Investment Gone Wrong

[hisnameiszzz]

Is this the section to ask for advice on an investment?

[strivingobserver98]

Is this the section to ask for advice on an investment?

Yes that's the one brother :).

[hisnameiszzz]

OK. So here goes.

I made an investment with a local business man who has a travel agent / estate agent and a few phone shops (he is Muslim and an Aalim so I thought he would be trustworthy. In fact, he was my teacher at Madressah for a bit). He has a thriving estate agent business and he seemed like a genuine man. Basically, I invested £30K 3 years ago. This money was sitting idle. My Dad died and left me some money and I had some saved up. I had it in a bank but it was useless to me as I was not making a thing back on it. Anyway, this money would go towards buying a house for 2 years (he would invest the rest of the money), renting it out and then it would be sold off and the investment returned. Each month I would get a certain percentage back as a return. The house was purchased for about £40K. It was a reposession and he got it very cheap.

The person I invested gave me the returns for 3 months and then started making excuses saying the person renting the property was not paying him and it would take a while. The agreement stated that if more than 3 months rent were owed to me, I could end the contract and he would have to return the investment. I tried pulling out of the agreement but he kept saying the money would come and please be patient. This carried on for most of the agreement. He would pay one month and then not the next month etc. I've got all 24 months written down in my diary with when the money was due, when it was paid and which months are still owing.

Fast forward 24 months, he still owes me 6 months return. I tried numerous times to cancel the agreement and for him to return the money but he kept making excuses and I eventually gave in saying I will wait. The agreement ended last January when he should have returned the £30K investment and given me the 6 months rent that was still owing but more excuses came. After threatening him with legal action, he finally found a buyer for the house and after a lot more pestering, he returned half of the investment. He made some excuse saying the buyer had gotten a bank loan and at the moment, he could only return £15K of the investment and was unsure when the remainder would come. I've emailed him and text messaged him but he won't respond.

I am meeting my solicitor next week and I am going to take him to court. Do you think this is the right thing to do? I know I probably should have done it sooner but I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt. Any legal eagles that can give me some advice?

Besides I really need that money back asap as I have seen a house which I intend to buy. I'm actually quite disappointment because the person I invested with is an Aalim and I had genuinely thought "a man of the cloth" would be someone that could be trusted but hey ho, looks like I got done over again. Oh and by no means am I saying all Aalims are the same. It's just this one who is an absolute crook! My dear Mother keep saying be patient, he will pay it back at some point and that it is wrong of me to take an Aalim to court but I am struggling to follow her rhetoric.

Thanks.

PS. This money was invested when the people next door was not as bad as they are now. They had one of their sons living with them who had young children so the door slamming and noise pollution was not as bad and I didn't really have any major need to move out then.

[M.I.A.]

Maybe the wrong move but ask for the remaining money to be paid back in instalments?

Make a new contract.

..but you need it to buy a new house? Go figure.. Cogs in the machine.

Nobody ever shows there best side apparently.

Why would you want to?


May Allah swt give your mother saber and lead you to a better destination.

Would you put money on it?

..I would most likely persue moving my mother to a better house.

Maybe you can ask if he has any spare houses?

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[hisnameiszzz]

Maybe the wrong move but ask for the remaining money to be paid back in instalments? Make a new contract...but you need it to buy a new house? Go figure.. Cogs in the machine. Nobody ever shows there best side apparently. Why would you want to?

May Allah swt give your mother saber and lead you to a better destination. Would you put money on it? ..I would most likely persue moving my mother to a better house. Maybe you can ask if he has any spare houses?

Thanks so much for your response MIA. I wouldn't trust him to make the repayments. He has messed me around for a full extra year hence me taking drastic action.

He has lots of flats no one wants to buy but no decent houses. I've already asked him that and told him to dock off £20K off the selling price but he no no'd that.

A house has come up for sale 3 streets away and my Mother is toying with the idea of moving (I bet you she changes her mind next week!!!) but I have decided enough is enough and I need to get out of this house. If she decides to live here, that's her choice. I can't worry about her and me all the time. Sorry that probably sounds awful doesn't it.

[M.I.A.]

Everything sounds awful sometimes.

Alhamdulillah. Hope ya make it.

[hisnameiszzz]

Thanks MIA. I love reading your posts. They are so cryptic and keep me on my toes. Sending abundant good duas your way.

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum ZZZ,


(big smile) I'm happy to hear that you've found a house that seems to be good for you!

(sigh) Yes, I've had trouble with a local sheikh on a monetary matter, also. He was recommended to me, and he is well-respected and gives khutbahs in local masaajid, and runs umrah and hajj trips. But he is not a trustworthy person.

I think what I have learnt is that, as it says in the Qur'an, we really should draw up legal documents whenever there are financial transactions, and that we need witnesses with heft, no matter who the person you are transacting with is.

I have also learnt that it is necessary to fight, sometimes. That patience and gentleness is wrongly applied when there is wrongdoing. (mildly) I do not like to fight. Frankly, I like to have good relations with everyone. (smile) So Allah, in His Wisdom, Decided to test my sabr (self-restraint) in a different way. I had to restrain my desire to please and be liked, and insist on my rights.

(smile) And I did get the money back. (sigh) But yes, it had an effect against me with some people. (pensively) But it also contributed to the opening my eyes, to discovering who are genuinely good people, and who are not. (smile) It is nice to find good people. And, given that our time on this earth is limited and needs to be used to its maximum, it is also helpful to know who not to spend your time with. (smile) As the Prophet (SAWS) taught us, who we spend time with influences us.

(smile) Anyway, ZZZ, I pray you will recover the monies you need to buy your house. And that the road you must tread in trying to retrieve it may bring you closer to Allah (SWT).


May Allah, the Firm, Strengthen us when we enjoin good or hinder wrongdoing.

[Futuwwa]

Threaten him with legal action, and follow through if he doesn't shape up. If you make any deal with him regarding payment plans etc, make it a written contract. That will make it easier for you to prove misconduct from him in court. Insist that you get to write the contract, with or without the help of a legal professional. That makes sure he can't insert any loophole into it you might not have noticed.

[hisnameiszzz]

MUSLIMINSHALLAH and FUTUWWA, thanks for your advice. Oh don't worry, it's all in a written agreement. I wouldn't have gone along with it if it wasn't. I'm surprised this person is not interested in doing the right thing. He must know there is only so much patience I will have before I sue him and take him to court.

I've waited a full year almost since the agreement ended and I am not waiting any longer. He could have re-invested the money 12 months ago and is most likely making a fortune on it and keeping me waiting patiently. On top of that, he still owes me 6 months money from the actual agreement.

I am also surprised he wouldn't tell me how much the house sold for. I had to ask which solicitor did the conveyancing and he only told me who after a week. I phoned them and explained my situation without mentioning any names and the lady was more than happy to help. Once I told her what the address was, she became defensive and told me to contact the person I made the investment with. I've done a bit of digging on Zoopla and found out that it sold for £55K and he has only returned half my investment. I wonder what he has done with the rest of the money?

Oh well. Roll on Monday when I meet my solicitor and get the wheels in motion to get my money back! I won't be negotiating anything with him. He has 3 very successful businesses, I want all my money back, each and every penny.

My solicitor mentioned that I could ask for interest payments for the last 12 months when the agreement had actually ended when he refused to return the money to me. Would it be Islamic of me to do this and then to donate all the interest payments to charity or would that just be wrong? Please can someone advise.

And thanks to everyone for all your advice and support. I just wanted clarification because I was unsure what to do. He is an Aalim after all and I thought he was doing the right thing, but clearly he was not and enough is enough.

[Futuwwa]

I wouldn't think demanding interest is haram in this case. You're not exploiting him, you're getting an indemnity from him for having withheld your money from you.

[hisnameiszzz]

I wouldn't think demanding interest is haram in this case. You're not exploiting him, you're getting an indemnity from him for having withheld your money from you.

Awesome. Even if I can get £100 per month that will be £1200. I think I already know which charities to donate to. A cattery and a few other organisations. Or I might just go on and a sandwich and coffee buying run for the homeless. At least I will be able to bring a smile to some faces through my troubles.

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum ZZZ,

(smile) Mmm... I question whether asking for interest is quite right. However, asking that he pay your legal fees, and any other actual loss you have incurred because of his behaviour might be something you could ask for. I would check this with someone knowledgeable and reputable in Islamic Law, if you can. I have read a little on punitive damages, and apparently, this is not something permitted under Islamic Law, but asking for compensation for losses incurred may be. Again, please check.

May Allah, the Wise, Guide you and Bring you some ease.

[hisnameiszzz]

Truth be told I would call it a day if he just gave me the original investment I put in in whole. I am not seriously bothered for the 6 months return he owes me and I am not overly bothered about the full year he has made me wait. Part of me just wants to call it a day and move on.

However I will see what my solicitor says. He was adamant that I should take him to the cleaners for the time he has wasted.

Thanks for your kind words and support.

[Futuwwa]

As a matter of strategy, if he has the threat of being taken to the cleaners hanging over him, he's more likely to be conciliatory and to agree to a settlement. If he did this to you despite having been able to pay the whole time, he probably thought you were conflict-averse enough to be taken advantage of.

[hisnameiszzz]

So I met with my solicitor today. He has drafted a final warning letter demanding the money that is owed (the half of the investment and the monthly returns that were due during the investment period). He then gave me an option to either a) ask for interest on the money that is owed which works out at about 10% for a full year which would be quite an amount and would be perfect to benefit a charity, or b) ask for returns on the 12 months when he would not return the money. Effectively, the agreement ended and it was him playing silly beggars and not returning the money.

I have opted for just being returned my investment and the monthly returns he still owes. We are giving him 7 days and if the money is not returned, we are taking court action.

Hopefully this will shape him up, the money will be returned to me without any further drama and then I can get on with my life. My solicitor asked for my cell phone and read through all the messages that he sent me, and it appears he has lied numerous times about numerous things. I had the understanding that because he was an aalim, he would have the fear of Allah in him and not mess people about, but hey ho, this is the 21st century we live in and I guess some people no longer care about being honest and trustworthy.

Thanks for all your advice and kind words.

Though this drama, I have learnt a few things.

1) Never chase after money and if it seems too good to be true, it most likely is.
2) Never trust anyone even if you have been given glowing reviews about them. It doesn't matter if they are an aalim or an imam, anyone these days could be fraudulent.
3) Always make sure to have a watertight written agreement.

[MariaOwl]

I can only agree, always do a written agreement. Always. In every matter. With signatures and all. And stamps. And eyewitnesses.

It is not only sunnah to write it down (as far as I can tell) but also helps to prevent misunderstandings, and in my experience misunderstandings are the no 1 source of trouble in any kind of business

[MuslimLawyer]

One thing we always tell our clients, is to avoid expensive litigation, invest in cost effective lawyers BEFORE you enter into financial investments.

Better safe than sorry !!

~ML~

[hisnameiszzz]

Hello and thanks for your post. What does expensive litigation mean?

My close friend is a solicitor and he is helping me with this. He is not going to charge me any fees but will claim everything against the fraudster. It seems like the bills will be big but I have given the fraudster so much time and opportunity to try and right the wrongs but he simply is not interested.

[hisnameiszzz]

So just to follow up on this thread.

It's almost 24 months since the investment ended. I have not had my initial investment returned. He still owes me north of £25K which is increasing daily with interest rates. I know interest is haram but he has made it clear he is not going to give me a single penny in returns for the last 24 months and I can't force him to, but I can extract interest off him which I have already selected a few charities where the money will go to.

I have contacted him a few times but I keep getting the usual excuse - "I'm expecting a few big investments coming up in the next few months". He has been saying this for the last 24 months and I am getting tired of it to be honest.

Apparently he has so much debt and is on various plans to pay all the other people he owes money. However, he goes on at least 3 to 4 holidays with both his families each year and he drives around in a very expensive sports car.

I've decided enough is enough and I am going to get a high court enforcement officer to pay him a visit. It's going to get nasty and I feel bad for it but I have no other option. I don't feel I would be getting any of my money back if I don't.

If this goes to court again, he will have to prove his income and expenditure and that's when it will get very very nasty (I mentioned both his families didn't I!) but he has brought this on himself.

Has anyone got any words of wisdom or advice on how this could be sorted out in another way? He just keeps making excuses and I am getting worried because if he files for bankruptcy before I do anything, that's my investment completely gone. Any legal eagles online?

[MuslimLawyer]

Your Solicitor friend should be right on top of this.
Maybe use a real firm to help ?

[M.I.A.]

i wonder how hes getting on.. been a few months now?

i reread OPs posts and its even worse that it was his inheritance that was taken advantage off.

...at times i do think this is a game rather than a test... snakes and ladders maybe?

OP met a snake.. the other guy a ladder.

no offence hisnameiszzz..

but there must be a way of realising if someone is truthful or not..

or follows guidance or not.. and to what end he serves..

o_0

[hisnameiszzz]

Your Solicitor friend should be right on top of this.
Maybe use a real firm to help ?

My solicitor friend has told me exactly what I need to do. Getting the bailiffs round to his house, but which one? He has 2 wives and 2 families?


If the bailiff is unable to get anything from him, then I need to go for an attachment of earnings. Again, it will be awkward for him. Which family will he mention and which wife is he supporting? If he doesn't turn up to court without a good reason, he gets locked up anyway.


Failing that, a charge over his property and then possibly force him to sell the house, but again, which one?


I feel a bit awkward for the person I invested with. He is going to get done over big time because he is a bigamist. I've given him more than enough options and time (2 years!) but he wants to play silly buggers.


I also feel upset because he is an Aalim. Of all the people who could lie or dupe someone, I wouldn't have thought someone of that calibre would be capable of something like this. I guess you learn something new everyday.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I need to take him on and the sooner the better.

[hisnameiszzz]

i wonder how hes getting on.. been a few months now?

i reread OPs posts and its even worse that it was his inheritance that was taken advantage off.

...at times i do think this is a game rather than a test... snakes and ladders maybe?

OP met a snake.. the other guy a ladder.

no offence hisnameiszzz..

but there must be a way of realising if someone is truthful or not..

or follows guidance or not.. and to what end he serves..

o_0

Thanks MIA. I thought the person was trustworthy hence investing the money but it seems like he is a big fat liar. When I have threatened action against him, he must have thought I was lying or making it up but enough is enough. I have to sort this out once and for all.

Thanks for your kind words.

If anyone else is thinking of investing, DON'T!

[M.I.A.]

thas right... keep it in the bank where its safe :|

no im kidding, you are what you eat..

lawyer up.

edit..

if he eats the lawyer then you might have to call it a day.

[hisnameiszzz]

It's sad but I am going to have to send some bailiffs round to his. Otherwise this could go on for years and years.

Is it wrong of me to claim interest off him for the last 2 years and then donate it straight to charity? I have no intention of using the interest, so my intentions are pure but I am unsure if this is allowed? Could anyone clarify for me?

[AabiruSabeel]

:salam:

Is it wrong of me to claim interest off him for the last 2 years and then donate it straight to charity? I have no intention of using the interest, so my intentions are pure but I am unsure if this is allowed? Could anyone clarify for me?

Interest is Haram, so claiming it and accepting it from him is also Haram. Charity is accepted from Halal money, not from Haram money.

You can simply claim your own principle investment amount and the profit share if there is any.

[hisnameiszzz]

You can simply claim your own principle investment amount and the profit share if there is any.

Jazakallah for your response.

The issue here is the person I invested with is playing awkward with me. He still owes me a fair bit of money from the profit share within the agreed investment period. The investment was for x number of months, and for each month I would receive £xxx. He paid for the first few months and then defaulted on all the profit payments. I kept telling him to return my money and he kept promising the profits would all be given to me, so with him being an Aalim, I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Fast forward to today, he still owes me about 6-8 months worth of profit, and most of the invested amount. The excuses keep coming and I am tiring of them.

He keeps telling me the investment is over so he won't be giving me any profits since the investment ended, so I wanted to hammer him with the interest. Like I said, not because I want to use it, but because I want to get my own back on the lying scheming manipulator. My solicitor and the courts have told me to claim all the interest back and not let him get away with it. However, I completely understand what you are saying and are coming from, so I guess deep down, I should not ask for the interest which is a shame because it would be a fair bit of money that would be going to various charities.

Oh well. Thanks again for your help.

[M.I.A.]

you know everyone is high and mighty when judging other peoples affairs..

but if you ever ask them for a bit more.. for a bit less..

you will quickly come to know the way of the world.

some scales never balance.

claim the interest.. as a stratagem of war..


because if you ever pick up a gun, they wont miss.


seems like hes hit you as hard as he can.


i may be wrong though.. i couldnt pop a balloon.


all i remember is being robbed as a child.

...thats how people "get a life" apparently.

feel free to pose a more reasonable response.

i still have the dents on my car.. didnt claim from that nurse two weeks away from christmas..

how could i?

id rather sit here and get worse apparently.

how are the neighbours treating you?

edit..

shares random retweet..

https://youtu.be/V1fMvLbE85E

because the world is an ironic...satirical parody.

probably.