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Lisa921
12-20-2015, 02:18 AM
Assalamu alaykum
I just want to give the men a clear statement that is a common misunderstanding between them and converts.
Here it is:
Most converts DO NOT want to be a second wife okay so quit asking us. lol. sorry but I hear it too much and want it to stop pronto.

That being said, I want to discuss this issue because I feel it really hurts my beliefs to feel this way but I can't help it. I feel deeply that a man can't truly and loyally love a woman when he is having intimate moments with more women than her. That is deeply ingrained into me. But in islam men are allowed to do that.
I just want to know why men would even want that . Please help me understand. I know I will not marry a married man ever. And I will not stay with a man who takes another wife and that's my right as a woman. But I want to feel empathy and not judgement for people who do polygamy.
so lets discuss it in some civil manner.
lisa
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Ali.Fahed
12-20-2015, 03:17 AM
It's not all man that are willing to have a second wife, in fact I believe it's a minority.

But I don't see anything wrong in it, in fact I think it's better to be married and do it in Halal than as lot of people in other cultures that are cheating behind their spouses and in those cultures they see it as something normal.
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greenhill
12-20-2015, 03:33 AM
I'll start with my thoughts on the matter.

A bit of background first... I come from a polygamous family. My dad had two wives, both grandads also had two wives and I have a huge family and we get along.

We have to take a look at why this was granted in the first place and not look at why it is done these days.

First of all, the holy prophet during his first marriage only had one wife, Khadijah. There was no other.

After her death the prophet took on more wives and by and large it was for the purpose of uniting tribes and freeing slaves.

We could go further in this vein and marry a widower to provide for her and her children, or take on adopted children and have someone care for them.

The purpose of it I see as having ultimately a strong community where, if the spirit of polygamy is kept, there will be very little orphans and widowers left to fend for themselves..

Most modern polygamous relationships are due to lust.. not that it is wrong, but I can feel for the ageing wife when the ageing husband marries a young bride.

Just to add, I can see how my dad loved both his wives in very different ways. And both wives loving him differently. Neither really liked the idea but received no less (except time).

I don't think I would ever have more than one at a time but what the world's situation in time to come Allahu alem.

I saw in a talk on YouTube by Sheikh Imran Hosein where a telecommunications company field personnel installing their telecommunication towers had no male offspring, all staff had only females. . due to the effect of the radio waves? What if were to cause the lessening of male births in the future? Then what? Women will be stealing husbands from each other. Made me think...

I don't know Allah's plans...

:peace:
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Search
12-20-2015, 03:37 AM
:bism:

:sl:

Hey, sweetie!

Hope you're doing awesome!

I don't think all Muslim men want more than one wife, nor is there any requirement in Islam that a man should have more than one wife. However, if he honestly feels he can be God-conscious enough to do justice, then having one wife already is not an encumbrance to marrying another wife. Also, while Islam has made this practice permissible, culturally, men from differ on whether they'd like to adopt this practice or not depending on their ethnic backgrounds.

To be honest, I think people can be happy in polygamous marriages and also unhappy depending on the people involved. Also, there's an article on this subject from a Mormon woman's perspective that I'd read a long time ago that might benefit you if I can honestly find it, but Sir Google is not helping me any so far - sorry, hun, about that - but I'll keep a look-out for it and send it to you In-sha-Allah.

And sis, it's your absolute right if you're uncomfortable with being a co-wife to reject a man who's already married.

Dunno if that helps, but if it does, Alhamdhullilah.

Jazkallah khayran, sis, for trying to understand this subject.

:wa:

Originally Posted by Lisa921
Assalamu alaykum
I just want to give the men a clear statement that is a common misunderstanding between them and converts.
Here it is:
Most converts DO NOT want to be a second wife okay so quit asking us. lol. sorry but I hear it too much and want it to stop pronto.

That being said, I want to discuss this issue because I feel it really hurts my beliefs to feel this way but I can't help it. I feel deeply that a man can't truly and loyally love a woman when he is having intimate moments with more women than her. That is deeply ingrained into me. But in islam men are allowed to do that.
I just want to know why men would even want that . Please help me understand. I know I will not marry a married man ever. And I will not stay with a man who takes another wife and that's my right as a woman. But I want to feel empathy and not judgement for people who do polygamy.
so lets discuss it in some civil manner.
lisa
Reply

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ardianto
12-20-2015, 08:11 AM
Wa'alaikumsalam.

I've ever married for 19 years until my beloved wife returned to Allah, two years ago. People say I was a good husband because I was very loyal to my late wife. Indeed, I never wanted to have second wife. But, honestly, that's because I married by my own choice. If I married in arranged marriage, probably I would have second wife.

One cause of polygamy marriage among Muslim men in some Muslim societies (not all), is arranged marriage. Their families force them to marry women who chosen by the families, while those men want to marry by their own choice. So they make the solution, they marry the women that chosen by the families, and then take the second wives by their own choices. I can understand it. Frankly, if I was in those men position, probably I would do the same thing too.

But of course, not every polygamy in Muslim societies happen because this cause. There are other causes too, like lust that even more common.
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AhmedGassama
12-20-2015, 11:32 AM
How about this ? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlWEvQ4fvY4
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KhalidDaPoet
12-20-2015, 06:22 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

Without doubt we all know the Qur'an texts and examples in Sunnah of marrying more than one woman. Instead, we must understand Allah (s.w.t) knows all and is the Most Wise. For us to question His reasoning even if we don't mean to is a hazard and can lead us down a very dark and dangerous path.

One interpretation of the verse in which Allah (s.w.t) specifically says a man can marry multiple but if he can't treat them equally marry one is of the word 'equal' does not imply Western connotation of 'same'. Meaning each woman is different. Each man is different. How you love one person in comparison to another is different. Allah (s.w.t) is telling us that 'equal' in this verse means 'equitable'.

So if I buy a red dress for one wife I can't buy the same dress for another. What about if she hates dresses and the color red? Or if one of my wives like shopping and material things while the other doesn't? So in this context Allah (s.w.t) is telling us that loving two wives or three or four is possible because each of them has different needs and requests. You might love one wife because of her humor and another because of her sincerity. You love them both equally but because of different reasons.

This same line of thinking is used when asking who can men marry? Allah (s.w.t) describes to us if it is an orphan, widow, chief/king's daughter (in order to bring together kinship and ties), your first wife can't bare children, etc. These are different reasons and individuals a man is allowed to marry without question.

Further one opinion in all four Madhabs is that if you believe your first wife will get jealous even if you marry one of these individuals than you aren't required to tell her you are getting married or got married. So what we notice is that Allah (s.w.t) gives us strict rules in accordance with Qur'an and Sunnah. Allah (s.w.t) makes it aware Men are allowed and some men have the faith and sincerity to care for multiple wives equitably as well as women feeling jealousy (so Allah protects them by not forcing the husband to reveal his decision).

All of this leads us to why a man wants to marry a second. It is clear one of the reasons is because it is allowed. Another reason because it is human nature. Human nature goes both ways. It can be out of sincerity, compassion, and/or eman to marry another woman in order to be the helping hand she needs. Or it can be out of lust and/or greed. Both are viable options.

I can't speak for all men so I will say those are the two reasons. It is your right to say no and reject a brother's proposal. But to answer why they might be asking you in particular? One of the reasons is because reverts (a Muslim reverts or comes back to the original state they were in which was Muslim at birth) because reverts are seen as more religious and God fearing than those who are born Muslim and stay that way.

I am not saying this is true for all but it is a general statement that can be true generally. This is one reason why brothers are asking you because they feel that your emaan and taqwa would allow you to say yes. It is your choice at the end of the day.
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M.I.A.
12-20-2015, 08:09 PM
I would assume you and I are privileged.. Even if we do not think ourselves to be so.

And that is literally the simplest answer I can give.

...although imo one wife is moooore than enough o_0 lol sorry :p

It's not the only reason, the answers complexity increases with thought.

...and intent is always a personal matter.

I can't even paraphrase the hadith(s)... Sorry.

It's just an imo at the moment.

I don't know what makes the ship sail?



...ah hem, whatever floats your boat! *runs away*


The flip side is that the western world finds it normal to have multiple partners before marriage, mistresses and the like..

While you can understand, finding multiple wives legitimately.. Is probably a lot harder.
Reply

DanEdge
12-21-2015, 02:35 AM
Greetings,

I think about it this way: would I want my woman to have another husband? To share her bed with another man? I'd guess she feels the same way about it I do.

--Dan Edge
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Search
12-21-2015, 03:13 AM
^^^

:bism:

Maybe I'm strange, but at least theoretically, I have never minded or felt any objection to my future husband having more than wife. And the reason is because I have always felt strongly that I didn't/don't need anyone in my life distracting me from God. I think sometimes husbands and wives in their relationship with one another can make each other more immersed in worldly matters and this life is not the end-goal, at least from the perspective of the hereafter. At least for me, I have always felt that God is the Ultimate Beloved, the One Goal.

That said, sometime ago, I fell for someone in a halal (religiously free of forbidden matters) marriage process talk that didn't pan out. I still think about him, and sometimes I feel miserable because of liking him so much and knowing that we're not going to be together unless God does a miracle. For a while, I felt a little obsessed and too depressed, that when that wasn't even love and yet it's as close as I have come to it in my life. Sometimes I think worldly love for human beings can be million times worse in something akin like that for a female or male that falls in love, be it relationships or marriage.

While I think love is a great barometer of an atom of understanding the divine love that God has for us and put in each one of us to give to one another as human beings, I think to love a human being in that way is a recipe for heartache in the long-run because even in the best relationships human beings will disappoint us. Also, the heart cosmically in Islam is described as a divine vessel that can only be filled with love of God and God, and filling that space with anything but the Divine Presence is considered attaining to a shadow, a chimera, a mirage.

Women especially grow much more emotionally attached to the men in their lives than men. Women make men the entire center of their world, and for that, usually suffer; whereas men generally do not do that.

Thereby, I think polygamous marriages, to be honest, are more meant to protect the women from those type of excesses in emotion, though some feminine jealousy in the above scenario is natural as human egos (in both male and female) never prefer anyone to have precedence over us in anything - be it in love or life.

Just my thoughts.
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ardianto
12-21-2015, 05:46 AM
I know personally with few men who commit polygamy. I have no problem with them, they have no problem with me who choose to be monogamous. But unfortunately, when I look at another side I see provocative attitude of some polygamous Muslims who always urge other Muslims to commit polygamy, call monogamous Muslims as people who against sunnah.

I often wonder, why can't they have attitude like polygamous Muslims who I know personally, that can respect other Muslims who choose monogamy?.

Probably, sister Lisa created this thread because she felt this provocative attitude.
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Lisa921
06-29-2016, 05:26 PM
sis, those are some deep thoughts. Masha Allah. Women do develop stronger attachments to men and jealousy issues. I think this is because of the vunerability we are in when we choose to make a family with a man and be dependent on him while our kids are small. I guess seen in that light if the man really wants polygamy so his wives can have a big family then I see it plausible that they will be happy since woman have a natural love to caretake and have kids (most woman).
BUt if the man is just playing the field and 'imitating the nonmuslims' by having some awful 'halal' affairs with numerous lets say up to four woman without settling with any of them and without giving any of them a proper life then thats what makes polygamy look disgusting in my opinion. and it seems more of the youth today view polygamy from that dark side(out of ignorance).
Someone brought up mormons but they were doing polygamy in the west in a respectful way for numerous years. The muslims who I have heard speak of polygamy in the west just talk about as being like nonmuslims and having 'halal' girlfriends on the side. which is a disgusting attitude in my opinion. why do they liken something Allah ordained permissible to something even nonmuslim precieve as disgraceful and sordid?? seriously.

Originally Posted by Search
^^^

:bism:

Maybe I'm strange, but at least theoretically, I have never minded or felt any objection to my future husband having more than wife. And the reason is because I have always felt strongly that I didn't/don't need anyone in my life distracting me from God. I think sometimes husbands and wives in their relationship with one another can make each other more immersed in worldly matters and this life is not the end-goal, at least from the perspective of the hereafter. At least for me, I have always felt that God is the Ultimate Beloved, the One Goal.

That said, sometime ago, I fell for someone in a halal (religiously free of forbidden matters) marriage process talk that didn't pan out. I still think about him, and sometimes I feel miserable because of liking him so much and knowing that we're not going to be together unless God does a miracle. For a while, I felt a little obsessed and too depressed, that when that wasn't even love and yet it's as close as I have come to it in my life. Sometimes I think worldly love for human beings can be million times worse in something akin like that for a female or male that falls in love, be it relationships or marriage.

While I think love is a great barometer of an atom of understanding the divine love that God has for us and put in each one of us to give to one another as human beings, I think to love a human being in that way is a recipe for heartache in the long-run because even in the best relationships human beings will disappoint us. Also, the heart cosmically in Islam is described as a divine vessel that can only be filled with love of God and God, and filling that space with anything but the Divine Presence is considered attaining to a shadow, a chimera, a mirage.

Women especially grow much more emotionally attached to the men in their lives than men. Women make men the entire center of their world, and for that, usually suffer; whereas men generally do not do that.

Thereby, I think polygamous marriages, to be honest, are more meant to protect the women from those type of excesses in emotion, though some feminine jealousy in the above scenario is natural as human egos (in both male and female) never prefer anyone to have precedence over us in anything - be it in love or life.

Just my thoughts.
Reply

darullemon
06-29-2016, 07:21 PM
Muslim Men marry more than one cuz if one makes your life miserable and tough you can go over to the next one and complain about her. joking....

In Islam there is provision to marry four. Its not mandatory to have more than one wife. Some of them dont marry all their life and few marry more than one. This polygamy is not a blanket statement for all Muslim Men.

Just as is the case for Non-Muslim Men, some of them enter into relationships with multiple women marry one of them, then leave move on to next one which is worse. Am not saying everyone does, just saying I dont see anyone complaining about this attitude.
Reply

Lisa921
06-29-2016, 07:42 PM
sorry i have to edit my first sentence because i misread your response...

my point is that muslim men don't respect the religious requirements or they are ignorant in the west and don't do it properly. I am saying that look at the christians who allow polygamy and they are obviously much happy in the west then muslims in the west who practise the same.
the majority of muslim men who i have seen *******ize the idea of polygamy in order to have multiple 'halal' girlfriends and not one of them gets a proper marriage.
I rarely see women in muslim polygamy in the west who live a happy existance. Most just put the best fake smile on their face and secretly cry.

Originally Posted by darullemon
Muslim Men marry more than one cuz if one makes your life miserable and tough you can go over to the next one and complain about her. joking....

In Islam there is provision to marry four. Its not mandatory to have more than one wife. Some of them dont marry all their life and few marry more than one. This polygamy is not a blanket statement for all Muslim Men.

Just as is the case for Non-Muslim Men, some of them enter into relationships with multiple women marry one of them, then leave move on to next one which is worse. Am not saying everyone does, just saying I dont see anyone complaining about this attitude.
Reply

darullemon
06-29-2016, 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by Lisa921
sorry i have to edit my first sentence because i misread your response...

my point is that muslim men don't respect the religious requirements or they are ignorant in the west and don't do it properly. I am saying that look at the christians who allow polygamy and they are obviously much happy in the west then muslims in the west who practise the same.
the majority of muslim men who i have seen *******ize the idea of polygamy in order to have multiple 'halal' girlfriends and not one of them gets a proper marriage.
I rarely see women in muslim polygamy in the west who live a happy existance. Most just put the best fake smile on their face and secretly cry.

Interesting to know that you have met every single Muslim and Non-Muslim polygamist in the west and they shared their marital lives with a complete stranger.
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Lisa921
06-29-2016, 08:56 PM
i do have lots of friends alhamdulillah.
you would surprise what people share with a polite stranger who lends a non judgemental ear.
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Lisa921
06-30-2016, 07:45 PM
salaam alaykum
I am truely apologetic if I offended anyone with the way I see things...but unfortunately those are the situations go on all around me in the west...and I am very sad by it.
I have come to see through maturity that allah ordains polygamy as permissible for a reason. However, I can't help but be angry when I see people, mostly men abusing their rights.
so Thats why i came to the views I came to and I hope it is clear now.
being that it is ramadan...I don't want to continue this discussion without an apology for being harsh.
thanks
lisa
Reply

Scimitar
06-30-2016, 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by Lisa921
Assalamu alaykum
Walakum salaam :D

Originally Posted by Lisa921
I just want to give the men a clear statement that is a common misunderstanding between them and converts.
Here it is:
Most converts DO NOT want to be a second wife okay so quit asking us. lol. sorry but I hear it too much and want it to stop pronto.
Wait. if you are male, then why is your name Lisa and why does it show you as a female?

Originally Posted by Lisa921
That being said, I want to discuss this issue because I feel it really hurts my beliefs to feel this way but I can't help it. I feel deeply that a man can't truly and loyally love a woman when he is having intimate moments with more women than her. That is deeply ingrained into me. But in islam men are allowed to do that.
It hurts your beliefs? what beliefs? that it should be one man and woman per marriage? Would you now apply your lack of critical thinking to all men?

I LIVE IN THE WEST TOO - and guess what? neither your nation nor mine allow polygany, so what are you talking about - are you entertaining delusions?

Originally Posted by Lisa921
I just want to know why men would even want that . Please help me understand. I know I will not marry a married man ever. And I will not stay with a man who takes another wife and that's my right as a woman. But I want to feel empathy and not judgement for people who do polygamy.
so lets discuss it in some civil manner.
lisa
I'm a man, and guess what? I've yet to meet a Muslim who lives in the west who actually has more than one wife.

Sorry if my post offends your delicate sensibilities but you are totally in the world of your own making.

Have you ever been a co-wife to a man? If the answer is NO, then please - do not apply your bias to those who can actually maintain more than one wife... surely if they couldn't they'd be divorced.

And just becuase you say you might know an example or two, that didn't work out - that does not give you the authority to base your opinion off such a small sample, what it does do though is make you sound ridiculous.

When I was in KSA, I met men who had many wives, and none of them seemed unhappy, they even hung around together.

Do yourself a favour - get out more, visit some Muslim nations and see for yourself how they do it before you brand all Muslim men as hungry for mor than one wife lol - I'm forty and unmarried and the thought of just one wife scares the crap outta me after what I've witnessed lol

Ciao for now

Scimi
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Lisa921
06-30-2016, 10:20 PM
SAlaam alaykum scimi.
Thanks! You quote everything except my last message where I apologized already. geezzzzz
thanks for making me look like a complete ---. lol :)
thanks bro. much appreciated. haha
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
06-30-2016, 10:34 PM
:sl:

Sister it is not just "Muslim men" that desire more than one partner but men in general. This is because it is in the nature of man to be polygamous. However we do not expect women to understand this just as man does not understand many things about the nature of women. But it is enough to know that polygamy is something that is permissable in Islam - as long as one follows the rules and does not transgress beyong the acceptable limits. For eg a man must do justice between his wives and share his time and resources fairly and justly.

Polygamy exists in the previous scriptures too as it was also practiced by Jews and Christians of the past. Many non Muslim men have a number of girlfriends at the same time. However Muslims are not allowed to have girlfriends and so it is permitted for us to have more than one wife if we are able to provide for her and do justice between the wives. If not then a man should not have more than one wife.

There are many wisdoms behind polygamy. One of them being like in the time of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) where he married different tribes to create unity between tribes and also to marry widows and divorcees many of whom hav little hope of marrying again. Also in general there are more women than men and also in wars there are many widows left behind especially when men die through warfare. This is especially evident in Syria right now. Also in the future it is said there will be 50 women to one man. This may be due to many wars. In that case if every man were to marry then there will be many many women left unable to get married as there are not enough men available.

Also it is wrong to say "reverts do not want to be second wives". There are many revert sisters who understand the wisdom behind polygamy and are second wives. It is in the nature of women is to be jealous. Even the Aisha (Ra) was jealous on many occassions of the Prophets (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) wives. This is understandable but one must not ones own personal desires, anger, bitterness and jealousy to hate that which is permissable as polygamy was something also practiced by the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) and there is much hikmah (wisdom) behind polygamy and it can be very beneficial to Muslim society as long as it is not abused.

May Allah enable us to accept that which he has ordained. Ameen

And Allah knows best in all matters
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Scimitar
07-01-2016, 12:52 AM
Originally Posted by Lisa921
SAlaam alaykum scimi.
Thanks! You quote everything except my last message where I apologized already. geezzzzz
thanks for making me look like a complete ---. lol :)
thanks bro. much appreciated. haha
What did you expect? I don't cut corners.

You came here with one heck of a bias, and you expected us to feed it? come on.

Scimi
Reply

Marina-Aisha
07-01-2016, 01:13 PM
I hope one day I would have strength to say to my husband I'm okay u to have second wife. Not all reverts are against it, I watched this documentary on bbc about Britain's reverting to Islam there was one sister that was Co wife she was very happy.

As long as the husband treats the equally and has strong eman and understands the deen I don't see anything wrong with it.
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AboBakar
07-01-2016, 02:00 PM
They wanted to be the leaders of all The Angels of Aallah SWT . This is why .
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