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EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 01:32 AM
As-salaam alaikum,

I just had a super weird experience... I was watching some youtube videos and stumbled across Sam Harris. King kufr, or maybe that's Dawkins? Anyway he was talking about spiritual awareness, mediation and I was listening to the way he meditates and thought I'd give it a try, I felt a bit silly doing it but it's so strange.

Essentially you close your eyes and try to observe complete silence, then you just release your mind and let your mind run free. What this means is you just let your mind think about whatever comes into it and you actively try to acknowledge what it is you're thinking about. Then you purposefully try to acknowledge your existence, this may sound obvious as you know you exist but he said really try to feel the "self" inside you and that you really do exist. I think what he was getting at is that we are so busy with out lives that we forget we even "exist". Just take a moment to realise that you are in your chair, which is in a house, which is on a planet, which is in a solar system etc ... which is in the universe. It was pretty strange.

So basically I'm laying there in my chair with earplugs in for complete silence and I just let me mind run completely free and think about whatever comes into my mind and it had some proper trippy freaky thoughts... I thought about cutting butter with a pigeon, javelin throwing a radiator, boxing with socks for gloves and diving into a soap bubble and popping it from the inside out and then teleporting into the ocean. There are so many other random completely illogical thoughts.

I had plenty of normal thoughts as well of course. Then I started to focus on my breathing and the feel of my heart beating in my chest and the weight of my body in the chair, the pressure from my legs on the chair etc and really focusing on it. Alhamdulillah I felt pretty strange, I felt for the first time that I am actually real. It's hard to explain... obviously I know I'm real but I never take the time to actually think about it lol.

I just wondered if anyone else meditates and what are you experiences? I feel a bit guilty copying this kufr but it's not haram to meditate. What a strange experience... :uuh:

Even the realisation that one day inshallah we're actually going to meet the prophet saaw and all the other prophets. We know this but I don't think we really sit down in complete silence and spend 15 minutes actually thinking about it. So awesome.
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*charisma*
06-14-2016, 01:48 AM
Walaikum Asalaam

I only reflect sometimes..I'm quite retrospective as well. I like to relieve stress by writing or doing some physical activities. Never actually did meditation as you described though. I try to put that type of focus in Salaah and sujuud.
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EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 01:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
Walaikum Asalaam

I only reflect sometimes..I'm quite retrospective as well. I like to relieve stress by writing or doing some physical activities. Never actually did meditation as you described though. I try to put that type of focus in Salaah and sujuud.
Yeah that is what we typically do when we meditate but even then our minds are occupied. With this style of meditation the aim is to just let your mind run free and think about whatever it wants to. It's strange because your brain starts pairing things together that would never usually go together.

Like cutting butter with a pigeon... I was like what the hell when that thought came into my mind :omg:

There was other strange ones too like swimming in grass and throwing a red banana into a golf hole. I mean I don't even play golf! So strange, from a neuroscience point of view I am absolutely fascinated as to what causes these random thoughts which are completely illogical and never actually happen in the real world.

As a guess I would say that your brain is trying to think of the next thought before you've actually had time to think about what you want to think about so it generates a kind of random thought that doesn't make sense... because it's random.

You can try this yourself if you try to think of an animal really really quickly, after a few animals you'll start to struggle to think of an animal even though there are thousands you could pick lol. So if you did this in silence in your head, when your brain is trying to think of the next animal you'll get a different thought like the colour purple or a brick or something totally random.

You had to think super fast though :)
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*charisma*
06-14-2016, 02:21 AM
I think that's the difference between introverted and extroverted people. Introverts are in their own heads ALL THE TIME and it can be very annoying, so for me its like meditation is what happens when I go through my bouts of insomnia. I'll try to sleep and clear my mind, but the weirdest thoughts will come in my head and I get creative too ;D Sometimes I think that I should have a paper and pencil near by. I also solve things in my sleep sometimes. Once I could not for the life of me figure out an answer to a bio chem question, and it came to me in a dream. I felt like a genius :D

For extroverts I think that meditating, relaxing, or just taking quiet time can be very useful for them to just take time out of their day and reflect on themselves and the world around them.
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muslimah_B
06-14-2016, 02:22 AM
I tried it once before, just sitting in a room in silence trying to clear my head, it doesnt help me at all to relax and makes me even more stresssed out, as my brain wont chill out, its like "oh ok my time to wreck havoc and think about everything now, see how you like that for working me too hard earlia"
(yea sorry i am a tad bit "crazy" :)
Honestly silences dont do good for me, my brain has to constantly do something or im in trouble lol (i go through so many hobbies lol)
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drac16
06-14-2016, 05:04 AM
Yeah, I meditate. I meditate to help cope with anxiety. When I have an anxiety attack, my chest feels tight, almost like someone is putting pressure on it. What I do is that I visualize a channel that starts from my chest and ends at the crown of my head. I picture myself ejecting the anxious energy out of my head. More often than not, it works. Alhamdulillah. :)

There are also times when I meditate in which I feel spiritual ecstasy. I make dhikr while my eyes are closed. After a while, it feels like someone is massaging my spiritual heart and my chest. After I do a few rounds of dhikr, I visualize breath going in and out of my lungs (I don't know why my chest plays such a big role in both kinds of meditations, though. lol). I feel closer to God and it's such a good feeling that I almost cry tears of joy. Islam is about being sober minded over and above ecstasy, though, so I tend to only meditate when I need spiritual medicine (so to speak). Being sober minded is more important than having spiritual ecstasy.
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 05:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*
I think that's the difference between introverted and extroverted people. Introverts are in their own heads ALL THE TIME and it can be very annoying, so for me its like meditation is what happens when I go through my bouts of insomnia. I'll try to sleep and clear my mind, but the weirdest thoughts will come in my head and I get creative too ;D Sometimes I think that I should have a paper and pencil near by. I also solve things in my sleep sometimes. Once I could not for the life of me figure out an answer to a bio chem question, and it came to me in a dream. I felt like a genius :D

For extroverts I think that meditating, relaxing, or just taking quiet time can be very useful for them to just take time out of their day and reflect on themselves and the world around them.
That's why I carry around my moleskine.. >_> i like writing on that thing so much @_@
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noraina
06-14-2016, 06:25 AM
I am an introvert, and I don't really meditate but I do think a lot, if that counts lol. In my psychology book they say introverts have complex imaginations, which makes them very creative. I'd say that's true.

I adore nature, I spend a lot of time outside, even in the dead of winter, :D and I really enjoy it. Meditating/reflecting/thinking about life and your place in the world are really liberating experiences, they bring you closer to Allah swt and understanding your purpose in this dunya.

My creative peak is at dawn, sometime after Fajr - seriously. I don't sleep much at all so most days I'll be painting in the early hours of the morning, that is when I produce my masterpieces. :p

This reminds me of a quote by Rumi 'Silence is the language of God, all else is poor translation'.
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Pygoscelis
06-14-2016, 07:02 AM
I meditate weekly. It helps clear my mind of clutter after a stressful week. I actually wouldn't want to live without it.
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T L
06-14-2016, 09:33 AM
You do realise that this form of meditation of "clearing your mind" is a practice and teaching of kuffar.
Meditation is widely marketed by all those self-worshipping, tree-hugging "spiritualists" who have no concept of the One true God and Abrahamic faith.
So why buy into that crap?
You're not "clearing your mind", you're focusing on yourself and your ego, rather than the Almighty. May He be Glorified!

The truest form of any meditation is Salah and Dhikr. Why even waste a single brain wave on illogical thoughts, selling yourself to satan? Does our Creator not deserve us to worship Him in every given breath? Do you not reflect?

Think about what you're doing and why you're doing it.
We're living in an age of deception. God gave us intellect and reason. Use it.
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EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 01:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by L V
You do realise that this form of meditation of "clearing your mind" is a practice and teaching of kuffar.
Meditation is widely marketed by all those self-worshipping, tree-hugging "spiritualists" who have no concept of the One true God and Abrahamic faith.
So why buy into that crap?
You're not "clearing your mind", you're focusing on yourself and your ego, rather than the Almighty. May He be Glorified!

The truest form of any meditation is Salah and Dhikr. Why even waste a single brain wave on illogical thoughts, selling yourself to satan? Does our Creator not deserve us to worship Him in every given breath? Do you not reflect?

Think about what you're doing and why you're doing it.
We're living in an age of deception. God gave us intellect and reason. Use it.
So we should spend every moment of our lives thinking only about Allah swt? Don't be ridiculous... if that was the case he would have created us in a box, he gave us our lives and our world for a reason. The prophet saaw meditated extensively, not just about Allah swt and the Quran but about life and the world.

Allah swt also gave us imagination, thought, serotonin and dopamine. I really detest the Muslims that think nothing is allowed in this dunya than to worship Allah swt.
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'abd al-hakeem
06-14-2016, 01:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
So we should spend every moment of our lives thinking only about Allah swt? Don't be ridiculous... if that was the case he would have created us in a box, he gave us our lives and our world for a reason. The prophet saaw meditated extensively, not just about Allah swt and the Quran but about life and the world.

Allah swt also gave us imagination, thought, serotonin and dopamine. I really detest the Muslims that think nothing is allowed in this dunya than to worship Allah swt.

Audhu billah - May Allah guide you, amin. Astaghfirullah
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muslimah_B
06-14-2016, 01:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
So we should spend every moment of our lives thinking only about Allah swt? Don't be ridiculous... if that was the case he would have created us in a box, he gave us our lives and our world for a reason. The prophet saaw meditated extensively, not just about Allah swt and the Quran but about life and the world.

Allah swt also gave us imagination, thought, serotonin and dopamine. I really detest the Muslims that think nothing is allowed in this dunya than to worship Allah swt.
Sis i understand where your coming from, but you need to word it differently.

Our whole purpose is to worship Allah and be totally devoted to Allah 100% making our hearts be attacthed to Allah, that whenever we are not talking or thinking about Allah our hearts are sad, that is the ultimate goal in this dunya.

Ofcourse everyone needs downtime, time to themselves, but everything always has to relate back to Allah
So lets say your taking a nice walk through a park or forest, it helps connect you back to Allah that Allah made this beautiful place, Allah made those beautiful animals, how they move,interact, what they do is all designed by Allah alot of people when low on emaan or having a rough time, like to be with nature to reflect and remind themselevs of how powerfull Allah is to have made the sun stars the sea, the whole processes that earth goes through i.e the water cycle, mountains being pegs for the earth.

Look of course nobody can be in constant rememberance of Allah from the start of a waking day till we go sleep, people have lives ahve jobs, family matters to deal with and through these occasions Allah slips our mind, but the whole point is to throughout this time remember Allah, as Allah is always meant to come first
You got a new nice job, you worked for it - no Allah gave you the knowledge and opportunity to get that job, He gave you the capacity to use what He gave you to get that job

So when your not doing anything your not distracted, the time spent should be focusing on Allah, His deen, His prophets, etc etc

Sometimes our imagination is what can drag us down and think along the lines of what shaytan would want us to do,
There are such brilliant minds out there that have been blessed by Allah, Allah allowed them to have all this knowledge, nothing happens because of you as a person it is always down to the will of Allah, this is why everything has to refer or reflect back to Allah, there is still so much in life we dont understand maybe will never even know, secrets and mysteries of the earth, worlds and universe maybe meditate on that :)
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'abd al-hakeem
06-14-2016, 02:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by L V
You do realise that this form of meditation of "clearing your mind" is a practice and teaching of kuffar. Meditation is widely marketed by all those self-worshipping, tree-hugging "spiritualists" who have no concept of the One true God and Abrahamic faith. So why buy into that crap? You're not "clearing your mind", you're focusing on yourself and your ego, rather than the Almighty. May He be Glorified! The truest form of any meditation is Salah and Dhikr. Why even waste a single brain wave on illogical thoughts, selling yourself to satan? Does our Creator not deserve us to worship Him in every given breath? Do you not reflect?

Think about what you're doing and why you're doing it. We're living in an age of deception. God gave us intellect and reason. Use it.
Are all such visualisation afflictions rooted in kufr? What of idly staring off into space and visualising a coherent thought?
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EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 02:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Challenged
Audhu billah - May Allah guide you, amin. Astaghfirullah
....



format_quote Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Sis i understand where your coming from, but you need to word it differently.

Our whole purpose is to worship Allah and be totally devoted to Allah 100% making our hearts be attacthed to Allah, that whenever we are not talking or thinking about Allah our hearts are sad, that is the ultimate goal in this dunya.

Ofcourse everyone needs downtime, time to themselves, but everything always has to relate back to Allah
So lets say your taking a nice walk through a park or forest, it helps connect you back to Allah that Allah made this beautiful place, Allah made those beautiful animals, how they move,interact, what they do is all designed by Allah alot of people when low on emaan or having a rough time, like to be with nature to reflect and remind themselevs of how powerfull Allah is to have made the sun stars the sea, the whole processes that earth goes through i.e the water cycle, mountains being pegs for the earth.

Look of course nobody can be in constant rememberance of Allah from the start of a waking day till we go sleep, people have lives ahve jobs, family matters to deal with and through these occasions Allah slips our mind, but the whole point is to throughout this time remember Allah, as Allah is always meant to come first
You got a new nice job, you worked for it - no Allah gave you the knowledge and opportunity to get that job, He gave you the capacity to use what He gave you to get that job

So when your not doing anything your not distracted, the time spent should be focusing on Allah, His deen, His prophets, etc etc

Sometimes our imagination is what can drag us down and think along the lines of what shaytan would want us to do,
There are such brilliant minds out there that have been blessed by Allah, Allah allowed them to have all this knowledge, nothing happens because of you as a person it is always down to the will of Allah, this is why everything has to refer or reflect back to Allah, there is still so much in life we dont understand maybe will never even know, secrets and mysteries of the earth, worlds and universe maybe meditate on that :)
I'm wording is as my mouth would speak it. I'm not going to sugar coat how I feel.

When you are chilling with a friend, it's like kufr. You should be thinking about god.
When you play a game, it's like kufr. You should be thinking about god.
When you ride a roller-coaster, it's like kufr. You should be thinking about god.

We cannot think about god every waking minute as you said, it's probably impossible. The people that said they like to clear their minds, it's a way to release stress from our systems and make more room for Allah swt. @L V was implying that we should never be doing anything other than worshipping Allah swt which I disagree with. Show me where it says we must think and worship him 24/7?

Yes we must reflect back and praise Allah for our experiences as it is due to him that such an experience was even possible. Worship is different to appreciation, we should always show appreciation to Allah swt for our lives and experiences.
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 02:38 PM
Anyone that says we can't do something because the kufr is doing it. Please go out and throw your laptops, your screen tv, your phone and renounce everything that a kufr is also doing.

Geez people.
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EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 02:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bhabha
Anyone that says we can't do something because the kufr is doing it. Please go out and throw your laptops, your screen tv, your phone and renounce everything that a kufr is also doing.

Geez people.
Not only that but they're using devices created by kufr to tell us we cannot do what kufr do. LOL
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Bhabha
06-14-2016, 02:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Not only that but they're using devices created by kufr to tell us we cannot do what kufr do. LOL
Exactly lol.

People need to chill out and take things down a notch. Islam is supposed to be moderate and it's not supposed to be a burden.

[emoji39][emoji39][emoji39]

I also agree that we have been given creativity and imagination and these things from اللهُ.

But I'll fix the wording on some bros and sisters here. What I think is meant to be said is that all of our actions should be acts of worshiping. So if you meditate, do it with good intentions. If you go to school, do it with the right intentions. Etc. So that all of your being is geared towards making a connection everyday. For example when I garden, I garden so that birds and animals can eat it and so can my family. Little things can be acts of worship, charity, gratitude, etc. But to establish deeper connection with اللهُ and to make you a stronger believer.
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muslimah_B
06-14-2016, 02:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
....





I'm wording is as my mouth would speak it. I'm not going to sugar coat how I feel.

When you are chilling with a friend, it's like kufr. You should be thinking about god.
When you play a game, it's like kufr. You should be thinking about god.
When you ride a roller-coaster, it's like kufr. You should be thinking about god.

We cannot think about god every waking minute as you said, it's probably impossible. The people that said they like to clear their minds, it's a way to release stress from our systems and make more room for Allah swt. @L V was implying that we should never be doing anything other than worshipping Allah swt which I disagree with. Show me where it says we must think and worship him 24/7?

Yes we must reflect back and praise Allah for our experiences as it is due to him that such an experience was even possible. Worship is different to appreciation, we should always show appreciation to Allah swt for our lives and experiences.

Its not about sugar coating how you feel, its being respecfull when you mention anything to do with Allah, there should be no tones or attitudes or huffs or puffs
You may not like the idea of it but islam is about full submission to Allah end of.

The point im making is that, in this dunya the entire point of our existance is to worship, remember, be gratefull to Allah,
this is the aim of every muslim from their waking moment to sleep they have Allah in their thought process, whatever happend they said Alhamdulilah and are are gratefull, its not impossible its a TEST and a hard test at that where no distraction from this dunya takes you away from Allah
The smallest things to the biggest things are a reminder of Allah

Its not easy, theres so many distractions in life to waste time away from Allah all mainly from shaytan but the fact of saying that its impossible and that we shouldnt is a wrong statement to make,
Allah created you, created everything in this universe, by the will of Allah your allowed to breath, see, touch smell, use your brain etc etc all by Allah, Allah deserves all of our time, our dedication etc etc

Some people find it peaceful to pray, remember Allah, and be in nature it is a reminder to us of Allahs power and oneness

Remembering, obeying and being gratefull to Allah is a form of worship to Allah, worshiping Allah is not just left to praying and fasting

Eg a man is supposed to go out and earn money for his family to feed clothe his wife and kids, this is a dunya matter but still a form of worship to Allah as you are obeying Allah.
Obeying, remembering gratefullnes = worshipping Allah

The whole point of remembering/obeying/gratefulness to Allah is that we fall further away from sin, we ultimately go jannah and gain closeness and the pleasure of Allahs blessings and mercy

Life is not a game its not always full of fun times or grand memories, and you will not always get to do what you want that's how it is, this dunya is a testing ground to seperate out those who believe and dont believe, those who deserve jannah or jahhanumm, you make sacrifices here to do whatever you want forever in jannah

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said,*“The world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the unbeliever.”

Source: Sahih Muslim 2956

They disbelivers get to do whatever they want in life and they believe there will be no consequences for their actions and lack of.

We believers Ofcourse theres stuff we want to do but cant, because we have Allah to answer to, on judgement day we will be asked what we used to do with our time, our life, our health, our own limbs will speak either for us or against us... now im sure everyone here wants their hands and eyes to say we spent our time in some form of worship to Allah not wasting time etc

i would love to sit down all day and watch tv films shows cartoons and play ps4 but i know i cant, it wastes my time and takes me away from getting closer to Allah, so i limit my interactions with wasting my time and try to keep slowly limiting it, or if im wasting my time i try and make it islamic at best or make it islamic or refer it to islam
(No1 is perfect but we should atleast try to be the best we can be by sacrificing these things for the sake of Allah and our very souls)
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EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 03:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Its not about sugar coating how you feel, its being respecfull when you mention anything to do with Allah, there should be no tones or attitudes or huffs or puffs
You may not like the idea of it but islam is about full submission to Allah end of.

The point im making is that, in this dunya the entire point of our existance is to worship, remember, be gratefull to Allah,
this is the aim of every muslim from their waking moment to sleep they have Allah in their thought process, whatever happend they said Alhamdulilah and are are gratefull, its not impossible its a TEST and a hard test at that where no distraction from this dunya takes you away from Allah
The smallest things to the biggest things are a reminder of Allah

Its not easy, theres so many distractions in life to waste time away from Allah all mainly from shaytan but the fact of saying that its impossible and that we shouldnt is a wrong statement to make,
Allah created you, created everything in this universe, by the will of Allah your allowed to breath, see, touch smell, use your brain etc etc all by Allah, Allah deserves all of our time, our dedication etc etc

Some people find it peaceful to pray, remember Allah, and be in nature it is a reminder to us of Allahs power and oneness

Remembering, obeying and being gratefull to Allah is a form of worship to Allah, worshiping Allah is not just left to praying and fasting

Eg a man is supposed to go out and earn money for his family to feed clothe his wife and kids, this is a dunya matter but still a form of worship to Allah as you are obeying Allah.
Obeying, remembering gratefullnes = worshipping Allah

The whole point of remembering/obeying/gratefulness to Allah is that we fall further away from sin, we ultimately go jannah and gain closeness and the pleasure of Allahs blessings and mercy

Life is not a game its not always full of fun times or grand memories, and you will not always get to do what you want that's how it is, this dunya is a testing ground to seperate out those who believe and dont believe, those who deserve jannah or jahhanumm, you make sacrifices here to do whatever you want forever in jannah

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said,*“The world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the unbeliever.”

Source: Sahih Muslim 2956
Thank you for explaining. Can I ask, where do we draw the line though?

If I want to go shopping to buy a new pair of shoes, this is not pleasing Allah swt at all, it's purely 100% without any doubt for me and my ego. Is this not allowed? I am not allowed to buy a pair of pretty shoes because it makes me feel good which in turn is self absorption? You see where it starts to get out of control and suddenly nothing is permissible.

I have a nice bracelet that I like to wear, should I just take it off as it serves absolutely no purpose to the creator of the universe? Of course I say alhamdulillah that my father is able to buy it for me but it's still an unnecessary item so we just get rid of it? Where is the line between worshipping Allah swt and living to please him and allowing ourselves some personal pleasures? Such pleasures are not permissible or what?

Surely we are allowed to enjoy something for no other reason than because it makes us happy?
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muslimah_B
06-14-2016, 03:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
Thank you for explaining. Can I ask, where do we draw the line though?

If I want to go shopping to buy a new pair of shoes, this is not pleasing Allah swt at all, it's purely 100% without any doubt for me and my ego. Is this not allowed? I am not allowed to buy a pair of pretty shoes because it makes me feel good which in turn is self absorption? You see where it starts to get out of control and suddenly nothing is permissible.

I have a nice bracelet that I like to wear, should I just take it off as it serves absolutely no purpose to the creator of the universe? Of course I say alhamdulillah that my father is able to buy it for me but it's still an unnecessary item so we just get rid of it? Where is the line between worshipping Allah swt and living to please him and allowing ourselves some personal pleasures? Such pleasures are not permissible or what?

Surely we are allowed to enjoy something for no other reason than because it makes us happy?
Ofcourse you are lol
But you just have to know where to draw the line i.e do you really need it, can that not be spent doing something else thats better

Your allowed nice things but if it is a ego or pride thing you shouldnt indulge in it as pride can take you jahhanumm why would you indulge yourself into something that actually adds fuel into your fire so to speak.
Maybe re-check your intentions to, im gonna buy these shoes coz theyre really really pretty, and i have the means to buy them and i love preety things...Allah loves beautiful things and has given me the means to be able to buy these nice things, Alhamdulilah as other people cant even afford food (something along those lines in sha Allah just rectify your intentions)

The thing is that women like to look preety and nice and love nice things we are allowed to wear silk, gold silver etc etc, but if being able to buy and wear these things goes to our heads and makes us pridefull or makes us feel better than other people who dont have them then it becomes a problem, usually when people get what they want all the time and have money always have happy times they forget the times when they didnt have these "luxuries" they then become ungrateful self absored and loose all humbleness to people who dont have what they have
Then it can also leads to someone who may be flaunting and then somone gets jelous or envious and bang there goes evil eye.

You just have to be carefull

Ofcourse be happy enjoy life to the full extenxt you can but remember your lord allowed you that happiness and it can be taken away from you in the blink of an eye hence saying Alhamdulilah and being gratefull and humble and remembering that it came from Allah like your bracelet it came from Allah by the means of your dad :)

You have to think logically and practically but also rectify your intentions
Islam only becomes hard when you make it hard on yourself no1 is perfect but the aim is to strive
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EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 03:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muslimah_B
Ofcourse you are lol
But you just have to know where to draw the line i.e do you really need it, can that not be spent doing something else thats better

Your allowed nice things but if it is a ego or pride thing you shouldnt indulge in it as pride can take you jahhanumm why would you indulge yourself into something that actually adds fuel into your fire so to speak.
Maybe re-check your intentions to, im gonna buy these shoes coz theyre really really pretty, and i have the means to buy them and i love preety things...Allah loves beautiful things and has given me the means to be able to buy these nice things, Alhamdulilah as other people cant even afford food (something along those lines in sha Allah just rectify your intentions)

The thing is that women like to look preety and nice and love nice things we are allowed to wear silk, gold silver etc etc, but if being able to buy and wear these things goes to our heads and makes us pridefull or makes us feel better than other people who dont have them then it becomes a problem, usually when people get what they want all the time and have money always have happy times they forget the times when they didnt have these "luxuries" they then become ungrateful self absored and loose all humbleness to people who dont have what they have
Then it can also leads to someone who may be flaunting and then somone gets jelous or envious and bang there goes evil eye.

You just have to be carefull

Ofcourse be happy enjoy life to the full extenxt you can but remember your lord allowed you that happiness and it can be taken away from you in the blink of an eye hence saying Alhamdulilah and being gratefull and humble and remembering that it came from Allah like your bracelet it came from Allah by the means of your dad :)

You have to think logically and practically but also rectify your intentions
Islam only becomes hard when you make it hard on yourself no1 is perfect but the aim is to strive
I think the problem arises when you buy something to impress someone else or make someone else jealous. If I buy a new pair of shoes it's not for anyone else other than me because I like how they look or whatever. I am always grateful for everything I have. However back to meditation, I don't think there is anything wrong with spending a few minutes contemplating your life and awareness. For a lot of Muslims it's just a way to relax.

Thank you for explaining :)
Reply

T L
06-14-2016, 03:55 PM
LOL this is exactly what's wrong with the muslims of today. So compromised.

Only thinking about serving themselves rather than the Almighty. Sure you can buy yourself nice things, but do you reflect on who you're pleasing when you adorn yourself? Your Creator or others? You should be questioning everything you do. EVERYTHING should be for HIS sake and nobody elses. For HE gave you the ability to even make those decisions for yourself. Do you not reflect on the covenant that Allah swt took from us when He brought out the descendants of Adam as from his loin? Subhan'Allah the ummah of today!

Humble yourself, we are worth nothing, we are merely His Slaves.

And for the level of logic surrounding technology and why we shouldn't use it because it's kuffar......lol I hope you're kidding me there.
God has absolutely blessed us with technology, it's how we use it that we'll be judged on.

I think you've completely misunderstood what I've said regarding meditation. Our whole being should be in constant Dhikr of Allah Azza wa Jal, in everything we do we should be remembering Him and His Blessings. The whole concept of today's meditation is merely self worship and a waste of time spent on thoughts other than Allah, which I strongly disagree on. And if you cannot see that then well what exactly are you doing on an islamic board? The truth is harsh, I don't water things down for anyone, we will all be facing our graves. TRUTH.

And for @Challenged akhi there's no harm in visualising your thought processes through like as long as they're with the best of intentions for the Sake of pleasing Allah swt. (from what I understand of your question, forgive me if I have not understood it)

~LV
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 03:55 PM
Someone wrote that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh "meditated" in the cave, in the period before the prophethood was given to him.

This is wholly innaccurate.

Meditating involves the "empty mind" concept - I ask - do you really think the Prophet Muhammad pbuh went to a cave to empty his mind and forget the injustice that was occurring in Makkah?

NOOOO.

He went up there to think and be alone with his thoughts. Not to empty his mind.

You lot need to learn the definitions of words and their application principles more.

Meditation is boring, stupid and useless.

Oh and before someone chimes in with "breathing exercises" lol - I have an adrenal condition and I practice breathing exercises - guess what? It aint meditation. Sheesh.

Meditation is self excuse to disconnect from "reality". why would any Muslim want to disconnect from reality? Are you guys insane?

Scimi
Reply

EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 04:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by L V
God has absolutely blessed us with technology, it's how we use it that we'll be judged on.
God also blessed us with shoes and bags :statisfie I do take what you say seriously sister and I will reflect on it, no pun intended.

format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
Meditation is self excuse to disconnect from "reality". why would any Muslim want to disconnect from reality? Are you guys insane?
Scimi
It can be a way to release stress and tension.
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 04:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
So we should spend every moment of our lives thinking only about Allah swt? Don't be ridiculous... if that was the case he would have created us in a box, he gave us our lives and our world for a reason. The prophet saaw meditated extensively, not just about Allah swt and the Quran but about life and the world.

Allah swt also gave us imagination, thought, serotonin and dopamine. I really detest the Muslims that think nothing is allowed in this dunya than to worship Allah swt.
You live between two extremes don't you?

FIND THE MIDDLE PATH.

Scimi
Reply

EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 04:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
You live between two extremes don't you?

FIND THE MIDDLE PATH.

Scimi
How? I'm pretty lost to be honest :(
Reply

Arfa
06-14-2016, 04:19 PM
I don't usually meditate but have tried yoga and it's close to meditation.Its all about the now and living in the present moment .Meditation is beneficial too and you should continue that as a lot of times in our life we are so caught on the next big thing the next event function etc we forget to focus and enjoy the moment.Just Breathe and appreciate Allahs bounties for what we have we are and we live.Breathing deeply meditating prayer and supplication give you a sense of wellbeing .Its a great therapy for me :)Just trying to get five ten minutes for meditation is productive and does bring peace.Though I'm not consistent in yoga or meditating being introvert im usually in my head so don't need a lot of time to go even deeper in meditation but I guess few minutes do you good if you try.Specefically if you want to feel more relaxed and calm and if your always moving and being in a rush then it's pretty healthy to try.So yes I'd like to try meditation it all depends on how consistent you are and what works for you.:)
Reply

T L
06-14-2016, 04:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
God also blessed us with shoes and bags :statisfie I do take what you say seriously sister and I will reflect on it, no pun intended.



It can be a way to release stress and tension.
We mean what we say with love ukhti, reflect on everything with an open heart. Allah says, “Take one step towards me, I will take ten steps towards you. Walk towards me, I will run towards you.” [Hadith Qudsi]

Peace be upon you
Reply

sister herb
06-14-2016, 04:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
Meditation is self excuse to disconnect from "reality". why would any Muslim want to disconnect from reality? Are you guys insane?

Scimi
To you meditation might be this. To someone else it´s something very different and then it´s not insanity.
Reply

EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 04:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Arfa
I don't usually meditate but have tried yoga and it's close to meditation.Its all about the now and living in the present moment .Meditation is beneficial too and you should continue that as a lot of times in our life we are so caught on the next big thing the next event function etc we forget to focus and enjoy the moment.Just Breathe and appreciate Allahs bounties for what we have we are and we live.Breathing deeply meditating prayer and supplication give you a sense of wellbeing .Its a great therapy for me :)Just trying to get five ten minutes for meditation is productive and does bring peace.Though I'm not consistent in yoga or meditating being introvert im usually in my head so don't need a lot of time to go even deeper in meditation but I guess few minutes do you good if you try.Specefically if you want to feel more relaxed and calm and if your always moving and being in a rush then it's pretty healthy to try.So yes I'd like to try meditation it all depends on how consistent you are and what works for you.:)
And this @Timi Scar is why I am confused and lost. It seems everyone has different opinions about all kinds of things nobody really seems to know what path to follow. All we can do is try to be the best muslim we can and to follow the Quran and Sunnah the best we can.
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 04:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
How? I'm pretty lost to be honest :(
I'll help you sister, if I am able to, in sha Allah.

In Islam we have every solution to every human condition known. Every single one.

First of all, before I continue, I want it to be understood that all human beings, since Adam Alalihis Salam to the last man alive before the horn is blown - were all given the exact same emotions/feelings. Nothing has really changed.

We are not different to humans who were alive ten thousand years ago, ok?

We are still the same species, with the same ideas about life, justice, equity, etc etc etc.

What has changed though, is how we interpret these feelings, thoughts, and emotions in this - the modern age.

Today, we are sold inversions of truthful ideas in the media, TV, magazines, web etc... inversions such as "you only live once [YOLO]" so "you can do what you like".... these are dangerous ideas.

We do not only live once.

We were souls wiped off the back of Adam in Heaven and we took an oath to Allah that we say Laa Ilaha Ila Allah... then we were born in this world, then we will die and awake in the grave, then we will be raised again on the day of judgement to live out another term according to our judgement.

Where is YOLO now? YOLO is in hell becoming barbeque meat.

When people live between two extremes, they tend to find themselves either going full on 100% total Muslim hard core fanatic, or the total opposite - Brown nose yes man to the suit, and the hedonistic principles that come along with that.

A Muslim rejects both, the extreme and the liberal free for all mindset.

A Muslim who seeks the middle path, is the type of person who takes responsibility for their every thought, action and deed.

NOW - when I use the word "responsiblity" I do not use this lightly.

A middle path is best achieved through knowledge, not ignorance - if we as Muslims neglect learning our Islam and instead find the appeal of eastern mysticism such as meditation - and get caught up in the hype of it because so many non Muslims rant and rave about how cool meditation is, how beneficial it is in calming one down etc etc etc - and haven't even sought to keep five salah on time - does this sound like middle path? nope.

Knowledge kills ignorance.

In Islam, it is well known that those who turn away from the remembrance of Allah will find no peace. You wanted to meditate to find peace - you couldn't even achieve emptying your mind because it is not natural to do so. It is natural to think about things, consider them, work them out... NOT - ignore them, shun them away or ban the thoughts so you can have a "clear mind".... this idea of clear mind is total nonsense.

In the Qur'an, so many times Allah asks us "Do you not think? do you not contemplate? do you not see? do you not consider? do you not realise?" - NOT - empty your mind and forget and don't think, dont consider, dont realise etc - but the opposite. He wants you to take charge, and think and learn - to educate yourself so you can be the light reflecting Islam to those around you... not that empty nonsense which benefits no one which is called meditation.

The only time you will have a truly empty mind is if your brains fall out. Ok? The metaphysical nonsense others talk of in terms of meditation is ALL BS. Trust me - I used to sell that BS back in my twenties, it's all distraction from your impending responsibilities.

I honestly advise the following if you truly seek to find the middle path.

Study Qur'an

Study the Seerah of the Prophet pbuh

Study the serah of the first three khaliphs of Islam,

And READ SLOWLY, deliberately, stopping after each paragraph, and going over in your mind what you just understood.

Reading is calming experience, one that helps us to relax - but it's not mediation - it's education. It actually benefits instead of yielding a "Nothing" - you understand?

With Allah's mercy, one step at a time, you will come closer and closer to the middle path - as long as you try your best to practice that which Islam teaches you.

It's an adventure like no other - Islam is so excellent a choice of life.

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 04:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
And this @Timi Scar is why I am confused and lost. It seems everyone has different opinions about all kinds of things nobody really seems to know what path to follow. All we can do is try to be the best muslim we can and to follow the Quran and Sunnah the best we can.
I do.

So do others,

But those who posted in this thread that they meditate - SURELY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY SPEAK OF LOL. Do not listen to the "yes crew", they will lead you to fire and themselves alongside.

Yoga is haraam.

Exercise and stretching is not.

Scimi
Reply

muslimah_B
06-14-2016, 04:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
And this @Timi Scar is why I am confused and lost. It seems everyone has different opinions about all kinds of things nobody really seems to know what path to follow. All we can do is try to be the best muslim we can and to follow the Quran and Sunnah the best we can.
Yoga = https://islamqa.info/en/101591

Meditation http://islamqa.org/hanafi/askimam/80399
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 04:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
To you meditation might be this. To someone else it´s something very different and then it´s not insanity.
No. I used to teach meditation and a heck of a lot of other nonsense in my twenties - you do not know what you are talking about and are taking jabs in the dark - just so you can be "right".

Calm your nafs.

Scimi
Reply

T L
06-14-2016, 05:03 PM
Iqra!

JazakAllah Khair Akhi Scimi
Reply

'abd al-hakeem
06-14-2016, 05:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by L V

And for @Challenged akhi there's no harm in visualising your thought processes through like as long as they're with the best of intentions for the Sake of pleasing Allah swt. (from what I understand of your question, forgive me if I have not understood it)

~LV
Salaamu allikum

Jazakallahu khair

I have some... challenges - at least compared to what 'social propriety' dictates regarding functional practicality. Alhamdulillah, Allah subhano wa Ta'ala saw fit to counter, said challenges, with some rather wonderful blessings. Some of the veils of "sight", that reside on much of bano Adam, and indeed some of the members of this forum, are intermittently removed and replaced allowing me to "see" some wonderful truths that exist within the world. Truly we are naught but tourists.

I wanted very much to respond to some of the previous posts with the intention of highlighting the fact that your point was largely missed, if not ignored and subsequently disrespected, with absolutely nothing to be said for any form of awareness of Allah subhano wa Ta'ala and His Divinely Perfect Status above ALL creation.

As it turns out, I was beaten to the point. Alhamdulillah - the message sounds much better having come from someone else. Less of a challenge to my after-thought processes, and I dare say that the point may have been taken more seriously. Jazakallah khair for your insight. @Timi Scar - Jazakallah khair for being such a staunch advocate considering what blessed knowledge resides in your mind.

Regarding the visualisation processes; Given the above admission of challenges, and blessings inherently found within my drop of knowledge - both from Allah subhano wa Ta'ala - perhaps its fair to say that I have an appreciation of training the mind to be more and more conscious of our beloved Creator. And if I ever forgot I need only return to IB and witness the blasphemic atmosphere created by some of the members here and I'm suddenly jolted back to reality where I thank Allah subhano wa Ta'ala for my challenges and blessings. Truly I could be in a much, much worse situation regarding accountability of actions, words and choices.

My challenge is that I'm far too easily distracted, and yet I have a rather powerful mind. This being said, I'm significantly deficient in other areas.

So... the reason I asked about visualisation processes was simply to obtain feedback to judge whether or not I should train myself to NOT to entertain them.

Jazakallahu khair.

As always, Allahu alem.
Reply

sister herb
06-14-2016, 05:03 PM
Do you mean that to someone else the meditation can´t never mean something else than to you? I have no idea what are the main technics they teach (who actually?) about meditation. Why at least to teach something so simple? It´s only needed to stay in peace and empty your mind from all nonsense you have got to there during the day like the expiration and then give to your imagination the wings to fly. But maybe now the experts of meditation don´t count it to the real meditation.

And this is an imitation of non-believers? Hmmm...
Reply

muslimah_B
06-14-2016, 05:13 PM
we shouldnt be nitpicking or looking down on someone's lack of knowledge on something you know, they may have not known or not understood or have a different opinion

We all were once at a point of not knowing anything and by the mecry of Allah He granted us all knowledge to share

The harshness towards people is NOT needed it does not help the situation, there is a way to speak to people in a pefectly fine polite manner whilst giving direct truths without the arragont tone and insulting the persons lack of knowledge or understanding

How you deliver the message is as important as the message itself

This is ramadan and we should be reflecting on ourselves including our character which is just as important
We hear so much about being humble and patient in Quran and hadeeths but no-one wants to do it and are quick to be harsh and have a judgemental mentality
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 05:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
Do you mean that to someone else the meditation can´t never mean something else than to you?
Please rephrase, this question is not making sense to me. But i'll take a shot anyway.

Meditation is simply the act of disconnecting from your reality - it is not a good thing and not taught in Islam - in fact, it is quite the opposite in Islam because Islam teaches us to be aware of our thoughts, and to train the mind to be stronger in will so we can adhere to the principles taught in Islam - it can be argued that when a Muslim makes salaah, they are meditation but this is wrong - we are woshipping with the utmost concentration in order to please our Lord - whereas in meditation we please no one, and end up kinda bored - some people actually enjoy that boredom because it's an escape from their reality... A Muslim does not escape their reality - we face it head on.

Often I read people on forums claiming they are "searching for truth" lol - Muslims "face truth every day" we don't need to search for it, we have it already.

format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
I have no idea what are the main techniques they teach (who actually?) about meditation. Why at least to teach something so simple? It´s only needed to stay in peace and empty your mind from all nonsense you have got to there during the day like the expiration and then give to your imagination the wings to fly. But maybe now the experts of meditation don´t count it to the real meditation.
I've already answered this in this very post.

format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
And this is an imitation of non-believers? Hmmm...
In short - YES. TOTALLY.

Study Al Ghazali and you will find the proof of it. Imam al Ghazali was given the title "The Proof of Islam". Study his works, his life, and see for yourself.

The Prophet pbuh is reported to have said "do not imitate the disbelievers" - do you forget?

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 05:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muslimah_B
we shouldnt be nitpicking or looking down on someone's lack of knowledge on something you know, they may have not known or not understood or have a different opinion

We all were once at a point of not knowing anything and by the mecry of Allah He granted us all knowledge to share

The harshness towards people is NOT needed it does not help the situation, there is a way to speak to people in a pefectly fine polite manner whilst giving direct truths without the arragont tone and insulting the persons lack of knowledge or understanding

How you deliver the message is as important as the message itself

This is ramadan and we should be reflecting on ourselves including our character which is just as important
We hear so much about being humble and patient in Quran and hadeeths but no-one wants to do it and are quick to be harsh and have a judgemental mentality
I don't see anyone being harsh in this thread - myself included... and we all know how harsh I can be, right? :)

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 05:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Challenged
Salaamu allikum
Walakum salaam akhi :)

format_quote Originally Posted by Challenged
Timi Scar - Jazakallah khair for being such a staunch advocate considering what blessed knowledge resides in your mind.
I am an empty cup waiting to be filled akhi. My studies are incomplete and I fear there are not enough years in life to truly master anything, let alone our own "self".

Allahu Akbar, He is the Most Merciful and despite our short comings, HE will judge us with Mercy - how can we not be thankful? :)

Scimi
Reply

'abd al-hakeem
06-14-2016, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
do you forget?

Scimi
...yes

:D

... by design ;)
Reply

sister herb
06-14-2016, 05:32 PM
Meditation is simply the act of disconnecting from your reality
I strongly disagree.

To me meditation is as relaxing your mind. There isn´t nothing as "disconnection". Also I don´t see that such thing is as "imitate the disbelievers". Disbelievers surely might relax their minds too. As they do many other things what all people are doing.

I admit it might be some kind of imitation if there is some kind of mystical ideology behind kind of meditation but if there isn´t? Is it a real meditation then at all or should we find to it some other name?

^o)
Reply

EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 05:34 PM
I think it's about time I finally accept it and I hire someone to teach me about Islam. Not just what is it is not permitted but so I understand Islamic history.

I don't really blame my parents for my lack of understanding but they could have probably tried teaching me with a different attitude and then perhaps I would have been more likely to want to learn. Astaghfirullah learning about Islam was seen as a chore for me when I was younger. I used to do anything to get out of another rant / lecture by my father.
Reply

'abd al-hakeem
06-14-2016, 05:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
Walakum salaam akhi :)
My studies are incomplete and I fear there are not enough years in life to truly master anything, let alone our own "self".

Allahu Akbar, He is the Most Merciful and despite our short comings, HE will judge us with Mercy - how can we not be thankful? :)

Scimi
When's the next study session...? The field trip is amazing but the wildlife is a little troublesome...
Reply

'abd al-hakeem
06-14-2016, 05:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I think it's about time I finally accept it might be time I hire someone to teach me about Islam.
Smartest thing I've seen you post... jazakallah khair. May Allah subhano wa ta'ala guide you, along with the rest of the Ummah. Amin ya Rabb
Reply

muslimah_B
06-14-2016, 05:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
I don't see anyone being harsh in this thread - myself included... and we all know how harsh I can be, right? :)

Scimi

I think its more how someone else perceives it, you may not think your being harsh and your intention is not to, but to the person your directing it at they could take it in a harsh and judgemental way.

Its just something for us all to take heed and think about, how we talk and give advice can determine how a person acts on that advice either absorbing it and acting on it or feeling judged and turns away from it

We are human at the end of the day and all have feelings that can be hurt, some people may be sensitive others not so much, but we should all attempt to humble ourselves when dealing with people especially when giving adive to people on islamic issues they either dont understand or have no knowledge of, every bit of advice we give is like a further invitation to islam :)
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 05:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb
I strongly disagree.

To me meditation is as relaxing your mind. There isn´t nothing as "disconnection". Also I don´t see that such thing is as "imitate the disbelievers". Disbelievers surely might relax their minds too. As they do many other things what all people are doing.

I admit it might be some kind of imitation if there is some kind of mystical ideology behind kind of meditation but if there isn´t? Is it a real meditation then at all or should we find to it some other name?

^o)
You can strongly disagree when Allah asks you if this was an Islamic practice - when it is clearly a bidah you wish to implement - you saying you disagree is a roundabout way of saying Islam is dissatisfying and incomplete.

Good day to you.

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 05:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muslimah_B
I think its more how someone else perceives it, you may not think your being harsh and your intention is not to, but to the person your directing it at they could take it in a harsh and judgemental way.

Its just something for us all to take heed and think about, how we talk and give advice can determine how a person acts on that advice either absorbing it and acting on it or feeling judged and turns away from it

We are human at the end of the day and all have feelings that can be hurt, some people may be sensitive others not so much, but we should all attempt to humble ourselves when dealing with people especially when giving adive to people on islamic issues they either dont understand or have no knowledge of, every bit of advice we give is like a further invitation to islam :)
I'm not here to discuss my methods, I'm here to discuss meditation - now if you cannot stay on topic, then post in one you can.

Is this harsh? or is this on point? :D

Scimi
Reply

T L
06-14-2016, 05:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Challenged
Salaamu allikum

Jazakallahu khair

I have some... challenges - at least compared to what 'social propriety' dictates regarding functional practicality. Alhamdulillah, Allah subhano wa Ta'ala saw fit to counter, said challenges, with some rather wonderful blessings. Some of the veils of "sight", that reside on much of bano Adam, and indeed some of the members of this forum, are intermittently removed and replaced allowing me to "see" some wonderful truths that exist within the world. Truly we are naught but tourists.

I wanted very much to respond to some of the previous posts with the intention of highlighting the fact that your point was largely missed, if not ignored and subsequently disrespected, with absolutely nothing to be said for any form of awareness of Allah subhano wa Ta'ala and His Divinely Perfect Status above ALL creation.

As it turns out, I was beaten to the point. Alhamdulillah - the message sounds much better having come from someone else. Less of a challenge to my after-thought processes, and I dare say that the point may have been taken more seriously. Jazakallah khair for your insight.

Regarding the visualisation processes; Given the above admission of challenges, and blessings inherently found within my drop of knowledge - both from Allah subhano wa Ta'ala - perhaps its fair to say that I have an appreciation of training the mind to be more and more conscious of our beloved Creator. And if I ever forgot I need only return to IB and witness the blasphemic atmosphere created by some of the members here and I'm suddenly jolted back to reality where I thank Allah subhano wa Ta'ala for my challenges and blessings. Truly I could be in a much, much worse situation regarding accountability of actions, words and choices.

My challenge is that I'm far too easily distracted, and yet I have a rather powerful mind. This being said, I'm significantly deficient in other areas.

So... the reason I asked about visualisation processes was simply to obtain feedback to judge whether or not I should train myself to NOT to entertain them.

Jazakallahu khair.

As always, Allahu alem.
Waalaikum Assalaam and Wa iyyakum Akhi

I am very pleased to have read your post which you have taken your time to reply with, and such beautiful words! JazakAllah Khair akhi I truly appreciate them. Alhamdulillah that God has blessed you with understanding to be able to comprehend what I have said. Sometimes words just go wasted on those that do not reflect and one can lose the absolute will to carry on trying. I deeply appreciate the support, May Allah swt reward you, Ameen.

Indeed we are merely travellers in this world, reflecting back at each other our gains and losses, to realise our state of being set by the Divine, to appreciate our countless blessings, the pure miracle of Life and the nature of Time, and to further prepare ourselves for what is to come. He says Be! And It IS. Allahu Akbar!

Such are your challenges and trials akhi, but know you have the capability of understanding the right way, the correct way that only pleases Him, in light of Divine Knowledge, search for it, ask for guidance and don't stop, because this path is like walking a tight rope. SubhanAllah, human beings will eventually let us down but His Rope is Eternal.

Abi Amama (ra) narrates that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: Beware of Momin’s Firasah because he sees with the Nur of Allah.

May Allah swt keep us all steadfast on His Path, Ameen.

Assalaamuaalaikum :)

~LV
Reply

EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 05:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muslimah_B
I think its more how someone else perceives it, you may not think your being harsh and your intention is not to, but to the person your directing it at they could take it in a harsh and judgemental way.

Its just something for us all to take heed and think about, how we talk and give advice can determine how a person acts on that advice either absorbing it and acting on it or feeling judged and turns away from it

We are human at the end of the day and all have feelings that can be hurt, some people may be sensitive others not so much, but we should all attempt to humble ourselves when dealing with people especially when giving adive to people on islamic issues they either dont understand or have no knowledge of, every bit of advice we give is like a further invitation to islam :)
Some people think the soft delicate approach is weak and passive. It's just the opposite for me, when people shout at me and try to force knowledge onto me I get angry and rebel against them. They can be firm in their words and strict in their manner but insulting people is just going to make that person dislike you and rebel against what you say.

I get called stupid and weak by my older sister all the time, I don't need to be told again by strangers lol.
Reply

'abd al-hakeem
06-14-2016, 05:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
I don't see anyone being harsh in this thread - myself included... and we all know how harsh I can be, right? :)

Scimi
...you remind me of marshmallows...
Reply

muslimah_B
06-14-2016, 05:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
I'm not here to discuss my methods, I'm here to discuss meditation - now if you cannot stay on topic, then post in one you can.

Is this harsh? or is this on point? :D

Scimi
I think you completely dodged my point by trying to ignore mine and bring the "actual topic" to issue when i had a valid point about the way the information/knowledge is passed on to people, hence im completely on topic minus the actuall mention of meditation

Case closed :)
Reply

T L
06-14-2016, 05:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Challenged
...you remind me of marshmallows...
That's because he secretly is a marshmallow. He will not deny this.
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 05:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
I think it's about time I finally accept it and I hire someone to teach me about Islam. Not just what is it is not permitted but so I understand Islamic history.

I don't really blame my parents for my lack of understanding but they could have probably tried teaching me with a different attitude and then perhaps I would have been more likely to want to learn. Astaghfirullah learning about Islam was seen as a chore for me when I was younger. I used to do anything to get out of another rant / lecture by my father.
My parents are immigrants to the UK, and they had to adjust to a new language, new life and new everything - whilst trying to keep the basics of Islam intact - and they have - they put me thru madrassa and this is their gift to me - I wanted to play footie in after school games against other schools but they stopped me so I could get an islamic education - which i may add, only involved the reading and writing of Arabic and recitation and how to make salah etc - nothing else.

I am guessing it was the same for you - we cannot blame our parents - they simply did the best they could with what they had available - lets not forget, my parents came to this country as young teenagers who had most likely the very same education in Islam as I did in my youth. How can I blame then if they know no better - right? I can atleast appreciate that what they did know, they imparted to me, and what they couldn't teach, they let others teach me instead.

Our parents only have our best interests at heart.

With regard to you wanting to study under a teacher - this is always a good idea. Our teachers are our second parents, they impart the gift of knowledge, and much more besides.

I like to read, read, read and read... over the years I've spent time with ulema on occasion and benefitted much - see, there are still many Islamic books that have not been translated into English, and the knowledge of which remains strictly with those who have studied the texts, and those they impart that knowledge to.

Some of the mind blows I have been shown are so deep, that to attempt to write them for others to read, show me exactly how incapable i am of relaying the exact intent in English - a languages which I find severely limited in scope.

That is not to say that all English language translations of older works are bad - not at all - I only speak of my own inability to relay information in the English language with any justice to the original text. Especially when I do not even have THAT original text. :)

Scimi
Reply

Arfa
06-14-2016, 05:51 PM
Any practice that is associated with un islamic cultures is not promoted in islam.Therefore we shouldn't be going to stuff that's doubtful:exhausted....On the contrary adopting practice of exercise is good.That goes for meditation Muraqba as well as long as it is used for calming mind and sharpening your intellect...One should focus on positive aspects of a practice instead of criticising or :pundermining others faults.May Allah guide us in holy month of a Ramadan
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Scimitar
06-14-2016, 05:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by L V
That's because he secretly is a marshmallow. He will not deny this.



I do not deny my marshmallownness

I-smart-i-c :D
Reply

Arfa
06-14-2016, 05:59 PM
Any practice that is associated with un islamic cultures is not promoted in islam.Therefore we shouldn't be going to stuff that's doubtful:exhausted....On the contrary adopting practice of exercise is good.That goes for meditation Muraqba as well as long as it is used for calming mind and sharpening your intellect...One should focus on positive aspects of a practice instead of criticising or :pundermining others faults.May Allah guide us in holy month of a Ramadan
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Scimitar
06-14-2016, 06:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muslimah_B
I think you completely dodged my point by trying to ignore mine and bring the "actual topic" to issue when i had a valid point about the way the information/knowledge is passed on to people, hence im completely on topic minus the actuall mention of meditation

Case closed :)
You do not know anything about the methods scholars use to teach students.

I tell you a story Oh green ears.

Once there was a mureed (student) of a shaikh, who had excelled in all his studies, so the shaikh recognised that it was time to find the mureed another teacher.

So off went Shaikh and mureed to the market where talk was heard that such and such a scholar was lecturing in such and such a masjid. So they went to check out this scholar as a potential candidate for his students new teacher.

When they reached the masjid, the talk had already started and the shaikh and his student entered late - they stood at the back and didn't sit down.

The scholar who was lecturing noticed the two standing at the back and asked them "are you here for the lecture?"

they replied in the affirmative.

The scholar then asked "will you not take a seat with the others?"

the Shaikh replied "not yet, we want to know if it is true what they say about you"

"What do they say about me?"

"they say you are not a real scholar and that you lead Muslims astray and off the path"

to which the scholar got up from his chair and started to shout "How dare you, get out from here, I will not have you tarnish my reputation in front of my students - who sent you? are you from such and such a group? - GET THEM OUT"

The shaikh and his student left before they got lynched.

Outside the student asked his shaikh - "why did you do that? that was sooo wrong dear teacher, you hurt his feelings and dishonoured him in front of his students"

The shaikh replied with "stay quiet - you do not know my methods."

they went back to the market - and there they heard more talk of another scholar who was giving a lecture in another masjid. So off went the shaikh and his student to this masjid.

When they reached, the lecture had already started, so they stood at the back and the scholar who was lecturing asked "Are you here for the talk?"

The shaikh replied "yes."

"why don't you sit down and make yourselves comfortable?" asked the scholar.

To which the shaikh replied "we want to know if it is true what they say about you"

"what do they say about me and who are they?" asked the scholar

"They say you are not a real scholar and that you lead your students astray" replied the shaikh.

The scholar immediately became upset and fell to the floor facing kaaba - in sujood asking Allah for forgiveness, his crying was heard audibly by all - he feared he had misled his students simply because someone had informed him of hearsay - this is how seriously the scholar took the accusation to heart.

The shaikh and the student left.

Outside the student asked his shaikh "why shaikh did you do this again? I do not understand?"

the shaikh replied "he is your new teacher - he has the fear of Allah in his heart."

What do you know of my methods? Nothing. I am not even a teacher - just some blundering fool trying to understand everything, but even I know what method is. While you do not.

Am I harsh?

Scimi
Reply

'abd al-hakeem
06-14-2016, 06:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
see, there are still many Islamic books that have not been translated into English, and the knowledge of which remains strictly with those who have studied the texts, and those they impart that knowledge to.

Some of the mind blows I have been shown are so deep, that to attempt to write them for others to read, show me exactly how incapable i am of relaying the exact intent in English - a languages which I find severely limited in scope.
:O:uuh::popcorn:

...i'm listening - intently.

*note to self; must find Foos-ha teacher...
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 06:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Challenged

*note to self; must find Foos-ha teacher...
while the meditators do the wooh sa instead :D

Scimi
Reply

youngen
06-14-2016, 06:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by EgyptPrincess
As-salaam alaikum,

I just had a super weird experience... I was watching some youtube videos and stumbled across Sam Harris. King kufr, or maybe that's Dawkins? Anyway he was talking about spiritual awareness, mediation and I was listening to the way he meditates and thought I'd give it a try, I felt a bit silly doing it but it's so strange.

Essentially you close your eyes and try to observe complete silence, then you just release your mind and let your mind run free. What this means is you just let your mind think about whatever comes into it and you actively try to acknowledge what it is you're thinking about. Then you purposefully try to acknowledge your existence, this may sound obvious as you know you exist but he said really try to feel the "self" inside you and that you really do exist. I think what he was getting at is that we are so busy with out lives that we forget we even "exist". Just take a moment to realise that you are in your chair, which is in a house, which is on a planet, which is in a solar system etc ... which is in the universe. It was pretty strange.

So basically I'm laying there in my chair with earplugs in for complete silence and I just let me mind run completely free and think about whatever comes into my mind and it had some proper trippy freaky thoughts... I thought about cutting butter with a pigeon, javelin throwing a radiator, boxing with socks for gloves and diving into a soap bubble and popping it from the inside out and then teleporting into the ocean. There are so many other random completely illogical thoughts.

I had plenty of normal thoughts as well of course. Then I started to focus on my breathing and the feel of my heart beating in my chest and the weight of my body in the chair, the pressure from my legs on the chair etc and really focusing on it. Alhamdulillah I felt pretty strange, I felt for the first time that I am actually real. It's hard to explain... obviously I know I'm real but I never take the time to actually think about it lol.

I just wondered if anyone else meditates and what are you experiences? I feel a bit guilty copying this kufr but it's not haram to meditate. What a strange experience... :uuh:

Even the realisation that one day inshallah we're actually going to meet the prophet saaw and all the other prophets. We know this but I don't think we really sit down in complete silence and spend 15 minutes actually thinking about it. So awesome.
Hey :) How is Ramadan going? I sent you a pm but I don't know if you received it.

I never imagined you for meditation :)
Reply

muslimah_B
06-14-2016, 06:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
You do not know anything about the methods scholars use to teach students.

I tell you a story Oh green ears.

Once there was a mureed (student) of a shaikh, who had excelled in all his studies, so the shaikh recognised that it was time to find the mureed another teacher.

So off went Shaikh and mureed to the market where talk was heard that such and such a scholar was lecturing in such and such a masjid. So they went to check out this scholar as a potential candidate for his students new teacher.

When they reached the masjid, the talk had already started and the shaikh and his student entered late - they stood at the back and didn't sit down.

The scholar who was lecturing noticed the two standing at the back and asked them "are you here for the lecture?"

they replied in the affirmative.

The scholar then asked "will you not take a seat with the others?"

the Shaikh replied "not yet, we want to know if it is true what they say about you"

"What do they say about me?"

"they say you are not a real scholar and that you lead Muslims astray and off the path"

to which the scholar got up from his chair and started to shout "How dare you, get out from here, I will not have you tarnish my reputation in front of my students - who sent you? are you from such and such a group? - GET THEM OUT"

The shaikh and his student left before they got lynched.

Outside the student asked his shaikh - "why did you do that? that was sooo wrong dear teacher, you hurt his feelings and dishonoured him in front of his students"

The shaikh replied with "stay quiet - you do not know my methods."

they went back to the market - and there they heard more talk of another scholar who was giving a lecture in another masjid. So off went the shaikh and his student to this masjid.

When they reached, the lecture had already started, so they stood at the back and the scholar who was lecturing asked "Are you here for the talk?"

The shaikh replied "yes."

"why don't you sit down and make yourselves comfortable?" asked the scholar.

To which the shaikh replied "we want to know if it is true what they say about you"

"what do they say about me and who are they?" asked the scholar

"They say you are not a real scholar and that you lead your students astray" replied the shaikh.

The scholar immediately became upset and fell to the floor facing kaaba - in sujood asking Allah for forgiveness, his crying was heard audibly by all - he feared he had misled his students simply because someone had informed him of hearsay - this is how seriously the scholar took the accusation to heart.

The shaikh and the student left.

Outside the student asked his shaikh "why shaikh did you do this again? I do not understand?"

the shaikh replied "he is your new teacher - he has the fear of Allah in his heart."

What do you know of my methods? Nothing. I am not even a teacher - just some blundering fool trying to understand everything, but even I know what method is. While you do not.

Am I harsh?

Scimi
You gave one example to back the claims that i said about harshness just because you show me one story that features harshness doesnt mean that all the others followed this approach and this is the correct approach to people.
Being harsh doesnt fit with every single human beings mentality to accept it and act on it, being harsh can make people defensive which is human nature sometimes, hence why it is so important to check our characters and how we come across to people.

Every person takes things differently and there are many hadeeths on treating people properly, how to deal with people, how to speak to them etc etc
Why is that so hard to comprehend and accept instead of constantly trying to prove your point right and mine wrong by sly belittling claims
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 06:35 PM
You seem very butt hurt - like the first scholar who went ape in the story. I guess the moral of such stories really does fly over that head of yours :)

May Allah increase you in righteous thoughts and curb your ego, ameen.

My harshness is a gift to you, but you will not accept a good thing if it hits you point blank in your face. I get it now. Meditation fail on your behalf, no?

You prove my points for me with your actions. I;m the calm one - you the one brewing up a storm... like I said, mediation fail :D

Scimi
Reply

'abd al-hakeem
06-14-2016, 06:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by L V
Waalaikum Assalaam and Wa iyyakum Akhi

I am very pleased to have read your post which you have taken your time to reply with, and such beautiful words! I truly appreciate them. Alhamdulillah that God has blessed you with understanding to be able to comprehend what I have said. Sometimes words just go wasted on those that do not reflect and one can lose the absolute will to carry on trying. I deeply appreciate the support.

~LV
Subhanallahi wa bi hamdihi, subhanallahi l'atheem, wa La hawla wa la quwwata ila billah, wallahu akbaru walhamdulillahi adada ma khalaqa fi-sama. Allahumma solli ali Muhammad, wa ala ali Muhammad adada ma khalaqa fil-ardi, koma soli alaa ali ibrahim, inaka hamidun majeed.

From the bottom of my heart;

May Allah subhano wa Ta'ala grant you something special, that which you need, and that which you didn't know you needed. May He increase your Love for HIM to a level beyond your understanding. May He grant you an abundance of patience and understanding to aid you in times of hardship. May He make you steadfast in the deen, and from those who meet their Creator.

Amin ya Rabbil alamin
Reply

muslimah_B
06-14-2016, 06:51 PM
[QUOTE=Timi Scar;2911108]You seem very butt hurt - like the first scholar who went ape in the story. I guess the moral of such stories really does fly over that head of yours :)

May Allah increase you in righteous thoughts and curb your ego, ameen.

My harshness is a gift to you, but you will not accept a good thing if it hits you point blank in your face. I get it now.


So im buthurt because i call you out on how your coming across to people
Your honestly very full of yourself and can't even see it lol

Im not the one with a ego problem as i can accept other peoples points of views and understand them but i dont dismiss them completely due to me believing my way is the only way that is very arrogant and not even scholars handle issues in this manner.
Thats why learning undersomeone with a solid character is just as important as their knowledge and wisdom on matters.

Your harshness is not a gift harshness is not needed in circumstances of people asking questions or not understating something which you cant even understand because you want to be right

Knowledge is a gift and wisdom is knowing how to give that knowledge in the best of ways

If you cant understand my point then thats on you as iv explained it 3 times now

Lets hope the day doesnt come when people like you go through a situation and need help and guidance and the only help you recieve is in the form of a harsh & judgemental tone
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 06:55 PM
That was a lovely dua bro Challenged. !!!

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 06:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muslimah_B
So im buthurt because i call you out on how your coming across to people
Your honestly very full of yourself and can't even see it lol

Im not the one with a ego problem as i can accept other peoples points of views and understand them but i dont dismiss them completely due to me believing my way is the only way that is very arrogant and not even scholars handle issues in this manner.
Thats why learning undersomeone with a solid character is just as important as their knowledge and wisdom on matters.

Your harshness is not a gift harshness is not needed in circumstances of people asking questions or not understating something which you cant even understand because you want to be right

Knowledge is a gift and wisdom is knowing how to give that knowledge in the best of ways

If you cant understand my point then thats on you as iv explained it 3 times now

Lets hope the day doesnt come when people like you go through a situation and need help and guidance and the only help you recieve is in the form of a harsh & judgemental tone
Yup, you butt hurt allright.

Sheesh even EgpytPrincess has expressed that she appreciates my blunt - no nonsense nature now, because she has the intellectual fortitude to recongise when someone actually means well - while you - quite stupidly lose sight of the gems I throw out here in lieu of the delivery?

You need your head AND heart checked. I even dropped you a story in order to help you understand "method" but you are quite the ignorant, I must say. No offence intended.

This is not my problem - it is wholly yours... guess what? that's another meditation fail - you can't get calm, can't get clarity and can't see the meat of the posts either... Maa Antum?

Scimi
Reply

T L
06-14-2016, 07:01 PM
JazakAllah Khair dear akhi Challenged.. that touched my heart Alhamdulillah. And for you I pray the same, Ameen Allahumma Ameen.

“Islam began as a something strange and it will return to being strange, so blessed are the strangers.”

~LV
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Scimitar
06-14-2016, 07:02 PM
I thought it was "blessed are the meditators" :D ok ok bad joke.

Scimi
Reply

'abd al-hakeem
06-14-2016, 07:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
I thought it was "blessed are the meditators" :D ok ok bad joke.

Scimi

:thumbsup:
Reply

muslimah_B
06-14-2016, 07:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
Yup, you butt hurt allright.

Sheesh even EgpytPrincess has expressed that she appreciates my blunt - no nonsense nature now, because she has the intellectual fortitude to recongise when someone actually means well - while you - quite stupidly lose sight of the gems I throw out here in lieu of the delivery?

You need your head AND heart checked. I even dropped you a story in order to help you understand "method" but you are quite the ignorant, I must say. No offence intended.

This is not my problem - it is wholly yours... guess what? that's another meditation fail - you can't get calm, can't get clarity and can't see the meat of the posts either... Maa Antum?

Scimi

if it helps you sleep at night thinking im "buthurt" by all means lol, Allahu Akbar

I called you out on your approach not the info given and you still dont get it, so you never will, hence your problem not mine anymore

I called you arragant on your approach of my valid point which i was making as to which you still throw out because apparently only your right and your way cannot be challenged which i beg to differ.

I think you need to take a look at my posts as i never said anything along the lines of i do meditation i said i tried it and didn't like it i posted evidences against yoga which was mentioned and some forms of meditation for the benifit of other people if they was unsure of the actuall rulings on these issues, i posted what i did as i didnt like the way certain issues where dealt with, some people dont know yoga or some forms of meditation is haram (everyone is at different stages of their knowledge)

I never once intended for this to turn into a argument/debate or as an belittling match to make someone feel "buthurt" as you so childly put it.
I was merely pointing out something which i didnt agree with and put foward why and gave examples

If you choose to not take my point anboard that is your choice but this is getting pointless now and wasting time so im not replying back on this matter.

Asalam alaykum warahmatullahi wabrakatahu

Enjoy your ramadan :)
Reply

EgyptPrincess
06-14-2016, 07:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by youngen
Hey :) How is Ramadan going? I sent you a pm but I don't know if you received it.

I never imagined you for meditation :)
It's going fine.

Your PM can wait.



format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
Yup, you butt hurt allright.

Sheesh even EgpytPrincess has expressed that she appreciates my blunt - no nonsense nature now, because she has the intellectual fortitude to recongise when someone actually means well - while you - quite stupidly lose sight of the gems I throw out here in lieu of the delivery?

You need your head AND heart checked. I even dropped you a story in order to help you understand "method" but you are quite the ignorant, I must say. No offence intended.

This is not my problem - it is wholly yours... guess what? that's another meditation fail - you can't get calm, can't get clarity and can't see the meat of the posts either... Maa Antum?

Scimi
I also said that advice from people who throw insults and are mean can often be rejected. I do appreciate your strictness and bluntness but be easy on the insults :P
Reply

Scimitar
06-14-2016, 07:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by muslimah_B
-snip-
I did not read. Sorry.

Am I still being harsh?

Nope

I'm just no entertaining stupidity anymore.

Scmi
Reply

*charisma*
06-14-2016, 07:42 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

To keep from continuous arguing, I'm closing the thread for now. It's Ramadan, make du'a for yourselves and each other inshallah.

Just a reminder, we all have different tones in our posts, we each have different personalities, but let's remain respectful because at the end of the day sometimes it's the words that are remembered, but how they were conveyed. The message sometimes doesn't shine through until we understand the person's character well enough to get past that first impression. Others don't care and want the message no matter how blunt it can be. So don't take offense to one another, we just have to decipher the type of person we are interacting with and realize that sometimes that's just their nature.

In the meantime,

:threadclo
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