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kiran29
11-25-2016, 01:10 PM
Assalamualaikum.wr.wb,

Any trustworthy and up to date information links regarding this wildfire that I can access? Many thanks.

Kiran29
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talibilm
11-25-2016, 01:58 PM
:sl: wrwb

I did hear from a Brother that he saw in facebook that Israel banned adhan in all masjids and they will be fined about 2000 us $ if they defy the ban. and the next day wild fire started through out Israel. Allah knows it could also be possible its a torment of Allah if it happened as what its said. Though its said Israel denies this saying it was just a forest fire which is strange and we never heard that happened in Israel ever before.
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kiran29
11-25-2016, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by talibilm
:sl: wrwb

I did hear from a Brother that he saw in facebook that Israel banned adhan in all masjids and they will be fined about 2000 us $ if they defy the ban. and the next day wild fire started through out Israel. Allah knows it could also be possible its a torment of Allah if it happened as what its said. Though its said Israel denies this saying it was just a forest fire which is strange and we never heard that happened in Israel ever before.
Dear Bro Talibilm, I heard about the banning of athan too [emoji36], and after that the wildfire began. I heard that they say it was because natural cause. And not long after that, they said it was Arsonist doing. Guess what, they will accuse the Arab. Meh. Fitna, like always [emoji36]
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AHMED PATEL
11-25-2016, 03:03 PM
Four Palestinian firefighting teams will join the effort to combat the fires.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-fire-palestine-help-combat-wildfires-after-terrorism-claims-a7438501.html
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sister herb
11-25-2016, 03:28 PM
^^ Let me guess; they are forces under the command of M.Abbas. He is always keen to wagging his tail when it comes to his zionist friends.
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AHMED PATEL
11-25-2016, 03:42 PM
regardless of politics and personal emotions

it is our duty as humans and muslims to save people from fires,both in this world and the hereafter

in a burning world,the best thing to do is to calm any situation

most of those in israel now are not responsible for what happened over 50 years ago and the ongoing situation,

http://www.solutionsnotsides.co.uk/
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anatolian
11-25-2016, 04:00 PM
Yes we better pray for the innocent lives in Israel. These kind of disasters are the tests from Allah for everyone. Maybe their test was to see the punishment of Allah. But our test is to care and help.
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Scimitar
11-25-2016, 04:03 PM
My sig :D hehe

Scimi
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piXie
11-25-2016, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by AHMED PATEL
it is our duty as humans and muslims to save people from fires,both in this world and the hereafter
:sl:

It is not our duty to save the enemies of Allaah from the fire and neither can we do that when they cause this upon themselves because of their transgressions.
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ardianto
11-25-2016, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by piXie
:sl:

It is not our duty to save the enemies of Allaah from the fire and neither can we do that when they cause this upon themselves because of their transgressions.
:wa:

What would you feel if your house was on fire, and your non-Muslim neighbors refused to help you just because you are Muslim?.
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Scimitar
11-25-2016, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by piXie
:sl:

It is not our duty to save the enemies of Allaah from the fire and neither can we do that when they cause this upon themselves because of their transgressions.
You're kinda dense aren't you?

By your logic (or lack thereof) Muslims cannot become FireFighters/Fire Men.

Well... there goes the neighbourhood... sheesh.

Scimi
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sister herb
11-25-2016, 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by piXie
:sl:

It is not our duty to save the enemies of Allaah from the fire and neither can we do that when they cause this upon themselves because of their transgressions.
Have we right to decide whose are enemies of Allah when only Allah knows what people have in their hearts?
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piXie
11-25-2016, 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
:wa:

What would you feel if your house was on fire, and your non-Muslim neighbors refused to help you just because you are Muslim?.
^o)

My brother, what would you feel if your house you had no house at all because your non Muslim neighbour refused to help you bombed it on purpose just because you are Muslim?

Originally Posted by Scimitar
You're kinda dense aren't you?
Youre kinda out of context aren't you?

By your logic (or lack thereof) Muslims cannot become FireFighters/Fire Men
I didn't say Muslims can't be firefighters. What I'm saying is, how can they become firefighters for the State who are firing at them and the deen of Allaah?
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anatolian
11-25-2016, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by piXie
What I'm saying is, how can they become firefighters for the State who are firing at them and the deen of Allaah?
So, what is the crime of those trees burning in this fire? ^o)
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sister herb
11-25-2016, 07:51 PM
We all know the crimes of zionists have done against Palestinians and other people but isn´t it off topic. We are talking about wildfire and it´s victims. Should we rejoice when also innocents may suffer in this fire?
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Scimitar
11-25-2016, 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by piXie
^o)

Youre kinda out of context aren't you?
Nope.

Seems you're struggling to justify your position. Context? missing - that's why.


Originally Posted by piXie
I didn't say Muslims can't be firefighters. What I'm saying is, how can they become firefighters for the State who are firing at them and the deen of Allaah?
And the wildlife which inhabit those trees? and forest? and the plantlife? and the innocent second and third generations cousins in faith, the Jews?

We do not fight fire with fire.

Same way we do not fight hate with hate.

We fight hate with love - but we don't go adopting the hippy ideals of it, no... we become practical beings, such as those Muslim firefighters who are risking life and limb for a people who are not their own.

That, my sister, is the best form of Dawah. Action.

Scimi
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Mustafa16
11-25-2016, 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Nope.

Seems you're struggling to justify your position. Context? missing - that's why.




And the wildlife which inhabit those trees? and forest? and the plantlife? and the innocent second and third generations cousins in faith, the Jews?

We do not fight fire with fire.

Same way we do not fight hate with hate.

We fight hate with love - but we don't go adopting the hippy ideals of it, no... we become practical beings, such as those Muslim firefighters who are risking life and limb for a people who are not their own.

That, my sister, is the best form of Dawah. Action.

Scimi
you can't negotiate with the oppressors.....this fire is likely a punishment from Allah for the haughtiness of the Jews (which was predicted to take place in the end times), and with the current climate change situation and that clown Trump's refusal to admit it exists, expect more fires.....there will, within a few decades, be no Israel left, and all of the jews will have either fled or been burned....think about it, how many times has Allah aza wa jal punished an entire city or civilization collectively for the crimes of the people? that includes innocents....
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Scimitar
11-26-2016, 12:20 AM
With age, comes compassion, young paduan

not to mention that when Allah destroys a civilisation, khalaas... so again, you are completely wrong.

Scimi
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kiran29
11-26-2016, 07:52 AM
Originally Posted by sister herb
We all know the crimes of zionists have done against Palestinians and other people but isn´t it off topic. We are talking about wildfire and it´s victims. Should we rejoice when also innocents may suffer in this fire?
Yes sister, very true. this thread talks about wildfire, a big one, that burned trees and animals, made many smokes and ashes, and it could harms people also, mentally, physically, and economically.

All is Allah's Will, and human should act, and be judged accordingly, by Allah and Allah alone. I think it's not wise not to help because Islam is rahmatan lil Alamin, a mercy for the whole universe. And in this situation, helping each other is a good thing to do.
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kiran29
11-26-2016, 07:56 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Nope.

Seems you're struggling to justify your position. Context? missing - that's why.




And the wildlife which inhabit those trees? and forest? and the plantlife? and the innocent second and third generations cousins in faith, the Jews?

We do not fight fire with fire.

Same way we do not fight hate with hate.

We fight hate with love - but we don't go adopting the hippy ideals of it, no... we become practical beings, such as those Muslim firefighters who are risking life and limb for a people who are not their own.

That, my sister, is the best form of Dawah. Action.

Scimi
I agree. Thanks brother to put it simply. Islam is rahmatan lil Alamin...
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Serinity
11-26-2016, 10:35 AM
:salam:

When transgressors go rampant, etc. and the good-doers and pious do not do anything about it. The Punishment of Allah won't just be afflicted upon the transgressors, but also upon those who did not forbid their wrongdoings, etc.

Remember about a town / city of transgressors, which was to be destroyed by the command of Allah, and the Angels AS came back saying that pious man was there, praying, or something. Allah commanded the Angels to start the destruction with that pious man? Why?

Because he did not forbid evil or spread Islam.

Any scholar can correct me if I am wrong, but I feel, that as Muslims, it is our duty, as a respond to this, to become better, and invite people to Islam, and the transgressors too.

Fire on fire, will collapse into a bigger fire. I am not saying to be hippy and lovely, and complete pacifists, etc. But to act according to Islam, Quran, the Sunnah.. 100%

Yes, there are enemies of Islam, however, Afaik, not every non muslim is an enemy of Islam or Allah.

While I hate Isrealitess dirty actions, and detest them for their actions, I do not find it justifiable to project that unto their off-spring, cuz, afaik, in Islam, sins are not passed down to their off-spring.

They are obviously corrupt souls decieved by shaytaan and their egos to ban the Adhaan. Audhu billah.
Allahu alam.
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Mustafa16
11-26-2016, 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
:salam:

When transgressors go rampant, etc. and the good-doers and pious do not do anything about it. The Punishment of Allah won't just be afflicted upon the transgressors, but also upon those who did not forbid their wrongdoings, etc.

Remember about a town / city of transgressors, which was to be destroyed by the command of Allah, and the Angels AS came back saying that pious man was there, praying, or something. Allah commanded the Angels to start the destruction with that pious man? Why?

Because he did not forbid evil or spread Islam.

Any scholar can correct me if I am wrong, but I feel, that as Muslims, it is our duty, as a respond to this, to become better, and invite people to Islam, and the transgressors too.

Fire on fire, will collapse into a bigger fire. I am not saying to be hippy and lovely, and complete pacifists, etc. But to act according to Islam, Quran, the Sunnah.. 100%

Yes, there are enemies of Islam, however, Afaik, not every non muslim is an enemy of Islam or Allah.

While I hate Isrealitess dirty actions, and detest them for their actions, I do not find it justifiable to project that unto their off-spring, cuz, afaik, in Islam, sins are not passed down to their off-spring.

They are obviously corrupt souls decieved by shaytaan and their egos to ban the Adhaan. Audhu billah.
Allahu alam.
turns out, it wasn't the wrath of Allah...it was al Qaeda.....read about it here...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7439271.html
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Scimitar
11-26-2016, 02:52 PM
Exactly, when Allah destroys a people, KHALAAS - aint no saving them.

With this wildfire, this was not natural causes but, maliciously manifested.

People need to stop the high horse stuff, fast.

Scimi
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piXie
11-26-2016, 06:09 PM
:sl:

SubhanAllaah, I can't believe some of the comments here. There is a much bigger Dhulm happening in the ummah at the hands of these enemies of Allaah. They are a terrorist state and they r constantly bombing the ummah left right and centre and still continue to do so. Have they stopped committing crimes and aggressions against Islam and the people of Tawheed that we feel it is our duty to help them? No. Have our minds become so sick and colonised that we still feel it a duty to help such a criminal State? Look at the position of the ummah - what position have they left us in? What Muslim duty do we have to put out their fire when there have been fires burning all over Muslim lands caused by these devils, and we haven't even done our duty to put out those fires first. Those fires are still burning and for months and we are worried about protecting the trees and wildlife in Israel? Who's fires are more deserving to be put out - the oppressors or those who have been oppressed? We are so concerned about the innocents in Israel, what about the innocents in the Muslim lands? How can we even talk about trees and wildlife when the ummah is screaming for help and no one has come to their aid. Has Israel stopped attacking the Muslims and Mosques that we should help them? No. Are they even remorseful for their actions that we should help them? No. They want to destroy the call of Allah, and now Allah has inflicted them with a museebah, they are being inflicted with a small taste of their own medicine, and we feel it is our duty to help them and save them? What is wrong with us, wallaahi what is wrong with us that we feel it a duty to help those who are trying to destroy the ummah. They are at war with us and once this fire is out they will continue in their war because Israel has no intentions of stopping their heinous crimes.

Islam is a mercy to mankind but understand the situation and position we are in today. If a murderer breaks into our home do we start giving them dawah and say Islam is rahmatulil alameen, what kind of misguidance and misapplication of Islam is this. La Hawla wa la quwwata illa billah.
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anatolian
11-26-2016, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by piXie
:sl:

SubhanAllaah, I can't believe some of the comments here. There is a much bigger Dhulm happening in the ummah at the hands of these enemies of Allaah. They are a terrorist state and they r constantly bombing the ummah left right and centre and still continue to do so. Have they stopped committing crimes and aggressions against Islam and the people of Tawheed that we feel it is our duty to help them? No. Have our minds become so sick and colonised that we still feel it a duty to help such a criminal State? Look at the position of the ummah - what position have they left us in? What Muslim duty do we have to put out their fire when there have been fires burning all over Muslim lands caused by these devils, and we haven't even done our duty to put out those fires first. Those fires are still burning and for months and we are worried about protecting the trees and wildlife in Israel? Who's fires are more deserving to be put out - the oppressors or those who have been oppressed? We are so concerned about the innocents in Israel, what about the innocents in the Muslim lands? How can we even talk about trees and wildlife when the ummah is screaming for help and no one has come to their aid. Has Israel stopped attacking the Muslims and Mosques that we should help them? No. Are they even remorseful for their actions that we should help them? No. They want to destroy the call of Allah, and now Allah has inflicted them with a museebah, they are being inflicted with a small taste of their own medicine, and we feel it is our duty to help them and save them? What is wrong with us, wallaahi what is wrong with us that we feel it a duty to help those who are trying to destroy the ummah. They are at war with us and once this fire is out they will continue in their war because Israel has no intentions of stopping their heinous crimes.

Islam is a mercy to mankind but understand the situation and position we are in today. If a murderer breaks into our home do we start giving them dawah and say Islam is rahmatulil alameen, what kind of misguidance and misapplication of Islam is this. La Hawla wa la quwwata illa billah.
Sis. Firstly there are Muslims living in Israel as well. Secondly, trees and animals are also damaged by this fire. Even if you dont care the liives of Jews you must care those ones. Other than this I must tell you not to let you anger towards a nation blind your eyes. There are still innocent people within Jews of Israel who cannot be blamed with the crimes of the State. A Muslim better be more merciful in such circumstances since it is better to forgive the criminal mistakenly than punishing the innocent..
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Scimitar
11-26-2016, 06:42 PM
Pixie, you're more of a terrorist than they are, judging by your opinion.

Scimi
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islamirama
11-26-2016, 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Sis. Firstly there are Muslims living in Israel as well. Secondly, trees and animals are also damaged by this fire. Even if you dont care the liives of Jews you must care those ones. Other than this I must tell you not to let you anger towards a nation blind your eyes. There are still innocent people within Jews of Israel who cannot be blamed with the crimes of the State. A Muslim better be more merciful in such circumstances since it is better to forgive the criminal mistakenly than punishing the innocent..
Look at the majority, not the minority. Over all as a nation they have committed a holocaust of the Palestinians in the 60 year occupation of that land. How many have their bombed, murdered in cold blood? how many biological and chemical bombs have they thrown on our brothers and sisters. Jailing thousands of kids in jail for years, burning muslims by the mobs, kicking muslims out and taking over their houses, raping muslim women and then blackmailing them to cooperate with those rape pictures, how much more do they need to suffer?

When Allah's punishment comes it comes on all of them and not just the evil ones. Maybe it is you who is blind and need to open your eyes, Allahs' wrath and anger descends upon those who wage war against His believers. Are you talking about mercy when Muslims should be invading that terrorist state and putting an end to them?





Originally Posted by Scimitar
Pixie, you're more of a terrorist than they are, judging by your opinion.

Scimi
If speaking out against the terrorists makes you one then so be it. We will see who is the terrorist in Allah's court.
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sister herb
11-26-2016, 07:16 PM
I don´t see why we should mix together bombing of ummah and wildfire. They are two separate matters and haven´t any links together. About this wildfire in (1948) occupied Palestine; how rejoicing about it would help Palestinians or any other people whose are targets of the zionist aggression? Could we (even at once) try to talk one matter at once, not mix all separate things together.

I see this kind of discussion is quite similar like those in the past where some members have claimed it is justified to make attacks against civilians "because they (their governments) too kill civilians elsewhere".
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Scimitar
11-26-2016, 07:22 PM
Great post sister herb!

members here (won't name names) are making a wildfire into a terrorist incident lol.

It's the inability to determine any truth from this event which makes ignorant people sponsor ignorant claims.

Scimi
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anatolian
11-26-2016, 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
When Allah's punishment comes it comes on all of them and not just the evil ones. Maybe it is you who is blind and need to open your eyes, Allahs' wrath and anger descends upon those who wage war against His believers. Are you talking about mercy when Muslims should be invading that terrorist state and putting an end to them?
Yes I do although Israel is continously persecuting Muslims in Palestine. A Muslim is supposed to be just in all circumstances. We must have a clear mind to seperate different things and consider them justly. Someone must end Israel's crimes is a different thing, someone must help "people in Israel" in a fire is completely a different thing. You can't be sure of neither this fire was a punishment from Allah to them nor all the ones who are burning are the bad guys. Our duty as Muslims is to help people who are in need. That's it. You will be judged with this. If Allah intended to punish some people over there with this fire, make sure that even if all mankind help them no one can save the ones whom Allah wanted to punish.
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piXie
11-27-2016, 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Our duty as Muslims is to help people who are in need.
:salamext:

Brother, I agree that as Muslims it is our duty to help people who are in need but we need to understand that there is more need that the Muslim ummah be helped. The Muslim ummah is more in need and more deserving of our help. If we truly felt part of the body of the ummah the way we should be feeling and we understood our position and situation today, our minds would be so worried, that we wouldn't even be making comments and statements like it is our Muslim duty to help Israel, especially when they already have plenty of help from their allies. I understand there may be innocents in Israel and we don't like for any innocents to suffer, but we need to understand that that's not our fault - what position has this State left us in to help them when they won't stop attacking us. Israel is responsible for their own people. Innocents are being massacred and suffering all over Muslim lands at the hands of these devils and we are barely trying to handle our own dire situation and extinguish the fires in the Muslim lands. We haven't done our duty to help the oppressed in the ummah, and we are speaking about our duty to help the oppressor - this is what is appalling. We speak about justice, but where is the justice for this ummah? We speak about mercy, where is the mercy for those being oppressed in this ummah? We speak about compassion, where is the compassion for this ummah? Where is the help for the ummah? Have we become so dis-attached from the Muslim body and have our minds become so colonised that we cannot understand this?

Originally Posted by Scimitar
Pixie, you're more of a terrorist than they are, judging by your opinion.
Really Scimitar, sometimes your comments are more ridiculous than Donald Trump's are :hmm:
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anatolian
11-27-2016, 02:51 PM
Yes it is our weakness that we don't do anything when Israel is persesuting Palestinains but we expect the justice from a fire. This is pure weakness.
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talibilm
11-27-2016, 03:26 PM
:sl:

After Prophet :saws: forgave and freed the war prisoners of Taif even with his own funds who did not even to their strict habbit of honouring guests but chased Prophet away from their city with pelting stones, it did change their heart towards Islam .So lets give a last try here inshallah but do not have high hopes and do it for Allah's sake . You will, be greater in the sight of Allah.
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anatolian
11-27-2016, 05:11 PM
History continously proves that we still need an Islamic power like the Rashidun Khaliphate or Ottoman Empire today. If we go on to be weak we will go on to be oppresed
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piXie
11-27-2016, 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Yes it is our weakness that we don't do anything when Israel is persesuting Palestinains but we expect the justice from a fire. This is pure weakness.
:sl:

Brother, we don't expect justice from a fire. This fire is just a taste. Only Allahs fire will do the oppressors justice. But if this fire is keeping them and their energies busy for a while so they cannot focus their energies on committing more crimes against the Muslims, it would be pure foolishness for us to help them put this fire out.

P.s. Your signature is a good reminder.

@ brother talibilm - if you are trying to change Israels heart, you are greatly mistaken to say the least. They will never decrease in their enmity towards the Muslim ummah - and this is clear in many Hadith too.

They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the signs if you understand.[Quran 3:118]
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azc
11-27-2016, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
:wa:What would you feel if your house was on fire, and your non-Muslim neighbors refused to help you just because you are Muslim?.
valid point
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Serinity
11-27-2016, 06:00 PM
If keeping the fire on, keeps them busy, then I'd be happy to have the fire on for as long as they exist.

Cuz if putting out the fire means them going back to their ways of killing Muslims, then the fire should be on.

Allahu alam.
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piXie
11-27-2016, 06:03 PM
This is exactly what is happening in Aleppo, infact the non Muslims r throwing bombs on them instead of helping them, and the Muslim members here are speaking about their duty to help put out the fire in Israel? What sickness has inflicted our minds and hearts that we have started sympathising more with the terrorists.

Originally Posted by ardianto
:wa:

What would you feel if your house was on fire, and your non-Muslim neighbors refused to help you just because you are Muslim?.
Reply

Serinity
11-27-2016, 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by piXie
:sl:

Brother, we don't expect justice from a fire. This fire is just a taste. Only Allahs fire will do the oppressors justice. But if this fire is keeping them and their energies busy for a while so they cannot focus their energies on committing more crimes against the Muslims, it would be pure foolishness for us to help them put this fire out.

P.s. Your signature is a good reminder.

@ brother talibilm - if you are trying to change Israels heart, you are greatly mistaken to say the least. They will never decrease in their enmity towards the Muslim ummah - and this is clear in many Hadith too.

And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say; “Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance”. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper (2:120)
However, this does not mean we should not act in justice. Just because they hate is, doesn't mean we have to hate them back. Just respond with justice. Right?

We follow Islam, completely. If they dislike that, their problem. However, our enmity towards them, or their enmity towards us, should not make us sway from Justice.

If we respond with hatred just because they hate us, will that really solve anything? I'd rather respond with Justice, as per. Quran etc.

Succumbing to this hate game will just hurt us more.

Allahu alam.
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islamirama
11-27-2016, 06:15 PM
we got whipped Muslims in the ummah who bleed for the enemies and murderers of Muslims but feel nothing for the Muslims. I never see them speak out against the atrocities of the kuffars or in defensive of the oppressed, not even make a dua and yet they lecture others about being just in Islam.

May Allah throw a 1,000 fires on the israhell and destroy all those kuffars engaging in oppressing, murdering and raping Muslims. Ameen!

The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter (5:33)



And Allah does not like the Mufsidun (mischief-makers) (5:64)
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piXie
11-27-2016, 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
However, this does not mean we should not act in justice. Just because they hate is, doesn't mean we have to hate them back. Just respond with justice. Right?

We follow Islam, completely. If they dislike that, their problem. However, our enmity towards them, or their enmity towards us, should not make us sway from Justice.

If we respond with hatred just because they hate us, will that really solve anything? I'd rather respond with Justice, as per. Quran etc.

Succumbing to this hate game will just hurt us more.

Allahu alam.
:sl:

My brother, you are correct, but what does it mean to do justice to those who oppress and attack the deen of Allaah? What does Allah say about those who fight the Muslims and occupy their lands? It seems that we are confused what justice means. Does justice mean that we throw water on those who throw fire on us? Is that what it means to respond with justice?
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Scimitar
11-27-2016, 06:23 PM
"Then he became one of those who believed and recommended one another to perseverance and patience, and (also) recommended one another to pity and compassion. They are those on the Right Hand (i.e. the dwellers of Paradise)."Al-Qur'an 90:17-18
And acting according to His Messenger's saying:

Allah is only merciful with those who show mercy to others. - Sahih Al-Bukhari

And:

Be merciful to those on the earth, so the One above the heavens will be merciful to you. -Tabarani and Al-Hakim with a sahih (authentic) chain

And being guided by his saying:

He who does not show mercy to others, will not be shown mercy. - Sahih Al-Bukhari

And:

Mercy is only removed from the miserable. - Abu Dawud and At-Tirmidhi

Food for thought.

Scimi
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islamirama
11-27-2016, 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Food for thought.

Scimi
Any one can slap a few verses and hadith here and there to make their point as if they are right. Are you going to use Allah's words to support those whom Allah and His Messenger hate? Do you really want to go there?

I think you should reflect more on this hadtih you posted:

Mercy is only removed from the miserable. - Abu Dawud and At-Tirmidhi

“Verily, He likes not the Thalimun (oppressors, polytheists, and wrongdoers).” (Al-Quraan 42:40)
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Serinity
11-27-2016, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by piXie
:sl:

My brother, you are correct, but what does it mean to do justice to those who oppress and attack the deen of Allaah? What does Allah say about those who fight the Muslims and occupy their lands? It seems that we are confused what justice means. Does justice mean that we throw water on those who throw fire on us? Is that what it means to respond with justice?
Wa alaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Is justice burning their children, because they burn our children? Rather, Justice, afaik, is to stop the oppressor. So if someone blew up our house, and killed our men and women, we go after the oppressor, and whoever aided him in that.

I am not knowledgable enough to give a full answer, but we should respond with justice, and afaik, killing and murdering non combatants, is not Justice. They kill our women, does that mean we should kill their's? No.

We go after the oppressor. How? Idk. But when we are attacked, we have our full right to retaliate on the oppressors. However, we should not cause havoc (i.e. kill their children, etc.)

I am not saying to be complete pacifists. Retaliate with justice, without transgressing.

No good law prohibits just retaliation.

I can not give a full answer, however, I know that what they are doing, is wrong. I can not answer in full.

too many variables.
Allahu alam.
Reply

Scimitar
11-27-2016, 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
I think you should reflect more on this hadtih you posted:

“Verily, He likes not the Thalimun (oppressors, polytheists, and wrongdoers).” (Al-Quraan 42:40)
that plays both ways dude... that's the part you're not seeing because of your linear reading of the ayah. Sheesh.

Helping your fellow man is duty. Those innocents caught in the crossfires of war are not guilty by association simply because they were born somewhere, ok?

Second, third and even fourth generation returnees had no choice where they were born. Some don't even care for the conflict. And we Muslims know better than to judge an entire people due to the actions of a political circus.

You should be the one who reflects on this verse I feel. Inaction is one of the worst evils, to do nothing when something can be done is to sit by and watch it happen like it's amusement. Call it Kevin Carter syndrome. Whatever, you, like... doesn't change the fact that inaction is evil.

Scimi
Reply

islamirama
11-27-2016, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
that plays both ways dude... that's the part you're not seeing because of your linear reading of the ayah. Sheesh.

Scimi
so you are saying we are the thalimun for not running to save our enemies and our killers from a fire?

smh...
Reply

Scimitar
11-27-2016, 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
so you are saying we are the thalimun for not running to save our enemies and our killers from a fire?

smh...
I'm saying, define who are the wrongdoers when you do not know them personally. You don't know what is in their hearts, Allah does.

The Ayah mentions Allah doesn't like the wrongdoers... Not how you should feel about them. In fact, there are hadeeth and ayah which I "cherry picked" to show you how humans should interact with each other.

Polytheists are wrongdoers, so go fight hindus if you're so fanatical lol contexts considered, I had no idea the Children of Israel were now also Polytheists.

You've never met the Children of Israel, in person, I gather.

Your argument hinges on a thread of weakly invested emotion, and so far I've yet to see you make a valid point.

Nothing sticks, like teflon :D

Scimi
Reply

anatolian
11-27-2016, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by piXie
:sl:
But if this fire is keeping them and their energies busy for a while..
Alaikum Salam

Sister, this is what we try to tell you. This fire is not just something keeping their energy busy but it is something killing innocent people, animals and trees living there. Our concern is on these entities, not the criminals and the State of Israel. If there is even only one innocent over there, we should help again. This is the real Islamic attitude. This world is a test world as you already mentioned. Our test is to take the Islamic attitudes to action. On the day of Judgement Allah will ask us why we didnot help these people just like He will ask why we didnot help palestinians.
Reply

Scimitar
11-27-2016, 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
so you are saying we are the thalimun for not running to save our enemies and our killers from a fire?

smh...
So a three year old Israeli girl lost in a burning forest should just burn,

got it.

:facepalm:

Scimi
Reply

islamirama
11-27-2016, 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
I'm saying, define who are the wrongdoers when you do not know them personally. You don't know what is in their hearts, Allah does.

The Ayah mentions Allah doesn't like the wrongdoers... Not how you should feel about them. In fact, there are hadeeth and ayah which I "cherry picked" to show you how humans should interact with each other.

Polytheists are wrongdoers, so go fight hindus if you're so fanatical lol contexts considered, I had no idea the Children of Israel were now also Polytheists.

You've never met the Children of Israel, in person, I gather.

Your argument hinges on a thread of weakly invested emotion, and so far I've yet to see you make a valid point.

Nothing sticks, like teflon :D

Scimi
The israeli are occupying palestine for the past 60 years, they have murdered raped and tortured thousands in that time. They are at war with Muslims, the are the open enemies of Islam and Muslims. I don't need emotions, those facts alone are enough for me. I have no sympathy for them, any harm to them helps the Muslims and therefore I will be pleased with any harm caused upon them and will pray Allah bring a 1000 fires like this one or any other harm on them. you are welcome to sing the tunes of sleeping with the enemy all you want, we know where you stand and where I stand. and Allah is the witness to all.
Reply

keiv
11-27-2016, 08:05 PM
Something to ponder over:

http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel...-fire-evacuees

Activists in the Bedouin village of Umm Hiran in the Negev were among those who said their homes were open to welcome those in need of temporary shelter, perhaps surprising some familiar with its current situation. The village is scheduled to be demolished to make way for a new Jewish town following a lengthy, unsuccessful legal battle with the government.
Something to shed a little light on the whole "let the oppressors burn" conversation going on.
Reply

piXie
11-27-2016, 10:06 PM
If the Israeli people are so innocent, why don't they give the stolen land back to the Palestinians who they stole it from? Why don't say anything to their government? They are sitting on occupied and stolen land.

Originally Posted by anatolian
Alaikum Salam

Sister, this is what we try to tell you. This fire is not just something keeping their energy busy but it is something killing innocent people, animals and trees living there. Our concern is on these entities, not the criminals and the State of Israel. If there is even only one innocent over there, we should help again. This is the real Islamic attitude. This world is a test world as you already mentioned. Our test is to take the Islamic attitudes to action. On the day of Judgement Allah will ask us why we didnot help these people just like He will ask why we didnot help palestinians.
:w:

Brother, unfortunately there are innocents being killed all over the world, but our minds are so concerned about what is happening to any innocents and wildlife and trees in Israel that we cannot seem to see beyond that right now. We are a shame and humiliation to the people of Palestine and to the Muslim ummah.
Reply

cooterhein
11-27-2016, 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by Mustafa16
you can't negotiate with the oppressors.....this fire is likely a punishment from Allah for the haughtiness of the Jews
A fair bit of it is believed to be arson. Not all of it of course, but some of these fires were initially seen as being suspicious and just yesterday some of it was ruled arson by investigators. 23 people have been detained on suspicion of arson and the investigation is ongoing.

there will, within a few decades, be no Israel left, and all of the jews will have either fled or been burned....
That's not going to happen. If arson does wind up becoming a large problem, the problem will be rectified. But first, let's see exactly what happened and who may have done it. If it was arson, what sort of person do you think would have done it? Nothing has been confirmed yet and I haven't seen any suggestions, nor do I offer any of my own, but if you have anything you'd like to add please go right ahead.
Reply

ardianto
11-27-2016, 11:16 PM
When Palestinians in Gaza were being attacked by Israel I donated my money to buy medicines to help Palestinians. I did that because is my duty to help my Muslim brothers. Now Israel is on fire, and I don't do anything to help Israelis. But I do not condemn Palestinians who decide to help their Israeli neighbors.

If you are not willing to help Israelis, it's okay. But you don't need to condemn Palestinians who try to help their Israeli neighbors.

And one thing that I should remind. Not every Jew, even in Israel, hate Muslims.
Reply

piXie
11-27-2016, 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
If you are not willing to help Israelis, it's okay. But you don't need to condemn Palestinians who try to help their Israeli neighbors.
Their Israeli neighbours? A neighbour is not someone who occupies your land and oppresses you, what's wrong with us and our thinking?
Reply

islamirama
11-28-2016, 02:21 AM
Israelis Ban Adhan, Burnt by Fire

Zionist Jews arrogantly banned the Adhan (The Islamic call to prayer) and now, Subahanallah, their entire so called 'Israel' is in flames, such is the wrath of Allah ﷻ , the Zionists are screaming in fear and terror seeing their homes and streets burn.

" And fear the Fire, which has been prepared for the disbelievers. " (Qur’an 3:13)

video
https://www.facebook.com/84813204857...0486848005016/
https://www.facebook.com/10000462691...12124965618394



Reply

Scimitar
11-28-2016, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
The israeli are occupying palestine for the past 60 years, they have murdered raped and tortured thousands in that time. They are at war with Muslims, the are the open enemies of Islam and Muslims. I don't need emotions, those facts alone are enough for me. I have no sympathy for them, any harm to them helps the Muslims and therefore I will be pleased with any harm caused upon them and will pray Allah bring a 1000 fires like this one or any other harm on them. you are welcome to sing the tunes of sleeping with the enemy all you want, we know where you stand and where I stand. and Allah is the witness to all.
You're clearly emotional.

Facts? you wouldn't know a fact if it was presented to in the form of a census report.

You have a cold heart, clear as day to see here - you don't have to spell it out for us. We know. Devoid of any humanity.

Abdullah ibn Umar reported: He heard the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, raising his head from the last bowing in dawn prayer and saying:

اللَّهُمَّ الْعَنْ فُلَانًا وَفُلَانًا وَفُلَانًا
O Allah, curse so-and-so and so-and-so.

Thereafter Allah revealed the verse:
لَيْسَ لَكَ مِنَ الْأَمْرِ شَيْءٌ أَوْ يَتُوبَ عَلَيْهِمْ أَوْ يُعَذِّبَهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ ظَالِمُونَ
You do not have any decision in the matter whether He will forgive them or punish them. Verily, they are oppressors. (3:128)
Source: Sahih Bukhari 4283, Grade: Sahih


After this incident, the Prophet would not curse people by name and he encouraged us not to indulge in curses.

Anas ibn Malik reported:

لَمْ يَكُنْ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ سَبَّابًا وَلَا فَحَّاشًا وَلَا لَعَّانًا كَانَ يَقُولُ لِأَحَدِنَا عِنْدَ الْمَعْتِبَةِ مَا لَهُ تَرِبَ جَبِينُهُ

The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, would not abuse others, he would not use obscene words, and he would not curse others. If he wanted to admonish anyone of us, he used to say: What is wrong with him? His forehead be dusted!

Source: Sahih Bukhari 5684, Grade: Sahih


Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said:

لَا يَنْبَغِي لِصِدِّيقٍ أَنْ يَكُونَ لَعَّانًا

It is not befitting the truthful that they curse others.

Source: Sahih Muslim 2597, Grade: Sahih


On one occasion, the Prophet refused to curse the idolaters who were persecuting the Muslims at the time.
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, was told, “O Messenger of Allah, pray against the idolaters!” So the Prophet said:

إِنِّي لَمْ أُبْعَثْ لَعَّانًا وَإِنَّمَا بُعِثْتُ رَحْمَةً
Verily, I was not sent to invoke curses, but rather I was only sent as a mercy.

Source: Sahih Muslim 2599, Grade: Sahih



So yeah, you carry on cursing the Israeli's with your foul heart - but do not dare to claim you follow the sunnah anymore.

----

Both, you and Pixie are not reflective of Islamic values. And that is clear for us all to see.

I advise speaking to your imam and taking your issues to him, then listening to his advice. I'm certain you will think twice before letting your anger do the talking again.

God bless,

Scimi
Reply

islamirama
11-29-2016, 12:08 AM
Originally Posted by Scimitar

You have a cold heart, clear as day to see here - you don't have to spell it out for us. We know. Devoid of any humanity.
Devoid of any humanity huh? I'll hold you to that on Judgement day and your love for the enemies of Islam.

Yes, I have a very very cold heart for the enemies of Islam, the butchers of Muslims. may Allah destroy them all.

“The strongest handhold of eemaan is to love for Allaah’s sake and to hate for Allaah’s sake.” [Ahmad, 4/286, authentic]

The great scholar, Shaykh ‘Abdul-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (d.1420, may Allaah have Mercy on him) was asked about love and hatred for the sake of Allaah, and he replied:

Loving for Allaah is when you love (someone) for Allaah’s sake, the Blessed and Exalted, because you believe him to be a person of taqwaa (mindfulness of Allaah’s orders) and eemaan (upright beliefs, statements, and actions). Because of these things you love such a person for the sake of Allaah.

You also hate for the sake of Allaah when you see a disobedient disbeliever. You hate such a person for the sake of Allaah.

You also hate a disobedient person, even if he is a Muslim, based on the degree of his disobedience.

This is how a believer is – He allows his heart to react to both types of people, loving some of them for the sake of Allaah. He loves the people of eemaan and taqwaa for the sake of Allaah, while he hates the people of disbelief, evil, and disobedience for Allaah’s sake, allowing his heart to interact with both kinds.

http://www.bakkah.net/en/shaykh-ibn-...-of-allaah.htm


Abdullah ibn Umar reported: He heard the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, raising his head from the last bowing in dawn prayer and saying:

اللَّهُمَّ الْعَنْ فُلَانًا وَفُلَانًا وَفُلَانًا
O Allah, curse so-and-so and so-and-so.


Thereafter Allah revealed the verse:لَيْسَ لَكَ مِنَ الْأَمْرِ شَيْءٌ أَوْ يَتُوبَ عَلَيْهِمْ أَوْ يُعَذِّبَهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ ظَالِمُونَ
You do not have any decision in the matter whether He will forgive them or punish them. Verily, they are oppressors. (3:128)
Source: Sahih Bukhari 4283, Grade: Sahih

After this incident, the Prophet would not curse people by name and he encouraged us not to indulge in curses.
Anyone can cherry pick to make their point, like i said before, more you open your mouth , more you expose yourself. Try to educate yourself before you go on a self-righteous rampage

Cursing happens in two ways:

Cursing the kuffaar and sin in general terms, such as saying “May Allaah curse the Jews and Christians,” or “May Allaah curse the kaafirs, evildoers and wrongdoers,” or “May Allaah curse the wine-drinker and thief.” This kind of curse is permissible and there is nothing wrong with it.

Ibn Muflih said in al-Adaab al-Shar’iyyah, 1/203: “It is permissible to curse the kuffaar in general.”

The second is where the curse is applied to a specific person, whether he is a kaafir or an evildoer, such as saying, “May Allaah curse So and so,” mentioning him by name.

This may fall into one of two categories:

1 – Where there is a text which states that he is cursed, such as Iblees, or where there is a text which states that he died as a kaafir, such as Pharaoh, Abu Lahab and Abu Jahl. Cursing such persons is permitted.

2 – Cursing a particular kaafir or evildoer concerning whom there is no text stating that they are cursed – such as wine-drinkers, those who offer sacrifices to anything other than Allaah, the one who curses his parents, those who introduce innovations in religion, and so on.

“The scholars differed as to whether it is permissible to curse these people, and there are three points of view:

(i) That it is not permissible under any circumstances
(ii) That it is permissible in the case of a kaafir but not of a (Muslim) evildoer
(iii) That it is permissible in all cases.”

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said in al-Qawl al-Mufeed, 1/226.

The difference between cursing a specific person and cursing those who commit sin in general is that the former (cursing a specific person) is not allowed, and the latter (cursing the people who commit sin in general) is allowed. So if you see an innovator, you do not say, ‘May Allaah curse you,’ rather say, ‘May the curse of Allaah be upon those who introduce innovations,’ in general terms. The evidence for that is the fact that when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed some people among the mushrikeen and followers of jaahiliyyah and said: “O Allaah, curse So and so, and So and so, and So and so,” he was told not to do that when Allaah said (interpretation of the meaning): “Not for you (O Muhammad, but for Allaah) is the decision; whether He turns in mercy to (pardons) them or punishes them; verily, they are the Zaalimoon (polytheists, disobedients and wrongdoers)” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:128]


Did you get all that or should i break it down and dumbify it for you kid?

So yeah, you carry on cursing the Israeli's with your foul heart - but do not dare to claim you follow the sunnah anymore.
Allah know's what is in my heart, so don't try to claim you do as well little boy.

And if you want to talk about foul things, let's talk about that foul mouth of yours that lacks the sunnah and islamic values of properly addressing others. Here's how Allah feelsl about people like you:

Those that are foul-mouthed :Allah does not like that the evil should be uttered in public except by him who has been wronged. And Allah is Ever All-Hearer, All-Knower. (4:148)

Source: 30 People Allah Hates
http://www.authentictauheed.com/2011...kh-faisal.html



Reply

piXie
11-29-2016, 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Inaction is one of the worst evils, to do nothing when something can be done is to sit by and watch it happen like it's amusement.
:sl:

Inaction?

Brother Scimitar, I think we need to calm down to be honest and stop worrying so much about Israel. Israel already has plenty of help from the world - not only to put out their fires but also to start many fires in Muslim lands. Many countries have rushed to Israels aid and helping them. I don't understand why we even needed to say we have a Muslim duty to help Israel. Do we even realise the implications of obligating something? I am sure we wouldn't have made this statement or atleast not be worrying about things like the trees in Israel if we were aware of the critical plight and suffering of our own Muslim brothers and sisters in cities such as Aleppo - Who is helping Aleppo and the rest of the Muslim ummah? The believers have far more HAQ over us that we help them - but if we don't already feel the ghairah for the Muslim ummah, or are unaware of the situation of the Muslim ummah - then it is understandable why we would be consumed with the plight of the enemy and be worrying about them - to the extent that we will even accuse and argue with other Muslims over our concern and sympathy for them - and we will accuse them (the believers) of being worse terrorists and devoid of Islamic values and compassion and humanity - as if these matters only apply to the enemy. And while the world sends jets to put out the fires in Israel, we continue to debate over being compassionate to our enemies and our duty to help them, not realising that our own brothers and sisters continue to burn and starve in sieges while the only jets being sent to them are not of water but of bombs.

We expect the Muslim ummah to forgive every transgression and be merciful to the enemy and we say this is the best form of dawah, yet when we ourselves feel wronged in our daily life or even by a small comment by another member (let alone our land being stolen and children bombed which is incomparable) we resort to insulting them back. We deal more harshly with the Muslims than we do with the disbelievers, yet this is the opposite of how the prophet :saws1: was.

If this is what our mentality has become - and we have become confused about our obligations and priorities - and we obligate it a duty upon the Muslims to help their enemy while our own brothers and sisters are more in need and deserving of our help - and we have one rule for how we should behave and another rule for how the ummah should behave - then it is no wonder we are in the state we find ourselves in today.

Allah is not going to ask us what we did to help Israel. He is going to ask us what we did to help Islam & the ummah of rasool Allaah :saws1:

May Allah forgive us and bring back our ghairah. We all are in need of rectification and forgiveness. Aameen.

:wasalamex
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