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*charisma*
05-28-2016, 04:09 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

In the hopes of becoming successful and independent, women these days have placed their focus on their education and work but I've noticed many don't know how to do any housework things.

Then there's the feminists who try so hard to beat the boys or be recognized that they've lost their very uniqueness that makes them women.

While I'm not obligated to cook and clean and do all of these things, I LOVE to do them. I take pride in being able to do it all, but I've noticed my female friends or other women don't really know how to cook, or still have their parents or others cleaning after them. As they seek independence they are still child-like when it comes to domestic work. Maybe I'm just a generalist and like to learn and get my hands into everything, but I see doing these thing as survival skills too. Like how is it as an Arab I know how to make perfect biryani from scratch but my paki bff whose family owns a restaurant does not?

How many of you cook meals for your family?

And I don't really want my post just to be about women, because there are also guys who expect from women to do all the housework and they don't know how to do anything either :X.why don't you bros learn how to cook and clean up after yourselves as well, generally speaking? Is there shame in doing it or do you attach a stigma to it? Legit questions here.
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muslimah_B
05-28-2016, 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum

In the hopes of becoming successful and independent, women these days have placed their focus on their education and work but I've noticed many don't know how to do any housework things.

Then there's the feminists who try so hard to beat the boys or be recognized that they've lost their very uniqueness that makes them women.

While I'm not obligated to cook and clean and do all of these things, I LOVE to do them. I take pride in being able to do it all, but I've noticed my female friends or other women don't really know how to cook, or still have their parents or others cleaning after them. As they seek independence they are still child-like when it comes to domestic work. Maybe I'm just a generalist and like to learn and get my hands into everything, but I see doing these thing as survival skills too. Like how is it as an Arab I know how to make perfect biryani from scratch but my paki bff whose family owns a restaurant does not?

How many of you cook meals for your family?

And I don't really want my post just to be about women, because there are also guys who expect from women to do all the housework and they don't know how to do anything either :X.why don't you bros learn how to cook and clean up after yourselves as well, generally speaking? Is there shame in doing it or do you attach a stigma to it? Legit questions here.
Walaykum asalam warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu

Sis i totally agree with you, i think both men and women should learn how to cook, clean..
I mean the mens excuses are "my wife and mum does it why do i need to learn"
Well your mum is not going to be around forever, she is going to get old and not be able to do all these things for you, AND YOU SHOULD BE HELPING HER NOT JUST WATCHING HER PICK UP YOUR DIRTY CLOTHES AND COOKING DINNER EVERYDAY,
What about if your wife gets too sick to cook or clean, what then take-away? Well wife is sick and take away wont do.

Womens excuses "well why should i have to, he can do it himself"
I mean honestly come on, how is that looking after your husband or family when it is upon the wife to look after the husband, his possessions and house

Both cooking and cleaning falls upon both to help eachother out, no-one likes being orderd around or told to do something in a disrespectful way, but the best way to avoid this is to know who your marrying and check their character

Womens roles are based around the husband and family, and can include cooking and cleaning if that's what the husband wants, even Allah tells women it is better for us to stay at home. Ofcourse certain circumstances call for women to go out and work etc etc, but we have women who look down on homemakers and say they have done nothing with their lives and just live to serve their husbands.
Well i would rather do that and please Allah, than be in a situation where i am not pleasing him, working with men at work, not being able to be segregated at college/ uni
(These are just how i think, but i would rather have an opportunity to learn or work away from men)

I occasionally cook for mine, but they dont really like my food as i do it too spicy and have to tone it down alot for them LOL.

I recently took up sewing still learning the basics, its very frustrating but also really fun ( i kept thinking to myself why didnt i learn this sooner, why did i look down on things that where basically potrayed as "feminist" ) i mean its so therapeutic when i get it right LOL.

(Sorry i know i went off topic abit whooopsy)
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sister herb
05-28-2016, 05:04 PM
Yep I mean I agree. It´s one of those skills what everyone should learn. I am wondering does young people get any teaching for cooking from their homes - both boys and girls. If not, they should. As well people should know many other things like repairing their own clothes. I have seen how many people just throw some piece of clothing away, because they don´t know how to fix it.

Originally Posted by *charisma*
How many of you cook meals for your family?
Well, please visit in the IB Kitchen Club thread. I have tried all those recipes I have posted to there.



Family hasn´t complained.
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'Abd-al Latif
05-28-2016, 05:18 PM
I love to cook and I don't think there's a woman here who can compete with my level of attention to cleanliness and hygiene!!
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muslimah_B
05-28-2016, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
I love to cook and I don't think there's a woman here who can compete with my level of attention to cleanliness and hygiene!!
Erm i wouldnt be so sure about that Lol, i dont like dirt, or mess or anything being out of place or it drives me crazy, when i have my moments of madness i clean the walls LOL and make sure everything smells like fruits
Beat that :)
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'Abd-al Latif
05-28-2016, 05:25 PM
Sorry let me rephrase my wording. I intended to say there's no "person" here who can compete. I leave a section of my wall untouched for tayyamum. I don't perfume them though.
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EgyptPrincess
05-28-2016, 05:26 PM
I am guilty of this... I can't even cook the most basic of meals but this is because my mother does all the cooking and I've never really felt the need to learn. When my mother isn't home we get given money to get a takeaway. At some point I'm going to have to learn but I will never be like my mother. I don't want to stay at home and slave over a stove or scrub the house top to bottom. My mother always complains about her back or knees and I don't want to be like this when I'm her age. Yes Muslimahs these days are becoming more and more independent in terms of education, career and financial stability but we're neglecting some core skills such as cooking as a result.

I think it's romantic if a man can cook for me once in a while but I don't think it's fair to bundle women as cooks and cleaners while men have the careers, money and education. If me and my husband work, I expect us to split the responsibilities fairly so we both do our part. Any husband that thinks he can just marry a women and after she comes home from a hard days work just start cleaning and cooking is going to be in for a major shock.

Some women love cleaning and cooking and providing these things to their husbands but I hate cleaning and cooking. I think men need to start accepting that women are becoming more independent and as such, chores around the house need to be shared. So cmon men, get your rubber gloves on, there's a bucket and brush under the sink, start scrubbing that toilet. :p
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muslimah_B
05-28-2016, 05:29 PM
No i dont perfume it lol.
I get bleach sprays and anti-bac sprays with fruit smells.

Im not sure if "wall dust" counts as being able to be used for tayyamum though, maybe taking the dirt from a plant pot would be better as its actual dirt (soil) and not skin cells and fluff
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noraina
05-28-2016, 05:52 PM
Wa alaykum assalam,

Sis, you have this spot on ma'sha'Allah. Nothing wrong with education or a career, but I have found women now use 'manhood' as a standard by which they value themselves - which only degrades them. They themselves make men to be superior to them, that their life will be incomplete and they will be inferior unless they be as 'manly' as possible.

I see this so much that anything feminine is considered degrading - whether it is being sensitive, becoming a mother, taking care of your house and kids. I find it ironic how this whole inequality thing seems to be 'self-created'. For me, this whole feminism movement began with great ideals, but has kinda just disintegrated since then and lost its true purpose.

I just think sometimes we forget Allah swt has created both genders equal but different. As women we are given our value by Allah swt, not by men - and to want to be like men is well, futile and we'll never fulfil that sacred role we have. I sometimes think as women we have the better side, lol. Alhamdulillah.

I'm not married, but I help my mother around the house, I help her in the kitchen (not much, lol), whilst also studying. I think it's great. Not too generalise but especially some families from Pakistan use it as a status symbol these days to say 'My daughter doesn't even know how to fry an egg!' I have seen this way too many times, it's nothing terrible but is it something to really declare?
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ukmuslimah
05-28-2016, 06:02 PM
Women being expected to cook and do domestic duties is a cultural expectaction. Islamically, there is nothing that makes any connection between women and cooking/cleaning, unlike the very clear requirement of a man to provide. Biologically, it makes sense for a woman to know how to prepare food not only for herself, but to able to feed her young children. But that's about it. If a woman cooks for her husband and irons his clothes, it's because she's doing it out of love, it's the more practical arrangement or she is obeying him. Not because it's a female duty.

I really dislike the sexist attitude that is prevalent in a lot of asian/arab cultures. Not a response to the OP, just my opinion.

I hate cooking, just abhor it. It just seems illogical to me to spend 1hr or more cooking something only for it to disappear in 2 seconds. I don't mind cleaning though, I find washing the dishes quite satisfying lol. Nothing like a nice, clean empty sink to soothe the eyes.
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EgyptPrincess
05-28-2016, 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by noraina
Wa alaykum assalam,

Sis, you have this spot on ma'sha'Allah. Nothing wrong with education or a career, but I have found women now use 'manhood' as a standard by which they value themselves - which only degrades them. They themselves make men to be superior to them, that their life will be incomplete and they will be inferior unless they be as 'manly' as possible.

I see this so much that anything feminine is considered degrading - whether it is being sensitive, becoming a mother, taking care of your house and kids. I find it ironic how this whole inequality thing seems to be 'self-created'. For me, this whole feminism movement began with great ideals, but has kinda just disintegrated since then and lost its true purpose.
I think you have this completely backwards. You may be comfortable being 100% reliant on your husband for money, food, clothing and your home but many women feel incredibly vulnerable with this level of dependence. What if 10 years down the line the marriage does not work out and you have to divorce? You are left with no job, no education, no money, no way to feed or clothe yourself, no home and no leg to stand on. You pretty much will be forced to stay with your husband out of fear of being left with nothing. Perhaps you have your parents to go back to or something but it's still a horrible feeling of being powerless to sustain your own life.

Now the second option is to delay marriage for a while, get an education, get a career so you have your own source of income. Then get married, both work and contribute towards a functioning household and during this time, you can work and save up a nice chunk of money for if things ever take a turn for the worse. Then when you have children you can quit your job while he works and once the kids are old enough to go to school, you can return to work part time or something of that nature.

Then 10 years down the line if things don't work out at least you have money to rent your own place, feed yourself etc. You'll have an education that will last a lifetime. You have previous work experience so finding another job will be a piece of cake and most importantly, you won't be forced to stay in a marriage you detest.

Naturally men don't like this way of thinking because they no longer have 100% control over us and that creates an unsettling picture for them. Now men are forced to respect their wives fully otherwise we'll be out the door and I imagine they dislike that.
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'Abd-al Latif
05-28-2016, 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
No i dont perfume it lol.
I get bleach sprays and anti-bac sprays with fruit smells.

Im not sure if "wall dust" counts as being able to be used for tayyamum though, maybe taking the dirt from a plant pot would be better as its actual dirt (soil) and not skin cells and fluff
I am of the opinion that well dust can be used as tayyumum. I just won't smell like fresh fruits in the morning.
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muslimah_B
05-28-2016, 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
I am of the opinion that well dust can be used as tayyumum. I just won't smell like fresh fruits in the morning.
I honestly didnt know a wall could gain enough dust for a tayyamum alhamdulilah lol.
I used my car seat before for tayyamum, felt quite weird

Get one of those plug in air freshers, safer than candles and smells of it all around

(Sorry i know off topic but im rather amazed at wall dust for tayyamum LOL)
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noraina
05-28-2016, 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I think you have this completely backwards. You may be comfortable being 100% reliant on your husband for money, food, clothing and your home but many women feel incredibly vulnerable with this level of dependence. What if 10 years down the line the marriage does not work out and you have to divorce? You are left with no job, no education, no money, no way to feed or clothe yourself, no home and no leg to stand on. You pretty much will be forced to stay with your husband out of fear of being left with nothing. Perhaps you have your parents to go back to or something but it's still a horrible feeling of being powerless to sustain your own life.

Now the second option is to delay marriage for a while, get an education, get a career so you have your own source of income. Then get married, both work and contribute towards a functioning household and during this time, you can work and save up a nice chunk of money for if things ever take a turn for the worse. Then when you have children you can quit your job while he works and once the kids are old enough to go to school, you can return to work part time or something of that nature.

Then 10 years down the line if things don't work out at least you have money to rent your own place, feed yourself etc. You'll have an education that will last a lifetime. You have previous work experience so finding another job will be a piece of cake and most importantly, you won't be forced to stay in a marriage you detest.

Naturally men don't like this way of thinking because they no longer have 100% control over us and that creates an unsettling picture for them. Now men are forced to respect their wives fully otherwise we'll be out the door and I imagine they dislike that.
SubhanAllah, I didn't say anything about relying completely on your husband or not working! :o

Women can and should have careers, but overall in society there is a view that taking care of your family makes one inferior - we shouldn't base our value compared to the standard of men - both men and women are utterly different from one another and is something we should celebrate it.

I didn't mention anything at all about not educating yourself or not having a career and that has nothing to do with the topic in question. I was just agreeing with sister Charisma that sometimes we try so hard to be like men, and lose the qualities Allah swt has given us which make us uniquely feminine. There is nothing unfeminine about working and supporting your family, it is admirable, I will be going to uni next year and inshaAllah would want a job in future - but we mustn't forget our duties also.

And no-one is comfortable about complete dependence - and you shouldn't be. The beauty of marriage is co-operation and teamwork, alhamdulillah now all women can work and support themselves, to be dependant isn't a good thing and honestly I don't think women do be 100% reliant on their husbands these days. However neither is it bad if she chooses not to work and focus on her children - I know this working woman who left her job to take care of her kids - you don't have to do this but she chose to do it and did get some criticism, which doesn't make sense to me at all.
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Cpt.America
05-28-2016, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess

Now the second option is to delay marriage for a while, get an education, get a career so you have your own source of income. Then get married, both work and contribute towards a functioning household and during this time, you can work and save up a nice chunk of money for if things ever take a turn for the worse. Then when you have children you can quit your job while he works and once the kids are old enough to go to school, you can return to work part time or something of that nature.
You don't have to delay marriage for education.
It's possible to be married and do school at the same time.
(Especially if both members of the couple are studying.)
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noraina
05-28-2016, 07:37 PM
Completely agree! Marriage is not the end as some people make it out to be. Alhamdulillah you can continue to study, or enjoy your hobbies, and be yourself. :)
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EgyptPrincess
05-28-2016, 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by Cpt.America
You don't have to delay marriage for education.
It's possible to be married and do school at the same time.
(Especially if both members of the couple are studying.)
OK Assume you get married then your husband doesn't like that you want to go to university or he starts pressuring you to start cooking and cleaning etc. How can you possibly manage a full time degree while living at home cooking and cleaning all day? You'd have to find a man that would be willing from the start to accept that you're going to uni and when you leave uni you want to start your career.

Have to lay it out for them in advance so they know.
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muslimah_B
05-28-2016, 08:15 PM
I think women take this whole feminism thing to another level, that the husband asking you to not do something or to do something is a form of oppression or something LOL.

Like if you want to work or carry on getting an education, then you speak to the potentials and explain this to them and if theyre happy with you doing that then theres no problem.
But if they would prefer the wife to be at home and them be the only provider then you find someone else who is happy with your plans.

Just because the man doesnt want the woman to work doesnt mean hes controlling or trying to be possessive, they sometimes have their reasons, but if you dont want to be in that situation then dont marry someone who wants that for his wife... simple

Everybody has their different wants and expectations of their husbands and wives, you just have to find someone who agress with you and fits into it.

A woman DOESNT have to work, unless she wants to
Education is totally different, from an islamic point everyone MUST learn about their deen, women especially so they understand their rights in the marriage and their rights over their husband, they can then learn the Quran and teach women, they can learn arabic and become an Alimah, moving onto muftiah (if thats the feminine word of it) and even a female judge that deals with women specificly.

And techinally a women is only meant to leave her house out of necessity, and if a woman is to get a job its meant to benifit women of the ummah, such as a female doctor, female surgeon, female muftiah, things where women are NEEDED, where there will be no interaction or mixing with men.

Women and men where made different have different roles for reasons made by Allah.

Only women can carry babies have a more nuturing side to them
Only men can be imam of masjid
Men are the providers and head of household
Women look after husbands possesions, money, house
Etc etc etc

I think people go a bit too far with these western feminist ideals that "that whatever a man can do, i can do" - well im sorry but no you cant LOL

Islam gave women rights and what they can and cant do long before these feminist wackos came along and tried to change things and "speak for us"

Like honestly whats wrong with cooking and cleaning for your husband lol, you do things for people you love, it doenst make you any less of a woman doing what your husband asks, obeying your husband is pleasing to Allah, but that doesnt mean that the husband cant pitch in and help, it shows good character and following what prophet mohammed s.a.w used to do by helping out his wives

What is this stigma that people put on marriage... it completes half your deen and should be the most beautiful thing ever in this dunya providing its with the right person LOL
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Qurratul Ayn
05-28-2016, 08:38 PM
:salamext:

I love cooking, baking, cleaning, ironing, hoovering, etc. My Dear Sisters envy me... JOKING, PLEASE DON'T. I'M BEING SILLY AND WEIRD ;D;D;D

Back to being serious... I believe it is essential for men AND women to at least know the basics of cooking i.e. How to cook rice, make roti/chappati, make a simple pasta dish etc. Also to be aware of basic cleaning i.e Laundry, washing up dishes, ironing etc.

Marriage is about teamwork, understanding, compromise and learning. So both parties should help each other out whenever they can.

In this day and age, women aren't being taught how to cook or to observe cooking, at least observing they might have an idea of what is required for various dishes. Culture, society and community play a part too, particularly once a girl becomes a daughter-in-law. They are judged and looked upon for their housework skills, cooking skills, hostess skills and social skills. Not knowing how to cook, to make appetisers or a cup of tea can be sneered upon, made horrid comments about, thus "staining" the reputation, image of their husband's family plus insults and degradation to woman's own family.

I hate that part about culture, that women are expected to do everything in the house and beyond, otherwise they'll be talked about and slandered. There is pressure upon the girl to learn housework and cooking. The fact that the husband has done some ironing, or washed his own dish or made his own cup of tea (OH MY GOODNESS, HE MADE HIS OWN CUP OF TEA?! WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO?!) is not allowed or unacceptable, it can be met with outrage and horror. I'm not joking. At all.

The fact that some girls don't know how to do any of these skills is surprising to me, all of my acquaintances, Muslim and Non-Muslim, know how to do basic cooking an cleaning, the minimum amount they can get away with, lol.

As long as the husband is okay with the wife's set of skills, however minimal or amazing they are, that's all that matters, plus helping each other out, covering their backs will go towards the everlasting love and appreciation they have for each other.


Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Have to lay it out for them in advance so they know.

Precisely


Take care y'all
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EgyptPrincess
05-28-2016, 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
...
It's not about trying to be a man. If I wanted to be a man I'd lift weights, watch football and get a job in construction. Most women don't want to be categorised... ie you are a women so you belong in the kitchen. I am a women and I belong wherever the hell I choose. Same rights as a man.

If I wanted to cook for a living I'd be a chef, if I wanted to clean for a living I'd be a maid. I want to do what I want, not what people think I should be doing. Yes I would cook for my husband and clean the house and take care of the kids but I also expect my husband to do his fair share to help out. I totally understand if he works all day and I do not, then I would not even want him to lift a finger with the chores because he works all day so the household duties fall to the wife.

You have to understand that people are different and want different things. Some women may love nothing more than to be at home all day cooking and cleaning for their husband and to serve his food and this brings them great joy, fantastic, hooray for you. Some women don't like to do this but seeking an alternative to cooking and cleaning is somehow being feminist. It's called having equal rights.

Even if my husband earned £125k a year I would still WANT to work. Not to show him that I'm "a man" but because I want my own self accomplishment and I want to be successful.

I have no problem with men that want their wives to be maids, what I have a problem with is when they think that is where we belong. If my husband tried forcing me to be a hermit maid and stay in doors all day I'd tell him to sling his hook.
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Serinity
05-28-2016, 10:00 PM
:salam:

It seems like there is this gender rivalry. Lets not demonize those women who want to stay at home and do housework.

It is commendable and encouraged for a woman to stay at home and do her motherly duties as well as fulfill the rights of the husband over her. In fact, this is in accordance to the blessed teachings of the Holy Quran and that of the prophet (SAW). It is only in this way, you will be able to have a proper Islamic home with the children growing under the guidance, supervision, care and training of the mother who is the ‘first Islamic Institute’ of the child.


A woman can work, but it isn't essential of her, Islamically she doesn't have to pay for the rent or expenses. So if she chooses to work, the husband can not demand his wife to pay the expenses, etc. Afaik.

May Allah SWT forgive me if I said anything wrong.

Source:
http://islamqa.org/hanafi/darululoomtt/52507

And Allah SWT knows best.
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muslimah_B
05-28-2016, 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
It's not about trying to be a man. If I wanted to be a man I'd lift weights, watch football and get a job in construction. Most women don't want to be categorised... ie you are a women so you belong in the kitchen. I am a women and I belong wherever the hell I choose. Same rights as a man.

If I wanted to cook for a living I'd be a chef, if I wanted to clean for a living I'd be a maid. I want to do what I want, not what people think I should be doing. Yes I would cook for my husband and clean the house and take care of the kids but I also expect my husband to do his fair share to help out. I totally understand if he works all day and I do not, then I would not even want him to lift a finger with the chores because he works all day so the household duties fall to the wife.

You have to understand that people are different and want different things. Some women may love nothing more than to be at home all day cooking and cleaning for their husband and to serve his food and this brings them great joy, fantastic, hooray for you. Some women don't like to do this but seeking an alternative to cooking and cleaning is somehow being feminist. It's called having equal rights.

Even if my husband earned £125k a year I would still WANT to work. Not to show him that I'm "a man" but because I want my own self accomplishment and I want to be successful.

I have no problem with men that want their wives to be maids, what I have a problem with is when they think that is where we belong. If my husband tried forcing me to be a hermit maid and stay in doors all day I'd tell him to sling his hook.
Just by your 1st paragraph your sterotyping and putting yourself into that catogory.
Men and women where created different and have different roles,
Its not about doing what you want, its about doing what Allah commands you to do, and part of Allahs commands are to obey your husband.

I never said not wanting to do those thinhs equals feminist, i said thinking those roles of a wife wich can include that make a women lesser or looked down upon,

What does cooking and cleaning have to do with equal rights.
Islam laid down the foundation of equal rights in terms of emaan spirituality and education, islam laid down the rights of women long before these wackos decided to "speak up".. if people followed the Quran and sunnah properly there would be no such thing as feminists

The husband has rights over his wife and the wife has rights over her husband, its as simple as that

Successful people are those who see that pleasing Allah comes 1st not being successful in this dunya,
when this dunya is but a playground for the shaytan making people chase money, fame and status.

I will not have a feminist tell me that to be equal to a man i must work or do what a man does to be equal
I will do what Allah commands me to do to the best of my ability, not what some wackos think is best for me to not feel like a "maid"

Your not cooking and cleaning for a living, your cooking and cleaning for your family, for yourself

If a woman wants to work then it should be away from men, fully coverd and doing something that is helpfull for women, like i said before, doctors surgeons, alimahs, muftiahs, teachers (things that can help sisters avoid having to see or speak to men)

If you married a man and he earns enough to feed you, clothe you, keep a roof over your head, is kind to you, gives you your rights then ALHAMDULILAH, if he doesn't want you to work then you obey your husband because that is what ALLAH HAS COMMANDED, there is no grounds for divorce on that matter

The husband doesnt tell you to stay inside... Allah actually does lol unless out of necessity or going to the masjid to pray or learn, fully covered.

*“And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance” [al-Ahzaab 33:33].
This verse was to the wives of prophet mohammed s.a.w but also is for the believing women
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Serinity
05-28-2016, 10:58 PM
The women is degrading herself by comparing herself and her worth to a man, by feeling inferior just because men are stronger, have more authority, etc.

In the military the standards are lowered for women to enter, why? cause they can not handle the training men go through. Is this sexist? no.

There are things men are better at than women.

This whole trying to equalise men and women is pretty pathetic. We are different. A man can not raise a child the way women do. They can not be 'feminine'.

The society is set up to subjugate women and to make them feel like having to 'prove' themselves to men. The society is purely objectifying women, under the disguise of being 'liberal'.
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EgyptPrincess
05-28-2016, 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Just by your 1st paragraph your sterotyping and putting yourself into that catogory.
Men and women where created different and have different roles,
Its not about doing what you want, its about doing what Allah commands you to do, and part of Allahs commands are to obey your husband.

I never said not wanting to do those thinhs equals feminist, i said thinking those roles of a wife wich can include that make a women lesser or looked down upon,

What does cooking and cleaning have to do with equal rights.
Islam laid down the foundation of equal rights in terms of emaan spirituality and education, islam laid down the rights of women long before these wackos decided to "speak up".. if people followed the Quran and sunnah properly there would be no such thing as feminists

The husband has rights over his wife and the wife has rights over her husband, its as simple as that

Successful people are those who see that pleasing Allah comes 1st not being successful in this dunya,
when this dunya is but a playground for the shaytan making people chase money, fame and status.

I will not have a feminist tell me that to be equal to a man i must work or do what a man does to be equal
I will do what Allah commands me to do to the best of my ability, not what some wackos think is best for me to not feel like a "maid"

Your not cooking and cleaning for a living, your cooking and cleaning for your family, for yourself

If a woman wants to work then it should be away from men, fully coverd and doing something that is helpfull for women, like i said before, doctors surgeons, alimahs, muftiahs, teachers (things that can help sisters avoid having to see or speak to men)

If you married a man and he earns enough to feed you, clothe you, keep a roof over your head, is kind to you, gives you your rights then ALHAMDULILAH, if he doesn't want you to work then you obey your husband because that is what ALLAH HAS COMMANDED, there is no grounds for divorce on that matter

The husband doesnt tell you to stay inside... Allah actually does lol unless out of necessity or going to the masjid to pray or learn, fully covered.

*“And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance” [al-Ahzaab 33:33].
This verse was to the wives of prophet mohammed s.a.w but also is for the believing women
Simple solution then, I'll marry a man which does not command me to do certain things. Then there can be no disobeying him because he never commanded me anything :D I would just lay down some ground rules for him and make sure we're both on the same page. Different people like different style of marriage so I'd let him know from the start that I'm not to be bossed around and to be allowed to work. If he doesn't agree then I'll find another man.
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EgyptPrincess
05-28-2016, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
The women is degrading herself by comparing herself and her worth to a man, by feeling inferior just because men are stronger, have more authority, etc.

In the military the standards are lowered for women to enter, why? cause they can not handle the training men go through. Is this sexist? no.

There are things men are better at than women.

This whole trying to equalise men and women is pretty pathetic. We are different. A man can not raise a child the way women do. They can not be 'feminine'.

The society is set up to subjugate women and to make them feel like having to 'prove' themselves to men. The society is purely objectifying women, under the disguise of being 'liberal'.
I agree that men are stronger than women of course, I don't think there are many women that actually believe they're equal to men in terms of strength... That's just stupid.

I have authority over the man, not the other way around :D in my dreams I guess.
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Cpt.America
05-29-2016, 02:30 AM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
OK Assume you get married then your husband doesn't like that you want to go to university or he starts pressuring you to start cooking and cleaning etc. How can you possibly manage a full time degree while living at home cooking and cleaning all day? You'd have to find a man that would be willing from the start to accept that you're going to uni and when you leave uni you want to start your career.

Have to lay it out for them in advance so they know.
Exactly.
These things have to be discussed between the two potentials and their families prior to getting married.
If you want to study, and your potential says 'no' they don't like that, then he isn't the person you want to get married to. Simple.

A couple I know, who are both studying, have chosen not to be domestic yet (because they're both studying), but they're married instead of taking one of those several year long engagements (which aren't halal anyway).
They take vacations together and spend weekends and breaks together when they can, but they're planning on really doing the whole domestic bit and all that after they graduate InshaaAllah.
How you run your marriage is between your spouse and you. As, the sister mentioned above, It's not like marriage suddenly means you have to drop everything and live some sortof stereotypical life (which is cultural as opposed to Islamic anyway).
Keep away from the haram and keep to the halal, and that's really all the guidelines we need, the rest we can fill in however we please.
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Karl
05-29-2016, 04:36 AM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I think you have this completely backwards. You may be comfortable being 100% reliant on your husband for money, food, clothing and your home but many women feel incredibly vulnerable with this level of dependence. What if 10 years down the line the marriage does not work out and you have to divorce? You are left with no job, no education, no money, no way to feed or clothe yourself, no home and no leg to stand on. You pretty much will be forced to stay with your husband out of fear of being left with nothing. Perhaps you have your parents to go back to or something but it's still a horrible feeling of being powerless to sustain your own life.

Now the second option is to delay marriage for a while, get an education, get a career so you have your own source of income. Then get married, both work and contribute towards a functioning household and during this time, you can work and save up a nice chunk of money for if things ever take a turn for the worse. Then when you have children you can quit your job while he works and once the kids are old enough to go to school, you can return to work part time or something of that nature.

Then 10 years down the line if things don't work out at least you have money to rent your own place, feed yourself etc. You'll have an education that will last a lifetime. You have previous work experience so finding another job will be a piece of cake and most importantly, you won't be forced to stay in a marriage you detest.

Naturally men don't like this way of thinking because they no longer have 100% control over us and that creates an unsettling picture for them. Now men are forced to respect their wives fully otherwise we'll be out the door and I imagine they dislike that.

Wouldn't it be easier to re marry after a divorce. Especially if you want to have children. It is best to have at least one baby within the second decade of life. Some women make the mistake of leaving it too late.
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EgyptPrincess
05-29-2016, 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
Wouldn't it be easier to re marry after a divorce. Especially if you want to have children. It is best to have at least one baby within the second decade of life. Some women make the mistake of leaving it too late.
Perhaps but I don't think it's as easy as just go and get another husband. It may take you a year or even longer and then if you have kids some men won't want to marry a women with kids already etc. I bet there are some men and women who're in they're late 20's and still not married so I don't think it's this simple.
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Karl
05-29-2016, 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Perhaps but I don't think it's as easy as just go and get another husband. It may take you a year or even longer and then if you have kids some men won't want to marry a women with kids already etc. I bet there are some men and women who're in they're late 20's and still not married so I don't think it's this simple.
Shouldn't the dowry cover that? Not all females are academics. This Helen Reddy attitude that females can do anything is very destructive to motherhood. It is also against Islamic values. I cannot find in the Quran that females should spend so much time in Universities in the pursuit of money. It says Allah will provide. What is more important, greed for money or having a family? To me the feminist movement comes across very Satanic. I suppose all the modern Western culture comes across Satanic because it probably is.
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Bhabha
05-30-2016, 07:38 AM
Nothing to do with greed or having money. Unfortunately marriages now a days are not all that and a bag of chips. I know some women who are so good to their husbands and their husband left them and married someone else. What can a woman do who might not have family to support her later? What can a woman do when she is married and her husband gets up and leaves her? Will she go and ask for shelter? Go and beg for mercy? As far as I know the husband is not obliged to give the wife anything if they are divorcing. Because he provided for her, correct?

So let's say God forbid a woman marries a man that later becomes abusive. She is good and he is a dink. He doesn't want to leave her because he doesn't want to divorce her and he is an abusive person. So what is she going to do? Obviously return the mahr the sink gave her and leave him.

Then, let's say this happened after they were maybe 20 years together :) he became abusive, her family is probably dead and her children are not old enough to support her. Where does she go? Oops nowhere because let's face it, the Muslim community is not strong enough to help women in need and the sad reality is that the response will be have patience sister, meanwhile she is being abused.

But what about a woman who isn't at the mercy of a man like that? She can actually survive if he decides to leave her or if she decides to leave his abuse.

So yes work is important, because not all men are angels to actually give women their rights. If we lived in a perfect world. Sure I don't think any one of us would actually want to work, unfortunately men and women are fickle and I would rather not be at the mercy of someone who might be prove to be mentally and emotionally abusive, specially when I do not have a Muslim family to back me up. :)
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Bhabha
05-30-2016, 07:45 AM
And اللهُ does provide. Nowhere does it say women cannot work and nowhere does it say women cannot use their talents. If اللهُ gave a woman talents to study, to be creative, to research, to learn etc. Then these are best fulfilled at a university.

If a woman has a job and has an education, is it not because اللهُ has provided her with the means to support herself? Things do not grow on trees, people need money to survive. Organizations will not donate a single cent to you, at all because all of that goes into the imaginary hands of helpless children advertised on webpages.

It is like the person that was in the middle of the ocean sinking and asking God for help. God sent three boats to help him! But he told each of these boats no, because he was waiting for God to help him. Let us not be blind to the realities of this world. It is overcrowded, the schools teach garbage, do we desperately need to bring children to this world? Or should we not strive to fix it a little before bringing them forth?
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Futuwwa
05-30-2016, 12:36 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Simple solution then, I'll marry a man which does not command me to do certain things. Then there can be no disobeying him because he never commanded me anything :D I would just lay down some ground rules for him and make sure we're both on the same page. Different people like different style of marriage so I'd let him know from the start that I'm not to be bossed around and to be allowed to work. If he doesn't agree then I'll find another man.
That is certainly your prerogative to do. The majority view about Islamic marriage is that it's entirely legitimate to add any kind of clauses and special conditions into the nikah, the marriage contract. Anything goes, as long as it's agreed-on and not haram outright.
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keiv
05-30-2016, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I think it's romantic if a man can cook for me once in a while but I don't think it's fair to bundle women as cooks and cleaners while men have the careers, money and education. If me and my husband work, I expect us to split the responsibilities fairly so we both do our part. Any husband that thinks he can just marry a women and after she comes home from a hard days work just start cleaning and cooking is going to be in for a major shock.

Some women love cleaning and cooking and providing these things to their husbands but I hate cleaning and cooking. I think men need to start accepting that women are becoming more independent and as such, chores around the house need to be shared. So cmon men, get your rubber gloves on, there's a bucket and brush under the sink, start scrubbing that toilet. :p
Well, it's all about perspective I guess. If I work a 70+ hours in a week doing physical work and my wife works in a cubicle sitting in front of the computer, I'll be damned if I'm getting on my knees scrubbing the floor. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing that responsibility but, again, it's not something that you can look at and say "ok both of us work so we both have to split the chores in half". Now if only one of you are working, then the person who isn't working better be up for it. Just so you get a better picture of me, I'm not married and I live on my own so I've been self sufficient my whole life, so I don't have a "maid" at home working for me.

Also be careful for what you ask for. If you want to work for the rest of your adult life until you retire (if you retire), then by all means go for it. If you want to get married and the guy is working but you also want to peruse a career and both of you agree on that, then go for it. If you end up getting married and both have successful careers and you finally decide to want a family, then what? Whose the one who gets to quit their job? Neither of you want to quit? Ok, how about day care? Oh wait, how much do we have to pay for someone to raise our kids for us?? Can we even trust them? Ok, how about family? Lets ask our moms to take turns taking care of our kids for us. The moms who already spent their lives raising kids of their own but now we are forcing them to raise ours? Wait, our parents live in a different country/state, do we move mom to our house? Can't afford it? Ok lets move into mom's place.. You see where this is going?

I don't know about the rest of the guys here but, I work because I have to.. Not because I want to show some kind of self accomplishment. Don't get me wrong either, I absolutely agree with women wanting to get an education and being able to provide for themselves if it comes down to that because we live in a time where things aren't what they used to be and everywhere you look, people are getting divorced left and right so it's important for both men and women to have the capability to earn some kind of income but, if you simply want to work for the sake of arguing that "anything you can do I can do better", I'll tell you right now there are much greater things you can do if you're all about accomplishing goals.

One last thing. I don't know how old you are, if you work or how many jobs you've had but, there is nothing glamorous about working a full time job. If you work for fun or have a part time job to make some extra spending money here and there, that's one thing. Working out of necessity and to be a provider is a completely different ball game. Just remember that you're a number out there and that there is always someone behind you to take your spot. It's a very competitive world our there and it can get nasty. It doesn't matter how many years of experience you have, what kind of education you have, or how loyal you were to your employer, you may be laid off with no option for a rehire just like that for no reason (at least where I live). Even if that's illegal where you're from, there are ways around it. The market for your type of work may not be in demand so getting another job won't always be easy. Even if other companies are hiring, you may be OVER qualified, so now if the employer is interested in you, you will probably have to take a pay cut. I can go on with the different scenarios but this is already getting pretty long. Just a few things to think about.

I don't come on here often so I had to lay it all out there at once. My intention isn't to offend anyone either, so please don't take it that way :)
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EgyptPrincess
05-30-2016, 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by keiv
Well, it's all about perspective I guess. If I work a 70+ hours in a week doing physical work and my wife works in a cubicle sitting in front of the computer, I'll be damned if I'm getting on my knees scrubbing the floor. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing that responsibility but, again, it's not something that you can look at and say "ok both of us work so we both have to split the chores in half". Now if only one of you are working, then the person who isn't working better be up for it. Just so you get a better picture of me, I'm not married and I live on my own so I've been self sufficient my whole life, so I don't have a "maid" at home working for me.

Also be careful for what you ask for. If you want to work for the rest of your adult life until you retire (if you retire), then by all means go for it. If you want to get married and the guy is working but you also want to peruse a career and both of you agree on that, then go for it. If you end up getting married and both have successful careers and you finally decide to want a family, then what? Whose the one who gets to quit their job? Neither of you want to quit? Ok, how about day care? Oh wait, how much do we have to pay for someone to raise our kids for us?? Can we even trust them? Ok, how about family? Lets ask our moms to take turns taking care of our kids for us. The moms who already spent their lives raising kids of their own but now we are forcing them to raise ours? Wait, our parents live in a different country/state, do we move mom to our house? Can't afford it? Ok lets move into mom's place.. You see where this is going?

I don't know about the rest of the guys here but, I work because I have to.. Not because I want to show some kind of self accomplishment. Don't get me wrong either, I absolutely agree with women wanting to get an education and being able to provide for themselves if it comes down to that because we live in a time where things aren't what they used to be and everywhere you look, people are getting divorced left and right so it's important for both men and women to have the capability to earn some kind of income but, if you simply want to work for the sake of arguing that "anything you can do I can do better", I'll tell you right now there are much greater things you can do if you're all about accomplishing goals.

One last thing. I don't know how old you are, if you work or how many jobs you've had but, there is nothing glamorous about working a full time job. If you work for fun or have a part time job to make some extra spending money here and there, that's one thing. Working out of necessity and to be a provider is a completely different ball game. Just remember that you're a number out there and that there is always someone behind you to take your spot. It's a very competitive world our there and it can get nasty. It doesn't matter how many years of experience you have, what kind of education you have, or how loyal you were to your employer, you may be laid off with no option for a rehire just like that for no reason (at least where I live). Even if that's illegal where you're from, there are ways around it. The market for your type of work may not be in demand so getting another job won't always be easy. Even if other companies are hiring, you may be OVER qualified, so now if the employer is interested in you, you will probably have to take a pay cut. I can go on with the different scenarios but this is already getting pretty long. Just a few things to think about.

I don't come on here often so I had to lay it all out there at once. My intention isn't to offend anyone either, so please don't take it that way :)
No offence taken and you make some great points. When it comes to one of you quitting your job I think it should obviously be the women because ultimately, children need their mothers and I do not agree with letting someone else raise your children. Money would not really be an issue for those years you spend raising the children because all the time you and your husband spent working you would have saved up a nice bit of money which means one of you can afford to quit your job and still meet the financial requirements for a good few years if the husband keeps working while you stay home and raise the kids.

I'm 17 and never had a job before but I'm not talking about working in Tesco or a call centre, who the hell would actually want to do that? Not me that's for sure. I hope to pursue a career in biochemistry and I'm super excited about the prospects of working in this field so naturally I'm really looking forward to getting my first job. There is always the risk of unemployment and hardships etc but some people honestly do want to work, I don't know why this is so hard to believe. Especially if the field they work in is exciting.
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Arfa
05-30-2016, 03:55 PM
Walikumassalam,
:)In today's culture it's pretty common to hire maids too.Specially in Pakistan maids are hired for household chores which is good when amount of work is over loaded.Im fond of cooking for my family and absolutely love it when my dad appreciates my cooking.Cleaning,Dusting and mopping are also some of the chores that are involved.....It's essential to learn these skills to such an extent atleast where you can feed yourself and your family if occasion provides.Husband should also accept what little skills wife has and probably rely sometimes on takeaway if wife is sick or not in mood to cook etc.Marriage is truly all about teamwork and cooperation.Moreover One should atleast know basics about theses skills and try to compensate from that level onwards.
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Delphi
06-07-2016, 07:33 PM
It's nice to see people who are muslim taking a varied and one might say "liberated" approach to gender. I was always convinced "it wasn't about what you are wearing, but what's in your heart". I find this thread a bit refreshing, and a wake up call to people who are mindlessly bigotted.
Feminism to me is an extension of the west's life blood. Freedom, Egalite, Liberte, Fraternite. The right to do what you want, as long as it doesn't hurt other people. An end to religious superstition and taboos that kept humanity enslaved and in darkness for thousands of years. I'm an agnostic - I apply that principle across most/all religions, especially any religion that seeks to co-erce using force (most did pre 100 years ago). It's that principle of freedom, tolerance, and equal rights for all that's led the west to try and co-operate with all nations on earth and seek a global peace. It's that freedom that guarantees equal rights based on grounds of religion. It's freedom for all, or freedom for none. Please remember this the next time you look badly upon a western GLBT or feminist. Generally, so far, we've stood behind islamic liberty.
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Karl
06-07-2016, 11:10 PM
"It's that principle of freedom, tolerance, and equal rights for all that's led the west to try and co-operate with all nations on earth and seek a global peace." Are you kidding? The West is about control and oppression under the Zionist boot. If a nation does not cow tow to the West it is attacked with propaganda, meddled with by paid agitators to destabilize the government and if that doesn't work bombed to destruction. The West is the Beast at this point of time, playing the Angel while slaughtering and crushing nations with money and bombs. And you are obviously one of it's many minions. Pro Western propaganda will only work on the most foolish of Muslims.
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EgyptPrincess
06-07-2016, 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by Karl
"It's that principle of freedom, tolerance, and equal rights for all that's led the west to try and co-operate with all nations on earth and seek a global peace." Are you kidding? The West is about control and oppression under the Zionist boot. If a nation does not cow tow to the West it is attacked with propaganda, meddled with by paid agitators to destabilize the government and if that doesn't work bombed to destruction. The West is the Beast at this point of time, playing the Angel while slaughtering and crushing nations with money and bombs. And you are obviously one of it's many minions. Pro Western propaganda will only work on the most foolish of Muslims.
It's not that bad bro.
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Karl
06-08-2016, 10:05 PM
I have strayed off topic so to put things right all I can say to Muslim females and males too is only be guided by the Holy Quran and Hadiths and all that is Islam. Don't be guided by the infidels, no matter how sweet their ideas may appear to you. They are always working to tear you from the righteous path with their mind control games. That is why the Prophet said not to live amongst the kuffar. Because the Muslims of weak will would be turned to kuffar.
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Marina-Aisha
06-10-2016, 11:22 AM
i have say im one those women my mum didnt teach me any those things and i wish she had cos it was hard learning on my own at first did cause alot agruments with my husband as im very messy person he like clean freak haha but ive got better my cooking is good nw my housework still needs improving but i would never ask my mum do it for me or hire maid learn how to do it urself...hw ur children gonna learn if u dont learn??!
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~ Sabr ~
06-11-2016, 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
It's not about trying to be a man. If I wanted to be a man I'd lift weights, watch football and get a job in construction. Most women don't want to be categorised... ie you are a women so you belong in the kitchen. I am a women and I belong wherever the hell I choose. Same rights as a man.

If I wanted to cook for a living I'd be a chef, if I wanted to clean for a living I'd be a maid. I want to do what I want, not what people think I should be doing. Yes I would cook for my husband and clean the house and take care of the kids but I also expect my husband to do his fair share to help out. I totally understand if he works all day and I do not, then I would not even want him to lift a finger with the chores because he works all day so the household duties fall to the wife.

You have to understand that people are different and want different things. Some women may love nothing more than to be at home all day cooking and cleaning for their husband and to serve his food and this brings them great joy, fantastic, hooray for you. Some women don't like to do this but seeking an alternative to cooking and cleaning is somehow being feminist. It's called having equal rights.

Even if my husband earned £125k a year I would still WANT to work. Not to show him that I'm "a man" but because I want my own self accomplishment and I want to be successful.

I have no problem with men that want their wives to be maids, what I have a problem with is when they think that is where we belong. If my husband tried forcing me to be a hermit maid and stay in doors all day I'd tell him to sling his hook.
I would never EVER give up my career. Right now I am on a career break because of personal reasons, but I have full intention :ia: of going back to work. My Career is my life!
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Scimitar
06-11-2016, 02:53 PM
SO what is Islam then? :D such dumb statements like "my career is my life" make me roll eyes.

Scimi
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~ Sabr ~
06-11-2016, 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by Timi Scar
SO what is Islam then? :D such dumb statements like "my career is my life" make me roll eyes.

Scimi
I can see you are very rude to people, Scimi, and you need to sort yourself out. It is Ramadan.

My career is my life means I CANNOT be without my career. I work in a hospital and I love helping people, I love making sure all treatments are correct so patients don't have to wait long, I love making life easy for people. This is why my career is my life because it's mannerisms are part of Islam.

Next time use your brain and think before you speak.

Thank you!
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