Muslims will leave Islam in large groups...

[azc]

Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: “People have entered into Islam in large groups. Soon a time will come wherein they will leave the fold of Islam in large groups” (Musnad Ahmad, vol. 3 pg. 343. Refer: Majma’uz Zawaid, vol. 7 pg. 281)

[hisnameiszzz]

Oh dear, it's happening already.

A lot of young people in my immediate area have left Islam and it's happening all over the UK, and no doubt all over the world also.

[cooterhein]

As far as I'm aware, that's happening in Africa (excluding some North African countries) more than anywhere else. Elsewhere, it varies a lot, and it varies across a wide range. There is no single trend across the board, there are a bunch of different trends that kind of fall on a spectrum. That spectrum is quite broad. Generally however, Muslims residing in historically non-Muslim countries are more likely to openly apostasize, and those exact figures are more readily available. In historically Muslim countries (with just a few exceptions) the trend appears to be for open apostasy to be much less likely, but many of these countries don't give us an opportunity to look at any statistics and it's anyone's guess what might be happening with secretive apostasy. That probably varies from place to place as well, to a certain extent.

[crank.head]

Turkey joined islam iran joined Islam in large groups look at it now.... Judge for urself.

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[sister herb]

^^ Could you explain what you mean?

[azc]

Such ahadith are an stern warning for us, the Muslims by birth that Allah swt doesn't need us to exist his deen on the face of the earth. If we show indifference to Islam and take this deen for granted, Allah swt will raise other people who will embrace His deen wholeheartedly and they will spread the msg of Islam around the globe. Nobody has monopoly on Islam. Its gate is opened for all human beings. And this mankind is His creation. This hadith injuncts us to do introspection and self assessment of how we are following Islam.

[azc]

Oh dear, it's happening already. A lot of young people in my immediate area have left Islam and it's happening all over the UK, and no doubt all over the world also.

May Allah swt forgive our sin and protect our iman. Ameen

[azc]

Turkey joined islam iran joined Islam in large groups look at it now.... Judge for urself.

history tells us of past and being proud of past has no value. What is our present, must be scaled

[talibilm]

Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: “People have entered into Islam in large groups. Soon a time will come wherein they will leave the fold of Islam in large groups” (Musnad Ahmad, vol. 3 pg. 343. Refer: Majma’uz Zawaid, vol. 7 pg. 281)

:sl:

I am not sure this hadith refers after the immediate time after Prophet :saws: demise when some apostated (about 10,000) and took Musailama Kazzab as their Prophet ( a false Prophet who was killed in the battle of Yamama) as in this hadith

Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 76 :: Hadith 587

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "While I was sleeping, a group (of my followers were brought close to me), and when I recognized them, a man (an angel) came out from amongst (us) me and them, he said (to them), 'Come along.' I asked, 'Where?' He said, 'To the (Hell) Fire, by Allah' I asked, 'what is wrong with them' He said, 'They turned apostate as renegades after you left.' Then behold! (Another) group (of my followers) were brought close to me, and when I recognized them, a man (an angel) came out from (me and them) he said (to them); Come along.' I asked, "Where?' He said, 'To the (Hell) Fire, by Allah.' I asked, What is wrong with them?' He said, 'They turned apostate as renegades after you left. So I did not see anyone of them escaping except a few who were like camels without a shepherd."

Note : hope we remember after 4 months deadline to leave vicinity of Kaaba (sura tauba ban on Kafirs nude haj ref http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...se-9-5-say-So&) some pagans conditionally accepted Islam http://legacy.quran.com/9/5 as they did not want to leave even after this deadline but opted to stay where ever they were and to pray and pay zakat without fail but after the demise of Prophet :saws: some among them refused to pay zakat on whom Calipha Abu Bakr :RA: declared fight an declared them as Apostates

OR

It refers to the Noble Quran verse which said something like If we Muslims do take our Religion seriously Allah will bring new nations who would embrace Islam and they will Love Allah and Allah will love them and they will not be like (impious) us (the Born Muslims)

Wallahul aalam.

[azc]

:sl:I am not sure this hadith refers after the immediate time after Prophet :saws: demise when some apostated (about 10,000) and took Musailama Kazzab as their Prophet ( a false Prophet who was killed in the battle of Yamama) as in this hadithBukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 76 :: Hadith 587 Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "While I was sleeping, a group (of my followers were brought close to me), and when I recognized them, a man (an angel) came out from amongst (us) me and them, he said (to them), 'Come along.' I asked, 'Where?' He said, 'To the (Hell) Fire, by Allah' I asked, 'what is wrong with them' He said, 'They turned apostate as renegades after you left.' Then behold! (Another) group (of my followers) were brought close to me, and when I recognized them, a man (an angel) came out from (me and them) he said (to them); Come along.' I asked, "Where?' He said, 'To the (Hell) Fire, by Allah.' I asked, What is wrong with them?' He said, 'They turned apostate as renegades after you left. So I did not see anyone of them escaping except a few who were like camels without a shepherd." Note : hope we remember after 4 months deadline to leave vicinity of Kaaba (sura tauba ban on Kafirs nude haj ref http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...se-9-5-say-So&) some pagans conditionally accepted Islam http://legacy.quran.com/9/5 as they did not want to leave even after this deadline but opted to stay where ever they were and to pray and pay zakat without fail but after the demise of Prophet :saws: some among them refused to pay zakat on whom Calipha Abu Bakr :RA: declared fight an declared them as Apostates OR It refers to the Noble Quran verse which said something like If we Muslims do take our Religion seriously Allah will bring new nations who would embrace Islam and they will Love Allah and Allah will love them and they will not be like (impious) us (the Born Muslims) Wallahul aalam.

Followers of muzailma kazzab were mostly munafiqin; and some of the tribes refused to pay zakat because of being influenced by the conspiracy of munafiqin to harm Islam on large scale but sooner the Muslim tribes agreed to pay when senior sahaba ikram RA visited to convince them. The hukm of hadith where should be applied can't be ascertained as it's the job of scholars.

[hisnameiszzz]

On a personal note, I seem to be dipping in and out of Islam and Agnosticism (is that even a word or faith!) every other day.

I've reached out to about a total of 10 Aalims (most are Imams) and only 1 replied and gave me a bit of advice. I'm having a really bad time of it all and the thoughts in my head seem to take over.

Normally when I have been to bayaans in the past, they always say "keep in touch with Aalims to keep your faith sane". Well I know and my phone and email account know how many I have contacted. I can't really help it if they can't make time for me can I?

I'm going to do my own thread at some point, so please forgive me if the OP thinks I am taking over. Apologies.

[talibilm]

On a personal note, I seem to be dipping in and out of Islam and Agnosticism (is that even a word or faith!) every other day.

I've reached out to about a total of 10 Aalims (most are Imams) and only 1 replied and gave me a bit of advice. I'm having a really bad time of it all and the thoughts in my head seem to take over.

Normally when I have been to bayaans in the past, they always say "keep in touch with Aalims to keep your faith sane". Well I know and my phone and email account know how many I have contacted. I can't really help it if they can't make time for me can I?

I'm going to do my own thread at some point, so please forgive me if the OP thinks I am taking over. Apologies.

:sl:

Its waswas or doubts that almost many muslim goes through in some stage of their life and even some Sahabas too, so post your doubts inshallah you will get it cleared.

[azc]

On a personal note, I seem to be dipping in and out of Islam and Agnosticism (is that even a word or faith!) every other day. I've reached out to about a total of 10 Aalims (most are Imams) and only 1 replied and gave me a bit of advice. I'm having a really bad time of it all and the thoughts in my head seem to take over.Normally when I have been to bayaans in the past, they always say "keep in touch with Aalims to keep your faith sane". Well I know and my phone and email account know how many I have contacted. I can't really help it if they can't make time for me can I? I'm going to do my own thread at some point, so please forgive me if the OP thinks I am taking over. Apologies.

brother, shaytan will keep on infusing wasawas in heart till you exist in this world, so don't run after clarification of doubts. Bestway to defeat him is that seek the refuge of Allah swt from shaytan and ignore the wasawas. Take it easy!

[Snel]

Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: “People have entered into Islam in large groups. Soon a time will come wherein they will leave the fold of Islam in large groups” (Musnad Ahmad, vol. 3 pg. 343. Refer: Majma’uz Zawaid, vol. 7 pg. 281)

Not all hadith from Musnad Ahmad are sahih. In any case it is important to educate muslims about Islam and work to eradicate false beliefs such as the ones found in sufism. Because this is the background of many so called apostates. I'm saying "so called" because in several cases we see that these people never had the proper Islamic aqidah to begin with. Such as the people who left ahmadyia, they believed that Mirza Gulam Ahmad was a prophet after Muhammad which rendered them non-muslims anyway. Or can you say that a person who makes dua to the dead for blessings is a muslim, and therefore can leave Islam? Of course not.

It's also worth noting that apostasy is not only saying: "I'm a christian" or "I'm an atheist" but it can also be something more subtle. It could be that a person makes fun of the hijab for example, this could definitely fall under "istihza bil din" and therefore render somebody to be an apostate. It's not as obvious as someone who wears a cross or prays at the church. So muslims might be surprised that these people one day publically declare their non-islam, because they didn't pay attention when these people left islam before they announced their apostacy.

And if you ask them, they will surely say, "We were only conversing and playing." Say, "Is it Allah and His verses and His Messenger that you were mocking?". Make no excuse; you have disbelieved after your belief. If We pardon one faction of you - We will punish another faction because they were criminals. [Al-Tawbah 9:65-66]

It could also be the result of neglect from the person's parents. So the person, as a child, never got the chance to learn about islam or live as a muslim. The neglect robbed him of that opportunity. You have to ask yourself in these cases, what's the difference between these people and a person who was raised by non-muslim parents?

I think by first and foremost having a proper understanding of what makes a muslim and what negates someone's islam, and secondly making sure that muslims in general (our children especially) know their religion, we will be able to properly combat this problem. Combatting the problem may be in the form of:

• Dawah to other muslims OR people who call themselves muslims but have a flawed aquidah.
• Spending more time with the children.
• Real combat, taking back occupied muslim land. Military advancments to protect muslim land, muslim children and Islamic education.

[azc]

This age is the age of fitan.

[Scimitar]

Turkey joined islam iran joined Islam in large groups look at it now.... Judge for urself.

Bingo

Scimi

[azc]

@Snel :

Not all hadith from Musnad Ahmad are sahih

and not all hadith are ghair sahih as well. Moreover, what you say is not confined musnad ahmad only

In any case it is important to educate muslims about Islam

agree

and work to eradicate false beliefs such as the ones found in sufism

but all sufis aren't wrong.

Because this is the background of many so called apostates.

you mean once they were Muslims but later on they left Islam..? Can you write their names and source from where you've got all this?

I'm saying "so called" because in several cases we see that these people never had the proper Islamic aqidah to begin with

you mean, since the embracing Islam they had no correct aqida

can you say that a person who makes dua to the dead for blessings is a muslim, and therefore can leave Islam? Of course not

but they are likely to be deviants

It's also worth noting that apostasy is not only saying: "I'm a christian" or "I'm an atheist"

No, probably, it's apostasy

It could be that a person makes fun of the hijab for example, this could definitely fall under "istihza bil din"

agree.

[talibilm]

@Snel

:sl:

AFAIK a hadith is a hadith untill it has NOT been declared a Mowdhu ie fabricated, though a hadith could be classified as daif or weak based on the credibility of a certain person among the chain of narrators but that does not make it sure that its a fake or Mowdhu . Though its a not a Sahih or strong but we can see from Sahabas , some traveled for months just to hear a single hadith if someone trusted has it they did not think too much. As the value of anything are determined by Demand & supply for todays Muslims, easy n vast supply of 10,000's of hadith at our finger tips that had made them overlook the value of hadith. Even it it was a weak (due to the credibility of a Narrator's memory or truthfulness) we have to remember its known by every Muslim that adding a lie to a hadith will take him to hell so I think none among narrators could have taken that due risk of to fall into hell by adding a lie or told something from their opinion. A Hadith said even about Israliyat ( story narrated by Jews ) not to believe them or Not to reject themsince if you rejected it and if it was a truth that will come under a sin ( a big one ) but nowadays our people reject a daif hadith saying ah its just a daif :hmm:as if it has no value but IMO our hadiths are better stronger than the available proofs of narrations of Israliyat.

So except Moudhu I grade the hadith as a hadith and give its due respect . a parable to it is like a car is a car . The four top collectors Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Malik Muwatta could be compared to Benz, Bmw, Lexus, etc and the middle ones like Ahmad, Tirmidhi, Baihaki etc can be compared to Honda, Toyota etc and the lower ones like Hakim etc to Kia , Hyundai etc But Still a car is car and so a hadith is a Hadith. So we have to give due importance inshallah .

But the main commandments like Haram , halal, fard, main masaaill are to based or concluded mainly on Sahih hadith and the fazaill can also be concluded from the daif hadith.

I stand to corrected if my view goes against any Strong hadith or the Noble Quran.


On other points of leaving Islam you are right as you had quoted the appropriate Noble Quran unless one does not mock Voluntarily. But in one's ignorance he is not an apostate such a person has to be advised with hikmah and be guided to the right path

[Ibrahimz]

Such ahadith are an stern warning for us, the Muslims by birth that Allah swt doesn't need us to exist his deen on the face of the earth. If we show indifference to Islam and take this deen for granted, Allah swt will raise other people who will embrace His deen wholeheartedly and they will spread the msg of Islam around the globe. Nobody has monopoly on Islam. Its gate is opened for all human beings. And this mankind is His creation. This hadith injuncts us to do introspection and self assessment of how we are following Islam.

Bismillahrahmanrahim, thank you for this. Allahimdilah, this sounds like the truth. And Allah (the most merciful, the most exalted) knows best.

[cooterhein]

Turkey joined islam iran joined Islam in large groups look at it now.... Judge for urself.

I'd also like to know more details about how you judge that. I'm particularly interested in the specific connections between the large groups and the judgment that you reach.

[Snel]

@Snel : and not all hadith are ghair sahih as well. Moreover, what you say is not confined musnad ahmad only agree but all sufis aren't wrong. you mean once they were Muslims but later on they left Islam..? Can you write their names and source from where you've got all this? you mean, since the embracing Islam they had no correct aqida but they are likely to be deviants No, probably, it's apostasy agree.

I didn't say all of them were not sahih, but collections such as Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are more reliable in this regard, as it's generally assumed that everything within those are sahih.

Regarding the sufis: If some of them are doing things right and are not engaging in any bidah then why do they feel the need to put this label on themselves? And furthermore, by doing so they are also associating themselves with people who believe in things such as pantheism. They then call themselves "sufi muslims" (allegedly a perfect subset of muslims) and consequently include people like the pantheists within the fold of Islam. This is not something a muslim can accept. You should also consider the fact that neither Muhammad nor his companions called themselves "sufi muslims".

And you wanted a name of someone who left kufr sprinkled with green moon-crescents to one that isn't. Sure, how about Nabeel Qureshi, the christian apologetic who's also a friend of David Wood? He's definitely not an apostate from Islam, as he never was a muslim to begin with. He was previously an ahmadi.

[azc]

@Snel : Real sufi is is he who follows quran and sunnah. Plz read all articles in this link : https://www.deoband.org/category/tasawwuf/

[YahyaAE]

Allah does not need us, we need Him. And even if every last Muslim left the deen, that would not change what He is, the nature and truth of the universe. Those who leave the religion, (and I know a few, one of whom now even calls himself an atheist) are the ones who are hurting themselves.

[Imran520]

it is not good.

[greenhill]

I believe the holy prophet (pbuh) did say that islam was a stranger at the beginning and will be a stranger at the end.

Looking at what is happening and from what I have learnt and still learning the incredible story, it answers most of my questions of ages. And when one answer comes, it unlocks others too and sometimes a whole level of understanding comes to be, fusing perhaps two or three separate topics together.

I always thought, being a born muslim and with basic education in the deen understood the concept of Allah and tauheed, that those not exposed to that were disadvantaged. I questioned a lot why Allah allowed people to be born non muslims. Surely that is not fair. But as I learn, people enter islam, people leave islam. Allah says He chooses whom He gives hidayah. Our job is to ask for that hidayah.

…..This hadith injuncts us to do introspection and self assessment of how we are following Islam.

(from post #6)

Because these are all signs. Despite the signs or the times, whenever or wherever and even however it may be, each and every one will be asked the same questions. And the simple basic thing is that whenever, wherever, whatever and however everyone had their portion of tests and blessings and each had the capabilities and opportunities to earn the best place in jannah or the worst place in jahannam . . it has never been about things of the world, but it has become. The want of this world has erased the need to prepare for the next.

So, with islam still riding up there as the biggest growing religion, it will still take sometime before it becomes the stranger that it was in the beginning. And nabi Isa (pbuh) is due to come down somewhere in between… no?


:peace:

[Serinity]

:salam:

I pray to Allah that He keeps us on His path. Because only He can guide. may Allah keep us steadfast. Ameen. We are all in need of guidance. Lets make dua to Allah to keep us steadfast, and please make dua for me too.

Allahu alam.

[OmAbdullah]

On a personal note, I seem to be dipping in and out of Islam and Agnosticism (is that even a word or faith!) every other day.

I've reached out to about a total of 10 Aalims (most are Imams) and only 1 replied and gave me a bit of advice. I'm having a really bad time of it all and the thoughts in my head seem to take over.

Normally when I have been to bayaans in the past, they always say "keep in touch with Aalims to keep your faith sane". Well I know and my phone and email account know how many I have contacted. I can't really help it if they can't make time for me can I?

I'm going to do my own thread at some point, so please forgive me if the OP thinks I am taking over. Apologies.

Assalaamo alaikum.


We must take all texts to decide about a matter. About the age of fitan, we are told in one hadeeth shareef that a person will be mu'min in the morning and will turn kaafir in the evening. A person will be mu'min in the evening and will become kaafir in the morning. Then we are told in another hadeeth shareef that the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam said, " I am leaving two things among you, The Book of Allah and my Sunnah. Whoever holds fast to these two, he/she will never go astray." (Allah knows best the words of HIS Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa Sallam).


We are also told in a hadeeth shareef that we must recite the surah Al-Kahf on every Friday to protect ourselves from the fitan of Dajjaal.


We can conclude from the above ahaadeeth that we must understand the Holy Qur'aan and follow it in accordance with the Sunnah of the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. We must also convey its massage to others. Then, insha Allah we shall be protected from getting astray. This is sure because the Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam has told us. Similarly, we must recite the surah Al-Kahf on every Friday to protect ourselves from the fitan of Dajjaal as these fitans have already appeared. Then insha-Allah, we will be stead fast on our Deen.

[azc]

And for following Kitab and Sunnah we need to follow pious people. See surah fatiha