My girlfriends parents disowned their daughter

[youngen]

Hi, I want to post here to try and get some advice from muslims.

Me and my muslim girlfriend have been seeing each other for about a year now and a few days ago her parents found out after seeing us in the street and and freaked out. They had a huge row and because she said she would not stop seeing me, they've kicked her out of their home and disowned her, they said they never want to see her again. She's only 17... I'm 22

She explained that it's because I'm not muslim and her parents are old fashioned and prefer the traditional ways of doing things and she isn't like that, she barely follows the religion and the parts she did follow was mostly because her father enforced it on her. Praying, fasting, wearing the hijab etc.

Now she is living with me, I can provide for her financially so she would probably be better off but I still don't want her relationship with her family to be crushed because of me. Is there anything we can do besides break up that will help mend their relationship? On top of everything I have her older sister banging on my door, giving me endless abuse and now her and her sister are fighting.

It's just a nightmare situation, is there anything we can do? Maybe if I could just sit down with her parents and let them see I'm not a loser and I'm perfectly capable of being a decent boyfriend for her.

I have no interest in becoming a muslim, besides like I said she barely follows it anyway. She just prays occasionally, fasts and that's it. She's made it very clear that she doesn't want to break up with me and I feel the same way, so is there any possible way we can solve this?

[Alpha Dude]

From a Muslim cultural viewpoint, even in those cases where a family is not necessarily practicing Islam as much as they could be, it is seen as extremely dishonorable for a young girl or guy to do such a thing.

Maybe some day, decades from now, the parents and family will become accepting of her but it's very unlikely that their relationship will ever recover.

You need to realize that this is no small thing that she has done. She's gone against her entire family, ruined her relationship with them completely and turned her back on her religion to be with a random guy.

[crimsontide06]

The whole forcing her to fast, pray,wear hijab...etc is probably the root of the whole issue. Instead of teaching her about God from an early age...they filled her life with rules and restrictions. Her family has a right to be angry but part of the blame lies on them.

This idea is included in this lecture (within the 1st 10 minutes) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvKUv2xQYfc

Yes, Muslims are supposed to do those things but it has to be from their heart...that they want to do it for Allah. Doing it because you were forced to, means nothing to Allah..



She has a choice to make and it's not about her family. Does she stay with you or does she love Allah more and follow what he says is right/wrong.

[Alpha Dude]

Maybe if I could just sit down with her parents and let them see I'm not a loser and I'm perfectly capable of being a decent boyfriend for her.

You're in a losing position. There is nothing you could do.

Muslims are not allowed to date first and foremost and secondly, Muslim women are not allowed to marry non-Muslims. So there's two things against you here: you're dating her before marriage and on top of that, you're not a Muslim.

No gesture of goodwill you show is going to overcome this for them.

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[youngen]

So that's it then... simply because I am not muslim she cannot date me? There's absolutely nothing wrong with me, who cares what I believe, as long as I'm a decent man that takes care of her and treats her well, that should be enough.

She's been living with me for nearly a week now and I've caught her praying twice so I know she still does it but I guess she's just very happy with the way things are with us that she doesn't want to give it up. How can I deal with the older sister? She is actually coming to my home and giving me an earful all the time, it's like her whole family hate her, I feel so sorry for her but I also blame myself a little even though she tells me it's not my fault.

What a mess.

[Alpha Dude]

So that's it then... simply because I am not muslim she cannot date me?

It would be a sin for her to date you even if you were a Muslim.

I guess her older sister is just looking out for her.

[Alpha Dude]

Let me put it to you this way.

Traditionally, Muslims do not date or mingle before marriage. That kind of behavior is seen as a big sin.

So, even if you were the best person out there and a Muslim and you were to find yourself in this same situation, you would still face the same reaction from her family.

It is a major sin for her to be involved with a man before marriage. On top of that, if she were to marry you and you did not convert to Islam, she would perpetually be involved in fornication as your marriage would not be an Islamically valid one.

The bottom line is that if she doesn't take her religion seriously, she can do as she pleases (of course, she is free to do what she wants) - however, if she does hold it to some value (which seems the case if she is praying), she would leave you given that she would realize what she is doing is sinful for her.

[s.ali123]

I would say it is not really about you being nice or worst person, Islamically a man woman cannot have any relation except for marriage, even with muslim. And with non muslim, she cannot marry at all. So first you want to be "boyfriend" and not marry, secondly you cannot even "marry" her.
So in the end it depends on her, that how much she wants to follow the religion. No one is supposed to force her for anything. And partly the way she feels now, and finding it difficult to leave what is Islamically wrong, may also be because the way she is brought up by just rules and regulations on everything and not doing it by her will, which ideally should have been the case.
I dont see anything that you can do. Even from the fact that they have kicked her out, I can sense them to be more of, "cultural muslim", folliwing little bit of what they think to be Islamic, and more kind of "preserving" their pride more than anything.

[s.ali123]

I would say to ask her yourself in peace, that what she wants. You can give her the option to go and ask for advice from some Imam that she can trust. He may talk with the parents and sort out something.
But in the end, even the best thing imam can do is that to convince her to leave you, and try to convince her parents to be more reasonable with their dealing of her.
In the end it is really her choice what she wants!

[youngen]

Thanks for all your replies. Neither of us want the relationship to end and she has made her decision. Unlike her parents I won't force her to do anything she doesn't want to. I now understand who important marriage is and being muslim so that is probably why they acted so harshly.

The parents may not like what she has done but I know that she will have an enjoyable life with me. I'm just upset her family won't support her decisions, even if they don't agree.

Perhaps in time they'll be more forgiving and allow her back into their lives, if she is still interested by then.

[Saleem Khan]

There is absolutely no way out, especially since youve made it clear you won't accept Islam. Also Islam does not recognise your relationship that is outside of wedlock regardless of whether you are a muslim or not. So there is no way for you to prove you are a 'good boyfriend' since you being a boyfriend is unacceptable to the parents.

A relationship between a muslim man and woman can only happen through wedlock.

Also it is absolutely not allowed for her to be married to a non Muslim.

The best thing you do is at least start to study about Islam and give it a go with an open mind. If you don't then let her go otherwise by you staying with her you are destroying her life and separating her from her family and people. In time she will resent you for it.

[youngen]

The best thing you do is at least start to study about Islam and give it a go with an open mind. If you don't then let her go otherwise by you staying with her you are destroying her life and separating her from her family and people. In time she will resent you for it.

She barely follows it herself though, she's never once asked me to learn about it. I guess there's no harm in reading a bit but even if I became Muslim, her parents clearly hate me and will still not approve of me regardless.

I strongly disagree about me destroying her life and resenting me. Her parents are very controlling and she was quite unhappy living there but like I said, I just don't know to be the person responsible for their breakup, but it's really just out of my hands, they disowned her after all. She didn't leave by her own doing, they kicked her out.

Plus I'm pretty sure her older sister wants to kill me lol so that's another family member who will probably never approve of me.

[Mustafa16]

She barely follows it herself though, she's never once asked me to learn about it. I guess there's no harm in reading a bit but even if I became Muslim, her parents clearly hate me and will still not approve of me regardless.

I strongly disagree about me destroying her life and resenting me. Her parents are very controlling and she was quite unhappy living there but like I said, I just don't know to be the person responsible for their breakup, but it's really just out of my hands, they disowned her after all. She didn't leave by her own doing, they kicked her out.

Plus I'm pretty sure her older sister wants to kill me lol so that's another family member who will probably never approve of me.

if you really cared about your girlfriend, either leave her-since dating is haram and a Muslim woman courting a non Muslim man is a sin-or look into converting to Islam regardless of her own piety or if she only followed Islam out of force....if you do decide to be Muslim, which will bring you peace and make you a welcome and cherished member of the ummah (Muslim community), try to be as pious as possible and remember that everything happens for a reason in Islam, and try to apologize to her family.....also, try to get your girlfriend to practice Islam as well

[Search]

:bism:

Hi. Welcome to IB! @youngen
I've already sent you a message in your inbox, but I would welcome you again on behalf of all the good members on IB here and also for giving us a chance to assist you.

I know you want to fix this, and you can't, and you feel terrible about all that's happened. Sometimes, things happen in life.

I think you've been given excellent advice here and without repeating anything, I'd encourage you to definitely to look into Islam as a means of gaining knowledge and understanding about your current partner's heartache. It may be that God willed this difficult situation for both of you to give you an opportunity to learn.

I'd advise you to look up Islam on the site Islamreligion and also come to us with any questions or concerns you have through this journey of learning. You have already taken the brave and beautiful first step in coming to IB, and for that, I say bravo.

I truly wish that all things work out in the best way. Please do not be concerned about gaining acceptance as yet from her family as probably in their minds the wounds are still fresh, and it may be that if you decide to become Muslim they may with persuasion come around; at this time though, please focus on your life and learning about Islam God-willing.

Thank you.

Wishing you awesomeness and happiness,

[youngen]

if you really cared about your girlfriend, either leave her-since dating is haram and a Muslim woman courting a non Muslim man is a sin-or look into converting to Islam regardless of her own piety or if she only followed Islam out of force....if you do decide to be Muslim, which will bring you peace and make you a welcome and cherished member of the ummah (Muslim community), try to be as pious as possible and remember that everything happens for a reason in Islam, and try to apologize to her family.....also, try to get your girlfriend to practice Islam as well

She hasn't renounced her faith so she still does believe in god, like I said I caught her twice praying while I was watching tv so I know she still believes.

I just received a really friendly helpful PM from someone but I can't reply for some reason.

I'll just talk it over with her, whatever she wants I'll do, if she wants me to learn about Islam I will but obviously I can't just become muslim if I don't believe it.

Thanks again for the advice.

[Saleem Khan]

She barely follows it herself though, she's never once asked me to learn about it. I guess there's no harm in reading a bit but even if I became Muslim, her parents clearly hate me and will still not approve of me regardless.

I strongly disagree about me destroying her life and resenting me. Her parents are very controlling and she was quite unhappy living there but like I said, I just don't know to be the person responsible for their breakup, but it's really just out of my hands, they disowned her after all. She didn't leave by her own doing, they kicked her out.

Plus I'm pretty sure her older sister wants to kill me lol so that's another family member who will probably never approve of me.

The reason they hate you so much is because you dated their daughter behind their backs. What you have done has brought a huge amount of disgrace and dishonour to the family. In the Muslim community this is a very serious thing she has done. They may even hate her more than they hate you at the moment due to the disgrace she has brought upon the family. You both have handled this very badly.

It should have been handled in a different manner.

[Bhabha]

Even if you were a Muslim. She would still not be able to date you!

The boyfriend/girlfriend thing is nothing permanent. You have brought shame to her and to her family. Even in a non Muslim family with traditional values such as my mom and dad, dating someone without their consent and knowledge is nefarious. Dating someone and choosing that person over your family is double nefarious because it means she has absolutely no regard for her parents concern, let alone for their position in the community. It's like she took the years that they raised her, clothed her, loved her, fed her and took a knife to shove it in their backs.

Your marriage if you ever plan on marrying her will be filled with regret because if she marries you and she is still a conscious Muslim as you stated she will be in constant spiritual conflict. You as a non Muslim might be able to provide financially, but that spiritual aspect that she has will come into conflict and will either win or loose. Her faith, conviction, her love for Allah (God) will be in continual conflict because she is doing something that is damaging her spiritual life.

It is not just converting or not converting or doing the act of becoming Muslim by voice but not by heart. Since converting for the sake of being Muslim in order to date... Is equally bad as Muslims do not date. Muslims can court, but living together is a no. Moreover becoming Muslim without intention is a lie and can be more damaging. You need to put yourself in her position and to consider the irreparable damage that is happening right now and the one that can happen in the future. Her belief is part of her identity, take that out and she will feel loss, let that come into conflict and she will constantly be in spiritual and mental turmoil.


Edit on that note;

I think the best solution will be for you to arrange a meeting with her parents and apologize for the position that you have put their daughter in.

If you aren't interested in Islam or to see the good things in it so that you can at least contemplate on the spiritual aspect of her life. Are you considering marriage with her? How will her life be with you married?

Husbands in Islam are supposed to be the spiritual guidance. How will your children be raised? Do you drink? Party? Eat pork?

Family life is not just nuclear. Marriage becomes a connection between both families, an extension. Parents are care for by the children. Think of these things if your plan is long term. If it is not long term... Think of the damage when you break up with her, the fact that since her family has disowned her she is literally your responsibility and what happens if there is a fight?

How long have you been together?

[s.ali123]

Even if you were a Muslim. She would still not be able to date you!

The boyfriend/girlfriend thing is nothing permanent. You have brought shame to her and to her family. Even in a non Muslim family with traditional values such as my mom and dad, dating someone without their consent and knowledge is nefarious. Dating someone and choosing that person over your family is double nefarious because it means she has absolutely no regard for her parents concern, let alone for their position in the community. It's like she took the years that they raised her, clothed her, loved her, fed her and took a knife to shove it in their backs.

Your marriage if you ever plan on marrying her will be filled with regret because if she marries you and she is still a conscious Muslim as you stated she will be in constant spiritual conflict. You as a non Muslim might be able to provide financially, but that spiritual aspect that she has will come into conflict and will either win or loose. Her faith, conviction, her love for Allah (God) will be in continual conflict because she is doing something that is damaging her spiritual life.

It is not just converting or not converting or doing the act of becoming Muslim by voice but not by heart. Since converting for the sake of being Muslim in order to date... Is equally bad as Muslims do not date. Muslims can court, but living together is a no. Moreover becoming Muslim without intention is a lie and can be more damaging. You need to put yourself in her position and to consider the irreparable damage that is happening right now and the one that can happen in the future. Her belief is part of her identity, take that out and she will feel loss, let that come into conflict and she will constantly be in spiritual and mental turmoil.


Edit on that note;

I think the best solution will be for you to arrange a meeting with her parents and apologize for the position that you have put their daughter in.

If you aren't interested in Islam or to see the good things in it so that you can at least contemplate on the spiritual aspect of her life. Are you considering marriage with her? How will her life be with you married?

Husbands in Islam are supposed to be the spiritual guidance. How will your children be raised? Do you drink? Party? Eat pork?

Family life is not just nuclear. Marriage becomes a connection between both families, an extension. Parents are care for by the children. Think of these things if your plan is long term. If it is not long term... Think of the damage when you break up with her, the fact that since her family has disowned her she is literally your responsibility and what happens if there is a fight?

How long have you been together?

I agree with it as well. This is not the first time we are seeing this. Many times people take hasty decision but face the consequences in the long run. As you said that she is still having faith, in the wrong run, she will start feeling guilty of her action that her living with you is sinful etc, and then it will be terrible for you relation, even if you married her, she would still remain in dilemna.
I also think that you should look into Islam as well. She at least deserve that much. She lost too much for this relation. And don't think that whether her family will accept you or not. For now learn about the religion, and see and for yourself. You seem to be a decent person, otherwise you would not be here asking for advice :) Many people just leave the girl under such circumstances. May God help you with everything!

[youngen]

Even if you were a Muslim. She would still not be able to date you!

The boyfriend/girlfriend thing is nothing permanent. You have brought shame to her and to her family. Even in a non Muslim family with traditional values such as my mom and dad, dating someone without their consent and knowledge is nefarious. Dating someone and choosing that person over your family is double nefarious because it means she has absolutely no regard for her parents concern, let alone for their position in the community. It's like she took the years that they raised her, clothed her, loved her, fed her and took a knife to shove it in their backs.

Your marriage if you ever plan on marrying her will be filled with regret because if she marries you and she is still a conscious Muslim as you stated she will be in constant spiritual conflict. You as a non Muslim might be able to provide financially, but that spiritual aspect that she has will come into conflict and will either win or loose. Her faith, conviction, her love for Allah (God) will be in continual conflict because she is doing something that is damaging her spiritual life.

It is not just converting or not converting or doing the act of becoming Muslim by voice but not by heart. Since converting for the sake of being Muslim in order to date... Is equally bad as Muslims do not date. Muslims can court, but living together is a no. Moreover becoming Muslim without intention is a lie and can be more damaging. You need to put yourself in her position and to consider the irreparable damage that is happening right now and the one that can happen in the future. Her belief is part of her identity, take that out and she will feel loss, let that come into conflict and she will constantly be in spiritual and mental turmoil.


Edit on that note;

I think the best solution will be for you to arrange a meeting with her parents and apologize for the position that you have put their daughter in.

If you aren't interested in Islam or to see the good things in it so that you can at least contemplate on the spiritual aspect of her life. Are you considering marriage with her? How will her life be with you married?

Husbands in Islam are supposed to be the spiritual guidance. How will your children be raised? Do you drink? Party? Eat pork?

Family life is not just nuclear. Marriage becomes a connection between both families, an extension. Parents are care for by the children. Think of these things if your plan is long term. If it is not long term... Think of the damage when you break up with her, the fact that since her family has disowned her she is literally your responsibility and what happens if there is a fight?

How long have you been together?

Thank you all again for the comment, critical or not, it helps.

We have been seeing each other for just over a year. I am all for compromise, she's already banned me from eating pork lol, she won't kiss me if I've eaten it, plus it really annoys her when I eat it so I've just stopped eating it all together. I have accepted that some things about her are different to my way of life. I do not smoke or drink alcohol or do drugs anyway, I'm sensible.

I understand that the breakup is terrible which is why I wanted to try and get things back on track. The problem is she is totally fine with me not being muslim, it's not like she is pressuring me and I'm fighting with her over it. We've spoken about religion like three or four times just during random conversations. The only thing we argue about pretty much is what restaurant to eat at (halal only, that's ok by me) and what movie to go watch lol. She's super chill. My family fully accept her, but I do fully understand how poorly frowned upon bf/gf relationships are and marriage to non muslims.

Maybe if I start learning about islam she might start practising more and who knows, I might even believe it. Then we could transition to an islamic marriage of some sorts. It's a long shot but at least I can say I tried it.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

sounds like she has some faith in her, her distaste for that which Islam does not permit proves this.

I hope she realises that Islam isn't there to make life difficult

nothing is more sad then a family broken up, just thinking about it gets me down and I dont even know you guys

her family may be shouting and giving an earful but their hearts have been ripped up. I know if my daughter ever did this to me I would spiral out of control

[Mustafa16]

Thank you all again for the comment, critical or not, it helps.

We have been seeing each other for just over a year. I am all for compromise, she's already banned me from eating pork lol, she won't kiss me if I've eaten it, plus it really annoys her when I eat it so I've just stopped eating it all together. I have accepted that some things about her are different to my way of life. I do not smoke or drink alcohol or do drugs anyway, I'm sensible.

I understand that the breakup is terrible which is why I wanted to try and get things back on track. The problem is she is totally fine with me not being muslim, it's not like she is pressuring me and I'm fighting with her over it. We've spoken about religion like three or four times just during random conversations. The only thing we argue about pretty much is what restaurant to eat at (halal only, that's ok by me) and what movie to go watch lol. She's super chill. My family fully accept her, but I do fully understand how poorly frowned upon bf/gf relationships are and marriage to non muslims.

Maybe if I start learning about islam she might start practising more and who knows, I might even believe it. Then we could transition to an islamic marriage of some sorts. It's a long shot but at least I can say I tried it.

wishing you well on your possible journey to Islam, hope you convert so I can call you 'brother'!

[youngen]

wishing you well on your possible journey to Islam, hope you convert so I can call you 'brother'!

Sure :)

Thanks again for the advice. I'll talk it over with her.

[crimsontide06]

Did you watch the video I posted? After the opening supplication, it's all English.

Thank you all again for the comment, critical or not, it helps.

We have been seeing each other for just over a year. I am all for compromise, she's already banned me from eating pork lol, she won't kiss me if I've eaten it, plus it really annoys her when I eat it so I've just stopped eating it all together. I have accepted that some things about her are different to my way of life. I do not smoke or drink alcohol or do drugs anyway, I'm sensible.

I understand that the breakup is terrible which is why I wanted to try and get things back on track. The problem is she is totally fine with me not being muslim, it's not like she is pressuring me and I'm fighting with her over it. We've spoken about religion like three or four times just during random conversations. The only thing we argue about pretty much is what restaurant to eat at (halal only, that's ok by me) and what movie to go watch lol. She's super chill. My family fully accept her, but I do fully understand how poorly frowned upon bf/gf relationships are and marriage to non muslims.

Maybe if I start learning about islam she might start practising more and who knows, I might even believe it. Then we could transition to an islamic marriage of some sorts. It's a long shot but at least I can say I tried it.

[youngen]

Did you watch the video I posted? After the opening supplication, it's all English.

I'm watching it now, I'm 20 minutes in at the moment.

[youngen]

Did you watch the video I posted? After the opening supplication, it's all English.

I finished watching that video you posted. I imagine it makes a lot of sense to muslims but for me personally, the only message I took from that is not to care about anything because the only thing that matters is Allah. If I actually believed in god I would probably have a different view about it.

The problem in my opinion with this way of thinking is it teaches people to just not care about anything. I know another muslim who lost sleep night after night and was really stressed out about his university exams, he put 100% effort in and failure simply was not an option. Now he earns £45,000 a year and is able to fully support his family with a decent life. If he used the approach that seems to be taught in that video, then he just would not have cared and his family would have be far worse off.

Anyway I don't think this thread is the sort of place to discuss about other topics. I just wanted to let you know that I did in fact watch it. She is actually very very good at giving presentations.

[crimsontide06]

That is not the message at all.

She is a great speaker, I have listened to dozens of her lectures.

I finished watching that video you posted. I imagine it makes a lot of sense to muslims but for me personally, the only message I took from that is not to care about anything because the only thing that matters is Allah. If I actually believed in god I would probably have a different view about it.

The problem in my opinion with this way of thinking is it teaches people to just not care about anything. I know another muslim who lost sleep night after night and was really stressed out about his university exams, he put 100% effort in and failure simply was not an option. Now he earns £45,000 a year and is able to fully support his family with a decent life. If he used the approach that seems to be taught in that video, then he just would not have cared and his family would have be far worse off.

Anyway I don't think this thread is the sort of place to discuss about other topics. I just wanted to let you know that I did in fact watch it. She is actually very very good at giving presentations.

[Search]

:bism: (In the name of God, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful)
@youngen

Hi. Hope you're doing well and this message finds you in the best of health and spirits God-willing.

Hey, that's great that you've finished that video that the brother provided, and even if you didn't feel very comfortable with some of the ideas, I'm so grateful that you took the time and had the patience to watch those videos.

Since you seem open to watching videos, I'd honestly love for you to watch these videos and tell me what you think of them God-willing in the order given:
Divine Speech Prologue 1
Divine Speech Prologue 2
Dr. Lawrence Brown - From Atheism to Islam
American Atheist and his Family Converted to Islam after Reading the Quran
From Strong Atheist To Islam - Abdul Raheem - I Was Trying To Convince People That God Doesn't Exist
From Atheism To Islam - A Physicist Who Worked As A Scientist In BMW,Jaguar,Ford ...Etc

Obviously, I've given you a lot of videos - hehe, and you should do them one by one at your convenience, and please do not feel pressured to watch them all at once, as learning Islam is something that happens in baby steps. So, you're good to go if you go at your own pace. I'd just love to be able to get your opinions on them and see if they make a difference in how you're perceiving Islam.

Also, of course, reading the Quran is something that is powerful, and I'd love for you to read with an open mind the Quran also and also discuss how you feel about what you're reading, as it is said to be a living text, which means that God's words are speaking to you and your situation and life.

Again, I thank you for coming to IB and being so open to learning about Islam and so willing to assist your girlfriend in overcoming her heartache. No two days are the same, and I know that God-willing you will see a day that things will look better.

Wishing you happiness and peace,

[youngen]

...

Sorry I had to cut your quote out, I can't quote it because it has links in.

Thank you for your reply. You're right, it is a lot of content lol. I've spoken with my girlfriend today about me looking at learning islam and seeing what it's all about and she said it's up to me if I want to or not. She said she's happy whatever decision I make, if I learn about it or not. She said as long as I'm not doing it to try and impress her mother and father because then it's just pointless as it will all just be a lie anyway.

I'll consider reading a bit more about it but honestly she is happy, I am happy and she learning about Islam just to please her parents is not the purpose. After all she is actually muslim and knows much more about it all than me so if she I'll probably just listen to what she wants.

Thanks for the links though, I do appreciate it. I might check them out when I have some free time.

[~ Sabr ~]

Greetings,

The best thing you could do is leave her, or learn about Islam and convert to Islam. Your choice.

[~ Sabr ~]

I am all for compromise, she's already banned me from eating pork lol, she won't kiss me if I've eaten it,

What the.....are you for real?! Or a troll?! :omg:

[greenhill]

Welcome to the forum...

Either way the immediate situation does not bode well for her. With you or at home, after all that has happened.

All I can say is the fact that she is still young at 17. It is more common than you think to be feeling that way. Even at 22.

What is explained is not even scratching the surface and Allah is truly Merciful. I shan't go into it but that is a start and from that, to get it that life is a test. That includes you and her. Each facing different tests for the ultimate destination. We are not here by chance. There is a higher purpose.

Hence why Allah is Most Merciful. We can't see Him and we have to find Him.

The rules you have encountered seperates those who believe and those who don't. That is it's manifestations. The why's of the matter requires study. Then perhaps you'd better understand the test of life.

Wishing you a great stay.

:peace:

[s.ali123]

The problem in my opinion with this way of thinking is it teaches people to just not care about anything. I know another muslim who lost sleep night after night and was really stressed out about his university exams, he put 100% effort in and failure simply was not an option. Now he earns £45,000 a year and is able to fully support his family with a decent life. If he used the approach that seems to be taught in that video, then he just would not have cared and his family would have be far worse off.

I know this is not the thread for debate, and I have not seen the video the brother posted. But one thing which I think you took wrong is that not not doing anything yourself and having just trust in God. That in fact in of itself is unislamic. As according to clear and authentic ahadith, it is mentioned to first do your best in terms of effort, and even then if it does not happen the way you wanted, so dont get depressed. May be something one seem beneficial for himself but was in fact harmful, or think something is harmful but in fact is beneficial. So if the guy you talked about did not have tried his best or 100 effort and would just sit back and say I trust Allah then that is unislamic as well.
In one of authentic narration, once a beduin came to the Prophet and entered mosque. He did not tie his camel and directly came to the Prophet. He asked hin why you did not do that, so he said I trust Allah. The prophet S.A.W. said go back tie the camel and then put your trust in Allah.

About the part they she and you both are fine, I would simply say she is only 17. And I have seen the approaches of people radically changing over time. Even if she thinks that she is mature enough now, I would consider her dicisions to be hasty ones. As a brother, I would say she is playing with fire, and there is too much chances of it firing back in the long run, which she may not realize now.

Anyways, I just made my point. I would you will get good advices here and will also look at some of the long list of links posted above Lol.

BTW subhanallah just few days ago I watched a chinese australlian guy, who had gone through almost similar journey as you. Just that her gf did not marry him, because he was not muslim. She made her read books etc, but he was not convinced. He was athiest. And they broke. But this incident made him look deeper into Islam, and today he is very practicing muslim. His story is interesting one. Here is link to his youtube channel.

https://youtu.be/6t4kWLB-IFc

[Raptor]

I suggest you learn more about islam and see what you want to do next.

[youngen]

Thanks for all your replies, I may not reply to them all but I read every one.

Learning Islam seems to be the most preferred suggestion, but how will learning Islam help fix her and her parents relationship? He was always see me as an outsider most likely and "the non believer who stole his daughter" or some nonsense. Whether I learn Islam and actually convert doesn't seem like it would effect our relationship.

Breaking up with her is simply not an option unless that is what SHE wants. Maybe she is better off without her parents if they're going to literally disown her for what they consider a bad decision. It's not like she killed someone.

Thanks again for all your replies and I promise I will look a little further into Islam, if not for me then for her, so I can better understand her situation and the ramifications of non marriage etc.

[Serinity]

May Allah SWT guide you. Ameen.

A muslim woman can never marry a kafir/disbeliever. Nor can you date her. she is sinning, etc.

Fornication is like the 3rd greatest sin, after murder. So do you see how severe it is, when it is almost on par with murder.

Although Idk much, Allahu alam.

[Mustafa16]

better to have gone out with their daughter without their permission, and then converted to Islam and had a proper relationship, than to remain a non-Muslim dating their Muslim daughter after having gone out with their daughter without their permission.

[youngen]

ok so we sat down and had a chat and she said she would like it if I converted but it's not a problem if I don't. She said she'd help me learn about it and if it doesn't click with me that's fine. So given that, I'm definitely going to give it a shot and see how it goes. She made it abundantly clear that I should only convert if I feel that it's the truth and not to convert for any other reason.

Thanks for the advice and criticism and your patience with my questions.

[s.ali123]

ok so we sat down and had a chat and she said she would like it if I converted but it's not a problem if I don't. She said she'd help me learn about it and if it doesn't click with me that's fine. So given that, I'm definitely going to give it a shot and see how it goes. She made it abundantly clear that I should only convert if I feel that it's the truth and not to convert for any other reason.

Thanks for the advice and criticism and your patience with my questions.

You are welcome :)

[~ Sabr ~]

What kinds of Muslims are there in this day and age...falling in love with an Atheist! I wouldn't look twice at an atheist!

La Hawla Wa La Quwwata Illa Billah......................:facepalm:

[sister herb]

^ Well, people are different.

[Alpha Dude]

What kinds of Muslims are there in this day and age...falling in love with an Atheist! I wouldn't look twice at an atheist!

La Hawla Wa La Quwwata Illa Billah......................:facepalm:

This kind of judgement serves no purpose but to feed your own ego. Sorry to say, but you really need to think before you type or talk. Once a sentence leaves your mouth, it's can't be unsaid and will be recorded for you and written in your book of deeds.

[youngen]

What kinds of Muslims are there in this day and age...falling in love with an Atheist! I wouldn't look twice at an atheist!

La Hawla Wa La Quwwata Illa Billah......................:facepalm:

Everyone is different. Clearly I'm a desirable person, either that or she just wants my money, which I highly doubt.

You have to remember not everyone is fully devoted. Some are more than others. Clearly you're very pious, good for you.

[~ Sabr ~]

This kind of judgement serves no purpose but to feed your own ego. Sorry to say, but you really need to think before you type or talk. Once a sentence leaves your mouth, it's can't be unsaid and will be recorded for you and written in your book of deeds.

Back at you brother :thumbs_up If you love Allaah, you wouldn't even look at a non Muslim. Khalaas. :heated:

[~ Sabr ~]

Everyone is different. Clearly I'm a desirable person, either that or she just wants my money, which I highly doubt.

You have to remember not everyone is fully devoted. Some are more than others. Clearly you're very pious, good for you.

Or clearly she is misguided.

[Kiro]

Everyone is different. Clearly I'm a desirable person, either that or she just wants my money, which I highly doubt.

You have to remember not everyone is fully devoted. Some are more than others. Clearly you're very pious, good for you.

or maybe she's muslim by name

[EgyptPrincess]

Salaams brothers and sisters.

I am "youngens" boyfriend, the girl he is talking about in this thread. First and foremost I want to say so many of you have been utterly disrespectful and outright rude to him. He came here seeking advice from people he thought would have an idea about the situation we're in and you throw him to the wolves? Who the hell do you think you are saying I am misguided...! You're the misguided one sweetheart.

I know what I am doing is considered wrong by many but I don't give a flying f what anyone thinks. My parents treated me like crap and forced me into a religion that I only partially believed myself and my life was a living hell. I had absolutely no freedom and couldn't do anything for myself. Yes I love my parents very much but I refuse to let them control my life any more. My boyfriend is a better man than every muslim I ever met combined, he is intelligent, smart and gorgeous and I could not be happier with him. He is successful and I'll never leave him just because my controlling parents tell me to, who the hell do they think they are? The time for controlling and rules has passed, I am an adult now.

Yes it kills me that my parents disowned me, I love them very much but if kicking me out and disowning me is a tantrum to try and get me to bend to their will then it won't work. I hope one day they will understand my choice and accept the choices in life that I make, if they don't then, well some things just are not meant to be.

Also I wanted to point out that there are some aspects of Islam I do believe in and I think they're great for leading a healthy life. Praying, cleans the soul, fasting, good for health, no pork, also good for health.

So no I will never marry who my parents chose and live my life cleaning and cooking for someone who probably won't even appreciate me. My boyfriend is encouraging me to follow my dreams of becoming a biochemist and I am honestly the happiest I have been in a long time, if that's a crime against Allah then shoot me. I told him I would like it if he learnt about Islam because there are some things we can take from it to become a better person but no I do not believe in a dictator for an all loving god, sorry I just don't.

So get off your high horses and take a look at your own lives before you judge. I read some threads on here from some of the people criticising our relationship when your relationships are in tatters.

It's no wonder Islam gets a bad rep, people come here for advice and get smothered with "advice" which is not advice at all, rather just send me home to my miserable life, yeh cheers for the fantastic "advice".

[noraina]

This isn't all that uncommon. There are many 'cultural' Muslims, particularly teenagers - most of them will have nothing Muslim about them apart from their name and the fact they don't eat pork - that's it.

To the OP, obviously what the girl has done is utterly wrong and against Islam, the fact she is staying with you in this way does mean she is living in sin, maybe her iman is low or she had a strained relationship anyway with her family, Allah SWT knows best.

I can understand the reaction of her family, this is a major dishonour and insult to their image in the community and clearly they are going to feel hurt and upset - this is expected. What everyone else has suggested is the best option, look into Islam, learn about it and inshaAllah if it truly opens your heart then embrace this religion and marry her, if however you don't feel you can it would be best if your left her, for the both of you.

Perhaps if you did this, her family would eventually accept you - all I know is that any marriage or relationship, whatever religion or ethnicity you may be, in which there is a lack of family support, will have a rocky foundation. If she and her family completely cut off contact, you have to understand the pain it will cause her for the rest of her life - they're her parents!

Still, I appreciate your concern. :) I'm pretty sure most boyfriends wouldn't care about such matters and so the fact you are concerned enough to come on here and ask is nice. May God bring you to the truth.

[noraina]

We posted at the same time, in case you wonder why I've not taken EgyptPrincess's post into account.

[ramen-thelegend]

"youngens" boyfriend,

you mean girlfriend...right?

[EgyptPrincess]

you mean girlfriend...right?

Yes, he is my boyfriend. I am his girlfriend. Clearly a typo :embarrass

[~ Sabr ~]

Salaams brothers and sisters.

:wasalamex

May Allaah Guide you.

Fear Allaah - will you not die and answer to Him?! You think we give a bad name to Muslims? YOU are clearly giving a good name to Muslims, right?!

You're a joke to Islam. You have dishonored Islam and if you have any sense whatsoever, buck up and see the light.

[EgyptPrincess]

:wasalamex

May Allaah Guide you.

Fear Allaah - will you not die and answer to Him?! You think we give a bad name to Muslims? YOU are clearly giving a good name to Muslims, right?!

You're a joke to Islam. You have dishonored Islam and if you have any sense whatsoever, buck up and see the light.

I fear living miserably that is what I fear. From the islamic teachings my parents have taught me I don't even want to be muslim. I believe in god but not a vengeful, spiteful, narcissistic, jealous god who will punish me for all of eternity because I fell in love with a non muslim. Seems utterly ridiculous.

Yes send me negative reputation, don't worry I'm not hanging around. Me and my boyfriend found much better help from /r/exmuslim subreddit. Ironic isn't it, exmuslims actually being of more help and genuine advice than actual muslims. Some of the people in this thread are literally like my parents.

Do this or be disowned.
Do that or be disowned.

What type of life is that to live? If you want to live that way by all means do so. Not me, I prefer to be happy :p

[Kiro]

I fear living miserably that is what I fear. From the islamic teachings my parents have taught me I don't even want to be muslim. I believe in god but not a vengeful, spiteful, narcissistic, jealous god who will punish me for all of eternity because I fell in love with a non muslim. Seems utterly ridiculous.

Yes send me negative reputation, don't worry I'm not hanging around. Me and my boyfriend found much better help from /r/exmuslim subreddit. Ironic isn't it, exmuslims actually being of more help and genuine advice than actual muslims. Some of the people in this thread are literally like my parents.

Do this or be disowned.
Do that or be disowned.

What type of life is that to live? If you want to live that way by all means do so. Not me, I prefer to be happy :p

I'm sorry to say, just because you say you are Muslims and just because you believe in God and his messenger Muhammad SAW, doesn't make you Muslim.

[EgyptPrincess]

I'm sorry to say, just because you say you are Muslims and just because you believe in God and his messenger Muhammad SAW, doesn't make you Muslim.

I believe in god and I believe in Muhammed pbuh but I think the Quran isn't accurate at all. If that doesn't make me muslim then I hold my hand up and say I'm not muslim, whatever.

Oh and lastly, for those of you who think I'm being manipulated by an older man or he is taking advantage of me it is quite the opposite.

I say jump, he says yes and how high? So don't get it twisted.

Enjoy your lives.

[Kiro]

I believe in god and I believe in Muhammed pbuh but I think the Quran isn't accurate at all. If that doesn't make me muslim then I hold my hand up and say I'm not muslim, whatever.

Oh and lastly, for those of you who think I'm being manipulated by an older man or he is taking advantage of me it is quite the opposite.

I say jump, he says yes and how high? So don't get it twisted.

Enjoy your lives.

Do whatever you want and most likely you're not Muslim

[~ Sabr ~]

I fear living miserably that is what I fear. From the islamic teachings my parents have taught me I don't even want to be muslim. I believe in god but not a vengeful, spiteful, narcissistic, jealous god who will punish me for all of eternity because I fell in love with a non muslim. Seems utterly ridiculous.

Yes send me negative reputation, don't worry I'm not hanging around. Me and my boyfriend found much better help from /r/exmuslim subreddit. Ironic isn't it, exmuslims actually being of more help and genuine advice than actual muslims. Some of the people in this thread are literally like my parents.

Do this or be disowned.
Do that or be disowned.

What type of life is that to live? If you want to live that way by all means do so. Not me, I prefer to be happy :p

If you are happy without Islam, you can't even imagine how you will be in the Aakhirah. You will weep tears of blood. You will curse your boyfriend who led you to this.

I believe in god and I believe in Muhammed pbuh but I think the Quran isn't accurate at all. If that doesn't make me muslim then I hold my hand up and say I'm not muslim, whatever.

Oh and lastly, for those of you who think I'm being manipulated by an older man or he is taking advantage of me it is quite the opposite.

I say jump, he says yes and how high? So don't get it twisted.

Enjoy your lives.

You call yourself a Muslim but don't believe the Qur'aan.
You call yourself a Muslim but you have no interest in whether your title is Muslim or not.
You call yourself a Muslim but don't believe in Allaah's attributes.

What kind of a Muslim are you? Do you even understand what Muslim means?!

Good Luck, you will need it in the Aakhirah. When your eyes open and you will say O Allaah send me back! I will now abide by Your rules! But it will be too late....

May Allaah Guide you.

[Abu Musab]

Back at you brother :thumbs_up If you love Allaah, you wouldn't even look at a non Muslim. Khalaas. :heated:

Exactly. You have posted absolutely nothing wrong.

[Abu Musab]

I fear living miserably that is what I fear. From the islamic teachings my parents have taught me I don't even want to be muslim. I believe in god but not a vengeful, spiteful, narcissistic, jealous god who will punish me for all of eternity because I fell in love with a non muslim. Seems utterly ridiculous.

Yes send me negative reputation, don't worry I'm not hanging around. Me and my boyfriend found much better help from /r/exmuslim subreddit. Ironic isn't it, exmuslims actually being of more help and genuine advice than actual muslims. Some of the people in this thread are literally like my parents.

Do this or be disowned.
Do that or be disowned.

What type of life is that to live? If you want to live that way by all means do so. Not me, I prefer to be happy :p

So go then, stay together and be happy, your happiness will only last for a few years.

Then when you die, that's when eternity begins, and then you will never taste happiness ever again, rather what awaits you is the everlasting punishment of hell.

[sister herb]

Do whatever you want and most likely you're not Muslim

You can´t never say this about anyone else no matter what some member writes to here. Only Allah knows kind of matters and the decision who is Muslim and who isn´t belongs to Him only.

It is shocking to read how here is condemning the unknown person. Be supportive rather than condemnatory if you want to change someone´s way to think, believe or live.

[Kiro]

You can´t never say this about anyone else. Only Allah knows kind of matters.

I said 'most likely'

[~ Sabr ~]

You can´t never say this about anyone else no matter what some member writes to here. Only Allah knows kind of matters and the decision who is Muslim and who isn´t belongs to Him only.

It is shocking to read how here is condemning the unknown person. Be supportive rather than condemnatory if you want to change someone´s way to think, believe or live.

Not everyone is like you.

[noraina]

I believe in god and I believe in Muhammed pbuh but I think the Quran isn't accurate at all.

Assalamu alaykum

It would be interesting to know your reasoning about that? Considering the very fact that the existence of Allah SWT and his Prophet (pbuh) is confirmed only in the Qur'an.

But seriously this thread is going downhill from a positive beginning. Your initial post was quite aggressive and then received replies reflecting its tone, and I actually thought most of the people who responded to your boyfriend were quite polite and courteous in explaining to him. Why don't you try to learn something from the way he patiently and calmly spoke with everyone here, instead of coming straight out on the defensive? Maybe we could discuss things more effectively sister?

Wassalam

[sister herb]

As this member wrote: "From the islamic teachings my parents have taught me I don't even want to be muslim. I believe in god but not a vengeful, spiteful, narcissistic, jealous god who will punish me for all of eternity..." and as "but I think the Quran isn't accurate at all" you could easily understand how wrongly her´s parents have teached Islam to her and as well the Quran. Do not judge misguided person.

Members whose judge her because of hers few posts might have knowledge about Islam and a lot but knowledge doesn´t every times guarantee also the wisdom of the heart.

Ok, I stop my ranting now. And Allah knows the best.

[~ Sabr ~]

Members who judge her because of hers few posts might have knowledge about Islam and a lot but knowledge doesn´t every times guarantee also the wisdom of the heart.

You couldn't be more wrong. No one is judging, we are trying to open the boyfriend/girlfriends eyes. But you cannot see that and neither can they.

This thread is a waste of time.

[sister herb]

^ Dear sister, this thread is full of judging. I am not surprise at all if they decided to ask advice from some ex-muslim.

If they can´t see others pursuit to advice them, then the next time it could to be a good idea to choose your words by the other way. If the message is not received, the fault may not be recipients of the message, but the message itself.

[~ Sabr ~]

^ Dear sister, this thread is full of judging. I am not surprise at all if they decided to ask advice from some ex-muslim.

If they can´t see others pursuit to advice them, then the next time it could to be a good idea to choose your words by the other way. If the message is not received, the fault may not be recipients of the message, but the message itself.

Dear Sister,

You are an ex-atheist, correct? You advise the girlfriend then. I'm sure your advice will be better than the scholars of this forum, seeing as you have lived it.

[sister herb]

Dear Sister,

You are an ex-atheist, correct? You advise the girlfriend then. I'm sure your advice will be better than the scholars of this forum, seeing as you have lived it.

This has nothing to do as being an ex-atheist. I am sure she knows what kind of God Islam teaches in real. (What seems to be quite opposite than she has been teached in hers home.) Advice her? I already did so. As showing to her some understanding in hers situation and compassionate.

May Allah quide her and us all to understand His path better.

[~ Sabr ~]

This has nothing to do as being an ex-atheist. I am sure she knows what kind of God Islam teaches in real. (What seems to be quite opposite than she has been teached in hers home.) Advice her? I already did so. As showing to her some understanding in hers situation and compassionate.

What is there to understand?! She fell in love with a NON MUSLIM. If you love Allaah and consider yourself Muslim, you will NOT LOOK TWICE at* a NON MUSLIM.

May Allah quide her and us all to understand His path better.

Ameen

Anyway, I'm just repeating myself, may Allaah Guide her, Ameen.:skeleton:

I'm out of this thread +o(

[sister herb]

So now I make dua that Allah will guide her.

[Alpha Dude]

What is there to understand?! She fell in love with a NON MUSLIM. If you love Allaah and consider yourself Muslim, you will NOT LOOK TWICE at* a NON MUSLIM.

....People are at different levels in Islam. Nobody is born with 100% understanding and love and connection with Allah. Anyone who has a proper understanding of Islam and taqwa will not get involved with any man/woman before marriage. That's obvious and doesn't need stating so boldly like you keep saying.

The girl in question has grown up in a situation where she has not had proper Islam instilled into her heart, only rules/regulations drummed into her and as a result she has rebelled against Islam.

And here you are making obvious and pointless statements on how if she loved Allah she wouldn't have fallen in love with him (well, duh) - but how the heck does you posting that that help her? That is your point in posting right, to help her? Or am right in thinking that you just want to boost your own ego by egotistical remarks?

You need to use your words carefully as what we say has an effect on people and be wise in what you say. Telling her that she's going to hell etc. etc. is true but looking at her context and personality you should realize that it is not going to help her become closer to Islam.

[~ Sabr ~]

Seriously, stop posting.

....

..... Islam is black and white. There is no room for in between things! You either take Islam as a whole or you don't take it at all.

[sister herb]

You think you are better than the scholars of this forum, Alpha Dude?

Dear sister,

Scholars are no more than humans. It is allowed if we disagree with them too. It is not a major crime. Disagree doesn´t automaticly mean that we would think we are better with knowledge than them. Better with many other matters we might be (I didn´t write we are but it´s sometimes possible) like with wisdom, life experience or empathy skills.

[s.ali123]

You think you are better than the scholars of this forum, Alpha Dude?

And your posts help her, is that what you are saying? You have given AMAZING ADVICE and the girl has agreed to leave her boyfriend and become all Islamic...NOT.

Grow up, child. Islam is black and white. There is no room for in between things! You either take Islam as a whole or you don't take it at all.

Sabr please have some "Sabr" like your name. First you were targeting the boyfriend, then his GF and then other muslims as well! What is that reminding sister_herb of her ex-athiesm. Prophet clearly stopped people from reminding of what they used to do before Islam! Fear Allah!
The least you want is to be held accounted on Day of Judgement for turning someone away from Islam. Remember that. Even though this video is about speaking against other religions, but it also advices for what you are doing here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mbCVvh_LmE

[Serinity]

I believe in god and I believe in Muhammed pbuh but I think the Quran isn't accurate at all. If that doesn't make me muslim then I hold my hand up and say I'm not muslim, whatever.

Oh and lastly, for those of you who think I'm being manipulated by an older man or he is taking advantage of me it is quite the opposite.

I say jump, he says yes and how high? So don't get it twisted.

Enjoy your lives.

That is clear cut kufr you know?

May Allah SWT guide you. Ameen. Please take that back. you recognise you are sinning right? At least RECOGNISE it. Don't justify it.

I am just asking you to turn to Islam. you've a boy friend, it is haram, yes. But recognise you are sinning.

Remember, not all of us are at the same level, but please at least stay muslim.

[Serinity]

Btw, guys, Ibn Talib was a non muslim, yet The Prophet SAW loved him SAW. afaik.

What would the Prophet SAW say if he SAW saw us say such stuff? please, look at the incident of taif.

And not looking at a kafir a second time? I mean, YES, having a kafir as a boyfriend/girlfriend is very very bad...... But wasn't Ibn talib a kafir?

Just know that: having a kafir as a boyfriend, is haram,

And repent from saying kufr about The Quran.

Allahu alam.

[crimsontide06]

This part, please watch the 1st 10 minutes of the video(the whole thing is good) I posted because the speaker talks about this issue.

I believe in god but not a vengeful, spiteful, narcissistic, jealous god who will punish me for all of eternity because I fell in love with a non muslim. Seems utterly ridiculous.

[Bhabha]

To the OP and his Girlfriend,

I understand where both of you are coming from. I also understand the "cultural" Muslim versus the teachings of Islam and I know that the cultural Muslim is very off putting from actually learning about Islam and loving Allah, and the teachings of the Prophet. There's also a slight difference between being an 'atheist' and being 'agnostic', sometimes people tend to confuse the two.

Anyhow, when I a non-Muslim, I had Muslim friends who didn't follow Islam, but followed the "Cultural Muslim", you know the one who is a walking contradiction (if you know Islam), and the one that you can sort of hang out with, but you end up abhorring Islam and all Muslims. I was like this before, I used to detest Muslims and detest Islam, because I learned Islam WITH the cultural Muslim, not the follower of Islam. Anyhow, I had friends from all backgrounds, Turkish, Afghani, Pakistan, Egyptian, etc. Since I am a lover of foods.. I went over to their homes a LOT to eat and stuff my face with pastries from all over the place, plus all of their moms really liked me. I was a NON-Muslim, but I wasn't a drinker, an alcoholic, I didn't use drugs, I called my mother and I let her know where I went, whom I went with and when I was coming back. I respected the elders, I helped around the house, I had the normal temperamental tantrums of a teenager of course. Just because I was not a Muslim, did not mean that I was a walking devil, or someone horrible absent of morals or decent thoughts. Each different place had different interpretations about "Islam", in some places I felt a sexist kind of thing about Islam, where the women were sort of the maids, the servants. I remember going to a friends house with my mother and father, they were also friends with the family. We were invited in, and the father sat by himself while his wife worked in the kitchen and served my mother AND father food. I was a little repulsed by having the mother do all of the work, while the father sat his lazy bum and just looked at his wife like a maid... I knew they were Muslims, so I automatically assumed that Islam was teaching this to Muslims... then I saw another family, friends of ours as well, I saw the mother and father walk out of the grocery store and the WIFE was carrying, LITERALLY carrying everything, and the husband was so LAZY. My mother commented and she was appalled, we also knew they were Muslims.... Everywhere we saw, was this repulsive behavior of MEN, NOT acting at ALL like men, but acting like the owners of the cattle that pulled their groceries, made their food and served at their feet. We were always appalled at seeing this. I don't think I have ever see my mother carry something, or serve food to a strange man, LET alone invite a strange man into our home and have my mother serve a strange man food, while my father sits like a lazy person and watches.... and we were not Muslims. However, the image that I got from the "cultural" Muslim, the one who calls themselves by the name of Muslim, but doesn't follow the teachings of Islam. They didn't even pray, the daughters didn't wear hijab, etc, etc, but were "Muslim" by culture, by birth and not in anything else.

My idea of Islam changed when I went overseas to a Muslim country. When I saw Muslim men CARRYING the groceries, while their wives walked by their side. When I saw Muslim men caring for their women like princesses, queens and not like maids or cattle. I remember going to a friend's house, and she was married. However, I never saw her husband at all, lol. Unlike my previous experience with Muslim families in North America, where I had the unfortunate circumstance of actually meeting the male relatives (I dislike talking to guys....), I didn't have to pass by this horrible awkward experience with her, because we were secluded and in our own little world. I don't want to say that she was also not a cultural Muslim, but she wasn't just "muslim" by birth, but she ascribed to many things that I had never really seen or experienced with other muslims in North America.. I felt a different sensation, not a repulsion, not an abhorrence or the desire to detest Islam or Muslims, but a desire to learn, to REALLY want to learn and it was her genuine love for Islam that motivated me, not this 'cultural' thing that is so superficial and really absent of meaning.

To the OP's girlfriend, she posted here, I know your current position is one that comes from learning about Islam from the "cultural Muslim", because you were forced, coerced into following things without actually believing them. I saw that you don't want to marry a man that your parents choose, or marry and cook and clean and be a 'maid'. In Islam, you don't have to MARRY someone that your parents choose, you have a choice and that choice is protected. You can say yes or no, it is up to you. The reason why some parents choose is because it is easier for the marriage to go through. The parent choosing is a CULTURAL thing, otherwise if it was inscribed in Islam, I would be single for the rest of my life, because my parents will never choose a spouse for me. (Even though I would personally prefer it, I know my mom has good taste :P) You are also not required to be a MAID, in Sharia law, it is the responsibility of the husband to provide for this, or to help if he is financially UNABLE to provide.

I remember I took a class on Islam in undergrad, well several. One of the weeks was about the rights of women in Islam and it was my FAVORITE week. Women are both protected AND liberated in Islam. Our financial rights are INSCRIBED in Islam, the min. rights of property, etc. are clearly outlined as at least a base upon which agreements between the husband and wife can build on, but at least there is a MIN! In other kinds of religions and in secular law, there is no 'min' kind of rights that protect the women to the same extent as those inscribed in Islam. Marriage between a Muslim man and a Muslim woman is preferable because in Islamic law there is a DEMAND on the husband to keep certain responsibilities. In Islam, it is the husband who is endowed with the financial responsibility of maintaining the home. The wife is allowed to work, but she is not required to contribute a SINGLE cent of her earning, while the husband has to contribute ALL and provide (help clean, or hire someone who can clean for the wife), clothe the children, shelter, food, etc.

I know this is a huge post and maybe it will not be read, but I wanted to let you know that there are certain things that you shouldn't confuse between Islam and the cultural Muslim. Take apart the things that your parents have presented you as "Islam" and compare them with the Quran, the Hadiths and scholars about issues and open your heart, your mind and clear any negative thoughts you might have about Islam as presented in the news, through posts that you might read about people who confuse 'culture' with Islam and relax. Islam is SO BEAUTIFUL and when I converted to Islam, I became a productive person, with meaning in life. I became focused, concentrated, and I did so well in my school and my studies, I was more in tuned with myself because I let go of things that were so superficial. Yes, I am still human and unfortunately I judge... but Islam and constant reminders help me and rectify my negative thoughts that I can have against people and helps me to tame them. There's an inner conscious that sort of springs up and tries to redirect you. I found clarity and goodness in Islam, but I would have never opened up my heart to it, if I would have secluded myself to learning about it from the 'cultural' Muslim, who is Muslim by birth, but not a follower of Islam by heart, that is who you should seek to find and perhaps both of you can make that journey together.

[EgyptPrincess]

To the OP and his Girlfriend,

I understand where both of you are coming from. I also understand the "cultural" Muslim versus the teachings of Islam and I know that the cultural Muslim is very off putting from actually learning about Islam and loving Allah, and the teachings of the Prophet. There's also a slight difference between being an 'atheist' and being 'agnostic', sometimes people tend to confuse the two.

Anyhow, when I a non-Muslim, I had Muslim friends who didn't follow Islam, but followed the "Cultural Muslim", you know the one who is a walking contradiction (if you know Islam), and the one that you can sort of hang out with, but you end up abhorring Islam and all Muslims. I was like this before, I used to detest Muslims and detest Islam, because I learned Islam WITH the cultural Muslim, not the follower of Islam. Anyhow, I had friends from all backgrounds, Turkish, Afghani, Pakistan, Egyptian, etc. Since I am a lover of foods.. I went over to their homes a LOT to eat and stuff my face with pastries from all over the place, plus all of their moms really liked me. I was a NON-Muslim, but I wasn't a drinker, an alcoholic, I didn't use drugs, I called my mother and I let her know where I went, whom I went with and when I was coming back. I respected the elders, I helped around the house, I had the normal temperamental tantrums of a teenager of course. Just because I was not a Muslim, did not mean that I was a walking devil, or someone horrible absent of morals or decent thoughts. Each different place had different interpretations about "Islam", in some places I felt a sexist kind of thing about Islam, where the women were sort of the maids, the servants. I remember going to a friends house with my mother and father, they were also friends with the family. We were invited in, and the father sat by himself while his wife worked in the kitchen and served my mother AND father food. I was a little repulsed by having the mother do all of the work, while the father sat his lazy bum and just looked at his wife like a maid... I knew they were Muslims, so I automatically assumed that Islam was teaching this to Muslims... then I saw another family, friends of ours as well, I saw the mother and father walk out of the grocery store and the WIFE was carrying, LITERALLY carrying everything, and the husband was so LAZY. My mother commented and she was appalled, we also knew they were Muslims.... Everywhere we saw, was this repulsive behavior of MEN, NOT acting at ALL like men, but acting like the owners of the cattle that pulled their groceries, made their food and served at their feet. We were always appalled at seeing this. I don't think I have ever see my mother carry something, or serve food to a strange man, LET alone invite a strange man into our home and have my mother serve a strange man food, while my father sits like a lazy person and watches.... and we were not Muslims. However, the image that I got from the "cultural" Muslim, the one who calls themselves by the name of Muslim, but doesn't follow the teachings of Islam. They didn't even pray, the daughters didn't wear hijab, etc, etc, but were "Muslim" by culture, by birth and not in anything else.

My idea of Islam changed when I went overseas to a Muslim country. When I saw Muslim men CARRYING the groceries, while their wives walked by their side. When I saw Muslim men caring for their women like princesses, queens and not like maids or cattle. I remember going to a friend's house, and she was married. However, I never saw her husband at all, lol. Unlike my previous experience with Muslim families in North America, where I had the unfortunate circumstance of actually meeting the male relatives (I dislike talking to guys....), I didn't have to pass by this horrible awkward experience with her, because we were secluded and in our own little world. I don't want to say that she was also not a cultural Muslim, but she wasn't just "muslim" by birth, but she ascribed to many things that I had never really seen or experienced with other muslims in North America.. I felt a different sensation, not a repulsion, not an abhorrence or the desire to detest Islam or Muslims, but a desire to learn, to REALLY want to learn and it was her genuine love for Islam that motivated me, not this 'cultural' thing that is so superficial and really absent of meaning.

To the OP's girlfriend, she posted here, I know your current position is one that comes from learning about Islam from the "cultural Muslim", because you were forced, coerced into following things without actually believing them. I saw that you don't want to marry a man that your parents choose, or marry and cook and clean and be a 'maid'. In Islam, you don't have to MARRY someone that your parents choose, you have a choice and that choice is protected. You can say yes or no, it is up to you. The reason why some parents choose is because it is easier for the marriage to go through. The parent choosing is a CULTURAL thing, otherwise if it was inscribed in Islam, I would be single for the rest of my life, because my parents will never choose a spouse for me. (Even though I would personally prefer it, I know my mom has good taste :P) You are also not required to be a MAID, in Sharia law, it is the responsibility of the husband to provide for this, or to help if he is financially UNABLE to provide.

I remember I took a class on Islam in undergrad, well several. One of the weeks was about the rights of women in Islam and it was my FAVORITE week. Women are both protected AND liberated in Islam. Our financial rights are INSCRIBED in Islam, the min. rights of property, etc. are clearly outlined as at least a base upon which agreements between the husband and wife can build on, but at least there is a MIN! In other kinds of religions and in secular law, there is no 'min' kind of rights that protect the women to the same extent as those inscribed in Islam. Marriage between a Muslim man and a Muslim woman is preferable because in Islamic law there is a DEMAND on the husband to keep certain responsibilities. In Islam, it is the husband who is endowed with the financial responsibility of maintaining the home. The wife is allowed to work, but she is not required to contribute a SINGLE cent of her earning, while the husband has to contribute ALL and provide (help clean, or hire someone who can clean for the wife), clothe the children, shelter, food, etc.

I know this is a huge post and maybe it will not be read, but I wanted to let you know that there are certain things that you shouldn't confuse between Islam and the cultural Muslim. Take apart the things that your parents have presented you as "Islam" and compare them with the Quran, the Hadiths and scholars about issues and open your heart, your mind and clear any negative thoughts you might have about Islam as presented in the news, through posts that you might read about people who confuse 'culture' with Islam and relax. Islam is SO BEAUTIFUL and when I converted to Islam, I became a productive person, with meaning in life. I became focused, concentrated, and I did so well in my school and my studies, I was more in tuned with myself because I let go of things that were so superficial. Yes, I am still human and unfortunately I judge... but Islam and constant reminders help me and rectify my negative thoughts that I can have against people and helps me to tame them. There's an inner conscious that sort of springs up and tries to redirect you. I found clarity and goodness in Islam, but I would have never opened up my heart to it, if I would have secluded myself to learning about it from the 'cultural' Muslim, who is Muslim by birth, but not a follower of Islam by heart, that is who you should seek to find and perhaps both of you can make that journey together.

Mashallah thank you for your post. Yes I did read it :)

Perhaps my view of Islam is warped due to my parents overly strict nature and enforcing it on me without explaining why. I ask "why" and he says because the Quran says so or because I said so and never give a straight answer. If I do take your advice and give Islam some proper attention and perhaps learn to understand it for myself, I may end up with a similar view you now how. There still lies the problem of my boyfriend, I absolutely refuse to not see him I don't care what anyone says unfortunately.

Maybe I will learn in my own time about Islam with my own understanding rather than what my parents push in front of me. You know they use to make me read 30 minutes of Quran each night, I just to just put it aside and go straight to sleep, that is how much I disliked being forced.

Thank you sister, I will think it over. Ultimately what I will do nobody knows, not even me at this point but one thing is certain, I am not ending my love for him. I can't do it.

[Kiro]

Mashallah thank you for your post. Yes I did read it :)

Perhaps my view of Islam is warped due to my parents overly strict nature and enforcing it on me without explaining why. I ask "why" and he says because the Quran says so or because I said so and never give a straight answer. If I do take your advice and give Islam some proper attention and perhaps learn to understand it for myself, I may end up with a similar view you now how. There still lies the problem of my boyfriend, I absolutely refuse to not see him I don't care what anyone says unfortunately.

Maybe I will learn in my own time about Islam with my own understanding rather than what my parents push in front of me. You know they use to make me read 30 minutes of Quran each night, I just to just put it aside and go straight to sleep, that is how much I disliked being forced.

Thank you sister, I will think it over. Ultimately what I will do nobody knows, not even me at this point but one thing is certain, I am not ending my love for him. I can't do it.

That is good to hear, sorry if I ever sounded harsh.

It's best if you start from scratch. It doesn't matter if it is the basics, we are all learning

its a common problem. The parents focus too much on the what and not the why

trying watching short Islamic clips from The Merciful Servant on Youtube

[Serinity]

Just start small, read Quran more, In shaa' Allah, one day the love of Allah and your love for Allah will increase , so that you can leave the forbidden.

[noraina]

It can happen so easily, where rather than love for Allah SWT, parents teach their children only about His punishment. This is just not the right away to bring true love for the deen into your children, Allah SWT is so compassionate and merciful, in the hadith Qudsi: 'My mercy takes precedence over My wrath.'

Reading the Qur'an, taking time to think, praying at night, is something we should all do as Muslims. :) I read somewhere that iman is like a garment, it can wear out overtime so we should constantly strive to renew it - and this so easily done, just by some reflection.

May Allah SWT allow us all to better ourselves as Muslims, especially with Ramadan around the corner!

[Serinity]

AFAIK if you acknowledge that you sin, and acknowledge your Lord, Allah SWT. And repent for your kufr. you are still muslim, even with a kafir boyfriend.

May Allah SWT guide you. Ameen.

Try to seek the love of Allah SWT.

I learnt from my relatives that as a child one should ONLY know about the love and mercy of Allah SWT. When the child loves Allah SWT and the Prophet SAW it is easier to follow the commandments. When the child reaches puberty, one should then remind the kid of the punishment of Allah, and to beware, etc.

When you are married, one should beware of one's right and have hope and fear of Allah, hope for Allah's Mercy, and fear for Allah's wrath.

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.

And Allah SWT knows best.

[s.ali123]

Mashallah thank you for your post. Yes I did read it :)

Perhaps my view of Islam is warped due to my parents overly strict nature and enforcing it on me without explaining why. I ask "why" and he says because the Quran says so or because I said so and never give a straight answer. If I do take your advice and give Islam some proper attention and perhaps learn to understand it for myself, I may end up with a similar view you now how. There still lies the problem of my boyfriend, I absolutely refuse to not see him I don't care what anyone says unfortunately.

Maybe I will learn in my own time about Islam with my own understanding rather than what my parents push in front of me. You know they use to make me read 30 minutes of Quran each night, I just to just put it aside and go straight to sleep, that is how much I disliked being forced.

Thank you sister, I will think it over. Ultimately what I will do nobody knows, not even me at this point but one thing is certain, I am not ending my love for him. I can't do it.

I myself am a product of strictly cultural Islam. "Pakistani Version" :P . I learned things over time. And subhanallah I can tell how much it is difference. And I have gone through many different levels of understandings. So don't take the religion from your parents blindly without giving it a thought.
With that said, in the end it is your choice. Quran clearly says that whoever wants to follow, follow it, whoever does not, dont. Only Allah is the master of day of judgement so he decide each one of us inidividually. As for us, Prophet clearly said in hadith to not even think that you are better than anyone, even a non believer. Because it may be the case that someone go back from iman at the death bed, while other non believer accept imaan on death bed :)
Prophet himself never forced anyone to accept Islam.
From my own experience when I learned more about it, I found it beautiful (not the one what people in my country do). And I can easily say I would feel emptiness inside me with me and lack of purpose and reason.

May Allah help you :)

[Bhabha]

Mashallah thank you for your post. Yes I did read it :)

Perhaps my view of Islam is warped due to my parents overly strict nature and enforcing it on me without explaining why. I ask "why" and he says because the Quran says so or because I said so and never give a straight answer. If I do take your advice and give Islam some proper attention and perhaps learn to understand it for myself, I may end up with a similar view you now how. There still lies the problem of my boyfriend, I absolutely refuse to not see him I don't care what anyone says unfortunately.

Maybe I will learn in my own time about Islam with my own understanding rather than what my parents push in front of me. You know they use to make me read 30 minutes of Quran each night, I just to just put it aside and go straight to sleep, that is how much I disliked being forced.

Thank you sister, I will think it over. Ultimately what I will do nobody knows, not even me at this point but one thing is certain, I am not ending my love for him. I can't do it.

You are most welcome. I think that if my parents would have enforced a religious view on me I would also try to run, because no one likes to be constrained and reprimanded and told what to do.

Only Allah can guide your heart, and parents should love their children and help them with little pulls here and there. Ultimately everything is left for Allah.

Perhaps Allah sent you someone so that you both can discover and learn about Islam together. I do not know and no one else can know about the reason you met this person and you feel this way. But as advise from someone who is older (maybe not wiser lol) but a little more experienced. There are things that once done will be hard to take back. Like when you release feathers in the wind, catching them is hard once they are up and running. So ask for guidance from Allah before speaking and doing things, he guides and holds your heart.

[Muslim Woman]

I prefer to be happy :p

for how long ? Only in this world or also in hereafter ?

[Serinity]

Seeking happiness in this world only is nothing short of delusion. Afaik. I pity the one who chases the dunya, you are running after a fading shadow.

And Allah knows best.

[Scimitar]

Mashallah thank you for your post. Yes I did read it :)

Perhaps my view of Islam is warped due to my parents overly strict nature and enforcing it on me without explaining why. I ask "why" and he says because the Quran says so or because I said so and never give a straight answer. If I do take your advice and give Islam some proper attention and perhaps learn to understand it for myself, I may end up with a similar view you now how. There still lies the problem of my boyfriend, I absolutely refuse to not see him I don't care what anyone says unfortunately.

Maybe I will learn in my own time about Islam with my own understanding rather than what my parents push in front of me. You know they use to make me read 30 minutes of Quran each night, I just to just put it aside and go straight to sleep, that is how much I disliked being forced.

Thank you sister, I will think it over. Ultimately what I will do nobody knows, not even me at this point but one thing is certain, I am not ending my love for him. I can't do it.

Your ignorance is astounding me, seriously.

When ya boifriend dumps ya - you aint got nowhere left to go - not ya parents, nope.... and you gonna find out who ya real friends are when you hop around from place to place and have ya friedns dogs come up and sniff ya food.

I'm not even gonna ask you about your sleeping arrangements. Astagfirulah - how long will your chastity last? that's assuming you've still got it intact.

Not to mention the slur your parents are facing from the backlash of the Muslim community all because your 17 year old teen seld wanted to have a BF :D shame on you.

You aint no sister of mine.

And ya boi - Youngen, shoulda been responsible enough to know that messing with Muslim girls is not as straight forward as messing with girls from his own camp. It's a whole other world of considerations.... but noooo - young morons with balls for brains, and youg sisters with fantasies of being "Modern" lol - fail in my eyes.

My advice?

Live your life in the direction you are heading in - go full kuffar - there's no such thing as half way Muslims.

Scimi

[Scimitar]

You repaid your parents for the love they gave you throughout your life, by choosing a random man who you barely know, over them - wallahi you are an ungrateful soul.

You made your bed - now you must live with that.

Your parents suffer in silence - you remain unaware of the stress this has put on their relationship. They cannot even taste the salt in their food anymore.

They were willing to forgive you, had you listened to them and done your own research in order to understand why having BF is haraam. But no - you just threw a slap to their face, showing how much you think your parents are idiots and don't know anything about islam - guess what?

NEITHER DO YOU... AND THAT'S MORE TRUE OF YOU THAN YOUR PARENTS.

How the heck did you have the nerve to join here and attempt to justify your choices?

NO MUSLIM WILL SUPPORT YOUR DECISION TO HAVE A BOYFRIEND - MUSLIM OR NOT MUSLIM - BOYFRIEND = HARAAM.

Wallahi I feel for your parents. With daughters like you - who needs enemies?

Scimi

[Serinity]

"modern" today is actually being morally backwards and bankrupt.. tbh.

[s.ali123]

Your ignorance is astounding me, seriously.

When ya boifriend dumps ya - you aint got nowhere left to go - not ya parents, nope.... and you gonna find out who ya real friends are when you hop around from place to place and have ya friedns dogs come up and sniff ya food.

I'm not even gonna ask you about your sleeping arrangements. Astagfirulah - how long will your chastity last? that's assuming you've still got it intact.

Not to mention the slur your parents are facing from the backlash of the Muslim community all because your 17 year old teen seld wanted to have a BF :D shame on you.

You aint no sister of mine.

And ya boi - Youngen, shoulda been responsible enough to know that messing with Muslim girls is not as straight forward as messing with girls from his own camp. It's a whole other world of considerations.... but noooo - young morons with balls for brains, and youg sisters with fantasies of being "Modern" lol - fail in my eyes.

My advice?

Live your life in the direction you are heading in - go full kuffar - there's no such thing as half way Muslims.

Scimi

Subhanallah. Really many times I am amazed at the condition of ummah. If your reply to the condition of girl is to ask her to go to "full kufr", I don't know what it would benefit you or her. Why don't you advise her properly and nicely so she can "Full Muslim".Hating someone never serves anyone. Have some compassion and place yourself in her shoes and think. This is not the first time when putting hard rules without understanding in upbringing someone backfired.

And you never know what good may come for her in the long run. Instead of just scolding and asking her to leave Islam totally, guide her to be best if advice. Such comments will serve no one exceot your own ego. Her parents have scolded her enough already by kicking her(which again is totally unwise and inappropriate thing to do) and that did not bring her closer tk religion. And you think your scolding behavior will her closer to Islam. Subhanallah.

[EgyptPrincess]

Your ignorance is astounding me, seriously.

When ya boifriend dumps ya - you aint got nowhere left to go - not ya parents, nope.... and you gonna find out who ya real friends are when you hop around from place to place and have ya friedns dogs come up and sniff ya food.

I'm not even gonna ask you about your sleeping arrangements. Astagfirulah - how long will your chastity last? that's assuming you've still got it intact.

Not to mention the slur your parents are facing from the backlash of the Muslim community all because your 17 year old teen seld wanted to have a BF :D shame on you.

You aint no sister of mine.

And ya boi - Youngen, shoulda been responsible enough to know that messing with Muslim girls is not as straight forward as messing with girls from his own camp. It's a whole other world of considerations.... but noooo - young morons with balls for brains, and youg sisters with fantasies of being "Modern" lol - fail in my eyes.

My advice?

Live your life in the direction you are heading in - go full kuffar - there's no such thing as half way Muslims.

Scimi

Yes keep throwing your insults to me. I couldn't care less.

I know you're under this delusion that I'll be dumped and throw to the side in a couple months or years and be by myself, that might be true, who knows.. but at least I found out by myself and actually LEARNT something. I believe what my boyfriend says and he backs it up with action. He's put his hand on his heart and promised that whatever happens he will never leave me with nothing or nobody. He said he'd sooner buy me my own home than see my on the streets or living miserable with my parents under their wrath. Whether you believe this is irrelevant, I believe it.

He is already going to help me financially with university, he is committed, we both are and we want our relationship to last a long time. Obviously we can never say it will last forever has most relationships don't, halal or otherwise... One thing is certain, I would rather take my chances with him, someone I actually love and care for than something my parents forced me to be with who makes my skin crawl simply touching him.

s.ali123 Thank you so much for your helpful PM. I am unable to reply to your PM as I don't have 50 posts so I will just reply with it here.

Salaams, I will explain a little.

Every since I can remember I have felt like I was in chains, I was young yes and so I listened to my parents, mostly my father and sure there are rules every child must follow but when I am older enough to start thinking for myself about god, naturally I have questions, and every child likes to ask questions, it's the natural process of learning. If I tell you I saw a gorilla at the zoo and you've never seen one before, what will your first question be? What did it look like probably... right? How big was it? etc.

But when I ask my parents questions about some things they taught me I just got told "don't question Quran" "don't question your father" and "because prophet Muhammed pbuh did it" which just wasn't a sufficient answer for me so I was always left thinking "is this actually real or just a story, like the bible"?

Then as I grew older I am not allowed to mix with boys, I am not even allowed to sit next to them in school when I was 14 years old in the dinner hall. I am not allowed to sit next to them in class even when our teacher says "boy girl boy girl" seating structure, this is to prevent boys grouping together and girls grouping together because we don't get much work done because we're always talking and not paying attention. Just little things, zero freedom whatsoever it was horrible.

So I just started to think "what the hell" and started to go against my father and I started to enjoy school much more, my grades improved because I was happy and wanted to learn. Still I am young like 14 and he is forcing me to the masjid but at this point it is worthless because I don't have a foundation of knowledge and belief so I'm at the masjid and I'm just thinking it's a waste of time and so I don't like going there. Then my father found I was talking to boys from my school on facebook, not sexually or anything just normal talking about various things, going to see movies with our friends, going to the park or whatever and he disabled my facebook and told me not to mix with boys. Again I am just crying inside because I and in chains with everything. I cannot even go to the damn theme park because our group was 6 girls and 8 boys. It was organised for a long time and I really wanted to go and have fun but he forbade it.

My life was such misery and my advice to you, if you have a daughter then teach her Islam of course but if she asks you questions please for the love of god explain the answer, don't just tell her the answer. If 5+5=10 don't just say "because it does" explain WHY it does. You understand?

Also do not put handcuffs on every aspect of her life. Allow her to have boy friends and girl friends, allow her to mix with both genders because this will teach her valuable lessons about life. If I listened to my father and followed his rule I would end up killing myself. My life would be like this.

no education
no life experience
no friends
married to someone chosen for me
cleaning and cooking and that's it
getting fat because I get no exercise
live only to please my husband

What the hell kind of life is that? I may as well be a slave from the 1800's You mention you are doing an MSc in Munich, wow that is great, I am also going to university to study biochemistry, something I love but my father did not support me going to university and was forbidding it. So you see how happy you are to go and study in Munich? Make sure you allow your daughter the same opportunities your father has allowed you otherwise she might resent you because her soul is crying out to explore the world and you are keeping her in a house like maid.

I wish inshallah the best for you and your family in the future. Teach her Islam by all means, but please please do not use it as a prison cell to keep her from knowing anything about anything.

[*charisma*]

@EgyptPrincess

I do believe deep down you still believe in Allah and the core fundamentals of Islam, but you may not understand everything due to the way you were brought up. But you are old enough to understand that your parents probably had limited knowledge or only raised you the best they knew how, so if there's misconceptions about Islam that you have you should make it a duty on yourself to learn them and ask questions. Don't correlate Islam with the treatment of your parents, I know you're still really upset with them.

This forum isn't perfect, and you may get a lot of varying personalities, but go back to learning about Islam in a condition that is most comforting to you without all of the distractions of what you've been through (ie. go to a mosque and ask questions, talk to a Muslim that you can trust be it online or otherwise, or read books on your own). Your boyfriend can learn with you or you can take time apart until you figure things out. You've committed sins, there's no doubt about that, but Allah will forgive you as long as you repent sincerely. If your boyfriend truly cares about you he will help you mend the relationship with you and your family, and also preserve your honor, but you know that's not going to happen unless you also want it. I know being in love heals you in a way, and therefore you don't want to venture away from what's making you feel good, but you know there's a lot of things you have to fix in your life, and maybe you don't know how to do that yet. Your boyfriend seems to want to learn as well, so both of you can make an effort. Maybe your fears of doing this is that you've already sinned so what's the point if you already know its going to be haram to end up together?? Well, if he becomes a Muslim, his previous sins are erased, and if you renew your faith and repent, then inshallah Allah will also forgive you your sins..and it's very possible that under halal circumstances and with the blessings of your parents or male guardians you can get married and move on with your life. So don't be so stubborn against doing everything the right way...

At the end of the day, please don't forget that all of what your parents did is only what they thought was the best way to raise you. No one teaches us how to raise our kids, we learn from how we were raised. Parents love their children unconditionally, and i KNOW you still love them, but it's not fair to punish them like this. You come from them and they've raised you all your life, they're going to be angry with you no doubt, but you both need to find a platform for communicating and stop blaming one another for every little mistake. You need your family and they need you, even if you're on different pages.

And as I've said previously..you can feel free to ask questions about any doubts you have about Islam and about the things that don't make sense if that's the only thing stopping you from completely jumping into Islam..if it's more than that and you want someone to talk about it then you can always message me (or I can send you my email, just let me know). There's nothing wrong with wanting to inquire about our religion, we are supposed to do that, so shame on those that are making you feel otherwise.

[Serinity]

@EqyptPrincess

Feel free to post any question that is preventing you from being 100% committed.

Watch this; Three reasons make some born Muslims atheists (or non pracitcing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcJ6uy9w4yw

[youngen]

I do believe deep down you still believe in Allah and the core fundamentals of Islam, but you may not understand everything due to the way you were brought up. But you are old enough to understand that your parents probably had limited knowledge or only raised you the best they knew how, so if there's misconceptions about Islam that you have you should make it a duty on yourself to learn them and ask questions. Don't correlate Islam with the treatment of your parents, I know you're still really upset with them.

This forum isn't perfect, and you may get a lot of varying personalities, but go back to learning about Islam in a condition that is most comforting to you without all of the distractions of what you've been through (ie. go to a mosque and ask questions, talk to a Muslim that you can trust be it online or otherwise, or read books on your own). Your boyfriend can learn with you or you can take time apart until you figure things out. You've committed sins, there's no doubt about that, but Allah will forgive you as long as you repent sincerely. If your boyfriend truly cares about you he will help you mend the relationship with you and your family, and also preserve your honor, but you know that's not going to happen unless you also want it. I know being in love heals you in a way, and therefore you don't want to venture away from what's making you feel good, but you know there's a lot of things you have to fix in your life, and maybe you don't know how to do that yet. Your boyfriend seems to want to learn as well, so both of you can make an effort. Maybe your fears of doing this is that you've already sinned so what's the point if you already know its going to be haram to end up together?? Well, if he becomes a Muslim, his previous sins are erased, and if you renew your faith and repent, then inshallah Allah will also forgive you your sins..and it's very possible that under halal circumstances and with the blessings of your parents or male guardians you can get married and move on with your life. So don't be so stubborn against doing everything the right way...

At the end of the day, please don't forget that all of what your parents did is only what they thought was the best way to raise you. No one teaches us how to raise our kids, we learn from how we were raised. Parents love their children unconditionally, and i KNOW you still love them, but it's not fair to punish them like this. You come from them and they've raised you all your life, they're going to be angry with you no doubt, but you both need to find a platform for communicating and stop blaming one another for every little mistake. You need your family and they need you, even if you're on different pages.

And as I've said previously..you can feel free to ask questions about any doubts you have about Islam and about the things that don't make sense if that's the only thing stopping you from completely jumping into Islam..if it's more than that and you want someone to talk about it then you can always message me (or I can send you my email, just let me know). There's nothing wrong with wanting to inquire about our religion, we are supposed to do that, so shame on those that are making you feel otherwise.

This is the last post I think we'll be making on this, the thread has run it's course but I just wanted to make one last post.

Firslty thank you Charmisa for your message. We are going to discuss it together and see for ourselves about Islam.

Your ignorance is astounding me, seriously.

When ya boifriend dumps ya - you aint got nowhere left to go - not ya parents, nope.... and you gonna find out who ya real friends are when you hop around from place to place and have ya friedns dogs come up and sniff ya food.

I'm not even gonna ask you about your sleeping arrangements. Astagfirulah - how long will your chastity last? that's assuming you've still got it intact.

Not to mention the slur your parents are facing from the backlash of the Muslim community all because your 17 year old teen seld wanted to have a BF :D shame on you.

You aint no sister of mine.

And ya boi - Youngen, shoulda been responsible enough to know that messing with Muslim girls is not as straight forward as messing with girls from his own camp. It's a whole other world of considerations.... but noooo - young morons with balls for brains, and youg sisters with fantasies of being "Modern" lol - fail in my eyes.

My advice?

Live your life in the direction you are heading in - go full kuffar - there's no such thing as half way Muslims.

Scimi

You judge me without knowing anything about me, you don't know what my values are or what my morals are. I will never leave her with nothing or nobody, I will never kick her to the curb like her parents (mostly father) did. If things don't work out and she has nowhere to go I'll make sure she has somewhere to go rather than send her to somewhere she will be unhappy. Clearly you're painting all non muslims with the same brush and I don't know what morals you were raised with but I could NEVER live with myself if I kicked her out with nothing. I have been fortunate at my young age where I can afford to take good care of her and I'll do everything in my power to make sure that if things don't work out, she is well looked after, no matter what she does I won't do what her parents did to her, poor girl I could not imagine her having to go through abandonment twice.

Her father seems very unreasonable but in due time, whether we get involved with Islam or not, we're hoping they will calm down and come to accept her. If they don't then it's their loss and they'll miss out on the rest of her life and a possible grand daughter. You think this is some high school crush, I love her to pieces and she knows that, nothing you say will make her think twice about that.

Again to everyone who somehow miraculously had the patience to go through 5 pages of debate I thank you, even those of you who were quite harsh with us. We'll take this advice onboard and see where it leads us.

Peace and blessings to all of you, I wish you the best of luck in your own lives also.

[Kiro]

This is the last post I think we'll be making on this, the thread has run it's course but I just wanted to make one last post.

Fi

You seem like a nice guy. I hope you had a good stay.

If you ever have any questions in Islam, don't forget to ask. Islam encourages you to ask questions and question the religion because questioning gives you knowledge. :)

[s.ali123]

Yes keep throwing your insults to me. I couldn't care less.

I know you're under this delusion that I'll be dumped and throw to the side in a couple months or years and be by myself, that might be true, who knows.. but at least I found out by myself and actually LEARNT something. I believe what my boyfriend says and he backs it up with action. He's put his hand on his heart and promised that whatever happens he will never leave me with nothing or nobody. He said he'd sooner buy me my own home than see my on the streets or living miserable with my parents under their wrath. Whether you believe this is irrelevant, I believe it.

He is already going to help me financially with university, he is committed, we both are and we want our relationship to last a long time. Obviously we can never say it will last forever has most relationships don't, halal or otherwise... One thing is certain, I would rather take my chances with him, someone I actually love and care for than something my parents forced me to be with who makes my skin crawl simply touching him.

s.ali123 Thank you so much for your helpful PM. I am unable to reply to your PM as I don't have 50 posts so I will just reply with it here.

Thanks for telling this. I also had somewhat similar case, just Pakistani version :P Just in my case I Alhamdulillah looked for answers myself.
Yeah I know forcing someone for religion does not make them more practicing. Clearing there doubts does. No one can be forced to follow something. Neither companions nor the Prophet ever forced anyone for following. Alhamdulillah both me and my future wife understand this, and in shaa Allah will apply this in our family. May Allah help everyone here, and help them see evil as evil and good as good. :) Jazakallaho Khair

[~ Sabr ~]

@EgyptPrincess @ youngen

My last words to you both: Either @youngen convert to Islam or leave @EgyptPrincess - If you truly care for her then you will consider either option.

Good Luck @EgyptPrincess, you will need it.

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalaamu alaikum,

I thought the following might be useful to add to the discussion. Sheikh Abou El Fadl is a very knowledgeable person in Islamic Law, as well as having lived a long time in the US. I have read some of his works, and he does not issue opinions lightly or easily, and I believe him to be a sincere believer. I am not posting everything here, and if anyone is interested in fully understanding his position, they should read both the questions and the answers on his site in full.

May God, the Compassionate, Guide us.


Dear Sister,

Al-salamu 'alaykum. Since I do not know you personally, most of what I have to say I have said in this statement: http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/oninma.html.

But to be directly responsive to your question, do I believe that a woman who marries outside of the Muslim faith is a kafir? The answer is no, I do not. Do I believe that it is advisable to marry someone outside the faith? No, I do not. In religious terms, it is among the issues that I would consider makruh (disfavored) for both Muslim men and Muslim women. This is based on a sociological reality that children who grow up with parents not sharing the same faith grow up in a state of confusion, which they resolve often by being faithless. Or if they have any faith, it tends to simply be agnostic. In my over 30 years in the West, working in case after case, all stories begin with love, dreams, and high hopes. Ten, twenty, thirty years later, from my experience and the experience of so many that I have dealt with, the ending is not happy.

There is a quintessential and fundamental question that every man and woman should ask himself/herself. Personally, I cannot be married to someone with whom I cannot pray, fast, celebrate Eid, and perform all my other religious duties. My faith is of such importance to me that I must be able to share it with my partner. In a marriage, you share your body, money, heart, and perhaps your soul. The question you must ask yourself is: Is religion less important or more important to you than all of these things? To me, Islam and its practices are more basic and fundamental than my money, body, heart, or soul. I cherish it more than these things. If I am married to someone with whom I cannot share what I hold the dearest, I feel that I am cheating them, and that the relationship is superficial and insincere. Add to this the position in which the children will be placed as they try to navigate the issues of truth and lack thereof in our modern world.

The only advice I can give you is to ask yourself what role does your faith play in your life? Will you be happy if you are unable to submit to God with your partner according to the teachings of Islam? And how important is it to you that your children are raised firm in their conviction about prayer, fasting, the shahada, and all the other essentials of the faith? Only you can provide the necessary honesty in responding to these questions. When all is said and done, whatever your decision is, I sincerely pray with all my heart that Allah blesses you, aids you, guides you, and that you have success and happiness in your life. And when all is said and done, it is only Allah that can judge you, your intentions and your actions. As is my firm conviction, only Allah knows best.

Al-salamu 'alaykum wa rahmatu Allah,

Shaykh Khaled Abou El Fadl

Source: http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/oninma.html

[EgyptPrincess]

Assalaamu alaikum,

I thought the following might be useful to add to the discussion. Sheikh Abou El Fadl is a very knowledgeable person in Islamic Law, as well as having lived a long time in the US. I have read some of his works, and he does not issue opinions lightly or easily, and I believe him to be a sincere believer. I am not posting everything here, and if anyone is interested in fully understanding his position, they should read both the questions and the answers on his site in full.

May God, the Compassionate, Guide us.


Dear Sister,

Al-salamu 'alaykum. Since I do not know you personally, most of what I have to say I have said in this statement:

But to be directly responsive to your question, do I believe that a woman who marries outside of the Muslim faith is a kafir? The answer is no, I do not. Do I believe that it is advisable to marry someone outside the faith? No, I do not. In religious terms, it is among the issues that I would consider makruh (disfavored) for both Muslim men and Muslim women. This is based on a sociological reality that children who grow up with parents not sharing the same faith grow up in a state of confusion, which they resolve often by being faithless. Or if they have any faith, it tends to simply be agnostic. In my over 30 years in the West, working in case after case, all stories begin with love, dreams, and high hopes. Ten, twenty, thirty years later, from my experience and the experience of so many that I have dealt with, the ending is not happy.

There is a quintessential and fundamental question that every man and woman should ask himself/herself. Personally, I cannot be married to someone with whom I cannot pray, fast, celebrate Eid, and perform all my other religious duties. My faith is of such importance to me that I must be able to share it with my partner. In a marriage, you share your body, money, heart, and perhaps your soul. The question you must ask yourself is: Is religion less important or more important to you than all of these things? To me, Islam and its practices are more basic and fundamental than my money, body, heart, or soul. I cherish it more than these things. If I am married to someone with whom I cannot share what I hold the dearest, I feel that I am cheating them, and that the relationship is superficial and insincere. Add to this the position in which the children will be placed as they try to navigate the issues of truth and lack thereof in our modern world.

The only advice I can give you is to ask yourself what role does your faith play in your life? Will you be happy if you are unable to submit to God with your partner according to the teachings of Islam? And how important is it to you that your children are raised firm in their conviction about prayer, fasting, the shahada, and all the other essentials of the faith? Only you can provide the necessary honesty in responding to these questions. When all is said and done, whatever your decision is, I sincerely pray with all my heart that Allah blesses you, aids you, guides you, and that you have success and happiness in your life. And when all is said and done, it is only Allah that can judge you, your intentions and your actions. As is my firm conviction, only Allah knows best.

Al-salamu 'alaykum wa rahmatu Allah,

Shaykh Khaled Abou El Fadl
l

I don't know why but I felt like replying here with what's new as some of you seem to genuinely care for my well-being rather than just bash on me for sinning so here it is.

I phoned my father and we spoke for about 30 minutes and I just got it all off my chest about how I feel, my lack of belief in Islam and how I just want to be a bit more free in life. We came to an agreement that I would return home to live with my parents again and in exchange I'll honestly learn about Islam (I promised my father) AND I am allowed to keep my boyfriend, he won't get on my case about him. He says it makes him feel sick and empty inside, like he failed as a parent but my mother is a little more open and said she just wants me to come back home and they're sorry for kicking me out. They only meant it as a threat and didn't actually think I would stay away.

It's all a bit awkward at the moment, I've been back just a few hours and so everything is a little bit on edge but I am leaving for university in 4 months and I will live on campus anyway. My boyfriend agreed that if I end up regaining my faith in Islam and want him to do the same, he will also learn it.

I know some of you will still say "end your relationship blah blah" but this is what I think is best for right now. My parents have said he is not allowed to come to the house which is fair enough I don't exactly want to rub it in my parents face... but I am still allowed to spend time with him which is great. My boyfriend actually drove me back home and met my mother and she was a bit more relaxed than my father and just happy I was home again.

So it's not perfect by any means but none of us are. Thanks again for all the PM's and other advice, we never set out to upset anybody especially my parents so at least this way I am back home living with my parents until university but I still get to have my boyfriend :statisfie

I guess my parents will think twice next time before trying to threaten me with such treatment haha.

[crimsontide06]

Some great Islamic speakers if you want to hear them are; Yasmin Mogahed, Nouman Ali Khan, Omar Suleiman https://www.facebook.com/imamomarsuleiman/?fref=ts

googling his name brings up some other guy I have never heard of) , and Abdul Nasir Jangda.

I don't know why but I felt like replying here with what's new as some of you seem to genuinely care for my well-being rather than just bash on me for sinning so here it is.

I phoned my father and we spoke for about 30 minutes and I just got it all off my chest about how I feel, my lack of belief in Islam and how I just want to be a bit more free in life. We came to an agreement that I would return home to live with my parents again and in exchange I'll honestly learn about Islam (I promised my father) AND I am allowed to keep my boyfriend, he won't get on my case about him. He says it makes him feel sick and empty inside, like he failed as a parent but my mother is a little more open and said she just wants me to come back home and they're sorry for kicking me out. They only meant it as a threat and didn't actually think I would stay away.

It's all a bit awkward at the moment, I've been back just a few hours and so everything is a little bit on edge but I am leaving for university in 4 months and I will live on campus anyway. My boyfriend agreed that if I end up regaining my faith in Islam and want him to do the same, he will also learn it.

I know some of you will still say "end your relationship blah blah" but this is what I think is best for right now. My parents have said he is not allowed to come to the house which is fair enough I don't exactly want to rub it in my parents face... but I am still allowed to spend time with him which is great. My boyfriend actually drove me back home and met my mother and she was a bit more relaxed than my father and just happy I was home again.

So it's not perfect by any means but none of us are. Thanks again for all the PM's and other advice, we never set out to upset anybody especially my parents so at least this way I am back home living with my parents until university but I still get to have my boyfriend :statisfie

I guess my parents will think twice next time before trying to threaten me with such treatment haha.

[*charisma*]

I don't know why but I felt like replying here with what's new as some of you seem to genuinely care for my well-being rather than just bash on me for sinning so here it is.

I phoned my father and we spoke for about 30 minutes and I just got it all off my chest about how I feel, my lack of belief in Islam and how I just want to be a bit more free in life. We came to an agreement that I would return home to live with my parents again and in exchange I'll honestly learn about Islam (I promised my father) AND I am allowed to keep my boyfriend, he won't get on my case about him. He says it makes him feel sick and empty inside, like he failed as a parent but my mother is a little more open and said she just wants me to come back home and they're sorry for kicking me out. They only meant it as a threat and didn't actually think I would stay away.

It's all a bit awkward at the moment, I've been back just a few hours and so everything is a little bit on edge but I am leaving for university in 4 months and I will live on campus anyway. My boyfriend agreed that if I end up regaining my faith in Islam and want him to do the same, he will also learn it.

I know some of you will still say "end your relationship blah blah" but this is what I think is best for right now. My parents have said he is not allowed to come to the house which is fair enough I don't exactly want to rub it in my parents face... but I am still allowed to spend time with him which is great. My boyfriend actually drove me back home and met my mother and she was a bit more relaxed than my father and just happy I was home again.

So it's not perfect by any means but none of us are. Thanks again for all the PM's and other advice, we never set out to upset anybody especially my parents so at least this way I am back home living with my parents until university but I still get to have my boyfriend :statisfie

I guess my parents will think twice next time before trying to threaten me with such treatment haha.

I am really happy to hear that you have taken the step to speak with them. I know that there will still be some tension, but you did the right thing. Things aren't perfect, but inshallah with time things will get much better. Your parents' pain is very understandable. I only wish the best for you, I'd never wish anything less. So May Allah guide you and your family and mend your relationship to better than it was before. Please do keep us updated inshallah and we will be here to help or even provide resources for you whenever you ask :)

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

I wish to you a good life, sister EgyptPrincess. Do what your heart says is right. :statisfie It sounds great you was able to return to home. Hopely everything goes well after this.

[piXie]

:sl:

Im glad you are home and I don't want to bash you but I just want you to realise and understand that your father has been forced to agree to something (your boyfriend), to compromise his religion, his honour and everything - just so you would come back home. He is a broken and desperate man, therefore please don't end your post with those words and haha as though this is a victory because this is not a victory.

Whatever your parents said before, it was because they love you dearly and feared for you in front of Allah, they feared for your chastity, dignity and honor and hoped that you would come round and think about these fundamental elements to your faith and most importantly, value your religion & yourself. But you are in love and cannot see beyond that right now.

Your family has been made to compromise their deen by allowing you to spend time with your boyfriend, they have been put in a difficult position with Allah, but the wrong (having a boyfriend) is not ready to let go. I understand you are very much in love and you both want to look into Islam which is great, but please, after everything that has happened, at least show some regard & some consideration. If not to your religion because you don't feel connected to it, then at least to your father if you love him. Many people take a break from their boyfriend/girlfriends due to work commitments, jobs, will you not even agree to part for a short time for the sake of your Lord? Take a break from your relationship, be patient. Let him look into Islam while you strengthen your relationship with your Lord. Give yourselves some time to sincerely do that, and just like you had to make some major decisions, let him make some major decisions. It is his turn, and Your boyfriend sounds like the type of person who will find Islam to be a dignified & beautiful way of life. And your father sounds like the type of dad who would accept him as a Muslim and marry you both if that is what you want. But be patient, do things the right way round this time, don't do it in a way where u have to compromise your religion or displease your Lord or parents because all these positions eventually bring loss to a person, in this life and the next. Please at least acknowledge the seriousness of the situation, make the intention and try, so that Allah will make it easy for you, and bless you.

May Allah have mercy upon your parents. May guide you all (including Youngen) to what is pleasing to Him. Aameen.

[EgyptPrincess]

:sl:

Im glad you are home and I don't want to bash you but I just want you to realise and understand that your father has been forced to agree to something (your boyfriend), to compromise his religion, his honour and everything - just so you would come back home. He is a broken and desperate man, therefore please don't end your post with those words and haha as though this is a victory because this is not a victory.

Whatever your parents said before, it was because they love you dearly and feared for you in front of Allah, they feared for your chastity, dignity and honor and hoped that you would come round and think about these fundamental elements to your faith and most importantly, value your religion & yourself. But you are in love and cannot see beyond that right now.

Your family has been made to compromise their deen by allowing you to spend time with your boyfriend, they have been put in a difficult position with Allah, but the wrong (having a boyfriend) is not ready to let go. I understand you are very much in love and you both want to look into Islam which is great, but please, after everything that has happened, at least show some regard & some consideration. If not to your religion because you don't feel connected to it, then at least to your father if you love him. Many people take a break from their boyfriend/girlfriends due to work commitments, jobs, will you not even agree to part for a short time for the sake of your Lord? Take a break from your relationship, be patient. Let him look into Islam while you strengthen your relationship with your Lord. Give yourselves some time to sincerely do that, and just like you had to make some major decisions, let him make some major decisions. It is his turn, and Your boyfriend sounds like the type of person who will find Islam to be a dignified & beautiful way of life. And your father sounds like the type of dad who would accept him as a Muslim and marry you both if that is what you want. But be patient, do things the right way round this time, don't do it in a way where u have to compromise your religion or displease your Lord or parents because all these positions eventually bring loss to a person, in this life and the next. Please at least acknowledge the seriousness of the situation, make the intention and try, so that Allah will make it easy for you, and bless you.

May Allah have mercy upon your parents. May guide you all (including Youngen) to what is pleasing to Him. Aameen.

Wa-Alaikum Salaam

I agree I probably should not write "haha" I am not proud of making my parents upset or anxious over me. My boyfriend is already compromising and talked me into returning home mostly. They're not compromising their deen really, they still follow it just as they did before, my actions are separate from their actions. I doubt my boyfriend would be very happy at all to break off all contact while I am learning about Islam, how long might it take... months, years? What if I am still the same and just don't believe after this time? He has probably moved on.

Now I will only stay with him on the weekends most likely.. where is my compromise? I did give into my parents and come back home after all. What about when I go to uni? Again no contact with him at all? Then my father tries to tell me no socialising with boys etc, controlling all over again? I have to put my foot down otherwise it will go back to how it was before. I am still the same daughter my parents raised me as, I still love them with all my heart but I don't think in exchange for their love I should follow their rules to every letter, even when I am an adult.

We both made a compromise and settled on an in between situation. Why must it be 100% parents and 0% for me? It should be 50/50, I am an adult!

I honestly don't think my boyfriend would accept no contact. He likes to spend time with me too much. If of course I start to bond with Islam again then surely I will no have a relationship with him unless he converts but I can't expect or even ask that he wait months or years. He will certainly move on and I might not even end up bonding with Islam, so I wasted my chances with him imsad

[Bhabha]

@EgyptPrincess

The no socializing with boys means no socializing like you would hang out with girls who are your friends. I still have "friends" at university who are boys, they are respectful and I am respectful towards them. They know I am Muslim and so they understand that and actually treat me like a sister. I am the only Muslim in my program, although there is another girl who is also Muslim she doesn't practice. So when they all go out for "drinks" or for parties and stuff they know that I will never go out with them and so they don't bother to invite me. When I mean them, I mean the whole program (which is like around 25 students) both phd and master students.

However, I still technically hang out but there is a barrier of respect. I still sit next to my friends who are guys, but our interaction and perhaps because we are mature students is intellectual. Our discussions are about politics, our readings for class, we debate about things but we maintain a distance of how our interaction happens. I don't hug them, I don't shake hands, we are all respectful. I still do technically socialize with guys, because it is impossible not to in my program. I actually prefer to talk with guys in my program because they don't gossip and we stick to criticizing political writers and their shortcomings.

I like to believe we are not all carnal animals. The veil should be both physical, such as in ensuring that there is a certain kind of veil that hides things from the other, hijab etc. And in the kind of topics we discuss with members of the opposite sex. In reality, we will always have to socialize with people of the opposite sex, but train yourself to be respect, to demand that kind of respect that says "this is a serious woman, who deserves the respect that my mother and sister have from me" and not "this is a playful woman, who doesn't know what respect is"

See the difference :)

[EgyptPrincess]

The no socializing with boys means no socializing like you would hang out with girls who are your friends. I still have "friends" at university who are boys, they are respectful and I am respectful towards them. They know I am Muslim and so they understand that and actually treat me like a sister. I am the only Muslim in my program, although there is another girl who is also Muslim she doesn't practice. So when they all go out for "drinks" or for parties and stuff they know that I will never go out with them and so they don't bother to invite me. When I mean them, I mean the whole program (which is like around 25 students) both phd and master students.

However, I still technically hang out but there is a barrier of respect. I still sit next to my friends who are guys, but our interaction and perhaps because we are mature students is intellectual. Our discussions are about politics, our readings for class, we debate about things but we maintain a distance of how our interaction happens. I don't hug them, I don't shake hands, we are all respectful. I still do technically socialize with guys, because it is impossible not to in my program. I actually prefer to talk with guys in my program because they don't gossip and we stick to criticizing political writers and their shortcomings.

I like to believe we are not all carnal animals. The veil should be both physical, such as in ensuring that there is a certain kind of veil that hides things from the other, hijab etc. And in the kind of topics we discuss with members of the opposite sex. In reality, we will always have to socialize with people of the opposite sex, but train yourself to be respect, to demand that kind of respect that says "this is a serious woman, who deserves the respect that my mother and sister have from me" and not "this is a playful woman, who doesn't know what respect is"

See the difference :)

Yes I do see the difference and I do have respect. This is my first boyfriend I had and it's not like I am desperately trying to be in a relationship... We met and just got on really well and fell in love.

So what must I do? Break up from him and only have an islamic husband? Without being disrespectful most muslim men are quite unattractive, I dislike beards for a start and it's a bit awkward when you're more intelligent than he is lol ;D

I just don't know if I was cut out to be a muslimah :( maybe it's just not who I am meant to be. I am struggling to feel god in my heart and fear Allah. I don't really know what else to say, the answer for you is very simple but for me it's not. I don't want to turn away from Islam but I also don't want to give up things I enjoy doing. Maybe once I am a bit older I might come back to Islam fully, then I can ask for Allah's forgiveness and everything will be forgiven :)

Ramadan in about a month, I will seek Allah's advice during this time. What is my boyfriend doesn't want to wait until I figure out if I actually want to be a proper muslim or not, then I might lose him.

[sister herb]

Even as you are a born Muslim, I would like to give you the same advice like to new reverts: don´t try too much in one time, at the beginning take just a little steps and don´t try too much at once.

Sorry my bad English, I might not find the right words but hopely you understand.

[EgyptPrincess]

Even as you are a born Muslim, I would like to give you the same advice like to new reverts: don´t try too much in one time, at the beginning take just a little steps and don´t try too much at once.

Sorry my bad English, I might not find the right words but hopely you understand.

I understand you sister :)

That is what I am trying to do. I agreed to my parents I would give Islam a serious try because all these years I "followed" it but never really understood much about it.

[Bhabha]

Yes I do see the difference and I do have respect. This is my first boyfriend I had and it's not like I am desperately trying to be in a relationship... We met and just got on really well and fell in love.

So what must I do? Break up from him and only have an islamic husband? Without being disrespectful most muslim men are quite unattractive, I dislike beards for a start and it's a bit awkward when you're more intelligent than he is lol ;D

I just don't know if I was cut out to be a muslimah :( maybe it's just not who I am meant to be. I am struggling to feel god in my heart and fear Allah. I don't really know what else to say, the answer for you is very simple but for me it's not. I don't want to turn away from Islam but I also don't want to give up things I enjoy doing. Maybe once I am a bit older I might come back to Islam fully, then I can ask for Allah's forgiveness and everything will be forgiven :)

Ramadan in about a month, I will seek Allah's advice during this time. What is my boyfriend doesn't want to wait until I figure out if I actually want to be a proper muslim or not, then I might lose him.

If your 'boyfriend' doesn't want to wait until you figure out if you want to be a proper Muslim or not... Is it worth it?

I actually find Muslim men more attractive and not all Muslim men have a beard. Thought I have had the same struggle, for example my mother says to me how can I marry someone who is Muslim and has a phd? Lol because I haven't seen a lot of Muslim men in my program, doesn't mean they don't exist outside of my own little bubble.

Lol. I have known lots who are doctors, engineers and I met a nice brother who was working as a surgeon in the university that I go to, it has one of the best hospitals and research centres for neurological research, he was inspired to be a surgeon because his little brother suffers from neurological problems. He was from Saudi, so he went back after his time here was done.

There are a lot of wonderful Muslim men who are smart, educated and who have been raised in an environment of love where they have deep care for their sisters and mother and would treat their wives like precious princesses because they know their duty and responsibility as Muslim men.

A man raised with the knowledge of Islam and who loves Allah will respect you, care for you and be there for you. Even if he is angered at something, his treatment for you will continue to be just because he loves Allah and fears Allah's punishment for neglecting, disrespecting and harming his wife. A man who does not know Allah his love might be temporary, and his love might not be consistent because there is nothing that continues to assert that need to maintain respect, care and love for his wife. That is the difference between a man who understands Islam and one who does not.

At 17, you are so young. If I had ever moved out and stayed with a boy at that age, and FYI my parents are not Muslim, I would have been disowned for real. I would have most likely been dragged on my hair, my boyfriend would have been hunted down by the police with dogs and my mother would have shipped me off to boarding school or gotten a restraining order. Because you are a baby in their eyes and even if you are 20, or 30 and so on. You will continue to be their child, their precious baby, whom your mom held in her stomach for 9 months, who fed you and cared for you when you were sick and who would choose to feed you and not themselves if they had no more food. Your parents saw you grow from a helpless child to a lovely woman, and will continue to want to protect their daughter even if sometimes they loose their way and it comes out wrong. Its their love and parents love is one of a kind. Just imagine what orphans go through :( they don't have parents that care for them, and wish they could :(

So your parents love for you is unconditional! Don't hurt them, cause them grief or pain. One day when you are older, have children of your own, you will realize that what they feel for you is out of concern and love of loosing you and of you loosing out.

[EgyptPrincess]

If your 'boyfriend' doesn't want to wait until you figure out if you want to be a proper Muslim or not... Is it worth it?

I actually find Muslim men more attractive and not all Muslim men have a beard. Thought I have had the same struggle, for example my mother says to me how can I marry someone who is Muslim and has a phd? Lol because I haven't seen a lot of Muslim men in my program, doesn't mean they don't exist outside of my own little bubble.

Lol. I have known lots who are doctors, engineers and I met a nice brother who was working as a surgeon in the university that I go to, it has one of the best hospitals and research centres for neurological research, he was inspired to be a surgeon because his little brother suffers from neurological problems. He was from Saudi, so he went back after his time here was done.

There are a lot of wonderful Muslim men who are smart, educated and who have been raised in an environment of love where they have deep care for their sisters and mother and would treat their wives like precious princesses because they know their duty and responsibility as Muslim men.

A man raised with the knowledge of Islam and who loves Allah will respect you, care for you and be there for you. Even if he is angered at something, his treatment for you will continue to be just because he loves Allah and fears Allah's punishment for neglecting, disrespecting and harming his wife. A man who does not know Allah his love might be temporary, and his love might not be consistent because there is nothing that continues to assert that need to maintain respect, care and love for his wife. That is the difference between a man who understands Islam and one who does not.

At 17, you are so young. If I had ever moved out and stayed with a boy at that age, and FYI my parents are not Muslim, I would have been disowned for real. I would have most likely been dragged on my hair, my boyfriend would have been hunted down by the police with dogs and my mother would have shipped me off to boarding school or gotten a restraining order. Because you are a baby in their eyes and even if you are 20, or 30 and so on. You will continue to be their child, their precious baby, whom your mom held in her stomach for 9 months, who fed you and cared for you when you were sick and who would choose to feed you and not themselves if they had no more food. Your parents saw you grow from a helpless child to a lovely woman, and will continue to want to protect their daughter even if sometimes they loose their way and it comes out wrong. Its their love and parents love is one of a kind. Just imagine what orphans go through :( they don't have parents that care for them, and wish they could :(

So your parents love for you is unconditional! Don't hurt them, cause them grief or pain. One day when you are older, have children of your own, you will realize that what they feel for you is out of concern and love of loosing you and of you loosing out.

You explain is very well and I do understand. How do you know a non muslim man cannot also treat his wife the same way? It's not always fear from Allah that people do good things. So what you're essentially saying is that a muslim husband only treats you well because he fears Allah and so if he did not believe in god, he would not treat you well. Doesn't seem like a nice person to me.

My boyfriend has spoilt me and treated me well for a year without any god in his heart, there is no reason this cannot continue to be the case. I know my parents care deeply for me but there are some things need to be overwritten. If you parents are scared for you to go on holiday, do you just not go? What if they don't want you to go to uni, you just don't go? If you live your live purely to please your parents then that is a recipe for disaster.

I got good grades at school, I don't do drugs or smoke or anything, I don't eat pork, I love and care for my sister, I do have self respect and don't dress like a ****, I love and care for my parents. I try my best to be a decent person. Who I fall in love with is something they just don't have a say in unfortunately. It would be a bit different if I was with a drugged addicted low life with no job... he is successful, caring etc I mentioned it enough times, plus he has money :p lol I joke it's nothing about the money.

I have lived my life to please my parents but some things just have to be accepted by them, it's not up for discussion. As I said if I connect with Islam again it might change my attitude but until such a time, I will stay by his side, go to uni, get a career, go on holiday and live a fun life. I've been on holiday 3 times and each time was to my relatives home in Egypt... I want to go to the Maldives!! or French Polynesia!! Which I can do with him... I can't do that with my parents they won't go to that type of holiday.

I'm sorry if I am a failure or a bad Muslim to the people in the forum imsad

[Bhabha]

You explain is very well and I do understand. How do you know a non muslim man cannot also treat his wife the same way? It's not always fear from Allah that people do good things. So what you're essentially saying is that a muslim husband only treats you well because he fears Allah and so if he did not believe in god, he would not treat you well. Doesn't seem like a nice person to me.

My boyfriend has spoilt me and treated me well for a year without any god in his heart, there is no reason this cannot continue to be the case. I know my parents care deeply for me but there are some things need to be overwritten. If you parents are scared for you to go on holiday, do you just not go? What if they don't want you to go to uni, you just don't go? If you live your live purely to please your parents then that is a recipe for disaster.

I got good grades at school, I don't do drugs or smoke or anything, I don't eat pork, I love and care for my sister, I do have self respect and don't dress like a ****, I love and care for my parents. I try my best to be a decent person. Who I fall in love with is something they just don't have a say in unfortunately. It would be a bit different if I was with a drugged addicted low life with no job... he is successful, caring etc I mentioned it enough times, plus he has money :p lol I joke it's nothing about the money.

I have lived my life to please my parents but some things just have to be accepted by them, it's not up for discussion. As I said if I connect with Islam again it might change my attitude but until such a time, I will stay by his side, go to uni, get a career, go on holiday and live a fun life. I've been on holiday 3 times and each time was to my relatives home in Egypt... I want to go to the Maldives!! or French Polynesia!! Which I can do with him... I can't do that with my parents they won't go to that type of holiday.

I'm sorry if I am a failure or a bad Muslim to the people in the forum imsad

I am not saying that a non-Muslim will be a horrible husband lol. My mother is married to a non-Muslim and he has not been a horrible husband. He is caring, considerate and spoils her like crazy. I didn't mention non-Muslim or Muslim. I said love for Allah, which can be absent or present in a Muslim, a practicing Muslim versus a verbal one. Quite the difference and practicing is both what is in his heart and what you see, felt by the way he treats others around him.

A non-Muslim can also be a good husband. When I mean love for the sake of Allah it is like an unconditional love. For example the love a parent has for a child despite the child misbehaving, being rude, etc. The parent will not cut off ties with the child, because there is a deeper connection that maintains their relationship one that cannot be severed. Like the husband who has a deep connection with Allah will not sever his relationship with his wife and will strive in all of the ways to ensure that his wife is treated like a princess.

Looks, money and the sexual lust between husband and wife can fade. If you marry a good looking man who has no love for Allah, no respect and who has no fear of Allah in committing harm can easily stray away over time. His looks will fade eventually. Just as your youth and your looks will fade. A man with money, perhaps one day he will not have any money. The same thing. You can marry someone rich and all of a sudden money fails. However, a man who is kind and whose love extends beyond the looks, the youth, the lust will love you for the commitment that he has made to Allah to care for you no matter what.

My step-father, despite not being Muslim is fearful of God if he commits harm to my mother. Even if he gets angry, he does not raise a hand because he knows the punishment that will come to him, not from the law because the law does not protect women from domestic abuse. But because he knows that if he dies, he will pay for his crime against my mother in the afterlife. Even if he is so angry.

I am also not saying to go and marry someone who is poor. Because there is that belief that having money is something wicked amongst the community. There are good men who are fearful of Allah, who love اللهُ and who will respect you and are also well endowed economically and in looks. However to marry someone just with money and without that ingredient in his heart is also a recipe for disaster. If he is in a good mood when he has money, what will happen to his good mood and his temperament if he looses his money? Will he continue to treat you like a princess?

Even if parents have nothing to eat themselves, the first one they feed and care for is their child. Even if parents are struggling economically, their children are cared for, without knowledge of what is happening because there is that deep love that is not conditional but everlasting.

[Kiro]

I'm sorry if I am a failure or a bad Muslim to the people in the forum imsad

don't worry, we're all learning, little by little

[s.ali123]

You explain is very well and I do understand. How do you know a non muslim man cannot also treat his wife the same way? It's not always fear from Allah that people do good things. So what you're essentially saying is that a muslim husband only treats you well because he fears Allah and so if he did not believe in god, he would not treat you well. Doesn't seem like a nice person to me.

My boyfriend has spoilt me and treated me well for a year without any god in his heart, there is no reason this cannot continue to be the case. I know my parents care deeply for me but there are some things need to be overwritten. If you parents are scared for you to go on holiday, do you just not go? What if they don't want you to go to uni, you just don't go? If you live your live purely to please your parents then that is a recipe for disaster.

I got good grades at school, I don't do drugs or smoke or anything, I don't eat pork, I love and care for my sister, I do have self respect and don't dress like a ****, I love and care for my parents. I try my best to be a decent person. Who I fall in love with is something they just don't have a say in unfortunately. It would be a bit different if I was with a drugged addicted low life with no job... he is successful, caring etc I mentioned it enough times, plus he has money :p lol I joke it's nothing about the money.

I have lived my life to please my parents but some things just have to be accepted by them, it's not up for discussion. As I said if I connect with Islam again it might change my attitude but until such a time, I will stay by his side, go to uni, get a career, go on holiday and live a fun life. I've been on holiday 3 times and each time was to my relatives home in Egypt... I want to go to the Maldives!! or French Polynesia!! Which I can do with him... I can't do that with my parents they won't go to that type of holiday.

I'm sorry if I am a failure or a bad Muslim to the people in the forum imsad

Salam Alaikum! Glad to hear from you :) I am glad you you took right step.
What you said about non muslim treating wife well. I agree with you. I have seen many athiest treating wives and gf very well. I don't have doubt they cannot. And I don't think anyone ever said that non muslim cannot treat wife well. The other sister was just replying that many muslim also treat wife well. I have seen that as well :)

Now I would suggest you something after which even my own thoughts about marriage changed. And I started to always think about getting married :P because it is was so much beautiful. Read the treatment of the Prophet with his wives. Previously I did not have realised the beauty of having a spouse. I came to realise the love, resoect and honor one should have towads the wife through his character, and also through the behaviour of the companions with their wives. You may think them of being unromantic and unloving etc, but to be honest I learned the best love stories from their lives. I would highly recommend you to look into that. The companionship Khadija had with the Prophet S.A.W., the love Prophet S.A.W had for Ayesha, really I got interested into marriage after reading them :P As the respect, love and dignity they have for eachother, I never find it anywhere.
So are there muslims who practice it? I would say Yes! May be you havent met them :)

One important thing that I always stress about in my friends is that Islam in not just "intellectual" gymnastics. It is true that one will find the reasons and enough proofs for everything it says, but real Islam is in the character of a person. Proofs and reasons may satisfy your brain, but it will never satisfy your heart unless you remove all the bad character traits from it.

Recently I read a book about the Prophet, "In the footsteps of the Prophet" by dr. Tariq Ramadan. You may also find pdf copy online. I would highly recommend it since it is in plain english, and is written keeping in mind the current situation of the muslims. Start from there if you want.
And it is also true that you may change your mind over time as well. I am also not the same kind of person as I was when 17. I used to feel that oh I am mature and adult etc, but the reality is I learned many things from experience and reading and learning. Even many of my approaches about Islam got matured over time. You will realise it as you start reading and getting more experience from surrounding.
Others have already told you about resoecting the parents. I also agree with them in this regard. There is one beautiful hadith, " God does not show mercy to the one who does not have mercy to the people".

[s.ali123]

I am not saying that a non-Muslim will be a horrible husband lol. My mother is married to a non-Muslim and he has not been a horrible husband. He is caring, considerate and spoils her like crazy. I didn't mention non-Muslim or Muslim. I said love for Allah, which can be absent or present in a Muslim, a practicing Muslim versus a verbal one. Quite the difference and practicing is both what is in his heart and what you see, felt by the way he treats others around him.

A non-Muslim can also be a good husband. When I mean love for the sake of Allah it is like an unconditional love. For example the love a parent has for a child despite the child misbehaving, being rude, etc. The parent will not cut off ties with the child, because there is a deeper connection that maintains their relationship one that cannot be severed. Like the husband who has a deep connection with Allah will not sever his relationship with his wife and will strive in all of the ways to ensure that his wife is treated like a princess.

Looks, money and the sexual lust between husband and wife can fade. If you marry a good looking man who has no love for Allah, no respect and who has no fear of Allah in committing harm can easily stray away over time. His looks will fade eventually. Just as your youth and your looks will fade. A man with money, perhaps one day he will not have any money. The same thing. You can marry someone rich and all of a sudden money fails. However, a man who is kind and whose love extends beyond the looks, the youth, the lust will love you for the commitment that he has made to Allah to care for you no matter what.

My step-father, despite not being Muslim is fearful of God if he commits harm to my mother. Even if he gets angry, he does not raise a hand because he knows the punishment that will come to him, not from the law because the law does not protect women from domestic abuse. But because he knows that if he dies, he will pay for his crime against my mother in the afterlife. Even if he is so angry.

I am also not saying to go and marry someone who is poor. Because there is that belief that having money is something wicked amongst the community. There are good men who are fearful of Allah, who love اللهُ and who will respect you and are also well endowed economically and in looks. However to marry someone just with money and without that ingredient in his heart is also a recipe for disaster. If he is in a good mood when he has money, what will happen to his good mood and his temperament if he looses his money? Will he continue to treat you like a princess?

Even if parents have nothing to eat themselves, the first one they feed and care for is their child. Even if parents are struggling economically, their children are cared for, without knowledge of what is happening because there is that deep love that is not conditional but everlasting.

Ma shaa Allah sister you said what I wanted to say :) I really get amazed that how much the reverted people learn and so quickly, and especially they focus on polishing the character. This is something which everyone should do as well :) Subhanallah. I love reverted muslims :)

[EgyptPrincess]

Thanks again for your replies, I am reading them all but I don't have much left to say. If I have any more questions about Islam I'll probably ask here or on google rather than my parents. I'm watching some of "The Merciful Servant" videos too and I like Sheikh Hamza Yusef's videos :)

[piXie]

You explain is very well and I do understand. How do you know a non muslim man cannot also treat his wife the same way?

Of course he can. He can offer her many things but what can he offer her in the next life? He can take her to beautiful places in this life, but where does he take her in the afterlife?

He is an atheist. He doesn't believe it this, he doesn't know. But you do.

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You see this long line. Imagine this line represents infinity. And you see that little red dot at the beginning. That is our life on this world. The rest represents the next life. Many people sacrifice the rest of eternity for that small red dot. A momentary pleasure. It is true that you are an adult and as adult we make decisions, but keep this reality in mind when you do and know that death does not wait for man to be ready. It comes suddenly.

[Bhabha]

Thanks again for your replies, I am reading them all but I don't have much left to say. If I have any more questions about Islam I'll probably ask here or on google rather than my parents. I'm watching some of "The Merciful Servant" videos too and I like Sheikh Hamza Yusef's videos :)

Feel free to message me if you would like too [emoji5]

[~ Sabr ~]

I agreed to my parents I would give Islam a serious try because all these years I "followed" it but never really understood much about it.

You are a grown up - if you had time to go out and find a boyfriend then you had time to learn about why you are doing certain things in "the name of religion"! You were/are not a child... old enough to research.

[EgyptPrincess]

You are a grown up - if you had time to go out and find a boyfriend then you had time to learn about why you are doing certain things in "the name of religion"! You were/are not a child... old enough to research.

Stop criticising me. I didn't hunt him down, we just met. Back off and give me a break will you. I'm 18 in a few months so yes, I am practically an adult now and I'll do a I choose, not what others want me to do.

Thank you very much.

[piXie]

They're not compromising their deen really, they still follow it just as they did before, my actions are separate from their actions.

Your actions are indeed separate from theirs but you need to understand that your fathers religion, honor, respect, culture, values, beliefs, principles, background and right down to his bones and nerves don't allow him to accept his daughter being involved in a relationship with a man who is not her husband. It kills him, Yet, he has put all these matters aside for your happiness & on the pact that you will study Islam and perhaps realise on your own the values which he feels he has completely failed to install in you. Religion, respect, family values, are important to every person but he has seen that his daughter has not understood, valued or shown any regard to these matters or even to him as her father, and because of this he feels he has failed as a parent. It was the boyfriend who seemed more concerned about the situation than his own daughter was. What can he say after that other than do as you please, these are not the words of permission but the words which come from a broken heart. He has seen his position with his daughter and the regard she gave him, he is a broken father and man who cannot even lift his head in society anymore. He doesn't have 100% - it's 0%. You have got your boyfriend - you have got your way. What can he say to you except hope that you will look into Islam and at least realise what you are doing is wrong and try to put things right. Because if you knew what you were doing was wrong or at least had some regard, you wouldnt speak of spending the weekends with your boyfriend or going on holidays with him at least, even if you cannot leave complete contact. And we certainly wouldn't be reading comments like "I need to put my foot down" especially when, wheather you mean to or not, the foot is going right into your fathers face. It is very sad and the attitude it shows, especially when your father is only trying to advise you about getting the best in this life and the next.

Sincerely speaking, my intentions are not to bash you, but to help you realise and understand, because from your comments it seems like you haven't even began to realise the implications of your decision to remain in a relationship with your boyfriend or long term effects and consequences this will have upon you, your family and your hereafter. It doesn't effect your boyfriend as much as it effects you though the last part (hereafter) effects us all equally.

I honestly don't think my boyfriend would accept no contact. He likes to spend time with me too much. If of course I start to bond with Islam again then surely I will no have a relationship with him unless he converts but I can't expect or even ask that he wait months or years. He will certainly move on and I might not even end up bonding with Islam, so I wasted my chances with him imsad

Are you afraid to test his love for you? How much time do you both need? Islam is clear , it's not a mystery which requires months of investigation. At least then you won't take so long looking into Islam at your own leisurely pace while you sin along the way. What if death met the one of you in that state? That is not showing a regard or sincerely trying and wanting to do the right thing. Why doesn't it matter to you whether your boyfriend accepts Islam? You are a Muslim, you at least believe in Allah do you not? You have something that he does not know about, and if you have any faith at all that Islam is true, then it should matter to you a lot that he seriously look into Islam, for his sake, your sake, your parents sake and if he believes in God then for Gods sake. Why should you be the one to sacrifice all these important matters and put your hereafter at risk, especially when your boyfriend is willing to seriously look into Islam and perhaps even marry you. It is his turn, he needs to make some changes, I know you love him but be patient, stand your ground upon Islam if you believe it is correct, do it for the sake of Allah this time, let your father feel some pride that atleast my daughter tried, after everything that your father has sacrificed for you, you owe him that much atleast. Let your boyfriend earn you, and remember you are only pulling him in a direction which is good for his life and next life , plus you can enjoy each other's company in a lawful way if he accepts. If he loves you and is a reasonable man which it seems he is, if he wants you back in way which would be acceptable to your faith and parents, he would make it a priority to investigate Islam and accept it without delay.

[Kiro]

Stop criticising me. I didn't hunt him down, we just met. Back off and give me a break will you. I'm 18 in a few months so yes, I am practically an adult now and I'll do a I choose, not what others want me to do.

Thank you very much.

Don't take what Sabr as bad things. Sister Sabr might be like one of those aunties casually sitting on a chair with some tea and you say "I'm going to do it, I'm going to jump" but auntie says, "go on and do it, you're old enough to make your decisions" *sips tea*

well I don't know if this post was good but remember, Sabr is your sister if its in Islam or Humanity. We all care. Sometimes, they might sound harsh though but they're big softies in the inside.

[EgyptPrincess]

Your actions are indeed separate from theirs but you need to understand that your fathers religion, honor, respect, culture, values, beliefs, principles, background and right down to his bones and nerves don't allow him to accept his daughter being involved in a relationship with a man who is not her husband. It kills him, Yet, he has put all these matters aside for your happiness & on the pact that you will study Islam and perhaps realise on your own the values which he feels he has completely failed to install in you. Religion, respect, family values, are important to every person but he has seen that his daughter has not understood, valued or shown any regard to these matters or even to him as her father, and because of this he feels he has failed as a parent. It was the boyfriend who seemed more concerned about the situation than his own daughter was. What can he say after that other than do as you please, these are not the words of permission but the words which come from a broken heart. He has seen his position with his daughter and the regard she gave him, he is a broken father and man who cannot even lift his head in society anymore. He doesn't have 100% - it's 0%. You have got your boyfriend - you have got your way. What can he say to you except hope that you will look into Islam and at least realise what you are doing is wrong and try to put things right. Because if you knew what you were doing was wrong or at least had some regard, you wouldnt speak of spending the weekends with your boyfriend or going on holidays with him at least, even if you cannot leave complete contact. And we certainly wouldn't be reading comments like "I need to put my foot down" especially when, wheather you mean to or not, the foot is going right into your fathers face. It is very sad and the attitude it shows, especially when your father is only trying to advise you about getting the best in this life and the next.

Sincerely speaking, my intentions are not to bash you, but to help you realise and understand, because from your comments it seems like you haven't even began to realise the implications of your decision to remain in a relationship with your boyfriend or long term effects and consequences this will have upon you, your family and your hereafter. It doesn't effect your boyfriend as much as it effects you though the last part (hereafter) effects us all equally.


Are you afraid to test his love for you? How much time do you both need? Islam is clear , it's not a mystery which requires months of investigation. At least then you won't take so long looking into Islam at your own leisurely pace while you sin along the way. What if death met the one of you in that state? That is not showing a regard or sincerely trying and wanting to do the right thing. Why doesn't it matter to you whether your boyfriend accepts Islam? You are a Muslim, you at least believe in Allah do you not? You have something that he does not know about, and if you have any faith at all that Islam is true, then it should matter to you a lot that he seriously look into Islam, for his sake, your sake, your parents sake and if he believes in God then for Gods sake. Why should you be the one to sacrifice all these important matters and put your hereafter at risk, especially when your boyfriend is willing to seriously look into Islam and perhaps even marry you. It is his turn, he needs to make some changes, I know you love him but be patient, stand your ground upon Islam if you believe it is correct, do it for the sake of Allah this time, let your father feel some pride that atleast my daughter tried, after everything that your father has sacrificed for you, you owe him that much atleast. Let your boyfriend earn you, and remember you are only pulling him in a direction which is good for his life and next life , plus you can enjoy each other's company in a lawful way if he accepts. If he loves you and is a reasonable man which it seems he is, if he wants you back in way which would be acceptable to your faith and parents, he would make it a priority to investigate Islam and accept it without delay.

I can't really argue with this ^o)

OK I'll think about it.

[BeTheChange]

Asalamualykum,

I would just like to remind everyone, including myself of the below hadith:

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah, may Allaah be pleased with him, said: The Messenger of Allaah, may peace and blessings be upon him, said:

“The believer is the mirror of the believer.”
[Abu Daawud, no. 4918, with a good chain]

What is the purpose of a mirror? It exposes our physical appearance and tells us how we look so we can make the relevant adjustment i.e. fix our hijaab if our hair is showing, cover our modesty, remove dirt from our clothes and so on. In the same way a believer advises his/her brother of his/her flaws with good intention so they can improve to gain the pleasure of Allah swt.

We should say Alhamdulilah when we hear 'criticism' or areas of improvement because we can all improve in big or small ways especially when it comes to our character. How often do our 'friends' give us constructive criticism so we can improve? Maybe we hang around with friends who just praise us to feed our ego? Does this do us justice in the long run?

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have only been sent to perfect good characteristics.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari in al-Adab al-Mufrad (273) and classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah (45).

[piXie]

I can't really argue with this ^o)

OK I'll think about it.

Alhamdulillah, may Allaah give you the courage to do the right thing and ultimately grant you, your parents and Youngen success and happiness. Aameen.

:wasalamex

[Serinity]

@EgyptPrincess

Islam is not harsh, it forbids you from doing stuff that'd be detrimental to your Akhira, and this life. Allah SWT puts rules etc. For our benefit, to help us.

Cherish Islam, and asking questions is completely fine. Allah SWT puts restrictions only for OUR benefit, not to oppress us, but to liberate us. I ask Allah to make you turn to Islam.

http://legacy.quran.com/4/26-29 Read this - And I advice you to read the whole surah. :)

Remember - as long as you live you can repent to Allah SWT. The door of repentance closes when you DIE.

[EgyptPrincess]

Islam is not harsh, it forbids you from doing stuff that'd be detrimental to your Akhira, and this life. Allah SWT puts rules etc. For our benefit, to help us.

Cherish Islam, and asking questions is completely fine. Allah SWT puts restrictions only for OUR benefit, not to oppress us, but to liberate us. I ask Allah to make you turn to Islam.

Read this - And I advice you to read the whole surah. :)

Remember - as long as you live you can repent to Allah SWT. The door of repentance closes when you DIE.

Thank you brother. I am trying :)

[Bhabha]

There are some really awesome styles for hijab :) a lot of Indonesian modest clothing is so beautiful and the materials are so breathable !

[~ Sabr ~]

I am practically an adult now and I'll do a I choose, not what others want me to do.

Then you will be responsible for your own actions. If you choose to long for Jahannam, then that's your choice.

[sister herb]

I'm sorry if I am a failure or a bad Muslim to the people in the forum imsad

Don´t worry dear. We aren´t perfect either. Some may be too judgemental but I wish you can forgive us those some overkills. :embarrass

[~ Sabr ~]

Some may be too judgemental

It is our duty to tell people they are doing wrong.

On the Day of Judgment, when Allaah Judges, will you say He is being too "judgmental"?!

It is better that she is now made to wake up rather than on the Day of Judgement?!

[~ Sabr ~]

Fornication and Adultery: Major Sins in Islam

[sister herb]

It is our duty to tell people they are doing wrong.

I am sure that the message will be more easily understood if it is submitted in a supportive and constructive way, not only a judgmental spirit. Maybe you haven´t realized how others may experience your words. That´s natural - we sometimes may have problems to see how our own actions feels for others. It may be a lesson which is a hard to learn but it´s a part of the great lesson we could call as growing more mature and understanding person.

Yep, I believe that your purpose is good. You just need to think about how you express your concern. If you have noticed, I am not the only one who criticize your´s kind of comments. We don´t do it because we would like to hurt you but advice you.

[EgyptPrincess]

It is our duty to tell people they are doing wrong.

On the Day of Judgment, when Allaah Judges, will you say He is being too "judgmental"?!

It is better that she is now made to wake up rather than on the Day of Judgement?!

So if I were your daughter, would you do what my parents did? Or would you be a bit more understanding?

[~ Sabr ~]

So if I were your daughter, would you do what my parents did? Or would you be a bit more understanding?

I won't bring up my daughter like you have been bought up, :ia:, I will explain the reasoning behind everything she does from sources from Qur'aan and Sunnah - she won't feel the need to get out and make a boyfriend, :ia:, as she won't be forced to do anything.

May Allaah make my daughter a Haafizah, may He bring her up to Love her religion and protect her from the unbelievers, Ameen. :love:

[EgyptPrincess]

I won't bring up my daughter like you have been bought up, :ia:, I will explain the reasoning behind everything she does from sources from Qur'aan and Sunnah - she won't feel the need to get out and make a boyfriend, :ia:, as she won't be forced to do anything.

May Allaah make my daughter a Haafizah, may He bring her up to Love her religion and protect her from the unbelievers, Ameen. :love:

Inshallah she does, but what if she doesn't? You'll come down on her like a ton of bricks. I think my parents didn't do a good job of teaching me Islam and now I'm being punished for it ^o)

[~ Sabr ~]

Inshallah she does, but what if she doesn't? You'll come down on her like a ton of bricks. I think my parents didn't do a good job of teaching me Islam and now I'm being punished for it ^o)

But that is the point - I WILL teach her Islam because I was taught it myself, and I also had an interest from an early age - just like my daughter :ma: who is nearly 3 and has been to Umrah with us already. She was born a couple of days before Ramadan and always gets happy when Makkah (she calls it Allah ghar) is showing live on TV, because she's known that all her life up till now. She knows her 1st Kalimah, she knows the Qaidah (she makes alif baa taa with clay) and she knows an aayah from the Qur'aan -These things have to be instilled from an early early age in a child, or this world will TEAR THEM APART. (:ma: so she doesn't get nazar lol). Alhamulillaah may Allaah keep her steadfast on the Deen, Ameen.

Just remember - this world is like when you put a finger in the ocean and the amount of water that is left on the finger is this life compared to the Aakhirah.

May Allaah Guide you sis.

[EgyptPrincess]

But that is the point - I WILL teach her Islam because I was taught it myself, and I also had an interest from an early age - just like my daughter :ma: who is nearly 3 and has been to Umrah with us already. She was born a couple of days before Ramadan and always gets happy when Makkah (she calls it Allah ghar) is showing live on TV, because she's known that all her life up till now. She knows her 1st Kalimah, she knows the Qaidah (she makes alif baa taa with clay) and she knows an aayah from the Qur'aan -These things have to be instilled from an early early age in a child, or this world will TEAR THEM APART. (:ma: so she doesn't get nazar lol). Alhamulillaah may Allaah keep her steadfast on the Deen, Ameen.

Just remember - this world is like when you put a finger in the ocean and the amount of water that is left on the finger is this life compared to the Aakhirah.

May Allaah Guide you sis.

I don't really want to keep posting in this thread because it's just getting out of hand. It should be closed and deleted actually but nevertheless I just wanted to reply to your last post.

I understand you're teaching your daughter about Islam rather than TELLING her about Islam which is great, this wasn't the case with me but as a mother I want to you what would you do if she turned out like me? Would you disown her? Beat her? Send her back home to Saudi Arabia or Egypt or somewhere? Would you be patient with her and try to guide her?

I feel like lots of people here are not understanding how I feel and are only taking my parents side and saying that I am 100% in the wrong no question about it :hmm: You must understand that I have LOST the Islam in me... I still believe in god obviously but that core connection to Islam has rotted away and so it's not as simple as just "shut up and go back to being full muslimah" like I can just press a switch and be like you.

[Bhabha]

EgyptPrincess disregard some comments. Some people like to antagonize and cause anger. Feel free to send me a message when you are not a limited member!!!

[ConcealedGem]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Do you think our Prophet SAW would be happy with the way you're advising others? Is this the way to talk to your sisters in Islam?

سبحان الله looking down on others, that isn't very nice.

[ConcealedGem]

Theres a way to be straightforward without that attitude of yours. They are your sisters in Islam..

سبحان الله

May Allah guide us all.

[sister herb]

After reading this, I remembered one other thread about aunties in the mosque... and how they by their behavior expel all new sisters away - with tears.

Please sister, try to calm down there. We all have a lot of learn.

By the way, cute puppy. ;)

[s.ali123]

Is this account even real? :facepalm:

[Bhabha]

What is wrong with a dog? I like dogs and animals. I specially really like dogs and dobermans [emoji39]

[piXie]

I think my parents didn't do a good job of teaching me Islam and now I'm being punished for it ^o)

:sl:

Your parents tried their best and I think it is unfair that we blame them for not teaching you about Islam. They are the same parents who raised your sister too, had they been strict and controlling she would have supported your decision, but even she was devastated. Perhaps the issue is that we just hate being told what to do. Our parents want us to read the Quran for a reason because this is the book what will bring our connection with Allaah and give us the knowledge, strengthen our Eeman, but if we get angry and put it aside, how can we blame them. Knowledge and guidance is a light, and this light will not be given to us if we rebel.

May Allah guide and help us all and rectify all our affairs because we all are in need of that. Aameen.

[~ Sabr ~]

What is wrong with a dog? I like dogs and animals. I specially really like dogs and dobermans [emoji39]

Keeping a dog, touching it and kissing it

[~ Sabr ~]

but as a mother I want to you what would you do if she turned out like me? Would you disown her? Beat her? Send her back home to Saudi Arabia or Egypt or somewhere? Would you be patient with her and try to guide her?

Like I said before and I will say again, it won't come to this :ia:, because I am teaching her from the beginning.

I feel like lots of people here are not understanding how I feel and are only taking my parents side and saying that I am 100% in the wrong no question about it :hmm: You must understand that I have LOST the Islam in me... I still believe in god obviously but that core connection to Islam has rotted away and so it's not as simple as just "shut up and go back to being full muslimah" like I can just press a switch and be like you.

I am far from perfect, but you need to understand sis that what you are doing will only end you up in Jahannam.

Read books on Heaven/Hell....they will awaken your Imaan :ia:

[EgyptPrincess]

I am far from perfect, but you need to understand sis that what you are doing will only end you up in Jahannam.

Read books on Heaven/Hell....they will awaken your Imaan :ia:

Thanks what I'm doing!

Your daughter is lucky. You teach her about Islam rather than tell her about Islam. I know if you ask your daughter about the meaning behind fasting she will know about it? Fasting wasn't even explained to me until I was about 11 or 12.

Me: "why do we have to fast father?"

Father: "because it's Islam and it's important part of religion"

Great... fantastic answer.

I have no doubt in my mind Sabr that you will do a fantastic job teaching your children Islam. However the way I have been bought up, it's made me rebel.

[~ Sabr ~]

However the way I have been bought up, it's made me rebel.

So now you are old enough to realise how everything is... Why not stop rebelling? I don't understand why it would make you rebel in the first place though - if your parents are telling you to do something without telling you the reasoning behind it, then obviously they are your parents and they want best for you - did that not cross your mind?

[Serinity]

Thanks what I'm doing!

Your daughter is lucky. You teach her about Islam rather than tell her about Islam. I know if you ask your daughter about the meaning behind fasting she will know about it? Fasting wasn't even explained to me until I was about 11 or 12.

Me: "why do we have to fast father?"

Father: "because it's Islam and it's important part of religion"

Great... fantastic answer.

I have no doubt in my mind Sabr that you will do a fantastic job teaching your children Islam. However the way I have been bought up, it's made me rebel.

Instead of rebelling, start asking questions, and stop hiding behind your parents' perception or cultural perception of Islam.

As for fasting, it is because Allah SWT commanded it. Fasting has many benefits, etc. Everything in Islam is for your own benefit, ponder on that.

[EgyptPrincess]

Instead of rebelling, start asking questions, and stop hiding behind your parents' perception or cultural perception of Islam.

As for fasting, it is because Allah SWT commanded it. Fasting has many benefits, etc. Everything in Islam is for your own benefit, ponder on that.

See this is literally the kind of answer my parents would give me. For most people this may be acceptable but for me it is not so I was always frustrated when my parents said "cos Allah said".

now I know that it's to develop powers of self control and draw closer to Allah. To help resist bad habits and to voluntarily remind ourselves of the blessing of food and water that Allah swt has given us. To not take for granted as some people go hungry everyday in poor countries. Giving up food and water reminds us the importance of giving (charity) etc and not to just take take take.

Of course your answer is correct but as I explained before a child is crying out to know the answers to certain things and an answer without an explanation is not a good answer. When your son or daughter asks you what 5+5 is and you tell them 10, and they ask you "why is it 10?" and you just say "because it is"

See how far your child goes in education. It's all well and good knowing the answer to things, but knowing WHY the answer is what you've told them is so much more valuable.

[Serinity]

See this is literally the kind of answer my parents would give me. For most people this may be acceptable but for me it is not so I was always frustrated when my parents said "cos Allah said".

now I know that it's to develop powers of self control and draw closer to Allah. To help resist bad habits and to voluntarily remind ourselves of the blessing of food and water that Allah swt has given us. To not take for granted as some people go hungry everyday in poor countries. Giving up food and water reminds us the importance of giving (charity) etc and not to just take take take.

Of course your answer is correct but as I explained before a child is crying out to know the answers to certain things and an answer without an explanation is not a good answer. When your son or daughter asks you what 5+5 is and you tell them 10, and they ask you "why is it 10?" and you just say "because it is"

See how far your child goes in education. It's all well and good knowing the answer to things, but knowing WHY the answer is what you've told them is so much more valuable.

I understand. But there are times where we don't know why Allah SWT commanded us something, at that point we just say Allah knows best. (if there are)

ANYWAYS, Islam is clear, there are no shady areas, Islam is clean and white as white can get. So, continue asking!

[Futuwwa]

If EgyptPrincess feels safer, more loved and more cared for with youngen than anywhere else, then fault lies with the Islamic community for being insufficiently supportive.

youngen, in case you're still lurking, you did a good thing taking her in while she was disowned and had nowhere to go. I was going to advise you to bide your time, wait and see how things develop between her and her parents. Seems like progress has already happened, but they still have lots and lots to work out and process, so I'd still advise you to wait and see.

EgyptPrincess, one relevant thing I can think of that hasn't already been said is, consider the possibility that your father may be under quite a bit of communal pressure as well because of this, though that would depend on how widely it's known what happened. Pressure propagates along social connections too, not just through matter. All this is probably very embarrassing for him. He might have an easier time letting you run free if it wasn't publicly known. Whatever you do, help him keep up appearances, provide him with plausible deniability. Also, one last thing. Many here have denounced you as a sinner and I'm not sure whether I can argue with that, but I have to say you have shown remarkable humility, being so open-minded about Islam despite everything. Many would probably have been turned into radical antitheists from the experience.

[Bhabha]

She was not disowned. I believe she walked out of her parents house and thought that her parents had disowned her. Muslim parents would not cut off ties with their children and she is back with her parents.

[Serinity]

What is soo hard in leaving your bf for the sake of Allah SWT? It is simple, just say "bye" to your bf, and go your way. Simples. Who do you love more, Allah SWT or your bf?

Think of your hereafter, and what you'll say when you'll be questioned. Being gfs or bfs with a kafir or even a Muslim, is a sin.

[EgyptPrincess]

She was not disowned. I believe she walked out of her parents house and thought that her parents had disowned her. Muslim parents would not cut off ties with their children and she is back with her parents.

Clearly you didn't read any of my posts sister.

My father kicked me out and said he didn't want anything to do with me until I leave him and my mother didn't even try to stop him. It's only when it back fired on them and they realised I am more than happy to stay out and live with my boyfriend that they wanted me to come back. They tried to bluff and failed.

Of course they're my parents and I love them dearly. I do not hold a grudge to my parents, I understand that they're only doing what they think is best. Unfortunately what they think is best is not always best :)

[Bhabha]

Clearly you didn't read any of my posts sister.

My father kicked me out and said he didn't want anything to do with me until I leave him and my mother didn't even try to stop him. It's only when it back fired on them and they realised I am more than happy to stay out and live with my boyfriend that they wanted me to come back. They tried to bluff and failed.

Of course they're my parents and I love them dearly. I do not hold a grudge to my parents, I understand that they're only doing what they think is best. Unfortunately what they think is best is not always best :)

I read another post where you said that they were not serious about it, which was more recent than the first couple of ones. So I thought it was the later. My bad !

[Futuwwa]

I don't think you should assume it was a bluff from the start. Shock, surprise and anger makes people do hasty actions that they regret later.

[Bhabha]

I don't think you should assume it was a bluff from the start. Shock, surprise and anger makes people do hasty actions that they regret later.

I understand. But considering she is still a teenager and from when I remember I was a teenager, I used to blow things out of proportion.

[EgyptPrincess]

Can we just close this thread now? It's pointless from this point on, perhaps delete it as well.

[Moderator]

Can we just close this thread now? It's pointless from this point on, perhaps delete it as well.

You can start a new thread if further advice needed. If OP needs this thread reopened please let us know.
@EgyptPrincess @youngen


:threadclo