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EgyptPrincess
05-27-2016, 01:23 AM



David Cameron told world leaders Britain will send naval vessels to stop the flow of arms and migrants in and out of Libya. British warships will be sent to intercept ISIS gun-runners in the Mediterranean Sea in a major escalation of the war on Islamic State. Speaking at the G7 summit in Japan, David Cameron told world leaders Britain will take a ‘leading role’ in the fight against ISIS. He said more naval power is needed to stop the flow of arms and migrants in and out of war-torn Libya.

The prospect of British naval vessels encountering ISIS terrorists in foreign waters as they transport illegal arms ramps up the prospect of the first formal conflict between UK military and the bloodthirsty terror group.
The news comes after it was revealed British special forces fired a missile to destroy an ISIS truck packed with explosives in Libya this month.


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Bhabha
05-27-2016, 07:21 AM
Now it's Lybia then it'll be Jordan
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noraina
05-27-2016, 12:49 PM
And before that Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq....honestly just so tired of this warfare from both sides.
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sister herb
05-27-2016, 12:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
Now it's Lybia then it'll be Jordan
Why Jordan? I think it´s the old ally of the USA already.
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EgyptPrincess
05-27-2016, 01:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
Now it's Lybia then it'll be Jordan
Jordan is an Ally of both the United States and United Kingdom. Only three counties on the planet don't have diplomatic relations with the United States.

Iran
North Korea
Taiwan

The UK is not attacking Libya, they're sending a fleet of ships to protect their shores from foreign fighters pouring into the country. In fact the US and other world leaders are currently in talks about supplying the Libyan government with weaponry, tanks, missiles etc.
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sister herb
05-27-2016, 01:55 PM
Now the western world is again prepering to hit and fight back this cancer called daesh while Islamic world is weak and incoherent. What Islamic countries are doing when reports say that daesh has became stronger in the Libya. Do Islamic countries never learn the lesson, unit their armies and destroy daesh style criminal groups altogether? Or does the Islamic world just submit that other countries will do the job and whine how the west again humiliate them and "attack the Muslims" - well, yes civilians will become killed during kind of fights?

Pathetic.
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EgyptPrincess
05-27-2016, 02:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
Now the western world is again prepering to hit and fight back this cancer called daesh while Islamic world is weak and incoherent. What Islamic countries are doing when reports say that daesh has became stronger in the Libya. Do Islamic countries never learn the lesson, unit their armies and destroy daesh style criminal groups altogether? Or does the Islamic world just submit that other countries will do the job and whine how the west again humiliate them and "attack the Muslims" - well, yes civilians will become killed during kind of fights?

Pathetic.
Lol... One must wonder why the Islamic countries never really help. I mean look at Palestine, why nobody is helping them :facepalm: The Arab countries have so much money and they don't do anything to help of our struggling brothers and sisters.

Top foreign aid to Palestine is USA, Japan, Canada, Norway, Germany, Sweden, Spain and France. I'm almost embarrassed to have the Egyptian flag sometimes imsad

I honestly just think it must be that the majority of Muslim countries are just selfish and don't really care to help. Only 20% of the aid to Palestine comes from Arab states :Emoji19:

Aid to Syria is a little better though, here is a chart showing the countries and what they give. It just seems Palestine has been forgotten about

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Pygoscelis
05-27-2016, 03:43 PM
It is an interesting point. Western countries (especially the US and UK) get vilified, and for good reason to some extent, but what are the middle eastern countries themselves doing to fix things? What have they done to stop daesh? And where is their support for Palestine? They sure do use it for propaganda, but they don't actually do anything towards aid?
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EgyptPrincess
05-27-2016, 04:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
It is an interesting point. Western countries (especially the US and UK) get vilified, and for good reason to some extent, but what are the middle eastern countries themselves doing to fix things? What have they done to stop daesh? And where is their support for Palestine? They sure do use it for propaganda, but they don't actually do anything towards aid?
Well the current IS coalition has Jordan, Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE. So they are helping by supplying aid, performing air strikes and sharing intelligence but I think a large part of the issue is the Arab nations know that the US will just come in and deal with it lol. It's sort of like your high school bully, no need to fight him when you can just tell the teacher and get him expelled. Terribly analogy but you get the point.
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sister herb
05-27-2016, 04:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
It just seems Palestine has been forgotten about
People feel that Palestine is always in the news lines - decades after decades. People go dead for the news about human right violences and even for massacres if they happen again and again. They and the media need new tragedies - like in Syria now. About Palestine, many people are like "blah, Palestine again. Doesn´t here happen anything new?"
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'Abd-al Latif
05-27-2016, 04:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess



David Cameron told world leaders Britain will send naval vessels to stop the flow of arms and migrants in and out of Libya. British warships will be sent to intercept ISIS gun-runners in the Mediterranean Sea in a major escalation of the war on Islamic State. Speaking at the G7 summit in Japan, David Cameron told world leaders Britain will take a ‘leading role’ in the fight against ISIS. He said more naval power is needed to stop the flow of arms and migrants in and out of war-torn Libya.

The prospect of British naval vessels encountering ISIS terrorists in foreign waters as they transport illegal arms ramps up the prospect of the first formal conflict between UK military and the bloodthirsty terror group.
The news comes after it was revealed British special forces fired a missile to destroy an ISIS truck packed with explosives in Libya this month.


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Are we now facing ISIS pirates?
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سيف الله
05-29-2016, 03:17 PM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Jordan is an Ally of both the United States and United Kingdom. Only three counties on the planet don't have diplomatic relations with the United States.

Iran
North Korea
Taiwan

The UK is not attacking Libya, they're sending a fleet of ships to protect their shores from foreign fighters pouring into the country. In fact the US and other world leaders are currently in talks about supplying the Libyan government with weaponry, tanks, missiles etc.
The middle eastern regimes, dictatorships so to speak are client states of western powers. They rely on western powers for support and sustenance. These regimes probably wouldn't last long without it.

Western involvement has been a disaster for the middle east if you look back at the past century of history. The idea they are trying to help is laughable, the sooner they stop interfering and trying to remake the middle east in their image the better for all involved.

EDIT: Another viewpoint

Libya: Gunboat diplomacy will end in war

The government is taking us ever closer to war in Libya says Chris Nineham

The government is taking us ever closer to war in Libya. Yesterday, conveniently the day before a parliamentary recess, David Cameron announced that a fifth British warship will be sent to the Libyan coastline, with the intention of entering Libyan waters for the first time.

Cameron claimed this will be a legitimate move once an invitation is issued from the Libyan government. But the Al Sarraj government has been imposed by the Western powers at the end of March and was shipped into the capital last month under heavy guard in a Saudi vessel. The government is not accepted outside of Tripoli, and it is not fully in control of the capital.

It is facing strong opposition particularly in the East of the country, where the previously recognised government of the House of Representatives holds sway.

Sarraj himself is reported as being nervous about inviting Western forces in for fear of being seen as a 'puppet of the west'.

Anything but humanitarian

Yesterday, Cameron promised that Britain would now take 'an active leadership role' in the Libyan campaign. There is nothing humanitarian about it. Operation Sophia, as it is dubbed, is first of all designed to 'stem the flow' of Libyan refugees into Europe. This involves harrassing and potentially attacking vulnerable vessels laden with refugees. The government hope soon to send more troops to the country in order to clamp down on the migrants. This will involve British forces patrolling what will effectively be prison camps for migrants.

This won't end well

If more troops are deployed, the West risks moving towards a permanent occupation of a country devastated by NATO's 2011 aerial bombardment. Beyond the question of the refugees, the NATO powers want to secure control of the massive oil and gas reserves in the country.

This in turn will almost certainly mean active engagement in what is already a simmering, three-sided war. The Tobruk based government in the East and forces loyal to Al-Sarraj are competing to take on the forces of Islamic state, growing in strength in the central sector of the country, key to the oil industry.

Everything about the last 15 years of war tells us that deploying Western troops into this situation will deepen the conflict. We need to escalate the campaign against another Libyan war.

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/...ill-end-in-war
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EgyptPrincess
05-29-2016, 03:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Junon
The middle eastern regimes, dictatorships so to speak are client states of western powers. They rely on western powers for support and sustenance. These regimes probably wouldn't last long without it.

Western involvement has been a disaster for the middle east if you look back at the past century of history. The idea they are trying to help is laughable, the sooner they stop interfering and trying to remake the middle east in their image the better for all involved.
I agree there have been times when the west sticks it's nose in places it has no business like Iraq for example. They're trying their best to stay out of Syria, 5 years with no U.S invasion.

Obviously the U.S doesn't want radical extremist groups like Al-Qaeda and IS to spread and the whole part of being an ally with another country is that you protect your friends. Libya is now America ally so they're going to help protect them. Let's just assume for a moment that IS takes over all of Syria and Iraq (Iraq is an ally by the way) so now you have Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel and Jordan all under threat of invasion from IS. You think America is just going to sit back and not get involved?

The west has a duty and responsibility to help protect it's allies, plain and simple. I do agree though that the U.S gets involved sometimes in affairs that it has no business with.
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سيف الله
06-15-2016, 10:23 AM
Salaam

Nope you fail to understand the bigger picture, or history for that matter. Western powers (among many others) tried to hijack and the undermine the revolutions for their own rather nefarious ends. There not there to 'help', only serve their own interests.

NATO leaders are meeting to discuss the start of the Second Libyan War


'Our next war starts officially on July 8' - George Kerevan MP

Our next war starts officially on July 8. On that date, the heads of all the NATO countries meet in Warsaw National Stadium. Top of the agenda is rubber-stamping a Nato-led assault on what is left of Libya. Preparations have already begun with British, French and US Special Forces infiltrated and active on the ground against the Libyan branch of Daesh. Prospect: as big a Western debacle as we have seen before in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.

Flashback to 2011 and the overthrow of mad dictator Muammar Gaddafi, the son of a local goat-herder who originally led a military coup against pro-Western King Idris back in 1969. For the record, Libya has a population not much larger than Scotland’s but is 22 times bigger. It also has oodles of oil and gas, which is its attraction to the West.

Before he went bonkers, Gaddafi and his fellow army officers represented a secular, anti-imperialist, pan-Arab nationalism, modelled on the Egypt of Gammal Nasser. But the string of post-colonial regimes spawned in the Nasserist era succumbed to corruption, authoritarianism, crony-capitalism, and (with the fall of Communism) the return of Western influence by the back door. The latter offered – in return for access to all that lovely oil – help against the Muslim Brotherhood, a new Islamic social movement inheriting Arab resistance to imperialism after the degeneration of secular Nasserism. The Muslim Brotherhood was joined by more violent Islamist movements, including al-Qaeda and Daesh.

Gaddafi’s unique 42-year regime spanned this long historic cycle. Libya’s tiny population was easy to intimidate or buy off using the proceeds of oil sales, leaving Gaddafi to do his own thing. The oil industry was theoretically “nationalised” but in truth Gaddafi was always happy to deals with Western oil companies to extract the black gold. Indeed, he proved very adept at playing US and European oil companies against each other the better to fund his regime and his family’s increasingly extravagant lifestyle. The West seemed happy with this arrangement because Gaddafi’s erratic, egomaniac politics were more of a threat to anti-Western regimes in North Africa and the Middle East than anywhere else. Only after the 1988 Lockerbie bombing did an embarrassed West finally decide it needed to rein in Libya by applying economic sanctions that brought the country to the edge of bankruptcy.

In the wake of 9/11, and under threat from the new Islamist upsurge himself, Gaddafi returned to the Western fold, offering oil and a (ruthless) hand against al-Qaeda if sanctions were lifted. Britain’s then Prime Minister, Tony Blair, was only too happy to “bring Libya in from the cold”. Gaddafi thought he was safe but soon discovered (like many before him) that the Western powers never honour a deal with the Arabs. When in February 2011, at long last, the long-suffering people of Libya rose in rebellion against the hated Gaddafi family dictatorship, the West pulled the plug. By October, Gaddafi was dead. Undoubtedly, the Western powers figured that dumping Gaddafi would open the path to a pliant pro-Western regime and easier access to all that oil and gas.

To speed Gaddafi on his way to Hades, NATO and assorted pro-Western Arab states intervened in the Libyan uprising with an unprecedented avalanche of air strikes. Nato admits to flying an extraordinary 26,500 individual sorties against targets in Libya in 2011. Yet there have been only 3,933 Allied (non-Russian) air strikes in Syria against Daesh forces since bombing began in August 2014. In Iraq, there have been 8,438 Allied air attacks on Daesh units. So in Syria and Iraq combined, US and NATO forces have flown less than a third of the air strikes they did against the Gaddafi regime.

The result of the horrendous Nato bombing of Libya was effectively to destroy the country’s entire infrastructure – oil accepted, of course. Why this ridiculous overkill? Partly, it was at the behest of the Saudi-led Arab League which wanted revenge on the maverick Gaddafi. Partly, it was Nato and the US showing it could still flex military might after the debacles in Iraq and Afghanistan. Partly it was the petty vanity of Britain’s David Cameron and France’s Nicholas Sarkozy, who wanted to pretend to be a reincarnation of Mrs Thatcher. And it was the usual Western disdain for Arab lives.

Having destroyed the country, the Western powers simply walked away leaving Libya to descend into chaos. This dysfunctional country is now split into three warring zones. In the east, in Benghazi, there is the anti-Islamist House of Representatives, which is backed by neighbouring Egypt. HoR has some democratic legitimacy and is supported (after a fashion) by the remnants of the Libyan National Army led by ambitious General Khalifa Haftar. His is the strongest indigenous military force. Meanwhile, the western part of Libya, centred on Tripoli, remains in the hands of a variety of Islamist militias. In the middle: Daesh.

Two factors have renewed Western concern over Libya. The first is the flow of refugees and economic migrants using the country as a route into Europe. After the deal brokered between the EU and Turkey to return refugees to Turkish camps, chaotic Libya is now the obvious point of departure for those seeking to get to Europe. The UN reckons there are at least 100,000 would-be migrants waiting in their chance in Libya.

How can the EU broker a deal with Libya to send back any refugees, if there is no proper Libyan government? Answer: create a puppet government, sign a deal with them, then send in NATO military assets to enforce the deal. Last month, such a puppet government was delivered to Tripoli by boat (reportedly Saudi) and now resides in a heavily fortified naval base in Tripoli. This so-called Government of National Accord (GNA) is led by Faiez Serraj, whose father was a minister under the old pre-Gaddafi monarchy. The GNA is recognised by none of the other factions in Libya including strongman General Hafter. It remains surrounded not just by hostile Islamist militias in Tripoli but increasingly by Daesh. Daesh has deliberately opened a second front in Libya to break out of its encirclement in Syria-Iraq. It has anything between 4,000 and 6,000 fighters in Libya, based on Gaddafi’s old stronghold of Sirte. Despite ceding ground recently to General Hafter’s National Army, Libyan Daesh last week inflicted heavy casualties on militia units protecting Serraj’s puppet GNA.

At NATO’s July summit, the decision will be taken to blockade Libya’s 2,000-kilometre coast, to turn back refugees and isolate Daesh. Britain has already deployed a spy ship (HMS Enterprise) to the area and US drones are flying daily across Libya from the Italian island of Pantelleria. Various reputable media sources reveal there are already British, American, French and Italian Special Forces on the ground directing militia operations against Daesh. Come July expect renewed airstrikes targeting Daesh.

The UK has publicly offered to send 1,000 military advisors to train a new Libyan army loyal to the wobbly Serraj government. As these British personnel would be based in easy striking distance of Daesh suicide bombers, any notion they would be non-combatants is risible. The Second Libyan War has already begun. Where it will end is anybody’s guess.

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news-comment/1978-george-kerevan-nato-leaders-are-meeting-to-discuss-the-start-of-the-second-libyan-war
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