’s wages,*and six pounds of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!”
Rev 6:5-6



7.*And the Firmament has He raised high, and He has set up the Balance (of Justice),
8.*In order that ye may not transgress (due) balance.
9.*So establish weight with justice and fall not short in the balance.
10.*It is He Who has spread out the earth for (His) creatures:
11.*Therein is fruit and date-palms, producing spathes (enclosing dates);
12.*Also corn, with (its) leaves and stalk for fodder, and sweet-smelling plants.
13.*Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?

From Quran ch 55, The Beneficent[/QUOTE]

Lol....

Intresting picture you put up...

at least you keeped the "lamb" that was slain to take away ours sins...is He who brings judgement!...

You got it say.....Chap 5 is awsome! C'mom....confess....lol....there is nothing else like this!

Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.

And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”

But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.

Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

None but Jesus! Uhullllllllll

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders.

The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb.

Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.” Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand.

They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!” The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
Rev 5:1-14! NVI

Here it is! The guy that many are waiting! The fake fixer.....

I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!”

I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
Rev 6:1-2

Have you ever heard of the "Day Of the Siege"....I guess Bin knew...

Lol...


God Bless!

[Abz2000]

Did you ever read the story of the man with the balance and the edicts?

5When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!”
I looked, and there before me was a black horse!
Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.*
6Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying,
“Two pounds *of wheat for a day’s wages,*and six pounds of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!”
Rev 6:5-6



7.*And the Firmament has He raised high, and He has set up the Balance (of Justice),
8.*In order that ye may not transgress (due) balance.
9.*So establish weight with justice and fall not short in the balance.
10.*It is He Who has spread out the earth for (His) creatures:
11.*Therein is fruit and date-palms, producing spathes (enclosing dates);
12.*Also corn, with (its) leaves and stalk for fodder, and sweet-smelling plants.
13.*Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?

From Quran ch 55, The Beneficent

Lol....

Intresting picture you put up...

at least you keeped the "lamb" that was slain to take away ours sins...is He who brings judgement!...

You got it say.....Chap 5 is awsome! C'mom....confess....lol....there is nothing else like this!

Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.

And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”

But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.

Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

None but Jesus! Uhullllllllll

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders.

The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb.

Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.” Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand.

They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!” The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
Rev 5:1-14! NVI

Here it is! The guy that many are waiting! The fake fixer.....

I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!”

I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
Rev 6:1-2

Have you ever heard of the "Day Of the Siege"....I guess Bin knew...

Lol...


God Bless!

Al-Miqdad ibn Aswad said I heard*the Prophet**صلى الله عليه وسلم**say:
"Not a dwelling (house) whether of brick, or fur will remain on the surface of the Earth that Allah will not ensure that the word of Islam enters it, either honoring an honorable person or disgracing an abject person."*
(Imam Ahmad, At-Tabarani, Ibn Hibban, Al-Haakim, Al-Albany)

Sunan Abu Dawud,Book 35, Number 4234:*
Narrated Hudhayfah:
The tradition mentioned above (No. 4232) has also been transmitted through a different chain of narrators by Nasr ibn Asim al-Laythi who said:*We came to al-Yashkuri with a group of the people of Banu Layth.He asked: Who are these people?*We replied: Banu Layth. We have come to you to ask you about the tradition of Hudhayfah.*
He then mentioned the tradition and said:
*I asked: Apostle of Allah, will there be evil after this good?
He replied:
There will be trial (fitnah) and evil.
*I asked: Apostle of Allah, will there be good after this evil?*
He replied: Learn the Book of Allah, Hudhayfah, and adhere to its contents. He said it three times.
I asked: Apostle of Allah, will there be good after this evil?
*He replied: An illusory truce and a community with specks in its eye.*I asked: Messenger of Allah, what do you mean by an illusory community?*He replied: The hearts of the people will not return to their former condition. I asked: Messenger of Allah, will there be evil after this good?*
He replied: There will be wrong belief which will blind and deafen men to the truth in which there will be summoners at the gates of Hell. If you, Hudhayfah, die adhering to a stump, it will be better for you than following any of them.

*قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لعوف بن مالك:أعدد ستاً بين يدي الساعة موتي ثم فتح بيت المقدس ثم موتان يأخذ فيكم كعقاص الغنم ،ثم استفاضة المال حتى يعطى الرجل مائة دينار فيظل ساخطاً ،ثم هدنة تكون بينكم وبين*بني الأصفر*فيغدرون فيأتونكم تحت ثمانين غاية {راية} تحت كل غاية اثنا عشر ألفاً)) رواه البخاري

Awf bin Malik Al-Ashja'ee said that the Messenger of Allah
*صلى الله عليه وسلمduring the Battle of Tabuk said to him:*"....

There will be Hudna (truce) between you and*Bani Al-Asfar*(refers to the Romans).*
Then,*they will deceive you (break the truce)*and will march against you under eighty banners*
and each banner will have ten thousand (soldiers)."
(Bukhari,* Ibn Majah)

Such a situation would have an approriate response from Allah A'azza wa 'Ajal.

Prophet Mohammad*صلى الله عليه وسلم*said:*"In the meantime, while the Dajjal will be busy doing this and this, Allah will send down*the Messiah son of Mary*(Jesus*عليه السلام). He (Jesus*عليه السلام*) will descend in the eastern part of Damascus, near the white minaret (tower),*dressed in the two yellow garments, with his hands resting on the arms of two angels. When he will bend down his head, water drops will appear trickling down, and when he will raise it, it will appear as though pearl--like drops are rolling down. Any disbeliever whom the air of his breath reaches, and it will reach up to the last limit of his sight, will fall dead. Then, the son of Mary will go in pursuit of the Dajjal, and will overtake him at the*gate of Lud*, and will kill him."*(Sahih Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tirmizi, Ibn Majah).

And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah. Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Quran 8:61

1A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2The Spirit of the*Lord*will rest on him—the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,the Spirit of counsel and of might,the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the*Lord—
3and he will delight in the fear of the*Lord.
He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes,or decide by what he hears with his ears;
4but with righteousness he will judge the needy,with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth.
He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth;
with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.
5Righteousness will be his beltand faithfulness the sash around his waist.
6The wolf will live with the lamb,the leopard will lie down with the goat,the calf and the lion and the yearlinga*together;and a little child will lead them.7The cow will feed with the bear,their young will lie down together,and the lion will eat straw like the ox.8The infant will play near the cobra’s den,and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.9They will neither harm nor destroyon all my holy mountain,for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the*Lordas the waters cover the sea.
10In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious.*
11In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving remnant of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush,b*from Elam, from Babylonia,c*from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean.12He will raise a banner for the nationsand gather the exiles of Israel;he will assemble the scattered people of Judahfrom the four quarters of the earth.

1Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the*Lord*been revealed?
2He grew up before him like a tender shoot,and like a root out of dry ground.He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3He was despised and rejected by mankind,a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.Like one from whom people hide their faceshe was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4Surely he took up our painand bore our suffering,yet we considered him punished by God,stricken by him, and afflicted.
5But he was pierced for our transgressions,he was crushed for our iniquities;the punishment that brought us peace was on him,and by his wounds we are healed.
6We all, like sheep, have gone astray,each of us has turned to our own way;and the*Lord*has laid on himthe iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed and afflicted,yet he did not open his mouth;he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,so he did not open his mouth.
8By oppressiona*and judgment he was taken away.Yet who of his generation protested?For he was cut off from the land of the living;for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9He was assigned a grave with the wicked,and with the rich in his death,though he had done no violence,nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it was the*Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,and though the*Lordmakesc*his life an offering for sin,he will see his offspring and prolong his days,and the will of the*Lordwill prosper in his hand.
11After he has suffered,he will see the light of lifed*and be satisfiede*;by his knowledgef*my righteous servant will justify many,and he will bear their iniquities.
12Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,gand he will divide the spoils with the strong,hbecause he poured out his life unto death,and was numbered with the transgressors.For he bore the sin of many,and made intercession for the transgressors.

7When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!”
8I looked, and there before me was a pale horse!
Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
10They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”*
11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,e*were killed just as they had been.
12I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.14The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
15Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.*16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us f*from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!*17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

1A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.*2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.*
3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.*4Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.*
5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”
And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.*
6The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
(3 YEARS 6 MONTHS)

7Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.*8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.*9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:“Now have come the salvation and the powerand the kingdom of our God,and the authority of his Messiah.For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,who accuses them before our God day and night,has been hurled down.

11They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.

12Therefore rejoice, you heavensand you who dwell in them!But woe to the earth and the sea,because the devil has gone down to you!He is filled with fury,because he knows that his time is short.”

He who "lol"s last, shall "lol" best.

[sfontel]

Lol....whats your take?....Any questions?

You had a dream last night?

God bless!.....The blood Lamb is everywhere!....

[Abz2000]

Lol....whats your take?....Any questions?

You had a dream last night?

God bless!.....The blood Lamb is everywhere!....

The blood of the lamb is being poured from the cup of of the adulterous vampirical wh0re, (read about the king's cup hidden in the bag if you like).
Want a drink? Ima tellin' ya it's potent stuff and stirs storms in the forehead, wanna receive the cup in ya right hand?
You'll have to drink of the fury of the wrath of God with it though. It's no holy grail.
Better you drink from the living and pure stream - i got both, the wh0res one comes easy and at reduced defered rate, brimstone later though. I got both on offer though - you choose.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

I admire the comments from Antoine Leiris, he was the husband of one of the victims.

On Friday night you stole the life of an exceptional being, the love of my life, the mother of my son, but you won't have my hatred.

I don't know who you are and I don't want to know - you are dead souls. If this God for which you kill indiscriminately made us in his own image, every bullet in the body of my wife will have been a wound in his heart.

So no, I don't give you the gift of hating you. You are asking for it but responding to hatred with anger would be giving in to the same ignorance that made you what you are.

You want me to be afraid, to view my fellow countrymen with mistrust, to sacrifice my freedom for security.You have lost.

I saw her this morning. Finally, after many nights and days of waiting. She was just as beautiful as when she left on Friday night, just as beautiful as when I fell hopelessly in love over 12 years ago.

Of course I'm devastated with grief, I admit this small victory, but it will be short-lived. I know she will accompany us every day and that we will find ourselves in this paradise of free souls to which you'll never have access.

We are two, my son and I, but we are stronger than all the armies of the world.

I don't have any more time to devote to you, I have to join Melvil who is waking up from his nap. He is barely 17-months-old. He will eat his meals as usual, and then we are going to play as usual, and for his whole life this little boy will threaten you by being happy and free. Because no, you will not have his hatred either.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3rw6Dgpw4

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric

[sfontel]

I need to read all this....and I am in the midle of a study right now....lol

I always want it to hear how you guys believe....

As I said I read the Koran...but never the hadiths....for a reason but I will bring it up now....

I spoke with many Muslans so far....some very tempered some cool...will see how you come out...

So far...very intresting!

For now...thanks, I will read and follow up

God bless!

[Search]

That actually made me want to cry because it is well-said and very, very beautiful.

The funny thing is I don't hate anyone in the world either, and I don't know why anyone would want to give into hatred either. Hatred begets hatred, and love begets love. I'd rather indulge in the latter.

Thanks for sharing.

Greetings and peace be with you all,

I admire the comments from Antoine Leiris, he was the husband of one of the victims.

On Friday night you stole the life of an exceptional being, the love of my life, the mother of my son, but you won't have my hatred.

I don't know who you are and I don't want to know - you are dead souls. If this God for which you kill indiscriminately made us in his own image, every bullet in the body of my wife will have been a wound in his heart.

So no, I don't give you the gift of hating you. You are asking for it but responding to hatred with anger would be giving in to the same ignorance that made you what you are.

You want me to be afraid, to view my fellow countrymen with mistrust, to sacrifice my freedom for security.You have lost.

I saw her this morning. Finally, after many nights and days of waiting. She was just as beautiful as when she left on Friday night, just as beautiful as when I fell hopelessly in love over 12 years ago.

Of course I'm devastated with grief, I admit this small victory, but it will be short-lived. I know she will accompany us every day and that we will find ourselves in this paradise of free souls to which you'll never have access.

We are two, my son and I, but we are stronger than all the armies of the world.

I don't have any more time to devote to you, I have to join Melvil who is waking up from his nap. He is barely 17-months-old. He will eat his meals as usual, and then we are going to play as usual, and for his whole life this little boy will threaten you by being happy and free. Because no, you will not have his hatred either.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3rw6Dgpw4

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric

[Mr.President]

Im now confused on where this thread is heading ? Wht r we discussing here ?

[Abz2000]

That actually made me want to cry because it is well-said and very, very beautiful.

Awwww you cuddly thing.

The funny thing is I don't hate anyone in the world either, and I don't know why anyone would want to give into hatred either. Hatred begets hatred, and love begets love. I'd rather indulge in the latter.
Thanks for sharing.

Then it would be nice of you if you support the idea of those who've been abused and harmed for decades while the whole world and u.n looked on, to stand and excercise their right to live in an independent state ruled by God's laws.
When they get working on civil administration, food distribution, and nation building ( they have been commended for the results and lack of corruption) it's wiser to let them work peacefully rather than scream "omg their tryina teach sheraya law! let's elimnate them like a cancer".

Allah is testing mankind as He did when He sent the she-camel to thamud.

[sfontel]

Im now confused on where this thread is heading ? Wht r we discussing here ?

Lol...its all part.....

In order to settle, understand id needed!

God bless!

[sfontel]

What about the day of the siege?...

[Search]

:bism::sl:

I feel such envy now, I mean to think I could have been one of the ones who didn't have to envy all the people who haven't had the great honor and privilege of e-meeting you, bro. I mean such loss!

Sure, bro, I sure would like to think things from your perspective, but unfortunately, my reasoning skills haven't left me yet.

[sfontel]

So, I read all.....can you clarify some things?

Al-Miqdad ibn Aswad said I heard*the Prophet**صلى الله عليه وسلم**say:
"Not a dwelling (house) whether of brick, or fur will remain on the surface of the Earth that Allah will not ensure that the word of Islam enters it, either honoring an honorable person or disgracing an abject person."*
(Imam Ahmad, At-Tabarani, Ibn Hibban, Al-Haakim, Al-Albany)


Well to some extend, Islam already entered many houses if not all like Christianity...We Christians believe that there is not a nation anymore to where the Gospel have not yet reached....and that fulfills what Jesus asked....

Now to what deph you verse should be taken? Is there finish line?


Sunan Abu Dawud,Book 35, Number 4234:*
Narrated Hudhayfah:
The tradition mentioned above (No. 4232) has also been transmitted through a different chain of narrators by Nasr ibn Asim al-Laythi who said:*We came to al-Yashkuri with a group of the people of Banu Layth.He asked: Who are these people?*We replied: Banu Layth. We have come to you to ask you about the tradition of Hudhayfah.*
He then mentioned the tradition and said:
*I asked: Apostle of Allah, will there be evil after this good?
He replied:
There will be trial (fitnah) and evil.
*I asked: Apostle of Allah, will there be good after this evil?*
He replied: Learn the Book of Allah, Hudhayfah, and adhere to its contents. He said it three times.
I asked: Apostle of Allah, will there be good after this evil?
*He replied: An illusory truce and a community with specks in its eye.*I asked: Messenger of Allah, what do you mean by an illusory community?*He replied: The hearts of the people will not return to their former condition. I asked: Messenger of Allah, will there be evil after this good?*
He replied: There will be wrong belief which will blind and deafen men to the truth in which there will be summoners at the gates of Hell. If you, Hudhayfah, die adhering to a stump, it will be better for you than following any of them.

*قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لعوف بن مالك:أعدد ستاً بين يدي الساعة موتي ثم فتح بيت المقدس ثم موتان يأخذ فيكم كعقاص الغنم ،ثم استفاضة المال حتى يعطى الرجل مائة دينار فيظل ساخطاً ،ثم هدنة تكون بينكم وبين*بني الأصفر*فيغدرون فيأتونكم تحت ثمانين غاية {راية} تحت كل غاية اثنا عشر ألفاً)) رواه البخاري

Awf bin Malik Al-Ashja'ee said that the Messenger of Allah
*صلى الله عليه وسلمduring the Battle of Tabuk said to him:*"....


Is this a hadith? From when?.....Can you give an explanation of who and what? You have to understand that that are many names and like Arabic sounded words in to that complicates....


There will be Hudna (truce) between you and*Bani Al-Asfar*(refers to the Romans).*
Then,*they will deceive you (break the truce)*and will march against you under eighty banners*
and each banner will have ten thousand (soldiers)."
(Bukhari,* Ibn Majah)

Such a situation would have an approriate response from Allah A'azza wa 'Ajal.

When was this? Already happened? Will happened?....




Prophet Mohammad*صلى الله عليه وسلم*said:*"In the meantime, while the Dajjal will be busy doing this and this, Allah will send down*the Messiah son of Mary*(Jesus*عليه السلام). He (Jesus*عليه السلام*) will descend in the eastern part of Damascus, near the white minaret (tower),*dressed in the two yellow garments, with his hands resting on the arms of two angels. When he will bend down his head, water drops will appear trickling down, and when he will raise it, it will appear as though pearl--like drops are rolling down. Any disbeliever whom the air of his breath reaches, and it will reach up to the last limit of his sight, will fall dead. Then, the son of Mary will go in pursuit of the Dajjal, and will overtake him at the*gate of Lud*, and will kill him."*(Sahih Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tirmizi, Ibn Majah).

Another hadith? From where...when? Why is it important?...



And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah. Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.
Quran 8:61

If you can, please help me completly understand this passages....Thank you...



He who "lol"s last, shall "lol" best.

Lol....its not about the :) , or who lol first or last....but its important to lol!... Lol....

Scientists dont know why we lol....all we know is that is good...so it must had come from God as He says in His word...

God bless!

[Abz2000]

So, I read all.....can you clarify some things?

most of them said "bukhari" "sahih Muslim" "ibn majah" and "Quran" beneath, the first four amongst meny others are recorded narrations attributed to the Prophet pbuh, the fifth is the Quran which one can be certain about, even if future events are described.

I would need to sit at a table with a team of people who are knowledgeable on the subject and sincere in their will to serve God and do what pleases Him, i would need a projector, a laptop, internet connection and lots of coffee before i can even imagine that i'd get you detailed answers that i'd feel confident in presenting as most likely certain, even then, since they're hadith and not Quran, and especially since they describe prophecy/eschcatology, none other than God can be 100% certain of what's going to happen until it happens.
I can however provide you with info on what is happenng to the best of my knowledge.

Lol....its not about the :) , or who lol first or last....but its important to lol!... Lol....

Scientists dont know why we lol....all we know is that is good...so it must had come from God as He says in His word...

God bless!

It is good to lol or use irony or light banter once in a while, but sometimes it doesn't fit lol (stand at ease)

We must try to stay nearer to topic and it's surrounding events despite the fact that conversations sometimes branch off until the topic is almost forgotten, or we can discuss it on another thread - definitely is interesting stuff.
Atten-tion.

[Abz2000]

Ok, i don't want to be a spoilsport for no reason, since you're in the laughing mood, maybe let the irony give us a prod to think more critically, something deeply stimulating about the onion is that it actually make you think, and learn to be in shield mode when switching on the t.v:

This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t

POINT/COUNTERPOINT*

March 26, 2003
VOL 43 ISSUE 12**
*War*·*Iraq*·*Opinion

This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism

Nathan Eckert

George W. Bush may think that a war against Iraq is the solution to our problems, but the reality is, it will only serve to create far more.This war will not put an end to anti-Americanism; it will fan the flames of hatred even higher. It will not end the threat of weapons of mass destruction; it will make possible their further proliferation. And it will not lay the groundwork for the flourishing of democracy throughout the Mideast; it will harden the resolve of Arab states to drive out all Western (i.e. U.S.) influence.
If you thought Osama bin Laden was bad, just wait until the countless children who become orphaned by U.S. bombs in the coming weeks are all grown up.
Do you think they will forget what country dropped the bombs that killed their parents?
In 10 or 15 years, we will look back fondly on the days when there were only a few thousand Middle Easterners dedicated to destroying the U.S. and willing to die for the fundamentalist cause.
From this war, a million bin Ladens will bloom.And what exactly is our endgame here? Do we really believe that we can install Gen. Tommy Franks as the ruler of Iraq?
Is our arrogance and hubris so great that we actually believe that a U.S. provisional military regime will be welcomed with open arms by the Iraqi people? Democracy cannot possibly thrive under coercion. To take over a country and impose one's own system of government without regard for the people of that country is the very antithesis of democracy. And it is doomed to fail.A war against Iraq is not only morally wrong, it will be an unmitigated disaster.

No It Won't

Bob Sheffer

No it won't.It just won't. None of that will happen.You're getting worked up over nothing. Everything is going to be fine. So just relax, okay? You're really overreacting.
"This war will not put an end to anti-Americanism; it will fan the flames of hatred even higher"?It won't."It will harden the resolve of Arab states to drive out all Western (i.e. U.S.) influence"?
Not really.
"A war against Iraq is not only morally wrong, it will be an unmitigated disaster"?
Sorry, no, I disagree.
"To take over a country and impose one's own system of government without regard for the people of that country is the very antithesis of democracy"?
You are completely wrong.
Trust me, it's all going to work out perfect. Nothing bad is going to happen. It's all under control.
Why do you keep saying these things? I can tell when there's trouble looming, and I really don't sense that right now. We're in control of this situation, and we know what we're doing. So stop being so pessimistic.
Look, you've been proven wrong, so stop talking. You've had your say already. Be quiet, okay? Everything's fine.
You're wrong.

The following clip is deep irony that works like a fox news antidote:



It's also ironic that some people expect to see genuine lgbt liberal type islamists as a result:



Then you'll also have those who'd clamour to take the blame for blowing up the sun on a bright and sunny july afternoon if someone asked them to:

[AhmedGassama]

Are those whose make kind of attacks "our brothers"?

Yes indeed, even if they make crimes and terrorist attack, they remain our brothers...

If we fall in the trap of saying "they are kuffar" then they will no difference between them and us.

My point is that in Islam, you need to help our Muslim brother if he is oppressed or even if he is an oppressor, that's what the prophet Mohamed said.
One of the Sahabis told him "How can we do that?" the prophet replied by saying that we need to help him by making him stop his oppression. :)

[Zafran]

Salaam

If the mods are awake they need to clean out this thread because it gone way off topic.

Thanks.

[sister herb]

Yes indeed, even if they make crimes and terrorist attack, they remain our brothers...

If we fall in the trap of saying "they are kuffar" then they will no difference between them and us.

My point is that in Islam, you need to help our Muslim brother if he is oppressed or even if he is an oppressor, that's what the prophet Mohamed said.
One of the Sahabis told him "How can we do that?" the prophet replied by saying that we need to help him by making him stop his oppression. :)

I appreciate your view, it´s far more tolerant than what we many times can see for example also in this forum. Unfortunately I have read often how people write as "if you think or do or say this or that you are kafir, you have left Islam etc.".

:embarrass

[Scimitar]

Obama's Freudian Slip - he admits to training ISIS / ISIL / Daesh



Scimi

[Futuwwa]

Hey Futuwwa....how are you?

Well I agree that is a 100 years after the death of the Prophet....and a lot of things happened as Abz point out....

As I was reading about Caliphates and its rullers...." from Islamic web sites" I learn a quite bit of things...

My comparison is simple and easy..and I did to my self....real Christianity did not comited violence until was taken by the Roman Empire represented by the "prostitute" from the book of Revelations....quote by Abz in a diferent post.... It is historicly proven! Was peacefull and matches exactly with Jesus teachings from the Gospels!

The secular history, proves that Christianity is true to 100% of the Gospel.....It reveals that God and following God is not about violence....not about territory expansion.....not about an eartly kingdown!

Its about expading into humans hearts that God is love and He care for us.....

And from the get go Islam was about estabishing an eartly Caliphate...and history proves this too! And remain with this Ideology even 100 years after Prophet Mohamed death!

Two complete diferent revelations proven by acts of History!

Thats why I said was clear for me...the diferences....

Do you see bias in my conclusion?

Now, 2000 years have past....What is the Ideology of Islam today? I believe its a very very minority that suports IS today.....

And I am not concern with IS brutal samples of Faith.....

I am concern if the Ideology of a Caliphate even if is trough acts of peace(possible?) still exist in the majorit of Muslams minds!!!!

God bless!

I get that you believe true Christianity isn't about establishing worldly empires, but for me, as I don't believe Christianity to be the true religion in the first place, any distinction between "true" and "false" Christianity is meaningless to me, as is the notion that there would be that some specific understanding of the Bible would be objectively correct unlike other understandings. So to me, a more relevant comparison might be what Christians were doing 100 years after having taken over the Roman Empire.

You will find though that Muslims are rather unanimous regarding the righteousness of the early Islamic military campaigns and conquests against Pagan Arabs, Sassanid Persia and the Byzantine Empire. All those worldly powers attempted to destroy Islam in its infancy, and had to be defeated to make the world safe for Muslims and to enable others to freely choose to become Muslims. Any power that would try to destroy Islam, ban Islam or persecute Muslims is one whose overthrow is a righteous act.

As for your question and concern, there are indeed some Muslims who would like to establish a caliphate, and regard it as the sole rightful form of social organization for Muslims. Their idea of what it should be like is usually some sort of imitation of the early historical caliphate under the four Rightly Guided Caliphs, and they would mainly want all the world's Islamic countries to unite to form it. I find it a naive but mostly harmless view. They don't generally support notions of Islamic imperialism. Such is largely redundant nowadays since most of the infidel powers of the contemporary world do not oppose Islam.

[Akingfisher]

There is a huge difference between an innocent civilian and an admitted and participating shareholder with a stake in injustice in a mercenary and unjust nation.
If you claim to be a participant in a democracy, you are the boss of your leader and his actions are taken with your blessing and under your control, you will have to bear the burden and consequence of your leaders acts in such case.

I think you have a poor understanding of Western Democracy!

# 1 Not everyone votes, I am in my mid fifties and have never ever voted nor has my wife or grown up children.

# 2 Even those who vote, they do not have control over the elected government. Because it is an 'Elitist' Democracy where once in power, the government usually do what they think is right for the population.
Regardless of whether it is good or bad!

# 3 Therefore, it is only the people who voted for the winning party that have elected them. The losers who voted otherwise did not elect them.

# 4 Even those who voted for the winning party tend to do so for other social and economic reasons.

# 5 Even when Western Governments decide that military action is necessary somewhere, there can be and often is, some opposition to that.

# 6 Your thinking seems to be the same as al Qaeda and bin laden. Which is that because people live in a Democracy that makes them automatic supporters of the Government and it's actions.
Which then makes them all legitimate targets for revenge attacks including on civilians!

and used the staged false flag events of september 11 2001 to stage a totally false "war on terror" are not punishable in absence of sincere repentance?

The 9/11 attacks have been claimed as a victory for allah by muslims who praise the 'Magnificent 19' by groups such as Al Muhajiroun on it's website.
Also, muslims demonstrating in the UK a while ago, were waving placards and screaming Europe you will pay 9/11 on it's way, bin laden on his way etc!
Anjem Choudary claims it as a victory for allah too!

Therefore, unless the 'Magnificent 19' and all their supporters were/are working for the West, it was a muslim attack!

[Akingfisher]

There is a huge difference between an innocent civilian and an admitted and participating shareholder with a stake in injustice in a mercenary and unjust nation.
If you claim to be a participant in a democracy, you are the boss of your leader and his actions are taken with your blessing and under your control, you will have to bear the burden and consequence of your leaders acts in such case.

I think you have a poor understanding of Western Democracy!

# 1 Not everyone votes, I am in my mid fifties and have never ever voted nor has my wife or grown up children.

# 2 Even those who vote, they do not have control over the elected government. Because it is an 'Elitist' Democracy where once in power, the government usually do what they think is right for the population.
Regardless of whether it is good or bad!

# 3 Therefore, it is only the people who voted for the winning party that have elected them. The losers who voted otherwise did not elect them.

# 4 Even those who voted for the winning party tend to do so for other social and economic reasons.

# 5 Even when Western Governments decide that military action is necessary somewhere, there can be and often is, some opposition to that.

# 6 Your thinking seems to be the same as al Qaeda and bin laden. Which is that because people live in a Democracy that makes them automatic supporters of the Government and it's actions.
Which then makes them all legitimate targets for revenge attacks including on civilians!

and used the staged false flag events of september 11 2001 to stage a totally false "war on terror" are not punishable in absence of sincere repentance?

The 9/11 attacks have been claimed as a victory for allah by muslims who praise the 'Magnificent 19' by groups such as Al Muhajiroun on it's website.
Also, muslims demonstrating in the UK a while ago, were waving placards and screaming Europe you will pay 9/11 on it's way, bin laden on his way etc!
Anjem Choudary claims it as a victory for allah too!

Therefore, unless the 'Magnificent 19' and all their supporters were/are working for the West, it was a muslim attack!

Be sure that it is perfectly lawful to retaliate up to the extent of the injustice done by an aggressor and unless the people of France , U.S. U.K and their other criminal allies are retaliated against according to the number of Muslims they have murdered in the past 10 years and 10 months, or they sincerely repent, establish regular prayer, give regular zakah and rule by the laws of God as enshrined in the Quran and Sunnah, there is no way for the Muslims to condemn those who rectify the tally, one other possibility may be a truce whereby we go our separate ways and allow the people who will live according to the rule of God to come out of their lives as servitude as despised minorities and move to the majority Muslim lands, and for the kuffar who pretend that there is no God or assume that Muhammad pbuh was a liar to leave the countries in which they are a minority, and move to the lands of gog and magog where they can live their debauched lifestyles and let God be the judge between all of us with no hostilities on the part of any side - however, that would be a compromise and matter of council.
There is no "pyar kiya to ni bhana" in such an abusive relationship.
There can only be peace if there's "na mein tumhe satao, na tu mujhe satae".

Do you live a majority muslim country?

[Search]

:bism: (In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent)

Hi Akingfisher, welcome to the board! I'd seen your first post and wondered if you were going to post again - glad to see you're back!

That said, I'd stay away from Abz, as most of what he writes is simply difficult for a rational person to get their heads around. Also, in his world, everything seems to be black and white, and therefore I think you'll have a better chance of having a satisfying conversation with the wall than him.

[Abz2000]

I think you have a poor understanding of Western Democracy!

# 1 Not everyone votes, I am in my mid fifties and have never ever voted nor has my wife or grown up children.

# 2 Even those who vote, they do not have control er the elected government. Because it is an 'Elitist' Democracy where once in power, the government usually do what they think is right for the population.
Regardless of whether it is good or bad!

# 3 Therefore, it is only the people who voted for the winning party that have elected them. The losers who voted otherwise did not elect them.

# 4 Even those who voted for the winning party tend to do so for other social and economic reasons.

# 5 Even when Western Governments decide that military action is necessary somewhere, there can be and often is, some opposition to that.

# 6 Your thinking seems to be the same as al Qaeda and bin laden. Which is that because people live in a Democracy that makes them automatic supporters of the Government and it's actions.
Which then makes them all legitimate targets for revenge attacks including on civilians!



The 9/11 attacks have been claimed as a victory for allah by muslims who praise the 'Magnificent 19' by groups such as Al Muhajiroun on it's website.
Also, muslims demonstrating in the UK a while ago, were waving placards and screaming Europe you will pay 9/11 on it's way, bin laden on his way etc!
Anjem Choudary claims it as a victory for allah too!

Therefore, unless the 'Magnificent 19' and all their supporters were/are working for the West, it was a muslim attack!

God knows! I spent about 26 years of my life there in total after excluding trips to the middle east and south-east, i didn't really notice many people bothering or feeling bothered by the criminal regime in the u.k though for all it's crimes against mankind and it's self-debasing rebellion towards God. i was at the 2005 protest though and was quite hopeful of some sort of positive change, didn't happen and the people seemed to have the ability to forget quickly - t.v and entertainment (often very lewd) seems the main diet after duly servicing the corporate machine and that appears to be the be-all and end-all of life there for the majority. The riotously active tottenham protests were easily steered into a looting frenzy that was easily discredited and promptly clamped down upon. Those people were the deprived section (hope lies within the proles) but since they had no spiritual structure they were routed almost predictably.
Feels like a cattle driven science with much sensual pleasure as the cattle rod. They can even count the number of hours and subsequent taxes they're going to get out of their subjects on any given day almost to a tee. A little akin to the brave new world, metropolis or orwellian models, alcohol, intoxicating liquors, drugs and anti-depressants are like the soma replacement and as they say "jus' one gram and you won't give a da*n". If found it quite audacious when i read a reporter in a mainstream newspaper telling people they could have an extra hour in bed because the clocks were going to change, like slavery to corporations on a religious scale. Fajr doesn't jump an hour though, it stays gradual fluctuations. God is great.

In the majority Muslim countries however, people appear more aware, and come out protesting and burning tyres and pelting corrupt soldiery in spite of being threatened with western despot "gifted" live ammo by western backed despots who go after the most righteous and outspoken in society. And people pray regularly and keep these serious things in mind when conversing with God and when talking to each other at the tea stall rather than just get programmed by the t.v.
Even in the land where the western backed and regularly blackmailed saudi mafia practice tight control on almost everything electronic and social, one notices the cast down look in people's eyes when one mentions the cause or the recently murdered scholar whose words were having an effect.

You complemented me on my style of thinking and i can definitely say i am pleasantly humbled that you go as far as comparing it to that of such noble revolutionaries. Of course, most of the information you get on them is in the mass media and reflective parroted comments sections, it would however give you a wealth of knowledge to actually take the time to listen to some of their speeches and unbiased interviews and compare them with the Quran and contrast that with the corrupt and two faced methods of the western mafia politicians and media tycoons, themself mired deep in and almost exclusively promoting sexual deviance, international mass drug pushing, arms and protection (blackmail) rackets under tin pot despots.

You clearly note that the incessant lies, the baseless, twisted and regularly changed reasons and excuses of the kafir governments and media in their attempted rationale for attacking Islam and Muslims never hold water for long, but as hitler explained, the lie is only necessary for as long as it takes the work to be carried out, narratives can always be changed. Though that kind of mindset is insulting to a thinking mind that can put at least 5-10 years of promises and events into a balanced, unconfused perspective. (hence the flesh flashing and soma).

You, maybe, at the very least have replayed the collapse of wtc7 (the one that no plane hit) a few times and wondered how those other huge steel and concrete columns untouched by smoke or fire symmetrically disappeared before the upper floors symmetrically descended at near gravitational speed where near zero vertical upwards resistance is encountered? However, it's easy to do the math and homework these days, maybe sit down with a physics teacher and run some calculations.

We know bin ladin has on multiple times denied having carried out the operation, despite his clear stance and readiness to claim responsibility for other acts, do you think it was out of fear that the americans might kill him if he admitted to it?
You'll also find that despite the relentless sleight of the tongue associations made by the politicians and lamestream media, he was never officially indicted for the events of 09/11/2001 and that the event was not mentioned on his list of crimes "wanted" page?

What tends to happen however is that many outspoken people are put in a position where they will have to appear to condemn these acts even if they are false flags, and with the use of mocking, eye rolling critics will be made to appear as dismissable loons , who through the fact that they condemn the act accept the invalidity of the right for Muslims to retaliate for crimes much worse in magnitude and horror that have been committed against normally helpless Muslims on a regular basis, crimes rarely given time on the prime time slots and almost always presented in a heavily sanitized fashion (the lipstick, make-up and cleavage on the anchors usually chosen for such presentations prevent one from feeling the horror for start - basic instinct manipulation), so they (those interviewed) usually prefer to speak directly upon the merit of the acts and their context and they are usually much more aware of the other side of the story and the bigger picture than the average news viewer.

Consider the following statements and wonder why you rarely see it like this on tv:

1996:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...96-fatwa_1996/

September 2001 interview:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/intervi...-in-9-11/24697

2002 letter to america:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...24/theobserver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itXhos7yEhc

Do these people appear to you as ruthless, diabolical psychopathic, undignified, money chasing, lying impulsive murderers or as people with abundant sympathy for the oppressed to the extent that they are willing to sacrifice personal priveliges and suffer harm?
Do they seem like the satanic, atheistic anarchist, earthly, hellbound types or do they appear as genuine people who are firm upon faith in God and the fact that they will meet Him?

What are these people saying to you and how affected are you by their pleas? What will you do to try and set things right?
Will it be bikinis and dancing at the concert while the government you own invades, massacres and bombs innocent men, women and children regularly based upon total lies which they know they can afford to tell you with the understanding that you'll not care much or not care at all, or if you do care, that you won't care for long, and that you'll sit passively or feel relieved when they come after the outspoken or active neighbour, or that you'll say "he was actually a nice fella" and the drinking buddy next to you will say "that's what they always say about the serial killer next door!" and you'll both have a laugh and drown out any clarity of thought by the last pint of the night.

Consider that just recently, they beseiged, shot and bombed a girl who must've known something more about the "phantom on the prowl" while the neighbours cowered and then brazenly claimed she blew herself up with a suicide vest - only after the "we're protecting you from the rebels we've been setting up" action show had slightly died down (of course- only after dismal approval ratings were slightly rectified) did they admit she didn't blow herself up.
They called her, got her exact co-ordinates and just started firing.
They did it to De Menzies the electrician after 7/7 too - and even suicided the nurse who started voicing her concerns - after using the press who'd called her a brave heroine before - to discredit her as a depressed loser first of course.
Why don't you bother or care, and even worse, why do you look at Muslims like the kids who'd look at winston smith and cry: "goldstein"?
Do you expect Muslims to smile and tell you how they approve of non-violence, homosexual marriages and moon worship, that they drink cider or smoke crack on the sly at the local strip-club rest room where women are regularly honoured (as long as they submit the government's cut in taxes) and that they hate Islamic law and hate God with a passion while they bleed to death every day of every year?
Or do you expect them to say they'll smile and do the rest as long as atheists agree to stop somehow falsely justifying invading them for wmd or other false flags and bleeding them dry?

Sit down for a moment and consider what's really happening.
What part are you playing in setting things right?
You claim to disown the corrupt leaders, would you, your public servant police forces and majesty's soldiers stand aside while the Islamists deal with them for you? Or would you cheer at a foiled "treasonous" guy fawkes like plot and light a bonfire every year to celebrate?

[Abz2000]

:bism: (In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent)

Hi Akingfisher, welcome to the board! I'd seen your first post and wondered if you were going to post again - glad to see you're back!

That said, I'd stay away from Abz, as most of what he writes is simply difficult for a rational person to get their heads around. Also, in his world, everything seems to be black and white, and therefore I think you'll have a better chance of having a satisfying conversation with the wall than him.

When crypto-nite seethes, superman glows :D
i enjoy the contrast actually, especially when i'm seen as the antithesis of posters such as you.
Hell - who in their right mind wouldn't? Ur better off waving a banner at the lgbt march. :)

[Abz2000]

Here ya go shugga (more like sweetex actually :giggling:):





If you found those to be enlightening, check these out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eF9DCTv3XE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpsFf2qc8DU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lgEpaLVjgo

[Abz2000]

I see you're trying to prevent readers from developing or aggravating health problems such as diabetes. I think that's really thoughtful. Sweetex is supposedly better than shugga itself. It can still be addicting though.

Lolz, your choice, but bear in mind that it's artificial and only for those who can't stomach real shugga ;)
it's weird though innit?
When u see a false flag and you start shouting at the top of your lungs, they roll their eyes and say: yeah, alkayda discredited the Muslims but not us, alkeyda is bad and we're good so let's attack another country and supplement our swiss coffers and get some nobel prizes and tell them it's because they're not handing over bin ladin so they all deserve it.
Then you sit down, you think really really carefully, you've already seen the brazen lies, the cruel murder, the destruction and the slanders, you've lost your bearings.
Then you think, ok, what if alkeyda did do it? Did they have a right? You research alkeyda and see that it didn't give a **** about america's vices (though freedoms is the more politically correct usage to describe decadence). Alkeyda was more concerned with establishing Islamic rule in Muslim majority countries, but was facing american backed tin-pot puppet despots and opium dealers who were getting even more money and weapons by fighting alkeyda, then alkeyda knew it would attack america and america knew it would attack america - especially after the string of vetos on the zionist crimes.
So some great illuminated ones of america (bush? Or maybe his backers - the zionists) decide to attack america when alkeyda and the taliban enforce a successful ban on opium and squeeze the alCIAda which does the smuggling and laundering through the american banks, now the alCIAda have been resorting to getting their fingers sticky in the unexplainable budget pots and choose the perfect time to attack. Especially when rumsfeld is lost for words when it comes to explaining quite a few billion dollars at the pentagon the weapons market is about to take a huge slashing?
Problem arises:
Do you say: this was an evil act in order to cause chaos and let alkeyda take the blame and justify the already planned forays to which the public tend to turn a blind eye.
Or do you say: this is lawful retaliation according to the laws of God as clearly described in the Quran, people get sober and pay attention to the millions your government slaughters, and you patiently wait for the truth to come out and you don't end up having played a part in the "i think it was a false flag" or "alkeyda's evil bomb afghanistan for bin laden" game.
God knows.
Seek the truth, and the truth shall set you free.
It's not difficult to find a few-or many- people who are willing to lawfully retaliate on behalf of millions killed (some being their own family members) especially if you have the budget and the intelligence services which are corrupted to the core. You just need to look at the fbi's track record on that issue. They even pat themselves on the back after foiling their own plots lol! Emad salem at the first wtc bombing and the christmas tree suicide bomber were classics.


Omg, which mujahideen outfit would actually lose an operative by making him go blow himself up with a vest in a place where he could easily leave a bag, especially in the day and age of mobile phones, even the most newbie tinkerers let alone electrician knows how to remove a screen and solder some wires for enough voltage to get a coil going. But then, if it's the fbi they get to kill a few birds with a stone and even wrap it shut without a voice left to whisper.
And only the fbi would be evil enough to convince a kid to blow up a tree - and himself in the process.
Sadly i wouldn't be able to rationalise that one.

Bill Cooper used to speak loud and clear though, interesting that they issued a tax avoidance warrant on him on 9/11, must've had him flustered, but he went down all guns ablazin'. May Allah have mercy upon the man, he seemed quite sincere.

[Search]

:bism:

:sl:

Okay, you flatter yourself, bro Abz. The way I see it, you're our IB's "arithmetic man," that is, you add trouble, subtract pleasure, divide attention, and multiply ignorance.

Finally, I don't know why you keep filling in the blank as to my beliefs: If you have questions, ask, and don't assume. I don't believe in the LGBT movement, but then, I have the freedom of choice to not believe in the LGBT movement just as multiple Christian and Jewish communities also don't believe in the same.

That being said, I have already told you that I feel your views extremely un-Islamic and dangerous and of course the modern definition of extremism. Also, what I find ironic about your extremist views is that you haven't taken the time to actually study Islam with Islamic scholars and deride Islamic scholarship that condemns the extremist movement as un-Islamic.

Also, the fact that you don't seem to understand one simply fact makes me not take you seriously altogether, which is that scholars from reading ahadith have come to the conclusion that the Caliphate will not exist until the Second Coming of Prophet Jesus/Isa alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) and the pledge of allegiance to Mahdi alayhis salaam (peace be upon him). Of course, by default, this fact means that ISIS/Daesh/ISIL seeking to create a Caliphate are obviously deluded, and since you support them blindly, and I am left to assume that you are as deluded as them; and your claims of following "authentic" Islam therefore do not stack up against the reality of what you are actually doing, which I can only describe as hate-mongering against innocent peoples of various nations to justify extremists' egoistic need for vengeance against Muslim lives lost elsewhere in the world (as if two wrongs can ever equate a right, harrumph). Also, I abhor your mentality of grouping Muslims as some kind of hypocrites if they do not believe as you because of course you have some God-given insight into people's minds and hearts (sarcasm).

Also, you support the likes of Osama Bin Laden when he did a manifest wrong in declaring and calling for jihad against Western nations as Islam, as per shariatullah (divine laws), does not permit any human being other than a Khalifa or Sultan to declare war; and Osama Bin Laden was a nobody to do what Islam doesn't permit. Also, you clearly ignore a better part of history (because it doesn't suit your narrative of "us versus them"), which comprises of knowing that Arab Muslims were manifestly responsible for conspiring with the British to topple the Ottoman Empire because they didn't like Muslim Turks to have the power on account of the superiority complex of believing that power should rest instead with them as Islam started in Arabia. So, clearly, who is first responsible for the lack of a Caliphate in the world, the Muslims or the non-Muslims? I'd say the former. If Muslims today are an oppressed peoples, they first brought it upon themselves.

Also, if you'd known only a quarter as much about Islamic spirituality as you seem to know about extant conspiracy theories, you'd know that without heavenly support nothing can happen in the world, and therefore the turmoil in Middle East is directly a result of Muslims' actions, or should I say inaction? Today, Muslims are a humiliated peoples because most of them are cultural Muslims and not practicing Muslims. Does Allah SWT support a community that has mostly forgotten Him? Also, why isn't there a theocracy in Muslim countries? Because Muslims themselves didn't support a theocracy and wanted to copy Western nations; so, stop trying to blame people in the West/Western governments when Muslims themselves are clearly to blame.

Finally, I abhor what is happening in Sham, but the ones responsible for the impasse we've reached in the world as status quo are extremists.

Also, you keep asking people, Muslim and non-Muslims, to repent and return to Allah SWT. How about you? Why not include yourself and repent of your un-Islamic belief composed of your unwavering support of extremists who themselves are undoubtedly going to "go down" in ignominy in world's history, not to mention they will also be paid in full for their evil actions on Judgment Day, but are unfortunately trying to take peaceful Muslims everywhere with them?

I'm not sure you understand what peace means, but hey, Quran says to reply to words of the ignorant with the word, "Peace."

So.

Peace.

:wa:

When crypto-nite seethes, superman glows
i enjoy the contrast actually, especially when i'm seen as the antithesis of posters such as you.
Hell - who in their right mind wouldn't? Ur better off waving a banner at the lgbt march.

[Scimitar]

Search, with all due respect - Abz has been here far longer than you and you haven't really had the chance to let your self get to know him, smae goes for him too regarding you - give each other a break, it's the right thing to do.

Scimi

[Search]

:bism:

:sl: and hello:

Hey, to everyone on the board, I already apologized to Bro Abz for the first line in post #288; I shouldn't have written that. And I'm apologizing publicly too because it wasn't fair of me and also harsh too.

:wa:

[Scimitar]

Right - so now that we got the attacking each other off our chests - lets concentrat on the paris attacks again... where were we?

Oh yes, right,

It wasn't Muslims.

It was a well orchestrated false flag.

It was designed to cause public outrage.

It was meant to foment a full scale invasion into more Muslim lands.

Many more Muslims will die in a multiplier far exceeding the number of non Muslims killed by other non Muslims in this parody of 9/11.

Many are wondering is this is the start of the Malhama - or Armageddon as it is known in Judeo-Christianity.

Have I missed anything?

Scimi

EDIT: Oh yes, and you're all still apparently waiting for Ya'juj wa Ma'juj to be released from the barrier, right :D???

all except Abz, and myself. If there is anyone else, please stand up,

Scimi

[BlueOwl358]

Oh yes, and you're all still apparently waiting for Ya'juj wa Ma'juj to be released from the barrier, right:D ???

all except Abz, and myself. If there is anyone else, please stand up,

Scimi

*stands up* I have no idea what black hole this thread is in, but I am taking the cue. I believe they were non-Muslim (Tengrist, Shamanist and Jewish) Turko-Mongol steppe hordes who were present in the steppes for so long. Mahdi period Gog and Magog (What if Muslims had time periods related to the end times? Dajjalite Period, Mahdite Period?) will probably be their descendants or something. (See Khazar Descendant stuff on Google) (Ain Jalut fulfills the Lake Tiberias theory)

Thats all.

[sister herb]

Non-Muslims? I would use term "false Muslims", if it makes any different.

[Physicist]

Many are wondering is this is the start of the Malhama - or Armageddon as it is known in Judeo-Christianity.

I think it's not the time yet.
There will be escalation and then chinese civilization will play their role, bringing the world into tight balance for a while.

[sfontel]

:bism:

:sl:

Okay, you flatter yourself, bro Abz. The way I see it, you're our IB's "arithmetic man," that is, you add trouble, subtract pleasure, divide attention, and multiply ignorance.

Finally, I don't know why you keep filling in the blank as to my beliefs: If you have questions, ask, and don't assume. I don't believe in the LGBT movement, but then, I have the freedom of choice to not believe in the LGBT movement just as multiple Christian and Jewish communities also don't believe in the same.

That being said, I have already told you that I feel your views extremely un-Islamic and dangerous and of course the modern definition of extremism. Also, what I find ironic about your extremist views is that you haven't taken the time to actually study Islam with Islamic scholars and deride Islamic scholarship that condemns the extremist movement as un-Islamic.

Also, the fact that you don't seem to understand one simply fact makes me not take you seriously altogether, which is that scholars from reading ahadith have come to the conclusion that the Caliphate will not exist until the Second Coming of Prophet Jesus/Isa alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) and the pledge of allegiance to Mahdi alayhis salaam (peace be upon him). Of course, by default, this fact means that ISIS/Daesh/ISIL seeking to create a Caliphate are obviously deluded, and since you support them blindly, and I am left to assume that you are as deluded as them; and your claims of following "authentic" Islam therefore do not stack up against the reality of what you are actually doing, which I can only describe as hate-mongering against innocent peoples of various nations to justify extremists' egoistic need for vengeance against Muslim lives lost elsewhere in the world (as if two wrongs can ever equate a right, harrumph). Also, I abhor your mentality of grouping Muslims as some kind of hypocrites if they do not believe as you because of course you have some God-given insight into people's minds and hearts (sarcasm).

Also, you support the likes of Osama Bin Laden when he did a manifest wrong in declaring and calling for jihad against Western nations as Islam, as per shariatullah (divine laws), does not permit any human being other than a Khalifa or Sultan to declare war; and Osama Bin Laden was a nobody to do what Islam doesn't permit. Also, you clearly ignore a better part of history (because it doesn't suit your narrative of "us versus them"), which comprises of knowing that Arab Muslims were manifestly responsible for conspiring with the British to topple the Ottoman Empire because they didn't like Muslim Turks to have the power on account of the superiority complex of believing that power should rest instead with them as Islam started in Arabia. So, clearly, who is first responsible for the lack of a Caliphate in the world, the Muslims or the non-Muslims? I'd say the former. If Muslims today are an oppressed peoples, they first brought it upon themselves.

Also, if you'd known only a quarter as much about Islamic spirituality as you seem to know about extant conspiracy theories, you'd know that without heavenly support nothing can happen in the world, and therefore the turmoil in Middle East is directly a result of Muslims' actions, or should I say inaction? Today, Muslims are a humiliated peoples because most of them are cultural Muslims and not practicing Muslims. Does Allah SWT support a community that has mostly forgotten Him? Also, why isn't there a theocracy in Muslim countries? Because Muslims themselves didn't support a theocracy and wanted to copy Western nations; so, stop trying to blame people in the West/Western governments when Muslims themselves are clearly to blame.

Finally, I abhor what is happening in Sham, but the ones responsible for the impasse we've reached in the world as status quo are extremists.

Also, you keep asking people, Muslim and non-Muslims, to repent and return to Allah SWT. How about you? Why not include yourself and repent of your un-Islamic belief composed of your unwavering support of extremists who themselves are undoubtedly going to "go down" in ignominy in world's history, not to mention they will also be paid in full for their evil actions on Judgment Day, but are unfortunately trying to take peaceful Muslims everywhere with them?

I'm not sure you understand what peace means, but hey, Quran says to reply to words of the ignorant with the word, "Peace."

So.

Peace.

:wa:

Thanks for saying a lot of what I was going to say.....I am very impressed!


God bless!

[sfontel]

:bism:

:sl: and hello:

Hey, to everyone on the board, I already apologized to Bro Abz for the first line in post #288; I shouldn't have written that. And I'm apologizing publicly too because it wasn't fair of me and also harsh too.

:wa:

Why? .....I mean....Why?

[sfontel]

Right - so now that we got the attacking each other off our chests - lets concentrat on the paris attacks again... where were we?

Oh yes, right,

It wasn't Muslims.

It was a well orchestrated false flag.

It was designed to cause public outrage.

It was meant to foment a full scale invasion into more Muslim lands.

Many more Muslims will die in a multiplier far exceeding the number of non Muslims killed by other non Muslims in this parody of 9/11.

Many are wondering is this is the start of the Malhama - or Armageddon as it is known in Judeo-Christianity.

Have I missed anything?

Scimi

EDIT: Oh yes, and you're all still apparently waiting for Ya'juj wa Ma'juj to be released from the barrier, right :D???

all except Abz, and myself. If there is anyone else, please stand up,

Scimi

Well...somebody said a few posts back that even if they where fake they would stand as brothers anyway....

So like, we just want muslams to take a position....in favor or against!

Its simple as Abz said!

Peace...

[sfontel]

Search...you think that is a miracle the prophet Mohamed survived even if was figthing as you acknolodge.....

What I am supposed to say...when 12 reach a whole empire with out fighting?...axactly as NT says?

How can I believe Christianity is false?

God bless

[Scimitar]

*stands up* I have no idea what black hole this thread is in, but I am taking the cue. I believe they were non-Muslim (Tengrist, Shamanist and Jewish) Turko-Mongol steppe hordes who were present in the steppes for so long. Mahdi period Gog and Magog (What if Muslims had time periods related to the end times? Dajjalite Period, Mahdite Period?) will probably be their descendants or something. (See Khazar Descendant stuff on Google) (Ain Jalut fulfills the Lake Tiberias theory)

Thats all.

Yes, that was the Magog tribes, the Gog ones fell under wide banner termed as Scythians in ancient history, whereas the Magogites were the Turanian tribes of which the Mongols were just one - they all united under Genghis in the end, and formed the Mongol hoardes and attacked the Muslim territories pretty much as soon as the Crusades were over.

Btw, the Crusades were led by Vikings who pragmatically became Christians and took up the name Normans so they could tempt the Pope of Rome to allow their crusader army to attack Jerusalem which was not under the the Roman Churches jurisdiction.

The Vikings were a tribe who belong to the Scythians of old.

In Christian and Jewish eschatology, Jerusalem would be attacked from a northerly direction by the armies of Gog Magog. In Islamic prophecy, we know that the first of them (gog magog) will drink from Lake Tiberias (sea of Galilee) and the last of them will say - there used to be water here once.

As you can see, the Cursaders would have had to stop for their water supplies at Tiberias and they did. Fulfilling one half of the Islamic prophecy and definitely fulfilling the Judeo-Christian one in the process because they did attack Jerusalem from the north and they originally came from the furthest north (Scandinavia) which alludes to Ezekiel's prophecy in the Old Testament regarding Gog Magog.

The latter half of the Islamic prophecy is fulfilled in the modern age - look at Lake Tiberias today, it's a mud swamp.

If you would like more information on this study - please visit this link: http://wup-forum.com/in-search-of-go...og-t25494.html Possibly the best information on the topic of Gog Magog on the web.

Scimi

[Scimitar]

I think it's not the time yet.
There will be escalation and then chinese civilization will play their role, bringing the world into tight balance for a while.

Largest armed force in the world - Xi Jinping is already eyeing America and Europe with contempt. But that's on the surface... under it, they share wine, women and wealth.

Scimi

[Physicist]

Largest armed force in the world - Xi Jinping is already eyeing America and Europe with contempt. But that's on the surface... under it, they share wine, women and wealth.

Scimi

Indeed. All they care is to keep their powers, huggling like traders at the fair.
I suggest, in Syria it'll be like Afghanistan in 70s, West and Russia will be provoking each other to get bogged down deeper at war. While in the West, protests will grow against war and civil liberties suppression, Russia with ruined economics will give up eastern part to China by the same scenario as was in Ukraine.

[Search]

:bism:

I only apologized for the first line, which comprised of an insult to Abz. And intelligent though the insult might have been, it wasn't befitting of me to resort to that when I have the option of refuting his points better, which I did; and just in case you're in doubt, I do stand behind the points in the post I'd made.

Why? .....I mean....Why?

[Search]

:bism:

This is a very simplistic worldview. Prophet Musa/Moses alayhis salaam (peace and blessings be upon him) still had to do dawaa (invitation to submission to God) even though Pharaoh was one of the worst examples of humanity in history because God still held Prophet Musa/Moses alayhis salaam (peace and blessings be upon him) responsible for conveying the message. In that same way, the terrorist organizations and extremists are evil, misguided, and deluded. However, as laypersons, we're not allowed to say that they have become disbelievers simply because the only one allowed to do that are Islamic scholars.

That said, Islamic scholars have taken the position that the extremists' and terrorists' actions are un-Islamic and haraam. Also, Islamic scholars have deemed them as possessing the characteristics of Khwarij as they often perform takfir (declaring Muslims "non-Muslims") which of course means that takfir reverts back to them, and they are the ones who instead become disbelievers in the eyes of Allah (God). So, all in all, as laypersons, all we know for sure is Allah (God) will judge them for their evil and they will be paid in full for their evil actions on Judgment Day.

Muslims worldwide are against extremists and terrorists. Full Stop. Period. Dot. However, whether the extremists and terrorists are out of the folds of Islam, is not the judgment domain of the Muslim layperson but Islamic scholars. So, calling an extremist or terrorist a "brother" is not actually endorsing the extremists' position.

Well...somebody said a few posts back that even if they where fake they would stand as brothers anyway....

So like, we just want muslams to take a position....in favor or against!

Its simple as Abz said!

Peace...

[Search]

Search...you think that is a miracle the prophet Mohamed survived even if was figthing as you acknolodge.....

What I am supposed to say...when 12 reach a whole empire with out fighting?...axactly as NT says?

How can I believe Christianity is false?

God bless

Uh, I'm sorry I really didn't understand what question you were trying to ask in the first two lines.

Well, how can you believe Christianity is false? I don't know the answer to that question. I know, having studied Christianity, that I do not believe in its tenets. Did I mention I used to be an atheist/agnostic at one point in life? So, I don't know how to answer you as to that question.

While I believe the Christianity that is practiced today is not the original religion of submission to God that was with Prophet Jesus (Isa) alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) came, I still respect Christianity and Christians. While Islam holds Christianity and Christians in esteem, Islam also says that Christianity has been changed to suit the times and people's understanding of the world whereas the people who did so did not have the authority to do so because God did not give any persons divine permission to change his divine regulations. That is why Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) was sent, to confirm what was sent previously and disavow what was added by the hands of men. The Jewish peoples, for example, are still waiting for their two prophets to arrive. According to Islam, Jewish peoples are correct about there being one God, but are incorrect in rejecting the two prophets sent (that is, the aforementioned). And according to Islam, Christians are astray for worshiping Jesus when he was a man like them and a figurative son of God as we too all are "children of God" when they should instead worship the one God only.

That being said, when I was atheist/agnostic, I did make a prayer to God to guide me (even though I wasn't really sure if there was a god to listen to my prayer). Maybe you can do the same? I don't know. Just a suggestion. Also, please recognize a spiritual fact of existence: Belief resides in the heart. Faith is a matter of belief. Faith and guidance come from God.

[sfontel]

Yes, that was the Magog tribes, the Gog ones fell under wide banner termed as Scythians in ancient history, whereas the Magogites were the Turanian tribes of which the Mongols were just one - they all united under Genghis in the end, and formed the Mongol hoardes and attacked the Muslim territories pretty much as soon as the Crusades were over.

Btw, the Crusades were led by Vikings who pragmatically became Christians and took up the name Normans so they could tempt the Pope of Rome to allow their crusader army to attack Jerusalem which was not under the the Roman Churches jurisdiction.

The Vikings were a tribe who belong to the Scythians of old.

In Christian and Jewish eschatology, Jerusalem would be attacked from a northerly direction by the armies of Gog Magog. In Islamic prophecy, we know that the first of them (gog magog) will drink from Lake Tiberias (sea of Galilee) and the last of them will say - there used to be water here once.

As you can see, the Cursaders would have had to stop for their water supplies at Tiberias and they did. Fulfilling one half of the Islamic prophecy and definitely fulfilling the Judeo-Christian one in the process because they did attack Jerusalem from the north and they originally came from the furthest north (Scandinavia) which alludes to Ezekiel's prophecy in the Old Testament regarding Gog Magog.

The latter half of the Islamic prophecy is fulfilled in the modern age - look at Lake Tiberias today, it's a mud swamp.

If you would like more information on this study - please visit this link: http://wup-forum.com/in-search-of-go...og-t25494.html Possibly the best information on the topic of Gog Magog on the web.

Scimi

Intresting to see how you guys bilieve...

Thanks! God bless!

[sfontel]

:bism: (In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent)

Hi Akingfisher, welcome to the board! I'd seen your first post and wondered if you were going to post again - glad to see you're back!

That said, I'd stay away from Abz, as most of what he writes is simply difficult for a rational person to get their heads around. Also, in his world, everything seems to be black and white, and therefore I think you'll have a better chance of having a satisfying conversation with the wall than him.

Lol.....Abz is cool...cmom! Even if he does not like my lol...

[sfontel]

:bism:

This is a very simplistic worldview. Prophet Musa/Moses alayhis salaam (peace and blessings be upon him) still had to do dawaa (invitation to submission to God) even though Pharaoh was one of the worst examples of humanity in history because God still held Prophet Musa/Moses alayhis salaam (peace and blessings be upon him) responsible for conveying the message. In that same way, the terrorist organizations and extremists are evil, misguided, and deluded. However, as laypersons, we're not allowed to say that they have become disbelievers simply because the only one allowed to do that are Islamic scholars.

That said, Islamic scholars have taken the position that the extremists' and terrorists' actions are un-Islamic and haraam. Also, Islamic scholars have deemed them as possessing the characteristics of Khwarij as they often perform takfir (declaring Muslims "non-Muslims") which of course means that takfir reverts back to them, and they are the ones who instead become disbelievers in the eyes of Allah (God). So, all in all, as laypersons, all we know for sure is Allah (God) will judge them for their evil and they will be paid in full for their evil actions on Judgment Day.

Muslims worldwide are against extremists and terrorists. Full Stop. Period. Dot. However, whether the extremists and terrorists are out of the folds of Islam, is not the judgment domain of the Muslim layperson but Islamic scholars. So, calling an extremist or terrorist a "brother" is not actually endorsing the extremists' position.

So.... Like you wait on the Pope to answer questions for you like Catholics do...

Understood....

I did not know that...And I have a felling westerns either....they need to know....

There may be a few problems....with such division in muslam faith...who are the popes?????????? Do you know?

Even it may have a few people thinking that that post coments have nothig to do with the original idea...I believe is quite the oposit...

We dont understand Muslams...and unless we will remain like that!

So...is a black hole? It may be...but we say that to get better it need to get worse....

Search....that was not a question...was a coment..

You said that Prophet Mohamed won over opression....even if took some batlles as schollars agree as you said....so that was a kind of miracle...when a litle army conquer biger ones....

I said.....12 man, not even an small army...12 man changed the Roman Empire! With out figthing back....

Was this a miracle of true God of love?

God bless!

I want to learn more...and Abz...I am working on your answer...

But I am frustred that you need a coffe table to explain things of your faith as for a man the was said to simple and black and white....

God Bless!

[Akingfisher]

Isn't there an islamic imperative to conquer the world for allah and rule the world with sharia which has nothing to do with anything else that has happened or is happening now?

I refer to:
[48.28] He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion that He may make it prevail over all the religions; and Allah is enough for a witness.
[48.29] Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.

Also, isn't one of the ways of achieving this by hijrah, jihad by emigration?

So it matters not about any other supposed or actual reason, other than islamic world rule!

May be I misunderstand the texts, although they seem very clear!

[Akingfisher]

kuffar enemies of Allah who live like animals or worse and accuse the righteous of being aggressors.

Do you know about the muslim Pakistani grooming and rape gangs in the UK? Particularly in Rotherham, do a google search for it!

Would any muslim please tell me if such things are halal?

[Akingfisher]

Then it would be nice of you if you support the idea of those who've been abused and harmed for decades while the whole world and u.n looked on, to stand and excercise their right to live in an independent state ruled by God's laws.
When they get working on civil administration, food distribution, and nation building ( they have been commended for the results and lack of corruption) it's wiser to let them work peacefully rather than scream "omg their tryina teach sheraya law! let's elimnate them like a cancer".

So sex slavery of women and children and selling sex slaves and burning captives alive is commendable?

[Akingfisher]

It was a slip up more than likely!

A comment from the YouTube video:
[BANANA]
Or did he mean "we are speeding up the training against ISIL?"[/BANANA]

[Akingfisher]

:bism: (In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent)

Hi Akingfisher, welcome to the board! I'd seen your first post and wondered if you were going to post again - glad to see you're back!

That said, I'd stay away from Abz, as most of what he writes is simply difficult for a rational person to get their heads around. Also, in his world, everything seems to be black and white, and therefore I think you'll have a better chance of having a satisfying conversation with the wall than him.

Thanks for your welcome and advice.

[strivingobserver98]

Fans of Panathinaikos football club: "We pray for Paris as we pray for Gaza and Syria".

[strivingobserver98]

Okay remember the twitter post before it happened?

Here's another coincidence..

Interesting.

Ok so this is battlefield 3
In this mission you have to stop a bomb exploding in Paris and you will start chasing the terrorists.
Look at the date.
Just look.
This will mess with you. - Dayna Behsman

[Physicist]

Okay remember the twitter post before it happened?

Here's another coincidence..

Interesting.

I think its just a coincidence, there are many games about terrorists with the different dates.

Btw, about conspiracy, who do you think are 'Anonymous'?
Are they are real enthusiast hackers or just another propaganda tool?
I think the latter.

[sfontel]

Thanks!

God bless![emoji1]

[Abz2000]

I think its just a coincidence, there are many games about terrorists with the different dates.

Btw, about conspiracy, who do you think are 'Anonymous'?
Are they are real enthusiast hackers or just another propaganda tool?
I think the latter.

Paid geeks? Certain outfits been running quite a few competitions under the guise of "vulnerability testing" and handing out prizes, all they'd have to do is run a profile on each one and recruit the dumbest smart ones.

Remember fast and furious when the rock dude recruits dominic and crew?

[sfontel]

Isn't there an islamic imperative to conquer the world for allah and rule the world with sharia which has nothing to do with anything else that has happened or is happening now?

I refer to:
[48.28] He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion that He may make it prevail over all the religions; and Allah is enough for a witness.
[48.29] Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.

Also, isn't one of the ways of achieving this by hijrah, jihad by emigration?

So it matters not about any other supposed or actual reason, other than islamic world rule!

May be I misunderstand the texts, although they seem very clear!

That it may be....with all Christians follower of scripture dead....

And the judgment day!.....

Easy....

[Search]

:bism:

Lol, sfontel - who told you that?

From the End of Times' Islamic description, it is clear instead that Muslims and Christians will become united as simply "believers" with the Second Coming of Prophet Jesus/Isa alayhis salaam (peace be upon him). Because currently, the main difference in theology that divide Muslims and Christians is whether Jesus was the son of God, and according to Islam, that is clarified with his return.

As for for the Caliphate, well, according to the End of Times' description, again, it doesn't happen until the pledge of allegiance to Mahdi alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) and the Second Coming of Prophet Jesus/Isa alayhis salaam (peace be upon him).

Judgment Day doesn't happen until much later: Judgment Day doesn't occur until not one person on earth remains remembering Allah (God).

That it may be....with all Christians follower of scripture dead....

And the judgment day!.....

Easy....

[airetupal]

If a muslim suicide bomber, very devoted and willing to be a martir. Wants to kill dozens of infidels , but due to a malfuntion, the thing explodes before and only him is killed. Does he still get the 72 virgins? Just 36? 18? None?

[Search]

:bism:

Do you know about the muslim Pakistani grooming and rape gangs in the UK? Particularly in Rotherham, do a google search for it!

Would any muslim please tell me if such things are halal?

No, such a thing is absolutely haram (forbidden) in Islam and people perpetrating this injustice and oppression and evil be punished on Judgment Day, maybe even this life if God wills.

Please remember that people commit injustices and oppression and evil against other people; religions do not ever teach people to commit injustices and oppression and evil.

[Search]

:bism:

So sex slavery of women and children and selling sex slaves and burning captives alive is commendable?

ALL of the enumerated actions above are haram (forbidden) in Islam.

Which means that terrorists and extremists are perverting Islam.

[Abz2000]

If a muslim suicide bomber, very devoted and willing to be a martir. Wants to kill dozens of infidels , but due to a malfuntion, the thing explodes before and only him is killed. Does he still get the 72 virgins? Just 36? 18? None?

:) well that would depend on the depth of his knowledge, his sincerity, and his intention.

Amr ibn Al-As reported:
The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said,
“If a judge makes a ruling, striving sincerely in understanding and applying the correct reasoning*(ijtihad)*and he is correct, then he will have two rewards. If a judge makes a ruling, striving sincerely in understanding and applying the correct reasoning*(ijtihad)and he is mistaken, then he will have one reward.”

Source: Sahih Bukhari 6919, Sahih Muslim 1716
Grade:*Muttafaqun Alayhi*(authenticity agreed upon) according to Al-Bukhari and Muslimعَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ الْعَاصِ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ

صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ*إِذَا حَكَمَ الْحَاكِمُ فَاجْتَهَدَ ثُمَّ أَصَابَ فَلَهُ أَجْرَانِ وَإِذَا*حَكَمَ*فَاجْتَهَدَ ثُمَّ أَخْطَأَ فَلَهُ أَجْرٌ6919 صحيح البخاري كتاب الاعتصام بالكتاب والسنة باب أجر الحاكم إذا اجتهد فأصاب أو أخطأ1716 صحيح مسلم كتاب الأقضية باب بيان أجر الحاكم إذا اجتهد فأصاب أو أخطأ

Have you given up on the idea of virgins already? must be sound incredible to you wherever you live that virgins could exist even on planet earth......

[Search]

Isn't there an islamic imperative to conquer the world for allah and rule the world with sharia which has nothing to do with anything else that has happened or is happening now?

I refer to:
[48.28] He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion that He may make it prevail over all the religions; and Allah is enough for a witness.
[48.29] Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.

Also, isn't one of the ways of achieving this by hijrah, jihad by emigration?

So it matters not about any other supposed or actual reason, other than islamic world rule!

May be I misunderstand the texts, although they seem very clear!

:bism:

This question requires a well-written reply in enough detail for holistic and complete understanding of the ayat (verse), and In-sha-Allah I will do so at the earliest opportunity. K? Thanks for your patience in the meantime.

Take care.

[Search]

:bism:

If a muslim suicide bomber, very devoted and willing to be a martir. Wants to kill dozens of infidels , but due to a malfuntion, the thing explodes before and only him is killed. Does he still get the 72 virgins? Just 36? 18? None?

Hi!

Welcome to the board! Hope you find your stay is beneficial!

Please don't listen to the guy Abz that just replied to you as he supports extremists.

The answer to your question is suicide bombing is haram (forbidden) in Islam.

[Search]

:bism:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

What the?

What are you doing?

Why are you misleading him?

Answer me some questions: Do you have a sheikh? Yes or no?

Have you not read the proofs of scholars saying suicide bombing is haram? Yes or no?

Do you understand that what you are writing will be your witness on Judgment Day? Yes or no?

:) well that would depend on the depth of his knowledge, his sincerity, and his intention.

Amr ibn Al-As reported:
The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “If a judge makes a ruling, striving to apply his reasoning*(ijtihad)*and he is correct, then he will have two rewards. If a judge makes a ruling, striving to apply his reasoning and he is mistaken, then he will have one reward.”

Source: Sahih Bukhari 6919, Sahih Muslim 1716
Grade:*Muttafaqun Alayhi*(authenticity agreed upon) according to Al-Bukhari and Muslimعَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ الْعَاصِ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ

صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ*إِذَا حَكَمَ الْحَاكِمُ فَاجْتَهَدَ ثُمَّ أَصَابَ فَلَهُ أَجْرَانِ وَإِذَا*حَكَمَ*فَاجْتَهَدَ ثُمَّ أَخْطَأَ فَلَهُ أَجْرٌ6919 صحيح البخاري كتاب الاعتصام بالكتاب والسنة باب أجر الحاكم إذا اجتهد فأصاب أو أخطأ1716 صحيح مسلم كتاب الأقضية باب بيان أجر الحاكم إذا اجتهد فأصاب أو أخطأ

Have you given up on the idea of virgins already? must be sound incredible to you wherever you live that virgins could exist even on planet earth......

[Abz2000]

:bism:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

What the?

What are you doing?

Why are you misleading him?

Answer me some questions: Do you have a sheikh? Yes or no?

Have you not read the proofs of scholars saying suicide bombing is haram? Yes or no?

Do you understand that what you are writing will be your witness on Judgment Day? Yes or no?

God knows, the nature of the question merited an answer and i gave him one to ponder on.
Oh btw, have you watched "armageddon"?
You know, the one with bruce willis?
Or the bit in "air force one" where the jet pilot takes the hit of the bomb for beloved prez?
Or maybe "the bodyguard" where costner takes a bullet for houston.
(btw, i edited the translation of the hadith you re-quoted in order to get a better meaning of the term "ijtihaad" which is closer to the truth, can you please edit it?)

I don't think it's right that you interrogate me beyond what is necessary on such a sensitive question.
And this is not a matrimonial site. ;)

[Search]

God knows, the nature of the question merited an answer and i gave him one to ponder on.
Oh btw, have you watched armageddon?
You know, the one with bruce willis?

:bism:

:sl:

Uh, no?

:wa:

[sfontel]

:bism:

Lol, sfontel - who told you that?

From the End of Times' Islamic description, it is clear instead that Muslims and Christians will become united as simply "believers" with the Second Coming of Prophet Jesus/Isa alayhis salaam (peace be upon him). Because currently, the main difference in theology that divide Muslims and Christians is whether Jesus was the son of God, and according to Islam, that is clarified with his return.

As for for the Caliphate, well, according to the End of Times' description, again, it doesn't happen until the pledge of allegiance to Mahdi alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) and the Second Coming of Prophet Jesus/Isa alayhis salaam (peace be upon him).

Judgment Day doesn't happen until much later: Judgment Day doesn't occur until not one person on earth remains remembering Allah (God).

What do you mean by clarified with his return?

GOD Bless!

[Search]

:bism:

If a muslim suicide bomber, very devoted and willing to be a martir. Wants to kill dozens of infidels , but due to a malfuntion, the thing explodes before and only him is killed. Does he still get the 72 virgins? Just 36? 18? None?

Hi!

Nobody bother responding to this guy airetupal! As he's a troll! Flooding the Forum with repeat posts!

So, troll, did Google direct you here?

[Search]

What do you mean by clarified with his return?

GOD Bless!

When Prophet Jesus alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) returns from the Heavens to establish God's Kingdom on earth, there won't be any confusion as to theology as his return will clarify for all that he's only the figurative son of God and not the literal son of God.

Make sense?

[Abz2000]

:bism:



Hi!

Nobody bother responding to this guy airetupal! As he's a troll! Flooding the Forum with repeat posts!

So, troll, did Google direct you here?

Lol, it took you all that to realise? Why didn't you reflect on the nature of his question in order to perceive his malintent?

[Search]

Lol, it took you all that to realise? Why didn't you reflect on the nature of his question in order to perceive his malintent?

Lol - cause it's not so obvious, ya know!

Besides, we're to assume the best of people unless they show us their worst.

[sfontel]

When Prophet Jesus alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) returns from the Heavens to establish God's Kingdom on earth, there won't be any confusion as to theology as his return will clarify for all that he's only the figurative son of God and not the literal son of God.

Make sense?

Or prove the oposit too....

Then Jesus will be the Caliph? For how long? What the intention?

[Abz2000]

Lol - cause it's not so obvious, ya know!

Besides, we're to assume the best of people unless they show us their worst.

Wot, when he asks you if you get 72? 36? 18? On the topic of virgins which every troll from r0bt spe-ncr to pam gelr mentions, it's difficult to perceive how one could not be either joking, or trolling.

[Search]

Wot, when he asks you if you get 72? 36? 18? On the topic of virgins which every troll from r0bt spe-ncr to pam gelr mentions, it's difficult to perceive how one could not be either joking, or trolling.

:bism:

:sl:

Think about it: If you were a non-Muslim, wouldn't you kinda have the same kinds of questions? I know I would. So, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, the famous, or shall I say infamous Islamophobes created these kinda trolls, but mainstream media isn't far behind too, I think. Maybe some of them are curious though? Dunno - just thought he might have a genuine question. (Sighs.) Naive in hindsight though.

:wa:

[Abz2000]

Or prove the oposit too....

Then Jesus will be the Caliph? For how long? What the intention?

If you already have a caliph who is truthfully establishing the rule of God and administering justice with fidelity, he'll most likely stand behind the caliph and help out, if not, he might accept leadership if it's the best way to ensure that the Quran and Sunnah are established with uniform acceptance, since the messiah doubles as a unifying banner that the majority of the planet claim to seek and accept.

[sfontel]

If you already have a caliph who is truthfully establishing the rule of God and administering justice with fidelity, he'll most likely stand behind the caliph and help out, if not, he might accept leadership if it's the best way to ensure that the Quran and Sunnah are established with uniform acceptance, since the messiah doubles as a unifying banner that the majority of the planet claim to seek and accept.

What do you mean..." if you already have a Caliph"....?

[Search]

:bism:

Or prove the oposit too....

Then Jesus will be the Caliph? For how long? What the intention?

I have an entire book written by a scholar on Armageddon. When I have time, I'll leaf through it and give you the proofs and clarify what is written. Right now, though, in my part of the world, I have to catch some z-z-z-zs.

[sfontel]

:bism:



I have an entire book written by a scholar on Armageddon. When I have time, I'll leaf through it and give you the proofs and clarify what is written. Right now, though, in my part of the world, I have to catch some z-z-z-zs.

Ok..lol...thank you and have a good night!

[Abz2000]

What do you mean..." if you already have a Caliph"....?

Some ahadith mention that he will stand behind the imam in prayer when the imam tries to move back to give way, others say that he will accept the offer and lead the prayer, we'll only be certain when we see it happen.
when considering the history of the Prophets from since the days when khilafah was in the hands of the children of Israel we notice that the Prophets rarely took the throne when the king already on the throne was establishing the law of Allah truthfully, and only took it when it was necessary. If all was ok they usually assisted the kings as advisers, if not, they worked as protesters, warring jihadists for the sake of Allah against the infidel kings, or legitimate usurpers of the throne. The weren't after thrones for the sake of thrones, they were here to establish and uphold the kingdom of God on earth - do you expect anything different from the messiah?

[sfontel]

Some ahadith mention that he will stand behind the imam in prayer when the imam tries to move back to give way, others say that he will accept the offer and lead the prayer, we'll only be certain when we see it happen.
when considering the history of the Prophets from since the days when khilafah was in the hands of the children of Israel we notice that the Prophets rarely took the throne when the king already on the throne was establishing the law of Allah truthfully, and only took it when it was necessary. If all was ok they usually assisted the kings as advisers, if not, they worked as protesters, warring jihadists for the sake of Allah against the infidel kings, or legitimate usurpers of the throne. The weren't after thrones for the sake of thrones, they were here to establish and uphold the kingdom of God on earth - do you expect anything different from the messiah?

We believe only the Messaiah can fullfill this....

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this. Isaiah 9:6-7

As child He came to serve now He will come as a King....

What do you think?

God bless!

[Abz2000]

We believe only the Messaiah can fullfill this....

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this. Isaiah 9:6-7

As child He came to serve now He will come as a King....

What do you think?

God bless!

God knows best, main concern should be that all people unite under the laws of God and become brothers and sisters willing to leave their own glory for the sake of God, this prevents injustice and the horrific differences we see in self worship, atheism, man worship, matrix worship, and worship of inanimate objects unable to see, hear, or think - let alone create or guide to what is right.
That's on the worldly level which pertains to matters on the surface, then the spiritual inward level (belief in the heart) is even more important since it concerns eternity, but again, what happens in the world affects what happens in eternity.
The two Islam and imaan would be the main objectives.

[Physicist]

Paid geeks? Certain outfits been running quite a few competitions under the guise of "vulnerability testing" and handing out prizes, all they'd have to do is run a profile on each one and recruit the dumbest smart ones.

Remember fast and furious when the rock dude recruits dominic and crew?

If one want to prevent information leakage, he can offer a good reward for it )

But for the project Anonymous it would be too loud probably. Winners are always attracting attention.
There is a black market in IT, hackers may been recruited there and are not asking questions.

[Leoprecordia]

:bism:

:sl:

Okay, you flatter yourself, bro Abz. The way I see it, you're our IB's "arithmetic man," that is, you add trouble, subtract pleasure, divide attention, and multiply ignorance.

Finally, I don't know why you keep filling in the blank as to my beliefs: If you have questions, ask, and don't assume. I don't believe in the LGBT movement, but then, I have the freedom of choice to not believe in the LGBT movement just as multiple Christian and Jewish communities also don't believe in the same.

That being said, I have already told you that I feel your views extremely un-Islamic and dangerous and of course the modern definition of extremism. Also, what I find ironic about your extremist views is that you haven't taken the time to actually study Islam with Islamic scholars and deride Islamic scholarship that condemns the extremist movement as un-Islamic.

Also, the fact that you don't seem to understand one simply fact makes me not take you seriously altogether, which is that scholars from reading ahadith have come to the conclusion that the Caliphate will not exist until the Second Coming of Prophet Jesus/Isa alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) and the pledge of allegiance to Mahdi alayhis salaam (peace be upon him). Of course, by default, this fact means that ISIS/Daesh/ISIL seeking to create a Caliphate are obviously deluded, and since you support them blindly, and I am left to assume that you are as deluded as them; and your claims of following "authentic" Islam therefore do not stack up against the reality of what you are actually doing, which I can only describe as hate-mongering against innocent peoples of various nations to justify extremists' egoistic need for vengeance against Muslim lives lost elsewhere in the world (as if two wrongs can ever equate a right, harrumph). Also, I abhor your mentality of grouping Muslims as some kind of hypocrites if they do not believe as you because of course you have some God-given insight into people's minds and hearts (sarcasm).

Also, you support the likes of Osama Bin Laden when he did a manifest wrong in declaring and calling for jihad against Western nations as Islam, as per shariatullah (divine laws), does not permit any human being other than a Khalifa or Sultan to declare war; and Osama Bin Laden was a nobody to do what Islam doesn't permit. Also, you clearly ignore a better part of history (because it doesn't suit your narrative of "us versus them"), which comprises of knowing that Arab Muslims were manifestly responsible for conspiring with the British to topple the Ottoman Empire because they didn't like Muslim Turks to have the power on account of the superiority complex of believing that power should rest instead with them as Islam started in Arabia. So, clearly, who is first responsible for the lack of a Caliphate in the world, the Muslims or the non-Muslims? I'd say the former. If Muslims today are an oppressed peoples, they first brought it upon themselves.

Also, if you'd known only a quarter as much about Islamic spirituality as you seem to know about extant conspiracy theories, you'd know that without heavenly support nothing can happen in the world, and therefore the turmoil in Middle East is directly a result of Muslims' actions, or should I say inaction? Today, Muslims are a humiliated peoples because most of them are cultural Muslims and not practicing Muslims. Does Allah SWT support a community that has mostly forgotten Him? Also, why isn't there a theocracy in Muslim countries? Because Muslims themselves didn't support a theocracy and wanted to copy Western nations; so, stop trying to blame people in the West/Western governments when Muslims themselves are clearly to blame.

Finally, I abhor what is happening in Sham, but the ones responsible for the impasse we've reached in the world as status quo are extremists.

Also, you keep asking people, Muslim and non-Muslims, to repent and return to Allah SWT. How about you? Why not include yourself and repent of your un-Islamic belief composed of your unwavering support of extremists who themselves are undoubtedly going to "go down" in ignominy in world's history, not to mention they will also be paid in full for their evil actions on Judgment Day, but are unfortunately trying to take peaceful Muslims everywhere with them?

I'm not sure you understand what peace means, but hey, Quran says to reply to words of the ignorant with the word, "Peace."

So.

Peace.

:wa:

This has to be the realist post I've ever seen in all my years of being on internet forums... and I've been on internet forums for around 20 years.

Sis, thanks for explaining yourself to eloquently. We were all thinking what you said, but you put those thoughts into words far better than the rest of us.

[Abz2000]

Our duty - to sincerely convey the truth. Arguing with emotionally packaged falsehood will not diminish the truth of the Quran in the least, rather it will open the eyes of those who care to read for themselves.
Whaddaya expect me to say? Please baby, don't break my heart, oh oh.
Lol, seek the truth and be judged by Allah.

[sfontel]

Well, you asked me a bunch of questions my friend, but in reality you did not answer the few I had...lol


Anyway, I was wondering this afternoon at work, on what you said about allowing a Caliphate to be establish once again.....and I asked my self....

How many Caliphates does Islam needs in order to figure out that an earthly Kingdom of God is impossible to achive while humans are at front directing!?

Look what Jesus said...

Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”Jo 18:36 NIV

How many more tousands of years do you guys need?

It was intresting to learn from you and Search about how you guys believe about the second coming of Jesus....and how relevant this may be in regards of a Caliphate or Jihad..or not

I also went to this web site in order to read more...I hope you aprove such....When I have to read something I avoid bias...and I go direct to the other side perspective to see how realy is...I hope you do the same!

.islamicperspectives.com/returnofjesus.htm

I think I understood everything..+ what you said and Search...but forgive me if I did not...

Well what all this have to do with Paris, Afheganistan, Iraq....Siria and everything that extremists do?

I would say everything!

Islam as a read, does not have a 100% fix position on what would be a perfect working Caliphate, it has no solid single base understanding....everyone believes diferent....

Some believe like Abz, that a Caliphate will happen before the 2nd coming of Jesus and Jesus will only be a suporter of a aready existing Caliphate I guess...

This position I believe is the position of the Jihads where some will use brutal force to make the Caliphate happen....their ultimatly goal...at least they have a direction...

How much of the Muslams believe this way?


Others like Search believe that it will happend only after Jesus return...but I am not sure, if this position is into the Caliphate ideia...also some like Search are not into violence jihad....

How many believe this way?


And third, as I understood....there is one more position, where the returning of Jesus is inrrelevant....and it may not even be Him, He is just a figure of expression...a simbol....

Also, It could be understood...that everything regarding Jesus is inrrelavant....I mean is not even going to happen....

So whats is what....nobody knows for sure! It reminds me a a biblical verse....

We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6

Man!!!!!! Cant you see how this verse makes so much sense!...

I ask my self, how can you dream at a human utopia????..And dream of a rightly Caliphate?.....A comandment for a caliphate in the current cenario, is a dream just as Markx was for comunists...humans will always be infinitly corrupted my friend...

I am sorry Abz....is right in front of you...but I will give to you "we are all free to dream!"

If I understood Search right....at leat it makes more sense the way she believes...

Also, what makes more sense...

You shall stabilish a Caliphate them the end will come..."by do way you are not done with this yet!"

or..

You shall preach to the end of earth end the end will come...."We are done already!"


A few people here said that there was 4 rigthly Caliphs..I would guess the by that statement you are also all Sunnis?....lol....you make me lol...

So can you achive a "right caliphate" with out Shia contribuing, or Sunnis plan to eliminating the Shia?

Oh thats why...you guys kill each other....

I am sorry all I see is failure on top of failure....

Honestly, its is hard to figure how Islam claims to have a unchaged word of God when they can not agree upon It! Just like Jews and Christians!

If it is unchanged should consequently be unanimous in all bases and teachings....

Now, this is my understanding so far..and I am sorry if I ofended anyone...its not my intention at all...

You probaly notice by my english that I am not American..sorry for this too....lol...I am from America but not from north....so I dont see things quite in a American way.....just saying...

At the same time, I would like to understand what is the issue......

Some times I hear the argument that Muslams are furious becouse of the invasion of Muslam lands....

I understand....but before it "belong" to muslams it actualy belonged to somebody else that belonged to somebody else....matter fact I believe the all belong to God and not us, we are just users....but whatever...

And is probaly logical.....If...If....you took land from someone weakier then you at some time ago...and you claimed to be God's will....How can you complain if somebody stronger than you show up and take if from you now? Is it that the will of God working again?...other wise could He not intervine and save from such as He always did in the OT in regards of Israel?

I mean....before Muslams...its probaly safe to say that the lands were house of Christians majorits...

What to say of all the battles the Egypt went trough to become a Muslam...or many others...its easy learn just google


I apologize for the Cruzaders....it was just that! Cruzaders!...following a popemancy! Nothing to do with the NT....or the OT for that matter...

Christians dont need an earthly kingdom right now...Jesus told us not to be illusive with such in this era....

We dont need todays Jerusalem for nothing...we dont need America, we Christians want the Jerusalem the come from above!..Its in Revelation! and we want to leave in peace until that day...

"What would matter to man to gain the whole world and loose his or her soul"

He also told us..

“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Mt 5:11-12 NIV

There are many other verses like this..but always with the same out come...We will be persecuted for the sake of His name....

“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. Jo 15:18 NIV


I totaly understand the complain over the lands of Palestine and Gaza...and etc...and I think its fair...

But Chriatians are dying all the time all over the world too and there no outcry....


The Israelis got kicked out from the land in the year 70 CE more or less by the Romans....I believe is safe to say....that would be hard to indentify who was in the land before them...

They got stronger and returned....by reading history it seems that this was a turning point for Islam as far as terrorist attacks goes...

Also I would like to make a comment regarding this...

One of the parts of the web site that I mention above, the Dr. goes on to say that Christians and Jews plan to destroy the mosque at the top of the mauntain...where the temple mount use to be I guess....

Lol.....I never heard such tale....and never heard a Christian fellow say such thing!...lol....

Maybe Popemancy goverments....Israel some how....but not true Christians....

It is true that in scriputure, the Temple have to be rebuilt....but also says that would be under no stress to anybody....meaning, in no way would inflict aflictions on Muslams or on anybody...
We believe such task will be achivied by the white horse...the ant Christ as the NT says....and for Christians is a matter of supernatural faith if I could say...and not by demostration of force.....


How the white horse will manage to do this making peacefull....is a good question!? But rest assure that Christian dont need, nither the temple or Jerusalem for nothing in this earthly era.....

Finalizing my long coment.....Its only logical to believe that, in order Muslams to set a new Caliphate, aperently you guys need to set the diferences with in Islam....as some branchs of Jews and Christians also did....

The west somehow achived a good degree of peace....we settle separatists, Irland calm down, toguether with England...Catholics left Evangelicals alone.....

Not perfect but....I cant complain!

So will the west sit while they get blamed for the Islamic division and get terrozided at same time?

That will hardly happen!

I believe the question to Muslams is:

Are you sure Surah Al-Anam 6:159 applies only to Jews and Christians?...lol

Are not Islam today subject to this very verse?????

Is it possible for Islam to settle their diferences?

I believe its the only way to stop terrorism....

Let me know if I am wrong....

God bless!

[Abz2000]

No point comparing me with "search" in order to find middle ground - better you read the Quran and Seerah for yourself,
I don't change my fundamental stances by basing them upon what the corrupt media or the media controlled zombies may say every season, i judge the strengt and validity of the words of the media and people around me based on Allah's words in the Quran and what He teaches.

Nor do i respect myself based upon how media mind controlled sheeple might perceive me, they'd disown me on the day of judgement and we'd be casting the blame at each other like a prickly grenade, just as they cast the chemicals in our brain around like a football on earth.
Interesting how, until this day, nobody other than the Muslims can show a way of life that can be defined and which they attempt to collectively adhere to.
No point throwing falsehhod at me in order to try and get me to dodge and dance like an idiot, because falsehod doesn't hold any weight on the balance even against a grain's weight of truth. It is better that we come together upon the teuth with sincerity and humility, or that we part ways.

Kamathal asshaytaani idh qaala li al insaan ukfur,
falamma kafara qaala innee baree un minka innee akhaaf Allaha rabbal 'aalameen.


It is better that we respect ourselves by what Allah has shown us to be respectable, even those who are currently infidels know it to be the most truthful and elevated way. Don't walk around like a poof or tart, or even the kuffar will snigg&r at you.

Nahnu qawmun a'azanaAllahu bil Islam.
In ibtaghytana al 'izzata min dooni al Islaam,
Azallana Allah.



Cameron and a few of their cronies from the international crime syndicate are now parroting Bush's and Blair's deceptions about how their unlawful and murderous corporate forays are going to make you safe, you'll know soon InshaAllah the extent of the mess that they're and have been getting you into:

Former MI5 chief demolishes Blair's defence of the Iraq war

Tony Blair's evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry that toppling Saddam Hussein helped make Britain safe from terrorists was dramatically undermined by the former head of MI5 yesterday.
Giving evidence to the same inquiry, Eliza Manningham-Buller revealed that there was such a surge of warnings of home-grown terrorist threats after the invasion of Iraq that MI5 asked for – and got – a 100 per cent increase in its budget. Baroness Manningham-Buller, who was director general of MI5 in 2002-07, told the Chilcot panel that MI5 started receiving a "substantially" higher volume of reports that young British Muslims being drawn to al-Qa'ida.

She told the inquiry: "Our involvement in Iraq radicalised, for want of a better word, a whole generation of young people – a few among a generation – who saw our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan as being an attack on Islam."

She added: "Arguably we gave Osama bin Laden his Iraqi jihad so that he was able to move into Iraq in a way that he was not before."Her words are in stark contrast to the claim that Mr Blair made in front of the same inquiry on 29 January. The former prime minister told Sir John Chilcot: "If I am asked whether I believe we are safer, more secure, that Iraq is better, that our own security is better, with Saddam and his two sons out of office and out of power, I believe indeed we are."
It was better to deal with this threat, to remove him from office, and I do genuinely believe that the world is safer as a result."But the evidence presented by Lady Manningham-Buller does not just call Mr Blair's credibility into question, it also throws down a challenge to the coalition Government, warned Lord Carlile of Berriew, a Liberal Democrat peer who has acted since 2005 as the independent reviewer of anti-terror laws. He told The Independent: "It's certainly the case that the threat and number of home-grown terrorists – and 'not home-grown' terrorists coming into the UK – increased after the Iraq war.

"This makes life difficult both for the old government, who have criticisms to answer, and for the current Government. It makes their review of current terrorism law a delicate exercise because there is no evidence of any significant reduction in the threat. We are where we were."

Sir Menzies Campbell, former leader of the Liberal Democrats, added: "I should be astonished if Mr Blair were to return to give further evidence, but questions will remain as to what it was which prompted him to disregard the reservations of officials and their advice. If only Britain had been as well served by its politicians as it was by Eliza Manningham-Buller then we would never have got ourselves into the illegal mess of Iraq."
Lord West, who was counter-terrorism minister in the Home Office under Gordon Brown, told the BBC that he had "no doubt" that the Iraq war increased the threat of terrorism in the UK, which hit the government like a "bow wave" in 2003.
Ken Livingstone, who was Mayor of London at the time of the 7 July bombings, said: "Eliza Manningham-Buller's evidence is a dam*ing indictment of a foreign policy that not only significantly enhanced the risk of terrorist attacks in London but gave al-Qa'ida the opening to operate in Iraq too."Before 2003, MI5's concern had been the possibility that foreign terrorists would infiltrate the UK. Afterwards, she said: "We realised that the focus was not foreigners. The rising and increasing threat was a threat from British citizens and that was a very different scenario to stopping people coming in. It was what has now become called home-grown."
She added: "We were pretty well swamped – that's possibly an exaggeration – but we were very overburdened with intelligence on a broad scale that was pretty well more than we could cope with in terms of plots, leads to plots and things that we needed to pursue."
By 2003 I found it necessary to ask the Prime Minister for a doubling of our budget. This is unheard of, but he and the Treasury and the Chancellor accepted that because I was able to demonstrate the scale of the problem."The Chilcot panel published a previously classified document which showed that the former MI5 boss was not simply being wise after the event. A year before British troops went into Iraq, she sent the Home Office a memo which – though phrased in official language – demolished the idea that Saddam Hussein's regime represented a credible terrorist threat to the UK.
In a memo to John Gieve, Permanent Secretary to the Home Office, in March 2002, Lady Manningham-Buller told him that Saddam was not likely to use chemical or biological weapons unless "he felt the survival of his regime was in doubt".

The memo went on: "We assess that Iraqi capability to mount attacks in the UK is currently limited."Lady Manningham-Buller also hinted at tension between Mr Blair's office and MI5 over the dossier that the Prime Minister presented to Parliament in September 2002, to prepare public opinion for the likelihood of war."We were asked to put in some low-grade, small intelligence to it and we refused because we didn't think it was reliable," she said.Evidence: What he said – and what she saidFalse claims of links between al-Qa'ida and Saddam Hussein

Tony Blair claimed on 21 Jan 2003:"There is some intelligence evidence about loose links between al-Qa'ida and various people in Iraq... It would not be correct to say there is no evidence whatever of linkages between al-Qa'ida and Iraq."

Foreign Office spokesman claimed on 29 Jan 2003:"We believe that there have been, and still are, some al-Qa'ida operatives in parts of Iraq controlled by Baghdad. It is hard to imagine that they are there without the knowledge and acquiescence of the Iraqi government."Eliza Manningham-Buller, former head of MI5, yesterday:"There was no credible intelligence to suggest that connection and that was the judgment, I might say, of the CIA."Hand-picking flimsy 'intelligence'

Blair, to the Commons 24 Sept 2002:"It [the intelligence service] concludes that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes; and that he is actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability..."

Blair, to the Commons 25 Feb 2003:"The intelligence is clear: He [Saddam] continues to believe his WMD programme is essential both for internal repression and for external aggression. The biological agents we believe Iraq can produce include anthrax, botulinum, toxin, aflatoxin and ricin. All eventually result in excruciatingly painful death.

"Manningham-Buller, yesterday:"The nature of intelligence – it is a source of information, it is rarely complete, it needs to be assessed, it is fragmentary... We were asked to put in some low-grade, small intelligence to it [the September 2002 dossier] and we refused because we didn't think it was reliable."
Iraq posed no risk to Britain
Blair, to the Commons 10 April 2002:"Saddam Hussein is developing weapons of mass destruction, and we cannot leave him doing so unchecked. He is a threat to his own people and to the region and, if allowed to develop these weapons, a threat to us also."Manningham-Buller, yesterday:"We regarded the direct threat from Iraq as low... we didn't believe he had the capability to do anything in the UK."Ministers were told that invading Iraq would increase the threat of terrorism to Britain

Blair, farewell speech at the Labour conference, 26 September 2006:"This terrorism isn't our fault. We didn't cause it. It's not the consequence of foreign policy."Manningham-Buller, yesterday:"It was communicated through the JIC assessments, to which I fed in... I believe they [senior ministers] did read them. If they read them, they can have had no doubt."The Iraq war made Britain a more dangerous place and allowed al-Qa'ida to gain a hold in IraqBlair, 29 Jan 2010:"If I am asked whether I believe we are safer, more secure, that Iraq is better, that our own security is better, I believe we are. The world is safer as a result."

Manningham-Buller, yesterday:
"Our involvement in Iraq radicalised a generation of young people who saw our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan as an attack on Islam. We [MI5] were pretty well swamped... with intelligence on a broad scale that was pretty well more than we could cope with in terms of plots, leads to plots and things that we needed to pursue."We gave Osama bin Laden his Iraqi jihad so that he was able to move into Iraq in a way that he was not before.

The post-Iraq plots7/7 bombers - 2005
The bombs detonated on London Underground trains and a bus in July 2005 killed 52 members of the public and injured around 700. Three of the four suicide bombers had been born in Yorkshire; the fourth, born in Jamaica, came to the UK aged five. In his video, one bomber said: "Your democratically elected governments continuously perpetuate atrocities."

London Haymarket/Glasgow Airport attacks – 2007
Bilal Abdulla, a doctor, and Kafeel Ahmed, a PhD engineering student, tried and failed to set off bombs outside a

London nightclub on 29 June. The following day they drove a jeep filled with gas canisters into Glasgow Airport. Abdulla's trial heard his involvement was "because of events in Iraq".

Liquid bomb plot – 2006
A terror plot was exposed in which liquid bombs were to be smuggled on to airliners. Many of the men made 'suicide' videos citing British foreign policy. Umar Islam said in his video: "If you think you can go into our land and do what you are doing in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine and... think it will not come back on to your doorstep, you have another thing coming."


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...r-2031289.html

But Then It Was Too Late

"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know, it doesn’t make people close to their government to be told that this is a people’s government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing, to do with*knowing*one is governing."

What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it."This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.

"You will understand me when I say that my Middle High German was my life. It was all I cared about. I was a scholar, a specialist. Then, suddenly, I was plunged into all the new activity, as the university was drawn into the new situation; meetings, conferences, interviews, ceremonies, and, above all, papers to be filled out, reports, bibliographies, lists, questionnaires. And on top of that were the demands in the community, the things in which one had to, was ‘expected to’ participate that had not been there or had not been important before. It was all rigmarole, of course, but it consumed all one’s energies, coming on top of the work one really wanted to do. You can see how easy it was, then, not to think about fundamental things. One had no time.""Those," I said, "are the words of my friend the baker. ‘One had no time to think. There was so much going on.’"

"Your friend the baker was right," said my colleague. "The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all*diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway. I do not speak of your ‘little men,’ your baker and so on; I speak of my colleagues and myself, learned men, mind you. Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.


.....


You will notice clearly how eloquently the brother describes the events and if you have a pondering mind, you'll wonder why the bush and buddy administrations clamped down on the ability of the tv media to get open interviews and air them while at the same time giving you skewed and totally false interpretations of his words, "oh he hates you for your freedoms that we give you" lol.

Look at the "scary" things he says:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjXGOluWSR0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqQwnqjA-6w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9Rwo-Oicj8

[Pygoscelis]

Muslims worldwide are against extremists and terrorists. Full Stop. Period. Dot. However, whether the extremists and terrorists are out of the folds of Islam, is not the judgment domain of the Muslim layperson but Islamic scholars. So, calling an extremist or terrorist a "brother" is not actually endorsing the extremists' position.

Why can't we all just call each other "brother" and "sister"? Why can't we recognize ourselves as one family in humanity? :)

[Pygoscelis]

:) well that would depend on the depth of his knowledge, his sincerity, and his intention.

Amr ibn Al-As reported:
The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said,
“If a judge makes a ruling, striving sincerely in understanding and applying the correct reasoning*(ijtihad)*and he is correct, then he will have two rewards. If a judge makes a ruling, striving sincerely in understanding and applying the correct reasoning*(ijtihad)and he is mistaken, then he will have one reward.”

Source: Sahih Bukhari 6919, Sahih Muslim 1716
Grade:*Muttafaqun Alayhi*(authenticity agreed upon) according to Al-Bukhari and Muslimعَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ الْعَاصِ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ

صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ*إِذَا حَكَمَ الْحَاكِمُ فَاجْتَهَدَ ثُمَّ أَصَابَ فَلَهُ أَجْرَانِ وَإِذَا*حَكَمَ*فَاجْتَهَدَ ثُمَّ أَخْطَأَ فَلَهُ أَجْرٌ6919 صحيح البخاري كتاب الاعتصام بالكتاب والسنة باب أجر الحاكم إذا اجتهد فأصاب أو أخطأ1716 صحيح مسلم كتاب الأقضية باب بيان أجر الحاكم إذا اجتهد فأصاب أو أخطأ

Have you given up on the idea of virgins already? must be sound incredible to you wherever you live that virgins could exist even on planet earth......

So... to be clear... as this question comes up a lot in conversations between non-muslims... is the 72 virgins thing legit and taken in any way seriously by Islam or is that just something islamophobes use to insult Muslims with?

[Abz2000]

So... to be clear... as this question comes up a lot in conversations between non-muslims... is the 72 virgins thing legit and taken in any way seriously by Islam or is that just something islamophobes use to insult Muslims with?

I haven't as of yet found a reliable source mentioning it, i did however happen to notice that verse 72 of chapter 55 mentions the virgin maidens of paradise, now whether it's really 72, or someone accidentally read it as 72 when reading - God knows best.
To the poser of the question, i'd say: "it could be 72, 144, or even 720, why halve or quarter it if your intention is good mate :)

[Abz2000]

Why can't we all just call each other "brother" and "sister"? Why can't we recognize ourselves as one family in humanity? :)

We can.
When we are all united upon the truth and are willing to humbly submit to the true authority in our differences.
Otherwise you'd be saying oh it's all the same, follow whatever you want to follow, do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, whether you believe in one God, or loads, or none, believe in the Prophets, or some, or call them all liars, whether you like to follow the law of kennedy, or nixon, or reagan, or clinton, or obama, or hitler, or the pope, or blair, or thatcher or campbell, or mussolini, or hasina, or khaleda, or ershad, or uncle tom or sally soccermom, whether you form a group in china and a group in russia, and a group in europe and a group in north america and a group in south america, and a group in india, and a group in okinawa, and a group in my little village in bangladesh which is connected to the european continent and china and russia, and connected to the isles called britain and the isles called australia and the isles called america via water - it is all the same. The debri in the van allen belt and the poison in the oceans is too worrisome to think about, and even if we try to get together and discuss it and then fall into disagreement, the law of the jungle will prevail anyway.
But know that if you wish to resort to strength over intellect - that Allah is exalted in power and able to excercise His will.

[Search]

:bism:

So... to be clear... as this question comes up a lot in conversations between non-muslims... is the 72 virgins thing legit and taken in any way seriously by Islam or is that just something islamophobes use to insult Muslims with?

I'd say both:

In a prophetic tradition, it is relayed that a true martyr (not our modern-day terrorist/extremist) will be given maidens of Paradise alongside other rewards like being able to intercede for 70 of his relatives, forgiveness of sins, safety from the fear that will overtake peoples on Judgment Day, protection from punishment in the grave, et cetera.

Similar to how we as Americans honor and pay tribute to our army men when they lose their lives fighting for our country and our people. In that same way, God also chooses to honor heroes that sacrifice themselves in appointed honorable cause for God's sake.

Now, consider, if a person who wasn't an army man went out in another country and killed people, would he be honored? No.

That is why my present sheikh (Islamic teacher) (may Allah bless him) always reminds all Muslims and non-Muslims of the prophetic tradition wherein a "matryr" will appear before God, and God will ask him what he did for God to merit Paradise, and he will say I died for You. And God will say that you lie and that person will be thrown into hell-fire. That prophetic tradition is what my sheikh (may Allah bless him) has repeatedly said describes the so-called wannabe "matryrs" (that is, terrorists/extremists) of today who kill out of vengeance, hatred, diseased hearts, greed, or ego and not for God.

Also, there's a very excellent treatise called Jihad, Terrorism, and Suicide Perspective, which debunks the rashness and stupidity of anyone believing that modern-day extremists or terrorists are waging jihad; they're not. Instead, they are killing innocent people and in the process displeasing God, and I can only hope there's divine swift retribution of the evil they're perpetrating in this life, and I'm not concerned about the next world (for God will definitely repay them for their evil bloodlust).

Islamophobes definitely use the specific aforementioned prophetic tradition to insult Muslims, but Islam is taken holistically and not in parts; the Islamophobes take parts and forget the rest like the extremists/terrorists of the world who are just as idiotically motivated; actually, both groups, extremists'/terrorists' approach and Islamophobes' approach to Islam is very similar wherein it's a cut-and-paste DIY job. Of course, both ignore Islam's actual position on the matter, and also ignore the proofs that scholars worldwide by consensus use to say that they are wrong and misguided and misinformed.

[M.I.A.]

https://youtu.be/Ab6fdoCkZTA

[ardianto]

Why can't we all just call each other "brother" and "sister"? Why can't we recognize ourselves as one family in humanity? :)

There is brotherhood in faith, there is brotherhood in nationality, there is brotherhood in humanity.

You cannot be my brother in faith because you are not Muslim. You cannot be my brother in nationality because you are not Indonesian. But just like me, you are a human too. So, we are brother in humanity.

But unfortunately there are religious people, not only Muslims, who believe that the only brotherhood is in faith. I think you know about it Pygo because maybe you have ever experienced which some people see you as enemy just because you are not in their faith.

[Pygoscelis]

We can.

That's great!

When we are all united upon the truth and are willing to humbly submit to the true authority in our differences.

Oh. Not so great then. You are saying we can't live and let live in peace as a family of humanity unless we all bow to you and your way of thinking? So even if we in the west managed to convince all of our governments and other people here to stop interfering in Muslim lands, you'd still want to come and dominate us and make us bow to your ways? That would kind of justify said western inteference in your lands, would it not?

But know that if you wish to resort to strength over intellect - that Allah is exalted in power and able to excercise His will.

Strength over intellect? Are you so egotistical that you proclaim your way to be the only intellectual way? Or am I misreading?

[Pygoscelis]

In a prophetic tradition, it is relayed that a true martyr (not our modern-day terrorist/extremist) will be given maidens of Paradise alongside other rewards

So human beings and sexuality really are promised as booty and reward and this is still believed in today? We see something similar in the Christian Bible, but I don't think many Christians still look at those passages and see women as a reward. Does the opposite also hold true? Do women who are true martyrs get hunks of Paradise alongside other rewards?

[Pygoscelis]

But unfortunately there are religious people, not only Muslims, who believe that the only brotherhood is in faith. I think you know about it Pygo because maybe you have ever experienced which some people see you as enemy just because you are not in their faith.

True, you need only look a few posts upstream to see it. And it isn't unique to Islam. It is part of the prejudice and tribalism and us vs them thinking that sadly comes with being human.

[Abz2000]

That's great!

Glad you saw sense

Oh. Not so great then. You are saying we can't live and let live in peace as a family of humanity unless we all bow to you and your way of thinking? So even if we in the west managed to convince all of our governments and other people here to stop interfering in Muslim lands, you'd still want to come and dominate us and make us bow to your ways? That would kind of justify said western inteference in your lands, would it not?

Oh.....appears you were just pretending....
Pygo we've had this conversation a few years back and you said something almost identical, when given a clear answer you faded away and didn't come back to the thread until the topic had morphed.
I clearly told you that it is the way of the Creator of the heavens and the earth, my Lord and your Lord, my sustainer and your sustainer. And i explained how i myself have to discipline myself and disregard whimsical tendencies in order to walk straight upon it. I can see that by painting it falsely as "mine" you can attempt to mirror it with "yours", it is however nonsensical to do so because it would result in global anarchy.

The psychology is described without ambiguity here:

And they were not divided until after the knowledge came unto them, through rivalry among themselves; and had it not been for a Word that had already gone forth from thy Lord for an appointed term, it surely had been judged between them. And those who were made to inherit the Scripture after them are verily in hopeless doubt concerning it.
Quran 42:14




Time is of the essence - repent and walk aright.

Strength over intellect? Are you so egotistical that you proclaim your way to be the only intellectual way? Or am I misreading?

Again, me me me....sigh.
it's God's guidance, and He has a lot more intellect than you, me and everyone else combined.


Say: If there had been (other) gods with Him, as they say,- behold, they would certainly have sought out a way to the Lord of the Throne!
Quran 17:42


Can you not see the truth, sense and harmony of what is being presented?

[Search]

:bism:

Critics of Islam have look at the concept of "Houris" (translated as "maidens" though they are not human and are said to be unlike anything we can imagine in this world because our imagination is in limits) and criticized the sensual nature of Paradise.

So, first, before I address your question, I'd like to further clarify the matter:

Not only martyrs but also ordinary everyday men who practice constant istighfar (asking forgiveness from God) are given Houris too and also any men who have worked for Paradise by following the proscriptions in Islam at the cost of their nafs (ego). However, there's a prophetic tradition that I noted above promises specifically Houris to martyrs alongside other rewards (which notably Islamophobes use against Muslims as a form of "insult").

In Islam, as you may note, men and women are forbidden to engage in any premarital intimacy with the opposite gender before marriage. Islamic scholars note that one of the differences between angels and human beings is the nafs (ego). Islamic scholars say that if God had not put nafs inside of man, none of us would care about eating or engaging in physical intimacy with the opposite sex as we'd only be busy with God's remembrance. So, any person who succeeds in God's remembrance despite the obstacle that nafs and dominates the nafs in this world is given an awesome reward in the next world (and one of the rewards God has relayed is Houris for men). Also, Paradise, despite its sensual pleasures, like eating tasty foods and other physical pleasures, is filled with God's remembrance and adoration and in fact that remembrance and adoration is omnipresent in all heavenly activities.

Well, as to what women get in Paradise, again, Islamic scholars say that females are honored too. And any person in Paradise gets whatever they want - so, it could be anything that in this instance the female martyr wants, and what God can give can't be said to be limited by humans as divine honor has no beginning nor end. For example, a prophetic tradition relays that there was a farmer and he loved to cultivate land. So, he asks God to give him land to cultivate in Paradise. For that farmer, that was what he wished, and so God grants him that wish. So, anything is possible, and no one can limit what is possible, given that for God anything is possible.

That said, I have not come across any prophetic tradition noting what females get; and so all we know is that females get what will equally make them happy. And I should note that your question is very male, and perhaps even coming from the notion that believing females would want perhaps the same things as men? To be perfectly honest, I don't believe that's the case; and in fact perhaps getting the same thing as men would get would be oppressive as what women want and men want are different even in dunya (this world). For example, believing men, due the aforesaid nafs (ego), might have the desires for many women in dunya (this world) even if they refrain from acting on that nafs' (ego's) desire. However, despite the nafs (ego) present in believing women, I'm fairly confident they only desire to be loved by one man, Mr. Right a.k.a. their Prince Charming, if you will, not by many "hunks."

Now, let's reverse and play a hypothetical scenario: You tell me, imagine, God can grant you any wish in Paradise? You want a car, say. So, you ask God for a car in Heaven. But is that car honor for you in Heaven?

My sheikh (Islamic teacher) (may Allah bless him) taught that while Houris and other rewards are given to people of Paradise, it is not real honor for mankind to ask God for that, but that God gives human beings those things because of their sacrifices made in dunya (this world). My sheikh (Islamic teacher) (may Allah bless him) used to say that mankind should instead ask for God himself and God's endless pleasure as that is real honor.

There are levels in Paradises; and man acquires what he wants but this is according to his intentions in dunya (this world), and if he intended to get rewards and booty in Paradise, then that's what he will get.

However, there is the other type of man, that recognizes real honor is not to get these rewards and booty but be with the Owner of All and Author of All Rewards and Booty. That type of man, to give him rewards and booty in Paradise, is to throw him in prison because that man was not in love with the "things" of the world and is also not in love with the "things" of Paradise. Instead, the man is in love with the Owner of Paradise. So, the only honor for this type of man is then to be given the honor to be with God all the time and it is this type of man endlessly favored and honored by God.

Is what I've written above believed to be true to today? Of course.

So human beings and sexuality really are promised as booty and reward and this is still believed in today? We see something similar in the Christian Bible, but I don't think many Christians still look at those passages and see women as a reward. Does the opposite also hold true? Do women who are true martyrs get hunks of Paradise alongside other rewards?

[Pygoscelis]

Pygo we've had this conversation a few years back and you said something almost identical, when given a clear answer you faded away and didn't come back to the thread until the topic had morphed.
I clearly told you that it is the way of the Creator of the heavens and the earth, my Lord and your Lord, my sustainer and your sustainer. And i explained how i myself have to discipline myself and disregard whimsical tendencies in order to walk straight upon it. I can see that by painting it falsely as "mine" you can attempt to mirror it with "yours", it is however nonsensical to do so because it would result in global anarchy.

The psychology is described without ambiguity here:

And they were not divided until after the knowledge came unto them, through rivalry among themselves; and had it not been for a Word that had already gone forth from thy Lord for an appointed term, it surely had been judged between them. And those who were made to inherit the Scripture after them are verily in hopeless doubt concerning it.
Quran 42:14

You say you give a clear answer but then you give me such airy language. Do you or do you not take the intention of dominating and/or destroying others and other ways of life? And if you do, then does that not justify people who hold such other ways of life dear to dominate and/or destroy you and your way of life before you do it to them? If so, then why do you complain about western aggression so often? You appear to justify it.

Can you not see the truth, sense and harmony of what is being presented?

No. I really can't. And that does not make me dishonest, senseless or disharmonious. Nor does it make me or anyone else who disagrees with you unintelligent.

And yes, I say you, and not God, because from my point of view this is coming from you, and not God, since your God is a creation of your mind. And not only that, but what you say of you God and what he wants is very different than what other people say of their God(s) and what he/she/it/they want, including other people who call themselves Muslims, even in this very thread. To me, all of these Gods are creations of your minds, and you are all speaking your minds and your views in the context of theology.

That is fine with me, and I don't seek to offend anybody or dominate/destroy them or their beliefs, so long as they don't seek to dominate or destroy me or mine. Some religious people seem to be able to handle that and co-exist peacefully. You don't appear to be one of them. I would like to be wrong about that. Am I?

[sfontel]

You say you give a clear answer but then you give me such airy language. Do you or do you not take the intention of dominating and/or destroying others and other ways of life? And if you do, then does that not justify people who hold such other ways of life dear to dominate and/or destroy you and your way of life before you do it to them? If so, then why do you complain about western aggression so often? You appear to justify it.



No. I really can't. And that does not make me dishonest, senseless or disharmonious. Nor does it make me or anyone else who disagrees with you unintelligent.

And yes, I say you, and not God, because from my point of view this is coming from you, and not God, since your God is a creation of your mind. And not only that, but what you say of you God and what he wants is very different than what other people say of their God(s) and what he/she/it/they want, including other people who call themselves Muslims, even in this very thread. To me, all of these Gods are creations of your minds, and you are all speaking your minds and your views in the context of theology.

That is fine with me, and I don't seek to offend anybody or dominate/destroy them or their beliefs, so long as they don't seek to dominate or destroy me or mine. Some religious people seem to be able to handle that and co-exist peacefully. You don't appear to be one of them. I would like to be wrong about that. Am I?

I agree with most of what you said....except that God is something from our imagination...Lol...

God exists my friend....There is doubt in my heart...but we all need to seek by our selfs in order to find it.....

As far as I know you are on track! Keep looking! Rev. 3:20!

God bless!

[Abz2000]

:bism:

Critics of Islam have look at the concept of "Houris" (translated as "maidens" though they are not human and are said to be unlike anything we can imagine in this world because our imagination is in limits) and criticized the sensual nature of Paradise.

So, first, before I address your question, I'd like to further clarify the matter:

Not only martyrs but also ordinary everyday men who practice constant istighfar (asking forgiveness from God) are given Houris too and also any men who have worked for Paradise by following the proscriptions in Islam at the cost of their nafs (ego). However, there's a prophetic tradition that I noted above promises specifically Houris to martyrs alongside other rewards (which notably Islamophobes use against Muslims as a form of "insult").

Better to describe what is true rather than what those who ungratefully and unlawfully show infidelity to God say that is wrong, as it appears that they occupy a large portion of the forefront of one's mind.

In Islam, as you may note, men and women are forbidden to engage in any premarital intimacy with the opposite gender before marriage. Islamic scholars note that one of the differences between angels and human beings is the nafs (ego). Islamic scholars say that if God had not put nafs inside of man, none of us would care about eating or engaging in physical intimacy with the opposite sex as we'd only be busy with God's remembrance. So, any person who succeeds in God's remembrance despite the obstacle that nafs and dominates the nafs in this world is given an awesome reward in the next world (and one of the rewards God has relayed is Houris for men). Also, Paradise, despite its sensual pleasures, like eating tasty foods and other physical pleasures, is filled with God's remembrance and adoration and in fact that remembrance and adoration is omnipresent in all heavenly activities.

Paradise is the eternal reward after passing of the worldly tests, retirement from work with a high stipend and full benefits in this world is the reward after the worldly test, unlike getting a high paid job after studying hard whilst others play and get drunk. However, by the time most people are retiring from work in this world, they're too old to really get to enjoy it as a 25 year old would.

Well, as to what women get in Paradise, again, Islamic scholars say that females are honored too. And any person in Paradise gets whatever they want - so, it could be anything that in this instance the female martyr wants, and what God can give can't be said to be limited by humans as divine honor has no beginning nor end. For example, a prophetic tradition relays that there was a farmer and he loved to cultivate land. So, he asks God to give him land to cultivate in Paradise. For that farmer, that was what he wished, and so God grants him that wish. So, anything is possible, and no one can limit what is possible, given that for God anything is possible.

Whereas humans do not know, God knows best exactly what humans will get, some of it has been described in worldly terms for the human mind to comprehend, however God has explained to us that the rewards are what no eye has seen and no mind can perceive.
There is absolutely no need to hypothesize and conjecture about orgies when no such information has been provided.

(1) Abu Huraira reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying that: Allah the Exalted and Glorious, said: I have prepared for My pious servants which no eye has ever seen, and no ear has ever heard, and no human heart has ever perceived but it is testified by the Book of Allah. He then recited:" No soul knows what comfort has been concealed from them, as a reward for what they did". (xxxii. 17) (Book #040, Hadith #6780)

(2) Abu Huraira reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, said: I have prepared for My pious servants which no eye (has ever) seen, no ear has (ever) heard and no human heart has ever perceived those bounties leaving apart (those bounties) about which Allah has informed you. (Book #040, Hadith #6781)

(3) Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said that Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, said: I have prepared for My pious servants which the eye has seen not, and the ear has heard not and no human heart has ever perceived such bounties leaving aside those about which Allah has informed you. He then recited:" No soul knows what comfort has been hidden for thein". (Book #040, Hadith #6782)
Muslim

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=9720

That said, I have not come across any prophetic tradition noting what females get; and so all we know is that females get what will equally make them happy. And I should note that your question is very male, and perhaps even coming from the notion that believing females would want perhaps the same things as men? To be perfectly honest, I don't believe that's the case; and in fact perhaps getting the same thing as men would get would be oppressive as what women want and men want are different even in dunya (this world). For example, believing men, due the aforesaid nafs (ego), might have the desires for many women in dunya (this world) even if they refrain from acting on that nafs' (ego's) desire. However, despite the nafs (ego) present in believing women, I'm fairly confident they only desire to be loved by one man, Mr. Right a.k.a. their Prince Charming, if you will, not by many "hunks."

It doesn't mean that if a man or woman did have perverted inclinations or satanic waswas in this world, that God would create the same in paradise, therefore the reasoning provided doesn't hold to scrutiny. Again, i say: God knows best.

Now, let's reverse and play a hypothetical scenario: You tell me, imagine, God can grant you any wish in Paradise? You want a car, say. So, you ask God for a car in Heaven. But is that car honor for you in Heaven?

Someone might want to race their friends, then they might ask for skills according to their skills in dunya.
Talking about such is safer than talking about orgies of which there is absolutely no knowledge.

My sheikh (Islamic teacher) (may Allah bless him) taught that while Houris and other rewards are given to people of Paradise, it is not real honor for mankind to ask God for that, but that God gives human beings those things because of their sacrifices made in dunya (this world). My sheikh (Islamic teacher) (may Allah bless him) used to say that mankind should instead ask for God himself and God's endless pleasure as that is real honor.

There are levels in Paradises; and man acquires what he wants but this is according to his intentions in dunya (this world), and if he intended to get rewards and booty in Paradise, then that's what he will get.

However, there is the other type of man, that recognizes real honor is not to get these rewards and booty but be with the Owner of All and Author of All Rewards and Booty. That type of man, to give him rewards and booty in Paradise, is to throw him in prison because that man was not in love with the "things" of the world and is also not in love with the "things" of Paradise. Instead, the man is in love with the Owner of Paradise. So, the only honor for this type of man is then to be given the honor to be with God all the time and it is this type of man endlessly favored and honored by God.

Did your sheikh ever tell you to do your best to provide sources where possible? Especially on issues of contention?
Sort of like providing a hadith with a link, or a verse with a link, a sultuaan, rather than just claiming kadha wa kadha.

Verily, those who dispute about the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah, without any authority having come to them, there is nothing else in their breasts except pride [to accept you (Muhammad SAW) as a Messenger of Allah and to obey you]. They will never have it (i.e. Prophethood which Allah has bestowed upon you). So seek refuge in Allah (O Muhammad SAW from the arrogants). Verily, it is He Who is the All- Hearer, the All-Seer.
Quran 40:56

I can provide you with sheikhs telling you that it is ok to go and pray to graves of saints, or that writing numbers on amulets and charming people with them is fine, but the words of such sheikhs would hold no weight unless there was a Quranic source or other clear reasoning,


However, the phenomena is not new, just that some prefer to use their intellect to reason the unerring basis of the Quran rather than dump all their false reasonings on the backs of so called scholars who mislead many and themselves go astray.

Whoever Obeys a Scholar or a Ruler by Prohibiting What Allah Has Permitted or Permitting What Allah Has Prohibited Has Taken Them as Partners Beside Allah

Ibn `Abbas (ra) said: "Stones are about to rain down upon you from the sky: I say to you: "Allah's Messenger**said..." and you reply: "But Abu Bakr and `Umar said...?"*

http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/cr...T1-chap-36.htm

Is what I've written above believed to be true to today? Of course.

By whom? sources please.



[pygoscelis;2863257]You say you give a clear answer but then you give me such airy language. Do you or do you not take the intention of dominating and/or destroying others and other ways of life? And if you do, then does that not justify people who hold such other ways of life dear to dominate and/or destroy you and your way of life before you do it to them? If so, then why do you complain about western aggression so often? You appear to justify it.
[/quote]

Please explain which part was airy,
The next part appeared more rhetorical than question, as is to be expected from one who spends years on an islamic forum asking the same questions while in dispute, telling Muslims how the unlawful acts against them are justified, and how Muslims would be liked more by straying liberals if they accept that homosexuality and infidelity are ok.
...however, since you prose it as a question and this is a forum, i shall reply in detail regarding what i personally believe,
Regarding "dominating and/or destroying others and other ways of life", i believe that we will all succeed in this life and in eternity if we all submit to God and accept the laws as enshrined by God in the Quran and other guidance that it points to, upon the foundation of the Quran, however, i believe that God gave all people (citizens of planet earth) a choice and that He allows us to make that choice, to stray further or to slowly come around to the truth via trial and error and that ultimately He will judge us completely and perfectly after we return to Him and are raised for the detailed, final and perfect judgement - as long as the oppression and wrongdoing doesn't reach the level where the righteous have reached their thresold of capability and longsuffering and are calling upon Him from all over the earth in anguish to intervene and judge in truth.
God has made many challenges in the Quran to the doubters and deniers to show a better way that His Prophet may follow it, however, they consistently resorted to malicious personal attacks, slander and confused mockery and hateful treatment when they inevitably failed. The same happened with Pharaoh at the time of Moses, God allowed them to build a very sophisticated civilization which was the envy of the earth at the time, however, the oppression upon which that civilization was running was causing deeply moving prayers and invocations to go up against it, God looks into the matter carefully and sends a Messenger to test them, they inevitably fail in any intellectual argument against the stuttering hebrew born of slaves whom they hold to be below themselves and despise, and resort to the worst kinds of oppression in response - then God judges in truth.
What did Moses ask of them?
Believe in the Lord of the worlds.
Thwy lost the debate and turned to hate and unbearable oppression,
What does Moses say next?
Send forth with me Bani Israil.
They refuse and continue in the oppression.
God judges Pharaoh and his soldiers and allows bani Israil to go and establish themselves, God also respites the confused people of Egypt despite them not having accepted the guidance - even though the records of Yusuf existed amongst them from aforetime
Then the children of Israil begin to stray and God keeps guiding them through Messengers and Prophets, to the extent where they begin killing those sent to them in good faith, God removes from them the kingdom of heaven on earth after the test of the Messiah.
After leaving them in a confused state for over half a century, and while their minds are again thirsting for guidance, while the caesars and the greeks have come up with different models, He sends His Messenger with guidance and the final revelation which the people slowly begin to accept, there are differences of opinion later but always a way of easily uniting upon it, it plays along, sonetimes stumbling, until 1924, when some people had built a kingdom based on the antithesis which is usury and atheism (sometimes-crypto though often bold) and it reaches to the extent that they kill each other en mass in "wars to end all wars" and proclaim the united nations where all fiefdoms shall co-exist and all differences will be settled at the table of dialogue in new york. Those with the ability to inflict most death are given the seats of power on the security council, then the ones with the most weapons decide to continue with undeclared and proxy wars and show the world the undeclared war of vietnam and nicaragua, then help neighbours to weaken and annihilate each other with support and fake green lights, until nations are on their knees, then thwy declare war on their puppet ally, after that's over and millions of children dead, they use the U.N itself to do their spying, and use the intel to totally invade the nation weakened by their alliance, their wars, and their sanctions, while the world sees no more than a few protesting whimpers from the United Nations that was branded and pitched as the supreme table of dialogue in a new era of post-war international peace.
America played jack the atheist lad and failed before the world in all it's promises of a peaceful anarchistic secular world of justice and dignity for all.

So you can see that the results are basically in, that opprossion has become manifest, that truth has become manifest, that people with a thinking mind should have looked at it all and come to their senses by now, that God has taken a front position, demanded that we all submit to Him and given us an additional short respite just out of additional grace, and that that respite is almost done.

Besides all of that which is proven for this world, there is the resurrectuon after death, judgement and eternal life with no gray areas. Only those who accepted God and His Messengers, and submitted to God and His rules will succeed, whereas those who ungratefully rejected God will receive a just and fitting punishment for their adding to the pool of falsehood and oppression.

No. I really can't. And that does not make me dishonest, senseless or disharmonious. Nor does it make me or anyone else who disagrees with you unintelligent.

Then explain to me a way to make it all work peacefully and harmoniously in this worldly life alone - rather than spending years upon years arguing with me about how i'm always wrong.
The usurers already came to the understanding that we'd soon have world government quite a few decades ago, but they also proved that the usury model is not only unsustainable, but that it is the source of oppression and corruption.
I am not God, The One who created this universe, Who shaped you, Feeds you, judges us on earth usually collectively, and will ressurect you again and judge you individually and thoroughly is God,
i explained to you that anyone who disagrees with God is UNintelligent, and you are proving that by your method of argument when you resort to claiming that i am trying to dominate you or belittle you when i present to you the guidance of your Creator in good faith which will elevate people from their humiliation - when you can no longer show us any reasonable models that will actually work or are working, and the psychology of your method has been installed in my malware definitions database so it doesn't come to me as an overwhelming surprise:

But the chiefs of those who disbelieved among his people said: "He is no more than a human being like you, he seeks to make himself superior to you. Had Allah willed, He surely could have sent down angels; never did we hear such a thing among our fathers of old.
Quran 23:24

56.*And indeed We showed him [Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] all Our Signs and Evidences, but he denied and refused.

57.*He [Fir'aun (Pharaoh)] said: "Have you come to drive us out of our land with your magic, O Musa (Moses)?

58.*"Then verily, we can produce magic the like thereof; so appoint a meeting between us and you, which neither we, nor you shall fail to keep, in an open wide place where both shall have a just and equal chance (and beholders could witness the competition)."59.*[Musa (Moses)] said: "Your appointed meeting is the day of the festival, and let the people assemble when the sun has risen (forenoon)."60.*So Fir'aun (Pharaoh) withdrew, devised his plot and then came back.61.*Musa (Moses) said to them: "Woe unto you! Invent not a lie against Allah, lest He should destroy you completely by a torment. And surely, he who invents a lie (against Allah) will fail miserably."62.*Then they debated with one another what they must do, and they kept their talk secret.

63.*They said: "Verily! These are two magicians.
Their object is to drive you out from your land with magic, and overcome your chiefs and nobles.

64.*"So devise your plot, and then assemble in line. And whoever overcomes this day will be indeed successful."65.*They said:"O Musa (Moses)! Either you throw first or we be the first to throw?"66.*[Musa (Moses)] said: "Nay, throw you (first)!" Then behold, their ropes and their sticks, by their magic, appeared to him as though they moved fast.67.*So Musa (Moses) conceived a fear in himself.68.*We (Allah) said: "Fear not! Surely, you will have the upper hand.69.*"And throw that which is in your right hand! It will swallow up that which they have made. That which they have made is only a magician's trick, and the magician will never be successful, no matter whatever amount (of skill) he may attain."

From Quran Chapter 20, TaHa

And yes, I say you, and not God, because from my point of view this is coming from you, and not God, since your God is a creation of your mind. And not only that, but what you say of you God and what he wants is very different than what other people say of their God(s) and what he/she/it/they want, including other people who call themselves Muslims, even in this very thread. To me, all of these Gods are creations of your minds, and you are all speaking your minds and your views in the context of theology.

you've seen many signs and changed the topic or even resorted to getting red faced (web type) and asking how it's on topic when i've offered you proof, You claim to live in Canada right? Now i don't claim to have the authority of God or of making Him do what i want, but i can ask and He listens and can respond and command the angels if He sees fit, how about it snows non-stop in canada, the U.K and other kafir majority countries, especially those allied in the unlawful murders of Muslims and unlawful manipulation of their governments, right up until boxing day to the extent that you can no longer venture outside? I am capable of doublethink in that i can accept the fact of Qadr (divine decree) and simultaneous oppression of man as being unlawful as an unexplainable fact. However can you claim that there is no God, yet blame God, and accuse one of sorcery at the same time?
And would you prefer to believe in sorcery over the guidance of God?

That is fine with me, and I don't seek to offend anybody or dominate/destroy them or their beliefs, so long as they don't seek to dominate or destroy me or mine. Some religious people seem to be able to handle that and co-exist peacefully. You don't appear to be one of them. I would like to be wrong about that. Am I?

[/quote]

Maybe it's because you don't currently coexist peacefully, and that your leaders deceive you into thinking that you do co-exist peacefully while they regularly slander Islam and treat Muslims in an undignified manner and perpetrate or provoke false flags in order to keep your eye off the ball whilst the lamestream media clouds your reality.

[Pygoscelis]

So Abz,

Is the above your longwinded way of saying no? You don't seek to dominate others and destroy their ways? If so, then we've made a lot of progress with you since I first met you and you were calling for the extermination of homosexuals. Live and let live is your new way? That's marvelous. Cheers to you, my friend.

[Search]

:bism:

:sl:

@ Abz, oh, I don't know what you're trying to imply here; but I have to say I don't like your tone, especially because you deride Islamic scholars and Islamic scholarship. You know, Abz, the beauty of free choice? I don't have to do anything you ask. Oh, and I won't.

:wa:

:bism:

So Abz,

Is the above your longwinded way of saying no? You don't seek to dominate others and destroy their ways? If so, then we've made a lot of progress with you since I first met you and you were calling for the extermination of homosexuals. Live and let live is your new way? That's marvelous. Cheers to you, my friend.

Hi!

I'd sooner believe in flying alligators than Abz adopting this philosophy any time soon.

[Abz2000]

So Abz,

Is the above your longwinded way of saying no? You don't seek to dominate others and destroy their ways? If so, then we've made a lot of progress with you since I first met you and you were calling for the extermination of homosexuals. Live and let live is your new way? That's marvelous. Cheers to you, my friend.

I seek to make the guidance and laws of God manifest to the best of my ability and will either succeed or die in such efforts. Either way, it is one if the two great victories, whereas for the deniers,



They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah, and (they also took as their Lord) the Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)) to worship none but One Ilah (God - Allah) La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He)[]. Praise and glory be to Him, (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)." (At-Tawbah 9:31)


Imam Ahmad, At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Jarir At-Tabari recorded a Hadith via several chains of narration, from 'Adi bin Hatim (RA), who became a Christian during the time of Jahiliyya.

When the call of the Messenger of Allah reached his area, 'Adi ran away to Ash-Sham, and his sister and several of his people were captured. The Messenger of Allah freed his sister and gave her gifts. So she went to her brother and encouraged him to become Muslim and to go to the Messenger of Allah. 'Adi, who was one of the chiefs of his people (the tribe of Tai') and whose father, Hatim At-Ta’i, was known for his generosity, went to Al-Madinah. When the people announced his arrival, 'Adi went to the Messenger of Allah wearing a silver cross around his neck.
The Messenger of Allah recited this Ayah; They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah.
'Adi commented, "I said, ‘They did not worship them.’" The Prophet said, ((Yes they did. They (rabbis and monks) prohibited the allowed for them (Christians and Jews) and allowed the prohibited, and they obeyed them. This is how they worshiped them.)) …
They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah… that the Christians and Jews obeyed their monks and rabbis in whatever they allowed or prohibited for them…"

(Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Eng Abridged), First Edition: May 2000], Volume 4, pp. 409-410)


.....Prophet Yusuf (AS) thought this in prison as is mentioned in Surah Yusuf see 12:39:40


"O two companions of the prison! Are many different lords (gods) better or Allah, the One, the Irresistible?
(Yusuf 12:39)

"You do not worship besides Him but only names which you have named (forged), you and your fathers, for which Allah has sent down no authority. The command (or the judgement) is for none but Allah. He has commanded that you worship none but Him (i.e. His Monotheism), that is the (true) straight religion, but most men know not. (Yusuf 12:40)



-and when debating you need to bring these hujjah and there is no need to debate without valid hujjah

So to believe that someone has the power to legislate is shirk-and that is why Allah told the Sahabah, if they follow the kaafirs in Mecca-they would become pagans
You have to search for the hujjah, if it is in Qur'an then that's enough-and if in Qur'an and Sunnah then that's even better-so you are not allowed to blindly follow anyone.
http://www.authentictauheed.com/2012...art-5.html?m=1


Furthermore, and of immediate relevance to the discussion, are those qualities, unique to Allah, that single Him out, such as "al-Hakim", the Judge; "al-Hakim", the Wise; "al-'Alim", the All Knowing and "as-Shariy", the Legislator. Not only is Allah the Creator and Controller and Sustainer, but also the sole possessor of the wisdom and knowledge to legislate for mankind and to determine what is good and what is evil, what is right and what is wrong, what is lawful and what is prohibited, and thus what laws we should judge by, what social, economic and political system we should utilize...**


"Indeed, the ruling is Allah's"*

[Noble Quran 12:40]

[Abz2000]

Yaaaayyyy, it's all about Abz again :D
Predictable.

Doesn't look like Abz speaks of his own desire...... Interestingly, after last night's conversation, i went into the kitchen to make tea, and my eyes fell upon a few booklets which i read around 2005 that were gathering dust in one of the lower shelves, i picked them up and the first one i dusted off and read spoke about people who speak falsehood out of desire to please people and people who calmly convey the truth in good faith despite the criticism:

Points from thawaabit 'alaa darb al jihaad (edited):
The difference between Mudahanaa and Mudaarah
Mudahanaa means to be soft with the kuffar or to compromise whereas Mudaarah is allowed. What is the difference?
Ibn Hajjar and Al Qurtubi narrated that Al Qadhi 'Eyyadh said
"Mudaarah means giving some of your dunya for the sake of your Deen, whereas Mudahanaa is giving away some of your Deen for the sake of your dunya".

For example, you invite a kafir over for dinner to give him da'wah. Here, you have given up some of your dunya by spending up some money on buying food and what not for the sake of Deen. This is allowed. This is Mudaarah.
However, let's say your boss is a non-Muslim and you know that your pay comes through him (even though your pay comes from Allah). So let's say he comes up to you and asks, "What is this Jihad? Can you explain to me what Jihad means?"
You tell him, "Jihad means struggling against your self. And there is nothing in Islam that allows using violence." Here, you are compromising the Deen of Allah for the sake of dunya. This is not allowed. This is Mudahanaa. This is the difference between the two.

Inclination towards al Kuffar whilst disobeying Allah
Allah says,

"And surely they had purposed to turn you away from that which We have revealed to you, that you should fabricate something other than it against Us, and then they would certainly have taken you as an intimate friend.
"And had We not given you firmness, you would have nearly inclined to them a little."
(Quran Al Isra 73-74)

[sfontel]

Yaaaayyyy, it's all about Abz again :D
Predictable.

Doesn't look like Abz speaks of his own desire...... Interestingly, after last night's conversation, i went into the kitchen to make tea, and my eyes fell upon a few booklets which i read around 2005 that were gathering dust in one of the lower shelves, i picked them up and the first one i dusted off and read spoke about people who speak falsehood out of desire to please people and people who calmly convey the truth in good faith despite the criticism:

Points from thawaabit 'alaa darb al jihaad (edited):
The difference between Mudahanaa and Mudaarah
Mudahanaa means to be soft with the kuffar or to compromise whereas Mudaarah is allowed. What is the difference?
Ibn Hajjar and Al Qurtubi narrated that Al Qadhi 'Eyyadh said
"Mudaarah means giving some of your dunya for the sake of your Deen, whereas Mudahanaa is giving away some of your Deen for the sake of your dunya".

For example, you invite a kafir over for dinner to give him da'wah. Here, you have given up some of your dunya by spending up some money on buying food and what not for the sake of Deen. This is allowed. This is Mudaarah.
However, let's say your boss is a non-Muslim and you know that your pay comes through him (even though your pay comes from Allah). So let's say he comes up to you and asks, "What is this Jihad? Can you explain to me what Jihad means?"
You tell him, "Jihad means struggling against your self. And there is nothing in Islam that allows using violence." Here, you are compromising the Deen of Allah for the sake of dunya. This is not allowed. This is Mudahanaa. This is the difference between the two.

Inclination towards al Kuffar whilst disobeying Allah
Allah says,

"And surely they had purposed to turn you away from that which We have revealed to you, that you should fabricate something other than it against Us, and then they would certainly have taken you as an intimate friend.
"And had We not given you firmness, you would have nearly inclined to them a little."
(Quran Al Isra 73-74)

My brother I agree with a lot of things you said...

For us, the word of God is ethernal...and there is NO negociation upon....like ...sin will ALWAYS be sin...no.matter what humans say....

For some people...my statement above alone make us extremists...or "fanatical" as the west like to use....

They use such word, just becouse I preach about Jesus...not becouse I am violent with acts....

Becouse I believe with all my heart in the bible! And a lot of people in the west, some from my own family feel unconfortable with me..

They react strange just becouse of my presence.....and believe me...99% of times I am not even saying anything!

Also:

I just want to make a correction...THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY HEART tha GOD exist!

I will always love them, but as adults, we all have to make a choice....we all are born free....and free we shall remain....concequently, responsable for ours choices no matter what they are....

And not blame God when things go wrong, a diasese stricks or there is a natural disaster....they only remenber God in such ocasions!..Lol...to blame Him....sudently God existes to them!

Preach and alert we must...but not with force and violence...

"The revange is my" says the Lord!

Big hug God bless!

[Abz2000]

My brother I agree with a lot of things you said...

For us, the word of God is ethernal...and there is NO negociation upon....like ...sin will ALWAYS be sin...no.matter what humans say....

For some people...my statement above alone make us extremists...or "fanatical" as the west like to use....

They use such word, just becouse I preach about Jesus...not becouse I am violent with acts....

Becouse I believe with all my heart in the bible! And a lot of people in the west, some from my own family feel unconfortable with me..

They react strange just becouse of my presence.....and believe me...99% of times I am not even saying anything!

Also:

I just want to make a correction...THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY HEART tha GOD exist!

I will always love them, but as adults, we all have to make a choice....we all are born free....and free we shall remain....concequently, responsable for ours choices no matter what they are....

And not blame God when things go wrong, a diasese stricks or there is a natural disaster....they only remenber God in such ocasions!..Lol...to blame Him....sudently God existes to them!

Preach and alert we must...but not with force and violence...

"The revange is my" says the Lord!

Big hug God bless!

1.*Praise be to Allah, Who hath sent to His Servant the Book, and hath allowed therein no Crookedness:
2.*(He hath made it) Straight (and Clear) in order that He may warn (the godless) of a terrible Punishment from Him, and that He may give Glad Tidings to the Believers who work righteous deeds, that they shall have a goodly Reward,
3.*Wherein they shall remain for ever:
4.*Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, "(Allah) hath begotten a son":
5.*No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying what they say is nothing but falsehood!
6.*Thou wouldst only, perchance, fret thyself to death, following after them, in grief, if they believe not in this Message.
7.*That which is on earth we have made but as a glittering show for the earth, in order that We may test them - as to which of them are best in conduct.
8.*Verily what is on earth we shall make but as dust and dry soil (without growth or herbage).


From Quran Chapter 18

وَمَا تَفَرَّقُوا إِلَّا مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءهُمُ الْعِلْمُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ وَلَوْلَا كَلِمَةٌ سَبَقَتْ مِن رَّبِّكَ إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّى لَّقُضِيَ بَيْنَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ أُورِثُوا الْكِتَابَ مِن بَعْدِهِمْ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ مُرِيبٍ *

And they became divided only after Knowledge reached them,- through selfish envy as between themselves. Had it not been for a Word that went forth before from thy Lord, (tending) to a Term appointed, the matter would have been settled between them: But truly those who have inherited the Book after them are in suspicious (disquieting) doubt concerning it.


فَلِذَلِكَ فَادْعُ وَاسْتَقِمْ كَمَا أُمِرْتَ وَلَا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءهُمْ وَقُلْ آمَنتُ بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ مِن كِتَابٍ وَأُمِرْتُ لِأَعْدِلَ بَيْنَكُمُ اللَّهُ رَبُّنَا وَرَبُّكُمْ لَنَا أَعْمَالُنَا وَلَكُمْ أَعْمَالُكُمْ لَا حُجَّةَ بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ اللَّهُ يَجْمَعُ بَيْنَنَا وَإِلَيْهِ الْمَصِيرُ *


Now then, for that (reason), call (them to the Faith), and stand steadfast as thou art commanded, nor follow thou their vain desires; but say: "I believe in the Book which Allah has sent down; and I am commanded to judge justly between you. Allah is our Lord and your Lord: for us (is the responsibility for) our deeds, and for you for your deeds. There is no contention between us and you. Allah will bring us together, and to Him is (our) Final Goal.

[sfontel]

1.*Praise be to Allah, Who hath sent to His Servant the Book, and hath allowed therein no Crookedness:
2.*(He hath made it) Straight (and Clear) in order that He may warn (the godless) of a terrible Punishment from Him, and that He may give Glad Tidings to the Believers who work righteous deeds, that they shall have a goodly Reward,
3.*Wherein they shall remain for ever:
4.*Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, "(Allah) hath begotten a son":
5.*No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying what they say is nothing but falsehood!
6.*Thou wouldst only, perchance, fret thyself to death, following after them, in grief, if they believe not in this Message.
7.*That which is on earth we have made but as a glittering show for the earth, in order that We may test them - as to which of them are best in conduct.
8.*Verily what is on earth we shall make but as dust and dry soil (without growth or herbage).


From Quran Chapter 18

وَمَا تَفَرَّقُوا إِلَّا مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءهُمُ الْعِلْمُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ وَلَوْلَا كَلِمَةٌ سَبَقَتْ مِن رَّبِّكَ إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّى لَّقُضِيَ بَيْنَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ أُورِثُوا الْكِتَابَ مِن بَعْدِهِمْ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ مُرِيبٍ *

And they became divided only after Knowledge reached them,- through selfish envy as between themselves. Had it not been for a Word that went forth before from thy Lord, (tending) to a Term appointed, the matter would have been settled between them: But truly those who have inherited the Book after them are in suspicious (disquieting) doubt concerning it.


فَلِذَلِكَ فَادْعُ وَاسْتَقِمْ كَمَا أُمِرْتَ وَلَا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءهُمْ وَقُلْ آمَنتُ بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ مِن كِتَابٍ وَأُمِرْتُ لِأَعْدِلَ بَيْنَكُمُ اللَّهُ رَبُّنَا وَرَبُّكُمْ لَنَا أَعْمَالُنَا وَلَكُمْ أَعْمَالُكُمْ لَا حُجَّةَ بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ اللَّهُ يَجْمَعُ بَيْنَنَا وَإِلَيْهِ الْمَصِيرُ *


Now then, for that (reason), call (them to the Faith), and stand steadfast as thou art commanded, nor follow thou their vain desires; but say: "I believe in the Book which Allah has sent down; and I am commanded to judge justly between you. Allah is our Lord and your Lord: for us (is the responsibility for) our deeds, and for you for your deeds. There is no contention between us and you. Allah will bring us together, and to Him is (our) Final Goal.

By do way, after you posted these quotes from the Koran I went to my locker and got my copy by...M.A.S Abdel Haleem and read all Chap. 18 and 19....

Its impossible not to note how much of the Kuran is dedicated to say that "God has no son or child".....

But this is another subject...and way off this topic...

In that regards of Paris topic, I believe I understood to some extention the situation where Muslams find them selfs today...

And for that Thank you!

Big hug and may God lead all to The Light!

[Abz2000]

God knows best! Better that we understand God.

[Pygoscelis]

My brother I agree with a lot of things you said...

For us, the word of God is ethernal...and there is NO negociation upon....like ...sin will ALWAYS be sin...no.matter what humans say....

For some people...my statement above alone make us extremists...or "fanatical" as the west like to use....

Being devout is not the same as being fanatical or "extremist" (I hate that word, as a true "extremist" should be super peaceful under a lot of visions of a lot of religions - an extreme Jain is an extreme pacifist). Doing as you say is not what makes people like Abz here look fanatical. It is when he makes statements more towards us all having to live by his rules, and him saying things like the people of Paris deserved what they got, etc, that makes him fanatical. When I first met him on here he was calling for the hunting down and killing of homosexuals. That's what makes him come off as fanatical and "extremist". People start to wonder if he supports ISIS, and he does nothing to downplay that, sometimes egging it on. I really can't tell if he is trolling when he does that or truly a fanatic.

So not sure about him, but you? I really don't think anybody here will call you a fanatic. If all you are going to do is say that sin is sin and you won't do x or y because it is bad to god or whatever, that isn't anywhere near the same. Refusing to eat pork, or work on Sunday, or drink, or insisting on praying at a particular time etc, is not a fanatic. That's a devout believer. If you don't want to be friends with somebody because they are gay or if you don't want to go to a family member's gay wedding or something like that, yes, we will judge you as perhaps bigoted (just as you judge us as sinners etc) but that doesn't make you a fanatic either. Now, if you join Fred Phelps and his gang picketing funerals and thanking God for the deaths of people, etc, or blaming natural disasters on them, or seeking to deny atheists the right to vote or give testimony in court (see US history) or leading a witch hunt or cheering one on, or cheering for bombings of abortion clinics, or supporting Joesph Kony, then you'd be a fanatic.

But I really really don't see that in you, at all. So rest easy. You're not a fanatic. You're devout :) Basically it comes down to whether or not you seek to hurt other people. I don't think you do.

[Pygoscelis]

Then explain to me a way to make it all work peacefully and harmoniously in this worldly life alone - rather than spending years upon years arguing with me about how i'm always wrong.

We can start by not declaring each other as enemies from the start, and not seeing the other as part of a united "side" diametrically opposed to another "side". That is propaganda. That isn't reality. There are a lot of Muslims who live around the world who wish only to live in peace and worship as they will, and who abhor Isis and terrorist acts such as Paris, etc. There are a lot of non-muslims living around the world who speak loudly against western aggression in the middle east and elsewhere (lets not forget south america and the rest of the world where these governments have done horrible things). Such people have protested, voted against, and even fought against such force.

Then you have Chrisitans and other non-muslims living amongst Muslims in Muslim dominated areas who suffer simply for being who they are, and you have Muslims who suffer the same, again just for being who they are. All because of the cycle of hate, bigotry, tribalism, and the vocal violent minorities taking all the attention.

Radical Muslims who want to destroy everything else exist. Powerful people in the west who would like to exterminate all muslims and other groups they disagree with (especially radical fundamentalist christians) also exist. They both push and push and push these conflicts.

Only by uniting across the divisions they seek to create can we ever prevail against them, and have any measure of peace. I find many on this very site encouraging. Muslims here who condemn violence against people in Paris simply for being people in Paris. I reach out my hand to them in turn and oppose the bombings of Syria, etc. Western Atheists like me, hand in hand and back to back with devout Muslims like those who have posted here, is a powerful image and can overcome the hate. We don't have to agree on everything. You can go on thinking I am a spiritually blind sinner, and I can go on thinking you are delusional, but we can still respect one another and fight for each other's rights to exist.

I invite you to join us. There really is a "Us" and a "Them", but the split isn't muslim/non... the split is hatred/peace. And yes, we can overcome.

[sfontel]

Well....I am very disapointed....I found somebody "very tolerable" in the IB forum....Lol

Insaanah! God bless you! Its ok...

[Abz2000]

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ml#post1482328

[sfontel]

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ml#post1482328

Great video....and I am going to watch all of it...

Who is the speaker? Is Abz?...just kidding...

The speaker says that Bush coment/speech about Islam was right to some extent....can you explain that? What the speaker means by that? I think its around 6:00-8:00 into the video...

God Bless! Thank you!

[Pygoscelis]

After listening to the audioclip above (yes, I listened to the whole thing) I am tempted to give Abz a big friendly hug...

... but I am afraid he will reach for a knife if I do.

I would actually be happy to see a true Islamic Nation form in the middle east, but I totally understand why people in the west worry about it. It isn't because they worry about you worshiping Allah and doing things your way there. They worry that you will push it and push to take over the whole world with it, as history shows cultures tend to do. We saw it with the Roman and Brittish Empires. We see it now with American imperialism (though I think that is nearing its end as other nations such as India and China rise). We saw it with the Ottomans and we saw it with the last rise of Islamic armies threatening Europe when Spain fell to Islam.

I really think your path to a peaceful Islamic nation, perhaps Palestine or perhaps some uniting middle east countries, will come through peace, not war. The west is too strong and technologically advanced, and will only attack stronger as you reinforce the image of Islam as the enemy and as a force that seeks to dominate non-muslims. Images of Palestinians and Syrians being unjustly treated by western governments are powerful and have potential to channel forces within those western countries to back hem down. Basically, if you want Islam to survive and Muslims to be treated fairly, you are gong to have to stop chopping off heads and videotaping it, and you are going to have to stop killing random kaffir. Such actions only make life worse for ordinary decent Muslims.

[Search]

:bism:

^^^

Lol, what was in it? Quick summary would be nice.

[sfontel]

I did not listen yet...so cant coment yet! But I will!...lol

[Pygoscelis]

:bism:

^^^

Lol, what was in it? Quick summary would be nice.

It starts with a complaint about non-muslims trying to define Islam and trying to say it is peaceful or encourage it to be liberal etc. The man speaking is irate that non-muslims would seek to do that. He seems to miss the hypocrisy in what he is saying though. It isn't as if Muslims (and other religious people) don't cast other religions and atheism in a bad light. And I have yet to have a conversation with theists about atheism without somebody insisting it is what it isn't, demanding I take this or that position, etc.

He then goes on to complain about western nations defining laws for themselves that conflict with Islam. But why move there if your religion can't mix in with that nation's culture? If you can't handle nude beaches, gay marriage, showing your face on your driver's license etc, stay out of Canada. It isn't like we go to Suadi Arabia and insist they change their laws to accommodate us.

The speaker then makes some valid points about western aggression, and then tries to spin it into support for terrorists (or freedom fighters depending on how you look at it) and calls for the caliphate to rule. The last bit is about not backing down to western governments, and forming a United Islamic Nation (as if Muslims themselves could agree on that) spanning from Indonesia to Spain. I stopped listening with about 10 minutes go go because I had to catch a ride, so I don't know what the very last thing said is.

Overall it leaves me sympathetic to Muslims who have suffered at the hands of western aggression, but especially sympathetic to Muslims who have suffered that, and even more due to the actions of fellow Muslims who do violence and spread hatred in the name of their religion.

[Search]

:bism:

Interesting.

From what I know of the narrator Anwar Awlaki, he's one of the well-known extremists, though deceased, of the modern world.

Unfortunately, he's also a very charismatic speaker.

In here and elsewhere, in Muslim social circles, there's a saying that if you see a person saying/doing something that is bad, don't take the bad, but what is good, you can take. So, I'd say the same goes for anyone here, Muslim or non-Muslim, in regards to this lecture.

Btw, I'd only recommend his audio narration on the Seerah (Biography) of Prophet :saws: to which I'd listened and found informative and inspirational.

However, as to his other points from the video you'd mentioned, I am not surprised:

@ points in your post:
I do find non-Muslims trying to call for reform of Islam an act more worthy of a stealth saboteur, because hey, then, the "changed" religion wouldn't be Islam. So, I'm always, like, umm, thank you but no thanks.

That said, I agree with your point about some Muslims casting other religions and atheism in a bad light. Lol, yeah @ your point about insisting on what is the position and other tactics.

I think a lot of Muslims who immigrate to the West do so out of social climbing ambitions or some variation thereof where a person and his/her family "makes it big." That said, I agree with you: If anyone really has or feels they will have a serious problem with the customs or culture of the country, then maybe they should reconsider immigrating as there's nothing saying you should. However, that said, I will say that I feel a person in good conscience can disagree with a custom, say, like gay marriage and immigrate as long as that belief does not interfere with law and is only a matter of personal conviction.

There, aha, I didn't bat an eyelash when you mentioned the lecture containing support for terrorists because I knew it would be thrown in there somewhere, given the identity of the speaker.

With terrorists' employment of aggressive tactics offending most of the world and its peoples (Muslims and non-Muslims), I don't see how ushering in a Caliphate is anything but a pipe dream. Also, as you said, Muslims all over the world are divided, not united, and from what I've seen so far, all calls to unity are a bit like a frustrated schoolteacher yelling to rowdy students on the playground to come back into line: All the children on the playground are of course too busy to care or notice? Also, if ISIS is the barometer of the modern-day Caliphate will look like, all sane people (Muslims and non-Muslims) will say, "No, thanks!"

It starts with a complaint about non-muslims trying to define Islam and trying to say it is peaceful or encourage it to be liberal etc. The man speaking is irate that non-muslims would seek to do that. He seems to miss the hypocrisy in what he is saying though. It isn't as if Muslims (and other religious people) don't cast other religions and atheism in a bad light. And I have yet to have a conversation with theists about atheism without somebody insisting it is what it isn't, demanding I take this or that position, etc.

He then goes on to complain about western nations defining laws for themselves that conflict with Islam. But why move there if your religion can't mix in with that nation's culture? If you can't handle nude beaches, gay marriage, showing your face on your driver's license etc, stay out of Canada. It isn't like we go to Suadi Arabia and insist they change their laws to accommodate us.

The speaker then makes some valid points about western aggression, and then tries to spin it into support for terrorists (or freedom fighters depending on how you look at it) and calls for the caliphate to rule. The last bit is about not backing down to western governments, and forming a United Islamic Nation (as if Muslims themselves could agree on that) spanning from Indonesia to Spain. I stopped listening with about 10 minutes go go because I had to catch a ride, so I don't know what the very last thing said is.

[Abz2000]

Lol, interesting analysis from pygo and search, all along i thought the lecture was about them. (rand and molla bradley/"sheikh" hasina.
And "search", have respect for the martyrs for truth who gave their lives for their testimony - unless you're ok with becoming a target yourself. The hatred shows in your regular judgemental labelling when lacking any clear argument.

Sfontel, the speaker (may Allah be pleased with him and his family), was referring to mufti bush's lecture on Islam to a crowd of Muslims in washington, not long after having begun the murder afghans en masse in the name of seeking Sheikh Usama who they were falsely accusing of the false flag which was the 9/11 fiasco.
he even gives us a history lesson lol.

http://www.claychipsmith.com/Bush_speaks_at_Eid.htm
.

[Abz2000]

Tunacrab • in 8 years RE: Ahmed’s completely innocent homemade clock.



When I first heard about Ahmed, the kid who made the news for his “bomb” clock project, I took his side. I played with discrete electronics as a kid. I built breadboards, I soldered, and I experimented with early robotics... In this STEM obsessed educational system, why couldn’t the school officials quickly dismiss this scare as a science project? Why did this make the news? I just didn’t get it… and then I saw a picture of the clock.
From CNN: “A teenager with dreams of becoming an engineer, he wanted to show his teacher the digital clock he'd made from a pencil case.”

Anyone with an understanding of electronics will immediately see this “homemade clock” is not the tinkering of a child or teen. It was never Ahmed’s idea to begin with. This isn’t some innocent science project. The picture of the clock exposes the lie. Ahmed did not lovingly patch together IC chips and resistors, as the media would like you to believe.

What you see is the guts from a manufactured digital clock, right down to the 9 volt memory backup, and the prefab button board. Absolutely nothing was made. It’s the equivalent of taking the plastic surround off of your TV and claiming you “made” a TV.

Look at the case itself. CNN calls it a “pencil case.” Please. The whole package is vaguely sinister, and it’s intentional. Notice the nondescript packet of unidentified white powder. See that nice dent in the side? I wonder if you could stash plastic explosives behind that huge LED. Why is the lining so bumpy? Look at the shoddy taping and the twisted wire used to close the case. It’s almost as if someone designed this clock to look like a questionable object.
Again, from CNN:

"I built a clock to impress my teacher but when I showed it to her, she thought it was a threat to her," Ahmed told reporters Wednesday.” It was really sad that she took the wrong impression of it."


Ahmed, you didn’t build a clock.
You’re a pawn to your Dad’s political and social agenda.
This is all a creation of your father.
I’m sure he involved you in the process, and made you feel as though you were truly making something, but you didn’t.
It’s a clock without its case. Everything in the “pencil case” was made in a factory. See, a legitimate electronics project full of diodes and resistors looks innocent. It usually runs off of a battery, not an exposed AC to DC transformer… speaking of science projects, Ahmed, why again did you bring this to class? Was it part of an assignment? Oh, you just wanted to impress your teacher with a clock you rearranged inside a small briefcase? Hmm…

From dallasnews.com: ““He fixed my phone, my car, my computer,” Mohamed Elhassan Mohamed said. “He is a very smart, brilliant kid.”
If he were so smart, he’d know the difference between creating a circuit and stripping the guts from a manufactured clock. His dad helped him “make” this, and dad helped to make this “project” look as questionable as possible, within the realm of plausible deniability.
The dad is a politician. He made this happen. Whatever agenda he’s advancing, it just further demonizes western society, and reminds us all to be guilty for how racist we all are. Maybe that’s the agenda.

It’s propaganda.

http://makezine.com/2015/09/16/this-...ohameds-clock/

Ahmed Mohamed meets Sudanese president with whom father had rivalry

The father of the Texas teenager who was arrested for bringing a homemade clock to school attempted to run against Omar al-Bashir in two elections

Ahmed Mohamed poses with the Sudanese president, Omar al-Bashir, on Wednesday in Khartoum, Sudan. Mohamed is scheduled to meet Barack Obama on Monday. Photograph: Ashraf Shazly/AFP/Getty Images


Ahmed Mohamed, a 14-year-old Sudanese-American student who was arrested after bringing a homemade clock to school in Texas, has met the Sudanese president, Omar al-Bashir, a wanted war criminal who the teen’s father opposed in two presidential elections.
Related: Ahmed Mohamed is tired, excited to meet Obama – and wants his clock back
The leader of Sudan greeted the teen at his residence in Khartoum, the nation’s capital, on Wednesday evening, according to the Sudan Tribune.
Ahmed and his father, Mohamed al-Hassan, told reporters Bashir complimented the teen on his intellectual pursuits and encouraged his enthusiasm for the sciences.

Mohamed al-Hassan, Ahmed’s father, attempted unsuccessfully to unseat Bashir in the most recent election in April, according to a profile in the North Dallas Gazette.
He told the publication he ran to “save my Sudan” and “re-establish good connections with America”.


......Ahmed is due to meet Obama in Washington, after attending a Muslim gala on Saturday.
On Monday he is expected to visit the White House for an evening of stargazing, as a special guest of the president.

....Politicians and leaders in tech showed their support,
including Barack Obama, Mark Zuckerberg, Hillary Clinton, Nasa and the Turkish prime minister, Ahmet Davutoğlu.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ir-texas-clock

His father, Mohamed ElHassan Mohamed, is a fascinating figure in his own right.
He's a Sudanese immigrant who has twice declared himself a presidential candidate in Sudan.
When Florida pastor Terry Jones put the Quran on trial and later burned it in 2012, Mohamed was the Muslim holy book's defense attorney

Appears to enjoy playing a part in theatre circuses

In 2012, Florida pastor Terry Jones said he was putting the Quran on trial. Jones had threatened to burn the Quran before, around the 10th anniversary of the September 11 attacks, before eventually being talked out of it by Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
This time, he wanted to stage a trial at his Florida church, and he needed a defense attorney. Mohamed volunteered: "[The church] put an ad on their channel: 'Whoever feels in himself he has the power to defend Quran is welcome,'" he told the Dallas Observer.
The trial ended with Jones declaring the Quran guilty of "crimes against humanity" and setting it on fire. Protests and riots in Afghanistan in response to the burning left seven people dead.
Mohamed, who leads a small congregation of Sufi Muslims, a mystical sect of Islam that is generally more liberal, told the Dallas Observer that he was grateful to have a chance to defend Islam, including his own interpretation of the Quran. He didn't realize the church would actually burn the book, although Jones had threatened to do so before.
(He also wanted an excuse to take his family to nearby Disney World, he told the Washington Post.)......

.....But he was undaunted by the experience and looked for a Texas church that would be willing to host his appeal of the verdict.

http://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/9339063...hamed-elhassan

VERDICT?????? OF TERRY JONES?????
lol

Once upon a time, if you did something famous you got to look into a camera and tell the world that you are going to Disneyland.
That’s just about the only place that is not on the itinerary of Ahmed Mohamed, the Texas student who made a clock that a teacher feared was a bomb, setting off a series of events that turned the ninth-grader into a social-media symbol of official overreaction to his Muslim religion.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...917-story.html

GUESS WHO THIS IS?


CAN YOU SEE THE SIMILARITY / SPOT THE DIFFERENCE,
OR CAN YOU PERCEIVE THE WARPED PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE
"IT WAS A GENUINE MISTAKE"
Obama 'Surprised,' 'Upset' When Anwar Al-Awlaki's Teenage Son Was Killed By U.S. Drone Strike

GUESS WHO THIS IS?

Freedom Rider: Ahmed Mohamed and Abdulrahman al-Awlaki

Submitted by*Margaret Kimberleyon*Tue, 09/22/2015 - 18:34
by BAR editor and senior columnist Margaret Kimberley

The president that expanded U.S. wars throughout the Muslim world thinks he can make himself appear Muslim-friendly by inviting a kid to the White House. President Obama “makes a mockery of principles such as the right to trial when his agenda finds democracy too inconvenient,” calmly placing people on his weekly Kill List, then pretends to empathize with a teenager victimized by Texas-style Islamophobia.
Freedom Rider: Ahmed Mohamed and Abdulrahman al-Awlaki

by BAR editor and senior columnist Margaret Kimberley

“If Syrians and Libyans can have their countries torn asunder, then a precocious teenager can be hauled off by the police.”


“Cool clock, Ahmed. Want to bring it to the White House? We should inspire more kids like you to like science. It's what makes America great.”

Those words came from president Obama’s twitter account after a 14-year old Texan named Ahmed Mohamed became world famous. The high school student brought his homemade clock to school but was later escorted out in handcuffs after a teacher reported that he had a bomb. Racism, Islamophobia, draconian “zero tolerance” policies, and base ignorance all played a role in the disgraceful turn of events.

When social media turned Mohamed’s name into a household word the president weighed-in with his words of support.
But unlike other individuals who felt genuine empathy or outrage about this case, the presidential tweet came with doses of hypocrisy and opportunism.
Obama is no protector of the rights of Muslim teens, as Abdulrahman al-Awlaki’s family can attest.


Abdulrahman and his father Anwar were murdered on the president’ orders in 2011. Both American citizens, they ran afoul of the never ending “war on terror” and Obama’s political ambitions in the year before his re-election campaign.


“Racism, Islamophobia, draconian “zero tolerance” policies, and base ignorance all played a role.”


In the absence of legislation, judicial precedent or any case law, Barack Obama declared that he had the right to assassinate anyone in the world, including American citizens like the Awlakis. Anwar al-Awlaki was never even charged with a crime. Like his predecessors, Obama makes a mockery of principles such as the right to trial when his agenda finds democracy too inconvenient.His acolytes love to point out that the president once taught constitutional law. That fact doesn’t count for much in reality but neither do any of the claims that justify continuing a war of terror against the Muslim world.


The Obama administration made quite a big show of announcing the “kill list” policy which ended the Awlakis lives. The New York Times was happily used as the messenger when the administration eagerly revealed the inner workings of the assassination decision making process. There was precious little outrage about the president of the United States acting like a mafia boss, even after Anwar al-Awlaki was rubbed out like a rival gangster. When his son was killed in another drone strike two weeks later the White House pretended it had all been a mistake and tried to cover their crime by claiming that the 16-year old was 21.


Needless to say there were teenage victims of the United States and NATO in Libya in 2011. That was not just a bad year for the Awlakis, but for millions of people first in Libya and then Syria who had the misfortune of being on the wrong side of the regime change line.
“His policies against the Muslim world are even more ruthless than those of his much more reviled predecessor George W. Bush.”
These aggressions should not be forgotten because the president decided to jump on the #istandwithahmed bandwagon. He may have Ramadan Iftar dinners at the White House or speak Arabic words at the opportune moment, but his policies against the Muslim world are even more ruthless than those of his much more reviled predecessor George W. Bush.
The president cannot be let off the hook because of a social media post. He bears a great deal of responsibility for the continued animus against Muslim people. By criminalizing an entire region he gives credence to the belief that its people are criminals and unworthy of being thought of as human beings. If the Awlakis can be killed, if Syrians and Libyans can have their countries torn asunder and Pakistanis and Afghans can be victims of drone strikes on presidential whims, then a precocious teenager can be hauled off by the police.


Obama has always gotten too much credit and too little scorn because he is disliked by racist, dead ender Republicans. Of course, if Fox news and Sarah Palin criticize the president’s response to the Ahmed Mohamed case he is again seen as the bulwark of enlightenment when he is in fact just the more effective evil.


Ahmed was released without being arrested and no charges were filed against him. He has been embraced by people all over the world and the White House is not alone in rolling out the red carpet of welcome. But the effects of the traumatic experience have apparently not left him. His father reported that his son has lost his appetite and isn’t sleeping well. Ahmed added that the family is now “torn and confused” by their experience.


There are thousands of Ahmeds all over the country, reliving the terror of interactions with police. There are Ahmeds in the Middle East and north Africa who have survived America’s attempts to take their lives. Unfortunately that will all be forgotten when Obama gets his photo opportunity with this teenager. He is lucky to live in Texas and not Syria. In this country the president isn’t trying to kill him.
Margaret Kimberley's Freedom Rider column appears weekly in BAR, and is widely reprinted elsewhere. She maintains a frequently updated blog as well as at http://freedomrider.blogspot.com. Ms. Kimberley lives in New York City, and can be reached via e-Mail at Margaret.Kimberley(at)BlackAgendaReport.com.



http://www.blackagendareport.com/ahm...hman_al-awlaki

Nasser has repeatedly demanded accountability for Abdulrahman's death, which the White House and its allies have struggled to explain.


Robert Gibbs, former White House press secretary and senior adviser to Obama's reelection campaign, drew criticism for suggesting Abdulrahman would've been alive if he had a more responsible father.


"I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well being of their children," Gibbs told reporters after a 2012 presidential debate. "I don't think becoming an al Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business."


Earlier this year, White House press secretary Jay Carney defended Obama's drone policy when pressed on a leaked Justice Department memo detailing the broad rationale the administration uses for its targeted killing program.


"I’m not going to talk about individual operations that may or may not have occurred," Carney said when a reporter brought up the killing of Abdulrahman and asked if the teenager was a "senior operational leader" of a terrorist group.


Obama has also defended the conduct of his drone program, insisting his administration takes significant steps to avoid civilian casualties. But the president has declined to get into much detail about the al-Awlaki killings, offering instead his explanation of when an American citizen is a fair target.
"I think there's no doubt that when an American has made the decision to affiliate himself with al Qaeda and target fellow Americans, that there is a legal justification for us to try and stop them from carrying out plots,"
Obama told CNN in September. "What is also true though is that as an American citizen, they are subject to the protections of the Constitution and due process."

AMY*GOODMAN:*I wanted to bring Sheikh Saleh bin Fareed into this conversation and ask you to respond to President Obama saying that they wanted to prosecute Anwar al-Awlaki but could not find—could not get him, so they had to kill him. You, Saleh bin Fareed, are the head of the Aulaq tribe. Did the U.S. ever ask you to hand him over?

SALEH*BIN*FAREED:*In fact, I had been approached by President Ali Abdullah Saleh some years ago, and he asked me if I cou persuade Anwar to come to live in Sana’a or in Aden.
Anwar was living in a side—in Awlaki territory, and he was living peacefully, going to the mosque, meeting people in a small village. And, in fact—and he told me, "Please, try and convince him. We want him to come and live in Sana’a. And the Americans, they don’t want him to live in the Awlaki sheikhdom."

So I went, I met Anwar, I spoke to him, and he told me, "Uncle, please. I have—I got bored by living in Sana’a. I had been in jail for a long time, and they could not prove anything to me. And I am afraid if I go back to Sana’a, they will put me in jail again. So I want to be alone here in this peaceful village. And please assure them that I have nothing to do whatsoever with al-Qaeda. I have—I know nothing about it. But I hope they don’t force me to go to the end." I tried to convince him that he will be in peace, but he said, "I don’t trust neither the American government nor the Yemeni government for my safety. And just tell them that I have nothing to do whatsoever with al-Qaeda. And all I do, I mean, I do it openly. I go to the mosque. I meet people. And that’s all."

AMY*GOODMAN:*Sheikh Saleh bin Fareed, if the U.S. government had presented you with evidence, would you have turned Anwar al-Awlaki over to U.S. forces or to the Yemeni government?

SALEH*BIN*FAREED:*For sure, I would have done it. And I am sure his father would have done it. I have known Anwar for a long time, since he was a child. Anwar was—he was born to be honest. He born to be a leader. He was a very promising young man. He was loved by the people all over the country, by the tribesmen, by the Middle East people, by the politicians. And he was welcomed anywhere he would go. But I assure you he got nothing whatsoever to do what they—for what they claim. And I am sure I could have handed him over, me and my family, but they never, ever asked us to do that.

AMY*GOODMAN:*Nasser al-Awlaki, let me ask you the same question. You’re the father of Anwar al-Awlaki. If the U.S. government had presented you with evidence and you were convinced, would you have handed your son over?

NASSER*AL-AWLAKI:*Well, you know, if we go back, you know, when I wrote the letter to Mr. Obama telling him not to target my son, and I asked him to give me some time to have a dialogue with my son and convince him to not to make any sermons, even sermons against the United States of America or any other country, yet I got no response from the United States government. So there was no effort on the side of the United States government that they wanted to capture Anwar and put him to trial if they had anything against him. So, believe me, if the United States government gave me a concrete evidence against Anwar, I would have done my best to convince Anwar to come to Sana’a or to go even to the United States and face a trial.

But it was only allegations. For example, Mr. Obama in his speech claimed that Anwar was the foreign director of al-Qaeda operations in Yemen. This is a big lie. Al-Qaeda never claimed that Anwar is a member of their organization. They always called him a sheikh, Anwar al-Awlaki. They never claimed he is a member of their organization. They never said he had an office or any official standing in that organization. Even Anwar himself, he never claimed—he never said anything regarding that he is a member or not a member of al-Qaeda. So it is a complete lie. And I am really astonished that the American president, who made an oath that he will protect the American Constitution, will say something like this against an American citizen, who has never been alleged to make any crime, and he was not given the chance to say his—to come to court and defend himself.

http://m.democracynow.org/stories/13696

[sfontel]

Should we start a new thread...San Bernardino?

[Search]

:bism:

Should we start a new thread...San Bernardino?

Hi!

There's already a thread on it.

[Pygoscelis]

I post this link specifically as a special hug for Abz, complete with a John Lennon soundtrack :D

[Muhammad]

Assalamu Alaykum and Greetings,

This thread will be closed for review. It seems that it has gone off-track somewhere along the 20 pages.

Please be aware of our rule: No praise of, condoning of, or calls for violence or other unislamic behaviour will be tolerated whatsover on the forum.

In addition to this, a couple of other guidelines need to be stated:

Baiting is not acceptable. Dropping things in the forums just to stir the waters will not be tolerated.

We also discourage discussion of personalities, particularly deceased individuals. We leave their affair to Allaah :swt: who truly Knows the reality of the situation and Who is the ultimate Judge.

If everyone can bear these things in mind that will be much appreciated.