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aaj
11-10-2016, 07:47 PM
What is the ruling on describing the Qur’an as the eternal word of Allah?


Praise be to Allah

Firstly:

The Holy Qur’an is the word of Allah, may He be exalted, its words, letters and meanings. It originated from Him and will return to Him. It was uttered by Allah, may He be exalted, and heard from Him by Jibreel (peace be upon him), who brought it down to Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). Allah, may He be glorified, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“That (this) is indeed an honourable recital (the Noble Qur’an).

In a Book well-guarded (with Allah in the heaven i.e. Al-Lauh Al-Mahfooz).

Which (that Book with Allah) none can touch but the purified (i.e. the angels)”

[al-Waaqi‘ah 56:77-80]


“Alif Laam Meem. (These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur’an, and none but Allah (Alone) knows their meanings.)

The revelation of the Book (this Qur’an) is from the Lord of the Alameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists) in which there is no doubt”

[as-Sajdah 32:1,2]

“The revelation of this Book (the Qur’an) is from Allah, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise”

[az-Zumar 39:1].


The Qur’an comes under the heading of His words or speech, which is one of His attributes. Therefore whoever says that it is created is a disbeliever. This is the belief of Ahl as-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa‘ah, in contrast to the beliefs of deviant groups.

Secondly:

Describing the Qur’an as eternal or describing the words of Allah, may He be exalted, as eternal, may be interpreted in two ways:

The first interpretation is:

that it is not created, as mentioned above, and that attribute of speech, in the case of Allah, may He be exalted, is eternal, for He speaks whenever He wills, however He wills, to whomever of His slaves He wills. This is sound and correct, and this is what is meant by those of Ahl as-Sunnah who give the description of eternal to the Qur’an or to the divine attribute of speech in general.

Among those who used this description was Abu’l-Qaasim al-Laalkaa’i in his book Sharh Usool I‘tiqaad Ahl as-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa‘ah.

He said (2/224): What we may understand from various reports narrated from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) is that the Qur’an is one of the eternal attributes of Allah.

Then he said (2/227):

There are reports of consensus among the Sahaabah that the Qur’an is not created.

It is not possible that anyone could have said these words except Allah… End quote.


Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah
(may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The early generations said: The Qur’an is the word of Allah that was revealed and is not created. And they said that He speaks when He wills. Then they explained that the words of Allah are eternal, meaning that the divine attribute of speech is eternal.

Not one of them said that any particular words of His are eternal, and not one of them said that the Qur’an is eternal.

Rather they said that it is the word of Allah; it was revealed and is not created.

The second interpretation is:

that the Qur’an is a concept, or a concept and letters, that Allah uttered from eternity, then never uttered it after that. This is one of the innovations of the Ash‘aris and those who agreed with them among the Islamic philosophers (ahl al-kalaam), by which they sought to avoid falling into the innovation of the Mu‘tazilah and Jahamis who held the view that the Qur’an was created.

Whoever says that the Qur’an is eternal, meaning it literally, his understanding is flawed. Moreover, the way they presented this idea is very general and there is no report from the early generations to support it.

Because of this false meaning that may be indicated by this general wording, and because it is not reported or found in any report from the early generations, what we think most likely to be the case is that the word eternal should not be used to describe the Qur’an. Rather we should say concerning it what the early generations said: the Qur’an is the word of Allah, not created.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The followers of the salaf (early generations) say: The word of Allah is eternal, that is: He has the attribute of speech and speaks whenever He wills. They do not say that a specific word is eternal, such as His call to Moosa and the like.

Based on that, whoever says that the Qur’an is eternal, or the word of Allah is eternal, in the sense of the fist interpretation, which is that the Qur’an and all the words of Allah are revelation from Him, and not created, yet it is subject to His will, this is valid, although it is preferable and more prudent to limit it to the wording and phrases narrated from the early generations, that avoid being too general and being subject to false interpretations.

But if he means the second interpretation, which says that Allah’s words are not subject to His will, then this is false, and the words used are also innovation (bid‘ah).


Full answer available at : https://islamqa.info/en/100585
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فصيح الياسين
11-10-2016, 07:53 PM
Dear bro u really knw what this post mean.. and people would understand? ?
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aaj
11-16-2016, 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by فصيح الياسين
Dear bro u really knw what this post mean.. and people would understand? ?
Yes, Alhamdulillah. Allah gives insight and understanding to whom He please. There's a hadith that says a time will come when people will recite the Quran beautifully and know all this about Islam but it won't go past their throats. People are quick to pass takfir on others based on the first thing they hear, and some get a sense of arrogance to them when the learn a bit of the deen and know more than others. This is very dangerous not only for themselves but also for others because such attitude will only put others off of Islam.

This not the complete passage, the full passage is at the link. This just has the main points. Not all people may be able to comprehend it, so people who are unable to understand it would need to ask a scholar.
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aaj
11-16-2016, 07:54 PM
Kalam-Speech

Speech is an Eternal and Everlasting Attribute. He is a Speaker by this Attribute; a Commander, Forbidder, Promiser, and Threatener. It is not like the speech of another, rather it is Eternal by the Eternality of the Self. It does not resemble the speech of the creation. It is neither a sound that takes place by the passage of air or the collision of bodies nor a letter that is cut off by closing the lips or by the motion of the tongue.
We believe that Musa heard the Eternal Speech of Allah without it being a letter or sound, just as the believers will see the Self of Allah in the Hereafter without the Self being a mass[1] or a characteristic, because the mind does not deem hearing something that is not a letter or sound as impossible.


The Speech of His Self, Exalted is He, is not successive letters like our speech. If the reciter recites the Speech of Allah [i.e. the Revealed Qur’an, not the Attribute], then this recitation is of a letter and a sound; it is not eternal.


These details were conveyed by Abu Hanifah, and he is from the Salaf. He was alive during part of the first century, then he died in year 150 after the Hijrah. He said, “Allah Speaks without an instrument and without a letter, and we speak with an instrument and a letter.” So let that be understood. The issue is not as the Likeners have said, that the Salaf did not say that Allah is a Speaker with a Speech that is not of a letter, and that this is only the innovation of the Ash^ariyys. This talk from Abu Hanifah is confirmed; he mentioned it in one of his five treatises.


The word Qur’an has two usages. It is used in reference to the expression revealed to Muhammad ﷺ, and in reference to the Speech which is the Eternal Attribute; that Speech which is not a letter or a sound, neither is it Arabic language nor any other language. If what is intended by it [i.e., the word Al-Qur’an] is the Speech of the Self, then it is Eternal; it is not a letter or a sound. If what is meant by it and by the rest of the Heavenly Books is the Revealed Expression, then among them is what is Hebrew, and among it is what is Suriyaniyy. These languages as well as the other languages were not existent, then Allah the Exalted Created them and they became existent. Allah the Exalted was Existing before everything, and He was a Speaker before those languages existed, and He never ceased to be a Speaker; and His Speech, which is His Attribute, is Eternal and Everlasting, and it is One Speech. All of the Revealed Books are expressions of the Eternal and Everlasting Speech of the Self.


It is not necessary for the expression to be created that the expressed be created. Had we written on a board or on a wall “Allah” and then it was said, “This is Allah,” does that mean those scripted letters are the Self of Allah? No intelligent person is deluded about that; no one thinks that is the case. Rather, it is only understood from that that these letters are an expression referring to God, the One Who is Existing and worshipped and is the Creator of everything.


Despite that, it is not said, “The Qur’an is created.” Rather it is clarified, when teaching, that the Revealed Expression is not confirmed as an Attribute of the Self of Allah. Rather, it is Created by Allah, because the Revealed Expression is made of letters. Some of those letters precede other letters, and whatever is like that is definitely a created event; however, it is not the authoring of an Angel or a human. Therefore, it is an expression of the Speech of the Self, that Speech which is not described as being Arabic or Hebrew or Suriyaniyy. All of those Revealed Expressions are called the Speech of Allah. That is, the Attribute of Speech which is confirmed for the Self of Allah is called the Speech of Allah, and the Revealed Expression, which is an expression of that Eternal Speech, is also called the Speech of Allah.


Both usages for “Al-Qur’an” are literal usages, because literal usage will either be linguistic, religious or normal. Using the word “Al-Qur’an” for the Revealed Expression is a religious literal usage, so let that be known. What clarifies that is that the Majestic Expression, “Allah,” is an expression that refers to the Eternal and Everlasting Self. So if we said, “We worship Allah,” then that Self is the One that is intended by our statement; and if this expression were written, and it was said, “What is this?”, it would be said “Allah”, meaning that these letters refer to that Eternal Everlasting Self, not with the meaning that those letters are the Self that we worship.

http://www.riadnachef.org/index.php?...text&Itemid=56
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
11-16-2016, 09:55 PM
Riad Nachef. There's a name I haven't heard in a long time.

Do you know who you're quoting, akhi? That guy was one of the leaders of AICP. The Ahbaash group. The "Hararis". Their leader was `Abdullaah al-Harari. I knew a couple of people who belonged to that sect.
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