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Regrets1
10-22-2016, 01:39 PM
Asalamu Alaikum.

Alhamdulillah I follow the Quran and Hadith. Does it say in the Quran that we must follow the Hadith?? I know someone who followed Hadith, wore abaya and was considering wearing niqab..now that she has started attending islamic school she's been told hadiths are "fake" anyone can change them where as the Quran hasn't and will not be changed..she said "I hate Hadith" Astagferullah.

She says women should wear loose clothes so body shape is not visible but wearing head scarf and covering the head is not fardh. She says everything is in Quran so why follow Hadith? How do we know if the hadiths are real? Allah said follow Quran so following Hadith is shirk. She does understand that the Prophet pbuh did what Allah swt told him to.."nor does he speak his own desire"..she says the prophet pbuh did not write the hadiths so how do we know people haven't made things up??Please provide answers with reference from Quran. JazakAllah.
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Little_Lion
10-22-2016, 02:25 PM
I just, JUST woke up and am not thinking clearly enough to organize my thoughts yet, but here is a link to my notes so far on Hadith and how they were collected from my IOU course. It includes Qur'anic verses and is basically an outline of everything (from the first three parts of the class) on how Hadith are organized, authenticated, should be adhered to, etc. Insha'Allah I'll put this into something more condense for general reading later today but you're welcome to pick through it in the meantime.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
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Search
10-22-2016, 03:02 PM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

Sister, either your friend has misunderstood what the teachers are teaching or some really bad teachers are giving lectures in this so-called "islamic school."

There is zero way a person can understand the Qur'an without the aegis of ahadith (prophetic traditions); if a person rejects ahadith (prophetic traditions) altogether, that person essentially becomes a non-Muslim and would be characterized that way under shariah (Islamic law).

Frankly, what's more likely to have happened is that your friend has learned some ahadith that she didn't really like due to finding them facially harsh (without learning as yet context) and in the process of learning that there is a possibility that some ahadith can possibly be characterized as weak, she thinks she's found a loophole to reject them altogether. However, even some of the weak ahadith are characterized as such due to the chain of transmission and not because they're not true. I fear for your friend's iman (faith) and I ask that you pray for her and do not let her influence you in this matter because she's not even 1% correct.

Originally Posted by Regrets1
Asalamu Alaikum.

Alhamdulillah I follow the Quran and Hadith. Does it say in the Quran that we must follow the Hadith?? I know someone who followed Hadith, wore abaya and was considering wearing niqab..now that she has started attending islamic school she's been told hadiths are "fake" anyone can change them where as the Quran hasn't and will not be changed..she said "I hate Hadith" Astagferullah.

She says women should wear loose clothes so body shape is not visible but wearing head scarf and covering the head is not fardh. She says everything is in Quran so why follow Hadith? How do we know if the hadiths are real? Allah said follow Quran so following Hadith is shirk. She does understand that the Prophet pbuh did what Allah swt told him to.."nor does he speak his own desire"..she says the prophet pbuh did not write the hadiths so how do we know people haven't made things up??Please provide answers with reference from Quran. JazakAllah.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
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Insaanah
10-22-2016, 03:41 PM
Wa alaykum assalaam,

Originally Posted by Regrets1
She says everything is in Quran so why follow Hadith?
If everything is in the Qur'an, where does it state how many rakat for each prayer etc?

Originally Posted by Regrets1
Allah said follow Quran so following Hadith is shirk.
I wonder what kind of an "Islamic" school this is.

This is a gross misunderstanding. The authentic hadeeth is essential for a proper understanding of Islam.

The Qur'an, in fact, contrary to what she's said, mandates that we follow the sunnah of the prophet :saws: , and the records of the sunnah are preserved in the authentic hadeeth.

Please read this thread from the linked post onwards. It may be a bit long (eight posts), but perhaps read a post a day, or send her the link so she can read them.

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadith/1...ml#post2845588

Rejecting the sunnah of the Prophet :saws: has grave implications for our imaan, and is a very serious matter.
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anatolian
10-22-2016, 05:44 PM
There is a new group who call themselves "Quran alone" Muslims. They reject all hadithes.
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anatolian
10-22-2016, 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by Search
There is zero way a person can understand the Qur'an without the aegis of ahadith (prophetic traditions); if a person rejects ahadith (prophetic traditions) altogether, that person essentially becomes a non-Muslim and would be characterized that way under [I]shariah (Islamic law).
I am not a Quran alone Muslim but this is something I completely oppose..If one cannot understand Quran witout the aegis of Hadith why Quran identifies itself "a clear Book"?
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Regrets1
10-22-2016, 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
Wa alaykum assalaam,



If everything is in the Qur'an, where does it state how many rakat for each prayer etc?



I wonder what kind of an "Islamic" school this is.

This is a gross misunderstanding. The authentic hadeeth is essential for a proper understanding of Islam.

The Qur'an, in fact, contrary to what she's said, mandates that we follow the sunnah of the prophet :saws: , and the records of the sunnah are preserved in the authentic hadeeth.

Please read this thread from the linked post onwards. It may be a bit long (eight posts), but perhaps read a post a day, or send her the link so she can read them.

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadith/1...ml#post2845588

Rejecting the sunnah of the Prophet :saws: has grave implications for our imaan, and is a very serious matter.
That's exactly what I asked her..her reply was "how do we know if the Hadith is authentic? Including sahih Bukhari"
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Insaanah
10-22-2016, 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
That's exactly what I asked her..her reply was "how do we know if the Hadith is authentic? Including sahih Bukhari"
This is a book called Usool al-hadeeth by Dr Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips.

It has chapters on hadeeth compilation, ie what was the position during the Prophets :saws: lifetime, then afterwards during the era of the sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them) and their followers, how the hadeeth were transmitted, the isnaad system, the conditions for a hadeeth to be saheeh, which things cause a hadeeth to be rejected, how to reconcile between outwardly contradictory texts, the science of validation of hadeeth, etc:

https://islamfuture.files.wordpress....evaluation.pdf

No short answer will do justice to this.

Please take the time to even read a few pages a day, and maybe a post a day of the other thread that I linked to.
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فصيح الياسين
10-23-2016, 02:58 AM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
Asalamu Alaikum.

Alhamdulillah I follow the Quran and Hadith. Does it say in the Quran that we must follow the Hadith?? I know someone who followed Hadith, wore abaya and was considering wearing niqab..now that she has started attending islamic school she's been told hadiths are "fake" anyone can change them where as the Quran hasn't and will not be changed..she said "I hate Hadith" Astagferullah.

She says women should wear loose clothes so body shape is not visible but wearing head scarf and covering the head is not fardh. She says everything is in Quran so why follow Hadith? How do we know if the hadiths are real? Allah said follow Quran so following Hadith is shirk. She does understand that the Prophet pbuh did what Allah swt told him to.."nor does he speak his own desire"..she says the prophet pbuh did not write the hadiths so how do we know people haven't made things up??Please provide answers with reference from Quran. JazakAllah.
Hahaha sorry cant stop laughing... is this real????
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Little_Lion
10-23-2016, 03:11 AM
Originally Posted by anatolian
I am not a Quran alone Muslim but this is something I completely oppose..If one cannot understand Quran witout the aegis of Hadith why Quran identifies itself "a clear Book"?
Because the Qur'an does contain the Straight Path which is, worship none but Allah. It gives clear instruction how to do that and one of its instructions on how to do that is to follow the Messenger of Allah. And the Prophet (pbuh) said, “Indeed, I was given the Qur’an and something similar to it along with it.” referring to the hadith.

I originally studied under a teacher who wasn't "Qur'an only" but was definitely "Qur'an mostly"; convincing him a hadith was sahih was very difficult and he is a VERY learned man. Even then he was prone to reinterpret things to the current way of life and *laughs* switching over to a Salafi teacher has been an eye-opening experience. :)
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فصيح الياسين
10-23-2016, 04:08 AM
Originally Posted by anatolian
There is a new group who call themselves "Quran alone" Muslims. They reject all hadithes.
Never heard of them. Though rejecting all hadith are kufr so thy arent muslimS. If u have any contacts of them i will love to chat with them.. and they wont get what hitted them
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Regrets1
10-23-2016, 08:57 AM
Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين
Hahaha sorry cant stop laughing... is this real????
It sure is real..I was so happy when she told me she's attending islamic school, Iv read many comments and stories of people who reject Hadith..never thought someone I know would go that path.
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anatolian
10-23-2016, 09:29 AM
Originally Posted by Little_Lion
Because the Qur'an does contain the Straight Path which is, worship none but Allah. It gives clear instruction how to do that and one of its instructions on how to do that is to follow the Messenger of Allah. And the Prophet (pbuh) said, “Indeed, I was given the Qur’an and something similar to it along with it.” referring to the hadith.

I originally studied under a teacher who wasn't "Qur'an only" but was definitely "Qur'an mostly"; convincing him a hadith was sahih was very difficult and he is a VERY learned man. Even then he was prone to reinterpret things to the current way of life and *laughs* switching over to a Salafi teacher has been an eye-opening experience. :)
Yes ofcourse Quran itself says to follow the Prophet a.s. but the Prophet a.s. himself said that do not write down his words. People didnt write any hadith until 2 centuries after Him. Buhari first thought to collect a hadith book. And many hadithes had been fabricated until his period.

What was the eye-opening point? I am relly intersted..Salam
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Saifu433
10-23-2016, 09:38 AM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
Asalamu Alaikum.

Alhamdulillah I follow the Quran and Hadith. Does it say in the Quran that we must follow the Hadith?? I know someone who followed Hadith, wore abaya and was considering wearing niqab..now that she has started attending islamic school she's been told hadiths are "fake" anyone can change them where as the Quran hasn't and will not be changed..she said "I hate Hadith" Astagferullah.

She says women should wear loose clothes so body shape is not visible but wearing head scarf and covering the head is not fardh. She says everything is in Quran so why follow Hadith? How do we know if the hadiths are real? Allah said follow Quran so following Hadith is shirk. She does understand that the Prophet pbuh did what Allah swt told him to.."nor does he speak his own desire"..she says the prophet pbuh did not write the hadiths so how do we know people haven't made things up??Please provide answers with reference from Quran. JazakAllah.
Quran says..

Follow Prophet...

If you want to follow Prophet, you need Hadiths.

HAadiths are useful to understand how Quran had been understood and practiced by Our leader Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
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M.I.A.
10-23-2016, 12:22 PM
i am not a quran only muslim.

although i am extremely cautious when it comes to hadith.

i think that the dangers of only referring to the quran are far superceded by those people that quote hadiths they have heard..

for the layman.

and since none of us are liers the situation is extremely dangerous.

if the quran can be a source of guidance and misguidance then there is no doubt that the same applies to hadith.

the truth IS subjective it would seem.

allah swt raises and lowers as he wills.. maybe i expect too much from him.

yay for double posts.. so many gremlins on the android version.

using chrome btw.
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Delete.
10-23-2016, 12:25 PM
May Allah protect us all from falling into innovation.
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M.I.A.
10-23-2016, 12:39 PM
i have no idea what you mean.
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فصيح الياسين
10-23-2016, 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
It sure is real..I was so happy when she told me she's attending islamic school, Iv read many comments and stories of people who reject Hadith..never thought someone I know would go that path.
My advice for u to be far away frm her cause she might corrupt as well.. she lost her eman by saying all of these.. i mean rejection of all hadith.. even quran is also hadith e mutawatir al matlu.... may allah protect muslims all over the world.. in europe muslims are really at hard state staying these stuff either make some one corrupt in eman or hurt his heart for sure....
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Insaanah
10-23-2016, 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Yes ofcourse Quran itself says to follow the Prophet a.s. but the Prophet a.s. himself said that do not write down his words. People didnt write any hadith until 2 centuries after Him. Buhari first thought to collect a hadith book.
:salam:

During the life of the Prophet :saws: there was no pressing need to write down all of his various statements or record his actions because he was present and could be consulted at any time. As a matter of fact, the prophet :saws: himself made a general prohibition against writing down his statements which were other than the Qur’aan itself. This was to prevent the possibility of mixing up the Qur’aan with his own words during the era of revelation. Consequently, the greatest stress regarding writing was placed on recording the Qur’aanic verses. However, there are many authentic narrations collected by the Scholars of Hadeeth that prove that Hadeeth were recorded in writing even during the lifetime of the Prophet :saws: For example, Abdullaah ibn ‘Amr said: “I used to write everything which I heard from the Messenger of Allaah :saws: with the intention of memorizing it. However, some Qurayshites forbade me from doing so saying, ‘Do you write everything that you hear from him, while the Messenger of Allaah :saws: is a human being who speaks in anger and pleasure?’ So I stopped writing, and mentioned it to the Messenger of Allah :saws:. He pointed with his finger to his mouth and said: Write! By Him in whose hand is my soul, only truth comes out from it.’ Aboo hurayrah :ra: said: When Makkah was conquered, the Prophet :saws: stood up and gave a sermon [Aboo Hurayrah then mentioned the sermon]. A man from Yemen, called Aboo Shaah got up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah! Write it down for me.” The Messenger of Allaah :saws: replied, “Write it for Aboo Shaah.”Al-Waleed asked Aboo ‘Amr, “What are they writing?” He replied, “The sermon which he heard that day."

Aboo Qaabeel said: We were with Abdullaah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas and he was asked which city will be conquered first Constantinople or Rome? So ‘Abdullaah called for a sealed trunk and he said, “Take out the book from it.”Then ‘Abdullaah said, “While we were with the Messenger of Allaah :saws: writing, The Messenger of Allaah :saws: was asked, Which city will be conquered first, Constantinople or Rome? ” So Allaah ’s messenger :saws: said: “The city of Heracilius will be conquered first ,” meaning Constantinople.

The above is from the book I mentioned above and can be read in the PDF linked to above.

Please also scroll to pdf page 171, which is page 177 of the following important source, which also shows that the "fact" that hadeeth weren't written til two hundred years after the prophet :saws: is a myth spread by non Muslim orientalists, and that the recording of the hadeeth actually began during the prophets :saws: lifetime and he explicitly allowed it, one sentence of which is "There is no question, therefore, that the recording of hadeeth began during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah :saws: himself. This practice of writing hadeeth continued after the death of the Messenger of Allah :saws:."

https://futureislam.files.wordpress....the-sunnah.pdf

The book is called the authority and importance of the sunnah, by Jamal al Din Zarabozo. This is another useful source in addition to the one I mentioned above.

I hope this helps to clarify.
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Hamza Cavus
10-23-2016, 02:24 PM
Assalamualaikum,
ive just registered to reply to this :D

Originally Posted by Regrets1
She says women should wear loose clothes so body shape is not visible but wearing head scarf and covering the head is not fardh. She says everything is in Quran so why follow Hadith?
Surah An-nur 31 it says: And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons...

She reject Hadith? She even reject Quran. That I wanted say.

Salam
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Regrets1
10-23-2016, 04:39 PM
Buying a house on mortgage is haram, right?? I am just so worried for her and her family. Don't know where and who they are learning from that they think it's not haram..they were really strict about all this but are now considering of getting a house on mortgage. All I can do is make dua for them, don't know how to help them.
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فصيح الياسين
10-23-2016, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
Buying a house on mortgage is haram, right?? I am just so worried for her and her family. Don't know where and who they are learning from that they think it's not haram..they were really strict about all this but are now considering of getting a house on mortgage. All I can do is make dua for them, don't know how to help them.
Mortgage mean rahn.. and its not haram. Even our prophet صلي الله عليه و آله did this before his death... but yes some conditions make it to haram.. and i dnt knw how in europe mortgage is done
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M.I.A.
10-23-2016, 07:17 PM
how does anyone buy a house anymore?
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
10-23-2016, 07:23 PM
A Munkir-ul-Hadeeth (Hadeeth Rejector) is a Kaafir. In fact, Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم, over 1,400 years ago, mentioned that towards the end of times, a group will emerge who will reject Hadeeth and call people to take only from the Qur'aan.

These people have a sickness in their brains. They have not yet studied enough to know that if there is no Hadeeth, there is no Qur'aan, as the Qur'aan was compiled, written down and transmitted by the Sahaabah. It did not come down in a book form. So what is the difference between the compilation of the Ahaadeeth and the gathering of the Qur'aan? Are they even aware of how the Qur'aan was gathered?

Rather than waste time blabbering nonsense in these issues, they should ask Allaah Ta`aalaa to grant them understanding.

Was-Salaam.
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M.I.A.
10-23-2016, 08:24 PM
its a miracle in itself..

i have yet to be explained too..

in terms of who wrote it down.

on what it was written.

or who gathered it.

those people are not common knowledge im afraid.
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Insaanah
10-24-2016, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
Buying a house on mortgage is haram, right?? I am just so worried for her and her family. Don't know where and who they are learning from that they think it's not haram..they were really strict about all this but are now considering of getting a house on mortgage. All I can do is make dua for them, don't know how to help them.
Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين
Mortgage mean rahn.. and its not haram. Even our prophet صلي الله عليه و آله did this before his death... but yes some conditions make it to haram.. and i dnt knw how in europe mortgage is done
In Europe, it is usually based on interest, which is haram.

Originally Posted by M.I.A.
i have yet to be explained too..

in terms of who wrote it down.

on what it was written.

or who gathered it.

those people are not common knowledge im afraid.
Have a look at the links I posted. I'll direct you to the relevant page numbers. From the first link, Usool al Hadeeth, go to PDF page 11 onwards, and pages 16 onwards, and in the second link, the Authority and Importance of the Sunnah, go to page 166 onward. They are very useful to read generally outside of those pages too.
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
10-24-2016, 09:46 PM
Just noticed that my "Likes" count is "911".
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mission2succeed
10-24-2016, 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
Asalamu Alaikum.

Alhamdulillah I follow the Quran and Hadith. Does it say in the Quran that we must follow the Hadith?? I know someone who followed Hadith, wore abaya and was considering wearing niqab..now that she has started attending islamic school she's been told hadiths are "fake" anyone can change them where as the Quran hasn't and will not be changed..she said "I hate Hadith" Astagferullah.

She says women should wear loose clothes so body shape is not visible but wearing head scarf and covering the head is not fardh. She says everything is in Quran so why follow Hadith? How do we know if the hadiths are real? Allah said follow Quran so following Hadith is shirk. She does understand that the Prophet pbuh did what Allah swt told him to.."nor does he speak his own desire"..she says the prophet pbuh did not write the hadiths so how do we know people haven't made things up??Please provide answers with reference from Quran. JazakAllah.
Subhanallah there will always be evil people bringing falsehood to the religion. My advice is that this person needs to stop going to this school as it is not islamic at all. And if they don't stop going or can't then I suggest you keep away from them as the last thing you want to do is start doubting the religion and your following.Always remember the Quran is Allah's words and tell us what we have to do whereas the Sunnah of our prophet Muhammad saw tells us how it is suppose to be done.
For example in the quran we are ordered to pray and in the sunnah it tells us what to say and how to pray insha'allah.
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mission2succeed
10-24-2016, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
how does anyone buy a house anymore?
They don't unless they can pay cash upfront. Best solution live in a rented accommodation.
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mission2succeed
10-24-2016, 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
Buying a house on mortgage is haram, right?? I am just so worried for her and her family. Don't know where and who they are learning from that they think it's not haram..they were really strict about all this but are now considering of getting a house on mortgage. All I can do is make dua for them, don't know how to help them.
Yes it is haraam as interest is haraam and there is no such thing as halal mortgage in case you ask.
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فصيح الياسين
10-25-2016, 01:50 AM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
In Europe, it is usually based on interest, which is haram.



Have a look at the links I posted. I'll direct you to the relevant page numbers. From the first link, Usool al Hadeeth, go to PDF page 11 onwards, and pages 16 onwards, and in the second link, the Authority and Importance of the Sunnah, go to page 166 onward. They are very useful to read generally outside of those pages too.
Thanks for this information [emoji4] [emoji4]
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M.I.A.
10-25-2016, 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by mission2succeed
Yes it is haraam as interest is haraam and there is no such thing as halal mortgage in case you ask.
textbook answer.

Originally Posted by mission2succeed
They don't unless they can pay cash upfront. Best solution live in a rented accommodation.
this is not a viable solution..

i wrote a long post but the internet ate it.

it does not promote long term stability. it does negate the problem of loans and loan sharks..

but if abstinence is the solution to problems then apply it thoroughly.

but heres the kicker, what a delusion is the delusion of control.

just because the sharks cant prey on desperation does not mean they are less fed with aspiration.

...maybe renting is the solution.


..but how do landlords buy houses!!!


beats me, id probably be living in guberment housing if it wernt for my parents.

hows the job market?


eating out of the same plate is no easy task..

but somewhere along the line you should aspire to have more plates..

not less.

does it mean you dont share anymore?


how you act when given your plate is a test in itself..

as it is for those that approach to eat from it.

take your time, im sure your answers will be the best answers.

an un tame able people.

well, im surely not gods will.


smiling is charity. especially from those that are tenants of faith.
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gazzalii
10-26-2016, 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

Sister, either your friend has misunderstood what the teachers are teaching or some really bad teachers are giving lectures in this so-called "islamic school."

There is zero way a person can understand the Qur'an without the aegis of ahadith (prophetic traditions); if a person rejects ahadith (prophetic traditions) altogether, that person essentially becomes a non-Muslim and would be characterized that way under shariah (Islamic law).

Frankly, what's more likely to have happened is that your friend has learned some ahadith that she didn't really like due to finding them facially harsh (without learning as yet context) and in the process of learning that there is a possibility that some ahadith can possibly be characterized as weak, she thinks she's found a loophole to reject them altogether. However, even some of the weak ahadith are characterized as such due to the chain of transmission and not because they're not true. I fear for your friend's iman (faith) and I ask that you pray for her and do not let her influence you in this matter because she's not even 1% correct.



:wa: (And peace be upon you)
We are not in a position to judge anyone. Live your life by quran
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Insaanah
10-27-2016, 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by gazzalii
We are not in a position to judge anyone. Live your life by quran
Where somebody has a misconception abut Islam, it is our duty to correct it, not to stay silent. If you want to live your life by the Qur'an, then you have to follow the sunnah of the Prophet :saws: , because, as already mentioned, the Qur'an mandates the following of the Prophet's sunnah. Please read all the posts and links provided, some of which give evidence from the Qur'an.
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Born_Believer
10-30-2016, 10:59 PM
Not believing in the sunnah of the Prophet PBUH is a great sin.
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Regrets1
10-31-2016, 01:04 PM
This is the reply I got from her ..

https://youtu.be/Mm35-N4WwxY
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crimsontide06
10-31-2016, 01:47 PM
Nice, ty for sharing... btw, on page 15 you misspelled met..


Module 2 Part D: Classification of Hadith

The Hadith Saheeh

  1. If all of the narrators in the Sanad fulfil the following three conditions, the Hadith is classified as an accurate saying or action of the Prophet and named Saheeh.

    1. This means we can be certain that the Prophet actually said or did that was reported in the hadith.

      1. The narrators must all be known to be truthful
      2. They must all have good memories, or have written down what they heard

        1. Scholars later graded the memories of Narrators into excellent and acceptable. If all had excellent memories the hadith was rated saheeh, and if some were acceptable it was rated hasan. However, both categories are considered authentic.

      3. They must all have net each other
Originally Posted by Little_Lion
I just, JUST woke up and am not thinking clearly enough to organize my thoughts yet, but here is a link to my notes so far on Hadith and how they were collected from my IOU course. It includes Qur'anic verses and is basically an outline of everything (from the first three parts of the class) on how Hadith are organized, authenticated, should be adhered to, etc. Insha'Allah I'll put this into something more condense for general reading later today but you're welcome to pick through it in the meantime.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
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Regrets1
10-31-2016, 02:22 PM
Iv shared all the links from here..she's not ready to listen to or believe anything. She said "we should not be following any narration that is not from Allah swt" I think il just stop trying.
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aaj
10-31-2016, 02:47 PM
It is essential that it be established in the mind and heart of every Muslim that the Sunnah – which is the words, deeds and approval that are attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – is one of the two parts of divine Revelation that were revealed to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The other part of the Revelation (Wahy) is the Holy Qur’aan

The Prophet’s Sunnah is the second source of Islamic sharee‘ah. The revelation came down to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) with the Sunnah as it came down to him with the Qur’an. The proof of that is the words of Allah, may He be exalted (interpretation of the meaning):

“Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

It is but a revelation revealed” [an-Najm 53:3-4].

https://islamqa.info/en/115125


It is essential that it be established in the mind and heart of every Muslim that the Sunnah – which is the words, deeds and approval that are attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – is one of the two parts of divine Revelation that were revealed to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The other part of the Revelation (Wahy) is the Holy Qur’aan

It was narrated from al-Miqdaam ibn Ma’di Yakrib (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“Verily I have been given the Qur’aan AND something similar to it along with it. But soon there will be a time when a man will be reclining on his couch with a full stomach, and he will say, ‘You should adhere to this Qur’aan: what you find that it says is permissible, take it as permissible, and what you find it says is forbidden, take it as forbidden.’ But indeed, whatever the Messenger of Allaah forbids is like what Allaah forbids.”


https://islamqa.info/en/77243


Science of Hadith and how it was collected. If interested in reading check here: https://islamqa.info/en/239540

Whoever obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah.
[4:80]

What the Messenger gives you, take it;and what he forbids you from doing, avoid doing it.
[59:7

Originally Posted by Regrets1
Iv shared all the links from here..she's not ready to listen to or believe anything. She said "we should not be following any narration that is not from Allah swt" I think il just stop trying.
When someone is on the wrong path, no amount of proofs and evidence will help if he/she is not willing to listen and keep an open mind and heart. We can only try our best but all we can do is convey the message, hidaya is from Allah only.
Reply

فصيح الياسين
10-31-2016, 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
Iv shared all the links from here..she's not ready to listen to or believe anything. She said "we should not be following any narration that is not from Allah swt" I think il just stop trying.
Leave her it will good for u.
Their is one firqa known as zakriya or zikriya they dnt believe on single hadith. So they are out of islam..
The girl u say about. Her many beliefs are still unknown to us..
Like what she think of prophet. How quran came. How to pray etc etc so it will help us to understand her more easily
Reply

Regrets1
10-31-2016, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين
Leave her it will good for u.
Their is one firqa known as zakriya or zikriya they dnt believe on single hadith. So they are out of islam..
The girl u say about. Her many beliefs are still unknown to us..
Like what she think of prophet. How quran came. How to pray etc etc so it will help us to understand her more easily
She just like any other Sunni Muslim believes in the prophet pbuh, prayes like we all do, she followed the Hadith But has completely changed now. She doesn't follow no Hadith now, she thinks following Hadith means saying Quran is incomplete. May Allah swt guide her. Ameen.
Reply

فصيح الياسين
10-31-2016, 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
She just like any other Sunni Muslim believes in the prophet pbuh, prayes like we all do, she followed the Hadith But has completely changed now. She doesn't follow no Hadith now, she thinks following Hadith means saying Quran is incomplete. May Allah swt guide her. Ameen.
Did u ever asked why u pray like this even in quran there is no description about performing it like we do
Reply

Regrets1
10-31-2016, 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين
Did u ever asked why u pray like this even in quran there is no description about performing it like we do
I asked her and her answer shocked me. She's not that person anymore il post what she said below its abit long but reading little bit of it will tell you how she is now.

"-5-

Three Salat (Prayers) Authorised in the Quran

The prayers mentioned by name in the Quran are:

1- Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn Prayer)24:58

2- Salat Al-Isha (Night Prayer)24:58

3- Al-Salat Al-Wusta (The Middle Prayer) 2:238.

However, 99% of all Muslims in the world claim that God decreed 5 daily prayers.
Their 5 salat are: Fajr - Zhohr - Asr - Maghrib - Isha.
They changed the name of the Salat Al-Wusta (The Middle Prayer) to Salat Al-Zhohr, and they added 2 salat which are the Asr and Maghrib.

The question is: If the prescribed prayers are indeed five per day, why does the Quran have only three named salat? To research this issue we present the following points:

First: Why are there only three named salat in the Quran?

If it is true that God authorised 5 obligatory salat per day, then we must inquire as to why there are only 3 names of salat given in the Quran?

The following explanations and their merits are put forward:

1- The names of the other salat are not in the Quran because the Quran does not contain all the details. This is a false claim because God tells us in 6:114 that the book is fully detailed and in 6:38 that nothing has been left out of the book:

“Shall I seek other than God as a source of law when He has brought down to you this book fully detailed?” 6:114

“We did not leave anything out of the book” 6:38

2- God forgot to mention the other two names of salat! This option is also false, God does not forget:

“He said, "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord in a record. My Lord never errs, nor does He forget." 20:52

3- God did not mention the names of the other 2 salat because they are not important. If the salat were not important they would not be compulsory, and as a result, to claim that there are five compulsory prayers becomes a false claim.

4- God did not mention the names of the other 2 prayers because God wants us to guess them! Once again this is false, the Quran is unambiguous and is not a book of puzzles:

"A.L.R. These are the signs of the clear book" 12:1

"We have made it (the Quran) easy to understand and in your own tongue (language) may you take heed." 44:58

5- God does not mention the names of the other 2 salat because they can be found in the hadith. This is a false claim since we are commanded not to uphold any source of law other than the Quran (6:114, 7:3 and 5:48). We are also commanded specifically not to believe any hadith other than the Quran:

“These are God's revelations which we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?” 45:6

The fact that God deliberately used the words “in which hadith” are very significant.

6- God does not mention the names of all the salat since they came to us through inherited rituals, and because God wants us to follow what we inherited from our parents even if it is not found in the Quran! Once again a claim that violates the Quran. In the Quran we are commanded not to follow what we inherited from our parents if it is not clearly found in the Quran:

“And when they are told, "Follow what God has revealed (Quran)," they say, "We follow only what we found our parents doing." What if their parents did not understand, and were not guided?” 2:170

7- God does not mention the names of the other 2 prayers, because there are no other 2 prayers according to the law of the Quran.

The genuine believers who believe that the Quran contains all the details, with no ifs or buts, will not accept any option other than option 7.
Second: Does the Quran give the exact times for each salat?

God tells us that the time of each prayer is precisely given in the Quran "kitaban mawqootan" 4:103. The word "kitaban" which means 'book' refers to the Quran, or to 'that which is written', and the word "mawqootan" means specifically timed. The deliberate use of these two words by God confirms that the precise appointed time for each of the prayers is given in the Quran. Once again this conforms to the fact that the Quran contains all the details.

The exact times of the three salat are given in the Quran and they are as follows:

The Fajr (Dawn) Prayer (mentioned by name in 24:58)

This prayer starts when fajr (dawn) starts. The start of fajr is given in 2:187. It starts when the first thin ray of light is observed in the sky. The words in 2:187 are: "until the white thread becomes distinguishable to you from the dark thread at dawn." The prayer ends at sunrise as will be explained in more details below.

The Isha (Night) Prayer (mentioned by name in 24:58)

The night prayer corresponds to the other end of the day. It is the mirror image of the fajr salat. This prayer starts at sunset and ends when all light has disappeared from the night sky.

The Wusta (Middle) Prayer (mentioned by name in 2:238)

The middle or 'Wusta' prayer starts when the sun starts to decline from its highest point in the sky (dulook al-shams), which is at noon, and ends at sunset as detailed below.

Third: The detailed times for each salat

The exact times of the Dawn (fajr) prayer and Evening (Isha) prayers are given in the following verse:

"You shall observe the Salat at the two ends of the day; and during the near parts of the night." 11:114

Traditionally, this verse has been interpreted to be speaking of three prayers: two Salat at the ends of the day plus an additional salat during the night, a total of 3 salat.

However, this is a clear mis-understanding. This verse in fact speaks of only two prayers. This will be apparent once we establish the true meaning of key words in 11:114.

1- The "ends of the day" are sunrise and sunset. A command to observe the salat at the two ends of the day is insufficient in giving us the time range for the salat in question. This is because sunrise and sunset (the two ends of the day) are events that take less than 2 minutes to be completed. Surely God does not expect all believers to observe the salat during this very brief time! It is only with the addition of the words "wa zulufan min al-layl" in the same verse that we are given a time range as to when these two salat are to be observed.

2- Some interpreters, have claimed that we can observe the Salat around the two points and not only during the actual sunrise/sunset, but this is equally unacceptable. This interpretation gives rise to a new valid question: When exactly would the 'around the two points' be? Would it be before sunrise (and sunset) or after sunrise (sunset)? It is obvious that we would be left without any clues as to when exactly to observe these two Salat. However, the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' gives us the exact timing of these two salat.

3- There has been a number of interpretations for the words 'zulufann min al-layl'. The most commonly used are:
- (parts of the night) or (during the night) or (approaches of the night).

However, none of these interpretations are accurate, nor in line with the Quranic use of the word 'zulufan' as will be shown.
The phrases (parts of the night) and (during the night) is actually meaningless since any part of the night (beginning, middle or end) is a part of the night or during the night! God would not instruct us to observe the Salat with such a vague description.

Equally, the phrase (approaches of the night) is basically irrational. The approach means the route leading to something. Any linear quantity such as the night, in terms of being a sequence of hours, can have only one approach period. That would be the time leading to the night, or just before the night fall. A time in the middle of the night, or a part at the end of the night cannot be an approach to the night.

Similarly, the approach to the day (nahar) can only be the period of time just before the day.

But in 11:114 the words zulufan is plural, which immediately discards the meaning of 'approaches' since there can never be a plural number of approaches to the night.

To derive the correct meaning of the word zulufan, what is a better source to use than the Quran itself?

The root of the word "zulufann" is "Zulfa". The word "Zulfa" is used in the Quran to mean near or close as in:

"….. those who set up allies beside him, "We only idolize them so that they may bring us ‘zulfa’ (close) to God!" 39:3

The definition of the Quranic word 'zulfa' is also confirmed in the following verses:

[34:37] It is not your money or your children that will bring you 'zulfa' (closer) to Us, but only those who believe and do good deeds, they will receive double the reward for their works. They will reside peacefully in mansions.

[38:25] So We forgave him for that. We granted him 'zulfa' (nearness) to Us and a fine abode.

[38:40] He is granted 'zulfa' (nearness) to Us and a wonderful abode.

As a result, the phrase "zulufann min al-layl" means the near parts of the night. The obvious question is: near to what? Nothing can be described as 'near' in absolute terms. The word 'near' can only have a meaning when we have a reference point to which this thing is near to. For example, we cannot say "my house is near" nor "the chair is near"! These phrase on their own do not have any meaning, but we can say "my house is near the school" and "the chair is near the table". So now we have to read 11:114 again and see what does God mean by 'near parts of the night', or in other words, near to what? The only other reference points given in 11:114 are the "ends of the day", which are sunrise and sunset. As a result, the words "zulufann min al-layl" can only mean the parts of the night which are near to sunrise and sunset.
With the knowledge that anytime between sunset and sunrise is defined as night in the Quran (details at: Definition of Night in the Quran) it becomes clear that the part of the night which is near sunrise is the time of Fajr (dawn), this is the hour or so before sunrise when there is some light in the sky. Similarly the part of the night which is near to sunset is Isha (night), this is the hour or so after sunset when there is light in the sky.

As a result, 11:114 speaks of two salat only, and God is giving us in 11:114 the range of two salat. The range for the two salat are the parts of the night which are just before sunrise and immediately after sunset.

Perhaps the word "wa", which means 'and', which is placed before the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' is the word that was the main subject of misinterpretation. Many have understood the word 'wa' to mean (and an additional Salat), however, the word 'wa' simply links the two ends of the day, with the adjacent parts of the night, to give the time range of the two salat.

The two Salat at the ends of the day that are spoken of in 11:114 are given specific names in the Quran. They are Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn Prayer) and Salat Al-Isha (Night Prayer).

Not surprisingly, the times of "fajr" and "esha" are defined in Arabic dictionaries as the times before sunrise and after sunset respectively.

-------------------

Now we come to the third Salat mentioned in the Quran, which is Al-Salat Al-Wusta (2:238). The timing of this salat is given in the following verse:

"You shall observe the Salat from the 'duluk' of the sun (when the sun declines from its highest point) up until the 'ghasaq al-layl' (the darkness of the night)" 17:78

The word "Wusta" (2:238) is a derivative of the word 'Wasat' which means middle. Therefore the words "Al-Salat Al-Wusta" mean 'The Middle Prayer'. The word middle (wusta) in 2:238 cannot have a meaning in an absolute sense. To be described as 'middle' must be in reference to two other points. The only other reference points given in the Quran in connection to salat are sunrise and sunset (the ends of the day in 11:114). Thus the middle salat starts when the sun has travelled exactly half way between sunrise and sunset. This is at midday.

The exact time for the Middle prayer (Salat Al-Wusta), which is given in 17:78, is from the moment the sun begins its descent from its highest point at midday (duluk al shams) until the darkness of the night starts (ghasaq al-layl).

The darkness itself starts about an hour or so before sunset, but the time before sunset is still part of the day, but since God said: "the darkness of the night" it must be the beginning of the darkness but also part of the night. This would be as soon as the sun sets, for then the darkness is setting in and it is also part of the night. Had God only said "until the darkness" this would have meant a time before sunset when the sun is still up but darkness is starting to creep in.

It must also be mentioned that some scholars have interpreted the words "until the darkness of the night" to mean when it is totally dark! But this is not correct, to demonstrate the correct meaning, consider the following example which outlines some basic logic:

If a man is told: Walk till you get to the sea then start swimming.

Does this mean that the man should swim when he gets to the beginning of the sea, when he gets to the middle of the sea or when he gets to the end of the sea? Naturally it means when he gets to the very beginning of the sea.

In the same way, if God says: "until the darkness of the night" it means until the very beginning of the darkness and as mentioned, when it is also night time.

So to sum up, the time to observe the Wusta Salat is any time between noon and sunset.
-------------------
As we have seen, not only do we only have three names of prayers in the Quran, we also have three defined times for prayer in the Quran. Those who follow five prayers a day cannot find names of more than three salat in the book, nor can they find defined times for their five prayers in the Quran. All their information comes from sources outside the Quran. They do that because they claim that the Quran does not have all the details. And by doing so, they demonstrate their disbelief in God's assurances that the Quran is fully detailed (6:114) and that nothing has been left out of the book (6:38)!

The diagram below, constructed by brother Paul hemmut, shows the exact times for the 3 Quranic Salat:

Fourth: The usual manipulations

Since there are only three named salat in the Quran, the advocates of the five salat have tried to manipulate a number of Quranic words to enforce their non Quranic five salat tradition. The following are some of their manipulations:

- Some have claimed that the word 'zahira' in 24:58 refers to the salat which they call by the same name. The advocates of the 5 prayers have tried to manipulate this word in 24:58 so as to authorise a salat called 'zohr'. But If we look at verse 24:58, we note that the word 'salat' is related only to 2 Salats (Fajr and Esha), and we also note that God only speaks of the 'time of day' (not salat name) which God calls Zahira (zohr). If there is a Salat called Salat Al-Zohr, wouldn't we expect to see the words 'salat Al-Zahira/Zohr' in 24:58, just like God mentions Salat Al-Fajr and Salat Al-Esha in the same verse by their name? The time of 'zahira' spoken of in 24:58 is a time which God reserves for privacy as the words in 24:58 explain, and is not a name for a salat.

- Some have also tried to manipulate various Quranic verses which speak of the time of 'Asr' (afternoon) such as 103:1, but once again when we read 103:1 we do not see any mention of the word salat. Asr is merely a time of the day which God refers to. The Quran also speaks of other times of the day such as 'duha' (morning) in 93:1, but once again this is not a reference to a salat by that name. The concept of salat is not mentioned directly or indirectly in any of these verses.

- Yet another case of manipulation is by those who have tried to change the meaning of the Quranic word 'tasbeeh' (glorification) to indicate salat. The Quran invites us to glorify God at various times of the day (3:41, 20:130, 50:39). The act of 'tasbeeh' is different from the act of salat. Tasbeeh (glorifying God) can be done at any time and has no pre-requisites, but salat has specific times of the day and can only be done according to specific rules such as ablution, facing qibla .. etc.

Fifth: The sun given as the timer

Many centuries ago in the old days, people did not have printed lists of times of prayers and astronomical charts, etc. They could not do like we do now, turn on the radio or TV or obtain a Prayer Timetable. However, God must have given a means to determine the times of prayers even for those early communities who did not have the facilities we have today. God must have given them a natural means of determining the times of the prayers.

All the three salat are timed in reference to the movement of the sun in our sky. This is a natural method which can be applied by all people and long before the human devised the sophisticated astronomical charts.

As long as there is any light in the sky (before sunrise and after sunset) we know it is the time for Fajr and Isha respectively.

With the Salat Al-Wusta it is also very easy. When we see no shadow below us when we stand, we know that this is when the sun is highest in the sky. When we start to see the smallest shadow, this is the beginning of the salat al-wusta, it ends when the sun sets. It cannot be easier!

Sixth: The issue of the 'raka'

Finally we come to the issue of how many raka to be observed in each Salat.

The cycle of standing, bowing and prostrating is traditionally called a 'raka'. According to Quranic law, God did not specify any specific number of raka to be observed in the Salat. More important, the word raka does not appear anywhere in the Quran, so we must discard it and only think in terms of standing, bowing and prostrating while commemorating God alone.

The advocates of the 5 prayers claim that the number of raka to be observed during each of the 5 prayers is 24434 respectively. In other words, 2 raka's at fajr, then 4 raka during their 'zohr' prayer, and so on.

For a start, and since there are only three Salat decreed by God for the believers, then this 24434 format is false.

A different group who also advocate the 5 prayer format have come up with some calculations based on the number 19 to claim that the 24434 format has been preserved since Abraham.

These calculations have been proven to be coincidental and thus cannot be considered in any way as divine signs. For more details on this matter, please check the following page: The code 19 and the 24434 format

Some other scholars have claimed that the minimum number of Raka during any prayer must be two. They base their claim on the Quranic concession to shorten the Salat at times of war (4:101). They state that if we are given indication to shorten the Salat, then it must be at least two Raka, that is because it is not feasible to shorten the salat if it were made of just one Raka!

The error in this interpretation is double edged:

1- It is based on a non Quranic concept which is the raka.

2- It is also in error because the Quranic concession to shorten the salat is time related, it is not related to the raka frequency. As mentioned, the concept of 'raka' is not a Quranic concept. The Quran speaks of standing, bowing and prostration without any time or frequency restrictions, which allows us to spend the time we wish in any of these positions. In other words, one can spend one minute in the standing position or ten minutes. One could read the Al-Fatiha (The Key) once or ten times. Equally one may praise God during prostration three times or 20 times. One could prostrate once or five times, and so on.

If we add the fact that different people exercise different speeds in uttering their prayers, then we are once again compelled to accept that shortening the salat is related to the overall time we give to the Salat and not to the number of raka's.

The concession to shorten the Salat given in 4:101 is thus a time related one. God is telling us if you normally spend (as an example) 10 minutes in your Salat, you may spend 2 or 3 minutes when you are at war.

Apart from the fixed one month decreed for fasting, we find that none of the other Islamic practices and rituals have been given a fixed frequency in the Quran, and for a great wisdom too. For more details please see: The Missing Frequencies
Reply

فصيح الياسين
11-01-2016, 02:00 AM
Originally Posted by Regrets1
I asked her and her answer shocked me. She's not that person anymore il post what she said below its abit long but reading little bit of it will tell you how she is now.
Dear muslim sis thanks. Today i feeling strange by reading most of it.. feeling anger cry confusion laughing.... what is she...
U are very calm one .. if i were u .. i took her to highway and gave her under the truck...

Sigh.. as can u ask wht she say about fast. I mean how to perform it. So i can her false ijtihad more.. though this will for knowledge only cuz above u wrote clears all..
I am amazed who taught her like this. It it would be years spent on her.. to make her mind like this...
Reply

islamirama
11-01-2016, 02:32 AM
Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين
Dear muslim sis thanks. Today i feeling strange by reading most of it.. feeling anger cry confusion laughing.... what is she...
U are very calm one .. if i were u .. i took her to highway and gave her under the truck...

Sigh.. as can u ask wht she say about fast. I mean how to perform it. So i can her false ijtihad more.. though this will for knowledge only cuz above u wrote clears all..
I am amazed who taught her like this. It it would be years spent on her.. to make her mind like this...
No need to ask more about it. That post is a strong indication enough on it's own. It's clear that some deviant clown is misleading her and she is following them like a sheep. This is how tahir qadri is as well. His people have you doing sajda in his feet and the people are ignorantly doing it as well. Unless someone they know personally and close enough to them that can knock some sense into them, they won't listen.
Reply

فصيح الياسين
11-01-2016, 02:33 AM
And muslim sis also ask few questions more for me so our knowledge get increase on upcoming fitnas. frm her answer dont get hurt ok.. she need doctor

Is tahjud prayer is compulsory


Can girl marry more thn one husband at time cuz quran said marry two three or 4 ..

When one performing hajj and after completing he open ihram is it compulsory to go for hunt as allah said واذا حللتم فصطادوا

What u say about this ayah سورة الكهف, الآية 29:
وقل الحق من ربكم فمن شاء فليؤمن ومن شاء فليكفر إنا أعتدنا للظالمين نارا أحاط بهم سرادقها وإن يستغيثوا يغاثوا بماء كالمهل يشوي الوجوه بئس الشراب وساءت مرتفقا
As allah saying who want do shirk and who want to accept islam

If person do not pray on time or keep fast should whe do qadha of it or not

Does quran revealed on our prophet as voice or as written and why are harkat on words like fatha jar and dhama quran never said to put these harakt in it


Also do allah have hands as allah said in quran
سورة الفتح, الآية 10:
إن الذين يبايعونك إنما يبايعون الله يد الله فوق أيديهم فمن نكث فإنما ينكث على نفسه ومن أوفى بما عاهد عليه الله فسيؤتيه أجرا عظيما

سورة المائدة, الآية 64:
وقالت اليهود يد الله مغلولة غلت أيديهم ولعنوا بما قالوا بل يداه مبسوطتان ينفق كيف يشاء وليزيدن كثيرا منهم ما أنزل إليك من ربك طغيانا وكفرا وألقينا بينهم العداوة والبغضاء إلى يوم القيامة كلما أوقدوا نارا للحرب أطفأها الله ويسعون في الأرض فسادا والله لا يحب المفسدين


Hope u dont mind about this
Reply

فصيح الياسين
11-01-2016, 02:53 AM
Originally Posted by islamirama
No need to ask more about it. That post is a strong indication enough on it's own. It's clear that some deviant clown is misleading her and she is following them like a sheep. This is how tahir qadri is as well. His people have you doing sajda in his feet and the people are ignorantly doing it as well. Unless someone they know personally and close enough to them that can knock some sense into them, they won't listen.
Dear bro we need such information to keep in our records for certain works in madaris.. also i am against tahir ul qadri and people not prostrating him but actually kissing his feet..
Reply

Insaanah
11-02-2016, 04:23 PM
:salam: Sister regrets1,

The points made in the video and in the post you posted, have already been addressed in the thread that I linked to. Quranists cannot even agree how many times to pray. Some say two times, some say three times, and some say five times, as I mentioned here in this post: http://www.islamicboard.com/hadith/1...ml#post2845654

That thread proves from the Quran that a sunnah outside of the Quran was revealed to the prophet :saws:, and that it must be followed and that not to do so is a sin and misguidance. She needs to show us, why and how, that proof from the Qur'an she claims to follow, doesn't count. But she hasn't.

Please do not bring any more posts/videos things from her if she is not willing to read, ponder and address the points made, because all it does is spread Qur'anists propaganda for them.

she's not ready to listen to or believe anything.
It sounds exactly like that. At the moment it sounds like she doesn't believe in anything, neither the Qur'an she claims to follow, nor the Prophets :saws: sunnah. Allah knows best.

She said "we should not be following any narration that is not from Allah swt"
It has been proven from the Qur'an, in the above linked thread, that the sunnah of the Prophet :saws: is from Allah. So she should be following it then, by her own beliefs.

The hadeeth rejectors ensnare and entrap people with their so called logic, putting doubts in people's minds, but actually their so-called logic is misplaced, misguided, and self contradictory.

May Allah bring her back to the straight path and save her from misguidance, ameen.
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Supernova
11-05-2016, 09:13 AM
Originally Posted by Search
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

Sister, either your friend has misunderstood what the teachers are teaching or some really bad teachers are giving lectures in this so-called "islamic school."

There is zero way a person can understand the Qur'an without the aegis of ahadith (prophetic traditions); if a person rejects ahadith (prophetic traditions) altogether, that person essentially becomes a non-Muslim and would be characterized that way under shariah (Islamic law).

Frankly, what's more likely to have happened is that your friend has learned some ahadith that she didn't really like due to finding them facially harsh (without learning as yet context) and in the process of learning that there is a possibility that some ahadith can possibly be characterized as weak, she thinks she's found a loophole to reject them altogether. However, even some of the weak ahadith are characterized as such due to the chain of transmission and not because they're not true. I fear for your friend's iman (faith) and I ask that you pray for her and do not let her influence you in this matter because she's not even 1% correct.



:wa: (And peace be upon you)
Asalaamualaykum
There are actually groups that reject Hadeeth openly - so it is possible she walked right into these groups. I am refering to your first statement of either or - i am merely pointing out the third option that these groups do exist and openly declare it.
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فصيح الياسين
11-05-2016, 09:34 AM
Originally Posted by samirbrazendale
Asalaamualaykum
There are actually groups that reject Hadeeth openly - so it is possible she walked right into these groups. I am refering to your first statement of either or - i am merely pointing out the third option that these groups do exist and openly declare it.
Where i will find these idiots then.... to hit them really heard for miss guidance to the Muslims
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