Does the Quran say the universe is infinite or finite?

[Hi, I'm James.]

Greetings :)

It's quite accepted now that space is infinite and flat. NASA recently measured and it came back as being flat with an accuracy of 99.6%.

Does the Quran say the universe is infinite or finite? Also does it mention anything about the end of the universe?

Thanks.

[Kiro]

I think the Qu'ran just says, the universe is ever expanding

[Serinity]

I don't think it is infinite, tho it is expanding. And Allah knows best.

Afaik, every creation of Allah SWT has an end. May Allah SWT forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.

[Hi, I'm James.]

I don't think it is infinite, tho it is expanding. And Allah knows best.

What is your reasoning for this belief? So far the evidence points to the universe being infinite and flat.

An infinite universe doesn't mean that heaven and hell are inside the universe... I believe that if heaven and hell exist, they're located outside the infinite universe. The universe if spatially infinite but of course god has the power to go beyond this.

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[Serinity]

What is your reasoning for this belief? So far the evidence points to the universe being infinite and flat.

An infinite universe doesn't mean that heaven and hell are inside the universe... I believe that if heaven and hell exist, they're located outside the infinite universe. The universe if spatially infinite but of course god has the power to go beyond this.

I mean, I could see why the universe could be like paper, but it does have a beginning, and anything with a beginning must have an end..

For now, it may seem as if the universe is ever-expanding. Thus one may think it is infinite, but I don't think it is, cause in the Quran, afaik, Allah will roll up the heavens, or something like that. It will have an end.

But one thing is for sure, the universe is not infinite, it had a beginning.

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said anything wrong.
Allahu alam.

[Hi, I'm James.]

I mean, I could see why the universe could be like paper, but it does have a beginning, and anything with a beginning must have an end..

For now, it may seem as if the universe is ever-expanding. Thus one may think it is infinite, but I don't think it is, cause in the Quran, afaik, Allah will roll up the heavens, or something like that. It will have an end.

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said anything wrong.
Allahu alam.

I'm sure Allah will forgive you and everyone else when we discuss things which we cannot yet know the answer to :)

The universe can be infinite an expand at the same time, by it's very definition infinite means "never ending" which means the universe can be infinite but still get larger.

hmm one thing I think is misunderstood about the beginning is that space is not inside something... space IS everything and so the creation of the universe with infinite to begin with :)

Of course we only know about the universe we can see... there is parts of space we will never ever see because it's moving too fast away from us. Perhaps Allah made the universe the way he did to troll us xD

[Serinity]

I'm sure Allah will forgive you and everyone else when we discuss things which we cannot yet know the answer to :)

The universe can be infinite an expand at the same time, by it's very definition infinite means "never ending" which means the universe can be infinite but still get larger.

hmm one thing I think is misunderstood about the beginning is that space is not inside something... space IS everything and so the creation of the universe with infinite to begin with :)

Of course we only know about the universe we can see... there is parts of space we will never ever see because it's moving too fast away from us. Perhaps Allah made the universe the way he did to troll us xD

Nah, He SWT made it as such, that we'd know He SWT created it.

Btw, I don't think this universe is infinite.. I mean, take a database, where there is information, you'd normally, and understandibly ask "who put the information IN the database? Who coded the information?"

Similiarily I think with the creation, "Who initiated it? Who coded us?" etc.. to me it is logical that there is a Creator.

But to say the universe is infinite doesn't make sense. Cause any created being must have a beginning. Anything with a beginning must have an end.

I'd like to share an ayat:

“We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth”

[Fussilat 41:53].

The universe can not create itself. I believe it is Allah SWT that created it, as it sounds more rational....... And makes more sense.

We say Allah SWT is The Eternal, with no beginning or end, who created this universe. Which has a beginning.

May Allah SWT grant you guidance. Ameen. Read the Quran, it will make you think. :)

[Hi, I'm James.]

Nah, He SWT made it as such, that we'd know He SWT created it.

Btw, I don't think this universe is infinite.. I mean, take a database, where there is information, you'd normally, and understandibly ask "who put the information IN the database? Who coded the information?"

Similiarily I think with the creation, "Who initiated it? Who coded us?" etc.. to me it is logical that there is a Creator.

But to say the universe is infinite doesn't make sense. Cause any created being must have a beginning. Anything with a beginning must have an end.

I'd like to share an ayat:

“We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth”

[Fussilat 41:53].

The universe can not create itself. I believe it is Allah SWT that created it, as it sounds more rational....... And makes more sense.

We say Allah SWT is The Eternal, with no beginning or end, who created this universe. Which has a beginning.

May Allah SWT grant you guidance. Ameen. Read the Quran, it will make you think. :)

Thanks for your reply.

Well of course I do not know if the universe was created from nothing, I believe the universe (energy) has always existed, hence it was never created. Like Allah has always existed, I think the universe has always existed.

I think the universe follows the cyclic theory where the universe, which is just energy, expands and then collapses and expands and then collapses and each expansion is the big bang. This goes on forever. Of course this sounds ridiculous to you, but for me I believe this quite strongly, not as strongly as you believe in Allah of course.

I will read some Quran tonight before bed.

[ardianto]

An infinite universe doesn't mean that heaven and hell are inside the universe... I believe that if heaven and hell exist, they're located outside the infinite universe. The universe if spatially infinite but of course god has the power to go beyond this.

Qur'an does not say that heaven and hell are in "alam dunya" (the wordly universe) where we are living now. But heaven and hell are in another universe that called "alam akhirat" (the last universe) where human can go there only after death.

Is the universe where we are living now infinite?. Yes.

:)

[Kiro]

I'm sure Allah will forgive you and everyone else when we discuss things which we cannot yet know the answer to :)

The universe can be infinite an expand at the same time, by it's very definition infinite means "never ending" which means the universe can be infinite but still get larger.

hmm one thing I think is misunderstood about the beginning is that space is not inside something... space IS everything and so the creation of the universe with infinite to begin with :)

Of course we only know about the universe we can see... there is parts of space we will never ever see because it's moving too fast away from us. Perhaps Allah made the universe the way he did to troll us xD

well you can actually count to infinity apparently so why not

[Hi, I'm James.]

well you can actually count to infinity apparently so why not

You cannot count to infinity because infinity is not a number.

[Misbah0411]

Greetings :)

It's quite accepted now that space is infinite and flat. NASA recently measured and it came back as being flat with an accuracy of 99.6%.

Does the Quran say the universe is infinite or finite? Also does it mention anything about the end of the universe?

Thanks.

Spend your time in coming to understand your Creator and not to come here planting seeds of doubt for the Muslims. Knowing whether the universe is finite or infinite is a distant doesn't matter compared to knowing your Lord, what He expects from you and what He commands you to do and refrain from.

[MuslimInshallah]

Hello James,

Mmm... could you give a reference for space-time being flat? Because Einstein showed it to be curved...

Gravity as Curved Spacetime

Einstein eventually identified the property of spacetime which is responsible for gravity as its curvature. Space and time in Einstein's universe are no longer flat (as implicitly assumed by Newton) but can pushed and pulled, stretched and warped by matter. Gravity feels strongest where spacetime is most curved, and it vanishes where spacetime is flat. This is the core of Einstein's theory of general relativity, which is often summed up in words as follows: "matter tells spacetime how to curve, and curved spacetime tells matter how to move". A standard way to illustrate this idea is to place a bowling ball (representing a massive object such as the sun) onto a stretched rubber sheet (representing spacetime). If a marble is placed onto the rubber sheet, it will roll toward the bowling ball, and may even be put into "orbit" around the bowling ball. This occurs, not because the smaller mass is "attracted" by a force emanating from the larger one, but because it is traveling along a surface which has been deformed by the presence of the larger mass. In the same way gravitation in Einstein's theory arises not as a force propagating through spacetime, but rather as a feature of spacetime itself. According to Einstein, your weight on earth is due to the fact that your body is traveling through warped spacetime!

Source: https://einstein.stanford.edu/SPACETIME/spacetime2.html

[Kiro]

You cannot count to infinity because infinity is not a number.

I'm pretty sure, it's been proven that you can count to infinity

[Serinity]

Thanks for your reply.

Well of course I do not know if the universe was created from nothing, I believe the universe (energy) has always existed, hence it was never created. Like Allah has always existed, I think the universe has always existed.

I think the universe follows the cyclic theory where the universe, which is just energy, expands and then collapses and expands and then collapses and each expansion is the big bang. This goes on forever. Of course this sounds ridiculous to you, but for me I believe this quite strongly, not as strongly as you believe in Allah of course.

I will read some Quran tonight before bed.

Well that sounds contradictory to me, something that is an incident can not be eternal.

I rather believe in Allah SWT. Cause anything created can never be eternal. The big bang had a beginning, thus it was created. Energy is created too.

You can not call something that has an incident uncreated. Sounds like you are trying to clash 2 contradicting terms...... One has to do some brain gymnastics to believe thus, cuz it honestly makes no sense.

Allah is above time and space, so just like you see ecosystems, they go in repeated cycles, this Universe was created like it was.

You are essentially calling this universe, the creator, audhu billah.

I believe there is a concsious being outside time and space who initiated this whole universe. To say otherwise is like saying "the universe started itself" nothing can begin or start by itself, cause anything with a start must have a cause. t

Try and read this: https://islamqa.info/en/219688

I rather not confuse myself with such theories lol.

Why don't you accept Allah / God as the Creator of the universe? Who has no beginning or end? Why do you insist on denying Allah?

As for me I believe Allah SWT created everything, and everything that has come to existence and everything that exists, must have a creator, a Creator whom has no creator. Who is Eternal.

Don't you think/see that this universe had to have come from somewhere, that someone made it? To say otherwise, and with this cyclical theory, it is as if you've taken this universe as God, audhu billah. Don't you see the delusion in that?

[Serinity]

Btw, I don't see this universe as infinite, unless I am proven wrong by the Quran.

Energy is created too, it isn't uncreated. Why do I say this? I believe Allah SWT created energy in a closed loop or something. Cause only Allah SWT is uncreated, uncaused.

James, perhaps try to look at the universe from another perspective, don't you see conscious design? Don't you see yourself as evidence?

[Bhabha]

On the consideration that اللهُ created energy, it falls outside of the current understanding of man if it is in a loop then the rationality would be that it is neither created nor destroyed, but since اللهُ is uncreated or uncaused because اللهُ is the causer of this energy then it exists in this infinite loop and thus recycles itself. If I made sense

[Serinity]

On the consideration that اللهُ created energy, it falls outside of the current understanding of man if it is in a loop then the rationality would be that it is neither created nor destroyed, but since اللهُ is uncreated or uncaused because اللهُ is the causer of this energy then it exists in this infinite loop and thus recycles itself. If I made sense

Yeah, since Allah is able to loop something, and close the system,

Though this universe did have a beginning. It is expanding, yes. but it had a beginning, because Allah SWT is the First and the Last.

[Bhabha]

There are things humans will not understand. Just like before when the Quran was revealed, there were things that could not be understood by humans back then, but now it has made sense :)

[Serinity]

I think it is because we are too emersed / used to these blessings, and we are too close to ourselves, we get blinded or something.

Allahu Alam.

[Bhabha]

I think it is because we are too emersed / used to these blessings, and we are too close to ourselves, we get blinded or something.

Allahu Alam.

No it's because our minds are nothing compared to the complexities. We do not even use 5% of our brain capacity, how can we even begin to say that we understand anything ?

[Serinity]

No it's because our minds are nothing compared to the complexities. We do not even use 5% of our brain capacity, how can we even begin to say that we understand anything ?

I see. Indeed, the complexities of life should be evident for the existence of Allah, for those who give thought. :)

[Bhabha]

Indeed ! :)

[Khalid Saifullah]

Only the Being of Allaah is infinite and us there from eternity , everything else , including the universe , come into existence by the will of Allaah.

The universe , although is constantly expanding , is finite and it will be destroyed at some stage . It will be then reconstituted to better suit the afterlife .

And Allâh Ta’ala knows best

[Hi, I'm James.]

Why don't you accept Allah / God as the Creator of the universe? Who has no beginning or end? Why do you insist on denying Allah?

You make it sound so simple. Oh I wish it was as simple as you claim. Let's look at what I am risking by denying Allah.

I am risking not seeing my mother again.
I am risking going to hellfire fore eternity!

You honestly for a single second that someone would willingly risk having this happen to them if they believe in Allah lol? If I believed in Allah I was try to be the best Muslim in the world! I would be so worried about this punishment that I would not do a single thing to jeopardise my future in heaven. So again I reiterate myself, I am not choosing to go against god. It's out of my control.

I want to ask you one thing, please don't get offended by it.

You say that something cannot come from nothing and something cannot have always existed, but then you go on to accept that Allah has always existed? How can this be?

If Allah (which is a thing) can exist without creation, why can't the energy, which is also a thing? You consider Allah to be a person ^o) what if Allah IS the universe? This would then tie in with the universe having always existed, because Allah is the universe?

Just a though. Do Muslims think Allah is a person? Like a "man in the sky" or do they think he is some other object or what? Since energy is indestructible and cannot be created or destroyed, it would make sense that Alllah is energy. Which means Allah is the universe. Please explain in a kind manner :)

[sister herb]

So far the evidence points to the universe being infinite and flat.

This is one of the biggest problem when we start to talk about kind of matters. The evidences which we have right now says this and then when scientists will find something else, they will say that.

Good for us, we have another evidence which never change: the Quran.

Edit: Unfortunately to your original question I haven´t answer, that´s just a comment to one of the posts.

[Serinity]

You make it sound so simple. Oh I wish it was as simple as you claim. Let's look at what I am risking by denying Allah.

I am risking not seeing my mother again.
I am risking going to hellfire fore eternity!

You honestly for a single second that someone would willingly risk having this happen to them if they believe in Allah lol? If I believed in Allah I was try to be the best Muslim in the world! I would be so worried about this punishment that I would not do a single thing to jeopardise my future in heaven. So again I reiterate myself, I am not choosing to go against god. It's out of my control.

I want to ask you one thing, please don't get offended by it.

You say that something cannot come from nothing and something cannot have always existed, but then you go on to accept that Allah has always existed? How can this be?

If Allah (which is a thing) can exist without creation, why can't the energy, which is also a thing? You consider Allah to be a person ^o) what if Allah IS the universe? This would then tie in with the universe having always existed, because Allah is the universe?

Just a though. Do Muslims think Allah is a person? Like a "man in the sky" or do they think he is some other object or what? Since energy is indestructible and cannot be created or destroyed, it would make sense that Alllah is energy. Which means Allah is the universe. Please explain in a kind manner :)

Allah is not the universe, nor is He SWT energy. Nor is Allah an item. He SWT is a conscious being, and this universe has been created, it had a beginning. It is expanding, one day Allah SWT will destroy it and rebuild it to suit the Akhira/herafter.

Everything that has been created, must have a creator. This whole universe had a beginning, cause by definition, any creation must have a beginning thus a cause.

Cause before the universe began, it didn't exist, there had to be someone to initiate the universe. As for Allah SWT, Allah has NO start, or beginning, He SWT is uncaused.

Nothing is like Allah SWT. Energy is created by Allah SWT. Just because it is indestructible by us, or can not be 'made' by us, doesn't mean Allah SWT can't.

It may be well that Allah SWT made a closed loop for energy, Allah transgresses time and space. Allah SWT is the lawgiver. Allah is not bound by the rules of this universe.

May Allah SWT guide you, keep reading the Quran, and always question yourself.

Read this thoroughly: https://islamqa.info/en/219688 and contemplate.

I am not knowledgable so I may not be able to answer all questions.

[Hi, I'm James.]

Allah is not the universe, nor is He SWT energy. Nor is Allah an item. He SWT is a conscious being, and this universe has been created, it had a beginning. It is expanding, one day Allah SWT will destroy it and rebuild it to suit the Akhira/herafter.

Everything that has been created, must have a creator. This whole universe had a beginning, cause by definition, any creation must have a beginning thus a cause.

Cause before the universe began, it didn't exist, there had to be someone to initiate the universe. As for Allah SWT, Allah has NO start, or beginning, He SWT is uncaused.

Nothing is like Allah SWT. Energy is created by Allah SWT. Just because it is indestructible by us, or can not be 'made' by us, doesn't mean Allah SWT can't.

It may be well that Allah SWT made a closed loop for energy, Allah transgresses time and space. Allah SWT is the lawgiver. Allah is not bound by the rules of this universe.

May Allah SWT guide you, keep reading the Quran, and always question yourself.

Read this thoroughly:and contemplate.

I am not knowledgable so I may not be able to answer all questions.

Thank you Serenity.

You say the universe came into existence but this is not proven yet. The big bang is not necessarily the absolutely beginning of energy. In the cyclic model, the universe has always existed, like infinity never ends, negative infinity never had a start. It has been happening forever. Strange concept I know, but also remember that Allah has always existed and will always exist, so it's not much different. The only difference is one is conscious, the other is not.

The universe is expanding and in the cyclic model once the universe gets so larger it can no longer support it's own structure, the universe will collapse back to a singularity, then all this energy has to go somewhere, because energy cannot be destroyed, it has no space left to move so it causes another big bang which recreates the universe. Again I know this must sound strange and totally stupid to you but for me it makes perfect sense, just like god sounds strange to me but to you it makes perfect sense.


I'll have a read through that link.

[Serinity]

Thank you Serenity.

You say the universe came into existence but this is not proven yet. The big bang is not necessarily the absolutely beginning of energy. In the cyclic model, the universe has always existed, like infinity never ends, negative infinity never had a start. It has been happening forever. Strange concept I know, but also remember that Allah has always existed and will always exist, so it's not much different. The only difference is one is conscious, the other is not.

The universe is expanding and in the cyclic model once the universe gets so larger it can no longer support it's own structure, the universe will collapse back to a singularity, then all this energy has to go somewhere, because energy cannot be destroyed, it has no space left to move so it causes another big bang which recreates the universe. Again I know this must sound strange and totally stupid to you but for me it makes perfect sense, just like god sounds strange to me but to you it makes perfect sense.


I'll have a read through that link.

Fact is the universe had a beginning. Allah is outside creation, outside the laws of everything. Allah is not subject to His laws.

We have the Quran which says that the Universe was created by Allah. Only Allah SWT is the Eternal, the Universe isn't.

I don't want to discuss tho anymore. Btw, you sound like someone I know, are you a pathological liar?

your story about your mom, your affirmations etc. makes me suspect that you are someone I know.

Be honest - are you Curious Kafir from UF?

The difference between you and us is that we believe in Allah, we may not understand/comphrehend His essence, etc. But we accept His existence.

Just because one's mind can't comphrehend something doesn't mean it is impossible.

[Hi, I'm James.]

Fact is the universe had a beginning. Allah is outside creation, outside the laws of everything. Allah is not subject to His laws.

We have the Quran which says that the Universe was created by Allah. Only Allah SWT is the Eternal, the Universe isn't.

I don't want to discuss tho anymore. Btw, you sound like someone I know, are you a pathological liar?

your story about your mom, your affirmations etc. makes me suspect that you are someone I know.

Be honest - are you Curious Kafir from UF?

The difference between you and us is that we believe in Allah, we may not understand/comphrehend His essence, etc. But we accept His existence.

Just because one's mind can't comphrehend something doesn't mean it is impossible.

What? I am not a liar... I am just going by what science thinks. I'm not making it up. Google cyclic model and you'll see.

What is UF? I doubt we know each other, unless you know me in real life?

[Serinity]

What? I am not a liar... I am just going by what science thinks. I'm not making it up. Google cyclic model and you'll see.

What is UF? I doubt we know each other, unless you know me in real life?

you just sound very familiar to someone I know. I've a urge to doubt you, but I won't. Not good manners lol.

Anyways, may Allah SWT guide you. Ameen.

It is just because you said - your mom is dead - you said:

"I am risking not seeing my mother again.
I am risking going to hellfire fore eternity!

You honestly for a single second that someone would willingly risk having this happen to them if they believe in Allah lol? If I believed in Allah I was try to be the best Muslim in the world! I would be so worried about this punishment that I would not do a single thing to jeopardise my future in heaven. "

Which sounds like someone I know. lol.

I've a strong feeling you'll convert to Islam. Although Allah SWT knows best.

The cyclical model sounds confusing and contradictory to reality.

[Hi, I'm James.]

you just sound very familiar to someone I know. I've a urge to doubt you, but I won't. Not good manners lol.

Anyways, may Allah SWT guide you. Ameen.

It is just because you said - your mom is dead - you said:

"I am risking not seeing my mother again.
I am risking going to hellfire fore eternity!

You honestly for a single second that someone would willingly risk having this happen to them if they believe in Allah lol? If I believed in Allah I was try to be the best Muslim in the world! I would be so worried about this punishment that I would not do a single thing to jeopardise my future in heaven. "

Which sounds like someone I know. lol.

I've a strong feeling you'll convert to Islam. Although Allah SWT knows best.

You're got me paranoid now lol. Do you think you know me in real life? Or you're saying I sound like someone you've spoken to online before?

Anyway I doubt I'll convert, I'm here to just learn a bit and chat about various things. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

[Serinity]

You're got me paranoid now lol. Do you think you know me in real life? Or you're saying I sound like someone you've spoken to online before?

Anyway I doubt I'll convert, I'm here to just learn a bit and chat about various things. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I think I heard that before......... you said before that you just want to know more about Islam or something and then you got a dream, and then you converted to Islam, you cried cuz you saw your mom and asked your mom "where is God?" your mom said "the answer is with the Quran" or something........ Then you made a thread and revealed yourself to be a pathological liar.

I wouldn't be surprised if you started over again.

The cyclical model sounds unconvincing and way too confusing...... like trying to clash 2 opposing attributes or something.

[Hi, I'm James.]

I think I heard that before......... you said before that you just want to know more about Islam or something and then you got a dream, and then you converted to Islam, you cried cuz you saw your mom and asked your mom "where is God?" your mom said "the answer is with the Quran" or something........ Then you made a thread and revealed yourself to be a pathological liar.

I wouldn't be surprised if you started over again.

The cyclical model sounds unconvincing and way too confusing...... like trying to clash 2 opposing attributes or something.

I think you're smoking something you should not be? Lol ok jokes a side. I don't know who this person if you think I am but I'm just a regular Joe asking some simple questions.

Again, thanks for explaining how you see things about god and the universe.

[Serinity]

I think you're smoking something you should not be? Lol ok jokes a side. I don't know who this person if you think I am but I'm just a regular Joe asking some simple questions.

Again, thanks for explaining how you see things about god and the universe.

Well, again, I wouldn't be surprised, cause the one I know revealed himself to be a pathological liar, and those liars hide quite well, they make themselves believe whatever they want so one can't know they lie..

Ok I will stop doubting you. lol.

[M.I.A.]

Nah, He SWT made it as such, that we'd know He SWT created it.

Btw, I don't think this universe is infinite.. I mean, take a database, where there is information, you'd normally, and understandibly ask "who put the information IN the database? Who coded the information?"

Similiarily I think with the creation, "Who initiated it? Who coded us?" etc.. to me it is logical that there is a Creator.

But to say the universe is infinite doesn't make sense. Cause any created being must have a beginning. Anything with a beginning must have an end.

I'd like to share an ayat:

“We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Quran) is the truth”

[Fussilat 41:53].

The universe can not create itself. I believe it is Allah SWT that created it, as it sounds more rational....... And makes more sense.

We say Allah SWT is The Eternal, with no beginning or end, who created this universe. Which has a beginning.

May Allah SWT grant you guidance. Ameen. Read the Quran, it will make you think. :)

The above answer is probably as good as it gets.. Nice Quranic quote.


How is the universe flat? ...the earths not flat 0_0

...probably.

I'm kidding :p but only just.

[Hi, I'm James.]

The above answer is probably as good as it gets.. Nice Quranic quote.


How is the universe flat? ...the earths not flat 0_0

...probably.

I'm kidding :p but only just.

It's not flat like a piece of paper... Because we live in a 3D world, but it's flat as in there is not curvature of space. So if you set off in 1 direction, you will never come back to where you started. Unlike Earth, you will eventually come back to where you started.

[MuslimInshallah]

I am just going by what science thinks.

Greetings James,


(sigh) Science doesn't "think". It is not a conscious entity. When you refer to it this way, it sounds as if this is your deity...

Furthermore, please look at the post and link I posted earlier about the curvature of space-time (you seem to think it is Euclidean). I also asked you to give a reliable reference for your initial assertions (in your original post).

Theoretical physics is indeed a fascinating and enjoyable area of thought... but I question whether you really understand that upon which you are basing your ideas and arguments. (mildly) And it seems to me, that without a good grounding in the ideas you want to discuss, it is doubtful whether we can have any kind of meaningful and fruitful discussion.


May God Bless you.

[Hi, I'm James.]

Greetings James,


(sigh) Science doesn't "think". It is not a conscious entity. When you refer to it this way, it sounds as if this is your deity...

Furthermore, please look at the post and link I posted earlier about the curvature of space-time (you seem to think it is Euclidean). I also asked you to give a reliable reference for your initial assertions (in your original post).

Theoretical physics is indeed a fascinating and enjoyable area of thought... but I question whether you really understand that upon which you are basing your ideas and arguments. (mildly) And it seems to me, that without a good grounding in the ideas you want to discuss, it is doubtful whether we can have any kind of meaningful and fruitful discussion.


May God Bless you.

Hi MuslimInshallah. I cannot post links at the moment because I am not a full member. You're right I do not have much knowledge in this area so I am just relaying what I have read from sources like NASA and other popular science sources. When I say "science thinks" I mean the scientific community. Scientists.

Scientists have been correct about so many things, why should we suddenly doubt their abilities when they start exploring the universe? I'm not saying they're 100% correct because of course sometimes they are wrong with certain things. They can only be as sure as the evidence they acquire. Ultimately the universe is there for us to explore and it has answers to questions we cannot even begin to even think about asking. It has answers to questions we don't even know what the questions are yet lol.

[Eliyeja]

I mean, I could see why the universe could be like paper, but it does have a beginning, and anything with a beginning must have an end..

For now, it may seem as if the universe is ever-expanding. Thus one may think it is infinite, but I don't think it is, cause in the Quran, afaik, Allah will roll up the heavens, or something like that. It will have an end.

But one thing is for sure, the universe is not infinite, it had a beginning.

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said anything wrong.
Allahu alam.

The soul has a beginning and yet it is is immortal. Which means that something which has a beginning, can have no ending. Like the universe.

[Ümit]

The soul has a beginning and yet it is is immortal. Which means that something which has a beginning, can have no ending. Like the universe.

You are right partially.

Heaven and hell are both for eternity, which means that whether we end up in Heaven or Hell, we will stay there for ever.
So yes, our souls are pretty much without end if you look at it that way....but ONLY because that is Allahs will.
That still doesn't mean our soul is immortal...it can be destroyed in seconds if Allah wants it.

So just because Allah wants our souls to be infinite, does not mean that it is "immortal"

The Universe, if it started from a singularity and it is expanding ever since, it means, it must have an end.

That is the logic scientific outcome of that statement.

in other words:
If we assume the whole Universe came from a single point in space after a big bang...this means that the particles are travelling away from that point ever since (expanding)...and that happened roughly 14 billion years ago. The speed those particles are travelling with is light speed MAX.

This means that the max edge of the universe from that point of singularity can be calculated: 300.000 km per second x 14 billion years...
which is a huge number of course but not infinite.