Shariah law

[KIP]

Quick question, does every muslim or most muslims want shariah law in their country? Some aspects of Shariah are cruel and violent. That is why I pose the question.

[sister herb]

Some aspects of Shariah are cruel and violent.

How much you really know about the shariah? Only this blah-blah what media writes about it? If yes, you better not believe everything, specially when writers aren´t (the most obiviously) Muslims themselves neither scholars.

And a quick response; I don´t see nothing wrong if the law of Islam would be here. As knowing here the majority of people are Christians and only about 1% of population are Muslims, seems that I need to wait it quite long time.

[keiv]

Quick question, does every muslim or most muslims want shariah law in their country? Some aspects of Shariah are cruel and violent. That is why I pose the question.

No because I'm in the USA. It would not work here simply because it's not an Islamic country. Implementing parts of it such as in religious marriages and what not are understandable but implementing the Sharia on a state or nationwide level would not work.

In an Islamic country, on the other hand, would make sense since, after all, it's an Islamic country...

Just out of curiousity, what are some of the aspects of it that you feel are cruel and violent?

[Futuwwa]

"shariah law" is too an imprecise term for that question to be relevantly answered.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[KIP]

I'm not concerned about Shariah taking over my country. I just want to know how many agree with it. I am not concerned with media propaganda. I look for the source.
On Islamic websites an the Quran, the punishments for theft (under conditions) is amputation of the hand. Stoning is also seriously savage. I do not believe most muslims think these things are ok.

[Hulk]

People are always so narrow with sharia, only looking at the hudud. The sharia is much broader and not so simplistic, unfortunately just about every non muslim's understanding of it (and perhaps some muslims as well) is sharia = cruel punishment.

If the punishment scares you, why don't you ask yourself what you think of the sharia if for example the punishment aspect was suspended or perhaps it was different? Would it then be OK to have the sharia? Do you even know what it is?

[Abz2000]

I believe that establishing Islamic law in it's entirety is the best way to success for the individual and the society and for the success of future generations in this world and in eternity, i do not claim to be an angel or a perfect human being (if there was ever such a thing as a perfect human being), but i know for certain that the way of life that the Creator and Master of the universe has enjoined upon mankind is the best way of living in peace, harmony and stability.
i don't want my stuff stolen and i don't wan't my spouse to commit adultery and neither i hope does she, and because Allah cares about us He has enjoined the way to success and has imposed certain scary consequences on those who would refuse to repent and walk aright and would see theft and adultery as light issues or deeds to revel in and would corrupt society in the process.
i would definitely like to save myself and my fellow human beings and my progeny from the evil worldly consequences of kufr (infidelity, rejection of God's authority and laws, and ingratitude to God) in this world's life and in the hereafter when the unrepentant criminals in God's kingdom will be held to full account and punished (if you think "shariah"s bad, you definitely ain't prepared for hell) and the seekers of truth and goodness (and the truth and goodness is from God the All Knowing and Wise) will be shown grace.
One thing for certain is that the Law of God is enjoined upon the whole of Mankind and is to be established in it's entirety, the justice and governing system is not built only to cater to thieves and adulterers who grow up in an ocean of ignorance, shamelessness and crime, but caters to the everyday issues of the orphan, the needy, the just about to marry, the just about to divorce, the widow, the home buyer, the trader, the employer, the labourer, the lender, the borrower, the inheritor, the dying, the dead, the mourner, and the newly born, the living, the taxpayer, the tax collector, the vehicle rider, the one sitting on the waypath, the eater, the sleeper, the dreamer and every other situation and circumstance

It doesn't happen in one day, and requires a lot of effort and hopefully we'll come together and accept it unanimously soon.
i mean who in their right mind would want to be alive amongst those upon whom comes the final hour?
i'd prefer that we walk aright together and petition for a motion to delay that awful day, we can do that together - or at least separate ourselves based on Islam and kufr until that cool breeze comes, in the hearts of green birds isbetter than having the heart of a bird and fornicating like donkeys.

[KIP]

^ Other aspects of shariah bother me, of course. But the brutal punishments are the most concerning. This should be obvious to anyone.
I said before I am not worried about shariah in my country. I want to know if all muslims want it, as it was written by men and may not be entirely correct according to the Quran.

[Abz2000]

Universal truth is not measured by mass appeal which is increasingly frequently manipulated via social conditioning through electronic media and press with lies, half baked truths, anything but the truth and deception - truth remains the truth and all else falls apart when attempts are made to undo it.

Promotion of adultery and theft indicates the state of mind of the promoters - i seek refuge with God.
They can become very attractive to people when it becomes widespread and accepted in society until such a society descends into a woeful and pitiful focal point of depression, betrayal and escapism via antidepressants, other mind numbing drugs and alcoholism ("soma" as coined by aldous huxley), but for those who think that future generations hereafter will feel the ill effects and don't care, should care about their own hereafter.
The punishments are gruesome for a reason, they're meant to send shudders through the spines of anyone who thinks of them even if they're unable to think past their relatively short lifespans on earth.

[Futuwwa]

^ Other aspects of shariah bother me, of course. But the brutal punishments are the most concerning. This should be obvious to anyone.
I said before I am not worried about shariah in my country. I want to know if all muslims want it, as it was written by men and may not be entirely correct according to the Quran.

Well, there is no such thing as one, common, universal sharia code. There are differences in jurisprudence there too. Therefore, when you ask "Muslims, do you want sharia?", every Muslim who reads that question will understand the implications of that question differently.

[M.I.A.]

one letter away from ukip..

I'm not fussed really.

but you should ask yourself if you would ban sharia while it does not exist?

not my choice to make.

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Quick question, does every muslim or most muslims want shariah law in their country? Some aspects of Shariah are cruel and violent. That is why I pose the question.

You might want to browse this post in this thread "What makes a Person a Muslim?" as that post at least tangentially discusses the answer to your question.

Best Wishes,

[Ummshareef]

But the brutal punishments are the most concerning.

Well, every legal system needs punishments and one of the main purposes of any punishment system is to deter would-be offenders. In Islamic law this is typically achieved using corporal punishment administered in public, which is a very effective way of warning others to stay away from sin by filling them with fear and dread.

For example, in proven cases of fornication, Islam mandates that both the man and the woman are to receive 100 lashes - a severe punishment prescribed by Allah subhanahu wa ta'alaa to remind everyone that seeking illicit physical pleasure only leads to physical pain, thereby deterring them from committing the same sin.

As a result, alhamdulillah offending is extremely rare and society is safer and protected from wrongdoing.

[greenhill]

Brutal punishment....

That is the ultimate result. Like death sentence. Like the eye for an eye concept. But there is always forgiveness. And in islam, forgiveness is key. Did you know? how could one expect Allah to be forgiving when we are full of vengeance? Comprehend?

Even Jesus pbuh said about stoning, let those without sin be the first to throw the stone.. what does that mean?

It is a preventive punishment. And judges are supposed to be fair and wise. Not power hungry tyrants.

Also remember that wrong judgements will also be questioned later when we meet our maker.. but people forget.


Just because there is a big hole in front of you, does not mean you will fall into it.


:peace:

[KIP]

Well, every legal system needs punishments and one of the main purposes of any punishment system is to deter would-be offenders. In Islamic law this is typically achieved using corporal punishment administered in public, which is a very effective way of warning others to stay away from sin by filling them with fear and dread.

For example, in proven cases of fornication, Islam mandates that both the man and the woman are to receive 100 lashes

The punishment does not fit the crime. Not even close. The ends do not justify the means.

[Ummshareef]

The punishment does not fit the crime. Not even close. The ends do not justify the means.

Muslims see fornication as very harmful as it has repercussions to health (disease, lack of interest in lawful relationships), society (unwanted children, single parent families) and spiritual well-being (shame). It is one of relatively few sins that has a punishment prescribed in the Qur'an, which indicates the importance of stamping it out from society.

Instead, Islam places great value on happy family life, which forms the basis of any peaceful and just society and which is often described as half our religion. We see fornication as a disease that eats away at everything around it, which is why the punishment is severe and exemplary. In any case, since it is mandated in the Qur'an it is not for us to question, but rather to draw the obvious lesson and stay away from this sin.

[noraina]

Sharia law is so much more than the hudud punishments everyone likes to focus on, and even with these 'strict' punishments Allah swt has placed very stringent conditions before anyone can be accused. Granted, some Muslim countries or individuals take the law into their own hands and twist Shariah law to suit themselves, but the fault is with them.

For example, punishment for theft is a little more complex than amputating the hand. I read if it's a time of famine, or the individual was suffering from poverty, then their hand isn't amputated. So it's not all black and white.

But besides, such deterrants protect society long-term if done through fair and just courts, I think we all know there would be utter chaos if people believe they could do what they wanted without any retribution.

[keiv]

KIP, rule over a country and then we can see what kind of laws you put in place.

Just for the record, which country do you feel has the fairest laws? I can tell you here in the US, there are career criminals who spend their life in and out of jail never learning or contributing anything to society while, we, the innocent working people have to pay for it. In some cases, some of us innocent people have to pay for it with our lives when we get robbed, shot, raped, beat, etc. by these career criminals who will more than likely be back out in a few years depending on the crime/judge. I'd rather have my hand cut off rather than spending years locked up in a cage surrounded by other goons. I can guarantee you whatever crime I committed to have my hand cut off in the first place, won't be done again.

I've got a friend I grew up with who got 10 years in a state prison for getting caught in one of those sting operations for going to meet with, what he thought, was a 15 year old girl. 10 years locked up in a cage with no criminal record for going to meet up with someone who, although a fake person, consented to meet him. We were either 20 or 21 at the time when this happened. All the while we have murderers, robbers, rapists, people who've actually committed real crimes and actually hurt or even killed people, getting 10-20 years in jail, maybe even less in some cases. I'd rather get lashed 20 times on the back with the old fashion slavery whips than to be thrown in a cage surrounded by other criminals.

[KIP]

Just for the record, which country do you feel has the fairest laws?

I'm not in the US, and I agree it has major crime problems there and the system to deal with criminals is seriously flawed. Prevention is better than cure.
Most criminals are not bad people, just have bad upbringing, childhood neglect or abuse or drug addicted. Early intervention in cases such as these needs to be prioritised.
As to your question, Norway has the fairest laws, according to the data, along with other northern european countries. US isn't even close to fair.

[Ummshareef]

Most criminals are not bad people

One of the differences between Islamic society and many other societies is that in Islam pity is reserved for the victim of a crime, whereas in other societies pity is often directed towards the perpetrator. This has the unintended effect of encouraging people to think that crime is somehow acceptable, whereas in Islam the severity of the punishments meted out to criminals leaves no room for doubt about the difference between right and wrong.

[Serinity]

The Punishments serve as a deterrent.

But say a poor man who had no choice but to steal, his hands would not be cut. As he was forced to steal out of necessity/circumstance. Before Laws are initated, the basic human needs must be fulfilled.

And Allah :swt: knows best.

[Abz2000]

^if a poor man or a rich man steals the community would have to hear him out and the factors surrounding the action would have to be looked into, sometimes an action initially reported as theft is found to be a misunderstanding, sometimes the victim of the theft consciously and willingly forgives despite the court having ruled in favour of the victim, and sometimes the penalty is carried out in justice. If such a person was indeed starving then the community would need to turn to themselves and see where they're going wrong, the thief would in that case be a co-victim and the community would need to reimburse the person/people stolen from, and in Islam, every human being is entitled at absolute minimum to necessary lawful food that suffices them and the cloth to cover the fard.

It is required to establish Islam in it's entirety for any community to function smoothly, instead of a corrupt unislamic government enforcing zakat whilst neglecting prayer, beheading opponents for treason against the state whilst using shariah to justify it, we need just Islamic courts which demand that people submit to Allah and then within that obedience, to the court.
Then there'd be justice and sane minded people working together positively instead of unjustifiable corruption and wronged people out seeking revenge.

[Neha Qadri]

First Apply sharia on each individual Muslim personally then if we will discuss so it will be batter

[Serinity]

^if a poor man or a rich man steals the community would have to hear him out and the factors surrounding the action would have to be looked into, sometimes an action initially reported as theft is found to be a misunderstanding, sometimes the victim of the theft consciously and willingly forgives despite the court having ruled in favour of the victim, and sometimes the penalty is carried out in justice. If such a person was indeed starving then the community would need to turn to themselves and see where they're going wrong, the thief would in that case be a co-victim and the community would need to reimburse the person/people stolen from, and in Islam, every human being is entitled at absolute minimum to necessary lawful food that suffices them and the cloth to cover the fard.

It is required to establish Islam in it's entirety for any community to function smoothly, instead of a corrupt unislamic government enforcing zakat whilst neglecting prayer, beheading opponents for treason against the state whilst using shariah to justify it, we need just Islamic courts which demand that people submit to Allah and then within that obedience, to the court.
Then there'd be justice and sane minded people working together positively instead of unjustifiable corruption and wronged people out seeking revenge.

That is what I am saying. one can not apply Law without the basics being met. A person who is starving or has no other source to food except to steal, it would be unjust for a ruler to carry out Hadd punishment on that person, because the basic needs are not met.

When the basic needs are met, only then can we apply Law. If a state is not supplying its citizens with halal alternatives, then the state has no right to apply Law. For before law comes needs.

If I say "If you steal, your hands will be cut", on the surface this is ok, but if I have not provided you with an alternative, i.e. if I didn't give you a source to food, giving you no option except to steal, Hadd punishment would not be applied in this case.

Let me give you an example:

The State legislates that hunting for food is prohibited. The state has not provided the basic needs for the citizens.

The citizens have no source for food except that place for hunting, which the state prohibited. As such, the state can not apply a law prohibiting something before the basic needs are met.

The only way for the State to apply the hunt-ban is to give the citizens an alternative.

Shariah Law is perfect, and Shariah Law gives every person the right for basic needs, such as food, water, clothing etc. If those are not met, then applying the Hadd punishment without giving an alternative, would be unjust.

So no matter how much the State prohibits hunting for food, if the state doesn't give an alternative, the citizens will keep hunting for food from that place, despite the law. So before Law comes the needs.

may Allah :swt: forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.

And Allah :swt: knows best.