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GINGERBEARDMAN
12-27-2016, 11:45 AM
https://gingerbeardmansite.wordpress...uslims-racist/


Assalaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu,


I know most of you reading this have listened to or at least heard of the recent terrible comments by Hamza Yusuf on the subject of race at the 2016 RIS conference and maybe you are shocked someone you’ve maybe loved or followed for years could speak these words, perpetrate these racially charged and yes racist myths.

Now I’ve been wanting to write an article about the racism of many white revert Muslims for a while now, so rather than devoting a whole article to trashing someone who has already been thoroughly rebuked by so many powerful voices in the Muslim community over the years as well as more recently I want instead to use this incident to ask another more general question about are his views somewhat typical of white Muslim attitudes…


ARE WHITE MUSLIMS RACIST?

Full article linked top of the post
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ruglifeTX
12-27-2016, 01:24 PM
Everyone has the ability to be racist in some context if we let ourselves. I would like to say that I never generalize anyone but none of us are perfect and we all have to constantly work on ourselves
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ruglifeTX
12-27-2016, 01:30 PM
"White reverts are treated sometimes as status symbols by the Muslim community, so when a Masjid wants pictures of reverts to put on a fundraising brochure to go to the gulf, who gets called upon to help out?"


Truest statement ever! Hahaha
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ruglifeTX
12-27-2016, 01:31 PM
I know it's all random comments I keep making but I really enjoyed this article! Great job brother
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aaj
12-27-2016, 03:33 PM
:salam:

I think you have hit the nail on the head in this one brother.

It is a given fact that white privilege exists. There are those who are in denial of it and dismiss it. This white privilege was created by the European colonists when they ruled the world. Britain ruled the wold for a few centuries and then the other European nations came. When you have centuries of white people ruling over you, telling you white is better and the lighter you are from your people the more you will be favored. This centuries of bondage and occupation left a lasting impact on the psyche of the world. Not only did the White Europeans taught ethnocentric superiority to the world, they themselves believed this and taught it to their kids. If you go to any corner of the world, whether the people of pakistani, saudi, Filipino, or any colored nation that has been occupied and colonized, you will realize the same pattern. They all suffer from inferiority complex from centuries of bondage and oppression. And even the physical colonization ended , the mental colonization still exists. Still people of color see themselves as inferior and the European western nations have set up the world as such that even today the whites see themselves as superior and better. They all won't say it but Trump brought a lot of them out in the open.

And sadly, we see this in the ummah as well. The Muslims who put themselves down and the converts up by saying they are like the "sahabas" ignorantly dismissing themselves and their efforts of bettering themselves. No one is like the sahabas, no one. The converts get their slate wiped and get a refresh start, but then so do other Muslims who go do hajj, and those who sincerely repent. Do they know not that one who repents is like the one who has not committed the sin?

Your article brought out the uncomfortable truth that many are not willing to accept and many will try to deny or defend against. And those who speak out about that topic will also be shunned as "racist" or some other label, unless the person voicing this is a white person, like yourself. Then they cannot dismiss you as a "jealous" colored person.

But to answer your question, I don't think we can label whole group of people as racist. There exists racism in all groups, be it outward towards other groups or inwards towards their own. But for the most part I believe racism does exist in the white reverts. Because quite frankly , many reverts come from a racist white favored society where they see themselves as better. To think of themselves as equal as non-whites after reverting is not an easy task. One has to truly shed themselves of the ugly aspects of their cultural baggage to be free of racism and rarely do we see that.

Then again I don't like that hamza guy anyway. This is the same guy who said people go to do Jihad after watching too much porn. And that all those kuffars who died on 9-11 are shaheed while the Muslims killed who allegedly were behind it are not. Maybe it was his prejudice white bias talking or pro-western pleasing.
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M.I.A.
12-27-2016, 04:00 PM
are white muslims racist?

i dont know.

..i dont see them that way, the last white muslim i saw..

i assume he was a revert.. and assumption is a dangerous thing..

well he pulled out a wallet to pay for something and it was a well known alcohol company wallet.

mind goes...

lol alcohol you been bad, you this and that..

i go.. shaddap yo face..

so thats how it is.

as for the video in the link..

i absolutely agree that ignorance is the problem.

and those that propagate it are not racist, they are deceivers at the heart of it..

they propogate a false world view and heres the joke, it may be entirely reflective of what they have experienced and what they have been put through..

their truth.

...but it is not how the world has to be.


ironically even if you think of the future and how we all have hopes pinned on jesus as and the madhi.. or the 12th imam or whatever else i dont know about.

the only way to change tomorrow is dispelling ignorance.

and educating people who have not yet encountered the lives we claim to have lived.

ironically, everything is with allah swt..

but you get what you work towards.

its not going to happen overnight.


probably.

i dont run from the police because im innocent.

and if you ask me to shave of my beard i probably would..


it grows back given enough time.


its not the way most people live, they love whats behind them the most..

anything else is just loss.
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Born_Believer
12-27-2016, 05:18 PM
How all these people popping up on youtube turn in "sheikhs" is beyond me. It's not just Hamza Yusuf but many others. It would be better to read traditional Islamic literature and of course listen to those scholars who have been trained traditionally within the madrasah system, which is largely in place in the Asian subcontinent but also in the middle east and to a lesser extent africa.

Then all issues, racism or otherwise will be made clear to you. What I'm basically saying is dont put too much faith in one internet "sheikh" or other.
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anatolian
12-27-2016, 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by GINGERBEARDMAN
https://gingerbeardmansite.wordpress...uslims-racist/








Full article linked top of the post
Salam Aleikum brother. Maybe it is because of my bad English I don't know but I absolutely heard nothing racist in this speech. He spoke against racism from the begining till the end. What he says, after seeing all those racism within Arabs, their rising up against white racism is a sick idea. Yes he should not have made a generalization about Arabs, as there are racist and non-racist Arabs as it is in every nation. I think he refers to the racist ones. But He is not making a racist comment here.

As for the question..It really makes no sense to make such a generalization..This is an equation with three unknowns..There are white muslims who are racist and white muslims who are not and the list goes like that..If you were a racist person before convertion to Islam, you are supposed to leave it as it is against Islam. But, as it is mentioned by another member sometimes it is not that easy to leave such a habit in which you were born to..Some racist people just go on to be racist regardless of their faith because of their cultural heritage.. Also, racism is not only the problem of "whites"-by the way even this term is racist term considering the white colour is purer than the other colours. There is not a white race. It is a name given for the Germanic races. Every skin has some colour unless they are not fully albino-but it exists in all nations. There are many racist people here in Turkey.
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aaj
12-27-2016, 06:16 PM
@anatolian you have to see what he said in the context of what is going on in the west, especially in the US in regards to police brutality towards the minorities, especially black and the similarities in his speech and that of white right wing groups.

http://www.muslimahmediawatch.org/20...ack-pathology/
Reply

anatolian
12-27-2016, 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
@anatolian you have to see what he said in the context of what is going on in the west, especially in the US in regards to police brutality towards the minorities, especially black and the similarities in his speech and that of white right wing groups.

http://www.muslimahmediawatch.org/20...ack-pathology/
Salam bro. I have listened to it again and I again could not find a racist statement in it. A white policeman shoting a black man without a proper reason is a crime obviously. But we simply cannot say it is because of racism. It might be but it may not be as well. He says that there are black policemen shoting white people also. He states that there is a counter racism under the mask of anti-racism and I am completely agree with this. He says this exists in our own community. Yes many Muslims who have different ethnicities are making their own racisms.

I read the link. It complains about him too but I just could not find because which words of him they blame him. Is it becaues of the same speech?
Reply

Al Sultan
12-27-2016, 08:12 PM
dude are all of your replies and comments like this? written in a poetry - like style? lol you must be a poet of some sort.
Reply

aaj
12-27-2016, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
Salam bro. I have listened to it again and I again could not find a racist statement in it. A white policeman shoting a black man without a proper reason is a crime obviously. But we simply cannot say it is because of racism. It might be but it may not be as well. He says that there are black policemen shoting white people also. He states that there is a counter racism under the mask of anti-racism and I am completely agree with this. He says this exists in our own community. Yes many Muslims who have different ethnicities are making their own racisms.

I read the link. It complains about him too but I just could not find because which words of him they blame him. Is it becaues of the same speech?
:wasalam:

Bro if you can't see it then this is something that would require a lengthy discussion to show the underlying message of these things. Someone one living here in the west understands and sees it from a mile away because they have the current and historical context of it.
Reply

anatolian
12-27-2016, 08:53 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
:wasalam:

Bro if you can't see it then this is something that would require a lengthy discussion to show the underlying message of these things. Someone one living here in the west understands and sees it from a mile away because they have the current and historical context of it.
I am open for the further clarifications. I just came across with Hamza Yusuf in YT. He sounds a wise man. But if there is an underlying message beyond it which I am not able to see, it is sad. So what is your stance, are you not going to trust white people even the Muslims? Are you living in the US btw?
Reply

M.I.A.
12-27-2016, 09:24 PM
...was the whole thread implying that the shiek/scholar in question was not to be trusted?

...wow that went completely over my head.

https://youtu.be/oEVxS_AbN48

lurn gud.
Reply

Snow
12-27-2016, 09:25 PM
Isn't labeling white Muslims in a negative way racist?
This goes full circle.
Stop caring about race so much.
Reply

aaj
12-27-2016, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by anatolian
I am open for the further clarifications. I just came across with Hamza Yusuf in YT. He sounds a wise man. But if there is an underlying message beyond it which I am not able to see, it is sad. So what is your stance, are you not going to trust white people even the Muslims? Are you living in the US btw?

Bro, I've stated in my very first post on this thread that we can't generalize and say that all are of the same kind. But at the same time we also have to realize that such a thing does exist. And yes, i'm in the US.

Originally Posted by Snow
Isn't labeling white Muslims in a negative way racist?
This goes full circle.
Stop caring about race so much.
No, this is discussing whether there are white muslims who are racist. a question stemmed from what hamza stated regarding race issues. And the OP himself is a White Muslim bringing this issue on the table to discuss. We can't hide behind labeling this or that to avoid discussing the issues.
Reply

noraina
12-27-2016, 10:18 PM
Are white Muslims racist? Well, not any more or less than Muslims, or anyone else, from any other race or ethnicity. Being racist isn't particular to any group, it's an ideology that can afflict anyone, white or not.

I think with Hamza Yusuf, his comments were taken a little out of context. I don't agree with what he said, it might be a matter of him having a little too much faith in the police force and playing down certain incidents.

But it would be nice if we as a Muslim community overall stopped focusing so much on the colour of your skin or nationality. I do believe these are important in the sense of identity, but our collective sense as an Ummah should override any of those considerations when it comes to the bigger picture.
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Snow
12-27-2016, 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by aaj

No, this is discussing whether there are white muslims who are racist. a question stemmed from what hamza stated regarding race issues. And the OP himself is a White Muslim bringing this issue on the table to discuss. We can't hide behind labeling this or that to avoid discussing the issues.
Of course there are morons that happen to be white, just like there are morons in every race.
I just don't see the point in focusing on one being worse than the other - as that is the definition of racism.
Reply

ruglifeTX
12-27-2016, 11:24 PM
I think the biggest issue is Islam is supposed to take away the race issue. But we are still stuck with it. Is it cause we haven't let Islam level the playing field and us all look at each other as equal brothers and sisters. Wanting the best for our entire community . Or is everyone trying to cater Islam to their own agenda. Which takes away the beauty of Islam .
Reply

Snow
12-27-2016, 11:34 PM
"O people! Indeed, your Lord is one and your father is one. Indeed, there is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab, nor of a non-Arab over an Arab, nor of a white over a black, nor a black over a white, except by taqwa.
Reply

Zafran
12-28-2016, 02:23 AM
Originally Posted by aaj
:salam:

I think you have hit the nail on the head in this one brother.

It is a given fact that white privilege exists. There are those who are in denial of it and dismiss it. This white privilege was created by the European colonists when they ruled the world. Britain ruled the wold for a few centuries and then the other European nations came. When you have centuries of white people ruling over you, telling you white is better and the lighter you are from your people the more you will be favored. This centuries of bondage and occupation left a lasting impact on the psyche of the world. Not only did the White Europeans taught ethnocentric superiority to the world, they themselves believed this and taught it to their kids. If you go to any corner of the world, whether the people of pakistani, saudi, Filipino, or any colored nation that has been occupied and colonized, you will realize the same pattern. They all suffer from inferiority complex from centuries of bondage and oppression. And even the physical colonization ended , the mental colonization still exists. Still people of color see themselves as inferior and the European western nations have set up the world as such that even today the whites see themselves as superior and better. They all won't say it but Trump brought a lot of them out in the open.

And sadly, we see this in the ummah as well. The Muslims who put themselves down and the converts up by saying they are like the "sahabas" ignorantly dismissing themselves and their efforts of bettering themselves. No one is like the sahabas, no one. The converts get their slate wiped and get a refresh start, but then so do other Muslims who go do hajj, and those who sincerely repent. Do they know not that one who repents is like the one who has not committed the sin?

Your article brought out the uncomfortable truth that many are not willing to accept and many will try to deny or defend against. And those who speak out about that topic will also be shunned as "racist" or some other label, unless the person voicing this is a white person, like yourself. Then they cannot dismiss you as a "jealous" colored person.

But to answer your question, I don't think we can label whole group of people as racist. There exists racism in all groups, be it outward towards other groups or inwards towards their own. But for the most part I believe racism does exist in the white reverts. Because quite frankly , many reverts come from a racist white favored society where they see themselves as better. To think of themselves as equal as non-whites after reverting is not an easy task. One has to truly shed themselves of the ugly aspects of their cultural baggage to be free of racism and rarely do we see that.

Then again I don't like that hamza guy anyway. This is the same guy who said people go to do Jihad after watching too much porn. And that all those kuffars who died on 9-11 are shaheed while the Muslims killed who allegedly were behind it are not. Maybe it was his prejudice white bias talking or pro-western pleasing.
??? There isn't racism in Black, Asian and Arab communities? How many non white people think they are superior then white people. Hamza Yusuf was telling a truth that a lot non white Muslims dont want to admit. Furthermore at least in white communities people are actually addressing the problem - the same cannot be said for any other community frankly. The arabs of UAE or saudi arabia are not having a conversation - neither are Pakistanis and the caste system.

so when Hamza yusuf said that the US had some of the best anti racism laws sadly hes right because no other Muslim majority country even comes close. A low bar.
Reply

Zafran
12-28-2016, 02:34 AM
Originally Posted by aaj
@anatolian you have to see what he said in the context of what is going on in the west, especially in the US in regards to police brutality towards the minorities, especially black and the similarities in his speech and that of white right wing groups.

http://www.muslimahmediawatch.org/20...ack-pathology/
He wasn't just talking about the west - But Muslims from all walks of life that sadly have there own prejudices that they fail to call out on. Conveniently the article misses that point. Of course the article also forgets that Hamza Yusuf lived in Mauritania for over a decade and studied with black scholars.
Reply

aaj
12-28-2016, 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by Zafran
He wasn't just talking about the west - But Muslims from all walks of life that sadly have there own prejudices that they fail to call out on. Conveniently the article misses that point. Of course the article also forgets that Hamza Yusuf lived in Mauritania for over a decade and studied with black scholars.
Yes, we all have prejudice of one sort or another, no one is denying that. He studied with black scholars, he has a mexcian wife, these are moot points as the white racists use the same logic saying "i'm not racist, i have black friends", have read here:

http://verilymerrilymary.com/2015/08...k-friends.html

What you and others are missing is the underlying message of what hamza said. You may have missed this from the article, let me highlight here it:


I know how hard it can be to swallow the idea that a person you have revered for years—a person whose teachings brought you deeper into the fold of Islam—can have racist views. I get that you experience it as a loss, and I get that there is a bit of grieving involved for the image you once held. But after the shock subsides, recognize and acknowledge the danger of black pathology and how it was wound all up and through Yusuf’s RIS 2016 rhetoric.

Black pathology is the idea that black people are—perhaps simply by virtue of being born black—steeped in pathology, unable to think and behave normally, healthily, sanely. Black pathology states that we are inherently flawed, not in a “all of mankind is flawed” sort of way, but in a “something is specifically wrong with those people” sort of way. So the many problems that have befallen black people have nothing to do with concerted efforts of concentrated racism and everything to do with our messed up wiring, which prevents us from pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps like so many others. Yes, I know Yusuf never made such bold and direct claims, but there was definite danger in his words.

Why? Because he had an opportunity to educate a mass of mostly non-black Muslims on the oppression of their black brothers and sisters but instead spoke on black on black crime and how America’s anti-discrimination laws are top notch. Translation: “The problem is them.”

And then to add insult to injury, Yusuf brought up the racism “in our own communities” but only addressed anti-Jewish sentiment and Arab vs. non-Arab (i.e., South Asian) racism. He made no mention, not even in passing, of the very real and visible issue of anti-blackness in Muslim communities.

All that was required was a sincere apology, an admission of insensitivity, an acknowledgment of the fact that you don’t have the understanding or cultural sensibilities to speak to such issues.

But that’s not what happened. Instead, you crawled deeper into the cave of black pathology by saying the breakdown of the black family is the greatest issue facing black Americans, not racism. I must ask, how on earth can any person with any bit of black history under their belt discuss the tearing apart of black families, which is a real thing, WITHOUT centering the structural racism that was put in place specifically to do just that?


Originally Posted by Zafran
??? There isn't racism in Black, Asian and Arab communities? How many non white people think they are superior then white people. Hamza Yusuf was telling a truth that a lot non white Muslims dont want to admit. Furthermore at least in white communities people are actually addressing the problem - the same cannot be said for any other community frankly. The arabs of UAE or saudi arabia are not having a conversation - neither are Pakistanis and the caste system.
.
I never said racism doesn't exit in other communities or races. The zionists are the same in they think they are God's "chosen people" and we all are below cattle. The Brahmans of hinduism think the same that they are superior to all others. And the arabs of the Gulf think the same, that they are "Pure arabs" and all other arabs are fake. So yes, such racism does exist in other communities as well. BUT the topic on hand is white racism and especially among white Muslims. And no, in white communities this is not being discussed which is why the OP brought this issue up and something he mentioned in his article as well.

I knew someone would come around here taking the defensive stance and would take anything said by a non-white as nothing more than "jealous rant". So to quote from the OP's article:

"Due to the inherent racism and still colonized minds of so many in the Muslim community, my voice as a white Muslims is heard whilst so many others who are perhaps far more qualified to speak on this topic are ignored..."

So does the white racism exist ? Again i would agree with the OP and his article where he stated:

"I would argue they are and as a white revert, involved in new Muslim support activities and Dawah one of my responsibilities [is] to check that racism so it cannot just be dismissed as another bitter rant by an angry person of colour."
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anatolian
12-28-2016, 04:34 PM
The question is problematic. It should have been as "Is there racism within white Muslims?" The answer is yes from what you all tell but the answer for the the op is no. By the way MalcolmX is a good lesson for this subject
Reply

Al Sultan
12-28-2016, 10:40 PM
Malcolm X! it's been a long time since I've heard of him... I saw one beautiful video about him, he was talking about his journey and experience in Saudi Arabia, Mecca <3
Reply

islamea
12-28-2016, 11:34 PM
http://isslamea.blogspot.com islam is the dine of equality
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Al Sultan
12-29-2016, 12:33 AM
Guys, there are Muslims who are racists (which is wrong) and there are Muslims who are not racist, racism doesn't exist in Islam, Islam is anti racist /racism ..


Although I agree, sadly no Arab country has anti racism laws..
Reply

Zafran
12-29-2016, 12:56 AM
Originally Posted by aaj
Yes, we all have prejudice of one sort or another, no one is denying that. He studied with black scholars, he has a mexcian wife, these are moot points as the white racists use the same logic saying "i'm not racist, i have black friends", have read here:

http://verilymerrilymary.com/2015/08...k-friends.html

What you and others are missing is the underlying message of what hamza said. You may have missed this from the article, let me highlight here it:


I know how hard it can be to swallow the idea that a person you have revered for years—a person whose teachings brought you deeper into the fold of Islam—can have racist views. I get that you experience it as a loss, and I get that there is a bit of grieving involved for the image you once held. But after the shock subsides, recognize and acknowledge the danger of black pathology and how it was wound all up and through Yusuf’s RIS 2016 rhetoric.
No - Hamza yusuf has been serving the Muslim community for over 20 years - His mistakes dont overshadow his incredible work that hes done - Zaid Shakir and Yasir Qadhi put it best.
Reply

NewMan2016
12-29-2016, 10:00 AM
As salamu aleiykum,
As a white muslim in the west. I feel that many white people are very ignorant of many cultures and things they dont understand. Because of this i feel they sometimes express thwmselves in racist ways and are not even aware of it. I for one have a tough time getting people to understand why i have chosen this religion. Hopefully i can do my part to help them understand. Thanl you.
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Dclawspker
12-29-2016, 03:08 PM
It was an interesting read
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