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startingarabic
08-21-2016, 11:16 AM
Same Sex Couple 'Blessed' With Surrogate Triplets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRrA84xGzeg
dont watch all


http://news.sky.com/story/same-sex-t...nline-10546104

:facepalm:
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 01:00 PM
Despicable.
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 01:03 PM
https://islamqa.info/en/38622
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Serinity
08-21-2016, 01:10 PM
:salam:

Tbh, I have no respect for sodomites. I feel as if once one has committed sodomy, one has lost his manhood. Sodomites just disgust me. If they have no respect for themselves, I won't have respect for them either. When I think about it, I can't stand them.

And Allah :swt: knows best.
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 01:15 PM
Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم cursed homosexuals three times in the Hadeeth.

Allaah Ta`aalaa did not punish any nation as much as he punished Qowm-e-Loot.
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 01:16 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
:salam:

Tbh, I have no respect for sodomites. I feel as if once one has committed sodomy, one has lost his manhood.

And Allah :swt: knows best.
Of course. Anyone who does it is not a man.

There are "males" and then there are "Men".
Reply

czgibson
08-21-2016, 01:48 PM
Greetings,
Originally Posted by Serinity
Tbh, I have no respect for sodomites. I feel as if once one has committed sodomy, one has lost his manhood. Sodomites just disgust me. If they have no respect for themselves, I won't have respect for them either. When I think about it, I can't stand them.
How do you know the couple in the video have practised sodomy? Not all gay people do. You don't know a thing about them other than the details in the news report. Good luck to them I say.

Peace
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 01:58 PM
Robert Mugabe always says, "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 02:06 PM
Mugabe has stood firm against gays up till today. Gays are not tolerated in Zimbabwe.

Here are some quotes from the man himself:

----------

"I find it extremely outrageous and repugnant to my human conscience that such immoral and repulsive organizations, like those of homosexuals, who offend both against the law of nature and the morals of religious beliefs espoused by our society, should have any advocates in our midst and elsewhere in the world."

"It degrades human dignity. It's unnatural, and there is no question ever of allowing these people to behave worse than dogs and pigs. If dogs and pigs do not do it, why must human beings? We have our own culture, and we must re-dedicate ourselves to our traditional values that make us human beings. … What we are being persuaded to accept is sub-animal behavior and we will never allow it here. If you see people parading themselves as Lesbians and Gays, arrest them and hand them over to the police!"

---------------

"The Zimbabwean government has made it a criminal offense for two people of the same sex to hold hands, hug, or kiss. The "sexual deviancy" law is one of 15 additions to Zimbabwe's Criminal Code quietly passed in Parliament. The sections involving gays and lesbians are part of an overhaul of the country's sodomy laws." [Wikipedia.]
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 02:18 PM
Many countries in Africa don't tolerate gays:

-------------

Algeria Any person guilty of a homosexual act is punished with a term of imprisonment of between two months and two years and a fine of between 500 and 2000 Algerian Dinars (about US$6.40–$25.60).[1]
Benin Article 88 of the 1996 Penal Code punishes homosexual acts with one to three years of imprisonment and a fine of XOF 100,000–500,000 (about US$210–$1,050).

Burundi A 2009 revision of the Penal Code made homosexual relations punishable by three months to two years of imprisonment and/or by a fine of BIF50,000–100,000 (about US$33–$66).
Cameroon Same-sex sexual intercourse is punishable by six months to five years of imprisonment, and a fine of XAF20,000–200,000 (about US$42–$419).
Central African Republic “Public expression of love” between persons of the same sex is punishable by six months to two years of imprisonment, or a fine of XOF 150,000–600,000.
Comoros Homosexual acts are punishable by one to two years of imprisonment and a fine of KMF 50,000–1,000,000 (about US$140–$2,792).
Egypt Homosexuality is punished as a “scandalous act,” with detention for up to one year and/or a fine of up to 300 EGP (about US$43).
Eritrea Homosexuality is illegal. Eritrean law states that a person who “performs with another person of the same sex an act corresponding to the sexual act, or any indecent act, is punishable with simple imprisonment.”[24] The terms “sexual act” and “indecent act” are not defined. When a person is convicted under this provision, the court has the discretion to impose a sentence ranging from ten days to three years of imprisonment.
Ethiopia Homosexuality is illegal. The country’s law states that “whoever performs with another person of the same sex a homosexual act, or any other indecent act, is punishable with simple imprisonment.”[26] The law does not provide definitions of the terms “homosexual act” and “indecent act.” Although simple imprisonment generally entails a prison sentence ranging from ten days to three years, courts are authorized to impose higher sentences (up to five years of imprisonment) in cases of recidivism.
Gambia Homosexuality is illegal. The country’s Criminal Code states that a “person who has carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature … or permits any person to have carnal knowledge of him or her against the order of nature” commits a felony known as unnatural offense, and on conviction is punishable by a fourteen-year prison term.[29] An attempt to commit an unnatural offense is also a felony, on conviction, punishable by seven years of imprisonment.[30] In addition, the Code criminalizes what it calls “indecent practices”: anyone who “commits an act of gross indecency with another” in public or in private or “procures” or “attempts to procure” another to commit such act with him/herself or with another person commits a felony, and on conviction is punishable by a five-year prison term.[31]
The Criminal Code provides definitions for certain terms. The term “carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature” includes:

  1. Carnal knowledge of the person through the anus or mouth of the person;
  2. Inserting any object or thing into the vulva or anus of the person for the purpose of stimulating sex; and
  3. Committing any other homosexual act with the person.[32]
An act of gross indecency includes any homosexual act.[33] However, the term “homosexual act” is not defined.
Guinea Article 325 of the Penal Code punishes homosexual acts with six months to three years of imprisonment, and a fine of GNF100,000–1,000,000 (about US$14–$143).

Kenya Kenya’s Penal Code criminalizes sodomy. Under this law, a “person who … has carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature … or permits a male person to have carnal knowledge of him or her against the order of nature” commits a felony, punishable on conviction by a fourteen-year prison term.[40] An attempt to commit an unnatural offense, also a crime, is , punishable on conviction by a seven-year prison term.

Lesotho Sodomy appears to be a common-law crime in Lesotho.[42] Under the country’s Criminal Procedure and Evidence Act, sodomy is one of the offenses for which a person may be arrested without a warrant.
Liberia Liberia criminalizes homosexual acts. It makes engaging in voluntary “deviate sexual intercourse” by any person a first-degree misdemeanor, an offense punishable by up to one year in prison.[44] The term “deviate sexual intercourse” includes “sexual contact between human beings who are not husband and wife or living together as man and wife though not legally married, consisting of contact between the penis and the anus, the mouth and the penis, or the mouth and vulva.”[45] A sexual contact involves “touching of the sexual or other intimate parts of a person for the purpose of arousing or gratifying a sexual desire.”[46]


Libya Homosexuality is punished under the Penal Code provision on extramarital sexual relationships. When consensual, such relationships are punished with imprisonment for up to five years.

Malawi Malawi criminalizes homosexuality. Anyone who “has carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature … or permits a male person to have carnal knowledge of him or her against the order of nature” commits an “unnatural offence,” a felony, on conviction, punishable by a fourteen-year prison term.[49] Attempting to commit an “unnatural offence,” also a felony, is punishable on conviction by a seven- year prison term.[50] In addition, Malawi criminalizes what it calls “indecent practices.” Anyone who “commits an act of gross indecency with another” in public or in private or “procures” or “attempts to procure” another to commit such act with him/herself or with another person commits a felony and is, on conviction, punishable by a five-year prison term.[51] The term “gross indecency” is not defined.

Mauritania Article 308 of the Mauritanian Penal Code punishes homosexual acts by Muslim men with death by stoning. Homosexual acts by two women are punished with three months to two years of imprisonment and a fine of MRO5,000–60,000 about (US$17–$207).
Mauritius The Criminal Code of Mauritius criminalizes sodomy, stating that “[a]ny person who is guilty of the crime of sodomy ... shall be liable to penal servitude not exceeding 5 years.”


Morocco Under the Penal Code, any person who “commits lewd or unnatural acts with an individual of the same sex shall be punished with a term of imprisonment of between six months and three years and a fine of 120 to 1,000 dirhams [about US$14.63–$121.94]
Nigeria Nigeria’s federal law criminalizes homosexuality. Anyone who “has carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature … or permits a male person to have carnal knowledge of him or her against the order of nature” commits an “unnatural offence,” a felony punishable on conviction with a fourteen-year prison term.[60] An attempt to commit an “unnatural offence,” also a felony, is punishable on conviction by a seven-year prison term.[61] In addition, Nigeria bans male persons from engaging in what it calls “gross indecency”: procuring or attempting to procure another male for the commission of gross indecency in public or private.[62] A violation of this ban is a felony punishable on conviction by a three-year prison term.[63] Furthermore, Nigeria prohibits a “public show of same sex amorous relationship directly or indirectly,” the violation of which is, on conviction, punishable by ten years of imprisonment.[64] There are some states that have adopted Sharia law and these states reportedly have imposed the death penalty for homosexual behavior
Senegal Homosexual acts are punished with one to two years of imprisonment and a fine of XOF100,000–1,500,000 (about US$209–$3,142)


Somalia Somalia bans homosexuality. Its Penal Code states that anyone “who has carnal intercourse with a person of the same sex shall be punished, where the act does not constitute a more serious crime, with imprisonment from three months to three years. Where the act committed is an act of lust different from carnal intercourse, the punishment shall be reduced by one third.”[78] In addition, a person convicted for homosexuality may be subject to what is known as a “security measure,” which is a measure imposed on persons deemed “a danger to society,” in the form of police surveillance or deportation (if the person is not a citizen).


Sudan The Penal Code of 1991 states as follows:
Section 148 Sodomy.
(1) Any man who inserts his penis or its equivalent into a woman’s or a man’s anus or permits another man to insert his penis or its equivalent in his anus is said to have committed Sodomy.
(2) (a) Whoever commits Sodomy shall be punished with flogging by one hundred lashes and he shall also be liable to five years’ imprisonment.
(b) If the offender is convicted for the second time he shall be punished with flogging by one hundred lashes and imprisonment for a term which may not exceed five years.
(c) If the offender is convicted for the third time he shall be punished with death or life imprisonment.[84]
The Penal Code also provides that anyone who carries out acts considered “indecent or inappropriate to the public morals will be punished by flogging not exceeding 40 times or a fine or both punishments.”


Togo Homosexual acts are punished by one to three years of imprisonment and a fine of TZS100,000–500,000 (about US$210–$1,050).

Uganda Uganda’s Penal Code bans sodomy, stating that anyone who “has carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature … or permits a male person to have carnal knowledge of him or her against the order of nature” commits a crime punishable on conviction by life in prison.[94] An attempt to commit such crimes, also prohibited, is punishable on conviction by a seven-year prison term.[95] In addition, the Penal Code prohibits what it calls “indecent practices” (a term for which no definition is provided) by any person.[96]
A law adopted by the country’s Parliament on December 20, 2013, and signed by President Yoweri Museveni on February 24, 2014, criminalizes homosexuality and imposes harsh penalties for violations of its provisions.[97] Under this law, an offense of homosexuality (which includes sodomy, homosexual oral sex, or any form of same-sex sexual activity) is punishable on conviction by a fourteen year prison term.[98] An attempt to commit such an offense is punishable on conviction by a seven-year prison term.[99] Aggravated homosexuality, which includes recidivism, is punishable by up to life in prison.[100]
The recently adopted law uses broad language to ban what it calls the “promotion of homosexuality,” including the use of “electronic devices which include internet, films, [or] mobile phones for the purpose of homosexuality or promoting homosexuality;” engaging in such activity is punishable by five to seven years in prison and/or a fine.[101] If the perpetrator of this offense were a juridical person, the operating license would be lost and the person in charge would be subject, on conviction, to a seven-year prison term.[102] Same-sex marriage is a crime punishable on conviction by life imprisonment.[103]
Zambia Zambia’s Penal Code bans sodomy, stating that anyone who “has carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature…or permits a male person to have carnal knowledge of him or her against the order of nature” commits a crime, on conviction, punishable by fourteen years to life in prison.[104] Attempt, also a crime, is punishable on conviction by a seven- to fourteen-year prison term.[105] In addition, the Penal Code prohibits what it calls “indecent practices,” a term for which no definition is provided, by any person, including children under the age of sixteen.[106] When the perpetrator of the offense is an adult, he/she is punishable on conviction by seven to fourteen years of imprisonment.[107] However, if the perpetrator of this crime is a child, courts are authorized to impose only community service or counseling.
Zimbabwe Zimbabwe prohibits male homosexual conduct. A male person who, with consent, performs “anal sexual intercourse, or any act involving physical contact other than anal sexual intercourse that would be regarded by a reasonable person to be an indecent act” commits the crime of sodomy, on conviction, punishable up to one year of imprisonment and/or a fine.

Prepared by the Staff of the Global Legal Research Directorate
February 2014
Reply

زهراء
08-21-2016, 02:25 PM
It's worse when 'Muslim' boys do these abominable acts. It's becoming more common. A guy like this married a girl and they went on honeymoon. He was very distant from her and refused to even touch her. Finally she found out that he was gay. [emoji20] [emoji21] [emoji34]
Why get married and ruin someone's life?! [emoji35] [emoji24]
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 02:35 PM
Sister Abraar, you live in SA, right? Maybe you've heard of Maulana Dawood Sampson, of Cape Town.

He has some kind of "rehabilitation program" for homosexuals. He says that they've gone skew, away from the Qiblah, so they need to be turned straight again, and that's what he claims to do. I don't know if his method works or not, or what exactly his method is. Something along the lines of getting them hooked on women again...
Reply

czgibson
08-21-2016, 02:35 PM
Greetings, Huzaifah ibn Adam,

It's astonishing to see such hatred being encouraged by a "scholar". Look at the misery people like you are causing around the world:



Peace
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 02:37 PM
It is the duty of the scholar to spread such hatred. If he does not, Allaah Ta`aalaa will take him to task for not conveying the Haqq (Truth).

We convey the Haqq, regardless of who likes or dislikes it. Only Allaah Ta`aalaa matters.
Reply

Search
08-21-2016, 02:38 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)


Originally Posted by Serinity
:salam:

Tbh, I have no respect for sodomites. I feel as if once one has committed sodomy, one has lost his manhood. Sodomites just disgust me. If they have no respect for themselves, I won't have respect for them either. When I think about it, I can't stand them.

And Allah :swt: knows best.
Committing all illegal intercourse is haram (forbidden), whether that involves the straight person or the homosexual/lesbian person. And just because a person is committing a sin doesn't mean that they you must lose respect for them. Respect is the default position of a Muslim towards any person, whether that person is a sinner or a saint.

Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم cursed homosexuals three times in the Hadeeth.

Allaah Ta`aalaa did not punish any nation as much as he punished Qowm-e-Loot.
Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) did not curse homosexuals in the prophetic tradition, rather cursed the action involved, illegal intercourse, between two men. Also, I should remind you, especially as a student of knowledge/scholar, that you should be more precise with your words and also more compassionate. There are Muslims who identify themselves as having homosexual/lesbian feelings, and then they read statements like your word "despicable" in your first post as a response and then feel they have no place left for them in Islam when that is clearly untrue and feel that they are being pointed as "despicable."

Any person who asks forgiveness Allah for any illegal intercourse involved, whether in homosexuality or heterosexuality, will be forgiven, no matter how many times the person has committed the sin, as long as a person is sincere. My sheikh (Islamic teacher) once said that leaving one forbidden action is more pleasing to Allah than doing 500 praiseworthy acts. That means you as a student of knowledge/scholar should be uplifting their iman (faith) so that they have hope in Allah's mercy and encourage them to not commit illegal intercourse instead of condemning them with a blanket statement like "despicable."

Also, just because Allah saved you from committing that sin and ennobled you with Islam, doesn't mean you're any better as a human being in the eyes of Allah, and you should remember that it is Allah's Favor and Mercy upon you that you're not not committing that same sin. We recently had on IB a person who identified himself as a "homosexual" and he'd converted to Islam; I want to remind you of the hadith (prophetic tradition), "Whoever shames his brother for a sin will not die until he does it too."

Let me share with you a TRUE story about an alim (scholar) of his time aged 75 years in Damascus and in khutbah (lecture) he was constantly frightening people with Hell-fire and adhab, punishment, warning and warning, and people were frightened of his words. And what did Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) say? “Treat people with ease and do not be hard on them; give them glad tidings and do not make them run away (from Islam).” Then one day, he came to the masjid covered in a niqab (Muslim full-covering veil) and people were surprised. He addressed them that day as "brothers" when he'd never done so before and said, "O my brothers, everything that I've been teaching you all these years is wrong. What I taught you all these years is wrong - you're all going to Paradise." People were happy but perplexed. He continued, "O brothers and sisters, today I saw a dream. I saw a dream that Judgment Day came and Allah called me. Allah said, "O My servant! You warned all My servants about Hell-fire, and I am going to be with you as you were, warning them of Hell-fire, and you never spoke to them about My Mercy! My Mercy has encompassed everything! My Mercy outweighs My Anger! Where did you leave My Mercy?! Why did you leave it behind? Based on what you have done, I am going to judge you action-by-action. You were warning them of the smallest mistake, so I am going to judge you on your smallest mistake!"

What did the alim say? "I have nothing! I am praying and everything!" But then he had completely forgotten things he had done that were so small until Allah brought them to one balance and brought the good ones to the other balance, and the good ones were not heavy and the bad ones were heavier. Then Allah said to him, "I am judging you according to what you have done. You threatened My servants and I will judge you the same!" Allah brought hisamal and they vanished. "Now you deserve Hellfire. O My angels! Take him!" In the dream, he saw them taking him to the Hell-fire, and one flame from Hell-fire burned my hair and my beard completely. He screamed, "I will never repeat it! In all my Jummah khutbahs and lectures I will never mention punishment, I will only mention Mercy!" Allah said, "It is TOO LATE, take him!" And then Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) appeared and said, "O Lord! Give him to me" and the alim went to the side of Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him). When he woke up, he found that my hair, mustache, beard, eyebrows, eyelashes, all were burned off! He could even see the black marks from the Fire, so he'd covered himself with the niqab. Then he lifted the niqab and showed to everyone in the congregation and they were amazed. That was a lesson and a miracle.

Sheikh, speak of Allah's Mercy, so that you find it when you need it. Does the hadith (prophetic tradition) not say, “Allah will not be merciful to those who are not merciful to people”?
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)




Committing all illegal intercourse is haram (forbidden), whether that involves the straight person or the homosexual/lesbian person. And just because a person is committing a sin doesn't mean that they you must lose respect for them. Respect is the default position of a Muslim towards any person, whether that person is a sinner or a saint.



Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) did not curse homosexuals in the prophetic tradition, rather cursed the action involved, illegal intercourse, between two men. Also, I should remind you, especially as a student of knowledge/scholar, that you should be more precise with your words and also more compassionate. There are Muslims who identify themselves as having homosexual/lesbian feelings, and then they read statements like your word "despicable" in your first post as a response and then feel they have no place left for them in Islam when that is clearly untrue and feel that they are being pointed as "despicable."

Any person who asks forgiveness Allah for any illegal intercourse involved, whether in homosexuality or heterosexuality, will be forgiven, no matter how many times the person has committed the sin, as long as a person is sincere. My sheikh (Islamic teacher) once said that leaving one forbidden action is more pleasing to Allah than doing 500 praiseworthy acts. That means you as a student of knowledge/scholar should be uplifting their iman (faith) so that they have hope in Allah's mercy and encourage them to not commit illegal intercourse instead of condemning them with a blanket statement like "despicable."

Also, just because Allah saved you from committing that sin and ennobled you with Islam, doesn't mean you're any better as a human being in the eyes of Allah, and you should remember that it is Allah's Favor and Mercy upon you that you're not not committing that same sin. We recently had on IB a person who identified himself as a "homosexual" and he'd converted to Islam; I want to remind you of the hadith (prophetic tradition), "Whoever shames his brother for a sin will not die until he does it too."

Let me share with you a TRUE story about an alim (scholar) of his time aged 75 years in Damascus and in khutbah (lecture) he was constantly frightening people with Hell-fire and adhab, punishment, warning and warning, and people were frightened of his words. And what did Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) say? “Treat people with ease and do not be hard on them; give them glad tidings and do not make them run away (from Islam).” Then one day, he came to the masjid covered in a niqab (Muslim full-covering veil) and people were surprised. He addressed them that day as "brothers" when he'd never done so before and said, "O my brothers, everything that I've been teaching you all these years is wrong. What I taught you all these years is wrong - you're all going to Paradise." People were happy but perplexed. He continued, "O brothers and sisters, today I saw a dream. I saw a dream that Judgment Day came and Allah called me. Allah said, "O My servant! You warned all My servants about Hell-fire, and I am going to be with you as you were, warning them of Hell-fire, and you never spoke to them about My Mercy! My Mercy has encompassed everything! My Mercy outweighs My Anger! Where did you leave My Mercy?! Why did you leave it behind? Based on what you have done, I am going to judge you action-by-action. You were warning them of the smallest mistake, so I am going to judge you on your smallest mistake!"

What did the alim say? "I have nothing! I am praying and everything!" But then he had completely forgotten things he had done that were so small until Allah brought them to one balance and brought the good ones to the other balance, and the good ones were not heavy and the bad ones were heavier. Then Allah said to him, "I am judging you according to what you have done. You threatened My servants and I will judge you the same!" Allah brought hisamal and they vanished. "Now you deserve Hellfire. O My angels! Take him!" In the dream, he saw them taking him to the Hell-fire, and one flame from Hell-fire burned my hair and my beard completely. He screamed, "I will never repeat it! In all my Jummah khutbahs and lectures I will never mention punishment, I will only mention Mercy!" Allah said, "It is TOO LATE, take him!" And then Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) appeared and said, "O Lord! Give him to me" and the alim went to the side of Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him). When he woke up, he found that my hair, mustache, beard, eyebrows, eyelashes, all were burned off! He could even see the black marks from the Fire, so he'd covered himself with the niqab. Then he lifted the niqab and showed to everyone in the congregation and they were amazed. That was a lesson and a miracle.

Sheikh, speak of Allah's Mercy, so that you find it when you need it. Does the hadith (prophetic tradition) not say, “Allah will not be merciful to those who are not merciful to people”?
The story opposes the Qur'aan.

Allaah Ta`aalaa says:

نَبِّئْ عِبَادِي أَنِّي أَنَا الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ

وَأَنَّ عَذَابِي هُوَ الْعَذَابُ الْأَلِيمُ

"Declare unto My slaves, that truly, I am the Most Forgiving, the Most-Merciful. And that My Torment is indeed the most painful torment." [Soorah al-Hijr, 15:49, 50]

So we are to tell people about the Mercy of Allaah and about the Punishment of Allaah.

The Qur'aan speaks about Jannah and Jahannam; not just Jannah. So too do the Ahaadeeth.

Moreover, Nahi `anil Munkar (prohibiting evil by the hand, the tongue and the heart) is Fardh (obligatory). What you are saying negates Nahi `anil Munkar in entirety.
Reply

Search
08-21-2016, 02:57 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Let's be honest. You're not declaring unto anybody here about Allah's Mercy, least of all persons who identify themselves as homosexuals/lesbians.

The punishment of Allah is NOT for you to decide but Allah if there is to be a punishment. Allah may decide to forgive a person identifying himself as a homosexual for his 1000 acts of sodomy but may not forgive your one lie. Can you say "no" to Allah? Allah judges us as He deems fit.

There is a difference between differentiating between haqq (truth) and baatil (falsehood) and spreading hatred. Spreading hatred is the job of shaitaan, not an alim.

In this thread, there is NOT a single instance of you talking about the mercy of Allah. Please check this thread again.

And read the story again, because the story doesn't negate the Quran.

Prophet :saws: said, and I repeat herein, “Treat people with ease and do not be hard on them; give them glad tidings and do not make them run away (from Islam).”

Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
The story opposes the Qur'aan.

Allaah Ta`aalaa says:

نَبِّئْ عِبَادِي أَنِّي أَنَا الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ

وَأَنَّ عَذَابِي هُوَ الْعَذَابُ الْأَلِيمُ

"Declare unto My slaves, that truly, I am the Most Forgiving, the Most-Merciful. And that My Torment is indeed the most painful torment." [Soorah al-Hijr, 15:49, 50]

So we are to tell people about the Mercy of Allaah and about the Punishment of Allaah.

The Qur'aan speaks about Jannah and Jahannam; not just Jannah. So too do the Ahaadeeth.

Moreover, Nahi `anil Munkar (prohibiting evil by the hand, the tongue and the heart) is Fardh (obligatory). What you are saying negates Nahi `anil Munkar in entirety.
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 03:01 PM
Nabi Loot عليه السلام said to his nation:

"And (remember) Loot, when he said to his people: "Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the `Aalameen (mankind and Jinn)?

"Verily, you practice your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)."

And the answer of his people was only that they said: "Drive them out of your town, these are indeed men who want to be pure (from sins)!"

Then We saved him and his family, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind (in the torment).

And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). Then see what was the end of the Mujrimoon (criminals, polytheists, sinners, etc.)" [Soorah al-A`raaf, 7:80, 81, 82, 83, 84]


"Go you in unto the males of the `Aalameen (mankind),And leave those whom Allaah has created for you to be your wives? Nay, you are a trespassing people!"

They said: "If you cease not. O Loot! Verily, you will be one of those who are driven out!"

He said: "I am, indeed, of those who disapprove with severe anger and fury your (this evil) action (of sodomy).

"My Lord! Save me and my family from what they do."

So We saved him and his family, all,

Except an old woman (his wife) among those who remained behind.

Then afterward We destroyed the others.

And We rained on them a rain (of torment). And how evil was the rain of those who had been warned.

Verily, in this is indeed a sign, yet most of them are not believers.

And verily! Your Lord, He is indeed the All-Mighty, the Most Merciful." [Soorah ash-Shu`araa, 26: 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175]


And (remember) Loot! When he said to his people . Do you commit al-Faahishah (evil, great sin, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, sodomy, etc.) while you see (one another doing evil without any screen, etc.)?"

"Do you approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly."

There was no other answer given by his people except that they said: "Drive out the family of Loot from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!"

So We saved him and his family, except his wife. We destined her to be of those who remained behind.

And We rained down on them a rain (of stones). So evil was the rain of those who were warned." [Soorah an-Naml, 27:54, 55, 56, 57, 58]


"And when Our Messengers came to Loot, he was grieved on their account and felt himself straitened for them (lest the town people should approach them to commit sodomy with them). He said: "This is a distressful day."

And his people came rushing towards him, and since aforetime they used to commit crimes (sodomy, etc.), he said: "O my people! Here are my daughters (i.e. the daughters of my nation), they are purer for you (if you marry them lawfully). So fear Allaah and degrade me not as regards my guests! Is there not a straight man among you?"

They said: "Surely you know that we have neither any desire nor in need of your daughters, and indeed you know well what we want!"

He said: "Would that I had strength (men) to overpower you, or that I could betake myself to some powerful support (to resist you)."

They (Messengers) said: "O Loot! Verily, we are the Messengers from your Lord! They shall not reach you! So travel with your family in a part of the night, and let not any of you look back, but your wife (will remain behind), verily, the punishment which will afflict them, will afflict her. Indeed, morning is their appointed time. Is not the morning near?"

So when Our Commandment came, We turned (the towns of Sodom in Palestine) upside down, and rained on them stones of baked clay, piled up;

Marked from your Lord, and they are not ever far from the Zhaalimoon (polytheists, evil-doers, etc.)" [Soorah Hood, 11:77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83]
Reply

Aaqib
08-21-2016, 03:01 PM
Hate the sin, not the sinner.

Wise words.
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 03:07 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,



Well, at least you acknowledge that you are spreading hatred. What a thoroughly disgraceful occupation for a human being.

Peace
You see, in life you have to make a choice: You have to choose to either please Allaah, or please people.

The Ambiyaa were hated by their people. Insulted, stoned, called insane, and in many cases killed.

You can't please both. You can please some people, but not all people.

You just do your job of conveying the Deen of Islaam; those who accept it will accept it, those who will not accept it, won't. Life is very simple: you just need to put things in perspective and set your priorities straight; what's really important as compared to what isn't.

The Pleasure of Allaah Ta`aalaa is important. If, as a result of speaking the Haqq you end up being hated by people - well, it's just one of those things.

In the Qur'aan, Allaah Ta`aalaa speaks about a certain group of people who are very beloved to Him, and, one of the qualities this group possesses is - in the words of the Qur'aan:

ولا يخافون لومة لائم

"They don't fear the blame of any blamer."

Or the criticism of any critic, when it comes to doing what's right. Speaking what's right.
Reply

زهراء
08-21-2016, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
Sister Abraar, you live in SA, right? Maybe you've heard of Maulana Dawood Sampson, of Cape Town.

He has some kind of "rehabilitation program" for homosexuals. He says that they've gone skew, away from the Qiblah, so they need to be turned straight again, and that's what he claims to do. I don't know if his method works or not, or what exactly his method is. Something along the lines of getting them hooked on women again...
Yip I am from SA. That is quite interesting. I wonder what happens when they then become attracted to women. Perhaps they get married? It is actually quite scary because you wouldn't know if they are truly straight again.
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 03:12 PM
Long discussions and debates could be had about the issue, and about the "hate the sin and not the sinner", etc., etc. But what everything comes down to at the end of the day is this:

1) In Islaam, homosexuality is Haraam and the practice has been cursed (three times) by Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم.

2) If a Muslim is a homosexual (provided he doesn't believe it to be permissible), he remains a Muslim. It's not Kufr. It's a major sin. As a result, if he dies without repenting, then - like with all other sins people do not repent for - Allaah Ta`aalaa may put him in Jahannam for however long He wills, until eventually this person will come out and be admitted into Jannah.

3) If a person believes it is permissible to be gay, then he/she has committed Irtidaad (apostasy) and is no longer a Muslim.

والله تعالى أعلم

والسلام
Reply

noraina
08-21-2016, 03:55 PM
Assalamu alaykum,

Being gay, or homosexuality, it obviously forbidden in Islam, I don't think anybody is denying that. The story of the Prophet Lut (as) is an extremely powerful narrative of the gravity of that nation's sin.

And if someone is gay, or has inclinations to be so, it isn't ideal, it's not desirable, (not going to get into whether it's nature vs nurture here) but as long as they do not act upon it or commit the actual sin, it is a test, a trial for them and in this case controlling one's desires would be the same as for a straight person.

If however, they do commit such a sin based on any such inclinations, then yes it is a major sin, but Allah swt can forgive any sin apart from shirk (correct me if I'm wrong here), so if they truly sincerely repent (and as humans we cannot know the state of their hearts or what is in its depths) they will be forgiven for their sins. Who knows they may only truly repent minutes before death.

So of course we hate the sin, and we would strongly encourage and tell everyone to avoid it in accordance with the commands of Allah swt, but to hate the actual person to the extent you turn away from them or do not even offer them guidance or some form of help, I don't think that would be right.

Allah swt knows best.
Reply

Little_Lion
08-21-2016, 04:23 PM
My daughter is gay. She is not a Muslim, and I am having a very hard time convincing her to convert because of the stance against gays in Islam. Only Allah knows what she will do in the future. But I do not hate her, I love her very much. It is Allah's place to judge her. I can advise her, but I will not judge her. I will always love her and I hope that as life goes on, Allah will find mercy with her so that insha'Allah she and I can enjoy Paradise together.

Personally, I would very happily marry a "gay" Muslim who has repented and wants to live the straight life. I am asexual so if they have no sexual attraction to me that is not only okay, it is better since I will feel no attraction to them anyway. ;D Besides, they are great cooks, keep a clean house, and can help me match my hijab to my clothing better than I probably can!

(The stereotyping is intended as humor, not actual stereotyping. ;) )
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,


I certainly don't hate you. I pity you. You say things like: "It is the duty of the scholar to spread such hatred." If that's what you think education is about, then you really are staggeringly ignorant.

Peace
When the truth is hated by people, then spreading the truth is considered "spreading hatred". Think about it: in the time of Nabi Loot عليه السلام, his nation probably accused him of "spreading hatred" when he used to condemn homosexuality.

If a man marries a goat, or a dog, and you tell him that such an act is Haraam (forbidden), abnormal, etc. he will accuse you of "spreading hatred and intolerance". You are being intolerant of his desire to sleep with a goat, or a dog, or a turtle, whatever it is he fancies.

Another man might marry his own daughter. If you tell him that incest is Haraam and an abomination, he will accuse you of spreading hatred and intolerance. "Is he harming you by marrying and sleeping with his daughter?" etc.

Fir`own (Pharaoh) and his people also - in their way - accused Nabi Moosaa عليه السلام of spreading hatred and intolerance. Fir`own's ministers said to the people of Egypt, "These two (i.e. Moosaa and Haaroon عليهما السلام) want to put an end to your perfect way of life." Fir`own accused Moosaa عليه السلام of spreading Fasaad (evil and corruption) in Egypt.

So that is the context and meaning behind my statement:

"If the Haqq (Truth) is hated by people, then I am happy to spread hate."
Reply

M.I.A.
08-21-2016, 04:51 PM
I think it is a strategy of war.. homosexuality is not a new invention.

it's portrayal and public image are something new.

it's literally a misdirection.

it cuts avenues of repentance for those still on the fence..

pushing others to extremes.

similarly to modern feminism..


it is an image that people are told to buy into one way or the other.

similarly to the war on terror, it in no way represents the larger population..

although at the least opinionates all of us.

to be fair I don't need to condemn any of them, if any law supercedes those of the land..

then they are imposed from higher up.


I'm not into hate speech, I don't bet..

and I'm really not into politics.

but where there is no enforcement then warnings should apply.
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 05:19 PM
Allaah Ta`aalaa says in the Qur'aan:

وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ أَنْ خَلَقَ لَكُمْ مِنْ أَنْفُسِكُمْ أَزْوَاجًا لِتَسْكُنُوا إِلَيْهَا وَجَعَلَ بَيْنَكُمْ مَوَدَّةً وَرَحْمَةً إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِقَوْمٍ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ

"And from His Signs is that He has created for you wives from yourselves, that you may find contentment in them, and He placed between you (i.e. husband and wife) Mawaddah (love; affection) and Rahmah (mercy). Indeed, therein are Signs for a people who reflect." [Soorah ar-Room, 30:21]

This perfect "holy love", mercy, harmony and contentment can only be found in marriage of a man to a woman, and vice-versa. It can never be found in the marriage of a man to another man, or a woman to another woman, or a man to a Jinn, or an animal. That true happiness won't be there.

Homosexuals have deprived themselves of experiencing one of the nicest things in life.
Reply

Abz2000
08-21-2016, 05:28 PM


It is better that people who have transgressed the bounds of Allah repent to Allah before the punishment descends upon them wholesale.
Reply

Serinity
08-21-2016, 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by Search
Committing all illegal intercourse is haram (forbidden), whether that involves the straight person or the homosexual/lesbian person. And just because a person is committing a sin doesn't mean that they you must lose respect for them. Respect is the default position of a Muslim towards any person, whether that person is a sinner or a saint.
I can not have respect for someone who have no respect for their own dignity. I am not going to tolerate such a sin in my heart. It goes against manhood to do so.
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 06:12 PM
In South Africa (SA residents will know), there are a number of gangs. The most famous gang is the "Numbers" gang. They have three sub-groups: 26s, 27s and 28s. The "religion" of the 28s is based on raping males. They claim that they're not homosexuals; they're just doing it to "assert their authority". Show that "they're the men". To become a General of the 28s, you must rape and kill the General who came before you.

Now, if a person condemns them, they'll also say you're spreading hatred and intolerance. They'll even deny any allegations of being gay. They say they're "Ndodas" (Men).

Like this:



[Papa vag vir jou = Afrikaans for "Papa's waiting for you."]



[By "lady" they're referring to the male (who doesn't belong to any gang and can't fight) that gets chucked in the cell with them.]






The 28s Gang.

Former General of the 28s, "John Mongrel" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3_RrVcAUWQ
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 06:15 PM
Homosexuality is cursed in all its forms.
Reply

noraina
08-21-2016, 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
I can not have respect for someone who have no respect for their own dignity. I am not going to tolerate such a sin in my heart. It goes against manhood to do so.
I see where you are coming from akhi. By all means do not tolerate the sin, but don't be intolerant of the sinner. As I have mentioned, if we Muslims were to turn away completely from some people out of hatred for them, then we may well be closing a door of guidance and help to them.

And I'm just saying this generally, it's good to keep in mind we should not consider ourselves superior to someone because we aren't doing something they do. Again, I am not saying tolerate their sin, and it is our duty to remind and caution, but it may well be that they could die as a better believer or Muslim than we would ever be. This wouldn't always happen, someone may never repent, but the truth is we just don't know what may come in their heart if Allah swt were to guide them.
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
08-21-2016, 07:14 PM
Definitely, we shouldn't consider ourselves superior to anyone. Allaah Ta`aalaa says in the Qur'aan:

فلا تزكوا أنفسكم هو أعلم بمن اتقى

"So ascribe not purity to yourselves. He knows best him who fears Allaah and keep his duty to Him [i.e. those who are al-Muttaqoon (pious)]." [Soorah an-Najm, 53:32]

A person can repent from any sin and later on become a Wali of Allaah Ta`aalaa. On the other hand, a pious person can become evil.
Reply

Search
08-21-2016, 07:18 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl:

Hi, sis. Hope you're doing well! There was a member called MorbidEntree who'd I think become a Muslim on IB. And here is a merged thread starting from pg. 7 of MuslimInshallah's post especially all of what MuslimInshallah says wherein you could see what had been said to him to make him consider reverting. I'm linking you to that thread to see for yourself what you can maybe say to your daughter to have her think about reverting to Islam. Basically, and this is really important, you'll need to focus on the (1) Oneness of Allah, and (2) the Mercy and Forgiveness of Allah.

InshaAllah (God-willing) when the time is right, she'll consider for herself the path to God and see Islam as being the right one for herself; the door and invitation to Islam will ALWAYS be open to her. And I'm glad that you do not reject her but love her; InshaAllah (God-willing) loving her and being kind with her and being the best mother to her will enable her to see the character of Islam. In fact, I'd say that while dawah is going to be part and parcel of how you approach her with Islam, your character and your willingness to be there for her as a merciful human being should speak to her more about what Islam is than about what you say. And of course, Islamically, if she's passed puberty, you're to act as her adviser and mentor because treating her like an adult able to make her choices is what is required of you as part of good parenting because it'll enable a healthy and positive relationship to flourish.

For all of us, sinner, saint, atheist, homosexual, whatever, Allah's Mercy is available for us to avail for ourselves, and we'll find that Mercy no matter when or how we turn to Allah. This is a long life. Let's hope for the best for all of us.

Originally Posted by Little_Lion
My daughter is gay. She is not a Muslim, and I am having a very hard time convincing her to convert because of the stance against gays in Islam. Only Allah knows what she will do in the future. But I do not hate her, I love her very much. It is Allah's place to judge her. I can advise her, but I will not judge her. I will always love her and I hope that as life goes on, Allah will find mercy with her so that insha'Allah she and I can enjoy Paradise together.

Personally, I would very happily marry a "gay" Muslim who has repented and wants to live the straight life. I am asexual so if they have no sexual attraction to me that is not only okay, it is better since I will feel no attraction to them anyway. ;D Besides, they are great cooks, keep a clean house, and can help me match my hijab to my clothing better than I probably can!

(The stereotyping is intended as humor, not actual stereotyping. ;) )
:wa:
Reply

Search
08-21-2016, 07:21 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl:

@noraina - wonderful posts! :)

:wa:
Reply

noraina
08-21-2016, 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)
:sl:

@noraina - wonderful posts! :)

:wa:
Wa alaykum assalam

Thank you habibti, just trying to remind myself first and foremost and if I can help anyone else then alhamdulillah, your posts are much more wonderful though. x
Reply

Search
08-21-2016, 07:50 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

@Huzaifah ibn Adam

Respectfully, I think you need to understand that there are different types of homosexual/lesbians. They are not all the same.

There is one group of homosexuals/lesbians who are able to marry with the opposite sex but there is one group from among them that will literally be sick at the thought of even being with the opposite gender; the latter group would rather be alone because the thought itself of being with the opposite sex is 100% so abhorrent to them that they might experience psychosomatic symptoms if they are forced to marry. This might not be understandable to you, but this is something that they experience internally within themselves. So, without knowing whether this person falls into one category or the other, marriage cannot be given as a blanket recommendation because being able to fulfill the rights of your spouse is a contractual condition of marriage. I had years ago read about a South Asian Muslim woman's story who had unknowingly married a homosexual person and this man failed to consummate his marriage because he could not even contemplate being with her intimately and due to the cultural stigma of divorce the woman's parents were constantly telling her to be patient. This Muslim woman finally divorced her husband after years of living a sexless marriage and now is happily married to another man.

Also, as you have realized, one group of homosexual/lesbian might have these feelings and believe illegal intercourse to be sin and so they do not act upon those feelings. One group of homosexual/lesbian might have these feelings and believe illegal intercourse is a sin but still commit them because their desires are too strong for them to handle. One group of homosexual/lesbian group are not sure due to lack of knowledge about whether this type of intercourse is sin and so they end up again giving into their desires. One group of homosexual/lesbian group does not consider this type of intercourse a sin and so they end up giving into their desires. You must remember that all three groups except for the last one falls under the umbrella of Allah's Mercy and Forgiveness. And even the fourth group, if persons falling within that category at one point acknowledge later that this was a sin and repent, do fall under the umbrella of Allah's Mercy and Forgiveness.
Reply

Serinity
08-21-2016, 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by noraina
I see where you are coming from akhi. By all means do not tolerate the sin, but don't be intolerant of the sinner. As I have mentioned, if we Muslims were to turn away completely from some people out of hatred for them, then we may well be closing a door of guidance and help to them.

And I'm just saying this generally, it's good to keep in mind we should not consider ourselves superior to someone because we aren't doing something they do. Again, I am not saying tolerate their sin, and it is our duty to remind and caution, but it may well be that they could die as a better believer or Muslim than we would ever be. This wouldn't always happen, someone may never repent, but the truth is we just don't know what may come in their heart if Allah swt were to guide them.
I know in the Quran it says to not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just and upright, for that is nearer to righteousness and taqwa.

I just can't rid my disgust and aversion for sodomy.

Let me give you an example:

If you met a murderer who murdered your family, wouldn't you feel hatred towards that person? or say a rapist, wouldn't you be disgusted at that person? Surely having hatred and animosity for what Allah hates, i.e. sodomy, is natural and should be there.

But well, One should have aversion and hatred for what is hateful to Allah. Hate and love for the sake of Allah :swt: . However this doesn't mean we shouldn't act unjustly. But we should disassociate ourselves from the disbelievers and be clear that we condemn whatever we condemn.

Can any scholar clarify "hate the sin not the sinner"? Cuz I find it natural to judge people by their deeds.. To a certain extent. I.e. having aversion and disgust for what they are doing.

I won't respect their sodomy, I will never do that. I will disapprove of it.
Reply

Little_Lion
08-21-2016, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl:

Hi, sis. Hope you're doing well! There was a member called MorbidEntree who'd I think become a Muslim on IB. And here is a merged thread starting from pg. 7 of MuslimInshallah's post especially all of what MuslimInshallah says wherein you could see what had been said to him to make him consider reverting. I'm linking you to that thread to see for yourself what you can maybe say to your daughter to have her think about reverting to Islam. Basically, and this is really important, you'll need to focus on the (1) Oneness of Allah, and (2) the Mercy and Forgiveness of Allah.

InshaAllah (God-willing) when the time is right, she'll consider for herself the path to God and see Islam as being the right one for herself; the door and invitation to Islam will ALWAYS be open to her. And I'm glad that you do not reject her but love her; InshaAllah (God-willing) loving her and being kind with her and being the best mother to her will enable her to see the character of Islam. In fact, I'd say that while dawah is going to be part and parcel of how you approach her with Islam, your character and your willingness to be there for her as a merciful human being should speak to her more about what Islam is than about what you say. And of course, Islamically, if she's passed puberty, you're to act as her adviser and mentor because treating her like an adult able to make her choices is what is required of you as part of good parenting because it'll enable a healthy and positive relationship to flourish.

For all of us, sinner, saint, atheist, homosexual, whatever, Allah's Mercy is available for us to avail for ourselves, and we'll find that Mercy no matter when or how we turn to Allah. This is a long life. Let's hope for the best for all of us.



:wa:
Jazak'Allah khair for your post, sister. It took me almost 40 years to come to Islam, and she is only 16, so I still have much hope for her. :)
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