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Kiro
09-24-2016, 11:44 AM
Huzzy don't do that thing that you did last time lol
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500yardsoffo
09-24-2016, 11:59 AM
And some Hadiths too please.
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Kiro
09-24-2016, 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by 500yardsoffo
And some Hadiths too please.
there is already enough of those

there is a whole load of hadiths complied in a thread

I think it is hadeeth a day
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500yardsoffo
09-24-2016, 12:37 PM
Originally Posted by Kiro
there is already enough of those

there is a whole load of hadiths complied in a thread

I think it is hadeeth a day
Thanks. I'm going to search it.
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Kiro
09-24-2016, 01:06 PM
lectuuuures and stories
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Kiro
09-24-2016, 05:02 PM
you can do it
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-24-2016, 06:20 PM
If you're looking for stories, Akhi, then I have an excellent Kitaab to recommend:

Ash-Shifaa by Qaadhi `Iyyaadh al-Maaliki رحمة الله عليه.

As for lectures: I will try to post when I find some good ones, In Shaa Allaah.
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Samiun
09-24-2016, 06:27 PM
:sl: Anything with Sh. Hamza Yusuf is always great



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Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-24-2016, 07:04 PM
The ideology of Hamza Yusuf is different to that of Ahlus Sunnah wal-Jamaa`ah.

Many of his beliefs and many of the things he says contradict Islaam. For example, his statement that not a single time when the word "Jihaad" is used in the Qur'aan does it have a military meaning: That is false. Open any Kitaab of Tafseer (Jalaalayn, Ibn Katheer, Fat-hul Qadeer, Raazi, Rooh-ul-Ma`aani, Tabari, Durr-ul-Manthoor, etc.) and you will find the exact opposite mentioned.

He also claims that Sharee`ah can no longer be applied in today's times. This is, in essence, rejection of the Sharee`ah which Allaah Ta`aalaa had revealed for all time, and obviously, rejecting anything of Islaam is Kufr.

He refers to the firefighters who pulled people out from the World Trade Center as being "Mujaahideen". How on earth can a person make a statement like that? You are referring to Kuffaar as "Mujaahideen"? The core of any `Ibaadah - Jihaad, Salaah, Zakaah, Sawm, Hajj - is Imaan in Allaah Ta`aalaa. Tawheed. If it is missing, then the person is not a Musalli, or a Saa'im, or a Hajji, or a Mujaahid. Here, he is referring to Christians and Atheists as "Mujaahideen" and that what they are doing is "Jihaad". The Kufr of this statement is apparent. You cannot twist Islaam and alter the Qur'aan to make people happy. Jihaad is what Allaah Ta`aalaa has said is Jihaad. You cannot twist the meaning of it into something that the White House likes and will be pleased with. We worship ALLAAH, not America.

Another terribly deviant and Kufr belief of his is that the pleasures of Jannah is "allegorical". This belief contradicts the ENTIRE Ahlus Sunnah wal-Jamaa`ah for 1,437 years. There is Ijmaa` that the pleasures of Jannah are Real, Physical, and not metaphorical. In fact, the `Ulamaa have made Takfeer (branded as a Kaafir) the one who claims that Jannah is metaphysical or that its pleasures are allegorical.

These are not "minor" mistakes.

Again, he refers to the firefighters who died in the World Trade Center as being "Shuhadaa" (Martyrs). A Kaafir cannot EVER be a "Shaheed". How in the world can any person make a statement like this?? ONLY a Muslim can be a "Shaheed"! A Shaheed is a Jannati! According to his logic, if the firefighters are Shuhadaa like he claimed, despite them being Christians, Atheists and whatever else, then they are "Jannatis"! Wal-`Iyaadhu Billaah!

These are just some of the beliefs he has which contradicts Ahlus Sunnah wal-Jamaa`ah. He was also known as the "White House Imaam". He rubs shoulders with Kuffaar who oppress and murder innocent Muslims around the world. Wallaahi, he will answer on the Day of Qiyaamah for that.

In addition to this is his support for Bid`aat (innovations) such as Milaad, etc.

Do not listen to Hamza Yusuf.
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-24-2016, 07:14 PM
He said:

03:25 CD 6-7:

"…people that love to fight are pathologically unwell. They are sick people, there are people like that!"

Now compare this statement of his with what Allaah Ta`aalaa says in the Qur'aan:

"Say: If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your friends; the wealth that you have gained; the commerce in which you fear a decline: or the dwellings in which you delight - are more beloved to you than Allaah and His Rasool, and Jihaad (physically fighting) in His Path - then wait until Allaah brings about His Decision (i.e. `Adhaab): and Allaah guides not the Faasiqoon (transgressing, rebellious sinners)."

And this Hadeeth of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم:

“`Abd-ur-Rahmaan ibn Ibraaheem ad-Dimashqiyy narrated to us, Bishr ibn Bakr narrated to us, ibn Jaabir narrated to us, Abu `Abd-is-Salaam narrated to me from Thowbaan that he said, Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said: “The people will soon summon one another to attack you as people when eating invite others to share their dish.

Someone asked: Will that be because of our small numbers at that time? He (Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم) replied:


No, you will be numerous at that time; but you will be scum and rubbish like that carried down by a torrent, and Allaah will remove the fear of you from the hearts of your enemy, and cast Wahn into your hearts.

Someone asked:


What is Wahn, Yaa Rasoolallaah? He replied: Love of the Dunyaa, and hatred of death. {Hubb-ud-Dunyaa wa Karaahiya-tul-Mowt.** [Narrated in Sunan Abi Daawood.]”


In another Riwaayat it appears:


{Hubb-ud-Dunyaa wa Karaahiya-tul-Aakhirah.**


“Love of the Dunyaa and hatred of the Aakhirah.”


And finally, a third Riwaayat:


{Hubb-ud-Dunyaa wa Karaahiya-tul-Qitaal.**


“Love of the Dunyaa and a hatred for fighting.


Decide now for yourself whether his ideology is truly in line with that of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم and Sahaabah-e--Kiraam or not.
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crimsontide06
09-24-2016, 07:16 PM
I posted a thread about a Seerah audio series http://www.islamicboard.com/seerah/1...io-series.html
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-24-2016, 07:21 PM
Also, with regards to his statement:

03:25 CD 6-7:

"…people that love to fight are pathologically unwell. They are sick people, there are people like that!"

This is why we encourage people to read Kitaabs of history like Futooh-ush-Shaam, Futooh-ul-`Iraaq, Futooh Misr, etc. Hadhrat Khaalid ibn al-Waleed رضي الله عنه, Hadhrat Dhiraar ibn al-Azwar رضي الله عنه, Hadhrat `Abdur Rahmaan ibn Abi Bakr رضي الله عنه, Hadhrat Baraa ibn Maalik رضي الله عنه, Hadhrat Raafi` رضي الله عنه, etc. - all of these Sahaabah loved "fighting". So according to this man, they were all "sick people" who were "pathologically unwell".

Islaam is against males being neutered, emasculated, spineless. Be Men.
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M.I.A.
09-24-2016, 07:22 PM
...if he's that wrong maybe he should be the chosen spokesperson for Islam by the western media.

I for one do think that all people of the book will have places in heaven.. based on gods judgement of them..

how their numbers vary i have no idea.
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Search
09-24-2016, 08:23 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

@Huzaifah ibn Adam

I have seen many refutations of Sheikh Hamza Yusuf done online and most of the times they are distortions of his positions. For example, when you give the example of him saying that Jihad is not mentioned in the Quran, this is directly contradicted by this YouTube video called Jihad of the Sword in Quran.

Secondly, there are people in our times who go on killing apostates and perceived blasphemers willy-nilly; so not applying shariah (Islamic law) when you do not have legitimate state authority is actually about knowing that extremist Muslims are misunderstanding and cherry-picking Islam. For example, Farkhunda Malikzada was killed by a mob for supposedly burning the Quran, which was later found to be an untrue rumor. Astaghfirullah. Killing a woman in a brutal way for supposedly blasphemy when she's a martyr. AllahuAkbar.

Thirdly, jihad means struggle. Tell me something who did the Quran come for as Revelation? The entire humanity. Then how can we say that the hadiths of RasulAllah :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) is only for us Muslims when Prophet :saws: had been reciting the Revelation to the pagans of Arabia? I do not see any kufr (disbelief) in his statements because they're fighting a jihad as well when they go into burning buildings trying to save lives of the innocent; to see kufr in statements that can be explained away by husn-dhann (good of opinion of others) is to not have husnn-dhann.

Fourthly, I do not know if he does believe that the pleasures of Paradise are allegorical because he's talking in this YouTube video about virgins in Paradise given to men.

No one can know when someone has died on kufr (disbelief) or iman (faith). It may be that a "seeming" kaffir has died with iman though you and I would not know that. If someone chooses to apply the hadith (prophetic tradition) "Verily, having an excellent opinion of Allah is part of excellent worship of Allah" (Sunan Trimidhi 3970) by believing that Allah would have enabled those persons to die with iman cannot be said to be in the wrong. It can take less than a nanosecond for Allah to grant any person iman before that person dies as all Allah has to say with anything is "Be" and it simply is into existence.

There is a scholarly difference of opinion on Milaad; I do not know if you know this, but awliyaAllah have been the foremost in love of Prophet Muhammad :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) and if you look deeper into the stories of awliyaAllah you'll find that they're the foremost in putting the love of Prophet Muhammad :saws: into the hearts of the people because you can only follow the one who you love anywhere and we're supposed to love Prophet Muhammad :saws: so that we come onto the Straight Path and real faith.

Genuine question: Have you ever talked to a self-confessed Daesh member? I have and more than one on another Muslim site. And yes, they do seem pathologically unwell. One member of Daesh had been saying that he enjoys killing, and he boasted about the killing. Compare that attitude to that of Sahaba (Companions) :ra: wherein their hatred and love was for Allah and so they did not fight because their nafs (ego) enjoyed killing as that would have been a satanic attitude. In fact, Ali :ra: even refrained from killing a man with his sword when that person spat on him.

The thing is that I know you mean well; but jihad has always been meant to be fought as a legitimate warfare. Currently, Salafist Islam in the case of Daesh is really about cherry-picking how to do jihad and in case you think I'm making it up, I'll tell you that I was part of a site that had many Daesh fanboys and so I was reading everything that they were posting about how they were thinking and applying the fiqh of jihad. Most of it is copy-and-paste out-of-context quotes of classical scholars with inclusion of any and all minority opinions for sake of expediency. Now, I ask you, a person of knowledge studying to be a scholar, if someone cherry-picks the most minority and obscure of opinions of everything and anything for expediency's sake justifying it with the idea of fighting jihad such as not allowing widows iddah or mutilating bodies and burning people, will that religion come out to look like Islam?

I have already decided what ideology is compatible with Islam; Islam must rise the way it began; and Daesh are part of the problem and not the solution. Just in case you think I'm wrong, I ask you what the purpose of Islam is. The purpose of Islam is to not to establish shariah or even a Caliphate as that comes but dawah, and even IslamQA has that opinion when it is a Salafi site and I myself am not a Salafi nor a proponent of that site; this does not even go into the facts of whether end-time prophecies support a rise of such Caliphate which it does not because Allah doesn't reward the unjust (i.e. Muslims) with goodness of power. Also, I've long come to the conclusion that Allah appoints leaders over us that we deserve based on the hadith of RasulAllah :saws:. Since the ummah is corrupt, unjust ones are going to be ruling over us. And anyone who tries to change that is going to be swept up in a tidal wave of tsunami of confusion; therefore, we should be patient and ask Allah to deliver us from punishment by sending us the man who could change all that with heavenly power and that is only Mahdi :as:.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
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M.I.A.
09-24-2016, 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
Also, with regards to his statement:

03:25 CD 6-7:

"…people that love to fight are pathologically unwell. They are sick people, there are people like that!"

This is why we encourage people to read Kitaabs of history like Futooh-ush-Shaam, Futooh-ul-`Iraaq, Futooh Misr, etc. Hadhrat Khaalid ibn al-Waleed رضي الله عنه, Hadhrat Dhiraar ibn al-Azwar رضي الله عنه, Hadhrat `Abdur Rahmaan ibn Abi Bakr رضي الله عنه, Hadhrat Baraa ibn Maalik رضي الله عنه, Hadhrat Raafi` رضي الله عنه, etc. - all of these Sahaabah loved "fighting". So according to this man, they were all "sick people" who were "pathologically unwell".

Islaam is against males being neutered, emasculated, spineless. Be Men.
apparently you could chuck 20k men at a field.. and the field would win!

in hindsight I think many people thought it a bad idea.. and tried not to do it again.

so if you ever have 20k manly men to spare.. chuck them at something more useful.

probably.

as for various narrations regarded in high esteem.

here is something that requires second thought.

..and remembering first.

http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/nora/html/2-216.html

it goes from dislike, hateful, repugnant and probably a few others?

..I have no idea I don't even speak Arabic!!

I admit as something other than a manly man.. I don't like fighting.

I have much respect for you, everybody gonna die!!!

...but hopefully not today.


I hope you forgive me.

honestly, when things go down its often very strange..

wouldn't wish it on anyone.


all praise is due to Allah swt.. and he needs nothing and no one.

http://corpus.quran.com/translation....ter=66&verse=6


....there ya go..

now we firefighters.

..and you know, I wish I could.

hopefully we won't be built up just to get knocked down.
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Kiro
09-24-2016, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
If you're looking for stories, Akhi, then I have an excellent Kitaab to recommend:

Ash-Shifaa by Qaadhi `Iyyaadh al-Maaliki رحمة الله عليه.

As for lectures: I will try to post when I find some good ones, In Shaa Allaah.
pleeeaaaaase nooo reading
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Serinity
09-24-2016, 09:42 PM
Jihad on the path of Allah, means that you do not act upon your nafs & ego, but upon Shariah, which means you act according to Justice and wisdom.

Someone who has not tamed his ego may in Jihad be overcome by his nafs by enjoying to kill, i.e. If I fight for the sake of Allah, but at the moment of killing my ego takes over, would it be ok for me to kill would I have fought for Allah or my nafs? my nafs, and thus one shouldn't.

If one kills kafir a because of one's nafs or one's ego enjoys it, that is NOT Jihad on the Path of Allah.

The example of Ali r.a. who when he was about to kill a kafir, and the kafir spat, Ali stopped, and didn't kill him. Why? Because if he killed the kafir, he would not have fought for Allah, but for his nafs.This shows that we do everything for the sake of Allah, and not because of our nafs.

AFAIK, in physical Jihad, the only reason the Muslims win is because of their servitude to Allah. And one should not rely one's success and victory based on numbers and power, but based upon obedience to Allah.

Allahu alam.
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-24-2016, 09:52 PM
With regards to the issue of the terms Mujaahid and Shaheed being applied to Kuffaar:

Words in Arabic have both a linguistic meaning and a Shar`i meaning. For example:

Linguistically, the word “Hajj” comes from the Arabic verb حَجَّ يَحُجُّHajja - Yahujju”; meaning, “to undertake to do a great task,” or “to undertake to go to a great place.”

Now let’s look at how the Sharee`ah (Divine Law of Islaam) has defined the word:

In his commentary on Mukhtasar al-Qudoori (The Summary of al-Qudoori in Hanafi Fiqh), “Tas-heel azh-Dharoori”, the great scholar of India, Maulana `Aashiq Ilaahi al-Barni رَحْمَةُ اللهِ عَلَيْهِ (1343 - 1422 A.H.) gives the definition of Hajj as follows:

وشرعاً هو زيارة مكان مخصوص في زمان مخصوص بفعل مخصوص

Wa Shar`an Huwa Ziyaaratu Makaanin Makhsoos fee Zamaanin Makhsoos bi-Fi`lin Makhsoos.

“In terms of the Sharee`ah (Divine Law of Islaam), it (Hajj) refers to visiting a certain place, in a certain time, and carrying out certain actions.” [Tas-heel azh-Dharoori, v.1, p.149]

So linguistically, even going to India or Pakistan to meet with some `Aalim there could be called "Hajj". But is that what Hajj is? Obviously not.

Now:

We mentioned earlier that words have both a linguistic meaning and a Shar`i meaning, and an example was given. When the Shar`i meaning of a word comes, the previous, linguistic meaning drops away. It no longer gets used. Hence, you will never find someone saying that a person who traveled to Pakistan has "gone on Hajj". That is because the Shar`i brought a new definition for the word Hajj, which is the Hajj that is well-known, travelling to Makkah Mukarramah and carrying out the Manaasik there.

Similarly, the linguistic meaning of Salaah is "Du`aa". The Sharee`ah came with a new meaning, which is the Salaah which we know, making Fajr, Zhuhr, `Asr, Maghrib and `Ishaa. If a person now comes and says that no, the "Salaah" mentioned in the Qur'aan actually means "Du`aa", and thus, all we need to do is make Du`aa five times a day - what will people say? They will say that this man is a Kaafir. He has rejected Salaah. That is because words used in Islaamic terminology must be understood according to how Islaam has defined them, not how a modern day dictionary defines them. They must be understood according to how Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم and Sahaabah-e-Kiraam understood them.

Now:

Jihaad linguistically means to "stive". However, the Sharee`ah brought a new meaning, and that is the fighting on the battlefield. Islaam brought a new meaning for "Mujaahid" and "Shaheed", and that is, "A Muslim who engages in Jihaad fee Sabeelillaah", and "A Muslim who gets killed fee Sabeelillaah". The Sharee`ah has defined the word "Mujaahid" and "Shaheed" respectively as applying only to Muslims. Never ever to Kuffaar. To say that a Kaafir is a Mujaahid or a Shaheed is like saying that a Kaafir on a diet is a "Saa'im" (someone doing Sawm), or a person travelling to America is a "Hajji", or that a Christian praying in a church on a Sunday is "performing Salaah". This is Baatil and tampering with the terminology (Istilaahaat) of the Sharee`ah.
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M.I.A.
09-24-2016, 10:40 PM
thanks, wow..

literally so much is lost on me..

that puts me in my place moreso than most replies and rebuttals..

thanks again.

the thing about being a sarky bugger is that people can't tell when your actually serious.

the amount of depth I am missing is almost made up for by my inthusiasm in being opinionated..

thankfully the Internet is not real life.
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Kiro
09-25-2016, 09:22 PM
On topoc
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Scimitar
09-25-2016, 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
He said:...
Have you tried to contact him regarding these issues? or are you just going to go by what he said in a lecture or two, given a particular context?

Scimi
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-25-2016, 10:15 PM
We judge by what is apparent. If a person does not mean what he has said or actually holds other beliefs contrary to what he has made public, then that is between him and Allaah Ta`aalaa, and he will be dealt with accordingly in the Aakhirah. But in this Dunyaa, if a person publicly comes out and says, for example, that eating pork is permissible, then we will judge him by what he himself has said.

It is not our duty to get in contact with this man. What we say is that, the apparent words and statements which he has made are in direct conflict with the Deen of Islaam, as has been pointed out.

والسلام
Reply

Scimitar
09-25-2016, 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
We judge by what is apparent.
we... judge?

Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
If a person does not mean what he has said or actually holds other beliefs contrary to what he has made public, then that is between him and Allaah Ta`aalaa, and he will be dealt with accordingly in the Aakhirah. But in this Dunyaa, if a person publicly comes out and says, for example, that eating pork is permissible, then we will judge him by what he himself has said.
I agree with this, but i've been watching Sh Hamza Yusuf Hansen now for many years and I understand that when he mentions Jihad e Akbar (The Great Struggle), this is the internal struggle one faces - not the self defence struggle or lesser Jihad as it is known.

And I believe Shaikh Hamza Yusuf Hansen is 100% correct in educating western Muslims about this nuance.

I noticed that you wrote regarding Shaikh Hamza Yusuf explaining Jihad e Akbar but you failed to mention this in your own terms as well... so from you, here, we also get only half the pie.

Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
It is not our duty to get in contact with this man. What we say is that, the apparent words and statements which he has made are in direct conflict with the Deen of Islaam, as has been pointed out.

والسلام
Nope... not to me.

I can understand and appreciate the context he delivers, and I do not see him contradicting the Qur'an or Sunnah by his statement.

Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
He said:

03:25 CD 6-7:

"…people that love to fight are pathologically unwell. They are sick people, there are people like that!"

Now compare this statement of his with what Allaah Ta`aalaa says in the Qur'aan:

"Say: If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your friends; the wealth that you have gained; the commerce in which you fear a decline: or the dwellings in which you delight - are more beloved to you than Allaah and His Rasool, and Jihaad (physically fighting) in His Path - then wait until Allaah brings about His Decision (i.e. `Adhaab): and Allaah guides not the Faasiqoon (transgressing, rebellious sinners)."
He's saying those of us who LIKE to fight... not those of us who are necessitated to fight in the way of Allah - there is a clear difference brother Huzaifah.

Those who like to fight = troublemakers

Those who do not like to fight even though it is good for them = believers.

Nuance... sharpen it dear bro. Else we slander a good mans intent in these troubling times of confusions.

It's not like we can cut open his heart to see what it contains - best we take the good and be patient with that which we remain unsure of.

Wassalaam

Scimi
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-25-2016, 10:54 PM
The narration he quotes about Jihaad-e-Nafs being the greater Jihaad; the Muhaddithoon (Hadeeth Masters) have said it is a fabrication (Mawdhoo`), while other have said it is very weak and unreliable (Dha`eef). Hence, it should not be quoted. The narration says, "We have returned from the lesser Jihaad to the greater Jihaad."

In fact, even logically a person can understand that fighting on the battlefield is the greater Jihaad, because how would that person have brought himself to the battlefield to fight if had not fought his Nafs and made the decision to sacrifice the Dunyaa and its pleasures to fight and die for Allaah Ta`aalaa? Jihaad of the Nafs goes hand-in-hand with Jihaad bil-Qitaal. The greatest place to do Jihaad of the Nafs is on the battlefield.
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Scimitar
09-25-2016, 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
The narration he quotes about Jihaad-e-Nafs being the greater Jihaad; the Muhaddithoon (Hadeeth Masters) have said it is a fabrication (Mawdhoo`), while other have said it is very weak and unreliable (Dha`eef). Hence, it should not be quoted. The narration says, "We have returned from the lesser Jihaad to the greater Jihaad."

In fact, even logically a person can understand that fighting on the battlefield is the greater Jihaad, because how would that person have brought himself to the battlefield to fight if had not fought his Nafs and made the decision to sacrifice the Dunyaa and its pleasures to fight and die for Allaah Ta`aalaa? Jihaad of the Nafs goes hand-in-hand with Jihaad bil-Qitaal. The greatest place to do Jihaad of the Nafs is on the battlefield.
In times when carrying a sword was the norm, and chopping heads off for merely offending a man - fighting with a sword would have been the easier thing to do than to take note of what filth the heart entertains, no?

And times, have changed, yet the human condition remains the same.

How do you respond to such anthropological truths regarding the time when the Prophet pbuh and his companions RA were alive?

was it difficult for Umar RA to unsheath his sword and offer to kill a man for merely offending the Prophet pbuh?

I can cite a number of examples when swords were drawn over petty matters... makes your point weak brother Huzaifah.

Scimi
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-25-2016, 11:00 PM
With regards to that narration, see the following:

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...p-Lesser-Jihad
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-25-2016, 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
In times when carrying a sword was the norm, and chopping heads off for merely offending a man - fighting with a sword would have been the easier thing to do than to take note of what filth the heart entertains, no?

And times, have changed, yet the human condition remains the same.

How do you respond to such anthropological truths regarding the time when the Prophet pbuh and his companions RA were alive?

was it difficult for Uma RA to unsheath his sword and offer to kill a man for merely offending the Prophet pbuh?

I can cite a number of examples when swords were drawn over petty matters... makes your point weak brother Huzaifah.

Scimi
Bhai, you know as well as I do that Jihaad isn't just about chopping off heads; it's about dying. We ourselves. We, who fight. We get killed. That is Jihaad, even if not a single head of any person is chopped off. If a person just sets foot on the battlefield and is killed at that instant, he is a Mujaahid and a Shaheed, even though he never killed anyone.

Thus, Jihaad was not easier for the people of those times and nor is it easier for the people of today. The people of those times (excluding Sahaabah-e-Kiraam) didn't want to die, and people of today have an ever greater hatred of death. THAT is what makes Jihaad difficult for people. It's not the killing that makes it difficult and disliked by people, bhai; it's the dying. And that hasn't changed.

That is what makes it the Greater Jihaad. That the person has made the ultimate sacrifice. He has given up his life for Allaah Ta`aalaa.
Reply

Scimitar
09-25-2016, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
With regards to that narration, see the following:

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...p-Lesser-Jihad
I see your hand, and raise you with mine :D

https://islamqa.info/en/10455

Praise be to Allaah.It was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), said to his companions when they returned from a military campaign, “We have come back from the lesser jihaad to the greater jihaad.” They said, “Is there any greater jihaad than jihaad against the kuffaar?” he said, “Yes, jihaad al-nafs (jihaad against the self).”

This hadeeth is not saheeh.

Undoubtedly jihaad against the self comes before jihaad against the kuffaar, because one cannot strive against the kuffaar until after one has striven against one’s own self, because fighting is something which the self dislikes. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Jihaad (holy fighting in Allaah’s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allaah knows but you do not know”[al-Baqarah 2:216]

The point is that jihaad against the enemy cannot take place until one strives and forces oneself to do it, until one’s self submits and accepts that.

Fataawa Manaar al-Islam by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), 2/421 Ibn al-Qayyim said: “Jihaad is of four stages: jihaad al-nafs (striving against the self), jihaad al-shayaateen (striving against the shayaateen or devils), jihaad al-kuffaar (striving against the disbelievers) and jihaad al-munaafiqeen (striving against the hypocrites). Jihaad al-nafs means striving to make oneself learn true guidance, and to follow it after coming to know it, calling others to it, and bearing with patience the difficulties of calling others to Allaah. Jihaad al-Shaytaan means striving against him and warding off the doubts and desires that he throws at a person, and the doubts that undermine faith, and striving against the corrupt desires that he tries to inspire in a person. Jihaad against the kuffaar and munaafiqeen is done in the heart and on the tongue, with one’s wealth and oneself. Jihaad against the kuffaar mostly takes the form of physical action, and jihaad against the munaafiqeen mostly takes the form of words… The most perfect of people are those who have completed all the stages of jihaad.

People vary in their status before Allaah according to their status in jihaad.”(Zaad al-Ma’aad 3/9-12)
And Allaah knows best.

Scimi
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-25-2016, 11:11 PM
Bhai, you're quoting Shaykh Munajjid. You know who he is? A Salafi scholar. He is defending what I'm saying. He is negating the "lesser Jihad" narration. It is understandable that you would get confused by his Fatwaa, because you are not aware of his `Aqeedah. He believes that fighting on the battlefield is the Greater Jihaad. He is saying that every person who fights has of course done Jihaad of the Nafs in order to get there. His decision to sacrifice the Dunyaa to go there was his "Jihaad of the Nafs".
Reply

Scimitar
09-26-2016, 12:51 AM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
Bhai, you know as well as I do that Jihaad isn't just about chopping off heads; it's about dying. We ourselves. We, who fight. We get killed. That is Jihaad, even if not a single head of any person is chopped off. If a person just sets foot on the battlefield and is killed at that instant, he is a Mujaahid and a Shaheed, even though he never killed anyone.

Thus, Jihaad was not easier for the people of those times and nor is it easier for the people of today. The people of those times (excluding Sahaabah-e-Kiraam) didn't want to die, and people of today have an ever greater hatred of death. THAT is what makes Jihaad difficult for people. It's not the killing that makes it difficult and disliked by people, bhai; it's the dying. And that hasn't changed.

That is what makes it the Greater Jihaad. That the person has made the ultimate sacrifice. He has given up his life for Allaah Ta`aalaa.
I agree, but anyone who goes to war entertains the idea that they may be killed while they intend to kill others - can't take one without the other.

Point i'm making is the same as what IslamQA promote - there are many struggles we face as Muslims, and we should check the state of our hearts before we can even entertain the idea of physical war against an armed enemy.

I am reminded of the time when Hazrat Ali RA was in Jihad on the field and an enemy combatant spat at him and Ali decided not to finish him off because he would have killed him out of anger from his "self" and not for the justice which Allah ordains...

...Point being is this - we as Muslims, have a LOOOOOONG way to go before we can even allow ourselves to entertain such foolish thoughts like "war jihad".

And so, when Shaikh Hamza Yusuf explains that "…people that love to fight are pathologically unwell. They are sick people, there are people like that!" I can wholly agree with him, because I can appreciate "nuance".

Scimi
Reply

Zafran
09-26-2016, 01:15 AM
salaam

I'll have to admit that Hamza Yusuf has been a huge influence on me, Zaid Shakir as well. There videos are good. You can find a lot of them on Youtube.

peace
Reply

Kiro
09-26-2016, 09:51 AM
Oi lads

dont derail my threads
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-26-2016, 09:54 AM
No, that is not what IslamQA is promoting. Shaykh al-Munajjid is a scholar who knows that when something becomes Fardh, there is no "checking the state of the heart" before doing it. It has to be done immediately. If a person has the money and ability to go on Hajj, it becomes Fardh upon him immediately. He can't say that he's going to first "check the state of his heart" before he goes on Hajj.

Also, people who say that you must first purify your Nafs before going on Jihaad:

This is a fallacy. It's stipulating an impossible condition with the deliberate intention of stopping something. It's like a person saying, "I'll give a Bayaan in a Masjid the day pigs grow wings and fly." You know that's not going to happen, so you make up a condition like that.

Now, anyone who has studied `Ilm-ut-Tasawwuf knows that Islaah-e-Nafs and Jihaad against the Nafs is lifelong; it never ends until the day you die. So to say a person can only go for Jihaad after he has done Islaah of the Nafs is asking for something that is impossible; the person will continue doing Islaah of his Nafs till the day he leaves this Dunyaa. If Islaah of the Nafs had been a condition for Jihaad fee Sabeelillaah, no Jihaad would ever have taken place on this Dunyaa, because no one had achieved complete purity of the Nafs before doing so. Even in the time of Sahaabah-e-Kiraam, there was a Sahaabi who fought in Jihaad and yet fell into drinking Khamr at one occasion, and was given the Shar`i punishment for it.

IslamQA is not promoting the idea that a person must first do Islaah of his Nafs before going in Jihaad. He is saying, if you read the original Arabic text and understand the Siyaaq and Sabaaq of the Kalaam, that a person's going out in Jihaad is Islaah of the Nafs. That in itself is Jihaad against the Nafs. Like we mentioned, Jihaad against the Nafs and Jihaad on the battlefield go hand-in-hand.

والسلام
Reply

M.I.A.
09-26-2016, 10:08 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect

...because thats how it works most the time.

as for physical jihad..

the number of war refugees at present is.. a lot..

maybe one day they can go back home and say this is the land where i lived...

its a field now.

...but thats ok because im from a farming family..

or something like that.


O_O ...i dont know how well prepared for war any faction or its members are.

or how level the playing field is.

but i would say that if you ever fight in your own home.. you would be careful of the furniture.

or not..


monday morning clarity.


all the forms of jihad need to be understood and practised before any physical jihad is undertaken.. if ever.


or as i say.. and you can quote me..


"most battles are won and lost a long time before any battlefield is reached."
Reply

Kiro
09-26-2016, 12:15 PM
oiiiii

post some lectures -_-
Reply

M.I.A.
09-26-2016, 12:39 PM
from part of the link i posted in the previous post.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cong...ate#Mutilation

...planting people in a field is a low yield venture..

unless they are alive..

if all you do is read then consider yourself lucky.
Reply

Scimitar
09-26-2016, 02:12 PM
Kiro, search YouTube for them lol, that's what it's there for

this is not a media platform, but one for discussion.

its called a "forum" lol

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
09-26-2016, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
No, that is not what IslamQA is promoting. Shaykh al-Munajjid is a scholar who knows that when something becomes Fardh, there is no "checking the state of the heart" before doing it. It has to be done immediately....
In the case of war jihad - don't we need an emir? khaliph? else we be like, tyrants ourselves right?

Where is our khaliph? How do we justify it today?

Scimi
Reply

Kiro
09-26-2016, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Kiro, search YouTube for them lol, that's what it's there for

this is not a media platform, but one for discussion.

its called a "forum" lol

Scimi
Be a nice neighbor Scim

you might have found something I might like so share
Reply

M.I.A.
09-26-2016, 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
In the case of war jihad - don't we need an emir? khaliph? else we be like, tyrants ourselves right?

Where is our khaliph? How do we justify it today?

Scimi
...personal responsibility.

until it is taken away..

if we have the luxury of not being under duress we should at least appreciate it.

starfleet command is 1400 lightyears away.

:|
Reply

Scimitar
09-26-2016, 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.

starfleet command is 1400 lightyears away.

:|
and they brainwashed entire generations with "space, the final frontier"...

nope... TIME is the final frontier.

And I can prove it in sha Allah.

Scimi
Reply

M.I.A.
09-26-2016, 02:52 PM
...all we need now is a flux capacitor.


cant leave me hangin.. how you going to prove it o_0
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-26-2016, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
In the case of war jihad - don't we need an emir? khaliph? else we be like, tyrants ourselves right?

Where is our khaliph? How do we justify it today?

Scimi
Having a Khaleefah is a requirement for offensive Jihaad (Jihaad-e-Talab, or "Iqdaami Jihaad"). This is the Jihaad for the purpose of expanding the dominion of Islaam. Conquering of lands for Islaam. Such a Jihaad requires there to be a Khaleefah, and a Khilaafah, etc.

However, defensive Jihaad (Difaa`i Jihaad) does not require a Khaleefah. For example, the Zionist Jews attack Palestine and start killing the innocent Muslims there; men, women and children. Killing them, bombing them, arresting them, torturing them, raping the girls, starving them, so much so that there isn't even food for the people to eat. In this case, the Palestinians do not require any "Khaleefah" in order for them to fight back. They are being attacked. Standing up and fighting the Jews is Fardh (obligatory). The Zionists are the Zhaalim invaders. Such a Jihaad is known as a "Difaa`i Jihaad" (Defensive Jihaad).

If someone attacks your family, then, the `Ulamaa have written that it becomes obligatory to defend them. Some gangsters break into your house and try to rape and kill your wife and daughters. Will a person say, "No, we can't do anything. A Khaleefah is necessary for Jihaad. We must just sit still and do nothing. Let them get raped and killed." Will any sane person say this? Obviously not. Hopefully not, at least. He will most definitely get up to defend his family. This defending of his family is obligatory upon him.

Similarly, wherever Muslims are attacked and oppressed, for them to defend themselves becomes Fardh (obligatory).

Let's say Donald Trump becomes president and decides to bomb Makkah and Madeenah, for example. Will any doubt remain in the mind of any person that Jihaad becomes Fardh-e-`Ayn and every Muslim has to stand up to defend Makkah and Madeenah?

والسلام
Reply

Scimitar
09-26-2016, 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by Kiro
Be a nice neighbor Scim

you might have found something I might like so share
If tears of joy do not manifest - the heart is cold. This is short but wow, I wish I was there in that gathering,



Originally Posted by M.I.A.
...all we need now is a flux capacitor.


cant leave me hangin.. how you going to prove it o_0
Join the whatsapp group, I shared everything in there.

I can do so again here, when "time" permits :) I have the "space" - that frontier is null and void ;)

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
09-26-2016, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
Having a Khaleefah is a requirement for offensive Jihaad (Jihaad-e-Talab, or "Iqdaami Jihaad"). This is the Jihaad for the purpose of expanding the dominion of Islaam. Conquering of lands for Islaam. Such a Jihaad requires there to be a Khaleefah, and a Khilaafah, etc.

However, defensive Jihaad (Difaa`i Jihaad) does not require a Khaleefah. For example, the Zionist Jews attack Palestine and start killing the innocent Muslims there; men, women and children. Killing them, bombing them, arresting them, torturing them, raping the girls, starving them, so much so that there isn't even food for the people to eat. In this case, the Palestinians do not require any "Khaleefah" in order for them to fight back. They are being attacked. Standing up and fighting the Jews is Fardh (obligatory). The Zionists are the Zhaalim invaders. Such a Jihaad is known as a "Difaa`i Jihaad" (Defensive Jihaad).

If someone attacks your family, then, the `Ulamaa have written that it becomes obligatory to defend them. Some gangsters break into your house and try to rape and kill your wife and daughters. Will a person say, "No, we can't do anything. A Khaleefah is necessary for Jihaad. We must just sit still and do nothing. Let them get raped and killed." Will any sane person say this? Obviously not. Hopefully not, at least. He will most definitely get up to defend his family. This defending of his family is obligatory upon him.

Similarly, wherever Muslims are attacked and oppressed, for them to defend themselves becomes Fardh (obligatory).

Let's say Donald Trump becomes president and decides to bomb Makkah and Madeenah, for example. Will any doubt remain in the mind of any person that Jihaad becomes Fardh-e-`Ayn and every Muslim has to stand up to defend Makkah and Madeenah?

والسلام
I agree with you here bro Huzaifah,

Problem is - not many know the difference, do they?

Shaikh Hamza Yusuf was 100% correct when he mentioned how if some people come to your house and aim to expel you from it, take your women and children etc - and you fight back for your property and your family - that this is defensive jihad and the whole world practices this whether they are religious or not.

Again - nuance.

You made a point of how kuffar cannot engage in jihad and slandered Hamza Yusuf for his saying that even kuffar can do jihad.

He cited an example of firefighters helping the survivors of the 911 incident - some of those firefighters were Muslim who lost their lives in the effort to save others. Why is their Jihaad accepted and not those of the Kuffar who helped to save lives and died in the process?

I believe you need to retract your statement from page one on this thread, with respect dear bro.

Scimi
Reply

M.I.A.
09-26-2016, 03:19 PM
...i hope it does not come to that.

hypothetically if it did then the muslim countries that also have that capability would be the only ones with an answer.

conventional warfare simply would not work.. would only aggravate the masses who wish to remain unblemished.

..and tarnish those already considered tarnished.

but then a moment...

what exactly do you consider yourself as?

sodom and Gomorrah did not fall until lut left (pbuh)..

and yet he was not the one to make it fall. (pbuh)

strange days.
Reply

Scimitar
09-26-2016, 03:23 PM
I have an hard time following your train of thought bro MIA.

In sha Allah you can explain in more conventional language :)

Scimi
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
09-26-2016, 03:31 PM
I maintain that the statement made by Hamza Yusuf is wrong, because he generalised saying that all of the firefighters were Mujaahideen and Shuhadaa, yet we know for a fact that a Kaafir cannot be a Mujaahid or a Shaheed.

In any case, we are derailing Kiro's thread, and he's already given me a negative rep for it, so we'll stop there.

والسلام
Reply

Scimitar
09-26-2016, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
I maintain that the statement made by Hamza Yusuf is wrong, because he generalised saying that all of the firefighters were Mujaahideen and Shuhadaa, yet we know for a fact that a Kaafir cannot be a Mujaahid or a Shaheed.

In any case, we are derailing Kiro's thread, and he's already given me a negative rep for it, so we'll stop there.

والسلام
Post a video he will be happy with and continue the discussion in sha Allah - win/win.

Bro, I have seen that lecture which Shaikh Hamza delivered and I understand the context of what he was delivering, and explained it.

You seem to see a black and white context when Hamza has painted it in full colour for us.

If a man, a non Muslim, saves the life of his fellow man - it is as if he has saved the whole of humanity... if he dies saving that life? work the rest out yourself.

And Allahs mercy transcends his wrath.

Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
09-27-2016, 12:53 PM
bump
Reply

Kiro
09-27-2016, 05:08 PM
Reply

M.I.A.
09-27-2016, 05:42 PM


...this... might take some time.

:|
Reply

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