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cisz
06-19-2016, 07:59 AM
In the Hindu religion there is a God named "Soma" which is believed to be a Plant. There is debate about which Plant Soma was. Some people believe Soma was an Amanita Muscaria Mushroom. Others think Psilocybin Mushrooms. Others think Marijuana.

Soma is also called "Amrita".

This word, "Amrita" is found in other religions. In Buddhism the word for Amrita is "Amata". In the Greek religion, "Ambrosia". In the Sikh religion, "Amrit". The Zoroastrians call Soma "Haoma".

Would anyone know if there is a word derived from Amrita or Soma in the Islamic religion.

The meaning of the word is "Immortality".
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Scimitar
06-19-2016, 03:14 PM
From what I have studied of the Hindu scriptures, The Hindu deity, Shiva smoked all the marijuana so I doubt it's marijuana.

Also, you got Yogi bawa's in the Kush mountains smoking it still - so that puts a big question mark on Shiva smoking all the dope up - also, didn't he smoke it all up so others couldn't? Seems like Shiva failed, no?

Scimi
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Regrets1
06-19-2016, 03:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
From what I have studied of the Hindu scriptures, The Hindu deity, Shiva smoked all the marijuana so I doubt it's marijuana.

Also, you got Yogi bawa's in the Kush mountains smoking it still - so that puts a big question mark on Shiva smoking all the dope up - also, didn't he smoke it all up so others couldn't? Seems like Shiva failed, no?

Scimi
LOLL! Cracked me up:D
Reply

cisz
06-20-2016, 06:46 AM
Some say that the Devas prevented the Asuras from obtaining the Amrita made by the "churning of the ocean of milk". However, your observation is correct in that the Asuras obviously were able to obtain Them.
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Scimitar
06-20-2016, 04:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
Some say that the Devas prevented the Asuras from obtaining the Amrita made by the "churning of the ocean of milk". However, your observation is correct in that the Asuras obviously were able to obtain Them.
This assumes that the substance in question was marijuana.

You mentioned other substances too, and from what little I know - the proto Indo-Iranians also said the same about the Soma (pron. Sauma).

It is worthy to note that the substances are mentioned in two cultures - Indo-Iranian and North Indian. I do not think this substance existed outside of these areas and so any research into territories north of the Himalaya's requires some explanation.

Having said this, there is a well known tradition among Hinduism regarding the "fair headed races of the North". No doubt, these fables were embellishment from the Indo-Aryan peoples (fair headed people who migrated to India through the Indus valley and settled North India in ancient times). If we take this into consideration then there is a possibility that the substance in question is actually something from another land - but this remains a slim opening. The reason being is that India is well known for its Ayurveda and it's understanding of the human body in terms of medicine and good health/wellbeing. In fact no other culture from ancient times had expended such effort into understanding the human body, it's ailments and treatments and India spawned the first culture which actually championed such a cause - quite an achievement as Ayurveda still survives and is practiced today (I, myself take Mukta Vati tablets from the Divya Pharmacy when I feel restless).

There are many such plants in India (a naturally rich and fertile land) which could be Soma. One of which is Aswaghanda, a digestive aid said to increase vitality and strength if taken regularly - this is very important to know since in Indian Ayurveda the belief is that all illnesses of the body stem from the stomach. If the stomach is in good health then the body will follow.

With this understanding we can start to understand the medical logic which Ayurveda follows.

In some Vedic texts, the Soma is known to be a grass type seed - I present Fennel seeds, also a digestive aid... problem with this logic is that there are many such herbs, plants and seeds which are known to aid digestion and strengthen the stomach.

I theorize that the idea of Soma being an unique plant was no longer a consideration once Ayurveda was widely established in India - many such plants, seeds and herbs were now competing with each other and the Soma mentioned in ancient text and so - with the perfection of Ayurveda (blending of plant, seed and herb), such ideas as Soma being a miracle plant eventually faded into obscurity as the science of Ayurveda became more practiced and the results of which, more widely applauded.

Today, the reputation of Ayurveda being a medical alternative has reached far and wide and no corner of the globe is without it. Soma, has left a legacy in Ayurveda which has perfected the traditions of Ayurveda in India.

I hope this helps.

Scimi

EDIT: as an afterthought it did occur to me that Hindu's do not eat meat and have the highest stat of Anemia in the world due to their being very little to no iron in the Hindu diet.

Hence I think another opening for you would be to investigate which plants, seeds and herbs contain iron or other ferrous elements which when ingested - would empower the person with what would seem to them to be "super human strength, and vitality".

Bless,

Scimi
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cisz
06-21-2016, 09:28 AM
Thanks for your reply.

I am convinced that Soma/Amrita was/is Entheogenic Plants.

Soma was known for producing Light when ingested. E.g.,

"1. ENGENDERING the Sun in floods, engendering heaven's lights, green-hued, Robed in the waters and the milk,
2 According to primeval plan this Soma, with his stream,
effused Flows purely on, a God for Gods." --Rg Veda, Book 9, HYMN 42. Soma Pavamana

Soma was called "the Creator of the Gods".

But, my purpose in making this post was to see if there is an equivalent in Islam to Soma/Amrita seeing that the Buddhists, Sikhs, Greeks, and Zoroastrians all have words that were derived from Them.

I would think that the Hebrews did also. Isaiah and Ezekiel both refer to "Ari-el" which I would think refers back to "Ary-an"
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Scimitar
06-21-2016, 09:39 AM
No, the two are mutually exclusive.

With regard to the "Light" verses, these are allegorical and not to be interpreted in any literal sense.

Scimi
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Predator
06-21-2016, 03:28 PM
Cisz ,do you worship idols ?
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OmAbdullah
06-21-2016, 04:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
Thanks for your reply.

I am convinced that Soma/Amrita was/is Entheogenic Plants.

Soma was known for producing Light when ingested. E.g.,

"1. ENGENDERING the Sun in floods, engendering heaven's lights, green-hued, Robed in the waters and the milk,
2 According to primeval plan this Soma, with his stream,
effused Flows purely on, a God for Gods." --Rg Veda, Book 9, HYMN 42. Soma Pavamana

Soma was called "the Creator of the Gods".

But, my purpose in making this post was to see if there is an equivalent in Islam to Soma/Amrita seeing that the Buddhists, Sikhs, Greeks, and Zoroastrians all have words that were derived from Them.

I would think that the Hebrews did also. Isaiah and Ezekiel both refer to "Ari-el" which I would think refers back to "Ary-an"


You are manifestly bringing shirk in your posts and even are trying to give it place in Islam. This is a very wrong attempt. There is no place for shirk (polytheism) in Islam. We believe in absolutely One God Allah and that is the Creator of all. It is better for you to stop such wrong attempts.
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Scimitar
06-21-2016, 05:47 PM
Honestly I don't think that was his intention - he is simply attempting to find this miracle plant which doesn't deliver what it says it does - a wild goose chase which leads him into territories that he would otherwise not entertain.

nbegum he has not mentioned what religion he belongs to nor has he proselytising for any faith - rather he was attempting to find comparatives from other faiths and cultures which may shed light on his search for the soma plant.

Scimi
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cisz
06-22-2016, 07:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
Thanks for your reply.

I am convinced that Soma/Amrita was/is Entheogenic Plants.

Soma was known for producing Light when ingested. E.g.,

"1. ENGENDERING the Sun in floods, engendering heaven's lights, green-hued, Robed in the waters and the milk,
2 According to primeval plan this Soma, with his stream,
effused Flows purely on, a God for Gods." --Rg Veda, Book 9, HYMN 42. Soma Pavamana

Soma was called "the Creator of the Gods".

But, my purpose in making this post was to see if there is an equivalent in Islam to Soma/Amrita seeing that the Buddhists, Sikhs, Greeks, and Zoroastrians all have words that were derived from Them.

I would think that the Hebrews did also. Isaiah and Ezekiel both refer to "Ari-el" which I would think refers back to "Ary-an"
My point is that there are Plants that do produce "the Sun in floods" and "Heaven's Lights" literally.

When the Reality exists, why settle for "figuratively"?
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cisz
06-22-2016, 07:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
No, the two are mutually exclusive.

With regard to the "Light" verses, these are allegorical and not to be interpreted in any literal sense.

Scimi
I had meant to reply to this quote and not quote myself.

I don't see a way to edit my posts.
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cisz
06-22-2016, 08:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
You are manifestly bringing shirk in your posts and even are trying to give it place in Islam. This is a very wrong attempt. There is no place for shirk (polytheism) in Islam. We believe in absolutely One God Allah and that is the Creator of all. It is better for you to stop such wrong attempts.
I hadn't intended to get into what my beliefs are, but since I'm being asked --

I would point out that the Hebrew word for God/Allah is "Elohim", which is plural.

The Bible begins with Genesis which reads:
"In the beginning Elohim created the Heavens and the earth."

That is -- "In the beginning, the Gods created the Heavens and the earth."

Also, in Genesis, after Eve and Adam ate the Fruit of Knowledge, the "Lord God", also called, in Hebrew, "Adonai Elohim" says "Now man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil." This makes it obvious that there was more than one God.

My understanding of "monotheism" and the "one God" is that there is a Unity of Will and Purpose of all the Plants which make up the Body of "Soma".
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Scimitar
06-22-2016, 05:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
I hadn't intended to get into what my beliefs are, but since I'm being asked --

I would point out that the Hebrew word for God/Allah is "Elohim", which is plural.

The Bible begins with Genesis which reads:
"In the beginning Elohim created the Heavens and the earth."

That is -- "In the beginning, the Gods created the Heavens and the earth."

Also, in Genesis, after Eve and Adam ate the Fruit of Knowledge, the "Lord God", also called, in Hebrew, "Adonai Elohim" says "Now man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil." This makes it obvious that there was more than one God.

My understanding of "monotheism" and the "one God" is that there is a Unity of Will and Purpose of all the Plants which make up the Body of "Soma".
Oh boy, you gonna love this: http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ncept-god.html

Scimi
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Scimitar
06-22-2016, 05:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
My point is that there are Plants that do produce "the Sun in floods" and "Heaven's Lights" literally.

When the Reality exists, why settle for "figuratively"?
It was not literal in meaning but allegorical - i'm an Indian btw and studied the Hindu scriptures. I know their contexts, co-texts and application. I think you are entertaining a fantasy.

Scimi
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Insaanah
06-22-2016, 07:07 PM
Welcome to the forum cisz.

format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
In the Hindu religion there is a God named "Soma" which is believed to be a Plant. There is debate about which Plant Soma was. Some people believe Soma was an Amanita Muscaria Mushroom. Others think Psilocybin Mushrooms. Others think Marijuana.

Soma is also called "Amrita".

This word, "Amrita" is found in other religions. In Buddhism the word for Amrita is "Amata". In the Greek religion, "Ambrosia". In the Sikh religion, "Amrit". The Zoroastrians call Soma "Haoma".

Would anyone know if there is a word derived from Amrita or Soma in the Islamic religion.
No, because these concepts are the opposite of Islam. Islam stands out from other religions in its unwaivering knowledge and belief in One God.

In ancient Greek mythology Ambrosia was the food of the so called gods. Allah, our Creator, our Lord, our sustainer, says in the Qur'an:

Say, "Is it other than Allah I should take as a protector, Creator of the heavens and the earth, while it is He who feeds and is not fed?" Say, [O Muhammad], "Indeed, I have been commanded to be the first [among you] who submit [to Allah ] and [was commanded], 'Do not ever be of the polytheists.' " (Qur'an, 6:14)

(emphasis mine)

Anyone or anything that needs food or drink, cannot be God.

Neither a drink, nor a plant, nor a human, nor an animal, is God.

We worship our God, the One and only True God, other than whom there is no God, without any associates in His Exclusive Divinity, the creator of the heavens and the Earth

He alone should be worshipped. He is our Creator, Sustainer, and Lord.

He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, spouses, siblings, parents, cousins, or relatives of any sort.

He is eternal and does not die. He does not depend on anyone/anything yet we all depend on Him. He is free of all want and need.

There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful, Incomparable, the Creator of the Universe.

He did not/does not, become flesh, dwell in human or animal bodies, plants, drinks, anything, nor are there any incarnations of Him. He is not mixed up in His creation in any way.

He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity. There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, nor any intermediaries. And no denying of God's existence either.

There are no sharers, associates, persons or parts whatsoever in His exclusive Divinity. Simply, He is One, in every sense.


I would point out that the Hebrew word for God/Allah is "Elohim", which is plural.
The Arabic word Allah cannot be turned into plural, like the English word god can be gods/goddesses etc. Allah cannot grammatically be plural, or feminine, nor changed in any way. He is One God.

Allah is your only God, your only Lord, your only Creator, your lSustainer, even if you don't currently acknowledge that fact.

I hope this will help you see that there is no place in Islam for plants or drinks or words derived from them that have the above connections/origins/connotations.

I do hope though, that you'll use that as a springboard to look into Islam.

Peace.
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cisz
06-23-2016, 07:48 AM
It was not literal in meaning but allegorical - i'm an Indian btw and studied the Hindu scriptures. I know their contexts, co-texts and application. I think you are entertaining a fantasy.

Scimi
Well then, you must be aware of the Hindu belief that a drop of the Amrita fell on the ground and Marijuana sprang up at the spot. That clearly shows the belief still existing today, that Marijuana was/is Amrita. Also, there is the belief that Shiva created Marijuana from His own body to purify the Elixir (whence, for Marijuana, the epithet Angaja or "body-born".

"Thus, cannabis is used by sages due to association with Elixir and Shiva. Wise drinking of Bhang (Marijuana mixture), according to religious rites, is believed to cleanse sins, unite one with Shiva and avoid the miseries of hell in the future life. They are also believed to have medicinal benefits. In contrast, foolish drinking of Bhang without rites is considered a sin."
-- Indian Hemp Drugs Commission Report - Appendix

This belief that a person becomes One with Shiva and is cleaned of sin through ingesting His Body, (Marijuana), is completely similar to the "Christian" communion - thus showing what the original Body of Christ was.
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Scimitar
06-23-2016, 08:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
Well then, you must be aware of the Hindu belief that a drop of the Amrita fell on the ground and Marijuana sprang up at the spot. That clearly shows the belief still existing today, that Marijuana was/is Amrita. Also, there is the belief that Shiva created Marijuana from His own body to purify the Elixir (whence, for Marijuana, the epithet Angaja or "body-born".

"Thus, cannabis is used by sages due to association with Elixir and Shiva. Wise drinking of Bhang (Marijuana mixture), according to religious rites, is believed to cleanse sins, unite one with Shiva and avoid the miseries of hell in the future life. They are also believed to have medicinal benefits. In contrast, foolish drinking of Bhang without rites is considered a sin."
-- Indian Hemp Drugs Commission Report - Appendix

This belief that a person becomes One with Shiva and is cleaned of sin through ingesting His Body, (Marijuana), is completely similar to the "Christian" communion - thus showing what the original Body of Christ was.
Bro, you're flip flopping now - you said in your first post you was entertaining the idea that it was marijuana, then in a later post that it was not, and now - it is again.

I cannot take you seriously when you are so confuddled.

When you can have a steadier frame of mind, maybe we can talk again,

For now, best.

Scimi
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cisz
06-23-2016, 09:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
Bro, you're flip flopping now - you said in your first post you was entertaining the idea that it was marijuana, then in a later post that it was not, and now - it is again.

I cannot take you seriously when you are so confuddled.

When you can have a steadier frame of mind, maybe we can talk again,

For now, best.

Scimi

I am not "flip flopping". I was talking about current day Hindu belief about Amrita. I am not what most people would consider a "Hindu" -- or, for that matter, any "world" religion. My own personal belief is that Amrita is all Entheogens -- including Marijuana, Psilocybin, Peyote, etc.
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cisz
06-23-2016, 09:45 AM
[...]
In fact, I hve looked extensively into Islam and have read the Quran and some of the Hadiths.

I assume that you are not trying to say that Allah isn't the same God as the God of Abraham. However, Abraham's God was called "Elohim" and is plural.
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cisz
06-23-2016, 09:48 AM
The previous post was in reply to Insaanah.
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Scimitar
06-23-2016, 01:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
[...]
In fact, I hve looked extensively into Islam and have read the Quran and some of the Hadiths.

I assume that you are not trying to say that Allah isn't the same God as the God of Abraham. However, Abraham's God was called "Elohim" and is plural.
format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
The Arabic word Allah cannot be turned into plural, like the English word god can be gods/goddesses etc. Allah cannot grammatically be plural, or feminine, nor changed in any way. He is One God.
Boy oh boy oh boy,

Insaanah, it is the plural of respect -the royal plural, not the mathematical one.

I give you an example - how many times does Allah refer to Himself as "We" in the Qur'an, for example - "And We did not send this Qur'an except as a mercy for the worlds"

To elaborate further (and this is for Cisz benefit also since he's so hung up on the word Eloh-im0 [the im, denoting the plural of respect also] check it out:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ncept-god.html

See Cisz, the YHWH/YHVH is the Great and Holy Name not to be uttered by Jews - and over time they could't even if they tried because they don't know the Great Name of God - only we Muslims do - and it's all in that thread in the first page... you seeking the truth? You owe it to yourself to give this thread a GOOD consideration.

Scimi
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Serinity
06-23-2016, 05:18 PM
There is no place for shirk in Islam, at all. Allah :swt: is One, in every sense.
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Scimitar
06-23-2016, 05:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
There is no place for shirk in Islam, at all. Allah :swt: is One, in every sense.
Go look up the Royal Plural... Allah is one. If you actually read Qur'an you will find that Allah refers to HIMSELF as WE - many MANY MANY times over and over again - it is the royal plural. Not the plural of numbers.

If you click this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ncept-god.html which I posted research in - you will find out why the Royal Plural is a given in scripture.

I'm surprised the scholars and student of knowledge don't chime in :D isn't that what they are here for? Why am I doing their job?

Scimi
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Serinity
06-23-2016, 05:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
Go look up the Royal Plural... Allah is one. If you actually read Qur'an you will find that Allah refers to HIMSELF as WE - many MANY MANY times over and over again - it is the royal plural. Not the plural of numbers.

If you click this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ncept-god.html which I posted research in - you will find out why the Royal Plural is a given in scripture.

I'm surprised the scholars and student of knowledge don't chime in :D isn't that what they are here for? Why am I doing their job?

Scimi
may Allah :swt: reward you abundantly for taking the job of scholars. Ameen.

I'm pretty sure Ahmad Deedat already answered this plural of respect, thing.

I will give that thread a read (with breaks of course)
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Insaanah
06-24-2016, 05:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
[...]
In fact, I hve looked extensively into Islam and have read the Quran and some of the Hadiths.

I assume that you are not trying to say that Allah isn't the same God as the God of Abraham. However, Abraham's God was called "Elohim" and is plural.
Allah is the God of Abraham (peace be on him). By whatever name you call Him, He is the same ONE God.

"Say, "Call upon Allah or call upon the Most Merciful. Whichever [name] you call - to Him belong the best names." [...]." (Qur'an 17:110, part)

Abraham (peace be on him) worshipped Allah alone, was unswervingly steadfast and firm on this, and told his people to do the same, and he wasn't among the polytheists:

And Abraham instructed his sons [to do the same] and [so did] Jacob, [saying], "O my sons, indeed Allah has chosen for you this religion, so do not die except while you are Muslims."
Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac - one God. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." (2:132-133)

They say, "Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided." Say, "Rather, [we follow] the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists." (2:135)

Have you not considered the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord [merely] because Allah had given him kingship? When Abraham said, "My Lord is the one who gives life and causes death," he said, "I give life and cause death." Abraham said, "Indeed, Allah brings up the sun from the east, so bring it up from the west." So the disbeliever was overwhelmed [by astonishment], and Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people. (2:258)

He [Abraham] said, "Then do you worship instead of Allah that which cannot benefit you at all or harm you? (21:66)

And [We sent] Abraham, when he said to his people, "Worship Allah and fear Him. That is best for you, if you should know." (29:16)

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists. (3:67)

Say, " Allah has told the truth. So follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of the polytheists." (3:95)

Indeed, Abraham was a [comprehensive] leader, devoutly obedient to Allah , inclining toward truth, and he was not of those who associate others with Allah . (16:120)

Then We revealed to you, [O Muhammad], to follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of those who associate with Allah . (16:123)

And [mention, O Muhammad], when We designated for Abraham the site of the House, [saying], "Do not associate anything with Me and purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who stand [in prayer] and those who bow and prostrate. (22:26)

Allah sometimes uses the royal we, and sometimes Me/I. Me/I is tends to be used in matters of obedience or worship, as in the above 22:26 (do not associate anything in worship with Me/My divinity), whereas earlier in the same verse, Allah says, We designated the site of the house, which is something that Allah did (pointing out the location of a certain thing).

As a worldly example, in certain royal documents the queen refers to herself as we, eg "we will rule...", and in others, as I. Yet England has one monarch at any one time.

Anyone who reads the Qur'an comes away clearly with the message that only One ONE God is to be worshipped, and that all the Prophets, peace be on them (including Abraham) were sent to people to teach them this.

Peace.
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cisz
06-27-2016, 09:55 AM
So, do you think that God was talking to himself when he said "Now man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil"?

If he was speaking from the point of view that he was the only God, he would have said, "Now man has become like me." Saying "one of us" has to imply that there is more than one. It could not have been the "royal we".

But, in any case, to me, the "royal we" implies a kind of arrogance that is found is worldly monarchs and would certainly not be used by the God of the oppressed.

(Note: not being familiar with this forum, I didn't see that there was a 2nd page until today. So I just now saw these new posts.)
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cisz
06-27-2016, 10:07 AM
In other words, if God want to use the "royal we" in this sentence, he would have said, "Now man has become like us". To say "one of us" has to imply that there is more than one.
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T L
06-27-2016, 12:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
So, do you think that God was talking to himself when he said "Now man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil"?

If he was speaking from the point of view that he was the only God, he would have said, "Now man has become like me." Saying "one of us" has to imply that there is more than one. It could not have been the "royal we".

But, in any case, to me, the "royal we" implies a kind of arrogance that is found is worldly monarchs and would certainly not be used by the God of the oppressed.

(Note: not being familiar with this forum, I didn't see that there was a 2nd page until today. So I just now saw these new posts.)

What kindof planet are you speaking from?
God doesn't deserve to be addressed in such a way because of your flawed human definition of the royal "we" which you find to be arrogant? THE Creator of the Universe? THE Lord of the Worlds that put your braincells together?
Seriously?

HE is ABOVE ALL THINGS. Power only lies with HIM. He OWNS every essence and nuance of the WE, HE created the attributions that humans have adopted so heedlessly to which frankly you can't seem to grasp.

Tell me, when a king addresses his people, how does he address them? Using 'I', or 'we'?

Do your research please.
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sister herb
06-27-2016, 02:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
In other words, if God want to use the "royal we" in this sentence, he would have said, "Now man has become like us". To say "one of us" has to imply that there is more than one.
Do you now try to blame that in Islam has more than one God?
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AabiruSabeel
06-27-2016, 05:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
So, do you think that God was talking to himself when he said "Now man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil"?
Where did you get that from? It is blasphemous. You should not attribute anything to Allah :swt:


Exalted is He and high above what they say by great sublimity. [17:43]
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cisz
06-28-2016, 08:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by L V
Tell me, when a king addresses his people, how does he address them? Using 'I', or 'we'?

Do your research please.
A flawed, arrogant human king uses the word "we" to refer to himself (or herself).

God would not use a word to refer to Themselves that is so strongly associated with evil, oppressive, arrogant human monarchs.
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cisz
06-28-2016, 08:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ibn-Adam
Where did you get that from? It is blasphemous. You should not attribute anything to Allah
:ermm:It is from Genesis, 3,22.

ויאמר יהוה אלהים הן האדם היה כאחד ממנו לדעת טוב ורע ועתה פן-ישלח ידו ולקח גם מעץ החיים ואכל וחי לעלם׃

Translit va.yo.mer a.do.nai e.lo.him hen ha.a.dam ha.ya ke.a.khad mi.me.nu la.da.at tov va.ra ve.a.ta pen-yish.lakh ya.do ve.la.kakh gam me.ets ha.kha.yim ve.a.khal va.khai le.o.lam:
English And the LORD God said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.'
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OmAbdullah
06-28-2016, 12:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
I hadn't intended to get into what my beliefs are, but since I'm being asked --

I would point out that the Hebrew word for God/Allah is "Elohim", which is plural.

The Bible begins with Genesis which reads:
"In the beginning Elohim created the Heavens and the earth."

That is -- "In the beginning, the Gods created the Heavens and the earth."

Also, in Genesis, after Eve and Adam ate the Fruit of Knowledge, the "Lord God", also called, in Hebrew, "Adonai Elohim" says "Now man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil." This makes it obvious that there was more than one God.

My understanding of "monotheism" and the "one God" is that there is a Unity of Will and Purpose of all the Plants which make up the Body of "Soma".



Allah has used plural pronoun for HIMSELF in the Holy Quraan. This doesn't mean that there are many gods. This is only for the sake of Honor and Respect. It is like a king says' " we want it to be done this way". This sentence only means that the king used plural pronoun for himself for his respect. But it doesn't mean that he is made of two or more kings. I don't understand why are simple words given the complicated and wrong meaning. This is only from Satan, our deadly enemy!!!


No tree is a miracle tree. This is a step to stray people and guide them to polytheism. I can give example from the history of Islam.


There was a date palm (tree) near which the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam used to stand for giving sermon. Then a high place was made for Him to stand upon for giving sermon. When the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam stood upon that place, the palm-tree started weeping /crying loudly and every one could hear it crying. It cried because the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam left it and didn't stand near it. (This is a proof of the modern science that plants are living things. It was proved at the time of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. Also I can see that a tree had more love for Allah's Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam than many of today's so-called Muslims.) The tree was crying until Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam came down near it and touched it with love. Then it became quiet. Later people had respect for that tree. Umar rAa cut it down because of the danger that later, people due to ignorance may start shirk with that tree.


Thus remember that Satan is our bad enemy and such statement as your post are a help to Satan to stray mankind to the everlasting Hell Fire.

Every plant and every thing is created by Allah and Allah has given them great qualities. All praises are due only for Allah who created excellent things with excellent qualities. But nothing can harm us or benefit us without the Will and Command of Allah. So we must pray only to Allah because the tree or anything else has no power of its own.


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AabiruSabeel
06-28-2016, 02:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
:ermm:It is from Genesis, 3,22.
We follow the Qur'an. You are on IslamicBoard!

format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
A flawed, arrogant human king uses the word "we" to refer to himself (or herself).

God would not use a word to refer to Themselves that is so strongly associated with evil, oppressive, arrogant human monarchs.
Your argument is flawed. "I" is the arrogant letter, not "we".
Reply

Scimitar
06-28-2016, 07:43 PM
Dear Cisz :D

While you study the sanskrit of the bhagavid geeta and the other vedic texts - go check how may instances the BrahamPratatama refers to tiself as WE.

What are you? unilingual and moronic?

Even the very scriptures you cite talk of the ROYAL WE and not the PLURAL OF NUMBERS - EVEN THOUGH THE PLURAL OF NUMBERS WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE TO APPLY TO POLYTHEISM :d YET WE FIND ITS THE ROYAL PLURAL... Want examples? GO READ and stop playing stupid.

As for Eloh-im - the IM at the end denote a suffix of respect for a venerated personality, one honoured or to the God.

You didn't even read my thread did you? Here, for your moronic brain to digest.

format_quote Originally Posted by I, Myself
The suffix "IM" of the word "ELOHIM" is a plural of respect in Hebrew.

(Remember that in Arabic and Hebrew there are two types of plurals. One of numbers and the other of honour (the Royal Plural) as in Royal proclamations. Since the plural of honour is uncommon in the language of the European, he has confused these plurals to connote a plurality in the "godhead," hence his justification for his Doctrine of the Holy Trinity - the Father, Son and Holy Ghost).

Hence ELOHIM = ELOH + IM. Now I want you to perform an exercise. Do you see the words: YA-HUWA ELOH-IM? Place your left hand index finger on the first two letters "YA" meaning oh! and the other index finger on the "IM" a plural of respect. What you now have remaining in Huwa Eloh or Huwa Elah.

El in Hebrew means god, and Elah or Eloh also stands for the same name - god. Therefore, "Huwa el Elah" or HUWA 'L LAH, which is identical to the Quranic expression -Huwal Lah (meaning: HE IS ALLAH) of the verse QUL HUWAL LAH HU AHUD

QUL - SAY:

HUWAL LAH - HE IS ALLAH

HU AHAD - HE IS ONE (the one and only)
(Qur'an 112:1)

(Mind Blowing Stuff)

The above exercise proves that El, Elah and Elohim are not three distinctly different words. They all represent the single Arabic word Allah. This is not my wishful thinking. Please see below. It is a photostatic reproduction of a page from the English Bible, edited by Rev. C. I. Scofield,D.D., with his Bible Commentary· This Doctor of Divinity is well respected among the Bible Scholars of the Christian world. He is backed in his "NEW AND IMPROVED EDITION" of this translation by a galaxy of eight other D.D.'s:



Rev. Henry G. Weston, D.D., LL.D., President Crozer Theological jeminary.
Rev. W. G. Moorehead, D.D., President Xenia (U.I,) Theological Seminary.
Rev. lames M. Gray, D.D., President Moody Bible Institute.
Rev. Elmore Harris, D.D., President Toronto Bible Institute.
Rev. William !. Erdman, D.D., Author "The Gospel of John," etc.
Rev. Arthur T. Pierson, D.D., Author, Editor, Teacher, etc.
Rev. William L. Pettingill, D.D., Author, Editor, Teacher.
Arno C. Gaebelein, Author "Harmoney of Prophetic Word," etc.

I have not listed the above luminaries to awe you. They have been unanimous in supporting Rev. Scofield in his "New and Improved" commentary.

Please note that in their comment No. 1 below left, they concur that - "Elohim, (sometimes El or Elah meaning God)" and alternatively spelled "Alah" (line three, third word). All the eight D.D.'s above could not have been blind in dittoing the spelling "Alah" for God. How far were they from the Arabic word spelled - ALLAH - in English, I ask you dear reader? This is Allah's handiwork, but the Devil (I must give him a capital "D," he deserves it) was not slow in making a quick come-back through his agents. You will find these references in the recent reproduction of "The New Scofield Reference Bible." You will not be able to lay your hands anymore on the Bible with "Alah" in it. The Devil has seen to that.

QUICK ABROGATION

"Now You See It" - "Now You Don't" is an old, old gimmick in the West. Compare the above and see how cleverly, how deftly the new band of missionaries expunged the word "Alah" from the "Authorised King James Version" of the Scofield translation of the Bible.

__________

Hebrew Aramaic and Arabic are sister languages, so it comes as no surprise that when Moses (pbuh) was in Exile, he married Jethroes daughter - Jethroe was an Arab - and Moses was able to communicate with the Arabs simply because their languages shared the same roots - they were Semitic.
Cisz, next time I link you a thread - do yourself a favour to avoid looking like the village idiot - click the link and read it, until it makes sense - don't be the village idiot.

Here, knowck yourself out - http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ncept-god.html
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cisz
06-29-2016, 07:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ibn-Adam
We follow the Qur'an. You are on IslamicBoard!
The "Christians" follow the "New Testament" but since Christ believed in Moses, Abraham, King David, etc., the "Christians" also believe in Them and know the "Old Testament".

Similarly, Muhammad believed in those same people. So how would someone not know what the "God" of the Garden of Eden said?
Your argument is flawed. "I" is the arrogant letter, not "we".
The question is not if God called Themselves "I" -- but rather that when They called Themselves "We", if it was the "royal" we or a "We" in union with all of the Spirits of God, such as from the "Burning Bush", the Manna, the Presence Bread, the Anointing Oil, the Tree of Knowledge, the "Crystal which is in a glass, which would almost shine forth of Themselves though no fire touched Them" (from the Quran), and all of the Saints who worship Them.
Reply

cisz
06-29-2016, 07:23 AM
Your insults mean nothing to me other than you think to prove yourself right by acting like I'm stupid, rather than addressing the facts.

You have not responded to the fact that the "God" of the Garden of Eden said "Now man has become as one of us", which can not be interpreted any other way than that there is more than one God.

As for your insults, this is my answer to you:
"6 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom." -- Quran, II, 6,7
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cisz
06-29-2016, 08:13 AM
And no - I didn't read your link. Why would I read a long winded explanation of something I know is wrong?

If you have something to say -- say it yourself.
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cisz
06-29-2016, 09:04 AM
And, of course, there is Psalm 82, which Christ quoted:

5“The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.

They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

6I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
7But you will die like mere mortals;

you will fall like every other ruler.”
Reply

AabiruSabeel
06-29-2016, 05:53 PM
Seems like you have not read the Qur'an at all. Your argument has no basis. Allah :swt: says in the Qur'an:

[Qur'an: 112]
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.


If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both! but glory to Allah, the Lord of the Throne: (High is He) above what they attribute to Him! [21:22]

And your Allah is One Allah: There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [2:163]

That is Allah, your Lord! there is no god but He, the Creator of all things: then worship ye Him: and He hath power to dispose of all affairs. [6:102]

Follow what thou art taught by inspiration from thy Lord: there is no god but He: and turn aside from those who join gods with Allah. [6:106]

Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided." [7:158]

But if they turn away, Say: "Allah sufficeth me: there is no god but He: On Him is my trust,- He the Lord of the Throne (of Glory) Supreme!" [9:129]

And if they do not respond to you - then know that the Qur'an was revealed with the knowledge of Allah and that there is no deity except Him. Then, would you [not] be Muslims? [11:14]



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Scimitar
06-29-2016, 08:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
And no - I didn't read your link. Why would I read a long winded explanation of something I know is wrong?

If you have something to say -- say it yourself.
I did write it myself, lol - I linked you to a thread I put up here - why be so ignorant?

Anyway, you've not addressed the post I made here where I, for your benefit, copied my own text from that thread into this one...

... and you didn't even address it.

This shows me that you are inept and hold onto your bias like a toddler holds his rattle. You have demonstrated to us all that you are not an honest seeker.

"a sign of intelligence is being able to entertain an idea without necessarily having to adopt it" - Aristotle. You did not do that - proving you are actually quite the buffoon,

enjoy your delusions, fella :)

And have a nice day, ignorance is bliss I hear.

Scimi
Reply

cisz
06-30-2016, 07:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ibn-Adam
Seems like you have not read the Qur'an at all. Your argument has no basis. Allah :swt: says in the Qur'an:

[Qur'an: 112]
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.


If there were, in the heavens and the earth, other gods besides Allah, there would have been confusion in both! but glory to Allah, the Lord of the Throne: (High is He) above what they attribute to Him! [21:22]

And your Allah is One Allah: There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. [2:163]

That is Allah, your Lord! there is no god but He, the Creator of all things: then worship ye Him: and He hath power to dispose of all affairs. [6:102]

Follow what thou art taught by inspiration from thy Lord: there is no god but He: and turn aside from those who join gods with Allah. [6:106]

Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided." [7:158]

But if they turn away, Say: "Allah sufficeth me: there is no god but He: On Him is my trust,- He the Lord of the Throne (of Glory) Supreme!" [9:129]

And if they do not respond to you - then know that the Qur'an was revealed with the knowledge of Allah and that there is no deity except Him. Then, would you [not] be Muslims? [11:14]
You have to Know who God is before you can know what They mean by "there is no God besides Them."

I completely agree with the quotes you gave from the Quran. I know the Real God.

Just as there were many Saints who made up Christ's Body, there are many parts of God's Body. The parts of ?Christ's Body were separate people, but they were One in Christ.

So the many parts of God's (Allah's) Body are separate, but are One in God/Allah.

There is no other God/Creator than Them.
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cisz
06-30-2016, 07:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Timi Scar
I did write it myself, lol - I linked you to a thread I put up here - why be so ignorant?
Suggestion: don't post a link - don't copy text and paste it.

Write something short and to the point and I will read it.
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AabiruSabeel
06-30-2016, 01:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cisz
You have to Know who God is before you can know what They mean by "there is no God besides Them."
Now are you going to teach us who God is?

وَإِلَٰهُكُمْ إِلَٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ ۖ لَّا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ الرَّحْمَٰنُ الرَّحِيمُ
And your god is one God. There is no deity [worthy of worship] except Him, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. [2:163]

It is "Him", not they or them.

I completely agree with the quotes you gave from the Quran. I know the Real God.

Just as there were many Saints who made up Christ's Body, there are many parts of God's Body. The parts of ?Christ's Body were separate people, but they were One in Christ.
Jesus Christ was one man, not made up of several people!


It is clear from your posts that you are not here to learn, but to preach your own version of polytheism.

:threadclo
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