Science

[mr2299muslim]

I know of many facts relating to science in the quran that have been proved to be ALHAMDULILAH 100 percent true but are there things that science has not advanced to prove as yet ? And furthermore are there any facts or signs in The Quran relating to this era of technology?

[Al Sultan]

Yes,well I'm not sure it could be anti Islamics who wanna hate on Islam.Im currently looking at the expansion of the universe,in the Quran it says it is expanding but some people say it's not,it's "stretching" and obviously it's known and confirmed that the universe is expanding but what I don't understand is that,in a million years or so our galaxy will collide win another galaxy,Andromeda galaxy and we're getting closer to it and in a million years we will collide with it,which I don't know how the u inverse is expanding on that point.You got embryology,of course it's scientific,and there is a verse where it says the earth is made from smoke which I don't see any evidence supporting this,do you know about this ?

[mr2299muslim]

There are several unbelievably accuracte facts in The Quran , not only the expanding universe, embryology etc but on astronomy, animals, water cycle, general sciences , pain receptors in body, etc for a complete 2 hour talk on this u should watch Dr.Zakir Naiks Lecture on this matter

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I know of many facts relating to science in the quran that have been proved to be ALHAMDULILAH 100 percent true but are there things that science has not advanced to prove as yet ? And furthermore are there any facts or signs in The Quran relating to this era of technology?

This would be quite impressive, as normally it works the other way round. In other words, scientists make a discovery, and then later on people claim that it was predicted or stated in the Qur'an. What hasn't happened yet, as far as I know, is people noticing a claim in the Qur'an which is then later confirmed by scientific research.

Peace

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[AabiruSabeel]

What hasn't happened yet, as far as I know, is people noticing a claim in the Qur'an which is then later confirmed by scientific research.

Mr Gibson, I thought you'd know better. We Muslims make several claims that have not been confirmed by scientific research until now. Should we enlist them here once again?

Just from the top of my head,
1. We believe in Allah, and we claim He is the One and Only God.
2. We claim angels are beings created from light.
3. We claim there is life after death.
4. We claim that there will be a Day of Resurrection.
5. We claim everyone will be judged according to their belief and actions.
6. We claim the existence of Paradise and Hell.


The list can go on and on. Science has not yet "discovered" all these. Once it does, then I want you to remember that we Muslims had already made all these claims.

[Scimitar]

Yes,well I'm not sure it could be anti Islamics who wanna hate on Islam.Im currently looking at the expansion of the universe,in the Quran it says it is expanding but some people say it's not,it's "stretching" and obviously it's known and confirmed that the universe is expanding but what I don't understand is that,in a million years or so our galaxy will collide win another galaxy,Andromeda galaxy and we're getting closer to it and in a million years we will collide with it,which I don't know how the u inverse is expanding on that point.You got embryology,of course it's scientific,and there is a verse where it says the earth is made from smoke which I don't see any evidence supporting this,do you know about this ?

http://www.irfi.org/articles/article...f_creation.htm

it's a good start.

enjoy,

Scimi

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Mr Gibson, I thought you'd know better. We Muslims make several claims that have not been confirmed by scientific research until now. Should we enlist them here once again?

Just from the top of my head,
1. We believe in Allah, and we claim He is the One and Only God.
2. We claim angels are beings created from light.
3. We claim there is life after death.
4. We claim that there will be a Day of Resurrection.
5. We claim everyone will be judged according to their belief and actions.
6. We claim the existence of Paradise and Hell.

Is this an attempt at humour?

Please read what I said again. I have bolded the important part for you:

What hasn't happened yet, as far as I know, is people noticing a claim in the Qur'an which is then later confirmed by scientific research.

Peace

[Al Sultan]

Greetings,



Is this an attempt at humour?

Please read what I said again. I have bolded the important part for you:

What hasn't happened yet, as far as I know, is people noticing a claim in the Qur'an which is then later confirmed by scientific research.

Peace

The thing is,back then there was no technology what so ever...and it's not like every scientist knows that or this is mentioned in the Quran ?? We look at the discoveries,then we match then with the verses of the Quran.Did Stephen hawking said the expansion of the universe is mentioned in the Quran ? No,I know him and he's an ATHIEST,have you read the Quran ? I suppose not,it mentions the expansion of the universe,mountain having roots ( confirmed also by non Muslim scientists) embryology,water cycle,it says that the moon also has a derived light,in a meaning it's shines because of the Suns reflection.(it's known now) and it takes about how the earth is kind of an egg shape (ostrich like) which some scientists believe in even though some don't?...(I don't get it lol there are tons of pics of the earth from satellites) well you have to do some research,there are still some other scientific things that even science haven't discovered.We Muslims don't need scientific facts to know the Quran is from God,if you just read it and listen to it you would know it's from God.Infact,the Quran is the "speech" of God,many people mistake the Quran as a created book,but that's wrong,Quran means recitation aswell,and obviously the prophecies...the people of the past didn't need any scientific facts to accept the Quran and Islam,If you look at the fundamentals of it,it's amazing...but there are people like you who want scientific facts to accept the Quran,great scholars of Islam,who had the most brilliant minds of understanding islam,themselves didn't even want scientific facts,imam Abu hanifa said "believe in God without any evidence" it was his last words when he died,and he's telling that to us Muslims btw.See not everything needs to be scientific,yes okay it does matter at some point but Islam isn't a scientific group who does research...nor the Quran,yes it does have scientific related verses but God had to make it as simple as possible so the people of 1400 years ago can understand it.Obviously it's specific and complicated but this is gods magic,if you knew how to read,understand and talk Arabic you would get what I mean...

[AabiruSabeel]

Greetings,



Is this an attempt at humour?

Please read what I said again. I have bolded the important part for you:

What hasn't happened yet, as far as I know, is people noticing a claim in the Qur'an which is then later confirmed by scientific research.

Peace

No, I am serious. If you are asking about past discoveries, then yes, Muslims already believed in everything revealed in the Quran before science discovered them. We may not have claimed them to be "scientific" facts but we still claimed them to be FACTS.

We do not base our belief or claims on science because we all know that scientific research is prone to error. We base our belief on revelation from Allah. ... and who is more truthful than Allah? [4:122]

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Hi czgibson! I'd love to challenge you on this matter, though not today; I'm watching for the election results today. But yes, maybe the third weekend from today I'd love to do so. Then we can talk about some of these matters on either this thread or on a separate thread God-willing. And I'll also ask a guarantee from the mods that you won't be banned for the discussion God-willing. Let's wait for things to happen in their own time; good things come to those who wait. :)

And remember you did say that if you found compelling evidence, you'd be willing to move in that direction; and as you know, there's only one direction in which I am hoping you move as both your well-wisher and IB friend.

Sincere Regards & Best Wishes,

What hasn't happened yet, as far as I know, is people noticing a claim in the Qur'an which is then later confirmed by scientific research.

Peace

[Zafran]

salaam

the whole idea isn't reliable - science is an ongoing method based on human finite empirical evidence. The Quran is revelation from God. Clearly scientific method itself cant measure the infinite. Furthermore the whole idea of the universe expanding or evolution or any other scientific fact if falsified in the future is not a fact anymore, which would leave the whole "science and the Quran movement" in trouble.

peace

[talibilm]

The Noble Quran is not Science but in tact and preserved more than science with there is no change in Allah's words and so is infallible for the past 1438 years . But science is also the mercy of Allah which helps us in our lives and Religion and also helps to prove the facts stated in the Noble Quran . Science can help us in our Eeman as Quran tells us to ponder over Allah's creation's to understand the SUPERMOST MIGHT of Allah so science with its invented products like telescope, microscope, astronomy etc we come to know all which was said in the noble Quran is true. We better judge science which is also fallible by the Noble Quran and not vice versa and there are indications in hadith that the Noble Quran will stay as a Living Miracle till the last days through which humans will coming to Islam.
.

Quran as the last Testament from THE CREATOR of this Globe & Galaxies requires its Miracles had to be Continuous and immortal, and its verses contains expandable & Multiple meanings understandable or applicable then EVEN before 1430 years in the Desert among the Pagan Arabs, where just ordinary reading was a Privilege and UNDERSTANDABLE now TODAY in this scientific era. enough to everyone, even a layman to a student or to a scientist in the manner they will understand and the Quran will continue its mission untill the last days of the world by its miraculous nature of accommodating even the most recent scientific discoveries like here in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7BPeVRqBRM

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

@Zafran and @talibilm

Like both of you, I believe that Qur'an is a guidance book and not a science book. However, we also know truths from the Qur'an and Sunnah (prophetic footsteps) that have been confirmed by science. I well understand that science is parochial and therefore the knowledge dependent on available knowledge and tools; but I also know that there are some truths within Islam that will withstand the test of Time; and I'm only going to be having a conversation about truths that can and will.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

[Al Sultan]

i'd love to challenge you on this matter

plzzz searchhh i wanna watch it :d challenge him! Do it!

[muslim brother]

I know of many facts relating to science in the quran that have been proved to be ALHAMDULILAH 100 percent true but are there things that science has not advanced to prove as yet ? And furthermore are there any facts or signs in The Quran relating to this era of technology?

science,theories,research and conclusions ,reports etc are always changing
society and attitudes to science and spirituality are also always in flux

it is neither imperative for science to prove the quran right or vice versa

we delve into dangerous territory when we search for proofs of truth

as islam is based on faith

there is a famous story of a saint who lost an argument to shaytaan after beating shaytan many times
in the end only unconditional faith saved him

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

there is a famous story of a saint who lost an argument to shaytaan after beating shaytan many times
in the end only unconditional faith saved him

Najm-ud-Deen Kubraa and Fakhr-ud-Deen Raazi رحمة الله عليهما. The 99 Proofs.

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

plzzz searchhh i wanna watch it :d challenge him! Do it!

Masha-Allah (as God willed), czgibson is very intelligent, and he's also articulate. So, you know, InshaAllah (God-willing) when I do make that type of thread, I'll need you to make duas (supplications) for both him and myself, for his guidance and for me to be blessed with the ability to do this sincerely and with success.

As guidance, sincerity and success is from Allah.

:)

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

[Al Sultan]

inshallah!

[Al Sultan]

salaam

the whole idea isn't reliable - science is an ongoing method based on human finite empirical evidence. The Quran is revelation from God. Clearly scientific method itself cant measure the infinite. Furthermore the whole idea of the universe expanding or evolution or any other scientific fact if falsified in the future is not a fact anymore, which would leave the whole "science and the Quran movement" in trouble.

peace

But it's very well known and it's proven that the universe is expanding ??.....even the Quran says it...

[kritikvernunft]

The Noble Quran is not Science ...

Well, Immanuel Kant spent thousands of pages explaining why religious scripture cannot be phrased in theorems that can be investigated by science. It must consist of categorical imperatives. That means that it cannot be investigated by science.

We better judge science which is also fallible by the Noble Quran and not vice versa

As the purpose of the Quran is to establish Divine Law, i.e. the definitive list of forbidden behaviours, science is free to do what it wants, as long as it does not engage in behaviours forbidden by the scripture. For example, it is not allowed onto science to experimentally test on living persons that HIV causes AIDS and hence establish the link between HIV and AIDS scientifically. This link must forever remain conjectural.

So, yes, science must conduct its investigations within the limitations of the morality established by the Quran.

[jabeady]

For example, it is not allowed onto science to experimentally test on living persons that HIV causes AIDS and hence establish the link between HIV and AIDS scientifically. This link must forever remain conjectural.

So, yes, science must conduct its investigations within the limitations of the morality established by the Quran.

The medical stricture to "First, do no harm," derives from the original Hippocratic Oath, recorded some 1,000 years before the Quran, and thus was not "established" by Islam.

[kritikvernunft]

The medical stricture to "First, do no harm," derives from the original Hippocratic Oath, recorded some 1,000 years before the Quran, and thus was not "established" by Islam.

The most important part of the Hippocratic Oath is this one:

... if they want to learn it, to impart precept, oral instruction, and all other instruction to my own sons, the sons of my teacher, and to indentured pupils who have taken the physician’s oath, but to nobody else.

Hippocratic morality therefore amounts to making sure to prevent people, who are not part of the family or a colleague's family, from competing with you. The purpose of this oath is to create a cartel which seeks to monopolize the medical sector and maximize its profits.

It is just another professional cartel of which the internet is happily and mercilessly busy destroying the monopoly.

We have no other option than to replace the vast majority of doctors by software, because otherwise too many people, especially poor ones, will remain without reasonable access to health care. So, the solution to the problem of affordable health care is not insurance, aka more of the same, but a wholesale unemploymentation of the medical profession. Software and the internet have already replaced so many professions, that this is nothing special. I think that everybody pretty much expects it to happen any time soon.

All the cartels must be destroyed. That could very well mean the destruction of the State itself, but that was implied anyway.

[jabeady]

The most important part of the Hippocratic Oath is this one:

... if they want to learn it, to impart precept, oral instruction, and all other instruction to my own sons, the sons of my teacher, and to indentured pupils who have taken the physician’s oath, but to nobody else.

Hmm. Most people would consider this to be the most important part: "I will use treatment to help the sick according to my ability and judgment, but never with a view to injury and wrong-doing. Neither will I administer a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a course. Similarly I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion. But I will keep pure and holy both my life and my art. I will not use the knife, not even, verily, on sufferers from stone, but I will give place to such as are craftsmen therein.

"Into whatsoever houses I enter, I will enter to help the sick, and I will abstain from all intentional wrong-doing and harm, especially from abusing the bodies of man or woman, bond or free. And whatsoever I shall see or hear in the course of my profession, as well as outside my profession in my intercourse with men, if it be what should not be published abroad, I will never divulge, holding such things to be holy secrets."

The purpose of this oath is to create a cartel which seeks to monopolize the medical sector and maximize its profits.

No, the purpose of the oath is to ensure that students are instructed in the ethics of their prospective profession before they are taught anything else.

[kritikvernunft]

...never with a view to injury and wrong-doing...

Even Hitler wrote things like that in his manifesto, mein Kampf. It is just fluff to draw the attention away from what really matters.

No, the purpose of the oath is to ensure that students are instructed in the ethics of their prospective profession before they are taught anything else.

No, the purpose of the oath is to make sure that the students understand that they are joining a cartel which uses its monopoly to suck dry the population and to maximize its profits to the detriment of everyone else. Their goal is to make medicine as expensive as possible. Seriously, Murphy's Law insists that of all interpretations, only the worst matters. I do not trust anything that they swear by Apollo The Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the Gods and Goddesses, making them my witnesses. I really do not believe in their pagan dog shi?t. I will never buy into it. In the One God we trust and in nothing else.

[jabeady]

Even Hitler wrote things like that in his manifesto, mein Kampf. It is just fluff to draw the attention away from what really matters.

No, the purpose of the oath is to make sure that the students understand that they are joining a cartel which uses its monopoly to suck dry the population and to maximize its profits to the detriment of everyone else. Their goal is to make medicine as expensive as possible. Seriously, Murphy's Law insists that of all interpretations, only the worst matters. I do not trust anything that they swear by Apollo The Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the Gods and Goddesses, making them my witnesses. I really do not believe in their pagan dog shi?t. I will never buy into it. In the One God we trust and in nothing else.

You see everything in terms of your agenda. The entire medical profession a cartel, that literally anyone can join by simply taking an oath to minister to people? I wonder you don't consider the Quran to be nothing more than a political manifesto.

[Zafran]

But it's very well known and it's proven that the universe is expanding ??.....even the Quran says it...

Scientist will say evolution is proven? do you agree with them?

science is based on falsification. Today a theory is right - few experiments later its wrong and some other theory is right etc etc.

[kritikvernunft]

You see everything in terms of your agenda.

Well, who doesn't?

The entire medical profession a cartel, that literally anyone can join by simply taking an oath to minister to people?

I think that you may have misunderstood what the oath says. It says that you should not teach the knowledge/secrets to anybody who is not your own son or your teacher's son, et cetera. The purpose is obviously to create a closed, nepotistic, cartel club. They want to keep the money in the family. Fine. I do that too. However, I don't see any reason why the State would legitimize that kind of behaviour, and help enforce their monopoly.

I wonder you don't consider the Quran to be nothing more than a political manifesto.

I have already said what I think about the Quran. It is Divine Law. It is a list of forbidden behaviours from metaphysical origin. The metaphysical origin is the creator of the universe. I don't need that hypocritical oath for anything. I do not believe in it. I do not trust it. I just consider it to be a pagan depravity:

I swear by Apollo The Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the Gods and Goddesses, making them my witnesses.

The true purpose of that oath is Satanic evil, because all these false gods witnessing the oath are shadows of a race of dead pagan dogs wallowing in their own excrement.

[Born_Believer]

The Hippocratic oath has been brought up and as a medical student I just want to set the record straight:

The Hippocratic oath now is very different to what may be viewed as the original. It's the same in name only if we're being honest. For example the "do no harm" segment. It no longer applies as cutting a patient open is initially "doing harm". That's how we get taught it.

I won't go into professing allegiance to various Gods of the time.

[Al Sultan]

Scientist will say evolution is proven? do you agree with them?

science is based on falsification. Today a theory is right - few experiments later its wrong and some other theory is right etc etc.

Well I obviously don't believe them but,it's proven that the universe is expanding,and the Quran says so..so how come ??