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Krsto
02-11-2016, 07:06 PM
Can anyone think of a case where doing the opposite of a 7th century sharia today might actually be obeying the sharia better than doing it as prescribed in the 7th century? An example from the Torah: God said to not harvest the corners of the fields but leave it for poor people to go and pick. Today, a farmer in my country does not have poor people looking for food in his field. The poor people are holding a sign at Wal Mart. He should harvest the whole field and take the money he gained from the corners and take it to a poor person who needs it. If he doesn't harvest the corners of his field he accomplishes nothing. For him, to obey the Torah, he would actually do the opposite of what it says. Can you think of any cases in Islamic teaching where this would be the case?
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M.I.A.
02-11-2016, 08:00 PM
How bout he not harvest the corners of the field..

And get homeless people to pick it themselves.

Sooner or later he may actually pay one of them..

The supermarket may also have competition.


But yes, finding poor people is hard in this era.. Hire a couple immigrants.


Iv worked with homeless people, non of them drink and none of them do drugs.. Until they forget they told you that.


Cut corners off your field in this era.. And the tax man would want to know about it..

Unless you are the supermarket.
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keiv
02-12-2016, 03:41 AM
Is the example stating not to pick the corners so poor people can eat from it or so poor people can work for you and you pay them?

Either way, following anything other than the Quran and Sunnah would only be a step backwards for Muslims (and even humanity as a whole), not the opposite, as seen around the world today. The people holding signs at walmart are probably poor due to the non Islamic banking systems we have here. People make bad decisions in life but, I can't imagine how many families have been kicked out of their homes and into the streets from these banks. All the sex out there targeting people from young to old, all the corruption, all the non-stop crimes, and so on.. Implementing "7th century sharia" would be a good thing right about now, imo.
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crimsontide06
02-12-2016, 04:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by keiv
Is the example stating not to pick the corners so poor people can eat from it or so poor people can work for you and you pay them?

Either way, following anything other than the Quran and Sunnah would only be a step backwards for Muslims (and even humanity as a whole), not the opposite, as seen around the world today. The people holding signs at walmart are probably poor due to the non Islamic banking systems we have here. People make bad decisions in life but, I can't imagine how many families have been kicked out of their homes and into the streets from these banks. All the sex out there targeting people from young to old, all the corruption, all the non-stop crimes, and so on.. Implementing "7th century sharia" would be a good thing right about now, imo.
The people holding signs are walmart are mostly scammers standing there with their iphone in their pocket while whomever they are with, is parked in a car nearby waiting...
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Krsto
02-12-2016, 04:34 AM
I'm sure a case could be made for that but that doesn't really answer the question.
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Search
02-12-2016, 05:25 AM
:bism:(In the name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Thank you for your question.

For understanding the subject of Islamic law or shariah, I'd kindly request you to read the beneficial treatise Understanding Islamic Law.

Now, to answer your question:

Historically, the one instance I recall reading in which the spirit of the shariah was followed is when Prophet Ayuub a.k.a. Prophet Job (peace be upon him) promised to beat his wife 100 strokes when when he recovered his health for her disobedience and evil words against God when she asked him to forsake his faith in God due to the suffering they'd been enduring. So, when he recovered after he'd supplicated to Allah, “Verily, distress has seized me, and You are the Most Merciful of all who show mercy” (Quran 83:21), he knew he was obliged to fulfill his oath. So, despite the fact that he knew he had to fulfill his oath as shariah requires believers who takes oaths to fulfill it, he'd been feeling bad for she'd been with him all these years and he didn't want to repay her service to him this way and so God revealed to him in His infinite mercy to use blades of grass to strike her 100 times. In this way, he fulfilled his oath as required by shariah, the spirit of the oath, that is.

Similarly, in Islam, we're told to ensure that we eat halal meat. However, my sheikh (Islamic teacher) (may Allah bless him) had said that if a new Muslim invites us to dinner/lunch/whatever and even we may have doubt about this person having cooked halal, we still have to assume out of good manners that the food served is entirely halal out of adab (etiquette) rather than question the host. That is because the entire purpose of Islam, specifically shariah, is to teach and cultivate good character and manners. This is another example of following the spirit of shariah.

That said, I want to be clear and say that this does not mean that shariah can be circumvented, as sincerity to God must be at the root of all intentions and actions; shariah is the legal foundation of how a Muslim conducts his daily life from praying to eating to going to the bathroom to ablution to dealing in money that leads to spiritual prosperity here and hereafter. Without following shariah, a person will go astray. As an analogy, shariah is the roof and the walls of the house (of Islam in this case); and good manners and characters required of ihsan (excellence) are the beautiful decor and furnishings inside the house (of Islam). The purpose of shariah is to enable ihsan (excellence in worship).

Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) had said, “I have been sent to perfect noble character.” This is the main purpose of Islam.

When asked about the best of the believers, the Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “They are those who have the best character and manners.”

Hope that answers your question In-sha-Allah (God-willing).

Wishing you the best,

format_quote Originally Posted by Krsto
Can anyone think of a case where doing the opposite of a 7th century sharia today might actually be obeying the sharia better than doing it as prescribed in the 7th century? An example from the Torah: God said to not harvest the corners of the fields but leave it for poor people to go and pick. Today, a farmer in my country does not have poor people looking for food in his field. The poor people are holding a sign at Wal Mart. He should harvest the whole field and take the money he gained from the corners and take it to a poor person who needs it. If he doesn't harvest the corners of his field he accomplishes nothing. For him, to obey the Torah, he would actually do the opposite of what it says. Can you think of any cases in Islamic teaching where this would be the case?
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Krsto
02-15-2016, 06:08 PM
In depth answer. Thank you. If the purpose of Sharia is noble character, then a rash and destructive promise should not be expected to be fulfilled by the one making it. You said he fulfilled the "spirit" of the oath by using a wet noodle, but that's actually fulfilling the letter of it. The spirit of his oath was to cause destruction on his wife. I must ask, why are not the words of our Prophet Jesus taken into consideration? He said don't make oaths. Let your yeah be yeah and your nay be nay, in other words, if you say you are going to do it, if you have noble character you will do it. You don't need to swear to make it sound like you are really serious about it. Likewise, if you have noble character, and you make a rash oath in a moment of weakness or indiscretion, you repent of having made such a silly oath and you don't carry it out. Only someone of lower character would think he needed to carry out destructive promises.
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Abz2000
02-15-2016, 08:12 PM
It is better that we follow it in word and spirit with wisdom where applicable while seeking the face and good pleasure of God.
When the Prophet pbuh told his wives that the wife with the longest arms would be the first to join him after his passing, they took to measuring each others arms. It was only after Zaynab (ra) passed away first that they realised that he had meant the one who was most charitable amongst them. :)
Maybe do some reading on letter of the law and spirit of the law.
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Krsto
02-15-2016, 08:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
It is better that we follow it in word and spirit with wisdom where applicable while seeking the face and good pleasure of God.
When the Prophet pbuh told his wives that the wife with the longest arms would be the first to join him after his passing, they took to measuring each others arms. It was only after Zaynab (ra) passed away first that they realised that he had meant the one who was most charitable amongst them. :)
Maybe do some reading on letter of the law and spirit of the law.
That is a good case of the literal meaning of the word not being what was intended. That is different than what I propose, that as times change doing the opposite of the literal meaning when first given might in fact produce the results as to the purpose of the Sharia. Not leaving the corners of a field to go to waste for example and giving the extra revenue from harvesting the whole lot to the poor. In the beginning, when poor people could walk out to a field and pick, the literal application was the correct one, unlike the wive's literal short arms. Where I come from (Western USA), farmers live out in the middle of nowhere and a poor person could not get out to his field if he wanted to. Meanwhile, food banks are always within reach. Surely there is a case within Islamic Sharia where an original injunction by Muhammed would be "obsolete" because times have changed. Perhaps charging interest? We also have Jesus saying to lend without expecting to get anything in return. But that was in a day when people who borrowed had little ability to pay back and expecting all friends to pay back is not reasonable, except for the few who can. Charging usury was considered taking advantage of the poor. Today, making a loan with interest is a way to help people buy things like houses that would take half a lifetime to save up for and thus lose half a lifetime of building equity which will help later on. Today, a bank that lends at 6% interest for a house is performing a mercy, not taking advantage of the borrower. This I think would be a good example where lending at interest, in many cases, is fulfilling the intent of the Sharia to NOT lend and charge interest.
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M.I.A.
02-15-2016, 09:36 PM
..have I stumbled into a Christianity thread? :p

I'm kidding.

....but only just.


I guess the banks analogy sums it up perfectly.. It's probably an old profession.

And although a means for most,

Its the terms and conditions that are not merciful.

But I agree sometimes it's difficult to see the wood for the trees...

People need to learn how to change rather than trying to undo every brick before rebuilding.

Although I'm not condoning anything.
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Abz2000
02-15-2016, 10:19 PM
Refraining from Usury (riba) is a clear and unambiguous command which applies until the day of judgement.
Adding six percent interest is not a mercy but a usurpation and injustice even from what we (mankind) can see from our limited viewpoint, what happens is that land which is worth £1 per sqft is increased to £1.06 per sqft artificially for the one who takes the bait of interest and for the one who refrains, so the whole community suffers a drain of resources and on top of that, the interest is fraudulent and nonexistent to begin with and even the money the interest is charged upon is fraudulent and unbacked by solemn promise to repay zilch.
You must be ware of the game of musical chairs where the teacher suddenly reposesses a chair? How can a community pay interest upon currency that is released on interest via the banks? Won't they get arrested for currency counterfeiting since the central bank has sole priviledge to print?
Say if the bank has released a total of one billion pounds at minimal interest rate of 1% to the high street banks and the high street banks require the citizenry to repay the £1bn + 6% interest, where are the citizens going to pay it from when they can't print it - other than by the value of 6% of property which the banks will reposses from the community when the crunch comes and hand over the 1% cut of property to the controllers of the central bank?
The only other way they do it is to keep the music going so no one has to sit down despite the chairs not being there, they comtinue printing and releasing more money into the community - on interest - so that the community can repay the previous interest while the new interest is compounded and the system like a fart filled baloon continues to inflate until it bursts loudly. Then the biggest crooks cash in heavy, pull out, or pull out and short in order to control the demolition smoothly and quickly.
it's a sad scam, the emperor's invisible clothes just aint there dude.
worse still they have a mortgage and loan backed backed derivative market where they create more illusory money and lend interest and trade with the customer's promise to pay as if it's an asset that they're buying, sellling and loaning, making the fallacy even bigger and worse than it already is.
That bank of england's governor is a lying sh*t whose predecessors took pounds weights of sterling silver off people with the government (king and queens') blessing, and lied to the people because their oaths don't mean jack sh*t to them , do you ever wonder what the bank of england will pay you the bearer when you present the receipt bearing a solemn promise to repay five pounds on demand? Notice how they write five pounds in big bold letters and make you think it's five pounds when it's a signed document and receipt not weighing more than one gram of paper.

Anyways, i digress further and further, the basic point to make on the issue is that those who accept usury with eager hands only open their communities to such madness and ravaging, the usurers flood their propwrty and resource markets with mountains of illusory money, raise the prices of assets otherwise easily within the common man's reach, and then make it impossible for the majority to buy property without going to their abusers (the usurers) with meek outstretched arms as if begging for a chance. And it's a high likelihood that the money they'll lend them is probably the person's brother's or next plot owner's mortgage bond they deposited at the central bank.
5 people, 5 acres of land, 5 pounds of silver between them, it is likely that each acre would be worth less than or equal to 1 pound of silver, until the usurer comes along and offers them a 500 pound loan on interest, it would take only one idiot to ruin it by taking the bait and ultimately they'd be left with a corner reposessed by the usurer after the musical chairs music inevitably stops or the people running start getting worn out and falling over each other.

275.*Those who devour usury will not stand except as stand one whom the Evil one by his touch Hath driven to madness. That is because they say: "Trade is like usury," but Allah hath permitted trade and forbidden usury. Those who after receiving direction from their Lord, desist, shall be pardoned for the past; their case is for Allah (to judge); but those who repeat (The offence) are companions of the Fire: They will abide therein (for ever).
276.*Allah will deprive usury of all blessing, but will give increase for deeds of charity: For He loveth not creatures ungrateful and wicked.
277.*Those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, and establish regular prayers and regular charity, will have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
278.*O ye who believe! Fear Allah, and give up what remains of your demand for usury, if ye are indeed believers.
279.*If ye do it not, Take notice of war from Allah and His Messenger. But if ye turn back, ye shall have your capital sums: Deal not unjustly, and ye shall not be dealt with unjustly.
280.*If the debtor is in a difficulty, grant him time Till it is easy for him to repay. But if ye remit it by way of charity, that is best for you if ye only knew.
281.*And fear the Day when ye shall be brought back to Allah. Then shall every soul be paid what it earned, and none shall be dealt with unjustly.

From Quran, Chapter 2


certain things will remain constant. Other things, like wearing boots to prayer in carpeted or polished mosques, we don't do, because we use our good judgement and realise that the advice of the Prophet pbuh to pray in boots was in order to create the distinction that it was allowed though the jews had held it as forbidden, and understanding within us that we can pray with boots or sandals on, and we do so when we pray in parks or other outdoor or indoor venues while on the move.
It's rare that you'll find a Muslim who thinks that he/she must walk onto a mosque prayer carpet with shoes on because it was enjoined strictly by the prophet pbuh.
The interpretations are made seeking the truth, not just because we want to do it and that we find it profitable to do so.
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Krsto
02-16-2016, 12:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
..have I stumbled into a Christianity thread? :p

I'm kidding.

....but only just.


I guess the banks analogy sums it up perfectly.. It's probably an old profession.

And although a means for most,

Its the terms and conditions that are not merciful.

But I agree sometimes it's difficult to see the wood for the trees...

People need to learn how to change rather than trying to undo every brick before rebuilding.

Although I'm not condoning anything.
Last I heard Jesus is mentioned in many verses of the Quran and is often used as an example of good virtue and character. :)
Reply

Krsto
02-16-2016, 12:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Refraining from Usury (riba) is a clear and unambiguous command which applies until the day of judgement.
Adding six percent interest is not a mercy but a usurpation and injustice even from what we (mankind) can see from our limited viewpoint,


certain things will remain constant. Other things, like wearing boots to prayer in carpeted or polished mosques, we don't do, because we use our good judgement and realise that the advice of the Prophet pbuh to pray in boots was in order to create the distinction that it was allowed though the jews had held it as forbidden, and understanding within us that we can pray with boots or sandals on, and we do so when we pray in parks or other outdoor or indoor venues while on the move.
It's rare that you'll find a Muslim who thinks that he/she must walk onto a mosque prayer carpet with shoes on because it was enjoined strictly by the prophet pbuh.
The interpretations are made seeking the truth, not just because we want to do it and that we find it profitable to do so.
It may be a clear and unambiguous command but what is not clear is if Muhammad would have said the same thing in today's capitalist economy. Your assertion that what he said, that is, the specifics of his injunction, apply until the day of judgement, is speculation, and Muhammad spoke against speculation.

Don't you think that if a bank charging 6% on a mortgage were usurpation and injustice it would be obvious to the casual observer, and everyone getting such a loan would feel themselves to be usurped and an injustice done against him? Yet I have NEVER heard this from anyone getting a mortgage, not even when it was 12% like when I was younger. Most of us who grew up during that time think of 6% as quite reasonable. It seems to me you have conjured up an imaginary boogieman in order to justify a legalistic application of Muhammad's words.

Wearing shoes on carpeted mosque floors is a good example where you understand the intent, or the spirit, of the law, and actually do the opposite, though not in obedience to the intent (like harvesting the corners and giving the money to the poor), but because the law has become obsolete for one reason or another. Why are you not able to see that for a prohibition against usury?
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Abz2000
02-16-2016, 12:47 AM
I explained it to you in detail, you have become accustomed to some abuses, and to abolish the causes of those abuses weigh down on you, so you would like to feel in the right despite detailed evidence showing you the error, and chose to ask me to abolish the just and rational law prescribed by the one who calculates the orbits and sets the laws of motion, gravity and interaction. It is a basic psychological mechanism, don't worry, do some research, read up on the fdr banking crisis emergency act, the gold confiscation act. wonder where six percent interest on gold or resources would be syphoned from on a long term community or global level rather than short term individual, since it becomes 202% including 100% capital in just 17 years, and many communities pay for 25 years on long term mortgages, that's giving a whopping double the amount of house plus more to the usurers who invest fake promissory notes with every transaction. The global community would be totally enslaved and living in rented property within a few generations and that's not a viable evolutionary advancement.

Maybe question why neither your parents, nor your teachers explained to you what the promise on the banknote meant and why most people find it hard to believe that £1 sterling is actually 240 sterling silver pennies weighing a pound, what reasons they gave for requesting the people to deposit it, what interest the government gave on it (it was called a risk free government bond backed by the king himself and not a pound at one recent point in time) and why they still promise to repay it.
Much will become clear as to the teetering international financial system.
They are having trouble tapping into Muslim markets and syphoning the resources in such a way and many exerted efforts are at play under various guises as we speak.

The banks keep crashing because the nature of their model is set up as unsustainable, when they ran out of paper to lend, and gold to back the printing of more paper, they just got roosevelt to confiscate the peopl's gold by force and then lent paper to the people backed by the confiscated gold of the people, now it's not backed by anything and inflation can only rise to apocalyptic proportions so they excercise more and more control and manipulation on the market as a slowing mechanism until it again inevitably collapses, so they lend the banks money from the people which the people don't have in the first place, (bailouts) then let the banks lend it to the oeople on interest. It looks as if this is going to be the game changing crash because they put the market on steroids this time around, trillions and trillions of inflation is seeping into the prices of actual goods, and they're trying to create diversions, wars and practice resource looting from economues less affected.
Meet their illegitimate child, the war on "terror". It's all part of a closed loop on a huge, interactive stage and we're watching stars in their eyes, kim kardashian, and beyonce's legs at the superbowl.
Bread and circuses was the roman method now theres no bread and you're the circuses as you run around the chairs.
There are two inevitable possibilities as outcomes of this situation, repentance and establishment of Islam for a stable long term model, or total control as in an ultra ultra ultra communist society of workers and masters, where you get biometrically rfid chipped and currency is made digital, and every exchange and movement is monitored and regulated by computers so as to, sustain some semblance of equilibrium and restrict bulging and narrowing, it's been mentioned as a bad branch at a crossroads in revelation 12 or 13. Amazing that the
One who created you saw exactly how things would develop. We stand at the foot of a mountain and edge of a preciprice and sh*t about to go down. It's happening and we're actually living in it.


The NBER's Business Cycle Dating Committee has determined that a peak in business activity occurred in the U.S. economy in March 2001.
A peak marks the end of an expansion and the beginning of a recession. The determination of a peak date in March is thus a determination that the expansion that began in March 1991 ended in March 2001 and a recession began.
The expansion lasted almost 10 years, the longest in the NBER's chronology.
According to the*National Bureau of Economic Research(NBER), which is the private, nonprofit, nonpartisan organization charged with determining economic recessions, the U.S. economy was in recession from March 2001 to November 2001,
a period of eight months at the beginning of President George W. Bush's term of office. However, economic conditions did not satisfy the common shorthand definition of recession, which is "a fall of a country's real gross domestic product in two or more successive quarters," and has led to some confusion about the procedure for determining the starting and ending dates of a recession.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_2000s_recession

The Sword and The Dollar

Imperialism, Revolution and the Arms Race

By Michael Parenti

To many, the foreign policy directives of the United States seem bewildering and sometimes inharmonious with its domestic political values. Why does the U.S. seem to support foreign dictators? Why has it invested so many of its resources in stockpiling nuclear arms? Why doesn't the U.S. act as a force for peace throughout the world? In this probing, provocative analysis, Michael Parenti reveals the hidden agenda of American foreign policy decsisions. No matter which party is in power, the U.S. acts to protect the interests of large American-based corporations, in order to maintain valuable overseas markets and cheap foreign labor.In lucid detail, Michael Parenti examines just how these very private interests determine America’s public policy goals, from the impoverishment of developing nations to the building of an intimidating nuclear arsenal. What he discovers will surely be controversial and suggests that the greatest threats to democracy—both here and abroad—may emanate from within the United States itself.

http://www.michaelparenti.org/SwordAndDollar.html
“For a lot of these countries that are currently investing pretty substantially in defense capabilities, the lower price of oil is definitely an issue,” said Andrew Hunter, a senior fellow in*the International Security Program and director of the*Defense-Industrial Initiatives Group at the*Center For Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), a Washington, D.C.-based think tank.

......One deal that probably best underscores*Saudi Arabia’s rise and current fall in military spending power in the region is when Riyadh dropped a cool*$30 billion*in late 2011*on advanced jets and helicopters.
However, more than five years later Saudi Arabia finds itself squabbling this week with the Pentagon over a*$4 billion*deal for seven Lockheed Martin-made warships. Riyadh prefers a price closer to $3 billion......

.....Because most weapons sold in the Middle East come from the U.S., a reduction in spending is almost certainly going to hurt American defense manufacturers.
While the stock prices of the top U.S. defense companies are holding firm, that might change in the immediate future as orders from the Middle East start to dry up, according to Dakota Wood, a U.S. defense expert with the Washington, D.C.-based Heritage Foundation.“It really could have an impact because these petro-economies derive their primary source of income from oil and use that money to buy U.S. weapons,” said Wood. “I think we’ll see some*changes fairly quickly, within six months to a year, because all of these countries are selling oil far below the break-even point*and that won’t be sustainable for much longer.”

http://www.ibtimes.com/amid-falling-...w-down-2261855
War-Waging in the Middle East Leading to New Arms Race; Sending Billions of Dollars Our Way!

Mike Larson*|*Monday, April 20, 2015 at 4:20 pm

But one unmistakable side effect of these conflicts is financial — billions of dollars are headed our country’s way.

How so? As the*New York Times*noted over the weekend,

“Sale of U.S. Arms Fuels the Wars of Arab States.”

The story goes on to say
…“As the Middle East descends into proxy wars, sectarian conflicts and battles against terrorist networks, countries in the region that have stockpiled American military hardware are now actually using it and wanting more.
The result is a boom for American defense contractors looking for foreign business in an era of shrinking Pentagon budgets — but also the prospect of a dangerous new arms race in a region where the map of alliances has been sharply redrawn.”We’re not talking about chump change, either. According to the*Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, U.S. military spending dropped 6.5 percent in 2014. That leaves spending off by a fifth since 2010, in large part because of deficit-related defense budget cuts.
Again, regardless of your personal politics or your thoughts about the distastefulness of the arms industry, the reality is that the defense industry*here*is doing big business over*there.
That isn’t going to change unless widespread peace breaks out, and sadly, that doesn’t look like it’s going to happen any time soon.......
....
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/war-w...0#.VsM3tyNuvJs

China took another step to stimulate its economy over the weekend, with the central bank slashing its reserve requirement by a full percentage point to 18.5 percent.
That was the deepest cut since 2008, and it’s designed to free up more lendable cash in China’s banking system. China is also considering*financing assistancedesigned to help local governments deal with excessive debt loads.



But ultimately, those huge arms races just about temporaily hold the economy from collapsing whilst booming inflation long term, leaving them with huge military industries to sustain and reasons to blow things up, and wars to get involved in when others stolp byuing, and hence even more debt.


NEW YORK The U.S. war in Iraq has cost*$1.7 trillion*with an additional*$490 billion*in benefits owed to war veterans, expenses that could grow to more than*$6 trillion*over the next four decades counting interest, a study released on Thursday said.Mar 14, 2013

Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion:
$2,000,000,000,000
study | Reuters

Reuters › article

And with the following, they reassure the masses that everything is ok and not to panic, while big players slowly pull out and invest in [/QUOTE]

However, the bombed-out banks came off their lows by the end of last week, and analysts point out that all hold more capital – the key measure of their financial health – than they did before the start of 2008.

The results of stress tests on the major players announced in December by the Bank of England showed that they were all strong enough to withstand a downturn, and Threadneedle Street*said it was not concerned about the strength of the system.
Analysts have calculated that Europe’s banks are holding €700m worth of capital more than they were at the time of the last crisis
and have disposed of their riskiest assets. So financial strength shouldn’t be a problem, and no one is expecting to hear the likes of Barclays, HSBC or Lloyds report losses.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...ehman-brothers
€700m considering the injected inflation since the last crash, you do the math and wonder if it's less or more and where this is heading.

There is a very enlightening and engaging insider movie regarding the situation and the timely shortng called "the big short" (2015), warning to those not already desensitized and able to look away, it has some isolated scenes of explicit lewdness, you can dl it by searching for the movie name+3gp for a lowq version.
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Search
02-16-2016, 01:24 AM
:bism:

Prophet Job (peace be upon him) was a previous prophet from the scriptures before both Christianity and Islam, yet the shariah of his time demanded that he fulfill oaths, and as human beings it is not up to us to decide what he should have done as he was divinely guided to then still fulfill his oath by fulfilling the oath in the manner as described above.

Our Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) is a wonderful prophet and messenger whom we love very much, and I love him specifically because I look forward to his return in the future whenever he should come during the time of Mahdi alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) so that we can live in a time of miracles and bear witness to the destruction of Anti-Christ (Dajjal) and falsehoods and evil of the world annihilated in the face of the Truth so that mercy and justice and peace can prevail.

In Islam, we're told that to avoid making impulsive oaths:

لَا يُؤَاخِذُكُمُ اللَّهُ بِاللَّغْوِ فِي أَيْمَانِكُمْ وَلَٰكِن يُؤَاخِذُكُم بِمَا عَقَّدتُّمُ الْأَيْمَانَ ۖ فَكَفَّارَتُهُ إِطْعَامُ عَشَرَةِ مَسَاكِينَ مِنْ أَوْسَطِ مَا تُطْعِمُونَ أَهْلِيكُمْ أَوْ كِسْوَتُهُمْ أَوْ تَحْرِيرُ رَقَبَةٍ ۖ فَمَن لَّمْ يَجِدْ فَصِيَامُ ثَلَاثَةِ أَيَّامٍ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ كَفَّارَةُ أَيْمَانِكُمْ إِذَا حَلَفْتُمْ ۚ وَاحْفَظُوا أَيْمَانَكُمْ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ آيَاتِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ


"Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is unintentional in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for breaking deliberate oaths. Its expiation is to feed ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your own families, or clothing them, or freeing a slave. Whoever cannot find to do so - then they are to fast for three days. That is the expiation for oaths when you have sworn, so be careful with your oaths. Thus Allah makes clear to you His verses that you may be grateful." [Quran 5:89]

As far as what had happened with Prophet Job (peace be upon him), we ascribe only wisdom and goodness and best intentions to all prophets of God, whether we understand what they did or not. We do not hold them accountable to any personal standard as we know from our own understanding of their spiritual intelligence and divine guidance to far surpass ours, and therefore we avoid saying anything but good words of their character and characteristics.

Hope that answered your implicit question.

Best wishes,

format_quote Originally Posted by Krsto
In depth answer. Thank you. If the purpose of Sharia is noble character, then a rash and destructive promise should not be expected to be fulfilled by the one making it. You said he fulfilled the "spirit" of the oath by using a wet noodle, but that's actually fulfilling the letter of it. The spirit of his oath was to cause destruction on his wife. I must ask, why are not the words of our Prophet Jesus taken into consideration? He said don't make oaths. Let your yeah be yeah and your nay be nay, in other words, if you say you are going to do it, if you have noble character you will do it. You don't need to swear to make it sound like you are really serious about it. Likewise, if you have noble character, and you make a rash oath in a moment of weakness or indiscretion, you repent of having made such a silly oath and you don't carry it out. Only someone of lower character would think he needed to carry out destructive promises.
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M.I.A.
02-16-2016, 02:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Krsto
Last I heard Jesus is mentioned in many verses of the Quran and is often used as an example of good virtue and character. :)
yep all prophets are pbut.

it was an observational joke, thread title and some poster content.. and its ironic really.. although maybe it shouldnt be?

format_quote Originally Posted by Krsto
Don't you think that if a bank charging 6% on a mortgage were usurpation and injustice it would be obvious to the casual observer, and everyone getting such a loan would feel themselves to be usurped and an injustice done against him? Yet I have NEVER heard this from anyone getting a mortgage, not even when it was 12% like when I was younger. Most of us who grew up during that time think of 6% as quite reasonable. It seems to me you have conjured up an imaginary boogieman in order to justify a legalistic application of Muhammad's words.
could be worse, could have mentioned tax collectors.. maybe a bible joke in there somewhere but im rusty.


format_quote Originally Posted by Krsto
Wearing shoes on carpeted mosque floors is a good example where you understand the intent, or the spirit, of the law, and actually do the opposite, though not in obedience to the intent (like harvesting the corners and giving the money to the poor), but because the law has become obsolete for one reason or another. Why are you not able to see that for a prohibition against usury?
ok, this is even worse!

trade stone floors for carpet and you should definitely take your shoes off..and wash your feet often.

unfortunately there is a lot more to things than common sense its something to be aware or even afraid off, for instance the comparison between trade and usury not being equal..

although the price of goods goes up and down all the time..

i have no idea why?
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