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BilalKid
05-03-2016, 11:59 AM
this vid true?? ^o)

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Muezzin
05-03-2016, 12:27 PM
His hair style isn't compatible with his face.
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Alpha Dude
05-03-2016, 01:03 PM
Don't ruin a reasonable and fair video with a misleading thread title.

And this has nothing to do with comparative religion.
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Bhabha
05-04-2016, 12:08 AM
I think it's that Western civilization isn't compatible with many things... considering they've pillaged, enslaved and consider ANYTHING outside of their Western political imaginary as barbaric.... look at Habermas, Russeau, John Locke...... heck, even Kant. They think everyone else is barbaric, inferior and 'uncivilized' and thus it is not Islam that is not compatible, it is the things attributed to Western civilization that is incompatible. You know when the Muslim empire was in Spain, Cordoba under Muslim rule was the most ADVANCED city in Western civilization...

Western civilization, by its mere language construction always puts things in dichotomies, in binaries, as 'inferior/superior', that's how it works and it manipulates people into thinking these kind of incompatibilities work. When the Muslims ruled parts of Spain, the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims all were able to function together. As soon as the fall of Granada in 1492 happened, the Catholic monarchs exiled the Jews, and then imposed restrictions on MUSLIMS WHO HAD CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY, because they felt the "moriscos" were inferior to the Spanish race....

-_- sometimes I bite these books... in anger and frustration, cause im "Westerner" by lineage and so deeply ashamed of my culture.
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Misbah0411
05-04-2016, 12:57 AM
Islam came to dominate and not be dominated.
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Bhabha
05-04-2016, 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
Islam came to dominate and not be dominated.
No....

[emoji28] by looking at it like dominate or be dominated you speak through the language of western civilization. Islam came to facilitate the cohabitation between peoples, not as a means to "dominate" but to tame problems and feuds.
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Misbah0411
05-04-2016, 10:42 AM
I speak it through the language of the Quran and Sunnah. Allah Azza wa Jal says: "Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of Truth among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the jizyah with willing submission and feel themselves subdued." (9:29) "It is He who has sent His Messenger with the religion of truth that He may make it prevail over all other religions even the the disbelievers may hate it." (61:9) "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those with him are severe against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves.." (48:29) The Prophet Muhammad s.a.a.w. said, “Verily Allah has shown me the eastern and western part of the earth, and I saw the authority of my Ummah (nation) dominate all that I saw.” (HADITH - Muslim #2889) It is best you conform your logic and desires with that of your Creator and be careful where you get your Islam from.
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BilalKid
05-04-2016, 10:59 AM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Don't ruin a reasonable and fair video with a misleading thread title.
so the vid good?? ^o)
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Alpha Dude
05-04-2016, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by BilalKid
so the vid good?? ^o)
You posted it, how can you not know? Didn't you watch it yourself? If not, why did you post it without having watched it first?
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BilalKid
05-05-2016, 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
You posted it, how can you not know? Didn't you watch it yourself? If not, why did you post it without having watched it first?
want ur view :shade:
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Bhabha
05-05-2016, 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
I speak it through the language of the Quran and Sunnah. Allah Azza wa Jal says: "Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of Truth among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the jizyah with willing submission and feel themselves subdued." (9:29) "It is He who has sent His Messenger with the religion of truth that He may make it prevail over all other religions even the the disbelievers may hate it." (61:9) "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those with him are severe against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves.." (48:29) The Prophet Muhammad s.a.a.w. said, “Verily Allah has shown me the eastern and western part of the earth, and I saw the authority of my Ummah (nation) dominate all that I saw.” (HADITH - Muslim #2889) It is best you conform your logic and desires with that of your Creator and be careful where you get your Islam from.
To English translations is not the same when in Arabic.
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abumuslim82
05-05-2016, 06:50 AM
Originally Posted by Bhabha
I think it's that Western civilization isn't compatible with many things... considering they've pillaged, enslaved and consider ANYTHING outside of their Western political imaginary as barbaric.... look at Habermas, Russeau, John Locke...... heck, even Kant. They think everyone else is barbaric, inferior and 'uncivilized' and thus it is not Islam that is not compatible, it is the things attributed to Western civilization that is incompatible. You know when the Muslim empire was in Spain, Cordoba under Muslim rule was the most ADVANCED city in Western civilization...

Western civilization, by its mere language construction always puts things in dichotomies, in binaries, as 'inferior/superior', that's how it works and it manipulates people into thinking these kind of incompatibilities work. When the Muslims ruled parts of Spain, the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims all were able to function together. As soon as the fall of Granada in 1492 happened, the Catholic monarchs exiled the Jews, and then imposed restrictions on MUSLIMS WHO HAD CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY, because they felt the "moriscos" were inferior to the Spanish race....

-_- sometimes I bite these books... in anger and frustration, cause im "Westerner" by lineage and so deeply ashamed of my culture.
True
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s.ali123
05-05-2016, 07:10 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
I speak it through the language of the Quran and Sunnah. Allah Azza wa Jal says: "Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of Truth among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the jizyah with willing submission and feel themselves subdued." (9:29) "It is He who has sent His Messenger with the religion of truth that He may make it prevail over all other religions even the the disbelievers may hate it." (61:9) "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those with him are severe against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves.." (48:29) The Prophet Muhammad s.a.a.w. said, “Verily Allah has shown me the eastern and western part of the earth, and I saw the authority of my Ummah (nation) dominate all that I saw.” (HADITH - Muslim #2889) It is best you conform your logic and desires with that of your Creator and be careful where you get your Islam from.
If by dominate you mean by raging war against everyone and forcing them to submit to the divine law, then I don't agree with you. The Prophet himself and the righteous Caliphs always stood up for the rights of the poor. Wallahi never they had in mind to dominate someone. And that time in order to give rights to weak, it was important that you come in power. Today we dont have any center nor we are truely following Islamic spirit rising voice for the weak, no matter muslim or non muslim. Thats the reason Islam spread so quickly because they were rising for the weak and people saw them as their saviour. So if by "dominate" you mean that the people start seeing Islam as their saviour again and submit to it with open mind and heart by their free will ( I don't know how it will happpen, only Allah knows) then yes I agree.
And if you look at the seerah of the Prophet, he first conqurred the hearts of the people! Even without Islam, they used to call him truthful and trustworthy. How many of people today find us truthful and trustworthy?
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s.ali123
05-05-2016, 07:13 AM
Originally Posted by Bhabha
I think it's that Western civilization isn't compatible with many things... considering they've pillaged, enslaved and consider ANYTHING outside of their Western political imaginary as barbaric.... look at Habermas, Russeau, John Locke...... heck, even Kant. They think everyone else is barbaric, inferior and 'uncivilized' and thus it is not Islam that is not compatible, it is the things attributed to Western civilization that is incompatible. You know when the Muslim empire was in Spain, Cordoba under Muslim rule was the most ADVANCED city in Western civilization...

Western civilization, by its mere language construction always puts things in dichotomies, in binaries, as 'inferior/superior', that's how it works and it manipulates people into thinking these kind of incompatibilities work. When the Muslims ruled parts of Spain, the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims all were able to function together. As soon as the fall of Granada in 1492 happened, the Catholic monarchs exiled the Jews, and then imposed restrictions on MUSLIMS WHO HAD CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY, because they felt the "moriscos" were inferior to the Spanish race....

-_- sometimes I bite these books... in anger and frustration, cause im "Westerner" by lineage and so deeply ashamed of my culture.
Sister I would like to know how did your perspective change on this subject. Before coming to Islam, you must have heard or read something about talking about oppression in history of Islam etc, books are filled with it. Did you have any of such idea before ?
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Bhabha
05-05-2016, 07:23 AM
Originally Posted by s.ali123
Sister I would like to know how did your perspective change on this subject. Before coming to Islam, you must have heard or read something about talking about oppression in history of Islam etc, books are filled with it. Did you have any of such idea before ?
Well before coming to Islam. I had Muslim friends who weren't really practicing at all. I will be honest that I didn't like Islam before converting. I had to move overseas to a Muslim country to actually change my perspective. I didn't really read a lot of historical or political texts before because I was mostly focusing on medicine. I just heard things about Islam and the invasions of Muslims and Arabs and slavery. Etc. It was all really one sided, I was also constantly watching things on 911 and it didn't help that half of my family is Jewish and some live as Israeli citizens.

So I heard and saw one side. Then I went overseas and my heart changed when I heard the Athan. Now I devote myself to politics and Islam so that I can write from a converts perspective about Islam outside of the mainstream.

It's just that most books that write tend to conflate Muslims, Arabs, Berbers and any kind of North African, Oriental etc. As the same. So when someone does something bad, there is a generalization that all did something bad.

Muslims do that as well for framing "Western civilization" since not all westerners are the same and some have suffered great injustices by their own "Western" people.
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s.ali123
05-05-2016, 08:14 AM
Originally Posted by Bhabha
Well before coming to Islam. I had Muslim friends who weren't really practicing at all. I will be honest that I didn't like Islam before converting. I had to move overseas to a Muslim country to actually change my perspective. I didn't really read a lot of historical or political texts before because I was mostly focusing on medicine. I just heard things about Islam and the invasions of Muslims and Arabs and slavery. Etc. It was all really one sided, I was also constantly watching things on 911 and it didn't help that half of my family is Jewish and some live as Israeli citizens.

So I heard and saw one side. Then I went overseas and my heart changed when I heard the Athan. Now I devote myself to politics and Islam so that I can write from a converts perspective about Islam outside of the mainstream.

It's just that most books that write tend to conflate Muslims, Arabs, Berbers and any kind of North African, Oriental etc. As the same. So when someone does something bad, there is a generalization that all did something bad.

Muslims do that as well for framing "Western civilization" since not all westerners are the same and some have suffered great injustices by their own "Western" people.
Have you written something yet? I would like to read some of your work if possible.
And you are right about putting everyone isln same basket. Before coming to europe, even I to some extent had similar views about west. That everyone is bad morally etc, and I will have to watch out. But many of my perspectives changed :) And since I started reading and listening more western scholars more, I got multiple perspectives about many things. I met some really nice people too in my class. Who even though are athiest mostly, but they are good people as far as this world is concerened. I pray that Allah help them see their goodness in hereafter as well.
It is also interesting to know that moving to muslim country changed your mind. Lol. Because many muslim countries are following culture in the name of Islam. Can you tell me which country or city was it that you moved to ?

Also when I compare the practices in my area with what ny fiancee told me about her palestanian society, and how nicely husband treat wife, I really find it amazing that hoe much culture affects us.
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Misbah0411
05-05-2016, 10:46 AM
Originally Posted by s.ali123
If by dominate you mean by raging war against everyone and forcing them to submit to the divine law, then I don't agree with you. The Prophet himself and the righteous Caliphs always stood up for the rights of the poor. Wallahi never they had in mind to dominate someone. And that time in order to give rights to weak, it was important that you come in power. Today we dont have any center nor we are truely following Islamic spirit rising voice for the weak, no matter muslim or non muslim. Thats the reason Islam spread so quickly because they were rising for the weak and people saw them as their saviour. So if by "dominate" you mean that the people start seeing Islam as their saviour again and submit to it with open mind and heart by their free will ( I don't know how it will happpen, only Allah knows) then yes I agree.
And if you look at the seerah of the Prophet, he first conqurred the hearts of the people! Even without Islam, they used to call him truthful and trustworthy. How many of people today find us truthful and trustworthy?
I think you better look at the history of Islam and how the Sahaba understood Islam. Yes the Prophet s.a.a.w. focused on building iman and winnning the hearts of people, but once the Islamic State was established in Medina then the commands of Jihad were revealed and it was time to dominate the disbelievers into submission. Muslims have a willful misunderstanding of their history and some of it is due to trying to appease the kuffar and be politically correct instead of just embracing the truth of the matter and never fear the blame of the blamer. Another reason is they get their Islamic history lesson from the movie, The Message. Yes, there is no compulsion in religion. But there is compulsion to live under the Law of Allah. Shariah is suppose to reign supreme because only Shariah is pure justice for mankind. Secular law doesn't fulfill that. It is corrupt. It is riddled with debt. It is immoral. How did the Sahaba understand Islam? From the best teacher of manking, Muhammad s.a.a.w What was one of the last missions of the Prophet's s.a.a.w life? The Battle of Tabuk and engage the Romans since the Arabian Peninsula was dominated by Islam. What did the Caliphs after him do? Defeat and dominate the peoples of Persia, As-Sham and North Africa? What was Khalid bin Waleed's statement to the enemy before he would go into battle? He would say: "To proceed: Embrace Islam and thereby achieve safety, or take protection for yourself and your people and agree to pay the Jizyah tax. Otherwise, blame no one save yourself. For indeed, I have come to you with a people who love death just as you love life." Once people were dominated and they lived under Shariah Law, then they became convinced of the justice and beauty of Islam and embraced the True Faith. Al-Hamdulilah
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Misbah0411
05-05-2016, 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by Bhabha
To English translations is not the same when in Arabic.
Ok so you tell me the Arabic meanings of the ayats. Better yet how about we understand those ayats according to how the Sahaba, Tabieen and classical scholars of Tafsir understood them?
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s.ali123
05-05-2016, 11:10 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
I think you better look at the history of Islam and how the Sahaba understood Islam. Yes the Prophet s.a.a.w. focused on building iman and winnning the hearts of people, but once the Islamic State was established in Medina then the commands of Jihad were revealed and it was time to dominate the disbelievers into submission. Muslims have a willful misunderstanding of their history and some of it is due to trying to appease the kuffar and be politically correct instead of just embracing the truth of the matter and never fear the blame of the blamer. Another reason is they get their Islamic history lesson from the movie, The Message. Yes, there is no compulsion in religion. But there is compulsion to live under the Law of Allah. Shariah is suppose to reign supreme because only Shariah is pure justice for mankind. Secular law doesn't fulfill that. It is corrupt. It is riddled with debt. It is immoral. How did the Sahaba understand Islam? From the best teacher of manking, Muhammad s.a.a.w What was one of the last missions of the Prophet's s.a.a.w life? The Battle of Tabuk and engage the Romans since the Arabian Peninsula was dominated by Islam. What did the Caliphs after him do? Defeat and dominate the peoples of Persia, As-Sham and North Africa? What was Khalid bin Waleed's statement to the enemy before he would go into battle? He would say: "To proceed: Embrace Islam and thereby achieve safety, or take protection for yourself and your people and agree to pay the Jizyah tax. Otherwise, blame no one save yourself. For indeed, I have come to you with a people who love death just as you love life." Once people were dominated and they lived under Shariah Law, then they became convinced of the justice and beauty of Islam and embraced the True Faith. Al-Hamdulilah
Brother I know my history well enough. Alhamdulillah. I am not saying something to please west or anyone. I told you before that surely Islam will dominate ultimately as told by the Prophet, but at current time if you feel that you can do it just by waging war agianst one another, then may God guide you towards good. Even the Prophet if you look deeply didn't said something atrocious to the romans. Let me copy paste you the letter of the Prophet to the Romans,
"In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
This letter is from Muhammad the slave of God and His Messenger to Heraclius, the ruler of the Byzantines.
Peace be upon him who follows the right path.
I am writing this invitation to call you to Islam. If you become a Muslim you will be safe - and God will double your reward, but if you reject this invitation of Islam you will bear the sin of having misguided your subjects. Thus do I urge you to heed the following:
“O People of the Scriptures! Come to a word common to you and us that we worship none but Allah and that we associate nothing in worship with Him, and that none of us shall take others as Lords beside Allah. Then if they turn away, say: Bear witness that we are Muslims.”
Muhammad, the Messenger of God"

The news had come that the romans in reply to that letter were preparing to attack Muslims, they could simply stay silent and not do anything! Even later it was not like they were providing justice to the people. The Muslims rose to give justice to the people.
What the Prophet brought was giving due right to the poor, speaking for the weak and perfecting one's character. That is always what the Prophet spoke for. And once the state was established Prophet waged war against those who were not giving rights to the weak ones. Islam spread through the marvelous character and the justice they were offering, even to the non-muslims. To the extent that once they even used to return the jizya they took, once they were not able to protect non-muslims from the outside attacks.
But never the less, a muslim is always supposed to act with wisdom. In current situation more than waging war, we need the makkan phase of the Prophet of buiding one's character and conduct. The Prophet S.A.W. took the best route to spread Islam. And we should do the same according to our time. So first thing is to build your own character and conduct. And spread the message of Islam both with words and the perfection of character.
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keiv
05-05-2016, 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by Bhabha
I think it's that Western civilization isn't compatible with many things... considering they've pillaged, enslaved and consider ANYTHING outside of their Western political imaginary as barbaric.... look at Habermas, Russeau, John Locke...... heck, even Kant. They think everyone else is barbaric, inferior and 'uncivilized' and thus it is not Islam that is not compatible, it is the things attributed to Western civilization that is incompatible. You know when the Muslim empire was in Spain, Cordoba under Muslim rule was the most ADVANCED city in Western civilization...

Western civilization, by its mere language construction always puts things in dichotomies, in binaries, as 'inferior/superior', that's how it works and it manipulates people into thinking these kind of incompatibilities work. When the Muslims ruled parts of Spain, the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims all were able to function together. As soon as the fall of Granada in 1492 happened, the Catholic monarchs exiled the Jews, and then imposed restrictions on MUSLIMS WHO HAD CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY, because they felt the "moriscos" were inferior to the Spanish race....

-_- sometimes I bite these books... in anger and frustration, cause im "Westerner" by lineage and so deeply ashamed of my culture.
I can't watch the video at the moment but, pretty much this..
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Pygoscelis
05-05-2016, 01:12 PM
Entirely depends on what is meant by "Islam". Let's not pretend that it is the same everywhere or everywhen. I know plenty of Western Muslims, even very liberal ones, that coexist in perfect harmony with the larger societies that they live in. And then you have those who want to dominate the rest of us and tell us we must live as they do and do this and refrain from that.

So long as you have a keep it to yourself attitude, I will have no issue with you. But as soon as you try to run my life based on what I see as your delusions, we are not going to get along. For many muslims it makes sense to simply stay out of western societies.
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Bhabha
05-05-2016, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Entirely depends on what is meant by "Islam". Let's not pretend that it is the same everywhere or everywhen. I know plenty of Western Muslims, even very liberal ones, that coexist in perfect harmony with the larger societies that they live in. And then you have those who want to dominate the rest of us and tell us we must live as they do and do this and refrain from that.

So long as you have a keep it to yourself attitude, I will have no issue with you. But as soon as you try to run my life based on what I see as your delusions, we are not going to get along. For many muslims it makes sense to simply stay out of western societies.
Which liberal countries live in "perfect" harmony? It might not be obvious to you, because you are not visually stigmatized for either being a foreigner or a Muslim. When I converted and exercised my right to religious freedom that has been so rammed into non-western countries (Afghanistan). I realized religious freedom in these so called liberal western democracies is religious freedom as long as it is within what liberal countries want it to be. I.E Christianity, agnosticism, Catholicism, etc. Becoming Muslim, I was literally re-racialized, me a very white Caucasian looking person, I was thought as foreign, inferior, Arabic or brown, as though I didn't speak English. Lol even when I speak English now, people ask me how do I speak it so well! As though I am an idiot, then I say to them for jokes, oh English is the easiest language to learn!

The society you describe as "And then you have those who want to dominate the rest of us and tell us we must live as they do and do this and refrain from that" are western liberal societies who do the exact same thing and have been doing it for a long long long time.

For Muslims who were born, raised, and who have been living in western societies for generations, their home is here, but we are made to feel like foreigners. My mother always tells me "belief is internal, you don't need to wear the hijab" the assumption that all other religions function like Protestantism is kind of annoying. Islam is both internal AND external because the hijab is required for prayer, being clean after you go to the washroom with water and not just toiled paper is a requirement for even having these prayers validated. Everything is so intrinsically connected, that when people bother women about the hijab in liberal societies they are bothering women about their own choice to make to wear the hijab and thus belittling them and their conscious decision.

Anyhow enough of me ranting...
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Pygoscelis
05-05-2016, 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by Bhabha
Which liberal countries live in "perfect" harmony?
I know some liberal Muslims who live quite comfortably and harmoniously here in Toronto. Many of them wear hajibs. Nobody freaks out about it. We do take issue with the Sikh guys who want to carry knives (Kirpan), but they get away with it currently, and there was an issue over a Muslima who wanted to wear a full on burqa on her driver's license (rendering the photo pointless). There was also Stephen Harper in the last election who wanted to deny women from covering their faces while taking oath of citizenship and becoming Canadian. I don't find that completely unreasonable, but he faced backlash for it (and he lost the election).

Yes, there is a history of Europeans doing horrible things and western imperialism is still active. I stood with those that protested against the Bush wars and I oppose imperialism in all of its forms. There is also a huge negative perception of Islam and Muslims in the west, especially following 9/11. But let's not pretend that popped into existence out of nowhere. Everything from 9/11 to Charlie Hebdo to Daesh to the nut that attacked Canada's parliament has fueled it. This has been unfairly generalized to Muslims as whole, a sort of broad brushing which pretty much always happens due to tribal human minds (and yes, Muslims do it too).

Those of us who recognize tribalism and bigotry for what it is push the message that Islam is not the enemy, and not all Muslims are terrorist Deash types (which should be obvious, and is to anybody who isn't a bigot). And you would think that decent Muslims everywhere would take us as allies in that, and seriously slam against the radical Muslims who promote violence and hatred. A lot of decent Muslims do. I know a few very outspoken ones. But what really shocks a lot of non-muslims is that a far greater outcry comes when somebody draws a cartoon. That is ridiculous.

When those cartoons were brought into the public eye (by Muslims protesting them and calling attention to them (so more people could see them?) after they had gone unseen long before), very few in the west dared to publish them, both because they feared a very real threat of violence and because they didn't want to offend. This set up a double standard (you can have "the Book of Mormon" and not fear death) and further painted Muslims as fragile and potentially violent. Later we had the Charlie Hebdo massacre. Je Suis Charlie.

On this very board I have come across Muslims I find perfectly compatible, with a live and let live attitude, who I would call my own brothers and sister and stand and protect them from western bigots who lump them in with the above perception of Islam. I have also come across those who want to hunt and kill homosexuals, and equate Atheism with true Evil.

I don't know about you personally, but perhaps you are in the former group. Tonight I am having dinner with my neighbours, who happen to be a married gay couple. We may invite the man across the street and the quirky single woman a few doors down. We'll all be drinking wine and listening to music on the stereo. We may dance. Next weekend if the weather is as nice as it was last weekend, I may go down to the nude beach and soak in some sun. If you were my neighbour, would this be a problem for you? Would you try to shut any of this down on us? So long as none of us tried to stop you from praying in your house or wearing your head scarf, would you co-exist with us harmoniously? I think you probably could, and the bigotry that you may face (especially in the US or France right now) is something that we can both fight against together.
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Alpha Dude
05-05-2016, 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by BilalKid
want ur view :shade:
My view is that you should post videos only after watching them yourself and making sure you have understood what you have seen.

Please do that in future.
Reply

Misbah0411
05-05-2016, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by s.ali123
But never the less, a muslim is always supposed to act with wisdom. In current situation more than waging war, we need the makkan phase of the Prophet of buiding one's character and conduct. The Prophet S.A.W. took the best route to spread Islam. And we should do the same according to our time. So first thing is to build your own character and conduct. And spread the message of Islam both with words and the perfection of character.
We are no longer in the "Makkan Phase" This is a phrase that the Modernist Deviants use to pacify and accept the status quo of the Ummah. And tell me, how is that working for you and the Muslims for the last 100 years? Instead of dominating, we are being dominated. The more you want to delude yourself into thinking your in a "Makkan Phase" the more you compromise Islam to the contentment of the kuffar. May Allah Azza wa Jal protect us from the whims and desires of our own selves. Ameen.
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s.ali123
05-06-2016, 05:22 AM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
We are no longer in the "Makkan Phase" This is a phrase that the Modernist Deviants use to pacify and accept the status quo of the Ummah. And tell me, how is that working for you and the Muslims for the last 100 years? Instead of dominating, we are being dominated. The more you want to delude yourself into thinking your in a "Makkan Phase" the more you compromise Islam to the contentment of the kuffar. May Allah Azza wa Jal protect us from the whims and desires of our own selves. Ameen.
And how is the "dominate" phase going for you except now we have, broken libya, again dictator in egypt, civil war and destroyed syria (which may Allah end soon), two countries saudia and iran fighting cats and mouse every now and then. The more you will keep this thinking of "kuffar", the more you will not focus on yourself. I have seen so many people speaking so much bad about governemnt and west and this n thay etc, and at the end of the day, they do the same whenever they get even opportunity of oppressing the weak! Civil wars will not benefit anyone except bringing chaos to these poor lands. And stop judging and putting everyone to one basket by saying that these kind of arguements are used by modernist. If you mean by it people like Majid Nawaz or Irshad Manji, then sorry I dont support them. But there are many sincere people who follow the same and are doing (and have done) much better, like Dr. Israr Ahmed, Nouman Ali Khan, Mufti Menk, Shaikh Hamza Yousuf, Dr. Tariq Ramadan etc.
The people who bringing chaos are not doing ummah any favor. Ask yourself from where even they are purchasing there weapons for it! From the same west about who they spend day and night criticizng. They don't even have any caoability or technology to develop even simple weapons. With that situation if you want to fight with your so called "kuffar" mentality, then salam alaikum.
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s.ali123
05-06-2016, 05:35 AM
You cannot simply cherry pick points from seerah without deeper understanding and start applying it as you wish! I would advice to first stop getting emotional. Muslim never gets emotional in these matters. Remember when a person asked the prophet to give him advice, he said, "Dont get angry" he again asked thinking that it is not enough, give me something more important, so he again asked. Prophet said, "dont get angry". He again asked, prophet again said " dont get angry".
If muslims follow even this single advice, they would be in much better shape. Prophet and companions never fought someone with anger. Ali RAA when in the fight, at his last blow when the disbeliever spit on Ali's face, Ali turned back. He asked him why he did that, he said before I was fighting for Allah and when you spit, the thought of fighting for myself came.
Do you think muslims today have that character today! If not, then first work and guide others to achieve Prohpet's character first, and then think of dying for his cause. Otherwise you will end up only disgracing his name.
It is much easier to "die" for the deen instead of "living" by the deen.
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Misbah0411
05-06-2016, 10:42 AM
Originally Posted by s.ali123
And how is the "dominate" phase going for you except now we have, broken libya, again dictator in egypt, civil war and destroyed syria (which may Allah end soon), two countries saudia and iran fighting cats and mouse every now and then. The more you will keep this thinking of "kuffar", the more you will not focus on yourself. I have seen so many people speaking so much bad about governemnt and west and this n thay etc, and at the end of the day, they do the same whenever they get even opportunity of oppressing the weak! Civil wars will not benefit anyone except bringing chaos to these poor lands. And stop judging and putting everyone to one basket by saying that these kind of arguements are used by modernist. If you mean by it people like Majid Nawaz or Irshad Manji, then sorry I dont support them. But there are many sincere people who follow the same and are doing (and have done) much better, like Dr. Israr Ahmed, Nouman Ali Khan, Mufti Menk, Shaikh Hamza Yousuf, Dr. Tariq Ramadan etc.
The people who bringing chaos are not doing ummah any favor. Ask yourself from where even they are purchasing there weapons for it! From the same west about who they spend day and night criticizng. They don't even have any caoability or technology to develop even simple weapons. With that situation if you want to fight with your so called "kuffar" mentality, then salam alaikum.
^^ This defeatist mentality^^ So I guess Salahuddin should of just accepted the Crusaders in As-Sham since more fighting would just create more choas. And Ibn-Taymiyah should of just sat back and not inspire to rise up against the Tatars when they over ran the Muslim Lands. Go back to your self-delusion and Hamza Yusef videos along with the rest of the Rand scholars. Pathetic.
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Muezzin
05-06-2016, 11:35 AM
Someone posts a video.

Hardly anyone actually watches the video.

Muslims start arguing with each other and everyone else.

...I don't think that is the purpose of this forum.
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s.ali123
05-06-2016, 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Someone posts a video.

Hardly anyone actually watches the video.

Muslims start arguing with each other and everyone else.

...I don't think that is the purpose of this forum.
I was just telling my point of view ;D I put down weapon of arguement. :hiding:
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