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DanEdge
11-14-2015, 07:10 AM
Muslim reaction to the Paris attacks? What are you hearing? It's a terrible, sad day :(

--Dan Edge
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farhan
11-14-2015, 08:57 AM
Subhan Allah just saw this. #Pray4PeaceInParis

http://www.theguardian.com/world/liv...g-live-updates

http://www.theguardian.com/world/liv...ern-paris-live

What we know so far
- At least 120 people are feared to have been killed in a series of devastating attacks across Paris on Friday evening.
- Eight attackers also died, police say, seven of them by detonating explosive suicide belts.
- Police continue to search for accomplices who might still be at large.
- Two hundred people were injured, 80 of them seriously.
- Shootings and explosions were reported in six locations across the city, including the Stade de France in northern Paris, where two suicide attacks and a bombing took place as the national team played Germany in a friendly football match.
- The majority of victims died after a mass shooting inside the Bataclan concert venue.
- Shootings also took place in restaurants and other sites in the centre of the city.
If Muslims are blamed then prepare for backlash, they will accuse us for a crime we did not commit or have no knowledge of. The backlash will be huge! With the recent attacks everyone should be extra vigilant (especially sisters). May Allah protect all of the Muslims. Ameen!

"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors." - (Quran 5:32)

One witness inside the Bataclan hall told how gunmen burst in shouting “Allah Akbar” - God is the greatest – before opening fire. They were also heard to shout: “This is for Syria”

French police secure the area near the Bataclan concert hall Panic: French police secure the area near the Bataclan concert hall following fatal shootings in Paris, France, November 13, 2015

Terrified hostages told how IS thugs slaughtered victims “one by one” during a siege at a concert hall as Paris was plunged into murderous chaos.

At least 60 people had been killed in the gun and bomb attacks said to have been launched in revenge for the US missile strike that killed British terror thug Jihadi John in Syria.

French president Francois Hollande *immediately closed the country’s borders as the nation came to terms with the second major terrorist strike on its shore since the Charlie Hebdo massacre in January.

At least 11 people were killed in the Bataclan concert hall when gunmen stormed the building and more than 100 were being kept hostage.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...houted-6830234
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Pygoscelis
11-14-2015, 09:14 AM
Indeed. I bet there are millions of Muslims around the world tonight hoping and pleading that it not be Muslims who did this.
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czgibson
11-14-2015, 09:17 AM
Greetings,

It's a terrible tragedy, the worst terrorist attack in Europe since the Madrid train bombings of 2004, and the worst violence to hit France since World War 2. No news outlet that I know of has said who is responsible. I don't think it is known yet.

Peace
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farhan
11-14-2015, 09:24 AM




"Such attacks will:
1) Increase the resolve of these powers to send even more military might and aid against innocent Muslims around the world
2) Bring about an increase in hate crimes against Muslims in Western lands
3) Increase the paranoia of Islamphobia around the globe
4) Ease the introduction of more and more draconian legislation that unfairly targets Muslims, under the guise of 'safety from terrorists'
5) Curb more and more speech and dissent that is technically legal
6) Turn the tide against accepting Muslim refugees from Syria and other war-torn zones
...and many, many, many more harms." - Yasir Qadhi
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Physicist
11-14-2015, 09:26 AM
The fear induced by these attacks hiding the reasons of, increasing islamophobia worldwide and serves the hidden goals of the evil staying behind.
Those young attackers must to be heard, their motives to be understood and reveal those who is manipulating them.
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sister herb
11-14-2015, 09:30 AM
The first victims are innocent people in Paris, the second victims are innocent Muslims in everywhere, the third victim will be the truth and justice. :hmm:
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ajr
11-14-2015, 09:33 AM
Oh my GOD!!!
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Mr.President
11-14-2015, 09:42 AM
Blood for blood, not a good example
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AliHT
11-14-2015, 09:45 AM
Originally Posted by Physicist
The fear induced by these attacks hiding the reasons of, increasing islamophobia worldwide and serves the hidden goals of the evil staying behind.
Those young attackers must to be heard, their motives to be understood and reveal those who is manipulating them.
Results of Paris attack:
1- More Muslim hatred created. More demonization of Muslims. This serves the Zionists. ( helps justify their attack on Gaza etc)
2- New terrorism legislation will probably get created with the main aim of curbing freedoms of the general public.
3- Intervention in the middle east especially Syria will increase. I think this maybe the main reason this was done (yes i think it was another false flag event).
Yes I believe there is a conspiracy.

Yes you can stop reading now.
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AliHT
11-14-2015, 09:47 AM
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Physicist
11-14-2015, 09:51 AM
There is a conspiracy, no doubts.
I think it's not only some Zionists who is benefitting from these attacks, may be Assad, some powers of US,Russia,... Terrorism has no nationality.
We should not guess. We must INVESTIGATE.
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AliHT
11-14-2015, 09:56 AM
Originally Posted by Physicist
There is a conspiracy, no doubts.
I think it's not only some Zionists who is benefitting from these attacks, may be Assad, some powers of US,Russia,... Terrorism has no nationality.
We should not guess. We must INVESTIGATE.
Fine. Agreed. Investigate.
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DanEdge
11-14-2015, 10:08 AM
French President just announced on national television that his government has concluded that ISIS is responsible. He is calling it an "act of war," to which France will "respond mercilessly." German authorities have arrested a suspect in Bavaria in possession of automatic rifles and grenades. Details continue to surface.
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ajr
11-14-2015, 10:30 AM
If i may...this is sad...sad for the muslims, because they fear a backlash...wow...are we so fearful of meeting our Creator? Then we should really re-evaluate our lives...

When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. #Quran 8:12

Paris aren't innocent...they are dropping bombs on the people of Syria...men women and children...including JN, Isis etc etc....but what you should be focused on are the WOMEN,MEN and CHILDREN...oh my God...all in the name of 'collateral damage'

Furthermore, these people issued a ban on muslim women who wear their head scarfs, niqab etc etc.. they harass women in the streets of Paris if they dont adhere to their rules...you cried out in shock for those ills, now you turn around and shout out PEACE FOR PARIS...my God...your heads should be read...

Let me share something with you...

Abu Imraan Jowni narrates that Umar (r.a) once passed by a monk and remained standing there. Someone called the monk and told him that the Ameerul Mu'mineen was there. When the monk peeped out, the effects of difficulty, exertion and forsaking the world were clearly apparent on his face (he had grown extremely pale and haggard on account of his spiritual exertions.)
Looking at him, Umar (r.a) began weeping. 'But he is a Christian' someone commented. Umar (r.a) replied, 'I know, but i feel sorry for him because i thought of the verse in which Allah mentions:

He who suffered affliction and who endured many difficulties (thinking that he was pleasing Allah whereas his beliefs and actions did not conform with the injuctions of Allah). He shall enter the BLAZING FIRE. #Quran 88:3-4
I feel sorry for him because despite his exertion and efforts in this world, he shall still end up in Jahannam.
Bayhaqi, ibn Mundhir, and Haakim

That’s all I felt when I read of the bombings in Paris…

In the words of George Bush…either you with them (kufar) or with us (muslims) that is the BROTHERHOOD OF ISLAM….the kufar has all joined forces, yet muslims are still in limbo…don’t do lip service, if you yearn for Jannah, then embrace it in your heart aswell…
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Physicist
11-14-2015, 10:46 AM
Originally Posted by ajr

In the words of George Bush…either you with them (kufar) or with us (muslims) that is the BROTHERHOOD OF ISLAM….the kufar has all joined forces, yet muslims are still in limbo…don’t do lip service, if you yearn for Jannah, then embrace it in your heart aswell…
Ajr, Sister, your voice may be is the most important here to find the truth.
Yesterday, you qouted hadith "When you are united, you must execute those who are trying to separate you."
Well, there are powers, which are trying to separate muslims of the world.
To mark ones as a terrorists and make others to feel guilty for the deeds of their brothers.

Only you and your brothers, who justifies or commits these attacks can help everyone to understand what and who is staying behind this.
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BlueOwl358
11-14-2015, 11:12 AM
Was a bit confused at first, seeing all the stuff on social media about Americans showing French flags, and stuff like "Everyone is French today". Then I saw the news and it hit me. Blaming this on all the world's Muslims makes no sense at all. The French republic recognizes all citizens as equal Frenchmen, regardless of race or religion, and this includes Corsicans (who happen to be Italian) and people of overseas territories, as well as Muslims. Blaming this on Muslims is blaming it on 4.7 French citizens as well. That would be nonsense.
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Search
11-14-2015, 11:31 AM
:bism::sl: and hello:

Hi. I know I am late to this conversation, and I haven't read the other responses as yet. So, I might not be saying anything new.

However, as a Muslim, my reaction to these attacks is that it is horrifying. I keep trying to understand what kind of Muslims, indeed human beings, would commit this type of horror. While I understand that some Muslims are extremists, this type of extremism in the history of Islam is a very recent phenomena.

I love Islam, having studied Islam quite extensively. Yet the Islam that I love is not the Islam that extremists represent, the one that I beautify myself with everyday, and the kind of Islam that I know the early people of Islam embodied so that people simply observing their character and manners became Muslim themselves.

You know, every time I hear of these attacks, I automatically now think it is a Muslim who did this. I think that speaks volumes to how Islam is being represented in the world; if as a Muslim, I think this, then what about all the non-Muslims who have even less reason to think well of Muslims or Islam? Thanks to extremists' actions, hatred of Islam is real; I wish it wasn't real, and I wish I didn't understand the position of non-Muslims who hate Islam and Muslims, but I do understand. That's the crux: I do understand, and I wish I didn't.
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ajr
11-14-2015, 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by Physicist
Yesterday, you qouted hadith "When you are united, you must execute those who are trying to separate you."
Brother, please dont misquote what the hadith was all about...that hadith was in reference to your mufti that urges the muslim west not to participate because the factions are all about who should be the Amir...

When you going to speak truth then speak it properly, not watered down...
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sister herb
11-14-2015, 11:39 AM
Originally Posted by Physicist
To mark ones as a terrorists and make others to feel guilty for the deeds of their brothers.
Are those whose make kind of attacks "our brothers"?
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ajr
11-14-2015, 11:39 AM
please dont be a victim, the victim card has really been outplayed!!!!
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Physicist
11-14-2015, 11:42 AM
I've read one story long ago, which may explain some of the wars:

One guy introduced to another tender cat and a loaf of bread.

- Bet, i can make this cat to torn this loaf of bread to crumbs
- No way, it's impossible!
- Then look!

He put cat on the floor and a bread next to him.
Then, with his leg, wrapped in sturdy boot, he stand on the cat's tail.
The cat was screaming and furiously fighting the boot, got frustrated with the invinsible boot but feeling the great pain, cat turned to the loaf of bread an torned it to crumbs.
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Mr.President
11-14-2015, 11:45 AM
Originally Posted by ajr
please dont be a victim, the victim card has really been outplayed!!!!
So this is ISIS or not ISIS ?
What should muslims do when these kind of attacka happen immigrate to Syria ?
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sister herb
11-14-2015, 12:00 PM
Originally Posted by Mr.President
So this is ISIS or not ISIS ?
What should muslims do when these kind of attacka happen immigrate to Syria ?
We need to condemn kind of attacks and ISIS (or who ever lunatic group). They should think at the first that kind of attacks will cause more suffering to others, like civilians in Syria as soon the West have to attack to there. But when kind of groups have thought suffering they cause to the innocents? Never.

Victim is the truth and justice, guilty is ISIS.
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ajr
11-14-2015, 12:00 PM
Ask your mufti...he seems to hold all the answers to the state we are in...or maybe you should approach the ones that endears more to your heart...Allah says He will strike TERROR into the hearts of the disbelievers...

lets review what the definition of terror is...

Problem is everyone thinks he/she holds all the answers...

We want to portray Islam as Peaceful, so that we can endear the other religions, once things like this happen we jump and refute, we go "I AM MUSLIM, THOSE ACTS WEREN'T IN MY NAME'

So everything the Quran states isn't in your name? Allah tells us be merciful towards the believer and hard towards the disbeliever, do we adhere to that? well, do we????

We scream, khawarij...we scream all these evils because we FEAR, we Fear that if we leave behind all we know then what happens...So you dont even believe in Qadr...being called Ahmad, Muhammad etc is all but a name...embracing your Identity is completely something else...Islam means Submission to the Will of God....so if your are muslims and fall under the banner of Islam, shouldnt you be submitting to the Will of God?

Its not what you want, but what Allah COMMANDS...!!!

You value the life of the kufar higher than the life of those in Syria, Iraq, Palestine?...why cant someone retaliate if someone killed his mother, father, sister, uncle, brother etc?...TRUTH WILL ALWAYS PREVAIL, FALSEHOOD IS BY ITS NATURE BOUND TO PERISH!!!!

Your mother gets killed you believe in dar-al kufr system for justice? Is that really justice for you? Sometimes the murderer gets off scott free...Is that justice for you?
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sister herb
11-14-2015, 12:06 PM
Originally Posted by ajr

You value the life of the kufar higher than the life of those in Syria, Iraq, Palestine?...why cant someone retaliate if someone killed his mother, father, sister, uncle, brother etc?...TRUTH WILL ALWAYS PREVAIL, FALSEHOOD IS BY ITS NATURE BOUND TO PERISH!!!!
I really hope you didn´t call this attack as "retaliation".

Retaliate the injustice as killing civilians, including women and children, is very far what Islam teach to us.

But maybe I just understood the meaning of your post by the wrong way. Hopely.
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Mr.President
11-14-2015, 12:10 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
I really hope you didn´t call this attack as "retaliation".

Retaliate the injustice as killing civilians, including women and children, is very far what Islam teach to us.

But maybe I just understood the meaning of your post by the wrong way. Hopely.
I hope the same but will wait till for a reply

When ever we say do not kill innocent
They scream "YOU SUPPORT KUFFAR"
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farhan
11-14-2015, 12:22 PM
Reports coming in that a Muslim woman was attacked with a glass bottle today in a masjid in London. Al Muntada Mosque. Sisters stay vigilant!
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ajr
11-14-2015, 12:25 PM
Dear brothers and sisters,

truth is you dont want to accept the truth, so you will come up with, when we say innocent then they scream kufar...thats like retarded....why are you praying for Paris, when everyone else is being bombed does the Guardian Post say...pray for so and so...hypocrites this media...

What makes the people of PARIS more INNOCENT than any of the other places...WHEN muslims are being killed, so a muslim child doesnt hold the same like a kufar child? Please people...you should really dig deep into your souls...i cant help but compare, you people are then going crazy on this thread about 'PEACE FOR PARIS....

Did you all forget the atrocities that the french commit? Im really confused..maybe i live in a dystopia and you all live in utopia...
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ajr
11-14-2015, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by فرحان
Reports coming in that a Muslim woman was attacked with a glass bottle today in a masjid in London. Al Muntada Mosque. Sisters stay vigilant!
Lets PRAY FOR PEACE in London Masjid
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Mr.President
11-14-2015, 12:33 PM
I really do not understand your view of islam..... Its likr you apply some for your interest and do not acknowledged some for your own interests

Its a really sad thing whats happening in syria and iraq we feel for them we ask dua for them

Just a simple question, answer directly so those 120 lifes are in retaliation to the bombings in Iraq and Syria ?
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Aay1K0
11-14-2015, 12:34 PM
ISLAM is the world's Best, Perfect and Peace full religion. Terrorist has no religion.
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AliHT
11-14-2015, 12:35 PM
Is it wrong if Muslim sisters removed their hijabs or niqabs in this difficult time?
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Abz2000
11-14-2015, 12:45 PM
The news coverage of the event in France in one day has multiplied to the extent of disproportionately overweighing all of the French governments attacks in Syria since september. However tlas usual, the Kuffar governments' method of staying tight lipped about the effects of their horrendous crimes globally, while constantly trumpeting the manufactured "mad irrational savage islamist" propaganda seems to have become the standard method.
When will the people of France ask their government why it's killing innocent civilians in Syria which obviously will cause some to retaliate.
Do any of us wonder at the fact over 30,000 people were killed by kafir coalition airstrikes in Libya after the U.S and French governments primarilyand also their mercenary allies decided that gaddafi wasn't friendly enough with the zionists and that he wasn't playing the nwo puppet game ridiculously enough, and directly and indirectly instigated an uprising and named it "arab democracy", only to force install a u.s friendly military dictator once the fuss was a little quitened.
Are we forgetting the fact that over 250,000 people in syria lie dead with glazed eyes afer the u.s government decided that Assad was like gaddafi and then played the pretend game of "we're the Islamists best friends" while arming anyone who was willing to pick up a gun for whatever reason, only to turn around and bomb the people with drones and jets in the name of fighting Islamic extr
Guys i'm not trying to justify promote the killing of innocents anywhere, but if you weigh these events on a just balance you'll find that the french government hasn't been retaliated to even one percent.


The method is the same, so it's likely the attacks are connected.It's not shocking because of France's position on Syria. France has always been at the forefront of the conflict and has been involved from its start when it took a strong position against Bashar al-Assad's government, and also later against Daesh [ISIL] on the ground and that will continue.

Al Jazeera: With regards to Assad, will this attack change the stance France has adopted?

Piet:*The French position has always been that the first thing that should happen is for President Assad to step down. I don't think anything will change. The first thing you have to do when you're facing terrorist actions is to show this will have absolutely no impact on your policies.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/1...062610843.html
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Physicist
11-14-2015, 12:45 PM
Regarding Ibn Taymiyyah quoting above... does he mean that rebellion about any tyrant forbidden?
I would never accept this!
I've seen in Quran some places regarding corrupted rulers.
May be need some clarifications about.
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Search
11-14-2015, 12:47 PM
:bism::sl: Sis Ajr, as to post 25:

Sis, the scholars I follow all condemn such attacks of terror, and they all have unequivocally stated that those who are doing such attacks anywhere in the world thinking they are pleasing Allah are instead preparing their own doom with Allah SWT for Allah SWT will question them for their heinous actions.

If Allah SWT wanted everyone to be the same, Allah SWT would have made us all Muslims. However, Allah didn't will that. You see, on the Day of Promises all souls acknowledged the lordship of Allah SWT; however, in Allah's Infinite Wisdom, some people on earth are showing that faith, and others are not. My sheikh (may Allah bless him) had said that whoever does an atom of benefit to Muslim, that person must eventually reach to faith before dying in his last seven breaths. Also, Imam Ghazali had a very wide definition of who is really a disbeliever. Many non-Muslims also on Judgment Day will be given a test to see if they are sincere towards the faith that they will reach. The reason I mention this is because I disagree with the harsh stance you are adopting against non-Muslims. Yes, these people (ISIS, ISIL, and the like) are all Khwarij because our scholars have given specific identification of who are Khwarij; they are people whose actions look like they are in conformity with Islam but in reality they are in alignment with satanic protocol that makes them believe they are the only right kind of Muslims and they therefore delude themselves into thinking they can do whatever actions they deem fit because of their self-proclaimed righteousness and rightness.

I value all lives equally because I believe Allah SWT has a Divine Plan for all of us, and we're all (whether non-Muslim or Muslim) representing that Plan's unfolding in our actions.

Retaliation as the kind that you're describing is against Islam because retaliation of the type that you are describing, as per Islamic scholars, can only be undertaken when 1) Muslims are all united over the world, and they have jointly approved of a Khalifa, 2) the Khalifa as leader of the Muslim world then thinks that the right action to take is the course of war, and the 3) a war is fought keeping all the Islamic rules and prescription for a just warfare. However, here, if we're talking of these Paris attacks assuming they were committed by ISIS or the likes, we're speaking specifically of vigilantism, and that kind of vigilantism is forbidden in Islam and Islamic scholars have also taken this same position.

Note I'm not saying that atrocities are not being committed on Muslims; they are, and undoubtedly Allah SWT will question all responsible on Judgment Day as no soul will be wronged even an atom. However, as to the matter of Muslims dying worldwide, Infinite Wisdom and Infinite Mercy of Allah SWT is at play for this bloodshed was prophesied by Prophet Muhammad sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) for when the Muslims will be too cornered and almost hopeless in the reigning chaos will we as an Ummah have reason to rejoice when we'll have Mahdi alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) emerge and Prophet Isa (Jesus) alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) returns to pave way again for truth, mercy, peace, and justice. Remember, sis, as believers, we're not promised Paradise on earth; we are promised Paradise in the hereafter. For now, while all our Ummah's pain, the suffering, the anguish are all very real, they are all also very temporary and a means of drawing our gaze back to the aakhirah (hereafter), the eternal abode.
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ajr
11-14-2015, 12:48 PM
Its sad everyone seem to be attached to dunya so you will make up the weirdest excuse...oh my soul....its clear you read and understand what you want, no matter what is being said, how sad is that?

I really can't water down Islam for the masses to understand...you can lead the camel to the water, you cant make him drink!!!

brother if the purpose of that post was to imply something then dont feel scared to say you believe so and so is khawarij...speak the truth and shame the devil!!!

Dont hide behind an invisible barrier...trust i say that with a smiley face...Alhamdulillah...im not 'fighting' with anyone on this thread, let alone forum...it just fails me when i see a clear injustice among my brethren, but hey if you guys dont see it...Alhamdulillah...again i will say...Islam means Submission to the Will of God don't confuse it with my greeting of Salaam- which means peace...
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Mr.President
11-14-2015, 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by Physicist
Regarding Ibn Taymiyyah quoting above... does he mean that rebellion about any tyrant forbidden?
I would never accept this!
I've seen in Quran some places regarding corrupted rulers.
May be need some clarifications about.
http://islamqa.info/en/9911
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Physicist
11-14-2015, 12:51 PM
Once again it remains the story with the cat fighting the bread.
How, killing innocent people make any retaliation towards those who creates wars?
They only are benefitting from those attacks, getting more power over the citizens.
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Mr.President
11-14-2015, 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by ajr
Its sad everyone seem to be attached to dunya so you will make up the weirdest excuse...oh my soul....its clear you read and understand what you want, no matter what is being said, how sad is that?

I really can't water down Islam for the masses to understand...you can lead the camel to the water, you cant make him drink!!!

brother if the purpose of that post was to imply something then dont feel scared to say you believe so and so is khawarij...speak the truth and shame the devil!!!

Dont hide behind an invisible barrier...trust i say that with a smiley face...Alhamdulillah...im not 'fighting' with anyone on this thread, let alone forum...it just fails me when i see a clear injustice among my brethren, but hey if you guys dont see it...Alhamdulillah...again i will say...Islam means Submission to the Will of God don't confuse it with my greeting of Salaam- which means peace...
A scholar naming a person a name and me naming is two differnt things i said earlier i do not wanna call names

If i do that there will be no difference between me and an extremist (dont misunderstand im not refering to you just in genrral )
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ajr
11-14-2015, 12:57 PM
So if i understand this thread you are all comfortable with your individual countries being in a country they don't belong in?...Hence you all shout for Peace for Paris, fearing that the fight might come to your country soon?
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BilalKid
11-14-2015, 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by ajr
So if i understand this thread you are all comfortable with your individual countries being in a country they don't belong in?...Hence you all shout for Peace for Paris, fearing that the fight might come to your country soon?
"...Whoever kills a soul ... it is as if he had slain mankind entirely..." Quran 5:32

:peace:
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AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 01:00 PM
Well, this attack in Paris wasn't made by the ISIS... It was a false flag !

Even in Tunisia, we had a "terrorist attack" today, one of the terrorists behaded a 16 years old child and he sent his head with his friend.
I don't believe these kind of crap, they are FALSE FLAGS in both Tunisia and France !!

Anyhow, we need to be sorry for the victims in France and Tunisia
Even if they kuffars, weather ISIS likes it or not !!!!

This sura is well enough for us Muslims to love all humanity and support them and be kind with them: Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

As for the other aya, i hope you understand it's meaning, because if you still think that we have to be hard with them, then you are making Quran looks contradictory, that kind of kuffar are those who fight and attack us, why will be hard with non muslims instead of calling them to Islam kindley, and how will they respond postively to us if we treat them hardly ? It doesn't make sense! We need to be MODELS! How will we have a good picture, how will Islam have a good picture if we don't defend the weak ? How was prophet Mohamed with the unbelievers ? Did we forgot who Prophet Mohamed is ??

"So by mercy from Allah , [O Muhammad], you were lenient with them. And if you had been rude [in speech] and harsh in heart, they would have disbanded from about you" Al-Imran 159
"We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures" Anbya 107

See ? it's these kind of ideas and thinkings that can producte terrorists and monsters!

I'm committed to the morals and to humanity and i shall remain so to the end, i do not care about the Fanatics!!

Anyhow this is a very good video to see
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ajr
11-14-2015, 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by BilalKid
"...Whoever kills a soul ... it is as if he had slain mankind entirely..." Quran 5:32
So is it then safe to say that the west, America, Britain, France etc etc has been killing mankind over and over?
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Mr.President
11-14-2015, 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by ajr
So if i understand this thread you are all comfortable with your individual countries being in a country they don't belong in?...Hence you all shout for Peace for Paris, fearing that the fight might come to your country soon?
My dear sister why you are failing to understand that taking inocent life muslim or non muslim is simply wrong

No one here supports the injustice commited against muslims we are against tht and we feel for every muslim in this world including sham, palastine, Chechnya afgabistan pakistan burma....

If you feel that we are not doing well blame us that we muslims are not united..........

But weather it be isis, aq, .... Any other killing 120 ppl in retaliation is just wrong

Now the point is we condemn terrorist attacks killing innocent people paris, usa to ksa ....... Thats fullstop
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Search
11-14-2015, 01:15 PM
:bism::sl:

Sorry, sis, I didn't really understand the question; so, I'll In-sha-Allah answer simply based on my understanding of your question. I'm in the U.S.; and many U.S. citizens (including me) don't like the kind of foreign intervention we're as a country often known to undertake to the detriment of Muslim populace in many countries. That being said, yes, I do fear extremists. I fear that extremists are taking out their anger on innocents, and they are spreading fitna in the land so that ordinary Muslims have to fear the aftermath of their legacy everywhere. Already, some ISIS-inspired individuals have committed heinous actions on U.S. soil, and I am fearful that there may be other lone wolves who are easily brainwashed into committing such actions. I don't like extremism; and I will never support extremism. I don't believe Islam has any place for extremism; and people who believe otherwise, I fear, are seriously misguided.

Originally Posted by ajr
So if i understand this thread you are all comfortable with your individual countries being in a country they don't belong in?...Hence you all shout for Peace for Paris, fearing that the fight might come to your country soon?
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ajr
11-14-2015, 01:19 PM
This is sad because we hold muslim accountable, yet we dont hold the west accountable for anything...and this is the point i am trying to make, not retaliation, not Isis, not JN...you just find it easier pointing the finger, but you pointing it in the wrong direction, your individual countries dont belong in other peoples countries, stealing their wealth, raping their lands all under the guise of PEACE...these regimes are not peaceful, they are in want of ushering in their system...Dar'al kufr...Geewizz....are you all blinded by their atrocities, that our Ulema all scream out in unison there is no place for terrorism in Islam, so they to dont adhere to Allah's Laws? Its sad because our Ulema all belong to ORGANISATIONS and each has to toe the line in our they propagate Islam...like it or lump it...truth will always prevail, falsehood is by its nature bound to perish!!
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sister herb
11-14-2015, 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by ajr
So if i understand this thread you are all comfortable with your individual countries being in a country they don't belong in?...Hence you all shout for Peace for Paris, fearing that the fight might come to your country soon?
Hmm... We aren´t comfortable when some group (ISIS or alqaeda or who ever else) attacks against innocent civilians, just same where and just same whose are those victims. It is a act of cowards, nothing more, nothing like heros fighting against oppressors. Glorifing kind of acts is against the basic values of Islam as well against the humanity.

Plus its against the forum rules.

20. No praise of, condoning of, or calls for violence or other unislamic behaviour will be tolerated whatsoever on the forum. This includes inciting and glorifying combat under the pretense of Jihad. The scholars are to be relied upon in such issues.
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Abz2000
11-14-2015, 01:23 PM
One would have to totally lack any empathy whatsoever to disregard the fact that the french government and the people who claim to have control over it have commited a much more horrendous crime of bombing thousands of people in their homes for no valid reason whatsoever.
Can anyone justify the rationale for the french bombing campaign in Syria?
Also interesting to note that the mujahideen fi sabeel Allah groups in Syria weren't carrying out any attacks abroad - or killing americans in Syria - until after the aerial bombing campaign that was instigated after various differents methods and attempts to find an excuse.
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BilalKid
11-14-2015, 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by ajr
So is it then safe to say that the west, America, Britain, France etc etc has been killing mankind over and over?
yes, taking any innocent life is WRONG :raging:
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MuslimInshallah
11-14-2015, 01:26 PM
Assalaamu alaikum,


We were going to go to Montreal to take my ex-mother-in-law to brunch. For an elderly lady in not-so-good health, taking her grandchildren out to brunch is a special treat for her.

But we can’t go. The news from Paris unfolds like a malignant blossom perfuming my heart with horror. The awful theatricality of it smacks of the entity which calls itself the “Islamic State”. A perversion of something beautiful to clothe something putrid. The suffering Syrians and Iraqis who know it intimately call it “Daesh”. But we in Canada too often give it legitimacy, and call it what it wants as its brand.

Horror. And fear. Fear that the so-recently re-acquired Canadian “sunny ways” will turn again to bitter grey. Fear that our lives will once again go marching off to battle. Fear that people around me may turn their gossip-laden eyes towards “people like me”. Fear that my autistic “typical middle-eastern”-looking teenage son will be interpreted through nightmare-tinted lenses.

How can we go to brunch?

So I cancel the trip and inadequately send my love. I disappoint a woman who is ticking off her remaining days like a shipwrecked mariner. And wrap myself and my children in a blanket of mourning and uncertainty.


Please, I pray to God… Shower your Kindness on all our weeping hearts, and Help us find a way out of these Shadowed Lands.
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sister herb
11-14-2015, 01:26 PM
Originally Posted by ajr
This is sad because we hold muslim accountable, yet we dont hold the west accountable for anything...and this is the point i am trying to make, not retaliation, not Isis, not JN...you just find it easier pointing the finger, but you pointing it in the wrong direction, your individual countries dont belong in other peoples countries, stealing their wealth, raping their lands all under the guise of PEACE...these regimes are not peaceful, they are in want of ushering in their system...Dar'al kufr...Geewizz....are you all blinded by their atrocities, that our Ulema all scream out in unison there is no place for terrorism in Islam, so they to dont adhere to Allah's Laws? Its sad because our Ulema all belong to ORGANISATIONS and each has to toe the line in our they propagate Islam...like it or lump it...truth will always prevail, falsehood is by its nature bound to perish!!
We are not blind for their atrocities but the way to "answer" to them is something absolutely else than this kind of attacks. You can start new thread where to discuss about the atrocities and how to answer to them but don´t link it to this attack. They are two very different matters as this attack wasn´t any kind of answer or retaliation. This was an act of extremist hate.
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Abz2000
11-14-2015, 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by BilalKid
yes, taking any innocent life is WRONG :raging:

Why aren't there 50 posts an hour for the crimes of America and it's allies then?
Is it due to the fact that people are more cautious of being labelledby obama and less afraid of being labelled by Allah?
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Search
11-14-2015, 01:32 PM
:bism::sl:

I understand what you're saying, sis. However, I don't believe our ulema in this case are trying to toe the line in this case. They are unanimous in their condemnation of terrorism. They have written many proofs in their fatwa if anyone (Muslim or non-Muslim) cares to research. Our ulema, for example, please note are also unanimous that homosexuality is forbidden in Islam, though many countries have legalized it. Taking a religion-governed stance against homosexuality is considered hate speech in the modern world, yet our ulema are unchanged at their stance because they know that Allah's Laws do not change. Also, committing an ad hominem in is not helpful to the case you're trying to make, sis, because the ulema's proofs in this instance (i.e. condemning terrorism based on academic Islamic understanding) are extremely solid.

Originally Posted by ajr
This is sad because we hold muslim accountable, yet we dont hold the west accountable for anything...and this is the point i am trying to make, not retaliation, not Isis, not JN...you just find it easier pointing the finger, but you pointing it in the wrong direction, your individual countries dont belong in other peoples countries, stealing their wealth, raping their lands all under the guise of PEACE...these regimes are not peaceful, they are in want of ushering in their system...Dar'al kufr...Geewizz....are you all blinded by their atrocities, that our Ulema all scream out in unison there is no place for terrorism in Islam, so they to dont adhere to Allah's Laws? Its sad because our Ulema all belong to ORGANISATIONS and each has to toe the line in our they propagate Islam...like it or lump it...truth will always prevail, falsehood is by its nature bound to perish!!
Reply

Abz2000
11-14-2015, 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
We are not blind for their atrocities but the way to "answer" to them is something absolutely else than this kind of attacks. You can start new thread where to discuss about the atrocities and how to answer to them but don´t link it to this attack. They are two very different matters as this attack wasn´t any kind of answer or retaliation. This was an act of extremist hate.
Was it directly a minuscule result of the horrendous atrocities of the French people and their democratically controlled government's actions?
Or was it isolated and spontaneous?
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Mr.President
11-14-2015, 01:39 PM
Ya allah ..... [emoji46]
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Search
11-14-2015, 01:40 PM
:bism::sl:

Because the "crimes" as you put them are well-known among Muslims, bro. For example, if there's a pink elephant in the room, no one needs to speak about it, bro, because it's already there for any person with eyes to see. However, the reason Paris attacks or other attacks like these probably get threads is because it is like a cancer that no one knows how to treat.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
Why aren't there 50 posts an hour for the crimes of America and it's allies then?
Is it due to the fact that people are more cautious of being labelledby obama and less afraid of being labelled by Allah?
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Search
11-14-2015, 01:49 PM
:bism::sl:

Sis, our ulema have also said that drones and such attacks against Muslims are wrong too. However, we're not under the helm to control what actions are undertaken by countries in the Western Hemisphere. However, as Muslims, we're held to a higher standard by Allah, and therefore even if we're in danger of being wiped off the earth, we're still to follow Islam, and that means as believers we're to know that such attacks are illegal in Islam.

Truly fearing Allah means knowing that nothing happens without the Divine Will of Allah, and the Divine Will of Allah is that neither the world will see peace nor Muslims witness victory until Mahdi alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) emerges and Prophet Isa (Jesus) alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) returns from the Heavens to set aright the chaos reigning in this world.
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Abz2000
11-14-2015, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by Search
:bism::sl:

I understand what you're saying, sis. However, I don't believe our ulema in this case are trying to toe the line in this case. They are unanimous in their condemnation of terrorism. They have written many proofs in their fatwa if anyone (Muslim or non-Muslim) cares to research. Our ulema, for example, please note are also unanimous that homosexuality is forbidden in Islam, though many countries have legalized it. Taking a religion-governed stance against homosexuality is considered hate speech in the modern world, yet our ulema are unchanged at their stance because they know that Allah's Laws do not change. Also, committing an ad hominem in is not helpful to the case you're trying to make, sis, because the ulema's proofs in this instance (i.e. condemning terrorism based on academic Islamic understanding) are extremely solid.
Sister, we can't use the current 'ulema as an excuse to condemn mujahideen fi sabeel Allah when the Ulema are harassed and hate campaigns are instigated against them for being "political hate spewing mouthpieces of terror" when they simply condemn the atrocities of the kuffar governments or even mention them fleetingly, while the same governments demand that they speak out against a totally undefined and purposefully amiguous concept called "terror"?
I'm sure you must have noticed the difference in speeches during the kuffar atrocities in iraq during the emergency terror laws period - ad the speeches supporting mujahideen against Assad when the kuffar governments were working on destabilizing syria. and totally changed the definition of "terrorism" with the new criminal policies and aims in mind.


The bulk of intellectual groups that have been offered sweeties to spy in the prevent scheme came out shellshocked at how badly it was being used to vilify Islam and frighten people into silence on totally lawful discussions and pertinent issues, the list is long but i'll post a few links:

"We've heard of the police going into schools to talk about Prevent to teachers and saying things like, 'If a kid thinks the West is at war with Islam it might be a cause for concern.' Or if a child goes on a demonstration against the bombing of Gaza, 'Keep an eye on him.' Teachers are nervous because they don't know where the boundaries lie," said Kenny.


http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fea...075115174.html
One schoolboy told Al Jazeera he was accused of holding "terrorist-like" views by a police officer who questioned him for taking leaflets into school promoting a boycott of Israel.

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/...ist-like-views
However, they plot and plan, and Allah too plots and plans, and Allah is the best of planners.
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ajr
11-14-2015, 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by Search
Sis, our ulema have also said that drones and such attacks against Muslims are wrong too. However, we're not under the helm to control what actions are undertaken by countries in the Western Hemisphere. However, as Muslims, we're held to a higher standard by Allah, and therefore even if we're in danger of being wiped off the earth, we're still to follow Islam, and that means as believers we're to know that such attacks are illegal in Islam.

Truly fearing Allah means knowing that nothing happens without the Divine Will of Allah, and the Divine Will of Allah is that neither the world will see peace nor Muslims witness victory until Mahdi alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) emerges and Prophet Isa (Jesus) alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) returns from the Heavens to set aright the chaos reigning in this world.
The Ulema have a habit of publicly and very loudly condemning acts committed by muslims against the kuffar ensuring that they are counted among those condemning the act, while the daily acts of aggression, transgression, murder etc against muslims, not only in the war-zones but in these very same 'civilized' countries including Israel, Burma, China, Russia, USA and 80 or so others goes uncondemned publicly and only in passing whispers privately...
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AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 02:29 PM
I don't know, but this thread started to be shameful not only to us but to Islam itself...

Any non muslim who will enter this thread will see that Muslims are still discussing about the basics of humanity or if it's permissible or not to kill an innocent life.

Such a shame, right ?
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Mr.President
11-14-2015, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
I don't know, but this thread started to be shameful not only to us but to Islam itself...

Any non muslim who will enter this thread will see that Muslims are still discussing about the basics of humanity or if it's permissible or not to kill an innocent life.

Such a shame, right ?
Couldnt agree more
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Physicist
11-14-2015, 02:42 PM
Better to discuss than let problems grow in the darkness.

And anyway non muslims are aware of radical extremist groups and wouldn't take serious any muslim community which doesn't discuss it.

Added: but of course not to encourage such actions. There is an indistinct line between what is search for the truth and what is calls for violence.
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AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by Physicist
Better to discuss than let problems grow in the darkness.
Do you really think that discussing about if it's permissible to kill innocent people or not will give a good image about Islam ?
Some Muslims says yes we need to kill and annahilite these kuffar from the face of the earth and others will oppose them ?
Do you think non Muslim will like such debate ?

This is something that need to be known for a 5 year old child, we already passed this stade!

This thread must be made to feel sorry for the Paris attack victims and to support their families, nothing else!

If someone wants to spread his fanatic ideas, all he need to do is to discuss it somewhere else out of this forum! This forum is a respected place where Muslims, Christians, Atheists and all the other religions come together in peace and harmoney to exchange respectful ideas.

How about if they see us discussing if it's permissible for us to kill them or not ?!
Will you accept the same thing if Christians will discuss about if it's permissible for them to kill innnocent muslims ??

I think that the admins of this forum need to start deleting the inhuman posts around here and reuse the warning system!
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Physicist
11-14-2015, 03:21 PM
I agreed with you. Also the forum rules are telling about.
I would prefer to discuss why some people are thinking that killing innocent people are permissible rather than discussing the permissibility itself.
But there should be places, where mistaking brothers and sisters can discuss their views with muslim society rather than being isolated and guided by wrong leaders.

Peace.
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Abz2000
11-14-2015, 03:24 PM
What I noticed is that certain people tried to use this incident to condemn Muslims who take upon themselves the duty to promote the way of life enjoined by God - despite the incentve and truth about the motivation for the events events not having been clarified yet, and when the wider facts were placed before them, they saw themselves as losing a debate and decided to talk about "Muslims who want won't kill all kuffar" and "non-Muslims might not approve" in order to steer the issue into a corner.

Ahmed ghassama, know that Allah monitors every aspect, angle circumstance, thought and intention before the NSA does and it would be wise to use the Law and will of Allah as your plumbline and level for justice because the mainstream news media are messing with your minds and sending buffeting waves and winds at the people.
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AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
What I noticed is that certain people tried to use this incident to condemn Muslims who take upon themselves the duty to promote the way of life enjoined by God - despite the incentve and truth about the motivation for the events events not having been clarified yet, and when the wider facts were placed before them, they saw themselves as losing a debate and decided to talk about "Muslims who want won't kill all kuffar" and "non-Muslims might not approve" in order to steer the issue into a corner.

Ahmed ghassama, know that Allah monitors every aspect, angle circumstance, thought and intention before the NSA does and it would be wise to use the Law and will of Allah as your plumbline and level for justice because the mainstream news media are messing with your minds and sending buffeting waves and winds at the people.
Well, if you saw my first post, i said that this is a false flag.

Oh, my name is Ahmed Gassama ;)
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Mr.President
11-14-2015, 03:34 PM
Any1 who reads arabic
Can any1 summerize

deleted

Its offical ISIS claimed credit for thr attack
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AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 03:43 PM
OMG i thank Allah that it's in Arabic... The conquest of Paris ? Really ? Really ???

You need to delete your post man, it's shameful, and i was laughing in each word i read lol

He is prazing that attack in Paris, saying that the ones who did it are true believers, and he wants to fight the crusaders of France and it's kuffar people, crazy stuff, he finish the article by threatning France and it's allies, it's written by ISIS
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Physicist
11-14-2015, 03:45 PM
I doubt it's a false flag.
How many are preparing right now for the next attacks?
The refugee wave could be used as a cover to deploy multiple groups of attackers.
Whoever was planning this, for sure they know how local police and people will react, mostly chasing innocent refugees and long staying muslims in EU, meanwhile they had enough time to prepare.
May be it's time for muslims to reveal who is staying behind attacks?
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Mr.President
11-14-2015, 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
OMG i thank Allah that it's in Arabic... The conquest of Paris ? Really ? Really ???

You need to delete your post man, it's shameful, and i was laughing in each word i read lol

He is prazing that attack in Paris, saying that the ones who did it are true believers, and he wants to fight the crusaders of France and it's kuffar people, crazy stuff, he finish the article by threatning France and it's allies, it's written by ISIS
Im with you lol conquest of paris
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Abz2000
11-14-2015, 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
OMG i thank Allah that it's in Arabic... The conquest of Paris ? Really ? Really ???

You need to delete your post man, it's shameful, and i was laughing in each word i read lol

Thank Allah that there's no "g" in Arabic so if it's an Arabic name it's "ghassama" :)

Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
He is prazing that attack in Paris, saying that the ones who did it are true believers, and he wants to fight the crusaders of France and it's kuffar people, crazy stuff, he finish the article by threatning France and it's allies, it's written by ISIS

(What is the matter with you?) When a single disaster smites you, although you smote with one twice as great, you say: "From where does this come to us?" Say (to them), "It is from yourselves (because of your evil deeds)." And Allah has power over all things
Quran 3:165

The fact that you resorted to condemning mujahideen fi sabeel Allah before any motive being implied or clarified sends off a spark of light as to your intentions. However Allah knows best.

The verse mentioned "twice" though in this case it is more than a hundredfold, so even if it is a small retaliation for the crimes of the French government and the people who claim to control it, it's nowhere near to the magnitude of what they justly deserve in order to call it "even".
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Mr.President
11-14-2015, 04:33 PM
I do not have any words
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Physicist
11-14-2015, 04:44 PM
I wouldn't laugh about this message.
It's audience in the first place are non-muslims, to increase islamophobia, to provoke the violence toward french muslims. And to spread islamophobia to other countries as well.
I hope some muslim leaders right now recording the message of peace or something like that.
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IslamicRevival
11-14-2015, 04:47 PM
A deplorable act of violence and totally condemnable. However I find it amazing how the world gets together for France but forgets about the struggle in Palestine, Syria Iraq, Afghanistan and other war ravaged countries, which the west.. including France are coincidentally responsible for.

The world we live in today is the worst its ever been and its a depressing sight. My heart goes out to the innocent people killed in these attacks and the families of the victims.
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Search
11-14-2015, 04:58 PM
:bism::sl:

Hi, bro. I don't think that's fair. I think we're all clear what the brothers' positions on this French attack, which is that they condemn the attack because they believe innocent lives should never be taken on either side. Therefore, I don't think there's any reason for any persons to wait for any clarification because any clarification from ISIS or their likes to me is like receiving ramblings of a deluded peoples.

Also, as a Muslim who loves all humanity, I don't care what iota anyone in the world - Muslim or non-Muslim - use to justify taking the lives of innocent peoples on either side; I feel bad for all lives lost, Muslim or non-Muslim in the world, because I feel the only one winning is satan who promised that he would ensure corruption of people's humanity from the time of Prophet Adam alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) to peoples on Judgment Day.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
(What is the matter with you?) When a single disaster smites you, although you smote with one twice as great, you say: "From where does this come to us?" Say (to them), "It is from yourselves (because of your evil deeds)." And Allah has power over all things
Quran 3:165

The fact that you resorted to condemning mujahideen fi sabeel Allah before any motive being implied or clarified sends off a spark of light as to your intentions. However Allah knows best.

The verse mentioned "twice" though in this case it is more than a hundredfold, so even if it is a small retaliation for the crimes of the French government and the people who claim to control it, it's nowhere near to the magnitude of what they justly deserve in order to call it "even".
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Abz2000
11-14-2015, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by Vision
A deplorable act of violence and totally condemnable. However I find it amazing how the world gets together for France but forgets about the struggle in Palestine, Syria Iraq, Afghanistan and other war ravaged countries, which the west.. including France are coincidentally responsible for.

The world we live in today is the worst its ever been and its a depressing sight. My heart goes out to the innocent people killed in these attacks and the families of the victims.
The issue is that when whole apartment blocks in a country under illegal invasion/bombardment get bombed and thousands of innocent men, women and children are critically maimed, murdered or made to lose their homes, lawful workplaces, vehicles and livelihoods, what minimal coverage you see is presented along with men in godfther suits speakingwith sophisticated words in the context of "security", "stability", "economic/regional interests", whereas when a single contextually minor incident takes place in retaliation or is directly staged in the lands where the perpetrators live in debauchery, corruption, plenty, carelessness and ease, you are constantly shown bodies, emergency services with blinking lights, tears, wails, family members, first responders, personal histories, crumpled dreams in life and an overall saddening picture.
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Khalid Saifullah
11-14-2015, 05:10 PM
I still didn't get a chance to read up the details of the incident, but I have a strong feeling it's the work of Israeli mossed on order to punish France for sending peace- keeping forces to al- Aqsa.

Another Paris False Flag Attack? -- Paul Craig Roberts - PaulCraigRoberts.org - http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015...craig-roberts/

Another French false flag? | Veterans Today - http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/13/charlie2/
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sister herb
11-14-2015, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Khalid Saifullah
I still didn't get a chance to read up the details of the incident, but I have a strong feeling it's the work of Israeli mossed on order to punish France for sending peace- keeping forces to al- Aqsa.

Another Paris False Flag Attack? -- Paul Craig Roberts - PaulCraigRoberts.org - http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015...craig-roberts/

Another French false flag? | Veterans Today - http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/13/charlie2/
Why then ISIS so eagerly claims responsibility of this attack? Do you think they only read about it from the news and rushed to claim they did it? ^o)
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Physicist
11-14-2015, 05:34 PM
To be honest, sometime i'm envy to the citizens of EU and USA, living at ease, having great life opportunities, for whom couple of hundred dead fellow citizens is the great tragedy.
Feel it unfair that for me it's a big deal even to get visa to their country, not saying about ability to work there and easily earn great money.
On the other hand, i understand, it is not they who are making my life hard.
They are just more lucky, only Allah knows why.
This moment is also the test for many about envy.
I saw posts of my fellow citizen, who was even happily yelling when found out about. This was really shamefull.
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BilalKid
11-14-2015, 06:01 PM
just.. hate everywhere :exhausted:exhausted

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MuslimInshallah
11-14-2015, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by Physicist
I doubt it's a false flag.
How many are preparing right now for the next attacks?
The refugee wave could be used as a cover to deploy multiple groups of attackers.
Whoever was planning this, for sure they know how local police and people will react, mostly chasing innocent refugees and long staying muslims in EU, meanwhile they had enough time to prepare.
May be it's time for muslims to reveal who is staying behind attacks?

Hello Physicist,


(mildly) Mmm... This is a strange post, frankly. You seem to be insinuating that Muslims in general actually know who is perpetrating these acts, and ahead of time!

(raised eyebrows) Do you really think an individual or a group of people who are planning an attack, are going around in the general community (the majority of Muslims do not, actually, go to the mosques, you know), seeking out Muslims to tell them about the next up-coming attack?! And that Muslims are then keeping this information to themselves, and letting their fellow citizens get gunned down?!

Really?!

The reality is that Muslims are people just like everyone else. They are mostly involved in working, raising their families, having a little relaxation, doing a few good deeds and being less-than-perfect. If they knew someone was planning an assault in a public place, they'd probably do what most people would do: try to call the police, warn their family and friends, and try to keep away from whatever was planned.

I'm Muslim (smile. If God Wills). And I know absolutely nothing about terrorist plans. And my reactions are just like anyone else's. I heard the news with shock and horror . Then I emailed my cousin and family who live in Paris to make sure they were ok (they were). And I worried till my kids came home safe (they did). And I hugged them all. And I cancelled our plans to visit my ex-mother-in-law in another city, wanting to see how our new Prime Minister would deal with this (the old one tended to beat the drums of war; the new one is wiser, it seems). Then I called my ex-mother-in-law and talked about the happenings in Paris. And Iran. And Syria. And refugees. And politics. And feelings of helplessness in the face of wrongdoing by all the various actors who are involved in the mess in Syria (and there are a lot of them). And our sympathy for the suffering of the local people who just cannot live in their own homes anymore.

(mildly) So if you are wondering what Muslims know and are saying about what they hear about in the news... well, it's pretty much like everyone else, I think.


May God, the Oft-Forgiving, Help us to better know ourselves and one another.
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Physicist
11-14-2015, 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Hello Physicist,


(mildly) Mmm... This is a strange post, frankly. You seem to be insinuating that Muslims in general actually know who is perpetrating these acts, and ahead of time!

(raised eyebrows) Do you really think an individual or a group of people who are planning an attack, are going around in the general community (the majority of Muslims do not, actually, go to the mosques, you know), seeking out Muslims to tell them about the next up-coming attack?! And that Muslims are then keeping this information to themselves, and letting their fellow citizens get gunned down?!

[I]Really?!
Assalaamu alaikum, brother.
It's just out of context of discussing with sister Ajr ISIS matters in this topic and another one.
I think that ISIS was created by some evil powers to split muslims and turn away the world from Islam. Worried that ISIS supporters are getting isolated from other muslims and think this all has to be discussed and to reveal who is staying behind ISIS. But discussion went to far to justification of it deeds and probably not suitable for this forum.
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Leoprecordia
11-14-2015, 07:05 PM
Isn't it funny (and sad) that when a lot of these events occur, they just give you a feeling of doubt? Maybe it's just me, but I've parted ways with my old beliefs thinking absolutely every flutter of a bird's wings was the result of a conspiracy against Muslims. Even still, the creation of ISIS, the false flags, and how events seem to just perfectly (coincidentally) line up to create more fear even though they make little sense is hard for me to accept as fact. I feel like I should embrace the feelings in the back of my mind more and just trust my gut, even while not having the facts.

I don't doubt the West's war against Islam but I also don't doubt the hatred from groups like ISIS, AQ and their smaller counterparts. We have warnings from the Qur'an and the Prophet (SAW) about the extremism and fall of Islamic knowledge toward the end times, some verses even directly mentioning the rise of ISIS. Some ahadith even describe Sufyani as almost literally al-Baghdadi (and this is from someone who isn't very keen on ahadith in general).

I'm there to express my grief when Palestinians are murdered, Syrians, Iraqis, Afghanis, Pakistanis, etc. But my grief will always be for the innocent, irrespective of faith or nationality. Reading through the posts in this thread, I some other certain individuals should come to accept the same beliefs as that is part of Islam.

Just some thoughts of mine, apologies for the ramble, but it's difficult to trust anything you see see and hear nowadays.
Reply

ajr
11-14-2015, 07:17 PM
Project yourself to the day of Qiyaamah...stand there, face your Creator and see if you will all be spewing the...#PrayforParis....yes Allah i prayed for the kufar, i showed much mercy towards them and i totally vilified the muslim that said he is holding on to the rope of Your laws...you all want to be acknowledged on a platform that you condemn the acts of certain muslims, already the angels on your shoulders have written down your actions, thoughts etc...now you want acceptance from the masses for it too?

#PrayforParis...Like did you pray FAJR this morning????????

#PRAYFORSYRIA
#PRAYFORIRAQ
#PRAYFORYEMEN
#PRAYFORSOMALIA
#PRAYFORAFGHANISTAN
#PRAYFORPALESTINE
#PRAYFORTURKISTAN
#PRAYFORLIBYA
Reply

Search
11-14-2015, 07:21 PM
:bism::sl:

I also don't doubt that powerful countries in the Western Hemisphere had known that certain actions will work to destabilize the Middle East, strengthening the position of Israel in that region. However, biggest enemy of Muslims are extremist Muslims themselves because no conspiracy of any nation would have capable of working had ingrown Muslim extremists not worked to play out the evil we're seeing on the global stage. For example, no doubt, ISIS and other extremist groups are infiltrated from within by CIA and Mossad and British intelligence a la Lawrence of Arabia style to give the latest and best information to the nations. That being said, Muslim extremists are the cancer ultimately because they are perpetrating unlawful actions under the guise of Islam, claiming they are true mujahideen (warriors) when Prophet sallalalhu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) would have been the first to reject them.

Originally Posted by Leoprecordia
Isn't it funny (and sad) that when a lot of these events occur, they just give you a feeling of doubt? Maybe it's just me, but I've parted ways with my old beliefs thinking absolutely every flutter of a bird's wings was the result of a conspiracy against Muslims. Even still, the creation of ISIS, the false flags, and how events seem to just perfectly (coincidentally) line up to create more fear even though they make little sense is hard for me to accept as fact. I feel like I should embrace the feelings in the back of my mind more and just trust my gut, even while not having the facts.

I don't doubt the West's war against Islam but I also don't doubt the hatred from groups like ISIS, AQ and their smaller counterparts. We have warnings from the Qur'an and the Prophet (SAW) about the extremism and fall of Islamic knowledge toward the end times, some verses even directly mentioning the rise of ISIS. Some ahadith even describe Sufyani as almost literally al-Baghdadi (and this is from someone who isn't very keen on ahadith in general).

I'm there to express my grief when Palestinians are murdered, Syrians, Iraqis, Afghanis, Pakistanis, etc. But my grief will always be for the innocent, irrespective of faith or nationality. Reading through the posts in this thread, I some other certain individuals should come to accept the same beliefs as that is part of Islam.

Just some thoughts of mine, apologies for the ramble, but it's difficult to trust anything you see see and hear nowadays.
Reply

farhan
11-14-2015, 07:36 PM
This is very strange indeed! No matter how big the attack is, the I.D will always survive and used as proof.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News...-bombers-.html

Reply

Leoprecordia
11-14-2015, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by ajr
Project yourself to the day of Qiyaamah...stand there, face your Creator and see if you will all be spewing the...#PrayforParis....yes Allah i prayed for the kufar, i showed much mercy towards them and i totally vilified the muslim that said he is holding on to the rope of Your laws...you all want to be acknowledged on a platform that you condemn the acts of certain muslims, already the angels on your shoulders have written down your actions, thoughts etc...now you want acceptance from the masses for it too?

#PrayforParis...Like did you pray FAJR this morning????????

#PRAYFORSYRIA
#PRAYFORIRAQ
#PRAYFORYEMEN
#PRAYFORSOMALIA
#PRAYFORAFGHANISTAN
#PRAYFORPALESTINE
#PRAYFORTURKISTAN
#PRAYFORLIBYA
You haven't directly answered a single question from anyone in this thread so allow me to engage you. If you're not going to answer this question directly, then don't even bother responding:

Are you saying the people who were killed last night weren't innocent?
(1) Yes
(2) No
(3) I'm going to dodge yet another question because I have nothing intelligent to say
Reply

Leoprecordia
11-14-2015, 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by Search
:bism::sl:

I also don't doubt that powerful countries in the Western Hemisphere had known that certain actions will work to destabilize the Middle East, strengthening the position of Israel in that region. However, biggest enemy of Muslims are extremist Muslims themselves because no conspiracy of any nation would have capable of working had ingrown Muslim extremists not worked to play out the evil we're seeing on the global stage. For example, no doubt, ISIS and other extremist groups are infiltrated from within by CIA and Mossad and British intelligence a la Lawrence of Arabia style to give the latest and best information to the nations. That being said, Muslim extremists are the cancer ultimately because they are perpetrating unlawful actions under the guise of Islam, claiming they are true mujahideen (warriors) when Prophet sallalalhu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) would have been the first to reject them.
Walaikum as'salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

I couldn't agree with you more. You share my same beliefs.
Reply

Search
11-14-2015, 07:48 PM
I really am sorry, sis, that you feel that way. However, I stand by my statement because Islam is a "living" religion. Prophet sallalalhu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) had stated in prophetic tradition that ulema (scholars) are the inheritors of prophets, and our ulema (scholars) have by consensus rejected extremism and terrorism. Prophet sallalalhu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) also said that the way to determine which Muslims are on the right path is to "stick" so-to-speak with the majority. And the majority of Muslims all over the world reject extremism and terrorism as well. Prophet sallalalhu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) also said that we would not go astray as long as we accept follow the Quran and ahadith, and both of those are again testament to the fact that Islam categorically rejects extremism and terrorism.
Reply

ajr
11-14-2015, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by Search
I really am sorry, sis, that you feel that way. However, I stand by my statement because Islam is a "living" religion. Prophet sallalalhu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) had stated in prophetic tradition that ulema (scholars) are the inheritors of prophets, and our ulema (scholars) have by consensus rejected extremism and terrorism. Prophet sallalalhu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) also said that the way to determine which Muslims are on the right path is to "stick" so-to-speak with the majority. And the majority of Muslims all over the world reject extremism and terrorism as well. Prophet sallalalhu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) also said that we would not go astray as long as we accept follow the Quran and ahadith, and both of those are again testament to the fact that Islam categorically rejects extremism and terrorism.

Originally Posted by ajr
Astaghfirullah!!!!....you are speaking on behalf of the Rasul (SAW)...i am shocked, walahi...Tauba, Tauba, Tauba
tafadhal...
Reply

Leoprecordia
11-14-2015, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by ajr
The French is Kufar, i really care little, so you can take it to them on a silver platter!!!;D....Does that answer you...i did mention it throughout my posts...lol...i like you the way you feel the need to interrogate me an speak to me like im your child...
You're going to get spoken to by how you portray yourself. Naturally, you avoided everyone's questions so I needed to make a point to keep it as simple as possible to finally get a straight answer out of you. Your answers in the previous posts were open-ended and indirect. You were trying to be clever. I'm a more direct person.

But now it's clear, you side with Islamic extremists and you condone attacks on innocent civilians. You share the mentality of a terrorist. You believe that all people who live in a country under a corrupt government support their actions and are equally guilty. You're just like the followers of Abu Sufyan and the people the Prophet (SAW) warned us about. If that's the case, then going by your mentality, I should blame you for the deaths of some members of my family at the hands of Islamic extremists since you support their cause.

You're disgusting.
Reply

AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
The fact that you resorted to condemning mujahideen fi sabeel Allah before any motive being implied or clarified sends off a spark of light as to your intentions. However Allah knows best.
Do you carry the Daesh thinking ? ^o)
Reply

AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 07:57 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
Why then ISIS so eagerly claims responsibility of this attack? Do you think they only read about it from the news and rushed to claim they did it? ^o)
Sister Deash or Isis do claim reponsability to any terrorist attack, just like Al Queda they claimed to have done 9/11 while know exactly who done it.

Tunisia lived two false flags today, Isis in libya said that it's the reponsible, they are a bunch of liers and murderors...
Reply

syed_z
11-14-2015, 07:57 PM
Asalaam O Alaikum....

Every Muslims at this forum and outside should condemn this attack. This is a very sad and tragic event, this is terrorism....

Islam teaches us the message of peace and love and mercy towards all humans. Allah (swt) says in the Quran to stand up for truth and justice even if it is against one's own parents, against one's ownself....

We should stand and condemn this act if it truly has been committed by certain misguided young minded youth from among the Muslims. Pakistan, my own country, faced similar terrorism from these individuals who attacked a children school and killed almost 150 children....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_P...chool_massacre

The non-muslims are not the only one who face attacks of these individuals, its also us, Muslims who do almost every day in different parts of the Muslim world....

The Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahu Alaihi Wassallam) himself warned us against these individuals who will misinterpret the Quran and harm others through their incorrect interpretation. The 4th Rightly Guided Caliph Ali (r.a) even fought a battle against them and they came to be known in the history of Islam as Khawarij (Dissenters/Separaters/outgoers)

They recite the Holy Qur’aan but it does not exceed the limits of their throat.

.... but they will desert Islam (go out of religion) as an arrow goes through the victim's body (game etc.)


[Sahih Bukhari, Vol 8, The Book of Al-Adab (Good manners) Chapter 95, Hadith Number 6163 (Also see vol. 4 Hadith no. 3610)]

But our Beloved Prophet (Saw) warned that they would continue to appear before the end of the world from within Muslims from time to time. Certainly that has been the case.

The same day of the Paris Attack the following Muslims countries also faced attacks from these Khawarij:

Bomb kills Yemen worshippers at mosque in Houthi-dominated region - reports

Suicide bomber kills at least 18 in Baghdad – reports

https://www.rt.com/news/line/


As Muslims we condemn all acts of terrorism by all individuals whether they are from Muslims or Non Muslims.
Reply

AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by Leoprecordia
But now it's clear, you side with Islamic extremists and you condone attacks on innocent civilians. You share the mentality of a terrorist. You believe that all people who live in a country under a corrupt government support their actions and are equally guilty. You're just like the followers of Abu Sufyan and the people the Prophet (SAW) warned us about. If that's the case, then going by your mentality, I should blame you for the deaths of some members of my family at the hands of Islamic extremists since you support their cause.

You're disgusting.
They will never understand that killing one soul is like killing the souls of all humans, they can never understand that!

We blame the sheikhs that they are following without using their minds, they are just sheeps led blindly by their masters

oh, maybe we need to stop speeking, maybe they will call us kuffars, we never know their reactions, they already showed their real faces, and the whole world know who are they... :skeleton:
Reply

AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 08:13 PM
I wonder who told these kind of thinking people that members here don't pray fajr ?
How could they judge people ?
Who told them that we don't pray for our other muslim brothers in these countries in our daily prayers ?
Do they have an angel speaking to them or something ?
Reply

farhan
11-14-2015, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
Bro Farhan, how can you let such people enter the forum and spread fitna, how can you do that ???
Don't worry we will look into it as staff, and clean up the thread as soon as we can.

Please report anything that breaks the forum rules and any posts that you think needs review. :jz:
Reply

AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by فرحان
Don't worry we will look into it as staff, and clean up the thread as soon as we can.

Please report anything that breaks the forum rules and any posts that you think needs review. :jz:
Really man really ? the whole thread didn't only break the rules of the forums but also broke the rules of humanity!

You need to clean up the forum man and banish these paralysed thinkings, WAKE UP!! this is your responsability!!!
Reply

syed_z
11-14-2015, 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by فرحان
This is very strange indeed! No matter how big the attack is, the I.D will always survive and used as proof.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News...-bombers-.html



Salaam Brother Farhan... I agree with what you've posted, definitely the conspiracy element is found in all of these attacks that have taken place in the Western cities in the past decade or more.... for example the Charles De Gaulle the only aircraft carrier that has nuclear capability and is the major source of French Military might was already planned to dispatched to Syrian waters before this attack even took place...this attack will support the expedition to Syria....


France's only aircraft carrier to leave for Middle East on Wednesday

The only aircraft carrier in the French Navy’s fleet, the Charles de Gaulle, will leave for the Persian Gulf on November 18, to join the fight against Islamic State in the region, Paris has confirmed. France announced the deployment of its only aircraft carrier against Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) on November 5.

https://www.rt.com/news/321873-france-aircraft-carrier-Syris/


....but we cannot ignore the fact that these puritanist, zealot minded individuals who claim to hold the only correct interpretation of all aspects of the Islamic Din (Way of life) without any tolerance or room for others, always provide pretext for West to intervene in our Muslim countries do exist as well....


They have been prophesied by the Messenger of Allah (SallAllahu Alaihi Wassalam) and they appeared like the Horn (Qarn) of Shaytan (Qarn also means age/time/epoch).... they have divided a Muslim from his brother and sister and father and mother through their incorrect interpretation....

One of their Characteristics that Messenger of Allah (sallAllahu Alaihi Wassallam) prophesied was that they take Verses that refer to disbelievers and apply it to believers....

Verily, they take verses that were revealed about unbelievers and make them against the believers.

...by doing so they give Fatwa of Takfir (declare kafir/disbelieve) against their own Muslims brothers and sisters and declare their blood to be spilled. This has been happening in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria...



Kadyrov calls for Muslims worldwide to unite to defeat ISIS

https://www.rt.com/politics/321548-k...r-all-muslims/
Reply

Abz2000
11-14-2015, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by Leoprecordia
You're going to get spoken to by how you portray yourself. Naturally, you avoided everyone's questions so I needed to make a point to keep it as simple as possible to finally get a straight answer out of you. Your answers in the previous posts were open-ended and indirect. You were trying to be clever. I'm a more direct person.

But now it's clear, you side with Islamic extremists and you condone attacks on innocent civilians. You share the mentality of a terrorist. You believe that all people who live in a country under a corrupt government support their actions and are equally guilty. You're just like the followers of Abu Sufyan and the people the Prophet (SAW) warned us about. If that's the case, then going by your mentality, I should blame you for the deaths of some members of my family at the hands of Islamic extremists since you support their cause.
L
You're disgusting.
I did notice some of the sisters posts as being open ended however she was mainly sticking to what Allah has directed us to and not the common stereotypes daily propagated by the mainstream kafir media against any Muslim who condemns the acts of the criminal kafir governments which i hope you see that you decided to forcefully and inaccurately bundle her as, may Allah guide us all. Rather than than this being a debate where we all throw eggsand insults at each other, wouldn't it be better to look at the root causes of these actions?
with all that said, i'll state my views clearly.

Number one: anybody who refuses to submit to Almighty God's rules, and is content with the vices of satan is either ignorant or criminal.
Number two:
Allah has brought us into a stage where all of mankind is in communication - no matter how far apart, it is better that we come together, understand the elevated and dignified way our creator has enjoined upon us and accept it unanimously as the way of life, however, since this he life of this world is a test and people have been given the guidance and opportunity to walk aright or stray, let those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and wish to live under the rules of Allah establish Islamic rule in the lands where they form a majority and live in peace, we can still trade with each other according to what is halal. It is foolish to push corrupt puppet dictators onto them and prod them till they lash out. Those who think that they can make their own rules and live by them - let them play jack the lad since ultimately we know that those who have power amongst them will make rules for them and use them until they wake up.
There is no logic whatsoever in banning hijab, banning mosques, banning people who spill out onto the streets at jumu'ah from praying, telling people who want to live the the laws of God that they should move out, setting corrupt secular dictators up as their rulers and then arresting them when they try to move to an Islamic State, while manipulating the Islamic state and bombing it's offices and workers and then crying and screaming foul after there's a minor reprisal in magnitude.

It's a global time with satellite debri and ocean waste affecting everyone, however the only way to peace appears to be separation of Kafir and Muslims, let people make their choice, you managed to force your hand for the zionists, what's your problem now?
Reply

Abz2000
11-14-2015, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
Really man really ? the whole thread didn't only break the rules of the forums but also broke the rules of humanity!

You need to clean up the forum man and banish these paralysed thinkings, WAKE UP!! this is your responsability!!!
Please don't place the burden of your inadequacy in presenting valid points or debating an issue objectively on the mods by pressuring them to corner a clearly important discussion, the brother has given his viewpoint and is in no way responsible for our posts.
You're new here and maybe aren't aware that we have these polarizing discussions once in a while, it also helps us to know the truthful from the munafiqs because true colours show at times like these.

Since some of us are making claims to know what the Prophet pbuh would have done, let's look into a little of his biography and his actions in similarly fuzzy situations:

The whole lecture is eventful however for those with less time, scroll to 20 minutes.
Reply

AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
Please don't place the burden of your inadequacy in presenting valid points or debating an issue objectively on the mods by pressuring them to corner a clearly important discussion, the brother has given his viewpoint and is in no way responsible for our posts.
You're new here and maybe aren't aware that we have these polarizing discussions once in a while, it also helps us to know the truthful from the munafiqs because true colours show at times like these.
If you don't feel that we need to prevent the people who call to kill innocent people then this is your own opinion and it's well respected by ISIS.
Reply

czgibson
11-14-2015, 09:11 PM
Greetings,

Our first thoughts should be with those who have lost loved ones. Frankly, I'm surprised this thread has been allowed to continue in the manner it has.

Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
I don't know, but this thread started to be shameful not only to us but to Islam itself...

Any non muslim who will enter this thread will see that Muslims are still discussing about the basics of humanity or if it's permissible or not to kill an innocent life.

Such a shame, right ?
Agreed. It's utterly shameful that some members here feel free to defend, justify or identify with those who take innocent lives. The commitment to a simplistic 'us and them' way of thinking will only perpetuate hatred and violence, as the career of (for example) George W. Bush has demonstrated.

I have nothing but praise for those here who have repeatedly and patiently pointed out that all killing of innocents is wrong and that the teachings of Islam do not authorise attacks like those in Paris last night.

Peace
Reply

sister herb
11-14-2015, 09:17 PM
The purpose of those attacks were spread fear among the people as well separate us who still believe the humanity - Muslims or non-Muslims.

Don´t let them to blow out the flame of hope and humanity.

Reply

syed_z
11-14-2015, 09:43 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
The purpose of those attacks were spread fear among the people as well separate us who still believe the humanity - Muslims or non-Muslims.

Don´t let them to blow out the flame of hope and humanity.



Yes agreed. But when this mind set prevails at this forum and no body stops it then who is to blame for that? We all would be responsible if this is prevalent where at least we can put a stop to it...
Reply

Leoprecordia
11-14-2015, 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
I did notice some of the sisters posts as being open ended however she was mainly sticking to what Allah has directed us to
Allah (SWT) directed us to kill innocent people?

[Quran 2:190-192] "And fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allaah does not love those who exceed the limits. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque (in Makkah) until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the reward of the unbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allaah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors."

[Quran 17:33] "Nor take life -- which Allah has made sacred -- except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law).."

Originally Posted by Abz2000
you decided to forcefully and inaccurately bundle her as
Clearly...

Originally Posted by Abz2000
wouldn't it be better to look at the root causes of these actions?
Yes, we can start by looking at the Qur'an and Islam's perspective on harming innocent people. Refer to explicit Qur'anic verses above for starters.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
Number one: anybody who refuses to submit to Almighty God's rules, and is content with the vices of satan is either ignorant or criminal.
Am I to understand that you're accusing the innocent people who died last night of being criminals?

Originally Posted by Abz2000
Number two:
Allah has brought us into a stage where all of mankind is in communication - no matter how far apart, it is better that we come together, understand the elevated and dignified way our creator has enjoined upon us and accept it unanimously as the way of life, however, since this he life of this world is a test and people have been given the guidance and opportunity to walk aright or stray, let those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and wish to live under the rules of Allah establish Islamic rule in the lands where they form a majority and live in peace, we can still trade with each other according to what is halal. It is foolish to push corrupt puppet dictators onto them and prod them till they lash out. Those who think that they can make their own rules and live by them - let them play jack the lad since ultimately we know that those who have power amongst them will make rules for them and use them until they wake up.
This I agree with.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
There is no logic whatsoever in banning hijab, banning mosques, banning people who spill out onto the streets at jumu'ah from praying, telling people who want to live the the laws of God that they should move out, setting corrupt secular dictators up as their rulers and then arresting them when they try to move to an Islamic State, while manipulating the Islamic state and bombing it's offices and workers and then crying and screaming foul after there's a minor reprisal in magnitude.
You're still grouping innocent civilians with the actions of their government officials. If people are ignorant, let them be ignorant. Sadly, most people will follow what their governments tell them because it provides them mental security and peace. But being ignorant doesn't make you a criminal. I dare you to try to tell me that all those 120+ people who were killed last night were perpetrators and supporters of violence and sanctions against Muslims.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
you managed to force your hand for the zionists, what's your problem now?
My "problem" is with people like you who claim to speak in the name of Islam but are incredibly misguided.
Reply

BilalKid
11-14-2015, 09:56 PM
want to share this:peace:

Europe:
  • Grand Mosque of Paris condemns terrorist attacks as well as appeals for national unity and mourning. They're asking the Muslim community to donate blood to help the victims and to pray for France. (links in French)
  • Hassen Chalghoumi, imam of the Drancy mosque in Paris’s Seine-Saint-Denis suburb: “These are criminals, barbarians. They have sold their soul to Hell. This is not freedom. This is not Islam and I hope the French will come out united at the end of this.”
  • Union of Islamic Organizations of France has responded, calling the attack "abject barbarism" and echoing calls for the Muslim community to donate blood and for French citizens to stay united in this crisis.
  • The French Muslim Council hasn't yet updated their website but have been extremely loud against ISIS and terrorists who target France. "This is a thunderous declaration of war. The times have changed. We’re entering a new phase of this confrontation… we are horrified by the brutality and the savagery,” imam Dalil Boubakeur was quoted as saying.
  • Muslim Council of Britain responsds to the attack, saying there's nothing "Islamic" about ISIS, and supports justice for the victims
  • Bosnian reisu-l-ulema (highest Muslim clerical authority in the country) issued a statement: "I most seriously condemn the terrorist attacks in Paris and the murder of innocent people. The Islamic Community and Muslims of Bosnia and Herzegovina express their deepest condolences and solidarity with the French people in their pain. We remember the support and solidarity of the French citizens from the recent history when we first-hand experienced fearmongering and terror. I especially call upon the Muslims of Europe to preserve peace and remember that terrorists do not represent our faith nor our community, and that terrorism cannot be justified morally, religiously or politically."

North America:


World:

  • Pakistani leaders from all parties condemn attacks
  • Saudi Arabia: The “heinous” Paris attacks are a violation of all religions and underline the need to intensify efforts against “terrorism,” Saudi Arabia's foreign minister said Saturday. “I wanted to express our condolences to the government and people of France for the heinous terrorist attacks that took place yesterday which are in violation and contravention of all ethics, morals and religions,” Adel al-Jubeir told reporters in Vienna. “The kingdom of Saudi Arabia has long called for more intensified international efforts to combat the scourge of terrorism in all its forms and shapes,” he said.
  • Iran: All Iranian political parties have issued condemnations of the attack as well as attacks in Beirut and Baghdad. Iranian president Hassan Rouhani has sent a message to French President Francois Hollande condemning the terror attacks in Paris. The state-run IRNA news agency quoted Rouhani as saying Saturday that Iran “itself has been a victim of the scourge of terrorism” and the fight against terrorism must go on. Rouhani also canceled visits to France and Italy, due in a few days. The Vice President sent a message to the French Premier expressing sympathy for the victims and praying for France's prosperity.
  • Egypt: Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi has condemned the Paris attacks and is conveying condolences to the victims. A statement from his office on Saturday called for “concerted international efforts” to combat “the scourge of terrorism, which aims to destabilize security and stability in various parts of the world, without distinction.” The head of Sunni Islam's leading seat of learning, Cairo's Al-Azhar, on Saturday condemned “hateful” attacks in Paris that killed more than 120 people and urged global unity against extremism. “We denounce this hateful incident,” Ahmed al-Tayyeb told a conference in comments broadcast by Egyptian state television. “The time has come for the world to unite to confront this monster." “Such acts are contrary to all religious, humanitarian and civilised principles,” Tayyeb said at the opening of the conference in the southern city of Luxor focused on combating “extremist thought”.
  • Indonesia: Indonesia's President strongly condemned terrorism and called for the upcoming G-20 summit to address this together. "I express deep sorrow for the victims of terrorism and violence in Paris, and also to the government and the people of France," President Jokowi remarked. In the condolences conveyed by Jokowi shortly before his departure to Turkey, the president stated that terrorism, for any reason and in any form, cannot be tolerated. "The government and people of Indonesia strongly condemned the violence and atrocities that occurred in Paris on Friday," the Head of State reiterated.
  • Maldives: Message from the President "The Maldives strongly condemns these cowardly acts of terror perpetuated against innocent people. We stand firm in our commitment to supporting shared human values, and will continue to work closely with France and the international community as a whole in eliminating the scourge of terrorism."
Reply

AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by Leoprecordia
You're still grouping innocent civilians with the actions of their government officials. If people are ignorant, let them be ignorant. Sadly, most people will follow what their governments tell them because it provides them mental security and peace. But being ignorant doesn't make you a criminal. I dare you to try to tell me that all those 120+ people who were killed last night were perpetrators and supporters of violence and sanctions against Muslims.
You know bro, i have a diploma in the french language, literature and civilization... I know a lot about France and a bout their people, many of them dislike Muslims just because they are Muslims, others do respect Muslims and they hate their government.

First, we can't kill the french citizens who dislike us because they didn't do any harm to us yet
As for the other french citizens, we can see them as our allies because they are defending us, and i have many friends from France who share this mentality.

We can't blew up bombs like that, because this kind of arms can't make difference between Muslims and Non Muslims, the hateful non muslim and the respectful non muslim... what if the explosion killed Muslims ?

I'm sure they are going to say they are shuhadas (martyrs) lol lame thinkings :D
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Leoprecordia
11-14-2015, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by AhmedGassama
You know bro, i have a diploma in the french language, literature and civilization... I know a lot about France and a bout their people, many of them dislike Muslims just because they are Muslims, others do respect Muslims and they hate their government.

First, we can't kill the french citizens who dislike us because they didn't do any harm to us yet
As for the other french citizens, we can see them as our allies because they are defending us, and i have many friends from France who share this mentality.

We can't blew up bombs like that, because this kind of arms can't make difference between Muslims and Non Muslims, the hateful non muslim and the respectful non muslim... what if the explosion killed Muslims ?

I'm sure they are going to say they are shuhadas (martyrs) lol lame thinkings :D

Exactly, I couldn't agree with you more. And yeah I'm expecting those shahada remarks. A sick excuse for a terrible and un-Islamic act. I full well understand how the French community can be very racist, and all their laws taking away rights from Muslims. That has always bothered me, but that doesn't excuse harming innocent people as you said. It's pathetic we have people here defending such tyrannical perspectives.
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Abz2000
11-14-2015, 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by Leoprecordia
Allah (SWT) directed us to kill innocent people?

[Quran 2:190-192] "And fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allaah does not love those who exceed the limits. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque (in Makkah) until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the reward of the unbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allaah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors."

[Quran 17:33] "Nor take life -- which Allah has made sacred -- except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law).."



Clearly...



Yes, we can start by looking at the Qur'an and Islam's perspective on harming innocent people. Refer to explicit Qur'anic verses above for starters.
The verses speak clearly, the unlawful actions of the french government are criminal.

Originally Posted by Leoprecordia

Am I to understand that you're accusing the innocent people who died last night of being criminals?
If they claim to live happily in a democracy and vote their leaders into power in order to manage their taxes and affairs and nlawfully kill people in Muslim lands - YES.

Originally Posted by Leoprecordia
This I agree with.
MashaAllah, Allah likes that we come together upon truth and not let the schisms we may sometimes have with each other prevent us from coming to fairness and justice and gaining the blessings of Allah.

[quote]

Originally Posted by Leoprecordia
You're still grouping innocent civilians with the actions of their government officials. If people are ignorant, let them be ignorant. Sadly, most people will follow what their governments tell them because it provides them mental security and peace. But being ignorant doesn't make you a criminal. I dare you to try to tell me that all those 120+ people who were killed last night were perpetrators and supporters of violence and sanctions against Muslims.
As i said earlier, do they claim that their government doesn't work for them and is not subject to them?
if so they are free from it's criminal actions
If not, then the form of government is not democraric, and is claiming to be against Islamic state and Assad for what? Shouldn't they define their way of life instead of claiming to be democratic, yet oppressing minorities, installing corrupt dictators wherever they gain some influence, then demanding that they not be held responsible for the actions of their government?

Originally Posted by Leoprecordia
My "problem" is with people like you who claim to speak in the name of Islam but are incredibly misguided.
I'll sincerely seek refuge in Allah from claiming to speak in the name of Islam while being incredibly misguided, and pray that Allah guides me closer to the straight path, and let Allah be the judge of my inner and outer deeds, and that He forgives me when i fall short despite sincerely trying to walk aright.

Brother, one question, do you believe that every type of people in every split up land under every type of law, and every corrupt way should be celebrated while the Muslim ummah lives like little stewart under them and suffers regular slander and abuse or do you believe we have a right to establish a government which implements the will and rule of Allah?
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BeTheChange
11-14-2015, 10:44 PM
Asalamualykum,

If Muslims are killed there is no or very little media coverage but if Non-Muslims are killed the whole world will know and will cry together.


Signs of Qiymat

Lies will prevail over truth

Bloodshed and anarchy will become common

Shameless immorality is perpetrated publicly
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najimuddin
11-14-2015, 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by BeTheChange
Asalamualykum,

If Muslims are killed there is no or very little media coverage but if Non-Muslims are killed the whole world will know and will cry together.
According to former US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, that's alright.

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TMGuide
11-14-2015, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by فرحان
Reports coming in that a Muslim woman was attacked with a glass bottle today in a masjid in London. Al Muntada Mosque. Sisters stay vigilant!
Subhananllaah, its always the woman who suffer because we are easier to recognize as Muslims with our hijab. May Allaah protect us.
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najimuddin
11-14-2015, 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by TMGuide
Subhananllaah, its always the woman who suffer because we are easier to recognize as Muslims with our hijab. May Allaah protect us.
If only the men were recognizable as well.
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TMGuide
11-14-2015, 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by najimuddin
If only the men were recognizable as well.
It's sunnah for a man to follow certain guidelines in his dress and appearance (trousers above the ankles, beard ext), sad many choose to leave it off.
Reply

AhmedGassama
11-14-2015, 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by najimuddin
If only the men were recognizable as well.
We are in days where we wish that no one knows our true identity because of these terrorists

Anyhow, we wish that neither men nor women get recognized :)
Reply

MuslimInshallah
11-14-2015, 11:48 PM
Originally Posted by ajr
The French is Kufar, i really care little
Assalaamu alaikum Ajr,


Mmm... "The French is..."? (gently) Are all the people of France one faceless entity in your mind?

"Kufar"... (gently) Really, Ajr? How do you know? Can you peer into the knowledge that belongs to Allah Only, and Know the hearts of all the many millions of people in France?

(pensively) You know, I have recently been working on helping Syrian refugees come to Canada. And I remember speaking with a man who felt that it was wrong to talk of helping refugees, when there are veterans who are suffering and forgotten. (mildly) But it seems to me that if you truly care about one group that is suffering and unjustly treated, then you will care about all people who are suffering and unjustly treated. Is it not possible (I suggested to this man), that we could work to improve the lives of more than one group of people? Could we not try to help whomever has been harmed by war... whether it be ex-soldiers or whether it be civilians?

Furthermore, is it not possible to simultaneously support justice for indigenous peoples, for refugees, for minorities, for the poor... for whomever suffers injustice? Indeed, is it possible to truly speak of justice, unless we wish it for all people?

Some people seem to feel that caring is something that is finite, and that therefore, if you have more people to care about, that the amount you care for each person is less. (smile) But as a mother of six children, I do assure you that love does not divide... it multiplies. (smile) The more people you love, the greater the love in your heart. (gently) And I believe that the more people we can feel compassion for, the more compassionate we become. (smile) And is not Allah Ar-rahmaan, Ar-raheem? Are not compassion/love/mercy/kindness qualities that we should cultivate within ourselves? To Please God?

I care about the peoples of Burma. And Chechnya. And Brazil. And Indonesia. And Africa. And Europe. And... (smile) you get the picture... After all, is not every person Allah's creation?

Yes, we must take steps to intervene to do what is good and right... to the extent that Allah Gifts us with. And sometimes we must (if we can) stop a person or a group of persons from wrongdoing. Not only to help those who are wronged, but also as a kindness to the wrongdoers.

(gently) Finally, venting our anger and hatred towards random strangers of whom we know very little... this is not the behaviour of the Sabireen (those that restrain themselves). Yes, someone may be engaging in sinful actions. (gentle smile) But who is free from sin? Allah and His Final Prophet have taught us that even animals and plants should be treated with care and not made to suffer. Hunting down random people, terrifying them, and then injuring and killing them... now can we possibly justify this?

It is wrong when an American does it. It is wrong when an Israeli does it. And it is wrong when a Muslim does it. Does it happen? Yes. But Allah Teaches us to repel evil with good. Not by perpetrating wrong. And any form of compensation for wrong, of retribution... must be just and measured. (gently) Because any excess will be counted as a sin against us, even if we were the first wronged.

(gently) Please consider my words Ajr, my sister.


May Allah, the Forgiving, the Compassionate, Help us to look past our wounds... and find His Healing.
Reply

IslamicRevival
11-15-2015, 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by ajr
The French is Kufar, i really care little, so you can take it to them on a silver platter!!!;D
French Muslims do exist..but either way non Muslim or not it's irrelevant because harming innocent 'human beings' is prohibited, period. It's a basic principle of humanity at large and no Muslim can possibly justify these attacks.

I understand Muslims are suffering all around the world, I also understand what happened in France is a daily occurrence in Palestine, Syria, Iraq and many other countries worldwide however we shouldn't allow seperate incidents to cloud our judgment. We feel for Muslims and non Muslims alike who are oppressed all over the globe but do not be fooled by ISIS, IE Israeli Secret Intelligence Service. It's a well known fact they are a creation of the west and the leader of this movement, who's real name is Simon Elliot is a mossad agent.

I pray common sense reaches those who are clearly misguided in their understanding.
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syed_z
11-15-2015, 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
Brother, one question, do you believe that every type of people in every split up land under every type of law, and every corrupt way should be celebrated while the Muslim ummah lives like little stewart under them and suffers regular slander and abuse or do you believe we have a right to establish a government which implements the will and rule of Allah?

There is a saying of Hazrat Isa (a.s) "Kingdom of heaven needs to be established in the heart first"


there is a process of education, dawah and tarbiyah that precedes before anything can be established on earth....foolish ones try to establish on earth before it is established in the heart thus causing more Fitnah... and the following Verse applies for them...

Surah Kahf 103-104

Say, [O Muhammad], "Shall we [believers] inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds?

[They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work."


...MashA'Allah surprisingly Imam Ali Ibn Abi Talib (r.a) in his comments on the above Verse referred that it applies to the Haruriya (A place called Harura where Khawarij established their center)

...And so the Khawarij/extremists of today try to put Last what Allah (swt) and His Messenger (Saw) put 1st and they put 1st what Allah (swt) and His Messenger (Saw) put last....

The Messenger (Saw) did not establish Islamic Law as a penal code until the people to whom he was doing Dawah were ready to accept with their hearts and minds...and it took 10 years to work on them ...and even after that his focus and the Quran's focus is that greatest Jihad is the Self Reformation, rather than reformation of the society with a sword...

Jesus’ statement “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her” Book of John

What Hazrat Isa (a.s) meant was that how can you establish the book of God when you yourselves are unequipped to understand its implementation and when you yourselves are not reformed....

May Allah (swt) guide us all...
Reply

Physicist
11-15-2015, 02:22 AM
كراهية التسرع في الحكم (disapproval of hasty judgement)

My main feeling about what is going on. Can't explain clearly but feel it's a most important now.
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Pygoscelis
11-15-2015, 02:40 AM
That said, I am pleased to see so many Muslims here speaking against this kind of terrorism, and not trying to shift the focus to other tragedy. Yes, there are atrocities and suffering done against group A. That doesn't make atrocity and suffering of Group B any less important or terrible. We are all human. Try to see that, instead of dividing us and demonizing the other "side".
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syed_z
11-15-2015, 03:23 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
That said, I am pleased to see so many Muslims here speaking against this kind of terrorism, and not trying to shift the focus to other tragedy. Yes, there are atrocities and suffering done against group A. That doesn't make atrocity and suffering of Group B any less important or terrible. We are all human. Try to see that, instead of dividing us and demonizing the other "side".


Our Beloved Messenger of Allah (saw) said " Help your brother if he is oppressed or oppressor." The Companions asked "O Messenger of Allah (Saw) we understand helping the oppressed but how can we help the oppressor?" To which He (saw) replied "by stopping him!"

InshA'Allah for the sake of Allah (swt) and all His creation we are never going to side with the Muslims who oppress regardless of how great they might claim to be or how pious they might look.

There are Muslim brothers and sisters here and out there who condemn this act because Allah (swt), Al Mighty God Himself defined the righteous ones in the Quran .."They Enjoin What is Good and Forbid What is Wrong and Believe in Allah.."

It is our sacred duty to do so. I hope and I pray that may Allah (swt) unite our hearts as one!
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Mr.President
11-15-2015, 03:46 AM
Summery - who ever lives under a government muslim or non muslim ISIS will terror attack you and call it retaliation libaration

They do not care that u r innocent its simply cuz u do not agree with them

Reply

Physicist
11-15-2015, 05:43 AM
Originally Posted by Mr.President
Summery - who ever lives under a government muslim or non muslim ISIS will terror attack you and call it retaliation libaration

They do not care that u r innocent its simply cuz u do not agree with them
Not sure even if they care if you are agree or disagree with what they are saying, because liers don't really care about their lies.
Well, blindfolded ordinary warriors may care, not those who command them.
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farhan
11-15-2015, 07:21 AM
Hmm... how come the media never reported this guy? "Muslim hero saves the Stade de France"

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farhan
11-15-2015, 07:55 AM
An insight from Hollywood writer Kamran Pasha! Indestructible passports :O. Why would the killers even take their passport with them?

In Hollywood, we sit around a writers rooms coming up with stories together. Inevitably we come across a logical stumbling block, such as: "OK, so the bad guy blows himself up, but we need the good guy to then track down his evil organization so that he can fight them in the climactic finale. How do we solve this problem?" Someone will pipe up: "He had his passport on him so we can then ID the bad guys!" Everyone says: "Yes! That's it!" And then there is always the one voice in the room (usually me) that will say: "Um, but wouldn't the passport be blown up in the explosion?" Silence for a few moments. And then the boss will say: "That is what we call an "asshole question." 99% of people won't think out the logic that far, and only an asshole would bring it up to ruin the story. Let's do it, and move on to the next episode."
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Ridwaan Ravat
11-15-2015, 08:15 AM
Please circulate

Wise advice from Br. Ismail Patel (FoA)

Some thoughts on Paris attacks

1. Attacking innocent civilians whether in Paris, London, Gaza or Syria etc is completely unjustified and unislamic.

2. As of yet we don't know who did the attacks and for what reason. Remember Anders Breivik, a Christian Norwegian rightwing nationalist, bombed and killed over 70 people mostly children. But sadly we can see many people including the media quickly jumping to conclusions as to who did it and why. We will see analysts and "experts" discuss the issue without any knowledge who will implicitly pin the blame on Islam and Muslims.

3. IF blamed on individual Muslims then such attacks will be used by western govts to deflect blame from their foreign and domestic policy towards the problem being inherent within Islam and the Muslim community. Hence they'll claim that Islam needs to change and Muslims must do more because they are "collectively culpable" in these attacks even though Muslims are unaware of who perpetrated and do not in anyway condone and support these attacks.

4. This will radicalise the wider non Muslim community who will then increase their attacks against Islam and Muslims particularly the most vulnerable members like lone travelling Muslim sisters or elderly Muslims.

5. This will also be used to further justify an aggressive foreign policy which will only exacerbate the anger and hate that creates the problem in the first place. This is due to the fact that further bombings and killings of civilian populations in Muslim lands will forment further anger.

6. Further laws will be implemented to monitor mosques, Madrassas and the wider Muslim community. This completely misses the problem which isn't born out of the mosques or the Muslim community. Just like Anders breivik wasn't born out of problems stemming from Sunday schools and singing hymns at church.

7. Muslims will be told to apologise and condemn as though they are guilty and culpable unless they've made it clear they don't support such criminal unislamic actions. Muslims will be told they "need to do more" to stop these attacks. No we didn't do this nor should we be blamed for the criminal actions of others. Nor should we be asked to apologise or questioned whether we agree or not with it. Such questions are offensive as they imply we somehow quietly acquiesce to such heinous crimes.

8. At difficult times like these holding onto Islam can become difficult. But we need to maintain our confidence on the deen and express that confidence to others. Remember we don't have anything to apologise for and our deen cannot be accused of any such crimes.

9. In fact western liberalism with its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which has killed hundreds of thousands, and the wests unfailing support for some of the worst kind of dictators like sisi, should stand accused of establishing a system not fit to protect the innocent.

10. Finally we pray to Allah swt that he makes it easy for all of us and keep us protected from all evil, and may Allah protect our ulama, our masajid, madaaris our youth. Ameen

Ps as advise to myself and others be sensible in your response on social media and sensitive to the current reality and not allow certain ppl to twist your words.
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DanEdge
11-15-2015, 08:15 AM
Thanks to all of you who responded with passion, sympathy, and love of life.

Some were concerned about how this conversation would look to non-Muslims. For myself, I was impressed - both by the outpouring of humanitarian emotion and the intelligent minds engaged in the exchange of ideas.

I am American. You are NOT my enemy. But we have a common enemy: those who would kill innocents in your name. I have no tolerance for them, nor for others who would count you among them.

Where do we go from here?

--Dan Edge
Reply

DanEdge
11-15-2015, 08:27 AM
Originally Posted by BilalKid
want to share this:peace:
This post in particular was very inspiring. Muslims around the world condemn these kinds of attacks. Likewise, Westerners should acknowledge that racism and violence against Muslims is unacceptable. Possibly, we could all share the Earth in Peace?

--Dan Edge
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Leoprecordia
11-15-2015, 08:38 AM
As brother Farhan brought up, I'd like to discuss those passports. Why is it that terrorists always have the best passports? I mean, hell, they had passports stay intact even when the WTC collapsed on top of them. Now they're immune to direct bomb explosions too. I'd sure like to know what they use to make their passports out of.
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Physicist
11-15-2015, 08:57 AM
I see nothing conspirous about passports.
They are used to carry the passports with them, as any other foreign-looking persons, to have less problems if get stopped by the police.
The passport, i suppose can survive blast if will be on the other side of the body, the shock wave passing through the flesh will be mostly reflected from the surface (sorry for such details).
Passports should be damaged of course but can be readable i think.
Anyway the passport doesn't prove the identity as it was reported in media before that syrian passports were sold out in big numbers.
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sister herb
11-15-2015, 09:28 AM
Originally Posted by Leoprecordia
As brother Farhan brought up, I'd like to discuss those passports. Why is it that terrorists always have the best passports? I mean, hell, they had passports stay intact even when the WTC collapsed on top of them. Now they're immune to direct bomb explosions too. I'd sure like to know what they use to make their passports out of.
I think they keep passports with them on purpose. They may even protect them well so they don´t destroy in explosion. That´s because they want to tell you who they are, so that they and their group will have the "honor" about the attack. It´s like further evidence, when some group have announced the responsibility.

Or to the conspiracy therories: secret agents have large variety of fake passports, which they leave beside of the body of attacker. Now they left Syrian passport (person had traveled via Greece): it gives one more excuse to bomb Syria and end refugee transportation via Greece to Europe.

But I don´t really believe to those conspiracy theories - they will born after every attack and only limit for them is our own imagination, without any evidencies.
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farhan
11-15-2015, 10:27 AM
Originally Posted by Leoprecordia
As brother Farhan brought up, I'd like to discuss those passports. Why is it that terrorists always have the best passports? I mean, hell, they had passports stay intact even when the WTC collapsed on top of them. Now they're immune to direct bomb explosions too. I'd sure like to know what they use to make their passports out of.
Well.. this is a surprise :rolleyes:

Paris attacks: Passport found near assailant 'may be fake'A Syrian passport found near one of the Paris attackers may be fake, according to a US intelligence official.

According to CBS News, a US intelligence official said the travel document did not contain the proper numbers for a Syrian passport and the name didn't match the photograph.

The name and photograph in the passport weren't known to intelligence officials, the source also said.
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-...t-may-be-fake/
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Abz2000
11-15-2015, 10:32 AM
Originally Posted by syed_z
Our Beloved Messenger of Allah (saw) said " Help your brother if he is oppressed or oppressor." The Companions asked "O Messenger of Allah (Saw) we understand helping the oppressed but how can we help the oppressor?" To which He (saw) replied "by stopping him!"
Did you stop the french government from its thousands of atrocities in the past few months?
The overt bombing campaign began in september.

Originally Posted by syed_z
InshA'Allah for the sake of Allah (swt) and all His creation we are never going to side with the Muslims who oppress regardless of how great they might claim to be or how pious they might look.
It is becoming evident that you prefer to side with the kuffar who oppress regardless if how evil and irrational they are.

Originally Posted by syed_z
There are Muslim brothers and sisters here and out there who condemn this act because Allah (swt), Al Mighty God Himself defined the righteous ones in the Quran .."They Enjoin What is Good and Forbid What is Wrong and Believe in Allah.."
Qul qitaalun feehi kabeerun - WA suaddun 'an sabeel Allah, wa kufrun bihi, wa al masjid al haraam, ikhraaju ahlihi etc etc etc.


It is our sacred duty to do so. I hope and I pray that may Allah (swt) unite our hearts as one![/QUOTE]

It is indeed our sacred duty to ondemn oppression, and the kuffar of France became an embodiment of that oppression.
Their account is not yet even, they can save themselves by sincerely repenting to Allah, for the right of the Syrians to make nafs for nafs Qisas for all thise killed in French massacres and airstrikes has not been excercised.
Repent, or may Allah make qisas on behalf of the oppressed.


Chapter Name:Al-Anfal Verse No:38

8قُل لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ إِن يَنتَهُواْ يُغَفَرْ لَهُم مَّا قَدْ سَلَفَ وَإِنْ يَعُودُواْ فَقَدْ مَضَتْ سُنَّةُ الأَوَّلِينِ

{38*008:038*Khan:
Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven. But if they return (thereto), then the examples of those (punished) before them have already preceded (as a warning).

008:038*Maulana:
Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past will be forgiven them; and if they return, then the example of those of old has already gone.

008:038*Pickthal:
Tell those who disbelieve that if they cease (from persecution of believers) that which is past will be forgiven them; but if they return (thereto) then the example of the men of old hath already gone (before them, for a warning).

008:038*Rashad:
Tell those who disbelieved: if they stop, all their past will be forgiven. But if they return, they will incur the same fate as their previous counterparts.

008:038*Sarwar:
Muhammad, tell the unbelievers, if you give up your evil behavior, God will forgive whatever you have done in the past. But if you transgras again, your fate will be the same as that of those (unbelievers) who lived before you."

008:038*Shakir:
Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed.

008:038*Sherali:
Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past will be forgiven them; and if they return to their misdeeds, then verily the example of the former peoples has already gone before them.

008:038*Yusufali:
Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).
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Physicist
11-15-2015, 11:35 AM
I'm pleasantly surprised by the reaction in social networks.
Instead of expected growing hatred against refugees and against all muslims, i see, that those who were posting #PrayForParis, starting to understand the suffering of the people of the world, understand that we all are living on the one planet, now they are posting #PrayForTheWorld, #PrayForTheLybia, #PrayForTheIraq, #PrayForTheSyria, etc...
The world's wisdom is growing up!
This is not what was expected by those, who were planning these attacks. They rather were expecting growing hatred and request for isolation and starting the new crusade against muslims, use it as a justification of the increasing oppression worldwide.
There should start G20 summit these days and terrorist attacks were probably planned to affect it. Will see.
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Pygoscelis
11-15-2015, 11:39 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
It is becoming evident that you prefer to side with the kuffar who oppress regardless if how evil and irrational they are.
His being against so-called Muslims who murder innocent civilians and siding with the victims and those who wouldn't wish this on anybody, is siding with the evil kuffar who terrorize the world? Is this truly an us vs them thing for you? They say they are Muslim, so they can do no wrong, and the Kuffar can do no right? You'll always side with the Muslim, no matter what they do, because they are on your "team"? Is that it?
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sister herb
11-15-2015, 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by Physicist
I'm pleasantly surprised by the reaction in social networks.
Instead of expected growing hatred against refugees and against all muslims, i see, that those who were posting #PrayForParis, starting to understand the suffering of the people of the world, understand that we all are living on the one planet, now they are posting #PrayForTheWorld, #PrayForTheLybia, #PrayForTheIraq, #PrayForTheSyria, etc...
The world's wisdom is growing up!
This is not what was expected by those, who were planning these attacks. They rather were expecting growing hatred and request for isolation and starting the new crusade against muslims, use it as a justification of the increasing oppression worldwide.
There should start G20 summit these days and terrorist attacks were probably planned to affect it. Will see.
The flame of the hope and humanity is shining in the darkness.

In Finland yesterday people gathered to the streets and set light to the candles as the peace mark. Today here will be a march for peace, hope and humanity. Participants will be Christians, Jews and Muslims. There might be also some Atheists with them.

:D
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Physicist
11-15-2015, 11:52 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
... You'll always side with the Muslim, no matter what they do, because they are on your "team"? Is that it?
Just a little accent correction i'd like to add "with those who call themselves Muslim" instead of "Muslim".
Because "Muslim" is the absolute value, like if you would replace it with "those who are right".
This kind of little misinterpretations sometime lead to the great misunderstanding.
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Abz2000
11-15-2015, 02:03 PM
Sahih Muslim

by Imam Muslim, translation by Abdul Hamid Siddiqui ,
Volume: The Book Pertaining to the Merits of the Companions (Allah Be Pleased With Them) of the Holy Prophet (May Peace Be Upon Him)
(Kitab Al-Fada'il Al-Sahabah)
6097.

'A'idh b. Amr reported that Abu Sufyan came to Salman, Suhaib and Bilal in the presence of a group of persons. They said: By Allah, the sword of Allah did not reach the neck of the enemy of Allah as it was required to reach.
Thereupon Abu Bakr said: Do you say this to the elder of the Quraish and their chief?
Then he came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon'him) and informed him of this.
Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Abu Bakr, you have perhaps annoyed them and if you annoyed them you have in fact annoyed your Lord.
So Abu Bakr came to them and said: O my brothers, I have annoyed you.
They said: No, our brother, may Allah forgive you
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farhan
11-15-2015, 02:24 PM
I'm not trying to be some conspiracy theorist lol, but this is strange! Allah knows best if it's true.

The account was suspended afterwards.

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Muslim Woman
11-15-2015, 03:23 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by فرحان
I'm not trying to be some conspiracy theorist lol, but this is strange! Allah knows best if it's true.

The account was suspended afterwards.




pl. let us know if there is any follow up about this .
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Physicist
11-15-2015, 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
You'll always side with the Muslim, no matter what they do, because they are on your "team"? Is that it?
Well, this is a good question actually deserving to be answered as it is.
Last time i avoided clear answer because it touched my own old suppressed concern.

The concern is about possibility of long-therm planning of peacefull coexistance, fear that one day Muslim World, not just some extremists groups, will decide to conquer disbelievers and force them to accept Islam before the Judgement Day.

First of all, as an atheist, you can consider Islam as a moral values system and a political system altogether based on Quran, Hadiths, which understanding and interpretation is evolving in time in response to the changing world.
There are different political systems on this planet, sometime some are getting crazy and creating problems to the humanity, Islam history is far behind the worst examples.
The best humanity can do is to stay integrated, to learn the best from each other.
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Abz2000
11-15-2015, 04:49 PM
I was trying to find an e-book or pdf of mr nice, the autobiography of howard marks where he mentions that when he went on the run, he'd keep seeing these funny newspaper stories of how he'd died, been killed by the mafia, etc, one guy apparently confessed to killing him and burying him under a motorway, which is why when any "confessions" by immanuel goldstein like characters come out, history should always be kept in mind.

The reason i don't jump to the false flag stories straight away despite many of them being so is because of the "what if" factor that keeps getting pulled out, 9/11 is obvious to all with a normally functioning brain by now however some still manage to pluck up the courage to roll their eyes.
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farhan
11-15-2015, 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
:sl:

pl. let us know if there is any follow up about this .
Well it's getting more spookier :skeleton:.

A post from Reddit conspiracy:
The same account had used exactly the same casualty figures before, in September:

Death toll in Ebola outbreak rises to at least 120 with 270 others injured
https://twitter.com/PZbooks/status/640451583873011712

And then, this apparently related account "PZFeed"

AFP: Death toll from Nigerian mosque attack rises to at least 120 with 270 others injured http://tinyurl.com/og6lodu
https://twitter.com/pzf/status/538422123094888448

Which also gave us in January:
BREAKING NEWS: Death toll from Paris terror attack rises to at least 12 - Reuters

https://twitter.com/pzf/status/552801974991998976

Given the feed's apparent tactic of merging unrelated headlines to create content, I'm going with a pretty spooky coincidence.
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Physicist
11-15-2015, 06:28 PM
It's fake, kind of using bug of twitter to set wrong date.
I just have never used twitter, can't validate, but here is some video with explanation: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wl_Q0qKEd1E
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sister herb
11-15-2015, 06:38 PM
I think that this is so serious matter that we shouldn´t make this thread as the playground of conspiracy theorists!
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Physicist
11-15-2015, 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
I think that this is so serious matter that we shouldn´t make this thread as the playground of conspiracy theorists!
Indeed. All these conspiracies are just layers of lie to cover other lies.
كراهية التسرع في الحكم
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Abz2000
11-15-2015, 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
I think that this is so serious matter that we shouldn´t make this thread as the playground of conspiracy theorists!
They're all conspiracy theories, other than what is fact and Allah knows the facts well.
thirty people don't just spontaneously appear and carry out a co-ordinated attempt to rectify the tally on behalf of the Muslims who have been murdered, they would have to conspire first.
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Search
11-15-2015, 10:00 PM
:bism::sl: and hello:

Truth be told, I'm sorry for the people who senselessly lost their lives. I know that Allah SWT is never happy with senseless killing anywhere.

That being said, I'm very, very, very tired, tired of the direction in which this world is heading.

When I read comments' sections of any Internet news, I see so many hateful comments against Muslims and Islam; and I feel if they honestly feel even half those things in their heart that they openly write under the anonymity of the Internet, then indeed I know that is indeed a very bad sign for Muslims everywhere. Also, it is a bad sign for the liberty and justice as they'll always take a backseat in moments of wide panic and distress.

Other times, from a vocal minority of Muslims on social media and elsewhere on the Internet, upset at the endless wars and bloodshed in Muslim nations due to foreign intervention, state or propagate the idea that Muslims condemning attacks like those in Paris are somehow either "less of a Muslim" or a sympathizer to some nation's agenda or an apologist.

Sometimes, it feels like you can't win - no matter what.

Perhaps I'm taking the risk of sounding like a naive idiot, but I want peace. Peace. Seriously.

When I go out on the streets, for example, I don't want to be concerned that some non-Muslim might want to attack me or those in my position because they think that I'm somehow responsible for all the evil of the extremists. I also don't want to worry that some Muslim extremist will believe civilians (including me) walking the street are valid targets of vengeance simply because governments have taken actions responsible for lives lost elsewhere.

For all the differences that we as human beings, we share a common humanity. I think that should be the most important; that is what attracts me to Islam, the message of trying to make yourself and the world a better place by trying to live out the best character as exemplified in prophetic tradition.

Yes, we're all different, yet we're all the same too. I wish we'd remember the sameness when things like this happen.
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syed_z
11-15-2015, 11:20 PM
Salaam Brother... I wish and I sincerely pray that you try to understand the Khawarij (Extremist) mentality. They take Hadith and Verses of the Quran in their own way. They interpret them in isolation.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
Did you stop the french government from its thousands of atrocities in the past few months?
The overt bombing campaign began in september.
Holy Prophet (May be upon him) said: Beware. every one of you is a shepherd and every one is answerable with regard to his flock. The Caliph is a shepherd over the people and shall be questioned about his subjects (as to how he conducted their affairs). A man is a guardian over the members of his family and shall be questioned about them (as to how he looked after their physical and moral well-being). A woman is a guardian over the household of her husband and his children and shall be questioned about them (as to how she managed the household and brought up the children). A slave is a guardian over the property of his master and shall be questioned about it (as to how he safeguarded his trust). Beware, every one of you is a guardian and every one of you shall be questioned with regard to his trust. (Muslim Book #020, Hadith #4496)


..you and I will only be questioned about our jurisdiction and what did we do based on our influence and limited authority to help the oppressed. At this moment we can help the oppressed by educating people and helping financially and by providing moral and emotional support. It would be the Caliphs/Leaders of the Muslim world who have the responsibility of defending the oppressed because their jurisdiction is much more wider than yours and mine.

...So picking up arms to kill innocent civilians who don't even know what their western leaders are doing, is outright Zhulm (Injustice) and as Muslims we need to condemn if it comes from one of our own.


Originally Posted by Abz2000
It is indeed our sacred duty to ondemn oppression, and the kuffar of France became an embodiment of that oppression.
Their account is not yet even, they can save themselves by sincerely repenting to Allah, for the right of the Syrians to make nafs for nafs Qisas for all thise killed in French massacres and airstrikes has not been excercised.
Repent, or may Allah make qisas on behalf of the oppressed.

Who gives you the authority to make them repent? Repentance is a matter between an individual and His Lord Al Mighty. Did Allah (swt) reveal a secret revelation to you or ISIS that commands that they should go and take revenge on innocent populations in the world on behalf of Allah (swt)? Do you even understand the concept of Qisas that you are applying to this terrorist attack? Do you know how Qisas works?

Originally Posted by Abz2000
Chapter Name:Al-Anfal Verse No:38
008:038*Maulana:
Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past will be forgiven them; and if they return, then the example of those of old has already gone.[/quote]

This Ayah is a warning from Allah (swt) about the natural disasters that overtook people of the old times. This is in no way implying that Allah (swt) wants the believers to do His job.

Did the Prophet (Peace be upon him) send assassins to Makkah to target the pagan leaders of the Quraish tribe like Abu Sufyan and others who were in a land which was not only non Muslim but continuously hostile to Islam and Muslims of Madinah? Did he ever make a declaration of apostasy against the whole Makkan population and ordered his companions to attack and spill their blood on the caravan routes? He (saw) didn't even shed a single drop of blood when they had conquered Makkah.

Terrorism is act of Shaytan and not our Beloved Mercy for all Mankind (Peace be upon him). ISIS follows shaytan.
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Abz2000
11-16-2015, 01:29 AM
Syed z, please refrain from chatting utter crap, go read the Quran and the seerah before you start twisting and distorting Islam ok?
You sound like ka'b ibn ashraf telling the pagans that they were more guided than the Prophet pbuh because he was fighting against kith and kin, or like those fools who thought the prophet pbuh and the sahabah were evil because they raided the caravans of quraish despite the fact that it was mainly the leadership of Quraish was responsible for the oppression against the Muslims, or like the so called Muslims who were forced to come out against the Muslims at badr, go check up on the conquest of Makkah and the totally merited death sentences only cancelled upon repentance and shahadah, the command to people break idols ecen in their own homes.
Go do a little study of the law of qisas and don't you dare ever claim that you live in a democracy unless you're willing to bear the responsibility of the actions of your leaders.

Go ask your beloved president how he plans to pay penitence for the near to a million Muslims killed over the past ten years in the name of this false and manufactured war on terror.
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Abz2000
11-16-2015, 02:01 AM
What have you showed the world in the 100 years since 1914 other than false flags, bloody wars, mass murders and utter lies upon lies to the people of the planet, weapons of mass destruction, atomic bombs, the massacre in fallujah and the slaughter in the mosques, and corrupt elections, the enslavement and humuliation of Muslims, the prevention and sabotage against people who seek to understand Islam, the sabotage of the unity of Muslims and their attempts to erect real Islamic leadership?

If you don't like Islam and we all want peace, then at least don't harrass the Muslims in the lands where they are a majority and allow those who's way of life you can't agree with to migrate in peace and allow the Muslims to financially assist those who find it difficult to migrate, and if the kuffar choose to, let the kuffar live in confused decadence until they realise that peace and dignity come from submission to Allah.

The people of France and it's president had no valid reason to destabilise syria thousands of kilometers away, to prevent Muslims from living according to the law of Allah, to arrest people who were trying to migrate to the lands of Islam, or to start bombing the Syrian people last september.
They need to repent and beg Allah's forgiveness because the law of equal qisas is for humans, however, if Allah has to intervene it's a different story.

One thing that people do need to bear in mind however is that they have no right to kill more kuffar in France than number of Muslims the French kuffar have unjustly killed, but if they repent, establish regular prayer, and give regular zakah you must forgive them and let Allah reward you for your hurt and loss of loved ones.
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Mr.President
11-16-2015, 03:47 AM
After the attacks Now the french people will allow for a big defence budget

Cuz of these guys foolishnss now i dont know how many air strikes will take place

And the puppet khalifa will hide in the bunker while women children and men suffer air strikes

kharijites ********** [emoji35]
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syed_z
11-16-2015, 05:10 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
Syed z, please refrain from chatting utter crap, go read the Quran and the seerah before you start twisting and distorting Islam ok?
You sound like ka'b ibn ashraf telling the pagans that they were more guided than the Prophet pbuh because he was fighting against kith and kin, or like those fools who thought the prophet pbuh and the sahabah were evil because they raided the caravans of quraish despite the fact that it was mainly the leadership of Quraish was responsible for the oppression against the Muslims, or like the so called Muslims who were forced to come out against the Muslims at badr, go check up on the conquest of Makkah and the totally merited death sentences only cancelled upon repentance and shahadah, the command to people break idols ecen in their own homes.
Go do a little study of the law of qisas and don't you dare ever claim that you live in a democracy unless you're willing to bear the responsibility of the actions of your leaders.

Go ask your beloved president how he plans to pay penitence for the near to a million Muslims killed over the past ten years in the name of this false and manufactured war on terror.
I see that you are quite frustrated as the killing of innocent civilians has no basis in Islam whatsoever, unless God Himself has designated this task to people like ISIS, which obviously is impossible. I know that Allah (swt) will not ask me why President of France did so and so, but I tell you that ISIS minded individuals will have to do a lot of answering before Allah (swt) for what they're doing....

May Allah (Swt) guide you as your understanding of Islam is incorrect. Sadly :( for you killing any civilian is Qisas!
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Zafran
11-16-2015, 05:19 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
What have you showed the world in the 100 years since 1914 other than false flags, bloody wars, mass murders and utter lies upon lies to the people of the planet, weapons of mass destruction, atomic bombs, the massacre in fallujah and the slaughter in the mosques, and corrupt elections, the enslavement and humuliation of Muslims, the prevention and sabotage against people who seek to understand Islam, the sabotage of the unity of Muslims and their attempts to erect real Islamic leadership?

If you don't like Islam and we all want peace, then at least don't harrass the Muslims in the lands where they are a majority and allow those who's way of life you can't agree with to migrate in peace and allow the Muslims to financially assist those who find it difficult to migrate, and if the kuffar choose to, let the kuffar live in confused decadence until they realise that peace and dignity come from submission to Allah.

The people of France and it's president had no valid reason to destabilise syria thousands of kilometers away, to prevent Muslims from living according to the law of Allah, to arrest people who were trying to migrate to the lands of Islam, or to start bombing the Syrian people last september.
They need to repent and beg Allah's forgiveness because the law of equal qisas is for humans, however, if Allah has to intervene it's a different story.

One thing that people do need to bear in mind however is that they have no right to kill more kuffar in France than number of Muslims the French kuffar have unjustly killed, but if they repent, establish regular prayer, and give regular zakah you must forgive them and let Allah reward you for your hurt and loss of loved ones.
So let me get this striaght -Do you believe the organisation (Isis) that enslaves and rapes Yazidi women to be on the path of God?

Do you believe the death of Alan Henning (a man that was helping the syrian refugees) to be a moral act?

Do you believe that Muslims who want to kill citizens of a certain country by leaving it and planning attacks against it to be just? Should other countries with majority Muslim populations allow there own citizens to do the same thing?

Why do you love the al qeada Imam Anwar al waki so much? and no other person on the planet.

Do you believe suicide attacks in Lebanon, Yemen and most of the Muslim world are justified?
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Pygoscelis
11-16-2015, 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
One thing that people do need to bear in mind however is that they have no right to kill more kuffar in France than number of Muslims the French kuffar have unjustly killed, but if they repent, establish regular prayer, and give regular zakah you must forgive them and let Allah reward you for your hurt and loss of loved ones.
You really do live in a tribal world don't you? You speak in the language of tribal blood feud. Kill this many of them because they killed this many of us. It doesn't matter who in particular you kill, or if they have absolutely anything whatsoever to do with the killing of our people, so long as they are born into that other tribe. This is how you sound. I'm not sure if you understand how democracy works either. You can vote against, protest against, and do everything you can against a regime, and still see that regime get voted in and do things you don't like or support. It would be one thing to hold people like Bush and Blair accountable for war crimes, etc. It is quite another to point out random civilians and say they should die because of where they were born. That is sheer sociopathic lunacy.

That you approve of and endorse the killing of innocent civilians because they are French doesn't surprise me, given your posting history, including that infamous post wherein you called for the hunting down and killing of homosexuals. But really, I had hoped you'd made some progress towards common empathy.
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Physicist
11-16-2015, 10:31 AM
I wish ISIS to be "bombed" by the posts from this forum...

Real anti-ISIS coalition would better drop brochures with the quotes from Quran instead of bombs.
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BlueOwl358
11-16-2015, 10:42 AM
Anonymous declares war on Islamic State...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...-state-6839030

The powerful hacker group takes on the middle eastern militant force, as we see a cyber battle between the unknown masked men and the people who want for everyone to see them. It is black and white versus black and white. Find out the results, this Monday night!
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Abz2000
11-16-2015, 11:12 AM
Originally Posted by syed_z
I see that you are quite frustrated as the killing of innocent civilians has no basis in Islam whatsoever, unless God Himself has designated this task to people like ISIS, which obviously is impossible. I know that Allah (swt) will not ask me why President of France did so and so, but I tell you that ISIS minded individuals will have to do a lot of answering before Allah (swt) for what they're doing....

May Allah (Swt) guide you as your understanding of Islam is incorrect. Sadly :( for you killing any civilian is Qisas!

There is a huge difference between an innocent civilian and an admitted and participating shareholder with a stake in injustice in a mercenary and unjust nation.
If you claim to be a participant in a democracy, you are the boss of your leader and his actions are taken with your blessing and under your control, you will have to bear the burden and consequence of your leaders acts in such case.
I notice that that you have refused to resort to the Allah's laws and will in your constant bickering and prodding and are resorting to arrogantly speaking nonsense light an ignorant monkey taunting a lion, peace be to those who follow the guidance, i shall resort to the book of Allah and His guidance instead of wasting my time bickering with fools.


Originally Posted by Zafran
So let me get this striaght -Do you believe the organisation (Isis) that enslaves and rapes Yazidi women to be on the path of God?
I believe that the u.s government brutalized the people of Iraq and caused many of them to think diifferently from the way you think, the stories of the iraqi Muslim sisters would make any sincere Muslim want to obtain retribution from the kuffar invaders.
yazidis were given a clear and unambiguous call to repent to Allah and accept the law of God or leave, their safe and secure migration would have been facilitated had they taken the lower option of being content with kufr of God and not fearing standing before Him, it was the U.S and french governments who were guilty of keeping them on site with false stage managed acts until there was a scene from which they derived propaganda, why did they not pick them up peacefully and take them as pets before the siege?

These details have been looked at further in the relvant thread.

Originally Posted by Zafran
Do you believe the death of Alan Henning (a man that was helping the syrian refugees) to be a moral act?
If i knew exactly what Alan hemming was eally doing in the region i would be in more of a position to answer the question, there are many western mainstream media reports of some of the pasts of those claiming to be peaceful aid workers as being from zionist backgrounds which they actively sought to erase from the web after their capture, many mercenaries also use the disguise of aid workers and missionaries.
I believe it would be unjust to kill Alan hemming if was genuinely seeking to distribute food or lawful medical supplies to the people of Syria without any intended malice.
if he was a mercenary, unlawfully invading soldier or "civilian contractor" working for a mercenary firm or country that was commiting injustice and aiming to oppose Allah and his messengers and the law and will of Allah, in order to foolishly attempt to make the kufr of Allah above belief in and submission to Allah, then his crime is a capital offence.

Do you believe the killing of around a million Muslim men, women and children over the past ten years were moral acts?
Do you believe the people of Iraq should have been killed under the guise of removing Saddam Hussain for crimes he had committed as a friend, ally and active agent of the U.S government, or that those who invented and used the fabricated weapons of mass destruction lie as an excuse to kill people in iraq and used the staged false flag events of september 11 2001 to stage a totally false "war on terror" are not punishable in absence of sincere repentance?
And do you believe the murder of the 16 year old abdur Rahman al awlaki, and subsequent vover up and mass media lie that he was a 21 year old planning unlawful acts - was a moral act?

Originally Posted by Zafran
Do you believe that Muslims who want to kill citizens of a certain country by leaving it and planning attacks against it to be just? Should other countries with majority Muslim populations allow there own citizens to do the same thing?
My beliefs should be measured under the high plumbline of what is right in Allah's sight, therefore the question would go back to probe your thinking as to whether your thinking falls in line with the law and will of Allah.
Do you believe the Prophet pbuh was right to leave Mecca after suffering injustice and persecution, and do you believe that he had a right to attack the Quraish from medina,
Do you believe he (pbuh) would have attacked them while under a peace treaty and did he attack them when the truce of Hudaybiyyah was made? And what was his (pbuh) response when the kuffar of Quraish themselves broke the truce?
[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Zafran
Why do you love the al qeada Imam Anwar al waki so much? and no other person on the planet.
A childish and totally stupid question by an adult and lacking any positive substance, sincerity or truth requires no homour or response.
One would maybe understand the folly and coloring of the question if i responded with something like: why do you love the radical malcolm x and no other person on the planet?

Originally Posted by Zafran
Do you believe suicide attacks in Lebanon, Yemen and most of the Muslim world are justified?
Again, what i believe and what you believe must come under the tall plumbline of Allah in order to be correct and accurate, it is not a matter of hawa and media heart-string pulling manipulation.
There is a huge difference between suicide and martyrdom, there are times when a person needs to avoid being tortured or having details of his/her group being extracted in an unlawful manner,
You would need to look at the treatises of qaradawi and ibn taymiyyah and also reflect upon the story of the boy and the king, it would be more beneficial than baiting people and causing fitnah.

It is not for a Muslim to believe in suicide or atonemenent for the sins of others by death.
Each individual is in pledge for his/her deeds and it is best therefore to Repent.

I believe both martin luther and malcolm x had some valid viewpoints in the debate below, however, none of them appeared to be the type that enjoys or condones being oppressed, I don't subscribe to racism and i applaud brother Malcolm for having corrected his stance after pilgrimage despite the amount of opposition and pushing into false paradigms that was shrewdly being practised.

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Physicist
11-16-2015, 11:57 AM
Even if one believe, that all victims were deserving death, still, whoever was planning these actions and proudly broadcasting, should knew the consequences it will create, turn world against Islam, which is totally against Jihad in the meaning of conquering the hearts.

If crime was committed, search among those, who is benefitting by this crime.
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Abz2000
11-16-2015, 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by Physicist
Even if one believe, that all victims were deserving death, still, whoever was planning these actions and proudly broadcasting, should knew the consequences it will create, turn world against Islam, which is totally against Jihad in the meaning of conquering the hearts.

If crime was committed, search among those, who is benefitting by this crime.
The complicated nature of life on earth makes the solid fact that The Creator of the heavens and the earth is free from imperfection and is all knowing and wise whereas man is always limited in his ability to comprehend every single intricate detail - totally evident.
Sometimes motive is a strong clue, but not necessarily a determining factor, since it has unjustly happened many times that one ensares another by secretly commiting an act that will shift suspicion on the one with a strong and undeniable motive, Allah will surely requite each person according to circumstance, act and intention.

Sometimes we'll find layers upon layers of conspiracy and will inevitably get billowed like waves and stormy winds, but the on who uses their faculties to judge by what Allah has revealed will usually be able to stand firmly upon solid ground.

I recall a builder once putting up the wall a little tilted, and he had ignored my advice to him to use the plumbline on every line of bricks and to strerach a thread from end to end, (he apparently didn't undeestand the fact that the higher the plumbline, the less possibility of going bent), when i told him it was bent he told me it wasn't, so i told him to show me the plumbline from the top.
He chose a slightly inward brick and also stuck his thumb out underneath the stick to push the thread forward, then apologised when i told him to move his thumb. He left when he noticed my lack of friendliness after that.
That's the situatuon of all the political systems which foolishly and arrogantly refuse to judge by the will of their Creator.
They make a stupid rule, then make another stupid rule, then they separately compartmentalize both stupid rules in order to make them appear less stupid.
Then they'll take a correct law, use it out of correct context like chalk and cheese, then pretend they're emulating the correct rule.

Sometimes an action is a crime by one person and a virtue by another.
One has to be sincere to Allah if they want to get a correct measurement.
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Mr.President
11-16-2015, 01:51 PM
I really do not understand this guy i mean in most of his posts he addresses us like we have commited a crime or something

Abz do u consider us muslims ? Or have we become "murtadeen" ?
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Abz2000
11-16-2015, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by Mr.President
I really do not understand this guy i mean in most of his posts he addresses us like we have commited a crime or something
Hopefully you'll take it upon yourself to understand what Allah who is my Master and your Master says, He is not limited by my ineloquence.


84.*To the Madyan People (We sent) Shu'aib, one of their own brethren:
he said: "O my people! worship Allah. Ye have no other god but Him. And give not short measure or weight: I see you in prosperity, but I fear for you the penalty of a day that will compass (you) all round.
85.*"And O my people! give just measure and weight, nor withhold from the people the things that are their due: commit not evil in the land with intent to do mischief.
86.*"That which is left you by Allah is best for you, if ye (but) believed! but I am not set over you to keep watch!"
87.*They said: "O Shu'aib! Does thy (religion of) prayer command thee that we leave off the worship which our fathers practised, or that we leave off doing what we like with our property? truly, thou art the one that forbeareth with faults and is right- minded!"
88.*He said: "O my people! see ye whether I have a Clear (Sign) from my Lord, and He hath given me sustenance (pure and) good as from Himself? I wish not, in opposition to you, to do that which I forbid you to do. I only desire (your) betterment to the best of my power; and my success (in my task) can only come from Allah. In Him I trust, and unto Him I look.
89.*"And O my people! let not my dissent (from you) cause you to sin, lest ye suffer a fate similar to that of the people of Noah or of Hud or of Salih, nor are the people of Lut far off from you!
90.*"But ask forgiveness of your Lord, and turn unto Him (in repentance): For my Lord is indeed full of mercy and loving-kindness."

91.*They said: "O Shu'aib! much of what thou sayest we do not understand!

In fact among us we see that thou hast no strength!

Were it not for thy family, we should certainly have stoned thee! for thou hast among us no great position!"
92.*He said: "O my people! is then my family of more consideration with you than Allah. For ye cast Him away behind your backs (with contempt). But verily my Lord encompasseth on all sides all that ye do!
93.*"And O my people! Do whatever ye can: I will do (my part): Soon will ye know who it is on whom descends the penalty of ignominy; and who is a liar! and watch ye! for I too am watching with you!"
94.*When Our decree issued, We saved Shu'aib and those who believed with him, by (special) mercy from Ourselves: But the (mighty) blast did seize the wrong- doers, and they lay prostrate in their homes by the morning,-
95.*As if they had never dwelt and flourished there! Ah! Behold! How the Madyan were removed (from sight) as were removed the Thamud!


So a pondering person notes that it is an ancient tradition of those who deny truth to resort to casting ambiguous and illusory arguments, then pretending to not understand what is clear and making irrational threats after they have no valid arguments against what is complete and clear - And Allah sees all that we do. ("we" as in everyone in the universe).

Originally Posted by Mr.President
Abz do u consider us muslims ? Or have we become "murtadeen" ?

What and/or who do you mean by "we"? Please give clear and wholesome descriptions.
Reply

Physicist
11-16-2015, 02:47 PM
Abz,
Like one can be dragging away by jinns, has to be stick to his own destiny.
Reply

Mr.President
11-16-2015, 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
Hopefully you'll take it upon yourself to understand what Allah who is my Master and your Master says, He is not limited by my ineloquence.


84.*To the Madyan People (We sent) Shu'aib, one of their own brethren:
he said: "O my people! worship Allah. Ye have no other god but Him. And give not short measure or weight: I see you in prosperity, but I fear for you the penalty of a day that will compass (you) all round.
85.*"And O my people! give just measure and weight, nor withhold from the people the things that are their due: commit not evil in the land with intent to do mischief.
86.*"That which is left you by Allah is best for you, if ye (but) believed! but I am not set over you to keep watch!"
87.*They said: "O Shu'aib! Does thy (religion of) prayer command thee that we leave off the worship which our fathers practised, or that we leave off doing what we like with our property? truly, thou art the one that forbeareth with faults and is right- minded!"
88.*He said: "O my people! see ye whether I have a Clear (Sign) from my Lord, and He hath given me sustenance (pure and) good as from Himself? I wish not, in opposition to you, to do that which I forbid you to do. I only desire (your) betterment to the best of my power; and my success (in my task) can only come from Allah. In Him I trust, and unto Him I look.
89.*"And O my people! let not my dissent (from you) cause you to sin, lest ye suffer a fate similar to that of the people of Noah or of Hud or of Salih, nor are the people of Lut far off from you!
90.*"But ask forgiveness of your Lord, and turn unto Him (in repentance): For my Lord is indeed full of mercy and loving-kindness."

91.*They said: "O Shu'aib! much of what thou sayest we do not understand!

In fact among us we see that thou hast no strength!

Were it not for thy family, we should certainly have stoned thee! for thou hast among us no great position!"
92.*He said: "O my people! is then my family of more consideration with you than Allah. For ye cast Him away behind your backs (with contempt). But verily my Lord encompasseth on all sides all that ye do!
93.*"And O my people! Do whatever ye can: I will do (my part): Soon will ye know who it is on whom descends the penalty of ignominy; and who is a liar! and watch ye! for I too am watching with you!"
94.*When Our decree issued, We saved Shu'aib and those who believed with him, by (special) mercy from Ourselves: But the (mighty) blast did seize the wrong- doers, and they lay prostrate in their homes by the morning,-
95.*As if they had never dwelt and flourished there! Ah! Behold! How the Madyan were removed (from sight) as were removed the Thamud!


So a pondering person notes that it is an ancient tradition of those who deny truth to resort to casting ambiguous and illusory arguments, then pretending to not understand what is clear and making irrational threats after they have no valid arguments against what is complete and clear - And Allah sees all that we do. ("we" as in everyone in the universe).




What and/or who do you mean by "we"? Please give clear and wholesome descriptions.
Ppl who oppose bag daddys caliphate (not the true islamic caliphate)
Reply

Abz2000
11-16-2015, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by Physicist
Abz,
Like one can be dragging away by jinns, has to be stick to his own destiny.
Lol with human devils of the type that exist, who needs even iblees as a jinn?

I just uploaded a grainy video from a movie demonstrating how low people can go and how hopelessly lost they can become when they fail to judge by what Allah has revealed and have fools ruling over them.
The daughter pulls a short measuring line, the mother is tricked into going even shorter, then cancels it all at by validating the action and the deed of the daughter, and the family almost destroys itself.
Almost like the thought robberies in inception.

It's a bit lewd in concept:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkrloSXqdlo
Reply

Abz2000
11-16-2015, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by Mr.President
Ppl who oppose bag daddys caliphate (not the true islamic caliphate)
How does it work then Mr President sir?

Reply

Mr.President
11-16-2015, 03:26 PM
How what work ?
Reply

Abz2000
11-16-2015, 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by Mr.President
How what work ?
You keep telling us what people shouldn't do, and how they're so wrong, however, since you are capable of ample criticism you would do better to tell us how you believe we will all live peacefully and prosperously and manage to make it into paradise at the end, so that we may consider and have the opportunity to walk aright and achieve success.
Reply

IslamicRevival
11-16-2015, 04:48 PM
Anyone who supports the so called 'ISIS Caliphate' is severely misguided and clearly doesn't know the basic principles of Islam. Our beloved Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him is our leader, our guide, our role model and nowhere in the history of Islam is this kind of barbarity and indiscriminate killing of innocent human beings condoned or practiced.

There are 1.6 billion + Muslims from all corners of the globe and if such terror ISIS practices were a part of Islam we would all be wiped out. Think rationally, think and reach out to your inner common sense before you sympathise and defend the indefensible. Peace out.
Reply

Abz2000
11-16-2015, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by Vision
Anyone who supports the so called 'ISIS Caliphate' is severely misguided and clearly doesn't know the basic principles of Islam. Our beloved Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him is our leader, our guide, our role model and nowhere in the history of Islam is this kind of barbarity and indiscriminate killing of innocent human beings condoned or practiced. There are 1.6 billion + Muslims from all corners of the globe and if such terror ISIS practices were a part of Islam we would all be wiped out. Think rationally, think and reach out to your inner common sense before you sympathise and defend the indefensible. Peace out.
Omg this is like an ali g moment.
Wot? Is ISIS your new boogemman when it come to explaining the universe?Is it coz they is only three years old when you is over twenty?Is all the answers in you's heart?Question is, which you is you that i can follow it, or is i to follow mine? Anarchy no doubt.




Anyone who's read 1984 should understand the mechanism which is called "two minutes hate":

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate
Reply

farhan
11-16-2015, 07:04 PM
15 masjids have been attacked in Paris in the last 48 hours.

And also a sister in Leyton was pushed into the middle of the road today during busy traffic but luckily was uninjured Alhumdulillah

May Allah protect the Muslims. Ameen!
Reply

Physicist
11-16-2015, 07:15 PM
Good speach by Australia's TV:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...d=107787018440
Reply

Pygoscelis
11-16-2015, 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by فرحان
15 masjids have been attacked in Paris in the last 48 hours.

And also a sister in Leyton was pushed into the middle of the road today during busy traffic but luckily was uninjured Alhumdulillah

May Allah protect the Muslims. Ameen!
Indeed. It comes from both "sides"... this attitude that everybody belongs on a "side" and we must be eternally against each other, leading to some senseless acts of violence. That said, I see a lot of decent upstanding Muslims in this thread and that is encouraging. It really does mean a lot. I would far rather hold your hand in unity than engage you in combat. The west, including France, has indeed done some horrific tings, and continues to do some horrific things. The way to stop that is not to egg it on by "justifying" it with events like what happened in Paris or endorse that or justify it after the fact (as unfortunately we also see in this thread). The way forward is to show common empathy and humanity. Only then can the doves overpower the hawks in a democracy.
Reply

Pygoscelis
11-16-2015, 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by Physicist
You make a good point. I don't know if what happened in France was ISIS led or directed. But I agree that this feeds directly into their hands, and I knew they would claim it the moment I heard it happened. Other radical groups will also claim is, though we may not hear about it as loudly. Owning what happened makes them look bigger and scarier, which is what they want.
Reply

czgibson
11-16-2015, 10:28 PM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
That said, I see a lot of decent upstanding Muslims in this thread and that is encouraging. It really does mean a lot. I would far rather hold your hand in unity than engage you in combat.
This is a good point, and it seems that this point is finally getting through to the wider world. I think it's becoming clearer to society at large that orthodox Islam does not permit actions like those committed by ISIS. The large number of condemnations by Muslim organisations, the hashtags like #TerrorismHasNoReligion and other social media campaigns are really helping non-Muslims to see that Islam has been hijacked by terrorist groups, and that the vast majority of Muslims revile their actions.

Yes, there has been an increase in Islamophobic violent attacks since the events in Paris, as often happens after incidents like this, but for the first time I am cautiously optimistic that a significant change in European public opinion may be occurring.

Peace
Reply

Abz2000
11-16-2015, 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Indeed. It comes from both "sides"... this attitude that everybody belongs on a "side" and we must be eternally against each other, leading to some senseless acts of violence. That said, I see a lot of decent upstanding Muslims in this thread and that is encouraging. It really does mean a lot. I would far rather hold your hand in unity than engage you in combat. The west, including France, has indeed done some horrific tings, and continues to do some horrific things. The way to stop that is not to egg it on by "justifying" it with events like what happened in Paris or endorse that or justify it after the fact (as unfortunately we also see in this thread). The way forward is to show common empathy and humanity. Only then can the doves overpower the hawks in a democracy.
What was your reaction and how much ink (electronic or physical) did you spend discussing it?
And what have you done to prevent the unlawful actions of the French government during the instigations in Libya and Syria and before September and after the bombing of Syrian Muslims since Sebtember.

Be sure that it is perfectly lawful to retaliate up to the extent of the injustice done by an aggressor and unless the people of France , U.S. U.K and their other criminal allies are retaliated against according to the number of Muslims they have murdered in the past 10 years and 10 months, or they sincerely repent, establish regular prayer, give regular zakah and rule by the laws of God as enshrined in the Quran and Sunnah, there is no way for the Muslims to condemn those who rectify the tally, one other possibility may be a truce whereby we go our separate ways and allow the people who will live according to the rule of God to come out of their lives as servitude as despised minorities and move to the majority Muslim lands, and for the kuffar who pretend that there is no God or assume that Muhammad pbuh was a liar to leave the countries in which they are a minority, and move to the lands of gog and magog where they can live their debauched lifestyles and let God be the judge between all of us with no hostilities on the part of any side - however, that would be a compromise and matter of council.
There is no "pyar kiya to ni bhana" in such an abusive relationship.
There can only be peace if there's "na mein tumhe satao, na tu mujhe satae".





55.*Those who reject Faith will not cease to be in doubt concerning (Revelation) until the Hour (of Judgment) comes suddenly upon them, or there comes to them the Penalty of a Day of Disaster.
56.*On that Day of Dominion will be that of Allah. He will judge between them: so those who believe and work righteous deeds will be in Gardens of Delight.
57.*And for those who reject Faith and deny our Signs, there will be a humiliating Punishment.
58.*Those who leave their homes in the cause of Allah, and are then slain or die,- On them will Allah bestow verily a goodly Provision: Truly Allah is He Who bestows the best provision.
59.*Verily He will admit them to a place with which they shall be well pleased: for Allah is All-Knowing, Most Forbearing.

60.*That (is so). And if one has retaliated to no greater extent than the injury he received, and is again set upon inordinately, Allah will help him: for Allah is One that blots out (sins) and forgives (again and again).

61.*That is because Allah merges night into day, and He merges day into night, and verily it is Allah Who hears and sees (all things).
62.*That is because Allah - He is the Reality; and those besides Him whom they invoke,- they are but vain Falsehood: verily Allah is He, Most High, Most Great.
63.*Seest thou not that Allah sends down rain from the sky, and forthwith the earth becomes clothed with green? for Allah is He Who understands the finest mysteries, and is well-acquainted (with them).
64.*To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: for verily Allah,- He is free of all wants, Worthy of all Praise.
65.*Seest thou not that Allah has made subject to you (men) all that is on the earth, and the ships that sail through the sea by His Command? He withholds the sky (rain) from failing on the earth except by His leave: for Allah is Most Kind and Most Merciful to man.
66.*It is He Who gave you life, will cause you to die, and will again give you life: Truly man is a most ungrateful creature!


Reply

Pygoscelis
11-16-2015, 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
What was your reaction and how much ink (electronic or physical) did you spend discussing it?
And what have you done to prevent the unlawful actions of the French government during the instigations in Libya and Syria and before September and after the bombing of Syrian Muslims since Sebtember.
I am not French. I have no control over what France does. I can tell you that I voted in the recent Canadian election that ousted Stephen Harper, who was a hawk and who pushed for Canadian troops in Syria. The new Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau had vowed to remove and keep Canada out of these international conflicts. I am proud to have helped him into power. That said, I do not know what he will do now that the Paris attack happened. He may now see the need to get involved. I also took part in the protests against Bush's wars, and helped push Canada of that conflict , though Canada was engaged in Kandahar.

Of course none of that matters to you does it? Because I am Canadian you hold me responsible for everything the Canadian government has ever done and will ever do, just as responsible as those making the decisions or voting in the hawks. You work on a group tribal level, yes? If I were French and did everything I could to stop French involvement in Syria, you'd cheer for my death... simply because I was French, yes? That is as irrational as it is barbaric.

I do not scorn you because you are Muslim. I do not judge you based on that and that alone. If you are supporting Isis and wish to harm me however, then for that reason and that alone I would fight you. Other Muslims in this thread I would side with against you, and against any of my fellow Canadians who would think along the same lines as you and seek to harm them. That is what rational people with a sense of empathy and morality do.

or they sincerely repent, establish regular prayer, give regular zakah and rule by the laws of God as enshrined in the Quran and Sunnah, there is no way for the Muslims to condemn those who rectify the tally
This is doubly irrational. Do you realize that not only are not all French people supportive of the actions of the French government that you scorn, but many French people ARE Muslim, do regular prayer, etc? Do they also deserve to be killed because of where they live? In your warped number system, where you demand equal numbers to die on both "sides"... how do you count these French Muslims? Do you count them in the "us" column or the "them" column?

one other possibility may be a truce whereby we go our separate ways and allow the people who will live according to the rule of God to come out of their lives as servitude as despised minorities and move to the majority Muslim lands, and for the kuffar who pretend that there is no God or assume that Muhammad pbuh was a liar to leave the countries in which they are a minority, and move to the lands of gog and magog where they can live their debauched lifestyles and let God be the judge between all of us with no hostilities on the part of any side - however, that would be a compromise and matter of council.
The last I checked, non-muslims were not moving in droves to muslim majority lands. From what I have seen it tends to be the other way around. Are you proposing to stop such Muslims, such as the Syrian refugees, from leaving Muslim lands? Do you propose to build a giant wall to keep them in? I think you could get a lot of western people to support you in your mission to keep Muslims out of the west, especially after attacks like the one in Paris. Do you see the western islamophobes as natural allies?

Finally, why do you post a video of Malcolm X? Wasn't he American? Doesn't that mean you would like to see him dead? Your position seems to contradict itself in many ways.
Reply

sfontel
11-16-2015, 11:48 PM
I want to ask a question regarding the Sura 5:32 quote at the begining of the post....My question is the meaning of the word "corruption"...Does it means that killing is ok when "corruption" is found in the "land"? Becouse if thats that case, then, to what standart "corruption" judge upon? The Koran? The Hadith? If thats that case.....all non-Muslams should die rigth....they are all corrupted in the light of the Hadith and the Koran? Can some one adress my question please? Thank you! Shalon!
Reply

Search
11-17-2015, 12:38 AM
:bism::sl: at Bro Abz, various posts:

I hope you realize that the seerah (biography) is meant to be taken as a complete comprehensive guide of Prophet Muhammad's sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) life. Whereas you have given isolated incidents as example in your various posts without context to justify your position, Islamic scholars (ulema), people who have dedicated their life to studying Islam academically, have unequivocally come to the conclusion that you and others who have taken your position are completely mistaken. Islamic scholars, again I repeat, by consensus have said that the modern approach to warfare that terrorists and extremists have taken is completely wrong, misguided, and not based on the principles of Islam.

Also, I hope you know that the specific incidents in the seerah to which you'd referred are not comparable to the time we're living in right now because Prophet sallalalhu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) had wahi (divine revelation) to guide him; scholars even go so far as to say that even when Prophet sallalalhu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him) sneezed, that was part of wahi. However, today, we do not have wahi as the time of wahi finished with the death of Prophet sallalalhu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him).

Moreover, you have quoted various ayats (verses) of Quran to again justify your position without referring to exegesis of Quran, which is what scholars for centuries have done since the advent of Islam.

Also, in your various posts, you have given an erroneous interpretation of qisas; qisas is not meant to be interpreted in the way you have interpreted it.

Additionally, I hope you realize scholars have said that if any group takes minority opinions or picks self-pleasing opinions over sincere guidance over majority scholarly academic opinions or follows literally the Quran without guidance of teachers, then the result will be a twisted and perverted version of "Islam" that is no longer Islam. That is what Daesh (or insert any other terrorist group) follows; they have sacrificed following Islam for following their nafs (ego). Also, I have no doubt that Daesh and their likes will soon be annihilated because they are oppressors under the guise of fighting oppression.

Also, Daesh and people like them have forgotten the stern warning of Prophet Muhammad's sallalahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings be upon him): "Whoever exposes himself to these afflictions, will be destroyed by them. So whoever can find a place of protection or refuge from them, should take shelter in it." Scholars explain that what this means: In the days of tribulation and widespread chaos, when one is powerless against the tribulations that afflicting the world and Muslims, Muslims should avoid being a part of interfering in global politics and fighting and cut instead their anger and take to patience and breaks their egos on the stones of hardship. However, what Daesh and their likes are doing is exactly what was warned against; they believe they have to wreck vengeance on behalf of Allah SWT, which is completely antithetical to Islam.

You know, the knowledge of religion is extremely important; early Muslims used to warn people with the words to the effect, "This knowledge is a matter of deen (religion/way of life), so be careful who you take your deen (religion/way of life) from." Honestly, I find it extremely dangerous that you seem to be taking your knowledge from people who themselves have either little knowledge or too much hatred to be objective about what Islam really says.

Finally, as to the suffering of Muslims all over the world, yes, that is a fact. However, you're also forgetting that Allah SWT is allowing this to happen. Do you then also hate the Will of Allah SWT? I assume you don't.

If you believe Islam is a divine religion *and I assume you do), then you have to understand that Allah SWT will give happiness and victory to believers in the way that Allah SWT deems fit and when Allah SWT deems fit, not a moment before. If you look to ahadith, it is extremely clear believers will not have happiness and victory until the time of Mahdi alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) and return of Prophet Isa (Jesus) alayhis salaam (peace be upon him).
Reply

ardianto
11-17-2015, 12:38 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
or they sincerely repent, establish regular prayer, give regular zakah and rule by the laws of God as enshrined in the Quran and Sunnah,
Many Muslims are still do not perform regular salah, still do not fasting in Ramadan, still do not pay zakat, still live not under values of Islam. If you want to do da'wah, do your da'wah toward Muslims like this.

There's no compulsion to accept Islam. If you want to tell the messages to non-Muslims, do it in good manner. Let them decide. If they decide to accept Islam, guide them. If they decide to not accept Islam, still respect them. The only thing that make someone accept Islam is hidayah that given by Allah, not given by you.

Now is the time for us, Muslims, to introspect ourselves. What make Muslims be hated?
Reply

Abz2000
11-17-2015, 01:05 AM
I noticed the cryptos have left you to respond - makes sense since they lose all credibility in all future posts if they disagree with Islam after playing the indignant Muslim....

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I am not French. I have no control over what France does. I can tell you that I voted in the recent Canadian election that ousted Stephen Harper, who was a hawk and who pushed for Canadian troops in Syria. The new Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau had vowed to remove and keep Canada out of these international conflicts. I am proud to have helped him into power. That said, I do not know what he will do now that the Paris attack happened. He may now see the need to get involved. I also took part in the protests against Bush's wars, and helped push Canada of that conflict , though Canada was engaged in Kandahar.
....The Prophet pbuh - where he could- was usually lenient towards those who worked towards peace and did them good turns, even freeing them without ransom and giving them a few gifts on occaision.

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Of course none of that matters to you does it? Because I am Canadian you hold me responsible for everything the Canadian government has ever done and will ever do, just as responsible as those making the decisions or voting in the hawks. You work on a group tribal level, yes? If I were French and did everything I could to stop French involvement in Syria, you'd cheer for my death... simply because I was French, yes? That is as irrational as it is barbaric.
Please don't try and conjure a false image of what matters to me and what doesn't when my posts are more than just blunt, it's not like i'm the type of person who goes head over heels to hide his obvious feelings when i feel passionately regarding a subject, there's no need to discredit yourself by adding false images that don't fit.
If you work hate injustice and actively work towards rather than against justice, personally i'd prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt, unless i was required to prevent the injustice of the canadian government by having to repay via equal retaliation and i was unable to discriminate.
I don't see how advocating the brotherhood according to way of life can be equated with tribalism instead of nationalism / racism which fit the bill.

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I do not scorn you because you are Muslim. I do not judge you based on that and that alone. If you are supporting Isis and wish to harm me however, then for that reason and that alone I would fight you. Other Muslims in this thread I would side with against you, and against any of my fellow Canadians who would think along the same lines as you and seek to harm them. That is what rational people with a sense of empathy and morality do.
I would've thought that implying that i worship something akin to a flying spagetti monster was a little more than scornful, but hey, we all grow up and i hope you'll repent and live with justice before the wrath comes, then you'll meet your creator as a successful individual who made it in the nick of time.
I support God and anyone who submits to and supports Him, i use His plumbline to check and not the many of the lamestream media which keep blowing in the wind, so i'm unaffected when they falsely accuse people who support God with every manufactured stereotype and slander, i wonder what God says and what He thinks of me so i don't fall prey to the "oh i don't want to be associated with those daily reviled fake baddies so please like me" complex.
ISIS didn't exist when we first conversed pygo yet your governments have been committing crimes against us for decades, so please stop using new strawmen and boogeymen as a justification for crimes.

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
This is doubly irrational. Do you realize that not only are not all French people supportive of the actions of the French government that you scorn, but many French people ARE Muslim, do regular prayer, etc? Do they also deserve to be killed because of where they live? In your warped number system, where you demand equal numbers to die on both "sides"... how do you count these French Muslims? Do you count them in the "us" column or the "them" column?

As i said, i'd be lenient where i could, but when equal retaliation is required to check injustice against millions of genuine Muslims, the stuart littles in France have less priority, most people in the west have the resources to migrate so there's less excuse for them than those who suffer humiliation and war in the poorer countries and are forced to live as majorities under western kafir installed puppet despots, anyway, the responsibility of a Muslim leader extends towards Muslims of the Islamic State primarily.
For more information read up on how the Prophet pbuh responded when he was informed that a few Muslims living in the kafir land had been accidentally killed during a battle

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
The last I checked, non-muslims were not moving in droves to muslim majority lands. From what I have seen it tends to be the other way around. Are you proposing to stop such Muslims, such as the Syrian refugees, from leaving Muslim lands? Do you propose to build a giant wall to keep them in? I think you could get a lot of western people to support you in your mission to keep Muslims out of the west, especially after attacks like the one in Paris. Do you see the western islamophobes as natural allies?
I prefer that everyone on the planet repents and we all live happily ever after and then we all go to paradise with smiles,
However if that's not possible, my above post has more details.
If after that migration and separation has been peacefully achieved, those who prefer to live amongst kuffar as abused and reviled people like the man of Surah al A'raaf, that is their choice - my responsibility is to those who prefer to live under the rule of Allah despite hardships.


Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Finally, why do you post a video of Malcolm X? Wasn't he American? Doesn't that mean you would like to see him dead? Your position seems to contradict itself in many ways.
[/quote]

He was a respected Muslim brother of mine, and he worked continually to elevate the situation of the oppressed, you maybe forget that i was born and brought up in the U.K and was abused and harassed even when advocating for peace and protesting against bush and blair's unlawful murderous wars (fundamentalist was the word if i recall correctly when i was handing out "investigate 9/11" leaflets despite my calling for total non-violence and even condemning the 7/7 bombers - until enough research was made and that too was proven to be an undeniable false flag).
Thing is, those who have tried hard and yet been on the receiving end of colonialist kafir terror and have been framed, experienced blatant kangaroo trials, abusive police and have beem imprisoned a few times see a totally different world than that which those who focus on daily bread and cars and only experience the smiling policemen and co-workers see.
He was in America because his forefathers had been taken as slaves there, he had every reason to fight there.
My father moved to the uk from bangladesh and worked as a factory labourer at lucas, he experienced his share of racism since our house was near the football field, do some reaearch and you'll see that bengal was one of the richest places on the planet until the east india conpany moved in, since then we've never seen a break in corruption and external meddling until it was reduced to a poverty stricken discarded plaything of the british empire. I wasn't the type to rejoice in claiming benefits either despite social workers coming and telling me that my children had a right, rather i had every right to rob them blind at gunpoint like the east india had robbed my ancestors blind until they were amongst those considered lucky enough to go and work as labourers in britain.
I had the decency to move out, yet the british government didn't have the decency to stop harrassing me even after i went and demanded such at the local british embassy and it hasn't appeared to have broken it's alliance with the U.S despite the crimes the u.s government has commited against Muslims.
Allah is the best of judges, you have only yourselves to blame.
I hope you can understand how my thinking has matured over the years.
Reply

Search
11-17-2015, 01:08 AM
:bism:

Hi! Welcome. I'm new like you - hehe - so, we're in the same boat!

Hope you find your stay informative and awesome!

Thank you for your question.

I apologize. I'm not a full member and so I cannot post links, which might have been better as you'd then be able to go read the explanation yourself. So, I'll answer in the brief.

That's not what the ayat (verse) says.

Islam forbids any kind of blanket killing on any whim or self-interpretation of corruption. In Islam, capital punishment, however, exists to be exercised under leadership of an elected leader called Khalifa (equivalent of, for example, presidents or prime ministers) within a Muslim nation-state for people who might undertake actions that constitute interruption to public peace and safety (e.g. terrorists), banditry, and other types of crimes that break down the social or legal fabric of society, or constitute civil disorder.

No, Islam does not permit killing of non-Muslim as you've described because that would be injustice and oppression; and Islam forbids both.



Cheers!

Originally Posted by sfontel
I want to ask a question regarding the Sura 5:32 quote at the begining of the post....My question is the meaning of the word "corruption"...Does it means that killing is ok when "corruption" is found in the "land"? Becouse if thats that case, then, to what standart "corruption" judge upon? The Koran? The Hadith? If thats that case.....all non-Muslams should die rigth....they are all corrupted in the light of the Hadith and the Koran? Can some one adress my question please? Thank you! Shalon!
Reply

Abz2000
11-17-2015, 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Many Muslims are still do not perform regular salah, still do not fasting in Ramadan, still do not pay zakat, still live not under values of Islam. If you want to do da'wah, do your da'wah toward Muslims like this.

There's no compulsion to accept Islam. If you want to tell the messages to non-Muslims, do it in good manner. Let them decide. If they decide to accept Islam, guide them. If they decide to not accept Islam, still respect them. The only thing that make someone accept Islam is hidayah that given by Allah, not given by you.

Now is the time for us, Muslims, to introspect ourselves. What make Muslims be hated?
Talk to the hand mate, what make Muslims be hated is the lack of dignity and the eager willingness to prostrate to oppression rather than to God, the willingness to condemn Muslims for tiny acts in comparison to the magnitude of crimes committed against them on a regular basis. The willingness to roll out the tongue and pant every time the banker and weapons industry controlled lamestream media mouthpeaces threaten to call you extreme or radical.
That's what give Muslims a bad image.
Khiziun fi addunya wa khizyun fil aakhirah.

O Moses, we were harmed before you came to us and after you came to us.....
Reply

Search
11-17-2015, 01:34 AM
:bism::sl:, Abz as to post #184:

You seem to be saying that Muslims here are not responding to you because presumably in your eyes they have no leg on which to stand when it is exactly the opposite, that is, the doctrine/ideology you're espousing is antithetical to Islam and is the dodgy extremist justification that has continued to meet with scholarly opposition and global Muslim scorn to no avail. In the end, I think people simply get tired of going round in circles and circles without getting anywhere; that's where this seems to be heading.

Also, I'm not surprised that you think Muslims in the West, if they happen to die as a result of extremist actions, have no one to blame but themselves. It must be nice, you know, to be able to think in black and white. Unfortunately, for the rest of us, we live in a more gray world.

I don't think we're going to convince you; and I don't think you're going to convince us. If you're okay with supporting/espousing extremist ideology, then that's up to you. In the end, like you, I don't seek to please people but Allah SWT; and I'm content in the certainty and knowledge that Islam doesn't support extremism or terrorism.

Peace.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
I noticed the cryptos have left you to respond - makes sense since they lose all credibility in all future posts if they disagree with Islam after playing the indignant Muslim....



....The Prophet pbuh - where he could- was usually lenient towards those who worked towards peace and did them good turns, even freeing them without ransom and giving them a few gifts on occaision.



Please don't try and conjure a false image of what matters to me and what doesn't when my posts are more than just blunt, it's not like i'm the type of person who goes head over heels to hide his obvious feelings when i feel passionately regarding a subject, there's no need to discredit yourself by adding false images that don't fit.
If you work hate injustice and actively work towards rather than against justice, personally i'd prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt, unless i was required to prevent the injustice of the canadian government by having to repay via equal retaliation and i was unable to discriminate.
I don't see how advocating the brotherhood according to way of life can be equated with tribalism instead of nationalism / racism which fit the bill.



I would've thought that implying that i worship something akin to a flying spagetti monster was a little more than scornful, but hey, we all grow up and i hope you'll repent and live with justice before the wrath comes, then you'll meet your creator as a successful individual who made it in the nick of time.
I support God and anyone who submits to and supports Him, i use His plumbline to check and not the many of the lamestream media which keep blowing in the wind, so i'm unaffected when they falsely accuse people who support God with every manufactured stereotype and slander, i wonder what God says and what He thinks of me so i don't fall prey to the "oh i don't want to be associated with those daily reviled fake baddies so please like me" complex.
ISIS didn't exist when we first conversed pygo yet your governments have been committing crimes against us for decades, so please stop using new strawmen and boogeymen as a justification for crimes.




As i said, i'd be lenient where i could, but when equal retaliation is required to check injustice against millions of genuine Muslims, the stuart littles in France have less priority, most people in the west have the resources to migrate so there's less excuse for them than those who suffer humiliation and war in the poorer countries and are forced to live as majorities under western kafir installed puppet despots, anyway, the responsibility of a Muslim leader extends towards Muslims of the Islamic State primarily.
For more information read up on how the Prophet pbuh responded when he was informed that a few Muslims living in the kafir land had been accidentally killed during a battle



I prefer that everyone on the planet repents and we all live happily ever after and then we all go to paradise with smiles,
However if that's not possible, my above post has more details.
If after that migration and separation has been peacefully achieved, those who prefer to live amongst kuffar as abused and reviled people like the man of Surah al A'raaf, that is their choice - my responsibility is to those who prefer to live under the rule of Allah despite hardships.


He was a respected Muslim brother of mine, and he worked continually to elevate the situation of the oppressed, you maybe forget that i was born and brought up in the U.K and was abused and harassed even when advocating for peace and protesting against bush and blair's unlawful murderous wars (fundamentalist was the word if i recall correctly when i was handing out "investigate 9/11" leaflets despite my calling for total non-violence and even condemning the 7/7 bombers - until enough research was made and that too was proven to be an undeniable false flag).
Thing is, those who have tried hard and yet been on the receiving end of colonialist kafir terror and have been framed, experienced blatant kangaroo trials, abusive police and have beem imprisoned a few times see a totally different world than that which those who focus on daily bread and cars and only experience the smiling policemen and co-workers see.
He was in America because his forefathers had been taken as slaves there, he had every reason to fight there.
My father moved to the uk from bangladesh and worked as a factory labourer at lucas, he experienced his share of racism since our house was near the football field, do some reaearch and you'll see that bengal was one of the richest places on the planet until the east india conpany moved in, since then we've never seen a break in corruption and external meddling until it was reduced to a poverty stricken discarded plaything of the british empire. I wasn't the type to rejoice in claiming benefits either despite social workers coming and telling me that my children had a right, rather i had every right to rob them blind at gunpoint like the east india had robbed my ancestors blind until they were amongst those considered lucky enough to go and work as labourers in britain.
I had the decency to move out, yet the british government didn't have the decency to stop harrassing me even after i went and demanded such at the local british embassy and it hasn't appeared to have broken it's alliance with the U.S despite the crimes the u.s government has commited against Muslims.
Allah is the best of judges, you have only yourselves to blame.
I hope you can understand how my thinking has matured over the years.[/QUOTE]
Reply

sfontel
11-17-2015, 01:38 AM
Originally Posted by Search
:bism:

Hi! Welcome. I'm new like you - hehe - so, we're in the same boat!

Hope you find your stay informative and awesome!

Thank you for your question.

I apologize. I'm not a full member and so I cannot post links, which might have been better as you'd then be able to go read the explanation yourself. So, I'll answer in the brief.

That's not what the ayat (verse) says.

Islam forbids any kind of blanket killing on any whim or self-interpretation of corruption. In Islam, capital punishment, however, exists to be exercised under leadership of an elected leader called Khalifa (equivalent of, for example, presidents or prime ministers) within a Muslim nation-state for people who might undertake actions that constitute interruption to public peace and safety (e.g. terrorists), banditry, and other types of crimes that break down the social or legal fabric of society, or constitute civil disorder.

No, Islam does not permit killing of non-Muslim as you've described because that would be injustice and oppression; and Islam forbids both.



Cheers!
I think you adressed my question...So, in a "muslam nation", with a muslam president the interpretation could be as I stated then...It would depend on the president being extremist or not....so its not a mater of personal belief and relationship with God and His word, but istead, will always depend on the changing and unprectible human mind....Very complicade! God Bless! Thank you
Reply

Abz2000
11-17-2015, 01:41 AM
[QUOTE=Search;2861677]:bism::sl:, Abz as to post #184:

You seem to be saying that Muslims here are not responding to you because presumably in your eyes they have no leg on which to stand when it is exactly the opposite, that is, the doctrine/ideology you're espousing is antithetical to Islam and is the dodgy extremist justification that has continued to meet with scholarly opposition and global Muslim scorn to no avail. In the end, I think people simply get tired of going round in circles and circles without getting anywhere; that's where this seems to be heading.

Also, I'm not surprised that you think Muslims in the West, if they happen to die as a result of extremist actions, have no one to blame but themselves. It must be nice, you know, to be able to think in black and white. Unfortunately, for the rest of us, we live in a more gray world.

I don't think we're going to convince you; and I don't think you're going to convince us. If you're okay with supporting/espousing extremist ideology, then that's up to you. In the end, like you, I don't seek to please people but Allah SWT; and I'm content in the certainty and knowledge that Islam doesn't support extremism or terrorism.

Peace.

That's the thing, you think it"s gray, but it's very gay and pleasing to you.

Act as you will and let Allah be your judge, my own affair i commit to Allah, and Allah is ever seeing of His slaves.
Reply

Search
11-17-2015, 01:45 AM
Okkkkkay. No. That's not what I said, and I sincerely hope you're not a troll. Sorry, please reread.

Originally Posted by sfontel
I think you adressed my question...So, in a "muslam nation", with a muslam president the interpretation could be as I stated then...It would depend on the president being extremist or not....so its not a mater of personal belief and relationship with God and His word, but istead, will always depend on the changing and unprectible human mind....Very complicade! God Bless! Thank you
Reply

Search
11-17-2015, 01:53 AM
Also, the Quran and ahadith comprises the bulk of shariah, which is what governs. So, then, yes, there's a presumed relationship always between God and His Word. And that doesn't change.

Originally Posted by Search
Okkkkkay. No. That's not what I said, and I sincerely hope you're not a troll. Sorry, please reread.
Reply

sfontel
11-17-2015, 02:02 AM
Originally Posted by Search
Also, the Quran and ahadith comprises the bulk of shariah, which is what governs. So, then, yes, there's a presumed relationship always between God and His Word. And that doesn't change.
I am not trying to be a troll at all brother....

Everything I said, was in relation to Sura 5:32 + your answer....and more specific regarding the part where kiling is allowed when there is "curruption in the land"....

I am very thankfull for your answer and for the time you are taking in answering me...

I read the Koran in English...but none of the Hadith...

What would be "corruption in the land" according to the Hadith?

Not following Islam would be consider corruption for exemple?

Thank you and God bless!
Reply

Pygoscelis
11-17-2015, 02:11 AM
Originally Posted by sfontel
I am not trying to be a troll at all brother....
Pretty sure she meant Abz, and his sudden out of nowhere restating "gray" as "gay".... in what I can only guess is some sort of weird jab at homosexuals, none of which are in this thread as far as I know. When I first encountered Abz he was calling for the hunting down and murdering of homosexuals... so it would be in character for him. I certainly don't think anybody here has thought anything you yourself have said as being a troll. Not even me, and I'm the token non-muslim.
Reply

Zafran
11-17-2015, 02:12 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
I noticed the cryptos have left you to respond - makes sense since they lose all credibility in all future posts if they disagree with Islam after playing the indignant Muslim....
No the world does not revolve around you or this forum - I dont need you or any other humans "credibility" for future posts - Furthermore disagreeing with you does not in no way mean anybody disagrees with Islam - It only means that one disagrees with anwar al wakis philsophy and his followers, which of course you are one. Dont substitute your own subjective reading on Islam for Islam. Humility goes a long way.


Originally Posted by Abz2000
He was a respected Muslim brother of mine, and he worked continually to elevate the situation of the oppressed, you maybe forget that i was born and brought up in the U.K and was abused and harassed even when advocating for peace and protesting against bush and blair's unlawful murderous wars (fundamentalist was the word if i recall correctly when i was handing out "investigate 9/11" leaflets despite my calling for total non-violence and even condemning the 7/7 bombers - until enough research was made and that too was proven to be an undeniable false flag).
Thing is, those who have tried hard and yet been on the receiving end of colonialist kafir terror and have been framed, experienced blatant kangaroo trials, abusive police and have beem imprisoned a few times see a totally different world than that which those who focus on daily bread and cars and only experience the smiling policemen and co-workers see.
He was in America because his forefathers had been taken as slaves there, he had every reason to fight there.
My father moved to the uk from bangladesh and worked as a factory labourer at lucas, he experienced his share of racism since our house was near the football field, do some reaearch and you'll see that bengal was one of the richest places on the planet until the east india conpany moved in, since then we've never seen a break in corruption and external meddling until it was reduced to a poverty stricken discarded plaything of the british empire. I wasn't the type to rejoice in claiming benefits either despite social workers coming and telling me that my children had a right, rather i had every right to rob them blind at gunpoint like the east india had robbed my ancestors blind until they were amongst those considered lucky enough to go and work as labourers in britain.
I had the decency to move out, yet the british government didn't have the decency to stop harrassing me even after i went and demanded such at the local british embassy and it hasn't appeared to have broken it's alliance with the U.S despite the crimes the u.s government has commited against Muslims.
Allah is the best of judges, you have only yourselves to blame.
I hope you can understand how my thinking has matured over the years.
No you don't have a right to rob people at gunpoint just because your ancestors (like mine) had been through colonialism because two wrongs don't make a right. You say your from Bangladesh no that was called east Pakistan - which you conveniently miss out because it breaks your us(muslims) vs Kuffar narrative.

Its your oddball opinions like this that make feel that I'm wasting my time even talking to you.
Reply

Search
11-17-2015, 02:17 AM
Okay, then. I'll take your word for it; I apologize if I misunderstood.

Well, the Quran is understood in light of ahadith, and the ahadith would explain corruption in the way I've already explained above.

No, not following Islam would not fall under the definition of corruption.

Originally Posted by sfontel
I am not trying to be a troll at all brother....

Everything I said, was in relation to Sura 5:32 + your answer....and more specific regarding the part where kiling is allowed when there is "curruption in the land"....

I am very thankfull for your answer and for the time you are taking in answering me...

I read the Koran in English...but none of the Hadith...

What would be "corruption in the land" according to the Hadith?

Not following Islam would be consider corruption for exemple?

Thank you and God bless!
Reply

Pygoscelis
11-17-2015, 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
No the world does not revolve around you or this forum - I dont need you or any other humans "credibility" for future posts - Furthermore disagreeing with you does not in no way mean anybody disagrees with Islam - It only means that one disagrees with anwar al wakis philsophy and his followers, which ofcourse you are one. Dont substitute your own subjective reading on Islam for Islam. Humity goes a long way.
The drastic difference between Abz and the other Muslims here in what they say in this thread really underscores the recent confusion, especially amongst western non-muslims about what to think about Islam.

Abz's mentality plays directly into those who talk about "muslim extremists", as if being more muslim means being more violent and hateful. This is the drum that islamophobes beat when going off to do the very atrocities Abz complains about. You can see this on Fox News and the like.

Sister herb's, ardianto's and your mentality plays into a much more nuanced view, and one in which we non-muslims in the west can work to support and defend you and bring an end to such atrocity.

The irony is that if Abz truly cares about the many Muslims suffering around the world due to western aggression and that is his motivation, then he really does become his own worst enemy.
Reply

Zafran
11-17-2015, 02:30 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
The drastic difference between Abz and the other Muslims here in what they say in this thread really underscores the recent confusion, especially amongst western non-muslims about what to think about Islam.

Abz's mentality plays directly into those who talk about "muslim extremists", as if being more muslim means being more violent and hateful. This is the drum that islamophobes beat when going off to do the very atrocities Abz complains about. You can see this on Fox News and the like.

Sister herb's, ardianto's and your mentality plays into a much more nuanced view, and one in which we non-muslims in the west can work to support and defend you and bring an end to such atrocity.

The irony is that if Abz truly cares about the many Muslims suffering around the world due to western aggression and that is his motivation, then he really does become his own worst enemy.
Most people on the planet have nuanced views - everyone has there oddballs and people with tribal views - its only when oddballs get power when there is real danger.
Reply

sfontel
11-17-2015, 03:49 AM
Originally Posted by Search
Okay, then. I'll take your word for it; I apologize if I misunderstood.

Well, the Quran is understood in light of ahadith, and the ahadith would explain corruption in the way I've already explained above.

No, not following Islam would not fall under the definition of corruption.
Well as I said before, thank you for the time to answer me..

I believe as a very good and fruitfull discussion

I believe that in order to remove this violence stigma, Muslam will have to do a massivily public demostration of their unit against such...not just a some clerics or a few brave jordanians figthers....

We have a popular say where I come from.....if you remain silente before something ugly you become part of it....

"For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

GOD BLESS!
Reply

Physicist
11-17-2015, 05:43 AM
Abz sometime may seem like supporting extremists but his agenda is quite deeper if you'll read deeper between lines, especially about measuring tapes.

Life is very complicated, kind of giant equation, there are many evils confronting each other.
One person is simply unable to observe everything and the best can do is to do the best on his own way, instead of making the equation even more complicated. To do good deeds, to abstain doing evil deeds, to fight evil only when it's obvious, not just being inspired by some conspiracy theories.
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Mr.President
11-17-2015, 05:48 AM
My brothers and sisters

I just wanna say one thing paris attacks are a treggedy and a terrorist attacks we feel for the people who lost their lifes and their families may allah grant you peace.

Now the point is when ever you mention RIP paris or Prayforparis kind of things please include our brothers and sisters in syria, palastine ...etc

Paris terrorist attack is a tregedy theres no arguing about that

But please think about our brothers and sisters when they are attacked we dont see people making videos #notinmyname only a few of ulamas and ppl try to gather awareness

But when non muslims in paris are attacked east to west we say #prayforparis

Please dont change your profile pics to a france flag if you did what about the syrian muslims palastinian muslims ..... U might have to change it every minute france 120+ doesnt come close to what we have lost 100k+ or more [emoji25]
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farhan
11-17-2015, 12:12 PM
Amongst those who lost their lives in the Paris attacks were these Muslims:

Mohamed Amine Benmbarek
Kheireddine Sahbi
Djamila Houd Saadi
Halima Saadi
Asta Diakité

Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon.
Reply

farhan
11-17-2015, 12:15 PM
Found this interesting to share:

Stock prices of weapons manufacturers and defence firms have soared after markets re-opened on Monday following the Paris attacks on Friday.

Reply

Physicist
11-17-2015, 03:34 PM
The good article but missing some variables in equation.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=8587
Reply

Mr.President
11-17-2015, 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by Physicist
The best article i've seen for the moment (longest measuring tape)):

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=8587
Couldnt agree more and its right to the point
Reply

Physicist
11-17-2015, 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by Mr.President
Couldnt agree more and its right to the point
While thinking about, found out that it is missing Russia and Assad roles there.
Reply

Mr.President
11-17-2015, 04:32 PM
Assad was a big supporter of west and russia jumoed into a haystack trying to find a needle
Reply

Abz2000
11-17-2015, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Physicist
The good article but missing some variables in equation.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=8587
The man hilighted a few truths and will hopefully help people to think more rationally when deciding what is right and what is wrong, i'm not going to go over the whole article to dissect it as it is an opinion with truths and flaws unlike the Quran which is complete and flawless, his mentions of retaliation against Muslims would have been accurate if he had mentioned the fact that only the Muslims are now in a position to retaliate due to the fact that the tally count over just the past ten years and ten months puts determination on the side of the Muslims. But Muslim's are a resilient and disciplined people accustomed to sacrifice and charity and i believe will forgo that right as soon as all kafir crimes and interference amongst the majority Muslim majority countries stop and all Muslims who wish to migrate to Muslim majority countries are allowed to migrate. Those who willingly choose to be ruled by laws other than that of Allah are free to be the subjects of hotchpotch national and corporate jurisdiction and mediation.

Any further killing of Muslims by those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed is a capital crime and will only increase the number of kuffar that will be subject to lawful retaliation.

Still, an article with some good information physicist - why is it usually the converts who are the deepest thinkers lol?
Probably because they have a mind geared to study and acceptance of good information instead of the "born like that" types we see spewing all sorts of curiosities alien to Islam.
Reply

Zafran
11-17-2015, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by Mr.President
My brothers and sisters

I just wanna say one thing paris attacks are a treggedy and a terrorist attacks we feel for the people who lost their lifes and their families may allah grant you peace.

Now the point is when ever you mention RIP paris or Prayforparis kind of things please include our brothers and sisters in syria, palastine ...etc

Paris terrorist attack is a tregedy theres no arguing about that

But please think about our brothers and sisters when they are attacked we dont see people making videos #notinmyname only a few of ulamas and ppl try to gather awareness

But when non muslims in paris are attacked east to west we say #prayforparis

Please dont change your profile pics to a france flag if you did what about the syrian muslims palastinian muslims ..... U might have to change it every minute france 120+ doesnt come close to what we have lost 100k+ or more [emoji25]
salaam

I agree with you - school shooting in Pakistan by the Taliban, killing of black people in a church in the US, bomb blast in Beirut, Yemen and Iraq - Non of theses attacks made people change there pics - The attack on Paris is as bad as all the other acts of terror.

peace.
Reply

sfontel
11-17-2015, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
salaam

I agree with you - school shooting in Pakistan by the Taliban, killing of black people in a church in the US, bomb blast in Beirut, Yemen and Iraq - Non of theses attacks made people change there pics - The attack on Paris is as bad as all the other acts of terror.

peace.
I think the more sensitive outrage of Paris is due to the caracteristics of French society and its diversity.

A society that welcomes diferent back grounds and accept peacefull diversions in its mist but at same time does not tolerate violent extremists...

It has always been like that....for exemple the Batle of Tours.....October 10, 732..

Islamic Caliphate Ideology had always the dream of conquering Europe...more likely...Christianity and Christian values...

God bless!
Reply

Mr.President
11-17-2015, 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by sfontel
I think the more sensitive outrage of Paris is due to the caracteristics of French society and its diversity.

A society that welcomes diferent back grounds and accept peacefull diversions in its mist but at same time does not tolerate violent extremists...

It has always been like that....for exemple the Batle of Tours.....October 10, 732..

Islamic Caliphate Ideology had always the dream of conquering Europe...more likely...Christianity and Christian values...

God bless!

The issue starts with clash in cultural differences

And also I am not sure that muslim immigrate to west for freedome

Its mainly their mainland is occupied by west next reason is for wealth third reason is education

The French air strikes are in retaliation for the terror attacks, with little regard for why the terrorists attacked France in the first place. The attackers did not attack Luxembourg. As the terrorists were shooting people in Paris, they reportedly yelled that they were retaliating for French bombing in Syria. France, like the British and United States, is a former imperial power and still acts with that mentality by using force excessively abroad.
Ps- it was wrong to attack innocents isis wrong not endrosing isis
But the source of all these evils is the western government policies

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=8587
Reply

IslamicRevival
11-17-2015, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
Omg this is like an ali g moment.
Wot? Is ISIS your new boogemman when it come to explaining the universe?Is it coz they is only three years old when you is over twenty?Is all the answers in you's heart?Question is, which you is you that i can follow it, or is i to follow mine? Anarchy no doubt.




Anyone who's read 1984 should understand the mechanism which is called "two minutes hate":

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate
I see the Ali G effect has totally dimmed your senses to the level of an ignorant hostile clown. Booyakasha !
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sfontel
11-17-2015, 07:15 PM
I agree with you, the west, driven by greed, slevery and injustice did in fact try to colonize parts of Africa, India, South America....and sometimes with the flat lie of spreading Emperiologic Christianity....and logicaly fail in both ideoligies...Colonizations and fake Christianity...or simple Christianization...

As if Christ could be pushed down on people or if swords were need to atack non-Christians in order to grow it...

Every Christian that understand the bible, knows that our Kingdom are not a earthly one, our king is not only bone and flesh....for us there is no hope on that! but from haven...
No human society can offer us what Jesus promess....

There is nothing of earth that interest us, other than to preach to all people about Jesus and His coming Kingdom....


But as you point out, contries that hold Christian values, even when they tent to be secular as Frence or USA....still ahead social and economicly...becoming the home of many Muslams....

What you think would be the Ideology of the Muslams trying to take over Europe in The Bettle of Tour? Since was not to long since the death Prophet Mohamed...

God bless!
Reply

Abz2000
11-17-2015, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by sfontel
I think the more sensitive outrage of Paris is due to the caracteristics of French society and its diversity.

A society that welcomes diferent back grounds and accept peacefull diversions in its mist but at same time does not tolerate violent extremists...

It has always been like that....for exemple the Batle of Tours.....October 10, 732..

Islamic Caliphate Ideology had always the dream of conquering Europe...more likely...Christianity and Christian values...

God bless!
Do you mean diverstity such as unlawfully attempting to ban women from wearing the veil and people from praying outside when the mosques fill up, then trying to portray Muslims as weird lowest class citizens who are being somehow just about tolerated? Allah's law is not hypocritical and oppressive.
It's telling how those who advocate anything other than Islam continually resort to lies and emotional illusions in order to show superiority, but such false moral superiority can never stand against the hujjah of Allah and His Wisdom.

A person with a normally funtioning brain would have thought that practicing rejection of God and illegally invading countries based upon lies and then murdering men women and children was violent extremism, but it appears that the kufr media controlled by usurers and arms dealers causes it's viewers to lose their God given bearings. Read the book of Allah, it will help you think straight.
Reply

Futuwwa
11-17-2015, 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by sfontel
I think the more sensitive outrage of Paris is due to the caracteristics of French society and its diversity.

A society that welcomes diferent back grounds and accept peacefull diversions in its mist but at same time does not tolerate violent extremists...
France isn't tolerant of differences. France coerces conformity from its minority populations. France demands and coercively extracts respect for all things French, while scoffing at the notion of returning the favour.
Reply

Abz2000
11-17-2015, 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by Vision
I see the Ali G effect has totally dimmed your senses to the level of an ignorant hostile clown. Booyakasha !
True dat! Wicked.
True dat it is amazing how every single nay-sayer was unable to provide a valid answer and then managed to wait for a few more twisted diversions before resorting to abuse :) helps visitors see the bigger picture.
A man asks, so how do we achieve peace and success in this world and in eternity,
The "vision"ary replies: "it's all because of ISIS" - ROFL.
May Allah guide us to accepting His laws as the supreme authority and never wavering thereafter.
Reply

sfontel
11-17-2015, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
France isn't tolerant of differences. France coerces conformity from its minority populations. France demands and coercively extracts respect for all things French, while scoffing at the notion of returning the favour.
I could not leave in such opressive regimes.....it does not make sense!........unless the memory of my home land would remind me of something even worse....
Reply

Futuwwa
11-17-2015, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by sfontel
What you think would be the Ideology of the Muslams trying to take over Europe in The Bettle of Tour?
Greed, most likely. The reason they withdrew after the first day of battle, despite still being in fighting condition, was not to risk the booty they had gathered from looting castles throughout Aquitaine. If they had actually been fanatics bent on righteous conquest, the battle might well have gone differently.
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Abz2000
11-17-2015, 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
France isn't tolerant of differences. France coerces conformity from its minority populations. France demands and coercively extracts respect for all things French, while scoffing at the notion of returning the favour.
When one attempts to bundle all of the following paragraph into one sentence, one comes to realise that it is not law but vanity and oppression. It shows that such a form of governance needs to undo itself and bow before God.

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

Anatole France*
(16 April*1844*–*12 October*1924),
born*Jacques Anatole François Thibault,
French poet, journalist, and novelist.*Ironic*and*skeptical, he was considered in his day the ideal French man of letters.
Reply

Futuwwa
11-17-2015, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by sfontel
I could not leave in such opressive regimes.....it does not make sense!........unless the memory of my home land would remind me of something even worse....
There is a reason why French Muslims are joining ISIS, on a per capita basis, at a higher rate than the Muslims of almost every other country, including most Muslim-majority countries.
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sfontel
11-17-2015, 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
There is a reason why French Muslims are joining ISIS, on a per capita basis, at a higher rate than the Muslims of almost every other country, including most Muslim-majority countries.
Why not go to South Arabia or Quatar instead? Rich, developed...at list the notion we have....and Sharia law!....

Right? Why not?
Reply

IslamicRevival
11-17-2015, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
True dat! Wicked.
True dat it is amazing how every single nay-sayer was unable to provide a valid answer and then managed to wait for a few more twisted diversions before resorting to abuse :) helps visitors see the bigger picture.
A man asks, so how do we achieve peace and success in this world and in eternity,
The "vision"ary replies: "it's all because of ISIS" - ROFL.
May Allah guide us to accepting His laws as the supreme authority and never wavering thereafter.
I've not read every single post, merely skimmed though them and its enough to know the vast majority are on point, I dont need to respond to anything however if it makes you happy thinking you are correct, think that even though it's the furthest from the absolute truth.

If you have an actual point to make, start a new thread because the falsehood you preach has been extinguished fairly easily by the community.
Reply

Scimitar
11-17-2015, 08:06 PM
The Rarely Spoken Truth:



Gotta admit, this guy has told it like it is. Absolutely brilliant.

Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
11-17-2015, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by Vision
I've not read every single post, merely skimmed though them and its enough to know the vast majority are on point, I dont need to respond to anything however if it makes you happy thinking you are correct, think that even though it's the furthest from the absolute truth.

If you have an actual point to make, start a new thread because the falsehood you preach has been extinguished fairly easily by the community.

Which community is that and why are you attempting to start a b"tching contest?
The truth is clear to see, please stop trying to pretend it's all about me so you can resort to frothing at the mouth and screaming at me, it will be better if you post something worthwhile as the discussion is going forward.
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sfontel
11-17-2015, 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Greed, most likely. The reason they withdrew after the first day of battle, despite still being in fighting condition, was not to risk the booty they had gathered from looting castles throughout Aquitaine. If they had actually been fanatics bent on righteous conquest, the battle might well have gone differently.
Greed could have been the reason for the batle as you said....but they probaly withdrew becouse the death of their Commender...

I dont have numbers....but I just wonder how big was the Muslam faith back then.....and to what porcentage of the greed faithfull joint this greed campain....

God bless!
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Futuwwa
11-17-2015, 08:22 PM
Saudi and Quatar don't take in immigrants, only poorly paid and exploited guest workers.

If they could, you'd have to ask them why not. Most French Muslims are 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants. France is their home, they have never known any other. Some people do develop an attachment to their homeland, a fact that numerous ethnic conflicts around the world stand testament to. Again, you'd have to ask them, I have never been part of a marginalized minority. I've been loaded with privilege all my life.
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Futuwwa
11-17-2015, 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by sfontel
Greed could have been the reason for the batle as you said....but they probaly withdrew becouse the death of their Commender...

I dont have numbers....but I just wonder how big was the Muslam faith back then.....and to what porcentage of the greed faithfull joint this greed campain....

God bless!
This is the Early Middle Ages, an age of scant textual documentation. Medieval Islamic civilization was just beginning to develop a scholarly tradition by this time. There's simply no way to reliably even estimate the total Muslim population of the world, or of the Umayyad Caliphate, at this time. The only thing that can be discerned is that non-Arab converts had significantly outnumbered the small pre-conquest Muslim population of the Arabian Peninsula. And that's just because otherwise the Abbasid rebellion could not have happened.

The last part of your question, I have no idea what that even means.
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Abz2000
11-17-2015, 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
The Rarely Spoken Truth:



Gotta admit, this guy has told it like it is. Absolutely brilliant.

Scimi
This guy mentioned some points that i would never have expected before the 9/11, wmd and subsequent fiascos.
It appears that all the lies, manipulations and abuses, rather than make people dumbed down, have actually worked as immunizations and given rise to a sceptical, critical and thoughtful public.
I don't see how this deep inner awakening could have ever otherwise happened.
Thanks for the link scimi.
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Physicist
11-17-2015, 09:15 PM
That feeling, when the guns exploding in the hands of murderers!

It's going to be like a chain reaction, the wave of scandals, repelling responsibility...
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Pygoscelis
11-17-2015, 09:44 PM
So... soccer match in Germany... cancelled due to possible bomb threat. Will this mean even more dead innocent Muslims? Will this lead Germany to join France in attacks?
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sister herb
11-17-2015, 10:14 PM
I think this is a golden age to all lunatics, real groups or just some insane individuals to make also fake bombs and false bomb alarms. Officials have to check them all and they will get a lot of attention and publicity.

:hmm:
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Zafran
11-17-2015, 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by sfontel
I think the more sensitive outrage of Paris is due to the caracteristics of French society and its diversity.

A society that welcomes diferent back grounds and accept peacefull diversions in its mist but at same time does not tolerate violent extremists...

It has always been like that....for exemple the Batle of Tours.....October 10, 732..

Islamic Caliphate Ideology had always the dream of conquering Europe...more likely...Christianity and Christian values...

God bless!
Not really if you look at Lebanon it has Sunni, shia, christian split population, Its also taken the most Syrian refugees in the mid east. France hasn't always been an open society - that only happened after its colonialist history - that's why you find a lot of north African Muslims living there mostly. However you can see the rise of Le pan who basically want a white society only rising up - they will definitely take this incident for there political agenda.

The battle of tour has nothing to do with modern France - your missing over 1000 years of history including the 100 years war with England, the french revolution and the rise of enlightenment ideas, Napoleon and his threat to Europe, and of course colonialism. Not mention the first world war and Nazi occupation.

Modern France as much to do with christian values as Bolshevik Russia did in 1917.
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sfontel
11-18-2015, 12:10 AM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
This is the Early Middle Ages, an age of scant textual documentation. Medieval Islamic civilization was just beginning to develop a scholarly tradition by this time. There's simply no way to reliably even estimate the total Muslim population of the world, or of the Umayyad Caliphate, at this time. The only thing that can be discerned is that non-Arab converts had significantly outnumbered the small pre-conquest Muslim population of the Arabian Peninsula. And that's just because otherwise the Abbasid rebellion could not have happened.

The last part of your question, I have no idea what that even means.
The last part was not a question was actualy a comment...

But you actualy kind of said what I was thinking....

As I said I am focusing on what would have been the Muslam Ideology to invade Europe through the Batle of Tour....as you said was the ideology prabaly was "greed"...other wise they would had succeed..

But I am looking at a big picture...as the Commender was a very important figure to the caliphate and was following orders of "greed"....and logic violence....then, we can only conclude that this was probaly the Ideology of the majority of most if not all Muslams at the time....

We can draw a very clear diference between the begining of Islam and Christianity.....

Thank you! God bless!
Reply

Abz2000
11-18-2015, 12:27 AM
Originally Posted by sfontel
The last part was not a question was actualy a comment...

But you actualy kind of said what I was thinking....

As I said I am focusing on what would have been the Muslam Ideology to invade Europe through the Batle of Tour....as you said was the ideology prabaly was "greed"...other wise they would had succeed..

But I am looking at a big picture...as the Commender was a very important figure to the caliphate and was following orders of "greed"....and logic violence....then, we can only conclude that this was probaly the Ideology of the majority of most if not all Muslams at the time....

We can draw a very clear diference between the begining of Islam and Christianity.....

Thank you! God bless!
Was futuwwa right when he told you it was greed?
One proves by sincerity is one's sincerity, and one proves by trolling and baiting one's trolling and baiting mentality.
Wa maa yuduillu bihi illa al faasiqoon.
Reply

sfontel
11-18-2015, 12:34 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
Not really if you look at Lebanon it has Sunni, shia, christian split population, Its also taken the most Syrian refugees in the mid east. France hasn't always been an open society - that only happened after its colonialist history - that's why you find a lot of north African Muslims living there mostly. However you can see the rise of Le pan who basically want a white society only rising up - they will definitely take this incident for there political agenda.


I agree until here, I think Lebanon is a rare exemple in the midle east where the majorits are Mulams...We could put Turkey here too....but the past years have been very disapointing...


The battle of tour has nothing to do with modern France - your missing over 1000 years of history including the 100 years war with England, the french revolution and the rise of enlightenment ideas, Napoleon and his threat to Europe, and of course colonialism. Not mention the first world war and Nazi occupation.

Modern France as much to do with christian values as Bolshevik Russia did in 1917.
I think its impossible to say that the history of a country can not shape or influence its presente...everything has some degree of influence....good or bad....

What I am today the result of all my past days...good or bad...


I believe that from 325 to 1800 the vast majority of war related issues in europe has to do Catholicism/ Rome Imperialist vs followers at Solo Scripiture.....political control undercover by imperialist church...

It was always a political/religious strugle...

Unfurtunetly the Imperial church started to kill Christians....to the point the they defend themselfs by killing too....

Great conversation! GOD bless!
Reply

sfontel
11-18-2015, 12:44 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
Was futuwwa right when he told you it was greed?
One proves by sincerity is one's sincerity, and one proves by trolling and baiting one's trolling and baiting mentality.
Wa maa yuduillu bihi illa al faasiqoon.
I dont know what you mean....I ask a sincere question....and I believe he answer to his sincerity....

Do you see anything wrong with our dialogue?

In your opinion what was the reason/ideaology for the Commender enter the Batle of Tours in you opinion?

Thank you GOD bless!
Reply

Abz2000
11-18-2015, 01:01 AM
Originally Posted by sfontel
I dont know what you mean....I ask a sincere question....and I believe he answer to his sincerity....

Do you see anything wrong with our dialogue?
I don't believe there are children just drawn from the breast on this forum, judge a man's intelligence by the questions he asks and the interpretations he derives.

Originally Posted by sfontel
In your opinion what was the reason/ideaology for the Commender enter the Batle of Tours in you opinion?
If i knew the reason i would have told you, if i had a strong indication or many strong indications as to the possible answer, i would have given my opinion, though i do believe that the initial rightly guided Caliphs were busy making treaties and establishing the Law of God in the lands that they were given authority over with full sincwrity and seeking to the will of God and gain His pleasure and blessings.
Many weird things happened after the forst four and i cannot say the same for all of the rest, with a few exceptions such as 'umar ibn abd al 'azeez. If they did good may Allah reward them with good, if they did evil, may Allah reward them with evil, if they sincerely repented of their faults, may Allah forgive them. easy isn't it?

Originally Posted by sfontel
Thank you GOD bless!
Thank God, May God bless those who turn to Him in humility.
Reply

sfontel
11-18-2015, 01:18 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
I don't believe there are children just drawn from the breast on this forum, judge a man's intelligence by the questions he asks and the interpretations he derives.



If i knew the reason i would have told you, if i had a strong indication or many strong indications as to the possible answer, i would have given my opinion, though i do believe that the initial rightly guided Caliphs were busy making treaties and establishing the Law of God in the lands that they were given authority over with full sincwrity and seeking to the will of God and gain His pleasure and blessings.
Many weird things happened after the forst four and i cannot say the same for all of the rest, with a few exceptions such as 'umar ibn abd al 'azeez. If they did good may Allah reward them with good, if they did evil, may Allah reward them with evil, if they sincerely repented of their faults, may Allah forgive them. easy isn't it?



Thank God, May God bless those who turn to Him in humility.
I liked a lot what you said....even that you may dont have an opinion over a fact of history.....and praise the Lord in your last statement....

"The Lord will not refuse a humble and broken heart"
Reply

Abz2000
11-18-2015, 01:34 AM
Originally Posted by sfontel

"The Lord will not refuse a humble and broken heart"

109.*Nor did We send before thee (as messengers) any but men, whom we did inspire,- (men) living in human habitations.
Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those before them?
But the home of the hereafter is best, for those who do right. Will you not then understand?

110.*Until, when the messengers give up hope and (come to) think that they were treated as liars, there reaches them Our help, and those whom We will are delivered into safety.
But never will be warded off our punishment from a people who are mujrim (criminals, treacherous, sinners, rebellious towards God, polytheists, unjust, wicked).

111.*There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe.

Quran Chapter 12, Yusuf, Joseph
Reply

sfontel
11-18-2015, 03:02 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
109.*Nor did We send before thee (as messengers) any but men, whom we did inspire,- (men) living in human habitations.
Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those before them?
But the home of the hereafter is best, for those who do right. Will you not then understand?

110.*Until, when the messengers give up hope and (come to) think that they were treated as liars, there reaches them Our help, and those whom We will are delivered into safety.
But never will be warded off our punishment from a people who are mujrim (criminals, treacherous, sinners, rebellious towards God, polytheists, unjust, wicked).

111.*There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe.

Quran Chapter 12, Yusuf, Joseph
Abz I had the plesure to read the entire Koran and I have a copy my self!

Have you had the honor of reading an entire bible?

Curious enough as the bible does not prohibit one to read or reasearch the OT or any other books or people for the matter....

More interesting is how the Koran uses "We" when speaking of God Himself..

Like "Elohim"....and "We" from the bible....

In the bible....God is the one who takes care of His own Words...

35. Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. 36. Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6

God bless!
Reply

Futuwwa
11-18-2015, 07:04 AM
Originally Posted by sfontel
We can draw a very clear diference between the begining of Islam and Christianity.....
Tours is a hundred years after the death of the Prophet, it's hardly the beginning of Islam.
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Akingfisher
11-18-2015, 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by Vision
French Muslims do exist..but either way non Muslim or not it's irrelevant because harming innocent 'human beings' is prohibited, period. It's a basic principle of humanity at large and no Muslim can possibly justify these attacks.

I understand Muslims are suffering all around the world, I also understand what happened in France is a daily occurrence in Palestine, Syria, Iraq and many other countries worldwide however we shouldn't allow seperate incidents to cloud our judgment. We feel for Muslims and non Muslims alike who are oppressed all over the globe but do not be fooled by ISIS, IE Israeli Secret Intelligence Service. It's a well known fact they are a creation of the west and the leader of this movement, who's real name is Simon Elliot is a mossad agent.

I pray common sense reaches those who are clearly misguided in their understanding.
I am new to the board and was looking at this thread as the events around it are current and all over the news.

I did some research about the above claims because it seemed far fetched and found that the claims about Simon Elliot are false.

I can't post links as I am new.

What is truth?
Reply

farhan
11-18-2015, 10:49 PM
Summary of Paris Attackers by Yasir Qadhi:

Ok, so, let's review what we're learning so far about the Paris attackers:

Two of them owned a bar. One was a regular hashish user. Another never prayed in the mosque and grew up in a life of petty crimes and a series of girlfriends. None of them studied the Islamic tradition. Disenfranchised, isolated, ignorant. (And before people start saying that this is what the media says, realize that most of this information is being relayed from family and friends).

Oh, and of course: they intentionally left a fake Syrian passport at the scene of the crime so as to make it even more difficult for innocent Syrian refugees to find asylum in Europe.

And these are the people leading the 'jihad' to free Muslim lands?!?

Yup, fits the bill perfectly actually. In all cases, the stereotype of a 'radical terrorist' is exactly as above.

Why is it that only such people are recruited by the extremists? Because they have absolutely nothing to begin with. No knowledge. No intelligence. No education. No life. Because if they had *any* of these characteristics to begin with, they would know how utterly vile and counterproductive such actions are.

Already, dozens of Islamophobic attacks have been reported across the Western world. Many countries and states have announced plans to stop any more asylum seekers from entering their lands. Mosques have been burned or vandalized. More attacks against Muslim lands have already been launched, and no doubt others will continue to follow. And the mood in many circles becomes even more irrational as it spires maddeningly closer to calls for total surveillance, or curtailing of religious rights, or mass expulsion, or perhaps even genocide of all Muslims.

Truly, as our Prophet (salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam) said of such groups: their speech is beautiful, yet their actions are ugly, they quote the Quran, yet have absolutely no understanding of it, and those whom they fight in the name of Islam (ie., the majority of the Muslim world!) are closer to Islam than they are.
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najimuddin
11-18-2015, 11:40 PM
Brother Farhan's post above reminds me of an article I read by Glenn Greenwald titled:

Why Does the FBI Have to Manufacture its Own Plots if Terrorism and ISIS Are Such Grave Threats?

Originally published on 2/26/2015 @ https://theintercept.com/2015/02/26/...grave-threats/
The author's source material is underlined and in red.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
The FBI and major media outlets yesterday trumpeted the agency’s latest counterterrorism triumph: the arrest of three Brooklyn men, ages 19 to 30, on charges of conspiring to travel to Syria to fight for ISIS (photo of joint FBI/NYPD press conference, above). As my colleague Murtaza Hussain ably documents, “it appears that none of the three men was in any condition to travel or support the Islamic State, without help from the FBI informant.” One of the frightening terrorist villains told the FBI informant that, beyond having no money, he had encountered a significant problem in following through on the FBI’s plot: his mom had taken away his passport. Noting the bizarre and unhinged ranting of one of the suspects, Hussain noted on Twitter that this case “sounds like another victory for the FBI over the mentally ill.”

In this regard, this latest arrest appears to be quite similar to the overwhelming majority of terrorism arrests the FBI has proudly touted over the last decade. As my colleague Andrew Fishman and I wrote last month— after the FBI manipulated a 20-year-old loner who lived with his parents into allegedly agreeing to join an FBI-created plot to attack the Capitol — these cases follow a very clear pattern:

The known facts from this latest case seem to fit well within a now-familiar FBI pattern whereby the agency does not disrupt planned domestic terror attacks but rather creates them, then publicly praises itself for stopping its own plots.

First, they target a Muslim: not due to any evidence of intent or capability to engage in terrorism, but rather for the “radical” political views he expresses. In most cases, the Muslim targeted by the FBI is a very young (late teens, early 20s), adrift, unemployed loner who has shown no signs of mastering basic life functions, let alone carrying out a serious terror attack, and has no known involvement with actual terrorist groups.

They then find another Muslim who is highly motivated to help disrupt a “terror plot”: either because they’re being paid substantial sums of money by the FBI or because (as appears to be the case here) they are charged with some unrelated crime and are desperate to please the FBI in exchange for leniency (or both). The FBI then gives the informant a detailed attack plan, and sometimes even the money and other instruments to carry it out, and the informant then shares all of that with the target. Typically, the informant also induces, lures, cajoles, and persuades the target to agree to carry out the FBI-designed plot. In some instances where the target refuses to go along, they have their informant offer huge cash inducements to the impoverished target.

Once they finally get the target to agree, the FBI swoops in at the last minute, arrests the target, issues a press release praising themselves for disrupting a dangerous attack (which it conceived of, funded, and recruited the operatives for), and the DOJ and federal judges send their target to prison for years or even decades (where they are kept in special GITMO-like units). Subservient U.S. courts uphold the charges by applying such a broad and permissive interpretation of “entrapment” that it could almost never be successfully invoked.
Once again, we should all pause for a moment to thank the brave men and women of the FBI for saving us from their own terror plots.



One can, if one really wishes, debate whether the FBI should be engaging in such behavior. For reasons I and many others have repeatedly argued, these cases are unjust in the extreme: a form of pre-emptory prosecution where vulnerable individuals are targeted and manipulated not for any criminal acts they have committed but rather for the bad political views they have expressed. They end up sending young people to prison for decades for “crimes” which even their sentencing judges acknowledge they never would have seriously considered, let alone committed, in the absence of FBI trickery. It’s hard to imagine anyone thinking this is a justifiable tactic, but I’m certain there are people who believe that. Let’s leave that question to the side for the moment in favor of a different issue.

We’re constantly bombarded with dire warnings about the grave threat of home-grown terrorists, “lone wolf” extremists and ISIS. So intensified are these official warnings that The New York Times earlier this month cited anonymous U.S. intelligence officials to warn of the growing ISIS threat and announce “the prospect of a new global war on terror.”

But how serious of a threat can all of this be, at least domestically, if the FBI continually has to resort to manufacturing its own plots by trolling the Internet in search of young drifters and/or the mentally ill whom they target, recruit and then manipulate into joining? Does that not, by itself, demonstrate how over-hyped and insubstantial this “threat” actually is? Shouldn’t there be actual plots, ones that are created and fueled without the help of the FBI, that the agency should devote its massive resources to stopping?

This FBI tactic would be akin to having the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) constantly warn of the severe threat posed by drug addiction while it simultaneously uses pushers on its payroll to deliberately get people hooked on drugs so that they can arrest the addicts they’ve created and thus justify their own warnings and budgets (and that kind of threat-creation, just by the way, is not all that far off from what the other federal law enforcement agencies, like the FBI, are actually doing). As we noted the last time we wrote about this, the Justice Department is aggressively pressuring U.S. allies to employ these same entrapment tactics in order to create their own terrorists, who can then be paraded around as proof of the grave threat.

Threats that are real, and substantial, do not need to be manufactured and concocted. Indeed, as the blogger Digby, citing Juan Cole, recently showed, run-of-the-mill “lone wolf” gun violence is so much of a greater threat to Americans than “domestic terror” by every statistical metric that it’s almost impossible to overstate the disparity:



In that regard, it is not difficult to understand why “domestic terror” and “homegrown extremism” are things the FBI is desperately determined to create. But this FBI terror-plot concoction should, by itself, suffice to demonstrate how wildly exaggerated this threat actually is.

Photo: Mary Altaffer/AP

UPDATE: The ACLU of Massachusetts’s Kade Crockford notes this extraordinarily revealing quote from former FBI assistant director Thomas Fuentes, as he defends one of the worst FBI terror “sting” operations of all (the Cromitie prosecution we describe at length here): (another version of the video can be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX0UTB-Foyc)

If you’re submitting budget proposals for a law enforcement agency, for an intelligence agency, you’re not going to submit the proposal that “We won the war on terror and everything’s great,” cuz the first thing that’s gonna happen is your budget’s gonna be cut in half. You know, it’s my opposite of Jesse Jackson’s ‘Keep Hope Alive’—it’s ‘Keep Fear Alive.’ Keep it alive.
That is the FBI’s terrorism strategy — keep fear alive — and it drives everything they do.
Reply

sfontel
11-19-2015, 01:05 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
109.*Nor did We send before thee (as messengers) any but men, whom we did inspire,- (men) living in human habitations.
Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those before them?
But the home of the hereafter is best, for those who do right. Will you not then understand?

110.*Until, when the messengers give up hope and (come to) think that they were treated as liars, there reaches them Our help, and those whom We will are delivered into safety.
But never will be warded off our punishment from a people who are mujrim (criminals, treacherous, sinners, rebellious towards God, polytheists, unjust, wicked).

111.*There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe.

Quran Chapter 12, Yusuf, Joseph
So....you like Umar II but not Hisham.....?

With this types of conversation I think I am starting to understand a litle more of Islamic world....

Very complicated names for westerns to memorize lol......but at least I am trying...

God bless!
Reply

sfontel
11-19-2015, 01:59 AM
Originally Posted by Futuwwa
Tours is a hundred years after the death of the Prophet, it's hardly the beginning of Islam.
Hey Futuwwa....how are you?

Well I agree that is a 100 years after the death of the Prophet....and a lot of things happened as Abz point out....

As I was reading about Caliphates and its rullers...." from Islamic web sites" I learn a quite bit of things...

My comparison is simple and easy..and I did to my self....real Christianity did not comited violence until was taken by the Roman Empire represented by the "prostitute" from the book of Revelations....quote by Abz in a diferent post.... It is historicly proven! Was peacefull and matches exactly with Jesus teachings from the Gospels!

The secular history, proves that Christianity is true to 100% of the Gospel.....It reveals that God and following God is not about violence....not about territory expansion.....not about an eartly kingdown!

Its about expading into humans hearts that God is love and He care for us.....

And from the get go Islam was about estabishing an eartly Caliphate...and history proves this too! And remain with this Ideology even 100 years after Prophet Mohamed death!

Two complete diferent revelations proven by acts of History!

Thats why I said was clear for me...the diferences....

Do you see bias in my conclusion?

Now, 2000 years have past....What is the Ideology of Islam today? I believe its a very very minority that suports IS today.....

And I am not concern with IS brutal samples of Faith.....

I am concern if the Ideology of a Caliphate even if is trough acts of peace(possible?) still exist in the majorit of Muslams minds!!!!



God bless!
Reply

Abz2000
11-19-2015, 02:44 AM
There have always been different methods in the service of God, and it was ok as long as it was in submission and obedience to God, do not forget some of the blood-curling and hair raising events of the OT, the violent table turning against the usurers, and the command to the disciples to sell their cloaks and buy swords in the gospels, the fact that simon peter was a faithful jihadi, and that judas iscariot appears to have been a provocateur extremist sicarii.
The kingdom of God requires faith with action.

Your Lord knows that you stand forth (to prayer) near two-thirds of the night, or half the night, or a third of the night, and so does a party of those with you.
But Allah appoints night and day in due measure He knows that you are unable to keep count thereof. So He has turned to you (in mercy): read, therefore, of the Qur'an as much as may be easy for you.
He knows that there may be (some) among you in ill-health;
others travelling through the land, seeking of Allah's bounty;
yet others fighting in Allah's Cause,
read, therefore, as much of the Qur'an as may be easy (for you);
and establish regular Prayer
and give regular Charity;
and loan to Allah a Beautiful Loan.
And whatever good ye send forth for your souls ye shall find it in Allah's Presence,- better and greater in Reward
and seek the Grace of Allah. for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Al Muzzammil, Quran chapter 73: verse 20


Smile, it's sunnah :)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/16tsos5kkx...59_59.mp4?dl=0


P.S i'm going to sleep now, it's 8:59am
Reply

sfontel
11-19-2015, 05:23 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
There have always been different methods in the service of God, and it was ok as long as it was in submission and obedience to God, do not forget some of the blood-curling and hair raising events of the OT, the violent table turning against the usurers, and the command to the disciples to sell their cloaks and buy swords in the gospels, the fact that simon peter was a faithful jihadi, and that judas iscariot appears to have been a provocateur extremist sicarii.
The kingdom of God requires faith with action.

Your Lord knows that you stand forth (to prayer) near two-thirds of the night, or half the night, or a third of the night, and so does a party of those with you.
But Allah appoints night and day in due measure He knows that you are unable to keep count thereof. So He has turned to you (in mercy): read, therefore, of the Qur'an as much as may be easy for you.
He knows that there may be (some) among you in ill-health;
others travelling through the land, seeking of Allah's bounty;
yet others fighting in Allah's Cause,
read, therefore, as much of the Qur'an as may be easy (for you);
and establish regular Prayer
and give regular Charity;
and loan to Allah a Beautiful Loan.
And whatever good ye send forth for your souls ye shall find it in Allah's Presence,- better and greater in Reward
and seek the Grace of Allah. for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Al Muzzammil, Quran chapter 73: verse 20


Smile, it's sunnah

P.S i'm going to sleep now, it's 8:59am
Some things you said I agree....in the OT there is a lot blood shed, Israel was order by God to kill the people of Canaa, something that Abraham was blocked of doing....

"But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.” Gn 15:16

For me this verse is a so deep in God revelation, the way He deals with us.....diferent subject....lol

But even in the OT God never authorized wide spread killing....was always very specific.....very objective as the verse above show us...

Nothing like...."kill them whatever you find them".....

I took the Koran verse out of context to show how easy is to say something or to demostrate an ideal that sometimes it has nothing to do with the real meaning....

"Be angry, and do not sin. Meditate within your heart on your bed, and be still. Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, And put your trust in the Lord ." Sl 4:4-5

We believe this is what Jesus did..He got angry....and as you said..He did actions of righteousness.....but no bloodshed killing which would be sin!

Intresting but I think this has to do a lot with freedom of expression....

Regarding the sword passage...it is a strech to belive that He said literly

The next sequence of verses "His betrayal and imprisioment" I think it shows a complete oposit ideia from that one you are trying to say with the pessage...

"When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord, shall we strike with the sword?” And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear. But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and healed him. Luke 22:49-51

Why heal the one you trying to kill?

and if indeed if these swords were literly.....I beleive would had been a tool used a lot by His diciples after His death and even more after His ressurection.....but as you probaly know by the knowledge you show it until now.......history shows that none of the diciples used any type of weapons other than the sword of the Spirit...the word of God....

If they understood the real message,everything they carried with them was only the Word whaever they went...

And they all died...with out figthing back their opositors....

I agree the Peter was a jihadits at the begining...I guess we all are at some degree until God finds us....it took some time for him to understand what Jesus meant by His teachings....and we see that on the last chapter of the gospel of John....

Peter end up dead crucified up side down in Rome.....if he did any jihad...surely was only for preching the word of God that he finaly understood....

As for Judas is just pointless to speak about him....he did not want to have nothing of God....as you said he was a man with wrong intentions and actions...John says he was thief...only intrested in money and probaly social and political position....

But Jesus kingdom was not from earth....he go disapointed and betrayed Jesus...

Sorry I took to long!....lol

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Jo 1:14 NIV....

By the way....I know His glory too!


God Bless! Big Hug!
Reply

sfontel
11-19-2015, 06:02 AM
Also, I forgot, the gospel of Matthew 26:51-53 have more details regarding the sword....take a look...Hug!
Reply

Eric H
11-19-2015, 01:36 PM
Greetings and peace be with you all,

If Britain had a prime minister like Nelson Mandela, I wonder what our answer to terrorism would be? I could not see Nelson Mandela going along with David Cameron's solution, we should bomb Syria with or without the backing of the United Nations.

It seems David Cameron wants our response to mirror the mindless terrorism of drunk, drug taking petty criminals. This cannot end well, more innocent people will die and more people will become angry, creating more terrorists.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric
Reply

Search
11-19-2015, 03:03 PM
Hi, bro Eric H! I'm not surprised (sighs).

Actually, I do want ISIS to be eliminated; but I don't want innocent people to die. I don't know what the right answer is.

For example, I read in the news recently that ISIS, expecting retaliatory attacks for Paris attack, have taken to hiding now in between civilian populations that of course comprises of a lot of women, children, and the elderly; apparently, ISIS is forcing these civilian populations to stay put as ISIS wants to have a better chance of survival.

So, of course, if ISIS is then bombed, they are going to take a lot of the civilian population with them. Of course, since ISIS represents to me a cancer in society, I don't want ISIS to survive. However, I'm forced to ask myself at what cost. You're right; maybe the innocent children who survive this type of horror, seeing the brutal attacks in which their parents, uncles, aunts, and other near and loved ones die as "collateral damage," stand next in line to become the next generation of terrorists. And the cycle continues.

What's the solution? does anyone know.

I don't know. It feels like an old saying, "****ed if you do and ****ed if you don't."

Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you all,

If Britain had a prime minister like Nelson Mandela, I wonder what our answer to terrorism would be? I could not see Nelson Mandela going along with David Cameron's solution, we should bomb Syria with or without the backing of the United Nations.

It seems David Cameron wants our response to mirror the mindless terrorism of drunk, drug taking petty criminals. This cannot end well, more innocent people will die and more people will become angry, creating more terrorists.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric
Reply

Search
11-19-2015, 03:04 PM
Why are the words "d*a*m*n*e*d" blocked with ******? Is it a curse word? That's what I'd written above in case anyone wanted to know.
Reply

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