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TotalSubmission
02-11-2016, 03:07 AM
Hello, my name is Damhain. I am a pagan and full time student. I am curious to converse with other Muslims because a friend I made in college is a Muslim and it is the first time I have ever even had a Muslim friend yet alone conversed with a Muslim so it got me curious. I am very knowledgeable about religions due to my constant studying and interest in philosophy which Islam has contributed a lot of I should add.

. . . so yeah, that's it :D
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02-11-2016, 04:12 AM
:bism: (In the name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Welcome to the board!

There's a lot of sections in here, and you can browse at your leisure and participate in anything that interests you.

If you have any questions or concerns or want to satisfy your curiosity, feel free to create a new thread and do so, and we'll In-sha-Allah (Arabic transliterated word that means "God-willing") be happy to answer you.

Wishing you a beneficial and a generally awesome stay on IB,
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TotalSubmission
02-11-2016, 04:31 AM
Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Welcome to the board!

There's a lot of sections in here, and you can browse at your leisure and participate in anything that interests you.

If you have any questions or concerns or want to satisfy your curiosity, feel free to create a new thread and do so, and we'll In-sha-Allah (Arabic transliterated word that means "God-willing") be happy to answer you.

Wishing you a beneficial and a generally awesome stay on IB,
:D thanks. I am actually roughly familiar in how to read Arabic and am no newbie to Islam :p. My aq'ul (mind) is very well versed
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Muslim Woman
02-11-2016, 04:42 AM
Hello

Welcome here . Feel free to browse the forum and ask about Islam in related threads .
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emem
02-11-2016, 05:28 AM
That's nice. :shade:
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sister herb
02-11-2016, 08:08 AM
Hello

Welcome to forum.
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farhan
02-11-2016, 08:14 AM
Hi Danhain, welcome to IB :).

Looking forward to the knowledge you have to share :thumbs_up.
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GINGERBEARDMAN
02-11-2016, 08:58 AM
Originally Posted by TotalSubmission
Hello, my name is Damhain. I am a pagan and full time student. I am curious to converse with other Muslims because a friend I made in college is a Muslim and it is the first time I have ever even had a Muslim friend yet alone conversed with a Muslim so it got me curious. I am very knowledgeable about religions due to my constant studying and interest in philosophy which Islam has contributed a lot of I should add.

. . . so yeah, that's it :D
Can you explain a little more about your belief system?

What gods do you worship and how is this worship done?
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TotalSubmission
02-11-2016, 09:03 AM
Originally Posted by GINGERBEARDMAN
Can you explain a little more about your belief system?

What gods do you worship and how is this worship done?
Should I make a separate thread for this?
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GINGERBEARDMAN
02-11-2016, 09:09 AM
Originally Posted by TotalSubmission
Should I make a separate thread for this?
I'm new around here to, but think it would be fine to discuss it here.
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TotalSubmission
02-11-2016, 09:18 AM
Originally Posted by GINGERBEARDMAN
Can you explain a little more about your belief system?

What gods do you worship and how is this worship done?
I am a pagan which is a VERY broad and I mean very very broad word that pretty much encompasses the older polytheistic (or henotheistic) religions. As for me I am an eclectic pagan so I am not very fond of cultural traditions.
But to make it simple . . .


  • I am a hard polytheist
  • I worship numerous gods (primarily Sumerian, but it does not end there)
  • I worship through means of ritual, magic or prayer although usually it is all 3
  • I worship multiple times a day
  • I worship gods like Baal, Diana, Inanna or Enlil


Things you should know as well are . . .
  • I do not believe in revelation at least not in any Abrahamic sense
  • Although I am a polytheist it does not mean I view gods as equals (most polytheists don't)
  • I do not believe in divine intervention the way you probably do as well
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greenhill
02-11-2016, 12:30 PM
Welcome to the forum.

Nice intro to self! Hopefully you'll find us inviting ;)

:peace:
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lonewolf007
02-11-2016, 01:56 PM
Hey there welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy you're stay
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TotalSubmission
02-11-2016, 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by lonewolf007
Hey there welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy you're stay
Thank you, and I love your avatar
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lonewolf007
02-11-2016, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by TotalSubmission
Thank you, and I love your avatar
You're welcome mate and I love my avatar too lol thanks
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azc
02-12-2016, 07:51 AM
Originally Posted by TotalSubmission
Hello, my name is Damhain. I am a pagan and full time student. I am curious to converse with other Muslims because a friend I made in college is a Muslim and it is the first time I have ever even had a Muslim friend yet alone conversed with a Muslim so it got me curious. I am very knowledgeable about religions due to my constant studying and interest in philosophy which Islam has contributed a lot of I should add.. . . so yeah, that's it :D
I've some simple questions regarding your faith:1: How many gods you believe in? And Why?2: Which is the super god? And Why ?3: Do your so called gods quarrel each other in controlling this universe? If not why?4: Do they follow any laws? If yes, who made these laws?5: What are the qualities of your god/gods? Do any of us have these qualities?6: If any god of yours violate the laws then who punish him/them?Prove the above Questions with evidence.
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TotalSubmission
02-12-2016, 08:32 AM
Originally Posted by azc
I've some simple questions regarding your faith:1: How many gods you believe in? And Why?2: Which is the super god? And Why ?3: Do your so called gods quarrel each other in controlling this universe? If not why?4: Do they follow any laws? If yes, who made these laws?5: What are the qualities of your god/gods? Do any of us have these qualities?6: If any god of yours violate the laws then who punish him/them?Prove the above Questions with evidence.
I believe in as many gods as their are stars (fanciful for as many that have names). I am a polytheist from reason, there are multiple gods known, each distinct to a lesser or greater degree and each unique in essential origin.
The primary deity is relative to the person, pantheon or nature of gods at any given time. As an example I would point to the rise of Athena over Zeus due to her more desired qualities being more representative of man in Greece during that era.
Yes gods quarrel, no differently than angels and man. If they do, they do and it is not my right to judge. Everything is opposed to each despite their harmony.
I do not follow any laws, if laws were to be made the gods would have made it clear. No such god as far as I know has given man any kind of law or sustainable witness.
As for qualities: they posses the quality of being aware and physical. They are not omniscient, all powerful or omnipresent. If Apollo is present in the writing of men then he only knows what is in the writing of men. We as humans posses the same qualities. We know only what we can witness when we are present.

By laws you are implying laws meant to govern man. There are no laws to govern man and no laws to govern gods.
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azc
02-12-2016, 08:42 AM
Originally Posted by TotalSubmission
I believe in as many gods as their are stars (fanciful for as many that have names). I am a polytheist from reason, there are multiple gods known, each distinct to a lesser or greater degree and each unique in essential origin. The primary deity is relative to the person, pantheon or nature of gods at any given time. As an example I would point to the rise of Athena over Zeus due to her more desired qualities being more representative of man in Greece during that era. Yes gods quarrel, no differently than angels and man. If they do, they do and it is not my right to judge. Everything is opposed to each despite their harmony. I do not follow any laws, if laws were to be made the gods would have made it clear. No such god as far as I know has given man any kind of law or sustainable witness.As for qualities: they posses the quality of being aware and physical. They are not omniscient, all powerful or omnipresent. If Apollo is present in the writing of men then he only knows what is in the writing of men. We as humans posses the same qualities. We know only what we can witness when we are present.By laws you are implying laws meant to govern man. There are no laws to govern man and no laws to govern gods.
without concrete proof this kind of faith is flawed.Faith based on imaginations, concocted dogmas or baseless conjecture can't be accepted by any sane person
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TotalSubmission
02-12-2016, 08:56 AM
Originally Posted by azc
without concrete proof this kind of faith is flawed.Faith based on imaginations, concocted dogmas or baseless conjecture can't be accepted by any sane person
No it is traditions and assumptions. Myth improves the quality of man's life, it does not provide truth. Placing religion in a realm of truth is misleading, plain and simple considering that it holds no proof which you value so much.
My proof is the fact that wind blows, the sun sets and seasons change. I need nothing else.

You are also placing unneeded qualifications on religion and especially deities. Deities don't require laws, proofs or anything Islam has. They are not the same and don't hold the same standards.
Nothing is wrong with being different
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GINGERBEARDMAN
02-12-2016, 10:14 AM
Originally Posted by TotalSubmission
I am a pagan which is a VERY broad and I mean very very broad word that pretty much encompasses the older polytheistic (or henotheistic) religions. As for me I am an eclectic pagan so I am not very fond of cultural traditions.
But to make it simple . . .


  • I am a hard polytheist
  • I worship numerous gods (primarily Sumerian, but it does not end there)
  • I worship through means of ritual, magic or prayer although usually it is all 3
  • I worship multiple times a day
  • I worship gods like Baal, Diana, Inanna or Enlil


Things you should know as well are . . .
  • I do not believe in revelation at least not in any Abrahamic sense
  • Although I am a polytheist it does not mean I view gods as equals (most polytheists don't)
  • I do not believe in divine intervention the way you probably do as well
Interesting, so you don't believe these gods interact with you or creation, yet you worship them?
what evidence do you have they are actually real and not the from the imagination of others?
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TotalSubmission
02-14-2016, 12:24 AM
Originally Posted by GINGERBEARDMAN
Interesting, so you don't believe these gods interact with you or creation, yet you worship them?
what evidence do you have they are actually real and not the from the imagination of others?
I don't. No consistent evidence really backs the claims of potential existent god. Humans no matter where they have been have developed some concept of divinity and this conception whether true or false is used to authorize the legitimacy of kings, hierarchy, ethics and society as a whole. Whether it is true or untrue is irrelevant as long as it benefits yourself.

Regardless of ritual or practice I find it to be beneficial. I don't mix religious practice with science and claims of truth. That is what philosophy and empiricism is for.

If evidence backed a true and undeniable inherent god . . . I would then find it a necessity to give that said god due worship.

My attitude towards religion and claims of deities are very relaxed I know. But it doesn't make me an ***hole (sorry about the language); I don't believe in interfering with somebody's customs of religion, but I do believe in appreciating it if it is good and understanding it. I see no reason why Islam should not be deemed a wholesome religion which is the reason I am here talking to you ;).

If you can make a claim of a truly existent god that goes in the realm of empiricism I am all ears, make your claim! I would love to hear it.
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GINGERBEARDMAN
02-16-2016, 10:28 AM
Originally Posted by TotalSubmission
I don't. No consistent evidence really backs the claims of potential existent god. Humans no matter where they have been have developed some concept of divinity and this conception whether true or false is used to authorize the legitimacy of kings, hierarchy, ethics and society as a whole. Whether it is true or untrue is irrelevant as long as it benefits yourself.

Regardless of ritual or practice I find it to be beneficial. I don't mix religious practice with science and claims of truth. That is what philosophy and empiricism is for.

If evidence backed a true and undeniable inherent god . . . I would then find it a necessity to give that said god due worship.

My attitude towards religion and claims of deities are very relaxed I know. But it doesn't make me an ***hole (sorry about the language); I don't believe in interfering with somebody's customs of religion, but I do believe in appreciating it if it is good and understanding it. I see no reason why Islam should not be deemed a wholesome religion which is the reason I am here talking to you ;).

If you can make a claim of a truly existent god that goes in the realm of empiricism I am all ears, make your claim! I would love to hear it.
OK so to sum up, you find the common sense position for their being some sort of Creator, or creators to be true,
But you've chosen these particular gods, but don't have any particular reason to believe them to be more true than others other than personal experience,

If someone could show you conclusive proof of another God being true, you'd worship it, and follow that way of life, agreed?
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TotalSubmission
02-17-2016, 06:22 AM
Originally Posted by GINGERBEARDMAN
OK so to sum up, you find the common sense position for their being some sort of Creator, or creators to be true,
But you've chosen these particular gods, but don't have any particular reason to believe them to be more true than others other than personal experience,
I don't find it necessary for there to be a creator deity no. I wouldn't call it common sense, considering it would require proofs which go beyond human scope. I find it highly irrelevant whether a deity is existent in its ability to create in so much as it has the properties of existing. Going through the arguments of creationism are pointless since it would require fallacious claims on Weak Analogies, improper antecedents and Circulum arguments.

I could easily say that any said being created the world and even at that it could not be proven. You have to validate the existence of said being first then prove it has creative capabilities. I am not saying it can't happen it just isn't in the realm of evidence.

If someone could show you conclusive proof of another God being true, you'd worship it, and follow that way of life, agreed?
Well of course. I hold the plausibility of any god existing in some shape or form but I don't hold it to any degree of certainty. Certainty is key here since hypothetically a lot of things can or cannot exist.
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azc
02-17-2016, 08:17 AM
No one has the right to be worshipped except for God (Allah). This concept is the central idea that was proclaimed by all the Prophets throughout the ages. It is the most important creedal belief in Islam. The purpose of Islam is to call people away from the worship of creation and call them towards the worship of the Creator.This is where Islam differs greatly from most other religions. Though most religions teach that there is a Supreme Being who created all that exists, they are rarely free of some form of polytheism with respect to worship. These religions either call on their adherents to worship other beings as gods besides God (Allah) – though usually placing these other gods on a lower level than the Supreme Being – or they demand that their adherents call on other beings as intercessors between them and God.All the Prophets and Messengers, from Adam to Muhammad (may God praise them all) called people to worship God alone. This is the purest, simplest, most natural faith. Islam rejects the notion of the cultural anthropologists that the early religion of human beings was polytheism, and then slowly the idea of monotheism evolved from that.The truth is that the natural religion of humanity is to worship God alone. People later came along and corrupted this religion, introducing into it the worship of other beings. People seem to have a tendency to want to focus their devotions on something tangible, something imaginable, even though they have an instinctive knowledge that the Creator of the universe is far beyond their imaginations. Throughout human history, God sent Prophets and Messengers to call the people back to the worship of the One True God, and repeatedly, people returned to the worship of created beings.God created human beings to worship Him alone. The greatest possible sin is to worship anyone other than God (Allah). It is no less sinful if the worshipper intends to get nearer to God by offering devotions to another being. God does not need intercessors or intermediaries. He hears all of our prayers and has complete knowledge of everything that happens.At the same time, God does not need our worship. He is completely independent of all things. If every person in the world were to come together to worship God alone, they would not benefit God in the least. They would not add an atom’s weight to His dominion. Conversely, if all creation abandoned the worship of God, this would not decrease His dominion in the least. By worshipping God, we benefit our own souls and fulfill the purpose for which we were created. We do not fulfill any need of God. He is needless.
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TotalSubmission
02-17-2016, 09:02 AM
Originally Posted by azc
No one has the right to be worshipped except for God (Allah). This concept is the central idea that was proclaimed by all the Prophets throughout the ages. It is the most important creedal belief in Islam. The purpose of Islam is to call people away from the worship of creation and call them towards the worship of the Creator.This is where Islam differs greatly from most other religions. Though most religions teach that there is a Supreme Being who created all that exists, they are rarely free of some form of polytheism with respect to worship. These religions either call on their adherents to worship other beings as gods besides God (Allah) – though usually placing these other gods on a lower level than the Supreme Being – or they demand that their adherents call on other beings as intercessors between them and God.All the Prophets and Messengers, from Adam to Muhammad (may God praise them all) called people to worship God alone. This is the purest, simplest, most natural faith. Islam rejects the notion of the cultural anthropologists that the early religion of human beings was polytheism, and then slowly the idea of monotheism evolved from that.The truth is that the natural religion of humanity is to worship God alone. People later came along and corrupted this religion, introducing into it the worship of other beings. People seem to have a tendency to want to focus their devotions on something tangible, something imaginable, even though they have an instinctive knowledge that the Creator of the universe is far beyond their imaginations. Throughout human history, God sent Prophets and Messengers to call the people back to the worship of the One True God, and repeatedly, people returned to the worship of created beings.God created human beings to worship Him alone. The greatest possible sin is to worship anyone other than God (Allah). It is no less sinful if the worshipper intends to get nearer to God by offering devotions to another being. God does not need intercessors or intermediaries. He hears all of our prayers and has complete knowledge of everything that happens.At the same time, God does not need our worship. He is completely independent of all things. If every person in the world were to come together to worship God alone, they would not benefit God in the least. They would not add an atom’s weight to His dominion. Conversely, if all creation abandoned the worship of God, this would not decrease His dominion in the least. By worshipping God, we benefit our own souls and fulfill the purpose for which we were created. We do not fulfill any need of God. He is needless.
But why would such a God demand his creation to worship him? Would our worship not be best to fulfill the needs of ourselves and any such god. Would it not be best for us to serve any proposed good on the basis that there is a need or purpose of some sort. Why would a needless god care? Indeed a deity doesn't have needs but it would definitely have wants and desires.
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azc
02-17-2016, 09:41 AM
Originally Posted by TotalSubmission
But why would such a God demand his creation to worship him? Would our worship not be best to fulfill the needs of ourselves and any such god. Would it not be best for us to serve any proposed good on the basis that there is a need or purpose of some sort. Why would a needless god care? Indeed a deity doesn't have needs but it would definitely have wants and desires.
are you superior to your gods or vice versa?
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TotalSubmission
02-17-2016, 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by azc
are you superior to your gods or vice versa?
No, not in the slightest bit. I am the opposite and if anything my existence would be to serve the gods
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azc
02-17-2016, 03:56 PM
Allah swt guides who does he will.
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azc
02-17-2016, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by TotalSubmission
No, not in the slightest bit. I am the opposite and if anything my existence would be to serve the gods
a: what qualities your gods have whereby they are superior to you?B: Do your gods need you to serve them? C: Are you bound to any laws which compel you to serve them?
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TotalSubmission
02-17-2016, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by azc
a: what qualities your gods have whereby they are superior to you?B: Do your gods need you to serve them? C: Are you bound to any laws which compel you to serve them?
They posses extreme greatness in actions, deeds, qualities and virtues. For example Athena and unrivalled wisdom. Her absolute sense of law and order.

You can say your good has infinite wisdom but this would only lead to contradictions and paradoxes.
I would never set limits on what something can potentially posses but I would never profess infinity.

B . . .

Any would compel service from man. Gods are the highest known form of order and sovereignty this would only be natural for a human to profess worship to such a thing.

C . . .

I am bound by the nature of man to seek and honor rightful rule. This is why form governments and respect our parents
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azc
02-18-2016, 07:48 AM
In post #1- your a self declared a knowledgeable person but so far you've produced no knowledge In post #11- you deny traditions of other polythiests but bunch of rituals, magic and ways of prayers isn't considered as traditional?In post #17- you accept quarrel between your different gods but you've no clue who settles their dispute or what does their quarrel affect the nature. You deny any laws for man and your a meek and a lawless servant of your gods Your gods have limited qualities like your Apollo is limited ONLY to the writings of man, it means I've more qualities than your gods. In post #19-- you deny any law for deities, it means your deities are lawless.-In post #23-- you see uncertainty regarding True God but strangely you blindly follow your false gods with certainty-In#25-- your gods needs ''wants and desires''. What're they?In Post #30-- your deity Athena is expert in law and order to govern what? it needs ''laws'' which you've denied.You seek honorable and rightful rule? You mean it to ''laws''? Or rule others? Or be ruled by others?
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TotalSubmission
02-18-2016, 09:49 AM
Originally Posted by azc
In post #1- your a self declared a knowledgeable person but so far you've produced no knowledge In post #11- you deny traditions of other polythiests but bunch of rituals, magic and ways of prayers isn't considered as traditional?In post #17- you accept quarrel between your different gods but you've no clue who settles their dispute or what does their quarrel affect the nature. You deny any laws for man and your a meek and a lawless servant of your gods Your gods have limited qualities like your Apollo is limited ONLY to the writings of man, it means I've more qualities than your gods. In post #19-- you deny any law for deities, it means your deities are lawless.-In post #23-- you see uncertainty regarding True God but strangely you blindly follow your false gods with certainty-In#25-- your gods needs ''wants and desires''. What're they?In Post #30-- your deity Athena is expert in law and order to govern what? it needs ''laws'' which you've denied.You seek honorable and rightful rule? You mean it to ''laws''? Or rule others? Or be ruled by others?
But I never said any of these things, I never claimed I honor Apollo or find validity in scripture. You're using a bad dawah tactic and trust me, I know bad dawah ;)
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al-Andalusi
02-18-2016, 09:53 AM
Welcome, I'm new here too. Interesting to see a Mesopotamian Polytheist around, I'm more familiar with Hellenic and Norse Pagans myself.

I look forward to seeing more from you.
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azc
02-18-2016, 10:39 AM
Originally Posted by TotalSubmission
But I never said any of these things, I never claimed I honor Apollo or find validity in scripture. You're using a bad dawah tactic and trust me, I know bad dawah ;)
your views are self contradictory
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azc
02-18-2016, 10:41 AM
Originally Posted by al-Andalusi
Welcome, I'm new here too. Interesting to see a Mesopotamian Polytheist around, I'm more familiar with Hellenic and Norse Pagans myself.I look forward to seeing more from you.
welcome to forum.
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