Prevent strategy failing to rein in rise of UK's far right

[muslim brother]

The government’s controversial counter-radicalisation strategy, Prevent, has failed to change the attitudes of those on the far right, the shadow home secretary has said in response to figures showing the number of referrals linked to neo-nazism is overtaking Islamic extremism cases in some parts of the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/21/prevent-strategy-failing-to-rein-in-rise-of-uks-far-right-says-diane-abbott

[noraina]

There has been a worrying rise in the far right and neo-Nazism, you only need to look at recent events in America to figure that out. Politics seem to be going backwards into the xenophobia, anti-immigration, anti-minority ideology they came out of just a few decades ago.

Both religious and secular fundamentalism....society isn't going in the right direction and for now the response to that has been equally weak.

[muslim brother]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0833skq

prevent ..again

adam deen gives "constructive criticism"

[muslim brother]

the middle ground..needs to become the louder voice

not "moderates" but those who wish to excel

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[Karl]

Well Europeans do tend to be prone to genocide from time to time even in foreign lands, let alone their own. Asian and African Muslims are best to stay away from Europe as in scriptures say that you should stay in Muslim lands not that of non Muslims. The two main reasons for this is that 1 you are surrounded by non believers that may influence and corrupt you and lead you away from the righteous path and 2 you may have trouble with hostility towards you e.g. could become enslaved or killed.
Look at it this way. What would Asians and Africans do if hordes of Europeans invaded THEIR lands?

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)

The government’s controversial counter-radicalisation strategy, Prevent, has failed to change the attitudes of those on the far right, the shadow home secretary has said in response to figures showing the number of referrals linked to neo-nazism is overtaking Islamic extremism cases in some parts of the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/21/prevent-strategy-failing-to-rein-in-rise-of-uks-far-right-says-diane-abbott

I'm actually not surprised. I have been seeing an extreme trend on the side of right-wing politics for a long time now, and they concern me frankly more than the Islamists. And the reason is because Muslim extremists, even when they're able to pull acts of terrorism like Paris Attacks (as tragic and horrible as they are) do not have either the manpower or the means to create the negative impact of destruction in parts of the globe as the right-wing does with their warmongering and voting in less intelligent policies and charismatic but less rational leaders without thinking of long-range consequences of doing so.

Also, despite the fact that the right-wing comprise of usually conservative pundits and often market themselves as "Christian" to appeal to their constituency, especially in America though I'm sure it's somewhat similar elsewhere, I'm not fooled by the label because they are entirely not Christ-like in the same way that Islamists are not people with ihsan (excellence) even though they market themselves as such by saying they're doing jihad (struggle) against invasion and aggression.

Since Daesh has been exposed as a self-serving network of people who are not on prophetic methodology, U.K. and other countries have now an open avenue and will have an extremely easy time of curtailing and reining in extremism within Muslim communities.

However, ever see in horror movies right when the back is turned of the protagonist, the person is taken unaware by the evil spirit standing at the turned back? While they've been exercising vigilance with respect to extremism in the Muslim communities, they've been taken unaware by the evil spirit right at their heels and at their backs. And they are the right-wingers who I do not just in jest compare to an evil spirit; right-wingers for a long time have been festering with anger and resentment at being marginalized by the left; and I already feel in my gut that they're going to be the downfall of us all in the globe.

I'm not trying to sound whistles as an alarmist. I'm saying this because I actually truly believe we're heading towards our own destruction. For example, I've had actually some time to think about why I was writing so much on the topic of Donald Trump on IB back even in 2015 when political pundits in the mainstream media saying that he'll never win the primary; and that's because I saw something in the phenomena of Trump that I couldn't exactly put my finger on but even as far back knew that he'd actually touched a nerve in the public and festering wound and felt threatened.

In that same way, every instinct in me is clamoring that right-wing politics right now is toxic to/for the world, and we're seeing the rise of them now in every part of the globe; seriously, I'm concerned about the real possibility of cooler heads failing to prevail in the time when we might need it the most at a certain point, which is when there's a looming threat of entering war in any region of the globe, as even one less rational leader's imbecilic decision can see other countries falling like dominoes into warfare due to allegiances/alliances/treaties/pacts; and as we all should know, Third World War is going to be fought on different sides with atomic powers, and therefore the ensuing destruction will be the beginning of the end of most of us.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

[muslim brother]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7476906.html

some balance

[muslim brother]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...st-hill-victim

Man shouted 'I am going to kill a Muslim', says wife of Forest Hill victim


Kulsuma Ali’s husband, Muhammed-Askar Ali, in a serious condition after being stabbed at Forest Hill station in London

[Cherub786]

Look, you have to devote more resources to protecting and securing Mosques. This kind of far-right, Nazi extremism is only going to grow and grow and we Muslims are their first target.

[Born_Believer]

I once read or heard someone describe Europe as a "xenophobic continent". The far right once again being on the rise should not come as a surprise to anyone. These are the same people who waged crusades for centuries, why should it change now?

[Karl]

I once read or heard someone describe Europe as a "xenophobic continent". The far right once again being on the rise should not come as a surprise to anyone. These are the same people who waged crusades for centuries, why should it change now?

True and this radical liberal multi cultural social experiment is doomed to failure. Because multi culture is no culture. The English (Anglo Saxons and other northern barbarian tribes) fearing the lose of their culture and mana will go a little extreme. The same happened in Iran and Afghanistan and Somalia etc. People need their boundaries and their ways.
I think this has been planned to happen, so the Zionists can turn Europe into totalitarian States. Create havoc to tighten the screws.

[Cherub786]

True and this radical liberal multi cultural social experiment is doomed to failure. Because multi culture is no culture. The English (Anglo Saxons and other northern barbarian tribes) fearing the lose of their culture and mana will go a little extreme. The same happened in Iran and Afghanistan and Somalia etc. People need their boundaries and their ways.
I think this has been planned to happen, so the Zionists can turn Europe into totalitarian States. Create havoc to tighten the screws.

Whatever the merits of your argument against “radical liberal multiculturalism”, the fact remains that it is precisely that “radical liberal multiculturalism” that creates the atmosphere most suitable for us Muslims in a host country.

We Muslims will find it difficult to thrive in societies dominated by populist far-right politics.

We have to look after our own interests first before we express any concern for the preservation of some ancient Anglo-Saxon civilization.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

The government’s controversial counter-radicalisation strategy, Prevent, has failed to change the attitudes of those on the far right, the shadow home secretary has said in response to figures showing the number of referrals linked to neo-nazism is overtaking Islamic extremism cases in some parts of the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/21/prevent-strategy-failing-to-rein-in-rise-of-uks-far-right-says-diane-abbott

Prevents job was never to stop 'radicalisation' whatever that means, its about criminalising Islam.

https://www.islamicboard.com/world-affairs/134324139-syria-gaza-criminalisation-islam.html

We shouldnt expect anything else.

[Born_Believer]

True and this radical liberal multi cultural social experiment is doomed to failure. Because multi culture is no culture. The English (Anglo Saxons and other northern barbarian tribes) fearing the lose of their culture and mana will go a little extreme. The same happened in Iran and Afghanistan and Somalia etc. People need their boundaries and their ways.
I think this has been planned to happen, so the Zionists can turn Europe into totalitarian States. Create havoc to tighten the screws.

I don't agree with that but as for the rest, europe and western ideologies in general have always been totalitarian, although they claim to be the opposite. There was a bit of a social and intellectual renaissance in europe in the middle part of the last century but we've gone back to square one. The far right, which was on the ropes for 50 years is coming back to being dominant...as it has been for almost a 1000 years.

[Karl]

Whatever the merits of your argument against “radical liberal multiculturalism”, the fact remains that it is precisely that “radical liberal multiculturalism” that creates the atmosphere most suitable for us Muslims in a host country.

We Muslims will find it difficult to thrive in societies dominated by populist far-right politics.

We have to look after our own interests first before we express any concern for the preservation of some ancient Anglo-Saxon civilization.

Well that is where you are wrong, because you must conform to these radical liberal values and convert to the "modern" British secular values system. You must adopt feminism, homosexuality, stifling oppression and Big Brother always watching you, waiting to call you an "Islamist" if you step out of line.

[Cherub786]

Well that is where you are wrong, because you must conform to these radical liberal values and convert to the "modern" British secular values system. You must adopt feminism, homosexuality, stifling oppression and Big Brother always watching you, waiting to call you an "Islamist" if you step out of line.

Respectfully, I disagree.
Firstly, the danger of Big Brother is posed by the authoritarian, Fascist-leaning, Far-Right politics which is currently in ascendance.
I believe that in the West, it is the libertarian tendency which is most favorable toward the interests of the Muslim community here. Libertarianism, in principle, is all about protecting civil liberties, including people’s freedom to practice their religion without any interference from the State.
Far-Right politics, however, tends to be extremely nationalistic, xenophobic, and unfavorable to the practice of Islam in the West. A Far-Right government would definitely pass legislation that would intrude on Muslims’ right to practice their religion. We could start seeing legislation that bans Islamic practices like veiling, building mosques, circumcision, Halal food, and private Islamic schools. That would be a disaster for the Muslim community.

As for the secular “values” that promote tolerance of homosexuality and the like, that is obviously something we disagree with. But no liberal or secular government is about to institute an inquisition of Muslims on the issue of our acceptance or rejection of homosexuality or feminism.
So we got to get our priorities right. We live in societies where most people are favorable toward homosexuality and feminism. As long as nothing is being forcefully imposed on us, we just have to accept that fact. The real danger is to the freedom to practice our religion, which is being jeopardized by the right of the populist and nationalist Far-Right.

[Karl]

I don't agree with that but as for the rest, europe and western ideologies in general have always been totalitarian, although they claim to be the opposite. There was a bit of a social and intellectual renaissance in europe in the middle part of the last century but we've gone back to square one. The far right, which was on the ropes for 50 years is coming back to being dominant...as it has been for almost a 1000 years.

Well I don't see it that way. The West is extremely leftist these days. The far right are a tiny minority. With technology and over population the world is prone to become socialist. Unless there is a devastating war. We will just have to see how it plays out. The boring living death of socialism or a nuclear war, and as this is the world where Satan has fallen the suffering is anyone's guess.

[Karl]

Respectfully, I disagree.
Firstly, the danger of Big Brother is posed by the authoritarian, Fascist-leaning, Far-Right politics which is currently in ascendance.
I believe that in the West, it is the libertarian tendency which is most favorable toward the interests of the Muslim community here. Libertarianism, in principle, is all about protecting civil liberties, including people’s freedom to practice their religion without any interference from the State.
Far-Right politics, however, tends to be extremely nationalistic, xenophobic, and unfavorable to the practice of Islam in the West. A Far-Right government would definitely pass legislation that would intrude on Muslims’ right to practice their religion. We could start seeing legislation that bans Islamic practices like veiling, building mosques, circumcision, Halal food, and private Islamic schools. That would be a disaster for the Muslim community.

As for the secular “values” that promote tolerance of homosexuality and the like, that is obviously something we disagree with. But no liberal or secular government is about to institute an inquisition of Muslims on the issue of our acceptance or rejection of homosexuality or feminism.
So we got to get our priorities right. We live in societies where most people are favorable toward homosexuality and feminism. As long as nothing is being forcefully imposed on us, we just have to accept that fact. The real danger is to the freedom to practice our religion, which is being jeopardized by the right of the populist and nationalist Far-Right.

The Libertarians ARE far right. Far right is small government to protect your rights and property. Far left is massive government and no private property and the government rules your life entirely.
So if a Muslim is a far right nationalist born and living in Arabia trying to keep out invading infidels, is that a bad thing?

[Cherub786]

The Libertarians ARE far right. Far right is small government to protect your rights and property. Far left is massive government and no private property and the government rules your life entirely.
So if a Muslim is a far right nationalist born and living in Arabia trying to keep out invading infidels, is that a bad thing?

My friend you are simply unaware of politics and the differences between political ideologies.

Libertarianism is not the same thing as Far-Right populism. There are crucial differences:

Libertarians are favorable towards free trade and immigration.
Far-Right nationalists oppose free trade and immigration.

Libertarians want freedom of religion and protection of people’s civil rights and liberties.
Far-Right nationalists want to restrict the civil liberties of Muslims to practice our religion.

Now I believe you are from the U.K., where libertarianism, for historical reasons, is very weak and not that well established in the political mainstream.

But here in America, libertarianism is stronger, and represented by people like Ron Paul (now his son Rand Paul), Gary Johnson, and others.

U.K. has less guarantee of people’s civil liberties, for example, the recent legislation proposed to expand surveillance. Libertarianism, however, is all about protecting privacy rights and limiting the role and power of government. In the U.K. and much of Europe, government is too big and the State has too much power, which usually results in less individual rights and liberties for the individual.

Muslims in Europe have not been exposed to libertarian ideas, coupled with the fact that they often come from Muslim countries where authoritarianism is so rampant. Therefore, they never consider the benefits of libertarianism and are oblivious to it. But anyone with an acute political mind knows that libertarianism is the most favorable politics as far as the Muslim community’s interests are concerned.

Now your second question is quite bizarre. We are not living in Arabia nor are infidels “invading” Arabia, so that is a completely hypothetical scenario. I am saying that libertarianism is beneficial to Muslims living in the West, that is not a universal approval of it, it is a restricted approval in a certain context, i.e., Muslim living in the West where we are a vulnerable minority who have separate interests from the rest of society.

[Born_Believer]

Well I don't see it that way. The West is extremely leftist these days. The far right are a tiny minority. With technology and over population the world is prone to become socialist. Unless there is a devastating war. We will just have to see how it plays out. The boring living death of socialism or a nuclear war, and as this is the world where Satan has fallen the suffering is anyone's guess.

Of the last 36 years, Britain has had a right wing government for 21 of those years.

Right wing governments have been more popular, or at the very least voted in more often than leftist governments. I don't see how that is disputed. Of course the distinction may be made between what is right and far right but are their policies any different? Anti-immigration, anti-Islam, anti black and asian, anti-poor, anti-welfare and so on and so forth. The execution may be different but I often feel far right parties play into the hands of the "general" right (lets call it that for now) because people think, "Oh well, I wana vote for such things as anti-immigration and anti-welfare but I don't want to seem extreme". These votes are more likely to go to a party like the Conservatives than say, UKIP or BNP.

I could type a lot more about this but I'm a bit tired right now.

[Zafran]

My friend you are simply unaware of politics and the differences between political ideologies.

Libertarianism is not the same thing as Far-Right populism. There are crucial differences:

Libertarians are favorable towards free trade and immigration.
Far-Right nationalists oppose free trade and immigration.

Libertarians want freedom of religion and protection of people’s civil rights and liberties.
Far-Right nationalists want to restrict the civil liberties of Muslims to practice our religion.

Now I believe you are from the U.K., where libertarianism, for historical reasons, is very weak and not that well established in the political mainstream.

But here in America, libertarianism is stronger, and represented by people like Ron Paul (now his son Rand Paul), Gary Johnson, and others.

U.K. has less guarantee of people’s civil liberties, for example, the recent legislation proposed to expand surveillance. Libertarianism, however, is all about protecting privacy rights and limiting the role and power of government. In the U.K. and much of Europe, government is too big and the State has too much power, which usually results in less individual rights and liberties for the individual.

Muslims in Europe have not been exposed to libertarian ideas, coupled with the fact that they often come from Muslim countries where authoritarianism is so rampant. Therefore, they never consider the benefits of libertarianism and are oblivious to it. But anyone with an acute political mind knows that libertarianism is the most favorable politics as far as the Muslim community’s interests are concerned.

Now your second question is quite bizarre. We are not living in Arabia nor are infidels “invading” Arabia, so that is a completely hypothetical scenario. I am saying that libertarianism is beneficial to Muslims living in the West, that is not a universal approval of it, it is a restricted approval in a certain context, i.e., Muslim living in the West where we are a vulnerable minority who have separate interests from the rest of society.

The last time I checked the US had that largest military in world, have a police force that can shoot you and a prison that you can end up in without a trial (Guantanamo) and your saying the UK government is too big?

Last time I checked the UK was the land that produced Locke and mill - So i'm sure plenty of Muslims in the UK and Europe are aware of liberal ideas.

Libertarian? so your ok with Homosexuality, smoking weed and anti welfare state?

[Cherub786]

?? The last time I checked the US had that largest military in world, have a police force that can shoot you and a prison that you can end up in without a trial (Guantanamo)
and your saying the UK government is too big?

Libertarians are not in power in either America or Europe. The point I’m making is that Libertarianism is stronger in America than in the U.K or Europe. More people support it here. The Republican Party has a vibrant “libertarian wing”, and young people, such as myself, were especially inspired by Dr. Ron Paul back in 2008 when he ran for President.
Compare that to the state of Libertarianism in the U.K.
Constitutionally, America is more libertarian than the U.K. The U.K has nothing like a Bill of Rights (U.S) or the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (Canada).
Consider the 2^nd Amendment for example, the right to bear arms. In the U.K gun rights are a disaster and are not protected constitutionally. I’m sure you know that according to Islamic teachings and Islamic culture owning a sword (and now the modern day firearms) is considered a birth right. Arabs and Afghans have always cherished their freedom to own firearms and teach their children from a young age how to use them. But this culture is completely alien in Europe where the government treats you like a helpless baby and you have very few civil freedoms and autonomy.

Last time I checked the UK was the land that produced Locke and mill - So i;m sure plenty of Muslim are aware of liberal ideas.
Libertarian? so your ok with Homosexuality, smoking weed and anti welfare state?

The classical liberal ideas may have originated with British thinkers like Locke, but historically they were experimented with and implemented in America. Thomas Jefferson was deeply influenced by Locke and was a liberal at heart. He was the one who put liberal ideas into the American constitution.
On the other hand, the U.K went in the direction of Hobbes and never truly embraced the spirit of classical liberalism. That is why the U.K is currently expanding surveillance without even blinking an eye. For them it’s a natural thing for the government to be Big Brother.

Libertarianism has nothing to do with homosexuality or smoking weed. Libertarianism is simply the idea that there should be less government and people have more freedom, especially economic freedom, political freedom to dissent, and civil liberties, especially to practice their religion.

As for the welfare state, I am totally against the idea of the welfare state as a matter of principle.