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Al Sultan
11-14-2016, 02:09 PM
Assalamo Alkium brothers and sisters,


A few days ago,my muslim friends were challenged by an atheist,(the guy who seems to enjoy trolling Christians and Muslims in our high school) and he told them "If homosexuality is forbidden in Islam,then why did god make it natural?" at this point both of my friends were laughing,they thought he was just messing with them, annoying them in other words.And he actually proved this by showing a video,i cant say that I saw,but I was very confused at this moment,(I didn't join the discussion,i was just listening to them,and I did infact saw 2 giraffes doing homosexual acts,also the video changed and it was penguins) so there are homosexual animals out there,which apparently proves that homosexuality is natural.At this point both of my friends were quiet,he asking them why is it forbidden if god made it natural among animals? .. and there you got both of my muslim friends stunned by this mulhid (atheist) .

I did some research after this argument and apparently homosexuality is indeed natural (among animals aswell) .so the question to me...

If Allah forbid homosexuality among humans..then why is it natural?? and why does it exist among animals?? (I mean whats the point of animals having homosexual relationships?..) and obviously I'm having much wiswas over this..so I would like someone who understands this crystal clear and explain it..

Wa assalamo alikum wa rahmutillahi wa barakato.
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kritikvernunft
11-14-2016, 02:20 PM
Pigs eat their own shi?t, and yes, this is natural. Since it is natural to do so, tell the atheist to start eating his own shi?t in front of you. He is into doing all things "natural" anyway.
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
11-14-2016, 02:27 PM
Animals eat each other. Therefore, eating each other is natural. Human beings should eat each other. Let's start with the Mulhid (atheist). Slaughter him, skin him, cut him up into ribs, chops, cutlets, even make some sausages and patties, marinate it and chuck it on a braai.

The sausages you can have on rolls, and the patties on burgers.

Some potato salad will go well with that.

#AllNatural
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Serinity
11-14-2016, 02:41 PM
:salam:

Confusion arises when people forget we are not animals.

The dividing line is - we have morals, character, dignity, etc. Animals don't.

tell them to go naked since animals do it. We are not animals and we do not follow them. Allah created animals who can fly. Created Iblees, etc.

tell them about sharks, they sometimes kill their own siblings. (Research it first, but I am sure I read about that)

Allah did not create us to imitate and follow animals. We know of animals who kill and eat their own mercilessly - how can you say it is merciless when Allah created them that way? Because Allah endowed us wigh morals that animals do not have.

Allah alam
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Al Sultan
11-14-2016, 02:54 PM
So,this is all from god right? homosexuality is natural? right? and he wants to test us to see if he we will follow what he forbid,basically yes?
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Al Sultan
11-14-2016, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by kritikvernunft
tell the atheist to start eating his own shi?t in front of you. He is into doing all things "natural" anyway.
I think that'll be a good question.
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*charisma*
11-14-2016, 04:10 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

Originally Posted by Al Sultan
So,this is all from god right? homosexuality is natural? right? and he wants to test us to see if he we will follow what he forbid,basically yes?
You need to understand the concept of fitrah in Islam. There isn't necessarily a direct translation of this word in English, but it sort of means our natural inclination or innateness. For example, everyone is born as a Muslim, this is a fitrah, until the parents of the child change his religion. So if you think of Ibraheem (as), even though everyone around him was an idolator, he was not because he was strong-willed in following his fitrah which was to believe in the Oneness of Allah swt. Most people don't remain nonMuslims because they've had a religious awareness, but rather because their parents and grandparents are of that faith. They have an emotional attachment to it, and as we know, when we are strongly attached to an idea or something, we do everything to make it logical and excusable in our minds. This is what's happening in the world today; they widely try to normalize homosexuality because they may have friends or family members who are homosexual.

Homosexuality is against our fitrah. It's either an abnormality (such as those who claim they were "born gay" or have other sexual conditions) or an abuse of one's fitrah (such as those who claim to be "bisexual" or "sexually experimental"). We are not animals; we can control our actions and even our feelings. Animals, however, cannot because they are instinctive. And even some animals who are affected by the environment can express some homosexual behaviors that are abnormal to their species.

Everything in this world happens with the Will of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. One thing that He wills is free choice. So if we have opportunities to do what is right, this is what we should choose. We are tested with everything, and there are consequences and rewards that come with them either in this world or the hereafter depending on our choices.
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noraina
11-14-2016, 04:13 PM
The points above are accurate enough, lol.

Numerous species will eat their own young, even their own 'husbands', so in the name of freedom and equality for all this should be made legal, no?

And in direct regard to the homosexuality argument put forward by these kinds of people. When it is done in the animal world it is done to display dominance and show who's boss - it isn't done for pleasure and isn't *gasp* a sign of how liberal and 'forward-thinking' animals are. Animals are fundamentally different to humans - homosexuality is never natural or 'normal.

Honestly people should learn to at least argue their case better instead of using straw man arguments.
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Scimitar
11-14-2016, 04:39 PM
If an atheist wants to lower his worth to that of base animal carnal desires, then to define him as human would be an over statement, as by his own volition he would defend his right to be gay.

His argument, that being gay is natural is flawed, because if it was natural for us to have life long homosexual partnerships, the human race would be an endangered species.

Animals in the animal Kindgom will have homosexual encounters for whatever animalistic reasonings, I do not understand why and I will never get it (because its not natural lol) - to me it's the most unnatural thing. But are they only homosexual? or are they heterosexual? the latter, you will find is more accurate. That doesn't make the homosexual part ok. Duh.

Any human who claims homosexuality is natural, is most likely an atheist - meaning, not only do they not believe in God, but they do not have such an high opinion of humanity either - and therefore, justifying homosexuality with a flawed "naturalistic" argument is all they can really do.

It's not natural, it's not healthy, and it leads to HIV which could become AIDS.

So, to the atheist who adopts the view that homosexuality is natural - nice one, you just slapped the faces of your ancestors who actually had heterosxual marriages so you could be born, for what? To support a flawed argument ? :D

Cut nose - spite face, while I grab my popcorn bucket... fun fun.

Scimi
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Supernova
11-14-2016, 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by noraina
The points above are accurate enough, lol.

Numerous species will eat their own young, even their own 'husbands', so in the name of freedom and equality for all this should be made legal, no?

And in direct regard to the homosexuality argument put forward by these kinds of people. When it is done in the animal world it is done to display dominance and show who's boss - it isn't done for pleasure and isn't *gasp* a sign of how liberal and 'forward-thinking' animals are. Animals are fundamentally different to humans - homosexuality is never natural or 'normal.

Honestly people should learn to at least argue their case better instead of using straw man arguments.
Asalaamualaykum Al Sultan

After reading all of the above answers and this answer that Noraina has given which says all the above sums up the argument is in reality true.

You dont have any idea under the Sun what is regarded as natural.

Some frogs in the amazon are even bisexual so that should now add to argument if bisexuality is "natural" (According to your "logic")

You also need to take a course on logistics because your argument is flawed by assuming he had the proof yet you havent investigated the issue.

Lets start this little logistics crush course for right now - you only say someone proved something when your yourself have a full complete investigation on the issue at hand.
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aaj
11-14-2016, 07:33 PM
Some researchers believe this behavior to have its origin in male social organization and social dominance, similar to the dominance traits shown in prison sexuality.

Others suggest the social function of sex (both homosexual and heterosexual) is not necessarily connected to dominance, but serves to strengthen alliances and social ties within a flock.

Others have argued that social organization theory is inadequate because it cannot account for some homosexual behaviors, for example, penguin species where male individuals mate for life and refuse to pair with females when given the chance.



Physiological basis

A definite physiological explanation or reason for homosexual activity in animal species has not been agreed upon by researchers in the field. Numerous scholars are of the opinion that varying levels (either higher or lower) of the sex hormones in the animal, in addition to the size of the animal's gonads, play a direct role in the sexual behavior and preference exhibited by that animal.


Additional studies pertaining to hormone involvement in homosexual behavior indicate that when administering treatments of testosterone and estradiol to female heterosexual animals, the elevated hormone levels increase the likelihood of homosexual behavior. Additionally, boosting the levels of sex hormones during an animal's pregnancy appears to increase the likelihood of it birthing a homosexual offspring.

Genetic basis

Researchers found that disabling the fucose mutarotase (FucM) gene in laboratory mice – which influences the levels of estrogen to which the brain is exposed – caused the female mice to behave as if they were male as they grew up. "The mutant female mouse underwent a slightly altered developmental programme in the brain to resemble the male brain in terms of sexual preference" said Professor Chankyu Park of the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology in Daejon, South Korea, who led the research. His most recent findings have been published in the BMC Genetics journal on July 7, 2010.[36][37] Another study found that by manipulating a gene in fruit flies (Drosophila), homosexual behavior appeared to have been induced. However, in addition to homosexual behavior, several abnormal behaviors were also exhibited apparently due to this mutation.

Neurobiological basis

In March 2011, research showed that serotonin is involved in the mechanism of sexual orientation of mice. A study conducted on fruit flies found that inhibiting the dopamine neurotransmitter inhibited lab-induced homosexual behavior.

- wiki

What all this tells us is that 1. from physiological basis, it all has to do with imbalance of sex hormones and develop of the size of gonads, 2. from genetic basis, genetic mutation can lead to this behavior and 3. from neurobiological basis, level of serotonin involved influence this behavior.

So whatever videos someone shows, the science above backs up the fact that there is nothing 'natural' about it. It is because of the results of the stated above research and/or the social conformity for dominance or allegiance for strengthening the pack, or just not enough comprehensive search exists to properly reach a conclusive answer. All of this is based on scientific research alone.

If you look at the human population, many people are not gay but they become that while in prison and once they leave prison they change their behavior back to normal. It's about adaptation to their environment and has nothing to do with being "born" that way or it being a "natural" thing in any way. Even those "born" homosexual, research above shows that abnormalities and mutations cause this abnormal in humans and not how God "made" them that way.

All this goes with addition to what others said about being human fitra to not go towards that perversion as well as human being created above those animals with power of intellect and reasoning to show there's nothing 'natural' about this. We do not act on instincts like animals, not even we have some hormonal imbalance or genetic defect. Even then We fight the inclination to go down that path because Allah has given us the reasoning to know this not the normal way and also given us the command to stay away from it. Anyone who wants to go that way do so out of their own perversion and nothing else. So don't be fooled by the videos, ,they are just the cover of a the book, inside the book (research) shows why that is done and the reasoning behind it. Anyone can show you the cover of a book and make up a story to explain that cover, but it isn't till we ourselves look deep that we find the real story.

We live in the age of technology where such much information is at our fingertips. It's important learn and understand all this stuff that pertains to Islam and Muslims so when you come across such people, you are in a position to discuss such topics with them and not be all dumbfounded like your friends. The ones who lack knowledge are often the ones that get taken for a ride. That is how the missionaries get the ignorant Muslims to convert.
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Al Sultan
11-14-2016, 08:05 PM
Mashallah aaj,I'm not gonna lie I know my Muslim friends aren't that smart,they will get into fights with this ATHIEST,I actually asked them once why don't you talk back and protect your deen and he says he doesn't care,he just care that he's a Muslim and he knows Allah is real.Which is why I came here to ask and get advice from you guys,and really Mashallah thanks so much for helping me guys may Allah bless you all.
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Al Sultan
11-14-2016, 08:09 PM
Okay just to summarize this,

1-Homosexuality is not natural what so ever


2- We can't classify everything as "natural"

3-It's the hormones that are doing these things (I don't want to write it all but I get the message)


4-Allah didn't create homosexuality?

And that's about it,thanks,again,so much for helping me guys,may Allah bless you all (can't describe how awesome you guys are)
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crookedrib
11-15-2016, 04:57 AM
Atheists believe human beings are animals so obviously he'd compare us to them. Let him be an animal if he wants to.
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Al Sultan
11-15-2016, 12:50 PM
Originally Posted by crookedrib
Atheists believe human beings are animals so obviously he'd compare us to them. Let him be an animal if he wants to.
That's true,I find it so silly though,if you just know how he treats my Muslim and Christian friends..he trolls everyone,he talks a lot about Christianity and Islam and how these 2 religions are a "joke"
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InToTheRain
11-15-2016, 12:54 PM
It's not Natural but some people are inclined more towards certain sins than others so they may feel it'a natural.
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aaj
11-15-2016, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by Al Sultan
That's true,I find it so silly though,if you just know how he treats my Muslim and Christian friends..he trolls everyone,he talks a lot about Christianity and Islam and how these 2 religions are a "joke"
This is why one must know his deen so he can challenge such an ignorant and arrogant person and show him that rather his lack of belief is a joke. It is a joke to believe that everything came from nothing like magic, "poof" there it is! Tell him it isn't Disney land.
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Al Sultan
11-15-2016, 07:38 PM
Heh,will he even care? he's cancerous as heck.
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aaj
11-15-2016, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by Al Sultan
Heh,will he even care? he's cancerous as heck.
He may or may not care. Either he is a class clown trying to get some attention or he maybe start to think seriously if intellectually challenged enough. Usually those who act out are often bored but give them something worth thinking about and they will run with it. Tell next time bring some research back up what he says not just a video of animals gone wild. For instance, tell him to go look up 'homosexuality among animals' on wiki and you will find research more contradicting the notion of it being 'natural' than supporting it. And if he wants to you can sit down with him and show it to him. And you could highlight the points we mentioned previously to enforce your suggestion. This will make him either jump topic and play it off or something to ponder about and go really look it up. If someone continuously challenges him intellectually and logically then it will make him start to think seriously about it and who knows, maybe change his beliefs.


Originally Posted by Al Sultan
Okay just to summarize this,


4-Allah didn't create homosexuality?
It's not that Allah didn't create this. Everything that happens in the universe happens by the will and permission of Allah. So more that Allah didn't make us to be homosexual by nature, rather it is a deviation from the norm of how Allah created us.
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Al Sultan
11-15-2016, 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
He may or may not care. Either he is a class clown trying to get some attention or he maybe start to think seriously if intellectually challenged enough. Usually those who act out are often bored but give them something worth thinking about and they will run with it. Tell next time bring some research back up what he says not just a video of animals gone wild. For instance, tell him to go look up 'homosexuality among animals' on wiki and you will find research more contradicting the notion of it being 'natural' than supporting it. And if he wants to you can sit down with him and show it to him. And you could highlight the points we mentioned previously to enforce your suggestion. This will make him either jump topic and play it off or something to ponder about and go really look it up. If someone continuously challenges him intellectually and logically then it will make him start to think seriously about it and who knows, maybe change his beliefs.




It's not that Allah didn't create this. Everything that happens in the universe happens by the will and permission of Allah. So more that Allah didn't make us to be homosexual by nature, rather it is a deviation from the norm of how Allah created us.
As I said,I will revise the previous answers and hit it with this.I see,it's just basically to test us right ?
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crookedrib
11-15-2016, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by Al Sultan
That's true,I find it so silly though,if you just know how he treats my Muslim and Christian friends..he trolls everyone,he talks a lot about Christianity and Islam and how these 2 religions are a "joke"
Don't bother with these type of people, they just get a kick out of annoying others. They try to push their "logical" beliefs on believers. I mean you're arguing with someone who thinks we were created by accident. Like how illogical can you get?

I kind of understand why he sees Christianity as a joke though. They contradict their own books.
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keiv
11-15-2016, 10:44 PM
atheists try way too hard to push their beliefs down our throats... Talk about irony...
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aaj
11-16-2016, 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by Al Sultan
As I said,I will revise the previous answers and hit it with this.I see,it's just basically to test us right ?
we don't know his intentions, he could be just clowning around for attention or he could be half serious. If you go in with facts like that then you will find out if he is serious and will look into it more or if he will just play it down
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Al Sultan
11-16-2016, 02:22 PM
I just want to do my part... also no one seems to reply to my 3 questions just so I can get the picture of this issue,



1-Homosexuality is not natural what so ever


2- We can't classify everything as "natural"

3-It's the hormones that are doing these things (I don't want to write it all but I get the message)

wa assalamo alikum.
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aaj
11-16-2016, 04:13 PM
also no one seems to reply to my 3 questions just so I can get the picture of this issue
I thought those were your summative points, not questions . You need to put a ? at the end so we know :)

1-Homosexuality is not natural what so ever
It is not natural as it goes against the whole nature of the continual survival of any species. If everyone is gay, then how do they reproduce and have offspring? It's a sure way to die off and go extinct. It is a deviation from the norm caused by some factor or another (ex. hormonal imbalance, genetic mutation, social dominance and alliance).

2- We can't classify everything as "natural"
No, just because it exists in nature, doesn't mean it is necessarily "natural". Atheists are all about science and facts so they should know more than anyone that scientific research must be done before a conclusion can be reached, not just show a video of gay animals and conclude it to be natural.


3-It's the hormones that are doing these things (I don't want to write it all but I get the message)
1. Nature - Biologically : hormones, development of certain glands, genetic mutations
2. Nurture - Environmental : social dominance , conformity, allegiance, or deviation
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Al Sultan
11-16-2016, 07:57 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
I thought those were your summative points, not questions . You need to put a ? at the end so we know :)



It is not natural as it goes against the whole nature of the continual survival of any species. If everyone is gay, then how do they reproduce and have offspring? It's a sure way to die off and go extinct. It is a deviation from the norm caused by some factor or another (ex. hormonal imbalance, genetic mutation, social dominance and alliance).



No, just because it exists in nature, doesn't mean it is necessarily "natural". Atheists are all about science and facts so they should know more than anyone that scientific research must be done before a conclusion can be reached, not just show a video of gay animals and conclude it to be natural.




1. Nature - Biologically : hormones, development of certain glands, genetic mutations
2. Nurture - Environmental : social dominance , conformity, allegiance, or deviation
Ok Jazak Allah Khair brother thanks everyone for the help!! May Allah bless you all !! ❤️❤️❤️
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Snow
11-16-2016, 08:44 PM
If I was living my life like the minority of animals, I'd be locked up tight
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GodIsAll
11-17-2016, 06:12 AM
Alas, I must speak.
Homosexuality. I do not understand it. I cannot relate to it. HOWEVER: can we, as infallible humans, condemn punishment for this? I have no doubt there is scripture, hadiths, condemning this. But when do we allow God to be the supreme ruler of time, space, and dimension? Methinks fundamentalism, in any form, tries to assume His will..Dangerous. Let Him enforce His will. I believe in God.
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kritikvernunft
11-17-2016, 07:47 AM
Originally Posted by GodIsAll
Let Him enforce His will. I believe in God.
To an important extent, He uses us to do that. In my impression, our Beloved Master is a bit like that. I don't know exactly, because there are so many ways in which He is incomprehensible. And in the end, Allah knows best!
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Al Sultan
11-17-2016, 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by Snow
If I was living my life like the minority of animals, I'd be locked up tight
Best part is getting to know other "animals" [emoji23]
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aaj
11-17-2016, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by GodIsAll
Alas, I must speak.
Homosexuality. I do not understand it. I cannot relate to it. HOWEVER: can we, as infallible humans, condemn punishment for this?
Can we condemn homosexuality or condemn the punishment given for homosexuality?

Former is already done in Islam, latter is going against the will of God and against God.

I have no doubt there is scripture, hadiths, condemning this.
Yes, there is for condemning this act of immorality. Unless you mean the punishment given for this act, then I'd like to see you find one for us.

But when do we allow God to be the supreme ruler of time, space, and dimension?
Because He is ? Unless you have some different definition of what God is?

Methinks fundamentalism, in any form, tries to assume His will..Dangerous. Let Him enforce His will. I believe in God.
He does through the Islamic law/governance. We are His appointed trustees who carry out that law.
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Good brother
11-17-2016, 09:31 PM
Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way. “At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics. Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay. “Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.” Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.” Dr. Whitehead believes same-sex attraction (SSA) is caused by “non-shared factors,” things happening to one twin but not the other, or a personal response to an event by one of the twins and not the other. For example, one twin might have exposure to pornography or sexual abuse, but not the other. One twin may interpret and respond to their family or classroom environment differently than the other. “These individual and idiosyncratic responses to random events and to common environmental factors predominate,” he says. The first very large, reliable study of identical twins was conducted in Australia in 1991, followed by a large U.S. study about 1997. Then Australia and the U.S. conducted more twin studies in 2000, followed by several studies in Scandinavia, according to Dr. Whitehead. “Twin registers are the foundation of modern twin studies. They are now very large, and exist in many countries. A gigantic European twin register with a projected 600,000 members is being organized, but one of the largest in use is in Australia, with more than 25,000 twins on the books.” A significant twin study among adolescents shows an even weaker genetic correlation. In 2002 Bearman and Brueckner studied tens of thousands of adolescent students in the U.S. The same-sex attraction concordance between identical twins was only 7.7% for males and 5.3% for females—lower than the 11% and 14% in the Australian study by Bailey et al conducted in 2000. In the identical twin studies, Dr. Whitehead has been struck by how fluid and changeable sexual identity can be. “Neutral academic surveys show there is substantial change. About half of the homosexual/bisexual population (in a non-therapeutic environment) moves towards heterosexuality over a lifetime. About 3% of the present heterosexual population once firmly believed themselves to be homosexual or bisexual.” “Sexual orientation is not set in concrete,” he notes. Even more remarkable, most of the changes occur without counseling or therapy. “These changes are not therapeutically induced, but happen ‘naturally’ in life, some very quickly,” Dr. Whitehead observes. “Most changes in sexual orientation are towards exclusive heterosexuality.” Numbers of people who have changed towards exclusive heterosexuality are greater than current numbers of bisexuals and homosexuals combined. In other words, ex-gays outnumber actual gays. The fluidity is even more pronounced among adolescents, as Bearman and Brueckner’s study demonstrated. “They found that from 16 to 17-years-old, if a person had a romantic attraction to the same sex, almost all had switched one year later.” “The authors were pro-gay and they commented that the only stability was among the heterosexuals, who stayed the same year after year. Adolescents are a special case—generally changing their attractions from year to year.” Still, many misconceptions persist in the popular culture. Namely, that homosexuality is genetic – so hard-wired into one’s identity that it can’t be changed. “The academics who work in the field are not happy with the portrayals by the media on the subject,” Dr. Whitehead notes. “But they prefer to stick with their academic research and not get involved in the activist side.”
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whosebob
12-01-2016, 06:53 PM
You think Shaitans only victims are human. They attack animals as well. The difference is we are accountable not them. That's why there is homosexual acts in the animal kingdom.
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AbuAbdullaImran
12-01-2016, 09:11 PM
Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Just to add their have been cases of people being possessed by homosexual shaitaan leading them to homosexuality, although this does not mean all homosexuals are possessed and neither that all jinn and shaitaan are homosexual.
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shygirl1993
12-02-2016, 08:37 AM
Just thinking... If it was supposed to be normal, how did we get born?
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Al Sultan
12-02-2016, 09:24 AM
Exactly.
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Obaid_m
12-02-2016, 03:33 PM
Animals also rape each other, does mean we should let rapists be since it's in nature too?
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Al Sultan
12-02-2016, 04:38 PM
You know what brother that is just,I NEED to tell him this.
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fyi
12-03-2016, 11:10 PM
Just ask yourself why gays are not allowed to donate blood. Ask yourself why doctors do not allow it. :)
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crimsontide06
12-03-2016, 11:19 PM
Is it natural?
Are people born that way?
Can they help it?

These are all the wrong questions. The question should be

What does God say about it?

End of discussion...
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Al Sultan
12-04-2016, 07:55 AM
Originally Posted by fyi
Just ask yourself why gays are not allowed to donate blood. Ask yourself why doctors do not allow it. :)
What?? Really? No one told me that..that's the first time I've heard that...
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cinnamonrolls1
03-13-2018, 07:29 AM
We aren't "animals" in that sense though. Female hamsters who just give birth have to be seperated from their babies because if they smell something "unusual" on them ( eg human scent) they kill them. We don't do that.
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eesa the kiwi
03-13-2018, 08:09 AM
The praying mantis female rips the head off the male after mating and eats it

Is that natural too?

Just cause animals do something doesn't make it ok for us
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cinnamonrolls1
03-13-2018, 08:11 AM
Originally Posted by fyi
Just ask yourself why gays are not allowed to donate blood. Ask yourself why doctors do not allow it. :)
Is it not because of AIDS/HIV? That there's a higher chance or something?
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keiv
03-13-2018, 10:55 PM
If this atheist kid enjoys looking up videos of animals, "homosexual" ones at that, having sex, then there's bigger questions to be asked here.
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cinnamonrolls1
03-13-2018, 10:56 PM
Originally Posted by keiv
If this atheist kid enjoys looking up videos of animals, "homosexual" ones at that, having sex, then there's bigger questions to be asked here.
Yeah.. Give the animals some privacy, i mean c'mon.
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Mahir Adnan
03-14-2018, 03:06 PM
Within the last decade, genetic analysis of heritable traits has taken a huge step forward with the advent of DNA microarray technology. Using this technology, it is possible to scan large lengths of the human genome (even an entire genome wide scan—GWAS) for numerous individuals, at quite reasonable costs. This DNA microarray technology has led to the discovery of genes that are associated with complex diseases, such as Crohn's Disease. If homosexuality truly has a genetic component, DNA microarray studies would not only definitively prove the point, but would identify specific gene(s) or loci that might be associated with those who express a homosexual orientation. The first attempt to do genome wide scans on homosexual males was done by Mustanski et al. in 2005.42 The results suggested possible linkage near microsatellite D7S798 on chromosome 7q36. However, an attempt to repeat the finding (along with ~6000 well-defined SNPs spread comparatively evenly across the human genome) failed to find any significant SNPs.43 However, a third study using Chinese subjects found a weak association at the SHH rs9333613 polymorphism of 7q36.44 A more general study, examining mate choice among different populations, found no genetic link, prompting the investigators to speculate that such choices were "culturally driven."45 The largest genome wide scan was conducted by 23andMe. 7887 unrelated men and 5570 unrelated women of European ancestry were analyzed by GWAS. Although unpublished, the data was presented at the American Society of Human Genetics annual meeting in San Francisco, showing that there were no loci associated with sexual orientation, including Xq28 on the X chromosome.46 So, the preliminary studies on possible genetic causes of homosexual orientation tends to rule out any dramatic genetic component to sexual orientation.
reference :
Mustanski, B. S., Dupree, M. G., Nievergelt, C. M., Bocklandt, S., Schork, N. J. & Hamer, D. H. 2005. A genome-wide scan of male sexual orientation. Hum. Genet. 116, 272–278 (2005).
Ramagopalan, S. V., D. A. Dyment, L. Handunnetthi, G. P. Rice and G. C. Ebers. 2010. A genome-wide scan of male sexual orientation. J. Hum. Genet. 55: 131–132.
Wang, B., Zhou S., Hong F., Wang J., Liu X., Cai Y., Wang F., Feng T., and Ma, X. 2011. Association Analysis Between the Tag SNP for Sonic Hedgehog rs9333613 Polymorphism and Male Sexual Orientation J. Androl. 2011 Sep 22.
Laurent, R., B. Toupance, and R. Chaix. 2012. Non-random mate choice in humans: insights from a genome scan. Molecular Ecology 21:587–596.
E. M. Drabant, A. K. Kiefer, N. Eriksson, J. L. Mountain, U. Francke, J. Y. Tung, D. A. Hinds, C. B. Do 23andMe. 2012 Genome Wide Association Study of Sexual Orientation in a Large, Web-based Cohort. Abstract presented at the American Society of Human Genetics annual meeting in San Francisco.
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rafhelp
03-24-2018, 03:30 AM
The gift of free will means you can choose your sexuality. In the quran says "why do come onto men when there are women" ...along those lines....

so its a choice, choices are influenced by temptation from shaytaan.

But you see the whole thing of sex has been taken out of proportion by shaytaans influence. The purpose of sex is simply to reproduce anything else is perversion from the norm set by God. He created Man then Woman to keep him company and for him to take rest in ( a woman... he could have made another man. but he decided to make a woman..and Allah knows best) so if you want companionship and you are a man, seek it in a woman as that is how God designed it to be so.

But like i said it is your choice, you can choose to drink, cheat, gamble, lie you can also choose who you sleep with that is your choice and yours alone and you should accept the consequences of such actions, by consequences i mean those that will come from God, his judgement when you face him, not the anti-homo uncle who will beat homo up to try to make him straight. You see some in Islam would say some males who have weak faith, who dont pray, can become possessed by female jin, mischievous jin and yes you have to believe this as a muslim and the quran says it can be so, so sometimes it is something that can be helped by religion.

And no as humans we dont copy animal is they do things animals were not gifted with intelligence as we were, we have higher intelligence and we have instruction manual from God to tell us how to live our lives, animals dont. Some animals eat feaces, its best if humans dont copy this kind of behaviour
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azc
03-24-2018, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by Al Sultan
Assalamo Alkium brothers and sisters,


A few days ago,my muslim friends were challenged by an atheist,(the guy who seems to enjoy trolling Christians and Muslims in our high school) and he told them "If homosexuality is forbidden in Islam,then why did god make it natural?" at this point both of my friends were laughing,they thought he was just messing with them, annoying them in other words.And he actually proved this by showing a video,i cant say that I saw,but I was very confused at this moment,(I didn't join the discussion,i was just listening to them,and I did infact saw 2 giraffes doing homosexual acts,also the video changed and it was penguins) so there are homosexual animals out there,which apparently proves that homosexuality is natural.At this point both of my friends were quiet,he asking them why is it forbidden if god made it natural among animals? .. and there you got both of my muslim friends stunned by this mulhid (atheist) .

I did some research after this argument and apparently homosexuality is indeed natural (among animals aswell) .so the question to me...

If Allah forbid homosexuality among humans..then why is it natural?? and why does it exist among animals?? (I mean whats the point of animals having homosexual relationships?..) and obviously I'm having much wiswas over this..so I would like someone who understands this crystal clear and explain it..

Wa assalamo alikum wa rahmutillahi wa barakato.
:wa:

Homosexuality, incest etc are innate qualities of animals whether they live in jungle or in our society
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Misbah-Abd
03-24-2018, 12:05 PM
Homosexuality is not the fitrah of man. It would not be Divine Justice for Allah create someone a homosexual and then punish him on the Day of Judgement for it. This suggestion of it being natural comes from Iblis to make it acceptable in society. And Allah Knows Best.
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beleiver
03-24-2018, 05:32 PM
As humans its best to overcome our animal desires, its that God given ability to overcome those animal desires that seperate us from animals and make us human.
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OmAbdullah
03-24-2018, 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by Al Sultan
So,this is all from god right? homosexuality is natural? right? and he wants to test us to see if he we will follow what he forbid,basically yes?
Assalaamo alaykum

Homosexuality is not natural and it is not found in animals, not at all.

Allah has created some animals with both of the male and female reproductive organs. For e.g. see an earth worm. It has female organs at one place of its body and male organs at another place. So it will act both as male and a female organism. It is very easy for Allah to make an organism both male and female at the same time. But the purpose of sex is reproduction. Therefore, the union will always be between the female and male reproductive system.

There is no reproduction through homosexuality. therefore this act is absolutely against nature and thus is strictly forbidden.

Some animals that you saw acting homosexually, their secrete can be seen in the following true story.


Once this mischievous follower of Satan, the terrible man, destroyed the hypothalamus of a male cat. After that the poor cat couldn't differentiate between a male and a female cat. So it started chasing both of the male and female cats. Obviously, it was not a normal cat. Its mind was destroyed. The same must be the case of the other animals.


If you try to understand the Holy Quraan, you will see that Allah Ta'alaa graded the disbelievers to be worse than animals, why??? ....... The reason is that Allah Ta'alaa has given very great mind to human beings. When they reject Allah, the Creator, and deny the Accounting and Judgement in the Here-After, then they use that great mind for mischief and destruction. So they become worse and much more dangerous than the most wild animals. A wild animal doesn't have mind to make such killer weapons which can kill numerous people in a second. But a rebellious man can do that! So it is the rebellious man who, while following Satan, destroys the hypothalamus of animals to make them lose understanding and then being incapable to differentiate between male and female starts acting abnormally. This act of the animals is not normal. Those poor animals are attacked and made abnormal by the worse than animal human beings.
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