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strivingobserver98
06-13-2016, 03:39 PM
After recent events in Orlando , an incident from the life of one of my inspirations, the great Egyptian scholar, Shaykh Muhammad Mitawally al- Sha'rawy came to mind.


Sheikh al-Sharawy said:

I once spoke with a young man who has a mind that was quite extreme, I asked him:

"Blowing up a nightclub or immoral place with people inside, is it halal or haram?"


Young Man:

"Of course halal and permissible to kill them."


Shaykh Sha'rawi:

"If you kill them while they are disobeying God what will happen to them or where will they go?"


Young Man:

"Of course they will go to hell."


Shaykh Sha'rawi:

"Where does the devil want to take them?"


Young Man:

"Of course to hell, because it is the goal of the devil"


Shaykh Sha'rawi:

"Then you and the devil cooperate in a goal, to take humans to the hellfire."

Then Shaykh also reminded him of the Hadith of the Prophet.

When a corpse of an individual had past before him he stood up and cried, and the Sahaba around him asked

"What makes you weep O Messenger of Allah?" He said: "Another soul has escaped from me and go to hell!"


Shaykh:

"Can you see the difference between you and the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him)? The want of guidance for all mankind and save them from hell, you are on one side and He(may peace and blessings be upon him) was of the other!"


May God bless Shaykh Sha'rawi.

- Mikhaael Mala
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noraina
06-13-2016, 03:45 PM
An extreme and unstable mind. No sane person would think they're doing this for the sake of Allah, he was using Islam as an excuse to justify his actions.

I was shocked when I heard about it in the news, over 50 people killed...
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Serinity
06-13-2016, 05:13 PM
Some may think "they are gay, so it is ok to kill them"

So is it halal or haram? the Shaykh didn't answer the question.

Can't blame the kid.
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noraina
06-13-2016, 05:31 PM
Gay or not, that man didn't have any right to take the law into his own hands.

He wasn't even in a Muslim country, and even if he was, this isn't the way of the Shariah, to just open fire and kill people execution style, no questions asked, no courts of law or appointed judges. Islam is all about justice and there was no justice in this.
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sister herb
06-13-2016, 05:32 PM
Some may think what ever, like "they are not Muslims, so it is ok to kill them". Here are always people whose are ready to take the law into their own hands. As you may know, many extremists behave like this and they excuse their crimes sayings like "they were this and that, they made sin etc, ok let´s go to kill them".

If you make yourself a kind of judge, you deprive the opportunity to repent from the victim.
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EgyptPrincess
06-13-2016, 05:47 PM
50 gays got killed, big woop. 50 children die everyday from bombs being dropped on their heads.

It's not ok that they were killed obviously but it's annoying that every time people die in the west at the hand of muslims it's front page news for a week, when muslims are killed at the hands of kufr it's just another day.
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Serinity
06-13-2016, 05:52 PM
Well, these extremists think it is permissible.

Vigilantism is haram right? So this was haram right?

I don't go and cut off people's hand for stealing a TV. Although a thief's hand is to be cut off. There are rules tho. Only a Qari has the right to judge like that. Right?

one can't really blame those extremists. People need to educate themselves.

Idk if the killer was Muslim, but if he was, then I feel sorry for him. As for the gays, I have a hard time feelings sorry for gays.
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sister herb
06-13-2016, 05:58 PM
You don´t need to strugle to feel sorry for gays specially. It´s enough to feel sorry for fellow human beings.
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jabeady
06-13-2016, 06:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
You don´t need to strugle to feel sorry for gays specially. It´s enough to feel sorry for fellow human beings.
I'm neither Muslim nor gay, but thank you.
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EgyptPrincess
06-13-2016, 06:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
You don´t need to strugle to feel sorry for gays specially. It´s enough to feel sorry for fellow human beings.
Sweetie people die everyday by the thousands, our hearts can't accommodate them all. People died yes it's tragic but do we really need to try and feel sorry for them?

Admit it, you don't feel "sorry" for them, you didn't even know them. You just think you should feel sorry for them because that is what social protocol says we should do.

Ultimately we tend to care for people who we can relate to, family, friends etc. Anyone who says they genuinely feel sorry for a bunch of gay strangers is lying, or they're mentally ill.
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czgibson
06-13-2016, 06:12 PM
Greetings,

Killing innocent people is wrong. If you need to believe in things like the devil and hellfire to make you realise this, then you have a deeply flawed sense of morality.

Yet another mass murder has occurred in the name of Islam, and that's a very sad thing for all of us. As human beings, we all need to do better than this.

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
one can't really blame those extremists. People need to educate themselves.

Idk if the killer was Muslim, but if he was, then I feel sorry for him. As for the gays, I have a hard time feelings sorry for gays.
Look at the disgusting attitudes your beliefs have led you towards. Fifty of your fellow human beings are dead for no good reason. Do you think saying things like this makes you part of the problem or part of the solution?

Peace
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EgyptPrincess
06-13-2016, 06:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

Killing innocent people is wrong. If you need to believe in things like the devil and hellfire to make you realise this, then you have a deeply flawed sense of morality.

Yet another mass murder has occurred in the name of Islam, and that's a very sad thing for all of us. As human beings, we all need to do better than this.



Look at the disgusting attitudes your beliefs have led you towards. Fifty of your fellow human beings are dead for no good reason. Do you think saying things like this makes you part of the problem or part of the solution?

Peace
Cry me a river.

Innocent people are killed in the name of Islam, innocent people are killed in the name of democracy, innocent people are killed in the name of freedom, innocent people are killed all around the globe for a multitude of things. To only be outraged when it's in the name of Islam is incredibly biased.

And for your information the number of innocents killed at the hands of muslims is tiny compared to the amount of innocent muslims killed by others.

I'm not saying we should not care about innocent lives but this is such a common occurrence in Muslim lands that it's just another day... It's so rare in the west that when it happens, it's mass hysteria. Now imagine this type of killing of innocents happening every single day.

Don't you dare talk to us about morality. For every life a Muslim radical takes, a western government has taken 500.
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noraina
06-13-2016, 06:28 PM
Two wrongs don't make a right.

It breaks my heart when I see the state of Syria, Palestine, and the lives of so many people snatched away without a second thought. And it does annoy me, upset me, when I see the hypocrisy of the media, and the way they prefer to turn a blind eye to plight of these people because for them Muslim lives don't mean much and aren't worth reporting.

But it doesn't make this right.

And whether the whole world goes crazy reporting it or I'm the only one to mourn it, murder is murder and is wrong and unjust, whoever does it - whatever anyone else thinks or does about it.
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EgyptPrincess
06-13-2016, 06:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by noraina
I'm the only one to mourn it
Oh please... you've not shed a single tear for them and you know it. You'll forget this even happened in a few days lol.

But you're right in saying these things should not happen. It's wrong, through and through.
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noraina
06-13-2016, 06:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Oh please... you've not shed a single tear for them and you know it. You'll forget this even happened in a few days lol.

But you're right in saying these things should not happen. It's wrong, through and through.
You're right, I don't know these people personally, but I do mourn the miscarriage of justice this so obviously is, and the way Islam has been used to justify it.

As Muslims we should mourn injustice and oppression - our Muslims brothers and sisters are going through hell at the moment in their own countries, and that angers me, and it also angers me when these people hijack the name of Islam and do acts like these. As I said, wrong is wrong, whoever has done it and whoever is the victim of it.
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Bhabha
06-13-2016, 06:41 PM
What annoys me is that if that person had a white sounding name... It would be from mental instability.
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czgibson
06-13-2016, 06:41 PM
Greetings EgyptPrincess,

Maybe when you're a bit older you'll realise how ignorant your comments are here.

format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Cry me a river.

Innocent people are killed in the name of Islam, innocent people are killed in the name of democracy, innocent people are killed in the name of freedom, innocent people are killed all around the globe for a multitude of things. To only be outraged when it's in the name of Islam is incredibly biased.
Who says any of us is only outraged when it's in the name of Islam?

And for your information the number of innocents killed at the hands of muslims is tiny compared to the amount of innocent muslims killed by others.
Irrelevant. Killing of innocents is always wrong.

I'm not saying we should not care about innocent lives but this is such a common occurrence in Muslim lands that it's just another day... It's so rare in the west that when it happens, it's mass hysteria. Now imagine this type of killing of innocents happening every single day.
It does happen every day. That's a terrible thing. What are you arguing about?

Don't you dare talk to us about morality. For every life a Muslim radical takes, a western government has taken 500.
As I'm not a member of a Western government, this is another irrelevance.

As for morality, if you rely on the threat of devils and hellfire to prevent people from doing wicked actions, that is obedience, not morality, and I have no hesitation in saying so, with or without your permission.

Peace
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Serinity
06-13-2016, 06:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

Killing innocent people is wrong. If you need to believe in things like the devil and hellfire to make you realise this, then you have a deeply flawed sense of morality.

Yet another mass murder has occurred in the name of Islam, and that's a very sad thing for all of us. As human beings, we all need to do better than this.



Look at the disgusting attitudes your beliefs have led you towards. Fifty of your fellow human beings are dead for no good reason. Do you think saying things like this makes you part of the problem or part of the solution?

Peace
I don't need you lecturing me around. I know already what is right and wrong. Not my problem that you are ignorant not to know that this is wrong.

Or ignorant enough to think this is what Islam teaches. I don't like gays tho.

Islam teaches only good things. I remain objective, not subjective.

I know killing innocents is wrong. But I don't have the capacity to mourn over people I hardly know.
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sister herb
06-13-2016, 06:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Admit it, you don't feel "sorry" for them, you didn't even know them. You just think you should feel sorry for them because that is what social protocol says we should do.
No. We should try to feel sorry because humanity says we should to.

I afraid the world where people´s hearts have became so cold that they don´t feel deep sadness and despair when they hear about such terror acts and tragedies, just same who was the victim and where. Lack of the humanity is the worst what can ever happen to the humankind. It´s the most direct way what drives us away from any kind of morality - also the morality what religion teaches to us.

Ok. It´s Ramadan. Rant stopped. May Allah protect us all.
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EgyptPrincess
06-13-2016, 06:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings EgyptPrincess,

Maybe when you're a bit older you'll realise how ignorant your comments are here

Who says any of us is only outraged when it's in the name of Islam?

Irrelevant. Killing of innocents is always wrong.

It does happen every day. That's a terrible thing. What are you arguing about?

As I'm not a member of a Western government, this is another irrelevance.

As for morality, if you rely on the threat of devils and hellfire to prevent people from doing wicked actions, that is obedience, not morality, and I have no hesitation in saying so, with or without your permission.

Peace
My point being, where is your outrage when Muslim civilians are killed? Where is the west's outrage? It seems that every time mass slaughter of Muslim civilians occurs, it goes unnoticed. When the mass slaughter of non believers happens, it makes headline news. Do you not see the double standard?

Yes killing innocents is wrong but to us, this is just another day... Innocents by the hundreds die everyday so I'm sorry for not crumbling to the floor in tears for the loss of these 50 adults.
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czgibson
06-13-2016, 06:49 PM
Greetings,

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
I don't need you lecturing me around. I know already what is right and wrong. Not my problem that you are ignorant not to know that this is wrong.

Or ignorant enough to think this is what Islam teaches. I don't like gays tho.

Islam teaches only good things. I remain objective, not subjective.
You are a child, and you have a lot to learn.

Peace
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Serinity
06-13-2016, 07:01 PM
Mass bombings and murder occur in the name of democracy and 'freedom'.
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Search
06-13-2016, 07:11 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)


So, for those of you who are not Americans, you probably do not feel the heat of the situation even though I do as I live in the United States and specifically the South where this tragedy occurred. It is sickening that there are Muslims that actually feel it is okay to kill people who are different than them as a pledge to the terrorist organization Daesh. And for this to happen in Shahru Ramadan, a time wherein Muslims are to feel the pangs of hunger in solidarity with indigent population in the world who cannot afford the means to fill their bellies with food or quench their thirsts and also a time wherein we're as human beings to learn mastery over the baser desires of the self, is completely disgusting and unacceptable. For all those who nod their heads and go about their business believing that gays are lesser somehow as human beings, that's unacceptable - we learn in Islam to separate the sin from the sinners and we're all sinners and all deserve a chance to receive God's guidance and mercy and let's not forget that in Islam a person also has due process and proof and witnesses and court and concepts of both justice and lenience.

@EgyptPrincess: Certainly, I admit I am not gay and I therefore cannot claim an understanding of people struggling with gay desires. Yet at the same time since I have known gay people, I do see them as human beings and not nonentities. And yes, I absolutely feel sorry for the people who died, not because I can somehow understand their struggles but because I don't see how they didn't matter. Also, I see at least one commonality with the gay community that Muslims share in modern-day time, and that is the wider global society's lack of complete disregard for the humanness of Muslims and gays. It is completely biased and ridiculous and one hopes that Muslims more than anyone should know that Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “None of you has faith until he loves for his brother or his neighbor what he loves for himself” (Sahih Muslim 45). In this hadith narration, Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) didn't specify the neighbor be a Muslim or that the neighbor be non-gay. Also, we have the hadith that holds, “All creatures of Allah are His family, therefore, amongst His creations, God likes the person who treats His creatures in a good manner (and takes care of their necessities)” (Mishkat).

@Serenity: Extremists are the bane of society and probably as much as they may like to believe otherwise, are probably persons on whom the wrath of God is most severe on Judgment Day because they cannot understand one thing: Judgment is for God, not human beings. Shariah cannot be implemented on people of other faiths or no faith, and we should already know this because in the time of the 5th Caliph Umar ibn Abd Al-Aziz in Islamic history the Caliph was disturbed to find that Zoroastrians in the land of Persia marry their biological mothers and biological sisters and in Islam that is considered incest. So, the 5th Caliph consulted the famed religious figure Hasan al-Basri about the matter and Hasan Al-Basri replied that Islam's rules cannot be implemented on Zoroastrians in this matter as their faith allowed the practice and therefore the practice must be accepted as a means of respecting the faith of those people. Traditional Islam, long before Daesh and their ridiculous online and real-life supporters emerged, has long been the topmost on the scale of tolerance and acceptance and yet this very thing is missing in today's time, and I cannot help but feel this is the result of a specific virulent strain of Islam having infected the global Muslim community due to political dissatisfaction of interference in geopolitical affairs of the Middle East. It is not just vigilantism that is the problem; it is the idea that we can usurp God's judgment for ourselves and act on that judgment as judge, jury, and executioner all neatly rolled into one like a butcher - is that what Islam teachers or is that what Satan teaches? And FYI, yes, this newsworthy item comprises of a satanic deed that is indeed completely haram (forbidden).

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
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Serinity
06-13-2016, 07:20 PM
we are all learning, so all is good. So we can not implement Shariah on other people?

Vigilantism is haram, I know.

This is a learning curve for me.
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Search
06-13-2016, 07:34 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

First off, the Floridian who did this was a wife-beater as reported by the ex-wife, and I can already tell you that people like that have a habit of preying on the weak and defenseless and therefore probably persons who I'd consider as inhabiting the worst dregs of society. Not any representative of Islam.

Secondly, no, shariah cannot be implemented on non-Muslims as Islam permits them their own rules and laws.

Also, please understand even in Islam during the time of Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him), during the 23 years of Revelation that came, the first 13 years was only about teaching persons the Oneness of God and only later did the rules come once the Muslims' hearts had been prepared and readied to accept God's commands. Would you expect a kinder-gardener to solve equations of quantum physics? Why not? Because the person is not prepared or ready.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
we are all learning, so all is good. So we can not implement Shariah on other people?

Vigilantism is haram, I know.

This is a learning curve for me.
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*charisma*
06-13-2016, 07:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
Some may think "they are gay, so it is ok to kill them"

So is it halal or haram? the Shaykh didn't answer the question.

Can't blame the kid.
It's haram. Muslims are living in the West, under the government of the West, amongst the people of the West, with the freedom to practice their own religion. There is a contract between you and the west that allows you to live there. You want to kill gays, then establish your own country where you have your own rules, but as far as I know, killing someone in the west just because they are gay is unlawful. Killing any human being when you're not engaged in war or attack, is unlawful.

We weren't put on this earth to kill people who are different than us. We're supposed to serve to one another as a reminder or a dawah towards islam. Do you know why some gays live a gay life? Because EVERY RELIGION turns them away for being gay. They are outcasted. They're told they're hated etc. in result they become irreligious. If Muslims put in the time to actually give proper dawah and teach them what trials and tribulations are and that they have a supportive Ummah to help keep them on the right track, then PERHAPS with Allah's will they become guided and they live righteous lives. But unfortunately Muslims these days don't have the skills of giving dawah, especially when they are blind themselves.
Gay people struggle with their nafs just as straight people do. Look at all the straight Muslims who still can't stay away from the opposite sex and cry from heartbreak. You at least have Islam to help you get through, a gay person is generally turned away as soon as he says he's gay and does not know what to do and has no one to help him. We can be disgusted about his nature, but how do we not feel the same disgust about ours when we can't control ourselves? Committing zina is just as corrupting as committing homosexual acts.

O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted. (49:13)

That being said, I don't know how accurate the story of what happened is. The media has a way of turning people against one another. Just before this happened, someone shot a up and coming singer at a club, and there was absolutely no mention of his religion or background. Although thankfully people are waking up to this fact.

But dear brothers and sisters, Yes our own people are being killed in warfare, they're being starved, they're being raped, but we are not zionists to forget how to empathize and to take the role of the victim each time. We're not meant to be understood by everywhere "islam began as something strange and will revert to being strange as it began, so give glad tidings to the strangers." Do not be EVER ALLOW yourselves to become desensitized. If you lose your empathy you have lost a lot. The tests that Allah puts our people through is only a BENEFIT to them inshallah for their end is the highest level of paradise. But as for us we are still alive and we can make a positive difference by learning our deen and sharing it with others, and being kind, and being sympathetic. I'm not saying to assimilate completely and become so westernized to the point that you are sugarcoating your religion and lose your spine, but the very LEAST you can do is get your feelings in check and learn about your deen.
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Serinity
06-13-2016, 07:47 PM
Well, I will see what Allah SWT will do to me when I die. I know He SWT is All-Just. So yep.

I will ask Allah SWT when I die.
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czgibson
06-13-2016, 08:00 PM
Greetings,

format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
It's haram. Muslims are living in the West, under the government of the West, amongst the people of the West, with the freedom to practice their own religion. There is a contract between you and the west that allows you to live there. You want to kill gays, then establish your own country where you have your own rules, but as far as I know, killing someone in the west just because they are gay is unlawful. Killing any human being when you're not engaged in war or attack, is unlawful.

We weren't put on this earth to kill people who are different than us.
This is one of the best posts I've seen on the forum for a long time.

Thank you very much, charisma.

Peace
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Search
06-13-2016, 08:00 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

I have interacted online with you previously as well, though not in any great capacity; I've also read some of your previous threads.

Here's what I have to say of sincere advice that I will offer you: Do not listen to any person, whether seemingly the most pious Muslim, if he/she poisons your Islam and warps your understanding of mercy that is Islam. There is a reason that the etiquette of reading Quran requires us to say "Bismillah Ir-Rehman Ir-Raheem" ("In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful") each and every time we open to read Allah's Word and that is because it is to remember and remind that the compassion and mercy of Allah overpowers and encompasses everything in existence, has been in existence, and all that will be in existence.

Be happy that you're Muslim; but there's nothing to be happy about bigotry or being bigoted towards those different from us. You're young, and you'll grow into your Islam, but the more you try to fit yourself into the mold of the false image of the angry Muslim that is stereotypical now in the media and also encouraged within some online circles of Daesh-types, the more your iman will go down and more you'll feel lost and less and less happy about your Islam. Happy people want happiness for everyone, and if you truly believe Islam is that happiness, you'll first represent that happiness of Islam in yourself.

format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
Well, I will see what Allah SWT will do to me when I die. I know He SWT is All-Just. So yep.

I will ask Allah SWT when I die.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
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Serinity
06-13-2016, 08:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

I have interacted online with you previously as well, though not in any great capacity; I've also read some of your previous threads.

Here's what I have to say of sincere advice that I will offer you: Do not listen to any person, whether seemingly the most pious Muslim, if he/she poisons your Islam and warps your understanding of mercy that is Islam. There is a reason that the etiquette of reading Quran requires us to say "Bismillah Ir-Rehman Ir-Raheem" ("In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful") each and every time we open to read Allah's Word and that is because it is to remember and remind that the compassion and mercy of Allah overpowers and encompasses everything in existence, has been in existence, and all that will be in existence.

Be happy that you're Muslim; but there's nothing to be happy about bigotry or being bigoted towards those different from us. You're young, and you'll grow into your Islam, but the more you try to fit yourself into the mold of the false image of the angry Muslim that is stereotypical now in the media and also encouraged within some online circles of Daesh-types, the more your iman will go down and more you'll feel lost and less and less happy about your Islam. Happy people want happiness for everyone, and if you truly believe Islam is that happiness, you'll first represent that happiness of Islam in yourself.



:wa: (And peace be upon you)
I don't like bigotry, and I am well-aware that my issue is an individual issue.

I will in shaa' Allah learn the correct Islam.

I just have so many questions to ask Allah SWT on the day of judgment.

I don't like the way Islam is being portrayed, either.
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*charisma*
06-13-2016, 08:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
Well, I will see what Allah SWT will do to me when I die. I know He SWT is All-Just. So yep.

I will ask Allah SWT when I die.
Fear Allah brother. You have not even completed reading the entire Quran. If SCHOLARS who have spent the majority of their lifetime acquiring knowledge and practicing their deen aren't out and about killing people, then you have no say in who gets killed and who stays alive. That's Allah's job. The biggest reward of the believer is to see Allah's face on the day of judgement. You will not even have that blessing if you transgress your religion, you will just be questioned and punished. Allah is just and with His justice comes His grave punishment. The Quran, hadith, and the messenger of Allah pbuh answer all of the questions we need in order to live our lives righteously. If you want to overlook the guidance Allah ordained for us to follow, then be aware that the pride you have now to "ask Allah questions" will not be there on the day of humiliation. You'd be lucky to even let out a breath.
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Cpt.America
06-13-2016, 08:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Sweetie people die everyday by the thousands, our hearts can't accommodate them all. People died yes it's tragic but do we really need to try and feel sorry for them?

Admit it, you don't feel "sorry" for them, you didn't even know them. You just think you should feel sorry for them because that is what social protocol says we should do.

Ultimately we tend to care for people who we can relate to, family, friends etc. Anyone who says they genuinely feel sorry for a bunch of gay strangers is lying, or they're mentally ill.
I genuinely feel sorry for them.
This life is all they had. And it's done now.
Their books are closed.

They will never have another chance to do a good deed.
They will never have another chance to correct themselves and turn to Allah.
It's done. It's over. All enjoyment they would have ever felt, has been fulfilled. And in such a petty place such as this life.

Theyve lost the dunya, with no akhirat to look forward to.

Any of us can die at any time in any day in any unexpected way.
We must be careful InshaaAllah and beg Allah to not allow ourselves to waste our time and throw away our akhirat for a few moments of pleasure here.

Their ending is truly tragic. To end in such a state of affairs.

May Allah protect us and preserve our Imaan.
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Cpt.America
06-13-2016, 08:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
I don't need you lecturing me around. I know already what is right and wrong. Not my problem that you are ignorant not to know that this is wrong.

Or ignorant enough to think this is what Islam teaches. I don't like gays tho.

Islam teaches only good things. I remain objective, not subjective.

I know killing innocents is wrong. But I don't have the capacity to mourn over people I hardly know.
Untrue. You have the capacity to feel a sadness of a soul passing. Especially knowing that in all likelihood that soul will face torment for an eternity and a half for their deeds. That should be enough to bring tears to our eyes:
Knowing that Allah has guided us despite ourselves and our sins. And being grateful of Allah's Mercy.
and
Knowing that we can still lose the tranquility and beauty of Imaan, and be of the hypocrites who will suffer a fate far worse than almost any kaafir in their graves, if we choose to poison our hearts with arrogance. And being fearful of Allah's wrath.


http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.com...r-his-humanity
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Serinity
06-13-2016, 08:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Fear Allah brother. You have not even completed reading the entire Quran. If SCHOLARS who have spent the majority of their lifetime acquiring knowledge and practicing their deen aren't out and about killing people, then you have no say in who gets killed and who stays alive. That's Allah's job. The biggest reward of the believer is to see Allah's face on the day of judgement. You will not even have that blessing if you transgress your religion, you will just be questioned and punished. Allah is just and with His justice comes His grave punishment. The Quran, hadith, and the messenger of Allah pbuh answer all of the questions we need in order to live our lives righteously. If you want to overlook the guidance Allah ordained for us to follow, then be aware that the pride you have now to "ask Allah questions" will not be there on the day of humiliation. You'd be lucky to even let out a breath.
I am not ignoring Allah's (SWT) guidance.

I am just asking for Justice. I just want to see the Justice of Allah :Swt:

So I will ask Allah SWT, In shaa' Allah.

May Allah SWT forgive me and remove whatever pride I have. Ameen.

What wrong is there in asking Allah SWT? I'd love to see the Justice of Allah SWT. The wrath of Allah SWT.

I want to see Allah SWT's Justice.
Reply

EgyptPrincess
06-13-2016, 08:52 PM
I don't think anyone is actually suggesting that it was ok to kill them people right?

Obviously it's not ok to do this kind of thing.
Reply

EgyptPrincess
06-13-2016, 08:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cpt.America
I genuinely feel sorry for them.
This life is all they had. And it's done now.
Their books are closed.

They will never have another chance to do a good deed.
They will never have another chance to correct themselves and turn to Allah.
It's done. It's over. All enjoyment they would have ever felt, has been fulfilled. And in such a petty place such as this life.

Theyve lost the dunya, with no akhirat to look forward to.

Any of us can die at any time in any day in any unexpected way.
We must be careful InshaaAllah and beg Allah to not allow ourselves to waste our time and throw away our akhirat for a few moments of pleasure here.

Their ending is truly tragic. To end in such a state of affairs.

May Allah protect us and preserve our Imaan.
You make some good points. I think I was too harsh to say what I said.

I've always had trouble with empathy though and being empathetic to others. I'm an incredibly selfish person astaghfirullah. Even caring about those closest to me sometimes proves difficult.

Thanks for reminding me
Reply

Serinity
06-13-2016, 09:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cpt.America
Untrue. You have the capacity to feel a sadness of a soul passing. Especially knowing that in all likelihood that soul will face torment for an eternity and a half for their deeds. That should be enough to bring tears to our eyes:
Knowing that Allah has guided us despite ourselves and our sins. And being grateful of Allah's Mercy.
and
Knowing that we can still lose the tranquility and beauty of Imaan, and be of the hypocrites who will suffer a fate far worse than almost any kaafir in their graves, if we choose to poison our hearts with arrogance. And being fearful of Allah's wrath.


http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.com...r-his-humanity
May Allah SWT guide me. Ameen.

I am probably engulfed in my own arrogance and bigotry. My hatred for sodomy seem to override my empathy.

I am a bad person. Sigh. :/
Reply

Scimitar
06-13-2016, 09:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
Well, these extremists think it is permissible.

one can't really blame those extremists. People need to educate themselves.
These two sentences leave a lot to be desired.

You can't blame the extremists for being extreme? Then what can you blame? Their ignorance? Isn't that part and parcel of the very same thing?

Today they have no excuses - we live in a world of INFORMATION, where any two bit idiot can learn anything, if they only search for it.

If someone is inclined to do evil, they will search of that which is evil.

Heck I remember last year when some muppet joined here and claimed the adverts he was seeing at the top of the Islamicboard page was always advertising pornographic websites and he was appalled at this display of advert on the sites main page... yet when I explained how google ad-words pool his search results from google and then display the relevant adverts to his interests on Islamicboard, he quickly ran off with his tail between his legs lol.

it's no secret, we got some real idiots on this forum who would rather discuss Islam from their "opinion" instead of from knowledge of the subject itself.

So when you write - one can't blame the extremists, people need to educate themselves - I ask, do you have a brain in that skull of yours? because I see no logic in such a wild statement.

Opinions are fitan, when they come from the "self"... let that be known clearly.

Scimi
Reply

Serinity
06-13-2016, 09:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
These two sentences leave a lot to be desired.

You can't blame the extremists for being extreme? Then what can you blame? Their ignorance? Isn't that part and parcel of the very same thing?

Today they have no excuses - we live in a world of INFORMATION, where any two bit idiot can learn anything, if they only search for it.

If someone is inclined to do evil, they will search of that which is evil.

Heck I remember last year when some muppet joined here and claimed the adverts he was seeing at the top of the Islamicboard page was always advertising pornographic websites and he was appalled at this display of advert on the sites main page... yet when I explained how google ad-words pool his search results from google and then display the relevant adverts to his interests on Islamicboard, he quickly ran off with his tail between his legs lol.

it's no secret, we got some real idiots on this forum who would rather discuss Islam from their "opinion" instead of from knowledge of the subject itself.

So when you write - one can't blame the extremists, people need to educate themselves - I ask, do you have a brain in that skull of yours? because I see no logic in such a wild statement.

Opinions are fitan, when they come from the "self"... let that be known clearly.

Scimi
I am happy to see people like you.
Reply

Cpt.America
06-13-2016, 09:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
I am not ignoring Allah's (SWT) guidance.

I am just asking for Justice. I just want to see the Justice of Allah :Swt:

So I will ask Allah SWT, In shaa' Allah.

May Allah SWT forgive me and remove whatever pride I have. Ameen.

What wrong is there in asking Allah SWT? I'd love to see the Justice of Allah SWT. The wrath of Allah SWT.

I want to see Allah SWT's Justice.
Do not ask for this.
The destroyed nations of the past would taunt their messengers and ask "when is justice going to come?"
We know Allah's Justice is perfect.
And we also know that Allah is Most Merciful.
And that Allah's Mercy outweighs His wrath.

If we ask to see justice against people, if ask to see Allah's wrath.
Then be ready to pay for our own sins.

I am not perfect. I know my sins. I need Allah's Mercy to have time to correct myself. I am not ready to face the full weight of my sins against me.

If Allah gave Firawn time after he was killing babies.
If Allah gave Firawn time after being sent a Prophet.
If Allah gave Firawn time after being sent plague after plague to turn him to the straight path.
Then I hold on to dear hope that Allah gives me time to correct myself and improve my Imaan.

Firawn ignored every chance and every warning and all the time he was given. His time is up, and he will receive full justice.

Are you ready for justice right now? Are you ready for the full brunt of your sins right now?
If you are, then your confidence is something I can never match in myself.
If you are not, then let us seek Allah's Mercy and make use of the time we are given here to defeat our naffs and remedy our sins and turn to Allah,
instead of worrying about how other people will be punished.

The wrong doers will be punished. With a taste of the punishment in this life and the full brunt of their deeds in the hereafter. I assure you. Read the Quran.

But my fear is that I may be one of those wrong doers. So let me have my time, to be a better person. Please do not ask for punishment. do not seek to hasten it.
Reply

Cpt.America
06-13-2016, 09:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
These two sentences leave a lot to be desired.

You can't blame the extremists for being extreme? Then what can you blame? Their ignorance? Isn't that part and parcel of the very same thing?

Today they have no excuses - we live in a world of INFORMATION, where any two bit idiot can learn anything, if they only search for it.

If someone is inclined to do evil, they will search of that which is evil.

Heck I remember last year when some muppet joined here and claimed the adverts he was seeing at the top of the Islamicboard page was always advertising pornographic websites and he was appalled at this display of advert on the sites main page... yet when I explained how google ad-words pool his search results from google and then display the relevant adverts to his interests on Islamicboard, he quickly ran off with his tail between his legs lol.

it's no secret, we got some real idiots on this forum who would rather discuss Islam from their "opinion" instead of from knowledge of the subject itself.

So when you write - one can't blame the extremists, people need to educate themselves - I ask, do you have a brain in that skull of yours? because I see no logic in such a wild statement.

Opinions are fitan, when they come from the "self"... let that be known clearly.

Scimi
Lol

Terrible. Some people...
Did you at least help him learn how to install ad blocker pro?

I hope that in the time since he's learned to avoid those things InshaaAllah
Reply

Serinity
06-13-2016, 09:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cpt.America
Do not ask for this.
The destroyed nations of the past would taunt their messengers and ask "when is justice going to come?"
We know Allah's Justice is perfect.
And we also know that Allah is Most Merciful.
And that Allah's Mercy outweighs His wrath.

If we ask to see justice against people, if ask to see Allah's wrath.
Then be ready to pay for our own sins.

I am not perfect. I know my sins. I need Allah's Mercy to have time to correct myself. I am not ready to face the full weight of my sins against me.

If Allah gave Firawn time after he was killing babies.
If Allah gave Firawn time after being sent a Prophet.
If Allah gave Firawn time after being sent plague after plague to turn him to the straight path.
Then I hold on to dear hope that Allah gives me time to correct myself and improve my Imaan.

Firawn ignored every chance and every warning and all the time he was given. His time is up, and he will receive full justice.

Are you ready for justice right now? Are you ready for the full brunt of your sins right now?
If you are, then your confidence is something I can never match in myself.
If you are not, then let us seek Allah's Mercy and make use of the time we are given here to defeat our naffs and remedy our sins and turn to Allah,
instead of worrying about how other people will be punished.

The wrong doers will be punished. With a taste of the punishment in this life and the full brunt of their deeds in the hereafter. I assure you. Read the Quran.

But my fear is that I may be one of those wrong doers. So let me have my time, to be a better person. Please do not ask for punishment. do not seek to hasten it.
I am trying to seek Allah SWT's love through His SWT Justice.

I don't want punishment. I want Mercy.

I never asked for Allah SWT to punish me. I just seek His SWT Justice. And Mercy too.
Reply

Scimitar
06-13-2016, 09:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cpt.America
Lol

Terrible. Some people...
Did you at least help him learn how to install ad blocker pro?

I hope that in the time since he's learned to avoid those things InshaaAllah
Lol, no, that was the last we heard of him.

Shame really, he should have stayed here, it's a better environment than the jungle we call the world wide web.

I, myself, have had my share of embarrassments on this forum, take for example the sad state I was in when I first joined here - but that's no reason to let my embarrassment get the better of me to the point where i chop nose to spite face (read that as leave and not learn anything). Sticking around works...

I can't remember who said it but this always comes to mind. "when you are going thru hell, for God's sake whatever you do, don't stop there"... makes a hecklotta sense to me,

Scimi
Reply

Serinity
06-13-2016, 09:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Fear Allah brother. You have not even completed reading the entire Quran. If SCHOLARS who have spent the majority of their lifetime acquiring knowledge and practicing their deen aren't out and about killing people, then you have no say in who gets killed and who stays alive. That's Allah's job. The biggest reward of the believer is to see Allah's face on the day of judgement. You will not even have that blessing if you transgress your religion, you will just be questioned and punished. Allah is just and with His justice comes His grave punishment. The Quran, hadith, and the messenger of Allah pbuh answer all of the questions we need in order to live our lives righteously. If you want to overlook the guidance Allah ordained for us to follow, then be aware that the pride you have now to "ask Allah questions" will not be there on the day of humiliation. You'd be lucky to even let out a breath.
Some of what you say resonate with what my mom said.

I am happy to see people like you. :
Reply

Ineed Umar
06-13-2016, 09:27 PM
Welp How to block a wall of islamophobe articles from LGBT community on my phone's edge screen? Thanks A lot daesh for ruining my Day.

Besides in Ramadan shedding blood is haram imo and you should mostly spend time praying and performing ibaadah. Let us not consider the men murdered (which is a big loss and sorrow) and see if any good came from it.

Muslim hate ❌
Bloodshed in Ramadan ❌
More votes for trump by lgbt which means destruction of America❌
More bombings in syria❌
Saudis got sued for 9/11 probably would be for Paris and this too❌
Muslims get stricter checking in airport❌
Anarchy between communities❌

Sigh~
Reply

muslimah_B
06-13-2016, 09:44 PM
I just saw this on the news
And i was saying to myself
"Please dont say he was muslim, please dont say he was muslim"
Then it turns out he was afgani apparently bi-polar and a wife beater [emoji19]
Like honestly what is going on in the world, its going more and more crazy as time goes on, la illaha illAllah !!!!!

We have absolute idiots taking peoples lives in the name of Islam UNJUSTIFIABLY, and half of these idiots cry about sharia cry about injustices but do injustice themselves, who go against sharia themselevs... ***well how exactly is the way yoacting based on any sharia, where is the judge, to give a proper ruling and look on the facts and evidence of said crime before punishment
no one is allowed to take someones life in such a disgusting manner unless you directly are in a war or defending yourself.
WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND BY THAT ******

I dont understand how these "people" get the concept in their head it is acceptable to act this way in any shape or form
You live in the west you follow the laws of the country unless it directly goes against Allahs laws, sharia cannot be established untill the MAJORITY of the population of that country or place is muslim, we are the minority hence forth we follow laws of the land untill we are able to move to muslim lands or a land begins being ruled by sharia

This just makes it harder for every muslim to live their lives on a day to day basis, we already have people beating and harrasing muslims in the west as these things carry on it will get worse for us

Middle east is getting blown to pieces our brothers and sisters are dying in the most horrible and un-human ways and in the west we are being attacked but to no extent of our other brothers and sisters. Is anywhere going to be safe for muslims to just proclaim faith

Honestly whenever i hear about these things it just reminds me why Allah is going to be so furious on the day of judgment, i mean look at people all throughout history and now,
killing people horribly
rape is rife
Serial killers
Peadophiles
People torturing people
Corrupt governments
Hunting animals for trophies not food, torturing them
Gays are becoming rife
Athiests
And the list can go on but do we really have to wonder why Allah is going to be so furious, we are so lucky to be muslim and have the prophet mohammed s.a.w to intercede for us and the tinyiest of opportunity to go jannah

May Allah protect us all, and let us die with emaan in our hearts and la ilaha ilAllah on our toungues.ameen

***ranting nearlly over***
Reply

Cpt.America
06-13-2016, 09:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muslimah_B
I just saw this on the news
And i was saying to myself
"Please dont say he was muslim, please dont say he was muslim"
Then it turns out he was afgani apparently bi-polar and a wife beater [emoji19]
Like honestly what is going on in the world, its going more and more crazy as time goes on, la illaha illAllah !!!!!

We have absolute idiots taking peoples lives in the name of Islam UNJUSTIFIABLY, and half of these idiots cry about sharia cry about injustices but do injustice themselves, who go against sharia themselevs... ***well how exactly is the way yoacting based on any sharia, where is the judge, to give a proper ruling and look on the facts and evidence of said crime before punishment
no one is allowed to take someones life in such a disgusting manner unless you directly are in a war or defending yourself.
WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND BY THAT ******

I dont understand how these "people" get the concept in their head it is acceptable to act this way in any shape or form
You live in the west you follow the laws of the country unless it directly goes against Allahs laws, sharia cannot be established untill the MAJORITY of the population of that country or place is muslim, we are the minority hence forth we follow laws of the land untill we are able to move to muslim lands or a land begins being ruled by sharia

This just makes it harder for every muslim to live their lives on a day to day basis, we already have people beating and harrasing muslims in the west as these things carry on it will get worse for us

Middle east is getting blown to pieces our brothers and sisters are dying in the most horrible and un-human ways and in the west we are being attacked but to no extent of our other brothers and sisters. Is anywhere going to be safe for muslims to just proclaim faith

Honestly whenever i hear about these things it just reminds me why Allah is going to be so furious on the day of judgment, i mean look at people all throughout history and now,
killing people horribly
rape is rife
Serial killers
Peadophiles
People torturing people
Corrupt governments
Hunting animals for trophies not food, torturing them
Gays are becoming rife
Athiests
And the list can go on but do we really have to wonder why Allah is going to be so furious, we are so lucky to be muslim and have the prophet mohammed s.a.w to intercede for us and the tinyiest of opportunity to go jannah

May Allah protect us all, and let us die with emaan in our hearts and la ilaha ilAllah on our toungues.ameen

***ranting nearlly over***
It is not a rant if it is the truth.
Reply

Cpt.America
06-13-2016, 09:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
You make some good points. I think I was too harsh to say what I said.

I've always had trouble with empathy though and being empathetic to others. I'm an incredibly selfish person astaghfirullah. Even caring about those closest to me sometimes proves difficult.

Thanks for reminding me
It was as much a reminder to myself as to anyone reading.
I know that I have to turn to Allah to make my heart softer and my character more in line with that which is pleasing to Him,
as shown to us by the exemplary examples of the Prophets and their companions and the pious men and women beloved to Allah,
especially the unparalleled character of Prophet Muhammad SAWS.

If you can diagnose your own flaws, it means that your heart is not arrogant Alahmdulillah. May Allah give you and the rest of us to overcome our deficiencies.
Reply

Scimitar
06-13-2016, 09:54 PM
I tell you a good joke... real funny.

A married muslim goes to a night club, in ramadhan.

Told you it was funny.

Scimi
Reply

AbdurRahman.
06-13-2016, 09:55 PM
he was incensed to see two men kissing in front of his wife and kid, so he planned to 'teach them a lesson'; lol what a nutter! :Emoji46:
Reply

Cpt.America
06-13-2016, 09:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
I tell you a good joke... real funny.

A married muslim goes to a night club, in ramadhan.

Told you it was funny.

Scimi
I crie everytiem.

Well I can one up your joke my bro:

A married Muslim goes to a GAY night club, in Ramadan.
Reply

muslimah_B
06-13-2016, 09:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cpt.America
It is not a rant if it is the truth.
I know but this is just driving me absolutely crazy

They make life harder for all of us here, its hard enough as it is to go out without idiots starting fights or shouting vulgar language towards us, but these things are not going to stop, we wont stop being harrassed, bullied, treated as lesser human beings even in the west especially the u.k and USA where equal rights and human rights are always screamed about

I mean i know these SILLY people (nicest language i could use on here) didnt think about it before they done it (and with all the other actions) but absolutely no care for the impact their actions will cause on the ummah here in the west and how their actions will backfire and send more troops and bombs in the middle east, honestly some of these SILLY PEOPLE need a seriously good beating and a drag down to reality about their religion and the sharia they claim to love oh so much
Everytime i hear these things it makes my blood boil !

If its a white dude who kills someone, he is mentally instable and needs help

A asian/arab/black dude kills someone, his race and/or his religion is immediately the root cause of the issue and blazed across the news, more so if they are muslim the religion then becomes the problem and all muslims are the same ASTAGFIRLLAH
then apparently we need to "mordenise" our religion to keep up with times now or we need a revise of it as its too violent ASTAGFIRLLAH
Reply

Scimitar
06-13-2016, 09:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cpt.America
I crie everytiem.

Well I can one up your joke my bro:

A married Muslim goes to a GAY night club, in Ramadan.
I know man... all I see is red flags.

As for Da-Man, you know, that funky dude they call Uncle Sam... oh boy oh boy, his finger looks like one half of a twix. He waves it one more time in front of my face, I'm a bite it off - providing its past iftar time :D

Scimi
Reply

Ineed Umar
06-13-2016, 10:01 PM
A married man just got fed up with his boring wife and went for alternatives in Ramadan. He came across a GAY nightclub and couldn't keep his big guns intact so he started shooting viscously. Ba dum tsss
Reply

muslimah_B
06-13-2016, 10:05 PM
Maybe a bit to earli to make jokes ?!?

(Unless it end with someone punching him in the face and telling him to fear Allah and he cries and runs home)
Reply

EgyptPrincess
06-13-2016, 10:10 PM
What I don't understand is if these morons really want to kill people for the sake of Allah swt then why not kill actual soldiers or combatants? Soldiers, sailors, politicians etc?

Why is it always again the civilians? Killing innocent unarmed civilians is the very definition of being a coward. If you're going to do something like this at least have the heart to do it to those who do to you.

If a bully beats your family up, you don't beat his neighbours family up -_-
Reply

Ineed Umar
06-13-2016, 10:13 PM
Just search Omar Mir Seddique Mateen and see his pics. Just tell me does he look like a practising muslim to you really? Looksort more like a rapper gangsta in some pucs



"10/10 Musleem confirmed threat are all Muslims eliminate them" IGN


The last line is a joke do not take it seriously.
Reply

EgyptPrincess
06-13-2016, 10:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ineed Umar
Just search Omar Mir Seddique Mateen and see his pics. Just tell me does he look like a practising muslim to you really? Looksort more like a rapper gangsta in some pucs



"10/10 Musleem confirmed threat are all Muslims eliminate them" IGN


The last line is a joke do not take it seriously.
He probably played too much call of duty

Reply

Scimitar
06-13-2016, 10:18 PM
You two need to learn how HASBARA operate, and what a FALSE FLAG is.

Scimi
Reply

Aisha
06-13-2016, 10:20 PM
I'm going to close this thread. Thanks everyone for keeping it civil so far. This type of discussion really doesn't benefit us, especially in Ramadhan.
OP, if you'd like the thread re-opened after Ramadhan, please PM a member of staff.
Reply

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