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Scimitar
06-10-2016, 09:52 PM
Muslim Identity & the fall of the New World Order.

Who are the Muslims?

It is this fundamental question which cuts to the very heart of a global Muslim awakening. It is this question which explains why Western powers are currently murdering their way across the Muslim world. In our history lies the answers, not only to who we are, but also the reason behind the need to eradicate our history and supplant it with one made in the dark corridors of European powers.

In 1915 a small cabal of Western notables such as Churchill, Kitchener and the then Prime Minister Lloyd George met. Driven by their Christian beliefs, financial gain & a hatred of Islam, they plotted the re-structuring of the Muslim world and most importantly the restructuring of Muslim identity.

muslimhistoryjpgresize7022C336 1 -

They realised that by breaking African slaves’ link to their pasts and distorting their self image, they were able to create a pacified, compliant people. Black leaders such as Fredrick Douglass and Malcolm X illustrated how vital this deliberate distortion was in the continued subjugation of their people. In their autobiographies they highlighted the destructive effect this had on the minds of black people to the extent it made them hate the very skin they were born in — and taught them to hate each other.

By the First World War, Western leaders had perfected their psychological cudgel and they used it to full effect, whilst carving up the Ottoman Empire. Naomi Klein, in her excellent book The Shock Doctrine, explains when Western Governments wanted to change the way people thought, it was best to do so after a significant trauma. For in that moment, people would lose their sense of orientation in the world; how they understood themselves and in this confused state — a new narrative could be implanted.

An example of this Shock Doctrine is evident in our own lifetimes. 911 was a recent example, coupled with 7/7 and the other red flags events manufactured by the imperial west.



As the colonisers brutalized those they now occupied, the shocked populace were given a new narrative, deliberately intended to break their spirit. The social engineering was interwoven into the very apparatus of the newly created ‘Muslim States. Prior to the restructuring, the Muslim world saw themselves as Muslim. In the new world the Muslims saw themselves in a myriad of ways — as Arabs, Kurds, Turks etc, who were further fragmented into the newly manufactured identities of Syrians, Iraqis, Lebanese or Jordanians etc.

Much like many Hindus or Buddhists see themselves today. Islam itself would not be eradicated — simply changed — by muting its political voice. Those who accepted their new identities would still be allowed to follow the rituals of Islam as long as they did not speak of the ethical demands of their Prophet’s message. This original understanding of Islam — to uphold justice on Earth — was the priority, with the ritual simply upholding this mission. Now this has been reversed.

The colonizers promoted a passive, apolitical version of the original revolutionary message of Muhammad (pbuh) the same way Christianity’s ethical message was undermined by the political powers at the time, by inserting the Biblical words “Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and give unto God what is God’s.” In short pray to God — but leave the world to us.

map 1916 secret 1 -
The MAP drawn up by the Sykes-Picot Agreement that would manufacture new nations for the Muslims.

Equally, if the colonial masters could convince Muslims that they were spiritually Muslims but politically Palestinians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis — and so on — then their national vision would always be limited to the needs of that individual nation. There could be no global Muslim cause. No united Muslim freedom struggle, only a localised nationalistic one. A people could never rise in unity, if they no longer saw themselves as a single unified oppressed people. This is the genius of changing the identity of those you rule.

While this benefited Western powers, it has destroyed the Muslim world. As a result, violence, chaos and senseless death has become the order of the day in the Muslim world. The Prophet (pbuh) long ago predicted the continuing chaos near the end of time saying, “I see pain falling on your houses like rain.” His prediction has proven correct.

Over the following century the Muslim world would go through continuous trauma. Extreme ideologies would take root due to internal and external players. The West continued its plan of backing secularist dictators and at the same time supporting the puppet Kingdoms of Uber conservative clergy. Both would ruthlessly do whatever it took to keep power. The desperate oppression the populations now lived under was the incubator for a violent and extreme reaction.

A relatively safe and stable Muslim world had previously produced liberal-minded philosophers; poets and men of science; created marvels like the Taj-Mahal; and brought enlightenment to Europe through Muslim Spain. Now that same Muslim world produced broken, angry men, who had lost all hope in a world of poverty, repression and endless brutal wars. Men who had no direction. A lost people.

For this reason the Muslim world has become an increasingly intolerant place. Religious groups too became increasingly intolerant, especially of other religious groups. Without an Islam that gave them an ethical purpose for the world, their minor ritual and theological differences became bitter differences. They looked for internal enemies in theology to fight and ignored the giant global war the external enemies were waging.

Despite this a new phenomenon was occurring, one that was a real threat to the neo-colonial order. Pragmatic Muslim political thinkers started to emerge. And it was these thinkers who started to decode their place in the world. They started to rediscover their history and, through it, the slow process of unraveling what their colonial masters and nationalist dictators had long sought to erase from their consciousness — a free, pre-colonial identity.

These Muslims now started to see themselves as believers in ONE struggle to free their people — and this idea started to spread. A Muslim identity started to re-emerge out of the ashes.

To Global Powers this meant a challenge to the order they had imposed upon the Muslims. To protect that order and destroy the Muslim awakening at its embryonic stage, the Western powers went to war: thus the subsequent invasions, dictators, droning of villages across the Muslim world; the kidnapping of tens of thousands of Muslims from their homes in the dark of night, to be transported across the world to even darker prisons to be tortured to death were all done to stop a new identity becoming a political force.

It is the re-emergence of the Muslim identity; the reawakening of the central premise of Islam; that is re-shaping the whole Muslim world—and in the process — bringing down a world order.

I leave you with the words of Malcolm X



Scimi
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*charisma*
06-10-2016, 09:57 PM
Assalamu Alaikum
@Timi Scar have you ever read the Lynch Letter??
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Scimitar
06-10-2016, 10:02 PM
Yes, I have - throw it in here sis.


(don't be laughing at my voice either lol)

Scimi
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*charisma*
06-10-2016, 10:06 PM
I was going to make a post about it earlier subhanallah..i guess your thread would be a good place to post it :D

(look at that, me adding to your posts and not deleting, already seems out of my nature ;D)
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*charisma*
06-10-2016, 10:21 PM
THE LYNCH LETTER


This speech was said to have been delivered by Willie Lynch on the bank of the James River in the colony of Virginia in 1712. Lynch was a British slave owner in the West Indies. He was invited to the colony of Virginia in 1712 to teach his methods to slave owners there.


Greetings,

Gentlemen. I greet you here on the bank of the James River in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and twelve. First, I shall thank you, the gentlemen of the Colony of Virginia, for bringing me here. I am here to help you solve some of your problems with slaves. Your invitation reached me on my modest plantation in the West Indies, where I have experimented with some of the newest, and still the oldest, methods for control of slaves. Ancient Rome would envy us if my program is implemented. As our boat sailed south on the James River, named for our illustrious King, whose version of the Bible we cherish, I saw enough to know that your problem is not unique. While Rome used cords of wood as crosses for standing human bodies along its highways in great numbers, you are here using the tree and the rope on occasions. I caught the whiff of a dead slave hanging from a tree, a couple miles back. You are not only losing valuable stock by hangings, you are having uprisings, slaves are running away, your crops are sometimes left in the fields too long for maximum profit, you suffer occasional fires, your animals are killed. Gentlemen, you know what your problems are; I do not need to elaborate. I am not here to enumerate your problems, I am here to introduce you to a method of solving them. In my bag here, I HAVE A FULL PROOF METHOD FOR CONTROLLING YOUR BLACK SLAVES. I guarantee every one of you that, if installed correctly, IT WILL CONTROL THE SLAVES FOR AT LEAST 300 HUNDREDS YEARS. My method is simple. Any member of your family or your overseer can use it. I HAVE OUTLINED A NUMBER OF DIFFERENCES AMONG THE SLAVES; AND I TAKE THESE DIFFERENCES AND MAKE THEM BIGGER. I USE FEAR, DISTRUST AND ENVY FOR CONTROL PURPOSES. These methods have worked on my modest plantation in the West Indies and it will work throughout the South. Take this simple little list of differences and think about them. On top of my list is “AGE,” but it’s there only because it starts with an “a.” The second is “COLOR” or shade. There is INTELLIGENCE, SIZE, SEX, SIZES OF PLANTATIONS, STATUS on plantations, ATTITUDE of owners, whether the slaves live in the valley, on a hill, East, West, North, South, have fine hair, course hair, or is tall or short. Now that you have a list of differences, I shall give you an outline of action, but before that, I shall assure you that DISTRUST IS STRONGER THAN TRUST AND ENVY STRONGER THAN ADULATION, RESPECT OR ADMIRATION. The Black slaves after receiving this indoctrination shall carry on and will become self-refueling and self-generating for HUNDREDS of years, maybe THOUSANDS. Don’t forget, you must pitch the OLD black male vs. the YOUNG black male, and the YOUNG black male against the OLD black male. You must use the DARK skin slaves vs. the LIGHT skin slaves, and the LIGHT skin slaves vs. the DARK skin slaves. You must use the FEMALE vs. the MALE, and the MALE vs. the FEMALE. You must also have white servants and overseers [who] distrust all Blacks. But it is NECESSARY THAT YOUR SLAVES TRUST AND DEPEND ON US. THEY MUST LOVE, RESPECT AND TRUST ONLY US. Gentlemen, these kits are your keys to control. Use them. Have your wives and children use them, never miss an opportunity. IF USED INTENSELY FOR ONE YEAR, THE SLAVES THEMSELVES WILL REMAIN PERPETUALLY DISTRUSTFUL. Thank you gentlemen.”

LET’S MAKE A SLAVE

[...] Frederick Douglas LET’S MAKE A SLAVE is a study of the scientific process of man-breaking and slave-making. It describes the rationale and results of the Anglo Saxons’ ideas and methods of insuring the master/slave relationship. LET’S MAKE A SLAVE “The Original and Development of a Social Being Called ‘The Negro.’” Let us make a slave. What do we need? First of all, we need a black n***** man, a pregnant n***** woman and her baby n***** boy. Second, we will use the same basic principle that we use in breaking a horse, combined with some more sustaining factors. What we do with horses is that we break them from one form of life to another; that is, we reduce them from their natural state in nature. Whereas nature provides them with the natural capacity to take care of their offspring, we break that natural string of independence from them and thereby create a dependency status, so that we may be able to get from them useful production for our business and pleasure.

CARDINAL PRINCIPLES FOR MAKING A NEGRO

For fear that our future generations may not understand the principles of breaking both of the beast together, the n***** and the horse. We understand that short range planning economics results in periodic economic chaos; so that to avoid turmoil in the economy, it requires us to have breadth and depth in long range comprehensive planning, articulating both skill sharp perceptions. We lay down the following principles for long range comprehensive economic planning. Both horse and ******s [are] no good to the economy in the wild or natural state. Both must be BROKEN and TIED together for orderly production. For orderly future, special and particular attention must be paid to the FEMALE and the YOUNGEST offspring. Both must be CROSSBRED to produce a variety and division of labor. Both must be taught to respond to a peculiar new LANGUAGE. Psychological and physical instruction of CONTAINMENT must be created for both. We hold the six cardinal principles as truth to be self-evident, based upon following the discourse concerning the economics of breaking and tying the horse and the ****** together, all inclusive of the six principles laid down above. NOTE: Neither principle alone will suffice for good economics. All principles must be employed for orderly good of the nation. Accordingly, both a wild horse and a wild or natur[al] ****** is dangerous even if captured, for they will have the tendency to seek their customary freedom and, in doing so, might kill you in your sleep. You cannot rest. They sleep while you are awake, and are awake while you are asleep. They are DANGEROUS near the family house and it requires too much labor to watch them away from the house. Above all, you cannot get them to work in this natural state. Hence, both the horse and the ****** must be broken; that is breaking them from one form of mental life to another. KEEP THE BODY, TAKE THE MIND! In other words, break the will to resist. Now the breaking process is the same for both the horse and the ******, only slightly varying in degrees. But, as we said before, there is an art in long range economic planning. YOU MUST KEEP YOUR EYE AND THOUGHTS ON THE FEMALE and the OFFSPRING of the horse and the ******. A brief discourse in offspring development will shed light on the key to sound economic principles. Pay little attention to the generation of original breaking, but CONCENTRATE ON FUTURE GENERATION. Therefore, if you break the FEMALE mother, she will BREAK the offspring in its early years of development; and when the offspring is old enough to work, she will deliver it up to you, for her normal female protective tendencies will have been lost in the original breaking process. For example, take the case of the wild stud horse, a female horse and an already infant horse and compare the breaking process with two captured ****** males in their natural state, a pregnant ****** woman with her infant offspring. Take the stud horse, break him for limited containment. Completely break the female horse until she becomes very gentle, whereas you or anybody can ride her in her comfort. Breed the mare and the stud until you have the desired offspring. Then, you can turn the stud to freedom until you need him again. Train the female horse whereby she will eat out of your hand, and she will in turn train the infant horse to eat out of your hand, also. When it comes to breaking the uncivilized ******, use the same process, but vary the degree and step up the pressure, so as to do a complete reversal of the mind. Take the meanest and most restless ******, strip him of his clothes in front of the remaining male ******s, the female, and the ****** infant, tar and feather him, tie each leg to a different horse faced in opposite directions, set him afire and beat both horses to pull him apart in front of the remaining ******s. The next step is to take a bullwhip and beat the remaining ****** males to the point of death, in front of the female and the infant. Don’t kill him, but PUT THE FEAR OF GOD IN HIM, for he can be useful for future breeding.

THE BREAKING PROCESS OF THE AFRICAN WOMAN

Take the female and run a series of tests on her to see if she will submit to your desires willingly. Test her in every way, because she is the most important factor for good economics. If she shows any sign of resistance in submitting completely to your will, do not hesitate to use the bullwhip on her to extract that last bit of [b----] out of her. Take care not to kill her, for in doing so, you spoil good economics. When in complete submission, she will train her offsprings in the early years to submit to labor when they become of age. Understanding is the best thing. Therefore, we shall go deeper into this area of the subject matter concerning what we have produced here in this breaking process of the female ******. We have reversed the relationship; in her natural uncivilized state, she would have a strong dependency on the uncivilized ****** male, and she would have a limited protective tendency toward her independent male offspring and would raise male offsprings to be dependent like her. Nature had provided for this type of balance. We reversed nature by burning and pulling a civilized ****** apart and bullwhipping the other to the point of death, all in her presence. By her being left alone, unprotected, with the MALE IMAGE DESTROYED, the ordeal caused her to move from her psychologically dependent state to a frozen, independent state. In this frozen, psychological state of independence, she will raise her MALE and female offspring in reversed roles. For FEAR of the young male’s life, she will psychologically train him to be MENTALLY WEAK and DEPENDENT, but PHYSICALLY STRONG. Because she has become psychologically independent, she will train her FEMALE offsprings to be psychologically independent. What have you got? You’ve got the ****** WOMAN OUT FRONT AND THE ****** MAN BEHIND AND SCARED. This is a perfect situation of sound sleep and economics. Before the breaking process, we had to be alertly on guard at all times. Now, we can sleep soundly, for out of frozen fear his woman stands guard for us. He cannot get past her early slave-molding process. He is a good tool, now ready to be tied to the horse at a tender age. By the time a ****** boy reaches the age of sixteen, he is soundly broken in and ready for a long life of sound and efficient work and the reproduction of a unit of good labor force. Continually through the breaking of uncivilized savage ******s, by throwing the ****** female savage into a frozen psychological state of independence, by killing the protective male image, and by creating a submissive dependent mind of the ****** male slave, we have created an orbiting cycle that turns on its own axis forever, unless a phenomenon occurs and re-shifts the position of the male and female slaves. We show what we mean by example. Take the case of the two economic slave units and examine them close.

THE NEGRO MARRIAGE

We breed two ****** males with two ****** females. Then, we take the ****** male away from them and keep them moving and working. Say one ****** female bears a ****** female and the other bears a ****** male; both ****** females—being without influence of the ****** male image, frozen with a independent psychology—will raise their offspring into reverse positions. The one with the female offspring will teach her to be like herself, independent and negotiable (we negotiate with her, through her, by her, negotiates her at will). The one with the ****** male offspring, she being frozen subconscious fear for his life, will raise him to be mentally dependent and weak, but physically strong; in other words, body over mind. Now, in a few years when these two offsprings become fertile for early reproduction, we will mate and breed them and continue the cycle. That is good, sound and long range comprehensive planning.

WARNING: POSSIBLE INTERLOPING NEGATIVES


Earlier, we talked about the non-economic good of the horse and the ****** in their wild or natural state; we talked out the principle of breaking and tying them together for orderly production. Furthermore, we talked about paying particular attention to the female savage and her offspring for orderly future planning, then more recently we stated that, by reversing the positions of the male and female savages, we created an orbiting cycle that turns on its own axis forever unless a phenomenon occurred and reshifts positions of the male and female savages. Our experts warned us about the possibility of this phenomenon occurring, for they say that the mind has a strong drive to correct and re-correct itself over a period of time if it can touch some substantial original historical base; and they advised us that the best way to deal with the phenomenon is to shave off the brute’s mental history and create a multiplicity of phenomena of illusions, so that each illusion will twirl in its own orbit, something similar to floating balls in a vacuum. This creation of multiplicity of phenomena of illusions entails the principle of crossbreeding the ****** and the horse as we stated above, the purpose of which is to create a diversified division of labor; thereby creating different levels of labor and different values of illusion at each connecting level of labor. The results of which is the severance of the points of original beginnings for each sphere illusion. Since we feel that the subject matter may get more complicated as we proceed in laying down our economic plan concerning the purpose, reason and effect of crossbreeding horses and ******s, we shall lay down the following definition terms for future generations. Orbiting cycle means a thing turning in a given path. Axis means upon which or around which a body turns. Phenomenon means something beyond ordinary conception and inspires awe and wonder. Multiplicity means a great number. Means a globe. Crossbreeding a horse means taking a horse and breeding it with an ass and you get a dumb, backward, ass long-headed mule that is not reproductive nor productive by itself. Crossbreeding ******s mean taking so many drops of good white blood and putting them into as many ****** women as possible, varying the drops by the various tone that you want, and then letting them breed with each other until another circle of color appears as you desire. What this means is this: Put the ******s and the horse in a breeding pot, mix some asses and some good white blood and what do you get? You got a multiplicity of colors of ass backward, unusual ******s, running, tied to backward ass long-headed mules, the one productive of itself, the other sterile. (The one constant, the other dying, we keep the ****** constant for we may replace the mules for another tool) both mule and ****** tied to each other, neither knowing where the other came from and neither productive for itself, nor without each other.

CONTROLLED LANGUAGE

Crossbreeding completed, for further severance from their original beginning, WE MUST COMPLETELY ANNIHILATE THE MOTHER TONGUE of both the new ****** and the new mule, and institute a new language that involves the new life’s work of both. You know language is a peculiar institution. It leads to the heart of a people. The more a foreigner knows about the language of another country the more he is able to move through all levels of that society. Therefore, if the foreigner is an enemy of the country, to the extent that he knows the body of the language, to that extent is the country vulnerable to attack or invasion of a foreign culture. For example, if you take a slave, if you teach him all about your language, he will know all your secrets, and he is then no more a slave, for you can’t fool him any longer, and BEING A FOOL IS ONE OF THE BASIC INGREDIENTS OF ANY INCIDENTS TO THE MAINTENANCE OF THE SLAVERY SYSTEM. For example, if you told a slave that he must perform in getting out “our crops” and he knows the language well, he would know that “our crops” didn’t mean “our crops” and the slavery system would break down, for he would relate on the basis of what “our crops” really meant. So you have to be careful in setting up the new language; for the slaves would soon be in your house, talking to you as “man to man” and that is death to our economic system. In addition, the definitions of words or terms are only a minute part of the process. Values are created and transported by communication through the body of the language. A total society has many interconnected value systems. All the values in the society have bridges of language to connect them for orderly working in the society. But for these language bridges, these many value systems would sharply clash and cause internal strife or civil war, the degree of the conflict being determined by the magnitude of the issues or relative opposing strength in whatever form. For example, if you put a slave in a hog pen and train him to live there and incorporate in him to value it as a way of life completely, the biggest problem you would have out of him is that he would worry you about provisions to keep the hog pen clean, or the same hog pen and make a slip and incorporate something in his language whereby he comes to value a house more than he does his hog pen, you got a problem. He will soon be in your house.
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Eric H
06-11-2016, 06:56 PM
Greetings and peace be with you *charisma*;

By the way, you shouldn't be saying, omg 10 years on IB, it should be, omg I'm not 10 anymore !!!


@Timi Scar have you ever read the Lynch Letter??
Rich and powerful people can be ruthless, Herman Goering used a lot less words than Lynch....

"Of course people don't want war. Why should a poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best thing he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?"

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." — Hermann Goering
In the spirit of praying for the poor and oppressed.

Eric
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*charisma*
06-11-2016, 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
By the way, you shouldn't be saying, omg 10 years on IB, it should be, omg I'm not 10 anymore !!!
;D yes perfectly said..but I should probably change it to something else anyways.


Originally Posted by Eric H
Rich and powerful people can be ruthless, Herman Goering used a lot less words than Lynch....
Its interesting how the likes of Gramsci and Friere challenged the bourgeoisie having no power at all. Once people believe their power has been taken away, then they are weak. But essentially the power is with the majority, it's just that the majority is sometimes not bright enough to figure out that they have been influenced to to be a certain way because it's "for the greater good."
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Eric H
06-11-2016, 09:16 PM
Greetings and peace be with you *charisma*;

But essentially the power is with the majority, it's just that the majority is sometimes not bright enough to figure out that they have been influenced to to be a certain way because it's "for the greater good."
The greater good generally means the greatest good of a very few people.

The vast and growing gap between rich and poor has been laid bare in a new Oxfam report showing that the 62 richest billionaires own as much wealth as the poorer half of the world’s population.

the report calls for urgent action to deal with a trend showing that 1% of people own more wealth than the other 99% combined.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ation-combined
In the spirit of praying for justice for all people.

Eric
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muslimah_B
06-14-2016, 01:33 AM
I felt sick reading that lynch letter

[emoji15] [emoji15] [emoji15]

I guess no-one learns from history as people still have these mind-sets especially in Europe with the high influx of immigration and a few scaggily people from the uk who think its a plan to wipe out the white race, but who is it anybodys business who anyone chooses for a husband/wife and to have kids with ?!?
People throughout history poke their noses into things that have absolutely nothing to do with them
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Scimitar
03-20-2017, 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by muslimah_B
I felt sick reading that lynch letter

[emoji15] [emoji15] [emoji15]

I guess no-one learns from history...
hmmm,

I agree. These days hardly anyone knows how to study history with the comparative method. So many are aware that history is written by the victor, but who is checking the accuracy of the victor's statement?

If we all sparked a conscious interest in our own very real history, we'd leave the so called "experts" trembling in fear because we'd expose their lies in a jiffy.

But like I said in a thread elsewhere, i think it was the euphrates thread and the syria one - Muslims today are the most ignorant people on the planet - and I believe that wholly.

Scimi
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M.I.A.
03-20-2017, 06:28 PM
its upsetting.

why do you want to learn history for?

to claim your empires? your education?

once were kangz and stuff? ultimate warriors?

i dont even think it would take much to get people "inspired"

but the journey uphill is not without merits

please dont make a mockery of yourselves.. or lay claim to other peoples sacrifices..

allah swt raises and lowers as he wills.


billions of muslims and they already told you it would be like foam on the sea..

or something like that.

just tryna earn an honest buck.
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Scottish Celt
03-20-2017, 08:02 PM
I west to a Christian school through kindergarden right through to high school,they would never teach this,it was so biased towards western culture that they could do no wrong,they were seen as the hero's,:hmm:
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Scimitar
03-20-2017, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by Scottish Celt
I west to a Christian school through kindergarden right through to high school,they would never teach this,it was so biased towards western culture that they could do no wrong,they were seen as the hero's,:hmm:
Me too bro. All we were in the historical lessons was Kings n Queens of England, 10 bloody 66, and the two Word Wars, all from a very biased perspective.
And

And none of this was of any interest to me in any way at all. As a 10-16 year old in Secondary School, this crap was about as boring as it got. And the teachers too lacked any enthusiasm for actually teaching the subject. Now that i'm older, I can understand why. And I'm thankful they didn't push it on us as a gospel truth. I can say this because I met one of my teachers some years ago and she told me that she was not exactly, eye to eye with the curriculum at that time.

I kinda fell into the study of comparatives by what I once thought was accident, but now recognise as HIS subtle guidance. My parents were going to India, I went to the airport to see them off, this was almost two decades ago. At the airport, I sneaked away for a sneaky cigarette and found WH Smiths. I saw on the bestseller shelf, a book titled "Fingerprints of the Gods". Written by some shaggy looking dude named Grahame Hancock. So I bought i read the synopsis, and being a secret reader (had a reputation to protect lol) I decided to buy the book and hide it. When I got home, I started to read it and felt very VERY stupid. I had no idea what the heck I was reading lol. It was way too advanced for my young and foolish mind at the time.

they say, we stop being able to learn as effectively when we grow beyond 21 years. Well, I don't believe that. Let's just let it rest there. I went back to the book a few years later, and this time round, I was able to read a little more of it and understand it. A few years on, repeat process and better result, I was now starting to understand what Grahame was proposing and that he had a lot of opposition in the mainstream archaeological, anthropological and historical scientific communities. He was, what we would today call - fringe asylum stock, at that time. His comparative assessments, though not exactly convincing, were the first real case studies I personally had interest in. And that pursuit of truth, was borne inside of me on that very day because I loved not feeling "Ignorant" about things. reading all I could get my hands on, in secret, and then reaching a stage where my friends were strangers to me - we had nothing left in common. I had become estranged to them, due to my interests and pursuits. Some stuck around and are still friends with me today, but the majority went their ways - as happens in life :)

This led me to back to Islam eventually.

Allahu Akbar

Scimi
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Scottish Celt
03-20-2017, 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Me too bro. All we were in the historical lessons was Kings n Queens of England, 10 bloody 66, and the two Word Wars, all from a very biased perspective.
And

And none of this was of any interest to me in any way at all. As a 10-16 year old in Secondary School, this crap was about as boring as it got. And the teachers too lacked any enthusiasm for actually teaching the subject. Now that i'm older, I can understand why. And I'm thankful they didn't push it on us as a gospel truth. I can say this because I met one of my teachers some years ago and she told me that she was not exactly, eye to eye with the curriculum at that time.

I kinda fell into the study of comparatives by what I once thought was accident, but now recognise as HIS subtle guidance. My parents were going to India, I went to the airport to see them off, this was almost two decades ago. At the airport, I sneaked away for a sneaky cigarette and found WH Smiths. I saw on the bestseller shelf, a book titled "Fingerprints of the Gods". Written by some shaggy looking dude named Grahame Hancock. So I bought i read the synopsis, and being a secret reader (had a reputation to protect lol) I decided to buy the book and hide it. When I got home, I started to read it and felt very VERY stupid. I had no idea what the heck I was reading lol. It was way too advanced for my young and foolish mind at the time.

they say, we stop being able to learn as effectively when we grow beyond 21 years. Well, I don't believe that. Let's just let it rest there. I went back to the book a few years later, and this time round, I was able to read a little more of it and understand it. A few years on, repeat process and better result, I was now starting to understand what Grahame was proposing and that he had a lot of opposition in the mainstream archaeological, anthropological and historical scientific communities. He was, what we would today call - fringe asylum stock, at that time. His comparative assessments, though not exactly convincing, were the first real case studies I personally had interest in. And that pursuit of truth, was borne inside of me on that very day because I loved not feeling "Ignorant" about things. reading all I could get my hands on, in secret, and then reaching a stage where my friends were strangers to me - we had nothing left in common. I had become estranged to them, due to my interests and pursuits. Some stuck around and are still friends with me today, but the majority went their ways - as happens in life :)

This led me to back to Islam eventually.

Allahu Akbar

Scimi
Exactly the same teachings as me 1066 the battle of hastings etc(yawwwn) even Scottish history bored me,Rabbie Burns,Robert the bruce,Mary queen of Scots etc the only western history on these islands shores I liked & could relate to was Irish history & the 1916 uprising,but they were fighting Brittish Imperialism & the freedom & struggle of a 26/32 county free Ireland,I just wish they taught more unbiased/truthfull history at school.
Reply

Grandad
03-20-2017, 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar

they say, we stop being able to learn as effectively when we grow beyond 21 years. Well, I don't believe that.
Neither do I (at 71!)
Reply

Grandad
03-20-2017, 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by Scottish Celt
Exactly the same teachings as me 1066 the battle of hastings etc(yawwwn) even Scottish history bored me,Rabbie Burns,Robert the bruce,Mary queen of Scots etc the only western history on these islands shores I liked & could relate to was Irish history & the 1916 uprising,but they were fighting Brittish Imperialism & the freedom & struggle of a 26/32 county free Ireland,I just wish they taught more unbiased/truthfull history at school.
You mean they didn't????!!
Reply

Grandad
03-21-2017, 08:03 AM
What follows are extracts from two articles entitled: ‘DEATH OF THE WILLIE LYNCH SPEECH’ by Professor Manu Ampim; Historian and Primary (first-hand) Researcher specializing in African & African American history and culture. Prof. Ampim is also a professor of Africana Studies.

Extracted from Part One:

‘Since 1995 there has been much attention given to a speech claimed to be delivered by a “William Lynch” in 1712. This speech has been promoted widely throughout African American and Black British circles. It is re-printed on numerous websites, discussed in chat rooms, forwarded as a “did you know” email to friends and family members, assigned as required readings in college and high school courses, promoted at conferences, and there are several books published with the title of “Willie Lynch.” In addition, new terminology called the “Willie Lynch Syndrome” has been devised to explain the psychological problems and the disunity among Black people.

‘Further, it is naively assumed by a large number of Willie Lynch believers that this single and isolated speech, allegedly given almost 300 years ago, completely explains the internal problems and divisions within the African American community. They assume that the “Willie Lynch Syndrome” explains Black disunity and the psychological trauma of slavery. While some have questioned and even dismissed this speech from the outset, it is fair to say that most African Americans who are aware of the speech have not questioned its authenticity, and assume it to be a legitimate and very crucial historical document which explains what has happened to African Americans.

‘However, when we examine the details of the “Willie Lynch Speech” and its assumed influence, then it becomes clear that the belief in its authenticity and widespread adoption during the slavery era is nothing more than a modern myth. In this brief examination, I will show that the only known “William Lynch” was born three decades after the alleged speech, that the only known “William Lynch” did not own a plantation in the West Indies, that the “speech” was not mentioned by anyone in the 18th or 19th centuries, and that the “speech” itself clearly indicates that it was composed in the late 20th century.

‘The “Willie Lynch Speech” is not mentioned by any 18th or 19th century slavemasters or anti-slavery activists. There is a large body of written materials from the slavery era, yet there is not one reference to a William Lynch speech given in 1712. This is very curious because both free and enslaved African Americans wrote and spoke about the tactics and practices of white slavemasters……………..Also, there is not a single reference to the Lynch speech by any white abolitionists, including John Brown, William Lloyd Garrison, and Wendell Phillips. Similarly, there has been no evidence found of slavemasters or pro-slavery advocates referring to (not to mention utilizing) the specific divide and rule information given in the Lynch speech.

‘Since the Willie Lynch speech was not mentioned by any slavemasters, pro-slavery advocates, abolitionists, or historians studying the slavery era, the question of course is when did it appear?

The first reference to the Willie Lynch speech was in a late 1993 on-line listing of sources, posted by Anne Taylor, who was then the reference librarian at the University of Missouri at St. Louis………On October 31, 1995, Taylor wrote:

“Enough butt-covering, now it’s time to talk about where I got it. The publisher who gave me this (speech) wanted to remain anonymous…because he couldn’t trace it, either, and until now I’ve honored his wishes. It was printed in a local, widely-distributed, free publication called The St. Louis Black Pages, 9th anniversary edition, 1994*, page 8.”

The Lynch speech was distributed in the Black community in 1993 and 1994, and in fact I came across it during this time period, but as an historian trained in Africana Studies and primary research I never took it serious. I simply read it and put it in a file somewhere.

However, the Lynch speech was popularized at the Million Man March (held in Washington, DC) on October 16, 1995, when it was referred to by Min. Louis Farrakhan. He stated:

“We, as a people who have been fractured, divided and destroyed because of our division, now must move toward a perfect union. Let's look at a speech, delivered by a white slave holder on the banks of the James River in 1712... Listen to what he said. He said, 'In my bag, I have a foolproof method of controlling Black slaves. I guarantee everyone of you, if installed correctly, it will control the slaves for at least 300 years’…So spoke Willie Lynch 283 years ago.”

The 1995 Million Man March was broadcast live on C-Span television and thus millions of people throughout the U.S. and the world heard about the alleged Willie Lynch speech for the first time. Now, ten years later, the speech has become extremely popular, although many historians and critical thinkers questioned this strange and unique document from the outset.

(Prof Ampim then includes the full text of the ‘alleged’ Speech. He then asks: Who was Willie Lynch?).

Quote:

‘The only known “William Lynch” who could have authorized a 1712 speech in Virginia was born 30 years after the alleged speech was given. The only known “William Lynch” lived from 1742-1820 and was from Pittsylvania, Virginia. It is obvious that “William Lynch” could not have authored a document 30 years before he was born! This “William Lynch” never owned a plantation in the West Indies, and he did not own a slave plantation in Virginia.

‘The Lynch speech lists a number of divide and rule tactics that were not important concerns to slaveholders in the early 1700s, and they certainly were not adopted. The anonymous writer of the Lynch speech states, “I have outlined a number of differences among the slaves: and I take these differences and make them bigger.”……….However, none of these “tactics” were concerns to slaveholders in the early 1700s in the West Indies or colonial America. No credible historian has indicated that any of the items on the Lynch list were a part of a divide and rule strategy in the early 18th century. These are current 20th century divisions and concerns. (There then follows the Lynch speech tactics versus the real divide and rule tactics that were actually used in the early 18th century).

‘There are a number of terms in the alleged 1712 Lynch speech that are undoubtedly anachronisms (i.e. words that are out of their proper historical time period). Here are a few of the words in the speech that were not used until the 20th century:

‘Lynch speech: “In my bag here, I have a fool proof method for controlling your Black slaves.”

‘Anachronisms: “Fool proof” and “Black” with an upper-case “B” to refer to people of African descent are of 20th century origin. Capitalizing “Black” did not become a standard from of writing until the late 1960s.

‘Lynch speech: “The Black slave after receiving this indoctrination shall carry on and will become self re-fueling and self generating for hundreds of years.”

‘Anachronism: “Re-fueling” is a 20th century term which refers to transportation.

‘Lynch claims that his method of control will work for “at least 300 hundred years (sic).” First, it has gone unnoticed that the modern writer of the “speech” wrote three hundred twice (“300 hundred years”), which makes no grammatical sense. It should be “300 years” or “three hundred years.” Second, the arbitrary choice of 300 years is interesting because it happens to conveniently bring us to the present time.

‘Lynch claims that his method of control “will work throughout the South.” This statement clearly shows the modern writer’s historical ignorance. In 1712, there was no region in the current-day U.S. identified as the “South.” The geographical region of the “South” did not become distinct until a century after the alleged speech. Before the American Revolutionary War vs. Britain (1775-1783) the 13 original U.S. colonies were all slaveholding regions, and most of these colonies were in what later became the North, not the “South.” In fact, the region with the second largest slave population during the time of the alleged William Lynch speech was the northern city of New York, where there were a significant number of slave revolts including the rebellion in 1712.

‘It is clear that the “Willie Lynch Speech” is a late 20th century invention because of the numerous reasons outlined in this essay. I would advance that the likely candidate for such a superficial speech is an African American male in the 20s-30s age range, who probably minored in Black Studies in college. He had a limited knowledge of 18th century America, but unfortunately he fooled many uncritical Black people.’

Extracted from Part Two:

‘Since my first essay on the fictional “Willie Lynch” speech in the previous issue of Next Generation, there has been an overwhelming response to my analysis of this prevailing myth among Black people in the Western hemisphere.

‘There have been three main responses to my “Willie Lynch” essay, and 90% of these responses fall into the first two groups.

‘The first group of responses are from those people who were very thankful to read my work because they knew the "Willie Lynch" speech was fake, but they had no real proof. Before reading the evidence presented in my essay, this group either ignored this fake speech, or they argued against its authenticity without the ammunition that my critique provides.

‘The second group of people also responded to my essay very favorably. However, this group initially assumed that the alleged speech was authentic and thus shared it with many people in their network. They simply never thought to ask themselves whether or not the speech was legitimate. Since reading my analysis of the Lynch speech, this group now sees it as a modern hoax and have indicated that they are going back to their networks to announce that the Will Lynch speech is a modern fake. I have the utmost respect for this group, because they have a high degree of integrity to admit that they had made a mistake and was now going back to make corrections.

‘The final group represents about 10% of the responses to my Lynch essay, and most of these people suffer from a complete lack of critical thinking skills. Many of them claim that "even if the speech is fake it is still true!" Their position is essentially that "the speech is important to me, and I don't care that it is probably fake, I still believe it is true." Some of these people have stated that they go so far as to meditate on the speech every day or every week! This group vows to continue using the Willie Lynch speech because they believe it to be an important "wake up" call for Black people. However, they fail to realize that the fake speech is only concerned with what a white slave-owner supposedly said, and there is no agenda or program for Black people to act upon. Also, they fail to understand that few people would consider trusting someone who they know will openly lie when it serves their interests.

‘If the Willie Lynch speech supporters are sincere and want to learn about influential and prominent pro-slavery advocates in the 1700s and 1800s, then they should read the recent book by Paul Finkelman, Defending Slavery: Proslavery Thought in the Old South (A Brief History with Documents) (2003). Of course, of all the most influential people noted in this study neither "Willie Lynch” nor his alleged speech are mentioned in this work.

‘As I indicated in Part I, there is absolutely no record of a 1712 Willie Lynch speech or any of the Lynch tactics being used in the 18th century, or referred to by any historians, pro-slavery advocates, or anti-slavery abolitionists in the 18th or 19th century. There is no doubt that the fake Lynch document is of late 20th century origin, and thus far it cannot be traced back before 1993. The problem with believing silly internet fairy tales is that if we don't know the origin of a problem then it is impossible to create a solution, because the ideas are based on false information. Black people will never be respected as an intelligent people or solve any of our major problems by believing in kindergarten internet myths.

‘In the arena of serious scholarship and primary (first-hand) research, the standing rule is that “documentation beats conversation.” There is a fundamental difference between proof and propaganda, between evidence and ideology, and between knowledge and mere belief. In the next five years the Lynch speech will likely be a forgotten myth of the past.’

But not yet……not yet.

http://manuampim.com/lynch_hoax1.html (Part 1)

http://manuampim.com/lynch_hoax2.html (Part 2)
Reply

Scottish Celt
03-21-2017, 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by Grandad
You mean they didn't????!!
sorry,didnt what?
Reply

Grandad
03-21-2017, 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by Scottish Celt
sorry,didnt what?
Teach unbiased and honest history.
Reply

Scottish Celt
03-21-2017, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by Grandad
Teach unbiased and honest history.
they didn't teach history of the 1916 easter rising though,that would have been a ''bad'' thing in their eye's,i learned about that when I left school,although in Ireland it would have been a different story.
Reply

Scimitar
03-21-2017, 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by Grandad
Teach unbiased and honest history.
I cam across this lecture and Q&A on youtube a few weeks ago, and found it quite insightful. The lecture explored first some aspects of the history of comparison and its impact on concepts in modern historiography. Secondly, there was an overview on approaches that address the history of connections and why they came to the fore over the past two decades. There are of course various variants of analyzing connections from entangled history and histoire croisée to the study of cultural transfers, métissage and acculturation. They are presented in their capacity to shed light on different aspects of global and/or transnational connectivity. As a sort of conclusion the lecture discussed if comparison and the investigation of connections could go together or are rather exclusive as methods in today's historiography.



:)

Scimi
Reply

Grandad
03-21-2017, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by Scottish Celt
they didn't teach history of the 1916 easter rising though,that would have been a ''bad'' thing in their eye's,i learned about that when I left school,although in Ireland it would have been a different story.
We were taught this in secondary school...South Wales. Are you from Glasgow, by any chance? Catholic/Protestant relations there were grim for decades. That might account for absence of Irish history in your schools. Just a thought.
Reply

Scottish Celt
03-21-2017, 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Grandad
We were taught this in secondary school...South Wales. Are you from Glasgow, by any chance? Catholic/Protestant relations there were grim for decades. That might account for absence of Irish history in your schools. Just a thought.
Not far from Glasgow,Im from Ayrshire on the west coast about 25miles away,yes sectarianism is bad up here most Catholics/Protestants just want to live peacefully,its such cults/ideoligies like the Orange order & Loyalism which are the problem,they are very much pro-right,anti-Catholic & nowadays seem very anti-Muslim
Reply

Scimitar
03-21-2017, 03:31 PM
Welcome to the forum, Grandad and Scottish Celt. I wish I had more time to post here today, but I will just say I am enjoying reading your posts here :) thank you for contributing.

God bless.

Scimi
Reply

Grandad
03-21-2017, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
I cam across this lecture and Q&A on youtube a few weeks ago, and found it quite insightful. The lecture explored first some aspects of the history of comparison and its impact on concepts in modern historiography. Secondly, there was an overview on approaches that address the history of connections and why they came to the fore over the past two decades. There are of course various variants of analyzing connections from entangled history and histoire croisée to the study of cultural transfers, métissage and acculturation. They are presented in their capacity to shed light on different aspects of global and/or transnational connectivity. As a sort of conclusion the lecture discussed if comparison and the investigation of connections could go together or are rather exclusive as methods in today's historiography.



:)

Scimi
A quick skim through this video convinces me that I'm going to have to shake off the cobwebs that have collected around that part of my brain marked 'History Department - Methodology and Stuff'. In sha Allah I will return to this matter once I've done a wee bit of dusting...and can use a bigger screen than this wee phone of mine....the better to see the lecturer's slides! Thank you very much for this opportunity to learn/relearn stuff.

Very best regards...and have a great day.
Reply

Scottish Celt
03-21-2017, 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Welcome to the forum, Grandad and Scottish Celt. I wish I had more time to post here today, but I will just say I am enjoying reading your posts here :) thank you for contributing.

God bless.

Scimi
Thank you Scimitar

Originally Posted by Grandad
A quick skim through this video convinces me that I'm going to have to shake off the cobwebs that have collected around that part of my brain marked 'History Department - Methodology and Stuff'. In sha Allah I will return to this matter once I've done a wee bit of dusting...and can use a bigger screen than this wee phone of mine....the better to see the lecturer's slides! Thank you very much for this opportunity to learn/relearn stuff.

Very best regards...and have a great day.
Aye ye know yer Scottish lingo well:D:Emoji43:
Reply

Grandad
03-21-2017, 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by Scottish Celt
Not far from Glasgow,Im from Ayrshire on the west coast about 25miles away,yes sectarianism is bad up here most Catholics/Protestants just want to live peacefully,its such cults/ideoligies like the Orange order & Loyalism which are the problem,they are very much pro-right,anti-Catholic & nowadays seem very anti-Muslim
Indeed. I was a Catholic for just over sixty years, and used to debate with Protestants...most of whom were decent. The most vitriolic by a country mile were the few who came from Glascow...exposed all their lives to violent bigotry and hatred...and giving as much back. You will recall the Celtic/Rangers FC nonsense, now easing off, it seems....well, somewhat! Very tribal...If you're not one of us you're nothing at all mentality.
Reply

Grandad
03-21-2017, 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by Scottish Celt
Thank you Scimitar

Aye ye know yer Scottish lingo well:D:Emoji43:
Yer ma's a maun, Jimmy!
Reply

Grandad
03-21-2017, 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Welcome to the forum, Grandad and Scottish Celt. I wish I had more time to post here today, but I will just say I am enjoying reading your posts here :) thank you for contributing.

God bless.

Scimi
Thank you, Scimi. Great to 'meet' you.
Reply

Scimitar
03-21-2017, 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Grandad
A quick skim through this video convinces me that I'm going to have to shake off the cobwebs that have collected around that part of my brain marked 'History Department - Methodology and Stuff'. In sha Allah I will return to this matter once I've done a wee bit of dusting...and can use a bigger screen than this wee phone of mine....the better to see the lecturer's slides! Thank you very much for this opportunity to learn/relearn stuff.

Very best regards...and have a great day.
Thank you Grandad :)

I watched it and felt slightly incompetent i some ways afterwards. But it was good to know where I was neglecting the method. Which for me, was in the connections from entangled history which the speaker mentions. At some points in investigating comparatives, I did give up because the contradictory opinions were too confuddled to know who was saying what. And it gets worse when commentators tell you "I believe..." because that's still an opinion :D

Having said that, learning is so awesome :) And I'm very impressed that at 71, you still consider yourself a student. You are humble, Sir. And I would honour you as "teacher".

I was reading Cormac O'Brien's book - The Fall of Empires From Glory to Ruin, An Epic Account of History's Ancient Civilisations and found this to be a great introduction to degeneration within all empires.

One common theme I noticed was as follows. When empires compromise their moral values and lewdity becomes a norm - it bodes an ill omen, namely that said nation has already peaked and can go no higher, and so, the only direction left is down. I'm looking around, at our decadent society in the west, and see that we have passed that tipping point already.

Wow, right?

Scimi
Reply

Scottish Celt
03-21-2017, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by Grandad
Indeed. I was a Catholic for just over sixty years, and used to debate with Protestants...most of whom were decent. The most vitriolic by a country mile were the few who came from Glascow...exposed all their lives to violent bigotry and hatred...and giving as much back. You will recall the Celtic/Rangers FC nonsense, now easing off, it seems....well, somewhat! Very tribal...If you're not one of us you're nothing at all mentality.
Now now i wont hear a bad word against Celtic;),..ive been to plenty of Celtic v Rangers matches,tbf though Celtic don't mix religion with football but they do with politics,Rangers on the other hand are very much Protestant/Unionist & anti-Catholic theyre fans seem to come from far right groups like the SDL.(maybe I'm a little biased:D)...Anyway, I hope to be joining you very soon in converting
Reply

Sho Islam
03-21-2017, 09:29 PM
Mashallah this is great to see that the importance Islamic history is highlighted here! As we truly need to learn from our past pitfalls to revive as an Ummah!

May Allah reward you! Ameen
Reply

Grandad
03-22-2017, 10:57 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Thank you Grandad :)

I watched it and felt slightly incompetent i some ways afterwards. But it was good to know where I was neglecting the method. Which for me, was in the connections from entangled history which the speaker mentions. At some points in investigating comparatives, I did give up because the contradictory opinions were too confuddled to know who was saying what. And it gets worse when commentators tell you "I believe..." because that's still an opinion :D

Having said that, learning is so awesome :) And I'm very impressed that at 71, you still consider yourself a student. You are humble, Sir. And I would honour you as "teacher".

I was reading Cormac O'Brien's book - The Fall of Empires From Glory to Ruin, An Epic Account of History's Ancient Civilisations and found this to be a great introduction to degeneration within all empires.

One common theme I noticed was as follows. When empires compromise their moral values and lewdity becomes a norm - it bodes an ill omen, namely that said nation has already peaked and can go no higher, and so, the only direction left is down. I'm looking around, at our decadent society in the west, and see that we have passed that tipping point already.

Wow, right?

Scimi
As-Salāmu ‘alaykum wa Rahmatullāhi wa Barakātuhu, Scimi

Thank you for your kind words. Yes, I still consider myself to be a student. That’s not humility, by the way; that’s self-awareness! As for being a ‘teacher’……He who would teach, first let him learn. In šāʾ Allāh we can teach each other….at the end of it all we might not be any wiser, but we ought to be better informed.

Any society that turns away from the values ordained by Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) will fall in the end (and the same, of course, is true of individuals). For sure, there are decadent behaviours in the West (as there are everywhere); but I see no reason to believe that the majority are decadent (anywhere). Perhaps the fact that decadent behaviour is deemed newsworthy, while decent behaviour barely gets a mention is a sign that decency is commonplace. Or perhaps I’m being naïve.

May Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) reward you for the good that you do.

Very best regards.

Paul
Reply

Grandad
03-22-2017, 11:03 AM
Originally Posted by Scottish Celt
Now now i wont hear a bad word against Celtic;),..ive been to plenty of Celtic v Rangers matches,tbf though Celtic don't mix religion with football but they do with politics,Rangers on the other hand are very much Protestant/Unionist & anti-Catholic theyre fans seem to come from far right groups like the SDL.(maybe I'm a little biased:D)...Anyway, I hope to be joining you very soon in converting
Shhhhh, but I rather admire Celtic (apart from the fact they don't used the hard 'C'!). My preferred football team, and have been for years.

Great news to see that you may soon become a Muslim, in šāʾ Allāh. May Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) continue to guide you.

Very best regards.

Paul.

PS: I assume you meant converting to Islam, rather than to Rangers :D
Reply

Scimitar
03-22-2017, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by Grandad
As-Salāmu ‘alaykum wa Rahmatullāhi wa Barakātuhu, Scimi
Wa'alaykum as Salaam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatuhu, Grandad

What you wrote here was profane to me.

Originally Posted by Grandad
...but I see no reason to believe that the majority are decadent (anywhere). Perhaps the fact that decadent behaviour is deemed newsworthy, while decent behaviour barely gets a mention is a sign that decency is commonplace. Or perhaps I’m being naïve.
Maybe not. I think what you just presented has some merit. According to some scholars, as long as a nation remains charitable to the weak in society, God will not destroy that nation. God knows best if this is true or not, but I think this relates to your observation, as subtle as it may be. Most certainly food for thought.

Originally Posted by Grandad
May Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) reward you for the good that you do.

Very best regards.

Paul
And may HE, give you the best of both, this and the next (worlds), Ameen.

Mohsen
Reply

Grandad
03-22-2017, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Wa'alaykum as Salaam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatuhu, Grandad

What you wrote here was profane to me.
Profane? In what why, brother? I'm sorry if I have caused you any offence.
Reply

Scimitar
03-22-2017, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by Grandad
Profane? In what why, brother? I'm sorry if I have caused you any offence.
I meant in a good way, no profanity as such, sorry.

What you wrote was insightful. :)
Reply

Abz2000
03-22-2017, 03:08 PM
http://www.khilafah.com/6-understand...uman-problems/

http://www.khilafah.com/5-dismantlin...fe-and-system/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SwLEWSVtwc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQxXekP_bSs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRmthLuron4
Reply

Abz2000
03-22-2017, 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by Grandad
Profane? In what why, brother? I'm sorry if I have caused you any offence.
Profound?
:)
Reply

Grandad
03-22-2017, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
I meant in a good way, no profanity as such, sorry.

What you wrote was insightful. :)
Ah....so you were having a senior moment! :p
Reply

Scimitar
03-22-2017, 04:05 PM
welcome back bro Abz!!!

Originally Posted by Grandad
Ah....so you were having a senior moment! :p
:D tsst, my age is starting to show, though thirty years junior to yourself, my grays betray a thinking man whose wires are rapidly burning out hehe.

Scimi
Reply

Grandad
03-22-2017, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
Profound?
:)
But of course ;D
Reply

Scimitar
03-22-2017, 04:10 PM
you grammar nazi's :D

Scimi
Reply

Grandad
03-22-2017, 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
you grammar nazi's :D

Scimi
LOL. Excellent!!!
Reply

Grandad
03-22-2017, 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
you grammar nazi's :D

Scimi
Your education has begun!
Reply

Scimitar
03-22-2017, 04:18 PM
Speaking of Nazi's. I was watching this documentary about Mongolians who glorify Hitler and consider themselves Nazi. I couldn't stop myself from giggling at the thought of Hitler's face!

Anyway, here's the doccy:



^More present day than historical, buuuut - I'm just trying to demonstrate that history has an habit of coming back to bite ideologies in the butt. lol.

Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
03-22-2017, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
welcome back bro Abz!!!

Thank you and jazakAllahukhayran for the welcome,
I'm not back as before, just saw the need to contribute on the fly, will stay on the sidelines for as long as I can since it's difficult to be dispassionate and don't want to see my favourite forum turn into a troll playground again.

I'll stay busy speaking on less active forums where I don't mind getting banned after saying wot da (profane ;) ) hell I like to the trolls and use my superhero electro-magnetic powers to attract them elsewhere :)
Reply

Scimitar
03-22-2017, 04:26 PM
LOL!!! TrollHunter Abz2000, sounds like an Anime title bro. I'm uhm, trying to be a well behaved Scimitar, but you know I can't keep it up for long. Sooner or later I snap and the moderator's infractions get served, as deserved. :hiding:

Good to see you post! Hope to see you sooner than this last absence in sha Allah.

Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
03-22-2017, 04:28 PM
I'll be back !!!
Insha Allah !!!
Reply

Abz2000
03-22-2017, 04:40 PM
Well carry on with your interesting conversation then grandad.
I hope I didn't hit pause, if so I'll hit it again.
Now go on!!!
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Scimitar
03-22-2017, 04:46 PM
Would love for you to join us Abz :)

Scimi
Reply

Grandad
03-22-2017, 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Speaking of Nazi's. I was watching this documentary about Mongolians who glorify Hitler and consider themselves Nazi. I couldn't stop myself from giggling at the thought of Hitler's face!

Anyway, here's the doccy:



^More present day than historical, buuuut - I'm just trying to demonstrate that history has an habit of coming back to bite ideologies in the butt. lol.

Scimi
Indeed. There's nowt so queer as folk!
Reply

beleiver
03-23-2017, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Yes, I have - throw it in here sis.


(don't be laughing at my voice either lol)

Scimi
The Brits glorified the story in the film Laurence of Arabia..

Then there was Gertrude of Arabia A lesser known British military intelligence asset that was based in Baghdad, she was a part responsible for the nation states now known as Iraq and Jordan that was an area previously known as Mespotamia..
Iraq was the first place the British landed troops in WW1 to allegedly block the Berlin to Baghdad rail road and went on to become the first to use chemical weapons on the Kurds..

I have often wondered what the first world war was really all about, the most obvious reason to me is to block the world trade routes and fracture the great civilization that lived at its cross roads, that with the technological advancements of the day and all that oil were sure to become a great power..A power that had moral guidance when it came to banking , property rights and trade

Years later when Thatcher was calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist she was calling Bin Laden a freedom fighter and supplying him with weapons..They never did stop supporting the extremists..
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anatolian
03-23-2017, 08:55 PM
Every people teaches history to kids from a nationalistic pov. This is not unusual. However it is hard to find the unbiased true historic information. History, unlike other scinces, have all those influances ( politic, ideologic, religous) along with it. So a historian must be brave enough to stand up to that if he wants give true information. There had always been an anti Islamic sentiment in the west so it is normal not to have a good information of the history of Islam over there. However this apply to both sides..
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czgibson
03-23-2017, 10:31 PM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by anatolian
Every people teaches history to kids from a nationalistic pov. This is not unusual. However it is hard to find the unbiased true historic information. History, unlike other scinces, have all those influances ( politic, ideologic, religous) along with it. So a historian must be brave enough to stand up to that if he wants give true information.
I agree. Narrative history is always coloured by the author's point of view and prior assumptions. This is one reason why, when Scimi tells us he is going to give us undistorted, real history and then calls 9/11 and 7/7 false flags, he instantly loses credibility with me.

There had always been an anti Islamic sentiment in the west so it is normal not to have a good information of the history of Islam over there. However this apply to both sides..
It's perfectly possible to find good histories of Islam in the West if you know where to look.

Peace
Reply

Scimitar
03-24-2017, 12:03 AM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,



I agree. Narrative history is always coloured by the author's point of view and prior assumptions. This is one reason why, when Scimi tells us he is going to give us undistorted, real history and then calls 9/11 and 7/7 false flags, he instantly loses credibility with me.
Brother show me where I've said to you real history is 9/11 and 7/7? I hate those overplayed modern narratives. Instead - I'm speaking of history in general, because history in general is written by the hand of the victor.

And it may surprise you to know that in my pursuit or truth, I have often disagreed with Muslims as well - in fact I wouldn't be surprised if I have had more disagreements with Muslims over any other group in my life regarding history lol.

Originally Posted by czgibson
It's perfectly possible to find good histories of Islam in the West if you know where to look.

Peace
Sure.

If I want to learn how to bake a wedding cake, I'll go to my local car mechanic next time - loool.

Scimi
Reply

czgibson
03-24-2017, 02:12 AM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by Scimitar
Brother show me where I've said to you real history is 9/11 and 7/7? I hate those overplayed modern narratives.
It's difficult for me to unwrap the collection of misunderstandings you seem to have made here. First, I don't claim you did say that (the statement is unclear in any case). Second, consider these words of yours:

An example of this Shock Doctrine is evident in our own lifetimes. 911 was a recent example, coupled with 7/7 and the other red flags events manufactured by the imperial west.
You mention "red flags" when you appear to mean "false flags". How does bringing up widely rejected conspiracy theories help when the premise of your text is to oppose the Western narrative and replace it with one that is more accurate?

Instead - I'm speaking of history in general, because history in general is written by the hand of the victor.
Yes, and I think you could do with continuing to read as much history in general as you can. History is a collection of often contradictory voices, not a single entity.

And it may surprise you to know that in my pursuit or truth, I have often disagreed with Muslims as well - in fact I wouldn't be surprised if I have had more disagreements with Muslims over any other group in my life regarding history lol.
That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Peace
Reply

Grandad
03-24-2017, 07:27 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
And it may surprise you to know that in my pursuit or truth, I have often disagreed with Muslims as well - in fact I wouldn't be surprised if I have had more disagreements with Muslims over any other group in my life regarding history lol.


Scimi
Never!! ;D;D
Reply

Scimitar
03-24-2017, 12:56 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

It's difficult for me to unwrap the collection of misunderstandings you seem to have made here. First, I don't claim you did say that (the statement is unclear in any case). ...

You mention "red flags" when you appear to mean "false flags". How does bringing up widely rejected conspiracy theories help when the premise of your text is to oppose the Western narrative and replace it with one that is more accurate?
No, I meant RED flags - while you entertain the false flag idea. Either way, 9/11 is still controversial and hotly debated across the world. Wasn't the Muslims who shouted "insider job" was it? nope, was an American who made that fahrenheit 911 which set the trend lol.


Originally Posted by czgibson
Yes, and I think I could do with continuing to read as much history in general as I can. History is a collection of often contradictory voices, not a single entity.

That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Peace
Corrected for you, enjoy ;) just make sure you go to a car mechanic if you wanna learn how to do your own MOT. lol And a baker if you want bread yeah?

Scimi
Reply

Aryeh Jay
03-24-2017, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by Grandad
Your education has begun!
Speaking of history and education, tell us, do you remember the Romans being in Londinium? :)
Reply

anatolian
03-24-2017, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by Aryeh Jay
Speaking of history and education, tell us, do you remember the Romans being in Londinium? :)
Brother @Grandad might be even remembering the Celts migrating to the island coming from Anatolia :D https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatia
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Grandad
03-24-2017, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by Aryeh Jay
Speaking of history and education, tell us, do you remember the Romans being in Londinium? :)
Do I remember?.............I was there!!!!
Reply

Grandad
03-24-2017, 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Brother @Grandad might be even remembering the Celts migrating to the island coming from Anatolia :D https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatia
I was a wee bit on the young side then; but the wiki site is probably accurate for the Celts as a race (although some would dispute that there ever was such a people!).

It's reckoned that my tribe (Silures) came from Iberia. DNA studies suggest that the Welsh have been here for about 10,000 years (give or take a week or two). Certainly the language is the oldest in Europe (with the possible exception of the Basque language). We were here long before the Scots........that's for sure (take note, Scottish Celt!)

PS: And don't be impertinent! ;D
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Eric H
03-24-2017, 03:16 PM
Greetings an peace be with you czgibson;
Yes, and I think you could do with continuing to read as much history in general as you can. History is a collection of often contradictory voices, not a single entity.
History is 'crap'.

If history was any good at all, we would learn from it and live in peace with each other, and there would not be a billion people living close to starvation in this world.

Man is incredibly clever at many things, medicine, transport, buildings etc, so why can't we use our intelligence for the more human things like relationships, and building caring communities?

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric
Reply

anatolian
03-24-2017, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by Grandad
I was a wee bit on the young side then; but the wiki site is probably accurate for the Celts as a race (although some would dispute that there ever was such a people!).

It's reckoned that my tribe (Silures) came from Iberia. DNA studies suggest that the Welsh have been here for about 10,000 years (give or take a week or two). Certainly the language is the oldest in Europe (with the possible exception of the Basque language). We were here long before the Scots........that's for sure (take note, Scottish Celt!)

PS: And don't be impertinent! ;D
Ok my apologies..

Celts were one of the most amazing people of the ancient times. They migrated long distances and put a trace of their inheritence everywhere they went all over Eurasia..Galatia in Anatolia is interesting
Reply

ardianto
03-24-2017, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by Eric H
Greetings an peace be with you czgibson;


History is 'crap'.

If history was any good at all, we would learn from it and live in peace with each other, and there would not be a billion people living close to starvation in this world.

Man is incredibly clever at many things, medicine, transport, buildings etc, so why can't we use our intelligence for the more human things like relationships, and building caring communities?

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric
Greetings and peace be with you Eric H.

I am really sorry if I disagree with you. For me history is not 'crap'.

Since I was a little kid I already interested to history. I remember when I was eight. While other boys read comics I prefer to learn about history of Roman. I still love to learn history until now. That's why if you visit my home you would find many books about history. Some of those books were bought by my father for me. Some other were bought by me for my children.

There are many good things that we will get from learning history. Through learn history we can understand human better. Through learn history we can learn the mistakes that our predecessors were ever made. And we will realize that we should not repeat the same mistakes.

:)
Reply

Scimitar
03-24-2017, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Greetings and peace be with you Eric H.

I am really sorry if I disagree with you. For me history is not 'crap'.
Assalaam alaikum Ardianto,

I think what Eric was saying is that history as we are taught in schools is crap.

I can't disagree.

Scimi
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ardianto
03-24-2017, 05:05 PM
One thing that I found from learning history is, ..... maybe the history of Muslims is the most biased history. Seem like many parties, including Muslims themselves, tried to 'twist' history of Muslims to support their own agendas.
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Eric H
03-24-2017, 05:43 PM
Greetings and peace be with you ardianto;
I am really sorry if I disagree with you. For me history is not 'crap'.
I look at it this way, take the history of transport as an example, the horse and cart, then cars, buses lorries planes and space travel. You can see a gradual and rapid improvement over time.

Now take the history of man, how do we improve? We have the same wars as thousands of years ago, we have progressed from swords, to guns to bombs. Why haven't we learned to how to make peace first?

Farming methods have improved over the last millennium, there is enough food to feed the world. Why do we allow twenty thousand children to die needlessly from grinding poverty, preventable disease and starvation every single day?

History shows all the mistakes our ancestors made, we say we are growing up in a civilised society, and yet we repeat our ancestors folly. If our past history was a guide like building and improving transport, then we should have learned how to live in peace with each other, despite all our differences.

History might be interesting, but for it to benefit mankind, we must change for the better.

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God,

Eric
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Eric H
03-29-2017, 03:49 PM
Greetings and peace be with you all,

Civil wars can last for decades and centuries, because it is neighbour against neighbour. I think if we could learn anything positive from history, it would be for the need to forgive. When we forgive, then we can pass on some hope to our children and grandchildren, that they should not have to live with the hostility and anger of their parents generation.

Here is a story of forgiveness, a girl was stoned to death, and her parents forgave two of the guilty lads, and over the years, they even helped the lads to get jobs. This was in the time of apartheid in South Africa. This video is 18 minutes, but I believe it carries a powerful message.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F0t8UajJp8&t=100s

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God,

Eric
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ardianto
03-29-2017, 06:09 PM
Greetings and peace be with you Eric H.

History is full of war, oppression, injustice. That's why if we learn history we have to have ability to forgive. If not, then we might restart what has been ended.

Through history I know what Dutch have ever done toward my nation in their colonization, what Japanese ever done in their short occupation. But I don't want to hate them for the things that have been left in the past as history.

Unfortunately there are people who dig history with purpose to revive hostility and hatred that ever happened in the past, and start a new conflict. This is the attitude that we have to avoid.
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Scimitar
03-29-2017, 06:15 PM
Percentage conference's are very telling ;)

Scimi
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Scottish Celt
04-16-2017, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Grandad
I was a wee bit on the young side then; but the wiki site is probably accurate for the Celts as a race (although some would dispute that there ever was such a people!).

It's reckoned that my tribe (Silures) came from Iberia. DNA studies suggest that the Welsh have been here for about 10,000 years (give or take a week or two). Certainly the language is the oldest in Europe (with the possible exception of the Basque language). We were here long before the Scots........that's for sure (take note, Scottish Celt!)

PS: And don't be impertinent! ;D
just seen this lol;D,..i always thought Wales was the younger nation,on these isle's with Ireland being the oldest,You can trace Irish roots back to Scotlands origins,it was the Scotti tribe from Ireland that settled in Scotland,...hence the name Scot'land,..Alba in gaelic of course,everyday is a school day,thanks for the info Granda;).
Reply

Abz2000
04-16-2017, 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by Scottish Celt
just seen this lol;D,..i always thought Wales was the younger nation,on these isle's with Ireland being the oldest,You can trace Irish roots back to Scotlands origins,it was the Scotti tribe from Ireland that settled in Scotland,...hence the name Scot'land,..Alba in gaelic of course,everyday is a school day,thanks for the info Granda;).

Some people are really scared of history - because their criminal history is inherited.

The name "wales" comes from "wallachia" where "thorn in the flesh buffeters" the prince of wales' and the dizzy lizard's ancestor - prince of wallachia vlad dracul (dracula, vlad the impaler) ruled.
Wal fir'auna dhil awtaad, alladheena at ghaw fi al bilaad, fa aktharu feeha al fasaad, fa suabba 'alaihim rabbuka suauta 'adhaab, inna rabbaka la bi al mirsuaad.

Behold a great red dragon.....on a green and red flag..... Allahu a'lam.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-royals-294037

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/128...ot-in-the-head


So....
Woz it the paparazzi ...... or was it the papanazi???

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