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Peaceforall
01-12-2016, 04:38 PM
There is some controversy between different sects of Muslims on this topic. I will be discussing the topic below. Usually, Muslims quote the verse on Khatamun Nabiyeen and say that means that prophet hood has ended: "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah has full knowledge of all things. (33:41)
However closer anaylsis on this verse leads to the conclusion that the end of prophet is not meant here. What is meant is that the Holy Prophet (sa) is the best of all prophets. First of all the word used is Khatam which means he sealed or he stamped.
The word khatam itself is used to show the rank of someone and their superiority. This word is known as “Ism Ala”. Ism Alah of the word khatam would basically mean the tool with which a mark is stamped or a seal. Now let us see how the word khatam has been used for other people and what it means when referring to a rank of someone. Here are some examples:
Abu Tammam was a poet and was called Khatamush Shu’ara, meaning the chief of the poets. He is from the years 188-231 A.H, yet no Muslim believes he was the last of poets (Wafiyat-ul-Ayan, Volume 1)

Abu Al-Tayyib was also called khatamush shu’ara (Muqaddimah Diwan al-Mutanabbi, Page 10)

Hazrat Alira is called khatam-ul-Auliya, the chief of the friends of Allah, meaning the chief of the saints (Tafsir saifi, Surah Al Ahzab)

Imam Suyuti was called Khatam-ul-Muhaddithin, the cheif of the specialists in Ahadith (Title page of Tafsi Itqan)

Hazrat Shah Waliyyullah Dehlavi is also called Khatam-ul-Muhaddithin(Ujalah Nafiah By Shah Abdul Aziz)

Every human is called khatam-ul-Mukhulqat al-Jismaniyyah meaning the chief of all creatures (Tafsir Kabir, Volume 6, Page 22)

Ibn Hajar-al-Asqalani was called Khatam-ul-Huffaz, the chief of the memorizers (Title page of Tabaqat-ul-Mudallisin)

Hazrat Isaas was called Khatam-ul-Asfiya-ul-A’immah, the chief of the chosen leaders (Baqiyyatul-Mutaqaddimin, Page 184)
So Khatam is used as praise and it makes sense according to the context. The verse was revealed because the Meccans accused that look the Holy Prophet (sa) has no heir to take his place after he has passed away. In refutation to this allegation Allah revealed this verse that Muhammad (sa) may not have any heir, but he is the best of all the prophets. Now if the meaning was said to be the last prophet how is that something to praise about. Being the last of something is not praiseworthy and here Allah is praising the Holy Prophet (sa).
Also the Holy Qur'an states: "And whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger of His shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings, namely, the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And excellent companions are these." (4:70)
One of the spiritual status that Muslim can earn is prophethood as shown in this verse, meaning prophets can still come.
Also it is prophecized that the second coming of Hadhrat Isa (as) in many hadith. Therefore, even the Holy Prophet (sa) prophecized more prophets.
Now it can't be the literal return of Hadhrat Isa (as) for he has died according to the Holy Qur'an:
When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ. (3:56)
LAso if we look at history a similiar prophecy was made regarding Hadhrat Elija (as) . It was prophecized that Hadhrat Elija (as) will come before the coming of the Messiah, Hadhrat Isa (as). However he didn't come literally rather John the Baptist (or Hadhrat Yahya (as) ) came as the second coming. Likewise the same meaning is applied here.
They are many other verses and points that prove prophethood, but I will like that my brothers ponder on this point.
Will they not, then, meditate upon the Qur’an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much disagreement (4:83).
Remember the Holy Qur'an can't have any contradictions for it is from Allah.
Jazak'Allah
Wassalam.


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Insaanah
01-12-2016, 07:02 PM
There is no controversy aming the Muslims about finality of Prophethood. As Muslims we do not believe that Isa alyhissalaam died nor that he is buried in India. Qadiyanis do have this erroneous belief however.
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Insaanah
01-12-2016, 07:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
However closer anaylsis on this verse leads to the conclusion that the end of prophet is not meant here. What is meant is that the Holy Prophet (sa) is the best of all prophets. First of all the word used is Khatam which means he sealed or he stamped.
The word khatam itself is used to show the rank of someone and their superiority. This word is known as “Ism Ala”. Ism Alah of the word khatam would basically mean the tool with which a mark is stamped or a seal. Now let us see how the word khatam has been used for other people
How it has been used for other people is not how one determines the meaning in the Qur'an. This is a non-argument.

format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
o Khatam is used as praise and it makes sense according to the context.
Nice try, but it does not mean best nor praise. We are not going to take peaceforall as our mufassir of the Qur'an. We take Allah's words, we take the Prophet's (sallalahu alayhi wa sallam) explanation as recorded in the hadeeth, then we look at the righteous sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them), their students, and the early righteous scholars/mufassireen.

Nor do we take interpretation of Qur'an from non-Muslims.

format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
Also the Holy Qur'an states: "And whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger of His shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings, namely, the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And excellent companions are these." (4:70)
One of the spiritual status that Muslim can earn is prophethood as shown in this verse, meaning prophets can still come.
I am not sure which translation you are using for 4:69, but it is incorrect. The Arabic word used is ma'a, which means with. The translators have translated this as with, or in the company of. It does not mean that we will become prophets - we seek Allah's refuge from such twisting of His words.

format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
Now it can't be the literal return of Hadhrat Isa (as) for he has died according to the Holy Qur'an:
When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ. (3:56)
No, this refers to his second coming. Clearly Allah says he wasn't killed or crucified, but that Allah took him up to himself.

You believe he died and was buried in Indian Kashmir, correct?

format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
Will they not, then, meditate upon the Qur’an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much disagreement (4:83).
Remember the Holy Qur'an can't have any contradictions for it is from Allah.
Absolutely. And it doesn't as I have shown. It is Qadiyanis (and/or their false prophet) who try to twist the meanings of Allah's words.

Incidentally, do you know what the books your prophet wrote, say about Jesus (peace be on him), what your false prophet has said about Isa alyhissalaam?

Christ had the habit of calling names and abusing. He got furious at petty things; he was a prey to his emotions. And often he used to tell a lie. (Roohani Khazain: V: 11, P: 289)

It is a matter of shame that he stole the teachings of the mountain that is the crux of the Bible, from the Jews’ Book, Talmud. After this plagiarism he revealed them as his own teachings. (Roohani Khazain: V: 11, P: 290)

The Christians have written much about Christ’s miracles, but the fact is that he had none. And when he abused people who were demanding miracles, the pious people broke all connections with him. (Roohani Khazain: V: 11, P: 290)

Christ belonged to a very 'virtuous' family. Three of his maternal and paternal grandmothers were adulterers and prostitutes. He had the blood of these women in his veins, but perhaps this was also an eternal requirement. (Roohani Khazain: V: 11, P: 291)

Taking wine has caused much loss to the Europeans. Perhaps they have the justification that Christ himself took wine; he took wine because of some disease or he was a habitual drinker as the case may be. (Roohani Khazain: V: 19, P: 71)

Once a friend of mine suggested that opium is good for diabetics. So it is not bad to use it for the sake of treatment. I replied to him, “Thank you for your concern, but if I develop the habit of taking opium, I fear people will laugh and say that the first Christ was a drunkard and the second one an opium-eater”. (Roohani Khazain: V: 19, P: 434-435)

God sent His Promised Christ (Masseah–e–Maud) towards the Ummah, who is superior to the first Christ in all respects. He named the second Christ as Ghulam Ahmed. (Roohani Khazain: V: 18, P 233)


No decent person can think such things, let alone write them in so called scriptures!
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greenhill
01-13-2016, 01:37 AM
Welcome to the forum.

Wishing you a great stay.

:peace:
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IARLG
01-13-2016, 02:17 AM
And who believe in (the Quran and the Sunnah) which has been sent down (revealed) to you (Muhammad Peace be upon him ) and in [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.] which were sent down before you and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter. (Resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds, Paradise and Hell, etc.). (Qur'an 2:4)

Just by looking at (Qur'an 2:4) we can see that Muhammad (SAW) is the Final Messenger to Mankind. We believe in the Quran and what was sent down before. Notice that we are not told to believe in another book brought by another Messenger in the future.

So yes Prophethood has already ended.
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Linkdeutscher
01-13-2016, 09:18 PM
OP is a Qadiani Mirzai (who incorrectly call themselves Ahmadis) kafir!

They believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad from Qadiani was Imam Mahdi, the Messiah, a prophet and a Rasool!

And BTW OP, the easiest refutation to the nonsense you have written is the ijma' of the ummah. The salaf understood what the verse means infinitely better than juhaal like you who don't even know a word of Arabic!
Reply

Linkdeutscher
01-13-2016, 09:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
There is some controversy between different sects of Muslims on this topic. I will be discussing the topic below. Usually, Muslims quote the verse on Khatamun Nabiyeen and say that means that prophet hood has ended: "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah has full knowledge of all things. (33:41)
However closer anaylsis on this verse leads to the conclusion that the end of prophet is not meant here. What is meant is that the Holy Prophet (sa) is the best of all prophets. First of all the word used is Khatam which means he sealed or he stamped.
The word khatam itself is used to show the rank of someone and their superiority. This word is known as “Ism Ala”. Ism Alah of the word khatam would basically mean the tool with which a mark is stamped or a seal. Now let us see how the word khatam has been used for other people and what it means when referring to a rank of someone. Here are some examples:
Abu Tammam was a poet and was called Khatamush Shu’ara, meaning the chief of the poets. He is from the years 188-231 A.H, yet no Muslim believes he was the last of poets (Wafiyat-ul-Ayan, Volume 1)

Abu Al-Tayyib was also called khatamush shu’ara (Muqaddimah Diwan al-Mutanabbi, Page 10)

Hazrat Alira is called khatam-ul-Auliya, the chief of the friends of Allah, meaning the chief of the saints (Tafsir saifi, Surah Al Ahzab)

Imam Suyuti was called Khatam-ul-Muhaddithin, the cheif of the specialists in Ahadith (Title page of Tafsi Itqan)

Hazrat Shah Waliyyullah Dehlavi is also called Khatam-ul-Muhaddithin(Ujalah Nafiah By Shah Abdul Aziz)

Every human is called khatam-ul-Mukhulqat al-Jismaniyyah meaning the chief of all creatures (Tafsir Kabir, Volume 6, Page 22)

Ibn Hajar-al-Asqalani was called Khatam-ul-Huffaz, the chief of the memorizers (Title page of Tabaqat-ul-Mudallisin)

Hazrat Isaas was called Khatam-ul-Asfiya-ul-A’immah, the chief of the chosen leaders (Baqiyyatul-Mutaqaddimin, Page 184)
So Khatam is used as praise and it makes sense according to the context. The verse was revealed because the Meccans accused that look the Holy Prophet (sa) has no heir to take his place after he has passed away. In refutation to this allegation Allah revealed this verse that Muhammad (sa) may not have any heir, but he is the best of all the prophets. Now if the meaning was said to be the last prophet how is that something to praise about. Being the last of something is not praiseworthy and here Allah is praising the Holy Prophet (sa).
Also the Holy Qur'an states: "And whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger of His shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings, namely, the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And excellent companions are these." (4:70)
One of the spiritual status that Muslim can earn is prophethood as shown in this verse, meaning prophets can still come.
Also it is prophecized that the second coming of Hadhrat Isa (as) in many hadith. Therefore, even the Holy Prophet (sa) prophecized more prophets.
Now it can't be the literal return of Hadhrat Isa (as) for he has died according to the Holy Qur'an:
When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ. (3:56)
LAso if we look at history a similiar prophecy was made regarding Hadhrat Elija (as) . It was prophecized that Hadhrat Elija (as) will come before the coming of the Messiah, Hadhrat Isa (as). However he didn't come literally rather John the Baptist (or Hadhrat Yahya (as) ) came as the second coming. Likewise the same meaning is applied here.
They are many other verses and points that prove prophethood, but I will like that my brothers ponder on this point.
Will they not, then, meditate upon the Qur’an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much disagreement (4:83).
Remember the Holy Qur'an can't have any contradictions for it is from Allah.
Jazak'Allah
Wassalam.

It doesn't matter what these people meant by the word.

What did Mirza Ghulam Ahmad understand this word to mean?

“A girl was born with me whose name was Jannat. First she came out of womb. I followed her. After me no girl or boy was born to my parents and I was ‘Khatim Aulad’ (last in the chain of children)”
(Taryaqal quloob, p.157; Roohani Khazain, v.15 p.479)

See, even Ghulam Ahmad disagrees with you!
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Muhaba
01-13-2016, 09:46 PM
There are hadith that explain the meaning of that verse and clearly show there is no Prophet or Messenger after Muhammad :saws1: . Furthermore previous scriptures and Prophets would foretell the coming of another Prophet after them but neither the Quran nor the Prophet Muhammad :saws1: do so. Instead Prophet Muhammad :saws1: said there was no Prophet after him.
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Linkdeutscher
01-13-2016, 10:18 PM
Surah Baqarah destroying Qadianism with one verse:

والذين يؤمنون بما أنزل إليك وما أنزل من قبلك وبالآخرة هم يوقنون


And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith].

(2:4)

NO MENTION OF SOMETHING BEING REVEALED AFTER HIM (Muhammad :saws:)!

End of the story.
Reply

Peaceforall
01-13-2016, 11:51 PM
Assalamoalaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
First of all you have no right to judge who is a Muslim and who is not. this is Allah's decision and no one else is the Judge. The Holy Qur'an says:
Say: ‘Do you dispute with us concerning Allah, while He is our Lord and your Lord? And for us are our works, and for you your works; and to Him alone we are sincerely devoted. (2:140)
You said how it has been used for other people doesn't matter. this is a baseless claim. The way we study arabic is through arabic lexicons and poetry, and arabic usuage at that time. To see how the word was used is exactly what we have to do if we want to understand the language.
You said it isn't used for praise, but than prove that it has not been used for praise. It is so obvious rom the context that Allah is praisning the Holy Prophet (sa) as a refutation of the allegation raised by the Meccans. Your own scholars agree with this.
Ḥ a ḍrat Maulawī Mu ḥammad Q āsim N ānotvī (A.H. 1248—A.H. 1297), a learned scholar of the recent past and the founder of the Deoband University, known far and wide, in the Indo-Pakistan sub-continent, as a center of oriental science, says: “The idea of the common people is that the Prophet of All āh (peace of All āh be on him and His blessings) is the Kh ātam, in the sense, that Forty Gems of Beauty—37 his period is at the end of that of rest of the prophets. But, to men of understanding it is clear that there is no superiority merely in precedence or in subsequence, in terms of period of time, as a mark of praise. How can then the verse “But He is the Messenger of All āh and the Seal of the Prophets” [33[AlAḥ z āb]:41] be appropriate in this sense? If, by way of supposition, a prophet were to appear after the Prophet of All āh (peace of All āh be on him and His blessings) it will not be a breach of the Mu ḥammadī Kh ātamiyyat.” (Ta ḥ zīrun-N ās, page 3 and p. 28)

Also they are countless other scholars that agree with this:
(1) The chief of mystics Ḥ a ḍrat Shaikh Akbar Mu ḥayyuddīn Ibni ‘Arabī (A.H. 560 to A.H. 638) says: “The prophethood that ceased with the coming of the Prophet of All āh—peace of All āh and His mercy be on him—is the law-bearing prophethood.” (al-Futūḥāt al-Makkiyyah, Vol. II, p. 3) (2) Ḥ a ḍrat Im ām Abdul-Wahhab Shīrā nī, a reputed Im ām (died A.H. 976) observes: “Prophethood as such did not cease with the advent of the Prophet of All āh (peace of All āh be on him and His blessings) but only the law- Forty Gems of Beauty—36 bearing prophethood came to a close.” (AlYaw ā qīt wal-Jaw āhir, Vol. I, p. 22) (3) Ḥ a ḍrat Shaikh Aḥmad Sirhindī, Mujaddid Alf-Th ā nī, (died A.H. 1034), a leading and reputed reformer of Isl ām says: “It is in no way repugnant to the sense of Kh ātaman-Nabiyyīn that the followers of the Prophet of All āh should attain to the excellences of prophethood, by virtue of their allegiance to him, as their heritage. So be not of the doubters.” (Makt ū b āt-i Aḥmadiyyah, Vol. I, letter No. 271) (4) Ḥ a ḍrat Shah Waliyyull āh Mu ḥaddath Dehlawi, Mujaddid of the 12th century Hijrah (born A.H. 1114, died A.H. 1176), widely known for his profound learning and whose exalted rank is acknowledged on all hands, says: “That the prophethood ended with the Holy Prophet (peace be on him and blessings of All āh) means that no prophet shall be raised after him bearing a new law.” (Tafhīm āt-iIl āhiyyah, Tafhīm 53)
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 12:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
Assalamoalaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
First of all you have no right to judge who is a Muslim and who is not. this is Allah's decision and no one else is the Judge. The Holy Qur'an says:
Say: ‘Do you dispute with us concerning Allah, while He is our Lord and your Lord? And for us are our works, and for you your works; and to Him alone we are sincerely devoted. (2:140)
You said how it has been used for other people doesn't matter. this is a baseless claim. The way we study arabic is through arabic lexicons and poetry, and arabic usuage at that time. To see how the word was used is exactly what we have to do if we want to understand the language.
You said it isn't used for praise, but than prove that it has not been used for praise. It is so obvious rom the context that Allah is praisning the Holy Prophet (sa) as a refutation of the allegation raised by the Meccans. Your own scholars agree with this.
Ḥ a ḍrat Maulawī Mu ḥammad Q āsim N ānotvī (A.H. 1248—A.H. 1297), a learned scholar of the recent past and the founder of the Deoband University, known far and wide, in the Indo-Pakistan sub-continent, as a center of oriental science, says: “The idea of the common people is that the Prophet of All āh (peace of All āh be on him and His blessings) is the Kh ātam, in the sense, that Forty Gems of Beauty—37 his period is at the end of that of rest of the prophets. But, to men of understanding it is clear that there is no superiority merely in precedence or in subsequence, in terms of period of time, as a mark of praise. How can then the verse “But He is the Messenger of All āh and the Seal of the Prophets” [33[AlAḥ z āb]:41] be appropriate in this sense? If, by way of supposition, a prophet were to appear after the Prophet of All āh (peace of All āh be on him and His blessings) it will not be a breach of the Mu ḥammadī Kh ātamiyyat.” (Ta ḥ zīrun-N ās, page 3 and p. 28)

Also they are countless other scholars that agree with this:
(1) The chief of mystics Ḥ a ḍrat Shaikh Akbar Mu ḥayyuddīn Ibni ‘Arabī (A.H. 560 to A.H. 638) says: “The prophethood that ceased with the coming of the Prophet of All āh—peace of All āh and His mercy be on him—is the law-bearing prophethood.” (al-Futūḥāt al-Makkiyyah, Vol. II, p. 3) (2) Ḥ a ḍrat Im ām Abdul-Wahhab Shīrā nī, a reputed Im ām (died A.H. 976) observes: “Prophethood as such did not cease with the advent of the Prophet of All āh (peace of All āh be on him and His blessings) but only the law- Forty Gems of Beauty—36 bearing prophethood came to a close.” (AlYaw ā qīt wal-Jaw āhir, Vol. I, p. 22) (3) Ḥ a ḍrat Shaikh Aḥmad Sirhindī, Mujaddid Alf-Th ā nī, (died A.H. 1034), a leading and reputed reformer of Isl ām says: “It is in no way repugnant to the sense of Kh ātaman-Nabiyyīn that the followers of the Prophet of All āh should attain to the excellences of prophethood, by virtue of their allegiance to him, as their heritage. So be not of the doubters.” (Makt ū b āt-i Aḥmadiyyah, Vol. I, letter No. 271) (4) Ḥ a ḍrat Shah Waliyyull āh Mu ḥaddath Dehlawi, Mujaddid of the 12th century Hijrah (born A.H. 1114, died A.H. 1176), widely known for his profound learning and whose exalted rank is acknowledged on all hands, says: “That the prophethood ended with the Holy Prophet (peace be on him and blessings of All āh) means that no prophet shall be raised after him bearing a new law.” (Tafhīm āt-iIl āhiyyah, Tafhīm 53)
You are such an ignorant person I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.

You said

First of all you have no right to judge who is a Muslim and who is not. this is Allah's decision and no one else is the Judge. The Holy Qur'an says:
Then why don't you go and condemn your own false prophet, who made takfeer of those who didn't believe in him, even if they hadn't heard of him.

What a jahil you are, and a completely clueless one at that.

Just like every other Qadiani I know, absolutely clueless about your own false cult.
Reply

Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 12:16 AM
This is a reply to the brother who just post verse (2:4). First of all within what is revealed, that is the Holy Qur'an it is mentioned a prophet will come and when he does we have to accept him. For example the prophecy of the second coming of Hadhrat Isa(as). Also the Holy Qur'an states, "O children of Adam! if Messengers come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing My Signs unto you, then whoso shall fear God and do good deeds, on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve.; (7:36).
The In addition, Allāh, the Exalted, uses the f‘ailmudhāri‘ formation in the above verse while addressing thechildren of Adam which means that this still applies toeveryone today and will be applicable to everyone until the LastDay.
Now on the word Al- Akhir. First of all it is not the last day that is mentioned for the word youm is no where mentioned in the verse. The word “al-Akhir” (what is yet to come” means either “the message or revelation which is to follow” or “the Last Abode”, i.e. the next life. the first meaning is more applicable here for it fits in with the other two parts of the verse which speaks of God’s revelations.
"The subject of the matter of the latter part of this verse, referred to in the words, “what is yet to come” finds further explanation in 6:3,4 where the Qur’an speaks of two advents of the Holy Prophet. His first advent took place among the Arabs in the 7th century of the Christian era when the Qur’an was revealed to him; and his second advent was to take place in the latter days of the world in the person of one of his followers who was to come in his spirit and power. This prophecy found its fulfillment in the person of Ahmad, the Promised Messiah and Founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam, in whose advent have been fulfilled also the prophecies of other Prophets regarding the appearance of a World-Messenger in the latter days” (Five Volume Commentary of The Holy Qur’an page 35)
Examples:
Now, if you do well, you will do well for your own souls; and if you do evil, it wil lonly go against them. So when the time for the latter warning came, We raised a people against you to cover your faces with grief, and to enter the Mosque as they entered it the first time, and to destroy all that they conquered with utter destruction. (Chapter 17 Verse 8)
In this the word used is al-akhir, but even your own translator, Muhsin Khan has translated it as the latter warning.
Also:
We have not heard of this evenin the latest religion. This is nothing but a fabrication.(Chapter 38 Verse 8)
Pickthall has translated it as the latest religion while Yusuf Ali has translated it as the people of these latter days
This should suffice, but many examples can be cited.
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 12:18 AM
What he referring to is that no one can be a true muslimunless he believes in him, but he has full authority to do so for he is a Prophet and God is speaking to him.
Reply

Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 12:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
What he referring to is that no one can be a true muslimunless he believes in him, but he has full authority to do so for he is a Prophet and God is speaking to him.
Your 'prophet' was a Hanafi muqallid you blithering fool, knock some sense into that skull of yours.
Reply

Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 12:19 AM
Assalamo alaikum, brother they are clear prophecies made by The Holy Prophet (sa) and the Holy Qur'an as cited. Also most muslims believe in the second coming of Hadhrat Isa (as).
Reply

Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 12:21 AM
That is not a refutation it is just an opinion of scholars, ut as cied before they are other scholars that agree with us.
Reply

Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 12:21 AM
Anyway Mr. Qadiani, like I tell dem Qadianis whenever they come to me get it handed to them:

Proving the possibility of another prophet coming doesn't prove Ghulam Ahmad to be a prophet.

It just opens the door of the possiblity of a prophet coming.

Even if I accept all the utter nonsense you have no clue about you posted here, all it proves is that a prophet can come.

It doesn't prove Ghulam Ahmad is a prophet.

That is something you still have to do.
Reply

Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 12:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
That is not a refutation it is just an opinion of scholars, ut as cied before they are other scholars that agree with us.
There are no scholars that agree with you, but that is irrelevant anyway.

I like how you conveniently dodged my post where I destroyed your whole cult using a single verse.

Here it is again, and let's see what your reply to it is:

format_quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher
Surah Baqarah destroying Qadianism with one verse:

والذين يؤمنون بما أنزل إليك وما أنزل من قبلك وبالآخرة هم يوقنون


And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith].

(2:4)

NO MENTION OF SOMETHING BEING REVEALED AFTER HIM (Muhammad :saws:)!

End of the story.
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 12:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
Assalamo alaikum, brother they are clear prophecies made by The Holy Prophet (sa) and the Holy Qur'an as cited. Also most muslims believe in the second coming of Hadhrat Isa (as).
Yes we believe Eesa will come, not Mr Hanafi Muqallid pretending to be the Maseeh.

And don't say salaam to me you zindeeq. I am not your brother.
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 12:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
What he referring to is that no one can be a true muslimunless he believes in him, but he has full authority to do so for he is a Prophet and God is speaking to him.
That's not what he said. He made takfeer you liar.

And I love how you Qadianis always refer to Allah as 'God' just like Mr. Hanafi Muqallid Prophet who calls Allah 'khuda' all the time in his books.

This itself is enough proof for any person with an iota of intelligence that your 'prophet' is a fake.
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 12:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
You believe he died and was buried in Indian Kashmir, correct?
That's what they believe but apparently even their muqallid prophet wasn't sure, he mentioned at least 2 places where he is buried.

Poor guy must have been confused.

As they say, lies have no legs.
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:02 AM
OP has run away. I hope he converts to Islam.
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
How it has been used for other people is not how one determines the meaning in the Qur'an. This is a non-argument.



Nice try, but it does not mean best nor praise. We are not going to take peaceforall as our mufassir of the Qur'an. We take Allah's words, we take the Prophet's (sallalahu alayhi wa sallam) explanation as recorded in the hadeeth, then we look at the righteous sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them), their students, and the early righteous scholars/mufassireen.

Nor do we take interpretation of Qur'an from non-Muslims.



I am not sure which translation you are using for 4:69, but it is incorrect. The Arabic word used is ma'a, which means with. The translators have translated this as with, or in the company of. It does not mean that we will become prophets - we seek Allah's refuge from such twisting of His words.



No, this refers to his second coming. Clearly Allah says he wasn't killed or crucified, but that Allah took him up to himself.
Continuing my reply, you mentioned maa'a means with
. Second, the word [ma‘a] here gives the meaning of [min: from among] because Allāh, the Exalted, has Himself clarified its meaning by using the word [min] in the same verse.
Also if we accept your translation what will it mean. it will mean tha we can only be with the righteos and only be with theatyrs by obeying allah and his messnger. This means we can't attain that spirtual rank. While righteous is something we are all suppose to aatin. Also what will be the point of praying 5 times in namaz that grant us blessings.
The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray." (1:6-7)
Also even your own scholars have translated maa'a as among.
For example:
Our Lord, we have believed in what You revealed and have followed the messenger [i.e., Jesus], so register us among the witnesses [to truth]." (3:53)
The word used in maa'a and is translated as among by Sahee international.
. Our Lord, indeed we have heard a caller [i.e., Prophet Muúammad ()] calling to faith, [saying], 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord, so forgive us our sins and remove from us our misdeeds and cause us to die among the righteous.
(4:193)
This is also translated by sahee international
Now when talking about raising Hdhrat Isa (as) the word you are referring to is rafaa'a bu the fact is that whenever this verse has been used in the Holy Qur'an for a human being it always means spirtual exatation, not physical
For example:
"And mention in the Book, Idrees. Indeed, he was a man of truth and a prophet. And We raised him to a high station." (19:56-57)
The word used is rafaa'a and is translated by Sahee international as a spirtual exaltation. Now if we use your understanding, it wil mean that Hadhray Idrees (as) was also raised to heaven. There is no proof for this however. Also:
Those messengers – some of them We caused to exceed others. Among them were those to whom Allah spoke, and He raised some of them in degree. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs, and We supported him with the Pure Spirit [i.e.,Gabriel]. If Allah had willed, those [generations] succeeding them would not have fought each other after the clear proofs had come to them. But they differed, and some of them believed and some of them disbelieved. And if Allah had willed, they would not have fought each other, but Allah does what He intends.
The word used once again is rafaa'a and translated as a spirtual exaltation by Sahee International.
In Lisanal Arab it is stated: The name rafi is among the names of allah because he elevates a believer with good fortune and his friends with nearness. The word rafa means to bring one thing close to another. One of the attributes of Allah itself is Al-Rafi, the One who Exalts. It’s been his law since the start of creation and never was it bodily.
Also don't you know that we pray 5 times a day to exalt us and word is rafaa'a"
It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: “When praying at night (Qiyamul-Lail), the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used to say between the two prostrations: ‘Rabbighfir li warhamni wajburni warzuqni warfa’ni (O Lord, forgive me, have mercy on me, improve my situation, grant me provision and raise me in status).’” (Ibn Maja book 1, vol 5, hadith 898)
Now do we pray to be lifted literally. Also why wasn't this prayer of the Holy Prophet (sa) (God Forbid) not accepted.
Also physical raising is refuted in Islam:
Or you have a house of ornament [i.e., gold] or you ascend into the sky. And [even then], we will not believe in your ascension until you bring down to us a book we may read." Say, "Exalted is my Lord! Was I ever but a human messenger?" (17:93).
When the Meccans told the Holy Prophet (sa) to go up i the sky Allah responded by he is only a mortal. Now if you translated rafaa'a here as literal raising up, the disbelievers will have a huge allegation for you believe that Hadhrat Isa (as) was raised up. ALso it will mean that Hadhrat Isa (as) isn't a mortal or a messenger.
This should suffice for now. But brother I urge you to ponder on these verses. These are translations by your scholars.
Wassalam
Reply

Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
Continuing my reply, you mentioned maa'a means with
. Second, the word [ma‘a] here gives the meaning of [min: from among] because Allāh, the Exalted, has Himself clarified its meaning by using the word [min] in the same verse.
Also if we accept your translation what will it mean. it will mean tha we can only be with the righteos and only be with theatyrs by obeying allah and his messnger. This means we can't attain that spirtual rank. While righteous is something we are all suppose to aatin. Also what will be the point of praying 5 times in namaz that grant us blessings.
The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray." (1:6-7)
Also even your own scholars have translated maa'a as among.
For example:
Our Lord, we have believed in what You revealed and have followed the messenger [i.e., Jesus], so register us among the witnesses [to truth]." (3:53)
The word used in maa'a and is translated as among by Sahee international.
. Our Lord, indeed we have heard a caller [i.e., Prophet Muúammad ()] calling to faith, [saying], 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord, so forgive us our sins and remove from us our misdeeds and cause us to die among the righteous.
(4:193)
This is also translated by sahee international
Now when talking about raising Hdhrat Isa (as) the word you are referring to is rafaa'a bu the fact is that whenever this verse has been used in the Holy Qur'an for a human being it always means spirtual exatation, not physical
For example:
"And mention in the Book, Idrees. Indeed, he was a man of truth and a prophet. And We raised him to a high station." (19:56-57)
The word used is rafaa'a and is translated by Sahee international as a spirtual exaltation. Now if we use your understanding, it wil mean that Hadhray Idrees (as) was also raised to heaven. There is no proof for this however. Also:
Those messengers – some of them We caused to exceed others. Among them were those to whom Allah spoke, and He raised some of them in degree. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs, and We supported him with the Pure Spirit [i.e.,Gabriel]. If Allah had willed, those [generations] succeeding them would not have fought each other after the clear proofs had come to them. But they differed, and some of them believed and some of them disbelieved. And if Allah had willed, they would not have fought each other, but Allah does what He intends.
The word used once again is rafaa'a and translated as a spirtual exaltation by Sahee International.
In Lisanal Arab it is stated: The name rafi is among the names of allah because he elevates a believer with good fortune and his friends with nearness. The word rafa means to bring one thing close to another. One of the attributes of Allah itself is Al-Rafi, the One who Exalts. It’s been his law since the start of creation and never was it bodily.
Also don't you know that we pray 5 times a day to exalt us and word is rafaa'a"
It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: “When praying at night (Qiyamul-Lail), the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used to say between the two prostrations: ‘Rabbighfir li warhamni wajburni warzuqni warfa’ni (O Lord, forgive me, have mercy on me, improve my situation, grant me provision and raise me in status).’” (Ibn Maja book 1, vol 5, hadith 898)
Now do we pray to be lifted literally. Also why wasn't this prayer of the Holy Prophet (sa) (God Forbid) not accepted.
Also physical raising is refuted in Islam:
Or you have a house of ornament [i.e., gold] or you ascend into the sky. And [even then], we will not believe in your ascension until you bring down to us a book we may read." Say, "Exalted is my Lord! Was I ever but a human messenger?" (17:93).
When the Meccans told the Holy Prophet (sa) to go up i the sky Allah responded by he is only a mortal. Now if you translated rafaa'a here as literal raising up, the disbelievers will have a huge allegation for you believe that Hadhrat Isa (as) was raised up. ALso it will mean that Hadhrat Isa (as) isn't a mortal or a messenger.
This should suffice for now. But brother I urge you to ponder on these verses. These are translations by your scholars.
Wassalam
Where is 'Eesa right now?
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:07 AM
That was in the beginning when he was first doing his research. He first proposed two places.
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:08 AM
Assalamoalaikum
I have already replied to this and cited many scholars that agree with me.
Reply

Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
That was in the beginning when he was first doing his research. He first proposed two places.
So your prophet came to this conclusion based on 'research'.

What a prophet.

And here I though prophet's received revelation from Allah and didn't talk out of their desires.
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
Assalamoalaikum
I have already replied to this and cited many scholars that agree with me.
Can you quote the posts you are replying too, or is that too much a task for you?

I guess it, since you believe in a muqallid prophet.

What have you replied to?
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:12 AM
Even the HOly Prophet (sa0 never eecieved direct knowledge sometimes. For example, when he got the dream of going to Hajj He thought it was the same year, But it was actually next year. Prophets aren't all-knowing. Besides it is God who is Guiding The Promised Messiah (as)
Reply

Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
Even the HOly Prophet (sa0 never eecieved direct knowledge sometimes. For example, when he got the dream of going to Hajj He thought it was the same year, But it was actually next year. Prophets aren't all-knowing. Besides it is God who is Guiding The Promised Messiah (as)
Why are you calling him the 'Promised' Messiah?

Who promised him?

And stop ignoring my previous posts, reply to them.
Reply

Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:15 AM
Hadhrat Isa (as) passed away as all prophets have passed away
And when Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’”, he will answer, “Holy art Thou. I could never say that to which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. It is only Thou Who art the Knower of hidden things. “I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me — ‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher over them; and Thou art Witness over all things. (Chapter 5 Verses 117-118)
“And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, all Messengers have passed away before him. If then he die or be slain, will you turn back on your heels? And he who turns back on his heels shall not harm Allah at all. And Allah will certainly reward the grateful.” (Chapter 3 verse 145)
Reply

Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher
Surah Baqarah destroying Qadianism with one verse:

والذين يؤمنون بما أنزل إليك وما أنزل من قبلك وبالآخرة هم يوقنون


And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith].

(2:4)

NO MENTION OF SOMETHING BEING REVEALED AFTER HIM (Muhammad :saws:)!

End of the story.
^^

For the third time, let's see your reply to this one.
Reply

Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:15 AM
He was promised by the Holy Prophet (sa) in his prophecies
Reply

Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:16 AM
I have already replied to this I will paste it here again. Just one moment
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
Hadhrat Isa (as) passed away as all prophets have passed away
And when Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary, didst thou say to men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?’”, he will answer, “Holy art Thou. I could never say that to which I had no right. If I had said it, Thou wouldst have surely known it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. It is only Thou Who art the Knower of hidden things. “I said nothing to them except that which Thou didst command me — ‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them as long as I remained among them, but since Thou didst cause me to die, Thou hast been the Watcher over them; and Thou art Witness over all things. (Chapter 5 Verses 117-118)
“And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, all Messengers have passed away before him. If then he die or be slain, will you turn back on your heels? And he who turns back on his heels shall not harm Allah at all. And Allah will certainly reward the grateful.” (Chapter 3 verse 145)
If the verse of the Quran says Eesa is dead, then why are you calling Mirza the promised messiah? Who promised that a messiah will come?
Reply

Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:17 AM
This is a reply to the brother who just post verse (2:4). First of all within what is revealed, that is the Holy Qur'an it is mentioned a prophet will come and when he does we have to accept him. For example the prophecy of the second coming of Hadhrat Isa(as). Also the Holy Qur'an states, "O children of Adam! if Messengers come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing My Signs unto you, then whoso shall fear God and do good deeds, on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve.; (7:36).
The In addition, Allāh, the Exalted, uses the f‘ailmudhāri‘ formation in the above verse while addressing thechildren of Adam which means that this still applies toeveryone today and will be applicable to everyone until the LastDay.
Now on the word Al- Akhir. First of all it is not the last day that is mentioned for the word youm is no where mentioned in the verse. The word “al-Akhir” (what is yet to come” means either “the message or revelation which is to follow” or “the Last Abode”, i.e. the next life. the first meaning is more applicable here for it fits in with the other two parts of the verse which speaks of God’s revelations.
"The subject of the matter of the latter part of this verse, referred to in the words, “what is yet to come” finds further explanation in 6:3,4 where the Qur’an speaks of two advents of the Holy Prophet. His first advent took place among the Arabs in the 7th century of the Christian era when the Qur’an was revealed to him; and his second advent was to take place in the latter days of the world in the person of one of his followers who was to come in his spirit and power. This prophecy found its fulfillment in the person of Ahmad, the Promised Messiah and Founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam, in whose advent have been fulfilled also the prophecies of other Prophets regarding the appearance of a World-Messenger in the latter days” (Five Volume Commentary of The Holy Qur’an page 35)
Examples:
Now, if you do well, you will do well for your own souls; and if you do evil, it wil lonly go against them. So when the time for the latter warning came, We raised a people against you to cover your faces with grief, and to enter the Mosque as they entered it the first time, and to destroy all that they conquered with utter destruction. (Chapter 17 Verse 8)
In this the word used is al-akhir, but even your own translator, Muhsin Khan has translated it as the latter warning.
Also:
We have not heard of this evenin the latest religion. This is nothing but a fabrication.(Chapter 38 Verse 8)
Pickthall has translated it as the latest religion while Yusuf Ali has translated it as the people of these latter days
This should suffice, but many examples can be cited.
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
I have already replied to this I will paste it here again. Just one moment
Replied to what?

For the 2nd time, quote the things you are replying to.
Reply

Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:18 AM
One more thing:

Space your posts out properly.

Like this.

Not like this:

askjdklsja
asdjfkasldjfklajsdflkajsdflk
asdfjkaskdfjlasdfjlksdjfldjakf
Reply

Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
This is a reply to the brother who just post verse (2:4).

First of all within what is revealed, that is the Holy Qur'an it is mentioned a prophet will come and when he does we have to accept him.

Show me where the Quran mentions this.

For example the prophecy of the second coming of Hadhrat Isa(as). Also the Holy Qur'an states, "O children of Adam! if Messengers come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing My Signs unto you, then whoso shall fear God and do good deeds, on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve.; (7:36).

I thought you just said the Quran says Eesa is dead, now you are saying that he will come again. Are you stupid?
.
Yes? Let's see your 'reply', ummm I mean the copy paste you have no clue about yourself.
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:20 AM
I ahve already talked about this, When the Holy Prophet (sa) mentioned the second coming of Hadhrat Isa (as). He meant it metaphorically. The same thing happened to Hadhrat Elija (as). It was prophecised that he will come before Hadhrat Isa (as), but he never came. Instead it was a metaphorical coming in the person of John the Baptist or Hadhrat Yahya (as) and also Allah's way doesn't change.
Such has been the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away before, and thou wilt never find a change in the way of Allah. (33:63)

Reply

Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:21 AM
It is the second coming of HADHRAT iSA (AS0 WHICH IS METAPPHORICAL THAT IS WHAT i AM TALKING ABOUT
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Zafran
01-14-2016, 01:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher
Yes we believe Eesa will come, not Mr Hanafi Muqallid pretending to be the Maseeh.

And don't say salaam to me you zindeeq. I am not your brother.
There are alot of Hanifi Muqalids -stop being offensive for the sake of being offensive.
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
I ahve already talked about this, When the Holy Prophet (sa) mentioned the second coming of Hadhrat Isa (as). He meant it metaphorically. The same thing happened to Hadhrat Elija (as). It was prophecised that he will come before Hadhrat Isa (as), but he never came. Instead it was a metaphorical coming in the person of John the Baptist or Hadhrat Yahya (as) and also Allah's way doesn't change.
Such has been the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away before, and thou wilt never find a change in the way of Allah. (33:63)

If Eesa was dead, why did the Prophet :saws: use his name?

Anyway, let's ignore that.

Let's see this hadith which you are talking about where the Prophet :saws: mentioned the second coming of Eesa and meant it metaphorically.

Please ignore everything for now and just show me this hadith.
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Zafran
01-14-2016, 01:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
It is the second coming of HADHRAT iSA (AS0 WHICH IS METAPPHORICAL THAT IS WHAT i AM TALKING ABOUT
So what do you guys believe about the majority Muslims who reject Mirza Ghulam. Are we all going to hell? as we reject a "true" prophet according to you?
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:23 AM
When I mean the coming of Hadhrat Isa (as) I mean the second coming which is metaphorical.
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
There are alot of Hanifi Muqalids -stop being offensive for the sake of being offensive.
I have nothing against Hanafi muqallids, laymen being muqallids is no problem.

A prophet however being a muqallid is a completely different thing.

So don't try to be defensive just for the sake of being defensive.
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
When I mean the coming of Hadhrat Isa (as) I mean the second coming which is metaphorical.
Show me the hadith.
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:24 AM
Abû Hurayrah relates that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “By Him in Whose hand is my life, the son of Mary (peace be upon him) will soon descend among you as a just judge. He will break crosses, kill the swine and abolish the poll-tax, and wealth will pour forth to such an extent that no one will accept it.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (2222) and Sahîh Muslim (155)]

Are you talking about this hadith?
Reply

Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:24 AM
First of all he is no going to say it is metaphorical, Even the prophecy of Hadhrat Elija 9as didn't say it was metaphorical. However, it is deduced that it must be metaphorical. Now give me minute to finnd the prophecy.\
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Zafran
01-14-2016, 01:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher
I have nothing against Hanafi muqallids, laymen being muqallids is no problem.

A prophet however being a muqallid is a completely different thing.

So don't try to be defensive just for the sake of being defensive.
Laymen?? there are a lot of great scholars.... actually most of them that were Muqalid? Calling him names just because he said salam to you was way out of order.
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Laymen?? there are a lot of great scholars.... actually most of them that were Muqalid? Calling him names just because he said salam to you was way out of order.
Please stay out of my discussion with him when you don't know what you're talking about. No offense.
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
First of all he is no going to say it is metaphorical, Even the prophecy of Hadhrat Elija 9as didn't say it was metaphorical. However, it is deduced that it must be metaphorical. Now give me minute to finnd the prophecy.\
Can you stop running around and tell me whether this is the hadith or not?


Abû Hurayrah relates that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “By Him in Whose hand is my life, the son of Mary (peace be upon him) will soon descend among you as a just judge. He will break crosses, kill the swine and abolish the poll-tax, and wealth will pour forth to such an extent that no one will accept it.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (2222) and Sahîh Muslim (155)]
Reply

Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:28 AM
It is all dependant on Allah for Allah is the judge. You must however make proper investigation has the Holy Qur'an tells us to . Also there is a famous hadith that we must find the imam and stick with him.
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:29 AM
Yes I am but there is another one that is more clear
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
Yes I am but there is another one that is more clear
So you agree that this hadith is the one that talks about the 'metaphorical' second coming of Jesus?
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Zafran
01-14-2016, 01:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher
Please stay out of my discussion with him when you don't know what you're talking about. No offense.
Do you honestly think that discussion is going anywhere - the mods are going to shut this thread down as its Ijma that there is no other prophet after the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. No need to go hadith mining.

Lastly he may not be your brother in faith but he is in humanity - if he said salam no need to go crazy and call him names which is another thing that probabaly is going to get deleted. As is this thread
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Linkdeutscher
01-14-2016, 01:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Do you honestly think that discussion is going anywhere - the mods are going to shut this thread down as its Ijma that there is no other prophet after the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. No need to go hadith mining.

Lastly he may not be your brother in faith but he is in humanity - if he said salam no need to go crazy and call him names which is another thing that probabaly is going to get deleted. As is this thread
He is not my brother in anything - he is a zindeeq.

In an Islamic state he would've been executed for promoting this filth.

And 'zindeeq' is not name calling, it means heretic and that's exactly what he is.
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Zafran
01-14-2016, 01:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Linkdeutscher
He is not my brother in anything - he is a zindeeq.

In an Islamic state he would've been executed for promoting this filth.

And 'zindeeq' is not name calling, it means heretic and that's exactly what he is.
What like ISIS?
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:36 AM
Yes I agree it is the hadith and it has been explained by the Promised Messiah (as).
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:38 AM
Actually in atrue Islamic state people have the right to say what they want. "There is no compulsion in religion" (2:257)
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:38 AM
Brother I have proven through the Holy Qur'an that prophethood is clearly supported
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Zafran
01-14-2016, 01:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
Yes I agree it is the hadith and it has been explained by the Promised Messiah (as).
Will most muslims be going to hell as we reject Mirza Ghulam?
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:40 AM
You may abuse me, but I shall be patient.
And why should we not put our trust in Allah when He has showed us our ways? And we will, surely, bear withpatience all the harm you do us. So in Allah let those who trust put their trust.’ (14:13)
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:40 AM
Also you have not yet replied to my verses.
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:43 AM
It is all up to Allah for he is the Judge. I cannot judge whether one is going to hell or not. It is not my right. But one must make proper investigation.
Say: ‘Do you dispute with us concerning Allah, while He is our Lord and your Lord? And for us are our works, and for you your works; and to Him alone we are sincerely devoted.’ (2:140)
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Zafran
01-14-2016, 01:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Peaceforall
It is all up to Allah for he is the Judge. I cannot judge whether one is going to hell or not. It is not my right. But one must make proper investigation.
Say: ‘Do you dispute with us concerning Allah, while He is our Lord and your Lord? And for us are our works, and for you your works; and to Him alone we are sincerely devoted.’ (2:140)
But what if someone rejects Mirza Ghulam is he going to hell?
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:48 AM
It is wrong to disbelieve in a prophet as we are all suppose to accept all the prophets. However, the question of going to hell rests with Allah. I am not to judge your circumstances. I have no authority to say yes or no. it is only Allah's right. For example, the Holy Qur'an speaks of the Jews and other religions ahving an award with him even though they did not accept Islam.
[2:63] Surely, the Believers, and the Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians — whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds — shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve.
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 01:58 AM
All of these are misquotations.
“We inform our readers that our belief concerning Jesus is extremely noble. We most sincerely believe that he was a true prophet of Allah, and He loved him. As the Holy Qur’an tells us, we hold firm faith that he most sincerely believed in our lord and master prophet Muhammad Mustafa (may peace and blessings of Allah be on him) for his salvation, and that he was one of the hundreds of obedient servants of the Law of Moses. Therefore, we hold a great esteem for him in accordance with his exalted status.” (Nur-ul-Qur’an, Part 2, Ruhani Khaza’in, Vol. 9, p. 3)
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Peaceforall
01-14-2016, 02:07 AM
As for my proofs provided for prophethood please ponder over it.
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AabiruSabeel
01-14-2016, 04:54 AM
حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ زَيْدٍ، عَنْ أَيُّوبَ، عَنْ أَبِي قِلاَبَةَ، عَنْ أَبِي أَسْمَاءَ الرَّحَبِيِّ، عَنْ ثَوْبَانَ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ لاَ تَقُومُ السَّاعَةُ حَتَّى تَلْحَقَ قَبَائِلُ مِنْ أُمَّتِي بِالْمُشْرِكِينَ وَحَتَّى يَعْبُدُوا الأَوْثَانَ وَإِنَّهُ سَيَكُونُ فِي أُمَّتِي ثَلاَثُونَ كَذَّابُونَ كُلُّهُمْ يَزْعُمُ أَنَّهُ نَبِيٌّ وَأَنَا خَاتَمُ النَّبِيِّينَ لاَ نَبِيَّ بَعْدِي ‏"‏

Thawban :ra: narrated that the Messenger of Allah :saws: said:
"The Hour shall not be established until tribes of my Ummah unite with the idolaters, and until they worship idols. And indeed there shall be thirty imposters in my Ummah, each of them claiming that he is a Prophet. And I am the last of the Prophets, there is no Prophet after me." [Tirmidhi]


وعن أبى هريرة رضي الله عنه قال‏:‏ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم‏:‏ ‏ "‏كانت بنو إسرائيل تسوسهم الأنبياء، كلما هلك نبى خلفه نبى، وإنه لا نبى بعدى وسيكون بعدى خلفاء فيكثرون” قالوا‏:‏ يا رسول الله فما تأمرنا‏؟‏ قال‏:‏ ‏"‏أوفوا ببيعة الأول فالأول، ثم أعطوهم حقهم، واسألوا الله الذى لكم ، فإن الله سائلهم عما استرعاهم” ‏(‏‏(‏متفق عليه‏)‏‏)‏

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "The Banu Isra'il were ruled by the Prophets. When one Prophet died, another succeeded him. There will be no Prophet after me. Caliphs will come after me, and they will be many." The Companions said: "O Messenger of Allah, what do you command us to do?" He said, "Fulfill the pledge of allegiance to which is sworn first (then swear allegiance to the others). Concede to them their due rights and ask Allah that which is due to you. Allah will call them to account in respect of the subjects whom He had entrusted to them." [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]


رِ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ الْمُسَيَّبِ، عَنْ عَامِرِ بْنِ سَعْدِ، بْنِ أَبِي وَقَّاصٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم لِعَلِيٍّ ‏ "‏ أَنْتَ مِنِّي بِمَنْزِلَةِ هَارُونَ مِنْ مُوسَى إِلاَّ أَنَّهُ لاَ نَبِيَّ بَعْدِي ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ سَعِيدٌ فَأَحْبَبْتُ أَنْ أُشَافِهَ بِهَا سَعْدًا فَلَقِيتُ سَعْدًا فَحَدَّثْتُهُ بِمَا حَدَّثَنِي عَامِرٌ فَقَالَ أَنَا سَمِعْتُهُ ‏.‏ فَقُلْتُ آنْتَ سَمِعْتَهُ فَوَضَعَ إِصْبَعَيْهِ عَلَى أُذُنَيْهِ فَقَالَ نَعَمْ وَإِلاَّ فَاسْتَكَّتَا ‏

Amir b Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas :ra: reported (on the authority of his father that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) addressing 'Ali :ra: said:
You are in the same position with relation to me as Aaron (Harun) was in relation to Moses but with (this explicit difference) that there is no prophet after me. Sa'd said: I had an earnest desire to hear it directly from Sa'd, so I met him and narrated to him what (his son) Amir had narrated to me, whereupon he said: Yes, I did hear it. I said: Did you hear it yourself? Thereupon he placed his fingers upon his ears and said: Yes, and if not, let both my ears become deaf. [Muslim]


حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ نُمَيْرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بِشْرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ، قُلْتُ لاِبْنِ أَبِي أَوْفَى رَأَيْتَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ ابْنَ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ مَاتَ صَغِيرًا، وَلَوْ قُضِيَ أَنْ يَكُونَ بَعْدَ مُحَمَّدٍ صلى الله عليه وسلم نَبِيٌّ عَاشَ ابْنُهُ، وَلَكِنْ لاَ نَبِيَّ بَعْدَهُ‏.‏

Narrated Isma`il:
I asked Abi `Aufa, "Did you see Ibrahim, the son of the Prophet (ﷺ) ?" He said, "Yes, but he died in his early childhood. Had there been a Prophet after Muhammad then his son would have lived, but there is no Prophet after him." [Bukhari]



:threadclo


Please see this thread to read more about the Qadiyani movement: http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-and-divisions/856-[sectarian-article]-ahmadiyya-qadiani-movement.html
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