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ardianto
01-21-2016, 03:49 PM
I was stopped at a crossroad when I noticed the motorcycle rider beside me. He wore helmet, leather jacket, jeans, and boot. Suddenly a question appeared in my mind. "Is he Muslim?. If he is Muslim, is he allowed to dress like this?". Immediately an image appeared in my mind, the image of how Muslim should dress when he ride motorcycle, wear gamis, turban, and sandals. But a moment later I 'awoke'. "Oh no!, this silly thought comes in my mind again!".

OKay, I will start from beginning.

I was born in Muslim family in Muslim majority country. And like other Muslims, I learn Islam since I was kid from Islamic teachers. Now, although not directly, I still learn Islam from Islamic teachers in my place, through their lectures on TV, or through their Islamic articles in magazine and newspapers. Alhamdulillah, I got many knowledge to know how to live as Muslim. Yes, those Islamic teachers really enlightening me.

Later after I used internet I began to thinking to build the ties of silaturahim with Muslims from other places. So I looked for a 'place' where I can meet other Muslims, and I decided to join in this forum. My activity in forum made me wanted to visit Islamic sites, and learn. Then I visited few Islamic sites that look interesting. However, instead of enlightened, I began to confused.

Islam that I found in these sites was different than Islam that taught by Islamic teachers in my place. Far more stricter!. In example, Muslims should always follow Qur'an and sunnah. I could understand if this was about ibadah. But in muamalah or non ibadah matter, should Muslims always follow sunnah?. How if I do something that haven't exist in period of Rasulullah?.

In one site I found statement that describe dawah in radio as against sunnah since Rasulullah and sahaba never used radio for dawah. In another site, Muslims should not establish Muslim organization because salaf never established organization. I also found an order for Muslim to leave fiqh because follow fiqh is against sunnah.

Another thing that confuse me is prohibition to imitate non-Muslims. Indeed, Islamic teachers in my place tell the same thing too. But what I found in these sites was stricter because that include prohibition to speak language that spoken by non-Muslims, and prohibition to use technologies that invented by non-Muslims. It confused me because this fatwa was written in English and posted in internet!.

I began to feel something weird when I visited a bookstore in year 2010. I found a good book about nature and thought to buy it for my children to teach them to love nature. But suddenly a question appeared in my mind, "Are Muslims allowed to care to the nature?". I remember non-Muslim people who active in nature preservation and I began to thinking if I care to the nature, it's mean I imitate non-Muslims. So I put the book back on rack and leave the bookstore. I 'awoke' just few meters after I left the bookstore. I asked myself, "What happen with me?. Why I thought like that?". But I decided to go home without buy that book.

I never again visit those Islamic sites. But I don't know why the silly thought is still haunting my mind and can appear anytime. Like when I ate noodle, I asked myself "Are Muslims allowed to eat noodle?". When I saw someone rode bicycle, I asked myself "Are Muslims allowed to ride bicycle?". It's happen spontaneously without I can prevent. It always makes me confused for a moment until I 'awake'.

I don't know, how could those sites affect my mind like this?. Even after I leave those sites for few years. Is it because my iman is not strong enough?.

To be honest, it sometime makes me think to leave the forum. Yeah, there was something that ever happened. One day when I was confused I felt like I heard a voice in my mind that order me to leave Islamic sites in internet, and back to learn from real teachers in the real world. But I feel hard to leave Islamicboard that I love.
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sister herb
01-21-2016, 04:08 PM
The one thing what came to my mind when reading your post was: ok this kind of effect some sites in Internet might be for Muslim who has lived in Islamic society all his life and got information from the real teachers. But how big mess there might be in the mind of some revert who hasn´t never had any other teacher than only "Internet".

:exhausted
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ardianto
01-21-2016, 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
The one thing what came to my mind when reading your post was: ok this kind of effect some sites in Internet might be for Muslim who has lived in Islamic society all his life and got information from the real teachers. But how big mess there might be in the mind of some revert who hasn´t never had any other teacher than only "Internet".

:exhausted
Assalamualaikum, sister.

You know me as ardianto, a widower with two children. But do you know who is the person behind username ardianto?. How if this person actually a man with three wives and has ten children?. Would you know it?. I don't think so.

The danger of learn Islam from internet is we do not always know the teacher who teach us because everyone can act like Islamic teacher in internet. Has no knowledge, but pretend as aleem. Yes, my fault was I learned from "shaykh anonymous" who I didn't know who were they in the real world.

Can you learn Islam from internet?. It's okay, as long as you learn from the real Islamic teachers. I myself still learn Islam from internet, but only from official sites of the real Islamic teacher who I often learn from them through their lecture or articles in the real world.

:)
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ardianto
01-21-2016, 05:36 PM
One day my son asked me "Dad, how is the sunnah of eating?. Use three fingers or five fingers?". A question that easy to be answered, actually. However, before I answer, my son asked me again "But dad, how could we know about it if we never saw Rasulullah when eating?". I began to realize the point of his question. So I told him "We know from our teachers". But suddenly I remember a question that I found in one site.

Someone wrote "You perform salah like that because your teacher taught you like that. You teacher learned it from his teacher. But how can you sure the method of salah that taught by your teacher is right if he never met Rasulullah?. How if he learned from the wrong person?". Then the writer proposed a solution, back to Qur'an and sunnah. But I still confused by his question.

The "Back to Qur'an and Sunnah" movement indeed controversial because it urge Muslims to reject fiqh that taught by fuqaha, and directly follow Qur’an and sunnah like sahabah. This movement got resistance from ulama. I’ve ever seen a photo of banner from ulama that displayed in public place, “Back to Qur’an and sunnah is only for mujtahid (those who capable to make ijtihad)”. Ulama also remind people the danger of follow Qur’an and sunnah without guidance from teachers, like those people do.

Yeah, they are people behind the Islamic sites that confuse me.
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Scimitar
01-21-2016, 07:26 PM
I've seen people choose Islam because of what they learnt through the internet... in fact a few weeks ago we were witness to a shadahah by a English lad who wanted to become Muslim, through his interactions with us on VC forum. He is now Muslim mashaAllah.

Scimi
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ardianto
01-22-2016, 12:36 AM
A question suddenly came into my mind this morning, "Is this a warning?".

The problem with silly thought indeed happen because my own fault. Started from I found weird statement, then I browse the web to find other weird statement. I did it because, I admit, I regard these statements as funny joke. But then instead of laugh I began to confused.

Probably this is a warning from Allah that I should not laugh at other people ignorance because I am actually an ignorant person too but I don't know.

Is this a warning?. Whatever is this, Alhamdulillah, it gives me a great lesson.

:)
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greenhill
01-22-2016, 12:41 AM
Yes, br Ardianto, I ahve had similar discussion in the past on this.

Our world is very different from the world that Rasulullah lived. It is not easy to picture it. I am not sure if we could strictly follow the sunnah. There has been too many changes in the world today that the everyday life most likely does not resemble the ties of the past.

Biggest example would be technology and how that has transformed the world we live in today. Electricity, building materials, transportation system, education system, the extensive use of money (with interest), the ownership of land by the Government (no longer Allah the Sovereign), the foods we eat (processed), the clothes and styling, our everyday hygiene products (soaps etc,) the tapped water, even all convenience stuff like lighters to spark the fires, etc etc etc.

So I have observed that everything introduced to the world today and laws that bind the people and even nations together are all almost the opposite to the laws given by the Books and it is quite clear that these things have strong input to lead man astray from following the path of righteousness. All part of Syaitan's plans from the beginning.

If he cannot do it directly, he will create waswas in out minds and hearts....

In the end, I hope it is our intention to get close to Allah is the one that counts....


:peace:
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OmAbdullah
01-22-2016, 01:51 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
One day my son asked me "Dad, how is the sunnah of eating?. Use three fingers or five fingers?". A question that easy to be answered, actually. However, before I answer, my son asked me again "But dad, how could we know about it if we never saw Rasulullah when eating?". I began to realize the point of his question. So I told him "We know from our teachers". But suddenly I remember a question that I found in one site.

Someone wrote "You perform salah like that because your teacher taught you like that. You teacher learned it from his teacher. But how can you sure the method of salah that taught by your teacher is right if he never met Rasulullah?. How if he learned from the wrong person?". Then the writer proposed a solution, back to Qur'an and sunnah. But I still confused by his question.

The "Back to Qur'an and Sunnah" movement indeed controversial because it urge Muslims to reject fiqh that taught by fuqaha, and directly follow Qur’an and sunnah like sahabah. This movement got resistance from ulama. I’ve ever seen a photo of banner from ulama that displayed in public place, “Back to Qur’an and sunnah is only for mujtahid (those who capable to make ijtihad)”. Ulama also remind people the danger of follow Qur’an and sunnah without guidance from teachers, like those people do.

Yeah, they are people behind the Islamic sites that confuse me.


Assalaamo alaikum wa rahmatullah,


Back to Quraan and Sunnah is the real way of guidance. Any aalim who guides you away from it, is not sincere. Saying that "Quraan can be understood by a mujtahid only" is a wrong statement. You can say, from where did a mujtahid learn? How did he become mujtahid? Did he come down from the heaven with the knowledge and ability to do ijtihaad? No, No, No.

The saying of such people is against the Quraan itself. Allah said repeatedly in the surah Al-Qamar, " wa laqad yassarna Al-Quraana lizzikri fahal mim-muddakil?"


And We have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember (or receive admonition)?

Therefore you have to take a good tafseer of the Holy Quraan like Tafheemul-Quraan (at tafheem.net) and start regularly reading and understanding it. That will give you the knowledge of both of the Quraan and Sunnah because the verses are explained with ahaadeeth. The Holy Quraan is a miraculous Book. If you struggle sincerely' it will give you such understanding that insha-Allah you will become a mujtahid.

Please note it that now there are people who come in the shape of ulamaa but they actually try to keep Muslims and others away from the knowledge of the Quraan and Sunnah. They don't actually want Muslims to become mujtahideen.


Also those preachers who only preach for months and years the methods how to enter a bathroom, and how to eat and some say that the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam used to eat with 3 fingers while others say that he used to eat with 5 fingers. All of them only want to waste the time of Muslims, keep them away from the real knowledge of the Quraan and Sunnah and divert the Muslims from the most important actions. Please remember that Islam has taught us the whole way of life and in our personal things has left us for our wisdom. So we can use our hand to eat as is easy for us, but has given us moral points like to eat from your own side, wash hands and start with bismillah etc.


As far as salaat, Azaan and iqaamah are concerned, these are called Hadeeth mutawaatar. It means that these acts of Sunnah have been passing on from generation to generation since the time of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa asallam until now and also will continue in future. These Sunnah are observed by numerous people and therefore Satan's friends cannot change them So be satisfied with them and keep on regular prayers.

(I have used "z" a letter for which usually "dh" is used in English like Azaan =Adhaan and zikar =dhikar)
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OmAbdullah
01-22-2016, 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
I was stopped at a crossroad when I noticed the motorcycle rider beside me. He wore helmet, leather jacket, jeans, and boot. Suddenly a question appeared in my mind. "Is he Muslim?. If he is Muslim, is he allowed to dress like this?". Immediately an image appeared in my mind, the image of how Muslim should dress when he ride motorcycle, wear gamis, turban, and sandals. But a moment later I 'awoke'. "Oh no!, this silly thought comes in my mind again!".

OKay, I will start from beginning.

I was born in Muslim family in Muslim majority country. And like other Muslims, I learn Islam since I was kid from Islamic teachers. Now, although not directly, I still learn Islam from Islamic teachers in my place, through their lectures on TV, or through their Islamic articles in magazine and newspapers. Alhamdulillah, I got many knowledge to know how to live as Muslim. Yes, those Islamic teachers really enlightening me.

Later after I used internet I began to thinking to build the ties of silaturahim with Muslims from other places. So I looked for a 'place' where I can meet other Muslims, and I decided to join in this forum. My activity in forum made me wanted to visit Islamic sites, and learn. Then I visited few Islamic sites that look interesting. However, instead of enlightened, I began to confused.

Islam that I found in these sites was different than Islam that taught by Islamic teachers in my place. Far more stricter!. In example, Muslims should always follow Qur'an and sunnah. I could understand if this was about ibadah. But in muamalah or non ibadah matter, should Muslims always follow sunnah?. How if I do something that haven't exist in period of Rasulullah?.

In one site I found statement that describe dawah in radio as against sunnah since Rasulullah and sahaba never used radio for dawah. In another site, Muslims should not establish Muslim organization because salaf never established organization. I also found an order for Muslim to leave fiqh because follow fiqh is against sunnah.

Another thing that confuse me is prohibition to imitate non-Muslims. Indeed, Islamic teachers in my place tell the same thing too. But what I found in these sites was stricter because that include prohibition to speak language that spoken by non-Muslims, and prohibition to use technologies that invented by non-Muslims. It confused me because this fatwa was written in English and posted in internet!.

I began to feel something weird when I visited a bookstore in year 2010. I found a good book about nature and thought to buy it for my children to teach them to love nature. But suddenly a question appeared in my mind, "Are Muslims allowed to care to the nature?". I remember non-Muslim people who active in nature preservation and I began to thinking if I care to the nature, it's mean I imitate non-Muslims. So I put the book back on rack and leave the bookstore. I 'awoke' just few meters after I left the bookstore. I asked myself, "What happen with me?. Why I thought like that?". But I decided to go home without buy that book.

I never again visit those Islamic sites. But I don't know why the silly thought is still haunting my mind and can appear anytime. Like when I ate noodle, I asked myself "Are Muslims allowed to eat noodle?". When I saw someone rode bicycle, I asked myself "Are Muslims allowed to ride bicycle?". It's happen spontaneously without I can prevent. It always makes me confused for a moment until I 'awake'.

I don't know, how could those sites affect my mind like this?. Even after I leave those sites for few years. Is it because my iman is not strong enough?.

To be honest, it sometime makes me think to leave the forum. Yeah, there was something that ever happened. One day when I was confused I felt like I heard a voice in my mind that order me to leave Islamic sites in internet, and back to learn from real teachers in the real world. But I feel hard to leave Islamicboard that I love.


Assalaamo alaikum


Again, your confusion is because of the lack of direct contact with Quraan and Sunnah which you can get in a good tafseer of the Holy Quraan.

Radio and all technology are the blessings of Allah and must be used for the progress of Allah's Deen. Their use will become sinful if they are used for the things against Allah's commands like music etc.

If you understand the Holy Quraan you will see that Allah Almighty, again and again, divert our attention to observe nature because it is created by Allah and has the signs of the greatness of The Creator. For e.g. Allah said in surah al-waqiah verses 75-76 (their English translation is):

So I swear by Mawaqi (setting or the mansions, etc.) of the stars (they traverse).

This is the astronomy which only great scientists can understand. So Allah said after this aayah:


And verily, that is indeed a great oath, if you but know.

Allah said in surah Al-Baqarah verse 164, its English translation is:


Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, and the ships which sail through the sea with that which is of use to mankind, and the water (rain) which Allah sends down from the sky and makes the earth alive therewith after its death, and the moving (living) creatures of all kinds that He has scattered therein, and in the veering of winds and clouds which are held between the sky and the earth, are indeed Ayat (proofs, evidences, signs, etc.) for people of understanding.

Whether you are learning from a teacher or from the internet, basically you must be in contact with understanding of the Holy Quraan from a very good tafseer. Then you will not be in danger of straying, rather you will be in position to improve and correct others insha Allah. Remaining away from the understanding of the Holy Quraan puts the person in danger to slip easily and therefore Satan and his followers try their best to keep mankind ignorant from the Holy Quraan.
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azc
01-23-2016, 09:26 AM
Keep in touch with local scholars and What random ppl say on internet, don't believe.
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ardianto
01-23-2016, 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Assalaamo alaikum wa rahmatullah,
Waalaikumsalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

Back to Quraan and Sunnah is the real way of guidance. Any aalim who guides you away from it, is not sincere. Saying that "Quraan can be understood by a mujtahid only" is a wrong statement. You can say, from where did a mujtahid learn? How did he become mujtahid? Did he come down from the heaven with the knowledge and ability to do ijtihaad? No, No, No.
Ulama in my place do not forbid ummah to make ijtihad. They just warn, if someone want to make ijtihad, he should have knowledge and capability as mujtahid. This warning refer to phenomenon that happen nowadays which there are people who have no knowledge, but dare to make ijtihad and issuing fatwa.

One phenomenon that happen nowadays is there are youths who prefer to learn Islam only from internet without guidance from teachers. Unfortunately, internet also give easiness for them to act like ulama. They create their own Islamic blog where they can issue their own fatwa, regardless that their fatwa is chaotic and confuse people who read it.

Originally Posted by nbegam
Again, your confusion is because of the lack of direct contact with Quraan and Sunnah which you can get in a good tafseer of the Holy Quraan.

Radio and all technology are the blessings of Allah and must be used for the progress of Allah's Deen. Their use will become sinful if they are used for the things against Allah's commands like music etc.
"Using radio for dawah is against Sunnah" is not my statement, but someone else's statement that found it in an Islamic blog. This is an example of statement that issued by ignorant person but act like aleem.
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OmAbdullah
01-23-2016, 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Waalaikumsalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.


Ulama in my place do not forbid ummah to make ijtihad. They just warn, if someone want to make ijtihad, he should have knowledge and capability as mujtahid. This warning refer to phenomenon that happen nowadays which there are people who have no knowledge, but dare to make ijtihad and issuing fatwa.

Those ulama are right. Ijtihaad is not easy thing to do. It needs good knowledge of Quraan. I didn't object against such ulama. My statement is against those who prevent from reading and understanding The Holy Quraan as you had told in your post. I said that by reading and understanding the Holy Quraan regularly, a Muslim can reach the status of a mujtahid. Remaining unaware from it will be great loss.


"Using radio for dawah is against Sunnah" is not my statement, but someone else's statement that found it in an Islamic blog. This is an example of statement that issued by ignorant person but act like aleem.

I didn't say that it is your statement.
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sister herb
01-23-2016, 10:34 PM
I have sometimes noticed that to here comes new members whose almost in panic ask like "is this haram, is that haram?". I have thought they are like those people described in this thread whose have read too many confusing Internet sites and now don´t know at all difference of halal and haram but afraid all they do is haram.

It´s sad. :phew
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-23-2016, 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
I was stopped at a crossroad when I noticed the motorcycle rider beside me. He wore helmet, leather jacket, jeans, and boot. Suddenly a question appeared in my mind. "Is he Muslim?. If he is Muslim, is he allowed to dress like this?". Immediately an image appeared in my mind, the image of how Muslim should dress when he ride motorcycle, wear gamis, turban, and sandals. But a moment later I 'awoke'. "Oh no!, this silly thought comes in my mind again!".

OKay, I will start from beginning.

I was born in Muslim family in Muslim majority country. And like other Muslims, I learn Islam since I was kid from Islamic teachers. Now, although not directly, I still learn Islam from Islamic teachers in my place, through their lectures on TV, or through their Islamic articles in magazine and newspapers. Alhamdulillah, I got many knowledge to know how to live as Muslim. Yes, those Islamic teachers really enlightening me.

Later after I used internet I began to thinking to build the ties of silaturahim with Muslims from other places. So I looked for a 'place' where I can meet other Muslims, and I decided to join in this forum. My activity in forum made me wanted to visit Islamic sites, and learn. Then I visited few Islamic sites that look interesting. However, instead of enlightened, I began to confused.

Islam that I found in these sites was different than Islam that taught by Islamic teachers in my place. Far more stricter!. In example, Muslims should always follow Qur'an and sunnah. I could understand if this was about ibadah. But in muamalah or non ibadah matter, should Muslims always follow sunnah?. How if I do something that haven't exist in period of Rasulullah?.

In one site I found statement that describe dawah in radio as against sunnah since Rasulullah and sahaba never used radio for dawah. In another site, Muslims should not establish Muslim organization because salaf never established organization. I also found an order for Muslim to leave fiqh because follow fiqh is against sunnah.

Another thing that confuse me is prohibition to imitate non-Muslims. Indeed, Islamic teachers in my place tell the same thing too. But what I found in these sites was stricter because that include prohibition to speak language that spoken by non-Muslims, and prohibition to use technologies that invented by non-Muslims. It confused me because this fatwa was written in English and posted in internet!.

I began to feel something weird when I visited a bookstore in year 2010. I found a good book about nature and thought to buy it for my children to teach them to love nature. But suddenly a question appeared in my mind, "Are Muslims allowed to care to the nature?". I remember non-Muslim people who active in nature preservation and I began to thinking if I care to the nature, it's mean I imitate non-Muslims. So I put the book back on rack and leave the bookstore. I 'awoke' just few meters after I left the bookstore. I asked myself, "What happen with me?. Why I thought like that?". But I decided to go home without buy that book.

I never again visit those Islamic sites. But I don't know why the silly thought is still haunting my mind and can appear anytime. Like when I ate noodle, I asked myself "Are Muslims allowed to eat noodle?". When I saw someone rode bicycle, I asked myself "Are Muslims allowed to ride bicycle?". It's happen spontaneously without I can prevent. It always makes me confused for a moment until I 'awake'.

I don't know, how could those sites affect my mind like this?. Even after I leave those sites for few years. Is it because my iman is not strong enough?.

To be honest, it sometime makes me think to leave the forum. Yeah, there was something that ever happened. One day when I was confused I felt like I heard a voice in my mind that order me to leave Islamic sites in internet, and back to learn from real teachers in the real world. But I feel hard to leave Islamicboard that I love.


Again and again my saying that it is due to lack of direct and regular contact with the Holy Quraan and Sunnah (both of which are found in a good tafseer of the Holy Quraan) is a general statement for all Muslims. I emphasize it because answer to every problem is present in the Quraan and Sunnah. I cannot explain every thing here but you will find it when you start learning The Holy Quraan which Allah made easy for our admonition. For e.g. you said about mu'amilaat that it may be that some dealing now would not happen in the time of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. This type of thinking is because of lack of the knowledge about the miraculous nature of the Holy Quraan. This Book is wonderful!!! It has solution for all problems and answers to all questions till the end of this world. The only difficulty is that some questions will be answered by ijtihaad and not directly. It is like (for an example) that 90% or 95% questions may have direct answers while the rest can be found by ijtihaad. For ijtihaad we must have thorough knowledge of the Holy Quraan. If you try to make friendship with the Holy Quraan, you insha-Allah may become a mujtahid. So I encourage every Muslim to understand Quraan, follow it and convey its message to others. But for ijtihaad in case of some unusual matters and dealings (mu'aamilaat) you must consult real ulamaa and even the ulamaa will do it by mutual consultation. That was the method of the sahaabah rAa. But it doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to read, understand, follow and preach the Holy Quraan and Sunnah.

Also it is very true that ijtihaad is usually not required because direct solutions are present in Quraan and /or in the Sunnah for most of the happenings and dealings.

Allah said in surah Muhammad verse 24 (its English translation is):

Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an, or are there locks upon [their] hearts?


This verse refers to the Muslims in particular, because it is the Muslims who are expected to read it. Allah Almighty used the word "yatadabbaroona", that is to do tadabbar which means to reflect, to think deeply in the verses of the Holy Quraan. So the Muslims must not put locks on their hearts, rather they must try to think deeply in its verses in the light of the ahaadeeth and the explanation given by the sincere commentators to know its greatness and beauty.


If your children are big enough, you should direct them towards the understanding of the Holy Quraan.
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LaSorcia
01-23-2016, 11:38 PM
I wasn't allowed to reply to the original thread, but it really interested me, so I posted a new thread here. That's what my response message told me to do. ;)

Originally Posted by sister herb
I have sometimes noticed that to here comes new members whose almost in panic ask like "is this haram, is that haram?". I have thought they are like those people described in this thread whose have read too many confusing Internet sites and now don´t know at all difference of halal and haram but afraid all they do is haram.

It´s sad.
I agree with Sister Herb, as usual lol. And with regards to what the OP said as well: So many people seek to get the rules right, but live in fear and forget to get their 'hearts' right. If you get your 'heart' (intentions, motives, thoughts) right, doing halal and refraining from haram will follow much easier!
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InToTheRain
01-25-2016, 08:06 PM
:salam:

It's easy to forget that when we are reading Qur'an and Hadith etc there is another beside us who is whispering interpretations into our Heart that being Shaytaan. This is why a guide is necessary.

Imam al-Ghazali (may Allah be pleased with him) had laid it down that the disciple [murid] must of necessity have recourse to a director [shaikh, or in Persian Pir] to guide him aright. For the way of the Faith is obscure, but the Devil's ways are many and patent, and he who has no shaikh to guide him will be led by the Devil into his ways. Wherefore the disciple must cling to his shaikh as a blind man on the edge of a river clings to his leader, confiding himself to him entirely, opposing him in no matter whatsoever, and binding himself to follow him absolutely. Let him know that the advantage he gains from the error of his shaikh, if he should err, is greater than the advantage he gains from his own rightness, if he should be right.
.

Even Allah Most High says that you will find amongst those that have been led astray are those that had no guides. You will find the word "Murshid" where it says guiding friend below in the Arabic Quran:

He whom Allah guideth, he indeed is led aright, and he whom He sendeth astray, for him thou wilt not find a guiding friend. [018:017 Pickthal]
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OmAbdullah
01-30-2016, 12:10 AM
Originally Posted by InToTheRain
:salam:

It's easy to forget that when we are reading Qur'an and Hadith etc there is another beside us who is whispering interpretations into our Heart that being Shaytaan. This is why a guide is necessary.

.

Even Allah Most High says that you will find amongst those that have been led astray are those that had no guides. You will find the word "Murshid" where it says guiding friend below in the Arabic Quran:

He whom Allah guideth, he indeed is led aright, and he whom He sendeth astray, for him thou wilt not find a guiding friend. [018:017 Pickthal]

The interpretation of this verse given here is not correct. The direct meaning of this verse as given above is very clear.


A good sincere teacher is good but it doesn't mean that a Muslim must follow him blindly. Now many shaikhs are very proud of their status and are trying to keep Muslims unaware of the Quraan and Sunnah. But this was not the method of the scholars of the past. Who can be a greater scholar than Abu Bakar Siddeeq and Umar bin Al-Khitaab rAa? When they became khalifa, they, both said to the Muslims: Follow us when we follow Allah and HIS Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, Don't follow us if we are wrong and then you improve us.


That clearly means that they encouraged the Ummah to understand the Holy Quraan and Sunnah and follow them as well as convey them to others. This is the real way for a Muslim. They didn't say that follow us blindly, our errors will be better for you than your right understanding. The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam has informed us about the scholars and imams of this era in many ahaadeeth and also told us about their horrible punishment in the Hereafter. Please read the hadeeth about them and don't follow them blindly.


One sincere Imam told us in a sermon that we must be careful about the internet, new books and present scholars because of many fitnas at this time. Here is an example from the time of Umar rAa:


Once, while in the Jumma sermon, he (Umar rAa) said that a limit must be set for the mahar of women. At hearing this a woman said, " ya ameer-al-mu'mineen, how can you set the limit when Allah said in the Holy Quraan, "But if ye decide to take one wife in place of another, even if ye had given the latter a whole treasure for dower, Take not the least bit of it back: Would ye take it by slander and manifest wrong?

This is the translation of verse 20 of surah Al-Nisaa. Here is used the word QINTAAR which means a huge amount of money or gold etc. The woman reminded the khalifa this verse and Allah's Command in it. Umar rAa said, I take my words back because I am wrong and you are right"


So no limit was set for the mahar of a Muslim woman. But Umar rAa didn't say to the woman, "Why do you have such knowledge of the Holy Quraan? You must follow my errors because they are better for you"


Now there are imams who make lots of errors and mistakes in their sermons, even they say words opposite to the Quraan and Sunnah. I wish to improve them in front of the Muslims so that they don't get astray. But I can't because now they separated the halls for men from those for women. This was not the case at the time of Sahaabah rAa.
Reply

azc
01-30-2016, 02:43 AM
In this modern age the scholars who give their opinions against the established rulings of Islam or if they intend to swerve the mind of ppl towards their new theories and ideologies which are contrary to the basics of Islamic teachings are aptly called as fitnah mongers. Their negative efforts are detrimental to ummah. We're to warn the ppl to fend them off.
Reply

InToTheRain
10-26-2016, 06:33 PM
:salam:

Originally Posted by nbegam
The interpretation of this verse given here is not correct. The direct meaning of this verse as given above is very clear.
Which is?

Originally Posted by nbegam
That clearly means that they encouraged the Ummah to understand the Holy Quraan and Sunnah and follow them as well as convey them to others. This is the real way for a Muslim. They didn't say that follow us blindly, our errors will be better for you than your right understanding. The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam has informed us about the scholars and imams of this era in many ahaadeeth and also told us about their horrible punishment in the Hereafter. Please read the hadeeth about them and don't follow them blindly.
Your concern is noted. I do follow blindly but that's because I have ascertained his superiority to me and other scholars in Quran, Hadith and Practice. Ofcourse before blindly following one must do thorough research... dig deep into the roots. As Umar(RA) said stay with them, travel with them to see who they really are. Other things to find out would be do they have a following of which includes many scholars? Have they ever committed a Major sin or are known to commit minor sins often? etc

Even during the time of Mohammad (:saw:) there were various lies created against him but that didn't make it an excuse to stop searching. In short the Murshids are True successors of the way of Rasool Allah (:saws:) . Allah Most High Supervised Mohammad (:saws:), Mohammad (:saws:) supervised the Sahabah, the Sahabah the Tabi'ein and so on... this is the rope which leads to Allah Most High.


(And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allah, and be not divided among yourselves.) (3:103)


The Khawarijites and Munafiqeen existed during the time of Mohammad (:saws:); even the Musaylimah wanted to share Prophethood with Rasool Allah (:saws:); all these fakes existed along with the real ones.

Originally Posted by nbegam
One sincere Imam told us in a sermon that we must be careful about the internet, new books and present scholars because of many fitnas at this time.
There have been many fake Prophets after Mohammad(SAW) and before him. Fakes will always exist and I am well aware of many of shaytans charlatans. No matter what shaytan tries those who want to find Allah Most High will find Him through means He Himself best knows.

Originally Posted by nbegam
This is the translation of verse 20 of surah Al-Nisaa. Here is used the word QINTAAR which means a huge amount of money or gold etc. The woman reminded the khalifa this verse and Allah's Command in it. Umar rAa said, I take my words back because I am wrong and you are right"
Actually Umar(RA) did not make a mistake but it is the woman who took it out of context. Also what you have quoted is only half of it; what of the rest? What if you have been basing your Islam on Half truths like this... food for thought.

Hazrat Umar (R) had once said in a speech: “Do not give large amounts (for Mahr)”. A woman objected to this and said that “the Quran mentioned the word “Qintaar” which translates to: a heap of gold or silver!” After listening to her, he replied: “You are correct, as it is not prohibited in general terms. Meaning if it’s not done for show, he has the ability to pay the full amount, and has the intention for paying it as well, and then by all means he should do so. But if one of these is missing, then it will not be permissible.”
http://www.shariahboardny.org/view-a...in-the-Shariah

How can Umar(RA) make such a blunder when many of the Qur'anic verses itself was revealed affirming to his Fitra; It makes no sense. But you believed he did! food for thought...
Reply

Delete.
10-27-2016, 03:42 AM
A'salamu alaykum, brother @ardianto. This thread is the most interesting one I have come across so far. I found many of your points thought provoking, and I'd like to share with you my perspective on them if you don't mind, in sha Allah Ta'ala.

But in muamalah or non ibadah matter, should Muslims always follow sunnah?
Each thing we do in this dunya should be for the sake of Allah, an Ibadah, because that is the purpose of living this temporary life. The beauty of the Sunnah is that we were taught the best of etiquette/behaviour/actions for every situation. And if we come to a situation that is not specified in the Sunnah, we can use our Islamic teachings to know the proper way to deal with it, in sha Allah.

But suddenly a question appeared in my mind, "Are Muslims allowed to care to the nature?"Like when I ate noodle, I asked myself "Are Muslims allowed to eat noodle?"
Islam is simple, not everything has to be deemed as 'halal' or 'haram'. We are forbidden from a very small amount of things in comparison to what we are permitted to do. Gaining 'ilm will help with this because what is allowed or not will become very clear to you. Just ask yourself, will it please or displease Allah?

One day when I was confused I felt like I heard a voice in my mind that order me to leave Islamic sites in internet, and back to learn from real teachers in the real world.
It is the best way, anything can be put online like you said and those who are weak in faith may continue to sink lower the more "knowledge" they attain. Learning from someone who is knowledgeable and trustworthy, and you can sit near and interact with, is a blessing.

The danger of learn Islam from internet is we do not always know the teacher who teach us because everyone can act like Islamic teacher in internet. Has no knowledge, but pretend as aleem.
Yes, very true. In any learning environment it is always best to ask questions and dig deep for the original source, which should ultimately lead back to the Qur'an and Sunnah.

"But dad, how could we know about it if we never saw Rasulullah when eating?"
"You perform salah like that because your teacher taught you like that. You teacher learned it from his teacher.
This isn't necessarily learnt by the teacher, it is all learnt from Ahadeeth. If a teacher (online or offline) tells you how to pray (or how to eat) they should provide evidence for it from the Qur'an and/or Sunnah. We need to ask for evidence for even the simplest of things.

The "Back to Qur'an and Sunnah" movement indeed controversial because it urge Muslims to reject fiqh that taught by fuqaha, and directly follow Qur’an and sunnah like sahabah.Ulama also remind people the danger of follow Qur’an and sunnah without guidance from teachers, like those people do.
I respectfully disagree with your first statement. When someone advocates following only the Qur'an and Sunnah, it doesn't mean to reject everything that was taught/explained by Fuqaha. Obviously, we must learn what the people of knowledge very mercifully taught to us, not blatantly reject it, but if we do see something that contradicts the Qur'an and/or Sunnah, then yes we must reject it. And the Sahaba radhiAllahu anhum did not follow the Qur'an based on their own interpretations, they were learned men and women and they knew the context and meaning behind it. As for following the Sunnah, they were so blessed to see RasoolAllah salaAllahu alayhi wa salam right in front of them, they had the ability to clarify everything he did. We do not have the ability. So my point is, we still must study under the people of knowledge, but not blindly accept everything they say.

Probably this is a warning from Allah that I should not laugh at other people ignorance because I am actually an ignorant person too but I don't know.
We all are ignorant in one way or another, it is good to get a reality check once in a while even if it hurts.

One phenomenon that happen nowadays is there are youths who prefer to learn Islam only from internet without guidance from teachers.
And this is very sad, indeed. May Allah give us all the opportunity to study under the people of knowledge, it is a true blessing and what you gain from it cannot even be compared to what you take from online.

Good thread, JazakAllahu khayr. I hope I did not type too much. And in all matters, Allah knows best.
Reply

OmAbdullah
10-28-2016, 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by InToTheRain
:salam:



Which is?



Your concern is noted. I do follow blindly but that's because I have ascertained his superiority to me and other scholars in Quran, Hadith and Practice. Ofcourse before blindly following one must do thorough research... dig deep into the roots. As Umar(RA) said stay with them, travel with them to see who they really are. Other things to find out would be do they have a following of which includes many scholars? Have they ever committed a Major sin or are known to commit minor sins often? etc

Even during the time of Mohammad (:saw:) there were various lies created against him but that didn't make it an excuse to stop searching. In short the Murshids are True successors of the way of Rasool Allah (:saws:) . Allah Most High Supervised Mohammad (:saws:), Mohammad (:saws:) supervised the Sahabah, the Sahabah the Tabi'ein and so on... this is the rope which leads to Allah Most High.


(And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allah, and be not divided among yourselves.) (3:103)


The Khawarijites and Munafiqeen existed during the time of Mohammad (:saws:); even the Musaylimah wanted to share Prophethood with Rasool Allah (:saws:); all these fakes existed along with the real ones.



There have been many fake Prophets after Mohammad(SAW) and before him. Fakes will always exist and I am well aware of many of shaytans charlatans. No matter what shaytan tries those who want to find Allah Most High will find Him through means He Himself best knows.



Actually Umar(RA) did not make a mistake but it is the woman who took it out of context. Also what you have quoted is only half of it; what of the rest? What if you have been basing your Islam on Half truths like this... food for thought.

Hazrat Umar (R) had once said in a speech: “Do not give large amounts (for Mahr)”. A woman objected to this and said that “the Quran mentioned the word “Qintaar” which translates to: a heap of gold or silver!” After listening to her, he replied: “You are correct, as it is not prohibited in general terms. Meaning if it’s not done for show, he has the ability to pay the full amount, and has the intention for paying it as well, and then by all means he should do so. But if one of these is missing, then it will not be permissible.”
http://www.shariahboardny.org/view-a...in-the-Shariah

How can Umar(RA) make such a blunder when many of the Qur'anic verses itself was revealed affirming to his Fitra; It makes no sense. But you believed he did! food for thought...

Wa alaikum salaam.

Your statement is very much mixed up. It is not clear at all. The extra statement that is given in your post is added to the statement of Umar rAa. This should not happen. When Umar rAa heard from the woman the clear Command of Allah in the Surah Al-Nisaa, he at once took his words back and didn't fix a limit for the mahar. This was the great quality of the Sahaabah. They didn't make it a matter of self honor. They believed that all honor is with Allah. They had the fear of Allah. Now also the Muslims must do the same. But this is not the case of the present Muslims. For e.g. look at the last sentence of your quote. That sentence has no clear meaning. Moreover the truth is that Umar rAa didn't fix any limit to mahar. Your proof doesn't say that Umar rAa discarded the words of the woman and fixed a liimit. That means that someone added these meaningless sentences to the true statement of the woman and Umar rAa's story only to make it a confusion. This should not be done by God-fearing Muslims. You should recognize such statement and shouldn't be mislead by it.


I am giving two examples for clear understanding of the things concerned.:

Mahar is such a thing that can be a lot according to the will and status of the husband. So there is no limit. Also at the time of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, a woman accepted only a pair of shoes in mahar from her husband. The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam asked her if she was pleased with it. She said, "yes". So that was the only mahar that she got. So it has no upper or lower limit. The upper limit is removed in the Book of Allah. The lower limit is given by the wife and the Sunnah approved it.


Second thing is the matter of honor. Concerning the Deen, we must forget about our self honor, must fear Allah and keep to the truth even if it insults us. Once Abu Dhar Ghafaaree rAa became angry with a black sahaabi (Bilal) rAa and said to him, "the son of a black woman". the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam said to him, "Did you tease him by insulting his mother? You are surely a person in whom is ignorance. When was it that the son of a white woman enjoyed superiority over the son of a black woman for reasons other than piety?"

(Al-Bukhaari)


After this Abu Dharr Ghafaari told this story to many companions conveying the whole situation, his own bad words and the exact words /lesson of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. He didn't think about his insult and trusted Allah. So even today this hadeeth reached us from him but he is Masha Allah very honorable Sahaabi.
Reply

InToTheRain
10-29-2016, 11:17 AM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Wa alaikum salaam.

Your statement is very much mixed up. It is not clear at all. The extra statement that is given in your post is added to the statement of Umar rAa. This should not happen. When Umar rAa heard from the woman the clear Command of Allah in the Surah Al-Nisaa, he at once took his words back and didn't fix a limit for the mahar. This was the great quality of the Sahaabah. They didn't make it a matter of self honor. They believed that all honor is with Allah. They had the fear of Allah. Now also the Muslims must do the same. But this is not the case of the present Muslims. For e.g. look at the last sentence of your quote. That sentence has no clear meaning. Moreover the truth is that Umar rAa didn't fix any limit to mahar. Your proof doesn't say that Umar rAa discarded the words of the woman and fixed a liimit. That means that someone added these meaningless sentences to the true statement of the woman and Umar rAa's story only to make it a confusion. This should not be done by God-fearing Muslims. You should recognize such statement and shouldn't be mislead by it.


I am giving two examples for clear understanding of the things concerned.:

Mahar is such a thing that can be a lot according to the will and status of the husband. So there is no limit. Also at the time of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, a woman accepted only a pair of shoes in mahar from her husband. The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam asked her if she was pleased with it. She said, "yes". So that was the only mahar that she got. So it has no upper or lower limit. The upper limit is removed in the Book of Allah. The lower limit is given by the wife and the Sunnah approved it.


Second thing is the matter of honor. Concerning the Deen, we must forget about our self honor, must fear Allah and keep to the truth even if it insults us. Once Abu Dhar Ghafaaree rAa became angry with a black sahaabi (Bilal) rAa and said to him, "the son of a black woman". the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam said to him, "Did you tease him by insulting his mother? You are surely a person in whom is ignorance. When was it that the son of a white woman enjoyed superiority over the son of a black woman for reasons other than piety?"

(Al-Bukhaari)


After this Abu Dharr Ghafaari told this story to many companions conveying the whole situation, his own bad words and the exact words /lesson of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. He didn't think about his insult and trusted Allah. So even today this hadeeth reached us from him but he is Masha Allah very honorable Sahaabi.

:salam:

1) Umar(RA) said "do not Give; he didn't say "do not ask"! Which means he wasn't intending to limit the Mahr to begin with.

2) Sahaba's often narrated stories which others can learn from. This is not related to others accusing Amir Al Mu'mineen and 2nd Rightious Caliph of forgetting the injunction of Quran when giving a Fatwa. Of all people Umar(RA)!

Also Sister Nbegam Umar(RA) didn't take back what he said but rather went on to explain what he meant by what he said. Maybe he was interrupted while giving the fatwa; i guess we will never know.
Reply

OmAbdullah
10-30-2016, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by InToTheRain
:salam:

1) Umar(RA) said "do not Give; he didn't say "do not ask"! Which means he wasn't intending to limit the Mahr to begin with.

2) Sahaba's often narrated stories which others can learn from. This is not related to others accusing Amir Al Mu'mineen and 2nd Rightious Caliph of forgetting the injunction of Quran when giving a Fatwa. Of all people Umar(RA)!

Also Sister Nbegam Umar(RA) didn't take back what he said but rather went on to explain what he meant by what he said. Maybe he was interrupted while giving the fatwa; i guess we will never know.


Wa Alaikum salaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,


I explained the things sincerely in the light of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah. The rest is up to you whether you accept it or not. But we must always remember the Day when everyone of us shall be standing in front of Allah for giving our account!!!
Reply

InToTheRain
10-31-2016, 05:44 PM
Just a thought. Can you imagine what would happen had we relied on the internet for the preservation of Qur'an? You'd get sites popping up left right and center with Ayats missing/added/changed here and there and before you know it everyones got a different version of the Qur'an!

Rather we rely rely on the preservers of Qu'an (the Hufaz); the Muhaddiths, Mufassirs, Fuqaha etc.
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