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Scimitar
08-19-2016, 03:17 PM
It's true... I have felt this world has been hoodwinked by dodgy media narratives since 1993 during the first gulf war crisis... but I was young and impressionable and got into a whole load of bad stuff.

Cue two weeks before 911 and I dreamed about it - yes, I saw the twin towers up in the sky with what looked like rocket thrusters under them and this dream would come back to me during the day in moments that can only be described as somewhere in between deja vu and and a bad trip. I didn't know what it meant but as I sat there at work on that fateful day when the towers got blown up and thousands of innocent people died - It was like a memory already passed... and I actually passed out briefly to boot.

Since then, I changed my life and my choices. I became keen on understanding the big questions most of us prefer to ignore, and though I struggled with drugs and depression through this testing time, I came through it with Allahs help, alhamdulillah.

I notice the forum peeps don't look too kindly on conspiracy theories or theorists - and I have to ask why?

You're all willing to discuss politics (that game of lies and false promises and the illusion of choice) while calling us, the ones who seek truth - conspiracy theorists? I find it quite contradictory a statement.

Personally, I am happy to identify as a Muslim conspiracy theorist and am too long in the tooth to care what people think. I'm no spring chicken lol, forty one now and alhamdulillah I feel like the past 15 years have been truly educational alhamdulillah.

Meanwhile - your political discussions make you "conspiracy theorists" by default while claiming you are not.

Recognise the flaw in your logic.

Scimi
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Akhi_Umar
08-19-2016, 03:24 PM
:sl:

I don't see anything wrong with it.
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-19-2016, 03:30 PM
What about the conspiracy that there are aliens living in Area 51?
Reply

Scimitar
08-19-2016, 03:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
What about the conspiracy that there are aliens living in Area 51?
LOL, funny.

Area51 is Lockheed Martins R+D base, aka "skunk works" - I read the account of Ben Rich's time there as CEO in the late fifties to sixties - and how they developed the SR71 blackbird (does mach 3 you know) and the U2 spy plane (pilots were made to sign disclaimers that should they die, their families are entitled to nada - oh yeah the fuselage of the U2 was paper, and the landing wheels were taken from push bikes) and the F117a Stealth bomber (which was fully functional in the 60's but was only revealed during operation desert storm because they could no longer keep the bomber a secret due to the "offifial secrets act"... the interesting thing here is - for thirty years they did test runs on the bomber and due to its strange triangular shape - the 60's, 70's and 80's were rife with reports from across the world regarding strange "triangular shaped UFO's")...

Rabbit holes - people should really go down them



Scimi
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-19-2016, 03:52 PM
But no aliens?

You've done a lot of research on the conspiracy theory business.

What is your view on the following conspiracy theories:

1) Barack Obama is a Muslim.

2) The world is run by the "Illuminati". No news agency in the world can bring out their daily newspaper without it first being approved by this group. All presidents around the world are installed by them. They are Jews, and so the Jews are running the world behind the scenes...

3) Hitler was a Muslim who secretly used to make Salaah. (Conspiracy theorists claim Hitler made the following statement: "..Hence today, I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator, by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of ALLAH.”

-Adolf Hitler | Mein Kampf"
Reply

sister herb
08-19-2016, 04:02 PM
I believe that for being a good conspiracy theorist, person has to have a great imagination.

:thumbsup:
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kritikvernunft
08-19-2016, 04:05 PM
1) Barack Obama is a Muslim

Technically, that could be true. If you apply "The child of a Muslim man is a Muslim" as strictly as "The child of a Jewish woman is a Jew" is ordinarily applied -- The child of a Jewish woman can simply not deny to be a Jew -- in that case, Obama is technically a Muslim.
Reply

Scimitar
08-19-2016, 04:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
But no aliens?
None that i found convincing... oh did I mention I'm a dab hand inside of special effects software for film? I can spot fakes a mile off.

format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
But no aliens? You've done a lot of research on the conspiracy theory business.
My conspiracy studies stem from a very long investment in 17 ayaat of al kahf and 2 in al anbiyah, I'm sure you know where I am going with this.

format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
But no aliens? What is your view on the following conspiracy theories:

1) Barack Obama is a Muslim.
That's between him and Allah. I do not know what is in his heart, it's not like I can cut him open and check now is it? :D

format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
2) The world is run by the "Illuminati". No news agency in the world can bring out their daily newspaper without it first being approved by this group. All presidents around the world are installed by them. They are Jews, and so the Jews are running the world behind the scenes...
I used to work in the media, in fact I was working in Trinity Mirror Southern when the planes hit the twin towers - Reuters showed it first, and all news agencies bought the footage from reuters who are the international news bank... yep, they have news banks.

As for illuminati - and freemasonry, and the off-spin groups - they all vie for one thing - Zionism. Straight standard - surely you know the story of Solomon pbuh and how he confiscated the tablets of magic from the children of Israel no? And when the crusaders turned up, they dug under the supposed place of Solomons throne and found these tablets - they didn't understand the text so they asked the Muslim imams who were arrested and the Imams said "this writing is old and not from our people, try the Christians" and off came mt Muslim imams heads...

the Christian priests referred to the Jews and off came the Christian priests heads...

The Jews, caved in - and from that point - the devil had shaken hands with the Jews who fomented the Kabalah and hence - what is referred to by them as "the plan of ages" was put in to motion... a return to Jerusalem by people who were never Jews to begin with was now a politically justified ideal.

Next step was to get Christian sympathisers to lend credence to the movement - this unholy alliance between Jews and Christians called Zionism is spoken of in the Qur'an in a very beautiful and subtle way:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. - Al Maida: 51

I have Christian friends and Jewish friends, but none of these are Zionists... This verse seems to be identifying exactly this fitan which has permeated the fabric of middle eastern reality today.

format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
3) Hitler was a Muslim who secretly used to make Salaah. (Conspiracy theorists claim Hitler made the following statement: "..Hence today, I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator, by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of ALLAH.”-Adolf Hitler | Mein Kampf"
Refer to the answer I gave to question regarding Obama.

Scimi
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-19-2016, 04:18 PM
I only recently discovered that three famous figures in the Muslim world were in fact Freemasons:

1) Rashid Rida.

2) Jamaal-ud-Deen Afghani.

3) Muhammad Abduh.

I don't think Rashid Rida needs any introduction. He basically started the "modernist/reformist" movement. In fact, he had visited Darul Uloom Deoband back in the time when some of the senior `Ulamaa were still teaching there, and they praised him and considered him to be a great `Aalim. So he had managed to deceive even great `Ulamaa into thinking he was a good person.

Another guy who's openly admitted to being a Freemason is Harun Yahya (Adnan Oktar). He claims to be a 33rd Degree Freemason. A "Grandmaster". You can find this lunatic's ramblings in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eUOY1SGxyQ

[WARNING: The clip contains immodestly dressed women (like all the rest of his videos do).]
Reply

Scimitar
08-19-2016, 04:23 PM
Adnan Okhtar's story is a weird one. I bougt some of his books post 911, got the freemasonry one he published. The very same where he condemned the Freemason movement as satanic. And now, he jives to house music during commercial breaks with his plastic bombshell mistresses whilst glorifying freemasonry... he even invited masons to his show and praised them - I was cringing through the whole thing. How the mighty fall eh?

Scimi
Reply

Mustafa16
08-19-2016, 04:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
I only recently discovered that three famous figures in the Muslim world were in fact Freemasons:

1) Rashid Rida.

2) Jamaal-ud-Deen Afghani.

3) Muhammad Abduh.

I don't think Rashid Rida needs any introduction. He basically started the "modernist/reformist" movement. In fact, he had visited Darul Uloom Deoband back in the time when some of the senior `Ulamaa were still teaching there, and they praised him and considered him to be a great `Aalim. So he had managed to deceive even great `Ulamaa into thinking he was a good person.

Another guy who's openly admitted to being a Freemason is Harun Yahya (Adnan Oktar). He claims to be a 33rd Degree Freemason. A "Grandmaster". You can find this lunatic's ramblings in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eUOY1SGxyQ

[WARNING: The clip contains immodestly dressed women (like all the rest of his videos do).]
oh yes, harun yahya is way out there.....
Reply

jabeady
08-19-2016, 04:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
LOL, funny.

Area51 is Lockheed Martins R+D base, aka "skunk works" - I read the account of Ben Rich's time there as CEO in the late fifties to sixties - and how they developed the SR71 blackbird (does mach 3 you know) and the U2 spy plane (pilots were made to sign disclaimers that should they die, their families are entitled to nada - oh yeah the fuselage of the U2 was paper, and the landing wheels were taken from push bikes) and the F117a Stealth bomber (which was fully functional in the 60's but was only revealed during operation desert storm because they could no longer keep the bomber a secret due to the "offifial secrets act"... the interesting thing here is - for thirty years they did test runs on the bomber and due to its strange triangular shape - the 60's, 70's and 80's were rife with reports from across the world regarding strange "triangular shaped UFO's")...

Rabbit holes - people should really go down them



Scimi
So, you're 41! Congrats! I can almost remember when I was that young. Almost.

Also,congrats on your research. You've accomplished what the Testor Model Company did, but they managed it before those planes became public knowledge, and then made them into model plane kits.

A government conspiracy is an official act so secret that the government is the only group that doesn't know about it.
Reply

Scimitar
08-19-2016, 04:33 PM
Thank you for the kind words lol

format_quote Originally Posted by jabeady

A government conspiracy is an official act so secret that the government is the only group that doesn't know about it.
That made me giggle. The buck doesn't stop at the "government"... the food chain goes way higher than that. :nervous:

Scimi
Reply

ardianto
08-19-2016, 04:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by kritikvernunft
1) Barack Obama is a Muslim

Technically, that could be true. If you apply "The child of a Muslim man is a Muslim" as strictly as "The child of a Jewish woman is a Jew" is ordinarily applied -- The child of a Jewish woman can simply not deny to be a Jew -- in that case, Obama is technically a Muslim.
Jew is ethnic that associated with offspring, while Islam is religion that associated with choice. Descendant of a Jewish is Jewish too, but descendant of Muslim does not automatically become Muslim because religion not inherited through DNA.
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ardianto
08-19-2016, 04:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
I only recently discovered that three famous figures in the Muslim world were in fact Freemasons:

1) Rashid Rida.

2) Jamaal-ud-Deen Afghani.

3) Muhammad Abduh.
I am sure Muhammadiyah Indonesia disagree with you.

Muhammadiyah is the second biggest Muslim organization in Indonesia, which very inspired by the thought from these three figures. But I don't think Muhammadiyah relate to Masonic.
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Scimitar
08-19-2016, 05:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16
oh yes, harun yahya is way out there.....
There is a story to his "conversion" to Freemasonry, which he does not share openly but it did circulate on WakeUpProject forum when it was still alive. Apparently some time in the naughties, he was arrested and disappeared for two years and his mind was "conditioned" via various torture methods to compromise his Islam and lose his esteemed reputation in the Muslim world... if this is actually true - it worked a bloody charm.

Scimi
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-19-2016, 05:12 PM
Apparently he spent some time in an asylum.
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-19-2016, 05:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
I am sure Muhammadiyah Indonesia disagree with you.

Muhammadiyah is the second biggest Muslim organization in Indonesia, which very inspired by the thought from these three figures. But I don't think Muhammadiyah relate to Masonic.
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=17758

Do a Google search on "Rashid Rida freemason".
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Scimitar
08-19-2016, 05:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
Apparently he spent some time in an asylum.
Yes, this was in the article posted as an OP in WUP-FORUM when it was still alive.

Scimi
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greenhill
08-19-2016, 06:07 PM
I believe in it though it is I believe, more complex and deeper than we we care to admit.

Why?

Because Syaitan made the vow to lead us astray. That is right at the beginning. He therefore must have his human 'doers'.

A vow to lead us astray (except for those few as Allah has Said) means anything goes and there are no rules of engagement. So syaitan has kept up his vow. With every prophet, he set about an adversary.

Because Allah's laws have always been to bear patience, the ones showing no patience gets his way.

As such it would quickly become apparent how a strategy could be worked out to counter the messages as it came and implement a system that would be hard to breakdown.

Secularism. As Allah perfected the deen for us, the adversary was also ready to be put in place...

And they conspire to lead us astray.. it is no theory.. and these events are not coincidental.. so perhaps, theory is not the right word...

:peace:
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Scimitar
08-19-2016, 06:17 PM
I'm pleased you touched on the "secular" deception Greenhill,

Today, those of us who live in the west are obligated to "vote" in Secular countries so we can be ruled by "secular laws" and we're made to believe this is an Islamic practice :D

While the forum voted during the BREXIT circus, I stayed on the side lines with my popcorn. I was safe. While the others got taken for a backwards ride - in the name of secularism :D

You think you have choice when you vote? Eh Europeans and Amriki's? The only choice you have is a) you vote or b) you don't vote... and when you vote, you don't actually have a choice - but the illusion of choice.

Name me one party that fufilled its manifesto - coz I aint found one.

And people have short term amnesia... 1million Londoners marched to Blairs doorstep - in a city with only 7 million people - a million marching is bloody substantial - and they marched so Blair would U-turn his decision to go into Iraq under the pretense of WMD's... did it work? did it fonk.

Voting in secular society is a joke and that joke, is on the voters themselves.

Scimi
Reply

noraina
08-19-2016, 06:21 PM
I find conspiracy theories fascinating, not in the least because in many cases they could be the truth, and even if they're not, they're still so interesting, lol.

This world isn't black and white, we certainly aren't going to see all the workings and details behind something all the time and I pretty much doubt the authorities or those behind it are going to reveal the whole truth either. I think we blindly believe in the institutions around us simply because we are so used to them being there.

Most of the time we're brought up to believe we're thinking rationally and using our own opinions when in reality, without realising, your opinions and reasoning are being shaped by others. We live in a very small world in a very global place. It's getting increasingly hard to be able to think on your own accord. And no, I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist but if anyone wants to be they're welcome, I'll gladly consider what they have to say :D.

Ultimately, Allah swt knows what is in the hearts of men, what they conceal and what they reveal.
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M.I.A.
08-19-2016, 07:50 PM
is this another evolution thread?

how can you reconcile the ultimate all governing power of Allah swt with conspiracy?

please write in clear paragraphs.

because I wrote you several posts before rewriting them and then finally deleting them.

I hope to one day write better. insha'allah.
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jabeady
08-19-2016, 08:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Today, those of us who live in the west are obligated to "vote" in Secular countries so we can be ruled by "secular laws" and we're made to believe this is an Islamic practice
There are very few Western nations that "obligate" you to vote. And who's trying to make you believe that voting is Islamic. Or is this another conspiracy?
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Scimitar
08-19-2016, 09:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A.
is this another evolution thread?

how can you reconcile the ultimate all governing power of Allah swt with conspiracy?

please write in clear paragraphs.

because I wrote you several posts before rewriting them and then finally deleting them.

I hope to one day write better. insha'allah.
this is not an evolution thread.

this is a sentence separated from a paragraph.

you started a sentence with "because" while asking me to write clearly and plain paragraphs - which is what I am doing but I find your grammar nazi-ness is kinda contradictory.

in sha Allah the hint helps you to write better.

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
08-19-2016, 09:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by jabeady
There are very few Western nations that "obligate" you to vote. And who's trying to make you believe that voting is Islamic. Or is this another conspiracy?
Jabeady, if you want to open a can of worms regarding ballot box scandals and voting booths being provided "pencils" then sure - be my guest...

....Scimi
Reply

Abz2000
08-19-2016, 09:02 PM
Conspiracy -

Conspiracy (civil), an agreement between people to deceive, mislead, or defraud others of their legal rights or to gain an unfair advantage

Conspiracy (criminal), an agreement between people to break the law in the future, in some cases having committed an act to further that agreement

Conspiracy (political), an agreement between people with the goal of gaining political power or meeting a political objective

Hub-and-spoke conspiracy, a conspiracy in which one or more principal conspirators (the "hub") enter into several similar agreements with others (the "spokes") who know concerted action is contemplated, usually where the success of the concerted action depends on the participation of the other spokes

Theory - Theory*is a*contemplative*and*rationaltype of*abstract*or generalizing thinking, or the results of such thinking. Depending on the context, the results might for example include generalized explanations of how*nature*works. The word has its roots in*ancient Greek, but in modern use it has taken on several different related meanings.A theory can be*normative*(or prescriptive),[1][page*needed]*meaning a postulation about what ought to be. It provides "goals, norms, and standards". A theory can be a*body of knowledge, which may or may not be associated with particular explanatory models. To theorize is to develop this body of knowledge.[2]:46As already in Aristotle's definitions, theory is very often contrasted to "practice" (from Greek*praxis, πρᾶξις) a Greek term for "doing", which is opposed to theory because pure theory involves no doing apart from itself. A classical example of the distinction between "theoretical" and "practical" uses the discipline of medicine:*medical theory*involves trying to understand the*causes*and nature of health and sickness, while the practical side of medicine is trying to make people healthy. These two things are related but can be independent, because it is possible to research health and sickness without curing specific patients, and it is possible to cure a patient without knowing how the cure worked.[3]In modern*science, the term "theory" refers to*scientific theories, a well-confirmed type of explanation of*nature, made in a way*consistent*with*scientific method, and fulfilling the*criteriarequired by*modern science. Such theories are described in such a way that any scientist in the field is in a position to understand and either provide*empirical*support ("verify") or empirically contradict ("falsify") it. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge,[4]*in contrast to more common uses of the word "theory" that imply that something is unproven or speculative (which is better characterized by the word 'hypothesis').[5]*Scientific theories are distinguished from*hypotheses, which are individual empirically testable*conjectures, and*scientific laws, which are descriptive accounts of how nature will behave under certain conditions.


Operation northwoods:


Operation Northwoods*was a proposed*false flag*operation against the Cuban government, that originated within the*Department of Defense*(DoD) and the*Joint Chiefs of Staff*(JCS) of the*United States government*in 1962. The proposals called for the*Central Intelligence Agency*(CIA) or other*U.S. government*operatives to commit acts of terrorism against American civilians and military targets, blaming it on the Cuban government, and using it to justify a war against Cuba. The proposals were rejected by the*Kennedy administration.

At the time of the proposal, communists led by*Fidel Castro*had recently taken power in Cuba. The operation proposed creating public support for a war against Cuba by blaming it for terrorist acts that would actually be perpetrated by the US Government.

*To this end, Operation Northwoods proposals recommended hijackings and*bombingsfollowed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government. It stated:

The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.

Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various*US military*and civilian targets. The operation recommended developing a "Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington".

The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman*Lyman Lemnitzer*and sent to the*Secretary of Defense. Although part of the US government's anti-communist*Cuban Project, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted; it was authorized by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President*John F. Kennedy. According to currently released documentation, none of the operations became active under the auspices of the Operation Northwoods proposals.






1.*Allah has indeed heard (and accepted) the statement of the woman who pleads with thee concerning her husband and carries her complaint (in prayer) to Allah. and Allah (always) hears the arguments between both sides among you: for Allah hears and sees (all things).
2.*If any men among you divorce their wives by Zihar (calling them mothers), they cannot be their mothers: None can be their mothers except those who gave them birth. And in fact they use words (both) iniquitous and false: but truly Allah is one that blots out (sins), and forgives (again and again).
3.*But those who divorce their wives by Zihar, then wish to go back on the words they uttered,- (It is ordained that such a one) should free a slave before they touch each other: Thus are ye admonished to perform: and Allah is well-acquainted with (all) that ye do.
4.*And if any has not (the wherewithal), he should fast for two months consecutively before they touch each other. But if any is unable to do so, he should feed sixty indigent ones, this, that ye may show your faith in Allah and His Messenger. Those are limits (set by) Allah. For those who reject (Him), there is a grievous Penalty.
5.*Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be humbled to dust, as were those before them: for We have already sent down Clear Signs. And the Unbelievers (will have) a humiliating Penalty,
6.*On the Day that Allah will raise them all up (again) and show them the Truth (and meaning) of their conduct. Allah has reckoned its (value), though they may have forgotten it, for Allah is Witness to all things.

7.*Seest thou not that Allah doth know (all) that is in the heavens and on earth? There is not a conspiracy between three, but He makes the fourth among them, - Nor between five but He makes the sixth,- nor between fewer nor more, but He is in their midst, wheresoever they be: In the end will He tell them the truth of their conduct, on the Day of Judgment. For Allah has full knowledge of all things.

8.*Turnest thou not thy sight towards those who were forbidden to engage in conspiracy yet revert to that which they were forbidden (to do)? And they hold conspiracies among themselves for iniquity and hostility, and disobedience to the Messenger. And when they come to thee, they salute thee, not as Allah salutes thee, (but in crooked ways): And they say to themselves, "Why does not Allah punish us for our words?" Enough for them is Hell: In it will they burn, and evil is that destination!


9.*O ye who believe! When ye hold conspiracy, do it not for iniquity and hostility, and disobedience to the Prophet; but do it for righteousness and self- restraint; and fear Allah, to Whom ye shall be brought back.

10.*Conspiracies are only (inspired) by the Evil One in order that he may cause grief to the Believers; but he cannot harm them in the least, except as Allah permits; and on Allah let the Believers put their trust.[/b]
11.*O ye who believe! When ye are told to make room in the assemblies, (spread out and) make room: (ample) room will Allah provide for you. And when ye are told to rise up, rise up Allah will rise up, to (suitable) ranks (and degrees), those of you who believe and who have been granted Knowledge. And Allah is well- acquainted with all ye do.
12.*O ye who believe! When ye consult the Messenger in private, spend something in charity before your private consultation. That will be best for you, and most conducive to purity (of conduct). But if ye find not (the wherewithal), Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
13.*Is it that ye are afraid of spending sums in charity before your private consultation (with him)? If, then, ye do not so, and Allah forgives you, then (at least) establish regular prayer; practise regular charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
14.*Turnest thou not thy attention to those who turn (in friendship) to such as have the Wrath of Allah upon them? They are neither of you nor of them, and they swear to falsehood knowingly.
15.*Allah has prepared for them a severe Penalty: evil indeed are their deeds.
16.*They have made their oaths a screen (for their misdeeds): thus they obstruct from the Path of Allah. therefore shall they have a humiliating Penalty.
17.*Of no profit whatever to them, against Allah, will be their riches nor their sons: they will be Companions of the Fire, to dwell therein (for aye)!
18.*One day will Allah raise them all up (for Judgment): then will they swear to Him as they swear to you: And they think that they have something (to stand upon). Is it not definitely they that are liars!
19.*The Evil One has got the better of them: so he has made them lose the remembrance of Allah. They are the Party of the Evil One. Truly, it is the Party of the Evil One that are losers!

20.*Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be among those most humiliated.
21.*Allah has decreed: "It is I and My messengers who must prevail": For Allah is One full of strength, able to enforce His Will.

22.*Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve success



Reply

jabeady
08-19-2016, 09:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Jabeady, if you want to open a can of worms regarding ballot box scandals and voting booths being provided "pencils" then sure - be my guest...

....Scimi
What does that have to do with the question?
Reply

M.I.A.
08-19-2016, 09:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
this is not an evolution thread.

this is a sentence separated from a paragraph.

you started a sentence with "because" while asking me to write clearly and plain paragraphs - which is what I am doing but I find your grammar nazi-ness is kinda contradictory.

in sha Allah the hint helps you to write better.

Scimi

..right, well..

I guess that's settled then.

:/

live in the moment.
Reply

keiv
08-19-2016, 09:45 PM
I would consider myself to be a "conspiracy theorist" and was an occasional visitor to the WUP forum (whatever happened to it?). I'm also a fan of "The Arrival" series. I'm not as deep into it as bro Scimitar but, I do like to read about it and watch videos. One has to use common sense when delving into such things. 9/11 is a prime example of all the different theories out there. Obviously not all of them can be correct, but not all of them can be pushed off to the side and immediately labeled as "loony" simply because the name calling group doesn't agree with what's being said. It's amazing how low people will go to trash talk the people who question such events when they themselves hardly know anything about it. The "official story" is blindly accepted by such people yet, we're looked at like we're uneducated or something.

I also don't vote, nor have I ever voted. I was never very political either because of how fake the world of politics are. Complete "polar opposite" to my dad. Even if he hated the candidates, he'd still vote for the lesser of the two evils which never made sense to me, not that I think voting matters to begin with. Whenever colleagues ask who I'm voting for and I state I'm not voting, they see that as being "sad". Unless there's some kind of anarchy or uprising, I honestly don't think any of us really have any control over anything. My whole adult life has not been effected by politics nor do I see it as having an effect were I to get into it, so I can't see the "sad" part of it.

It's also interesting to see how some of the religious folks look down on the conspiracy theorists and become sarcastic with their comments. The same way atheists act towards the religious folks, yet, they don't seem to catch on to that. Pretty ironic..
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cooterhein
08-19-2016, 11:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Today, those of us who live in the west are obligated to "vote" in Secular countries so we can be ruled by "secular laws" and we're made to believe this is an Islamic practice :D
If you ask me, Scimi, voting along with secularism are decidedly not Islamic in certain ways, if we're talking about the origins of ideas and practices. I do know who was behind the Enlightenment, and it wasn't Muslims.

I might even go as far to say that Muslims- taken together, globally- are at present not presently inclined to put much value in voting or in secular society. Probably a bit more value is placed in voting, but I wouldn't be surprised if both things have fairly low support overall.

With that being said, voting is something that anyone in the UK can do, and no religion or lack of religion is or ought to be a hindrance to that. Voting, and a secular society with it, is something that belongs to all of the UK and really all of the West, and that means you if you happen to reside there and are a citizen. Islam doesn't stop these things from being your thing, but that would mean your religion is unrelated to certain aspects of the nature and practice of the topics at hand.

Basically, I wouldn't be inclined to argue for any sort of Islam-positive position vis a vis these things. I have some Islam-neutral arguments to make, along with some non-Islamic observations concerning certain aspects of voting and of secular society.

With all that being said, it would be a good idea to vote. Even if you don't always vote at the top of the ticket, civic engagement at some level is worth doing.
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jabeady
08-20-2016, 12:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by keiv
It's also interesting to see how some of the religious folks look down on the conspiracy theorists and become sarcastic with their comments. The same way atheists act towards the religious folks, yet, they don't seem to catch on to that. Pretty ironic..
Excuse me? How do I act towards religious folks? Can you point to a couple of examples?
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kritikvernunft
08-20-2016, 03:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
Jew is ethnic that associated with offspring, while Islam is religion that associated with choice. Descendant of a Jewish is Jewish too, but descendant of Muslim does not automatically become Muslim because religion not inherited through DNA.
Obama's political opponents will usually claim that Obama is a Muslim by secret choice, and ignore the fact that his father was a Muslim.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/donald-tr...kAwO7Q0vQH11gf

There is absolutely no way to prove or disprove that claim.

They are also very big on the artificial distinction between moderate and radical Islam, as it is politically incorrect to attack Islam in general and certainly moderate Islam, but it is politically perfectly ok to demand action against radical Islam. Since this is not a provable nor testable subdivision of the reality in Islam, every decision based on that distinction, will always be inconsistent in ways.

In fact, the problem is even worse. In the case of Obama, you cannot reasonably argue that the distinction between Christianity and Islam would be that much stable. It is quite easy to argue that Obama would be either. He could at any time in his life proclaim something else.

But then again, they have no choice than to adopt the moderate-versus-radical Islam distinction because the alternative would be for them to declare war on Islam in general; which is an outcome that every politician will avoid like the plague. This is where the extremists in Islam have been failing up till now. They have not been able to achieve their goal by getting these politicians to declare war on Islam in general.
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Samiun
08-21-2016, 06:28 AM
:sl:

I don't think it's good for the youth as it poisons the mind to think that everything will go wrong(when in fact,everything moves by the will of Allah) and would ultimately lead to paronoia if not consulted.

It's good to know generally about the subject, but going deeper into it I would be against it. In my experience, the energy that you put into finding all these weird stuff happening all over the world is better to be put use to knowing anything about the deen especially the basics because it can and it will overwrite your mind slowly or rapidly because it's so interesting.
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TDWT
09-01-2016, 05:51 PM
eh, theories can be anything
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colinberry1
09-01-2016, 09:00 PM
Well I think that's what they call us, but they don't say nothing when the theory turns to truth. But things are changing very rapidly now but it just not changing quick enough for me, it would be lovely to live in a world of truth nothing can no longer be hidden or lied about.
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Snow
09-01-2016, 09:44 PM
I'm not sure I'd identify myself as a CT but I use loads of critical thinking when I'm getting info from the mainstream media sources.

I also enjoyed the book by Robert Anton Wilson called The Illuminatus Trilogy :haha:
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colinberry1
09-01-2016, 10:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Snow
I'm not sure I'd identify myself as a CT but I use loads of critical thinking when I'm getting info from the mainstream media sources.

I also enjoyed the book by Robert Anton Wilson called The Illuminatus Trilogy :haha:
Well if you're getting your information from mainstream media, well what do I say. let's go mad, David Icke.

Well the way I see it, the mainstream media tells you what the government wants you to know, if there is something that the government really don't want you to know, you certainly won't get it from the mainstream media. I think Trump gave a bit away when he said, the church won't speak politics because their tax exemption would be taken away.
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czgibson
09-01-2016, 11:18 PM
Greetings,

format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Adnan Okhtar's story is a weird one. I bougt some of his books post 911, got the freemasonry one he published. The very same where he condemned the Freemason movement as satanic. And now, he jives to house music during commercial breaks with his plastic bombshell mistresses whilst glorifying freemasonry... he even invited masons to his show and praised them - I was cringing through the whole thing. How the mighty fall eh?

Scimi
Many years ago on this forum I pointed out how much of a charlatan Adnan Oktar was and got repeatedly shouted down in return. Glad to see that common sense has, eventually, prevailed.

I will make the point that I always make when this topic comes up (sorry if I'm boring any of you):

Never forget that some conspiracy theories have been proven. Watergate, the rising threat of Nazi Germany and of course the Holocaust all started off as conspiracy theories.

There are lots that I don't believe, though, such as 9/11 and the moon landings.

For many years I have been sceptical of the Warren Commission Report.

Some conspiracy theorists make me laugh, like David Icke, who is undeniably an intelligent man. He's just also completely bonkers. :D

Peace
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colinberry1
09-02-2016, 11:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by czgibson
Some conspiracy theorists make me laugh, like David Icke, who is undeniably an intelligent man. He's just also completely bonkers.
I am sorry to hear you say that about David, he and his family have sacrifice a lot trying to get the message out there for over 20 years virtually destroying his live, while the knowledge and intelligence he have could have made him much richer man today if he had chosen to go the other way.
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Snow
09-03-2016, 12:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by colinberry1
Well if you're getting your information from mainstream media, well what do I say. let's go mad, David Icke.

Well the way I see it, the mainstream media tells you what the government wants you to know, if there is something that the government really don't want you to know, you certainly won't get it from the mainstream media. I think Trump gave a bit away when he said, the church won't speak politics because their tax exemption would be taken away.
Hahaha no.
I said "when..." not that I tend to seek out only the mainstream media.
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Scimitar
09-05-2016, 03:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by colinberry1
David Icke.
We don't have to go that far lol.

format_quote Originally Posted by colinberry1
Well the way I see it, the mainstream media tells you what the government wants you to know, if there is something that the government really don't want you to know, you certainly won't get it from the mainstream media. I think Trump gave a bit away when he said, the church won't speak politics because their tax exemption would be taken away.
Left wing, right wing - same bird. :D

Scimi
Reply

islamirama
09-05-2016, 07:00 PM
There are conspiracy theorist nut jobs out there with tin foil hats and paranoia. And then there are legit intelligent people out there questioning the official narrative and see through the lies and propaganda. Since they are refusing to be sheeps and questioning everything, the officials label them as "conspiracy theorists" to discredit them. Sadly the majority ignorant sheeple follow suit and do the same rather then having an open mind. That is the case on this forum, every forum and the world.

-------------------

Scientific Study Reveals Conspiracy Theorists The Most Sane Of All


If you’re a conspiracy theorist, then you’re crazy, right? That’s been the common belief for years, but recent studies prove that just the opposite is true.

Researchers — psychologists and social scientists, mostly — in the U.S. and United Kingdom say data indicate that, contrary to those mainstream media stereotypes, “conspiracy theorists” appear to be more sane than people who accept official versions of controversial and contested events.

The most recent study was published in July 2013 by psychologists Michael J. Wood and Karen M. Douglas of the University of Kent in the UK. Entitled “‘What about Building 7?’

A Social Psychological Study of Online Discussion of 9/11 Conspiracy Theories,”
the study compared “conspiracist,” or pro-conspiracy theory, and “conventionalist,” or anti-conspiracy, comments on news websites.

The researchers noted that they were surprised to find that it is now more conventional to leave so-called conspiracist comments than conventional ones.

“Of the 2174 comments collected, 1459 were coded as conspiracist and 715 as conventionalist,” the researchers wrote.

‘The research showed that people who favored the official account of 9/11 were generally more hostile’

So, among people who comment on news articles, those who discount official government accounts of events like the 9/11 attacks and the assassination of John F. Kennedy outnumber believers by more than two-to-one. That means the pro-conspiracy commenters are those who are now expressing what is considered conventional wisdom, while the anti-conspiracy commenters represent a small, beleaguered minority that is often scoffed at and shunned.

Perhaps becoming frustrated that their alleged mainstream viewpoints are no longer considered as such by the majority, those who are anti-conspiracy commenters often showed anger and disgust in their posts.

“The research… showed that people who favored the official account of 9/11 were generally more hostile when trying to persuade their rivals,” said the study.

Also, it seems that those who do not believe in the conspiracies were not just hostile but fanatically attached to their own conspiracy theories as well. The researchers said that, according to the anti-conspiracy holders, their own theory of 9/11 — one which says 19 Muslims, none of whom could fly commercial airliners with any proficiency, pulled off an amazing surprise attack under the direction of a man on dialysis (Osama bin Laden) who was living in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan — is unwaveringly true.

Meanwhile, “conspiracists,” on the hand, did not have to pretend to have a theory that completely explained the events of 9/11. “For people who think 9/11 was a government conspiracy, the focus is not on promoting a specific rival theory, but in trying to debunk the official account,” the researchers said.

As reported by Veterans Today:

In short, the new study by Wood and Douglas suggests that the negative stereotype of the conspiracy theorist — a hostile fanatic wedded to the truth of his own fringe theory — accurately describes the people who defend the official account of 9/11, not those who dispute it.

A conspiracy theory about a conspiracy theory

The study also found that conspiracy believers discuss historical context, like viewing the JFK assassination as a precedent for 9/11, more than the antis. It also found that conspiracy believers do not like to be labeled as such.

These and other findings are contained in a new book, Conspiracy Theory in America, by political scientist Lance deHaven-Smith, which was published last year by the University of Texas Press. He explained why people don’t like to be labeled as conspiracy theorists.”

“The CIA’s campaign to popularize the term ‘conspiracy theory’ and make conspiracy belief a target of ridicule and hostility must be credited, unfortunately, with being one of the most successful propaganda initiatives of all time,” he said.

He further noted that, essentially, those who use the term as an insult are doing so as the result of a well-documented, undisputed and historically accurate conspiracy by the CIA to cover up the JFK assassination.


http://themindunleashed.org/2014/10/...ists-sane.html
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colinberry1
09-05-2016, 07:41 PM
I think before anyone ridicule David Icke, people should know something about what makes him the person he is. https://youtu.be/y4UyEUldOLQ
I also believe that you should watch this documentary on Ayahuasca so you can understand what it is all about. https://youtu.be/P0ommNRJeMQ


Bill Hicks, George Carlin https://youtu.be/_sipDbRfR7Q
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Abz2000
09-05-2016, 08:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by colinberry1
I think before anyone ridicule David Icke, people should know something about what makes him the person he is. https://youtu.be/y4UyEUldOLQ
I also believe that you should watch this documentary on Ayahuasca so you can understand what it is all about. https://youtu.be/P0ommNRJeMQ

I've watched some of david icke's speeches in the past and do find that he makes some true points, however, his affinity to be absolutely convinced by hypothses useful to keep in mindwithout stating as certainty and his method of presentation is so bewildering to the uninitiated that he does come across a bit loony. I remember shaking my head and smiling at some of the weird things he touched on, but as i continued to listen, i realised that he was also speaking in allegory and that i myself would be the ignorant one if i dismissed everything he said offhand.
The shape-shifting reptillian part made me lol, but then i remembered the jinn and the fact that some humans (usually those in positions of power amongst the Godless elite) make ritual occult sacrifices and do weird pagan rituals (the owl at bohemian grove, the screaming at skull and bones etc) to harness their powers, and the fact that most secular leaders and monarchs of today are members of those weird occult ritual groups says a lot - and i decided to not be an idiot and listen carefully whilst comparing what he said with other stuff i know to be true.
There's a lot of hidden truth but the fact that he went down the alex jones path and turned to focusing on snake oil sales had me a bit concerned, last time you mentioned him i checked his site and it's filled with it.
Compare that to globalresearch.ca and i think you'll know what i mean. A person needs to have a comfortable living and travel around but to totally fill an info-site with it makes one wonder what the priority and motives are....
Still, he did mention a load of stuff that got me googling and he's definitely clued on about occultism.
Keep it up, precious info once in a while.
Reply

M.I.A.
09-07-2016, 07:48 AM
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/showsknew/
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colinberry1
09-07-2016, 12:05 PM
BEST 9/11 Documentary: If You Seek TRUTH, WATCH THIS


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...F266&FORM=VIRE
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