What does it mean when men say they want a submissive wife

[EgyptPrincess]

I saw a thread on another forum about wives and husbands and a lot of women want pious husbands but a lot of men want submissive wives. What does this mean in terms of marriage? Just do everything the husband says? ^o)

[Bhabha]

I only submit to Allah.... Maybe that's what they mean? Someone who follows what اللهُ has ordained ?

[Freedom]

Submissive wife is one that acknowledges authority is with the man and obeys.

[ardianto]

I didn't consider submissive woman when I was seeking for a wife in the past. Now after I am being widower, I still do not consider submissive woman if I decide to remarry. I have learned from older men experiences.

Submissive woman indeed, always obey the husband. But she also has big weakness, she is not good in taking initiative, and really depend on order. It makes her not able to give input, advice, and support when the husband need it. That's why mostly of husbands of submissive wives who I know later take second wife.

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[EgyptPrincess]

Submissive wife is one that acknowledges authority is with the man and obeys.

Is there a limit to this authority? For example if he tells me to do something like wash the dishes or wash some clothes but I am busy or tired or just not in the mood, is it out to say no and then to explain your reason why you can't / don't want to do it? Are husbands that want submissive wives open to the wife saying no occasionally?

[Freedom]

Is there a limit to this authority? For example if he tells me to do something like wash the dishes or wash some clothes but I am busy or tired or just not in the mood, is it out to say no and then to explain your reason why you can't / don't want to do it? Are husbands that want submissive wives open to the wife saying no occasionally?

Being dominant/having authority doesn't mean one is not understanding. I wouldn't see it is as a problem if she is too tired to do something or is busy, however if she never wants to wash my clothes, then that is a BIG problem.

[Bhabha]

Being dominant/having authority doesn't mean one is not understanding. I wouldn't see it is as a problem if she is too tired to do something or is busy, however if she never wants to wash my clothes, then that is a BIG problem.

Wow, sexist much?

If she never wants to wash your clothes... really?

[Freedom]

Wow, sexist much?

If she never wants to wash your clothes... really?

Don't throw those buzzwords at me. They don't intimidate me.

[EgyptPrincess]

however if she never wants to wash my clothes, then that is a BIG problem.

@Bhabha I think what he means is as he works all day, he expects the wife to fulfil her [work] such as cleaning and washing the clothes so if she never does it then that would kind of be the same as the husband never going to work, thus unable to bring in income. Right Freedom?

So he goes to work and brings in the cash, she [goes to work] and keeps the house in order. It's my general understanding. I just wanted to get a better understanding of the expectancy of [do this, do that] orders. As in do you expect her to do as you ask every single time or are you open to accepting no if there is some reason why she cannot?

Not you personally, I just mean men in general who want submissive wives.

[Freedom]

@Bhabha I think what he means is as he works all day, he expects the wife to fulfil her [work] such as cleaning and washing the clothes so if she never does it then that would kind of be the same as the husband never going to work, thus unable to bring in income. Right Freedom?

So he goes to work and brings in the cash, she [goes to work] and keeps the house in order. It's my general understanding. I just wanted to get a better understanding of the expectancy of [do this, do that] orders. As in do you expect her to do as you ask every single time or are you open to accepting no if there is some reason why she cannot?

Not you personally, I just mean men in general who want submissive wives.

Pretty much that, but she went full SJW on me and didn't even give me a chance to explain further myself.

[strivingobserver98]

Submissive woman indeed, always obey the husband. But she also has big weakness, she is not good in taking initiative, and really depend on order. It makes her not able to give input, advice, and support when the husband need it.

Reminds me of a beautiful Quote I read today :). The opposite of submissive women...

Regarding Strong Women:

“Khadija was a great teacher; she has such a maqaam in our religion. She taught the Prophet :saws: who he was; she was the one who elevated him in his esteem. When he had self doubt she said no. You can see that when the Prophet :saws: married Aisha he had no fear of strong women. Theres a lot of men who fear strong women, who want them to be wallflowers. Whereas with the Prophet :saws:, that’s not the type of people he encouraged. His wives were women who talked back, and the reason he wasn’t afraid was because khadija was his first wife. She was a women of the world. She knew the world, and she was completely self confident. That’s a sunnah of our Prophet :saws:, to elevate women”.

~ Shaykh Hamza Yusuf.

[Misbah0411]

Another problem within the Ummah is that secular feminism has infiltrated the ranks of the sisters unfortunately and you can see it here with some of the forum members.

[Bhabha]

Sorry but as argued before the duty of the wife is not to be a cleaner !!!!!!

[Bhabha]

Pretty much that, but she went full SJW on me and didn't even give me a chance to explain further myself.

What is SJW?

[Freedom]

What is SJW?

Google is your friend

[ardianto]

Google is your friend

According to Google, SJW is a cement factory in Indonesia with investor from Thailand.

But, what is correlation between cement and marriage?.

[Bhabha]

According to Google, SJW is a cement factory in Indonesia with investor from Thailand.

But, what is correlation between cement and marriage?.

Some marriages can be like cement D:

[fschmidt]

What is SJW?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SJW

These are people who fight for modern culture. In other words, they fight for evil.

[Abz2000]

Book 009, Number 3507:
'Umar b. al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) reported: When Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) kept himself away from his wives, I entered the mosque, and found people striking the ground with pebblesand saying: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has divorced his wives, and that was before they were commanded to observe seclusion 'Umar said to himself: I must find this (actual position) today.

So I went to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) and said (to her): Daughter of Abu Bakr, have you gone to the extent of giving trouble to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? Thereupon she said: Son of Khattab, you have nothing to do with me, and I have nothing to do with you. You should look to your own receptacle. He ('Umar) said: I visited Hafsa daughter of 'Umar, and said to her: Hafsa, the (news) has reached me that you cause Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) trouble. You know that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) does not love you, and had I not been (your father) he would have divorced you. (On hearing this) she wept bitterly. I said to her: Where is Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? Shesaid: He is in the attic room.

I went in and found Rabah, the servant of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), sitting on the thresholds of the window dangling his feet on the hollow wood of the date-palm with the help of which Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) climbed (to the apartment) and came down.
I cried: 0 Rabah, seek permission for me from Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him). Rabah cast a glance at the apartment and then looked toward me but said nothing. I again said: Rabah, seek permission for me from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). Rabah looked towards the apartment and then cast a glance at me, but said nothig.

I then raised my voice and said: 0 Rabah, seek permission for me from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him).

I think that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) is under the impression that I have come for the sake of Hafsa. By Allah, if Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) would command me to strike her neck, I would certainly strike her neck.

I raised my voice and he pointed me to climb up (and get into his apartment). I visited Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he was lying on a mat. I sat down and he drew up his lower garment over him and he had nothing (else) over him, and that the mat had left its marks on his sides. I looked with my eyes in the store room of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). I found only a handful of barley equal to one sa' and an equal quantity of the leaves of Mimosa Flava placed in the nook of the cell, and a semi-tanned leather bag hanging (in one side), and I was moved to tears (on seeing this extremely austere living of the Holy Piophet), and he said: Ibn Khattab, what wakes you weep?

I said: Apostle of Allah, why should I not shed tears? This mat has left its marks on your sides and I do not see in your store room (except these few things) that I have seen; Ceasar and Closroes are leading their lives in plenty whereas you are Allah's Messenger. His chosen one, and that is your store!
He said: Ibn Khattab, aren't you satisfied that for us (there should be the prosperity) of the Hereafter, and for them (there should be the prosperity of) this world? I said: Yes. And as I had entered I had seen the signs of anger on his face, and I therefore, said: Messenger of Allah, what trouble do you feel from your wives, and if youhave divorced them, verily Allah is with you, His angels, Gabriel, Mika'il, I and Abu Bakr and the believers are with you. And seldom I talked and (which I uttered on that day) I hoped that Allah would testify to my words that I uttered. And so the verse of option (Ayat al-Takhyir) was revealed. Maybe his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you..." (Ixv. 5). And if you back up one another against him, then surely Allah is his Patron, and Gabriel and the righteous believers, and the angels after that are the aidera (lvi. 4). And it was 'A'isha, daughter of Abu Bakr, and Hafsa who had prevailed upon all the wives of Allah's Prophet (way peace be upon him) for (pressing them for mote money). I said: Messenger of Allah, have you divorced them? He said: No. I said: Messenger of Allah, I entered the mosque and found the Muslims playing with pebbles (absorbed in thought) and saying: Allah's Messenger has divorced his wives. Should I get down and inform there that you have not divorced them? He said: Yes, if you so like. And I went on talking to him until I (found) the signs of anger disappeared on his face and (his seriousness was changed to a happy mood and as a result thereof) his face had the natural tranquillity upon it and he laughed and his teeth were the most charming (among the teeth) of all people. Then Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) climbed down and I also climbed down and catching hold of the wood of the palm-tree and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came down (with such ease) as if he was walking on the ground, not touching anything with his hand (to get support). I said: Messenger of Allah, you remained in your apartment for twenty-nine days. He said: (At times) the month consists of twenty-nine days. I stood at the door of the mosque and I called out at the top of my voice: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) has not divorced his wives (and it was on this occasion that this) verse was revealed:" And if any matter pertaining to peace or alarm comes within their ken, they broadcast it; whereas, if they would refer it to the Apostle and those who have been entrusted with authority amongst them, those of them who are engaged in obtaining intelligence would indeed know (what to do with) it" (iv 83). And it was I who understood this matter, and Allah revealed the verse pertaining to option (given to the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him in regard to the retaining or divorcing of his wives)



------------

Book 009, Number 3511:


Ibn 'Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) reported. I had always been anxious to ask 'Umar (Allah be pleased with him) about the two ladies amongst the wives of Allah's Prophet (may peace be upon Lim) about whom Allah, the Exalted, said:" If you both turn in repentance to Allah, then indeed your hearts are inclined (to this)" (Ixvi. 4), until 'Umar (Allah be pleased with him) set out for Hajj and I also went along with him. And as we were going along a path, 'Umar (Allah be pleased with hiyn) went aside and I also went aside with him with a jug (of water). He answered the call of nature, and then came to me and I poured water over his hands and he performed ablution I said: Commander of the Faithful, who are the two ladies amongst the wives of Allah's Prophet (may peace be upon him) about whom Allah, the Exalted and Majestic, said: 'If you both turn to Allah in repentance, then indeed your heart are inclined to it"? 'Umar (Allah he pleased with him) said: How strange is it for you, Ibn 'Abbas! (Zuhri said: By Allah, he disliked what he asked about, but did not keep it a secret.) He ('Umar) said: They are Hafsa and 'A'isha; and he then began to narrate the hadith and said:

We were such people among the Quraish who dominated women, and as we reached Medina we found there people who were dominated by their women, and our women began to learn (the habits) of their women.
He further said: And my house was situated in the suburb of Aledina in the tribe of Banu Umayya b. Zaid.

One day I became angry with my wife and she retorted upon me. I did not like that she should retort upon me. She said: You disapprove of my retorting upon you By Allah, the wives of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) retort upon him, and one of them detaches herself from him for the day until the night. So I ('Umar) went out and visited Hafsa and said: Do you retort upon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? She said: Yes. I said; Does any one of you detach herself from him from the day to the night? She said: Yes. He said: She who did like it amongst you in fact failed and incurred loss. Does everyone amongst you not fear the wrath of Allah upon her due to the wrath of His Messenger (may peace be upon him), and (as a result thereof) she may perish? So do not retort upon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and do not ask him for anything, but ask me that which you desire, (and the frank behaviour) of your companion may not mislead you, if she is more graceful and is dearer to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) than you (meaning 'A'isha) (Allah be pleased with her).

He (Hadrat 'Umar further) said: I had a compalaion from the Ansar and, we used to remain in the company of the Messenger (may peace be upon him) turn by turn. He remained there for a day while I remained there on the other day, and he brought me the news about the revelation and other (matter), and I brought him (the news) like this. And we discussed that the Ghassanids were shoeing the horses in order to attack us. Id y companion once attended (the Apostle). and then came to me at night and knocked at my door and called me, and I came out to him, and he said: A matter of great importance has happened. I said: What is that? Have the Ghassanids come? He said: No, but even more serious and more significant than that: the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) has divorced his wives. I said: Hafsa has failed and has incurred loss. and I feared that it would happen. When it was dawn I observed the dawn prayer and dressed myself, and then came there (in the house of the Holy Prophet) and visited Hafsa, and she was weeping. I said: Has Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) divorced you (all)? She said: I do not know. He has, however, separated himself in his attic. I came to a black servant and said to him: Seek permission for 'Umar. He went in and then came to me and said: I made mention of you to him, but he kept quiet. I then went to the pulpit and sat there, and there was a group of people sitting by it and some of then were weeping.

I sat there for some time, until I was overpowered (by that very idea) which was in my mind. I then came back to the boy and said to him: Seek permission for Umar. He went in and came to me and said: I made mention of you to him but he kept quiet. I was about to turn back when the boy called me and said: Go in; permission has been granted to you. I went in and greeted Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and he was reclining against the couch of mat and it had left its marks upon his side. I said: Messenger of Allah, have you divorced your wives? He raised his head towards me and said: No.

I said: Allah is the Greatest. Messenger of Allah, I wish if you had seen how we the people of Quraish had domination over women but when we came to Medina we found people whom their women dominated. So our women began to learn from their women. One dily I became angry with my wife and she began to retort upon me. I did not approve that she should retort upon me. She said: You do not like that I should retort upon you, but, by Allah. the wives of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) retort upon him and any one of them separates herself from him for a day until night. I said: He who did that amongst them in fact failed and incurred loss. Does any of them feel sate from the wrath of Allahupon her due to the wrath of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and she has certainly perished. Allah's Messtnger (may peace be upon him) smiled, I said: Messenger of Allah, I visited Hafsa and said: (The behaviour) of your companion ('A'isha) may not mislead you, If she is more graceful than you and is dearer to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) than you.

Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled for the second time. I said: Allah's Messenger, way I talk to you about agreeable things? He said: Yes. I sat down and lifted my head (to see things) in the house and, by Allah, I did not see anything significant besides three hides. I said: Messenger of Allah, supplicate the Lord that He should make (life) prosperous for your Ummah as He has made plentiful for the people of Persia and Rome (in spite of the fact) that they do no, worship Allah, the Exalted and Majestic, whereupon he (Allah's Messenger) sat up an I then said: Ibn Khattab, do you doubt that they are a nation whom their nice things have been given immediately in the life of this world. I said: Allah's Messenger! seek pardon for me. And he (Allah's Messenger) had taken an oath that he would not visit them for a month due to extreme annoyance with them until Allah showed His displeasure to him (Allah's Messenger). Zuhri said: 'Urwa informed me that 'A'Isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: When twenty-nine nights were over, Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) visited me, and he began (his visit) with me. I said: Messenger of Allah, you had taken an oath that you would not visit us for a month, while you have visited after I have counted only twenty-nine (nights). Thereupon he said: The month may also be of twenty-nine (days). He then said: 'A'isha, I am going to talk to you about a matter, and you should not be hasty in it (and do not give your final decision) until you have consulted your parents. He then recited this verse to me:" O Prophet, say to your wives" till he reached" mighty reward" (xxxiii. 28). 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: By Allah, he knew that my parents would not allow me to separate from him. I said: Is there any need to consult my parents in this matter? I in fact choose Allah and His Messenger (may peace be upon him) and the abode in the Hereafter. Ma'mar said: Ayyub reported to me that 'A'isha said: Don't inform your wives that I have chosen you, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Verily Allah has sent me as a conveyer of message, and He has not sent me as a source of hardship (to others). Qatada said:" Saghat qulubukum" means" Your hearts have inclined."

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religiou...im/009-smt.php

[Bhabha]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SJW

These are people who fight for modern culture. In other words, they fight for evil.

Modern culture created and fed on the inferior/superior binaries to make people submissive to one another. Modern culture is the one that does not view equality, but feeds on these binaries.

Do you believe your wife is inferior to you? Then perhaps you are the harbinger of modernity.

[fschmidt]

Modern culture created and fed on the inferior/superior binaries to make people submissive to one another. Modern culture is the one that does not view equality, but feeds on these binaries.

I am not sure what this means. I do believe that there are superior and inferior cultures. A culture that sincerely tries to follow God is superior to a culture that worships evil. And it seems to be the natural cycle of cultures that first they worship God (in some approximation), then they become successful as a result, then their wealth corrupts them and they become evil and forget God, and then they decay. Christian culture is now at the end of this cycle.

Do you believe your wife is inferior to you? Then perhaps you are the harbinger of modernity.

No. But the question of submission is interesting and I don't know the Islamic view on this. Christianity teaches that a wife should submit to her husband. But the Old Testament doesn't teach this at all, and marriage seems more like a partnership. Just look at Rebecca and Isaac. Rebecca wasn't submissive at all.

[Bhabha]

I am not sure what this means. I do believe that there are superior and inferior cultures. A culture that sincerely tries to follow God is superior to a culture that worships evil. And it seems to be the natural cycle of cultures that first they worship God (in some approximation), then they become successful as a result, then their wealth corrupts them and they become evil and forget God, and then they decay. Christian culture is now at the end of this cycle.



No. But the question of submission is interesting and I don't know the Islamic view on this. Christianity teaches that a wife should submit to her husband. But the Old Testament doesn't teach this at all, and marriage seems more like a partnership. Just look at Rebecca and Isaac. Rebecca wasn't submissive at all.

Well the superior and inferior refers to treatment. Modernity, is based on actually using this binary to construct sort of dominant culture regimes that exert their power over others and suppress them.

For example when Spain was governed by Islam, it didn't diminish the status of Christians and Jews by dictating to them the positions of trade, or business or made them feel inferior. Islam was used as the basis for governing of course, but Islam was never used as a weapon to control people and to make them feel as though their self worth was diminished. When Christian Spain emerged, religious doctrine was used to control people and to categorize the Muslims and the Jews as actual problems that needed to be "controlled" and dominated. See that difference ?

If you are indeed superior, you do not need to exert that superiority to control and diminish other people's worth. You used that superiority with wisdom and kindness.

Modernity with the expansion and creation of colonies used a dialogue of superior / inferior to make people feel like their worth was diminished and in order to justify that kind of colonial governance. Islamic expansion never did that, even as it expanded into regions it did not change the actual legal structure of places but was rather lenient. There's of course no denying that there were cases of slavery and things like that still present in the cultural milieu, but people were not mental or emotional "slaves" because they were not constructed as inferior to Islam. If you know what I mean. For example, if people converted to Islam they became free and were able to function in the social context, the racial issue was never used as a means to limit people from political office. This is different in the Christian expansion, where slavery was so abundant regardless of people becoming Christians and where new born Christians were still considered inferior to those who were drawn as "natural" Christians.

This is what I mean [emoji39]

Instead of asking for a submissive wife, ask for a wife who will be kind, respectful and considerate. Just like a husband should be kind, respectful and considerate. Not a dominating husband, not a submissive wife. This is not a master or slave relationship. Both have rights and responsibilities towards each other.

[Serinity]

:salam:

Look, it is like this.

Assume this:

The husband goes to work 6:00 AM in the morning, and the wife is inside. The husband comes home at 8:00 PM demanding the wife to do some house work. But she doesn't saying "you did nothing! stop ordering me around! you sexist!" the husband not wanting any argument does the whole house - double work.

2nd scenario:

The husband and wife goes to work at 6 AM. They both arrive around 7-8 PM. They have an argument on who's job it is to do the housework. The husband says it is your job, the wife says "I am not your slave"

3rd scenario:


The wife goes to work 6:00 AM in the morning, and the husband is inside. The wife comes home at 8:00 PM demanding the husband to do some house work. But he doesn't saying "you did nothing! stop ordering me around!" the wife not wanting any argument does the whole house - double work.


Now. The maintainer and the one who brings in the food and works, etc. Should be the husband. The wife should be the one doing the houseworker.

Lets take out all our opinions aside, and see what Allah SWT says, cause I am sure that Allah SWT didn't create us equal in our abilities.

Men are better at working, women better at their emotions and with the kids.

Did Khadeeja r.a. work? yes (afaik) . Did she compete with men? I don't think so.

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said any wrong. Ameen.
Anyone?

[Bhabha]

Scenario number 4. Husband and wife hire a maid to come and clean their home while they are both away and someone to come and cook for them. They both come home and find a clean house and food ready to eat.

Scenario 5. They both get up in the morning and help clean each other's mess and to help in the kitchen to cook. Husband makes coffee, wife makes the eggs. Both get dressed and don't live like pigs and make sure that where they make a mess, they clean. Husband and wife come home and husband cuts the vegetables, while wife makes the pasta and puts out the dishes. Wife makes the salad and puts the food on the table. Husband washes dishes. Both are happy and can sit and talk with some nice tea and read a book. :)

See how both are partners? Caring for each other? See how both help each other? If the wife works and the husband works both help. If the wife works and makes more money, she can hire a maid to clean with her and her husband can be the maintainer of the home. If husband doesn't have enough money to help with a maid, why would he prevent his wife to work in order to help? If husband has enough money to lessen the load of the wife at home, why would he not hire a maid to come clean and lessen the load?

do you know how exhausting it is for a woman to care for children, clean the house, cook dinner AND STILL have energy to be sexually active with her husband? If the main duty of the wife is sexual gratification as Angels will be upset with her, how on earth can you expect her to do ALL and still have time for that?

She is doing the job of four people. Nanny, cook, cleaner and teacher. But she is still required to drop everything and sexually satisfy her husband. See how much you would have to pay for all of those four jobs and I guarantee you and the emotional, physical and mental burden where she can become restricted and depressed at home. A woman still has friends, hobbies and things she likes to do and enjoy.

[~ Sabr ~]

:salamext:

To be fair, me and my husband both work full time. I go home and cook and clean and wash dishes - if I ask my husband for help, he will help me.

Sometimes when I don't ask, he will still help me. Other times if he is really tired then he won't, that's understandable. :thumbs_up

Both husband and wife need to work it as to not hurt the other person's feelings. :love:

[ConcealedGem]

:salamext:

To be fair, me and my husband both work full time. I go home and cook and clean and wash dishes - if I ask my husband for help, he will help me.

Sometimes when I don't ask, he will still help me. Other times if he is really tired then he won't, that's understandable. :thumbs_up

Both husband and wife need to work it as to not hurt the other person's feelings. :love:

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Wow sis that's amazing to hear, you're like superwoman allahuma barik. :)

I don't think it's feasible to stay as a stay at home wife in the west.... Even though loads of people do it, I'm not sure... Living in the west I think it's kinda important for survival. Everything is so expensive nowadays, Allahu alam.

[ConcealedGem]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Wow sis that's amazing to hear, you're like superwoman allahuma barik. :)

I don't think it's feasible to stay as a stay at home wife in the west.... Even though loads of people do it, I'm not sure... Living in the west I think it's kinda important for survival. Everything is so expensive nowadays, Allahu alam.

Also..... Why waste talent or your education xD

[Cpt.America]

When it comes to marriage, it is best to look at how the Prophet Muhammad SAW treated his wives.
He was kind to them, helped with the housework, and listened to their arguments and opinions.
The wives of the Prophet SAW were very straight forward and unafraid to argue with him SAW, to the point where Umar RA scolded his daughter (who was one of the wives of the Prophet SAW) for arguing with the Prophet SAW. In that instance Umar RA was in the wrong, and his daughter was in the right.

Anyway, heres a video about the greatest love story ever told:

youtube.com/watch?v=vHTPLFUwEl4

[still not a full member :( ]

Also serinity, I am not sure what you mean by competing with men?
Khadija RA was an incredibly good business woman, and she became very wealthy from her trading.
Women in Islam are of course allowed to work and hold occupations.
I am not sure where competing with men comes into this.

[Misbah0411]

The wives of the Prophet SAW were very straight forward and unafraid to argue with him SAW, to the point where Umar RA scolded his daughter (who was one of the wives of the Prophet SAW) for arguing with the Prophet SAW. In that instance Umar RA was in the wrong, and his daughter was in the right.

It was more like warning Hafsa r.a. and reminding her that be careful with your friend Aisha r.a., since she is held more in esteem than you so don't be complicit in giving the Prophet s.a.a.w a hard time with her because you may be the one divorced.

[Serinity]

Idk where I was at.

But I don't see why a woman can't work provided she observes the Shariah. And holds her duties and rights.

[EgyptPrincess]

Oh how the tide is turning. Women are becoming more independent and I guess some men are worried that we'll be less reliant on them. Imagine you marry a man, he is the successful worker, he brings in the food, the clothes, the rent, the bills etc and then your marriage doesn't work out and you end up divorcing. The wife is left with nothing lol... she is completely at the mercy of her husband because she is like a child in terms of security. I wonder how many women tolerate physical abuse at the hands of their husbands because they have no choice but to accept it because they have nothing to fall back on. Madness.


Here's a question, when you have nikah can you then "get married" legally in your country, not at a church or anything, just at a registry office so that at least you now have some financial security? If the marriage doesn't work out 5 years down the line you get a divorce and now the woman is allowed some of the man's assets and money, usually half.

I guess some women like saying "yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir" but respect is extremely important and without respect or appreciation the husband will get the backhand ^o) :D

[noraina]

I've noticed sometimes when women start talking about their rights they get shouted down as feminists, lol. Well, if being a feminist is to support women's education and their right to get a career and contribute positively to the ummah, then I am one. ;)

Of course, the primary duty of the household expenses belongs to the husband, however if his wife wishes to and can help to support the house and children then that's amazing and she should. Sometimes it comes across that men can feel threatened if their wife is more educated than them and earning a higher wage - it shouldn't be that way because then it creates competition between a husband wife, marriage should be co-operation and teamwork. The idea of having more 'authority' or who is more important immediately creates divisions, when without either the house would be equally incomplete.

Nothing wrong with being a housewife, of course. :) My mother has never worked in her life, and I suppose if she did have a career she would never have been able to home-educate us. I suppose in future if I decided to home-school my kids I'd make the same decision, or work from home (which I want to anyway, lol).

[EgyptPrincess]

I've noticed sometimes when women start talking about their rights they get shouted down as feminists, lol. Well, if being a feminist is to support women's education and their right to get a career and contribute positively to the ummah, then I am one. ;)

Of course, the primary duty of the household expenses belongs to the husband, however if his wife wishes to and can help to support the house and children then that's amazing and she should. Sometimes it comes across that men can feel threatened if their wife is more educated than them and earning a higher wage - it shouldn't be that way because then it creates competition between a husband wife, marriage should be co-operation and teamwork. The idea of having more 'authority' or who is more important immediately creates divisions, when without either the house would be equally incomplete.

Nothing wrong with being a housewife, of course. :) My mother has never worked in her life, and I suppose if she did have a career she would never have been able to home-educate us. I suppose in future if I decided to home-school my kids I'd make the same decision, or work from home (which I want to anyway, lol).

Your mother has never worked a day in her life? Are you kidding me? She raised you from birth, fed you, washed you, washed your clothes, took care of the house, took you to and from school, nursed you when you were ill, make you favourite food, changed your bed and made you into the woman you are today :) She's probably [worked] more than her husband.

Of course if none of this is true then I take my statement back hehe. I totally agree with what you said though, there should be no "authority" over each other, both contribute to a healthy stable household / family and both should treat each other with respect and dignity ;)

[Cpt.America]

Oh how the tide is turning. Women are becoming more independent and I guess some men are worried that we'll be less reliant on them. Imagine you marry a man, he is the successful worker, he brings in the food, the clothes, the rent, the bills etc and then your marriage doesn't work out and you end up divorcing. The wife is left with nothing lol... she is completely at the mercy of her husband because she is like a child in terms of security. I wonder how many women tolerate physical abuse at the hands of their husbands because they have no choice but to accept it because they have nothing to fall back on. Madness.


Here's a question, when you have nikah can you then "get married" legally in your country, not at a church or anything, just at a registry office so that at least you now have some financial security? If the marriage doesn't work out 5 years down the line you get a divorce and now the woman is allowed some of the man's assets and money, usually half.

I guess some women like saying "yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir" but respect is extremely important and without respect or appreciation the husband will get the backhand ^o) :D

Even in a situation like this where the wife is a home maker, she (is supposed to) have a family and a community to fall back on for support. Unfortunately in most cases culture supersedes religion for people, and instead of looking at how the Prophet SAW and his Sahabah lived and instead of consulting the Quran and sunnah, most communities urge women to stay in abusive relationships with nonpracticing cruel tyrannical men who call themselves Muslim.

Straight up, if my sister's husband is a man who doesn't pray salaat (same if her were abusive etc) I would advise her to divorce him.
Religious reasons aside,
A man who has no fear of Allah, has no guarantee to treat his spouse with her due respect and rights if he should 'fall out of love' or become enraged at her or bored for whatever reason.
But a man who has love and fear of Allah, will always treat his spouse with her due rights and respects no matter what frustrations come up for a moment between them, and no matter how annoyed they are at one another.
A man who loves Allah, loves His Prophet SAW, and will seek to emulate his SAW's life,

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) enjoined kind treatment and honouring of one’s wife, and he described the best of people as those who are best to their wives. He said: “The best of you are those who are the best to their wives, and I am the best of you to my wives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895


sunnahonline.com/library/purification-of-the-soul/194-best-of-the-best-the

islamqa.info/en/41199

Wives have a right upon their husbands and husbands have a right upon their wives, it is fine for us right to remind our better halves of the rights we are due, but we should remember the rights that we owe them first.

And as for the men amongst us who pray salaat but abuse others, we must remember that praying salaat doesn't make us good Muslims, it simply makes us the most basic level of Muslim.

Ibn Maajah (4245) narrated from Thawbaan (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “I certainly know people of my ummah who will come on the Day of Resurrection with good deeds like the mountains of Tihaamah, but Allaah will make them like scattered dust.” Thawbaan said: O Messenger of Allaah, describe them to us and tell us more, so that we will not become of them unknowingly. He said: “They are your brothers and from your race, worshipping at night as you do, but they will be people who, when they are alone, transgress the sacred limits of Allaah.”

islamqa.info/en/135707


A mans piety is the most important thing for a woman to consider when deciding to get married (same vice versa)
And the best clue to how a man will treat you is to see how he treats his mother and his sisters.

[noraina]

Your mother has never worked a day in her life? Are you kidding me? She raised you from birth, fed you, washed you, washed your clothes, took care of the house, took you to and from school, nursed you when you were ill, make you favourite food, changed your bed and made you into the woman you are today She's probably [worked] more than her husband.

Lol, so true sis. I should have worded it differently, ;) alhamdulillah my mother has worked 24/7 without a day off in her life, she is such an inspiration and role model, and I just pray I can be a fraction as good as she was as a mother and teacher and friend. I did an exam today and I come back and she's made me my favourite meal for working so hard :cry:, yep that so made me cry.

Tis' true, why heaven is at the feet of your mother subhanAllah, may Allah swt give all mothers the highest station in Jannah.

[Bhabha]

Cpt.America are you married? Excuse my random question [emoji39]

[Cpt.America]

Cpt.America are you married? Excuse my random question [emoji39]

It's cool fam.
I am not.

Edit:
BUT I AM A FULL MEMBER NOW! WOOT!
lol Alhamdulillah.

[Bhabha]

It's cool fam.
I am not.

Edit:
BUT I AM A FULL MEMBER NOW! WOOT!
lol Alhamdulillah.

Well, your future wife will be a blessed woman! :P

[Serinity]

Well, in a family there should be a head, an authority. No authority? No head, no structure.

[piXie]

What does it mean when men say they want a submissive wife

As far as I understand this, it means they don't want someone who is argumentative.

Just do everything the husband says? ^o)

There is a huge difference between obeying/respecting your husband and being a door mat. ^o)

[Serinity]

I want a wife who can talk back.. But also have some understanding. It'd be boring if she never talked back. And if she always talked back, and always wanted her way, then that is disliked by me too.

[s.ali123]

Lol, I tried to read all comments above but some were too lengthy to read.
I personally want a wife who is my best friend. She can have her own opinion, and I don't exactly understand what it means by submissive. The way I see it is like we both discuss all the things in detail, even everyday matters, and reach to conclusions which are more beneficial, and if there comes a point where there is clear different approaches to follow, and I want to follow one way, then she support me with it. And same way if she wants to follow something, and I dont agree with it, I should still support her. So for me submissive means submission to Allah, and respecting eachother's approaches and implementing islamic teaching of love and mercy in our marriage. :)
And I already found the one fitting my criteria. Alhamdulillah :)

[fschmidt]

Well the superior and inferior refers to treatment. Modernity, is based on actually using this binary to construct sort of dominant culture regimes that exert their power over others and suppress them.


For example when Spain was governed by Islam, it didn't diminish the status of Christians and Jews by dictating to them the positions of trade, or business or made them feel inferior. Islam was used as the basis for governing of course, but Islam was never used as a weapon to control people and to make them feel as though their self worth was diminished. When Christian Spain emerged, religious doctrine was used to control people and to categorize the Muslims and the Jews as actual problems that needed to be "controlled" and dominated. See that difference ?


If you are indeed superior, you do not need to exert that superiority to control and diminish other people's worth. You used that superiority with wisdom and kindness.


Modernity with the expansion and creation of colonies used a dialogue of superior / inferior to make people feel like their worth was diminished and in order to justify that kind of colonial governance. Islamic expansion never did that, even as it expanded into regions it did not change the actual legal structure of places but was rather lenient. There's of course no denying that there were cases of slavery and things like that still present in the cultural milieu, but people were not mental or emotional "slaves" because they were not constructed as inferior to Islam. If you know what I mean. For example, if people converted to Islam they became free and were able to function in the social context, the racial issue was never used as a means to limit people from political office. This is different in the Christian expansion, where slavery was so abundant regardless of people becoming Christians and where new born Christians were still considered inferior to those who were drawn as "natural" Christians.

I think that even the best religion can be corrupted. So all religions have been both good and bad at different times in their history. Islam was quite good in Spain, but it has also been less good in other times and places. I don't know Islamic history very well, but I do know about the Karaite Jews in Egypt who never caused trouble to Muslims but were persecuted and driven out. Christianity was quite bad in Spain, but was quite tolerant in early America.

Instead of asking for a submissive wife, ask for a wife who will be kind, respectful and considerate. Just like a husband should be kind, respectful and considerate. Not a dominating husband, not a submissive wife. This is not a master or slave relationship. Both have rights and responsibilities towards each other.

I agree. Unfortunately in modern feminist culture, the wife is dominant and the husband is submissive. I could never tolerate a dominating wife, so I looked for (and found) my wife outside of feminist culture.

[Serinity]

Ask a scholar.

[Cpt.America]

Christianity was quite bad in Spain, but was quite tolerant in early America.

Sorry man, I'm gonna have to call you out on this one, Christianity in early America was 100% Puritanism and it was very very intolerant. They decimated native populations, justified institutionalized racism with religion as seen by the slavery of Africans, and they had the whole Salem witch trials which saw many innocent young women shamed and killed.