Trouble in Indonesia

[Logikon]

A governor of an Indonesian provence is Chinese descent and a Christian.

He is looking to winning the next election.

A Muslim said: "The Koran says a muslim cannot vote for a non-muslim".

The governor said " No you are mistaken".

"Blasphemy! blasphemy! blasphemy! " said the muslims.

The police stationed 18,000 men around Jakarta as 100,000 muslims rioted.

Islam, the religion of peace.


This is one link to the story. There are lots more.

http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/ahok-and-indonesias-secular-identity

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[Futuwwa]

ProTip: If you're interested in actual honest discussion, don't repost the favourite meme of Islam-haters.

[ardianto]

The police stationed 18,000 men around Jakarta as 100,000 muslims rioted.

Who said 100.000 Muslims rioted?. There was only a clash near presidential palace between police and few thousands HMI members that chose to stay, while mostly of protesters followed the agreement to leave location after sunset. Riot that happened in Penjaringan did relate to this demonstration.

Situation in Indonesia is normal. Mostly of people don't care about Ahok case.

[kritikvernunft]

Indonesia is my great regret, because the Google images are fantastically attractive.

Indonesia was my original plan, but with their kitas, vitas, or even this here:


Valid for 6 months.

The purpose of this visa is to visit friends / relationships, social - cultural or educational exchange. With this visa you are not allowed to do business activities in Indonesia or to take up employment.

Sponsorship is required by an Indonesian citizen. You need to supply the following documents:Your Indonesian sponsor needs to supply:

• Sponsorship letter of sponsor
• Copy of sponsor identity card whos residence is in Indonnesia - Bali (KTP)
• Copy of sponsor family register
• Copy of sponsor bank account statements
  

You need to supply:

• Copy of your passport
  
• 2 (two) passport sized photographs (4 x 6 )

Procedure for processing the Sosial Budaya:


There are two ways of applying for this visa:

1. If you apply for this visa at the Indonesian embassy in Singapore it is easy because you only need the sponsorship letter and your application is not processed through Jakarta. We can help you with all nescessary documents. This process takes about 1 day. The process in the Singapore emabssy can take up to 3-4 days or you can use an agent in Singapore who can help you to process only in one day. You can contact Mr. Ismail Hamdan, +65-3345520 or Mr. Malik Yusof +65-96753307.

2. If you apply for the visa in other countries, your documents need to be processed in Jakarta. This process can take up to 4 days before a decision is made and the visa is granted. If your application is approved you will receive a telex visa wich you can take to the nearest Indonesian embassy or consulate. A fee is payable in local currencies for the visa application and duration of processing is depending on the embassy - consulate where the visa is applied.

After you have recieved your social visa, you must go to Indonesia as soon as possible. You will get 60 days free visit , monthly extendable in immigration to a total stay of 6 months.



By whom do they expect to get invaded to steal low-paying jobs from the locals? Seriously, they are waiting for Godot. Nobody is going to invade the bottom of the Indonesian labour market. The laws of entropy mandates that the invasion only goes from a lower bottom to a higher bottom. There is no lower bottom than the one in Indonesia. So, where is that imaginary yet lower bottom than their own? There are no cheap workers interested in invading the bottom of the Indonesian labour market. They simply don't exist!

Poverty is only a problem, if it also invades the brain. Copying regulations from other countries, without understanding what they are for ... is one of the reason why countries are poor. Seriously, they are totally missing the point. But ok, there are other choices. So, I certainly did not bend backwards to get a "kitas", "vitas", or "whateveras". I just made another choice, if only, because I can afford it.

Indonesia clearly has worse problems than a Christian governor. What about the imbecile immigration -and other ministers? The Donald Trump idiot is still several orders of magnitude smarter than them. But then again, I am not Indonesian, and I do not plan to live there any time soon, so, why would I care?

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[ardianto]

Indonesia is my great regret, because the Google images are fantastically attractive.

Indonesia was my original plan, but with their kitas, vitas, or even this here:

Indonesia gives visa-free policy for 168 countries. If you are resident of one of these countries, you can visit Indonesia without visa and stay for 30 days as tourist. However, if you want to stay longer because other purpose, like archaeological study, cultural study, you must request visa of "kunjungan sosial budaya" (social cultural visit). Then you will be given temporary ID card that called "Kitas"

[kritikvernunft]

Indonesia gives visa-free policy for 168 countries. If you are resident of one of these countries, you can visit Indonesia without visa and stay for 30 days as tourist. However, if you want to stay longer because other purpose, like archaeological study, cultural study, you must request visa of "kunjungan sosial budaya" (social cultural visit). Then you will be given temporary ID card that called "Kitas"

1. The Indonesian sponsoring company initiates the work permit application process by submitting a Foreign Manpower Utilization Plan (RPTKA) to the Department of Manpower. The Department of Manpower generally processes the RPTKA within ten business days.
   
2. Once the RPTKA application process is complete, the Indonesian sponsoring company must submit a TA-01 Work Recommendation Application to the Department of Manpower in Jakarta. The Department of Manpower usually issues an approved Worker Recommendation in four business days.
   
3. With the approval of the TA-01, the foreign worker will obtain his or her VITAS (the entry visa required for work authorization purposes) at the Indonesian Embassy or Consulate in his or her country of legal residence or citizenship. If the foreign worker intends to begin working immediately upon entering Indonesia, he or she should not enter Indonesia until the work permit process has been finalized, as noted below. (Under the old regulation, foreign workers possessing their VITAS were allowed to enter Indonesia to continue the work permit application process in-country).
   
4. According to the new regulation, the Indonesian sponsoring company, or the company's authorized representative, is required to pay a Special Skills Development Fund (DPKK) fee of US$1,200 (twelve months at US$100.-/month fee) at the time the Department of Manpower issues the approval of the Worker Recommendation (TA-01). The DPKK is paid to the Department of Manpower.
   
5. Once the DPKK fee has been paid, the Department of Manpower will take an additional seven to ten business days to finalize the work permit application.
6. Once the work permit application has been approved, the foreign worker may enter Indonesia with his or her VITAS to begin employment. (Under the old regulation, foreign nationals were allowed to enter Indonesia under a VITAS status, but were prohibited from working for up to 30 days until the work permit application process was completed.)
   

How can anybody so completely miss the ball? How far are they going to jump with $1200 in terms of special skills development? The better training idea would be to let Indonesian workers work alongside skilled outsiders. However, these outsiders are not going to come, because every single country on the globe is begging and clamouring for people with special skills. Hence, there is nobody with special skills who needs Indonesia, not even Indonesians with special skills, because they are using their skills in other and better-paying countries. That is why there are no technology startups there either. It is just not interesting. They simply do not want to get off your back. Seriously, nobody has time for that nonsense.


The new immigration law which came into force in May 2011 provides for a MUCH more severe sanction than UU 9/1992 if a foreign citizen is caught working without proper visa and work permit. Don't risk five years in jail, get the proper documents before you start working in Indonesia! The wording of the new regulation:

Dipidana dengan pidana penjara paling lama 5 (lima) tahun dan pidana denda paling paling banyak Rp500.000.000,00 (lima ratus juta rupiah):
a. setiap Orang Asing yang dengan sengaja menyalahgunakan atau melakukan kegiatan yang tidak sesuai dengan maksud dan tujuan pemberian Izin Tinggal yang diberikan kepadanya;
b. setiap orang yang menyuruh atau memberikan kesempatan kepada Orang Asing menyalahgunakan atau melakukan kegiatan yang tidak sesuai dengan maksud atau tujuan pemberian Izin Tinggal yang diberikan kepadanya.


But from heaven's sake, where are these illegal foreign workers supposed to be coming from? You do have them in Malaysia, and a lot of them are Indonesian! ;-)
I can see the existing population of foreign workers in Indonesia gradually move to Singapore instead, and fire up their laptops there. Imagine The Philippines come to their senses -- unlikely actually -- and the crime rate goes down there -- very unlikely I guess -- then jumping twice a year on the plane from Manila to Jakarta will be the new red. Well, purple is the new red. Sorry for that. I only do technology startups. I don't deal with the old economy. That is stuff for other people.

Upon admission to Indonesia with his or her VITAS, the sponsoring company or immigration supplier in Indonesia should assist the worker in applying for his or her Long-Stay Visa (KITAS) and obtaining a Multiple Exit and Re-Entry Permit (MERP).

Woah! I am supposed to "sponsor" myself. What next?

Uber and Airbnb never came to Indonesia. They never will. They have simply said that they are not paying for a MERP or QUERP. Indonesia are regulating themselves out of the new economy, while the old economy will gradually become abandoned. Let them stare at its shrinking money pool. Everybody can see this coming, but some people, well, they'll never see anything at all. What a fantastic idea to make them the government. Who the hell cares about these Christian governors? Sell them to China! ;-)

[ardianto]

How can anybody so completely miss the ball? How far are they going to jump with $1200 in terms of special skills development? The better training idea would be to let Indonesian workers work alongside skilled outsiders. However, these outsiders are not going to come, because every single country on the globe is begging and clamouring for people with special skills. Hence, there is nobody with special skills who needs Indonesia, not even Indonesians with special skills, because they are using their skills in other and better-paying countries. That is why there are no technology startups there either. It is just not interesting. They simply do not want to get off your back. Seriously, nobody has time for that nonsense.

We (Indonesia) basically don't need foreign worker because we have many people and we have better policy. We send our own people to learn in other countries, then back to Indonesia and aplicate their knowledge. My maternal grandpa was sent to India to learn agriculture before govt gave him new position as head of holticulture bureau in his city. My father who was engineer was sent to USA before govt gave him new post as head of region in construction department. My brother in law who is now professor in education was sent to Japan by government.

Indeed, there are expatriates in Indonesia. However, they work in foreign investment companies, and sent by their head office.

But from heaven's sake, where are these illegal foreign workers supposed to be coming from?

China People Republic.

[kritikvernunft]

We (Indonesia) basically don't need foreign worker ...

Someone setting up a shoe factory is not a "foreign worker". It is someone who can choose between Indonesia, Vietnam, or China, and who has for the last three decades consistently been choosing China.

Indeed, there are expatriates in Indonesia. However, they work in foreign investment companies, and sent by their head office.

That will stay like that for some time until the one or the other variation of Uber or Airbnb takes over their industry. Then, their head office will be virtual too, and people will fire up their laptops from wherever their fancy is. In technology, it is already very much like that. Indonesia and its regulations are not useful whatsoever in that environment. You see, if you cannot compete, because you are behind on technology, or because you are more expensive, you will inevitably have to close the doors some day. I think that this kind of misery was inevitable for the USA, and therefore, I somehow can relate to Donald Trump's constituency, but I wonder why Indonesia is doing it like that too, especially, since they have less money that the USA to hand out in welfare to the unemployed, destitute, and poor. But then again, all misery is self-inflicted, if not in this life, then in the previous. As far as I am concerned, I am not going to solve the problems of the world, and hence, let everybody just do as they like! ;-)

[kritikvernunft]

By the way, do you know why "foreign worker" Steve Jobs did not choose Indonesia for the production of the IPhone? He picked China, of course, and that is his God-given right. The reason for that is, that nobody in a similar position, would ever consider picking Indonesia. They simply do not understand the real world over there in Indonesia. We do not pay for coming over. It is Indonesia that pays us, or else the "foreign worker" will simply pick another country. The entire world market utterly rejects, and would not ever consider buying an Indonesian phone. Even more funny, the Indonesians themselves, would never consider buying an Indonesian phone. When product after product, industry after industry, will have closed the doors, the idiots will finally understand one thing. Move after move, they will find themselves cornered against the wall, on their knees, begging for loans from their corrupt friends at the IMF, who will most likely refuse to lend them one lousy dollar. This is how should be, because no one has the right to prevent someone else from fully enjoying his self-inflicted misery.

[Logikon]

See the post at the top of this thread. The man has been found guilty and been sentenced to jail.

A secular court has interpreted the Koran in a way that makes Islam look bad.

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[fromelsewhere]

Yep, a very sad case. This kind of story certainly does not give a good impression of Islam. And Indonesia was boasted by Obama and others to be a relatively moderate Muslim country.

EDIT: before my comment gets misunderstood, I am blaming the people who claim to be practicing Islam for this mess (this is NOT an attack on religion).

[ardianto]

The situation in Indonesia today is not conducive. There is high tension between Muslims and non-Muslims. But most of the people of Indonesia choose to be in the middle and still maintain unity.

One thing that is expected from the international world is, please, do not overly intervene what is happening. Trust the government and people of Indonesia who are trying to reduce tension and make the situation back conducive for peaceful life.

[fromelsewhere]

The situation in Indonesia today is not conducive. There is high tension between Muslims and non-Muslims. But most of the people of Indonesia choose to be in the middle and still maintain unity.

One thing that is expected from the international world is, please, do not overly intervene what is happening. Trust the government and people of Indonesia who are trying to reduce tension and make the situation back conducive for peaceful life.

I do believe that for the most part, people in Indonesia are very moderate, but unfortunately, there is an increasing vocal minority that is not too moderate and that has successfully pushed to have this unfortunate Christian Chinese politician arrested on extremely bogus blasphemy charges. I do hope that this is a one-off for Indonesia and not the beginning of a worrisome trend, as we have seen happening in other Muslim countries in the last couple of decades.

[Karl]

Indonesia is a secular state. They are more interested in what "the international community", the UN, and other Zionist internationalist tentacles have to say about what is "right and wrong", rather than relying purely on Islam. If you don't have Sharia law then it is not an Islamic state. The vast majority of Indonesians are sycophants to the West and also have a big brothel called Bali. I suppose it is not surprising, as they are so far from Arabia, that Islam has been watered down to nearly nothing.

[fromelsewhere]

Well, well... Look what we have here! The leader of a powerful Indonesian Islamist organization that led the push to jail Jakarta's Christian governor is now advocating for Indonesia's ethnic Chinese minority to have their wealth taken away from them.

Doesn't this kind of news stories enrage you? These people are using Islam as an excuse to commit all kinds of injustices. (As you all know, I am agnostic, and these kinds of stories make me lean a bit more on the agnostic side each day).

http://www.reuters.com/article/uk-indonesia-politics-cleric-exclusive-idUSKBN18817N
Exclusive - Indonesian Islamist leader says ethnic Chinese wealth is next target

[ardianto]

Well, well... Look what we have here! The leader of a powerful Indonesian Islamist organization that led the push to jail Jakarta's Christian governor is now advocating for Indonesia's ethnic Chinese minority to have their wealth taken away from them.

Doesn't this kind of news stories enrage you? These people are using Islam as an excuse to commit all kinds of injustices. (As you all know, I am agnostic, and these kinds of stories make me lean a bit more on the agnostic side each day).

http://www.reuters.com/article/uk-indonesia-politics-cleric-exclusive-idUSKBN18817N
Exclusive - Indonesian Islamist leader says ethnic Chinese wealth is next target

Few Muslim organisations in Indonesia indeed, play the racial issue card to smooth the way for their political agenda. They blow up anti Chinese sentiment to gain support from racist people.

Is the racist behavior like this justified in Islam?. Of course not. But unfortunately in politic people often neglect the ethic and even religious values. Once the political ambition blind their hearts, they will forget right or wrong, and only care on win or lose.

Yes, one of the problems that happen in Indonesia nowadays is behavior of some Muslim figures that very racist.

[fromelsewhere]

To conclude our discussion on Indonesia: http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/rea...ead091823a5adb

These 2 men were in a private house when vigilantes broke in to get them arrested.

[ardianto]

To conclude our discussion on Indonesia: http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/rea...ead091823a5adb

These 2 men were in a private house when vigilantes broke in to get them arrested.

That's happened in Aceh, the only province in Indonesia that implement sharia. Under Aceh's sharia law, punishment for committing homosexuality is caning, not death punishment like in ISIS area.