PDA

View Full Version : Which Maddhab do you follow?



Delete.
11-01-2016, 10:51 PM
A'salamu alaykum.

Anonymous poll.

And, is there anywhere that teaches the 4 Maddhabs simultaneously, so as to compare and contrast them? And just generally learn about them
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
crimsontide06
11-02-2016, 12:07 AM
I honestly do not understand these "4 schools of thought". I know that a Muslim is supposed to ONLY take their religious and moral beliefs from the Quran and sunnah..

Do these schools of thought make up their own laws/beliefs?
Reply

Delete.
11-02-2016, 12:10 AM
Originally Posted by crimsontide06
I honestly do not understand these "4 schools of thought". I know that a Muslim is supposed to ONLY take their religious and moral beliefs from the Quran and sunnah..

Do these schools of thought make up their own laws/beliefs?
No they don't, all of them interpret their laws/beliefs based on the Qur'an and Sunnah.
Reply

Supernova
11-02-2016, 12:16 AM
Asalaamualaykum
No - I don't think so.

To learn one madab on its own is years and years of study.

Also you must understand that knowing the masaail of a madhab is actually the easy part, knowing the derivation of it is totally another.

Very beautiful topic, but I don't think any place would attempt to teach it as it gets VERY complex.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Delete.
11-02-2016, 12:18 AM
Originally Posted by samirbrazendale
Asalaamualaykum
No - I don't think so.

To learn one madab on its own is years and years of study.

Also you must understand that knowing the masaail of a madhab is actually the easy part, knowing the derivation of it is totally another.

Very beautiful topic, but I don't think any place would attempt to teach it as it gets VERY complex.
Wa alaykum a'salam. Then how do people determine which one to follow? (I mean, those people who say we should only follow one)
Reply

Supernova
11-02-2016, 12:24 AM
Originally Posted by ___
Wa alaykum a'salam. Then how do people determine which one to follow? (I mean, those people who say we should only follow one)
The average person can follow any madhab. Normally it would be a madhab that most of the community follows as he would have access to scholars. There is no right and wrong madhab from the main 4. You must understand that there were actually more than 4 but the 4 became mainstream due to the topics covered and the organization of the how it was put forward.
Reply

Mustafa16
11-02-2016, 12:54 AM
My parents claim to be Hanafi, but we have some rules which are against Hanafi, which lead me to believe we are in our own category as Gulenists.....Gulenist is a follower of the Gulen movement. For instance, eating shellfish is forbidden in the Hanafi madhab, while it is allowed among my family and Gulenist friends. We also don't believe in death penalty for apostasy, death penalty for blasphemy, forbidding music, that Christians and Jews go to hell regardless of their deeds, and that growing a beard is required........Goodness, I sound like a deviant....
Reply

فصيح الياسين
11-02-2016, 02:15 AM
Originally Posted by ___
A'salamu alaykum.

Anonymous poll.

And, is there anywhere that teaches the 4 Maddhabs simultaneously, so as to compare and contrast them? And just generally learn about them
Ahnaf fiqha books and usool some of shafi madhab contrast with it.. but its alot better for person who is not talib ilm tht be away frm contrast and difference between them. As it result confusion to act upon
Reply

فصيح الياسين
11-02-2016, 02:19 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
My parents claim to be Hanafi, but we have some rules which are against Hanafi, which lead me to believe we are in our own category as Gulenists.....Gulenist is a follower of the Gulen movement. For instance, eating shellfish is forbidden in the Hanafi madhab, while it is allowed among my family and Gulenist friends. We also don't believe in death penalty for apostasy, death penalty for blasphemy, forbidding music, that Christians and Jews go to hell regardless of their deeds, and that growing a beard is required........Goodness, I sound like a deviant....
These are not good beliefs u said...
4 madhaib are not out of islam.. all proved frm quran and ahadith.. and about christian and jews about hell or listening music.. its very very against quran and ahadith
Reply

فصيح الياسين
11-02-2016, 02:20 AM
I love all four madhahib but I follow hanafi madhab and also respect imam malik shafi and hanbal same as imam aba hanifa r.a all are our grand teachers and are frm al sunnah wal jamat
Reply

aaj
11-02-2016, 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
My parents claim to be Hanafi, but we have some rules which are against Hanafi, which lead me to believe we are in our own category as Gulenists.....Gulenist is a follower of the Gulen movement. For instance, eating shellfish is forbidden in the Hanafi madhab, while it is allowed among my family and Gulenist friends. We also don't believe in death penalty for apostasy, death penalty for blasphemy, forbidding music, that Christians and Jews go to hell regardless of their deeds, and that growing a beard is required........Goodness, I sound like a deviant....
Yea that is Gluenism not Islam. He is just a liberal guy you are following, not a sunni scholar. We should follow Quran and Sunnah not any movement guy who promotes otherwise.
Reply

InToTheRain
11-02-2016, 03:09 PM
:salam:

Understanding the Four madhabs:
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/newmadhh.htm


Originally Posted by Mustafa16
My eating shellfish is forbidden in the Hanafi madhab
It's not forbidden but Makrooh.
http://islamqa.org/hanafi/tafseer-raheemi/51968
Reply

Yahya.
11-02-2016, 05:12 PM
There are some fiqh books containing the rules of all 4 madhhabs, but I don't know if any English translations are available.
Reply

mission2succeed
11-02-2016, 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by Yahya.
There are some fiqh books containing the rules of all 4 madhhabs, but I don't know if any English translations are available.
volume 1 has been translated which covers a lot of prayer.
Reply

فصيح الياسين
11-02-2016, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by Yahya.
There are some fiqh books containing the rules of all 4 madhhabs, but I don't know if any English translations are available.
Whats name of tht booj
Reply

Delete.
11-02-2016, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by Yahya.
There are some fiqh books containing the rules of all 4 madhhabs, but I don't know if any English translations are available.
A'salamu alaykum. Can you please post the names of them? If possible, in sha Allah. They don't have to be in English, that's fine. JazakAllahu khayr.
Reply

anatolian
11-02-2016, 05:52 PM
It is best to learn the religion from Quran and Sahih Sunnah for yourself. However, these Imams had given people an established "program" according to their own understanding of Quran and Sahih Sunnah.

I try to follow Imam Abu Hanifa. He differs from other Imams with taking not only the litteral first meanings of the verses but taking everything with the wider content by making comparison to entire Quran and Sahih Sunnah. But, this doesnt mean that Hanafi madhhab is superior to other madhabs. This is just why I think it is more accurate.
Reply

Yahya.
11-03-2016, 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by ___
A'salamu alaykum. Can you please post the names of them? If possible, in sha Allah. They don't have to be in English, that's fine. JazakAllahu khayr.
Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين
Whats name of tht booj
wa alaykum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

al-Fiqh 'ala madhahib al-Arba'a, Abdurrahman al-Jazeeri الفقه على المذاهب الأربعة - عبد الرحمن الجزيري
Turkish translation in 8 volumes

Bidayatul Mujtahid by Ibn Rushd (Averroes) بداية المجتهد ابن رشد
Turkish translation also existing :)

''al-Fiqh al-Islami wa adillatuh'' by Syrian scholar Wahba Zuhayli: وهبة الزحيلي الفقه الاسلامي وادلته
There is a turkish translation of this book in 10 volumes, contains the views of the 4 madhhabs, but not always on all topics, mostly I see that of Hanafi madhhab here
Reply

anatolian
11-03-2016, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by ___
Wa alaykum a'salam. Then how do people determine which one to follow? (I mean, those people who say we should only follow one)
Actually people don't determine it. They follow their parents' and society's madhhab since all madhabs are regarded true by mainstream Sunni Islam. I think you are a revert Muslim and looking for a certain madhhab to follow?
Reply

Delete.
11-03-2016, 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Actually people don't determine it. They follow their parents' and society's madhhab since all madhabs are regarded true by mainstream Sunni Islam. I think you are a revert Muslim and looking for a certain madhhab to follow?
No, I am not. (Also, that is a rather personal question to direct at a sister, in my opinion). I don't follow any Maddhab I just think it would be good to have knowledge on them. In Morocco we follow Maliki, and I am just interested in learning about all of them at this point, that's all. It is good to know what evidence of the Qur'an and Sunnah they derive their rulings from and why some are different. Allah knows best.
Reply

aaj
11-03-2016, 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by ___
No, I am not. (Also, that is a rather personal question to direct at a sister, in my opinion). I don't follow any Maddhab I just think it would be good to have knowledge on them. In Morocco we follow Maliki, and I am just interested in learning about all of them at this point, that's all. It is good to know what evidence of the Qur'an and Sunnah they derive their rulings from and why some are different. Allah knows best.

Not that there is anything wrong in this. I think its best left to those pursuing islamic studies. We should focus on first learning everything we can about one mahdab that we follow and implementing it/islam fully in our lives inhsallah.
Reply

anatolian
11-03-2016, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by ___
No, I am not. (Also, that is a rather personal question to direct at a sister, in my opinion). I don't follow any Maddhab I just think it would be good to have knowledge on them. In Morocco we follow Maliki, and I am just interested in learning about all of them at this point, that's all. It is good to know what evidence of the Qur'an and Sunnah they derive their rulings from and why some are different. Allah knows best.
OK. I see. No problem. Though, I couldnt understand what you mean in the paranthesis.
Reply

keiv
11-03-2016, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Actually people don't determine it. They follow their parents' and society's madhhab since all madhabs are regarded true by mainstream Sunni Islam. I think you are a revert Muslim and looking for a certain madhhab to follow?
I'm not going to lie. I'm not very familiar with the different madhabs or the topic all together but, I do have one question. If there are differences between them, how can they all be true?

Originally Posted by InToTheRain
:salam:

Understanding the Four madhabs:
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/newmadhh.htm




It's not forbidden but Makrooh.
http://islamqa.org/hanafi/tafseer-raheemi/51968
Looks like I have a lot of reading to do. JazakAllah
Reply

drac16
11-03-2016, 10:57 PM
I don't identify with any Madhab. I'm not committed to any one of them. :hmm:
Reply

Delete.
11-03-2016, 11:13 PM
A'salamu alaykum...

Originally Posted by aaj
Not that there is anything wrong in this. I think its best left to those pursuing islamic studies. We should focus on first learning everything we can about one mahdab that we follow and implementing it/islam fully in our lives inhsallah.
I am pursuing Islamic Studies, Alhamdulilah.

Originally Posted by keiv
I'm not going to lie. I'm not very familiar with the different madhabs or the topic all together but, I do have one question. If there are differences between them, how can they all be true?
Because each of the Maddhabs derive their rulings from the Qur'an and Sunnah, but how each of them interpret it can be different (that is why I started this thread, to learn about that in sha Allah). All human beings make mistakes and even the four Imams, may Allah have Mercy on them, stated that if any of their rulings go against the Qur'an and Sunnah, then disregard them. I made a thread on some of their sayings. So instead of just following one Maddhab, because society follows it or our family does, it would be more beneficial to look at why and how they came to their specific rulings, and with what evidence. Allah knows best.

Originally Posted by drac16
I don't identify with any Madhab. I'm not committed to any one of them. :hmm:
It is not obligatory to be committed to one, brother.
Reply

aaj
11-04-2016, 01:15 AM
Originally Posted by ___
A'salamu alaykum...



I am pursuing Islamic Studies, Alhamdulilah.
May Allah make it easy for you and good for you and a benefit for others inshallah. Still, i would think you would need to know the madhab of your region first before dwelling into the other ones. Regardless, you should ask your teachers for this information. Being in the field of deen they should be better aware of the resources you can use.
Reply

keiv
11-04-2016, 01:58 AM
Originally Posted by ___
A'salamu alaykum...



I am pursuing Islamic Studies, Alhamdulilah.



Because each of the Maddhabs derive their rulings from the Qur'an and Sunnah, but how each of them interpret it can be different (that is why I started this thread, to learn about that in sha Allah). All human beings make mistakes and even the four Imams, may Allah have Mercy on them, stated that if any of their rulings go against the Qur'an and Sunnah, then disregard them. I made a thread on some of their sayings. So instead of just following one Maddhab, because society follows it or our family does, it would be more beneficial to look at why and how they came to their specific rulings, and with what evidence. Allah knows best.



It is not obligatory to be committed to one, brother.
JazakAlla for the clarification
Reply

anatolian
11-04-2016, 02:28 PM
Apart from this topic I would recommend all Muslims and even non-Muslims to read the life story of Imam Abu Hanifa. It is very inspiring.
Reply

Love_Sahabah
11-11-2016, 10:56 PM
I follow Shafi Madhab. Alhamdulilah
Reply

Huzaifah ibn Adam
11-11-2016, 11:28 PM
Download and read this Kitaab:

https://islamfuture.files.wordpress....g-a-madhab.pdf

"The Legal Status of Following a Madhab", by Mufti Taqi Uthmani.
Reply

talibilm
11-12-2016, 03:02 AM
Originally Posted by keiv
I'm not going to lie. I'm not very familiar with the different madhabs or the topic all together but, I do have one question. If there are differences between them, how can they all be true?


Looks like I have a lot of reading to do. JazakAllah
:sl: bro

Hadith says that Halal is clear and the haram is clear so fiqh are MAINLY MINOR secondary differences that are involved during implementing is some matters of Islam mainly regarding the worship and they are mainly the secondary parts of the worship as well like sunnah (not in Fards). example there is no difference even in fiqh with most obligatory actions of salah but mostly in sunnah since Prophet had done in different methods so any method is acceptable. So its ignorance to argue as some do on Fiqh to the extent of creating disunity which is GREATEST HARAM in Islam. We also see imam Abu Hanifa was the tutor of Imam Malik and imam malik was tutor of Imam Shafi but still they could co exist .


An Example will make you clear . (IN SHORT) In salah or prayer the standing (kiyam) the rukoo, the sujudh the tashahud ,(sitting) the qirat, the number of rakat etc are basic fard acts leaving them will invalidate the salah, So they are the same in all of those fiqhs but only differ in keeping their hands while standing and doing rafayadain after ruko etc LEAVING THESE THINGS WILL NEVER INVALIDATE THE SALAH , THE DIFFERENCES are MAINLY MOSTLY in the MINOR secondary rules THAT ADD VALUE TO THOSE WORSHIPS so hope you understood that that's why any one following any fiqh can pray together following the other fiqh and there is no harm in it.
Reply

noraina
11-12-2016, 10:21 AM
Assalamu alaykum,

As I was growing up, I did not know about the existence of madhabs, as far as I was concerned they didn't exist. I remember it was only a couple of years ago when I began to study Islam I realised they existed - and I almost half-heartedly went for the Hanafi madhab for the reason because the books in our Islamic store dealt only with the Hanafi madhab - it was easier for me to study it as it was more accessible.

No school of thought is wrong, each one is as well-supported by evidence as the next. I went for one because I had literally no knowledge of the deen and needed this 'guideline' to keep me on track. Altho as I study more I would like to read about all of the madhabs inshaAllah.
Reply

Supernova
11-12-2016, 10:51 AM
Originally Posted by noraina
Assalamu alaykum,

As I was growing up, I did not know about the existence of madhabs, as far as I was concerned they didn't exist. I remember it was only a couple of years ago when I began to study Islam I realised they existed - and I almost half-heartedly went for the Hanafi madhab for the reason because the books in our Islamic store dealt only with the Hanafi madhab - it was easier for me to study it as it was more accessible.

No school of thought is wrong, each one is as well-supported by evidence as the next. I went for one because I had literally no knowledge of the deen and needed this 'guideline' to keep me on track. Altho as I study more I would like to read about all of the madhabs inshaAllah.
Asalaamualaykum
This simple honest answer is in a reality the very reason a madhab( any of the mainstream 4) actually became prominent. I would recommend that all read this answer with great astuteness.

There is one more thing I would like to point out regarding following a madhab. It must be understood that the 4 mainstream madhab were derived from Quran and Sunnah by not only knowledgeable Jurists but also PIOUS JURISTS.

When the people of todays time look at these 4 jurists, they commonly forget the piety factor that contributed to their works.

Just to put this into perspective - I follow the hanafi school of thought however I'd like to share something amazing about Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal.

When he passed away, people continued coming to make dua at the grave for aprox 1 week. The estimated number of that total in one week is 1.3 million !!!

Today we (including our scholars) will be lucky even if our relatives pitch up at our funeral, or even remember to make dua for that matter.
Reply

ardianto
12-02-2016, 02:48 PM
:sl:

If you ask Indonesian Muslims "Which madhab do you follow?", mostly of them would ask you back "What is madhab?". But if you ask them "Are you NU, Muhammadiyah, or Persis?", they would answer quickly.

Muslims in Indonesia are not represented by madhab, but by organization. The three biggest organization that I mention above, and many other smaller organizations.

The biggest, Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) is traditionalist organization that follow Shafi'i fiqh, but often satirized as "Shafi'i Furu" that follow Shafi'iyah in fururiyah matter while its ushul is Wallahualam. Muhammadiyah is reformist organization that adopt the thoughts from Rashid Rida. And Persis is reformist organization that very strict in matter of bidah.

Basically there are only two madhab in Indonesia, Shafi'i and non-madhab. Tablighi Jamat and Hizbut Tahrir do exist in Indonesia, but I am not sure if they follow Hanafi madhab.
Reply

fyi
12-04-2016, 12:02 AM
Madhab is important as it takes away the chances for normal people like us to actually understand the Quran without having the chance to misinterpreting it. That's why I believe Muslims, especially at a young age, follow one of the 4 madhab.
Reply

anatolian
12-04-2016, 12:10 AM
The map of the Madhabs

Attachment 5792
Reply

Woodrow
12-04-2016, 02:02 AM
:sl:

I find that the best Madhab to follow is the one followed by the Imam of your Mosque. It prevents confusion.
Reply

azc
12-04-2016, 03:44 AM
Originally Posted by keiv
I'm not going to lie. I'm not very familiar with the different madhabs or the topic all together but, I do have one question. If there are differences between them, how can they all be true?Looks like I have a lot of reading to do. JazakAllah
Where is ilm difference in opinion is inevitable which can be seen in the field of hadith, tafsir, tarikh, ilm arrijal etc - even superficially let alone delving into them.No need to go far, why sh albani, ibn baz, uthaymeen differ in fiqh and aqida,,,- despite being the part of the same sect...? https://ia902205.us.archive.org/17/i...in_Ijaz_sc.pdf
Reply

azc
12-04-2016, 03:57 AM
Originally Posted by drac16
I don't identify with any Madhab. I'm not committed to any one of them. :hmm:
'' wa la ta'tabi'ul hawa'' don't follow your whims...'' be careful as you are prone to follow/change the deen according to your ''desires''
Reply

talibilm
12-05-2016, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by noraina
Assalamu alaykum,

As I was growing up, I did not know about the existence of madhabs, as far as I was concerned they didn't exist. I remember it was only a couple of years ago when I began to study Islam I realised they existed - and I almost half-heartedly went for the Hanafi madhab for the reason because the books in our Islamic store dealt only with the Hanafi madhab - it was easier for me to study it as it was more accessible.

No school of thought is wrong, each one is as well-supported by evidence as the next. I went for one because I had literally no knowledge of the deen and needed this 'guideline' to keep me on track. Altho as I study more I would like to read about all of the madhabs inshaAllah.
:sl: Ukthi

You need not worry since Hanafi Imam is the only Tabeein Imam who has met Sahabas and imam Malik studied under him i think. and Imam shafi studied under Imam Malik. ( stand to be corrected if am wrong) but its a pity that those boasting we are hanafis but still never follow the order of Hanfi Imam not to Call Allah except by Allah Himself . ( iow do not call by your (Allah's) throne etc)
Reply

azc
12-05-2016, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
:sl: I find that the best Madhab to follow is the one followed by the Imam of your Mosque. It prevents confusion.
so if he changes his maslak you will change too...?
Reply

M.I.A.
12-05-2016, 08:33 PM
...i suppose the best imam to follow is the one with the best memory.

if he only reacts to what is put infront of him.. then i suppose there is no madhab at all.

im just venting i suppose, its not what you know after all that gives character.
Reply

azc
12-06-2016, 09:24 AM
Imam Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti(d. 911 AH) said:“The difference found in the four Schools of Islamic law (Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki and Hanbali) in this nation is a huge blessing and an enormous virtue. It has a subtle hidden wisdom the intelligent are able to grasp, but the ignorant are blind of. I have even heard some of them say:...... http://www.darultahqiq.com/do-i-need...llow-a-madhab/
Reply

anatolian
12-07-2016, 04:01 PM
I think the best madhab is "siraat al-mustakeem" the straight path. :)
Reply

azc
12-08-2016, 02:46 AM
Originally Posted by anatolian
I think the best madhab is "siraat al-mustakeem" the straight path. :)
Of course, but what is sirat ul mustaqim..? I think it's 4 madhab
Reply

azc
12-23-2016, 07:25 AM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
...i suppose the best imam to follow is the one with the best memory.if he only reacts to what is put infront of him.. then i suppose there is no madhab at all.im just venting i suppose, its not what you know after all that gives character.
instead of memory taqwa should be the criterion to trust the scholars
Reply

azc
12-23-2016, 07:32 AM
Originally Posted by crimsontide06
I honestly do not understand these "4 schools of thought". I know that a Muslim is supposed to ONLY take their religious and moral beliefs from the Quran and sunnah..Do these schools of thought make up their own laws/beliefs?
it's common of people not understanding the validity of 4 madhab.
Reply

azc
12-23-2016, 07:37 AM
Originally Posted by ___
Wa alaykum a'salam. Then how do people determine which one to follow? (I mean, those people who say we should only follow one)
you may follow one of them. All 4 madhab are haq
Reply

azc
12-23-2016, 07:41 AM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
My parents claim to be Hanafi, but we have some rules which are against Hanafi, which lead me to believe we are in our own category as Gulenists.....Gulenist is a follower of the Gulen movement. For instance, eating shellfish is forbidden in the Hanafi madhab, while it is allowed among my family and Gulenist friends. We also don't believe in death penalty for apostasy, death penalty for blasphemy, forbidding music, that Christians and Jews go to hell regardless of their deeds, and that growing a beard is required........Goodness, I sound like a deviant....
whims shouldn't be followed otherwise this deen becomes a toy to play with
Reply

azc
12-23-2016, 07:48 AM
Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين
Ahnaf fiqha books and usool some of shafi madhab contrast with it.. but its alot better for person who is not talib ilm tht be away frm contrast and difference between them. As it result confusion to act upon
do you mean to difference between shaikhain, sahibain, tarfain...? Or what..?
Reply

azc
12-23-2016, 09:11 AM
Originally Posted by drac16
I don't identify with any Madhab. I'm not committed to any one of them. :hmm:
then brother what is your way to follow Islam...?
Reply

sister herb
12-23-2016, 09:17 AM
Originally Posted by drac16
I don't identify with any Madhab. I'm not committed to any one of them. :hmm:
Same here.
Reply

azc
12-23-2016, 09:56 AM
Originally Posted by sister herb
Same here.
so you like to choose and pick......!
Reply

azc
12-23-2016, 10:52 AM
Originally Posted by samirbrazendale
AsalaamualaykumThis simple honest answer is in a reality the very reason a madhab( any of the mainstream 4) actually became prominent. I would recommend that all read this answer with great astuteness.There is one more thing I would like to point out regarding following a madhab. It must be understood that the 4 mainstream madhab were derived from Quran and Sunnah by not only knowledgeable Jurists but also PIOUS JURISTS.When the people of todays time look at these 4 jurists, they commonly forget the piety factor that contributed to their works. Just to put this into perspective - I follow the hanafi school of thought however I'd like to share something amazing about Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal.When he passed away, people continued coming to make dua at the grave for aprox 1 week. The estimated number of that total in one week is 1.3 million !!!Today we (including our scholars) will be lucky even if our relatives pitch up at our funeral, or even remember to make dua for that matter.
When he passed away, people continued coming to make dua at the grave for aprox 1 week. The estimated number of that total in one week is 1.3 million !!!source please... Did you read it in any book.?
Reply

sister herb
12-23-2016, 10:54 AM
Originally Posted by azc
so you like to choose and pick......!
Sorry I don´t understand what you mean.

If I follow some of them, I don´t notice which one it is. Actually, I don´t put much attention for this matter.
Reply

azc
12-23-2016, 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by sister herb
Sorry I don´t understand what you mean. If I follow some of them, I don´t notice which one it is. Actually, I don´t put much attention for this matter.
its o.k. Sister, i think your intention in understanding deen is good.
Reply

Woodrow
01-05-2017, 01:09 AM
Originally Posted by azc
so if he changes his maslak you will change too...?
:sl:

I think I had best explain. I live in a very Rural area, we are 8 miles from the nearest town and that only has 134 people. Our nearest neighbor is over a mile away and we only have 2 neighbors between us and the town. My wife and myself are the only 2 Muslims within a 100 mile radius. The closest Masjid is 124 miles away. It would be almost ridiculous to not follow the same Madhab as the Imam.
Reply

azc
01-05-2017, 03:09 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
:sl:I think I had best explain. I live in a very Rural area, we are 8 miles from the nearest town and that only has 134 people. Our nearest neighbor is over a mile away and we only have 2 neighbors between us and the town. My wife and myself are the only 2 Muslims within a 100 mile radius. The closest Masjid is 124 miles away. It would be almost ridiculous to not follow the same Madhab as the Imam.
:wa: what you are doing is perfect.
Reply

Scimitar
01-11-2017, 03:53 PM
I make salaah the hanafi way because that is how I was tuaght, but I follow no madhab as I never required it.

I find Islam is simple and natural. I don't require explanations because the questions I once had, are now answered through study and lecture.

Scimi
Reply

noraina
01-11-2017, 04:00 PM
It is pretty much the same with me, I was taught how to read the salah and other small details in the Hanafi way, and that is how I have always done them.

However, I've never found the need to specifically refer to the teachings of a particular madhab for anything to do with my understanding of Islam, the fundamental aspects of the deen are universal and not difficult to understand. And honestly when I am discussing anything with Muslims I can't tell who belongs to which madhab, it's never been much of an issue.
Reply

Scimitar
01-11-2017, 04:12 PM
Generally speaking, all four madhabs agree with each other anyway and only differ on minor points which are really not my concern and do not affect my practice or understanding of Islam.

Scimi
Reply

ardianto
01-11-2017, 04:15 PM
There are only two madhabs in Indonesia. Shafi'i and non-madhabi. One difference between these two madhabs is, Shafi'i perform dua qunoot in salah subh, while non-madhabi do not. But how a masjid accomodate this difference?. Simple, hold salah subuh jamaah twice.
Reply

Scimitar
01-11-2017, 04:18 PM
That's weird
Reply

ardianto
01-11-2017, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
That's weird
But it's better than sharing the room where two groups perform salah subuh together. The problem of sharing the room is Imam's voices that can ruin concentration. Imagine if your group share a room with other other group which Imam in both group recite salah loudly. You would be hard to concentrate because you could hear the voice of Imam from another group too.

So, sharing the time is the best choice, although in this matter the majority get privilege to perform salah subh first.
Reply

noraina
01-11-2017, 04:58 PM
The difference between madhabs overall differ on the most minor of details (the most significant thing I can think of is salah, of course). I am studying Islam in further detail and I've just recently come across mention of the different madhabs and their rulings.

Where I live, I believe the vast, vast majority of hanafi. I've never met anyone who has said they're otherwise.
Reply

AabiruSabeel
01-11-2017, 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
But how a masjid accomodate this difference?. Simple, hold salah subuh jamaah twice.
I don't think it is something over which two Jama'ah must be made. The prayer of one madhhab follower behind the other is valid, because the differences are only with respect to minor things that do not invalidate the prayer.
Reply

ardianto
01-11-2017, 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel
I don't think it is something over which two Jama'ah must be made. The prayer of one madhhab follower behind the other is valid, because the differences are only with respect to minor things that do not invalidate the prayer.
Indeed, but the problem is there are always people who feel uncomfortable if perform salah in different way. But actually this happen only in some masjid where the number of jama'ah from 'minority' is big enough.
Reply

azc
01-11-2017, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
I make salaah the hanafi way because that is how I was tuaght, but I follow no madhab as I never required it.I find Islam is simple and natural. I don't require explanations because the questions I once had, are now answered through study and lecture.Scimi
also I'm hanafi. I assert on this aspect of not adhering to any madhab that it is quite a bold statement which nobody could dare say from 4th century till 150 years ago. Leave laymen even the scholars were hardly found speaking so boldly: I think following one of the madhab is better for our iman and amal. However, everyone has liberty-- what to choose and what to pick
Reply

azc
01-11-2017, 07:52 PM
Imam al-Nawawi said in the introduction ofal-Majmu(1/93):....“Second: It is incumbent on him-to adhere to a Madhab- and it applies to all those from the jurists and scholars of all the sciences who do not reach the rank of ijtihad. The reason for it is that if it was permissible to follow any Madhab he pleases it would lead to seeking out dispensations of the Madhab’s by following his desires. Thus he would choose between the lawful and prohibited, obligation and permissibility, and that would lead to the freeing of the leash of legal responsibility.”
Reply

Scimitar
01-12-2017, 12:11 AM
which madhab was the prophet pbuh?

Scimi
Reply

azc
01-12-2017, 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
which madhab was the prophet pbuh?Scimi
4 madhab are 'explanation' of the deen of prophet s.a.w
Reply

Scimitar
01-12-2017, 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by azc
4 madhab are 'explanation' of the deen of prophet s.a.w
I don't require it, I gravitate naturally towards the contextual understanding of what I study. The Prophet pbuh didn't require any madhab, you know the history of why the four schools were necessitated, and you know why it is not necessary to choose one if you have no reason to.

Some people require it, others do not. It's as simple as that.

Quoting a scholar who claims everyone should choose a madhab or else, just makes me cringe at the haughtiness of the narrative. I'm sure there was a context to why he made the statement, but it would have only applied to a people who would be arguing and confused about their deen.

Today, in this modern world where we have so much information on all topics, including Islam, with translated works which were previously unavailable to the common man, being now extant and in circulation for free on the world wide web - as well as the physical copies of said works being available for purchase in both, shops and online, anyone can study Islam to a level which ensures they have grasped the essential belief, practice and moral fortitude of the religion.

In the past, before printing presses became a thing, it was the scholars who would articulate the nuanced understandings for the common Muslim.

The scholars still do, and there is nothing that, in fact, the wise say spending an hour with a scholar is better reading 100 books.

Allahu alam, even the scholars had to read books.

I wonder if Imam al Nawawi (may Allah be pleased with him) could have foreseen the age we live in today. I highly doubt he could have known the internet and printing presses would become a thing.

Scimi
Reply

oneday
01-12-2017, 02:24 PM
السلام علیکم I am Shia. I am pleased that Member Muslims of site. not important i am shia. it is important: when i know the truth then i accept it. جزاکم الله خیرا
Reply

azc
01-12-2017, 04:32 PM
@Scimitar : Brother, what you've said I don't claim to be wrong though but the fact which you pretermit is that people like imam nawwi ra or hafiz ibn hajar ra who had deep knowledge of Quran hadith, nevertheless, they were the followers of Hz imam Shafi'i ra. Why..? Moreover, the people who were the followers of either of the 4 madhab didn't need to see the translated version of scriptures, rather, they're arabi speaking people and had accessibility to Quran and hadith but they preferred to follow this tradition instead of delving into scriptures themselves.
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-12-2017, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by samirbrazendale
Asalaamualaykum
No - I don't think so.

To learn one madab on its own is years and years of study.

Also you must understand that knowing the masaail of a madhab is actually the easy part, knowing the derivation of it is totally another.

Very beautiful topic, but I don't think any place would attempt to teach it as it gets VERY complex.

Why do you call it beautiful topic???? After Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, dividing Islam into four different ways and breaking the Ummatul Muslimah into four different sects--------- is it beauty?
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-12-2017, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by azc
also I'm hanafi. I assert on this aspect of not adhering to any madhab that it is quite a bold statement which nobody could dare say from 4th century till 150 years ago. Leave laymen even the scholars were hardly found speaking so boldly: I think following one of the madhab is better for our iman and amal. However, everyone has liberty-- what to choose and what to pick


Everyone must know that the imams (Abu Hanifah, Maalik, Hanbal and Shaaf'ee) were great scholars who themselves used to follow the Holy Quraan and Sunnah. Like Abu Bakar Siddeeq rAa, they also had told their people and students, "If we follow the Quraan and Sunnah correctly, then follow us, but if we make a mistake, then don't follow us and correct us".


It was only later when the enemies exaggerated the things. They associated many false things to those imams and tried to divide the Ummah. I heard that at the time of Shah Fesal there were four prayer rugs in the Ka'ba Shareefah. One day Shah Fesal came to the Haram Shareef and saw those four different rugs. He asked about them. He was told that they belonged to the four different madhaahib. He ordered to remove them all. It is one Islam and one Muslim Ummah!


In the light of the Quraan and Sunnah, such inventions are bida' (innovation). All bida' are misleading and all misleading lead to Hell.


You can call them scholars and respect them like all scholars. But no divisions in Deen Islam and no divisions in the Ummah.

We take help from good scholars, try to learn from their books but we must be careful that whatever the scholar says, is according to the Holy Quraan and Sunnah. For that purpose we must try to understand the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah. Remember that the Holy Quraan is made very easy for admonition. So you can learn it easily even if you don't know Arabic, you can learn it through good translation.
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-12-2017, 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
Yea that is Gluenism not Islam. He is just a liberal guy you are following, not a sunni scholar. We should follow Quran and Sunnah not any movement guy who promotes otherwise.


Very Correct, Jazaak-Allaho khera
Reply

azc
01-12-2017, 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Everyone must know that the imams (Abu Hanifah, Maalik, Hanbal and Shaaf'ee) were great scholars who themselves used to follow the Holy Quraan and Sunnah. Like Abu Bakar Siddeeq rAa, they also had told their people and students, "If we follow the Quraan and Sunnah correctly, then follow us, but if we make a mistake, then don't follow us and correct us".It was only later when the enemies exaggerated the things. They associated many false things to those imams and tried to divide the Ummah. I heard that at the time of Shah Fesal there were four prayer rugs in the Ka'ba Shareefah. One day Shah Fesal came to the Haram Shareef and saw those four different rugs. He asked about them. He was told that they belonged to the four different madhaahib. He ordered to remove them all. It is one Islam and one Muslim Ummah!In the light of the Quraan and Sunnah, such inventions are bida' (innovation). All bida' are misleading and all misleading lead to Hell.You can call them scholars and respect them like all scholars. But no divisions in Deen Islam and no divisions in the Ummah. We take help from good scholars, try to learn from their books but we must be careful that whatever the scholar says, is according to the Holy Quraan and Sunnah. For that purpose we must try to understand the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah. Remember that the Holy Quraan is made very easy for admonition. So you can learn it easily even if you don't know Arabic, you can learn it through good translation.
i assume that you listen to the lectures of salafi scholars. Same story, same logic is regurgated on internet and in books over and over again to veer off the people from ages long path of ummah and how to make them the followers of salafi scholars in the name of following Quran and hadith in true sense.
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-16-2017, 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by azc
i assume that you listen to the lectures of salafi scholars. Same story, same logic is regurgated on internet and in books over and over again to veer off the people from ages long path of ummah and how to make them the followers of salafi scholars in the name of following Quran and hadith in true sense.

You are struggling very hard to make the name Muslim and Islam disappear and the Muslims should get lost into the names Ahnaaf, Hanaabil, Malikee and Shaafi'ee. What strange names!!! I wonder. When I was small I heard from my parents that they were Hanafi But there was no word Ahnaaf. In my 8th grade when I didn't know the tafseer of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah, I asked my father, " When Deen is only one and that is Islam then why are there 4 madhaahib?"

My father just said, " they say that there are four madhaahib and (Allah Knows). In fact my question was reasonable and there was no reasonable answer to it. Later I learnt the tafseer of the Holy Quraan and then I went to the Islamic University where I had to argue a lot because all of the teachings were coming in contradictory forms. There were two kinds of books and also two kinds of the teachers. One kind was in accordance with the Holy Quraan and Sunnah, very clear like bright day and the other kind were the invented form going against the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah. One type of books gave the true stories of the past scholars and also told about their actions when the printing machines were invented. The honest teachers used to be polite and always encouraged me. But the other type were very hard, like you trying to enforce the invented theories. So I learned the facts from the Holy Quraan and also in my post graduate studies, not from the internet.



You are calling the madhaahib' history ages long. But you are forgetting that the oldest way is that of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. Islam was completed in the presence of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. No more addition or division is allowed. Yes! Allah said in the Holy Quraan:


3. Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

(Surah Al-Maa'idah verse 3)


So you must remember that the madhaahib were invented long after Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam!!!
Reply

azc
01-16-2017, 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
You are struggling very hard to make the name Muslim and Islam disappear and the Muslims should get lost into the names Ahnaaf, Hanaabil, Malikee and Shaafi'ee. What strange names!!! I wonder. When I was small I heard from my parents that they were Hanafi But there was no word Ahnaaf. In my 8th grade when I didn't know the tafseer of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah, I asked my father, " When Deen is only one and that is Islam then why are there 4 madhaahib?" My father just said, " they say that there are four madhaahib and (Allah Knows). In fact my question was reasonable and there was no reasonable answer to it. Later I learnt the tafseer of the Holy Quraan and then I went to the Islamic University where I had to argue a lot because all of the teachings were coming in contradictory forms. There were two kinds of books and also two kinds of the teachers. One kind was in accordance with the Holy Quraan and Sunnah, very clear like bright day and the other kind were the invented form going against the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah. One type of books gave the true stories of the past scholars and also told about their actions when the printing machines were invented. The honest teachers used to be polite and always encouraged me. But the other type were very hard, like you trying to enforce the invented theories. So I learned the facts from the Holy Quraan and also in my post graduate studies, not from the internet.You are calling the madhaahib' history ages long. But you are forgetting that the oldest way is that of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. Islam was completed in the presence of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. No more addition or division is allowed. Yes! Allah said in the Holy Quraan:3. Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

(Surah Al-Maa'idah verse 3) So you must remember that the madhaahib were invented long after Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam!!!
the same claim I see from hadith rejectors regarding hadith collections.
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-17-2017, 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by azc
the same claim I see from hadith rejectors regarding hadith collections.

What the rejectors of Hadeeth do is their responsibility. I am not responsible for their kuffar. Allah is very just. Allah's Justice is not like yours!!!
Reply

azc
01-17-2017, 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
What the rejectors of Hadeeth do is their responsibility. I am not responsible for their kuffar. Allah is very just. Allah's Justice is not like yours!!!
how do you follow islam... ?
Reply

Scimitar
01-17-2017, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by azc
how do you follow islam... ?
That's the title of a thread which you should make lol, not a question which would take this thread more off topic than it already is - you have an uncanny habit of doing this.

Your question, reminds me of this advert lol:



Scimi
Reply

azc
01-17-2017, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
That's the title of a thread which you should make lol, not a question which would take this thread more off topic than it already is - you have an uncanny habit of doing this. Your question, reminds me of this advert lol: Scimi
Q is related to topic, give the answer, if you want to discuss this topic further.
Reply

Scimitar
01-17-2017, 03:33 PM
What exactly is it you wish to discuss? I've already said what I had to say, for me this topic is a non issue. But for you, it is a fitan, clearly.

So do enlighten us, as to what exactly it is, you wish to discuss.

Scimi
Reply

azc
01-17-2017, 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
What exactly is it you wish to discuss? I've already said what I had to say, for me this topic is a non issue. But for you, it is a fitan, clearly.So do enlighten us, as to what exactly it is, you wish to discuss.Scimi
whether you follow a madhab or not is your personal matter and how you follow Islam, either delving yourself into scriptures or following the prevalent madhab... It's not a big deal for me....... My simple question (How do you follow Islam..?) is not difficult to be replied, I think so
Reply

abuahmed
01-17-2017, 09:02 PM
Assalam Alaykum, discussing about MADHAB to follow is sincerily important and interresting, however I think it is better to start from the beginning: the meaning of MADHAB.
Many of us seem to be knowlegeable about its meaning, still after rereading the reply of others, you surely see that it is vague for them.
Once we agree on its meaning, we may INCHALLAH move forward and continue our discussion.
Discussions may be so fruitful when they are organised and followed step by step with mutual respect.
So Brother/Sister, what does the word MADHAB means to you?
Please be a POSITIVE contributor! CHOUKRANE
Reply

Yahya.
01-17-2017, 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
You are calling the madhaahib' history ages long. But you are forgetting that the oldest way is that of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. Islam was completed in the presence of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. No more addition or division is allowed. Yes! Allah said in the Holy Quraan:


3. Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.


(Surah Al-Maa'idah verse 3)


So you must remember that the madhaahib were invented long after Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam!!!
The madhahib aren't an invention (bid'ah), just like the division of 'ilm into fiqh, hadith, and tafseer are not a bid'ah. Did the prophet (saw) divide knowledge into these categories? No, but the foundation of this lies in the Quran. (Imam Shatibi gives this example in his book al-i'tisaam) These are derived from the Quran. Allah (swt) says: ''so ask the people of the message if you do not know.'' (21:6) The path of the madhahib lead to the companions. Imam Abu Hanifah for example studied under the students of Abdullah ibn Mas'ood in Kufah (Iraq), and Imam Shafi'i was a student of Imam Muhammad, the student of Imam Abu Hanifah. Imam Muhammad had inherited great wealth and he financially supported Imam Shafi'i, so how can this be a division? The madhahib are certainly not preventing brotherhood, just as races are not. We are following Quran and Sunnah through the madhahib whose scholars derive the rules out of these by making ijtihad. How can you expect from the general people ('awaam),a farmer, a worker, to study the religion until he's able to make ijtihad himself, while most people don't even have the sufficient profession in the Arabic language yet? Surely he will ask a scholar in his surrounding, if he lives in Iraq, Turkey, Pakistan or Afghanistan he'll probably get the answer from a Hanafi scholars, if he lives for example in Syria or Yemen from a Shafi'i scholar, in Saudi-Arabia from a Hanbali and in West Africa from a Maliki scholar. All of these scholars rule upon Quran and Sunnah.

Amr ibn Al-As reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “If a judge makes a ruling, striving to apply his reasoning (ijtihad) and he is correct, then he will have two rewards. If a judge makes a ruling, striving to apply his reasoning and he is mistaken, then he will have one reward.” Source: Sahih Bukhari 6919, Sahih Muslim 1716


Harith ibn Amr reported: Some men among the companions of Mu’adh said the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, sent him to Yemen and the Prophet said:
كَيْفَ تَقْضِي How will you judge?
Mu’adh said, “I will judge according to what is in the Book of Allah.”
The Prophet said: فَإِنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ فِي كِتَابِ اللَّهِ What if it is not in the Book of Allah?
Mu’adh said, “Then with the tradition (sunnah) of the Messenger of Allah.”
The Prophet said: فَإِنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ فِي سُنَّةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ What if it is not in the tradition of the Messenger of Allah?
Mu’adh said, “Then I will strive to form an opinion (ijtihad).”
The Prophet said: الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي وَفَّقَ رَسُولَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ All praise is due to Allah who has made suitable the messenger of the Messenger of Allah.
Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 1327, Grade: Sahih

"If we follow the Quraan and Sunnah correctly, then follow us, but if we make a mistake, then don't follow us and correct us".
Just as you said yourself, they told this to their students. Are students of those times equal to the people of today? By studying you could reach a level near to them, that's possible, but you even included general people! Someone just by reading some ahadith and the Quran part time can't make rules on matters of religion, that would cause a greater division than the apparent division you claim, brother.

Holy Quraan is made very easy for admonition. So you can learn it easily even if you don't know Arabic, you can learn it through good translation.
For admonition, of course, but not for making rule on matters concerning fiqh or even 'aqeedah! Quran has muhkam and mutashaabih verses (reference: Quran, 03/07), muhkam verses, which constitute of approximately 500 verses, can be understood by the common people, but some even dare to talk on 'aqeedah referring to mutashabih verses. Mutashabih verses are where words can indicate more than one meaning, for example.


Reply

M.I.A.
01-17-2017, 09:43 PM
http://corpus.quran.com/translation....er=45&verse=17

im assuming the above does not relate to the muslims.. although im am not qualified to interpret quran.. im a laymen at best.

but if the differing is only a little and in interpretation then the above really does not apply..

there should not be any real animosity between them/us.
Reply

azc
01-18-2017, 08:10 AM
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhab.htm
Reply

azc
01-18-2017, 09:18 AM
Definition : ''The Madhab is the facilitated version of Islamic jurisprudence driven from Quran and Sunnah in accordance with certain rules of/by mujtahidin ra who'd uncanny Islamic vision and extra ordinary deep knowledge of Islamic scriptures, followed and acclaimed by almost all famous personalities of all branches of Islamic science''
Reply

Scimitar
01-18-2017, 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by azc
My simple question (How do you follow Islam..?) is not difficult to be replied, I think so
Dude, that's between me and Allah, and definitely none of your business. And has nothing to do with this thread.

Stop being idiotic.

Scimi
Reply

azc
01-18-2017, 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Dude, that's between me and Allah, and definitely none of your business. And has nothing to do with this thread.Stop being idiotic.Scimi
then, why are you taking interest in this thread...? Hope you'll stay away from my post in this thread.
Reply

Scimitar
01-18-2017, 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by azc
then, why are you taking interest in this thread...? Hope you'll stay away from my post in this thread.
quite simply, to place you on the naughty step, lol

Scimi
Reply

azc
01-18-2017, 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
quite simply, you place you on the naughty step, lolScimi
again............????????
Reply

Scimitar
01-18-2017, 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by azc
again............????????
Dude, don't make this thread about you and me - keep it on topic.

make your points, wait for opinions, and respond - but stay on topic.

If I read something I do not agree with, or something I like, something which interests me, or if I have something to share - I will take part in a thread.

Originally Posted by azc
Hope you'll stay away from my post in this thread.
Wishful thinking :D You don't own this forum. It's free membership, we are all welcome. All I get from you, is noise.

Scimi

EDIT: you can't even follow this topic properly, and you're talking about following madhabs bro... come on. WAKE UP.
Reply

azc
01-18-2017, 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Dude, don't make this thread about you and me - keep it on topic.make your points, wait for opinions, and respond - but stay on topic.If I read something I do not agree with, or something I like, something which interests me, or if I have something to share - I will take part in a thread. Wishful thinking :D You don't own this forum. It's free membership, we are all welcome. All I get from you, is noise.Scimi
I want to discuss this topic with someone who's knowledge of fiqh and hadith, you are lacking wherein
Reply

Scimitar
01-18-2017, 03:10 PM
what qualifies you to discuss such matters? Are you a scholar or student of knowledge? Do you have an ustaad who comes from an unbroken chain of teachers following the traditions of the madhab you sponsor? Are you qualified to discuss these matters?

If the answer is no - you think too highly of yourself.

Laymen, should not attempt to be scholars, you're just some guy on the web - if you want to know about the madhabs, or fiqh - go to scholars you muppet - not to people on forums... sheesh.

Like I said, all I hear from you, is noise. You cause fitan here.

Scimi
Reply

azc
01-18-2017, 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
what qualifies you to discuss such matters? Are you a scholar or student of knowledge? Do you have an ustaad who comes from an unbroken chain of teachers following the traditions of the madhab you sponsor? Are you qualified to discuss these matters?If the answer is no - you think too highly of yourself.Laymen, should not attempt to be scholars, you're just some guy on the web - if you want to know about the madhabs, or fiqh - go to scholars you muppet - not to people on forums... sheesh.Like I said, all I hear from you, is noise. You cause fitan here.Scimi
What qualifications you have to say ''I don't need a madhab''. Even the muhaddisin, mufassirin and scholars followed 4 madhab and still follow. You are neither a scholar nor a muhaddis, nevertheless, you defy the madhabs ;and for me, you want me to be scholar to discuss this thread...? Strange logic..!
Reply

Scimitar
01-18-2017, 03:57 PM
You read my post where I said I didn't require one.

The Prophet pbuh didn't inform me of one - neither did he inform you of one.

I have no problems with those who wish to adopt a madhab - good for them, but for me, I never really questioned the Qur'an or the Sunnah to need explanations of matters which really do not affect me personally.

Seriously bro, I've seen people get twisted over which way to make salaah is the correct way, hands down by the sides, folded at the naval, or at the breast etc... stupid crap like this.

I was taught hanafi way, to make salaah, the majority do it this way, so I am fine - other things do not affect me either, and should I have an issue with some matter in Islam, I can do my own research, and also read the opinions of scholars and come to my own conclusion.

Allah gave me a brain, I don't need someone else to do my thinking for me. Others may, I have no issue with that. So far, I have not said anything on this forum which could be considered kufr, so I do not believe I have to change anything about myself in that sense.

You can opine away as much as you like, but you seem to ignore my posts in this thread because it all goes in one ear and out the other.

Naughty step, now. You been a bad little boy.

Pay attention to people when they take the time to respond to you, bro.

Islam is simple, matters of conflict are not. Glean from that what you will.

Scimi
Reply

sister herb
01-18-2017, 03:59 PM
Ok brothers there, calm down both and shake the hands (or something similar). Back to topic please.

I am wondering why here isn´t any hanbalis (no votes for that option). Are they so rare?
Reply

Scimitar
01-18-2017, 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by azc
What qualifications you have to say ''I don't need a madhab''. Even the muhaddisin, mufassirin and scholars followed 4 madhab and still follow. You are neither a scholar nor a muhaddis, nevertheless, you defy the madhabs ;and for me, you want me to be scholar to discuss this thread...? Strange logic..!
God given logic:

You read my post where I said I didn't require a madhab.

The Prophet pbuh didn't inform me of any madhab - neither did he inform you of one.

I have no problems with those who wish to adopt a madhab - good for them, but for me, I never really questioned the Qur'an or the Sunnah to need explanations of matters which really do not affect me personally.

Seriously bro, I've seen people get twisted over which way to make salaah is the correct way, hands down by the sides, folded at the naval, or at the breast etc... stupid crap like this.

I was taught hanafi way, to make salaah, the majority do it this way, so I am fine - other things do not affect me either, and should I have an issue with some matter in Islam, I can do my own research, and also read the opinions of scholars and come to my own conclusion.

Allah gave me a brain, I don't need someone else to do my thinking for me. Others may, I have no issue with that. So far, I have not said anything on this forum which could be considered kufr, so I do not believe I have to change anything about myself in that sense.

You can opine away as much as you like, but you seem to ignore my posts in this thread because it all goes in one ear and out the other.

Naughty step, now. You been a bad little boy.

Pay attention to people when they take the time to respond to you, bro.

Islam is simple, matters of conflict are not. Glean from that what you will.

Scimi
Reply

azc
01-18-2017, 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
God given logic:You read my post where I said I didn't require a madhab.The Prophet pbuh didn't inform me of any madhab - neither did he inform you of one.I have no problems with those who wish to adopt a madhab - good for them, but for me, I never really questioned the Qur'an or the Sunnah to need explanations of matters which really do not affect me personally.Seriously bro, I've seen people get twisted over which way to make salaah is the correct way, hands down by the sides, folded at the naval, or at the breast etc... stupid crap like this.I was taught hanafi way, to make salaah, the majority do it this way, so I am fine - other things do not affect me either, and should I have an issue with some matter in Islam, I can do my own research, and also read the opinions of scholars and come to my own conclusion.Allah gave me a brain, I don't need someone else to do my thinking for me. Others may, I have no issue with that. So far, I have not said anything on this forum which could be considered kufr, so I do not believe I have to change anything about myself in that sense.You can opine away as much as you like, but you seem to ignore my posts in this thread because it all goes in one ear and out the other.Naughty step, now. You been a bad little boy.Pay attention to people when they take the time to respond to you, bro.Islam is simple, matters of conflict are not. Glean from that what you will.Scimi
when you discuss any topic with me, keep remember what you've written in other posts.
Reply

azc
01-18-2017, 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
Ok brothers there, calm down both and shake the hands (or something similar). Back to topic please. I am wondering why here isn´t any hanbalis (no votes for that option). Are they so rare?
now hambalis are found in books
Reply

ardianto
01-18-2017, 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by sister herb
I am wondering why here isn´t any hanbalis (no votes for that option). Are they so rare?
Compared with Hanafi, Shafi'i, and Maliki, yes, Hanbali are small minority. Their number even smaller than non-madhabi.
Reply

azc
01-18-2017, 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Compared with Hanafi, Shafi'i, and Maliki, yes, Hanbali are small minority. Their number even smaller than non-madhabi.
I wish to meet a hambali, even on different forums I've not seen any hamabli.. Yet......
Reply

abuahmed
01-18-2017, 07:53 PM
Jazzak Allah Kheyr brother for your contribution and this scholarly definition, can you please rewrite it with common terms understandable by all of us, especially our revert brothers and sisters? Tjanks
Reply

azc
01-19-2017, 05:16 AM
Originally Posted by abuahmed
Jazzak Allah Kheyr brother for your contribution and this scholarly definition, can you please rewrite it with common terms understandable by all of us, especially our revert brothers and sisters? Tjanks
perhaps you are referring to post #91 wherein I defined what madhab is... It's my own definition of madhab. What are issues with madhab plz write them one by one
Reply

Scimitar
01-19-2017, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by azc
when you discuss any topic with me, keep remember what you've written in other posts.
You haven't responded to my post and just wrote a blanket statement.

What's the matter? Running out of scholars to quote? Scholars, who I may add, who have done nothing to convince me of following a madhab.

Come on bro, don't bail.

Liven it up. Work my brain, not my boredom.

Scimi
Reply

azc
01-19-2017, 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
You haven't responded to my post and just wrote a blanket statement.What's the matter? Running out of scholars to quote? Scholars, who I may add, who have done nothing to convince me of following a madhab.Come on bro, don't bail.Liven it up. Work my brain, not my boredom.Scimi
who can compel you to follow a madhab..? Indeed, none, but logically there should be any sterling reason why don't you require a madhab. Sadly, you beat about the bush instead of proving your point logically. I asked you a very simple Q: How do you follow Islam..? I'm surprised to see you refrain from answering it..?
Reply

Scimitar
01-19-2017, 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by azc
who can compel you to follow a madhab..? Indeed, none, but logically there should be any sterling reason why don't you require a madhab. Sadly, you beat about the bush instead of proving your point logically. I asked you a very simple Q: How do you follow Islam..? I'm surprised to see you refrain from answering it..?
Brother azc, I have been following Islam. It't not difficult you know?

How did the Sahabi follow Islam? With a madhab?

Our deen is simple bro.

You are looking rather ignorant, considering I have posted my answer to your question and even told you in another post, none of your business, because I see the question as "absolutely stupid".

How do you practice your Islam? :D

Come on bro, any sane person would tell you the same as I do - "with due dilligence". Duh.

Now, if you cannot understand the intended from my answer, it just proves you are fundamentally incapable of understanding anything yourself, and so - people like you - REALLY DO NEED MADHABS.

I simply, do not.

Scimi
Reply

azc
01-19-2017, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Brother azc, I have been following Islam. It't not difficult you know?How did the Sahabi follow Islam? With a madhab?Our deen is simple bro.You are looking rather ignorant, considering I have posted my answer to your question and even told you in another post, none of your business, because I see the question as "absolutely stupid".How do you practice your Islam? :DCome on bro, any sane person would tell you the same as I do - "with due dilligence". Duh.Now, if you cannot understand the intended from my answer, it just proves you are fundamentally incapable of understanding anything yourself, and so - people like you - REALLY DO NEED MADHABS.I simply, do not. Scimi
assalamu alaikum brother
Reply

Scimitar
01-20-2017, 10:44 AM
Wa'alaikum salaam
Reply

ardianto
01-22-2017, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by azc
I wish to meet a hambali, even on different forums I've not seen any hamabli.. Yet......
Probably you have ever met or discuss with a Hanbali Muslim in this forum or others forums. But you didn't know.
Reply

fyi
01-24-2017, 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Why do you call it beautiful topic???? After Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, dividing Islam into four different ways and breaking the Ummatul Muslimah into four different sects--------- is it beauty?
Implying they are 'sects'...

I have yet to meet one Hanafi Imam that would say that either of the other 3 maddhab are wrong. Usually they go saying, all 4 of them are right and we choose the one that is closest to our beliefs. The beauty if maddhab is that it prevents a muslim from taking a wrong step. Look at the current problems of the middle-east, they are all caused by people who thought they knew better. They started to use the Quran in their own interest.

When I was a kid my Islam teacher always said that it was better to abstain from touching, speaking or even being in the same room with them a women. The reason could be that I 'might' fall into zina. Even though some people can stop themselves from falling to Zina there are still alot who might not be able to stop themselves. Which is why it is prohibited. You see this is what makes maddhab important. Maddhab builds a wall inbetween right and wrong. Also there's literally no difference between following a maddhab and not following a maddhab.

1 last thing, you just said that islam was broken into 4 'sects'. Yet your 'way' of not following any maddhab creates, maybe without intention, a new sect. It creates the sect of having no maddhab.

This is where your logic of not following a maddhab gets completely debunked. There's no such thing as following no maddhab. Had every single muslim in the world follown one of the four maddhab we would have 0 trouble in solving the problems inbetween these groups. Because these groups are not sects. It is the same Jamaah: we accept eachother and we can pray together.
Reply

azc
01-24-2017, 08:38 AM
Originally Posted by fyi
Implying they are 'sects'... I have yet to meet one Hanafi Imam that would say that either of the other 3 maddhab are wrong. Usually they go saying, all 4 of them are right and we choose the one that is closest to our beliefs. The beauty if maddhab is that it prevents a muslim from taking a wrong step. Look at the current problems of the middle-east, they are all caused by people who thought they knew better. They started to use the Quran in their own interest. When I was a kid my Islam teacher always said that it was better to abstain from touching, speaking or even being in the same room with them a women. The reason could be that I 'might' fall into zina. Even though some people can stop themselves from falling to Zina there are still alot who might not be able to stop themselves. Which is why it is prohibited. You see this is what makes maddhab important. Maddhab builds a wall inbetween right and wrong. Also there's literally no difference between following a maddhab and not following a maddhab. 1 last thing, you just said that islam was broken into 4 'sects'. Yet your 'way' of not following any maddhab creates, maybe without intention, a new sect. It creates the sect of having no maddhab. This is where your logic of not following a maddhab gets completely debunked. There's no such thing as following no maddhab. Had every single muslim in the world follown one of the four maddhab we would have 0 trouble in solving the problems inbetween these groups. Because these groups are not sects. It is the same Jamaah: we accept eachother and we can pray together.
but those who don't want to understand can't be convinced
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-24-2017, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by fyi
Implying they are 'sects'...

I have yet to meet one Hanafi Imam that would say that either of the other 3 maddhab are wrong. Usually they go saying, all 4 of them are right and we choose the one that is closest to our beliefs. The beauty if maddhab is that it prevents a muslim from taking a wrong step. Look at the current problems of the middle-east, they are all caused by people who thought they knew better. They started to use the Quran in their own interest.

When I was a kid my Islam teacher always said that it was better to abstain from touching, speaking or even being in the same room with them a women. The reason could be that I 'might' fall into zina. Even though some people can stop themselves from falling to Zina there are still alot who might not be able to stop themselves. Which is why it is prohibited. You see this is what makes maddhab important. Maddhab builds a wall inbetween right and wrong. Also there's literally no difference between following a maddhab and not following a maddhab.

1 last thing, you just said that islam was broken into 4 'sects'. Yet your 'way' of not following any maddhab creates, maybe without intention, a new sect. It creates the sect of having no maddhab.

This is where your logic of not following a maddhab gets completely debunked. There's no such thing as following no maddhab. Had every single muslim in the world follown one of the four maddhab we would have 0 trouble in solving the problems inbetween these groups. Because these groups are not sects. It is the same Jamaah: we accept eachother and we can pray together.

Assalaamo alaikum'


You think that there is no difference between the four and we have no restrictions to follow anyone. If you observe the new Muslims in the west, you will see that they say; there are 4 schools of thoughts. Then a sincere new Muslim, instead of opening the Holy Quraan directly, will go into a big diversion and will search for the books written by people to find which of the class is the best to follow!!! So the Quraan which is the Book of Allah Almighty is left and forgotten about, also the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam is left behind. What is chosen to study and understand will be the long books of fiqh written by common people.


Also you will see that many Muslims say that when you select one Madhhab then you remain sticking to it, you cannot change it to the other one!!! This is what makes me very upset. They made the scholar they follow as prophet and they believe that in the Hereafter they will be questioned about it!!!


I sincerely inform all readers that it is only Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam Who has that status, we will be asked about Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and about the Quraan. These two are the first and the last/final to be followed. Any Muslim, a scholar or a non-scolar, who says things in accordance with these two, I accept their words and respect them.


The four scholars of the 4 madhahib didn't make madhahib. They only taught people the Quraan and Sunnah. Even about Imaam Hanbal I read a true story which proves that he didn't tell people his name so that they might not know him as a popular imam. But all these developments are the later happenings at the hands of others who want:


1. to complicate the understanding of Islam as a way of life'

2. to keep the Muslims away from Quraan and the Sunnah.

Just look at the result. Most of the Muslims became unaware of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah and thus the Whole Ummah became so weak that the enemies find it very easy to wipe it out. Only this status of our Ummah is now the best proof to a sincere Muslim to understand that we are not on the right path.


The Final Words of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam for us are: I leave among you TWO THINGS, the Book of Allah and my Sunnah, whoever holds fast to these two will never go astray.


The words of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam shall remain true till the last Day. Then why are now so many Muslims going out of the fold of Islam???


The Answer is: The Muslims are not trying to understand the Quraan and Sunnah. There are many who divert them from the 2 sources towards many fiqh books. So they are ignorant and confused and those who divert them are
responsible in the COURT OF ALLH
Reply

AabiruSabeel
01-24-2017, 06:47 PM
:salam:

Some people are under the misconception that Sunnah and Fiqh are mutually exclusive. That is not the case. In fact, Fiqh explains the Qur'an and Sunnah to the lay people.

Those who call towards Qur'an and Sunnah do not really mean Qur'an and Sunnah, rather they mean to say Qur'an and Hadith. Because Sunnah itself is derived from Hadith and that derivation needs understanding. And that understanding is known as Fiqh.


Let me pose some simple questions to explain why it is a fallacy to call lay people to abandon Fiqh and follow just Qur'an and Hadith:

Allah :swt: says in the Qur'an:
أُحِلَّ لَكُمْ صَيْدُ الْبَحْرِ وَطَعَامُهُ مَتَاعًا لَّكُمْ وَلِلسَّيَّارَةِ ۖ وَحُرِّمَ عَلَيْكُمْ صَيْدُ الْبَرِّ مَا دُمْتُمْ حُرُمًا ۗ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ الَّذِي إِلَيْهِ تُحْشَرُونَ
Lawful to you is game from the sea and its food as provision for you and the travelers, but forbidden to you is game from the land as long as you are in the state of ihram. And fear Allah to whom you will be gathered. [5:96]

It is normally understood from this Ayah that seafood is Halal for us. But we find several types of creatures in the sea, such as sea snakes, tube worms, Squids, Jellyfish, octopus, seahorse, sea pig, frogs, crocodile etc. Are these all supposed to be halal? If not, then what is the criteria for finding out what is Halal from sea creatures and what is not?

The fuqhaha have studied the relevant Ayaat and Ahadeeth and presented some guidelines for determining which of these creatures would be Halal.


At another place, Allah :swt: says:
ۚ وَإِذَا حَلَلْتُمْ فَاصْطَادُوا ۚ
... when you come out of ihram, then hunt. [5:2]

Can anyone say how important it is for a person to go hunting after coming out of ihram? Is it Fardh? because Allah :swt: is commanding it. Or is it Wajib or Sunnah or Nafl?



Now for a few examples from Hadith:

عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ كَانَ إِذَا افْتَتَحَ الصَّلاَةَ قَالَ ‏ "‏ سُبْحَانَكَ اللَّهُمَّ وَبِحَمْدِكَ تَبَارَكَ اسْمُكَ وَتَعَالَى جَدُّكَ وَلاَ إِلَهَ غَيْرُكَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
It was narrated from ‘Aishah :raha: that when the Prophet :saws: started Salat he would say:
Subhanak Allahumma wa bi hamdika, wa tabarakas- muka wa ta’ala jadduka, wa la ilaha ghayruk (Glory and praise is to You, O Allah, blessed is Your Name and exalted is Your majesty, none has the right to be worshipped but You).” [Ibn Majah]

What is the ruling for reciting the above at the start of prayer, is it Fardh, Wajib, Sunnah or Nafl?
If someone forgets to recite this, then does he have to repeat his whole prayer? Or does he have to perform Sajdah Sahw? Or he doesn't have to do anything and his prayer will be valid?


Another example:
عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، قَالَ تَوَضَّأَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم مَرَّةً مَرَّةً‏.‏
Narrated Ibn `Abbas :ra::
The Prophet :saws: performed ablution by washing the body parts only once. [Bukhari]

عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ زَيْدٍ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم تَوَضَّأَ مَرَّتَيْنِ مَرَّتَيْنِ‏.
Narrated `Abdullah bin Zaid :ra::
The Prophet :saws: performed ablution by washing the body parts twice. [Bukhari]

عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، أَنَّ عَطَاءَ بْنَ يَزِيدَ، أَخْبَرَهُ أَنَّ حُمْرَانَ مَوْلَى عُثْمَانَ أَخْبَرَهُ أَنَّهُ، رَأَى عُثْمَانَ بْنَ عَفَّانَ دَعَا بِإِنَاءٍ، فَأَفْرَغَ عَلَى كَفَّيْهِ ثَلاَثَ مِرَارٍ فَغَسَلَهُمَا، ثُمَّ أَدْخَلَ يَمِينَهُ فِي الإِنَاءِ فَمَضْمَضَ، وَاسْتَنْشَقَ، ثُمَّ غَسَلَ وَجْهَهُ ثَلاَثًا، وَيَدَيْهِ إِلَى الْمِرْفَقَيْنِ ثَلاَثَ مِرَارٍ، ثُمَّ مَسَحَ بِرَأْسِهِ، ثُمَّ غَسَلَ رِجْلَيْهِ ثَلاَثَ مِرَارٍ إِلَى الْكَعْبَيْنِ، ثُمَّ قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ مَنْ تَوَضَّأَ نَحْوَ وُضُوئِي هَذَا، ثُمَّ صَلَّى رَكْعَتَيْنِ، لاَ يُحَدِّثُ فِيهِمَا نَفْسَهُ، غُفِرَ لَهُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنْ ذَنْبِهِ ‏"‏‏.‏
Narrated Humran :rh:, (the slave of 'Uthman :ra:) I saw 'Uthman bin 'Affan :ra: asking for a tumbler of water (and when it was brought) he poured water over his hands and washed them thrice and then put his right hand in the water container and rinsed his mouth, washed his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out. then he washed his face and forearms up to the elbows thrice, passed his wet hands over his head and washed his feet up to the ankles thrice. Then he said, "Allah's Messenger :saws: said 'If anyone performs ablution like that of mine and offers a two-rak'at prayer during which he does not think of anything else (not related to the present prayer) then his past sins will be forgiven.' " [Bukhari]


All these are from Sahih Bukhari. Can a layman read these Ahadeeth and determine the Sunnah method of performing wudhu, is it washing the limbs once, or twice or thrice?


You will find several such examples in the Qur'an and Hadith where you will need to follow the guidelines shown by the Fuqaha to understand them properly. Otherwise, simply reading an Ayah or Hadith will cause confusion and there is a big chance of a person being misguided and led into waswasa.

That is why the scholars of the past would say: Hadith are a pitfall except for the Fuqaha’.

Imam Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani al-Maliki رحمه الله narrated that Imam Sufyan ibn Uyaynah رحمه الله said:

“ Hadith are a pitfall except for the Fuqaha’ –> {Legal Jurists},”

Imam Malik’s رحمه الله student and friend `Abd Allah ibn Wahb رحمه الله said:

“The meaning of every Hadith is a pitfall except for the Ulamah {scholars}, means that everyone who memorizes Hadith that does not have an Imam in Fiqh {Law} is misguided, and if Allah had not rescued us with Imam Malik and al-Layth, we would have been misguided.”

...

Imam ash-Shafi’i رحمه الله said: “You –> {the scholars of Hadith} are the pharmacists but we {the jurists} are the physicians.”

Mullah Ali al-Qari رحمه الله commented on this and said:

“The early scholars said:
The Hadith scholar without knowledge of Fiqh is like a seller of drugs who is no physician: he has them but he does not know what to do with them; and the Fiqh scholar without knowledge of Hadith is like a physician without drugs: he knows what constitutes a remedy, but does not have it available.”

Source: http://www.muwatta.com/the-hadith-sc...ledge-of-fiqh/
Reply

azc
01-24-2017, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Assalaamo alaikum' You think that there is no difference between the four and we have no restrictions to follow anyone. If you observe the new Muslims in the west, you will see that they say; there are 4 schools of thoughts. Then a sincere new Muslim, instead of opening the Holy Quraan directly, will go into a big diversion and will search for the books written by people to find which of the class is the best to follow!!! So the Quraan which is the Book of Allah Almighty is left and forgotten about, also the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam is left behind. What is chosen to study and understand will be the long books of fiqh written by common people. Also you will see that many Muslims say that when you select one Madhhab then you remain sticking to it, you cannot change it to the other one!!! This is what makes me very upset. They made the scholar they follow as prophet and they believe that in the Hereafter they will be questioned about it!!! I sincerely inform all readers that it is only Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam Who has that status, we will be asked about Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and about the Quraan. These two are the first and the last/final to be followed. Any Muslim, a scholar or a non-scolar, who says things in accordance with these two, I accept their words and respect them. The four scholars of the 4 madhahib didn't make madhahib. They only taught people the Quraan and Sunnah. Even about Imaam Hanbal I read a true story which proves that he didn't tell people his name so that they might not know him as a popular imam. But all these developments are the later happenings at the hands of others who want: 1. to complicate the understanding of Islam as a way of life' 2. to keep the Muslims away from Quraan and the Sunnah. Just look at the result. Most of the Muslims became unaware of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah and thus the Whole Ummah became so weak that the enemies find it very easy to wipe it out. Only this status of our Ummah is now the best proof to a sincere Muslim to understand that we are not on the right path. The Final Words of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam for us are: I leave among you TWO THINGS, the Book of Allah and my Sunnah, whoever holds fast to these two will never go astray. The words of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam shall remain true till the last Day. Then why are now so many Muslims going out of the fold of Islam??? The Answer is: The Muslims are not trying to understand the Quraan and Sunnah. There are many who divert them from the 2 sources towards many fiqh books. So they are ignorant and confused and those who divert them are responsible in the COURT OF ALLH
I agree with you on this point that we should follow Quran and Sunnah... Can you tell me who decides that which act is a sunnah and which one is not..? I wish to see that every sunnah be proven by the specific dalil whereby Prophet s.a.w himself declared a particular act as '' IT IS MY SUNNAH'' e.g. Al nikahu min sunnati (Nikah is my sunnah). Can you prove it in this way.... If not... Then who decides this matter...? (plz don't quote any hadith if it doesn't have the statement of RasulAllah s.a.w ''It is my sunnah)
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-24-2017, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by azc
I agree with you on this point that we should follow Quran and Sunnah... Can you tell me who decides that which act is a sunnah and which one is not..? I wish to see that every sunnah be proven by the specific dalil whereby Prophet s.a.w himself declared a particular act as '' IT IS MY SUNNAH'' e.g. Al nikahu min sunnati (Nikah is my sunnah). Can you prove it in this way.... If not... Then who decides this matter...? (plz don't quote any hadith if it doesn't have the statement of RasulAllah s.a.w ''It is my sunnah)

I could not understand your question. I am trying to explain a point. If it is not the answer, then please make your question clear.


Someone may wonder how to know about the sanad /truth of a hadeeth, whether it is truly from Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam!


If a Muslim trusts Allah (and what type of Muslim will not trust Allah?), then he/she must start understanding the Holy Quraan by reading it with the translation and tafseer (explanation) little by little every day. He/she shall realize the miraculous nature of the Holy Quraan. In addition to the spiritual pleasure and peace of mind, he/she shall also get a very deep understanding and hikmah (wisdom) by the Mercy of Allah Azza wa Jall. So after that the Muslim shall be able to see a hadeeth in the light of the Holy Quraan and shall easily understand if the Hadeeth is true!!! To such a Muslim the matan (contents) of a hadeeth is important and not the chain of narrators. This is my experience and I heard the same from many scholars.


We must trust Allah that Allah has put such wisdom in HIS miraculous Book that a sincere person shall get fully guided and shall not feel any difficulty in the understanding of the true ahaadeeth. Such a reader will also be able insha-Allah to recognize forged hadeeth and discard it.
Reply

azc
01-24-2017, 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
I could not understand your question. I am trying to explain a point. If it is not the answer, then please make your question clear. Someone may wonder how to know about the sanad /truth of a hadeeth, whether it is truly from Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam! If a Muslim trusts Allah (and what type of Muslim will not trust Allah?), then he/she must start understanding the Holy Quraan by reading it with the translation and tafseer (explanation) little by little every day. He/she shall realize the miraculous nature of the Holy Quraan. In addition to the spiritual pleasure and peace of mind, he/she shall also get a very deep understanding and hikmah (wisdom) by the Mercy of Allah Azza wa Jall. So after that the Muslim shall be able to see a hadeeth in the light of the Holy Quraan and shall easily understand if the Hadeeth is true!!! To such a Muslim the matan (contents) of a hadeeth is important and not the chain of narrators. This is my experience and I heard the same from many scholars. We must trust Allah that Allah has put such wisdom in HIS miraculous Book that a sincere person shall get fully guided and shall not feel any difficulty in the understanding of the true ahaadeeth. Such a reader will also be able insha-Allah to recognize forged hadeeth and discard it.
no, my question is different. Plz see my post again
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-24-2017, 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by azc
no, my question is different. Plz see my post again

Make your question clear. Write it in clear words.
Reply

azc
01-24-2017, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Make your question clear. Write it in clear words.
O.k. I take this Q from other angle: you pray salah and you know that we need to take care of fara'idh, wajibat, sunnah and mustabbat of salah. Do you know these terms and their explanation..?
Reply

fyi
01-24-2017, 11:59 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Assalaamo alaikum'


You think that there is no difference between the four and we have no restrictions to follow anyone. If you observe the new Muslims in the west, you will see that they say; there are 4 schools of thoughts. Then a sincere new Muslim, instead of opening the Holy Quraan directly, will go into a big diversion and will search for the books written by people to find which of the class is the best to follow!!! So the Quraan which is the Book of Allah Almighty is left and forgotten about, also the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam is left behind. What is chosen to study and understand will be the long books of fiqh written by common people.


Also you will see that many Muslims say that when you select one Madhhab then you remain sticking to it, you cannot change it to the other one!!! This is what makes me very upset. They made the scholar they follow as prophet and they believe that in the Hereafter they will be questioned about it!!!


I sincerely inform all readers that it is only Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam Who has that status, we will be asked about Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam and about the Quraan. These two are the first and the last/final to be followed. Any Muslim, a scholar or a non-scolar, who says things in accordance with these two, I accept their words and respect them.


The four scholars of the 4 madhahib didn't make madhahib. They only taught people the Quraan and Sunnah. Even about Imaam Hanbal I read a true story which proves that he didn't tell people his name so that they might not know him as a popular imam. But all these developments are the later happenings at the hands of others who want:


1. to complicate the understanding of Islam as a way of life'

2. to keep the Muslims away from Quraan and the Sunnah.

Just look at the result. Most of the Muslims became unaware of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah and thus the Whole Ummah became so weak that the enemies find it very easy to wipe it out. Only this status of our Ummah is now the best proof to a sincere Muslim to understand that we are not on the right path.


The Final Words of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam for us are: I leave among you TWO THINGS, the Book of Allah and my Sunnah, whoever holds fast to these two will never go astray.


The words of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam shall remain true till the last Day. Then why are now so many Muslims going out of the fold of Islam???


The Answer is: The Muslims are not trying to understand the Quraan and Sunnah. There are many who divert them from the 2 sources towards many fiqh books. So they are ignorant and confused and those who divert them are
responsible in the COURT OF ALLH
That's false.
Firstly when someone becomes muslim they don't even know what fiqh is.
Secondly, we have no prophet today. We can't ask anyone but someone who knows. That's where these 4 maddhab play their role. It is important that muslims who are new to the deen understand what Islam is truly. When I read the Quran without a teacher than it feels you can perceive it in any way possible. This is where it ends up being dangerous.

The 4 books are nothing more than hadith that are explained. You are being arrogant without realising the mistake you are making.

Every single problem we have today are caused by people who think they are a shayk after reading the Quran once. That's not how it works. All the Quranists we have today, all the terrorists we have today are ALL caused your ideology.

There's really no point in discussing this matter with someone who doesn't want to look further then the 4 books. It's not the books that are important I myself haven't read the Hanafi book nor did any, NOT ANY of my acquaintances read the book completely. I only search and find whatever answer I need and try to not fall for my own personal desires when reading something.
Reply

fyi
01-25-2017, 12:08 AM
btw I just read the admins post and I suggest you read it aswell.
It's a far more detailed explaination why the fiqh is so important and it shouldn't be ignored. However Fiqh is not important for me, you or anyone who enters the deen today. Fiqh is for those who want to commit to understanding the deen not for those who want to live the deen. There's a big difference between them.
Reply

Scimitar
01-25-2017, 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by fyi
There's really no point in discussing this matter with someone who doesn't want to look further then the 4 books. It's not the books that are important I myself haven't read the Hanafi book nor did any, NOT ANY of my acquaintances read the book completely. I only search and find whatever answer I need and try to not fall for my own personal desires when reading something.
Your own personal desires, you say, meaning, questions which do not pertain to your practice of Islam, per se?

Have you ever referred to the madhab explanations in matters of practicing your deen? And if so, when?

Scimi
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-25-2017, 06:22 AM
Originally Posted by fyi
Implying they are 'sects'...

Look at the current problems of the middle-east, they are all caused by people who thought they knew better. They started to use the Quran in their own interest.

.

This is the worst attack on the Holy Quraan which is a Book of Allah the All-Mighty. Although you may be doing it unknowingly and not intentionally, but you are frightening people from the understanding of the Holy Quraan which is a very big sin.

Every reader must note it that the Arab world is suffering, rather it is getting killed in abundance due to the fact that they are the first to discard the Holy Quraan. I don't say about a few ones who may be in contact with the Holy Quraan and thus may be very good. But most of them are the lovers of the Western culture and have thrown the Quraan and Sunnah at their backs.


See this is the justice of Allah Azza wa Jall that they are caught first. They understand the Holy Quraan very well because it is in their language. They must be the first to follow it and convey its massage to the whole world but they left it and many of them did very wrong things like:
They changed their language from Arabic to amiyyah which is a strange invented language. So now they are called Arabs but most of them do not understand the Holy Quraan because the language of the Holy Quraan is Fus-ha Arabic.

Although they cannot change the text of the Holy Quraan because Allah Azza wa Jall preserved it, but they attacked it in whatever way they could! So they;

1. removed the names of the ajza (30 parts). Now it is only part 1,2.... without names.

2. They removed the two du'aa from the end of the Holy Quraan. One du'aa is short to be read after daily recitation and the other one is long to be read after finishing the whole Quraan.

3. They removed the words Makki and Madani from each surah so that now the reader doesn't know when and where was this surah revealed.

4. they changed the stop signs. by changing waqfi-laazim to a minor sigh, the meaning of the verse are attacked. I can prove it with examples.

5. As in the Ajam countries the Quraan had the original form so Syria managed to send the newly printed Qurans to Pakistan. There these were given to the imams to distribute them among the people.

See, Quraan is the Book of Allah All-Mighty. Allah is closely watching every thing. Allah again and again said in the Holy Quraan;

Inn-Allaha bima ta'maloona baser. (Surely, Allah is watching what you do).

So now we see that a terrible fitnah came upon Syria, such fitnah which has no end!!! The Syrians are killed in many horrible ways like starvation, bombing and crushing to death, burning in fire bombs and poisoning with chlorine bombs and more....

إن في ذالك لآية

( Surely in this is a sign)

So fear o Muslims, don't play with the Book of Allah and/or the Sunnah of Allah's Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. Allah gives time and then catches and the catching of Allah is aleemun-shadeed (very painful and very severe).


Madhhab means a way. Islam is a Deen and Madhhab. I have chosen it and I follow Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, I can learn it from any scholar of the Holy Quraan and the Sunnah but I don't give it a different name. So Islam is my Deen and Madh-hab.
Reply

azc
01-25-2017, 10:14 AM
https://archive.org/stream/IslamicFi...20age_djvu.txt
Reply

Scimitar
01-25-2017, 12:56 PM
Random thought,

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Islam began as a something strange and it will return to being strange, so blessed are the strangers.”

So, when Mahdi is here, will he do away with the madhabs? Because he will be the "rightly guided khaliph" ???

Scimi
Reply

Umm♥Layth
01-25-2017, 02:04 PM
There's people from all walks of life with different levels of imaan, levels of understanding,levels of ambition, different personality types and different priorities. Islam is a religion for all people, so naturally there has to be options.

The way I see it, madhabs are a bit like training wheels. You use them as you learn to think on your own and eventually you won't have to rely on them to follow your deen properly.

Some people prefer to have a set of rules and regulations to ensure they stay on the straight path and there's nothing wrong with that. All madhabs lead to the same place anyway. They were created to facilitate the path for people and if they are causing confusion it is user error lol.

No, the prophet (saw) didn't have a madhab, but he wasn't weak in his imaan. People today lack common sense and focus, I mean we have cucumber fatwas and skinny jean hijabs. That's our state right now and having the 4 madhabs is a big blessing in times like these where people have difficulty thinking on their own.

I've been a Muslim for over a decade Alhamdullilah, and at first I used the Hanafi madhab. Eventually I started to follow Shafi'i as I felt it better suited my thinking and now I rarely have to refer to it. When I have a doubt, I usually compare all 4 madhabs and try to understand the why's and how's of their rules. If you compare them all, you will notice that each Imaam was dealing with different people in different times and locations. Rules were made according to that so it won't necessarily apply to you today, it will depend on your state, your surroundings and level of understanding.

Ultimately, Islam is very simple to follow, but due to our nature, we can easily warp things and corrupt our religion. Just have a look at the "sex with a condom is halal" thread on this very forum, lol. ^o)
Reply

azc
01-25-2017, 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Random thought, Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Islam began as a something strange and it will return to being strange, so blessed are the strangers.” So, when Mahdi is here, will he do away with the madhabs? Because he will be the "rightly guided khaliph" ??? Scimi
agree and nor the books of ahadith. Hz sahaba ikram ra didn't read these books as they were not written then
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-25-2017, 10:10 PM
1. Sunnah is a very comprehensive term which here means the method / way of the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him). It means the way or method which the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) used to apply the Holy Quraan practically. His whole life that passed according to Islam is His Sunnah and that is a model for us to follow.

2. Hadeeth is the sayings ,actions and approvals of the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him). Like the Holy Quraan, ahadeeth also came to Him from Allah. In some the meanings were from Allah and the words were that of the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) but in hadeeth Al-Qudsee both words and meanings are from Allah.


Let me pose some simple questions to explain why it is a fallacy to call lay people to abandon Fiqh and follow just Qur'an and Hadith:

Allah says in the Qur'an:
أُحِلَّ لَكُمْ صَيْدُ الْبَحْرِ وَطَعَامُهُ مَتَاعًا لَّكُمْ وَلِلسَّيَّارَةِ ۖ وَحُرِّمَ عَلَيْكُمْ صَيْدُ الْبَرِّ مَا دُمْتُمْ حُرُمًا ۗ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ الَّذِي إِلَيْهِ تُحْشَرُونَ

Lawful to you is game from the sea and its food as provision for you and the travelers, but forbidden to you is game from the land as long as you are in the state of ihram. And fear Allah to whom you will be gathered. [5:96]

It is normally understood from this Ayah that seafood is Halal for us. But we find several types of creatures in the sea, such as sea snakes,
tube worms, Squids, Jellyfish, octopus, seahorse, sea pig, frogs, crocodile etc. Are these all supposed to be halal? If not, then what is the criteria for finding out what is Halal from sea creatures and what is not?


3. Another translation of the verse 5:96 is:


5;96. Lawful to you is game from the sea and its food as provision for you and the travelers, but forbidden to you is game from the land as long as you are in the state of ihram. And fear Allah to whom you will be gathered.




In this verse Allah Azza wa Jall made the sea food lawful for us all but prohibited hunting from land in the state of ihram.


About the sea food the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) said in a hadeeth that the ocean water is tahoorah (clean and cleaning, so you can make wudoo with it). And its dead is halaal.


Also we must see the verse 14 of the surah Al-Nahl (AN-Nahl), its translation is:


(16:14) And He it is Who has subjected the sea that you may eat fresh fish from it and bring forth ornaments from it that you can wear. And you see ships ploughing their course through it so that you may go forth seeking His Bounty11 and be grateful to Him.


Surah Al-Nahl (An-Nahl) 14


Here in this verse Allah has used the words lahmah tariyyah which is translated here into fresh fish but another translation of the same is tender meat.


Now we will see all of these texts of the above two verses and one hadeeth. The clear meaning is that Allah has made halaal for us the sea food /fish etc. As you know oceans have abundant fish and it is not in deep water so it is very easily available. Also our minds /hearts want to eat fish not snakes or worms or sea pigs. Those things are not abundant, are just very rare. For a sea pig one has to go very deep and even then may not find it. So the questions are useless and only cause complication. The verses and hadeeth are very clear, telling us that while we are not in ihram, we can eat the fresh sea fish/fresh meat from the sea both at rest and during journey.


Everything is halaal from sea in need. But when the fresh meat of so many fish is available then why should a faqeeh need worms or snakes etc from a sea. In case he or you want them then hunt them, no restrictions.


At another place, Allah says:
ۚ وَإِذَا حَلَلْتُمْ فَاصْطَادُوا ۚ
... when you come out of ihram, then hunt. [5:2]

Can anyone say how important it is for a person to go hunting after coming out of ihram? Is it Fardh? because Allah is commanding it. Or is it Wajib or Sunnah or Nafl?


Respected readers, please read the full translation of this verse 5;2:



(5:2) Believers! Neither desecrate the symbols of (devotion to) Allah,
5 nor the holy month, nor the animals of offering, nor the animals wearing collars indicating they are for sacrifice, nor ill-treat those who have set out for the Holy House seeking from their Lord His bounty and good pleasure.6 But once you are free from Pilgrimage obligations, you are free to hunt.7 Do not let your wrath against the people who have barred you from the Holy Mosque move you to commit undue transgressions;8 rather, help one another in acts of righteousness and piety, and do not help one another in sin and transgression. Fear Allah. Surely Allah is severe in retribution.


Exp.note 7




7. Ihram is also one of the symbols of God and violation of any of the prohibitions which should be observed in that state is an act of sacrilege. The prohibition of hunting while in the state of ihram is mentioned in connection with the desecration of the symbols of God. When ihram is over, the prohibitions become void, and one is permitted to hunt.
************************************************** *********************************


Another simpler translation of the same verse is:


(5;2) O you who have believed, do not violate the rites of Allah or [the sanctity of] the sacred month or [neglect the marking of] the sacrificial animals and garlanding [them] or [violate the safety of] those coming to the Sacred House seeking bounty from their Lord and [His] approval. But when you come out of ihram, then [you may] hunt. And do not let the hatred of a people for having obstructed you from al-Masjid al-Haram lead you to transgress. And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.


You can clearly see that here Allah allowed the Muslims to hunt when they are not in ihram. So the prohibition from hunting was in ihram and freedom is given for hunting out of ihram. Is there any complication in understanding this verse??
But the sorrowful thing is that a small part of an aayat is separated from the rest of the verse and a wrong meaning is given to it just to make confusion in understanding the verse!!!



Now for a few examples from Hadith
:
عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ كَانَ إِذَا افْتَتَحَ الصَّلاَةَ قَالَ ‏ "‏ سُبْحَانَكَ اللَّهُمَّ وَبِحَمْدِكَ تَبَارَكَ اسْمُكَ وَتَعَالَى جَدُّكَ وَلاَ إِلَهَ غَيْرُكَ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
It was narrated from ‘Aishah [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Spectre/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.png[/IMG]that when the Prophet [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Spectre/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image003.png[/IMG]started Salat he would say:
Subhanak Allahumma wa bi hamdika, wa tabarakas- muka wa ta’ala jadduka, wa la ilaha ghayruk (Glory and praise is to You, O Allah, blessed is Your Name and exalted is Your majesty, none has the right to be worshipped but You).” [
Ibn Majah]

What is the ruling for reciting the above at the start of prayer, is it Fardh, Wajib, Sunnah or Nafl?
If someone forgets to recite this, then does he have to repeat his whole prayer? Or does he have to perform Sajdah Sahw? Or he doesn't have to do anything and his prayer will be valid?

Since I started making prayer (since childhood), I have been reading “Subhanak Allahumma wa bi hamdika, wa tabarakas- muka wa ta’ala jadduka, wa la ilaha ghayruk”


and I never forget it. This is because my parents taught me like this. If the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) opened salaat with this praising of Allah then why shouldn’t we??? From where do the fuqaha bring the explanation. Do they have special connection with Allah?? No! Not at all!


They also will depend upon explanation from the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him).


The Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) has clearly explained that Al-Faatihah is compulsory in qiyaam on every person. Without Al-Faatiha the raka’t is not valid. Moreover He (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) fully explained everything and started and continued salaat in congregation. Then since His time until now adhaan, iqaamah, wudoo and salaat are the hadeeth mutawaatar (continuous hadeeth). Numerous Muslims make wudoo and then salaat in the whole world since the time of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. Every new Muslim can go to a near by Masjid and learn how to make wudoo and salaat. He/she doesn’t have to open the books of Hadeeth for learning wudoo.


I have clearly read that the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) used to emphasize tathleeth (to wash every part three times) and to start from the right side i.e. first wash right arm and then left, first right foot and then left. The same principle He gave for taking bath.


Why did some people use the word pitfall for hadeeth Nabawee salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam? This is a blasphemy. Did Allah gave HIS Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) so many pitfalls for His Ummah and are now the fuqaha correcting those pitfalls for us???


This is a horrible attack at the honor of Allah Azza wa Jall as well as on the honor of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam!!! It seems like this Ummah has no sense of esteem now. This must be the reason that cruel unbelievers are left on this Ummah in many parts of the world. I wonder if today a companion of Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam was here and had read the words pitfall for a Hadeeth of the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) then what would be his reaction to the speakers of this word???

و أفوض امرى الى الله إن الله بصير بالعباد


Reply

AabiruSabeel
01-26-2017, 05:03 AM
Originally Posted by nbegam
Now we will see all of these texts of the above two verses and one hadeeth. The clear meaning is that Allah has made halaal for us the sea food /fish etc. As you know oceans have abundant fish and it is not in deep water so it is very easily available. Also our minds /hearts want to eat fish not snakes or worms or sea pigs. Those things are not abundant, are just very rare. For a sea pig one has to go very deep and even then may not find it. So the questions are useless and only cause complication. The verses and hadeeth are very clear, telling us that while we are not in ihram, we can eat the fresh sea fish/fresh meat from the sea both at rest and during journey.


Everything is halaal from sea in need. But when the fresh meat of so many fish is available then why should a faqeeh need worms or snakes etc from a sea. In case he or you want them then hunt them, no restrictions.
Ideally, that would be case and people would only eat fish. But practically, that is not the case. There are several places on earth where people eat crabs, prawn and many other sea creatures. The Fuqaha study all the relevant Ayaat and Ahadeeth and derive the rulings from them. They explain the Deen to us, they do not create their own rulings as commonly misunderstood by many people.


Originally Posted by nbegam
Respected readers, please read the full translation of this verse 5;2:

(5:2) Believers! Neither desecrate the symbols of (devotion to) Allah,5 nor the holy month, nor the animals of offering, nor the animals wearing collars indicating they are for sacrifice, nor ill-treat those who have set out for the Holy House seeking from their Lord His bounty and good pleasure.6 But once you are free from Pilgrimage obligations, you are free to hunt.7 Do not let your wrath against the people who have barred you from the Holy Mosque move you to commit undue transgressions;8 rather, help one another in acts of righteousness and piety, and do not help one another in sin and transgression. Fear Allah. Surely Allah is severe in retribution.

Exp.note 7

7. Ihram is also one of the symbols of God and violation of any of the prohibitions which should be observed in that state is an act of sacrilege. The prohibition of hunting while in the state of ihram is mentioned in connection with the desecration of the symbols of God. When ihram is over, the prohibitions become void, and one is permitted to hunt.
See, the problem here is you are relying on a translator's note to understand the context.

I don't say your explanation is wrong. What we say is, the translator or a Tafsir scholar has the knowledge of the Qur'an and he can explain the context and details. But the level of Faqeeh is much higher than that, because a Faqeeh studies all other branches of Deen.

Being a mufassir is not sufficient for a person to be able to derive Shar'i rulings from Qur'an. He has to understand the Ahadeeth, the Seerah, actions of the Sahabah and how they understood the concept and several other aspects of Deen.

Originally Posted by nbegam
Another simpler translation of the same verse is:

(5;2) O you who have believed, do not violate the rites of Allah or [the sanctity of] the sacred month or [neglect the marking of] the sacrificial animals and garlanding [them] or [violate the safety of] those coming to the Sacred House seeking bounty from their Lord and [His] approval. But when you come out of ihram, then [you may] hunt. And do not let the hatred of a people for having obstructed you from al-Masjid al-Haram lead you to transgress. And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.

You can clearly see that here Allah allowed the Muslims to hunt when they are not in ihram. So the prohibition from hunting was in ihram and freedom is given for hunting out of ihram. Is there any complication in understanding this verse??

But the sorrowful thing is that a small part of an aayat is separated from the rest of the verse and a wrong meaning is given to it just to make confusion in understanding the verse!!!
We do not rely on translations of the verses to find out the rulings. Translations are also done by human beings. They are not authoritative and they sometimes interpolate and make mistakes. The [you may] part above is not there in Arabic, that is interpolation by the translator to help you understand the context.

I don't say he is wrong. Once again, instead of relying on translators (and there are more than a dozen out there, who would you follow?), we rely on the complete explanation given in simplified form by the Fuqaha.

I don't know whether you are getting the point. There are levels of Islamic scholarship. A translator can even be a non-Muslim. Many non-Muslims have translated the Qur'an. A mufassir understands and explains the Qur'an. A muhaddith is a Hadith scholar. A mu'arrikh is a scholar of history. They are all limited to their own field of knowledge. But a Faqeeh studies all branches of Deen. That is the reason why he is followed.

Originally Posted by nbegam
Since I started making prayer (since childhood), I have been reading “Subhanak Allahumma wa bi hamdika, wa tabarakas- muka wa ta’ala jadduka, wa la ilaha ghayruk”

and I never forget it. This is because my parents taught me like this. If the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) opened salaat with this praising of Allah then why shouldn’t we??? From where do the fuqaha bring the explanation. Do they have special connection with Allah?? No! Not at all!
Alhamdulillah, those who are mindful of their prayers, they will not forget anything. But whole world is not ideal. There are Muslims who are new to Islam, and there are Muslims who follow only the basics. There are Muslims who are lazy.

Everything is not as simple as you might assume. The rulings have to be found for each and every aspect of Deen. Reciting the thana at the start of the prayer is a Sunnah. But if someone forgets it or leaves it, what does he have to do? It is not found anywhere in the Hadith. This is where the Fuqaha explain the ruling based on the Qur'an and Sunnah. Of course, they do not simply bring it out of thin air. They explain everything in the light of Qur'an and Sunnah.

Originally Posted by nbegam
I have clearly read that the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) used to emphasize tathleeth (to wash every part three times) and to start from the right side i.e. first wash right arm and then left, first right foot and then left. The same principle He gave for taking bath.
Yes, that is right, but all the above quoted Ahadeeth are Sahih and what the Sahabah are narrating is the truth. Nobody can deny that.

What makes you say that washing 3 times is Sunnah? Because you are already well-versed in the ruling. But when a person simply reads the Ahadith, he will not be able to understand the underlying principles in categorizing Fardh, Sunnah and Mustahab. He has to learn from scholars who will teach him in the light of Qur'an and Sunnah.


Everything goes back to Qur'an and Sunnah, nobody denies that. All the 4 madhahib are based on Qur'an and Sunnah. People misunderstand what a madhhab is. It is a set of principles, guidelines, a methodology, that is used by scholars to find out the Shar'i rulings from the Qur'an and Sunnah.
Reply

azc
01-26-2017, 05:34 AM
@nbegam : You've not replied post # 123 yet
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-26-2017, 06:27 AM
Originally Posted by azc
@nbegam : You've not replied post # 123 yet

I have to reply one more post. After that insha-Allah i will answer your question.
Reply

azc
01-26-2017, 07:32 AM
Originally Posted by nbegam
I have to reply one more post. After that insha-Allah i will answer your question.
take your time. When you've convinced other posters, then reply my post
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-26-2017, 07:55 AM
Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel
Ideally, that would be case and people would only eat fish. But practically, that is not the case. There are several places on earth where people eat crabs, prawn and many other sea creatures. The Fuqaha study all the relevant Ayaat and Ahadeeth and derive the rulings from them. They explain the Deen to us, they do not create their own rulings as commonly misunderstood by many people.




See, the problem here is you are relying on a translator's note to understand the context. It is not mentioned in the above Ayah that it was prohibited to hunt while in the state of Ihram. Can you find it anywhere there? It is not even mentioned in the previous Ayah.

If you say it is implied in the meaning, then that would mean the whole Ayah was intended for those who are in Ihram. If that is so, then desecrating the holy months and animals of sacrifice would be allowed for those who are not in ihram.

I don't say your explanation wrong. What we say is, the translator or a Tafsir scholar has the knowledge of the Qur'an and he can explain the context and details. But the level of Faqeeh is much higher than that, because a Faqeeh studies all other branches of Deen.

Being a mufassir is not sufficient for a person to be able to derive Shar'i rulings from Qur'an. He has to understand the Ahadeeth, the Seerah, actions of the Sahabah and how they understood the concept and several other aspects of Deen.



We do not rely on translations of the verses to find out the rulings. Translations are also done by human beings. They are not authoritative and they sometimes interpolate and make mistakes. The [you may] part above is not there in Arabic, that is interpolation by the translator to help you understand the context.

I don't say he is wrong. Once again, instead of relying on translators (and there are more than a dozen out there, who would you follow?), we rely on the complete explanation given in simplified form by the Fuqaha.

I don't know whether you are getting the point. There are levels of Islamic scholarship. A translator can even be a non-Muslim. Many non-Muslims have translated the Qur'an. A mufassir understands and explains the Qur'an. A muhaddith is a Hadith scholar. A mu'arrikh is a scholar of history. They are all limited to their own field of knowledge. But a Faqeeh studies all branches of Deen. That is the reason why he is followed.



Alhamdulillah, those who are mindful of their prayers, they will not forget anything. But whole world is not ideal. There are Muslims who are new to Islam, and there are Muslims who follow only the basics. There are Muslims who are lazy.

Everything is not as simple as you might assume. The rulings have to be found for each and every aspect of Deen. Reciting the thana at the start of the prayer is a Sunnah. But if someone forgets it or leaves it, what does he have to do? It is not found anywhere in the Hadith. This is where the Fuqaha explain the ruling based on the Qur'an and Sunnah. Of course, they do not simply bring it out of thin air. They explain everything in the light of Qur'an and Sunnah.



Yes, that is right, but all the above quoted Ahadeeth are Sahih and what the Sahabah are narrating is the truth. Nobody can deny that.

What makes you say that washing 3 times is Sunnah? Because you are already well-versed in the ruling. But when a person simply reads the Ahadith, he will not be able to understand the underlying principles in categorizing Fardh, Sunnah and Mustahab. He has to learn from scholars who will teach him in the light of Qur'an and Sunnah.


Everything goes back to Qur'an and Sunnah, nobody denies that. All the 4 madhahib are based on Qur'an and Sunnah. People misunderstand what a madhhab is. It is a set of principles, guidelines, a methodology, that is used by scholars to find out the Shar'i rulings from the Qur'an and Sunnah.

I am very short of time. Moreover, I am very tired of this boring topic but I have to write for the sake of readers so that they don't get repelled away from the Great Book of Allah which along with the Sunnah is perfect from all points of view.


You said that I am relying upon the translators while there is no command of the prohibition of hunting in ihram. See your words below:


[ QUOTE]See, the problem here is you are relying on a translator's note to understand the context. It is not mentioned in the above Ayah that it was prohibited to hunt while in the state of Ihram. Can you find it anywhere there? It is not even mentioned in the previous Ayah.[/QUOTE]


Now read the translation of the verse 96 of the surah Al-Maa'idah (5:96), you have given this ayah in your post:


(5;96) Lawful to you is game from the sea and its food as provision for you and the travelers, but forbidden to you is game from the land as long as you are in the state of ihram. And fear Allah to whom you will be gathered.

But you got entangled in the complication of haram and halaal from the sea. This complication is made by someone whatever you call him. Anyhow you forgot to see this command of the prohibition of hunting on land in the state of ihram. So you missed such an important and obligatory part of the aayah. this must be because you are not trying to understand the Holy Quraan thoroughly. If you did, you will understand many things only from the aayaat. Tafseer is not required in all places. Then you must also note that in the end of this aayat (verse) Allah All-Mighty is ordering us to fear HIM and is reminding us the Day of Hashar when we shall be standing in HIS COURT for ACCOUNTING. May Allah make it easy for us, aameen ya Allah Azza wa Jall.


Now the attempts made by you and your friends are to divert people from the Holy Quraan and Sunnah. Read the translation of the following verse in surah Al-A'raaf 44, 45:


(7:44) And the companions of Paradise will call out to the companions of the Fire, "We have already found what our Lord promised us to be true. Have you found what your Lord promised to be true?" They will say, "Yes." Then an announcer will announce among them, "The curse of Allah shall be upon the wrongdoers."


(7:45) Who averted [people] from the way of Allah and sought to make it [seem] deviant while they were, concerning the Hereafter, disbelievers.

You see, Allah Azza wa jall didn't say that they are kaafirs rather Allah Ta'ala used the words zaalimeen (the wicked, the wrong doers). They divert people from the way of Allah (the Quraan and Sunnah) because they don't believe in the Hereafter.

Today all Muslims say that they do believe in the Hereafter but when it comes to their worldly benefits and their self honor then they throw that belief at their backs. And their tongues /pens etc. start speaking without any consideration about the Accounting and Punishment in the Hereafter. So it is like they don't believe. Satan is our open and deadly enemy. Keeping in close daily contact with the Quraan and Sunnah will result in the Mercy of Allah and so the Muslim will get understanding, hikmah (wisdom) and also protection from the tactics of Satan the cursed one. A good Tafseer of the Holy Quraan from a sincere scholar is an easy way to understand the Quraan and Sunnah at the same time.
Reply

AabiruSabeel
01-26-2017, 08:53 AM
Originally Posted by nbegam
I am very short of time. Moreover, I am very tired of this boring topic but I have to write for the sake of readers so that they don't get repelled away from the Great Book of Allah which along with the Sunnah is perfect from all points of view.


You said that I am relying upon the translators while there is no command of the prohibition of hunting in ihram. See your words below:


See, the problem here is you are relying on a translator's note to understand the context. It is not mentioned in the above Ayah that it was prohibited to hunt while in the state of Ihram. Can you find it anywhere there? It is not even mentioned in the previous Ayah.

Now read the translation of the verse 96 of the surah Al-Maa'idah (5:96), you have given this ayah in your post:


(5;96) Lawful to you is game from the sea and its food as provision for you and the travelers, but forbidden to you is game from the land as long as you are in the state of ihram. And fear Allah to whom you will be gathered.
I think you are missing the point here.

The point I am trying to make is not for you or for those who already know the rulings. It is about those laymen who don't have deeper understanding of the Deen. Can they simply read the translation and find out the proper Shar'i ruling? No, they cannot. They have to refer to the scholars. And all scholars follow proper methods to find out the ruling, from the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Nobody is asking anyone to abandon the Qur'an or Sunnah. We are just asking them to understand the Qur'an and Sunnah from the people of knowledge, and not try to derive the Ahkaam by themselves.

But you got entangled in the complication of haram and halaal from the sea. This complication is made by someone whatever you call him.
We are not complicating anything. It is clearly mentioned in the Qur'an that hunting from sea and its food is allowed for consumption. But the question naturally arises, is everything allowed, including crocodiles, snakes, crabs and octopus?

Also, Allah :swt: mentions only the Sea, what about rivers, lakes and other water bodies? Will hunting be permissible from all of them?

All these questions require proper understanding of the relevant Ayaat and Ahadeeth. The 'Ulama who study all aspects of the Deen and reach the level of ijtihad are known as Faqeeh.

Allah :swt: asks us to consult the people of knowledge.

Anyhow you forgot to see this command of the prohibition of hunting on land in the state of ihram. So you missed such an important and obligatory part of the aayah.
No, I didn't miss it. As I mentioned above, the command of prohibition comes nearly at the end of the Surah.

Then you must also note that in the end of this aayat (verse) Allah All-Mighty is ordering us to fear HIM and is reminding us the Day of Hashar when we shall be standing in HIS COURT for ACCOUNTING. May Allah make it easy for us, aameen ya Allah Azza wa Jall.
Aameen.

Now the attempts made by you and your friends are to divert people from the Holy Quraan and Sunnah.
No, that is very wrong. We have never done that.

Alhamdulillah, we recite the Qur'an every day and make our kids memorize the Qur'an. Several of our brothers are Alhamdulillah Huffaaz of the Holy Qur'an. We study the Tafsir and we also study the ahkaam, but not on our own by simply reading books. We study under the guidance of 'ulama. They explain to us everything in detail, making us understand why and how a ruling is made.

We always call people to hold fast to the Sunnah. We encourage people to keep their beards and wear Islamic style of clothing. From the hair of our head until the toe nail, everything must be according to the Sunnah. From waking up in the morning until we go to bed at night, the whole day should be according to the Sunnah. This is what we always encourage everyone.

You see, Allah Azza wa jall didn't say that they are kaafirs rather Allah Ta'ala used the words zaalimeen (the wicked, the wrong doers). They divert people from the way of Allah (the Quraan and Sunnah) because they don't believe in the Hereafter.

Today all Muslims say that they do believe in the Hereafter but when it comes to their worldly benefits and their self honor then they throw that belief at their backs. And their tongues /pens etc. start speaking without any consideration about the Accounting and Punishment in the Hereafter. So it is like they don't believe. Satan is our open and deadly enemy. Keeping in close daily contact with the Quraan and Sunnah will result in the Mercy of Allah and so the Muslim will get understanding, hikmah (wisdom) and also protection from the tactics of Satan the cursed one. A good Tafseer of the Holy Quraan from a sincere scholar is an easy way to understand the Quraan and Sunnah at the same time.
أعوذ بالله من الشيطان الرجيم
We are free from all these accusations.
Reply

azc
01-26-2017, 08:54 AM
@nbegam :
Now the attempts made by you and your friends are to divert people from the Holy Quraan and Sunnah.
try to speak like a person who's sound mind
Reply

AabiruSabeel
01-26-2017, 09:39 AM
Originally Posted by nbegam

Although they cannot change the text of the Holy Quraan because Allah Azza wa Jall preserved it, but they attacked it in whatever way they could! So they;

1. removed the names of the ajza (30 parts). Now it is only part 1,2.... without names.

2. They removed the two du'aa from the end of the Holy Quraan. One du'aa is short to be read after daily recitation and the other one is long to be read after finishing the whole Quraan.

3. They removed the words Makki and Madani from each surah so that now the reader doesn't know when and where was this surah revealed.

4. they changed the stop signs. by changing waqfi-laazim to a minor sigh, the meaning of the verse are attacked. I can prove it with examples.

5. As in the Ajam countries the Quraan had the original form so Syria managed to send the newly printed Qurans to Pakistan. There these were given to the imams to distribute them among the people.
These are some really strange views.

1. The division of the Qur'an into 30 ajza is not part of the Qur'an, neither it is from the Sunnah. The only division during the lifetime of the Prophet :saws: was that of the 114 Surah. The Prophet :saws: used to recite the whole Surah in Salah.

When the Sahabah wanted to recite the Qur'an outside of the Salah, they used to recite a number of Surah in sequence. On the first day, they used to recite the three Surah (Al-Baqarah, Aal-Imran and An-Nisa). Then the second day they used to recite the next 5 Surah. Then the next 7, then 9, then 11, then 13. On the seventh day, they used to complete the Qur'an by reciting the remaining Short Surah.

It comes in a Hadith:
Abu Dawood related that Aws bin Huthayfah, may Allah be pleased with him, said, “The Prophet :saws:, would come to the Thaqeef delegation when they came forth to him and he would address them. One night he was slow [delayed] in coming to them and they said, “Were you delayed coming to us this evening?”He said, “Two portions of the Qur’an flew [meaning he didn’t have a chance to read them] from me and I hated to come until I finished.”
Aws said, I asked the companions of the Prophet :saws:, “How do you divide the Qur’an?” They said, “Three, and five, and seven, and nine, and eleven, and thirteen, and a portion for the munfassal [shorter surahs] by itself.

Abee At-Tayyib Mohammed Shams Al-Haqq Al-‘Atheem Abaadee in his commentary on Sunan Abee Dawood, said the following explained that the numbers in this hadeeth were numbers of surahs, so the first division is surah Al-Baqarah, Aali ‘Imraan, and An-Nisaa’, the second division is from surah Al-Maa’idah to [the end of] Baraa’ah [At-Tawbah], the third division which is stated as “seven” is the seven surahs from Yunus to [the end of] An-Nahl, etc.[‘Oon Al-Ma’bood Sharh Sunan Abee Dawood by Abee At-Tayyib Mohammed Shams Al-Haww Al-‘Atheem Abaadee, Fourth volume page 271-272, hadeeth number 1380.]


The division of the Qur'an into 30 ajza was done later on during the time of Tabi'een.

It is reported in Jamaal Al-Quraa’ wa Kamaal Al-Iqraa’ that Al-Manssor said to ‘Amrin bin ‘Ubayd [died 144 Hijara], “I wish to memorize the Qur’an, so in what amount [of time] so you say I can memorize it?” He said, “If Allah, the Mighty and Honored, makes it easy for you, in one year.” He [Al-Manssor] then said, “ I indeed would like to partition that for myself into portions that I will not exceed nor diminish; I will memorize of it every day a portion and I will not leave it one day.” ‘Amrin then said, “Would you like for me to do that?” He said, “Yes”. So he [‘Amrin] divided the Qur’an according to that and wrote it on books and made every 12 portions of those divisions one juz’ and it became 30 juz’. He separated between the ajzaa’ with a line of gold at the end of each juz’.


Please the scan from the explanation given at the end of the Mushaf:

If you don't read Arabic, it says, the division of Ajza is taken from the book "Ghayth An-Naf' " by Allama As-Safaqusiyy :rh:.

The above scan also answers your point #3 saying that the Makki and Madani indication is not given at the start of every surah because it is was the ijma' of the Salaf that the Mushaf should be free from other than the Holy Qur'an.

The Makki and Madani information is not the actual part of Qur'an, it is an additional information related to the Holy Qur'an and that is why it is mentioned at the end of the Mushaf. The scan also says that the correct place of these extra information related to the Qur'an is actually the books of Tafsir and 'Uloomul Qur'an, not the mushaf itself.

2. The Du'a that are recited at the end are also not part of the Holy Qur'an. They are Du'as from the Sunnah and must not be confused as being part of the Qur'an itself.

3. Answered above.

4. The Waqf signs are also not part of the Qur'an. They are added to make it easier for everyone to recite properly. See the scan of next page, it explains how the waqf signs are placed in the first paragraph:
Reply

sister herb
01-26-2017, 10:01 AM
This has been long and partly quite difficult discussion to understand for a layman like I. But this is as a summary as I have understood it:

Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
All madhabs lead to the same place anyway. They were created to facilitate the path for people and if they are causing confusion it is user error lol.
If I follow one maddhab, it can´t be fundamentally different than other maddhab but it has to follow the basic principles of Islam. If someone else follows other maddhab, it has to lead to to same than some other maddhab and it has to follow Islam anyway. Both are right as we can´t say that some maddhab is wrong and some is right.



Well, as I wrote, I am layman. Don´t beat me after this post. :exhausted
Reply

azc
01-26-2017, 11:00 AM
Originally Posted by sister herb
This has been long and partly quite difficult discussion to understand for a layman like I. But this is as a summary as I have understood it: If I follow one maddhab, it can´t be fundamentally different than other maddhab but it has to follow the basic principles of Islam. If someone else follows other maddhab, it has to lead to to same than some other maddhab and it has to follow Islam anyway. Both are right as we can´t say that some maddhab is wrong and some is right. Well, as I wrote, I am layman. Don´t beat me after this post. :exhausted
yes, but some key board warriors defy the 4 madhab
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-26-2017, 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by azc
@nbegam : try to speak like a person who's sound mind
If you are sound minded and with safe eemaan then when you read the words "pitfall" for the ahaadeeth of the Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, you must show gheera for it!!! But it didn't affect you. In fact this group of yours seem to be working as organized group to push away muslims from the Quraan and Sunnah with the excuse of madhahib. The posts of many of you are an existing proof of that attempt of yours!!! Yours and your friends' posts put light on the eemaan in the very depth of your hearts!!!
Reply

azc
01-26-2017, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
If you are sound minded and with safe eemaan then when you read the words "pitfall" for the ahaadeeth of the Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, you must show gheera for it!!! But it didn't affect you. In fact this group of yours seem to be working as organized group to push away muslims from the Quraan and Sunnah with the excuse of madhahib. The posts of many of you are an existing proof of that attempt of yours!!! Yours and your friends' posts put light on the eemaan in the very depth of your hearts!!!
First read my post attentively, comprehend and then use keyboard to reply... Show me what I've written ''wrong'' about hadith..? Put your comments there.
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-26-2017, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by azc
O.k. I take this Q from other angle: you pray salah and you know that we need to take care of fara'idh, wajibat, sunnah and mustabbat of salah. Do you know these terms and their explanation..?

Fard and waajib


Although some people make difference between fard and waajib but they are the same because these are obligatory for all Muslims even during travelling. These must be prayed on proper time, if missed their qada is obligatory. During travelling, if 4 these become half i.e.2. If 2 or 3 then all must be prayed during travel.


Sunnah
are not like fard and waajib so these can be left during travel (2 sunnah in fajar is the exception). Also, if missed, their qada is not made (but the qada of the 2 fajar sunnah is made on the same day before zuhur). Their importance is also very great. There are Sunnati mokdah and sunnati ghair mokdah. 12 sunnah daily in five prayers (fajar=2, zuhur=6, maghrib=2 and ishaa =2) are sunnati mokdah. The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam always prayed them. He said that if a Muslim prays the 12 mokdah sunnah.on regular bases, he/she shall get a palace in Jannah. Also He said that the 2 sunnah before fajar are more valuable than dunya wa ma feeha (the 2 sunnah before fajar are more valuable than this world and whatever is in it). Only from this hadeeth we can know the importance of the sunnah in prayers. Also, we must remember that the fajar 2 sunnah must be prayed during travel.


The ghair mokdah sunnah are those which the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam often prayed but sometimes didn’t pray. These are 4 before Asar and 4 before ishaa.


In addition to the above, there are 2 more sunnah which are optional and are after the 2 sunnati mokdah of zuhur i.e. in the end of the zuhur prayer. We are informed in a hadeeth shareef that anyone who prays them, on him/her the Fire of Hell will be haraam!!!


Mustahab
=desired, recommended. Nafal, nawaafil are something extra which is not fard or waajib. These are optional but are suggested for more benefit. If we do not pray them, there is no sin. But if we pray we will get more reward. So the sincere suggestion is that we must earn some more reward because our fard prayers may not be up to the passing standard, then these extra nafal prayers will be added to the reward.

This information is enough for a practicing Muslim. Stories beyond that are not required.
Reply

azc
01-26-2017, 05:24 PM
@nbegam : My Q was regarding arkan and shara'it of salah though but you couldn't grasp it. Anyway, now I ask on what you've written. : prove from any Hadith which specifically clarifies these ''terms''. E.g. 4/2 rakah salah before/after zuhur salah is ''Sunnah''. Show me only one hadith which says ''praying 4/2 rakah is SUNNAH'' don't write scholars' opinion. This word ''Sunnah'' must be mentioned in hadith.
Reply

Scimitar
01-26-2017, 05:33 PM
Assalaam alaikum bro azc.

Originally Posted by Scimitar
Random thought,

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Islam began as a something strange and it will return to being strange, so blessed are the strangers.”

So, when Mahdi is here, will he do away with the madhabs? Because he will be the "rightly guided khaliph" ???

Scimi
Originally Posted by azc
agree and nor the books of ahadith. Hz sahaba ikram ra didn't read these books as they were not written then
Are we in agreement as "laymen"? or is this also a scholarly opinion?

(trick question bro)

- if you answer "as laymen", then you are also guilty of what you claim we who do not ascribe to a madhab do, which is form an educated opinion based off our own research.

- if you claim it is a scholarly opinion, then present the evidence in sha Allah. This also opens a can of worms.

Scimi
Reply

OmAbdullah
01-26-2017, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by azc
@nbegam : My Q was regarding arkan and shara'it of salah though but you couldn't grasp it. Anyway, now I ask on what you've written. : prove from any Hadith which specifically clarifies these ''terms''. E.g. 4/2 rakah salah before/after zuhur salah is ''Sunnah''. Show me only one hadith which says ''praying 4/2 rakah is SUNNAH'' don't write scholars' opinion. This word ''Sunnah'' must be mentioned in hadith.

4/2 raka' Sunnah:

Do you know any thing about hadeeth mutawaatar i.e. a hadeeth that reached us from Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam by continuous practicing. For such a hadeeth there are hundreds of thousands of witnesses, so none can deny it. Making 4 sunna first and 2 last in zuhur has reached us all through the hadeeth muta waater for which no proof is required.

Do you want to make people confused about the daily fard and Sunnah in obligatory prayers. You are very clever. So u are using words very carefully so that you can hide your attacks!!! Remember that Allah your Creator is much more Clever. So a creature cannot play with Allah. My useful clear answers didn't satisfy u. And u will not be satisfied with any clear answer because u are not straight. You will make the things complicated and cause chaos and confusion in Deen. That is your aim which is very well proved now. I leave it to Allah:

و أفوض امري إلى الله إن الله بصير بالعباد
Reply

Scimitar
01-26-2017, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by nbegam
4/2 raka' Sunnah:

Do you know any thing about hadeeth mutawaatar i.e. a hadeeth that reached us from Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam by continuous practicing. For such a hadeeth there are hundreds of thousands of witnesses, so none can deny it. Making 4 sunna first and 2 last in zuhur has reached us all through the hadeeth muta waater for which no proof is required.

Do you want to make people confused about the daily fard and Sunnah in obligatory prayers. You are very clever. So u are using words very carefully so that you can hide your attacks!!! Remember that Allah your Creator is much more Clever. So a creature cannot play with Allah. My useful clear answers didn't satisfy u. And u will not be satisfied with any clear answer because u are not straight. You will make the things complicated and cause chaos and confusion in Deen. That is your aim which is very well proved now. I leave it to Allah:

و أفوض امري إلى الله إن الله بصير بالعباد
Sister, the madhabs do not generally disagree with each other on the major points, just here and there on some minor issues, there are differences of opinion, stuff that usually doesn't concern a Muslims practice of his or her deen in daily life.

I personally have no problems with madhabs and those who follow one. I think they serve a purpose for those who do not "get it". Because, the madhabs, provide intellectual discourse regarding matters of deen, so someone who is unsure, can follow a train of thought which is logical and contextually sound.

That is all.

We have to remember, that when Islam started to spread to non Arabic speaking nations, the Arab Muslims were faced with issues they never saw coming... such as, well, history paints the rest in.

My not choosing a madhab is personal choice, as I have found that I do "get it", and if I am unsure of anything, I can ask my imam, or go to the books and read what the scholars have already clarified. Ofcourse, the scholars themselves follow madhabs too.

So the question really is - those of us who do not follow a madhab, when we do our research - do we realise that we are reading scholars who do follow a madhab? And if we take their opinion on matters, are we not also sponsoring the madhab they follow without realising it?

This is a very nuanced discussion.

My last post, I kinda curve balled bro Azc, subhanAllah, he's a good brother - but my line of enquiry is genuine. He knows now, that the question I asked him regarding the hadeeth narrated by Abu Hurairah RA, was designed to place him in a catch22 situation.

But in fairness, I also have to point out to you, that you also are in the same situation, just paddling a different boat. My question to you is - when you research matters pertaining to Islam and get scholarly opinions, do you not realise the opinions are from scholars who follow a madhab? And by knowing this, do you now understand that when you sponsor the opinion of a scholar, you are aslo lending his madhab some credence too, especially if the answer he gives is from his school of thought (madhab)??? See? we are both in that boat lol.

Scimi
Reply

Muhaba
01-26-2017, 06:43 PM
The point is that, madhahib were not there at the time of the Prophet (SAW). Everyone followed the Prophet SAW (Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet). And so madhahib are just not a basic part of Islam. There is no need to associate with any one madhhab or to have to follow every ruling in a madhhab and not be able to pick one ruling from one madhhab and another from a different madhhab (if you feel that that's the more correct ruling), because all rulings in a madhhab are based on some hadith of the Prophet (SAW), for example whether blood breaks a wudoo or not.

I don't even think it's right to ask 'which madhhab do belong to?' because there is just no difference among Muslims based on madhahib. It's not like asking whether you're sunni or shia. What difference does it make if you're Hanafi or Shafiee? You agree that you can pray behind each other and you won't consider an imam from a different madhhab to cause your prayer to be invalid? Or anything like that. So then what's the point of trying to find out what madhhab someone belongs to?

Already the Ummah has been disunited because of so many factors, race and nationality and sects. All we need is fighting with each other on the basis of madhhab to ruin what's left of it.
Reply

Scimitar
01-26-2017, 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by Muhaba
The point is that, madhahib were not there at the time of the Prophet (SAW). Everyone followed the Prophet SAW (Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet). And so madhahib are just not a basic part of Islam. There is no need to associate with any one madhhab or to have to follow every ruling in a madhhab and not be able to pick one ruling from one madhhab and another from a different madhhab (if you feel that that's the more correct ruling), because all rulings in a madhhab are based on some hadith of the Prophet (SAW), for example whether blood breaks a wudoo or not.

I don't even think it's right to ask 'which madhhab do belong to?' because there is just no difference among Muslims based on madhahib. It's not like asking whether you're sunni or shia. What difference does it make if you're Hanafi or Shafiee? You agree that you can pray behind each other and you won't consider an imam from a different madhhab to cause your prayer to be invalid? Or anything like that. So then what's the point of trying to find out what madhhab someone belongs to?

Already the Ummah has been disunited because of so many factors, race and nationality and sects. All we need is fighting with each other on the basis of madhhab to ruin what's left of it.
I never came across a case where there were sectarian wars emerging from madhabs... so you would be wrong.

I can make chicken curry four ways, each way is fine, and it's still chicken curry.

This is how inclusive the madhabs are, with each other - all four generally compliment each other. And the disagreements, were minor compared to the political circus the Muslims had to deal with in the case of "sectarian Islam" - i.e - Sunni Shia divide happened way before the madhabs were even an idea.

The two, cannot be compared.

Scimi

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Muhaba
I don't even think it's right to ask 'which madhhab do belong to?' because there is just no difference among Muslims based on madhahib.
Badabing, Badaboom :)

I also thought the premise of this thread was ridiculous!!!

Scimi
Reply

Muhaba
01-26-2017, 06:56 PM
By the way, I don't follow any madhhab and i find nothing wrong with praying in both the Shafiee way or the Hanafee way and since all madhahib are based on some hadith of the Prophet SAW or a derivation of some verse so they're all correct, as long as the rulings don't go against Quran / Hadith. Actually, there are some rulings that contradict some verse or hadith and I would consider those rulings wrong (and even consider a responsibility on the ummah to correct those items otherwise the scholars might continue to get sins even centuries after their death.)

The scholars always said that if they said something wrong, then their students shouldn't follow it. And so we should also keep that in mind. These scholars were human beings and they could have made mistakes and their decision on some topic was not final / unquestionable because these scholars weren't the basis of Islam. If we don't follow any one of them, we don't become kafirs. On the other hand, what the Prophet (SAW) said, we have to follow it without question.
Reply

Scimitar
01-26-2017, 06:56 PM
Madhab, for lack of a better explanatory term in English, is best described as "curriculum".

Imagine you are in school, and being taught algebra one way, and it doesn;t make sense to you, so you are taught another way, from another curriculum, which appeals to your logic, train of thought - and once you "get it", you can work out the algebra equation... the answer will still be the same, whether you followed curriculum A or curriculum B ( or even C and D).

Which way suits you best? You decide.

And if you choose not to decide - that's cool too.

It's not necessary to have a madhab, despite what one scholar from the middle ages claimed.

Scimi
Reply

Muhaba
01-26-2017, 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
I never came across a case where there were sectarian wars emerging from madhabs... so you would be wrong.

I can make chicken curry four ways, each way is fine, and it's still chicken curry.

This is how inclusive the madhabs are, with each other - all four generally compliment each other. And the disagreements, were minor compared to the political circus the Muslims had to deal with in the case of "sectarian Islam" - i.e - Sunni Shia divide happened way before the madhabs were even an idea.

The two, cannot be compared.

Scimi

EDIT:



Badabing, Badaboom :)

I also thought the premise of this thread was ridiculous!!!

Scimi
actually, in the beginning, the students of the different scholars used to dispute with each other.
Reply

Scimitar
01-26-2017, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by Muhaba
actually, in the beginning, the students of the different scholars used to dispute with each other.
Disputes were not violent. Were they? It wasn't exactly karbala was it?

Even before the madhabs, during the time of the Sahabi RA, they would have heated debates with each other too, disputes etc - but - they didn't let these over take their senses...

...that happened when the Sunni/Shia divide happened, and it was wholly political and a-religious.

Scimi
Reply

Muhaba
01-26-2017, 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Disputes were not violent. Were they? It wasn't exactly karbala was it?

Even before the madhabs, during the time of the Sahabi RA, they would have heated debates with each other too, disputes etc - but - they didn't let these over take their senses...

...that happened when the Sunni/Shia divide happened, and it was wholly political and a-religious.

Scimi
yes, the enemies take advantage of the divisions
Reply

Scimitar
01-26-2017, 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by Muhaba
yes, the enemies take advantage of the divisions
I prefer not to point fingers at dead men... but occasionally I fail there too. May Allah forgive me. Ameen.

Scimi
Reply

Only1not3
01-26-2017, 08:36 PM
The 4 imams school of thought is like the Muslim Supreme Court
Reply

azc
01-27-2017, 08:48 AM
@Scimitar : Man. you are smart! Yes,It's my own opinion....... Neither Hz Isa a.s nor Hz Imam Mahdi ra will follow the books of fiqh and books of ahadith because these books were written after many years of prophetic era. Now think, how did Muslims of khairul quroon follow Islam..? Obviously they followed Quran and sunnah as they were taught by their elders this is why thousands of fatwas of elders without any dalil are found in old books of ahadith e.g. Musannaf anudurazzaq and musannaf ibn abi shaba etc written prior to Bukhari (which was completed in 233 hijri)... Nobody classified bukhari as the most authentic book after Quran but sh ibn salah in 650 hijri. We see so many differences in books of fiqh and books of ahadith. So both Hz isa a.s and Hz imam mahdi ra will have correct and thorough knowledge of kitab and sunnah. Moreover, it's no where mentioned that they will be taught by any teachers in any madarsa. Even It can't be imagined because superiors, especially in deen, don't take knowledge from inferiors. And which faqih or muhaddis can be greater than them..? I
Reply

azc
01-27-2017, 12:19 PM
@nbegam :It's nothing to do with hadith being mutwatir, mash'hur or ahad (thisterminology is also man made), rather, try to prove the word ''sunnah'' mentioned in any hadith, is hereby meant.
Reply

azc
01-27-2017, 12:56 PM
@Scimitar :
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “ Islam began as a something strange and it will return to being strange, so blessed are the strangers .”
what do you understand by ''stranger''..? And which era will it be applied to..?
Reply

azc
01-27-2017, 01:44 PM
I like ages long madhab following tradition though but I don't compel others to follow as it's personal matter of individuals. I see the problem when someone tries to quash the validity of madhab. However. Everyone is free to express his views in healthy way.
Reply

Scimitar
01-27-2017, 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by azc
@Scimitar : Man. you are smart! Yes,It's my own opinion....... Neither Hz Isa a.s nor Hz Imam Mahdi ra will follow the books of fiqh and books of ahadith because these books were written after many years of prophetic era. Now think, how did Muslims of khairul quroon follow Islam..? Obviously they followed Quran and sunnah as they were taught by their elders this is why thousands of fatwas of elders without any dalil are found in old books of ahadith e.g. Musannaf anudurazzaq and musannaf ibn abi shaba etc written prior to Bukhari (which was completed in 233 hijri)... Nobody classified bukhari as the most authentic book after Quran but sh ibn salah in 650 hijri. We see so many differences in books of fiqh and books of ahadith. So both Hz isa a.s and Hz imam mahdi ra will have correct and thorough knowledge of kitab and sunnah. Moreover, it's no where mentioned that they will be taught by any teachers in any madarsa. Even It can't be imagined because superiors, especially in deen, don't take knowledge from inferiors. And which faqih or muhaddis can be greater than them..? I

What is the point of this thread? We've now established that the average Muslim doesn't need to affiliate with a madhab because that's a juristic method for arriving at the correct decision for a particular matter. When the average Muslim is sufferring an issue which requires study to understand in context of Islam, he or she can find what the scholars have already postulated - hence the need for asking "what madhab do you follow" becomes defunct - unless you are a student of knowledge.

Which, to my understanding, you are not.

And as already established, the madhabs are not sects or creeds - they are simply methods by which students of knowledge identify with best. That's all.

So why persist?

Originally Posted by azc
@Scimitar : what do you understand by ''stranger''..? And which era will it be applied to..?
Whether it is last week or the end time, it matters not to the question, "which madhab do you follow". The idea I was pushing at you is the following - If Islam will return to something strange, as per the way it started - then what of the madhabs? You agreed that they will be abolished as the need will no longer be extant anymore. That was my intention, to lead you to this point.

What I was curious to know was, whether this would be your own opinion - or the opinion of scholars, and if so - then they too will have to admit, one does not necessarily need a madhab with such an abrogation hanging over their juristic heads, so to speak. Mahdi, being the one who abrogates the madhabs. And Allah knows best.

Job done akhi.

Originally Posted by azc
I like ages long madhab following tradition though but I don't compel others to follow as it's personal matter of individuals. I see the problem when someone tries to quash the validity of madhab. However. Everyone is free to express his views in healthy way.
SO, are you doing a U-Turn on your Imam an Nawawi RA quote now too?


Scimi
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-13-2017, 09:17 AM
  2. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 11-04-2015, 03:34 AM
  3. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 09-17-2010, 10:21 PM
  4. Replies: 37
    Last Post: 02-14-2009, 06:27 AM
HeartHijab.com | Hijab Sale | Pound Shop | UK Wholesale Certified Face Masks, Hand Sanitiser & PPE

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!