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SAROYA
09-09-2016, 08:43 PM
Hello, salam, whichever you prefer.

I have just started a book on certain qualms I have about certain systems in the Muslim world. The first few pages are available here:

well it seems the forum rules don't let me post a link until I become a full member (I just joined) so I'm slightly stuck. Fine I'll copy and paste the text in as a message in the thread.

I was hoping that you could give me your opinions and comments on the direction in which this going.
Thank you.
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SAROYA
09-09-2016, 08:46 PM
Introduction
An Imam is a role somewhat similar to the Priest in Christianity.

I could be an Imam. You could be an Imam. Joseph Goebbels – Hitler’s propaganda minister – would probably make a fairly successful Imam. To be an Imam all you have to do is convince the person you’re talking to that you are one. That basically means memorising a bunch of Arabic phrases, putting on a bit of weight, and growing a beard– meeting stereotypes (especially when they have a statistical basis) always helps. Now, you’re going to struggle a little convincing people in highly educated regions, but fortunately for you, most of the Muslim world doesn’t qualify there. Plane ticket to illiterate Northern Pakistan and you’re sorted.
You see, there is no central authority in Islam. There is no certification– imagine there is no bar examination required to be a lawyer. The best part is that once you, with great ease frankly, pull of the Imam title, you gain a highly respected voice. The voice of God himself. God wants……what you interpret the Quran as saying.
I should point out here that very few Muslims, even those that speak modern Arabic, actually understand the Quran’s Ancient Arabic language. Just think how English has changed over the past 1300 years - it would be wrong to say that, just because we may recognise the occasional word, we understand Beowulf in Old English.

I’m sure you can imagine what a system like this allows for. For instance, there’s a fat bearded man wandering around my very own grandmother’s village, chaining six year orphans in his spare time. That is neither a joke nor an exaggeration. You see, there is no state run orphanage system in Pakistan and so he takes them in, and to stop them from running away he chains them in the Mosque gardens like farm animals – in fact he uses the same chain that is used to tie down cows. Apparently he’s a man of Allah. An Imam. Now, it’s not that my grandmother village is filled with uneducated barbarians. There would be a mob if some other villager were to even try such an atrocity. But the Imam is the exception to the rule – to a lot of rules. It seems when they come across his fat figure, their critical reasoning totally stops – like a deer frozen in car headlights. The Imam’s actions are a blind spot to them, a blind spot they don’t even realise is there. And this is all in a relatively prosperous village in the heart of Punjab, Pakistan’s wealthier and more educated region.

I want to make clear that this is not about Islamic scripture, which is relatively arbitrary when trying to explain why terrorism (or even, arguably, kindness) is so entrenched in the modern Muslim world. Do devout Christians try and burn down Las Vagas because it’s the modern Sodom and Gomorrah? Or do they use the passage:
‘Now go and completely destroy the entire Amalekite nation--men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, goats, camels, and donkeys.’ Samuel 15:3
To justify – if you interpret it in particular way – what we can only have nightmares about. Trust me when I say that reaching similarly horrific interpretations with the Quran is significantly harder. Despite this, the Islamic community seems to be the world leader when it comes to religious terrorism. Point being, to look at Scripture as the source, despite it seeming like the apparently obvious one, is to look in the wrong direction. But to look at societal systems, like how a man gets away with chaining orphans in broad daylight, is what I propose as the right one.

The first part of the book will demonstrate to you the weakness of some of the more significant systems being used by the Muslim Community. Like how Muslim’s spend hundreds of hours deluding themselves into thinking they are being educated at Koranic Schools– when in reality they gain little more than you would if you had memorized a African tribal chant (I will of course justify this rather controversial assertion). How this leads to Imam’s holding a monopoly on the word of God for a large portion of the Muslim population. How the above two facts combined with the total lack of certification or centralisation means I could convince a bunch of villagers that God wants them to blow themselves up in the local market.
The word of God, or rather the incentive of gaining Heaven and avoiding Hell, was used by men in the Vatican, by Rome, to chain Europe for well over a thousand years – all without a single soldier. Faith replaced Rome’s legions. So trust me when I say it’s a powerful tool – a tool freely available in the Muslim world to exploit.

In the second part I will try, in my arrogance, to propose a potentially feasible solution to the problem of how to get mass certification and centralisation to happen. Perhaps it will be totally unviable due to one of the hundreds of unconsidered factors becoming significant, but it should at least serve as a seed for others to work upon.
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-09-2016, 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by SAROYA
in my arrogance
:قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم

لا يدخل الجنة من كان في قلبه مثقال ذرة من كبر

رواه مسلم

Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said, "The one who has an atom weight of arrogance in his heart will not enter Jannah." [Narrated in Saheeh Muslim.]
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-09-2016, 09:59 PM
Point #2: Majority of Madaaris/Darul Ulooms/Jaami`aat in the Arab world as well as in South Africa have exams which the students pass before they are given their certificate and awarded the title of "Maulana" - if they have passed the `Aalim Faadhil course - or "Mufti" if they have passed the Iftaa course. Only once they have passed the required exams will they be given the M.A. in Arabic and Islaamic Studies.

Pakistan is not the world, so the actions and goings on of Pakistan and some individuals in Pakistan do not reflect the rest of the world. Pakistan is one country. A country which used to be part of India until 1947.
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jabeady
09-09-2016, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by SAROYA
Do devout Christians try and burn down Las Vagas because it’s the modern Sodom and Gomorrah? Or do they use the passage:
‘Now go and completely destroy the entire Amalekite nation--men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, goats, camels, and donkeys.’ Samuel 15:3
They used to. Rather than "Allahu Akbar!" they would yell "Deus volit!" (God wills it!). Later on, they burned alive thousands of innocent women (and cats) while reciting Exodus 22:18, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

There's lots more, but your apparent central thesis, that a decentralized religion is prone to abuse, seems to have a few holes in it.
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SAROYA
09-09-2016, 10:28 PM
Yes, you are absolutely correct. There are parts of the world that do require a degree of certification. However, it is also undeniable that, especially in rural areas, no local Imam is required to have one. No villager requires them to be qualified by some authority. It is not just Pakistan - that was an example, this is the case all across the planet. Furthermore, despite what you may want to believe, these Imams DO give advice to the people. Polio returned because several Imams and other religious leaders declared the vaccines were a plot by the World Health Organisation to poison Muslim children. Now were struggling with that.

I know it hurts to accept that horrible people exist, but they do. These people DO act as religeous leaders. It why we Islamist movements like Boko Haram and ISIS exist. Like it or not, there is no authority to say that they AREN'T muslims.

You may have heard of the rogue catholic priests who were involved in child abuse scandals. Note that I use the word rogue, as do the media, to describe them. This is because there is a very clear authority on what it is to be a Catholic Priests (who are all, btw, required to have a University degree in MEDC's and at least have to pass a whole array of certification outside). When the vatican says it's not cool to rape children the world knows where the religion stands.

Like I said, there are certain requirements for certain titles, Imam isn't one of them. You could very much become an Imam in a large portion of the Muslim world.


Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
Point #2: Majority of Madaaris/Darul Ulooms/Jaami`aat in the Arab world as well as in South Africa have exams which the students pass before they are given their certificate and awarded the title of "Maulana" - if they have passed the `Aalim Faadhil course - or "Mufti" if they have passed the Iftaa course. Only once they have passed the required exams will they be given the M.A. in Arabic and Islaamic Studies.

Pakistan is not the world, so the actions and goings on of Pakistan and some individuals in Pakistan do not reflect the rest of the world. Pakistan is one country. A country which used to be part of India until 1947.
Reply

SAROYA
09-09-2016, 10:31 PM
Right, so why don't you do your duty and a Muslim and help me out here - instead of posting a message that does nothing other than declare a situation. Try and resolve it.

Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
:قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم

لا يدخل الجنة من كان في قلبه مثقال ذرة من كبر

رواه مسلم

Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said, "The one who has an atom weight of arrogance in his heart will not enter Jannah." [Narrated in Saheeh Muslim.]
Reply

SAROYA
09-09-2016, 10:38 PM
Why do you think that. Do you not agree that a decentralized religion, combined with a lack of certification means bad people can take up trusted people. Why would that not happen? How do you think the Imams that declared the polio vaccines as some conspiracy to kill Muslim children got to the authoritative positions they are in.

Also, when I said the quoted statement, I did not say that religion isn't used as an EXCUSE to act in particular ways. What I am saying is that most terrorism etc isn't exactly advocated by the Quran. The Quran can be manipulated to fit the problem, you can use scripture to justify what you already want to do. Often your interpretation is very much what you yourself want to believe about the book.

Originally Posted by jabeady
They used to. Rather than "Allahu Akbar!" they would yell "Deus volit!" (God wills it!). Later on, they burned alive thousands of innocent women (and cats) while reciting Exodus 22:18, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

There's lots more, but your apparent central thesis, that a decentralized religion is prone to abuse, seems to have a few holes in it.
Reply

SAROYA
09-09-2016, 10:41 PM
Also, do note that TO SAY YOU ARE ARROGANT IS VERY MUCH THE OPPOSITE OF BEING ARROGANT. There are certain statements you add to be polite to those who may oppose you. To say you would welcome a fair opposing argument. You have successfully ruined a phrase said in good will.

Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
:قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم

لا يدخل الجنة من كان في قلبه مثقال ذرة من كبر

رواه مسلم

Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said, "The one who has an atom weight of arrogance in his heart will not enter Jannah." [Narrated in Saheeh Muslim.]
Reply

SAROYA
09-09-2016, 11:10 PM
Hold your horses old chap. Just because there are other people out there being inhumane DOES NOT MEAN THEY JUSTIFY CERTAIN OTHER GENTLEMENS ACTIONS. We do not forgive all the other War criminals out there because they are outranked by the Kim Jong-whatever. Injustice is not relative to what society around you may be doing. It is not okay to shoot someone just because that is the going trend. This reminds of the Elizabethan Era when Pirates would be brought under Her majesty's wing - as long as they looted from foreign nations it wasn't to be considered piracy. What you propose is that just because so and so is doing such and such we ignore the crimes of another.

Forgive me for altering the below quotation, it's just that as I'm a new member the forum does not let me post links.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
For the past hundred years.....buring children, cattle.......the imam?

Coming to some unrepentant kaafir majority cities soon inshaAllah as a just reward for defying the signs of Allah and unjustly killing and torturing those who believe in Allah, enjoin the right and forbid the wrong. A just recompense.
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Abz2000
09-09-2016, 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by SAROYA
Hold your horses old chap. Just because there are other people out there being inhumane DOES NOT MEAN THEY JUSTIFY CERTAIN OTHER GENTLEMENS ACTIONS. We do not forgive all the other War criminals out there because they are outranked by the Kim Jong-whatever. Injustice is not relative to what society around you may be doing. It is not okay to shoot someone just because that is the going trend. This reminds of the Elizabethan Era when Pirates would be brought under Her majesty's wing - as long as they looted from foreign nations it wasn't to be considered piracy. What you propose is that just because so and so is doing such and such we ignore the crimes of another.

Forgive me for altering the below quotation, it's just that as I'm a new member the forum does not let me post links.
You will be dealt with justly along with those you love to live amongst. Blame yourselves.
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SAROYA
09-09-2016, 11:42 PM
You should note that that sounds very much like a threat. Not very pro peace and love now is it.

Originally Posted by Abz2000
You will be dealt with justly along with those you love to live amongst. Blame yourselves.
Reply

Search
09-10-2016, 12:59 AM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

Yeah, I like what you've written in post #2 so far. But I don't quite understand the direction in which you're trying to go as a whole: What is the exact purpose or central thesis of this book? Are you trying to just highlight abuses on account of Islam existing as a decentralized religion in the modern world? Or do you want to go deeper into causes? Or are you offering solutions? Also, I'd advise you to include ahadith on corruption of people of knowledge in the Last Days, that is scholars, and imams, so as to bolster your argument.

Also, I'd omit the use of "fat" in the sentence, "It seems when they come across this fat figure, their critical reasoning totally stops [...]"

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

Originally Posted by SAROYA
Introduction

[. . .]
Reply

Zafran
09-10-2016, 01:12 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
You will be dealt with justly along with those you love to live amongst. Blame yourselves.
coming from a guy who loves blaming the west - good job of derailing thread with your procrastinating videos.
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jabeady
09-10-2016, 01:51 AM
Originally Posted by SAROYA
Why do you think that. Do you not agree that a decentralized religion, combined with a lack of certification means bad people can take up trusted people. Why would that not happen?
I'm not saying it wouldn't, I'm just saying a decentralized religion is not necessarily the problem. You can have corruption in any social structure; all that's required is a receptive audience and someone to take advantage. What makes the audience receptive can be ignorance, fear, desperation, etc. The person who takes advantage might do so either out of honest or dishonest motives.

How do you think the Imams that declared the polio vaccines as some conspiracy to kill Muslim children got to the authoritative positions they are in.
It was a certified British gastroenterologist and medical researcher that in 1988 convinced half the western world that childhood vaccines are responsible for autism. That belief still exists. The British medical profession is extremely centralized and governed, but anybody can go rogue.

Also, when I said the quoted statement, I did not say that religion isn't used as an EXCUSE to act in particular ways. What I am saying is that most terrorism etc isn't exactly advocated by the Quran. The Quran can be manipulated to fit the problem, you can use scripture to justify what you already want to do. Often your interpretation is very much what you yourself want to believe about the book.
Atheists have been saying that about religion in general, for years. It's a valid point, but it's neither news nor is it unique to Islam.
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Abz2000
09-10-2016, 01:25 PM
Since my relevant posts have been deleted on the request of trolls who came in to subvert the conversation via baiting and provocation, with the original abusive post itself worthy of being moved to trash and my remaining posts having been restructured to look out of context, i feel it is impossible to positively contribute in such a fraudulent atmosphere and am hereby retiring from this forum.
Peace to those who follow Allah's guidance.
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Scimitar
09-10-2016, 01:52 PM
we live in troubling times - Soraya has aired her issues with Pakistan and Islam - and is writing a book - no doubt it will be another bestseller simply because it speaks negatively about Islam and Muslims - a sure fire way to garner attention and fame under the pretense that she "cares" lol.

Truth is, if she really did care, she'd not write this book lol and instead do something about the injustice in her locality. But no - she'll write a book, selling her religion for a pittance.

Originally Posted by SAROYA
Hello, salam, whichever you prefer.
Let's be honest, you prefer "hello".

Scimi
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SAROYA
09-10-2016, 02:07 PM
I should probably mention now - this book will be totally non-profit. I thought I made clear when I said that the book isn't about scripture that it wasn't about Islam. It does highlight certain troubles in the Muslim World. Perhaps I should post the first chapter, so the generalized statements made in the introduction become slightly more solidified. I will do this in the subsequent post.

Originally Posted by Scimitar
we live in troubling times - Soraya has aired her issues with Pakistan and Islam - and is writing a book - no doubt it will be another bestseller simply because it speaks negatively about Islam and Muslims - a sure fire way to garner attention and fame under the pretense that she "cares" lol.

Truth is, if she really did care, she'd not write this book lol and instead do something about the injustice in her locality. But no - she'll write a book, selling her religion for a pittance.



Let's be honest, you prefer "hello".

Scimi
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SAROYA
09-10-2016, 02:08 PM
Part 1: The problem
The Koranic School

If you search into YouTube 'the Quran', almost all the initial results will focus on its Arabic recitation. If you were to click on them you would find yourself listening to a totally incomprehensible, although mesmerising, sound. Listening to these you will be simply appreciating the audible rhythmic prose. You aren't going to get any hints at the message. Suppose I played this recitation to you two hours every day, throughout your childhood, for several years. Let’s also imagine I teach you the phonetic sounds of each letter.
Now, after hundreds of hours, perhaps even thousands (dependent on how quickly you learn to influence decisions effecting kid you) would you, looking back, think that those hours taught you anything, anything whatsoever, about how God wants you to behave. For all you know the Arabic nonsense could have been ordering you to become the next Jack the Ripper. If our actual school system was changed to run anything like that, say Literature is on Homer's Epics in their original form (but Ancient Greek isn't taught, just the phonetic sounds), we would lynch the education secretary. We would be horrified that such a waste of time was even suggested. So why do Muslims parents feel content with this system when it comes to teaching their children about Allah's message? Why do Koranic schools remain as the backbone of Islamic education?

At these Koranic Schools, generally hidden at your local mosque, children drudge through the described process. They then spend years working on and refining the precise pronunciation of the words. After blabbing the passages several times, reciting (to use ‘reading’ is to imply understanding) and then re-reciting the Quran, they get to move onto the next stage - memorisation. Now they will precisely memorise the entire book. Precision is key - and the Koranic School will spend countless hours making sure you know the exact place of each and every noise - they are still senseless, just this time you know the order they come in off by heart.

Not only is the Muslim community content with this excuse for an education, it seems they are proud it. There are recitation tournaments where Muslims from all across the world compete - attracting hundreds of thousands of viewers. In Iran the memorisation of the Quran gets you a University Degree. Outside, the act gains you a highly respected title of 'Hafiz'.
Quite frankly I had always found this entire cultural value on the act of memory, let alone memorising something in another language, belonging to a society that has yet to discover the magic of using writing as a means of preserving information - I was right.

This obsession has its roots in how the Quran was initially transmitted. The message was revealed by the Prophet Mohammed in a disjointed manner, meaning his audiences varied. Whichever of his companions was there would mechanically and precisely memorise the message. It was commonplace at the time to use memory as a means of storing information. There is some debate upon whether or not scribes were also occasionally used to transcribe the revelations, but, in either case, it was not the predominant method – the Quran was initially preserved in the form of Human Memory.
Muslims today have glorified that process of etching the noises of the Quran onto their neural networks. The fact that the original memorisers actually understood what was being said and were doing it to preserve the information, making their actions very different to the pointless act being committed now, seems to have little effect. The tradition has become quite independent from the original purpose, somewhat like Christmas has done in the West.
I accept that it is all rather romantic, it apparently shows great devotion to God. You glimpse a similar sort of reasoning when you think about why we may give a useless, but expensive, object as a gift instead of hard cash. But this gift costs an education. It allows Muslim parents to delude themselves into thinking that their children are understanding Islam. In turn they themselves feel less inclined to actually teach their kids the meaning of the text - which they most probably don't themselves know or understand. Also, it is far harder to teach and work with the meaning of the text than it is to do the same with the phonetic sounds. Is it not just so much easier, as well as cheaper, to deceive yourself into seeing intellectual value in the easier of the two options?
Far worse than the immediate consequence of being ignorant is the fact that this education system fails to counter a knowledge monopoly, held onto by Imams. The entire situation reminds one of Catholic Priests in Medieval Europe, a time when Christianity hid behind Latin mumblings.
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SAROYA
09-10-2016, 02:22 PM
I am trying to do all three of the things you mentioned. I have put in the first little section as well - the focus of which is on the Koranic School. I will then go on to discuss the lack of emphasis on critique and reasoning advocated by so many in the community. We must remember that there is a death warrant Salman Rushdie for WRITING A BOOK on the satanic verses. The punishment for apostasy is death in many parts of the Muslim world. Critique is outright prohibited. After that I study the educations of our Mulana's etc - the ones who do get the relevant qualification. There was a world bank report done a few years ago on it and the results are worrying. You will find that in a large part of the world these qualified scholars spend ten years learning about the economics, politics and philosophy from JUST the pre 1300 era. Infact the only see a very limited amount. I would recommend giving it a read - I still can't post links, but just google something like 'World Bank Islamic Education Report'

Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

Yeah, I like what you've written in post #2 so far. But I don't quite understand the direction in which you're trying to go as a whole: What is the exact purpose or central thesis of this book? Are you trying to just highlight abuses on account of Islam existing as a decentralized religion in the modern world? Or do you want to go deeper into causes? Or are you offering solutions? Also, I'd advise you to include ahadith on corruption of people of knowledge in the Last Days, that is scholars, and imams, so as to bolster your argument.

Also, I'd omit the use of "fat" in the sentence, "It seems when they come across this fat figure, their critical reasoning totally stops [...]"

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
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sister herb
09-10-2016, 05:26 PM
I think it´s important to create discussion and questioning things. Others may disagree with you but sometimes it´s important to think all these matters once again. Not only because they would to be wrong but because we would understand them better. People may feel discomfort about what you write and disagree with you but of my mind it´s important anyways. Just same how much you´ll face criticism in here or else places, don´t stop thinking and writing.

Good luck to you.
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-11-2016, 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by SAROYA
the Arabic nonsense
Referring to the Qur'aan in this manner is Kufr and Irtidaad (apostasy).

Do not dupe yourself into believing that by insulting Islaam and licking the backsides of the Kuffaar you have become an "intellectual" who can "bring Islaam into the modern era and make it relevant". That idea itself is Kufr. Islaam was perfected over 1,400 years ago.
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500yardsoffo
09-11-2016, 11:53 PM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
:قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم

لا يدخل الجنة من كان في قلبه مثقال ذرة من كبر

رواه مسلم

Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said, "The one who has an atom weight of arrogance in his heart will not enter Jannah." [Narrated in Saheeh Muslim.]
Maybe not relevent ..but what do u think is arrogance?
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-11-2016, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by 500yardsoffo
Maybe not relevent ..but what do u think is arrogance?
Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said:
الكبر بطر الحق وغمط الناس

"Arrogance is rejecting the truth and looking down on people."

If a person feels that he is greater than other people (like how Iblees felt he was greater than Nabi Aadam عليه السلام), for example, then this is Kibr (arrogance).
Reply

M.I.A.
09-13-2016, 01:51 PM
Originally Posted by SAROYA
Introduction
An Imam is a role somewhat similar to the Priest in Christianity.

I could be an Imam. You could be an Imam. Joseph Goebbels – Hitler’s propaganda minister – would probably make a fairly successful Imam. To be an Imam all you have to do is convince the person you’re talking to that you are one. That basically means memorising a bunch of Arabic phrases, putting on a bit of weight, and growing a beard– meeting stereotypes (especially when they have a statistical basis) always helps. Now, you’re going to struggle a little convincing people in highly educated regions, but fortunately for you, most of the Muslim world doesn’t qualify there. Plane ticket to illiterate Northern Pakistan and you’re sorted.
You see, there is no central authority in Islam. There is no certification– imagine there is no bar examination required to be a lawyer. The best part is that once you, with great ease frankly, pull of the Imam title, you gain a highly respected voice. The voice of God himself. God wants……what you interpret the Quran as saying.
I should point out here that very few Muslims, even those that speak modern Arabic, actually understand the Quran’s Ancient Arabic language. Just think how English has changed over the past 1300 years - it would be wrong to say that, just because we may recognise the occasional word, we understand Beowulf in Old English.

I’m sure you can imagine what a system like this allows for. For instance, there’s a fat bearded man wandering around my very own grandmother’s village, chaining six year orphans in his spare time. That is neither a joke nor an exaggeration. You see, there is no state run orphanage system in Pakistan and so he takes them in, and to stop them from running away he chains them in the Mosque gardens like farm animals – in fact he uses the same chain that is used to tie down cows. Apparently he’s a man of Allah. An Imam. Now, it’s not that my grandmother village is filled with uneducated barbarians. There would be a mob if some other villager were to even try such an atrocity. But the Imam is the exception to the rule – to a lot of rules. It seems when they come across his fat figure, their critical reasoning totally stops – like a deer frozen in car headlights. The Imam’s actions are a blind spot to them, a blind spot they don’t even realise is there. And this is all in a relatively prosperous village in the heart of Punjab, Pakistan’s wealthier and more educated region.

I want to make clear that this is not about Islamic scripture, which is relatively arbitrary when trying to explain why terrorism (or even, arguably, kindness) is so entrenched in the modern Muslim world. Do devout Christians try and burn down Las Vagas because it’s the modern Sodom and Gomorrah? Or do they use the passage:
‘Now go and completely destroy the entire Amalekite nation--men, women, children, babies, cattle, sheep, goats, camels, and donkeys.’ Samuel 15:3
To justify – if you interpret it in particular way – what we can only have nightmares about. Trust me when I say that reaching similarly horrific interpretations with the Quran is significantly harder. Despite this, the Islamic community seems to be the world leader when it comes to religious terrorism. Point being, to look at Scripture as the source, despite it seeming like the apparently obvious one, is to look in the wrong direction. But to look at societal systems, like how a man gets away with chaining orphans in broad daylight, is what I propose as the right one.

The first part of the book will demonstrate to you the weakness of some of the more significant systems being used by the Muslim Community. Like how Muslim’s spend hundreds of hours deluding themselves into thinking they are being educated at Koranic Schools– when in reality they gain little more than you would if you had memorized a African tribal chant (I will of course justify this rather controversial assertion). How this leads to Imam’s holding a monopoly on the word of God for a large portion of the Muslim population. How the above two facts combined with the total lack of certification or centralisation means I could convince a bunch of villagers that God wants them to blow themselves up in the local market.
The word of God, or rather the incentive of gaining Heaven and avoiding Hell, was used by men in the Vatican, by Rome, to chain Europe for well over a thousand years – all without a single soldier. Faith replaced Rome’s legions. So trust me when I say it’s a powerful tool – a tool freely available in the Muslim world to exploit.

In the second part I will try, in my arrogance, to propose a potentially feasible solution to the problem of how to get mass certification and centralisation to happen. Perhaps it will be totally unviable due to one of the hundreds of unconsidered factors becoming significant, but it should at least serve as a seed for others to work upon.
beowulf?

everything has its time.. it's beginning and it's end.

it's an organised anarchy.


....Maybe the imam was being ironic?

you notice these chains huh?


...but probably not.

Maybe he keeps the dissenting voices chained?

the dissenting actions chained?

maybe he keeps the critics and the naysayers chained...


Maybe one day someone comes along.. and all he see's is children..

and they turn out to be just so.


I just watched kubo and the two strings :)


so take your place, amongst the fans...the critics..those that would support or oppose..

Allah swt needs nothing and no one.

we are all things to all people.



...for a while.


achilles it ain't.


but most things need inspiration.. from characatures of people or situations or understandings..

everything has its time.


and I remember this line.

peace be upon him, the day he was born the day he died and the day he will be resurrected again.


the world gives compulsion to act..

your very own set of chains.


may Allah swt lead us to good character..

whatever that means.
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-13-2016, 02:16 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
beowulf?

everything has its time.. it's beginning and it's end.

it's an organised anarchy.


....Maybe the imam was being ironic?

you notice these chains huh?


...but probably not.

Maybe he keeps the dissenting voices chained?

the dissenting actions chained?

maybe he keeps the critics and the naysayers chained...


Maybe one day someone comes along.. and all he see's is children..

and they turn out to be just so.


I just watched kubo and the two strings :)


so take your place, amongst the fans...the critics..those that would support or oppose..

Allah swt needs nothing and no one.

we are all things to all people.



...for a while.


achilles it ain't.


but most things need inspiration.. from characatures of people or situations or understandings..

everything has its time.


and I remember this line.

peace be upon him, the day he was born the day he died and the day he will be resurrected again.


the world gives compulsion to act..

your very own set of chains.
Your messages remind me of Yoda.
Reply

M.I.A.
09-13-2016, 02:50 PM
ah, you wait so long to talk about religion and when you finally do.

..sounds like your talking about money.

go figure.


I suppose you would have to be a fool to come here.

hard to keep any humanity in a world of winning and losing.

...it must be the only reason they keep orphan children in chains.


*my preciousess.
Reply

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