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Ineed Umar
12-05-2015, 04:29 AM
Some of my annoying brothers say that raping of non-muslims are allowed and we do it on large scales in Sweden and other non Muslim majorities,, but isn't zina amongst the biggest sin? Isn't raping a form of zina regardless of faith? How can a non Muslim turn Muslim by such condemned acts? We are not in war with Sweden or other non Muslim countries are we? Please assist me enlightening them!
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12-05-2015, 04:35 AM
:bism:

:sl:

Sorry, but your brothers sound idiots! And also, yes, they are also extremely misinformed. In-sha-Allah (God-willing) their misogynist attitude is corrected, but I'm concerned about their un-Islamic attitude.

Yes, raping is haram (forbidden) because a woman's worth and dignity is extremely valued in Islam irrespective of her religion.

In the time of RasulAllah salallahu alayhi wasallam (peace and blessings upon him), a man was put to death for raping a woman.

:wa:
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Abz2000
12-05-2015, 04:41 AM
The topic of slavery has been discussed in various threads which many of us went to various lengths to explain until it became clear that the question posers were baiting and much detailed compilation on the topic had to be deleted.
If you are asking in order to comply with Islam and not to create fitnah, suffice it to know that it is a duty upon every human being to submit to God, accept Islam as their way of life, jizya, pig eating, cross and idol worshipping, slavery of humans to humans will all be forbidden.

It is only the corrupt who continue to play about in half falsehood and little to no truth with the intention of living as corrupt imbeciles.
You just received an explanation of how Islam is about to be implemented.
If you are not satisfied with that, remove yourselves to where you can be free from Allah's dominion.
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Search
12-05-2015, 04:56 AM
:bism:

:sl:

@ OP: Islam is free from the evil you've ascribed to the religion.

Islam does not endorse rape and so asking how does Islam justify raping is a weird question in the first place!

Also, before your brother turn out to be rapists believing this asinine theory that it is somehow "justified" under Islam, I ask that you take them to an Islamic scholar and have them actually clarify their doubts about this matter.

Because this is not a joking matter.

:wa:
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Ineed Umar
12-05-2015, 04:57 AM
It disgusts me that due to such groups our whole ummah of global Muslims is portrayed wrong in the eyes of non believers hence taking away potentional of more believers and also forcing some believers out of the faith of Allah at all!

Anyways any tips on how can I enlighten them? I mean I can always say that in the modern era there is no war on going hence there is no slavery and nowadays the concept of slavery is also abolished unlike in the old days, but I also need quranic verses and sunnah to clarify!

Btw just to clarify those were not my literal brothers.
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Search
12-05-2015, 05:06 AM
:bism:

:sl:

I'll PM you the answer with detailed explanation right now In-sha-Allah: That said, your brothers, even if not literal brothers, still sound idiots!

Btw, since you're a limited member, even if you wanted to PM me back for further clarifications or inquiries, you wouldn't be able to until you become a full member. In-sha-Allah though whatever is provided will be enough.

:wa:
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Search
12-05-2015, 05:23 AM
:bism:

:sl:

PM sent.

Read the entire explanation In-sha-Allah and also especially the link provided within the explanation.

And yes, your brothers should strive to get an education in Islam, NOT the Internet kind but the scholarly kind. Your brothers' presumptions regarding the matter seriously disgusts and offends me as a woman!

:wa:
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Logikon
12-07-2015, 02:07 AM
The point is that somebody actually thinks that raping non-muslim women is just fine.

The reason they think that is because they have been taught it in the Muslim society where they were brought up.

Remember how Islam has never changed? The Koran has never been corrupted?

Well, somebody taught them that raping non muslim women is OK. Who could that possibly have been?
Reply

Search
12-07-2015, 02:30 AM
:bism:

Excuse me, who knows!

Btw, as a woman, I'd say that men in general take the blame for this type of thing in the first place because fathers in our Muslim and non-Muslim societies do not teach their boys to respect women as human beings.

Excuse me, I live in the United States, and I can't remember how many times men and women participate in s1ut-shaming the woman. There was a 11-year old girl who was gang-raped by 19 men in the United States and I remember reading from a reputable newspaper (not the one to which I have provided you a hyperlink) published nonsense like she was culpable also because she wore make-up and looked older.

Especially wherein the non-Muslim girl has been raped, despite laws in place that should prevent this very type of anti-women rhetoric, things like where she was when the event happened, her sexual history, and all of that are explored as a means of shaming her in the U.S., as if it is her fault.

So, please don't even pretend that you have the high moral ground here, bud, case you don't!

Originally Posted by Logikon
The point is that somebody actually thinks that raping non-muslim women is just fine.

The reason they think that is because they have been taught it in the Muslim society where they were brought up.

Remember how Islam has never changed? The Koran has never been corrupted?

Well, somebody taught them that raping non muslim women is OK. Who could that possibly have been?
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
12-24-2015, 01:57 AM
Originally Posted by Logikon
The point is that somebody actually thinks that raping non-muslim women is just fine.

The reason they think that is because they have been taught it in the Muslim society where they were brought up.

Remember how Islam has never changed? The Koran has never been corrupted?

Well, somebody taught them that raping non muslim women is OK. Who could that possibly have been?
The Qur'aan never changed.

That does not mean Muslims did not change.

Who ever taught them whatever they taught them was wrong.
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Zafran
12-24-2015, 04:50 AM
Originally Posted by Logikon
The point is that somebody actually thinks that raping non-muslim women is just fine.

The reason they think that is because they have been taught it in the Muslim society where they were brought up.

Remember how Islam has never changed? The Koran has never been corrupted?

Well, somebody taught them that raping non muslim women is OK. Who could that possibly have been?
It seems to be you as you clearly know the reasons (sarcasm).
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Zafran
12-24-2015, 04:56 AM
Originally Posted by Ineed Umar
Some of my annoying brothers say that raping of non-muslims are allowed and we do it on large scales in Sweden and other non Muslim majorities,, but isn't zina amongst the biggest sin? Isn't raping a form of zina regardless of faith? How can a non Muslim turn Muslim by such condemned acts? We are not in war with Sweden or other non Muslim countries are we? Please assist me enlightening them!
Either your a troll or the people you knock around with are criminals. You and your "brothers" need to learn 101 Islam and not some superiority complex rape idea.

It doesnt matter if your at war or not - ask yourself this if its OK for them to rape people - then why cant other people rape the "brothers" relatives? They could justify the same way they are.

Peoples right, honor and dignity have to be respected because God ennobled the people of Adam and all of humanity - also stop thinking in black and white. This shouldn't even be a question. No wonder this ummah is getting messed up.
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Ineed Umar
12-25-2015, 03:15 PM
Ok call me a troll, but it doesn't change the fact I recited the shahada over a hundred times in my life and was by the grace of God a born Muslim and would never question anything unless there is a justified reason to ask for a reason


Now my "Brothers" are Internet addicts and all their news comes from the internet. Nowsometimes in October sometimes they read an article regarding Sweden Muslims justifying raping and even reciting dua before doing so. I wasn't bothered only for the fact I knew they were bad people from heart and ruining the ummah, I prayed to Allah for the benefit for the ummah. But wouldn't you like to prevent this all? Teach those in Sweden justice? I was just asking a good scholarly advice from you guys as in my area many scholars are not properly educated. Besides two is always better than one.
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AbdurRahman.
12-25-2015, 09:23 PM
those idiots who told u that are extremists of the worst kind. somehow they think, 'Sweden is darul harb [abode of war] and muslims are at war with kuffar so we can 'enslave their women' thus they become sexually halaal for us'

this is non-sensical thinking.

every muslim is obliged to obey the law of the country he lives in
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ardianto
12-25-2015, 10:23 PM
A non-Muslim in forum said that Qur'an and hadith can be used to justify almost anything. Hmm, .... that's right. But it doesn't mean this justification is valid.

I give example. There are Muslims who say that in cold weather like winter, drinking alcohol is allowed because Muslims need to warm their bodies. Their argument is, in the case of emergency, consume something haram is allowed. Is this argument valid?. No!. First, without consume alcohol they still can survive in winter. Second, there are many available hot drink like chocolate or coffee to warm their bodies.

So, is raping in Islam justified?. They can use any ayah or hadith to justify rape, but doesn't mean their justification is valid.
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TMGuide
12-25-2015, 10:38 PM
Subhanllaah, :raging: I would like to think this is just a troll. "WE do it on large scales in Sweden and other non Muslim majorities" :heated:
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Search
12-26-2015, 12:09 AM
:bism:

:sl:

Originally Posted by Ineed Umar
Now my "Brothers" are Internet addicts and all their news comes from the internet. Nowsometimes in October sometimes they read an article regarding Sweden Muslims justifying raping and even reciting dua before doing so.
I apologize if my bluntness offended you.

Seriously though, your brothers are already starting from a erroneous premise and thereby their conclusion is erroneous.

Do you see what is wrong with your bros here?

So, if I say the dua (supplication) "bismillah" before drinking alcohol, that should be fine, right? Even though in the Quran and ahadith (prophetic traditions) themselves say that alcohol is forbidden?

Originally Posted by Ineed Umar
But wouldn't you like to prevent this all? Teach those in Sweden justice? I was just asking a good scholarly advice from you guys as in my area many scholars are not properly educated. Besides two is always better than one.
I hope you know that your "brothers" have a psychological narcissism lacking empathy within their minds and diseased hearts if they honestly believe they can rape non-Muslim women, and the problem does not in any way have anything to do with Islam. The problem is with them.

Scholars can give them knowledge, but they cannot cure their lack of empathy and diseased hearts; that is something that they need to rectify within themselves.

Maybe you can give them books on tasawwuf (Islamic spirituality) and taqwa (God-consciousness).

Maybe you can yourself take the initiative to visit with them to a crisis counseling center consisting of rape survivor group and observe the victims tell their stories because that way they may learn that rape is not simply an act of sex but an act of pure evil that hurts the victim's body, harms the mind, and oppresses the soul.

By the way, your brothers are not alone apparently in their sick and twisted thinking because a new study conducted by researchers at University of North Dakota discovered that one in three college men admitted they would rape a woman if it wasn't called "rape" and they knew no one would find out and they wouldn't face any consequences.

I don't really know what else to say because the more I think about your brothers' twisted thinking, the more disgusted I am, and I cannot help but dress the matter up in any other way.

By the way, if it ever turns out that your brothers rape, I hope they are caught and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

:wa:
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sister herb
12-29-2015, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Ineed Umar
Some of my annoying brothers say that raping of non-muslims are allowed and we do it on large scales in Sweden and other non Muslim majorities,, but isn't zina amongst the biggest sin? Isn't raping a form of zina regardless of faith? How can a non Muslim turn Muslim by such condemned acts? We are not in war with Sweden or other non Muslim countries are we? Please assist me enlightening them!
I bet your annoying brothers have listened a little too much daesh-like propaganda and with weak knowledge of their religion they have thought it is what Islam really teaches. They need a proper education about Islam so they then can separate what really belongs to Islam and what doesn´t. Also, advice them not to read the islamophobic sites - there people might claim kind of things too.
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MuslimInshallah
12-29-2015, 09:57 PM
Assalaamu alaikum Ineed,


Mmm... the short answer is that raping isn't justified. And frankly, from what I understand, the source for this permission seems to be internet rumours about general media reporting that apparently there are some Muslim men in Sweden who say this! This is hardly Islamic scholarship!!!

For those who might be interested, I'm posting a sahih hadith from Al-Bukhari. There is also a comment by Az-Zuhri, an early Islamic scholar who got a lot of his information directly from the Sahaba. There are, of course, many other ahadith that could be discussed and analysed, as well, of course, as the Qur'an. And frankly, to really look at these questions questions of sexuality and slavery is the work of a serious scholar. I've personally looked into these questions a fair bit, and this could easily be at least a Master's thesis. Anything less would be too shallow.

Ardianto also has an excellent point: people can take bits of the Qur'an and ahadith and can try to justify just about anything. (musingly) I think this is why the Classical Islamic scholars described the Qur'an as the mirror of the soul. As it says right at the beginning of Surah Al-Baqarah: The Qur'an is a Guide for those who are conscious of God.

To put it another way: there are (in my opinion) fundamentally two ways to read the Qur'an: 1) You look to the Qur'an with an open and questing heart trying to understand God's Will to apply to your life or 2) You look to the Qur'an in order to use it for some reason. To justify an action you want to take, for instance. Or to try to force someone else into accepting your will by using bits of the Qur'an. But you are not looking for Guidance.

Therefore, if your intentions are pure, the Qur'an will mirror your purity, and you will be Guided. But if your intentions are not pure, then you will not find Guidance. You will only see the reflection of the ugliness in your heart.

(smile) In reality, I think we tend to look at the Qur'an somewhere on a spectrum. That is, sometimes we have pure intentions, and are Guided, and sometimes we don't, and we won't be Guided. The amount of Guidance depends on the amount of sincerity, it seems to me.


May Allah, the One To Whom Belong All the Beautiful Names, Help us to access the bounty of His Guidance.



Chapter: If a woman is compelled to commit illegal sexual intercourse against her will
(6)
باب إِذَا اسْتُكْرِهَتِ الْمَرْأَةُ عَلَى الزِّنَا، فَلاَ حَدَّ عَلَيْهَا


فِي قَوْلِهِ تَعَالَى: {وَمَنْ يُكْرِهْهُنَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ مِنْ بَعْدِ إِكْرَاهِهِنَّ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ}.




And Safiyya bint 'Ubaid said:
"A governmental male-slave tried to seduce a slave-girl from the Khumus of the war booty till he deflowered her by force against her will; therefore 'Umar flogged him according to the law, and exiled him, but he did not flog the female slave because the male-slave had committed illegal sexual intercourse by force, against her will." Az-Zuhri said regarding a virgin slave-girl raped by a free man: The judge has to fine the adulterer as much money as is equal to the price of the female slave and the adulterer has to be flogged (according to the Islamic Law); but if the slave woman is a matron, then, according to the verdict of the Imam, the adulterer is not fined but he has to receive the legal punishment (according to the Islamic Law).



وَقَالَ اللَّيْثُ حَدَّثَنِي نَافِعٌ، أَنَّ صَفِيَّةَ ابْنَةَ أَبِي عُبَيْدٍ، أَخْبَرَتْهُ أَنَّ عَبْدًا مِنْ رَقِيقِ الإِمَارَةِ وَقَعَ عَلَى وَلِيدَةٍ مِنَ الْخُمُسِ، فَاسْتَكْرَهَهَا حَتَّى افْتَضَّهَا، فَجَلَدَهُ عُمَرُ الْحَدَّ وَنَفَاهُ، وَلَمْ يَجْلِدِ الْوَلِيدَةَ مِنْ أَجْلِ أَنَّهُ اسْتَكْرَهَهَا‏.‏ قَالَ الزُّهْرِيُّ فِي الأَمَةِ الْبِكْرِ، يَفْتَرِعُهَا الْحُرُّ، يُقِيمُ ذَلِكَ الْحَكَمُ مِنَ الأَمَةِ الْعَذْرَاءِ بِقَدْرِ قِيمَتِهَا، وَيُجْلَدُ، وَلَيْسَ فِي الأَمَةِ الثَّيِّبِ فِي قَضَاءِ الأَئِمَّةِ غُرْمٌ، وَلَكِنْ عَلَيْهِ الْحَدُّ‏.‏

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 6949
In-book reference : Book 89, Hadith 10
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 85, Hadith 81
(deprecated numbering scheme)

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Kiro
12-29-2015, 11:25 PM
Logically speaking. Islam forbade the practise of rape and you are only allowed to sexual intercourse with your spouses. Outside of that is zina, the biggest sin in Islam.
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keiv
12-29-2015, 11:51 PM
Originally Posted by Logikon
The point is that somebody actually thinks that raping non-muslim women is just fine.

The reason they think that is because they have been taught it in the Muslim society where they were brought up.

Remember how Islam has never changed? The Koran has never been corrupted?

Well, somebody taught them that raping non muslim women is OK. Who could that possibly have been?
Same people who tell us that being homosexual, bisexual, trisexual, transgender, etc. is OK.

hollywoodsign 1615566a 1 -
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Scimitar
12-30-2015, 12:01 AM
Originally Posted by Ineed Umar
Ok call me a troll,
Troll.
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Ineed Umar
01-11-2016, 03:56 AM
Apologies to everyone, I didn't mean to hurt anyone's sentiments, but mashallah thanks to your posts which I have showed them they are asking of mercy by Allah! Again I am sorry if I said something wrong or like a troll because it was my first time in the forum and my first thread so don't mind. Also I just posted what I read on the media and was brainwashed by it but now I have realized the truth of media exaggerating.

May Allah forgive me if I have done anything wrong.
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Ineed Umar
01-11-2016, 04:02 AM
I am so sorry about that sentecne, I actually wanted to write they but I type so fast from my mobile phone I missed some some alphabets and it autocorrected it to we.

I had no wrong intentions posting this I just wander to prevent some people wrong doing.
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Search
01-11-2016, 04:13 AM
:bism:

:sl:

I am glad that you showed your brothers the posts; and I'm glad that your brothers are repenting of their bad thoughts. Please know that Allah SWT is extremely merciful; and I'm glad that you were concerned and took the time to address their concerns.

Please tell your brothers if they have the time that there's a site in which Islamic scholars for the sake of Allah SWT teach Islam in many different free courses, and those courses will be In-sha-Allah enlightening for them and also wonderful for their spiritual development; the site is called Seekershub to which I'm also linking you within this post.

Also, tell them if they don't mind to join this Islamic Forum because In-sha-Allah they'll at least be around other Muslims which should also help them develop soft hearts and have the correct attitude regarding the dignity and honor of human beings. I'm glad that you posted; if we helped in any manner, small or big, then all praise and thanks is to Allah.

Thank you for writing to us, and I'm sorry and apologize for any words that I said that might have hurt your feelings or your brothers' feelings. Please feel free to become a regular member of this site. We are happy to welcome you and also your brothers if they want to join because all of you are our brothers in Islam, and the only reason we corrected you all is because we want the best for you here and hereafter In-sha-Allah.

:wa:

Originally Posted by Ineed Umar
I am so sorry about that sentecne, I actually wanted to write they but I type so fast from my mobile phone I missed some some alphabets and it autocorrected it to we.

I had no wrong intentions posting this I just wander to prevent some people wrong doing.
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