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nasir017
05-13-2016, 03:31 PM
Homosexuality and Islam ?
Is homosexuality is disallow in Islam?
Why?

Let' Know about Homosexuality in Islam...
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MorbidEntree
05-13-2016, 04:51 PM
I'll just say it frankly, I'm gay and in a relationship with another man. Does this go against the teachings of Islam, or is it accepted within the Islamic community for a person to be homosexual?
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Bhabha
05-13-2016, 04:54 PM
Lol being in a relationship in general outside of marriage is haram whether you are gay or straight. Doesn't matter. Secondly sodomy is a sin in Islam.
Reply

MorbidEntree
05-13-2016, 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by Bhabha
Lol being in a relationship in general outside of marriage is haram whether you are gay or straight. Doesn't matter. Secondly sodomy is a sin in Islam.
How does one get married according to Islam without being in a relationship beforehand?
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Bhabha
05-13-2016, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
How does one get married according to Islam without being in a relationship beforehand?
Lol being in a relationship, do you mean as in having sexual relations with the person?

You get to know the person in a halal way. Such as no holding hands, no kissing, no sex, no talking about inappropriate things and under supervision, such that your parents know. Then you get married...

You court each other, you don't "date"
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EgyptPrincess
05-13-2016, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
I'll just say it frankly, I'm gay and in a relationship with another man. Does this go against the teachings of Islam, or is it accepted within the Islamic community for a person to be homosexual?
It's not haram to be gay but it is haram to act on it. IE don't do anything sexual with a man and it's fine. It's been scientifically proven that you cannot choose your sexuality so Allah has created you this way as a test for you. Everyone has their tests and everyone's tests are different.

Obviously if you are not attracted to woman then your only option is to be single. Damn, that's one hell of a test :D good luck and may Allah guide you.
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MorbidEntree
05-13-2016, 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
It's not haram to be gay but it is haram to act on it. IE don't do anything sexual with a man and it's fine. It's been scientifically proven that you cannot choose your sexuality so Allah has created you this way as a test for you. Everyone has their tests and everyone's tests are different.

Obviously if you are not attracted to woman then your only option is to be single. Damn, that's one hell of a test :D good luck and may Allah guide you.
Couldn't I be married to a man but just abstain from sexual things?
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 05:20 PM
Allah SWT did not create you as a gay. That 'desire' is a sinful desire, and from the whispers of shaytaan.

Sodomy in Islam is a very great sin. you should realise that this sinful desire, that is a distortion of the natural state we were created in, should never be acted upon. Suppress your desire asap.

I don't agree that you were created gay. That is a grave accusation against Allah SWT.
Sodomy is to never be committed.

You were created male, therefore you are male. Your sexual orientation is contrary to the fitrah, Allah SWT created us in.

Those desires are satanic and should not be acted upon.

And no, you can't marry a male, it is not valid, and it is sinful.

you were not created gay, you were not born gay. May Allah SWT guide you away from sodomy and to Islam. Ameen.
Reply

piXie
05-13-2016, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
Couldn't I be married to a man but just abstain from sexual things?
Couldn't we just join an institute but abstain from attending any classes?
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Umm Abed
05-13-2016, 05:24 PM
You were not created as gay. It is other influences that messed up with your natural system.

In Islam you are supposed to suppress such a feeling if it ever arises.

May Allah guide you and show you the light of Islam, ameen.
Reply

Serinity
05-13-2016, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
It's not haram to be gay but it is haram to act on it. IE don't do anything sexual with a man and it's fine. It's been scientifically proven that you cannot choose your sexuality so Allah has created you this way as a test for you. Everyone has their tests and everyone's tests are different.

Obviously if you are not attracted to woman then your only option is to be single. Damn, that's one hell of a test :D good luck and may Allah guide you.
I disagree, Allah SWT did NOT create him this way. It is shaytaan that twisted his desires.

And being gay is haram, the 'desire' is a sinful desire.
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MorbidEntree
05-13-2016, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Allah SWT did not create you as a gay. That 'desire' is a sinful desire, and from the whispers of shaytaan.

Sodomy in Islam is a very great sin. you should realise that this sinful desire, that is a distortion of the natural state we were created in, should never be acted upon. Suppress your desire asap.

I don't agree that you were created gay. That is a grave accusation against Allah SWT.
Sodomy is to never be committed.

You were created male, therefore you are male. Your sexual orientation is contrary to the fitrah, Allah SWT created us in.

Those desires are satanic and should not be acted upon.

And no, you can't marry a male, it is not valid, and it is sinful.

you were not created gay, you were not born gay. May Allah SWT guide you away from sodomy and to Islam. Ameen.
Originally Posted by Umm Abed
You were not created as gay. It is other influences that messed up with your natural system.

In Islam you are supposed to suppress such a feeling if it ever arises.

May Allah guide you and show you the light of Islam, ameen.
What reason would Allah have to create me but not ensure that I am straight? And how is it an accusation against Allah to be gay? Also, what scripture says all of this?
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EgyptPrincess
05-13-2016, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I disagree, Allah SWT did NOT create him this way. It is shaytaan that twisted his desires.

And being gay is haram, the 'desire' is a sinful desire.
I couldn't disagree more. There are homosexuals from every corner of the land, from Japan to Australia to Africa to America to Saudi Arabia even. There are brothers who are raised in a family and one of them becomes gay and the other does not. You ask ANY gay person, Muslim, Christian, Jew or Atheist and they will tell you that they did not make a conscious effort to be gay, as in they did not choose to be gay.

Typically a gay person will realise he or she is gay at the same age others realise they like the opposite sex. I realised I liked boys when I was 8 or 9, did I decide on this? Nope, I just naturally liked boys.

I know you're not going to like what I'm about to say next but it is a fact and if you don't know it then youtube will show you plenty of videos... but animals are also sometimes gay. They have homosexual relations. My friend has two male dogs and they even try to have sex... I saw it with my own eyes, one climbs on top of the other and tries to hump him lol.

You should try and show me a specific verse from the Quran in which Allah tells us he did not create homosexuals. I see disabilities and homosexuality nothing more than tests from god.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homose...ior_in_animals

Read to your hearts content, all the sources are linked at the bottom of the wiki for you to verify for yourself.
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 05:43 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I couldn't disagree more. There are homosexuals from every corner of the land, from Japan to Australia to Africa to America to Saudi Arabia even. There are brothers who are raised in a family and one of them becomes gay and the other does not. You ask ANY gay person, Muslim, Christian, Jew or Atheist and they will tell you that they did not make a conscious effort to be gay, as in they did not choose to be gay.

Typically a gay person will realise he or she is gay at the same age others realise they like the opposite sex. I realised I liked boys when I was 8 or 9, did I decide on this? Nope, I just naturally liked boys.

I know you're not going to like what I'm about to say next but it is a fact and if you don't know it then youtube will show you plenty of videos... but animals are also sometimes gay. They have homosexual relations. My friend has two male dogs and they even try to have sex... I saw it with my own eyes, one climbs on top of the other and tries to hump him lol.

You should try and show me a specific verse from the Quran in which Allah tells us he did not create homosexuals. I see disabilities and homosexuality nothing more than tests from god.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homose...ior_in_animals

Read to your hearts content, all the sources are linked at the bottom of the wiki for you to verify for yourself.
Idc what you say, he was not created gay. It is shaytaan or himself that deviated from the fitra, knowingly or unknowingly.

you know now that it is shaytaan that twisted your feelings, will you know make up excuses, or realise your state?

It is not natural to be gay, nor does it occur naturally, i.e. as a part of the fitrah. It is a distortion / deviation from the Fitrah.
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Bhabha
05-13-2016, 05:46 PM
Maybe there is the confusion that if you love your friend, then you are gay. I love all of my girlfriends and I am not gay...
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
What reason would Allah have to create me but not ensure that I am straight? And how is it an accusation against Allah to be gay? Also, what scripture says all of this?
Firstly, Allah SWT didn't create you gay, to say so is to accuse Allah SWT of an immorality, and Allah SWT does not command immorallity.

Secondly, we are all responsible for searching the truth, and you should realise that this desire is inspired by the shaytaan.

Just like transgenders, etc. they themselves fall into this devilish trap. It is your test, now will you indulge in this filth or search for Allah SWT and repent?
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EgyptPrincess
05-13-2016, 05:47 PM
......Moderators, please feel free to remove this link if it violates any rules.
@Serinity Ignorance is bliss I guess.
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MorbidEntree
05-13-2016, 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I couldn't disagree more. There are homosexuals from every corner of the land, from Japan to Australia to Africa to America to Saudi Arabia even. There are brothers who are raised in a family and one of them becomes gay and the other does not. You ask ANY gay person, Muslim, Christian, Jew or Atheist and they will tell you that they did not make a conscious effort to be gay, as in they did not choose to be gay.

Typically a gay person will realise he or she is gay at the same age others realise they like the opposite sex. I realised I liked boys when I was 8 or 9, did I decide on this? Nope, I just naturally liked boys.

I know you're not going to like what I'm about to say next but it is a fact and if you don't know it then youtube will show you plenty of videos... but animals are also sometimes gay. They have homosexual relations. My friend has two male dogs and they even try to have sex... I saw it with my own eyes, one climbs on top of the other and tries to hump him lol.

You should try and show me a specific verse from the Quran in which Allah tells us he did not create homosexuals. I see disabilities and homosexuality nothing more than tests from god.

//Removed link as I don't have the privilege to post them yet.

Read to your hearts content, all the sources are linked at the bottom of the wiki for you to verify for yourself.
This. It would make no sense for me to choose to be gay when I see all the evil committed against other gay people. It's just a natural impulse that's developed unconsciously.

But, regarding your animal point, it is often a sign of authority and higher rank for an animal like a dog to have sex with another male dog. It's to assert dominance, just like how a lot of men get raped in prison, the rapist isn't gay, he's just asserting his dominance over the other man (or he is just desperate enough for sex that he will resort to forcing another man to do it with him).
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 05:50 PM
No it is not a natural impulse, it is a desire inspired by the shaytaan. To say otherwise would be an accusation that it is in our fitrah, a grave accusation against Allah SWT, it is not natural.
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EgyptPrincess
05-13-2016, 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
This. It would make no sense for me to choose to be gay when I see all the evil committed against other gay people. It's just a natural impulse that's developed unconsciously.

But, regarding your animal point, it is often a sign of authority and higher rank for an animal like a dog to have sex with another male dog. It's to assert dominance, just like how a lot of men get raped in prison, the rapist isn't gay, he's just asserting his dominance over the other man (or he is just desperate enough for sex that he will resort to forcing another man to do it with him).
No.. in prison men have sex with other men because their locked up with no female contact whatsoever and they cannot resist themselves. In the animal kingdom yes they do this for dominance also but that's not the point... I don't care why an animal does or doesn't have sex with the same gender... the fact that they are committing homosexuality is a crime against god. End of story.
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EgyptPrincess
05-13-2016, 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
No it is not a natural impulse, it is a desire inspired by the shaytaan. To say otherwise would be an accusation that it is in our fitrah, a grave accusation against Allah SWT, it is not natural.
Like I said, tell me where in the Quran it specifically mentions that no man or woman can be born gay.

Allah creates men and women with all kinds of disabilities, both mental and physical. Why can't homosexuality be one of those mental disabilities?

P.S So animals that have same sex intercourse are also inspired by shaytan? Don't be ridiculous.
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MorbidEntree
05-13-2016, 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
No.. in prison men have sex with other men because their locked up with no female contact whatsoever and they cannot resist themselves. In the animal kingdom yes they do this for dominance also but that's not the point... I don't care why an animal does or doesn't have sex with the same gender... the fact that they are committing homosexuality is a crime against god. End of story.
Yes, I now know that it goes against the teachings of Islam to do these things. And I was not trying to discredit your argument, I was simply trying to add more details to it since animals (from what I've read) don't tend to have sex with others of the same sex out of love like humans do.
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Umm Abed
05-13-2016, 05:56 PM
@EgyptionPrincess please remove the link.

Humans dont have to lower themselves to that of animals!

Please dont promote animalistic ideologies and lowliness.

Allah swt has given us intelligence so we must use that brain, not think from below!

And to answer it all--- Allah's Word is supreme so if He says human is not being born gay then so be it. The fault lies with human thinking.
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sister herb
05-13-2016, 05:56 PM
I agree with members whose warn about homosexuality but also I wish that members here would be more accurate when you say that being gay is a sin or that no one is born gay and show the evidences from the Quran or the hadiths or somewhere else. As I remember, also in the rules it´s said that if you say like "Islam says this and that", you also have to show the proof.

By this way we all can learn more about this subject.
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Bhabha
05-13-2016, 05:57 PM
If a human compares himself/herself to an animal. Note that animals cannot drive, animals cannot work, animals cannot represent themselves in court, animals cannot get married, animals cannot speak for themselves.
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czgibson
05-13-2016, 06:01 PM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
You ask ANY gay person, Muslim, Christian, Jew or Atheist and they will tell you that they did not make a conscious effort to be gay, as in they did not choose to be gay.
Absolutely right. The idea that people choose to be gay is a product of ignorance.

I know you're not going to like what I'm about to say next but it is a fact and if you don't know it then youtube will show you plenty of videos... but animals are also sometimes gay. They have homosexual relations.
Homosexual behaviour has been observed in hundreds of species. Homophobia has only been observed in one.

This is yet another area where traditional religious thinking shows itself to be dramatically out of step with both scientific research and modern society.

Peace
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 06:03 PM
Idc what you say, none was created gay. Anyone who says so, has accused Allah SWT of a great lie. Allah SWT didn't create a guy with such feelings, they deviated.

And Allah SWT knows best.
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EgyptPrincess
05-13-2016, 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by Bhabha
If a human compares himself/herself to an animal. Note that animals cannot drive, animals cannot work, animals cannot represent themselves in court, animals cannot get married, animals cannot speak for themselves.
An animal cannot sin either, as they have no ability to distinguish from right or wrong. I am not saying because animals do it we can do it... I am saying that animals possess homosexual tendencies and there would be absolutely no reason whatsoever for this, animals are not tested by Allah so why Allah makes them want to commit homosexuality?

So Allah swt also gives some humans this mental disability as a test to see if you will let your desires and urges go against the Quran and the word of Allah. Of course I am not one to talk about desires and urges given what I have done but my point still stands. Unless someone can prove from the Quran about this then I consider it nothing more than a test from Allah.

Allah swt knows best
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Bhabha
05-13-2016, 06:04 PM
Animal sexual relations are entirely different. They operate differently. Homosexual behaviour in animal occurs in species that are more geared towards "community" relationship so that all of the animals care for each other's young. It is an entirely different process. Moreover. If you want to compare yourself to an animal, don't ask for rights animals themselves don't have. Etc etc etc.
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MorbidEntree
05-13-2016, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by Umm Abed
Humans dont have to lower themselves to that of animals!

Please dont promote animalistic ideologies and lowliness.

Allah swt has given us intelligence so we must use that brain, not think from below!

And to answer it all--- Allah's Word is supreme so if He says human is not being born gay then so be it. The fault lies with human thinking.
Where in scripture does it say that Allah does not create someone that is gay from birth?

P.S. I think it is appropriate to state that my purpose in this thread is not to try and drive a divide here. I am just looking for logical answers that have solid evidence in scripture. If it states in scripture that Allah said that He does not create people to be born gay, then so be it, I'll accept that. But as far as I've seen, people here are making statements with nothing to back them. Just some simple citing of scripture will do.
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noraina
05-13-2016, 06:06 PM
Pre-marital relations outside the legal and social framework of marriage are prohibited in Islam just as they are in other religions. And since there is no legal framework in any religion for a homosexual relationship, the act itself has no place in Islam or in other religions.

I am not that knowledgeable, so I wouldn't know all that if being gay is to do with upbringing or genetics, or if Islam differentiates between the two or what is says about this. All I know is that the actual act is forbidden. People are forgiven for having brief thoughts or whatever, so long as they do not act upon them. Regardless of where these thoughts come from, as long as you do not act upon them, that is what matters.

I suppose you could read the story of the Prophet Lot (as) in the Qur'an, it discusses this issue. I'll try and find it.
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 06:09 PM
Gayness is against the Fitrah, the way Allah SWT created us. Allah SWT created us all on the fitrah.

Homosexuality is wrong, contrary to our natural state. Allah SWT is far above that. Shaytaan instilled sinful, wrongful desires.

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said wrong. Ameen.
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Bhabha
05-13-2016, 06:09 PM
Also don't confuse love for your brother or sister as a gay act. I remember doing volunteering with a foundation I can't remember what it was. Anyhow, they had pamphlets that said "how to know if you are gay" and I was curious so I opened it up and it literally said, if you love your friend of the same sex.. You are gay or you are a lesbian. I was like wtf? My mom was also wtf? Apparently because I love my friends who are girls, I am gay? Or I am a lesbian?

Apparently because I hang out with girls and prefer to have fun with girls, because I am also Muslim and I don't have friendships with guys. In the "western" lens, I am a lesbian.

This is what I mean that society "creates" homosexuals in this sense. In a western lens, a woman who has only relations with another woman (friendship, sisterhood) is apparently a lesbian :)
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Regrets1
05-13-2016, 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
I agree with members whose warn about homosexuality but also I wish that members here would be more accurate when you say that being gay is a sin or that no one is born gay and show the evidences from the Quran or the hadiths or somewhere else. As I remember, also in the rules it´s said that if you say like "Islam says this and that", you also have to show the proof.

By this way we all can learn more about this subject.
yes when one is asking about what Islam says you have to give evidence from Quran to make things clear rather than keep on saying Islam says it Quran says it or Hadith..we all know it's wrong but please help the one who's asking in a nice calm manner rather than just saying Islam says it I agree and so should u, if they want evidence then provide it make it easy for them..obviously they want answers they want to learn that's why they made effort to come here and ask.
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noraina
05-13-2016, 06:16 PM
It would be good if someone with more knowledge could answer the brother's very specific questions, it would be interesting for me as well, to see the Islamic stance on whether being gay arises from genetics or environment, nature vs nurture.
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EgyptPrincess
05-13-2016, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Gayness is against the Fitrah, the way Allah SWT created us. Allah SWT created us all on the fitrah.

Homosexuality is wrong, contrary to our natural state. Allah SWT is far above that. Shaytaan instilled sinful, wrongful desires.

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said wrong. Ameen.
You're just repeating yourself.

I can find no mention from searching online about this matter other than that it is haram to ACT on ANY unlawful desire or thought.

Is it a crime against Allah for me to WANT to kill someone? No. Is it a crime if I ACT on this? Yes.

Answer me this, do you consider mental illnesses to be a product of upbringing and shaytan also? If not, why?

How about physical illness like those people who cannot reproduce? Is this also a product of upbringing and shaytan?

People are born with defects (trials) from Allah swt and there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that homosexuality is not also a test. Please link evidence or I'll simply ignore your future posts if you just repeat the same thing with no evidence.
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 06:21 PM
https://islamqa.info/en/6285 - refutation to those who say people are created 'gay'.

May Allah SWT guide those who are confused, and may Allah SWT curse this filth. Ameen.
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Regrets1
05-13-2016, 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
You're just repeating yourself.

I can find no mention from searching online about this matter other than that it is haram to ACT on ANY unlawful desire or thought.

Is it a crime against Allah for me to WANT to kill someone? No. Is it a crime if I ACT on this? Yes.

Answer me this, do you consider mental illnesses to be a product of upbringing and shaytan also? If not, why?

How about physical illness like those people who cannot reproduce? Is this also a product of upbringing and shaytan?

People are born with defects (trials) from Allah swt and there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that homosexuality is not also a test. Please link evidence or I'll simply ignore your future posts if you just repeat the same thing with no evidence.
(No hate)This brother does repeat himself.

We all know it's wrong so some people just need to stop saying its wrong it's wrong! Bring evidence from Quran so the brother is satisfied with the answer (even if he isn't happy with the answer hel know that's what Allah says) and this topic wil end right now
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EgyptPrincess
05-13-2016, 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
https://islamqa.info/en/6285 - refutation to those who say people are created 'gay'.
"and your Lord treats no one with injustice” [al-Kahf 18:49]"

and

“Nay, Allaah never commands Fahshaa’ (evil deeds, unlawful sexual intercourse). Do you say of Allaah what you know not?” [al-A’raaf 7:28]

Not exactly evidence, it's merely saying that Allah never commands us to commit evil deeds... That's obvious, Allah never commands us to do anything we should not. He does however give us trials and struggles.

The rest of that message is just the sheikh's opinion, of which sheikhs disagree or certain things. Like the nose piercing thing.
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MuslimInshallah
05-13-2016, 06:32 PM
Assalaamu alaikum,

Perhaps the following may be of help:




Homosexuality


Question

Where in the Qur’ân and Sunnah does it tell us that homoseuality is unlawful?


Answered by

the Fatwa Department Research Committee - chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî


In the Qur’ân, Allah tells us that homosexuality is forbidden practice. Allah says: “The inhabitants of the city came in joy (at the news of the young men). Lot said: ‘These are my guests. Disgrace me not. But fear Allah and shame me not.’ They said: ‘Did we not forbid you from entertaining others?.’ He said: ‘These are my daughters, if you must act.’ Verily, by thy life (O Prophet), in their wild intoxication, they wander in distraction, to and fro. But the (mighty) blast overtook them at sunrise. And We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay. Behold! In this are signs for those who by tokens do understand” [Sûrah al-Hijr: 72-75]

Allah says: “We also (sent) Lot: he said to his people: “Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds” [Sûrah al-A`râf: 80-81]

Lot (peace be upon him) condemns them for the evil of their deed and describes it as transgression. Such descriptions are attributes of the deeds themselves. Therefore, it cannot be assumed to be a ruling only for Lot's people and not for later generations. The qualiity evil is attributed to the deed itself, and intrinsic qualities do not change with the coming of another Prophet.

Furthermore, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) made it clear that homosexuality is a sin.

Even if none of this evidence were available, the practice of homosexuality would still be forbidden, simply because Islam expressly forbids any sexual contact outside of marriage.

Allah says: “And those who guard their chastity except with their spouses and those whom their right hands possess, for then they are not blameworthy. But those who seek something beyond this are transgressors.”

This verse clearly delineates the limits of lawful sexual activity.

Allah, in the Qur’ân, also strictly defines whom we can marry. Allah states for the man all the women that he is prohibited to marry and then says that others are permissible, while continuing to refer to those with whom it is lawful by the feminine gender. Therefore, men are restricted to marrying women and women are restricted to marrying men. [Refer to Sûrah al-Nisâ’: 23-25]

It must also be clarified here that the sin is the practice of homosexuality, not a person's inner feelings or desires. A Muslim is rewarded for restraining his or her unlawful desires to please Allah.

And Allah knows best.


Source: http://en.islamtoday.net/node/1512
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MuslimInshallah
05-13-2016, 06:34 PM






Ruling on homosexual feelings


Question

I have a big problem. Sometimes I think that I am a gay, but at the same time I have feelings towards women too. I feel miserable. I know Islam is against homosexuality. Am I sinful to have these feeling towards men?


Answered by

Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî, former professor at al-Imâm University in Riyadh


A person is not sinful for homosexual tendencies in the heart. Allah does not call us to account for the feelings in our heart that we cannot always control. However, we are called to account for the deeds that we do.

A person who has homosexual tendencies must avoid acting upon them. That person should remain chaste and seek the reward from Allah for being abstinent and patient.

I advise you to do the following:

1. Do not proceed with those feelings. Instead, engage yorself with something else that is productive.

2. Do not look at men with desire.

3. Do not respond to any mental desire to do any action conforming to these feelings, by touching other men, coming closer to them, or the like.

4. Increase your portion of worship, particularly fasting, if you can do so.

May Allah guide you always.


Source: http://en.islamtoday.net/node/1516





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sister herb
05-13-2016, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
The rest of that message is just the sheikh's opinion, of which sheikhs disagree or certain things. Like the nose piercing thing.
I would say that it´s more as the interpretation than just an opinion but anyways, with a little search we could find some absolutely opposite interpretations from other sheikhs. Internet is a place which gives everything to everyone - and it´s not only a good thing.
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MuslimInshallah
05-13-2016, 06:36 PM






Possibility of homosexuality among animals


Question

I recall someone interpreting verses in the Qur'an (7:80-81) as indicating that animals cannot exhibit homosexual behavior. Is this a correct interpretation?


Answered by

Sheikh Yûsuf al-Badrî


The verses in question are:

“And (We sent) Lot when he said to his people: What! do you commit an indecency which any one in all the worlds has not done before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women. You are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.” [Sûrah al-A`râf: 80-81]

Perhaps, the commentator of this verse, wanting to show the seriousness of this sin, interpreted this verse to mean that even animals would not commit such a thing. This may have been his way of trying to convince his audience how reprehensible such an act is.

However, to use these verses as evidence that homosexual behavior is never exhibited by animals is stretching the meaning of these verses a bit too far.

We must keep in mind that Allah does not hold anyone legally accountable for their doings except human beings and the Jinn.

The word in the verse translated as “all the worlds” is the word (`âlamîn). This word is used in this context in reference to humanity and the Jinn (also referred to as al-thaqalayn). Animals are not understood from this word when used in this context.

And Allah knows best.


Source: http://en.islamtoday.net/quesshow-166-666.htm



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Regrets1
05-13-2016, 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah






Ruling on homosexual feelings


Question

I have a big problem. Sometimes I think that I am a gay, but at the same time I have feelings towards women too. I feel miserable. I know Islam is against homosexuality. Am I sinful to have these feeling towards men?


Answered by

Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî, former professor at al-Imâm University in Riyadh


A person is not sinful for homosexual tendencies in the heart. Allah does not call us to account for the feelings in our heart that we cannot always control. However, we are called to account for the deeds that we do.

A person who has homosexual tendencies must avoid acting upon them. That person should remain chaste and seek the reward from Allah for being abstinent and patient.

I advise you to do the following:

1. Do not proceed with those feelings. Instead, engage yorself with something else that is productive.

2. Do not look at men with desire.

3. Do not respond to any mental desire to do any action conforming to these feelings, by touching other men, coming closer to them, or the like.

4. Increase your portion of worship, particularly fasting, if you can do so.

May Allah guide you always.


Source: http://en.islamtoday.net/node/1516




SubhanAllah. I was looking forward to seeing evidence, Everything is clear hope it helped the brother.
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 06:40 PM
A warning: don't support sodomy, you'll be drawn and get the sin, too.

However, having gay feeling is contrary to the fitrah, in violation with fitrah. It goes against logic, and basic intelligence.
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MorbidEntree
05-13-2016, 07:31 PM
Thank you, MuslimInshallah, for providing many answers to my questions. It's now clear with evidence to me that, in Islam, it is generally okay to be gay as long as one does not act on the feelings from that.
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bound
05-13-2016, 07:41 PM
wa'salaam,

Where do we find this in Al Quran? Thanks.
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sister herb
05-13-2016, 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by bound
wa'salaam,

Where do we find this in Al Quran? Thanks.
Read again post number 39.
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Misbah0411
05-13-2016, 08:00 PM
People are not born gay. It would be divine injustice to create someone that way and then punish him for it on the Day of Judgement. For those Muslims who are saying this, they became convinced of what the disbelievers say about it so it would be accepted as normal but it isn't and will never be. People need to be careful and make sure what they talk about is in the boundaries of Islam and not their secular environment.
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
People are not born gay. It would be divine injustice to create someone that way and then punish him for it on the Day of Judgement. For those Muslims who are saying this, they became convinced of what the disbelievers say about it so it would be accepted as normal but it isn't and will never be. People need to be careful and make sure what they talk about is in the boundaries of Islam and not their secular environment.
Finally someone who spoke some sense.

It isn't with the fitrah to be gay, and since Allah SWT created us ALL under the fitrah, none was born gay.

Islam calls to the pure fitrah. And it condemns sodomy heavily, therefore sodomy could never be with the fitrah, and as such none was born with it(homosexuality).

It is a disease. Take into consideration this:

Allah SWT created EVERYONE with the fitrah.
Islam calls to that pure fitrah.
Islam condemns sodomy,
Therefore sodomy could never be part of the fitrah
and therefore none could be born with it.

And not to mention, sodomy is very filthy, and it goes against all logic and common sense. It is faaaaar from the fitrah.
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Freedom
05-13-2016, 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Like I said, tell me where in the Quran it specifically mentions that no man or woman can be born gay.

Allah creates men and women with all kinds of disabilities, both mental and physical. Why can't homosexuality be one of those mental disabilities?

P.S So animals that have same sex intercourse are also inspired by shaytan? Don't be ridiculous.
Homosexuality is not a mental disability, at least not according to Islam. If it was, then there would be no punishment for gay sex.
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sister herb
05-13-2016, 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by Misbah0411
People are not born gay. It would be divine injustice to create someone that way and then punish him for it on the Day of Judgement. For those Muslims who are saying this, they became convinced of what the disbelievers say about it so it would be accepted as normal but it isn't and will never be. People need to be careful and make sure what they talk about is in the boundaries of Islam and not their secular environment.
I agree that this is logical way to think.

I don´t know do people born as gay or not but here is now this problem: are people punished at the Judgement Day because they are some kind of (like gays) or because they have had homosexual feelings or only because they have had homosexual acts? If you have proof and information for this, please share it with us.

I don´t try to be "normal" in the eyes of non-Muslims, I am just interesting to know what Islam really says as being gay (without doing any gay-like acts during the life). Can you show clear evidences that people are really punished because they only have had homosexual feelings but not acts? I again underline that people should tell where they have got their information - just same if they claim that people born as gay or not.
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 08:29 PM
It isn't with the fitrah to be gay, therefore none was born with it. Period.
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Bhabha
05-13-2016, 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
I agree that this is logical way to think.

I don´t know do people born as gay or not but here is now this problem: are people punished at the Judgement Day because they are some kind of (like gays) or because they have had homosexual feelings or only because they have had homosexual acts? If you have proof and information for this, please share it with us.

I don´t try to be "normal" in the eyes of non-Muslims, I am just interesting to know what Islam really says as being gay (without doing any gay-like acts during the life). Can you show clear evidences that people are really punished because they only have had homosexual feelings but not acts? I again underline that people should tell where they have got their information - just same if they claim that people born as gay or not.
Your intentions do not count, unless you act on these intentions.

Narrated Al-Ahnaf bin Qais:

While I was going to help this man ('Ali Ibn Abi Talib), Abu Bakra met me and asked, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I am going to help that person." He said, "Go back for I have heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'When two Muslims fight (meet) each other with their swords, both the murderer as well as the murdered will go to the Hell-fire.' I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! It is all right for the murderer but what about the murdered one?' Allah's Apostle replied, "He surely had the intention to kill his companion."
Bukhari, 2,30

The intention is there, but if you do not act on it then nothing will happen. Sometimes we cannot control the way our mind works, our intentions, but that's why we are different than animals, we have the ability, the rationality to decide whether or not we act on things and when we know of the consequences.
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Bhabha
05-13-2016, 08:38 PM
This is different of course with good intentions, such as you perhaps wanted to help someone and then you were not able to because something else happened. You had the intention to help, but there were other circumstances that prevented this.
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 08:49 PM
What an accusation to say someone is born gay.. you are saying that Allah SWT created him gay, which He SWT did not, and not only that, you are saying that ALLAH SWT made SOMEONE gay, to WHICH Allah SWT HIMSELF condemns and says is EVIL. And

So you are saying Allah SWT put an evil thing from the start? What an evil thing to say!
So are you saying that Allah SWT created someone gay, while Allah SWT Himself made it impermissible?

As a brother said, it'd be divine injustice from Allah SWT to create someone gay. And Allah SWT is all-just. Never is Allah SWT unjust.
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sister herb
05-13-2016, 08:57 PM
There is no need to get angry. Apparently, this thing can be understood in two different ways.
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Regrets1
05-13-2016, 09:14 PM
This topic ended when MuslimInshAllah provided the information and the brother was happy with it..he even said he understands that as long as one doesn't act upon their "gay" feelings they won't be punished for having those thoughts or feelings..if the brother wanted to ask anything else he would've but he didn't so don't know why some people are getting angry and dragging this to next level.
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 10:09 PM
MorbidEntree ain't our brother yet. Allahu alam whether he will be.

Anyways, sodomy is a deviation from the fitrah.
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'Abd-al Latif
05-13-2016, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
It's not haram to be gay but it is haram to act on it.
Are you kidding me? So you're saying it's okay to drink as long as you don't get drunk?

Being gay and acting upon it are the same!
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Regrets1
05-13-2016, 10:21 PM
How I wish there was a dislike button! People should think b4 making harsh comments. Not everyones a born Muslim and not all born Muslims are pious..we must learn to accept people (not saying accept being gay and acting upon it is fine Astagferullah) but I'm sure being harsh and repeating yourself won't bring people closer to Islam..talk nicely explain things and tell them not to act upon gay feelings it's wrong and we don't wanna see you in hell but heaven with rest of the Muslims. In sha Allah.
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'Abd-al Latif
05-13-2016, 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Like I said, tell me where in the Quran it specifically mentions that no man or woman can be born gay.

Allah creates men and women with all kinds of disabilities, both mental and physical. Why can't homosexuality be one of those mental disabilities?

P.S So animals that have same sex intercourse are also inspired by shaytan? Don't be ridiculous.
You're kidding me right? Allah created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.


Allah says "Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)’" (7:80-81)

I'm not an expert on animal homosexuality and quite frankly I don't think you are either. Animals will have sex with their own offspring as they don't have a moral compass like human beings. Are you going to tell me it's okay to be incestuous?
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 10:24 PM
We can't sugarcoat the deen ya know?

Anyways, one should definitely suppress those feelings as they are from shaytaan. We ain't sugarcoating our deen for anyone.

They should know from the start that Islam came to purify mankind, and sodomy is a corruption of the fitrah.
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Regrets1
05-13-2016, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Are you kidding me? So you're saying it's okay to drink as long as you don't get drunk?

Being gay and acting upon it are the same!
You could take it as "if" they aren't acting upon it then they aren't gay right?
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 10:31 PM
Sodomy is full deviation. And there should be full stop. Why do you practice your lust on men when Allah SWT created women?

There is no ifs or buts.
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'Abd-al Latif
05-13-2016, 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
You could take it as "if" they aren't acting upon it then they aren't gay right?
If a person declares themself as being gay do they need to have sex with their own kind to prove it?
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 10:42 PM
Tbh, this is common sense, homosexuality is a disease. It goes against the natural state we've all been created in.

It is one of the perversions of mankind.
What more needs there to be discussed?
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Regrets1
05-13-2016, 10:46 PM
Nothing needs to be discussed not as long as the brother who created it wants to go ahead with it.
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drac16
05-13-2016, 10:48 PM
You would have to renounce that same-sex relationship if you were to become a muslim. It's simply not consistent with what the Qur'an says about living a life of purity. All throughout the Qur'an a story is told about the people of Lut [peace be upon him]. They practiced homosexuality and God destroyed them for it.

What happens after a genuine conversion [to Islam] is a fundamental change. You'll see Allah/God as being more beautiful than sin. You'll want Him more than you want homosexuality. We're spiritual beings at heart; we were made to worship Allah in all areas of life. That includes, but is not limited, to sexual purity. You and I were made to aspire to something greater than carnal lusts. A homosexual is not hopeless-- it's just the opposite. A person can find refuge at a moment's notice; that's one of the reasons the last two chapters of the Qur'an are prayers (to teach us to ask Allah to save us from the snares of this life).

I hope you will think about it and not write me off as a homophobe who hates homosexuals. In the rememberance of Allah do hearts find peace, the Qur'an says. What Allah offers is more precious. Selfless devotion to Allah is more sweet and precious than all the homosexuality in the world.
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Serinity
05-13-2016, 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
Nothing needs to be discussed not as long as the brother who created it wants to go ahead with it.
he is not a brother.
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Regrets1
05-13-2016, 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by drac16
You would have to renounce that same-sex relationship if you were to become a muslim. It's simply not consistent with what the Qur'an says about living a life of purity. All throughout the Qur'an a story is told about the people of Lut [peace be upon him]. They practiced homosexuality and God destroyed them for it.

What happens after a genuine conversion [to Islam] is a fundamental change. You'll see Allah/God as being more beautiful than sin. You'll want Him more than you want homosexuality. We're spiritual beings at heart; we were made to worship Allah in all areas of life. That includes, but is not limited, to sexual purity. You and I were made to aspire to something greater than carnal lusts. A homosexual is not hopeless-- it's just the opposite. A person can find refuge at a moment's notice; that's one of the reasons the last two chapters of the Qur'an are prayers (to teach us to ask Allah to save us from the snares of this life).

I hope you will think about it and not write me off as a homophobe who hates homosexuals. In the rememberance of Allah do hearts find peace, the Qur'an says. What Allah offers is more precious. Selfless devotion to Allah is more sweet and precious than all the homosexuality in the world.
Agreed. One can't be gay and Muslim at the same time. No Muslim here have said its ok to be homo and act upon it, sometimes we say something but others understand it in a different manner..you explained everything very calmly and I do agree with what you said.
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MorbidEntree
05-13-2016, 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Are you kidding me? So you're saying it's okay to drink as long as you don't get drunk?

Being gay and acting upon it are the same!
That analogy doesn't work. A better one is that you might look at a woman while married, but that's alright as long as you don't go after her and be adulterous to your wife.
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MorbidEntree
05-14-2016, 12:18 AM
As I found out with my thread that I posted today, it is okay to be gay, but you may not do gay things like having sex with another man.
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keiv
05-14-2016, 12:35 AM
This whole "gay" / "transgender" / "discover yourself" movement is getting ridiculous. It's almost like a fad where people WANT to be part of it for the sake of jumping on the bandwagon and the fact that it's heavily commercialized is only making it worse.. And now we have the issue with both genders wanting to share the same bathrooms. On top of that, you're not allowed to have an opinion against it *sigh* ya Allah



Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
I'll just say it frankly, I'm gay and in a relationship with another man. Does this go against the teachings of Islam, or is it accepted within the Islamic community for a person to be homosexual?
Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
Yes, I now know that it goes against the teachings of Islam to do these things.
Troll much? Anyways, the story of Lut.


/thread
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Serinity
05-14-2016, 05:04 AM
Homosexuality is not something you're born with. Anyone who says so, are lying.

I can't believe how people are saying that people are "born gay". Pathetic excuse. They are lying, clearly. It is mankind that has deviated and gone from the natural to the unnatural, namely sodomy.
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sister herb
05-14-2016, 06:30 AM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Tbh, this is common sense, homosexuality is a disease.
How it can to be a disease? How then Allah will punish person who is have a disease? Now that´s not logical.
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Serinity
05-14-2016, 06:34 AM
Originally Posted by sister herb
How it can to be a disease? How then Allah will punish person who is have a disease? Now that´s not logical.
It is a spiritual disease. It is distortion of the fitrah. You aren't going to seriously say this is normal? far from it.

It is a disease, and if someone does not desist, the torment may come upon them.

it is just excuses. Those who go astray are worthy of punishment.

Sodomy is punishable by death. It is not natural, and never was, and never will be.
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sister herb
05-14-2016, 06:37 AM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif

Allah says "Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)’" (7:80-81)
Now this interest me: "practise your lusts". I am talking here about being a gay, not acting as gay. (Well, OP might act also but I am talking this matter as in the general level, not about his case.)

Are the feelings and lusts on the same line with the acts? If I have an idea that I want to kill someone but I don´t never do it, am I still a murderer? Can we generalize this same principle to all sins? If yes, then we all really are sinners as almost everyone have had some sins in their mind even at once during the lifetime.
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Serinity
05-14-2016, 06:38 AM
The feelings are NOT normal, and they are wrong sinful desires.

One shouldn't normalise stuff that is not normal. Of course, if one has those sinful desires, one should realise that this is not normal, and restrain themselves. As long as they do that I can't see why Allah SWT would punish them.

But if they accept these desires as normal, they are worse than animals.
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sister herb
05-14-2016, 06:41 AM
Originally Posted by Serinity
It is a spiritual disease. It is distortion of the fitrah. You aren't going to seriously say this is normal? far from it.

It is a disease, and if someone does not desist, the torment may come upon them.

it is just excuses. Those who go astray are worthy of punishment.

Sodomy is punishable by death. It is not natural, and never was, and never will be.
No I am not say that disease is normal. If you have a disease, you are sick and you need a medicine or a treatment to become normal and health again. I am just thinking why there is a punishment if someone has a disease. But obiviously you meant something else by the word "disease" than I was thinking.
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Serinity
05-14-2016, 06:43 AM
Originally Posted by sister herb
No I am not say that disease is normal. If you have a disease, you are sick and you need a medicine or a treatment to become normal and health again. I am just thinking why there is a punishment if someone has a disease. But obiviously you meant something else by the word "disease" than I was thinking.
Being homosexual is going against the fitrah we were created in. It is one of the most wicked sins.

If someone who loves to rape women and children, would you say it is natural? no. sodomy is like that, or/and worse. I feel. It transgresses all logical bounds, it is based on deviant desires.

Allahu alam.
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sister herb
05-14-2016, 06:58 AM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Being homosexual is going against the fitrah we were created in. It is one of the most wicked sins.

If someone who loves to rape women and children, would you say it is natural? no. sodomy is like that, or/and worse. I feel. It transgresses all logical bounds, it is based on deviant desires.

Allahu alam.
I don´t say that raping people is normal like murdering people isn´t normal too. If person is sick - if he has disease, we need to find some medicine to him, not only repeat it´s a sin and he will get punishment. That would help those "sick sinners" to become normal again. Or do you think it´s even possible to cure kind of sicknesses at all? If yes and those people will repent, I am wondering how difficult it might be to us others to accept them as our brothers (and sisters). This discussion reminded to me one other thread where one member told about his feelings about some worker in his mosque who had got punishment about harassing your girls and that later (after he was reliesed from the jail) imam had accepted him back to mosque.
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Serinity
05-14-2016, 07:03 AM
There is a cure for everything, except death. So yes, there is a cure for homosexuality. Not saying there isn't.

Perhaps he needs to search for Allah SWT, and suppress those desires. Allah SWT is the only one who can cure him from this disease. I don't think it is a medicine of hormones, etc. but of the heart.

What I disagree with is justifying his state, cause by Allah SWT, it is not normal.

If Allah SWT wills he will be able to see the wrongfulness in sodomy, and why it is regarded as such a great sin.

May Allah SWT guide us all, and him. Ameen.
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anatolian
05-14-2016, 10:11 AM
Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
I'll just say it frankly, I'm gay and in a relationship with another man. Does this go against the teachings of Islam, or is it accepted within the Islamic community for a person to be homosexual?
Peace. Homosexuality is one of the great sins in Islam. So it is definitely not welcomed in Islam. But, atheism is worse than it. I encourage you accept Islam first than look at this issue latter. There is no salvation out of Islam but there is still salvation for a muslim who is gay...


Homosexuals think that it is developed spontaneously or naturally but I think it is developed because of wrong behaviors they faced some point in their life, mostly during their chilhood. Considering that, I view it a psycological disorder.

There is even a wisdom with genital organs of the opposite genders. One is definetly created for another. This too proves the creation of a Creator.
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Serinity
05-14-2016, 10:49 AM
Even biologically speaking it makes no sense.

1. A man + a man = disease = no offspring = no children = no procreation = extinct = unnatural
2. a man + a woman = offspring = children = procreation = Growth. = natural.

sodomy came from the perversion of man, not something Allah SWT put in people from birth. What a heinous lie.

There was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. The example of Adam and Eve, and our sexual organs should be enough proof for the people who give insight, that sodomy is unnatural, and not something we were born with.
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drac16
05-15-2016, 03:30 AM
It's definitely prohibited. The story of Lut [peace be upon him] and his people is found many times in the Qur'an. What you'll find is that when homosexuality is mentioned, it is always negative. Surah 7:80-84 says that they [the Sodomites] were destroyed for practicing homosexuality. What some people will do is try to twist certain verses by saying "The Qur'an is only against excessive homosexuality-- not loving, committed gay relationships".

That's incorrect, though. Not a single verse in the Qur'an speaks positively about homosexuality. There's no way around that.
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Serinity
05-15-2016, 06:32 AM
It isn't ok to be gay. One has to suppress those desires. It is against the fitrah, and a perversion of man.

Afaik, one can still be Muslim, but one has to suppress those desires, and acknowledge that these desires are corrupt.

And Allah SWT knows best.
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MuhammadIbrahim
05-15-2016, 07:04 AM
Definitely, Homosexuality is prohibited in Islam. It is against the nature of humans.
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'Abd-al Latif
05-15-2016, 08:48 AM
Originally Posted by sister herb
Now this interest me: "practise your lusts". I am talking here about being a gay, not acting as gay. (Well, OP might act also but I am talking this matter as in the general level, not about his case.)

Are the feelings and lusts on the same line with the acts? If I have an idea that I want to kill someone but I don´t never do it, am I still a murderer? Can we generalize this same principle to all sins? If yes, then we all really are sinners as almost everyone have had some sins in their mind even at once during the lifetime.
Do you think Islam allows you to desire to be gay as long as you don't practice it? Does Islam allow you want and desire the same gender as long as no one sees you committing the act? According to your understanding, does this mean one is allowed to fantasize homosexual thoughts as much as one likes as long as one isn't doing the act? If a man or woman claim to be homosexual are you going to ask them to prove it to you by committing the act, or do you intend to snoop on them in private? How much evidence do you need from someone when one has admitted to being gay?

The principle in Islam is that the way to come to a conclusion on a certain matter is to look at what the Sharia says as a whole and not just one snippet verse. Another principle in Islam is that anything that leads to something sinful is also sinful so homosexual thoughts, desires and feelings are sinful unless you make a conscious effort to shun them.

The OP asked a question "is it accepted within the Islamic community for a person to be homosexual?" The answer is no.

However, does this mean as soon as we see a homosexual we'll chase him or her with torches and pitchforks and burn them at the stake? In short the answer is also no.
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Serinity
05-15-2016, 08:54 AM
Shaytaan promised Allah SWT that he will cause them to change the creation of Allah SWT.

Which, in my understanding, means the fitrah too. Anything which is changed improperly.

So actually you are obeying shaytaan and being defiant by being gay. Anyone who says Allah SWT created them like that, is lying and speaking against the Quran.

But most of mankind deviate themselves with their lusts, and in their deviation they become blind. So instead of acknowledging that they've strayed from their morale state, and fitrah, they justify and say "that is how I have been created"

I.e. they are basically accusing Allah SWT of immoral stuff.

Allahu alam.
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sister herb
05-15-2016, 09:16 AM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
How much evidence do you need from someone when one has admitted to being gay?
Salam alaykum

Thanks for answering but as I wrote, I was discussed about this matter in general level - not the case of the OP. Yes, he admitted openly his situation. May Allah helps him to recover his non-Islamic desires.
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abumuslim82
05-15-2016, 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
This. It would make no sense for me to choose to be gay when I see all the evil committed against other gay people. It's just a natural impulse that's developed unconsciously.

But, regarding your animal point, it is often a sign of authority and higher rank for an animal like a dog to have sex with another male dog. It's to assert dominance, just like how a lot of men get raped in prison, the rapist isn't gay, he's just asserting his dominance over the other man (or he is just desperate enough for sex that he will resort to forcing another man to do it with him).
I hope u are sincere, otherwise.......... U gona be in a problem
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Serinity
05-15-2016, 12:00 PM
They have deviated from the morale and fitrah state they were born in. They take their feelings for natural, while it is not. They take their feelings as a guide.

No matter what excuses they put forth, what is unnatural will always stay unnatural.
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Search
05-15-2016, 12:17 PM
:bism:(In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful)

@MorbidEntree

Welcome!

I'd written the words here below elsewhere and with some modification I'm posting here for you because I think God-willing it will benefit.

Logic and freedom are indeed high values; that said, I think we need to think deeply to understand the nature of these values and also how they play out or function in reality. One of the best movies that I think feeds into the understanding of the limitation of logic is The Next Three Days in which the character John Brennan has all the evidence to know that his wife is a murderer but believes that she is not. And of course, we know at the end that he was correct in believing in her innocence even when his own logic and physical evidence would dictate that she was a murderer. Logic without intuition or internal compass is nothing.

Freedom as a word has been and always is thrown around a lot, but to be honest, I don't think most people have delved deeply into what freedom means because if they did I am confident they would recognize we're not really free. If a person was truly free, he would not be weighted by gravity, but the law of gravity doesn't change because the person would want to be free. If a person was truly free, legal jurisprudence of the country would not dictate that person should either be fined or an arrest occur should that person regularly fail to stop at a red traffic light. If a person was truly free, the person would not feel hostage to negative emotions and simple be. If a person was truly free, the person would not ever taste death. So, to be honest, from my basic understanding, human beings are not free. Freedom, I have found, after my former atheism/agnosticism, is in finally acknowledging that I am not free. Rousseau said, "Man was born free but everywhere he is in chains." This, I have found, is basic truth, and I even accept that we have laws because we need to legitimize certain restraints in society in order to function without chaos or anarchy.

Next, we go to the question of homosexuality. Homosexuality is the act of sex between two consenting adults, true. However, you are looking at purely from a worldly and legal perspective. And I can understand that because the physical world is the tangible, the one which we live. However, Islam and other major world religions believe in two worlds, the Seen and Unseen. The worldly perspective therefore feels short of encompassing the spiritual realities of our existence. Spiritually, the acts specific to homosexuality, within the realm of Islam, are seen as increasing black dots on a person's heart, increasing a person's spiritual void and blindness. Therefore, even though from a purely worldly perspective, the act is seen as simply a sex act between two consenting adults; in spiritual perspective, the act is seen as spiritually increasing darkness in two individuals' lives and if more people engage in the acts, then that is a causal link increasing spiritual darkness on earth. Therefore, Islam disapproves of sexual acts within both homosexuality and lesbianism.

That said, if a person identified himself/herself as having same-sex sexual attraction but does/did not act on that attraction, there is limitless divine pleasure that can be attained. My sheikh (Islamic teacher) had said that leaving one forbidden act is dearer to Allah (God) than to do 500 praiseworthy acts, because depriving ourselves in any manner is difficult and therefore this comes under the realm of jihad (struggle) against the self. And what this person receives is everlasting pleasure in Paradise. The truth is this world is temporal, and this is the belief of major world religions. Therefore, while deprivation in the world is considered an act of restriction on freedom, in the spiritual perspective, this restriction is actually freedom from being debased and held hostage to a desire. Freedom is in Paradise, wherein we're told there is no gravity, no law, no negative emotion, no death.

That said, I will say welcome to the board. I cannot pretend to understand your struggles as a man that identifies as having same-sex feelings. However, I will say that you are a human being, and I respect you as you are a creation of God.
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Misbah0411
05-15-2016, 12:38 PM
Look, the OP said he is a homosexual and has a partner so we can assume from this he does acts of homosexuality. If he only thinks of it without acting on it then this is different but could lead to sinful action. Ibn Qayyim said: “Ward off passing thoughts, for if you do not, they will become ideas. Ward off ideas, for if you do not, they will become desires. Fight them, for if you do not, they will become resolve and determination, and if you do not ward them off, they will become actions. If you do not resist them with their opposite, they will become habits and it will be difficult for you to get rid of them.” (Al-Fawaa’id by Ibn al-Qayyim, p. 33). Here is a good explanation:

https://islamqa.info/en/7491
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Gr8fulDeadlift
05-15-2016, 12:53 PM
Salam Alaykum all my brothers and sisters in Islam gay or straight.
I am 40 years old. Not one single day of these forty years did I ever stop and consciously make the decision that I would be straight. I just am and I just always have been. So where would I get off to think another could make that decision as if its as easy as deciding cream or sugar in your coffee. Come on now!
However this is an Islamic(faith based) site. ANd none of the Abrahamic faiths say same sex acts are ok. That being said, it does not make you a non Muslim. Nor does it make it ok for us, your brothers and sisters in Islam to judge you. You have the right as our brother in Islam to be supported and loved by us. And leave any and all judgement to our Creator who is infinitely more qualified that us.
Wassalam
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Regrets1
05-15-2016, 02:42 PM
I don't think people are born gay tbh..Allah won't make you gay and then punish you for it aswell..men are for women and women for men..if someone had desires for same gender at early age then I'm not really sure why they had those feelings..but sadly sometimes people are sexually assaulted by the same gender at young age and they hate it they don't even know what is happening and why..I knew someone whos uncle raped him not once but many times..time came when he got used to everything he started enjoying it, he would himself go to his uncle and perform the act which made him think he's gay so after few years he started having relationships with other men..And if that's not happened to people then it might the case of watching porn or they think they can't find a woman so they go to a man instead and complete their needs?? Or they think men can understand each other better than a woman would understand them?(Not hate but no one is born gay it's a choice one makes, I guess many are confused. It can be shaitan playing you or your own mind and your desires for men) many people say people are born gay, now there are gay rights gay marriages taking place etc I get scared for the young generation who are being taught in school that it's ok to be gay. So Yes it does go against the teachings of Islam doesn't matter what people say there are many Muslims who are supporting gays which in itself is a haram act as they are encouraging people to do haram.
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hisnameiszzz
05-15-2016, 03:17 PM
Can I jump in and ask a question. Someone I went to school with, a Muslim, came out as gay and had a same sex partner.

His parents forced him to marry which he did but he still sleeps with men. Is that right? Is that how someone following Islam should deal with a child that is gay? Force them into marriage? Surely that's wrong because the lady may not get what she wants.

Ps. I know about what he gets up to because I asked him. I know it was nosey of me but I didn't understand how he went from being gay to happily married to a lady. He said his wife doesn't know so it doesn't bother her.
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Umm Abed
05-15-2016, 04:45 PM
Many people are so exposed to negative influences and bad company so they adopt the wrong feelings and tend to incline towards it until it becomes so ingrained in them.

The parents were wrong in getting him married its very unfair on his wife. He should have stayed single if he lives a life like this.
@hisnameizzz
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Kiro
05-15-2016, 05:09 PM
I don't think people are born gay but I think Allah tests everyone differently.

At this moment of time, I don't think people are born heterosexual either.
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hisnameiszzz
05-15-2016, 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by Umm Abed
Many people are so exposed to negative influences and bad company so they adopt the wrong feelings and tend to incline towards it until it becomes so ingrained in them.

The parents were wrong in getting him married its very unfair on his wife. He should have stayed single if he lives a life like this.
@hisnameizzz
I agree, but that's what parents do to save face these days.

I feel sorry for him for having to lead a fake life and a real life and for his wife for being misled and finally to his little boy. But I can't change any of that. It's sad though.
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Serinity
05-15-2016, 11:40 PM
Those who support sodomites in their deviated state, support shaytaan. Do not sugarcoat, sodomy is an evil-doing.

Those who support the kuffar in their deviation and corrupt morals, support shaytaan.

They may find it hard to leave this filth, yes, but it is worth it. Just like you don't support a suicidal person thinking "i really feel like dying.." etc.

And Allah SWT knows best.
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MorbidEntree
05-16-2016, 04:01 AM
Originally Posted by abumuslim82
I hope u are sincere, otherwise.......... U gona be in a problem
What do you mean?

Originally Posted by Misbah0411
Look, the OP said he is a homosexual and has a partner so we can assume from this he does acts of homosexuality. If he only thinks of it without acting on it then this is different but could lead to sinful action. Ibn Qayyim said: “Ward off passing thoughts, for if you do not, they will become ideas. Ward off ideas, for if you do not, they will become desires. Fight them, for if you do not, they will become resolve and determination, and if you do not ward them off, they will become actions. If you do not resist them with their opposite, they will become habits and it will be difficult for you to get rid of them.” (Al-Fawaa’id by Ibn al-Qayyim, p. 33). Here is a good explanation:

//Removed link due to lack of posting privileges
It depends on what you consider an "act." For a while we have both refrained from sexual activity and only speak to each other without contact (which is mostly due to the distance between us). So unless you consider us talking and expressing our love for each other in words to be acts of homosexuality, then we do not do any acts.
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*charisma*
05-16-2016, 04:20 AM
@MorbidEntree

I didn't go through this thread in detail. I'm sure it's just repetitive of everyone telling you homosexuality is forbidden in Islam.

I saw that you were interested in Islam before, so I'm just letting you know that homosexuality is considered a desire that we have to either subdue or eradicate if possible. I cannot at all put myself in your shoes and tell you that I know how difficult it is to have sexual tendencies towards the same sex (especially as a male who's sexual drive is much greater) but that we are all tested in different ways with the things we may most desire. With that being said, homosexuality is a sin in Islam, but that doesn't mean you can't be Muslim. We put our faith before our desires, so if you are able to do that and understand and agree with what Islam is despite your homosexuality, then essentially you are Muslim. Unlawful intercourse is one of the biggest sins, and many Muslims who are unable to get married for whatever reason still refrain from having sex because it's not allowed. So I know that if it had to come down to following an Islamic lifestyle, you'd be able to do it. It's just a matter of what you want to do in the end, and whether your wants are in line with your core beliefs. Your sexuality does not have to be the most important thing in your life and dictate what your beliefs are. I wouldn't choose a belief system based on fleeting tendencies, so I don't think you should either.
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Search
05-16-2016, 04:44 AM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful)

@MorbidEntree

In addition to what @*charisma* has brilliantly written in post #104, I'd also like to say that it doesn't matter how many sins you commit because Allah is extremely merciful. So, for example, there are believers, self-identified as gay or straight, who have committed physical acts of sin and are still committing them, and even if they were to commit a billion of these physical acts of sin throughout their entire life, that sin in Islam is still considered worthy of forgiveness as long as a person sincerely asks for forgiveness of Allah. So, what I'm trying to tell you is that if you become/are convinced of the Truth of Islam, then I'd say that you should convert/revert regardless of whether you believe you can commit to not engaging in physical acts of sin. That is because in the eyes of God, denying God is the only unforgivable sin. Any sins other than denying God are washed in the Ocean of Mercy as long as the person strives in the path of God. No human being is sin-free, and we can only strive our best to be godly but that doesn't mean we'll get to that high terminus; and therefore, Allah counts our intentions. So, if you intend to try to do your best by God, that's all that matters, not the end-results. We all have our struggles, and every human is struggling in some way.

Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) relayed in a sacred hadith (prophetic tradition): “Allah the Almighty has said: ‘O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me, and hope in Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds in the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I shall forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with an earthful of sins and were you then to face Me, without having associated anything with Me, I shall grant you an earthful of pardon.'”
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abumuslim82
05-16-2016, 08:54 AM
Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
What do you mean?



It depends on what you consider an "act." For a while we have both refrained from sexual activity and only speak to each other without contact (which is mostly due to the distance between us). So unless you consider us talking and expressing our love for each other in words to be acts of homosexuality, then we do not do any acts.
I mean I hope u not making mischief on here, u do know about the media/internet and how it is one of the tools to attack Muslims. Trust me u don't want to be part of the hell fire.

Accept Islam and quick, who knows when the angel of death is to pay a visit.
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~ Sabr ~
05-16-2016, 12:43 PM
You are not allowed to be Gay/Lesbian in Islam as the Qur'aan forbids it. Khalaas.
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Pygoscelis
05-16-2016, 01:41 PM
Is there any reason that being gay isn't ok other than "because Allah says so"? Is this entirely based on obedience to authority or is there a deeper moral underpinning?

And why does homosexuality draw so much spite and outrage from religiouw folks? There are plenty of other things that God is said to forbid, ranging from pork to mixed fibers, that you never see this sort of reaction over.

Homosexuality is one of the worst sins up there with murder and rape and slavery? Really? Why?
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~ Sabr ~
05-16-2016, 01:51 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Is there any reason that being gay isn't ok other than "because Allah says so"? Is this entirely based on obedience to authority or is there a deeper moral underpinning?

And why does homosexuality draw so much spite and outrage from religiouw folks? There are plenty of other things that God is said to forbid, ranging from pork to mixed fibers, that you never see this sort of reaction over.

Homosexuality is one of the worst sins up there with murder and rape and slavery? Really? Why?
Greeting Pygoscelis,

Actually you see "this type of reaction" towards anything that Allaah has forbidden - this goes for Alcohol, Pigs, Fornication/Adultery/Rape, Apostates, etc.

Don't know where you are looking.

By the way, "because Allaah says so" is enough for us. Might not be for you. But it is for us.

Peace :peace:
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Serinity
05-16-2016, 02:02 PM
The problem is not that it is because Allah SWT says so.

The kuffar won't be convinced by that, why? Because they have a BIGGER problem than that - believing in Allah SWT.

Cuz we believe and are convinced, therefore even if we don't understand we say "we hear and obey" Cuz we KNOW it is from ALLAH SWT.
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~ Sabr ~
05-16-2016, 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
The problem is not that it is because Allah SWT says so.

The kuffar won't be convinced by that, why? Because they have a BIGGER problem than that - believing in Allah SWT.

Cuz we believe and are convinced, therefore even if we don't understand we say "we hear and obey" Cuz we KNOW it is from ALLAH SWT.
:salamext: brother,

Allaah KNOWS why - even if we don't. Probably because of diseases and stuff and because it's NOT natural... man and man...woman and woman...technically don't work. Physically.
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Serinity
05-16-2016, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by ~ Sabr ~

:salamext: brother,

Allaah KNOWS why - even if we don't. Probably because of diseases and stuff and because it's NOT natural... man and man...woman and woman...technically don't work. Physically.
Wa alaikum salam, wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

True, Allah SWT knows why, how, etc. It doesn't make sense either, it isn't natural either. I understand why it is. Cuz we- man to woman, woman to man. Not anything else, any other is the inventions from the perversions of man.

IT is Allah SWT's law that dictates what we can and can not do. TO acknowledge what you can and can not do, is the way to success.

And it goes against proper manhood and masculinity to be a sodomite. It is going against the fitrah to be gay.

Being gay is worse than stealing, etc. Cause you are going against the fitrah.

Being a rapist is worse than stealing, being a gay is worse than being a rapist in my eyes! At least one can understand the rape, but the sodomite? Totally illogical! unnatural, and disgusting, even more so than the rape.

To illustrate how disgusting sodomy is, imagine people eat food, etc. Imagine then they eating their own feces. That is how I see sodomy.

And yes, if we don't know or understand we say "We hear and obey" cuz we've taken a convenant with Allah SWT. And we'd delude ourselves and move ourselves to destruction if we were to defy Allah SWT, Audhu billah. May Allah SWT protect us from that. Ameen.
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Serinity
05-16-2016, 03:09 PM
Oh and for my illustration.

Allah SWT created food as a provision to US. IF we eat feces, and excrement, we'd be cursed! Cause Allah SWT Did NOT create it for us to eat! And it goes against the fitrah

Similarily, Allah SWT created women for man to have tranquility in. Allah SWT created man for women to have tranquility in, afaik.

For someone to then go to the man would be against the fitrah.Going to the man is like going to the feces to eat it.
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Pygoscelis
05-16-2016, 03:22 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
True, Allah SWT knows why, how, etc. It doesn't make sense either, it isn't natural either.
You guys keep saying that. What do you mean by "it isn't natural"? Is it supernatural then? Are gays ghosts or Gods? :p

If you mean it doesn't happen in nature, you'd be wrong. Pretty much every sexual species engages in homosexuality.

Is human flight natural? Is modern medicine natural? Is plastic natural? Does something not being "natural" automatically make it bad?

Being gay is worse than stealing, etc. Cause you are going against the fitrah.

Being a rapist is worse than stealing, being a gay is worse than being a rapist in my eyes!

Do you say that being gay is worse than slavery and murder too? Just because "Allah says so"?

To illustrate how disgusting sodomy is, imagine people eat food, etc. Imagine then they eating their own feces. That is how I see sodomy.
That is disgusting. But is it more immoral than rape? Do you equate your sense of disgust with your sense of morality? Is that it? I too find homosexuality disgusting, because I'm heterosexual, but I don't see why me finding something disgusting should make it automatically immoral.

And yes, if we don't know or understand we say "We hear and obey" cuz we've taken a convenant with Allah SWT. And we'd delude ourselves and move ourselves to destruction if we were to defy Allah SWT, Audhu billah. May Allah SWT protect us from that. Ameen.
How far will you take that? If Allah said that you should hunt and kill homosexuals, would you?
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MorbidEntree
05-16-2016, 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
You guys keep saying that. What do you mean by "it isn't natural"? Is it supernatural then? Are gays ghosts or Gods? :p

If you mean it doesn't happen in nature, you'd be wrong. Pretty much every sexual species engages in homosexuality.

Is human flight natural? Is modern medicine natural? Is plastic natural? Does something not being "natural" automatically make it bad?




Do you say that being gay is worse than slavery and murder too? Just because "Allah says so"?



That is disgusting. But is it more immoral than rape? Do you equate your sense of disgust with your sense of morality? Is that it? I too find homosexuality disgusting, because I'm heterosexual, but I don't see why me finding something disgusting should make it automatically immoral.



How far will you take that? If Allah said that you should hunt and kill homosexuals, would you?
He means that it goes against human nature to be homosexual, which kinda makes sense. It is human nature for us to want to reproduce, resulting in heterosexuality. But I think that homosexuality has its purpose in human nature somewhere, such as population limiting or something like that.
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Pygoscelis
05-16-2016, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by ~ Sabr ~
Actually you see "this type of reaction" towards anything that Allaah has forbidden - this goes for Alcohol, Pigs, Fornication/Adultery/Rape, Apostates, etc.

Don't know where you are looking.
I have seen Gay Pride publicly protested. The level of outrage the likes of Fred Phelps etc. I have never seen a Rib Fest (pork) reacted to in that way. Gay Marriage (of non-religious people) is a hot issue for a lot of religious people. Catholics serving pork chops or ham sandwiches at wedding receptions is not. Why is that?
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Serinity
05-16-2016, 05:49 PM
Idc what you say Pygo, I stand my ground. And I've put you on ignore knowing your way of thinking.

If you understand the feces part, then good. If you don't understand the analogies, then the problem is with you.

Allah SWT created us upon the fitrah. It is unnatural to be gay. And animals have no shame or moral compass, so they may even sleep in their own feces.

we don't take animals as a guide, as we are not animals.

Animals won't be accountable, but we will. We follow the Prophet Muhammad SAW and Allah SWT.

Homosexuality has no purpose, as it is a deviation, and no deviation has a purpose except to mislead mankind.

sodomy has no benefit, it is destroying mankind. Leaving tons of women unmarried, spreading illegal sexual intercourse and promscuity.

by that you say rapists, etc. Have a good purpose too? Taking care of their lusts? Raping young women, cuz hey, it is nice!

What about the doctor having sex with their patient? The teacher with their students?

What about incest? Father with daughter, son with mother? (I feel disgusting writing this)

We are not insects or fish either.

And Allah SWT knows best.
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Pygoscelis
05-16-2016, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
He means that it goes against human nature to be homosexual, which kinda makes sense. It is human nature for us to want to reproduce, resulting in heterosexuality. But I think that homosexuality has its purpose in human nature somewhere, such as population limiting or something like that.
Hi MorbidEntree,

It is an interesting question. Homosexual sex doesn't result in babies, so why did we evolve to have homosexuality included in the species, and indeed in pretty much all species (aside from those that reproduce asexually)? For that matter, why are we apt to live far beyond the age of reproduction and raising children? Why do we have genes to allow a full life after menopause? This is known as the "Grandmother question" and it runs along the same line of inquiry.

To answer it, you have to look at evolution from the gene's point of view, rather than from the individual organism's point of view. Many of your genes are in your brothers and sisters, and in your own offspring , so it pays off for the genes for you to care for your siblings and their children, as well as for your grandchildren. If a certain percentage of the population does not reproduce themselves, but instead gives assistance to raising the children of their siblings etc, that may be selected for. If the parent dies, the homosexual sibling with no children of their own, may be ready to step right in so the offspring doesn't suffer. This has been observed in studies on birds as well as mammals.

A little ironic, isn't it? That the reason homosexuality persists down the genetic line may have something to do with homosexuals caring for children - exactly what some religious folks fear most.
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Pygoscelis
05-16-2016, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Idc what you say Pygo, I stand my ground. And I've put you on ignore knowing your way of thinking.

If you understand the feces part, then good. If you don't understand the analogies, then the problem is with you.

Allah SWT created us upon the fitrah. It is unnatural to be gay. And animals have no shame or moral compass, so they may even sleep in their own feces.

we don't take animals as a guide, as we are not animals.

Animals won't be accountable, but we will. We follow the Prophet Muhammad SAW and Allah SWT.

Homosexuality has no purpose, as it is a deviation, and no deviation has a purpose except to mislead mankind.

by that you say rapists, etc. Have a good purpose too? Taking care of their lusts? Raping young women, cuz hey, it is nice!

We are not insects or fish either.

And Allah SWT knows best.
I notice that you didn't answer my questions. Is homosexuality worse than murder and slavery? Would you hunt and murder homosexuals if God told you to? Do you have any moral sense aside from obedience to the almighty?

You refuse to answer, and I am pretty sure I know why.
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Umm Abed
05-16-2016, 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I notice that you didn't answer my questions. Is homosexuality worse than murder and slavery? Would you hunt and murder homosexuals if God told you to? Do you have any moral sense aside from obedience to the almighty?

You refuse to answer, and I am pretty sure I know why.
Homosexuality and murder are all equal in evilness so I think thats the answer : )
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MuslimInshallah
05-16-2016, 06:42 PM
Assalaamu alaikum,


One of the OPs (this thread started as 2, then merged) came on this Board seeking information about Islam. He is homosexual, and he is trying to understand Islam, and whether he can be a Muslim. I would respectfully ask the participants whether they truly believe that what they are saying is conducive to giving da'wah?

We all will have to face our Creator one day. Are the things we are saying on this thread, things that we will feel secure about on That Day? Please, my brothers and sisters in Islam...the people we are speaking with on this Board are real people, with real feelings... and to whom we, as Muslims, have a responsibility before Allah.

For those who would like to know whether you can be Muslim and homosexual, or how we, as Muslims, should behave with people who have these inclinations, perhaps the following video may help: http://seekershub.org/blog/2016/04/lgbtq/

Please, let us curb the side issues of whether we think homosexuality is "natural" or not. Or how we, personally feel about homosexuality. The OP wanted to know about Islam... so please, let us talk with wisdom and good speech, about Islam.

As Allah Says in the Qur'an 16:125 (translated interpretation of meaning):

Yusuf Ali: Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.


May Allah, the Oft-Forgiving, Help us to do what is Pleasing to Him.
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Cpt.America
05-16-2016, 06:59 PM
The desire itself isn't sinful.
The actions are.

There are also instances where homosexual thoughts arise. I won't say it occurs naturally, but the psychiatric pathology for same sex attractions can be subtle, impossible to diagnose, and vary wildly from person to person.

To OP: yes you can be a Muslim who struggles with homosexual urges. That is a personal and internal battle to fight.
Same as some
Muslims struggle with desires to smoke, or drink, or commit fornication, or lie, or commit any other sinful act.
But the actions of homosexuality are not lawful in Islam, and there is not support for any sort of 'homosexual community'
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Search
05-16-2016, 07:30 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you) Dear sister
and hello to the rest of the peeps here:

@Umm Abed @Pygoscelis @MorbidEntree

I respectfully disagree, sister, with what you've said as both are not the same nor equal in the eyes of Allah. We as Muslims do not deny that sodomy or lesbian sex is prohibited in Islam, but I do not and would never equate it to murder and I have never seen or heard it equated to murder by any reputable sheikhs (Islamic teachers) (may Allah bless them). Allah has said in the Quran that murdering one innocent person is equivalent to murdering all humanity. Yet Islam has never said the same for zina (fornication) of any type, and sodomy is zina (fornication). In fact, Islamic scholars have quite clearly mentioned throughout Islamic history that zina (fornication) is lesser in terms of gravity as sin than murder and shirk (idolatry).

In Islam, we were taught the story of Prophet Lut (Lot) alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) to teach us that sodomy is divinely forbidden as it makes a person to not fulfill half of the deen (religion) with the opposite sex, the creation of which was explicitly undertaken to provide a companion for Prophet Adam alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) in Heaven to encourage us in mercy and goodness to remain firm on the Straight Path and enable us to birth and raise righteous children to worship Allah as a means of working in dunya (world) for the attainment of Divine Pleasure and return to our real home Paradise.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

Originally Posted by Umm Abed
Homosexuality and murder are all equal in evilness so I think thats the answer : )
:wa:
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Search
05-16-2016, 08:07 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful)

@MorbidEntree

Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) relayed the following:

"A servant committed a sin and he said: 'O Allah, forgive my sin!'

Allah the Exalted said: 'My servant has committed a sin and he knows he has a Lord who forgives sins and holds him accountable.'

Then the servant returned to his sin and he said: 'O Allah, forgive my sin!'

Allah said: 'My servant has committed a sin and he knows he has a Lord who forgives sins and holds him accountable.'

Then the servant returned to his sin and he said: 'O Allah, forgive my sin!'

Allah said: 'My servant has committed a sin and he knows he has a Lord who forgives sins and holds him accountable, so do what you will for I have forgiven you.'"


Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) also relayed the following:

“Every son of Adam sins, and the best of those who sin are those who repent.”

Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) also relayed the following of Paradise:

"Allah said: 'I have prepared for my righteous servants what no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no heart has perceived.' No soul knows what joy for them has been kept hidden."

Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) also relayed the following of Paradise:

"Verily, Allah will say to the people of Paradise: 'O people of Paradise!'

They will say: We are at your service, our Lord, all goodness is in Your hand!'

Allah will say: 'Are you satisfied?'

They will say: 'Why should we not be satisfied when You have given us what you have not given to any other creation?'

Allah will say: 'Shall I not give you something better than that?'

They will say: 'O Lord, what could possibly be better than that?'

Allah will say: 'I will bestow upon you My pleasure and I will never be displeased with you afterwards.'
"
Reply

Serinity
05-16-2016, 08:23 PM
Firawn was a monster, yet Allah SWT had Mercy on him, showed him obvious signs, and even sent hardships to Firawn because of his evil-doing as an opportunity for Firawn to come back to Islam, The Straight Path.

Allah SWT sent Prophet Musa AS to Firawn and said to speak kindly etc. Afaik.

So don't despair of Allah SWT's Mercy, for when you enter Islam, In shaa' Allah, you will leave this evil sin, and find yourself loving Allah SWT more than this evil sin.

When you obey Allah SWT and come closer to Him SWT. you will love what Allah SWT loves, hate what Allah SWT hates, etc. Which means hating all the sins.

And Allah SWT knows best.
Reply

~ Sabr ~
05-17-2016, 08:15 AM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Catholics serving pork chops or ham sandwiches at wedding receptions is not. Why is that?
Greetings Pygoscelis,

Because Catholics are serving at their wedding, they can do whatever they want. It doesn't concern Muslims.

If they try and served that at a Muslim wedding, then you would see the uproar.

Same applies to Gay/Lesbians - If non-Muslims want to be gay/lesbian, that's up to them - but when a Muslim does it it concerns the religion as we feel very passionately for our religious rules given to us by Allaah, we WILL cause an uproar.
Reply

Pygoscelis
05-17-2016, 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by ~ Sabr ~
Same applies to Gay/Lesbians - If non-Muslims want to be gay/lesbian, that's up to them
That is a very refreshing religious view. I wish more religious folks thought this way.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
05-17-2016, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
It's not haram to be gay but it is haram to act on it. IE don't do anything sexual with a man and it's fine. It's been scientifically proven that you cannot choose your sexuality so Allah has created you this way as a test for you. Everyone has their tests and everyone's tests are different.

Obviously if you are not attracted to woman then your only option is to be single. Damn, that's one hell of a test :D good luck and may Allah guide you.
Give Islamic proof or remain silent.
Reply

Umm Abed
05-17-2016, 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
That is a very refreshing religious view. I wish more religious folks thought this way.
I actually dont agree with this.

Dont know how is it 'refreshing', when being gay is against the core of human nature.
Reply

Serinity
05-17-2016, 06:33 PM
How is it refreshing to know that eating excrement is actually ok? OR having the desire is ok?

Perhaps, yes, the desire is uncontrollable, but that does NOT make it natural, or ok. Otherwise we'll have to say the same to the rapists, etc. too.

It is against the fitrah, and a deviation. Something that needs correcting. It is enough for a Muslim to know that Allah SWT prohibited it, and rightly so. For when Allah SWT decrees a matter, it simply is.

IF something like sodomy doesn't disturb you, then something is wrong with your fitrah / state.
May Allah SWT forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.
And Allah SWT knows best.
Reply

ardianto
05-17-2016, 11:09 PM
No one want to be gay. If homosexual people could choose, they would choose to be heterosexual. This is what we must understand before judge the gay.

I have few gay Muslim friends and I know how hard their lives. Just like heterosexual people, they want to have partner. But in another side, they don't want to fall in sin if they do act of homosexuality. So the only solution is remain single, and it make them live in loneliness.
Reply

Cpt.America
05-18-2016, 01:55 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
No one want to be gay. If homosexual people could choose, they would choose to be heterosexual. This is what we must understand before judge the gay.

I have few gay Muslim friends and I know how hard their lives. Just like heterosexual people, they want to have partner. But in another side, they don't want to fall in sin if they do act of homosexuality. So the only solution is remain single, and it make them live in loneliness.
Another point of interest is that historically in other societies there have been people who committed homosexual actions (so had homosexual attractions) but also had families and otherwise 'straight' lives. Like in some areas of Afghanistan powerful leaders choose to rape young boys, but also have families and etc. they aren't viewed as homosexual and don't identify as homosexual.
These actions are all deplorable of course and condemned in Islam for many many many reasons

but my point is just that this very fixed gender binary, as in you are either fully gay or you're straight and nothing else, seems to be a more recent societal construct. Whereas before and still in other areas of the world people will commit homosexual actions but feel as though that does not define them as necessarily having to be homosexual.

Im just wondering why this new cultural trend is, and if it has an effect on a person who is afflicted with homosexual desires, in a way that they feel as though it would be impossible for them to learn to feel sexual attraction towards the opposite gender.
At the end of the day, we all grow old and our spouses grow old
even straight people lose that sense of sexual attraction towards each other in terms of pure lust,
but love grows and sexual pleasure between the husband and wife remains in middle and old age, even if on an objective level both parties will say that a young man or women (whichever is the opposite gender) is 'hotter'

The terrible people of Lut AS were described as people who CHOSE to practice their lusts upon men rather than women.
They could have chosen to practice their lusts in a halal manner, or to be celibate.

i am not discrediting anyone who is struggling to fight their naffs and stay on the straight path of they are affected with homosexual desires,
i am merely pointing out that a lot of the psychological damage and rigid mental limitations (as in "it is impossible for me to have a straight marriage" or "I am incurable") has a lot to do with cultural conditioning

i mean just to make a frank example,
we all probably would feel more raw sexual attraction to some super model or actor/actress (whichever is your opposite gender reader) than our spouse but at the end of the day that isn't a factor. We love our spouse (or spouses (multiple spouses = spice? Lol bad joke) for more than just their looks, but for their soul (and ideally their Islam) and it is them that we choose to practice our lusts with as partners. Simply because someone prefers the same gender does not mean it is ultimately impossible for them to love a halal spouse. After all even for straight people, we don't and we shouldn't love every woman (or man, if you're a female reading this) but just one. We only need to love our spouse. Which every "secretly gay man" (like Ricky Martin) who has had a family and children have shown, is quite a possible achievement.

anyway sorry for the blabbing on,
these were simply some of my musings on the matter,
any thoughts opinions or inputs for anyone who reads this is of course welcome and appreciated, Jazakallah
Reply

Pygoscelis
05-18-2016, 04:47 AM
Originally Posted by Umm Abed
I actually dont agree with this.

Dont know how is it 'refreshing', when being gay is against the core of human nature.
I was remarking on a religious person stating unequivocally that she does demand that those not of her religion adhere to her religious views. That has become rare amongst the true believers. The homosexuals, eaters of pork, etc that are not Muslim are apparently not her the poster's concern. That is refreshing.
Reply

noraina
05-18-2016, 07:27 AM
As Muslims, we should always strive to invite others to the truth, not through compulsion, but gentle words and kindness. Thats our duty, after that it is between them and Allah swt what they choose to do, so long as they don't force us or anything to agree with them or compromise our own religion. I think the Qur'an sums this up beautifully in surat al-Kafirun.

1. Say: O disbelievers!
2. I worship not that which you worship;
3. Nor worship you that which I worship;
4. And I shall not worship that which you worship;
5. Nor will you worship that which I worship;
6. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 08:20 AM
Whether we are harsh or kind to the disbelievers depends. Obv, we can't be judgmental, but yeh.

IF they attack us, we can't be kind to them. Afaik..
Reply

MuslimInshallah
05-18-2016, 10:55 AM
Assalaamu alaikum @Serinity ,

Perhaps you might like to consider the following article. Yes, if all else fails, and a person is forced to defend themselves, they may (though only within the bounds of necessity to defend themselves, and with decency). But otherwise, a Muslim should try to "repel evil with that which is better", as explained below. (smile) Though we may not always do this (and I know I don't), I do believe this is what Pleases Allah SWT.


Repel evil with good and win the hearts of enemies

Abu Amina Elias • August 28, 2013

By Abu Amina Elias

In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful

Allah has praised those who respond to evil with good deeds. Those who repel evil with good will find that their enemies will become their friends.
Allah said:
وَلَا تَسْتَوِي الْحَسَنَةُ وَلَا السَّيِّئَةُ ادْفَعْ بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ فَإِذَا الَّذِي بَيْنَكَ وَبَيْنَهُ عَدَاوَةٌ كَأَنَّهُ وَلِيٌّ حَمِيمٌ وَمَا يُلَقَّاهَا إِلَّا الَّذِينَ صَبَرُوا وَمَا يُلَقَّاهَا إِلَّا ذُو حَظٍّ عَظِيمٍ

Not equal are the good deed and the bad deed. Repel evil by that which is better, and then the one who is hostile to you will become as a devoted friend. But none is granted it except those who are patient and none is granted it except one having a great fortune.

Surah Fussilat 41:34-35

Ibn Abbas commented on this verse, saying:
أَمَرَ اللَّهُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ بِالصَّبْرِ عِنْدَ الْغَضَبِ وَالْحِلْمِ عِنْدَ الْجَهْلِ وَالْعَفْوِ عِنْدَ الْإِسَاءَةِ فَإِذَا فَعَلُوا ذَلِكَ عَصَمَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِنَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَخَضَعَ لَهُمْ عَدُوُّهُمْ كَأَنَّهُ وَلِيٌّ حَمِيمٌ

Allah commands the believers to be patient when they feel angry, to be forbearing when confronted with ignorance, and to forgive when they are mistreated. If they do this, Allah will save them from Satan and subdue their enemies to them until they become like close friends.
Source: Tafsīr al-Qur’ān al-‘Aẓīm 41:34

Allah has commanded the believers in several verses to repel evil with good by being patient, merciful, and forgiving when confronted with mistreatment.
Allah said:
وَالَّذِينَ صَبَرُوا ابْتِغَاءَ وَجْهِ رَبِّهِمْ وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَنفَقُوا مِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ سِرًّا وَعَلَانِيَةً وَيَدْرَءُونَ بِالْحَسَنَةِ السَّيِّئَةَ أُولَٰئِكَ لَهُمْ عُقْبَى الدَّارِ
Those who are patient, seeking the countenance of their Lord, and establish prayer and spend from what We have provided for them, secretly and publicly, and repel evil with good, for those will have the good end.
Surat ar-Ra’d 13:22

And Allah said:
أُولَٰئِكَ يُؤْتَوْنَ أَجْرَهُم مَّرَّتَيْنِ بِمَا صَبَرُوا وَيَدْرَءُونَ بِالْحَسَنَةِ السَّيِّئَةَ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ
Those will be given their reward twice for what they patiently endured and they repel evil with good, and they spend from what We have provided them.
Surat al-Qasas 28:54

And Allah said:
ادْفَعْ بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ السَّيِّئَةَ نَحْنُ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا يَصِفُونَ
Repel evil with what is better. We are most knowing of what they describe.
Surat al-Mu’minun 23:96

And Allah said:
الَّذِينَ يُنفِقُونَ فِي السَّرَّاءِ وَالضَّرَّاءِ وَالْكَاظِمِينَ الْغَيْظَ وَالْعَافِينَ عَنِ النَّاسِ وَاللَّهُ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ
They are those who spend in charity during ease and hardship and who restrain their anger and pardon the people, for Allah loves those who are good.
Surat Ali Imran 3:134

The Prophet has taught us to respond with good deeds to those who are evil to us.
Aisha reported:
لَمْ يَكُنْ فَاحِشًا وَلَا مُتَفَحِّشًا وَلَا صَخَّابًا فِي الْأَسْوَاقِ وَلَا يَجْزِي بِالسَّيِّئَةِ السَّيِّئَةَ وَلَكِنْ يَعْفُو وَيَصْفَحُ
The Prophet was not indecent, he was not obscene, he would not shout in the markets, and he would not respond to an evil deed with an evil deed, but rather he would pardon and overlook.
Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 2016, Grade: Sahih

Abdullah ibn Amr reported that Allah has described the Prophet as follows:
سَمَّيْتُكَ الْمُتَوَكِّلَ لَيْسَ بِفَظٍّ وَلاَ غَلِيظٍ وَلاَ صَخَّابٍ فِي الأَسْوَاقِ وَلاَ يَدْفَعُ بِالسَّيِّئَةِ السَّيِّئَةَ وَلَكِنْ يَعْفُو وَيَغْفِرُ
I have called you a trustworthy man who is neither rude nor loud in the markets, nor does he return evil with evil, but rather he pardons and forgives.
Source: Sahih Bukhari 2018, Grade: Sahih

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:
مَا مِنْ عَبْدٍ ظُلِمَ بِمَظْلَمَةٍ فَيُغْضِي عَنْهَا لِلَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ إِلَّا أَعَزَّ اللَّهُ بِهَا نَصْرَهُ
No servant is wronged by an oppressor and he forgives him for the sake of Allah except that Allah the Exalted will support him.
Source: Musnad Ahmad 9411, Grade: Sahih

Uqbah ibn Amir reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:
صِلْ مَنْ قَطَعَكَ وَأَعْطِ مَنْ حَرَمَكَ وَأَعْرِضْ عَمَّنْ ظَلَمَكَ
Reconcile with whoever cuts you off, give to whoever deprives you, and turn away from whoever wrongs you.
Source: Musnad Ahmad 16883, Grade: Sahih li ghayriIn another narration, the Prophet said:
وَاعْفُ عَمَّنْ ظَلَمَكَ
And forgive whoever wrongs you.
Source: Musnad Ahmad 16999

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:
أَدِّ الْأَمَانَةَ إِلَى مَنْ ائْتَمَنَكَ وَلَا تَخُنْ مَنْ خَانَكَ
Fulfill the trust of those to whom they are due, and do not be treacherous to the one who betrays you.
Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 1264, Grade: Hasan

We should try to maintain good relations with those who severe ties with us, to give to those who do not give to us, and to forgive those who oppress us. The truly virtuous person is not the one who is good to those who are good to him, but rather the one who is good to those who are evil to him.
Abdullah ibn Amr reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:
لَيْسَ الْوَاصِلُ بِالْمُكَافِئِ وَلَكِنْ الْوَاصِلُ الَّذِي إِذَا قُطِعَتْ رَحِمُهُ وَصَلَهَا
The one who keeps good relations is not the one who recompenses the good done to him. Rather, the one who keeps good relations is the one who does so despite having been cut off by them.
Source: Sahih Bukhari 5645, Grade: Sahih

Umar ibn Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said:
لَيْسَ الْوَصْلُ أَنْ تَصِلَ مَنْ وَصَلَكَ ذَلِكَ الْقِصَاصُ وَلَكِنَّ الْوَصْلَ أَنْ تَصِلَ مَنْ قَطَعَكَ
The one who reconciles is not the one who maintains relations with those who are good to him, for that is merely reciprocation. Rather, the one who reconciles is one who maintains relations with those who cut him off.
Source: Shu’b al-Imān 7467

There are many instances in the life of the Prophet in which he would be good to those who were evil to him.

Anas ibn Malik reported:
كُنْتُ أَمْشِي مَعَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَعَلَيْهِ بُرْدٌ نَجْرَانِيٌّ غَلِيظُ الْحَاشِيَةِ فَأَدْرَكَهُ أَعْرَابِيٌّ فَجَبَذَ بِرِدَائِهِ جَبْذَةً شَدِيدَةً قَالَ أَنَسٌ فَنَظَرْتُ إِلَى صَفْحَةِ عَاتِقِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَقَدْ أَثَّرَتْ بِهَا حَاشِيَةُ الرِّدَاءِ مِنْ شِدَّةِ جَبْذَتِهِ ثُمَّ قَالَ يَا مُحَمَّدُ مُرْ لِي مِنْ مَالِ اللَّهِ الَّذِي عِنْدَكَ فَالْتَفَتَ إِلَيْهِ فَضَحِكَ ثُمَّ أَمَرَ لَهُ بِعَطَاءٍ
I was walking with the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, while he was wearing a Najrani sheet with a thick border. A desert Arab overtook the Prophet and forcibly pulled his clothes. I looked at the shoulder of the Prophet and I saw that the edge of his shirt had left a mark because of the strength of his pull. The man said: O Muhammad, order them to give me something from Allah’s wealth which you have! The Prophet turned and he smiled, then he ordered that he be given charity.
Source: Sahih Bukhari 5738, Grade: Sahih

On one occasion, the Prophet was cursed by a group of Jews and he reacted with patience and forbearance.
Aisha reported: A group of Jews asked permission to visit the Prophet and when they were admitted they said, “Death be upon you.” I said to them, “Rather, death and the curse of Allah be upon you!” The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:
يَا عَائِشَةُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ رَفِيقٌ يُحِبُّ الرِّفْقَ فِي الْأَمْرِ كُلِّهِ
O Aisha, Allah is kind and he loves kindness in all matters.
Source: Sahih Bukhari 6528, Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi

In another narration, the Prophet said:
يَا عَائِشَةُ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يُحِبُّ الْفُحْشَ وَالتَّفَحُّشَ
O Aisha, Allah does not love obscenity and immorality.
Source: Sahih Muslim 2165, Grade: Sahih

Al-Bukhari cited this tradition as evidence that the Prophet did not punish non-Muslims who blasphemed against him.
On another occasion, the Prophet was asked to invoke curses upon the idolaters who were persecuting the Muslims and he refused to do so.
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, was told, “O Messenger of Allah, pray against the idolaters!” The Prophet said:
إِنِّي لَمْ أُبْعَثْ لَعَّانًا وَإِنَّمَا بُعِثْتُ رَحْمَةً
Verily, I was not sent to invoke curses, but rather I was only sent as mercy.
Source: Sahih Muslim 2599, Grade: Sahih

Allah has mentioned that it is the practice of the prophets to patiently the abuse of those who wrong them.
Allah said:
قَالَتْ لَهُمْ رُسُلُهُمْ إِن نَّحْنُ إِلَّا بَشَرٌ مِّثْلُكُمْ وَلَٰكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَمُنُّ عَلَىٰ مَن يَشَاءُ مِنْ عِبَادِهِ وَمَا كَانَ لَنَا أَن نَّأْتِيَكُم بِسُلْطَانٍ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَعَلَى اللَّهِ فَلْيَتَوَكَّلِ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَمَا لَنَا أَلَّا نَتَوَكَّلَ عَلَى اللَّهِ وَقَدْ هَدَانَا سُبُلَنَا وَلَنَصْبِرَنَّ عَلَىٰ مَا آذَيْتُمُونَا وَعَلَى اللَّهِ فَلْيَتَوَكَّلِ الْمُتَوَكِّلُونَ

Their messengers said to them: We are only men like you, but Allah confers favor upon whom He wills of His servants. It has never been for us to bring you evidence except by permission of Allah, and upon Allah let the believers rely. Why should we not rely upon Allah while He has guided us to our ways? We will surely be patient against whatever harm you cause us, and let them depend upon Allah those who would rely.

Surat Ibrahim 14:11-12

In order for Muslims to emulate these beautiful examples, the Prophet would tell stories of others prophets in the past who asked Allah to forgive their people even as they were being beaten and harmed by them.

Abdullah ibn Mas’ud reported: I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, tell the story of a prophet who was beaten by his people and he wiped the blood from his face, saying:
‏ رَبِّ اغْفِرْ لِقَوْمِي فَإِنَّهُمْ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ
My Lord, forgive my people for they do not know.
Source: Sahih Bukhari 6530, Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi

An-Nawawi comments on this tradition, saying:
فِيهِ مَا كَانُوا عَلَيْهِ صَلَوَاتُ اللَّهِ وَسَلَامُهُ عَلَيْهِمْ مِنَ الْحِلْمِ وَالتَّصَبُّرِ وَالْعَفْوِ وَالشَّفَقَةِ عَلَى قَوْمِهِمْ وَدُعَائِهِمْ لَهُمْ بِالْهِدَايَةِ وَالْغُفْرَانِ وَعُذْرِهِمْ فِي جِنَايَتِهِمْ عَلَى أَنْفُسِهِمْ بِأَنَّهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ

In this tradition is what the Prophet practiced of forbearance, patience, forgiveness, and compassion for his people, his supplication for them to receive guidance and to be forgiven, and for them to be excused for their sins as they did not know.
Source: Sharh Sahih Muslim 1792

Hence, we should strive to practice patience, mercy, and forgiveness whenever we are confronted with abuse. We should control our anger, pardon people, and supplicate for Allah to guide those who have gone astray. If we do so, we will win the hearts of our enemies and turn them into our close friends.

Success comes from Allah, and Allah knows best.

http://abuaminaelias.com/repelling-e...ts-of-enemies/
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 11:17 AM
I am so confused. May Allah SWT guide me. Ameen.
Reply

Kiro
05-18-2016, 11:32 AM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I am so confused. May Allah SWT guide me. Ameen.
I pity you and gloat at you.

figuratively tho...
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 11:34 AM
Originally Posted by Kiro
I pity you and gloat at you.

figuratively tho...
Lol. Oh brother, you can hate me, detest me, and want to kill me, and I will still love you. *pats you on the head* :D

(You know it)

And Allah SWT knows best.
Reply

Kiro
05-18-2016, 11:37 AM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Lol. Oh brother, you can hate me, detest me, and want to kill me, and I will still love you. *pats you on the head* :D

(You know it)

And Allah SWT knows best.
I don't need your love when I am the one to shaaare the love




maybe you need some bro love to charge up your brain, confused lad
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by Kiro
I don't need your love when I am the one to shaaare the love




maybe you need some bro love to charge up your brain, confused lad
True. I don't need money lol. I need understanding and Guidance. :P

I don't want to go against Allah SWT. I just want clarity.
Reply

~ Sabr ~
05-18-2016, 11:53 AM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I am so confused. May Allah SWT guide me. Ameen.
What are you confused about?
Reply

MuslimInshallah
05-18-2016, 11:54 AM
Assalaamu alaikum @Kiro and @Serinity ,


(amused) I don't know whether you intended to do so on this thread, but it seems to me that you have shown to non-Muslims reading this thread, that it is possible for men to love one another in Islam. That they can be kind and warm and good to one another. (smile) Indeed, it is recommended that we be good to one another.

(smile) I hope the OP understands this. There is no problem if a person loves another person of the same gender. What God Asks is that people do not have sexual relations with a person of the same gender. (gently) And this may be really difficult for some people.


May God, the One Who Designed us, Who Knows our weaknesses, Help and Guide us as we struggle to do what is Pleasing to Him.
Reply

MuslimInshallah
05-18-2016, 12:00 PM
Assalaamu alaikum @~ Sabr ~ , @Serinity and @Kiro ,

Mmm...perhaps this conversation about what Serenity is feeling confused about could be on a new thread...?

JazakAllah khairan!
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 12:00 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum @Kiro and @Serinity,


(amused) I don't know whether you intended to do so on this thread, but it seems to me that you have shown to non-Muslims reading this thread, that it is possible for men to love one another in Islam. That they can be kind and warm and good to one another. (smile) Indeed, it is recommended that we be good to one another.

(smile) I hope the OP understands this. There is no problem if a person loves another person of the same gender. What God Asks is that people do not have sexual relations with a person of the same gender. (gently) And this may be really difficult for some people.


May God, the One Who Designed us, Who Knows our weaknesses, Help and Guide us as we struggle to do what is Pleasing to Him.
Obv, I love @Kiro :P we are friends. But the love isn't sexual or anything, audhu billah. It is more of a refreshing kind of love. Idk how to explain lol. I just love him cuz of his character and we are similar lol. And he is like a brother to me.

But yeah, men can love eachother. people seem to confuse men loving eachother, as gay. People think too much with the below. :/

^ ok. Yeah, we could.
Reply

Kiro
05-18-2016, 12:13 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Obv, I love @Kiro :P we are friends. But the love isn't sexual or anything, audhu billah. It is more of a refreshing kind of love. Idk how to explain lol. I just love him cuz of his character and we are similar lol. And he is like a brother to me.

But yeah, men can love eachother. people seem to confuse men loving eachother, as gay. People think too much with the below. :/

^ ok. Yeah, we could.
wswrb

love is a construct so I can say this, GIVE ME A GIFT
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 01:13 PM
Originally Posted by Kiro
wswrb

love is a construct so I can say this, GIVE ME A GIFT
Wa alaikum salam, wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

What gift? lol. Love that is based and conditioned by what people give of materialistic stuff, isn't love.

But I'd happily buy you a gift, simply because I love you as a brother lol. :P *pokes head*

Ok enough off topic. I almost forgot.

And Allah SWT knows best.
Reply

Cpt.America
05-18-2016, 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
Wa alaikum salam, wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,What gift? lol. Love that is based and conditioned by what people give of materialistic stuff, isn't love.But I'd happily buy you a gift, simply because I love you as a brother lol. :P *pokes head* Ok enough off topic. I almost forgot.And Allah SWT knows best.
Bros? I get no love? :'((In it for the gifts lol)
Reply

Serinity
05-18-2016, 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by Cpt.America
Bros? I get no love? :'((In it for the gifts lol)
Sure. :-)

*pokes head* *flips away*

LOL.

And Allah SWT knows best.
Reply

Pygoscelis
05-18-2016, 03:02 PM
LOL Gotta love the spontaneous bromance (platonic of course) breaking out in the middle of the thread.
Reply

Pygoscelis
05-18-2016, 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by Cpt.America
Another point of interest is that historically in other societies there have been people who committed homosexual actions (so had homosexual attractions) but also had families and otherwise 'straight' lives. Like in some areas of Afghanistan powerful leaders choose to rape young boys, but also have families and etc. they aren't viewed as homosexual and don't identify as homosexual.
These actions are all deplorable of course and condemned in Islam for many many many reasons

but my point is just that this very fixed gender binary, as in you are either fully gay or you're straight and nothing else, seems to be a more recent societal construct. Whereas before and still in other areas of the world people will commit homosexual actions but feel as though that does not define them as necessarily having to be homosexual.
Interesting point!

I think the rape example you gave above shows that rape is about power and dominance far more than it is about lust or romance. The same sort of thing can be seen in prisons. Some guys get off on dominating others, and actually get sexually aroused by it, and if they can't sexually dominate women, they will sexually dominate men. Sick as that is, it seems to exist in humans (as well as some other animals as you can see at any dog park). None of this is "homosexual" as in being attracted to same gender.

Another thing I'd like to point out as that despite everybody above equating homosexuality to sodomy, homosexuality doesn't necessarily include that and can be much more than that. There are many ways of "making love" that do not involve physical sex, and there are many sex acts that do not involve anal insertion (mouths, hands, fencing, etc). On the other side, many heterosexuals engage in anal sex (as disgusting as I agree that is). Bisexuality is also far more common than most people realize (and many who are bisexual hide it and even try to suppress it within themselves). And there are men to get off on cukolding themselves (watching a woman they care about having sex with another man). And then you have the transgendered born as men but identifying as women and wanting to have sex as a woman would with a man (which indeed can be done post-op).

People are complicated when it comes to sex. Way more complicated than gay = anal.
Reply

ardianto
05-18-2016, 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Bisexuality is also far more common than most people realize
Bisexual can choose their sexual orientation, as heterosexual or as homosexual. And mostly of them choose one of these two choices. The rest in smaller number choose to still oriented to bisexuality. That's why the number of bisexual look smaller than the real number.
Reply

Pygoscelis
05-18-2016, 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Bisexual can choose their sexual orientation, as heterosexual or as homosexual. And mostly of them choose one of these two choices. The rest in smaller number choose to still oriented to bisexuality. That's why the number of bisexual look smaller than the real number.
Bisexual people that I know (and yes I know some) tend to lean more in one direction than the other, and may have long term relationships with only one gender, but that doesn't mean they lose their bisexuality. I don't think they can shut off being attracted to the other gender by sheer willpower. I know one that leans heavily homosexual and has a boyfriend he is monogamous with, but he is still attracted to women, and not masculine women. It sticks in my mind because he has the same taste in women that I do.
Reply

ardianto
05-18-2016, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Bisexual people that I know (and yes I know some) tend to lean more in one direction than the other, and may have long term relationships with only one gender, but that doesn't mean they lose their bisexuality. I don't think they can shut off being attracted to the other gender by sheer willpower. I know one that leans heavily homosexual and has a boyfriend he is monogamous with, but he is still attracted to women, and not masculine women. It sticks in my mind because he has the same taste in women that I do.
What I mean with sexual orientation was referring to sexual relationship. Those bisexual still attracted to both gender. But in choosing the partner, they only choose one gender, depend on which sexual orientation that they choose.
Reply

Cpt.America
05-19-2016, 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
SubhanAllah

This forum is in a mess. No one follows Islam on here. Their desires and western-brainwashed opinions only contribute/matter on here. The others who claim islamic knowledge are thrown in the trash or receive infraction points for ''insulting'' other members. Since when was sincere or harsh advice ever taken to insult another?

May Allah guide us
This threads gotten a bit old,
but I am assuming everyone here knows homosexuality is a sin, and is never acceptable or should be in anyway supported.
Brothers who are afflicted with such desires of course should be supported in getting closer to their deen, and psychologically treated to help them leave these desires or keep them controlled.

I don't think anyone believes to the contrary, homosexual actions are a clear sin and the punishment of the Ummah of Lut AS is directly mentioned in the Quran
Reply

Serinity
05-19-2016, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
SubhanAllah

This forum is in a mess. No one follows Islam on here. Their desires and western-brainwashed opinions only contribute/matter on here. The others who claim islamic knowledge are thrown in the trash or receive infraction points for ''insulting'' other members. Since when was sincere or harsh advice ever taken to insult another?

May Allah guide us
It is indeed a grave accusation against Allah SWT to say "Allah SWT created me gay" rather acknowledge that one is corrupt and needs fixing would be better. It is no different from the rapist saying "Allah SWT Created me like this" etc.

But those who have the desire, we can't be harsh against them, we have to say that it is not ok to be gay and those desires are from shaytaan, and etc. One can still be muslim and have those desires - but one has to realise that his desire is not natural.

And ameen to your dua. Sometimes truth may be harsh. May Allah SWT help us. Ameen.
Reply

EgyptPrincess
05-19-2016, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
SubhanAllah

This forum is in a mess. No one follows Islam on here. Their desires and western-brainwashed opinions only contribute/matter on here. The others who claim islamic knowledge are thrown in the trash or receive infraction points for ''insulting'' other members. Since when was sincere or harsh advice ever taken to insult another?

May Allah guide us
:Emoji7:

A friendly forum which is open to debate and dialogue is certainly going to be more appealing to new people with questions about Islam. I joined UF, asked a question about got perma banned :Emoji43:

The reason why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world is because 99% of the population are kind, helpful, respectful and encouraging. Going all Kim Jung-Un on people is not very appealing for new people looking into Islam ;)
Reply

BilalKid
05-19-2016, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
May Allah guide us
mod ban member!! :raging: isis supporter!!
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
:Emoji7:

A friendly forum which is open to debate and dialogue is certainly going to be more appealing to new people with questions about Islam. I joined UF, asked a question about got perma banned :Emoji43:

The reason why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world is because 99% of the population are kind, helpful, respectful and encouraging. Going all Kim Jung-Un on people is not very appealing for new people looking into Islam ;)
I know you've gotten permanent banned. You have no voice in Islam. That is why they banned you. Farhan is just being nice.

Besides, the only ''backup'' you have proving your points are your emojis. Never have I seen any Islamic proof approving your stance.

May Allah guide us

Emotion has no opinion/voice in Islam. Sorry.

Try again.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by BilalKid
mod ban member!! :raging: isis supporter!!
How am I an isis supporter?
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 03:06 PM
Originally Posted by Cpt.America
This threads gotten a bit old,
but I am assuming everyone here knows homosexuality is a sin, and is never acceptable or should be in anyway supported.
Brothers who are afflicted with such desires of course should be supported in getting closer to their deen, and psychologically treated to help them leave these desires or keep them controlled.

I don't think anyone believes to the contrary, homosexual actions are a clear sin and the punishment of the Ummah of Lut AS is directly mentioned in the Quran
Giving you personal advice, there is no desire which ejects from the human itself. It is shaytan and it is the way you think.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
It is indeed a grave accusation against Allah SWT to say "Allah SWT created me gay" rather acknowledge that one is corrupt and needs fixing would be better. It is no different from the rapist saying "Allah SWT Created me like this" etc.

But those who have the desire, we can't be harsh against them, we have to say that it is not ok to be gay and those desires are from shaytaan, and etc. One can still be muslim and have those desires - but one has to realise that his desire is not natural.

And ameen to your dua. Sometimes truth may be harsh. May Allah SWT help us. Ameen.
Correct.

They aren't created gay. Shaytan deceives the weak Muslims.
Reply

Serinity
05-19-2016, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
Lol they aren't created gay. Shaytan deceives the weak Muslims.
True. shaytaan has decieved the sodomites. So much so that shaytaan doesn't need to remind them anymore. - society itself is helping shaytaan with this sodomy filth.

That is why we need to help them get off this filth. Only Allah SWT can cure people tho. If people continue to live in self-denial, by accusing Allah SWT. Then they'll meet the punishment.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
True. shaytaan has decieved the sodomites. So much so that shaytaan doesn't need to remind them anymore. - society itself is helping shaytaan with this sodomy filth.
A good akh. :jz:

I blame the teachings of the west. It might seem so innocent and desireable but the west is full of deviancy and corruption. The west is the factory of the kuffar. The more they build and follow their polytheist teachings, the more they'll create more disgusting and filthy habits which effects the muslims.

Being ''born gay'' is rubbish and it is mere deception. People need to wake up and realize reality. It is the way you think.

It is indeed the den of shaytan.
Reply

Cpt.America
05-19-2016, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Umar Ibn Farooq
Giving you personal advice, there is no desire which ejects from the human itself. It is shaytan and it is the way you think.
I agree with you. I never said anything differently. Those are the causes of this occurring: Shaytaan, society, and an improper way of thinking that comes as a result of that.

I am merely saying the issue is that once someone is afflicted with this mental illness, and understands that they must leave it for the sake of Allah, the important thing is how do we help them to fix themselves and be cured of this mental illness.
Like a person is not born alcoholic. They drink alcohol and become that. But once they realize it is haram and want to correct themselves, we must help them recover from the addiction and become closer to Allah.

I do appreciate you giving me advice though Akh. Jazakallah khair.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by Cpt.America
I agree with you. I never said anything differently. Those are the causes of this occurring: Shaytaan, society, and an improper way of thinking that comes as a result of that.

I am merely saying the issue is that once someone is afflicted with this mental illness, and understands that they must leave it for the sake of Allah, the important thing is how do we help them to fix themselves and be cured of this mental illness.
Like a person is not born alcoholic. They drink alcohol and become that. But once they realize it is haram and want to correct themselves, we must help them recover from the addiction and become closer to Allah.

I do appreciate you giving me advice though Akh. Jazakallah khair.
Wa iyaaki. A good akh.
Reply

Umar Ibn Farooq
05-19-2016, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
This. It would make no sense for me to choose to be gay when I see all the evil committed against other gay people. It's just a natural impulse that's developed unconsciously.

But, regarding your animal point, it is often a sign of authority and higher rank for an animal like a dog to have sex with another male dog. It's to assert dominance, just like how a lot of men get raped in prison, the rapist isn't gay, he's just asserting his dominance over the other man (or he is just desperate enough for sex that he will resort to forcing another man to do it with him).
Face your fears. You aren't gay.

Allah created us male and female. Overcome it.

Change the way you think. The only people who have told you you're gay are the western predessceors and their filthy teachings. You are a man. Not a woman. And no, even if you are a man, you aren't forced to love another man. You are born with free will. It is your OWN choice to do what you want to do.

It is proven you aren't born gay. There were twins which apparently one was gay and the other wasn't. Meaning you aren't born genetically gay. It is just clear deception. Living in an environment where they tell you ''be who you are''. Themselves haven't experienced it and you are only deluding yourself into thinking it's true. It won't fix over time. It takes time to get over it.

Allah has created deficiency both in men and women. He has made you to love the opposite sex. Just like how you have a magnet. Opposite attracts.

Those who say are gay, have mental illnesses, have OCD. This world isn't random and the creation of this universe isn't either.

Allah is still giving you a chance to repent and to leave this disgusting behavior.

Don't give in. If you are devoted and sincere, fight your devil and overcome your fear.
Reply

Pygoscelis
05-19-2016, 05:21 PM
MorbidEntree,

Ignore your actual feelings and attractions, pretend they don't exist, and pretend you are attracted to what you are not, just to please these fine Muslim folks who can't tolerate you being yourself. Live a lie for them, so they can be more comfortable. Sounds reasonable, yeah?
Reply

azc
05-19-2016, 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
MorbidEntree,

Ignore your actual feelings and attractions, pretend they don't exist, and pretend you are attracted to what you are not, just to please these fine Muslim folks who can't tolerate you being yourself. Live a lie for them, so they can be more comfortable. Sounds reasonable, yeah?
If someone is interested in incesting. Will you encourage him as your encouraging this brother now ?
Reply

Cpt.America
05-19-2016, 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
MorbidEntree,

Ignore your actual feelings and attractions, pretend they don't exist, and pretend you are attracted to what you are not, just to please these fine Muslim folks who can't tolerate you being yourself. Live a lie for them, so they can be more comfortable. Sounds reasonable, yeah?

chill bruh chill.

Thread did get a bit derailed.
basically, it seems the causation of homosexual attractions is being debated here now, and that really doesn't matter for the purposes of this discussion.

The important aspect is that, in Islam, certain actions are forbidden so are sins, and certain are allowed.
Acting upon homosexual urges is one such sin.
Every individual is affected by their own temptations in life,
and for some those temptations are homosexuality.
In Islam we believe that God's Will, is greater than our own desires, and as such it is our test in life to, out of our own free will, choose to worship God, and control our desires to sin (lie, cheat, steal, murder, commit fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, engage in usury, backbiting, pride and arrogance, alcoholism, polytheism, slander, or whatever other sins may personally affect us) to align ourselves to that which is pleasing to God (Mercy, kindness, feeding the poor and the orphans, humbleness, controlling anger, respect to parents, respect to others, honesty, steadfastness, honor, love for ones spouse and ones children, just rule, etc.) and distance ourselves from that which is displeasing to God.
It is the Muslims belief that this struggle is a test, and this test is the purpose of life, and is the only source to bring us true peace in this life, and heaven in the hereafter.

As such if a Muslim is afflicted with homosexual temptations, just like the temptations of any other sin, it is their duty to try to control it for the short duration of this life, to become closer to God, and in the hereafter there will be no such struggle with temptations.

Basically a Muslim chooses to be Muslim by the freedom of his or her own will to submit their will to the Will of Allah. There is no compulsion to be Muslim.
but to be Muslim means we have to accept God's law, and accept that things which might attract us may be things we have to struggle to leave God willingly.
Reply

Cpt.America
05-19-2016, 06:08 PM
I don't know, but maybe this video can be helpful to your curiosity about sins in Islam.

youtu.be/C5ACV4EpcZU
Reply

BlackFlags
05-19-2016, 06:11 PM
Yes it clearly goes against the teachings of Islam.

Originally Posted by MorbidEntree
I'll just say it frankly, I'm gay and in a relationship with another man. Does this go against the teachings of Islam, or is it accepted within the Islamic community for a person to be homosexual?
Reply

Search
05-19-2016, 06:14 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful)

Hey, that's unfair. We never asked OP to pretend anything. And he should never try to please us as Muslims or any members of humanity for that matter because ultimately we're all temporal human beings and none of us is accountable to the other and nor is he accountable to us.

Instead, OP, if he's convinced of the Truth of Islam, should instead strive to please God; I have also provided hadiths (prophetic traditions) that show being sinful or engaging in sin doesn't mean that God's forgiveness or mercy is barred to anyone of us. So, he should strive to please God, but like any human beings, he may fall short and make mistakes, and that's okay because whether someone is an atheist or a Muslim, all of us are struggling in some way or another in our lives. And our struggles don't define who we are or who we have the potential to be - rather, our struggles refine us.

Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
MorbidEntree,

Ignore your actual feelings and attractions, pretend they don't exist, and pretend you are attracted to what you are not, just to please these fine Muslim folks who can't tolerate you being yourself. Live a lie for them, so they can be more comfortable. Sounds reasonable, yeah?
Reply

Serinity
05-19-2016, 06:33 PM
Homosexuality is a disease. Who normalised it anyway? Who started it? Man did. Why follow man and their perversions? I see you are a victim of this perversion. But I want you to realise. How did all those 7 billion people come. By the will of Allah SWT. How did He SWT plan it?

man + woman = off spring.

Allah SWT did NOT make it:

man + man = off spring.

Therefore one is going against the fundamental rulings of procreation, to which any reasonable man would find reason in .

So tell me, is it you that created yourself, or was it Allah SWT? It was Allah SWT. Therefore do not heed your desires, but follow Allah SWT. Know Allah SWT is all-knowing, All-Wise.

I am not saying to believe blindly - but to realise that this homosexuality is - albeit and perhaps unintentional - is a delusion and a trap of shaytaan to which mankind has fallen prey to.

Know that shaytaan is trying his best to keep all mankind away from Islam, The Truth.

So what is preventing you from Islam? Your corrupt desires? then think, Allah SWT created you, you are a slave of His. you are not your own creator. So won't you take heed? Allah SWT knows best what is right and wrong, and what is good for you.

So if it is only these corrupted desires that are preventing you - then I invite you to Islam - accept it. you may have homosexual feelings, but I ask you to accept. What is most important now is that you understand that - yes homosexual acts is haram. The desires are from the shaytaan - corrupted. But they are out of your control.

Join Islam and take heed. Don't be controlled by your desires. Use your head. Sodomy is unnatural - how else would we have 7 billion except by the pairing of man to woman?

This may be a great test for you, but by accepting Islam, you've acknowledged Allah SWT as your Lord. As He SWT always was.

So don't fall into the traps of shaytaan. Allah SWT did not make you like this, shaytaan corrupted you.

Allah SWT is very Kind and Merciful, so accept Islam, and turn to Him SWT, and you will find Him SWT Merciful, Oft-forgiving.
May Allah SWT forgive me if I said any wrong. Ameen.

And Allah SWT knows best.
Reply

Pygoscelis
05-19-2016, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful)

Hey, that's unfair. We never asked OP to pretend anything. And he should never try to please us as Muslims or any members of humanity for that matter because ultimately we're all temporal human beings and none of us is accountable to the other and nor is he accountable to us.
You didn't Search, but just look at some of the responses in this thread. on the one hand you have the decent Muslims like yourself simply stating that homosexual sex goes against Islam and isn't accepted in Islam, and that homosexuality is a test or something to overcome to please Allah. As a non-muslim I find that rather arbitrary and without rational basis, but at least it isn't dishonest or hateful. But then on the other hand you've got people here equating homosexuality to murder and trying to tell MorbidEntree what he naturally feels and how he must behave. Doing so would be living a lie, hence my response you quoted.
Reply

Serinity
05-19-2016, 06:41 PM
Feelings and desires has no value before what is right and wrong. For desires and feelings are corruptable - that is why Allah SWT gave us a brain.

Allah SWT gave us desires to control it, to overpower it, not to follow it, and enslave us to it. But some have had their desires corrupted by shaytaan. Allah SWT created us with the attraction to the opposite sex.
Reply

Pygoscelis
05-19-2016, 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
man + woman = off spring.

Allah SWT did NOT make it:

man + man = off spring.

Therefore one is going against the fundamental rulings of procreation, to which any reasonable man would find reason in .
This sort of logic could make sense even without the appeal to religion if there was a population shortage of humans and we were facing extinction. And perhaps that is why it was put into these religions? Because they needed to grow population to make more warriors, etc? But clearly, we are not in a population shortage today, and if anything the earth is overpopulated and humans are still growing exponentially in numbers. So a few people not procreating (and that wouldn't just be due to homosexuality) is actually helping us more than it is hurting us, given the limited resources that we have on our planet.
Reply

Pygoscelis
05-19-2016, 06:53 PM
Allah SWT created us with the attraction to the opposite sex.
So on top of everything else, you are calling homosexuals liars. They don't REALLY feel what they feel, and they were created with attraction to the opposite sex? They somehow chose to be homosexual? Why would anybody choose that given how you and others regard homosexuality? If Shaytan tempted them to be homosexual, what did he tempt them with? If they had no interest in their same sex, they couldn't be tempted by it. Do you remember choosing to be heterosexual? Or are you just heterosexual? Sorry, but some people are NOT the slightest bit attracted to the opposite sex, and the best that they can do is fake it to fit into society and make you happy.

It is one thing to tell people that they were born with a special test to overcome. It is quite another to insist that they feel an attraction that they have never felt, or to equate cuddling who they want to cuddle with murder.
Reply

Cpt.America
05-19-2016, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
This sort of logic could make sense even without the appeal to religion if there was a population shortage of humans and we were facing extinction. And perhaps that is why it was put into these religions? Because they needed to grow population to make more warriors, etc? But clearly, we are not in a population shortage today, and if anything the earth is overpopulated and humans are still growing exponentially in numbers. So a few people not procreating (and that wouldn't just be due to homosexuality) is actually helping us more than it is hurting us, given the limited resources that we have on our planet.
To be honest I severely doubt that the world is overpopulated.
There is scarcity of essential resources only because of corruption and greed causing unfair distributions.
For example in the US, there are tonnes upon tonnes of extra crop grown every year to the point, farmers are paid subsidies as reward to not over produce. All the excess grain is stored for years in silos or unceremoniously dumped into the ocean.
In Bangladesh, am impoverished country very dependent upon foreign aide, rural communities are deprived of essentials like grain and tin shelters because the local political leaders hoarde the resources and sell them for a profit.
If Thomas Malthus had been right about population overcrowding, we would've been dead and gone probably a century or two ago.

I know this might not be on topic, but just my two cents.

Nature is perfect, and a miracle of self balancing homeostasis, but man is the cause of corruption and bloodshed in the world (a point the Angels noted at the origins of our creation actually, as referenced in Surah Baqarah)

Might wanna check out this video bruv:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ifllgTA2pmY
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
12-26-2016, 10:52 PM
Sahaabah-e-Kiraam had Ijmaa` (consensus) that sodomites are to be killed. They only differed in how the execution was supposed to take place. Hadhrat Abu Bakr رضي الله عنه and Hadhrat `Ali ibn Abi Taalib رضي الله عنه said that they should be burnt out. Hadhrat `Abdullaah ibn `Abbaas رضي الله عنهما said that they should be thrown to death from a high place, or they should be stoned to death.

Hadhrat Abu Bakr as-Siddeeq رضي الله عنه, Hadhrat `Ali ibn Abi Taalib رضي الله عنه, Hadhrat Khaalid ibn al-Waleed رضي الله عنه, Hadhrat `Abdullaah ibn az-Zubayr رضي الله عنه, Hadhrat `Abdullaah ibn `Abbaas رضي الله عنه, from the Sahaabah, and Imaam Maalik, Imaam ash-Shaafi`ee, Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal and Imaam Is-haaq ibn Raahawayh from the Fuqahaa, as well as others, all gave the verdict that sodomites are to be killed regardless of whether they are married or not.

During the conquests of the Sahaabah, Hadhrat Khaalid ibn al-Waleed رضي الله عنه once came across a male in one particular Arab tribe whom the men would have sexual intercourse with like they would with a woman. He wrote to the Khaleefah, Hadhrat Abu Bakr as-Siddeeq رضي الله عنه, asking him what should be done with this male. Hadhrat Abu Bakr as-Siddeeq رضي الله عنه consulted the Sahaabah, and Hadhrat `Ali ibn Abi Taalib رضي الله عنه, who was his advisor, said: "No one did that but one of the nations (i.e. Qowm-e-Loot), and you know what Allaah did to them. My view is that he should be burnt to death." So Hadhrat Abu Bakr as-Siddeeq رضي الله عنه wrote back to Hadhrat Khaalid ibn al-Waleed رضي الله عنه informing him of this, and the homosexual was burnt to death.

Hadhrat `Abdullaah ibn `Abbaas رضي الله عنه said:

وقال عبد الله بن عباس : ينظر أعلى ما في القرية فيرمى اللوطي منها منكسا ثم يتبع بالحجارة

"Look for the highest place in the village, then throw the sodomite off from there, and follow that up with stones (i.e. throw stones after him)."

Hadhrat `Abdullaah ibn `Abbaas رضي الله عنه based this punishment on the way Allaah Ta`aalaa had destroyed Qowm-e-Loot.

Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said:

من وجدتموه يعمل عمل قوم لوط فاقتلوا الفاعل والمفعول به

"If you find anyone doing the action of the people of Loot (i.e. sodomy), then kill the doer and the one to whom it is done." [Narrated by Ahl as-Sunan and authenticated by Imaam ibn Hibbaan and Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, and its Isnaad (chain of narrators) is authentic according to the conditions of Imaam al-Bukhaari.]

Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said:

لعن الله من عمل عمل قوم لوط ، لعن الله من عمل عمل قوم لوط ، لعن الله من عمل عمل قوم لوط

"May Allaah curse the one who does the action of Qowm-e-Loot (i.e. sodomy). May Allaah curse the one who does the action of Qowm-e-Loot. May Allaah curse the one who does the action of Qowm-e-Loot."

[Note: There are some people who claim that Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم never cursed anyone. As you can see from the above Hadeeth, they are highly mistaken.]
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
12-26-2016, 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
@huzaifah ibn Adam, do you have actual arguments or are you just going to make quotes that support your fascist perspective?
Well, you're an Agnostic, so the post isn't for you. You wouldn't understand it. The post is for the Muslims to read so that they know what the actual ruling of Islaam is on this topic. You see, Muslims follow the Sahaabah (the Companions of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم), and this was the official verdict of the Sahaabah. So, case closed. There are no arguments to be had. Those who don't like it can leave Islaam and become Christians, or Agnostics like you. But Islaam will never change.
Reply

AabiruSabeel
12-26-2016, 11:39 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,



Can't an Islamic scholar call for the murder of homosexuals in peace? :hiding:

Peace
One thing to keep in mind is that Islamic rulings apply in Muslim lands.
Since your are neither a Muslim nor do you live in a Muslim country, you don't have to worry about it at all.

A Muslim nation is a sovereign nation. You don't have a right to interfere with the internal policies of a Muslim nation.
Reply

czgibson
12-27-2016, 12:13 AM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel
One thing to keep in mind is that Islamic rulings apply in Muslim lands.
Since your are neither a Muslim nor do you live in a Muslim country, you don't have to worry about it at all.
Another thing to keep in mind is that we are all human beings, and homosexuals have in fact suffered violence and persecution at the hands of Muslims in the country where I live, following the teachings of people like your benighted "scholar", so I shall certainly not be afraid to register my opposition to such disgusting attitudes, thank you very much.

Peace
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
12-27-2016, 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,



Another thing to keep in mind is that we are all human beings, and homosexuals have in fact suffered violence and persecution at the hands of Muslims in the country where I live, following the teachings of people like your benighted "scholar", so I shall certainly not be afraid to register my opposition to such disgusting attitudes, thank you very much.

Peace
Wrong. Those brothers generally do not accept the Ulamaa of today. But of course you wouldn't know that. They regard the contemporary Ulamaa as sell-outs and so do not rely on their rulings or "teachings". They read the Qur'aan and Ahaadeeth themselves. That's why, no matter how many times the "scholars for dollars" howl like dogs on a street-corner after some attack has been carried out, it won't affect them or their actions, because in the first place they really don't care what any contemporary "scholar" has to say.
Reply

Search
12-27-2016, 12:24 AM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

Another thing to keep in mind is that we are all human beings, and homosexuals have in fact suffered violence and persecution at the hands of Muslims in the country where I live, following the teachings of people like your benighted "scholar", so I shall certainly not be afraid to register my opposition to such disgusting attitudes, thank you very much.

Peace
I don't mind you registering your opposition. However, to say that vigilante violence is accounted due to anyone but the individuals themselves is incorrect. And let's remember we've already had this debate on homosexuality and Islam.
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
12-27-2016, 12:29 AM
Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
People like you are the reason why I am questioning my faith.
No one will have an excuse on the Day of Judgement, and no one will get away with blaming someone else. Everyone is responsible for themselves. Even Iblees on that day will say, "Don't blame me, blame yourselves. I simply called you and you followed me." There are no excuses. Someone who dies as a Kaafir will end up in Jahannam, and they can blame the whole world and everyone in it for that, but it won't change anything. Even in this world, people who are forever going around blaming everyone else for their own failures are regarded as useless.

Stop blaming everyone else. The world isn't there to spoon-feed you. You will answer for yourself. Everyone will be in their Qabr (grave) by themselves. Answer for themselves. Face the consequences of their words and actions by themselves.
Reply

fromelsewhere
12-27-2016, 12:32 AM
Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel
One thing to keep in mind is that Islamic rulings apply in Muslim lands.
Since your are neither a Muslim nor do you live in a Muslim country, you don't have to worry about it at all.

A Muslim nation is a sovereign nation. You don't have a right to interfere with the internal policies of a Muslim nation.
Yes, we have good reasons to worry about it all because it affects us all (or it eventually will)... what goes around comes around.
Either way, non-Muslims have Muslims living in their communities, they have Muslim friends and neighbours, hell, they are potential Muslims themselves. So they have every right to disagree and voice their opinions.
Reply

czgibson
12-27-2016, 12:55 AM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)



I don't mind you registering your opposition. However, to say that vigilante violence is accounted due to anyone but the individuals themselves is incorrect. And let's remember we've already had this debate on homosexuality and Islam.
And I see plenty more evidence in this thread supporting my side of that debate. I say Islamic teachings cause people to hate homosexuals. How could it be clearer? We have an Islamic "scholar" here openly calling for the murder of gay people. Is it completely beyond the bounds of possibility that his words have caused frabgas to feel emboldened and to launch an attack on me as if I were a gay person? Can you not feel the hatred emanating from his words?

(Thanks to you, Search, for your characteristically eloquent defence of my right to an opinion. Your obvious goodness shines amongst the hate we've seen displayed tonight. Phew! What an evening it's been!)

Peace
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
12-27-2016, 01:02 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
I say Islamic teachings cause people to hate homosexuals.
Originally Posted by czgibson
I say Islamic teachings cause people to hate homosexuals.
Originally Posted by czgibson
I say Islamic teachings cause people to hate homosexuals.
Originally Posted by czgibson
Islamic teachings cause people to hate homosexuals.
Originally Posted by czgibson
Islamic teachings
The cat is out of the bag.

It's Islaam itself that you're against, not any "scholar". You can say what you want now to deny that, only fools would fall for it. Islaam itself is against gays, so you are against Islaam. It's as simple as that.
Reply

czgibson
12-27-2016, 01:04 AM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
The cat is out of the bag.

It's Islaam itself that you're against, not any "scholar". You can say what you want now to deny that, only fools would fall for it. Islaam itself is against gays, so you are against Islaam. It's as simple as that.
I have never denied it. I think it's reasonably well known amongst the forum staff that I'm opposed to various Islamic teachings.

I'm an atheist. Have you only just noticed?

Peace
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
12-27-2016, 01:11 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,



I have never denied it. I think it's reasonably well known amongst the forum staff that I'm opposed to various Islamic teachings.

I'm an atheist. Have you only just noticed?

Peace
More than that.

You hate Islaam just as much as Trump does. You may deny it, but you yourself believe in Bush's "Us or Them" policy.

It's entirely logical. "Us or Them". No grey areas.
Reply

fromelsewhere
12-27-2016, 01:11 AM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
The cat is out of the bag.

It's Islaam itself that you're against, not any "scholar". You can say what you want now to deny that, only fools would fall for it. Islaam itself is against gays, so you are against Islaam. It's as simple as that.
Calm down dude.
I say Islam prohibits homosexuality, but that is NOT an excuse to hate on gay people. If you believe in Islam, then don't be gay. If there are people around you who are gay and/or don't believe in Islam, why does it bother you? They will burn in hell for the rest of eternity anyways, no?

EDIT: I just wish to make clear that I seriously doubt that people who are non-believers and/or who are gay will burn in hell for the rest of eternity.
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
12-27-2016, 01:13 AM
Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Calm down dude.
I say Islam prohibits homosexuality, but that is NOT an excuse to hate on gay people. If you believe in Islam, then don't be gay. If there are people around you who are gay and/or don't believe in Islam, why does it bother you? They will burn in hell for the rest of eternity anyways, no?
Who's bothered? I don't worry about what will happen to them. The thing is, Nahi `anil Munkar is the duty of every person, especially those who have studied the Deen. They must speak out against evil. I came on this thread and posted the ruling the Sahaahah gave regarding sodomites and how they were dealt with. That is what you are referring to as "hating on gay people". It is simply a matter of speaking the Haqq. I am never "bothered". We speak the Haqq (Truth). Those who like it like it and those who don't like it don't like it. Our duty is just to deliver the message.

Like a deliveryman.
Reply

czgibson
12-27-2016, 01:18 AM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
More than that.

You hate Islaam just as much as Trump does. You may deny it, but you yourself believe in Bush's "Us or Them" policy.

It's entirely logical. "Us or Them". No grey areas.
For one thing, I know far more about Islam than Trump does. I've lived with Muslims, taught Muslims, and had very good Muslim friends. I've also spent eleven years on this board learning about Islam, and there are many positive things I could say about the religion.

As with so many matters, the picture is not as simple as you seem to imagine.

Peace
Reply

Search
12-27-2016, 01:21 AM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

And I see plenty more evidence in this thread supporting my side of that debate. I say Islamic teachings cause people to hate homosexuals. How could it be clearer? We have an Islamic "scholar" here openly calling for the murder of gay people. Is it completely beyond the bounds of possibility that his words have caused frabgas to feel emboldened and to launch an attack on me as if I were a gay person? Can you not feel the hatred emanating from his words?
To answer you, while I feel the hatred emanating from some of words written tonight, I have two things to say about that which I've already said to him in this thread about the tongue: 1) His words are his own responsibility for which he will be judged. 2) What he as an individual says or does is not representation of Islam.

On IB, you've been long here enough to know that we're a collection of individuals within Islam. I have never, for example, denied the existence of zealots among us or indeed any communities that ascribe themselves to a religion; but what I've denied is that that that that zealotism is the valid interpretation of Islam.

I am a Muslim. I don't believe Islam teaches any person to hate any sinner but the sin. I know I don't hate homosexuals. And I doubt I ever will. However, that also does not mean that we do not inform people that homosexual acts are considered a sin and the person who exerts self-control over himself/herself enough to master desires in this vein for the sake of God will attain a higher level in Paradise than someone who didn't similarly struggle. Because this is a form of jihad (struggle) against the desires of the self. And while I may never understand someone's struggle with a specific sin, I do understand what it is like to struggle as all human beings struggle in some way or the other against themselves in one way or another.

And contrary to the two most explosive threads of tonight, most Muslims live their lives out daily just as the majority of non-Muslims would. As a rule, no Muslim strives to wonder about the sexuality or sexual lives of people as to what they are doing with whom in the bedroom as that is an invasion of someone's privacy which is naturally abhorrent to us not only as decent human beings but as Muslims who're explicitly taught in the Qur'an to avoid negative assumption and suspicion: "O you who have believed, avoid much [negative] assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other" (Qur'an 49:12).

I came in later onto some of the threads. However, I have a question. Can you as one person be said to have views that represent the entire population of U.K.? No, right? Similarly, even brother Hufaizah's views cannot be said to represent the views of the entire Muslim population specific to the entire range of things we've discussed in different threads over time.

(Thanks to you, Search, for your characteristically eloquent defence of my right to an opinion. Your obvious goodness shines amongst the hate we've seen displayed tonight. Phew! What an evening it's been!)
I really don't need thanks for doing the right thing; I would have done it regardless. However, I do have a request to make: And that request is not only for you but also @fromelsewhere which is to not broad-brush us as a community nor Islam.
Reply

Zafran
12-27-2016, 01:26 AM
So is this thread hot topic again because George Micheal passed away?
Reply

Search
12-27-2016, 01:29 AM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)


Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
The cat is out of the bag.

It's Islaam itself that you're against, not any "scholar". You can say what you want now to deny that, only fools would fall for it. Islaam itself is against gays, so you are against Islaam. It's as simple as that.
Like I once told you, I have immense respect for you in terms of the striving you're doing to gain knowledge of this religion. However, again and again, over the time I've spent on IB, I have observed that you are devoid of any wisdom in your approach and quick to judgment. Neither of those things are considered desirable in Islam; when you as a scholar fail to engage in self-modulation and be wise about what words you say, laypersons like @fragbas are definitely emboldened in specific respects.

Recently, in a thread, you advised a sister who was struggling with potential lesbianism in a very well-mannered and very wise way. Therefore, I do know that you definitely have the capacity to exercise wisdom and good judgment; and therefore, I fail to understand the times that you fail to exercise both like today in both threads.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
Reply

fromelsewhere
12-27-2016, 01:40 AM
Originally Posted by Search
I really don't need thanks for doing the right thing; I would have done it regardless. However, I do have a request to make: And that request is not only for you but also @fromelsewhere which is to not broad-brush us as a community nor Islam.
There is no broad-brushing of the Muslim community or Islam on my part. I am pretty sure that @czgibson doesn't neither. But we (and you as well I believe) take issue with zealous views, and unfortunately, some scholars have said things that are easy for zealots to take as evidence that "this is what needs to be done."
I certainly don't believe that @Hufaizah ibn Adam's views represent the views of "the Muslim population" or even a substantial minority for that matter, but I do dispute his views very strongly because I am afraid that these kinds of zealot views might become widespread, not just in the Muslim community but in other communities as well. And all it takes is one idiot in a thousand for there to be big problems in the world. These kinds of views can be easily read by kids online who may get the wrong idea of what Islam is about or what the Muslim community stands for.
Reply

*charisma*
12-27-2016, 02:08 AM
Seriously guys, this topic is beating a dead horse. Sigh.

Muslims have to learn their deen, and stick to their truth regardless of the tribulations they face. So if someone who is gay is looking in here, simply put, it's not allowed and this is your trial. As muslims we have to hate homosexuality because it's hated by Allah swt, but at the same time we need to know enough about the topic in order to help those who want to be helped (as you can see from how frequent this topic comes up). So when someone comes in here and it says "kill homosexuals" there has to be a clear understanding of what this means because this is detrimental to those who are ignorant, overzealous, and with a weak faith It's incumbent that we learn our deen properly and we know what to love and hate, but also character and manners are a big deal too (without sugarcoating the truth), and that can make a world of a difference for someone who is seeking help and understanding. It should not push them away from the deen. I don't think homosexuals in general are maltreated by Muslims because simply put, it's none of our business. Our business is to make sure that we are doing what is correct, and to help create an environment or be in one that is Islamically acceptable for us to live in.
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
12-27-2016, 10:52 AM
Originally Posted by fromelsewhere
Hufaizah ibn Adam
Who is "Hufaizah ibn Adam"? I've heard that name twice now in this thread.
Reply

frabgas27
12-27-2016, 10:54 AM
Originally Posted by huzaifah ibn adam
who is "hufaizah ibn adam"? I've heard that name twice now in this thread.
looooool
Reply

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