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hisnameiszzz
12-31-2015, 10:52 AM
Hi all,

I was doing a huge clean up in my bedroom the other day and I found a Bible that was given to me by a then very close friend.

Is it OK to keep it in our house or should I pass it on to a Church or someone else who is Christian? I know it's wrong to pass on a gift but I have no use for it. I've never looked at it and I have no intentions of looking at it. I was given it a few years back by my friend who said it was a special gift and it was all wrapped up and he told me to open it when I got home.

I would give it back to the friend but we went in different directions and are no longer in contact.

Thanks.
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greenhill
12-31-2015, 04:30 PM
I don't know. There's a lot to be said about knowledge. I hear the word 'corrupted' a lot. At times it is like there's nothing useful in the bible at all. Actually there are. Only, we have to use the Quran as reference. Obviously there are some difference but not everything. There's a fair bit of history in it and Jesus was not full of praise for the Jews. We hear the peaceful Jesus a lot, but he didn't mince his words when talking to the rabbis and clergy.

At one point, according to John in chapter 8, Jesus actually called the Jews sons of Satan when they kept saying they were sons of Abraham. That should tell us a lot already about them. Jesus said if they were, they would accept him.

You will find many surprising things that the Christians themselves don't follow although stated very clearly in the book.

:peace:
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Scimitar
12-31-2015, 04:45 PM
If you have no use for it, give it in to your local library.

Scimi
Reply

sister herb
12-31-2015, 04:46 PM
I see it a little complicated if you give this Bible to the Chruch what will use it as spread their message. It feels like you help them then to tell to people the "wrong version" about the true God (Allah).

But if you don´t want to keep it with you, I am not sure is it correct to destroy it. It´s not holy book to us ok, but I don´t know if its ok to burn it or just throw it away for example.

:embarrass
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Muslim Woman
12-31-2015, 04:51 PM
:sl:


u can keep this in your book shelf . When necessary u may show others what holy Bible said about war , slaves , polygamy etc. Muslim and many non Muslims have no idea about these.
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hisnameiszzz
12-31-2015, 07:00 PM
Thanks for your replies.

The library or a charity shop could be an option.

I would not feel comfortable burning it or destroying it. If I gave the friend and Quraan and he did that, I would be very unhappy. I know it's not our holy book, but it its theirs and I personally think it would be wrong. I know you did not suggest it, I am simply stating my view.
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Walter
01-01-2016, 03:36 AM
Dear Hisnameiszzz:

Permit me to share my opinion. I think that you should read it in order to better understand the Qur'an, for the following reasons.

1. Mohammed instructed his followers to believe the prophets of the Old Testament section of the Bible.

2. Mohammed instructed his followers to believe the Gospel in the New Testament section of the Bible.

3. Mohammed instructed his followers to copy and distribute the Bible to all nations of the earth without compensation.

4. The Qur'an contains the answers to questions posed by Christians (Say to them ...). The problem is that the questions are not included in the Qur'an. The questions can be determined, with some certainty, through a knowledge of the Bible and the 20,000 pages of early church history from the time of Christ to the time of Mohammed.

Islamic tradition teaches that the Bible is corrupted beyond redemption. However, the Bibles that were available during the time of Mohammed are available to us today. Therefore, regardless of any assumed copying errors, Mohammed considered the Bible accurate enough for his followers to both believe and distribute.

Best regards.
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Muslim Woman
01-01-2016, 07:09 AM
Originally Posted by Walter
.... regardless of any assumed copying errors, Mohammed considered the Bible accurate enough for his followers to both believe and distribute.

..

source pl.
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greenhill
01-01-2016, 10:32 AM
I personally think that there is no wrong in burning the Quran. (Giving benefit of doubt) there are plenty more ways to disrespect the Quran. It can't be further disrespected thereafter. A noble ending, so to speak.

Of course, there are better ways; giving it away is another option. ;D

:peace:
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hisnameiszzz
01-01-2016, 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by greenhill
I personally think that there is no wrong in burning the Quran. (Giving benefit of doubt) there are plenty more ways to disrespect the Quran. It can't be further disrespected thereafter. A noble ending, so to speak.

Of course, there are better ways; giving it away is another option. ;D

:peace:
Hiya,

I agree about the burning of Holy Books if it is done in a respectful manner. That would be fine by me also.

I think taking it to the library would be my best option though.

Thank you to all for your replies and advice. I do appreciate it.
Reply

Search
01-01-2016, 07:41 PM
^^^
:bism:

:sl:

I know you've already decided what to do. So, I'm not going to suggest you anything on that issue.

However, generally, just for future reference to anyone else looking at the thread, I should say that as Muslims we respect the Bible because despite the corruptions extant in the Bible, and I do believe that the Bible is also enough filled with wisdom that we can take the wisdom and benefit therein.

However, what a person does with a Bible is an individual choice, but I do believe that enabling the Bible to be disposed in a humble and respectful way is a sign of respecting God because Isa (Jesus) alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) did in his alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) own time come with truth as he alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) was sent to the Jewish peoples to correct them in their cherry-picking of the shariah's (divine laws') application on people of different status and also to enable peoples to remember that mercy should also govern application of shariah (divine laws).

:wa:
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Futuwwa
01-01-2016, 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by Walter
1. Mohammed instructed his followers to believe the prophets of the Old Testament section of the Bible.

2. Mohammed instructed his followers to believe the Gospel in the New Testament section of the Bible.

3. Mohammed instructed his followers to copy and distribute the Bible to all nations of the earth without compensation.
No, no and no.

Originally Posted by Walter
Mohammed considered the Bible accurate enough for his followers to both believe and distribute.
No again. Neither he nor the Quran ever referred to the book we call the Bible, or what Christians at the time called the Bible.
Reply

Walter
01-02-2016, 06:46 AM
Dear Muslim Woman:

The Qur’anic references follow.

1. Mohammed instructed his followers to believe the books of the Bible.

O ye who believe! Believe in God and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before. Any who denieth God, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray. (4:136)

What is this scripture that Muslims are instructed to believe, and warned not to deny?

Say: "We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to God do we bow our will." (3:84)

2. Mohammed instructed his followers to copy and distribute the Bible (Book/Guidance) to all nations of the earth without compensation.

We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good: And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous: And Isma'il and Elisha, and Jonas, and Lot: and to all We gave favour above the nations: and to their fathers, and progeny and brethren: We chose them, and we guided them to a straight way.

This is the guidance of God: He giveth that guidance to whom He pleaseth, of His worshippers. If they were to join other gods with Him, all that they did would be vain for them. These were the men to whom We gave the Book, and authority, and prophethood: if these reject them, Behold! We shall entrust their charge to a new people who reject them not.

Those were they who received God's guidance: Copy the guidance they received; Say: "No reward for this do I ask of you: This is no less than a message for the nations." (6:84–90)

3. Copying Errors

Islamic tradition teaches that the original Biblical manuscripts are no longer available. This is true. What we have are copies. Islamic tradition claims that the copying errors have corrupted the copied manuscripts beyond redemption. However, there is no evidence of this claim in the Qur’an. On the contrary, the Qur’an provides evidence that Biblical scriptures were available:

No just estimate of God do they make when they say: "Nothing doth God send down to man" Say: "Who then sent down the Book which Moses brought?—a light and guidance to man: But ye make it into sheets for show, while ye conceal much: therein were ye taught that which ye knew not—neither ye nor your fathers." Say: "God": Then leave them to plunge in vain discourse and trifling. (6: 91)

The Qur’an charges that religious leaders presented the scriptures for show, but concealed much of it. The Qur’an does not deny the availability or accuracy of the scriptures, but condemns the religious leaders’ corrupt behavior. The scriptures that were available during Mohammed’s lifetime, which he encouraged his followers to believe, are available to us today.

The Bible was formally compiled approximately 200 years before the birth of Mohammed, during the reign of Constantine. It was copied and distributed widely, including to the churches in Syria, Ethiopia, and Egypt. The following manuscripts have been found.
  • The Septuagint was translated between 3rd and 1st century BC. It is a Greek version of the Old Testament.
  • The Codex Sinaiticus is dated circa 350 AD. The New Testament section is located in the British Library, the Old Testament sections are located in St Catherine’s Monastery (Sinai, Egypt), Leipzig University Library (Germany), and the National Library of Russia (St Petersburg). The book contains the entire Old Testament (Septuagint version), the New Testament, the Shepherd of Hermas, and the Epistle of Barnabas.
  • The Codex Vaticanus, dated c.350 AD, is located in the Vatican Library. This Bible contains most of the Old Testament (Septuagint version) and the New Testament.
  • The Codex Alexandrinus, dated before 500 AD, is located in the British Library. This book contains most of the Old Testament (Septuagint version) and all of the New Testament, in addition to First and Second Clement.


The discoveries of the Dead Sea Scrolls between 1947 and 1956, which contain several books also contained in the Old Testament and written before 0 AD, confirm the accuracy of the copies that we have today.

Best regards.
Reply

BlueOwl358
01-02-2016, 07:42 AM
Originally Posted by walter
dear muslim woman:

The qur’anic references follow.

1. Mohammed instructed his followers to believe the books of the bible.
o ye who believe! Believe in god and his messenger, and the scripture which he hath sent to his messenger and the scripture which he sent to those before. Any who denieth god, his angels, his books, his messengers, and the day of judgment, hath gone far, far astray. (4:136)

what is this scripture that muslims are instructed to believe, and warned not to deny?
say: "we believe in god, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to abraham, isma'il, isaac, jacob, and the tribes, and in (the books) given to moses, jesus, and the prophets, from their lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to god do we bow our will." (3:84)

2. Mohammed instructed his followers to copy and distribute the bible (book/guidance) to all nations of the earth without compensation.
we gave him isaac and jacob: All guided: And before him, we guided noah, and among his progeny, david, solomon, job, joseph, moses, and aaron: Thus do we reward those who do good: And zakariya and john, and jesus and elias: All in the ranks of the righteous: And isma'il and elisha, and jonas, and lot: And to all we gave favour above the nations: And to their fathers, and progeny and brethren: We chose them, and we guided them to a straight way.

This is the guidance of god: He giveth that guidance to whom he pleaseth, of his worshippers. If they were to join other gods with him, all that they did would be vain for them. These were the men to whom we gave the book, and authority, and prophethood: If these reject them, behold! We shall entrust their charge to a new people who reject them not.

Those were they who received god's guidance: copy the guidance they received; say: "no reward for this do i ask of you: This is no less than a message for the nations." (6:84–90)

All of this is based on the single assumption that the modern Bible can be considered as the successor of these earlier revealed books, which it is not. You are claiming that since the original versions are to believed upon, means by default that the Bible becomes a part of that message, while it is not. Anyone can see that the pattern of writing in the Bible is different from the revelations referred to in the Quran. While Islamic tradition states that these revelations were from the perspective of God and were Divine Revelation, Judeo-Christian Theology states that these are inspired works written by the hands of man, as seen in the texts themselves, which serve as at most, pieces of human history, rather than anything to do with the Divine other than association itself only.

In Islamic tradition on the other hand, and as referred on in these verses, the Quran is the successor of the earlier revelations, containing all the laws and messages required for us in itself, without the need of any other pieces of scripture. It is in the same spirit as the earlier books. This single assumption carries your entire argument. There is no association between the Bible and Divine Revelation, since no Christian can claim that the Bible is Divine Revelation, or that any parts of it are in any way, it is a piece of writing written by man.

Originally Posted by walter
3. Copying errors

islamic tradition teaches that the original biblical manuscripts are no longer available. This is true. What we have are copies. Islamic tradition claims that the copying errors have corrupted the copied manuscripts beyond redemption. However, there is no evidence of this claim in the qur’an. On the contrary, the qur’an provides evidence that biblical scriptures were available:
no just estimate of god do they make when they say: "nothing doth god send down to man" say: "who then sent down the book which moses brought?—a light and guidance to man: but ye make it into sheets for show, while ye conceal much: Therein were ye taught that which ye knew not—neither ye nor your fathers." say: "god": Then leave them to plunge in vain discourse and trifling. (6: 91)

the qur’an charges that religious leaders presented the scriptures for show, but concealed much of it. The qur’an does not deny the availability or accuracy of the scriptures, but condemns the religious leaders’ corrupt behavior. The scriptures that were available during mohammed’s lifetime, which he encouraged his followers to believe, are available to us today.
Your entire research falls short again. There are tons of verses that condemn the changing of the words of scripture. Let me state some of these.

"O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against Allah . Those are the ones for whom Allah does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment." (Quran 5:41)

This verse states that the Priests themselves altered the words by their tongues, changing the meaning of individual concepts, which definitely means the accuracy is not complete.

"Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:77-79)"

This verse again states that the people do not know what is in the revelation, but write from their own opinions, thoughts, and conjectures, and what they write, is not from Allah. This is perfect historical accuracy. Since the Bible was, yes, written by the hands and perspectives of men, such as Mark or Matthew.

"But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for God loveth those who are kind. (The Noble Quran, 5:13)"

Again, you can see the alteration of scripture.

Also, you can refer to the Hadith themselves.

Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!" (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"

Again, again, again.

And for my final statement in this section. I shall present to you proof from the Bible itself stating its own corruption.

"'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? (Jeremiah 8:8)

This does not say the tongues of the scribes, nor the words of the scribes, it says the lying pen of the scribes. Meaning, the scribes have wrongfully written the law. This statement shows how their words were wrong and how their pens changed the law.

Originally Posted by walter
The bible was formally compiled approximately 200 years before the birth of mohammed, during the reign of constantine. It was copied and distributed widely, including to the churches in syria, ethiopia, and egypt. The following manuscripts have been found.
  • the septuagint was translated between 3rd and 1st century bc. It is a greek version of the old testament.
  • the codex sinaiticus is dated circa 350 ad. The new testament section is located in the british library, the old testament sections are located in st catherine’s monastery (sinai, egypt), leipzig university library (germany), and the national library of russia (st petersburg). The book contains the entire old testament (septuagint version), the new testament, the shepherd of hermas, and the epistle of barnabas.
  • the codex vaticanus, dated c.350 ad, is located in the vatican library. This bible contains most of the old testament (septuagint version) and the new testament.
  • the codex alexandrinus, dated before 500 ad, is located in the british library. This book contains most of the old testament (septuagint version) and all of the new testament, in addition to first and second clement.


the discoveries of the dead sea scrolls between 1947 and 1956, which contain several books also contained in the old testament and written before 0 ad, confirm the accuracy of the copies that we have today.

Best regards.
Each version of the Bible has differences, and since any one of them can not be stated to be more accurate than any other, the entire accuracy of the scripture falls downward. Their are books accepted in one version, while not in the other. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls refer to the Book of Enoch, which is not part of the most accepted Biblical canons. There were so many books not accepted during the Rule of Constantine, what happened to them? So that establishes how the Bible has a history of human selection over specific books.

And even though we know that the modern Bible was present during Mohammad's (pbuh) life and the Christian Community, we have no proof that any part of these is divine, since people can tell a lie, regardless of whether only years have passed since a person has gone away. The fact that these books existed in history, does not prove anything, since the Gospel of Jesus denied the versions of the Torah left behind, and he was here in 0 CE. Proof that these books were present in these time periods, does not affect how changed they are.

---

Sorry for derailing the thread, you may continue. I feel you should just give it away, since burning it would be a waste of paper and someone's money.
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Muslim Woman
01-02-2016, 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by sfontel
...

Does Mohammad says in the Quran ....



!

holy Quran is from God Almighty . Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him did not say anything in Quran.

And God Almighty Knows Best.


Pl. no more comment on it in this thread . Start a new thread if u want .
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greenhill
01-02-2016, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by sfontel
....
They used their written traditions(Tamuld) to over writte the word of God...equal to what what Hadiths does to Quran....

Does Mohammad says in the Quran that nothing was to be written nor document other then the Quran?

Why Muslims around the world use the Hadiths then? Is that not a direct disobedience? Or there are verses to say to use too?

Talmud is not the same as the hadeeth. Not even comparable. Talmud was adopted from the times they were oppressed, not following the ways taught to them. A purposeful alteration of Divine Laws. The hadeeth on the other hand are recorded sayings, practice and the ways of the prophet s.a.w. Of course there are some that have been created. Hence the scholars work hard to differentiate authenticity. We have to be a little bit more alert when dealing with hadeeth because we never observed first hand the ways of the prophet but the fact he existed means he showed a mannerism that could be observed by people. Hence recorded in hadeeth.

On the other point, it matters not what the Prophet would say on documentation of the scriptures. The Bible already existed. As did the Jewish scriptures.

Using the hadeeth (in this case we can call it sunnah) is basically how a muslim should live. The Quran is the guide. The ingredients to things, so to speak. It hints that you should cook, if not tell you directly. How do you do it? Observe the prophet and you'll be guided. The Quran does not give instruction to everything. It does not even teach you how to pray. How would one learn if it is just by the Quran. Likewise, the hadeeth cannot stand by itself either.

Hope that clears up some misconceptions.


:peace:
Reply

Futuwwa
01-02-2016, 07:20 PM
Except for the fact that the Quran never refers to any other book that's actually out there, in print, as a book. The word "qitab" just refers to a body of revelation, that's how the Quran refers to itself too, even though at the time of revelation there was not a single quran in existence in book form.

The Quran uses the words "taurat" and "injil", i.e. Torah and Gospel, to refer to the bodies of revelation given to Moses and Jesus. The notion that they would be references to the Old Testament and the New Testament is absurd, it flies even in the face of how the terms Torah and Gospel are used in the Bible.
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InToTheRain
01-02-2016, 08:58 PM
^ True. Gibrael(AS) hugged Mohamamd(SAW) and that's how the Qur'an was transferred; then repeated "Iqra Bismi Rabikal Lazi Khalaq..." and It is through the Heart/Soul that it was transferred.

Even if a perfect copy of the Message of Isa(AS) was found or Musa(AS); it would not matter as it has all been abrogated. None of these are acceptable paths to Allah Most High anymore; only the path of Mohammad(SAW) remains acceptable.

It's not the books/pdfs on internet which has kept the Qur'an pure so much so we do not dispute what should be contained within it. It's the Hufaz who have preserved it. If we were relying on books to preserve it would have been corrupted along time ago.
Reply

najimuddin
01-02-2016, 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by Walter

1. Mohammed instructed his followers to believe the books of the Bible.

...

What is this scripture that Muslims are instructed to believe, and warned not to deny?

Say: "We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to God do we bow our will." (3:84)
Salaam Walter,

I find your concern for humanity to be admirable. Indeed, I also find it distressing when people treat each other unjustly.

In light of this, I know you weren’t addressing me in your post. However, your statements have broad implications that affects me as well. For reference, interested readers may click on the following purple link to access the original post: Post #13

The above quote and emphasis given in bold is yours. Hereunder is my response to your premise based on the Islamic tradition which, I must mention emphatically, includes the Qur’an.

1. The Torah was revealed to Musa :as:.

2. The Injeel was revealed to Isa :as: - also known as Jesus.

3. Even according to Christian theology, the New Testament was not revealed to Jesus.

4. The Bible contains the Torah, and the not revealed to Jesus New Testament.

5. The Bible, as a book, was not revealed to any Prophet.

Therefore, the Qur’an isn’t referring to either the Bible or New Testament, as none of them were revealed to Jesus, or any Prophet. Based on the above, your foundational premise has been shown to be false – inconsistent with the Islamic tradition (i.e. Qur’an, ahadith, etc.).

I invite you and any interested reader to register for the following online course.

Uloom Al-Hadith with Shaykh Dr. Mateen Khan (click on underlined and green highlighted link to the left for more information)

It will provide students with an understanding of the comprehensive and robust nature of the Islamic tradition, :ia:

It begins this month.
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popsthebuilder
01-03-2016, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
I see it a little complicated if you give this Bible to the Chruch what will use it as spread their message. It feels like you help them then to tell to people the "wrong version" about the true God (Allah).

But if you don´t want to keep it with you, I am not sure is it correct to destroy it. It´s not holy book to us ok, but I don´t know if its ok to burn it or just throw it away for example.

:embarrass
Wow. I understand that you don't consider it a holy book. This is obviously due to the direction of those who praise with there mouths alone. The book itself is the word of God as is the Qur'an. Just because certain people have been lead astray as a result of manipulation of interpretation of the Bible by men of greed doesn't mean the book isn't holy and should be burned.

Through unbiased reading and comprehension of the bible you will see that it is exceedingly similar to the Qur'an in many ways.

Peace
Reply

popsthebuilder
01-03-2016, 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by BlueOwl358

All of this is based on the single assumption that the modern Bible can be considered as the successor of these earlier revealed books, which it is not. You are claiming that since the original versions are to believed upon, means by default that the Bible becomes a part of that message, while it is not. Anyone can see that the pattern of writing in the Bible is different from the revelations referred to in the Quran. While Islamic tradition states that these revelations were from the perspective of God and were Divine Revelation, Judeo-Christian Theology states that these are inspired works written by the hands of man, as seen in the texts themselves, which serve as at most, pieces of human history, rather than anything to do with the Divine other than association itself only.

In Islamic tradition on the other hand, and as referred on in these verses, the Quran is the successor of the earlier revelations, containing all the laws and messages required for us in itself, without the need of any other pieces of scripture. It is in the same spirit as the earlier books. This single assumption carries your entire argument. There is no association between the Bible and Divine Revelation, since no Christian can claim that the Bible is Divine Revelation, or that any parts of it are in any way, it is a piece of writing written by man.



Your entire research falls short again. There are tons of verses that condemn the changing of the words of scripture. Let me state some of these.

"O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you. They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against Allah . Those are the ones for whom Allah does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment." (Quran 5:41)

This verse states that the Priests themselves altered the words by their tongues, changing the meaning of individual concepts, which definitely means the accuracy is not complete.

"Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:77-79)"

This verse again states that the people do not know what is in the revelation, but write from their own opinions, thoughts, and conjectures, and what they write, is not from Allah. This is perfect historical accuracy. Since the Bible was, yes, written by the hands and perspectives of men, such as Mark or Matthew.

"But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for God loveth those who are kind. (The Noble Quran, 5:13)"

Again, you can see the alteration of scripture.

Also, you can refer to the Hadith themselves.

Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!" (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"

Again, again, again.

And for my final statement in this section. I shall present to you proof from the Bible itself stating its own corruption.

"'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? (Jeremiah 8:8)

This does not say the tongues of the scribes, nor the words of the scribes, it says the lying pen of the scribes. Meaning, the scribes have wrongfully written the law. This statement shows how their words were wrong and how their pens changed the law.



Each version of the Bible has differences, and since any one of them can not be stated to be more accurate than any other, the entire accuracy of the scripture falls downward. Their are books accepted in one version, while not in the other. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls refer to the Book of Enoch, which is not part of the most accepted Biblical canons. There were so many books not accepted during the Rule of Constantine, what happened to them? So that establishes how the Bible has a history of human selection over specific books.

And even though we know that the modern Bible was present during Mohammad's (pbuh) life and the Christian Community, we have no proof that any part of these is divine, since people can tell a lie, regardless of whether only years have passed since a person has gone away. The fact that these books existed in history, does not prove anything, since the Gospel of Jesus denied the versions of the Torah left behind, and he was here in 0 CE. Proof that these books were present in these time periods, does not affect how changed they are.

---

Sorry for derailing the thread, you may continue. I feel you should just give it away, since burning it would be a waste of paper and someone's money.
You base your conclusion on the acts of man.

Not coincidentally,

"Christians" base their knowledge, or rather, their opinion on the Qur'an on the acts of men.

Do you see the problem yet?

Pride is a tool that helps to produce works in he opposite direction.

Peace
Reply

sister herb
01-03-2016, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by popsthebuilder
Through unbiased reading and comprehension of the bible you will see that it is exceedingly similar to the Qur'an in many ways.

Peace
I know something about the Bible already. I am originally from the Christian background but then I found Islam. :statisfie

We were reading the Bible at the school many times but no, of my mind the Bible and the Quran aren´t similar at all.
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hisnameiszzz
01-03-2016, 08:32 PM
Chill out peeps. I was only asking what I should do with the Bible.

I used to really enjoy my friendship with that friend. We used to spend hours on the telephone discussing similarities and differences between our faiths. He even took me to a Church once (wrong day as the priest doing the Sunday sermon was very Islamophobic and he and his friends apologised to me for any offence caused and that their usual pastor/priest was not like this).

He was meant to be coming to my local Mosque but he is now in a relationship. He is too busy now and I really miss all the chats we used to have. I've tried to re-connect with him but it's not the same and he always has something else he has to do. Who knows maybe one day we will become friends again.

Thanks peeps.
Reply

popsthebuilder
01-03-2016, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
I know something about the Bible already. I am originally from the Christian background but then I found Islam. :statisfie

We were reading the Bible at the school many times but no, of my mind the Bible and the Quran aren´t similar at all.
I'm sorry. I generally read the New Covenant, Torah, Quaran, and other significant inspired words of GOD, and honestly find many fundamentally similar, if not identical things including moral code, the reasons there of, the discernment of GOD, man under God, and sinner or sin, and the duty we have as faithful under the direction of GOD.

Please give an example of a differentiating point, that we might discuss. Please do not mention the son of God as I understand that to be the one who was without fault or blemish, and perhaps we can leave that at that for now.

With humility, peace
Reply

sister herb
01-03-2016, 09:35 PM
The most I meant the style how those books tell about the God. Anyways, maybe I just see the Quran differently because it is the holy book to me.

But I was thinking a while the idea of holiness of some book. At the school or confirmation lessons the teacher or the priest never handled the Bible by the similar way like we handle the Quran. The teacher might put the Bible to the floor with no problems (we wouldn´t never put the Quran to the dirty floor or some other unclean places). Teacher never said that women who have menstruration shouldn ´t touch the Bible (you might know Muslim sister never touch the Quran while she has hers periods). The teacher might even take the Bible (in his bag) with him when he went to the toilet.

:facepalm:

If the book itself is "holy", why to disrespect it by this way? Or is the book just only a book, pile of paper and the message is holy?
Reply

popsthebuilder
01-03-2016, 09:40 PM
Originally Posted by hisnameiszzz
Chill out peeps. I was only asking what I should do with the Bible.

I used to really enjoy my friendship with that friend. We used to spend hours on the telephone discussing similarities and differences between our faiths. He even took me to a Church once (wrong day as the priest doing the Sunday sermon was very Islamophobic and he and his friends apologised to me for any offence caused and that their usual pastor/priest was not like this).

He was meant to be coming to my local Mosque but he is now in a relationship. He is too busy now and I really miss all the chats we used to have. I've tried to re-connect with him but it's not the same and he always has something else he has to do. Who knows maybe one day we will become friends again.

Thanks peeps.
I was just suggesting you read it without bias. Didn't mean to offend or startle or anything.

The relevant thing is to adhere to what you know is right. Also, not taking in knowledge because of some misplaced fear is not beneficial to anyone. I believe all core scripture of monotheistic peaceful religions under the one creator God are beneficial towards direction and adherence thereof. That may not be the case, but to insist it indeed is not without honest inquiry, based on the reports of man, and not the Qur'an just seems like selling yourself short, and as such, your direction or potential under God, to do his will.

Does it not say in the Qur'an that you are to discern between the Christians? How would one go about that without being able to know if they follow their book and teachings or not?

Have to stop myself as technically the Qur'an could lead you rightly, but only without pride, and with mercy. By the will of GOD.

Still though, generally one would be much more qualified to discern those rightly guided as opposed to those who are hypocritical if you understood there perspective.

The thing is people think that Christ is a closed scenario pertaining to Jesus only, and don't realise that it is through his teachings and example and freedom from the bindings of sin and greed that all are to come together by God's will for the sake of man.

Kind of ranting perhaps,

Humbly, peace
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