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12-23-2016, 06:13 AM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)


Originally Posted by hassan124
Assalamoalakom I have a friend who I am trying to help gain a better understanding of islam he sent me this video and wanted me to answer these questions, I was wonderimg if anyone on here could help me out [link to video removed]
Question 1: If a victim of an Islamic terrorist attack studies the Muslim sources and sees a connection between the attack and the commands of Islam, would he be a bigot for becoming concerned about the spread of Islam?

(Answer 1:)) Just like Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists and atheists and agnostics, Muslims are also human beings. And all human beings are vulnerable to their dark side and in danger of giving into human emotions like hatred, anger, envy, jealousy, enmity. The individual who therefore instead elevates his soul among humankind for the sake of God above his baser nature is a king among humankind, the ultimate winner in a battle of good vs. evil because first this is an inner battle. And only when an individual loses this inner battle do we see the baser nature of humankind take forms like terrorist attacks. Allah (God) has asked us to know one another and learn from one another with the words "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted" (Qur'an 49:13). And what is righteousness, you may ask. Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Righteousness (birr) is good character.”

And what is good or noble character? Good character is in the thoughts you choose to give power in your mind and the thoughts you choose to not give power, the intentions you choose to have in your heart and the intentions you choose not to have in your heart, the words you choose to speak and the words you choose to not speak, and finally the actions you choose to do and the actions you make the choice from which to refrain yourself. Good character is about elected how others around you not harmed by your thoughts, words, and actions. Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm.” Any human being who chooses to harm will be judged in the hereafter even if the person is not judged here in the court of law; but there always consequences to evil intentions and evil actions.

So, an Islamic terrorist attack that occurred has victims. And if said victim has survived with the grace of Divine Being, then he/she is in a unique position to make the choice about what the character that he/she wants to adopt and how he/she wants to live out his/her days as a human being. If the said victim studied Muslim sources and sees a connection between the attack and commands of Islam, then he/she should seek first and foremost clarification from Muslim or scholars of the religion of Islam to see if what he/she thinks of the connection is true or not and whether his/her conclusions on this matter are correct or incorrect.

Also, Islam is not a monolithic structure as Muslims are a dynamic, individualistic, unstructured, factional, diverse group and not any cohesive, monolithic homogeneous body. The followers of Islam are not exclusive to any race, ethnicity, country, or creed and do not lend themselves as an entire population to making a case for Islamic terrorist attacks because Islamic terrorist attacks are done by a tiny and insignificant minority of the entire population. Therefore, rather than becoming concerned about the spread of Islam, a person should instead become concerned about the spread of terrorism.

Question 2: What is the difference, practically speaking, between: (1) a religion that commands its adherents to violently subjugate unbelievers and (2) a religion that only sounds like it commands its adherents to violently subjugate unbelievers?

(Answer 2:))
My answer lays in the question that I'll now ask.

If a person says, “ahhhh,” what is the person saying?

Can you guess what any person is saying when they say “ahhhh”? Take some guesses.

This is an evocative sound—that is to say—it evokes emotions.

However, I want to you to examine three scenarios and see what it actually means within their proper and respective contexts.
Scenario #1: “Ahhhh! I’ll kill you! Susie screamed, “You dweeb! Give me back my note! Give it back or I’ll tell Mom.” Eric knew Susie meant business.
Scenario #2: “Ahhhh,” Susie was heard moaning.
“Hey, didn’t I tell you to stop yesterday. Binge drinking ain’t for you—you get me?”
“Shut up, Jamal! My head is pounding.”
Scenario #3: “Ahhhh. Oooh. Oh. Oooh. Ahhhh. Oh God. Now. Now,” panted Susie.
35 minutes later—“Look at this Jason. Five toes. Five fingers. Isn’t that the most beautiful thing you’ve ever seen?”

This is what the sound can mean in different, and that is why “context” is so important to interpreting anything, especially religious texts. Without the context of the sound placement, an individual can’t even figure out what a simple sound is signaling: a scream, a moan, a pant, or even something else. If this is true of such a small utterance such as “ahhhh”—imagine how greater the need for such context is when a person quotes from any text or studies a religion.

Therefore, to understand the practical difference, a person has to understand and study “context” because a subjective interpretation of a text does not mean that its objective interpretation is the same when context is studied also.

Question 3: What do you propose to do about the growing population of Muslims who misunderstand Islam and conclude their highest religious duty is to slaughter unbelievers and hypocrites?

(Answer 3:)) First, this question without proof assumes and makes an assertion that there is a “growing population of Muslims who misunderstand Islam and conclude their highest religious duty is to slaughter unbelievers and hypocrites.” However, even if a person takes the proposition at face value, the person after researching history of all major world religions and its adherents in different time periods has to conclude that there will always be adherents of any religion who misunderstand the texts, a matter which cannot be prevented. However, what can and should be prevented is violence and evil-doing. Violence and evil-doing is not the character of a Muslim who is sincere to Allah (God) because a sincere believer is concerned first with elevating his character for Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “I have been sent to perfect noble character.” However, for those who misunderstand Islam and conclude erroneously that violence and evil-doing is the answer to perceived harm, then all people (Muslims and non-Muslims) have to educate the misguided people that violence and evil-doing can never be the answer. Someone long ago said, "Knowledge is power." And indeed, "knowledge is power" because knowledge can be used to guide the ignorant about their ignorance. Once an ignorant person is educated about his/her ignorance, then that ignorance can be replaced with proper knowledge. And so, entire Muslim communities must ensure that ignorance is not spread and that Muslims are taught once again to elevate their character by reminding them that the purpose which Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) came to guide humanity is to perfect the character of a human being.

The person who perfects good character can change the entire world, because though he may start with his own self, his goodness of character is in a position to influence his family, which if his family is influenced is then in a prime position to influence other families, and which if entire families are influenced then the immediate community is in a position to be influenced, and if the immediate community is influenced then the surrounding communities are in a position to be influenced, and if surrounding communities influenced is in a position to influence entire towns, and if entire towns are influenced is in a position to influence the cities, and if cities are influenced then states are in a position to be influenced, and the influenced states are in a position to influence other states, and if other states are influenced then the nation can be influenced, and the influenced nation is then in a position to influence other nations, and then all influenced nations are in a position to change the world. And if the world is changed, then we're all better as human beings for the positive changes through the result of that goodness of character. It is like a pebble in the sand; it is hard to see what a pebble can accomplish; but that very same pebble when thrown in a pond creates ripples. And this ripple-effect is what we're as Muslims told to embody through aiming to "perfect noble character." That is what we moderate Muslims propose to do, and though this is one small step for us, it is one giant leap on behalf of all humanity in defeating any misguided Muslims' violent ideologies.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
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greenhill
12-23-2016, 12:21 PM
…I don't know… and I see this as different way of questioning the same misunderstanding "Kill the infidels…"

So, in my opinion, if questions 2) and 3) were the real mission, muslims will never have lived in peace with any other religion from the times of the prophet. Especially now with about a fifth of the world being muslims. I doubt there will be very many people left from all the killings and revenge killings.

Besides, what about "there is no compulsion in religion"? That alone speaks volumes …

So, in my opinion, if he cannot let the misconception go, then he really is not interested to know the truth but just trying to find flaws..



:peace:
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hassan124
12-27-2016, 09:42 PM
Thanks you so much for the reply, this is how he replied to it: In response to the first 3 paragraphs: Honestly, you’re describing Christianity and early Islam more so than Islam today. In regards to displaying good character, according to the Quran, Muhammad was the best example for how Muslims should behave. (Quran 33:21: “Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.”) So, according to this, if we want to see the ideal way Muslims should act, we should look to Muhammad. How did Muhammad behave? Well, he married Aisha when she was 6 ...(Sahih al-Bukhari 3896, 5158, Sahih Muslim 3310, 3311, Sunan Abu Dawud 2116), he had more wives than Islam allows, meaning he could twist his own revelations for his benefit (Quran 4:3; 33:50), ..., his theology changed as time went on when Jews and Christians didn’t accept him as a prophet (Quran 109; 22:39-40, 2:217; 9:73, 9:111, 9:123, Sahih al-Bukhari 6924, Sahih Muslim 30, 4366), etc. Based on all this, even if he did do good things, what about Muhammad deserves emulating? Wouldn’t Jesus be a far superior example of righteousness? Also, why would Muslims want to emulate Muhammad if he was unsure of his own salvation (Quran 46:9)?
Rest of answer 1: Of course there are many different kinds of Muslims. If you take a look at the northern ‘Stans (Kazakhstan, etc.), they’re mostly Muslim but you never hear about terrorist activity there. The problem is that the type of Muslim Muhammad was isn’t exactly peaceful, and this is the most “beautiful pattern of conduct” for Muslims. Besides, the next 200 or so years after the founding of Islam involved conquest.. yet it’s a religion of peace.
Answer 2: Yes, context, the next 200 years after the founding of Islam involved conquest. If over the last 1400 years Muslims have misinterpreted the Quran and believed it called for the violent subjugation of unbelievers, then the Quran isn’t the clear book that it claims to be.
Answer 3: Without proof? I’d say what’s going on in the Middle East and Europe right now is a sufficient amount of proof. I already discussed the character of Muhammad in answer 1.
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M.I.A.
12-27-2016, 11:38 PM
terrorism is a cost of war.

it manifests as collateral damage in most cases.


..people need to understand and contemplate that before perpetuating violence.

although loss is a driving factor in war..

and a person should really really understand that before perpetuating loss of life.

the costs are in most cases, too high.

and collateral damage is not an ethical solution to lowering them.

if you want acceptable terrorism then its to challenge peoples views and perspectives of the world..

or their "beliefs"

https://youtu.be/jErLx1L1CWs

https://youtu.be/riDlxCvFZWw

every land has seen war and every land has seen terrorism.. long before it has seen islam.

which is all rather contrived and clichéd..

but in the end their are only those that perpetuate loss and those that try to minimise it..

if you live in peace your winning.
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greenhill
12-27-2016, 11:51 PM
Originally Posted by hassan124
..... In regards to displaying good character, according to the Quran, Muhammad was the best example for how Muslims should behave. (Quran 33:21: “Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.”) So, according to this, if we want to see the ideal way Muslims should act, we should look to Muhammad. How did Muhammad behave? Well, he married Aisha when she was 6...), he had more wives than Islam allows, meaning he could twist his own revelations for his benefit (Quran 4:3; 33:50), ..., his theology changed as time went on when Jews and Christians didn’t accept him as a prophet (Quran 109; 22:39-40, 2:217; 9:73, 9:111, 9:123, Sahih al-Bukhari 6924, Sahih Muslim 30, 4366), etc. Based on all this, even if he did do good things, what about Muhammad deserves emulating? Wouldn’t Jesus be a far superior example of righteousness? Also, why would Muslims want to emulate Muhammad if he was unsure of his own salvation (Quran 46:9)?......If over the last 1400 years Muslims have misinterpreted the Quran and believed it called for the violent subjugation of unbelievers, then the Quran isn’t the clear book that it claims to be.
.......
Welcome to the forum.

Quite a few items were not very clear in what it is you are trying to say... but I find it strange that in a lifetime of showing great example to humanity, humility, patience, fairness, kindness etc, you chose to only mention that he got married to one person at a young age, that he married more wives than the rest of the muslims are allowed etc.

Yes, Jesus was a great prophet (as the rest of the other prophets) peace be upon them all, what examples would you say that Jesus gave that Muhammad (pbuh) did not? All prophets were righteous people and showed the way to be righteous, only Jesus was quite scathing towards the Jews, not prophet Muhammad.

Wishing you a great stay.


:peace:
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hassan124
12-31-2016, 07:23 AM
anyone else?
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Muhammad
12-31-2016, 03:40 PM
Your 'friend' has totally ignored Search's post explaining the importance of context. Instead, he has continued with that same error. If your 'friend' made as much effort to read about Islam with an open mind as he does in watching anti-Islamic videos and twisting things out of context, he might actually get somewhere with his inquiry. People who are not interested in learning the truth will simply pick and choose things to fit their agenda, whilst ignoring the context and the multitude of other details that will prove them wrong.

Originally Posted by hassan124
he had more wives than Islam allows,
The marriages of the Prophet :saws: are an excellent example of his virtuous character. If anyone studies the circumstances behind his marriages, he will see the noble reasons behind them such as strengthening ties between tribes, taking care of widows, increasing the number of female teachers etc. Indeed, most of his wives had been previously married. For over two decades, he remained married only to Khadeejah bint Khuwaylid (may Allah be pleased with her) who was many years older than him. Any notion of a man driven by desires is immediately thrown out of the window when one looks at the facts and applies a bit of integrity in their reading.

his theology changed as time went on when Jews and Christians didn’t accept him as a prophet
I'm not sure your friend knows what theology means. For example, permission being given to Muslims to fight or not has nothing to do with theology. Those core teachings of monotheism and articles of faith are highlighted in virtually every chapter of the Qur'an. The Qur'an begins with mention and praise of Allaah :swt: as the Lord of all the worlds, and it ends with seeking refuge in that same Lord of all mankind.

Besides, the next 200 or so years after the founding of Islam involved conquest..
Jihad is certainly a part of Islam and many battles did take place. But so did the many other teachings of Islam including prayer, fasting, pilgrimage, spiritual development, kindness to parents, relatives and orphans, societal welfare, seeking knowledge and teaching others. Arabia transformed from a place where female infants were buried alive, immoral practices rampant and social inequality to one of justice, respect and emancipation. Again, your friend is narrowing down on one aspect whilst turning a blind eye to the numerous other ones.

In the 9th century academic institutions like Bayt al-hikma were founded in Baghdad. In this academy, translators, scientists, scribes, authors, men of letters, writers, authors, copyists and others used to meet every day for translation, reading, writing, scribing, discourse, dialogue and discussion. Many manuscripts and books in various scientific subjects and philosophical concepts and ideas, and in different languages were translated there.

If over the last 1400 years Muslims have misinterpreted the Quran and believed it called for the violent subjugation of unbelievers
They haven't. Indonesia is among the countries having the largest number of Muslims in the world, and the majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. But, no Muslim army ever went to Indonesia or Malaysia. Muslims ruled Spain (Andalusia) for about 800 years. During this period the Christians and Jews enjoyed freedom to practice their respective religions, and this is a documented historical fact. Christian and Jewish minorities have survived in the Muslim lands of the Middle East for centuries. Countries such as Egypt, Morocco, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan all have significant Christian and Jewish populations. Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years, and therefore had the power to force each and every non-Muslim of India to convert to Islam, but they did not, and thus more than 80% of the Indian population remains non-Muslim.

Based on all this, even if he did do good things, what about Muhammad deserves emulating?
See the following links:
http://www.islamweb.net/en/article/134199/
http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...sting&vPart=74
http://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_..._Character.pdf
https://www.islamicboard.com/seerah/...behaviour.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/seerah/1...ammed-pbu.html
https://www.islamicboard.com/seerah/...y-mankind.html
The Profound Teachings of Prophet Muhammad
Prophet Muhammed the best example for mankind!
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