A question on Islam's relation to earlier religious traditions

[TruthTeller]

Has anyone else here looked into the theory that the doctrines, characters, and themes of Islam were stolen from earlier Pagan traditions and then modified? After doing some research into this, it is an interesting theory with a good amount of evidence to support it, but I'm interested if anyone else has good information/other sources on this. I've found a website called **** to have a lot of evidence I can't disprove. Anyone else have any thoughts on earlier traditions connected to Islam?

[sister herb]

Within a week here just was similar discussion:

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...an#post2932291

Hopely it helps you.

[Born_Believer]

Has anyone else here looked into the theory that the doctrines, characters, and themes of Islam were stolen from earlier Pagan traditions and then modified? After doing some research into this, it is an interesting theory with a good amount of evidence to support it, but I'm interested if anyone else has good information/other sources on this. I've found a website called **** to have a lot of evidence I can't disprove. Anyone else have any thoughts on earlier traditions connected to Islam?

which characters?

In terms of doctrines and traditions, even the Prophet openly admitted to adopting some, if they were correct and true from other religions. For example ,fasting during Ashura, which the Jews used to practice became a part of our Islamic practice too because was as Muslims have a greater claim to Moses than the Jews.

[Al Sultan]

Prophet openly admitted to adopting some.

Wait WHAT????? where does it say that ? show me a Hadith,verse from the Quran,how come ?..I started that thread by the way and I kind of understood some of it.But I thought the prophet got these rituals from other prophets and maybe some of these rituals were told by Gabriel (AS) as he often came down to teach Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) the Quran...well I'm sorry but that line scares me a lot,that means that Islam has rituals from pagan-istic religions...and that Islam is a copy of pagan religions,can you explain this to me ? as i may have understood you wrong..

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[anatolian]

Has anyone else here looked into the theory that the doctrines, characters, and themes of Islam were stolen from earlier Pagan traditions and then modified? After doing some research into this, it is an interesting theory with a good amount of evidence to support it, but I'm interested if anyone else has good information/other sources on this. I've found a website called **** to have a lot of evidence I can't disprove. Anyone else have any thoughts on earlier traditions connected to Islam?

I am just curious why you don't ask this question with sincerity instead of trolling... :heated:

[Delete.]

Nothing in the Quran or what was taught by Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) has pagan traditions Nauzu BiLlah. Alhamdulilah that your link doesn't show because you are spreading Anti-Islamic propaganda, may Allah guide you.
@Born_Believer - He adopted traditions from the Jews and Christians with the Permission of Allah. Not pagan traditions/rituals. Nauzu BiLlah. I am sure this is what you meant, brother.
@Al Sultan - I think you misunderstood brother. Our Prophet did not adopt any pagan beliefs into Islam, Nauzu BiLlah. Islam is far from pagan beliefs. The Holy Books of the Jews and the Christians were also revealed by Allah (their original form before they were distorted). That's why some of the original beliefs were adopted into Islam with the Permission of Allah.

Allah knows best.

[RockShan]

I don't see much correlation between Pagan Religions & Islam, other then some practices around but those are common among most Religions or Faiths. But honestly Pagan just means any Religion that isn't the main or recognized ones of today (Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc etc). but I generally can't say sense I am just beginning to research into I

[Scimitar]

Has anyone else here looked into the theory that the doctrines, characters, and themes of Islam were stolen from earlier Pagan traditions and then modified? After doing some research into this, it is an interesting theory with a good amount of evidence to support it, but I'm interested if anyone else has good information/other sources on this. I've found a website called **** to have a lot of evidence I can't disprove. Anyone else have any thoughts on earlier traditions connected to Islam?

Doctrine? There is only ONE GOD - revealed to prophets and messengers and thru the holy writ they may (or may not have) been given. Tauraat (Torah), Zabur (Psalms), Injeel (Gospel of Jesus, not Mathew Mark Luke John or Paul), Qur'an (Koran) the final revelation.

Character? The Prophets and Messengers of the ONE GOD

Themes? Monotheism

Stolen? Hardly... continued, yes.

The Qur'an has information which was not revealed in the previous doctrines such as the story of the sleepers in the cave. And many more pieces of informative revelations which help us to understand that this revelation, is no plagiarisation of previous works, is non contradictory, unblemished and withstood the test of time.

Scimi

EDIT: you may wanna take a look at this: http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...d-muslims.html

[RockShan]

Scimitar, By the way (Just to clarify), the Gospel of Luke, & Mathew were both "inspired" by the Gospel of Mark, and a possible Q source (Not fully known if it's true or not though cause it hasn't been found etc). then Mark seems to of stolen verses from a earlier "Banned Book" called the Gospel of Thomas, and so on. It quite hard to pinpoint when the Church began to weave out or corrupt the teachings of Jesus, but probably sense the beginning.

[Scimitar]

Scimitar, By the way (Just to clarify), the Gospel of Luke, & Mathew were both "inspired" by the Gospel of Mark, and a possible Q source (Not fully known if it's true or not though cause it hasn't been found etc). then Mark seems to of stolen verses from a earlier "Banned Book" called the Gospel of Thomas, and so on. It quite hard to pinpoint when the Church began to weave out or corrupt the teachings of Jesus, but probably sense the beginning.

Look into the Canon history, and Constantine's previous religion of Mithriasm (polytheistic) which he mixed with the monotheistic doctrine which Jesus pbuh preached.

You will find that the trinity is Mithraic interpolation. *******ising the intended word. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY5tCk19AtM

Prepare to be shocked at the level of corruptions the Roman powerhouse left the bible in.

You will be sick to the stomach.

Scimi

[RockShan]

Look into the Canon history, and Constantine's previous religion of Mithriasm (polytheistic) which he mixed with the monotheistic doctrine which Jesus pbuh preached.

You will find that the trinity is Mithraic interpolation. *******ising the intended word.

Prepare to be shocked at the level of corruptions the Roman powerhouse left the bible in.

You will be sick to the stomach.

Scimi

Oh, I already know about how corrupt it is, I checked that out for months already haha.

[Scimitar]

Fair enough, then you also know that Christianity in its current form is anything but "Christian". It does not continue the tradition of monotheism which have been in place since Adam pbuh.

This is why I claim that Paul, was the Anti-Christ of the Christians, because he preached a romanised gospel which left room for the clever roman corruptions to fruit into the religion.

In fact, Paul was hated by both, Jew and Christian alike. The apostles of Jesus pbuh refuted him and denied him, Paul never even met Jesus pbuh let alone know him. Yet he called himself a "disciple" and preached a completely different doctrine. Paul was a hitman/serial killer/murderer for the Romans, hired to kill the followers of Jesus pbuh...

...The schism at that time between the followers of Jesus pbuh and the Jews was a simple one - the followers of Jesus claimed he was the messiah, the jews claimed he was an imposter claiming to be God himself, which Jesus never claimed. Barring this, the followers of Jesus observed Torah laws. Circumcision, no eating pig meat etc...

Paul wanted to do away with all that coz he loved pork and didn't want to get snipped. And worse, he wanted to brand the teachings of Jesus with his own lying and corrupt pen.

...Paul was eventually kicked out of Jerusalem by the Jews and the followers of Jesus, who wanted to lynch him. But the Romans, took him and told him - go preach to the gentiles - this, because the Semites wanted nothing to do with him lol.

Fast forward 300 odd years and enough time has lapsed and enough Christians hunted down by the roman powerhouse that by now, scriptures of Jesus' teachings were fragmented and many such "chapters" were held by many people of Jerusalem.

Hence, Constantine, in a pragmatic decision to reconcile his fading "empire" adopted Christianity as a means by which he can cement his Kingship over the region.

He then took advantage of the fact that hardl anyone could read and collated the books of the Christians and then did a remix, between mithraism and judaism - Jesus never claimed to be a Christian, neither did his followers - they were Jews. Yet - the term Christian is a wholly romanised invention. And it has nothing to do with the messiah in context, but a triune godhead which reeks of paganism.

Scimi

[Al Sultan]

Nothing in the Quran or what was taught by Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) has pagan traditions Nauzu BiLlah. Alhamdulilah that your link doesn't show because you are spreading Anti-Islamic propaganda, may Allah guide you.
@Born_Believer - He adopted traditions from the Jews and Christians with the Permission of Allah. Not pagan traditions/rituals. Nauzu BiLlah. I am sure this is what you meant, brother.
@Al Sultan - I think you misunderstood brother. Our Prophet did not adopt any pagan beliefs into Islam, Nauzu BiLlah. Islam is far from pagan beliefs. The Holy Books of the Jews and the Christians were also revealed by Allah (their original form before they were distorted). That's why some of the original beliefs were adopted into Islam with the Permission of Allah.

Allah knows best.

Yes brother,I misunderstood him,and Jazak Allah Khair

[Born_Believer]

Nothing in the Quran or what was taught by Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) has pagan traditions Nauzu BiLlah. Alhamdulilah that your link doesn't show because you are spreading Anti-Islamic propaganda, may Allah guide you.
@Born_Believer - He adopted traditions from the Jews and Christians with the Permission of Allah. Not pagan traditions/rituals. Nauzu BiLlah. I am sure this is what you meant, brother.
@Al Sultan - I think you misunderstood brother. Our Prophet did not adopt any pagan beliefs into Islam, Nauzu BiLlah. Islam is far from pagan beliefs. The Holy Books of the Jews and the Christians were also revealed by Allah (their original form before they were distorted). That's why some of the original beliefs were adopted into Islam with the Permission of Allah.

Allah knows best.

Yep that's what I meant.

[Al Sultan]

I was told that Islam is the first religion on Earth...can someone confirm this???

[aaj]

I was told that Islam is the first religion on Earth...can someone confirm this???

Islam is a religion of Monotheism. It calls to submission to one God only and recognizes Allah as that God and no illah besides Him. In that sense, Islam is the first religion with Adam a.s. being not only the first man but also the first Prophet/Messenger to mankind. And in that sense he was also a Muslim as were all the prophets that came after him.

[Al Sultan]

I see.....Also I was on IslamReligion.com and I asked a question (on the online chat thing where you can ask admins questions) and one of the admins told me that pagan religions actually copied Islam,Where? from the original christianty,the admin also quoted me a verse from the bible that says about some Christians going to mecca to make tawaf,early Christians apparently did do Hajj,i was surprised to be honest.

[aaj]

I see.....Also I was on IslamReligion.com and I asked a question (on the online chat thing where you can ask admins questions) and one of the admins told me that pagan religions actually copied Islam,Where? from the original christianty,the admin also quoted me a verse from the bible that says about some Christians going to mecca to make tawaf,early Christians apparently did do Hajj,i was surprised to be honest.

Islam being the first and original religion, all those that followed were influnced from it in one way or another. Take Sikhsim for an example. It's founder Guru Nanak was born hindu but looking at his life, he hanged out with the Muslims and followed their traditions and customs. He even carried a Quran with him, went to hajj and married a Muslimah. By all his actions he was a Muslim according to the society. Some say he even converted to Islam. As later Gurus came along, their beliefs became more hostile towards Islam and they diverged into a religion of their own. Many consider it a compromise religion between Islam and Hinduism. Allahu alim.

But Allah gave His deen victory over other nations and all other nations saw this and so many in throughout history regarded the Divine religions as superior and wanted to emulate them. Even during the early days of Islam, many saw the three Arabhamic faith as superior and wanted to be associated with them. If you look into khazarian conspiracy, you'll find a nation of khazars were pagans in the Russian area. They wanted to be part of the divine faiths so their kind converted to Judaism and so did his followers. Their move was a political move and not spiritual. Christianity and Islam were major empires back then and they did not want to upset one over the other so they opted for Judaism. Today these khazars are known as Zionists. They are nor the orthodox Jews, but the oppressors of orthodox Jews and Muslims and Christians of Palestine.

Going back to your hajj story. That had become a tradition long ago, probably from Prophet Ibrahim's time. It was something that was done by pagans and many of different religions. When Muslims took Makkah back, they cleaned it from the idols in it and limited the Hajj to only Muslims.

[Al Sultan]

Islam being the first and original religion, all those that followed were influnced from it in one way or another. Take Sikhsim for an example. It's founder Guru Nanak was born hindu but looking at his life, he hanged out with the Muslims and followed their traditions and customs. He even carried a Quran with him, went to hajj and married a Muslimah. By all his actions he was a Muslim according to the society. Some say he even converted to Islam. As later Gurus came along, their beliefs became more hostile towards Islam and they diverged into a religion of their own. Many consider it a compromise religion between Islam and Hinduism. Allahu alim.

But Allah gave His deen victory over other nations and all other nations saw this and so many in throughout history regarded the Divine religions as superior and wanted to emulate them. Even during the early days of Islam, many saw the three Arabhamic faith as superior and wanted to be associated with them. If you look into khazarian conspiracy, you'll find a nation of khazars were pagans in the Russian area. They wanted to be part of the divine faiths so their kind converted to Judaism and so did his followers. Their move was a political move and not spiritual. Christianity and Islam were major empires back then and they did not want to upset one over the other so they opted for Judaism. Today these khazars are known as Zionists. They are nor the orthodox Jews, but the oppressors of orthodox Jews and Muslims and Christians of Palestine.

Going back to your hajj story. That had become a tradition long ago, probably from Prophet Ibrahim's time. It was something that was done by pagans and many of different religions. When Muslims took Makkah back, they cleaned it from the idols in it and limited the Hajj to only Muslims.

Thank you so much for clarifying and confirming this for me,Jazak Allah Khair brother ❤️❤️❤️


Oh and about Sikhism,pffff,it's a rip off of Islam and Hinduism.it has "5 K's" similar to islams aswell.it also adopts some beliefs of Hinduism and Islam,I actually started a thread talking about Sikhs,will they go to heaven or not,I didn't get clear answers but what do you think ? I don't know..I mean Islam is the proper way of God...not Sikhism...

[aaj]

,I actually started a thread talking about Sikhs,will they go to heaven or not,I didn't get clear answers but what do you think ? I don't know.....

Allah is clear in what He :swt: said :

This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as a religion. [5:3]

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him [3:85]

[Al Sultan]

Allah is clear in what He :swt: said :

This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as a religion. [5:3]

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him [3:85]

The admin actually gave me the same answer,3:85. But in Surat Al Baqara [2:62] it says this, (Yusuf Ali): Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- ANY who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.


the thing is,it says ANY....Sikhs do believe in God,one God,I'm not sure about if they believe in the last day but why does it say ANY?... Who's ANY?... Only Christians,Jews,Sabians,Sikhs?...

[aaj]

The admin actually gave me the same answer,3:85. But in Surat Al Baqara [2:62] it says this, (Yusuf Ali): Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- ANY who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.


the thing is,it says ANY....Sikhs do believe in God,one God,I'm not sure about if they believe in the last day but why does it say ANY?... Who's ANY?... Only Christians,Jews,Sabians,Sikhs?...

Thing with translations is that they are just that, mere translations. Some are better than others and more descriptive, like this one:

Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

We have to read the Arabic text with understanding of the Arabic language and/or with Tafsir of the Quran from a scholar/Imam/teacher to fully understand these verses.

The biggest sin is shirk. If anyone who does not commit that, or there are people who did not know Islam then Allah may test them some other way in the Akhirah. That is between them and Allah. But as far as we know, Islam is the final religion and no other will be accepted per the Quran.

[Al Sultan]

Thing with translations is that they are just that, mere translations. Some are better than others and more descriptive, like this one:

Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

We have to read the Arabic text with understanding of the Arabic language and/or with Tafsir of the Quran from a scholar/Imam/teacher to fully understand these verses.

The biggest sin is shirk. If anyone who does not commit that, or there are people who did not know Islam then Allah may test them some other way in the Akhirah. That is between them and Allah. But as far as we know, Islam is the final religion and no other will be accepted per the Quran.

I see,anyway thanks for explaining this,Jazak Allah Khair [emoji255][emoji255][emoji255]