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Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 01:07 PM
doesn't matter those who give eric h and disbelievers in general a speical treatment should leave it.

There's no need to be merciful to a disbeliever who's not Muslim, he's not a dhimmi nor does he have any alliance with the ummah

I would've accepted it if he payed Islamic taxes or was under an alliance

People on here should learn islamic history and Islam itself before interpreting their own emotions on islamic matters

he's a kafir @Eric H and there's no need to give him some sort of special respect

not being your enemy brothers and sisters but learn to hate and love for Allah's sake

Not saying we should hate on our disbeliever 'friend' but there's no need to have some mutual relationship with disbelievers.

Allah says in the Qur'an: Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. [48:29]


May Allah bless all of you and may he guide us.
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Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 01:14 PM
Also the brother who said I need to respect a disbeliever so I can gain back respect,

brother, he is a disbeliever. I don't need to kiss his feet in order to please him and show how 'great' islam is.

When you give disbelievers this treatment, they'll lose it once they become Muslim(Insh'Allah) and would think opposite of Islam. It's best to show love through your manners. No need to go beyond that.

And Allah knows best

:jz:
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Serinity
04-13-2016, 01:22 PM
:salam:

read 60:6-9. If the disbelievers are kind to us, we have to be kind to them.

And Allah loves those who deal with equity, as far as I am aware.

Being merciless right off the bad will bring people away from Islam. Idk about what the ayah is referring to tho.
Reply

M.I.A.
04-13-2016, 01:27 PM
Have I missed something here? I don't really know enough about people to make judgement calls..

My own assumptions seem more favourable than yours.

...although I don't like many people IRL.

Funny eh?
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noraina
04-13-2016, 01:30 PM
Brother, with all due respect, as Muslims we should be kind and welcoming to everyone, regardless of faith.

I honestly don't see EricH trying to convert anyone to Christianity or speaking badly of Islam - and I'm not sure what you mean by 'special treatment' either, I think everyone, Muslim or not, is entitled to being treated with respect.

I'm really not understanding the purpose of this thread.

Wassalam.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 01:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
:salam:

read 60:6-9. If the disbelievers are kind to us, we have to be kind to them.

And Allah loves those who deal with equity, as far as I am aware.

Being merciless right off the bad will bring people away from Islam. Idk about what the ayah is referring to tho.
Going to read the tafisr.

Allahu alam but it's not related to kuffar
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 01:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
Brother, with all due respect, as Muslims we should be kind and welcoming to everyone, regardless of faith.

I honestly don't see EricH trying to convert anyone to Christianity or speaking badly of Islam - and I'm not sure what you mean by 'special treatment' either, I think everyone, Muslim or not, is entitled to being treated with respect.

I'm really not understanding the purpose of this thread.

Wassalam.
Need proof sister. I won't accept your message unless I have evidence
Reply

noraina
04-13-2016, 01:44 PM
This kind of explains my point, brother,

BarakAllahu feekum

http://islamqa.info/en/128862
Reply

MuslimInshallah
04-13-2016, 01:44 PM
Assalaamu alaikum Umar,


(smile) Thank you for bringing this up, as it is a fairly common misunderstanding.

I hope the following may be of help:


Friendship With Non-Muslims: Explaining Verse 5:51

SEPTEMBER 7, 2009 BY EDITOR



Answered by Sidi Abdullah Anik Misra

Question: Could you please explain ayat 5:51? Does this verse mean that we cannot have non-Muslim friends? That would seem somewhat strange, because after all, men are allowed to marry non-Muslims. Why would we be able to marry them but not befriend them?

Answer: Wa alaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa baraktuh,

May Allah Most High reward you for seeking the meanings behind the verses of the Book of Allah, the Qur’an. Thank you also, for asking about a verse that has great implications for Muslims in the West, a verse that is often misquoted, misconstrued and misunderstood by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. In the verse, Allah says:
“Oh you who be believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians as protecting allies [lit. awliya – plural of wali, mistranslated often here as “friends” ]! Each of them are protecting allies within their own. And the one amongst you who turns to them as protecting allies, then he is one of them. And truly, Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.” [al-Quran, 5:51]

Right away, I’d like to establish that there is no problem with Muslims keeping casual friendships and cordial acquaintances with people of different faiths, as long as those people do not oppose or dislike Islam and Muslims, do not engage in or wrongly influence Muslims towards immoral behaviour, and are not unjust and oppressive to anyone, especially Muslims. This is established by the words of Allah Most High Himself when He says:

“Allah does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you due to your faith or driven you out of your homes. Allah loves those who deal justly. Allah only forbids you from those people that fought you because of your faith, drove you out of your homes and helped in your expulsion, that you take them as intimate associates. And whosoever takes them as intimate associates, then it is they who are the wrongdoers.” [al-Quran, 60:8-9]

This should set the tone for how we see verse 5:51, which has often been misused to claim that Islam orders Muslims not to have any sort of good relations with non-Muslims at all, an interpretation which is refuted by the above. The verse in question contains the Arabic word Wali, the mistranslation of which to mean “friend” without any further qualification or nuance, is what has caused confusion here.

The Meaning of the Word “Wali”

Wali, in the Arabic language, has a wide set of meanings, none of which are used to simply mean “buddy, pal or acquaintance”, the way that we would use the term “friend” in modern times to denote our casual relationships with colleagues at work, peers at school or neighbors. In an everyday reading of the Qu’ran, after reading this question initially, I came across the word wali and its various derivatives multiple times; sometimes it meant “guardian”, other times, “discharger of affairs or executor”, or “protector and ally”, and even “inheritor”. “Friendship” can be included in this, but walaa’ is a type of intimate and extremely loyal bond that is not used for everyday friendships in Arabic. Allah calls Himself a wali of the believers and also calls Himself by its derivative, al-Maula, which roughly means “the Patron”. It gives a sense of one party standing protectively over the other, or fully backing and sponsoring them.

Raghib al-Isfahaani mentions that the trilateral root wa-la-ya means that: “… that two or more things exist in such a way that there is nothing between them that is not from them, and this is metaphorically used for closeness in terms of location, relation, and from the perspective of religion, and of companionship, and of reinforcing aid, and beliefs, and wilaaya is to support [back-up] and walaaya is the encharging of affairs.” [Mufradaat al-Quran, al-Isfahani]

Even when wali is translated without qualification as “friend” for humans, such as when one mentions a “wali of Allah” – may Allah Ta’ala make us amongst His awliya! – it implies a closeness between the Divine Master and slave such that absolutely nothing foreign is between them; the slave stands for everything the Master stands for, nor are they out of sync at all. So it becomes obvious from this analysis then, that the term wali here is not simply a “friend”, like the ones we make with the people we interact with each day in society. Next, we have to look at the verse in its proper context to see which meaning of the word is most appropriate for the translation of wali in this case to arrive at the correct interpretation.

The Verse in Historical Context

Different verses of the Qur’an were revealed by the Divine at different times in the Prophet Muhammad’s life (peace be upon him). Many times, verses answered questions or commented on specific historical events, some of which were intended to give a specific message to specific people only, and others, through those specific instructions, to give general guidelines to be used for future generations in various spheres of life. In interpreting the Qur’an then, it is vital to understand what was happening at the time of revelation that caused a particular verse to be sent down (these occasions are called asbaab al-nuzool in the science of Qur’anic exgesis).

Many classical scholars of Qu’ranic exegesis (al-tafseer) have stated that this verse has up to three possible reasons for revelation. The one that most scholars seem to agree on is that, after the Muslims had been driven from their homes and persecuted for their faith by the Meccan pagans, they made their new homes in the city of Medina, where the Prophet (peace be upon him) established a constitution of mutual respect and religious tolerance with the People of the Book who already resided there. After the nascent Muslim community grew stronger and survived a critical test of existence with the Meccan pagans at the battle of Badr, it was brought to light that the political leaders of some of the non-Muslim tribes in Medina, their fellow citizens, had began to have talks with Meccan chiefs to violate their agreement of mutual protection with the Muslims and turn against them in the next confrontation they would have with the pagans.

Many of the Muslims at the time, especially those originally from Medina, had strong bonds with people from the non-Muslim tribes dating back before their Islam. In the tribal customs of ancient Arabia where personal security rested on pacts and sponsors, this became a conflict of interest, where at one hand Muslims had individual alliances with individuals from the other groups, but on the other hand, their own community faced a serious internal existential threat from those same treacherous contacts.

It was in loyalty to the community of the believers that one noble Companion, ‘Ubadah ibn Samit (may Allah be pleased with him), publically cancelled all of his personal alliances, while the leader of the hypocrites, Abdullah ibn Ubayy, who himself was not inwardly loyal to the Muslims but pretended to be one of them, declared that he would not cancel his alliances with people threatening his community, since if the Muslims ever lost to their enemies, his personal ties would save him from any persecution while his people could suffer. It was during this display of loyalty and reliance in Allah, versus a show of fickleness and hypocrisy, that Allah Most High revealed this verse.
It was not due to the threatening group being Christian or Jewish in themselves that the prohibition came, as Muslims had far more enmity with Meccan pagans and the fact that the treacherous tribes were “People of the Book”, with a common God and shared spiritual history, actually allowed Muslims to feel closer to them and establish agreements and residence with them initially. However, groups in the past were divided clearly on the basis of religious affiliation, and so in accordance with the political reality at that time and place, the verse specified those two religions to denote the tribes who identified themselves as such. The verse also goes on to say that the people of those two groups always support and advocate for their own people, so the budding Muslim community should also support and advocate for each other rather than searching for help outside first.

Conclusions and Contemporary Relevance

For brevity, we have sufficed with only one of the speculated reasons for revelation, because the others all revolve around similar scenarios (see tafseers of al-Baghawi, al-Shaukani, and al-Tabari for details). It is clear then, that the term wali should be translated as “protecting allies” in this specific case, and not to be left simply as “friend”, giving the impression that Muslims in the West should be isolationists who cannot have cordial relationships with the non-Muslims in their own societies. Rather, in light of the second verse quoted above, Muslims can and should make friendships with people who are positive towards them and supportive of their right and desire to follow their faith.

Although some scholars reported a difference of opinion on whether this verse was only for that specific incident or a general guidance for all times (see al-Tabari and al-Baghawi), it has much relevance to Muslims in the West today, though not in the context of enmity or hostility towards any religious group. The verse encourages Muslims to support one another in establishing their communities without relying on others, and to advocate for their own rights and causes within civil society rather than having other religious groups, out of the goodness of their intention to help a minority community, do advocating for them, as it goes without saying that it will be according to other people’s religious views and that it wouldn’t allow for Muslims to develop community-building skills. It also tells Muslims not to take the patronage of other religious groups to work against other Muslim groups for worldly gains, and to prefer the benefit of the community over one’s own temporary benefits.

Lastly, and also significantly for young Muslims as they struggle to balance between religious commitment and their roles in society, other verses (especially the ones following 5:51) do highlight the importance of choosing friends wisely. It would be very apologetic and academically dishonest to deny that the Qur’an calls upon us to seek out the best of company for ourselves, spiritually and otherwise, and that it lays emphasis on the fact that the closest and most intimate friendships should be with people who love Allah, bring you closer to Him, and do not take good actions as something unimportant. The Prophet (peace be upon him) has said, “A man is on the deen of his close companion, so let each of you watch who they make close friendships with [or, who they mix with].” (Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi and Ahmad)

So while one’s suhba, or close companionship, has the greatest effect on one’s own orientation and the majority and closest of one’s friends should be those who one will benefit from both in this life and the Hereafter, this does not preclude maintaining cordial and beneficial friendships with good people from other faiths. After all, how many amongst us have been guided to the light of Islam just through watching the beautiful conduct of a Muslim friend? Allah knows best, and all praises are to Him.

Wasalaam,
Abdullah Misra

Checked & Approved by Faraz Rabbani

Source: http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2009/...ing-verse-551/

Reply

noraina
04-13-2016, 01:45 PM
JazakAllah khayr sister, this is a better explanation :)
Reply

Serinity
04-13-2016, 01:57 PM
I think it is ok to be friends with disbelievers aslong as they are not enemies to Islam, or cause you to become like them etc.

We have to have some sort of communications.

May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
JazakAllah khayr sister, this is a better explanation :)
format_quote Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum Umar,


(smile) Thank you for bringing this up, as it is a fairly common misunderstanding.

I hope the following may be of help:


Friendship With Non-Muslims: Explaining Verse 5:51

SEPTEMBER 7, 2009 BY EDITOR



Answered by Sidi Abdullah Anik Misra

Question: Could you please explain ayat 5:51? Does this verse mean that we cannot have non-Muslim friends? That would seem somewhat strange, because after all, men are allowed to marry non-Muslims. Why would we be able to marry them but not befriend them?

Answer: Wa alaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa baraktuh,

May Allah Most High reward you for seeking the meanings behind the verses of the Book of Allah, the Qur’an. Thank you also, for asking about a verse that has great implications for Muslims in the West, a verse that is often misquoted, misconstrued and misunderstood by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. In the verse, Allah says:
“Oh you who be believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians as protecting allies [lit. awliya – plural of wali, mistranslated often here as “friends” ]! Each of them are protecting allies within their own. And the one amongst you who turns to them as protecting allies, then he is one of them. And truly, Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.” [al-Quran, 5:51]

Right away, I’d like to establish that there is no problem with Muslims keeping casual friendships and cordial acquaintances with people of different faiths, as long as those people do not oppose or dislike Islam and Muslims, do not engage in or wrongly influence Muslims towards immoral behaviour, and are not unjust and oppressive to anyone, especially Muslims. This is established by the words of Allah Most High Himself when He says:

“Allah does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you due to your faith or driven you out of your homes. Allah loves those who deal justly. Allah only forbids you from those people that fought you because of your faith, drove you out of your homes and helped in your expulsion, that you take them as intimate associates. And whosoever takes them as intimate associates, then it is they who are the wrongdoers.” [al-Quran, 60:8-9]

This should set the tone for how we see verse 5:51, which has often been misused to claim that Islam orders Muslims not to have any sort of good relations with non-Muslims at all, an interpretation which is refuted by the above. The verse in question contains the Arabic word Wali, the mistranslation of which to mean “friend” without any further qualification or nuance, is what has caused confusion here.

The Meaning of the Word “Wali”

Wali, in the Arabic language, has a wide set of meanings, none of which are used to simply mean “buddy, pal or acquaintance”, the way that we would use the term “friend” in modern times to denote our casual relationships with colleagues at work, peers at school or neighbors. In an everyday reading of the Qu’ran, after reading this question initially, I came across the word wali and its various derivatives multiple times; sometimes it meant “guardian”, other times, “discharger of affairs or executor”, or “protector and ally”, and even “inheritor”. “Friendship” can be included in this, but walaa’ is a type of intimate and extremely loyal bond that is not used for everyday friendships in Arabic. Allah calls Himself a wali of the believers and also calls Himself by its derivative, al-Maula, which roughly means “the Patron”. It gives a sense of one party standing protectively over the other, or fully backing and sponsoring them.

Raghib al-Isfahaani mentions that the trilateral root wa-la-ya means that: “… that two or more things exist in such a way that there is nothing between them that is not from them, and this is metaphorically used for closeness in terms of location, relation, and from the perspective of religion, and of companionship, and of reinforcing aid, and beliefs, and wilaaya is to support [back-up] and walaaya is the encharging of affairs.” [Mufradaat al-Quran, al-Isfahani]

Even when wali is translated without qualification as “friend” for humans, such as when one mentions a “wali of Allah” – may Allah Ta’ala make us amongst His awliya! – it implies a closeness between the Divine Master and slave such that absolutely nothing foreign is between them; the slave stands for everything the Master stands for, nor are they out of sync at all. So it becomes obvious from this analysis then, that the term wali here is not simply a “friend”, like the ones we make with the people we interact with each day in society. Next, we have to look at the verse in its proper context to see which meaning of the word is most appropriate for the translation of wali in this case to arrive at the correct interpretation.

The Verse in Historical Context

Different verses of the Qur’an were revealed by the Divine at different times in the Prophet Muhammad’s life (peace be upon him). Many times, verses answered questions or commented on specific historical events, some of which were intended to give a specific message to specific people only, and others, through those specific instructions, to give general guidelines to be used for future generations in various spheres of life. In interpreting the Qur’an then, it is vital to understand what was happening at the time of revelation that caused a particular verse to be sent down (these occasions are called asbaab al-nuzool in the science of Qur’anic exgesis).

Many classical scholars of Qu’ranic exegesis (al-tafseer) have stated that this verse has up to three possible reasons for revelation. The one that most scholars seem to agree on is that, after the Muslims had been driven from their homes and persecuted for their faith by the Meccan pagans, they made their new homes in the city of Medina, where the Prophet (peace be upon him) established a constitution of mutual respect and religious tolerance with the People of the Book who already resided there. After the nascent Muslim community grew stronger and survived a critical test of existence with the Meccan pagans at the battle of Badr, it was brought to light that the political leaders of some of the non-Muslim tribes in Medina, their fellow citizens, had began to have talks with Meccan chiefs to violate their agreement of mutual protection with the Muslims and turn against them in the next confrontation they would have with the pagans.

Many of the Muslims at the time, especially those originally from Medina, had strong bonds with people from the non-Muslim tribes dating back before their Islam. In the tribal customs of ancient Arabia where personal security rested on pacts and sponsors, this became a conflict of interest, where at one hand Muslims had individual alliances with individuals from the other groups, but on the other hand, their own community faced a serious internal existential threat from those same treacherous contacts.

It was in loyalty to the community of the believers that one noble Companion, ‘Ubadah ibn Samit (may Allah be pleased with him), publically cancelled all of his personal alliances, while the leader of the hypocrites, Abdullah ibn Ubayy, who himself was not inwardly loyal to the Muslims but pretended to be one of them, declared that he would not cancel his alliances with people threatening his community, since if the Muslims ever lost to their enemies, his personal ties would save him from any persecution while his people could suffer. It was during this display of loyalty and reliance in Allah, versus a show of fickleness and hypocrisy, that Allah Most High revealed this verse.
It was not due to the threatening group being Christian or Jewish in themselves that the prohibition came, as Muslims had far more enmity with Meccan pagans and the fact that the treacherous tribes were “People of the Book”, with a common God and shared spiritual history, actually allowed Muslims to feel closer to them and establish agreements and residence with them initially. However, groups in the past were divided clearly on the basis of religious affiliation, and so in accordance with the political reality at that time and place, the verse specified those two religions to denote the tribes who identified themselves as such. The verse also goes on to say that the people of those two groups always support and advocate for their own people, so the budding Muslim community should also support and advocate for each other rather than searching for help outside first.

Conclusions and Contemporary Relevance

For brevity, we have sufficed with only one of the speculated reasons for revelation, because the others all revolve around similar scenarios (see tafseers of al-Baghawi, al-Shaukani, and al-Tabari for details). It is clear then, that the term wali should be translated as “protecting allies” in this specific case, and not to be left simply as “friend”, giving the impression that Muslims in the West should be isolationists who cannot have cordial relationships with the non-Muslims in their own societies. Rather, in light of the second verse quoted above, Muslims can and should make friendships with people who are positive towards them and supportive of their right and desire to follow their faith.

Although some scholars reported a difference of opinion on whether this verse was only for that specific incident or a general guidance for all times (see al-Tabari and al-Baghawi), it has much relevance to Muslims in the West today, though not in the context of enmity or hostility towards any religious group. The verse encourages Muslims to support one another in establishing their communities without relying on others, and to advocate for their own rights and causes within civil society rather than having other religious groups, out of the goodness of their intention to help a minority community, do advocating for them, as it goes without saying that it will be according to other people’s religious views and that it wouldn’t allow for Muslims to develop community-building skills. It also tells Muslims not to take the patronage of other religious groups to work against other Muslim groups for worldly gains, and to prefer the benefit of the community over one’s own temporary benefits.

Lastly, and also significantly for young Muslims as they struggle to balance between religious commitment and their roles in society, other verses (especially the ones following 5:51) do highlight the importance of choosing friends wisely. It would be very apologetic and academically dishonest to deny that the Qur’an calls upon us to seek out the best of company for ourselves, spiritually and otherwise, and that it lays emphasis on the fact that the closest and most intimate friendships should be with people who love Allah, bring you closer to Him, and do not take good actions as something unimportant. The Prophet (peace be upon him) has said, “A man is on the deen of his close companion, so let each of you watch who they make close friendships with [or, who they mix with].” (Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi and Ahmad)

So while one’s suhba, or close companionship, has the greatest effect on one’s own orientation and the majority and closest of one’s friends should be those who one will benefit from both in this life and the Hereafter, this does not preclude maintaining cordial and beneficial friendships with good people from other faiths. After all, how many amongst us have been guided to the light of Islam just through watching the beautiful conduct of a Muslim friend? Allah knows best, and all praises are to Him.

Wasalaam,
Abdullah Misra

Checked & Approved by Faraz Rabbani

Source: http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2009/...ing-verse-551/
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
I think it is ok to be friends with disbelievers aslong as they are not enemies to Islam, or cause you to become like them etc.

We have to have some sort of communications.

May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.
Praise be to Allaah.Firstly: Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)”[al-Maa’idah 5:51] Shaykh al-Shanqeeti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: In this verse Allaah tells us that whoever takes the Jews and Christians as friends is one of them because of his taking them as friends. Elsewhere Allaah states that taking them as friends incurs the wrath of Allaah and His eternal punishment, and that if the one who takes them as friends was a true believer he would not have taken them as friends. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “You see many of them taking the disbelievers as their Awliyaa’ (protectors and helpers). Evil indeed is that which their ownselves have sent forward before them; for that (reason) Allaah’s Wrath fell upon them, and in torment they will abide.81. And had they believed in Allaah, and in the Prophet (Muhammad) and in what has been revealed to him, never would they have taken them (the disbelievers) as Awliyaa’ (protectors and helpers); but many of them are the Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)”[al-Maa’idah 5:80-81] Elsewhere Allaah forbids taking them as friends and explains the reason for that, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): “O you who believe! Take not as friends the people who incurred the Wrath of Allaah (i.e. the Jews). Surely, they have despaired of (receiving any good in) the Hereafter, just as the disbelievers have despaired of those (buried) in graves (that they will not be resurrected on the Day of Resurrection)”[al-Mumtahanah 60:13] In another verse Allaah explains that this is so long as they are not taken as friends because of fear or taqiyah (i.e., being friendly with them in order to avoid harm); if that is the case then the one who does that is excused. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Awliyaa’ (supporters, helpers) instead of the believers, and whoever does that, will never be helped by Allaah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them”[Aal ‘Imraan 3:28] This verse explains all the verses quoted above which forbid taking the kaafirs as friends in general terms. What that refers to is in cases where one has a choice, but in cases of fear and taqiyah it is permissible to make friends with them, as much as is essential to protect oneself against their evil. That is subject to the condition that one’s faith should not be affected by that friendship and the one who is behaves in that manner out of necessity is not one who behaves in that manner out of choice. It may be understood from the apparent meaning of these verses that the one who deliberately takes the kuffaar as friends by choice and because he likes them, is one of them. End quote. Adwa’ al-Bayaan, 2/98,99 One of the forms of making friends with the kaafirs which is forbidden is taking them as friends and companions, mixing with them and eating and playing with them. In the answer to question no. 10342 we have quoted Shaykh Ibn Baaz as saying: Eating with a kaafir is not haraam if it is necessary to do so, or if that serves some shar’i interest. But they should not be taken as friends, so you should not eat with them for no shar’i reason or for no shar’i purpose. You should not sit and chat with them and laugh with them. But if there is a reason to do so, such as eating with a guest, or to invite them to Islam or to guide them to the truth, or for some other shar’i reason, then it is OK. The fact that the food of the People of the Book is halaal for us does not mean that we may take them as friends and companions. It does not mean that we may eat and drink with them for no reason and for no shar’i purpose. Shaykh Muhammad al-Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about the ruling on mixing with the kuffaar and treating them kindly hoping that they will become Muslim. He replied: Undoubtedly the Muslim is obliged to hate the enemies of Allaah and to disavow them, because this is the way of the Messengers and their followers. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibraaheem (Abraham) and those with him, when they said to their people: ‘Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allaah, we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, hostility and hatred for ever until you believe in Allaah Alone’”[al-Mumtahanah 60:4] “You (O Muhammad) will not find any people who believe in Allaah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), even though they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred (people). For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with Rooh (proofs, light and true guidance) from Himself”[al-Mujaadilah 58:22] Based on this, it is not permissible for a Muslim to feel any love in his heart towards the enemies of Allaah who are in fact his enemies too. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth”[al-Mumtahanah 60:1] But if a Muslim treats them with kindness and gentleness in the hope that they will become Muslim and will believe, there is nothing wrong with that, because it comes under the heading of opening their hearts to Islam. But if he despairs of them becoming Muslim, then he should treat them accordingly. This is something that is discussed in detail by the scholars, especially in the book Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah by Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him). Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 3, question no. 389. Secondly: With regard to what this person says about not mixing with sinful Muslims for fear that he may be tempted by their sins, but the kufr of the kuffaar does not tempt him, the answer to that is: As for not mixing with Muslims who commit sin, he is doing well thereby, if he is not able to advise them and forbid them to do evil, and he fears that he may fall into the same sins and think it is something good. With regard to mixing with the kuffaar, the reason why mixing with the kuffaar is not allowed is not only the fear that one may fall into kufr, rather the main reason for this ruling is their enmity towards Allaah and His Messenger and the believers. Allaah has indicated this reason in the verse where He says (interpretation of the meaning): “O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth (i.e. Islamic Monotheism, this Qur’aan, and Muhammad), and have driven out the Messenger (Muhammad) and yourselves (from your homeland) because you believe in Allaah your Lord”[al-Mumtahanah 60:1] So how can it be appropriate for a Muslim to keep company with the enemy of Allaah and his enemy, and make friends with him? How can he be certain that he will not start to think of their ways as good? Many Muslims have fallen into kufr and heresy and have apostatized from Islam because of keeping company with the kuffaar and living in their countries. Some of them have become Jews and some have become Christians, and some have embraced atheistic philosophies. We ask Allaah to make us steadfast in following His religion. See also the answer to question no. 2179, which explains the important principle of the prohibition on taking the kuffaar as close friends. It also describes many forms of the kinds of friendship that are forbidden. In the answer to question no. 43270 you will find the ruling on saying that the morals and manners of the kuffaar are better than those of the Muslims, and there is a quotation from Shaykh Ibn Baaz on the prohibition on saying such a thing. In the answer to question no. 26118 and 23325 it is stated that it is forbidden to keep company with the kuffaar and make friends with them. And Allaah knows best.

https://islamqa.info/en/59879
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
I think it is ok to be friends with disbelievers aslong as they are not enemies to Islam, or cause you to become like them etc.

We have to have some sort of communications.

May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.
I don't think It's right to continue making your own Islamic fatwas and rulings. Read sources before posting such nonsense.

I advise you to re-edit your post.

:jz:
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:15 PM
This is what I mean. You don't need to have a mutual relationship with kuffar. If you do, May Allah guide you.

I have nothing else to say but rather disappointing that this forum is full of kuffar-pleasing parrots. Shows us all how there is no ummah and the only ummah is those who hate and love for Allah's sake.
Reply

czgibson
04-13-2016, 02:16 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
doesn't matter those who give eric h and disbelievers in general a speical treatment should leave it.

There's no need to be merciful to a disbeliever who's not Muslim, he's not a dhimmi nor does he have any alliance with the ummah

I would've accepted it if he payed Islamic taxes or was under an alliance

People on here should learn islamic history and Islam itself before interpreting their own emotions on islamic matters

he's a kafir @Eric H and there's no need to give him some sort of special respect
This is exactly the sort of hateful nonsense that makes people reject Islam. Eric H's contributions on the forum show him to be a thoroughly decent human being and just as worthy of respect as anyone else.

Hang your head in shame.

Peace
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


This is exactly the sort of hateful nonsense that makes people reject Islam. Eric H's contributions on the forum show him to be a thoroughly decent human being and just as worthy of respect as anyone else.

Hang your head in shame.

Peace
No one has given me proof disapproving my points.

Just a bunch of kuffar pleasing rants. This forum isn't an ummah.

End of discussion.
Reply

ardianto
04-13-2016, 02:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
Also the brother who said I need to respect a disbeliever so I can gain back respect,

brother, he is a disbeliever. I don't need to kiss his feet in order to please him and show how 'great' islam is.

When you give disbelievers this treatment, they'll lose it once they become Muslim(Insh'Allah) and would think opposite of Islam. It's best to show love through your manners. No need to go beyond that.

And Allah knows best

:jz:
Assalamualaikum.

According to Christians, we are disbeliever. But Eric H and other tolerant Christians do not call us infidel, because they know the ethic of interfaith relationship.

Allah does not forbid us to be kind to non-Muslims who do not hostile us. Eric H is one of non-Muslims who do not hostile Muslims, and have respect to Muslims. So, is it wrong I treat him respectfully too?. This is not to lick non-Muslims, but treating respectfully to non-Muslims who respect us is what I must do as Muslim.

format_quote Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
I would've accepted it if he payed Islamic taxes
Do you accept PayPal?. Just tell me how much you want. I will pay for Eric H.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:22 PM
@farhan Great another disbeliever punk ranting on an Islamic point of view.

Why don't you create this forum to meet the Islamic rulings instead of running around pleasing the kuffar? I have no words left for this ummah.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
Assalamualaikum.

According to Christians, we are disbeliever. But Eric H and other tolerant Christians do not call us infidel, because they know the ethic of interfaith relationship.

Allah does not forbid us to be kind to non-Muslims who do not hostile us. Eric H is one of non-Muslims who do not hostile Muslims, and have respect to Muslims. So, is it wrong I treat him respectfully too?. This is not to lick non-Muslims, but treating respectfully to non-Muslims who respect us is what I must do as Muslim.


Do you accept PayPal?. Just tell me how much you want. I will pay for Eric H.
I meant jizya.

Give me proof please

I don't need any emotional messages
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:26 PM
Haven't received nothing throwing my points in the trash can.

A bunch of kuffar and some Muslims who think it's allowed to befriend kuffar.

Learn your deen. Please.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:29 PM
There's a difference between not befriending the kuffar and giving dawah to the kuffar.

You don't need to show mercy to them. I've given proofs yet nobody has given me a proper answer. Just a dodgy or dramatic rant.

You're quick to jump on pleasing these disbelievers yet show harshness towards your own ummah. How great is this filthy ummah!
Reply

noraina
04-13-2016, 02:31 PM
Kuffar-pleasing parrots?

Besides that, the last thing I will say is that the above points you have taken out of context, brother. I read through the replies in full and they all have specific conditions. We can respect those who are of a different faith, in fact we are encouraged to treat them kindly. I don't understand what has been happening on this forum you are concerned about. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the perfect example of respect and religious tolerance - he visited the child of a Jewish neighbour who was unwell, this is in al-Bukhari.

Islam is not a religion of hate, but of mercy.

And the proof you have given me is insufficient to believe in your point, so I suppose the feeling is mutual.

BarakAllahu feek.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:38 PM
Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)”

[al-Maa’idah 5:51]

Tafsir: Shaykh al-Shanqeeti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: In this verse Allaah tells us that whoever takes the Jews and Christians as friends is one of them because of his taking them as friends. Elsewhere Allaah states that taking them as friends incurs the wrath of Allaah and His eternal punishment, and that if the one who takes them as friends was a true believer he would not have taken them as friends. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“You see many of them taking the disbelievers as their Awliyaa’ (protectors and helpers). Evil indeed is that which their ownselves have sent forward before them; for that (reason) Allaah’s Wrath fell upon them, and in torment they will abide.

81. And had they believed in Allaah, and in the Prophet (Muhammad) and in what has been revealed to him, never would they have taken them (the disbelievers) as Awliyaa’ (protectors and helpers); but many of them are the Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)” [al-Maa’idah 5:80-81]
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
Kuffar-pleasing parrots?

Besides that, the last thing I will say is that the above points you have taken out of context, brother. I read through the replies in full and they all have specific conditions. We can respect those who are of a different faith, in fact we are encouraged to treat them kindly. I don't understand what has been happening on this forum you are concerned about. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the perfect example of respect and religious tolerance - he visited the child of a Jewish neighbour who was unwell, this is in al-Bukhari.

Islam is not a religion of hate, but of mercy.

And the proof you have given me is insufficient to believe in your point, so I suppose the feeling is mutual.

BarakAllahu feek.
“O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth (i.e. Islamic Monotheism, this Qur’aan, and Muhammad), and have driven out the Messenger (Muhammad) and yourselves (from your homeland) because you believe in Allaah your Lord” [al-Mumtahanah 60:1]

So how can it be appropriate for a Muslim to keep company with the enemy of Allaah and his enemy, and make friends with him?

How can he be certain that he will not start to think of their ways as good? Many Muslims have fallen into kufr and heresy and have apostatized from Islam because of keeping company with the kuffaar and living in their countries. Some of them have become Jews and some have become Christians, and some have embraced atheistic philosophies.

We ask Allaah to make us steadfast in following His religion.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
Kuffar-pleasing parrots?

Besides that, the last thing I will say is that the above points you have taken out of context, brother. I read through the replies in full and they all have specific conditions. We can respect those who are of a different faith, in fact we are encouraged to treat them kindly. I don't understand what has been happening on this forum you are concerned about. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the perfect example of respect and religious tolerance - he visited the child of a Jewish neighbour who was unwell, this is in al-Bukhari.

Islam is not a religion of hate, but of mercy.

And the proof you have given me is insufficient to believe in your point, so I suppose the feeling is mutual.

BarakAllahu feek.
If this is insufficient proof, I personally don't even know what is sufficient proof. Allah has said it clear that they are the enemies of Allah. Under conditions such as being a dhimmi or an alliance within an islamic nation, then it is allowed to be merciful.

I don't see any proofs or any proper explanations where Allah tells us to be merciful to the kuffar. You are a liar.

May Allah guide you.
Reply

BlackFlags
04-13-2016, 02:45 PM
Brother Umar Ibn Farooq is right. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by BlackFlags
Brother Umar Ibn Farooq is right. May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.
Finally a brother who doesn't take my message negatively.

Those who reject the truth, they are but hypocrites and running after this dunya for the sake of pleasure.

May Allah bless you.
Reply

Serinity
04-13-2016, 02:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
This is what I mean. You don't need to have a mutual relationship with kuffar. If you do, May Allah guide you.

I have nothing else to say but rather disappointing that this forum is full of kuffar-pleasing parrots. Shows us all how there is no ummah and the only ummah is those who hate and love for Allah's sake.
Ok, lets have an experiment, try to be hateful, and despicable to the kafir @czgibson, and tell whether he'd rather run for the hills, or turn to Islam.

The ways you guys do dawah, and view kafirs, and on UF too, makes more enemies of Islam, than Muslim brothers. And not all kafirs are enemies of Islam.

If they don't stand in the way of Islam, or propagate, you'd hardly call that an enemy.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
Ok, lets have an experiment, try to be hateful, and despicable to the kafir @czgibson, and tell whether he'd rather run for the hills, or turn to Islam.
I follow the teachings of Islam. I don't need to show him my love and mercy. I only have to convey the message.

I never claimed to be fierce and harsh against them. You're taking my message the wrong way. As you've given the shahadah and have claimed yourself to be Muslim, it is obliged for you to follow the religion and accept all the rulings. If you decline it, you have disbelieved and you're not a Muslim.

May Allah also guide you.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
Ok, lets have an experiment, try to be hateful, and despicable to the kafir @czgibson, and tell whether he'd rather run for the hills, or turn to Islam.

The ways you guys do dawah, and view kafirs, and on UF too, makes more enemies of Islam, than Muslim brothers. And not all kafirs are enemies of Islam.

If they don't stand in the way of Islam, or propagate, you'd hardly call that an enemy.
Praise be to Allaah. The belief in al-wala’ wa’l-bara’ (loyalty and friendship vs. disavowal and enmity) is one of the most important basic principles of Islam. Just as faith increases and decreases, so too people vary in the extent to which they adhere to this important principle, and their adherence to it increases and decreases. But if this principle is destroyed completely in a person’s heart and he does not do what it implies, this means that faith has been destroyed entirely as well, and faith is the basis on which he loves the close friends of Allaah and hates His enemies. This principle is indicated by a number of verses in the Book of Allaah and ahaadeeth from the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). These include the following:

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “You (O Muhammad) will not find any people who believe in Allaah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allaah and His Messenger (Muhammad), even though they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred (people). For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with Rooh (proofs, light and true guidance) from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens (Paradise) under which rivers flow, to dwell therein (forever). Allaah is pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the party of Allaah. Verily, it is the party of Allaah that will be the successful” [al-Mujaadilah 58:22]

https://islamqa.info/en/47322

From the fatwa given, do you have al wala wal bara for the sake of Allah or are you going to blindly follow your desires to fulfill your own needs? Don't live in this world to please yourself or please people. Live it to please Allah. That is true faith.
Reply

Serinity
04-13-2016, 02:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
I follow the teachings of Islam. I don't need to show him my love and mercy. I only have to convey the message.

I never claimed to be fierce and harsh against them. You're taking my message the wrong way. As you've given the sahahdah and have claimed yourself to be Muslim, it is obliged for you to follow the religion and accept all the rulings. If you decline it, you have disbelieved and you're not a Muslim.

May Allah also guide you.
I am Muslim, and accept all rulings. And may Allah guide us all. Ameen.

And Allah knows best.
Reply

BlackFlags
04-13-2016, 02:58 PM
Remember brothers and sisters, do not soften Islam for the kaffirs, and do not try to westernise it. Say the truth about Islam. May Allah reward us.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 02:58 PM
@farhan Brother it's best you follow the teachings of Islam and implement them on the forum. There is no need to make Islam a fairy floss sugar coat religion. It is the religion of Allah. Not the religion of your desires.
Reply

M.I.A.
04-13-2016, 02:58 PM
Well.. Could you give us an example of the jizya rule being enforced anywhere in the world today..

So we can better understand how to answer.

As a westerner all I have for comparison is the tax laws.. Although they are always open to abuses and concessions.
Reply

MidnightRose
04-13-2016, 03:00 PM
There will be no personal attacks in this forum. If this ocurrs, available measures will be taken to stop this.
Reply

noraina
04-13-2016, 03:14 PM
We are all Muslims, striving to please Allah SWT Alhamdulillah. I feel I have many improvements to make with myself, but I kindly ask you not to call me a liar - because nothing I have said is a lie, and if I have made a mistake, then there is no need to declare it in public.

That hadith I mentioned about the Prophet (pbuh) visiting his Jewish neighbour's son. Following the visit, that son became a Muslim. I do not think he would have converted if the Prophet had not shown mercy and kindness to him.

I don't like arguing with my brother in Islam, so I'll leave it at that.

May Allah guide us all.
Reply

BlackFlags
04-13-2016, 03:20 PM
We must remember our limits. For example, there is no need to be kind and merciful towards the oppressors who have seen Islam but does not accept it. Allah knows best.
Reply

anatolian
04-13-2016, 03:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
How great is this filthy ummah!
You harvest what you sow. If you sow the seeds of hatred, you harvest hatred but if you sow the seeds of kindness, you harvest kindness.
Reply

BlackFlags
04-13-2016, 03:40 PM
There are limits for that. If anyone oppresses the Muslims, we must retaliate.
Reply

Smoke
04-13-2016, 03:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by BlackFlags
There are limits for that. If anyone oppresses the Muslims, we must retaliate.
No.... Are u THE black flags?
Reply

Smoke
04-13-2016, 03:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by BlackFlags
There are limits for that. If anyone oppresses the Muslims, we must retaliate.
Oh wait just saw you're male - ignore that
Reply

BlackFlags
04-13-2016, 04:00 PM
nah dw about the username
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 04:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
Well.. Could you give us an example of the jizya rule being enforced anywhere in the world today..

So we can better understand how to answer.

As a westerner all I have for comparison is the tax laws.. Although they are always open to abuses and concessions.
Sadly, no country follows Islamic laws and those who agree with the countries laws have indeed done kufr and have left the religion of Allah.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 04:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
We are all Muslims, striving to please Allah SWT Alhamdulillah. I feel I have many improvements to make with myself, but I kindly ask you not to call me a liar - because nothing I have said is a lie, and if I have made a mistake, then there is no need to declare it in public.

That hadith I mentioned about the Prophet (pbuh) visiting his Jewish neighbour's son. Following the visit, that son became a Muslim. I do not think he would have converted if the Prophet had not shown mercy and kindness to him.

I don't like arguing with my brother in Islam, so I'll leave it at that.

May Allah guide us all.
I haven't called you a liar to insult your misguidance but to show you that what you believe in a specific Islamic matter is wrong. Why are we so hostile when it comes to advice? It's clear that they are the enemies of Allah and that we should only socialize with them when it comes to dawah.

As Muslims we should follow Qur'an, hadith and the salaf. My beliefs have no contradiction with the Qur'an and sunnah. What you follow in the current Islamic matter is based upon your own emotions. Sadly, that is not Islam and the Islam most ''Muslims'' follow isn't the correct Islam the Prophet Muhammad saw had followed.

I'd like to end off by saying we should follow Islamic rulings if it's an Islamic forum. I don't see why it's considered wrong to follow your own religion and to implement harsh laws against the enemies of Allah. Would you want to stand in front of Allah and be asked why you haven't forbidden evil and enjoined good? My only purpose is to argue and to prove the forums wrong is to show your rulings are too moderate. Make it strict and compassionate. May Allah guide us to the absolute truth.

It is my duty as a Muslim to warn you and to show you that what you're doing is wrong. If you believe my 'teaching' is wrong, please educate me. If you believe what you say is the truth, then explain your point of view. If not, you are a liar and the message I've given with authentic hadith, quranic verses and explanations is indeed the truth.

Not claiming that this is my knowledge but as Muslims we have to be aware of our own religion before we go spitting out mouths and thinking it's all about peace.

May Allah guide us
Reply

M.I.A.
04-13-2016, 04:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
Sadly, no country follows Islamic laws and those who agree with the countries laws have indeed done kufr and have left the religion of Allah.
...and yet my moral compass points only towards fear of Allah swt.

Strange days where winning is sinning.

...you have to put me six feet under before I get anything apparently.. By then I probably won't even want it.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 04:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
...and yet my moral compass points only towards fear of Allah swt.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. If you want to prove something to me, say it clear. No need to cause useless arguments. I'm only here to advice my brothers and sisters. Not here to throw hot metal rock on their luxury.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 04:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by najimuddin
There will be no personal attacks in this forum. If this ocurrs, available measures will be taken to stop this.
You have to realize I'm not some extremist Muslim. People tend to forget their own teachings. I'm only here to remind those who believe. To the rest, May Allah deal with them
Reply

M.I.A.
04-13-2016, 04:36 PM
...ah.. I guess we overlook all the favours of Allah swt upon us..

I hope the hot metal rock can wait.


I do not resent the luxury of others.. I only need a fair chance to prove my worth.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 04:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
Kuffar-pleasing parrots?

Besides that, the last thing I will say is that the above points you have taken out of context, brother. I read through the replies in full and they all have specific conditions. We can respect those who are of a different faith, in fact we are encouraged to treat them kindly. I don't understand what has been happening on this forum you are concerned about. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the perfect example of respect and religious tolerance - he visited the child of a Jewish neighbour who was unwell, this is in al-Bukhari.

Islam is not a religion of hate, but of mercy.

And the proof you have given me is insufficient to believe in your point, so I suppose the feeling is mutual.

BarakAllahu feek.
format_quote Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
“O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth (i.e. Islamic Monotheism, this Qur’aan, and Muhammad), and have driven out the Messenger (Muhammad) and yourselves (from your homeland) because you believe in Allaah your Lord” [al-Mumtahanah 60:1]

So how can it be appropriate for a Muslim to keep company with the enemy of Allaah and his enemy, and make friends with him?

How can he be certain that he will not start to think of their ways as good? Many Muslims have fallen into kufr and heresy and have apostatized from Islam because of keeping company with the kuffaar and living in their countries. Some of them have become Jews and some have become Christians, and some have embraced atheistic philosophies.

We ask Allaah to make us steadfast in following His religion.
format_quote Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)”

[al-Maa’idah 5:51]

Tafsir: Shaykh al-Shanqeeti (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: In this verse Allaah tells us that whoever takes the Jews and Christians as friends is one of them because of his taking them as friends. Elsewhere Allaah states that taking them as friends incurs the wrath of Allaah and His eternal punishment, and that if the one who takes them as friends was a true believer he would not have taken them as friends. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“You see many of them taking the disbelievers as their Awliyaa’ (protectors and helpers). Evil indeed is that which their ownselves have sent forward before them; for that (reason) Allaah’s Wrath fell upon them, and in torment they will abide.

81. And had they believed in Allaah, and in the Prophet (Muhammad) and in what has been revealed to him, never would they have taken them (the disbelievers) as Awliyaa’ (protectors and helpers); but many of them are the Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)” [al-Maa’idah 5:80-81]
I've given you proof. I don't see no disapproval of it and even if you did, it would contradict the Qur'an and the sunnah of the Prophet (SAW)

This is indeed the truth. May Allah guide you, ukhti.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 04:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by najimuddin
Your and everyone's posts must abide by forum rules.
:jz:
Reply

strivingobserver98
04-13-2016, 04:59 PM
:sl:

Watch:

Reply

Eric H
04-13-2016, 05:22 PM
Greetings and peace be with you BlackFlags;and welcome to the forum,

There are limits for that. If anyone oppresses the Muslims, we must retaliate.
I would hope I have never oppressed any Muslim, and I would ask forgiveness if I have offended any of you.

In the spirit of praying to 'One God'

Eric
Reply

Eric H
04-13-2016, 05:33 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Umar Ibn Farooq;


I would've accepted it if he payed Islamic taxes or was under an alliance.
If I lived in a Muslim country, then I would be happy to pay the tax, however, I live in the UK. and Muslims pay the same tax as Christians here.

As I have said to you before, I have a profound respect for Muslims, especially those on this forum, they have been very kind and helpful over the last eleven years.

May Allah bless all of you and may he guide us
May Allah bless you also,

Eric
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 05:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you BlackFlags;and welcome to the forum,



I would hope I have never oppressed any Muslim, and I would ask forgiveness if I have offended any of you.

In the spirit of praying to 'One god'

Eric
That is our life. Not our hobby.
Reply

anatolian
04-13-2016, 05:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you BlackFlags;and welcome to the forum,



I would hope I have never oppressed any Muslim, and I would ask forgiveness if I have offended any of you.

In the spirit of praying to 'One god'

Eric
"Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly." (5:82)
Reply

Eric H
04-13-2016, 05:40 PM
Greetings and peace be with you all,

Thank you for many of the kind comments. I would not like to be the cause of division amongst you, so if my being here causes problems, then please say, and I will leave.

Blessings.

Eric
Reply

AabiruSabeel
04-13-2016, 06:14 PM
Being members of Islamic Board, all non-Muslims here are protected by IslamicBoard's rules and regulations. Nobody is allowed to hurt them unjustly.

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. [Al-Mumtahinah 8]
Reply

anatolian
04-13-2016, 06:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you all,

Thank you for many of the kind comments. I would not like to be the cause of division amongst you, so if my being here causes problems, then please say, and I will leave.

Blessings.

Eric
Don't do

I heard u intend to leave us , don’t do..
U tend to have another love ,another friend, don’t do..

Don’t steal us from us and dont go far places
Oh! moon, the universe is overwhelmed for the sake of u

U are are overwhelminh us and going now , don’t do..
Oh! person, ur rank is between existence and absence

How u can leaving this existence, don’t do…
If u turn ur face to diffrent direction, moon will be totally dark

U intend to destroy house of moon, don’t do…
Our lips will be dry, if u are in difficulty

Now, u are making our eyes wet, don’t do..
If u can not handle with lovers

Why u are surprising when u see real love, don’t do
Ohh, the person who is holding heaven and hell on ur hands

Ur are turning our heaven to hell, don’t do…
If u are poison in our sugar cup, it doesnt harm us

But u are trying to make all sugar poisionus with absence, don’t do..

from Rumi :)
Reply

M.I.A.
04-13-2016, 06:33 PM
I guess there is rumi for all on ib. :p
Reply

BlackFlags
04-13-2016, 07:01 PM
Thank you for your kind words. And yes, may we all establish true Tawheed in our hearts.
Reply

Alpha Dude
04-13-2016, 07:04 PM
The creator of this thread (which should have been deleted the moment it was created) is an unjustly hateful moron who should have been banned the moment he created the thread.
Reply

noraina
04-13-2016, 07:09 PM
There is no need to leave EricH, you have been a valuable member on this forum. :)
Reply

BlackFlags
04-13-2016, 07:12 PM
He has given us proof about the certain topic.
Reply

M.I.A.
04-13-2016, 07:15 PM
With great power comes great responsibility.

Only a worthy few can wield the ban hammer..

Although some might go for a high score on whack a mole..

Time will tell..

Post counts will tumble.
Reply

Yahya.
04-13-2016, 07:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
The creator of this thread (which should have been deleted the moment it was created) is an unjustly hateful moron who should have been banned the moment he created the thread.
Isn't it forbidden to insult in this forum? And 3 people even liked this. Also he didn't say that he hates him, but only that their is no need for special treatining (although I am not long enough in this forum to understand what he means).
Reply

Serinity
04-13-2016, 07:27 PM
It is topics like these that needs to be discussed in more depth.

We should be understanding towards the kafirs when giving dawah, and not label them all as hateful, conspiring enemies of Islam.

some are just ignorant........ Or just doesn't know any better. We should always be positive when giving dawah, not negative. :)
Reply

M.I.A.
04-13-2016, 07:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by YahyaIbnSelam
Isn't it forbidden to insult in this forum? And 3 people even liked this. Also he didn't say that he hates him, but only that their is no need for special treatining (although I am not long enough in this forum to understand what he means).
Treatening :|

Hopefully a deliberate typo..

May Allah swt have mercy upon us. Honestly I don't know how you people act IRL..

:|

...I need a holiday, maybe I should leave.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 07:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
"Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly." (5:82)
format_quote Originally Posted by ibn-Adam
Being members of Islamic Board, all non-Muslims here are protected by IslamicBoard's rules and regulations. Nobody is allowed to hurt them unjustly.

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. [Al-Mumtahinah 8]
format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian
Don't do

I heard u intend to leave us , don’t do..
U tend to have another love ,another friend, don’t do..

Don’t steal us from us and dont go far places
Oh! moon, the universe is overwhelmed for the sake of u

U are are overwhelminh us and going now , don’t do..
Oh! person, ur rank is between existence and absence

How u can leaving this existence, don’t do…
If u turn ur face to diffrent direction, moon will be totally dark

U intend to destroy house of moon, don’t do…
Our lips will be dry, if u are in difficulty

Now, u are making our eyes wet, don’t do..
If u can not handle with lovers

Why u are surprising when u see real love, don’t do
Ohh, the person who is holding heaven and hell on ur hands

Ur are turning our heaven to hell, don’t do…
If u are poison in our sugar cup, it doesnt harm us

But u are trying to make all sugar poisionus with absence, don’t do..

from Rumi :)
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
The creator of this thread (which should have been deleted the moment it was created) is an unjustly hateful moron who should have been banned the moment he created the thread.
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
There is no need to leave EricH, you have been a valuable member on this forum. :)
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
With great power comes great responsibility.

Only a worthy few can wield the ban hammer..

Although some might go for a high score on whack a mole..

Time will tell..

Post counts will tumble.
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
It is topics like these that needs to be discussed in more depth.

We should be understanding towards the kafirs when giving dawah, and not label them all as hateful, conspiring enemies of Islam.

some are just ignorant........ Or just doesn't know any better. We should always be positive when giving dawah, not negative. :)
All I'm reading is emotional hatred. I never made fun nor did I insult Eric h rather gave you an Islamic fatwa regarding befriending kuffar and the relationship you should have with the kuffar.

Those who gave me no proof which are the ones I've quoted, have indeed done nothing to throw my points off and instead gave me emotional explanations.

May Allah guide all of you. Backbite me as you wish. Allah will hold us accountable for our deeds.
Reply

BlackFlags
04-13-2016, 07:51 PM
Yahya
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
The creator of this thread (which should have been deleted the moment it was created) is an unjustly hateful moron who should have been banned the moment he created the thread.
Instead of giving emotional responses, why not use your own proof for your side of the argument? Insulting others won't really get you far.
Reply

Sister101
04-13-2016, 07:51 PM
There is a difference between giving dawah to the kuffar and being buddies with them. We can treat them with kindness, give them dawah, but we can't be friends.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 07:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ibn-Adam
Being members of Islamic Board, all non-Muslims here are protected by IslamicBoard's rules and regulations. Nobody is allowed to hurt them unjustly.

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. [Al-Mumtahinah 8]
That is a lame excuse. Islamic board is run by the religion of Islam. The Qur'anic verse goes under heavy conditions. It isn't for an everyday kafir but as you know Allah has put dark dots in hearts he wishes to put in and he is the only one to guide and misguide. I will leave it up to Allah. I've given my proofs. Accept it or live in misery with it.

I've given you points denouncing your love for the disbelievers. Do as you wish but remember my words til the day of judgement. Insh'Allah you'll be judged fairly.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 07:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister101
There is a difference between giving dawah to the kuffar and being buddies with them. We can treat them with kindness, give them dawah, but we can't be friends.
:jz:

Another sister who Allah has opened eyes to the truth. MashAllah
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 08:00 PM
Almighty Allah says in the Qur'an:
But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not. [2:216]


Follow your desires as you please but realize the consequence of it. May Allah judge us fairly according to our actions. Ameen.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 08:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by BlackFlags
Yahya


Instead of giving emotional responses, why not use your own proof for your side of the argument? Insulting others won't really get you far.
All these posts telling the kafir to stay on the forums is a perfect example.

These people run around pleasing the disbelievers. They don't care about their akhirah nor the Islamic fatwa I've presented. Just what's right through ''human nature''.

May Allah hold us accountable.
Reply

Serinity
04-13-2016, 08:31 PM
How will scaring the kuffar away help in spreading Islam? Let them stay, as long as they don't cause mischief.

Perhaps 5 years down the line one kafir here may become Muslim, and if we expel them from here, we may be questioned by Allah as to why we expelled a slave of His, when perhaps Allah send the kafir our way?

Don't forget that the spread of Islam starts from ourselves. From our manners.

Always remember - if the dawah is not working - then the problem is you, not the kafir. What will blaming the kafir help in becoming better at dawah?
May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 09:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
How will scaring the kuffar away help in spreading Islam? Let them stay, as long as they don't cause mischief.

Perhaps 5 years down the line one kafir here may become Muslim, and if we expel them from here, we may be questioned by Allah as to why we expelled a slave of His, when perhaps Allah send the kafir our way?

Don't forget that the spread of Islam starts from ourselves. From our manners.

Always remember - if the dawah is not working - then the problem is you, not the kafir. What will blaming the kafir help in becoming better at dawah?
May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.
I don't get why you're making random assumptions. I never claimed to kick all the kafirs out. Another emtional post which majority would prefer over an Islamic ruling. N'audubillah what times we live in. Give me authentic proof. Otherwise, I don't believe a single word you're saying. Question the rulings of Islam as you desire but my whole purpose of arguing with some ignorant people isn't to be the hero rather to warn you of Allah's rulings.

They are not my rulings but the rulings of Allah. If you wish to interfere and alter the rulings to your own fit, then you have indeed disbelieved and are not a Muslim.

If you're a Muslim, it's best to gain knowledge and understand other points of views before jumping on and throwing in your onions.

May Allah also guide you.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
04-13-2016, 09:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
How will scaring the kuffar away help in spreading Islam? Let them stay, as long as they don't cause mischief.

Perhaps 5 years down the line one kafir here may become Muslim, and if we expel them from here, we may be questioned by Allah as to why we expelled a slave of His, when perhaps Allah send the kafir our way?

Don't forget that the spread of Islam starts from ourselves. From our manners.

Always remember - if the dawah is not working - then the problem is you, not the kafir. What will blaming the kafir help in becoming better at dawah?
May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.
I need proof. Not explanations.
Reply

Eric H
04-13-2016, 09:34 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Umar Ibn Farooq;

my whole purpose of arguing with some ignorant peopleMay Allah also guide you.
If your facts were convincing, you would not have to argue, calling people ignorant is not going to help your cause, even if you are right.

May Allah also guide you.
Thank you, if that comment is meant for me as well.

Blessings

Eric
Reply

Eric H
04-13-2016, 09:58 PM
Greetings and peace be with you all,

Thank you all for the help and kindness you have shown me over the years, it is very much appreciated. In times of unrest, I am reminded of the signiture I use, 'You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.'

Greetings and peace be with you Umar,

You seemed to like this reply by Sister101

Originally Posted by Sister101

There is a difference between giving dawah to the kuffar and being buddies with them. We can treat them with kindness, give them dawah, but we can't be friends.
Now we don't have to be friends, but I am happy with kindness, you can even give dawah.

In the spirit of praying to 'One God'

May Allah bless all of you and may he guide us.

Eric
Reply

M.I.A.
04-13-2016, 10:30 PM
In other news... Ban hammers confiscated everywhere..

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/0...141418824.html
Reply

Search
04-13-2016, 10:48 PM
:bism:

:sl:

I never please anyone except myself, and I only strive to please Allah.

Honestly, you have typed a bunch of nonsense that I don't even know how to tackle your post. I already told you before when you'd expressed ridiculous sentiments first against Eric H that this is a Forum that provides a platform for both Muslims and non-Muslims to interact with one another in a healthy manner; and with all due respect to you as a human being and Muslim, if you don't like that, then you're either free to leave or receive a ban if you continue in this disrespectful vein because I will be reporting your posts. I have a very low threshold for tolerating nonsense.

Peace.

:wa:

format_quote Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
doesn't matter those who give eric h and disbelievers in general a speical treatment should leave it.

There's no need to be merciful to a disbeliever who's not Muslim, he's not a dhimmi nor does he have any alliance with the ummah

I would've accepted it if he payed Islamic taxes or was under an alliance

People on here should learn islamic history and Islam itself before interpreting their own emotions on islamic matters

he's a kafir @Eric H and there's no need to give him some sort of special respect

not being your enemy brothers and sisters but learn to hate and love for Allah's sake

Not saying we should hate on our disbeliever 'friend' but there's no need to have some mutual relationship with disbelievers.

Allah says in the Qur'an: Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. [48:29]


May Allah bless all of you and may he guide us.
Reply

Search
04-13-2016, 10:54 PM
:bism:

:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
@farhan Brother it's best you follow the teachings of Islam and implement them on the forum. There is no need to make Islam a fairy floss sugar coat religion. It is the religion of Allah. Not the religion of your desires.
You want him to implement your version and interpretation of Islam on this board. Nice. Except no. If this board ever develops intolerance for non-Muslims, I will also be the one to leave the board, as I don't view Islam through the hateful and bigoted lens you do.

:wa:
Reply

Search
04-13-2016, 10:59 PM
:bism:

I have immense respect for you, and I'd ask you to not leave. Bigotry should never be tolerated and never condoned.

If today you leave, then other non-Muslims on this board might also feel pressured to leave the board. Please remember that the people who feel that they cannot tolerate others, especially non-Muslims, are the ones most in need of non-Muslims like you to be on this board. Today, you might not be tolerated; tomorrow, I might not be tolerated. Where does it stop? And will it stop?

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings and peace be with you all,

Thank you for many of the kind comments. I would not like to be the cause of division amongst you, so if my being here causes problems, then please say, and I will leave.

Blessings.

Eric
Reply

Search
04-13-2016, 11:08 PM
:bism:

@farhan @MuslimInshallah @najimuddin @ibn-Adam

Unless this thread serves a purpose and you are the best to decide if does, I'd request you kindly to close this thread as I personally do not see it as benefiting anyone except attacking non-Muslim members on this board.
Reply

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