View Full Version : Losing hope

04-26-2016, 06:06 AM
With every passing day I am losing hope in myself and Allah. Nothing is improving despite the fact that I have always preferred HIS rules over the wordly rules. IT seems that this life is for cunning shrewd people for succeed and people like me who try to follow Allah commands or trust in HIM lose. I am so sick of myself.

How can Allah prohibit suicide when HE makes the lives of people miserable through HIS rules. People only realize when they become a mess rather than world succedding individuals.



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04-26-2016, 08:08 AM

Know that if you kill yourself, you'll be in Hellfire forever. Afaik.

04-26-2016, 08:26 AM
I am unable to find a spouse despite being rich, well educated and perfectally normal. All in all I should make a decent match.

Now my parents are insisting on marrying a cousin. I never wanted to marry in the family and this seems to be the only option left. I have prayed to Allah in Tahajjud and it didnt help.

This aspect of my life is hindering me from doing anything else in my life. For long I have been unable to manage or look after my business properly because of this issue. My deen is slipping away and Now I feel I have done the wrong thing by protecting and maintaining the modesty in the university life. I am totally screwed becaise I chose to stick on my deen.

Theres literally no way out. If I marry a cousin it wont make me happy and will create more depression, and if I dont I dont have any option left. Allah is not helping either. Where should I go ?

04-26-2016, 08:46 AM
I agree with you 101%. But the problem is the society and even bigger problem is the comminity O cone from. Its a big business community and guys as young as 19 are married. I am Alhamdullilah 24 with everything going for me and yet losing this aspect is going to make people raise their eyebrows and alot of bad rumours about me my family will spread. Allah is so big cant he do just one thing for me ?

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04-26-2016, 08:51 AM
I also feel main issue is that I tried to live the life of Sahabas in the period where people will pick Michael Jackson over them.

~ Sabr ~
04-26-2016, 08:58 AM
Originally Posted by dreamcatcher
I agree with you 101%. But the problem is the society and even bigger problem is the comminity O cone from. Its a big business community and guys as young as 19 are married. I am Alhamdullilah 24 with everything going for me and yet losing this aspect is going to make people raise their eyebrows and alot of bad rumours about me my family will spread. Allah is so big cant he do just one thing for me ?
Allaah does what is best for His servants - always remember that.

04-26-2016, 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by FreedomStands
Allah isn't not helping, but rather is absolutely to blame for your situation in every way, including your depression.
I am not trying to hang you out or anything, but judging from what I can read, blaming Allah is a characteristic of shaytaan/Ibless (although perhaps sometimes we fall into that trap)

I know I am not to speak, cuz I have my things to fix.

But I just want to bring your attention to your quotation, is that what you meant? To blame Allah?

04-26-2016, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by FreedomStands
Sometimes I use shocking or radical words to shake up the religious ideas of people. There are for example some people who say "Allah does not look into toilets" or at private parts. Out of some strange fear of offending Allah who is not a human being at all, they end up saying blasphemous things and spreading false and ridiculous notions, so in response to that I might say something which is meant to shake up such beliefs and may sound blasphemous to people who are not refined in their ideas regarding Allah, for example that "Allah is fully aware of what goes on in toilets, moreover, all information is known to Allah as is, so Allah is not ignorant of what it feels like to be a human defecating, that experience of "so and so defecating" in every detail is known to Allah, it is wrong to say "I know what Allah does not know, I am aware of what it feels like to defecate and am the only one with this knowledge and experience as is, whereas Allah has different knowledge and I have this private secret knowledge which Allah does not fully have so that Allah is partially ignorant where I know something Allah does not know", Allah is fully aware of the experience in every detail, knows it "as is" which is how Allah created it as well, Allah is not "looking on from the outside, looking at objects moving, looking down from the sky" but is creator of experiences, and is viewing the experiences "as is" that means, from the inside, in all the ways we experience them because that is the information that Allah has created, viewing it from the outside would be other information, not the same information as viewing it from the inside "Encompasses all vision, while not being encompassed by any vision".

So to say "Allah is to blame" is the same as saying "All credit for everything which occurs, good or bad, goes to Allah alone" or as the Qur'an says it "All is from Allah, the good from Allah (is from Allah), the evil from yourselves (is from Allah)" "All is from Allah".

So Iblis was not wrong in his saying "you have sent me astray" because Allah indeed is responsible for everything which occurs in every detail. Iblis is also not lying or wrong when he later says "I had no power over you", it is not that Iblis is constantly lying and all his statements are false and to be denied, if even a villain says the truth, the truth remains the truth. For example, if a rapist, murderer, pedophile, says that 1+1=2, that doesn't make the statement false just because they are a rapist, murderer, pedophile.

So the use of the word "blame" sends a disturbing chill into some people, for fear that they are saying something wrong or blasphemous which may offend Allah. Again, if something terrible happens to me and I end up with a horrible stroke like the famous preacher who had a stroke, would that mean that it is a punishment from Allah for saying that Allah alone is the power and the chooser and the doer who is responsible for everything absolutely? Would that mean that saying that is to be avoided because a stroke was brought about by Allah? Would that mean that another is responsible, there are other powers besides Allah, that Allah looks to chance for answers and how to respond and is not the creator of all information and experience? See, these are the fallacies and erroneous thoughts given to humans which I would like to work to dispel in order than people refine their religion in the utmost ways and become the strongest adherents of Islam and devotees of the One and Only.

Sometimes I use radical seeming statements like "The first part of the Islamic creed is Atheism" and then work to demonstrate what I mean in detail and how I mean it particularly. I try to never say anything wrong. I had this conversation with my mother recently as well since she was disturbed by the use of the word "blame" too but then when it was explained she hopefully understood.

We blame Allah and doing so can be a good thing too, and Allah is free of needs, not petty, and is not offended by the truth as far as I'm aware. To blame Allah can mean to turn your mind to Allah when misfortune occurs, to acknowledge who is ultimately responsible for everything which occurs, the good and the evil, the misfortune or the fortune. Please check out my recent post here as well which quotes from the Qur'an:


People are also frightened by stating that All Evil is from Allah and Allah is the Lord of Evil. Again this are radical seeming statements meant to shake up the false notions people have attached to where they inadvertently make partners with Allah and perform shirk saying that Satan or others are actually the creators of Evil or that not everything is from Allah but that some things are not from Allah or that Allah only created some things or some experiences and other experiences are created by something else or have another source, thus making partners with Allah even without realizing it.

To know that Allah is the source and cause of Evil, the purveyor of evil, who brings about all evil, human evil (murders, rapes), natural evils (human evils are natural too, but people make a distinction, so diseases, disasters), and technologies and technological evils (poisons, chemicals, missiles, mines, bombs, "accidents"), is to appropriately appraise Allah and earnestly increase the reasons to fear Allah, and the one who fears Allah most is called in the Qur'an the noblest. I try to be that one, and also spread the fear and horror of Allah which is a basic notion spread throughout the Qur'an though people tend to blank out and seem to ignore it in favor of the more Christian popular idea of "love and bunny rabbits".

Life and Reality does not reflect that at all, but is a demonstration of pure power, and is full of evil that people are helpless to stop, there is decay, apparent error, dispute, war, slaughter, pain, suffering, cruelty, malice, horrors upon horrors, not created by Satan or any of the Satans of humankind or jinn who have no creative power whatsoever, but by Allah, the master of Horror, the Lord of War and Violence, the Diseaser, the Forcer, the Torturer, the Tormentor. No rape or murder and act of violence or bloodshed occurs save by Allah's will and power alone. Yes it is horrible, and that can be the point as well, that had we the power we might have been able to stop the trouble, but Allah has the power, and proves that He alone can do anything and is unstoppable and worthy of all fear.

He can create the experience of you walking around having a wonderful day, and suddenly you go entirely mad and imagine there is a staircase when there is no staircase, or a gang of rapists seem to come over and out of nowhere abduct you and rape you, of no fault of your own. Allah can bring about Terror in an instant, and so when the kaffirs say in their ignorance "It is a religion of Terror! A Cult of Death" they aren't even necessarily wrong, or can be made right, except that they don't appear to mean it in the right way or even know what they are being made to say, again being made to say by Allah's will, who gives them their words, even the false ones, and their notions, even the false ones, who leads them further and further astray, while guiding others, freely and from the beginning, and no credit goes to anyone except Allah or "blame" except that Allah chose it for them to be wealthy or poor, drug addicts or doctors or both, writing all the stories and experiences in existence and bringing them about however they are and experiencing them as they are as well, aware fully of all the information, not just some of it while others have different private information.

This is the terrible power of Allah, and there is no force available to combat or fight or stop Allah, Allah who can do anything, who can create evil for any reason or no reason, and needs no reason, has no needs, is completely free to do anything and is unstoppable. It is Allah who is to be feared with the utmost fear, every nightmare is from Allah, every horror, every delusion. Allah can make us do anything, we are empty, slaves, controlled, and we beg on the floor and in tears that Allah saves us and protects us and does not harm us, as Allah can freely harm us and there is no Judge above Allah who can stop Allah or condemn Allah for anything that Allah does or creates or brings about.

Yet, Allah has given us respite, and mercies, and pleasures too, and is the Lord of Sex, Lord of Desire, Lord of Pleasure, Lord of Food, Lord of Everything. It is Allah who controls our chemicals, our sensations, our pleasures, our joy, our moods:

and that it is He alone who causes [you] to laugh and to weep;

This is my religion, and I am bold in it, and if I will be blamed for it or accused of blasphemy for praising Allah as the sole and supreme power, then so be it, it is Allah's will if such occurs, and it is Allah who sets up enemies against people (haha I don't believe you're an enemy, in fact, I'm hoping this speech has inspired you and made you more like me and helped to further refine your beliefs and make you a more fierce devotee of Allah, however you interpret this speech and if it makes you feel good or makes you feel bad, is from Allah too, how you react to it is from Allah too, and how you interpret it, and every thought you get from it. It is Allah who is communicating with you constantly through everyone and everything every moment, it is Allah who makes you see and hear and experience whatever you experience, it is Allah alone speaking to you, Allah alone who makes you aware or unaware, Allah is present right before you, it is Allah looking through your eyes even, seeing what you see, knowing what you know, telling you everything, making you believe or disbelieve in whatever you believe or disbelieve in and can change it just lie Allah can change a staff into a snake and a snake into a staff or bring about anything or make an idol speak or do even stranger things like out of nowhere and based on nothing inventing that "there is a "nose" and it breathes "air" and it is on a "face" which is on a "head" and all sorts of things which are entirely creative and absurd if you realize that it comes from nowhere and has no basis whatsoever, is entirely made up.

Similarly, I say other radical seeming things, like that Allah utters Lies. What I mean by this is that, Allah creates the Truth, makes up things which had no prior existence. We are told to speak the truth which generally means to say things which reflect the reality, but there was no reality before Allah, Allah uttered things that did not exist and brought them about, turning the Lies into the truth, but Allah alone is the Ultimate Truth. This is also the nature of Change, that it is not false to say you are 12 years old, but it was once true to say it apparently. It was true to say There is a snake, when there was a staff, but Allah uttered it, "Be" and it is.

There was nothing or none of this, then Allah uttered things that do not exist and were untrue, and made them true. The magnificent power of Allah. I use these words that people are frightened of to shake up their beliefs, and then strengthen them thereby.

People also fear the words "anger" "envy" "greed" but they can be turned towards good also and channeled rightly as well. We should be angry at evil and disease and trouble and fight against it vehemently and fiercely with energy. We should be envious of the good people and thus pursue becoming even better than them! We should be greedy for what is best, and not greedy for what is worst!

People say "do not fear" "there is nothing to fear" or "fear is bad and cowardly", and I say Be Afraid, be Very Afraid, for anyone who is not a coward before Allah is a fool, and we are all fools before Allah who has us all fooled. "Will they shed blood?" "Know, you know not".
I understand what you mean.

Allah is the Lord, Creator of everything, evil, lust etc. BUT to attribute EVIL to Allah should be avoided.

Yes, Allah willed ibless etc. To disobey etc. BUT Allah never forced Iblees etc. It is still the fault of Ibless. The difference between Ibless and Adam AS is that Adam did NOT blame Allah, while yes, Allah willed Adam to disobey Him, but that is not to be attributed to Allah. Adam AS acknowledged that he, himself, was the wrong..

Whatever happens to us, of bad and good, is from Allah. But whatever happens of Bad is from Allah, but it is because of what our hands have put forth. Allah is NEVER a tyrant to His slaves.

BUT it is of proper verbal etiquette to NOT attribute filth, evil, etc. to Allah. Everyone OBEYS Allah's Universal will, as for His legslative will, the muslims do.

For example if I get waswass, that is from Shaytaan, not Allah. But indirectly, it IS from Allah, cause EVERYTHING is from Allah. But we attribute the waswass to shaytaan, and not Allah.
May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong, but can I do something Allah did not command? yes, can I do something Allah did not cause? No. Can I do something Allah did not will? no. Whatever I do, I can NEVER outwill Allah.

If I kill a man, I did it, not Allah, but Allah willed it, so did Allah cause it? yes, Do it? No. For to say Allah did it, is to attribute an action YOU did to Allah SWT. pls correct me if I am wrong.
May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.

Read this:


04-26-2016, 07:27 PM
Life is not made miserable unless you make it with your own hands yes depression is a very difficult thing to deal with since I am dealing with it and really bad waswas and doubts but I just continue praying and hope for the best I try my best giving up my past mistakes. But as I said above life is only bad if you make it bad. This was a harsh lesson I learned and blaming Allah makes your situation worse and shouldnt be done.So thank Allah cause it clearly states we will be tested. Now it is the shaytaan who is trying to ruin you but forget the enemy all they say is stupid things and we can ignore it. They only attack to disrupt your faith so don't let them rob you fight back and lock them out.

04-26-2016, 07:52 PM

interesting, but many people confuse and say "Allah willed me to do this! it is all Allah's fault! Why should I be punished for what Allah willed me to do?"

you see, we are all responsible for ourselves, Allah won't take responsibility for ourselves. Allah doesn't FORCE me to say stuff, ie. literally makes me do whatever forcibly. Cause where is the freewill in that?

Yes, Allah willed everything, I couldn't do a thing, except that Allah willed it. but to attribute evil to Allah, yes. ALLAH created it, but it is better for a slave not to blame Allah. Cause Allah is faultless, blameless.

whatever I do, ALLAH allowed me to. I don't do a single thing, except that Allah SWT willed it, I know. Allah created every word, willed, decreed everything, before the start of creation (correct me if I am wrong)

Many people go over to blaming Qadr of Allah for whatever they do.. They can even go over to KUFR, by saying "Allah made me sin!" ALLAH does not order/command immorality.

"Allah made me sin..." etc. Can become KUFR! (afaik)

Although Allah created evil, Allah hates evil, Allah never says to do evil.

04-26-2016, 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by FreedomStands
There is no freewill in Islam or the Qur'an or even the Bible. It is a later Christian invention that was popular among people. The Ancient religions of the world, including Islam, attribute complete control Allah, and Fate, Destiny, or whatever other concept.

Yes, people can say "Allah made me do it" and they aren't wrong, but that doesn't mean that they were made to do what would lead them to good, and Allah can punish them freely with or without a reason, because Allah created these concepts, and created these events, and can create any sort of story. It is all made up in the first place. Justice, what is just, what is unjust, what is right, what is wrong, who is punished, the punishment, etc etc, its all invented by Allah from nothing and can be changed or made any other way as well

It isn't a matter of merely "allowing" or "permitting" but actually "performing" every detail of it too. You are not a partner who chooses besides Allah choosing. The Qur'an says in the quotes I linked to earlier that "you cannot even will it" except that Allah wills it. You can't even think or will or desire to do wrong or right except that Allah is making that occur.

Allah created the concept of "blame" as well, and that "evildoers go to hell" and even who does evil, what is evil, how it is performed, and brought about who does it and when and where and how in every detail. Those who are made to do it, clearly that is a curse upon them, just like the sun was made to shine, fish are in the sea, trees are cut down, cows are put into factories and cut up, this is Allah doing it all, and some existences are horrible, others are pleasurable, some are rich and some are poor.

So they aren't wrong when they say that God made them drown their child in the bathtub, it was indeed God who did it, even making the thoughts go through and making the actions go through and occur. "Do we have any say in the matter"? The answer is no, you really don't, "No choice had they". This is why people have called Islamic, especially early Islamic thinking "Fatalistic". Later on the Christians and others came up with ideas like "Free Will" to make God more like a human Judge, who is passive rather than active and "sits back" and "lets things happen" and what free will means and translates to is "it could have gone another way, this could happen or that could happen, it is undetermined, not determined by God" and what it means is "Chance Decides" and that "God looks to Chance to see what it answers as to the results, then responds". These are all the notions of humans who are making the situation more like a human situation. Allah cannot "sit back", there is no such thing, Allah does not rest. If Allah stops doing anything, then the thing can not run on its own, it has no power, there is no power holding up the bird but Allah.

Allah is doing it, that is what "will" means. Allah says "Be" and it is, it is Allah's performance and power.

Allah is to blame, but so what? Allah has made all the badness and evil and the performance of every murder, can anyone stop Allah? Nope. That is why this religion is called Surrender. We can't do anything about it, we are helpless before Allah. We beg if Allah wills us to be beg, and we beg that we are spared from being evildoers, and the prayer put in our mouth is from Allah too.

Now here is the Bible:

1 Kings 22:23
"So now the LORD has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

It is a very old concept:

Romans 9:18
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

Exodus 4:21
The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

1 Samuel 19:9
But an evil spirit from the LORD came on Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the lyre,

Deuteronomy 32:39
Look now; I myself am he! There is no other god but me! I am the one who kills and gives life; I am the one who wounds and heals; no one can be rescued from my powerful hand!

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring good and create evil; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Lamentations 3:38
Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?

Amos 3:6
When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it?

Job 9:12
If he snatches away, who can stop him? Who can say to him, 'What are you doing?'

Isaiah 46:11
From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that I will bring about; what I have planned, that I will do.

Isaiah 56:9
Come, all you beasts of the field, come and devour, all you beasts of the forest!

Then, after this woe, He sent down upon you a sense of security, an inner calm which enfolded some of you, whereas the others, who cared mainly for themselves, entertained wrong thoughts about God - thoughts of pagan ignorance - saying, "Did we, then, have any power of decision [in this matter]?" Say: "Verily, all power of decision does rest with God" - [but as for them,] they are trying to conceal within themselves that [weakness of faith] which they would not reveal unto thee, [O Prophet, by] saying, "If we had any power of decision, we would not have left so many dead behind." Say [unto them]: "Even if you had remained in your homes, those [of you] whose death had been ordained would indeed have gone forth to the places where they were destined to lie down." And [all this befell you] so that God might put to a test all that you harbour in your bosoms, and render your innermost hearts pure of all dross: for God is aware of what is in the hearts [of men].

Thy Lord bringeth to pass what He willeth and chooseth. They have never any choice. Glorified be Allah and Exalted above all the partners they associate (with Him)!

That includes concepts, since the "gods" of old were generally concepts or natural forces. Love, Justice, or anything else are all creations of Allah, Allah is not bound to anything or determined by anything, Allah brings about what Allah wills and chooses, No choice is there besides that. There is no "free will" in Islam except that Allah alone is the "Free Will" and whatever we call our "Free Will" is actually Allah's "Free Will" doing it and bringing it about, we are nothing but slaves like anything else, like the sun and the moon and the stars.

If You punish them, then indeed they (are) Your slaves, and if You forgive [for] them then indeed You, You (are) the All-Mighty, the All-Wise."

The Jews say: Allah's hand is fettered. Their hands are fettered and they are accursed for saying so. Nay, but both His hands are spread out wide in bounty. He bestoweth as He will. That which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them, and We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection. As often as they light a fire for war, Allah extinguisheth it. Their effort is for corruption in the land, and Allah loveth not corrupters.
Sorry, but I feel you're wrong. we do have free will. We have accountability. Yes, Allah could indeed punish everyone without reason, but Allah is All-just, so He wouldn't do soo.

and lets not confuse ourselves. Allah speaks only the Truth. Whatever comes from Allah directly, is TRUTH. And ALLAH would never let the Prophets AS tell lies, ever. Allah is truthful.

IF, Allah forbid us from ever thinking like this, Allah was to tell lies, audhu billah, then after which statement would we trust? Allah speaks only Truth, to state otherwise, one'd be confused. And that can't be.
Sorry, but we do have freewill. Allah granted us freewill.

Whatever we will, Allah willed. But whatever we do, is to be attributed to ourselves. Not Allah. But overall, Allah created it, in that sense it is from Allah, etc.

We are moving into Qadr, and I'd rather not speak about it. Allah speaks only Truth, Allah never lies, and Allah would never let The Prophets AS lie regarding Allah, or revelation or anything (immorally - in some cases it is acceptable to lie)
May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.

Whatever befalls us of evil is from Allah, but it is because of what we've done. Allah is never a tyrant to His slaves.

Lets just stop here. I don't want to discuss Qadr.. It is not wise to indulge yourself into destiny.

04-26-2016, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by FreedomStands
The problem is, by saying what you've said, you are actually saying the following:

People can do "this or that" meaning "Allah doesn't determine what they do, Chance determines what they do because it can go this way or that way".

That is the problem. So in love with the idea of Justice and accountability, one ends up actually making the concept of Allah foolish and humanoid and false.

Again, when one says "Allah speaks only the Truth" one is actually saying "There are lies, and lies are a creation, and Allah created only some things and not other things, Allah is not the creator of absolutely everything, only some things, there are other creators, there are things which created other things, there are things which even did what Allah did not want them to do, Allah's hand has slipped and Allah is watching as things go astray in all directions determined by Chance and Circumstance and not by Allah alone".

This is the problem.

The lies and the truth are from Allah, they are both creations, they are both phenomenon, and whatever exists or is experienced in any way, the experience itself and how it is experienced, is from Allah alone. Anyone who disagrees is basically performing shirk, that is "to make partners" attributing other forces at work besides Allah.

So these are the problems with the statements and why I say what I say and reason how I reason.

The Qur'an also appears to repeatedly confirm this idea, as do the other scriptures from around the world in the past, whereas the notion of "free will" and its emphasis is largely a newer idea, advocated by Christians who are also obsessed with "God as Love" and that "God is Good and Only Good", rather than according to reality, where God is the purveyor of all good as well as evil, which even the Bible makes clear to them repeatedly.

Also to say "directly" and "indirectly" is a form of shirk as well. "Allah has a partner, Allah makes the first thing, then the partners come along and make it into other things, and they determine what is made, not Allah, Allah is not the chooser, they choose, and they even choose what they do and they choose what happens to them, so they are partners in every sense, co-creators with Allah, determining what Allah decides and responds to".

All these are false notions to be expelled from the mind entirely.

Lets work on it.
You're confusing yourself. YEs, I know Allah determines EVERYTHING, etc. Decrees, creates, and wrote everything down, knows everything, etc.

Allah WILLED us to have FREEWILL, so it is by the will of Allah, we have free will.

I know Allah is the creator of GOOD and BAD, but we do not attribute them to Allah. We do not say "Allah is evil, " etc. audhu billah, cause that'd be a LIE. Whatever action someone does, we attribute it to the doer, yet Allah created it etc.

I really really, don't want to discuss Qadr.

We have free will, yet our free will is WILLED by Allah, whatever we do, is decreed, written, known, etc. Nothing is hidden by Allah, everything is in control by Allah. Yet Allah willed us to have free will.. Now lets stop this. And may Allah guide us. Ameen.

Allah created Zina, Adultery, Murder, or a psychopath, but we do not attribute it to Allah.

Pls, can some scholar continue henceforth?

04-26-2016, 10:07 PM
Wow, if I had to choose between this and that.. I'd say that..
It seems the more humbling word. So I chose it.

04-26-2016, 10:11 PM
Never mind..

Just rambling.

04-26-2016, 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by FreedomStands
I showed quotes from the Qur'an. There is nothing that you can trust, that is the nature of surrender, you must reason things, and even your reasoning is from Allah.

The things you are saying are confused seeming like "Whatever we will, Allah willed" but then saying we shouldn't say that or say certain things even if they are true?

Where does Allah say "they decide, I do not decide"? I showed you the Qur'an says Allah alone decides, they have no choice.

I'm not here to send you astray as far as I am aware, I am only trying to refine religion and thinking.

"What word can be trust?" None at all, that is the nature of our helplessness before Allah, we never know, we are ignorant and lost, that is why were in a state of total surrender, we believe what we are told, just like the staff was turned into a snake and back into staff, that is the terrible power of Allah, that is the fear of Allah and why we beg Allah to give us good rather than bad.

You must reason things clearly.

If anyone says different from what I am saying, I am saying what I am saying because anything else is actually blasphemy or implying things which are not true or do not do Allah appropriate justice in description.
I know ............ I just don't want to discuss Qadr. And you assume a lot about me, about which I did not say or mean, or imply, at all. Allah is my witness. Lets leave this.

04-26-2016, 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by FreedomStands
No no, I'm not trying to assume about you. I am saying that in an English language sentence, those are the implications when one is mentioning such and such sentence. I didn't mean you actually believe any of that stuff, just that it is what follows from those statements.

For example, if one says "The car is in the barn" it means certain things. One can not say "The car is in the barn" and then say "that doesn't mean the car is in the barn".

So I was just saying, such and such are the problems with those ideas or statements you presented, because that is what they imply or those implications are actually built into them logically with what those concepts or ideas mean.
It is sematics, pretty much.

Anything that comes from Allah directly is perfect, without contradiction. Cause anything that comes from Allah, The Book of Allah. Must not contain any contradiciton. This is in terms of attribution.

There are people whom Allah speaks of in the Quran that changed the Bible, the Torah, etc. and said "This is from Allah" Lying about Allah, as it was not from Allah, attribute-wise. Overall, everything is from Allah, but we don't attribute everything to Allah.

So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. - 2:79

People will blame Qadr of Allah for whatever they do. If everyone could do that, no adultress, murderer, or thief, or rapist, would be punished, because Allah willed it. We can't blame Allah, Allah is blameless.

Allah only tells truth, as He is Al-Haqq

04-26-2016, 10:26 PM
I believe in Allah who created everything, Every Evil every Good, every falsehood, every Truth.

But Allah alone tells truth, Allah never lies. We don't attribute evil to Allah, that is the difference.

04-26-2016, 10:27 PM
Depends on if you coined the term.. Stockholm syndrome.

Allah swt is responsible for everything and yet who in the prophets life gets a mention?



04-26-2016, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by FreedomStands
That just doesn't make sense to me. The first part is good, but then what is this second part?

1. Do lies exist? The answer is "yes".

2. What is a lie? "Lie" is a word, referring to a concept. In my definition a Lie is what does not accord with reality.

3. Who created lies? Allah.

4. Who brings about any event? Allah.

5. Who is responsible for everything that occurs? Allah.

6. Who invented the lies? Allah.

7. Who leads people astray, makes them believe whatever it is they believe or think? Allah.

8. Who puts false ideas, ideas which do not accord with reality, lies into their minds and urges them on in wrongdoing in their own minds by creating those experiences and making them occur? Allah.

So what is the problem?
Allah willed them to occur, but Allah never forced the one's doing it. You are literally saying Allah orders immorality, audhu billah. It is shaytaan that urges immorality, it is shaytaan that encourage wrong. Allah lets it happen, but Allah is free from it.

The lie is attributed to the doer, and everyone is responsible for whatever they did. You are confusing Qadr.

May Allah guide you and all of us. Ameen.

04-26-2016, 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Who puts false ideas, ideas which do not accord with reality, lies into their minds and urges them on in wrongdoing in their own minds by creating those experiences and making them occur? Allah.
It is shaytaan that urges, wrong, that puts false ideas etc. but it is Allah that creates them.

04-26-2016, 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by FreedomStands
We know the wrongdoing is attributed to the wrongdoer. Allah created the immorality and brought it about. What you're suggesting is "Allah sits back" and other forces create what occurs and decide the matters, that there are partners who are making these decisions and bringing them about. Shaitan has no power over people, it is Allah who is called Jabbar. He is literally forcing whatever exists, to say otherwise is to say "They decide, Allah does not decide, They choose, Allah does not choose" and its in complete contradiction to even the Qur'an and what I've quoted from it.
No I am not. Stop assuming. Yes Allah created immorality, but Allah does not do it.

you're assuming about me lies. I reject whatever you say of falsehood about me. Allah is my witness. I see you confused.

PLease just STOP assuming lies about me, you take one word from me, and make up lies.

Take back what you said about me.

04-26-2016, 10:50 PM
Originally Posted by FreedomStands
So you're making a partner right there by what you're saying. You're saying that Allah doesn't make that so, that such an event occurs, but that Shaytaan decides it and does it and Allah didn't bring that about in every detail but Allah follows after Shaytaan and what Shaytaan wants to do and makes it happen after Shaytaan decides or wants to do something.

That is not what you believe, I am saying that is the implication inside of such statements.

Shaytaan has no power over people, Allah has power over everything. That Shaytaan urges or not is Allah bringing it about. It is Allah who is the puppet master, not Shaytaan who is just a puppet like us.
Just stop. I never said that.


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