How 70,000 Muslim Clerics Are Standing Up To Terrorism

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How 70,000 Muslim Clerics Are Standing Up To Terrorism
Religious leaders are emphasizing that they don't consider terrorists to be true Muslims.
12/11/2015 11:17 am ET | Updated Dec 11, 2015

Almost 70,000 Muslim clerics have come together to pass a fatwa against global terrorist organizations, including the Taliban, al Qaeda and the militant group that calls itself the Islamic State.

During an annual gathering of South Asian Sunni Muslims in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh this week, almost 1.5 million attendees signed a document protesting global terrorist activity, according to The Times of India.

This bolstered "clerics from across the world, who were part of the event, [to pass] the fatwa," said one of the clerics, Mufti Mohammed Saleem Noori. They want to spread the message that they don't consider groups like the Islamic State to be true Islamic organizations -- nor do they view members of these organizations as Muslims.

The chairman of the gathering said that last month's terror attacks in Paris, for which the Islamic State has claimed credit, inspired the group of clerics to pass the fatwa in order to spread the message that Muslims condemn terrorism.

Sunni seminaries in India have been passing similar fatwas since 2008, The Hindu reports, but clerics are now particularly disturbed by the Islamic State. "This terror group has killed far more Muslims than Christians, westerners or any other religious community," said Maulana Qasim Nomani, a seminary leader. "It is a terror group with political ambitions."

"It is written in the Quran that killing one innocent person is equivalent to killing all humanity," said Mohammed Ehsan Raza Khan, the head of a shrine in Rajasthan.

Clerics also condemned Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump for proposing an immigration and travel ban on Muslims coming to the U.S. earlier this week. This kind of policy would "only cultivate hatred and divide people," one cleric said.

Source

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[Snel]

"This terror group has killed far more Muslims than Christians, westerners or any other religious community," - Apparently according to this guy shia are muslims.

Isn't it time to talk about the hundreds of thousands of muslims that have been killed be USA, France, UK and the rest of their coalition? Where is your support for the muslims that are being killed, tortured and displaced? Let alone your condemnation of their aggressor?

[sister herb]

If we condemn one (Daesh, Taleban etc.), it does not mean that we would accept the other´s crimes against Muslims (or any other people). Crimes of the western coalition don´t make crimes of others any more acceptable.

Both are crimes and we have to condemn them all.

[sfontel]

If we condemn one (Daesh, Taleban etc.), it does not mean that we would accept the other´s crimes against Muslims (or any other people). Crimes of the western coalition don´t make crimes of others any more acceptable.

Both are crimes and we have to condemn them all.

Agreed! And well said!

God bless!

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[Snel]

If we condemn one (Daesh, Taleban etc.), it does not mean that we would accept the other´s crimes against Muslims (or any other people). Crimes of the western coalition don´t make crimes of others any more acceptable.

Both are crimes and we have to condemn them all.

Let me ask you something sister, is it okay to trust the same media that has been viciously fighting Islam for decades? Because where else are we supposed to get information about ISIS (and others for that matter)? I suggest you reevaluate what you think you know about these Islamic groups and make a fair judgment of the situation. Making takfir on muslims is not okay, you are indirectly justifying their blood being spilt. Yes they are muslims, because they say they are muslims, and because you have no evidence to prove otherwise, and it follows that your takfir of them is not justified.

[sister herb]

Do you know what medias I read or listen? And who´s news you then believe? Some puppet channel of Daesh itself? Or maybe Dagens Nyheter?

Do you believe to the original post in this thread that:

Almost 70,000 Muslim clerics have come together to pass a fatwa against global terrorist organizations, including the Taliban, al Qaeda and the militant group that calls itself the Islamic State.

If that´s true, I think that 70 000 clerics know what Daesh really is doing and what it is, far more better than CNN (what I don´t follow) or BBC (what I also don´t follow) or for example Fox (what I never follow).

Do you think that YLE lies a lot? Or Helsingin Sanomat? Do you think they have "viciously fighting Islam for decades"? If yes, they are still much better than Pravda. ;D

[Karl]

The Taliban is not a terrorist organisation. When did that happen?

[Karl]

Condemning terrorism ...what's that going to do? Signing bits of paper and making fatwas ...what is the point of doing that?

[sfontel]

Condemning terrorism ...what's that going to do? Signing bits of paper and making fatwas ...what is the point of doing that?

What that does...I just wonder in what world you live in. Most of the world does not not Islam neither midle east culture....Becouse of that, the only thing they get is Shia kill Sunnis vice versa and infidels so...is this what they need to know?

The world looks at Islam and ask themselfs....How Islam works? Who they listen to? They have a priest they follow...blabla....that can explain and fix this killing?

70 000 get toguether becouse they undrrstand how important this is...and you think is unnecessary?

May I ask, why you question this 70k? Are you and others here in favor of killing inocents in the name of Islam?

Do you want to promote war or peace?

God bless my friend...

[Snel]

Do you know what medias I read or listen? And who´s news you then believe? Some puppet channel of Daesh itself? Or maybe Dagens Nyheter?

Do you believe to the original post in this thread that:

Almost 70,000 Muslim clerics have come together to pass a fatwa against global terrorist organizations, including the Taliban, al Qaeda and the militant group that calls itself the Islamic State.

If that´s true, I think that 70 000 clerics know what Daesh really is doing and what it is, far more better than CNN (what I don´t follow) or BBC (what I also don´t follow) or for example Fox (what I never follow).

Do you think that YLE lies a lot? Or Helsingin Sanomat? Do you think they have "viciously fighting Islam for decades"? If yes, they are still much better than Pravda. ;D

Sure, I'm not going to question that the event has taken place or the number of its attendees. Although I wouldn't bet my money on anything they say. Their words should always be taken with a grain of salt, and especially when it comes to numbers.

The narrative however, that says that ISIS are baby-killing rapists who take Yazidi women as sex slaves is not acceptable, and shouldn't be for any rational human being. If you are a person who oppose this narrative or a person who can thoroughly prove that it is correct, I'm willing to listen. But screaming ISIS are killing muslims, raping yazidis, etc., this is just nonsense.

"Some puppet channel of Daesh itself?" - It wouldn't hurt listening to the other side of the story once and in awhile, now would it? And that's a part of the problem, as it stands ISIS are being the accused, and they are given no voice to defend themselves with. Where is the justice and fairness in that?

In any case, do you have any proof that ISIS are kuffar? I'm asking this since you are making takfir of them and thereby justifying their blood being spilt.

[sister herb]

I have wrote in here before that we should to be more careful who we call a kafir/kuffaar and it´s a matter what doesn´t even belongs to us but to Allah. If I have wrote something like in some my earlier posts, then I have to say that we all are here in the life to learn.

Anyways, we have had here already many threads about this matter during last weeks and I don´t see the point why it would to be necessary to start again and repeat what have wrote already. If you don´t remember those threads, maybe you can re-read them before you start this kind of discussion again. Here are some examples:

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...=paris+attacks

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...=paris+attacks

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...=paris+attacks

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...=paris+attacks

--------------------------------

In general, as I have wrote before, I don´t afraid to condemn attacks against civilians - just same who has made them for any kind of "reasons". Kind of terrorist attackers are all cowards and I don´t see any reason why to glorifying their acts or ideology. The world would to be much better place to live to all of us without them. They only spread hate and fear and benefit only their own leaders.

[Karl]

What that does...I just wonder in what world you live in. Most of the world does not not Islam neither midle east culture....Becouse of that, the only thing they get is Shia kill Sunnis vice versa and infidels so...is this what they need to know?

The world looks at Islam and ask themselfs....How Islam works? Who they listen to? They have a priest they follow...blabla....that can explain and fix this killing?

70 000 get toguether becouse they undrrstand how important this is...and you think is unnecessary?

May I ask, why you question this 70k? Are you and others here in favor of killing inocents in the name of Islam?

Do you want to promote war or peace?

God bless my friend...

Remember "Judgement is mine said the Lord" If you have a problem with your enemies then destroy them. These clerics should pick up a gun and fight their enemies. But who are the enemies? What is the truth? Pakistani "terrorists" attacked Bombay a few years ago but they were found to have had Israeli gear, was Mosad behind it? Is Bagdadi a Mosad agent? There is so much confusion. Appeasing the West by condemning "terrorism" that the West may be supporting?
I do not promote war as I do not profit by it. Peace is also easier on the nerves so I prefer it to war. I don't believe in killing anyone or anything in the name of Islam. Only in the defending of my life as survival is my prime directive. And I would not be conned into going to war as I know that war is a racket. Professional soldiers can sell their souls for it.

[Snel]

I have wrote in here before that we should to be more careful who we call a kafir/kuffaar and it´s a matter what doesn´t even belongs to us but to Allah. If I have wrote something like in some my earlier posts, then I have to say that we all are here in the life to learn. Anyways, we have had here already many threads about this matter during last weeks and I don´t see the point why it would to be necessary to start again and repeat what have wrote already. If you don´t remember those threads, maybe you can re-read them before you start this kind of discussion again. Here are some examples: http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...=paris+attacks http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...=paris+attacks http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...=paris+attacks http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...=paris+attacks -------------------------------- In general, as I have wrote before, I don´t afraid to condemn attacks against civilians - just same who has made them for any kind of "reasons". Kind of terrorist attackers are all cowards and I don´t see any reason why to glorifying their acts or ideology. The world would to be much better place to live to all of us without them. They only spread hate and fear and benefit only their own leaders.

Not to condone any of these acts, I as a muslim am not going to sympathize with either USA or France. These are countries who have killed millions of muslims and they have been continuing this genocide until today. When USA, France, or anyone else attacks the Taliban, Al-Qaida or ISIS we can't say "let them", this is basic stuff in our aquida... They are our brothers and sisters. Do you accept for nothing to be done when a muslim woman end up being raped because she is a terrorist? This is something that has happened during the Iraq war.

[sister herb]

I don´t accept anyone´s acts against innocent civilians, just same if they are racist or islamophopic people in the West, military troops of any countries or "our sisters and brothers" whose use terror to spread they own ideology, what couldn´t be more far from what the prophet Muhammad teached to us like what these some terrorist groups are doing at this time. This is my own opinion and I don´t force you to think alike.

Where I have collect information about kind of groups (like daesh, al-qaeda, taleban etc.) is not only media. During my decades long working for the human rights I have met and talked several victims of those kind of "islamic" groups and what they have told about their destiny with those kind of groups is enough to make me convinced about the real nature of kind of groups. For the people whose want to know the true nature of kind of groups I would like to give an advice: close the internet and go to the real world and meet the real people - they will tell you the truth of what´s happening in this world.

Condemning the acts of daesh/shabaab/al-qaeda/taleban/boko haraam or by what ever name we are calling these people doesn´t mean that the acts of USA/Britain/France etc. would be any more acceptable. They all have made crimes against humanity and as Muslims we all should do as those 70 000 Muslim clerics -condemn them. There are no excuses because of the religion or ethnic origin of the criminals.

Did I now say it enough clear? :hiding:

[Snel]

I don´t accept anyone´s acts against innocent civilians, just same if they are racist or islamophopic people in the West, military troops of any countries or "our sisters and brothers" whose use terror to spread they own ideology, what couldn´t be more far from what the prophet Muhammad teached to us like what these some terrorist groups are doing at this time. This is my own opinion and I don´t force you to think alike. Where I have collect information about kind of groups (like daesh, al-qaeda, taleban etc.) is not only media. During my decades long working for the human rights I have met and talked several victims of those kind of "islamic" groups and what they have told about their destiny with those kind of groups is enough to make me convinced about the real nature of kind of groups. For the people whose want to know the true nature of kind of groups I would like to give an advice: close the internet and go to the real world and meet the real people - they will tell you the truth of what´s happening in this world. Condemning the acts of daesh/shabaab/al-qaeda/taleban/boko haraam or by what ever name we are calling these people doesn´t mean that the acts of USA/Britain/France etc. would be any more acceptable. They all have made crimes against humanity and as Muslims we all should do as those 70 000 Muslim clerics -condemn them. There are no excuses because of the religion or ethnic origin of the criminals. Did I now say it enough clear? :hiding:

No, it's not clear enough. I still don't understand this "us and them" mentality. The prophet Muhammad taught us to advice our brethren and to stop them from doing crime, not to stand by while the polytheists slaughter muslims (men, women and children). To be able to judge a muslim fighter (or a group who hold the same ideas) you have to have reliable information about what's going on and what this person (or group) has been doing. We have a handful of reliable information, the vast majority of what we have is useless because it's simply lies, propaganda or has bad sources/references. This is not about defending everyone who is calling himself a muslim, it is about defending Islam by being just, not by listening to the enemies of Islam when they tell you that so and so group are terrorists and have to be eradicated. You may have met a reliable individual who have told you bad things about a group, fair enough then. But I'd bet you'll never find a reliable person telling you that ISIS are executing children or selling sex slaves. Because that is just nonsense, and the media uses this to scare people to eventually move them into a bloody war. For you as a muslim, it's not acceptable to swallow everything bad the media has to say about these groups. We have to be fair and balanced. I say we hold these people accountable for what they accuse us of, if they have something to say about a muslim they better bring proof, if not then we don't take anything form them. Besides that, I'd love to see what these clerics will bring as practical solutions to remove the western coalition from the middle east and get rid of the hateful and criminal shia militias. It was probably the usual, "we make dua for our brothers and sisters in [insert muslim country that is being slaughtered]", and of course we shouldn't forget the Peaceful protests. Don't get me wrong, dua is good, we should obviously be doing it. But dua alone is not going to bring food on my table (it might, but you know, Allah doesn't always give us what we want by a mere dua). The reason I'm requesting action from them is because 70k clerics (who are organized and supposedly knowledgeable) should be able to do more than just dua, and visiting conferences.

[sister herb]

Of course we have to make work to stop people to slaughter innocent people. That´s why I am against of kind of groups like daesh, boko haram, al-qaeda etc. as well zionists and any kind of attackers.

I worked before and now again with refugees and asylum seekers, whose come from many parts of the world. All of them had to leave their homes because of armed conflicts, civil wars, terrorism or hate between tribes. They were victims of those whose believed that any means are allowed when fight the battle of greed and power. During this work I have met hundreds of victims of terrorism. Those I have met during last year are mostly victims of daesh. No, I don´t need to read sensation newspapers at all to know what´s going on in this world.

Why they left from their homes if daesh didn´t make even part of those horrible acts you can now read from the news? Daesh really didn´t come to their homes to serve peace, or cookies with milk.

What I, an individual person, can do to help? If nothing else, at the least I can warn people not to be blind to propaganda of kind of groups like daesh or shabaab or what ever else.

By the way, good news from Iraq. The Iraqi army has partly liberated the city of Ramadi from daesh terror. What daesh will do the next if it will lost more areas in Syria and Iraq? Propably it will make more attacks in the West. Civilians are always the easist targets, unfortunately.

[Zafran]

Salaam

I find it odd that some people on this forum have no problem in believing in outlandish conspiracy theories like 9/11 was an inside job and al Baghdadi is a mossad agent but fail to admit that there are brutal groups in the mid east that are using religion to oppress and kill people. The religion that a lot of us follow.

[Snel]

By the way, good news from Iraq. The Iraqi army has partly liberated the city of Ramadi from daesh terror. What daesh will do the next if it will lost more areas in Syria and Iraq? Propably it will make more attacks in the West. Civilians are always the easist targets, unfortunately.

Do you consider muslims losing land in Iraq and Syria to be liberation?

[sister herb]

Do you consider muslims losing land in Iraq and Syria to be liberation?

They are Muslims in Iraq, the citizens of Ramadi city are Muslims as well soldiers of the Iraqi army are Muslims. So, Muslims didn´t lost land at all. If they drive daesh away from some city that its original sunni Muslim citizens can live there without fear of some group what use religion as excuse for their acts, this really is a good thing and liberation. Once more, to make this thing clear; no, Muslims didn´t lost land at all.

[Snel]

They are Muslims in Iraq, the citizens of Ramadi city are Muslims as well soldiers of the Iraqi army are Muslims. So, Muslims didn´t lost land at all. If they drive daesh away from some city that its original sunni Muslim citizens can live there without fear of some group what use religion as excuse for their acts, this really is a good thing and liberation. Once more, to make this thing clear; no, Muslims didn´t lost land at all.

The Iraqi army are definitely not muslims, that's because they are either Rafidah or fighting alongside Rafidah against muslims. If ISIS loses land to the Iraqi army then we all will suffer a loss, whether one agrees with ISIS or not.

The Iraqi shia (that now are supposedly ruling Iraq) have been the helpers of the Americans during the Iraq War, now they are engaged in massive oppression against the muslims in the region, killing, torture, you name it. That's not liberation.

[sister herb]

The Iraqi army are definitely not muslims, that's because they are either Rafidah or fighting alongside Rafidah against muslims. If ISIS loses land to the Iraqi army then we all will suffer a loss, whether one agrees with ISIS or not.

I was waiting kind of post from you, brother. You went to your own trap. What you wrote before about daesh:

Yes they are muslims, because they say they are muslims, and because you have no evidence to prove otherwise, and it follows that your takfir of them is not justified.

Now Iraqi army members (no, all of them are not shias) are not Muslims even when they say they are and you can´t prove they aren´t (as only Allah knows kind of things) but daesh members are always Muslims, just same how many times its acts are against Islam?

Did you read from the news that Iraqi army trained the local sunni tribes (sunnis are definitely Muslims, eh?) and they liberated their own city (Ramadi) back from daesh, which conquered it earlier. It was the demand of the local residents (those sunnis whose live in that area) that soldiers whose take power in the city have to be sunnis.

[sister herb]

Daesh is like the band of robbers who goes to some area, expels its owner (or execute him if he doesn´t go away or submit to their demends) and claims it now owns this area. Next daesh declares it has created a nation and it is now the leader of all Muslims. If someone doesn´t accept it, daesh then declares he isn´t Muslim at all and they have right to destroy this one who resists them. They spread they message what is very simple and it is what many young Muslims want to hear: follow these our orders and you will get everything without doing hard work (well, maybe you have to die when we say so but hey, there is always the Paradise you will surely go if we say so).

They will always find new people whose are ready to believe to their lies - many times young, not well educated, whose knowledge about their religion isn´t very good. These people listen their propaganda and watch their videos and believe to them. Their propaganda appeals to the emotions of people with the endless hate of the Westerners or shias or ethnic minorities or women or what ever they decide to hate. Part of them travel to this new wonderland called Daeshland - and some of them also find out all they had read and listened were only lies. Some manage to escape back to their homes but then again new people don´t believe, when they try to warn them not to believe the propaganda of daesh.

Many dictators before them have used the same means to manipulate people. This isn´t nothing new. For example the nazis used similar tactics and nowadays the islamophopics in the West does same.

[Snel]

I was waiting kind of post from you, brother. You went to your own trap. What you wrote before about daesh:



Now Iraqi army members (no, all of them are not shias) are not Muslims even when they say they are and you can´t prove they aren´t (as only Allah knows kind of things) but daesh members are always Muslims, just same how many times its acts are against Islam?

Did you read from the news that Iraqi army trained the local sunni tribes (sunnis are definitely Muslims, eh?) and they liberated their own city (Ramadi) back from daesh, which conquered it earlier. It was the demand of the local residents (those sunnis whose live in that area) that soldiers whose take power in the city have to be sunnis.

Fighting alongside non-muslims against muslims is apostasy in Islam. Didn't you know that? These sunni tribes who are are fighting with the coalition openly admit doing that so what does that make them?

Making takfir based on Islamic principles is not wrong. Making takfir upon sin, or not making takfir at all is. What you're doing is practically distancing yourself from these groups in a way that you would do to them if they were non-muslims supposedly doing oppression. So calling them your brothers and sisters and then watching them being killed makes absolutely no sense. We aren't allowed to stand by while non-muslims slaughter muslims, it's never acceptable.

[Snel]

post was deleted

No sfontel, I support all my muslim brothers and sisters in general. I don't subscribe to any ideology or any group but to what Allah (God) has revealed to the prophet Muhammad. Never did I say otherwise.

Besides, as I've told sister herb before, much of what is being said about ISIS and similar groups are fabrications. And that's why I'm not joining in on accusing them of oppression. That doesn't mean I support oppression.

[sister herb]

Fighting alongside non-muslims against muslims is apostasy in Islam. Didn't you know that? These sunni tribes who are are fighting with the coalition openly admit doing that so what does that make them?

Making takfir based on Islamic principles is not wrong. Making takfir upon sin, or not making takfir at all is. What you're doing is practically distancing yourself from these groups in a way that you would do to them if they were non-muslims supposedly doing oppression. So calling them your brothers and sisters and then watching them being killed makes absolutely no sense. We aren't allowed to stand by while non-muslims slaughter muslims, it's never acceptable.

These sunni troops are fighting against criminal group who conquered their homes, made people as refugees and murdered their loved ones in the name of greed what they called as a religion. Killing innocent civilians, like daesh is doing everywhere they are going, isn´t against what Islam teaches? That´s all. This same group of criminals will next attact against innocent civilians in somewhere else. As Muslims, we all should condemn kind of criminal behaving, not see them as some kind of heroes.

[sister herb]

We aren't allowed to stand by while non-muslims slaughter muslims, it's never acceptable.

Also we can´t accept to just watch and be quiet when Muslims, whose use religion as their excuse to murder other Muslims or any other civilians. This is excatly what daesh is doing. In Iraq, in Syria, in the West. You are right, we just can´t watch it. We have to work against them and spread the true information what beats their lies and propaganda.

Actually, it´s just what I am doing right now.

[sfontel]

No sfontel, I support all my muslim brothers and sisters in general. I don't subscribe to any ideology or any group but to what Allah (God) has revealed to the prophet Muhammad. Never did I say otherwise.

Besides, as I've told sister herb before, much of what is being said about ISIS and similar groups are fabrications. And that's why I'm not joining in on accusing them of oppression. That doesn't mean I support oppression.

I am opose to violence...no matter where It comes from..and I believe should be respect by what they believe...

You can make an argument, you can speak....you can even been annoying but you can not use violence....how hard is that?

God bless..