We Will Never Unite With The Rafidah - Shaykh Ahmad Musa Jibril

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

[Serinity]

:salam:

It is like uniting with rapists or murderers. In a way. Who said we should unite anyway?

Allahu alam.

[azc]

Who likes Rafidhis here...? I think, none. So what does it make sense to listen such lectures...? Listening these lectures increase intensity of hatred in our hearts against others. Let alone filthy rafidhis, other day you can see the lectures against sufis or barelvis or asha'ari or maturidis. They are on the mission to keep the rift between Muslims by criticising other groups of this ummah. It appears that the televengalists are funded with chunk of money. We are in delusion. RasulAllah s.a.w came to unite all the people on Islam without criticising kuffar, He (s.a.w) accepted even munafiqin as Muslims.why..? Lest the unity of the ummah be scattered........ We forget that Islam teaches us trying to have unity even with ahlul kitab let alone intra-groups of this ummah ''Qul ya ahlal kitabi ta'alo ila kalimatin sawaa'im baynana wa baynakum...'' (ale imran #64). .......... I don't like rafidhis at all but please stop taking interest in this hatred-shopping....... Think for a moment: Do these televengalist ever ask their kings why they are silent on killing of the innocent Muslims and rape incidents with our sisters in their neighbourhood...????

[sister herb]

Hate increases hate. We should try to grow out of it.

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[Mustafa16]

This disunity is the reason why the ummah is in the state that it is in.....the kuffar will continue to dominate the Earth so long as we are busy killing each other, while they are busy working together. and besides, what about the Saudi oppression of Shia? What about the sunni elite oppression of shia in Bahrain? what about the so-called, "moderate" Islamist rebel groups in Syria, who rape "rafidah" women? what about ISIS and al-Qaeda raping "rafidah women" and oppressing shia? just because some shias oppress sunnis, does not mean all shias are bad, and just because some sunnis oppress shias, does not mean all sunnis are bad....

[azc]

This disunity is the reason why the ummah is in the state that it is in.....the kuffar will continue to dominate the Earth so long as we are busy killing each other, while they are busy working together. and besides, what about the Saudi oppression of Shia? What about the sunni elite oppression of shia in Bahrain? what about the so-called, "moderate" Islamist rebel groups in Syria, who rape "rafidah" women? what about ISIS and al-Qaeda raping "rafidah women" and oppressing shia? just because some shias oppress sunnis, does not mean all shias are bad, and just because some sunnis oppress shias, does not mean all sunnis are bad....

crime is crime. It can't be justified.

[sister herb]

crime is crime. It can't be justified.

It can´t be justified, just same who made the crime.

[azc]

It can´t be justified, just same who made the crime.

yes, even it's against non Muslims

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Muslims do not unite with Kufr. It's as simple as that. They are not a group from the Ummah, the Shi`as. They are Satanists. Just as Muslims cannot unite with Satanists, they cannot unite with Shi`as.

There is only one way of following Islaam, and that is to follow it the way the Sahaabah-e-Kiraam, the Salaf of this Ummah, had followed it. And, the methodology of the Salaf of this Ummah was to never ever unite with Baatil. During the time of the Salaf, the Shi`as existed, and so did the Khawaarij, Jahmiyyah, Jabariyyah, Qadariyyah, Mu`tazilah, Mu`attilah, etc. the Salaf never ever called for unity with them.

So it's a simple matter of, those calling for unity in these days are opposing the Deen as it was followed by the Sahaabah. And if you are not following Islaam the way Sahaabah followed it, then you aren't following Islaam at all. Then you may as well pray in a church and wear a cross.

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Another thing:

Shaykh Ahmad Jibril does not live in Saudi. He has been arrested multiple times and spent years of his life in jail. He is an enemy of the Saudi government. So, there is no "king" he must ask anything to. His stance towards all of the current so-called "Islaamic" governments in the world is well-known.

There is a saying, among the Egyptians:

مش لازم تقول كل اللي عارفه بس لامز تعرف كل اللي تقوله

"It is not necessary to speak everything you know, but it is necessary to know everything that you speak."

[Scimitar]

I put the rafida in the same camp as the rest who make fun of our deen, our prophet pbuh, our sahabi RA etc.

These trouble makers lack spiritual insight, and being materially inclined whilst posing as "spiritualists" puts them in the "lost Property" section, for me anyway :D

Scimi

[czgibson]

Greetings,

We are all human beings. Hatred and division cause nothing but trouble.

Peace

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Rapists and murderers are human beings as well. So why lock them up, then? Embrace them. Have unity with them. No more locking up of rapists and murderers. Let them come live by you.

[Zeal]

Salahuddin ayyubi (ra) never united with the shia for a reason

And success came to him

[Serinity]

:salam:

Objectively speaking, having shias teach our kids "Islam" is bad. Similarily to how you wouldn't want a gang of thugs who kill for fun and rape children to teach your family/children. What I mean, objectively, looking at the shiah group, you would see that they disbelieve in the Quran by saying that it is incomplete, they hate the sahabahs r.a. (I am speaking of them as a group)

Would you want someone who taught you to kill as being good, and being good as evil?

Anyways, sometimes, being human is not an excuse to what one is doing. Nor is ignorance. But tbh, I don't really know what the Islamic approach would be, but in my hearts of hearts, I can not tolerate someone who berates and insults the Prophet :saw: or Islam.

I welcome sane arguementative discussions, but discussions that is based on lashing and emotions, is not good for either of us.

Even a disbeliever / kafir who knows about Islam, would know that the shia / rafidhah group has in no way, shape or form, anything to do with Islam.

Allahu alam.

[ardianto]

Rapists and murderers are human beings as well. So why lock them up, then? Embrace them. Have unity with them. No more locking up of rapists and murderers. Let them come live by you.

We must avoid generalization. Just because there are rapist and murderer among Shia, doesn't mean all Shia are rapist and murderer. If we fall into generalization, then we might do injustice toward Shia who don't do something wrong toward other people.

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

We must avoid generalization. Just because there are rapist and murderer among Shia, doesn't mean all Shia are rapist and murderer. If we fall into generalization, then we might do injustice toward Shia who don't do something wrong toward other people.

You didn't understand my post, akhi.

[azc]

Salahuddin ayyubi (ra) never united with the shia for a reasonAnd success came to him

ONLY Hz Muhammad s.a.w is the ideal for all Muslims... Unity doesn't mean ''befriend them', rather trying to have 'peace' between us and them and keep your personal thoughts, mythology within your sects and refrain from attacking or slandering each other

[azc]

Muslims do not unite with Kufr. It's as simple as that. They are not a group from the Ummah, the Shi`as. They are Satanists. Just as Muslims cannot unite with Satanists, they cannot unite with Shi`as.There is only one way of following Islaam, and that is to follow it the way the Sahaabah-e-Kiraam, the Salaf of this Ummah, had followed it. And, the methodology of the Salaf of this Ummah was to never ever unite with Baatil. During the time of the Salaf, the Shi`as existed, and so did the Khawaarij, Jahmiyyah, Jabariyyah, Qadariyyah, Mu`tazilah, Mu`attilah, etc. the Salaf never ever called for unity with them.So it's a simple matter of, those calling for unity in these days are opposing the Deen as it was followed by the Sahaabah. And if you are not following Islaam the way Sahaabah followed it, then you aren't following Islaam at all. Then you may as well pray in a church and wear a cross.

it shows that you keep grudge in your heart for your opponents. Let alone shias even you have tried to prove sh tariq jamil ha as deviant... Muslim who doesn't follow your iedeology is your enemy. Stop this hatred business. Ask your scholars why shias are allowed to perform hajj...?

[azc]

:salam:Objectively speaking, having shias teach our kids "Islam" is bad. Similarily to how you wouldn't want a gang of thugs who kill for fun and rape children to teach your family/children. What I mean, objectively, looking at the shiah group, you would see that they disbelieve in the Quran by saying that it is incomplete, they hate the sahabahs r.a. (I am speaking of them as a group)Would you want someone who taught you to kill as being good, and being good as evil? Anyways, sometimes, being human is not an excuse to what one is doing. Nor is ignorance. But tbh, I don't really know what the Islamic approach would be, but in my hearts of hearts, I can not tolerate someone who berates and insults the Prophet :saw: or Islam.I welcome sane arguementative discussions, but discussions that is based on lashing and emotions, is not good for either of us.Even a disbeliever / kafir who knows about Islam, would know that the shia / rafidhah group has in no way, shape or form, anything to do with Islam. Allahu alam.

I dislike shias, even I dislike to talk to them but I'm against this hatred business which some scholars deal in and provoke common Muslims to waste their energy on spreading hatred. Invest your energy in constructive work..... Asad is a shia, what he is doing against sunni Muslims why these scholars don't ask their rulers to protect them or if their rulers don't support them then why these scholars don't come forward to support the innocent Muslims.?

[Zeal]

ONLY Hz Muhammad s.a.w is the ideal for all Muslims... Unity doesn't mean ''befriend them', rather trying to have 'peace' between us and them and keep your personal thoughts, mythology within your sects and refrain from attacking or slandering each other

Salahuddin ra dealt with them justly they were trying to spread a perverted version of islam so he didnt let them have schools so they couldn't propagate their message etc al-azhar was one of them, if I remember correctly. But he didn't persecute them like Bashar. So there was a level of peace and it was in balance with justice/what is right.

[azc]

Salahuddin ra dealt with them justly they were trying to spread a perverted version of islam so he didnt let them have schools so they couldn't propagate their message etc al-azhar was one of them, if I remember correctly. But he didn't persecute them like Bashar. So there was a level of peace and it was in balance with justice/what is right.

Salahuddin ayyubi ra was an ash'ari. First, Ask your scholars whether or not he was a deviant Muslim...?

[Zeal]

Salahuddin ayyubi ra was an ash'ari. First, Ask your scholars whether or not he was a deviant Muslim...?

Ashari aqeedah is acceptable...

[azc]

Ashari aqeedah is acceptable...

then who considers ashari aqida as deviation is himself deviant... Right..?

[Zeal]

then who considers ashari aqida as deviation is himself deviant... Right..?

I don't think you can say that...

[azc]

I don't think you can say that...

I am against this war of deviation. People have certificates to call each other as deviants. http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmes...m=6&Topic=1021

[Zeal]

I am against this war of deviation. People have certificates to call each other as deviants. http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmes...m=6&Topic=1021

So salafis are deviants?


Lol anyway there's extremism of every kind(on two opposite ends) there also you can claim to be ashari and deviant, matuirdi and deviant etc etc.

There has to be a standard for which a muslim can call others deviants and any odd laymen shouldn't be doing that for sure.


Lastly, don't go to a salafi website to see ahmads musa jibrils views see them yourself


People twist, shape and distort alot of things even when it comes to the works of classical scholars like ibn taymiyyah ra many things can be taken out of context



Salam

[azc]

So salafis are deviants?Lol anyway there's extremism of every kind(on two opposite ends) there also you can claim to be ashari and deviant, matuirdi and deviant etc etc.There has to be a standard for which a muslim can call others deviants and any odd laymen shouldn't be doing that for sure.Lastly, don't go to a salafi website to see ahmads musa jibrils views see them yourself People twist, shape and distort alot of things even when it comes to the works of classical scholars like ibn taymiyyah ra many things can be taken out of contextSalam

I don' like this 'deviation' word for Muslims. I think All Muslims are on haq; but who's really on haq will be decided on judgement day. I don't listen to scholars but only a few. If any scholar call other Muslims or groups as deviant day and night can't be a good Muslim. Those scholars who appeal the Muslims to be united and are on the job, are praiseworthy. If fatwas of all sects against each other are accepted then none is going into paradise

[sister herb]

We must avoid generalization. Just because there are rapist and murderer among Shia, doesn't mean all Shia are rapist and murderer. If we fall into generalization, then we might do injustice toward Shia who don't do something wrong toward other people.

That´s true. Also, among of Sunnis have rapists and murderers. Does that mean that all Sunnis are bad and Sunni belief is evil?

[Zeal]

Hate increases hate. We should try to grow out of it.

“Verily the strongest handhold of faith is that you love for the sake
of Allah and that you hate for the sake of Allah.”*[Ahmad 4/286, authentic]

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Rapists and murderers are human beings as well. So why lock them up, then? Embrace them. Have unity with them. No more locking up of rapists and murderers. Let them come live by you.

Bringing up rapists and murderers in a discussion about people whose beliefs differ from yours gives us some insight into the way your mind works. Rape and murder are criminal acts that restrict the freedom of victims, so the perpetrators deserve to have their own freedom restricted. Hating them won't achieve anything though.

A murderer is someone who has let their hatred overtake everything else, and as I said such an attitude brings nothing but trouble. You yourself will probably continue to preach hatred, but (as seen in this thread), it's encouraging to see that there are some Muslims here who have stopped listening to you.

Peace

[sister herb]

“Verily the strongest handhold of faith is that you love for the sake
of Allah and that you hate for the sake of Allah.”*[Ahmad 4/286, authentic]

Out of context phrase does not tell to you what it is meant to refers to. By this sentence we could justify love and hate to what ever matter we like and how ever we like.

[azc]

“Verily the strongest handhold of faith is that you love for the sakeof Allah and that you hate for the sake of Allah.”*[Ahmad 4/286, authentic]

extremely difficult to practice upon this hadith. Despite all my efforts I couldn't follow this hadith. and Allah swt knows what is in our heart and what is on our tongue

[Zeal]

Out of context phrase does not tell to you what it is meant to refers to. By this sentence we could justify love and hate to what ever matter we like and how ever we like.

We hate the disbelievers and we love the believers. We hate the disobedient Muslims according to their level of disobedience, and we love them for their level of of obedience.*‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Umar*(may Allaah be pleased with him) was going between Safaa and Marwah (making ‘Umrah) when a long-bearded man, a mu’ath-thin of the Haram, said to him, “O Abaa ‘Abdir-Rahmaan! I love you for the sake of Allaah!” He replied,*“But I hate you for the sake of Allaah!”*His companions blamed him for that, but he defended himself, saying: “He goes overboard in (calling) the athaan, and he takes money for it!” (Musannaf*of ‘Abdur-Razzaaq, 1/481) Al-Albaanee authenticated it in*as-Silsilah as-Saheehah*(1/104).

Source: http://www.bakkah.net/en/shaykh-ibn-...-of-allaah.htm



Also, the comment seemed to me as if you opposed what was said in the video, I'm not sure if that's correct?

[Zeal]

extremely difficult to practice upon this hadith. Despite all my efforts I couldn't follow this hadith. and Allah swt knows what is in our heart and what is on our tongue

May Allah rectify what is in our hearts

[azc]

May Allah rectify what is in our hearts

Ameen.....! :jz:

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

extremely difficult to practice upon this hadith. Despite all my efforts I couldn't follow this hadith. and Allah swt knows what is in our heart and what is on our tongue

What it seems you're trying to say is that, "Hey, this Hadeeth is too difficult for Me to act on, so let's just throw it out. Pretend it doesn't exist."

Maybe that's not what you mean, but it's what it seems like.

Another thing: I regard the Saudi government as a Kaafir government, because I regard the king as a Taaghoot. So, you need to stop linking me with the "Palace scholars" of Saudi. I have no "king".

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

I am telling you that 14 centuries of `Ulamaa-e-Haqq have unanimously declared enmity towards the Shi`as. Not one `Aalim from those 14 centuries of true Islaamic scholarship ever called for unity with the Raafidhah. Unity with the Raafidhah is a newly invented 21st century belief. All newly invented beliefs are Baatil. The Deen of Islaam was completed 14 centuries ago. It didn't get completed in the 14th century. Also, we don't accept any additions, subtractions or alterations to that Deen which was perfected by Allaah Ta`aalaa 14 centuries ago. Once something becomes perfect, you do not add to it, or subtract from it, or alter anything of it. If you do so, then you action implies that you do not regard it as being perfect, because something that is perfect does not get changed. If it needs to be changed, it isn't perfect. So whoever regards the Deen as having not been perfected already 14 centuries ago has rejected the Qur'aan, because that is what Allaah Ta`aalaa says in the Qur'aan. And whoever rejects the Qur'aan is a Kaafir.

Look how ridiculous this whole situation is. I am telling you what the `Ulamaa for 1,400 years have been saying, generation after generation after generation, and I'm regarded as the "stranger" who's spreading some weird views no one's heard about. Meanwhile, the ones who are actually spreading weird views which only originated in this belated 21st century, they are regarded as the ones spreading the true Islaam. What a joke. If you had studied the true history of Islaam in totality, you would laugh at it.

The people calling for unity with the Raafidhah are calling for a version of Islaam OTHER than what the Salaf of this Ummah were upon. Say it as it is. No beating around the bush.

[azc]

What it seems you're trying to say is that, "Hey, this Hadeeth is too difficult for Me to act on, so let's just throw it out. Pretend it doesn't exist."Maybe that's not what you mean, but it's what it seems like.Another thing: I regard the Saudi government as a Kaafir government, because I regard the king as a Taaghoot. So, you need to stop linking me with the "Palace scholars" of Saudi. I have no "king".

What it seems you're trying to say is that, "Hey, this Hadeeth is too difficult for Me to act on, so let's just throw it out. Pretend it doesn't exist."Maybe that's not what you mean, but it's what it seems like.

I reiterate it's difficult for a common Muslim like me, however, highly pious people act upon it. May Allah swt grant us tawfiq to act upon this hadith. Ameen

Another thing: I regard the Saudi government as a Kaafir government, because I regard the king as a Taaghoot. So, you need to stop linking me with the "Palace scholars" of Saudi. I have no "king"

You are too harsh.... Kafir, taghut..??? Sheer bunkum. You could phrase in a healthy way. Work on your akhlaq. I dislike their ruling class too, but I try to follow Islamic ettiqutes.

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

You are too harsh.... Kafir, taghut..??? Sheer bunkum. You could phrase in a healthy way. Work on your akhlaq. I dislike their ruling class too, but I try to follow Islamic ettiqutes.

What is your definition of "phrasing it in a healthy way"? Most likely, what you mean by that is, "You can beat around the bush and not call a spade a spade." I never do that, and never will. It's foolish. It wastes time and confuses things. Rather, be frank and straightforward always. If something is Haraam, say "This is Haraam." Don't say, "This is, sort of, something that, maybe, possibly, isn't 100% permissible, and it's like, not Very good to do, and it's sort of better if a person were to not always do it, but that's just what I feel, and I'm not judging anyone."

What's the need to make such spineless statements? It wastes the time of the reader. Cut to the chase. Let me ask you something: Say you're in a room with someone. There are a bunch of bottles with maybe water or juice inside, and one particular bottle has poison in (hypothetical situation here). This friend of yours - unknowingly - picks up the bottle of poison and is about to drink it up. What are you going to do? Are you going to make a bunch of long-winded statements about why it's better if the person rather doesn't drink all of it, or are you just going to be straightforward and say, "Hey, don't drink that! It's poison."

?

The `Ulamaa have to clearly come out and say what is Haraam and what is Kufr so that people can avoid it. That's their duty. Haraam and Kufr is infinitely worse than poison. Poison only harms a person in this life, whereas Kufr destroys their Aakhirah forever. So which is more dangerous? Then, when it comes to something as dangerous as Kufr, there's no room for playing around. You only play around when you take the Deen as a joke. You don't take it seriously. You don't Really believe in it.

People should be honest with themselves. When it comes to saving a person from some worldly harm, like throwing them out of the way of a speeding car, they'll praise a person who does that despite the force he used to get the job done. He threw them out of the way. He didn't stand around speaking in a long-winded way about the harms of standing in the way of an oncoming car driving at full speed. In fact, they'd call him crazy if he did that. They'd say do what needs to be done to get the person out of the way and out of danger. So then why do they not feel the same when it comes to getting the person out of the way of Kufr, out of the way of Jahannam? The `Ulamaa know that this particular action leads to Jahannam, so they tell people, "This is Kufr! Stay away from this!"

The only people who will get upset when hearing that are people who don't truly believe in Jahannam. If they truly believed in Jahannam, they'd appreciate being saved from it.

How foolish is Insaan...

[azc]

I am telling you that 14 centuries of `Ulamaa-e-Haqq have unanimously declared enmity towards the Shi`as. Not one `Aalim from those 14 centuries of true Islaamic scholarship ever called for unity with the Raafidhah. Unity with the Raafidhah is a newly invented 21st century belief. All newly invented beliefs are Baatil. The Deen of Islaam was completed 14 centuries ago. It didn't get completed in the 14th century. Also, we don't accept any additions, subtractions or alterations to that Deen which was perfected by Allaah Ta`aalaa 14 centuries ago. Once something becomes perfect, you do not add to it, or subtract from it, or alter anything of it. If you do so, then you action implies that you do not regard it as being perfect, because something that is perfect does not get changed. If it needs to be changed, it isn't perfect. So whoever regards the Deen as having not been perfected already 14 centuries ago has rejected the Qur'aan, because that is what Allaah Ta`aalaa says in the Qur'aan. And whoever rejects the Qur'aan is a Kaafir.Look how ridiculous this whole situation is. I am telling you what the `Ulamaa for 1,400 years have been saying, generation after generation after generation, and I'm regarded as the "stranger" who's spreading some weird views no one's heard about. Meanwhile, the ones who are actually spreading weird views which only originated in this belated 21st century, they are regarded as the ones spreading the true Islaam. What a joke. If you had studied the true history of Islaam in totality, you would laugh at it. The people calling for unity with the Raafidhah are calling for a version of Islaam OTHER than what the Salaf of this Ummah were upon. Say it as it is. No beating around the bush.

One simple Q: If all shias are kafir then why they are found as the narrators in sihah sitta.. Even in bukhari, muslims? Why muhaddisin of ilm ar rijal declared several of them as RELIABLE AND TRUSTWORTHY....??? Do you know all this or this aspect is unknown to you...?

[azc]

What is your definition of "phrasing it in a healthy way"? Most likely, what you mean by that is, "You can beat around the bush and not call a spade a spade." I never do that, and never will. It's foolish. It wastes time and confuses things. Rather, be frank and straightforward always. If something is Haraam, say "This is Haraam." Don't say, "This is, sort of, something that, maybe, possibly, isn't 100% permissible, and it's like, not Very good to do, and it's sort of better if a person were to not always do it, but that's just what I feel, and I'm not judging anyone."What's the need to make such spineless statements? It wastes the time of the reader. Cut to the chase. Let me ask you something: Say you're in a room with someone. There are a bunch of bottles with maybe water or juice inside, and one particular bottle has poison in (hypothetical situation here). This friend of yours - unknowingly - picks up the bottle of poison and is about to drink it up. What are you going to do? Are you going to make a bunch of long-winded statements about why it's better if the person rather doesn't drink all of it, or are you just going to be straightforward and say, "Hey, don't drink that! It's poison."?The `Ulamaa have to clearly come out and say what is Haraam and what is Kufr so that people can avoid it. That's their duty. Haraam and Kufr is infinitely worse than poison. Poison only harms a person in this life, whereas Kufr destroys their Aakhirah forever. So which is more dangerous? Then, when it comes to something as dangerous as Kufr, there's no room for playing around. You only play around when you take the Deen as a joke. You don't take it seriously. You don't Really believe in it.People should be honest with themselves. When it comes to saving a person from some worldly harm, like throwing them out of the way of a speeding car, they'll praise a person who does that despite the force he used to get the job done. He threw them out of the way. He didn't stand around speaking in a long-winded way about the harms of standing in the way of an oncoming car driving at full speed. In fact, they'd call him crazy if he did that. They'd say do what needs to be done to get the person out of the way and out of danger. So then why do they not feel the same when it comes to getting the person out of the way of Kufr, out of the way of Jahannam? The `Ulamaa know that this particular action leads to Jahannam, so they tell people, "This is Kufr! Stay away from this!"The only people who will get upset when hearing that are people who don't truly believe in Jahannam. If they truly believed in Jahannam, they'd appreciate being saved from it.How foolish is Insaan...

I think, first you need to grow up and Learn to control your anger.

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

One simple Q: If all shias are kafir then why they are found as the narrators in sihah sitta.. Even in bukhari, muslims? Why muhaddisin of ilm ar rijal declared several of them as RELIABLE AND TRUSTWORTHY....??? Do you know all this or this aspect is unknown to you...?

Your posts make me laugh sometimes, bhai saheb. I don't think you've even read Saheeh al-Bukhaari? The Arabic? Maybe you've heard something about this mentioned on the internet. The Shi`a Raafidhah as we call them today, none of their narrations or narrators exist in Saheeh al-Bukhaari or any of the rest of the primary Kutub of Hadeeth. Maybe someone mentioned something like this to you. If so, he didn't explain it, whether deliberately or unknowingly. There are no Shi`a narrators in Bukhaari. There are people who felt that, among the Sahaabah, Hadhrat `Ali رضي الله عنه was superior to Hadhrat `Uthmaan ibn `Affaan رضي الله عنه. These people did not have Any of the beliefs of the Shi`as, such as the belief in the Qur'aan being altered, and slandering Hadhrat `Aa'ishah رضي الله عنه, accusing her of committing a Faahishah (shameless act), and cursing the Sahaabah and regarding them as Kaafirs, and claiming Hadhrat `Ali رضي الله عنه should have been the Nabi instead of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم, and saying that their 12 Imaams created the human beings, and the Jinn, and the Malaa'ikah, etc.

The claim of "Shi`a narrators in Saheeh al-Bukhaari" is a ridiculous lie manufactured by people who are on the payroll of the Shi`as and want to promote their cult of satanism. Let me re-iterate: There are no Raafidhi narrators in Saheeh al-Bukhaari.

See this:

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=10414

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

I think, first you need to grow u and Learn to control your anger.

Anger towards Kufr and evil is something commendable in Islaam.

Bhai saheb, you need to learn about al-Walaa wal-Baraa, and the Mas'alah of al-Hubbu fillaah wal-Bughdhu fillaah (Loving and Hating for the Sake of Allaah).

These are important matters linked to Tawheed which people today do not attach any importance to, either because they don't know about it or because it doesn't conform to modernist version of "Islam" which they have invented.

But, al-Walaa wal-Baraa and al-Hubb wal-Bugdh fillaah was very widespread among Sahaabah-e-Karaam. In fact, it's existed throughout the history of Islaam until the invention of the "modernist" version of Islaam in the 21st century.

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

The general rule is that a person is to contain their anger; however, there are exceptions to this rule. One such exception is when anyone tampers with the Deen. The Sahaabah mention that when it came to the Laws of Allaah Ta`aalaa, no one used to become angrier than Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم. There are many examples of this in the Ahaadeeth.

When it comes to Dunyawi matters, you control your anger. This is the Sunnah. But what you'll find today is that when it comes to issues of Deen and tampering with the Deen, then everyone keeps their cool, but when it comes to trivial Dunyawi matters, that's when everyone blows up and loses their temper. Yet, those are the guys who are saying, "Control your temper" when the Deen of Allaah is being messed with. They think they're controlling their temper, these guys, but they're just being deceived by Shaytaan. There are cases in which a person is supposed to get angry, and one of those cases is when it comes to your Deen. Someone messes around with the Deen, you get angry. Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم used to. Sahaabah used to.

[Serinity]

:salam:

Before we go any further, I think we should explain and elaborate on what "Hatred for Allah" means.

Hatred that prevents and protects you from haram. From disobedience, is good.

Can anyone explain in more depth?

I dare say even kafirs hate things such as rapists and child molesters. If a kafir saw a rapist storming towards a child screaming, that he'd hate him.

Not hating a rapist like that, is unnatural. Afaik. Hatred that is based on assumptions, lies and emotions, nothing else, is wrong.

There is a point where one is not just lashing out, but just making an observation.
Allahu alam.

[Serinity]

I dislike shias, even I dislike to talk to them but I'm against this hatred business which some scholars deal in and provoke common Muslims to waste their energy on spreading hatred. Invest your energy in constructive work..... Asad is a shia, what he is doing against sunni Muslims why these scholars don't ask their rulers to protect them or if their rulers don't support them then why these scholars don't come forward to support the innocent Muslims.?

If I let my anger and hatred make me do injustice etc. Then obv that is wrong.

As long as there is a reason to hate someone, there will always be hatred.

However, shias, are not like the average kafir, however, I will judge people case by case.

Lashing out based on pure emotions is dumb. And grasping for straws for reasons to hate, when there is no reason to, is dumb.

If I meet a Shia Muslim, I will ask them to read the verses of the Quran that will dissolve any disbelief, if Allah wills.

Such as the Quran being incomplete. If the words of Allah is not enough, Idk what is.

[azc]

Anger towards Kufr and evil is something commendable in Islaam. Bhai saheb, you need to learn about al-Walaa wal-Baraa, and the Mas'alah of al-Hubbu fillaah wal-Bughdhu fillaah (Loving and Hating for the Sake of Allaah).These are important matters linked to Tawheed which people today do not attach any importance to, either because they don't know about it or because it doesn't conform to modernist version of "Islam" which they have invented.But, al-Walaa wal-Baraa and al-Hubb wal-Bugdh fillaah was very widespread among Sahaabah-e-Karaam. In fact, it's existed throughout the history of Islaam until the invention of the "modernist" version of Islaam in the 21st century.

would that it were true in your case. I know where you come from... Language of sh desai is known to us. Even sh taqi uthmani , sh tariq jamil, sh ibn taimyya or sh ibn qayyim.how they are addressed is not hidden....

[azc]

Your posts make me laugh sometimes, bhai saheb. I don't think you've even read Saheeh al-Bukhaari? The Arabic? Maybe you've heard something about this mentioned on the internet. The Shi`a Raafidhah as we call them today, none of their narrations or narrators exist in Saheeh al-Bukhaari or any of the rest of the primary Kutub of Hadeeth. Maybe someone mentioned something like this to you. If so, he didn't explain it, whether deliberately or unknowingly. There are no Shi`a narrators in Bukhaari. There are people who felt that, among the Sahaabah, Hadhrat `Ali رضي الله عنه was superior to Hadhrat `Uthmaan ibn `Affaan رضي الله عنه. These people did not have Any of the beliefs of the Shi`as, such as the belief in the Qur'aan being altered, and slandering Hadhrat `Aa'ishah رضي الله عنه, accusing her of committing a Faahishah (shameless act), and cursing the Sahaabah and regarding them as Kaafirs, and claiming Hadhrat `Ali رضي الله عنه should have been the Nabi instead of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم, and saying that their 12 Imaams created the human beings, and the Jinn, and the Malaa'ikah, etc.The claim of "Shi`a narrators in Saheeh al-Bukhaari" is a ridiculous lie manufactured by people who are on the payroll of the Shi`as and want to promote their cult of satanism. Let me re-iterate: There are no Raafidhi narrators in Saheeh al-Bukhaari.See this:http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=10414

so some of the shia narrators were ''good muslims'...? But now all the shias are ''bad guys''.... Right..? What about abbad bin yaqoob in bukhari...? (this is a sensitive matter, so InshaAllah I'll discuss this topic in privately)...

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

would that it were true in your case. I know where you come from... Language of sh desai is known to us. Even sh taqi uthmani , sh tariq jamil, sh ibn taimyya or sh ibn qayyim.how they are addressed is not hidden....

You have a problem with Maulana A.S. Desai? I would suggest taking that up with him, then. I could give you his contact details, if you would like to do so?

[azc]

You have a problem with Maulana A.S. Desai? I would suggest taking that up with him, then. I could give you his contact details, if you would like to do so?

I see his fatwas though but don't like his language. My akabirin ra and even present ones (except a few, especially in Pakistan) don't use this language

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I dare say even kafirs hate things such as rapists and child molesters. If a kafir saw a rapist storming towards a child screaming, that he'd hate him.

Not necessarily. There are some of us who don't hate anyone at all. Imagine that.

Peace

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

so some of the shia narrators were ''good muslims'...? But now all the shias are ''bad guys''.... Right..? What about abbad bin yaqoob...? (this is a sensitive matter, so InshaAllah I'll discuss this topic in private section)...

If you would like clarification on this issue, pose this question of yours on that forum I sent you, and the members will answer, In Shaa Allaah.

والسلام

[sister herb]

We hate the disbelievers and we love the believers. We hate the disobedient Muslims according to their level of disobedience, and we love them for their level of of obedience.*‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Umar*(may Allaah be pleased with him) was going between Safaa and Marwah (making ‘Umrah) when a long-bearded man, a mu’ath-thin of the Haram, said to him, “O Abaa ‘Abdir-Rahmaan! I love you for the sake of Allaah!” He replied,*“But I hate you for the sake of Allaah!”*His companions blamed him for that, but he defended himself, saying: “He goes overboard in (calling) the athaan, and he takes money for it!” (Musannaf*of ‘Abdur-Razzaaq, 1/481) Al-Albaanee authenticated it in*as-Silsilah as-Saheehah*(1/104).

Source: http://www.bakkah.net/en/shaykh-ibn-...-of-allaah.htm

Thanks for the explanation of this hadith you posted before.

[azc]

If you would like clarification on this issue, pose this question of yours on that forum I sent you, and the members will answer, In Shaa Allaah.والسلام

:wa:invite them here.....so you failed to prove your claim....:sl:

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

:wa:invite them here.....so you failed to prove your claim....:sl:

I don't think so.

The Usool is:

البينة على المدعي

"The onus of proof is upon the claimant."

You have put forward a claim that Saheeh al-Bukhaari contains narrations from Rawaafidh. It is upon you to bring your proof for this claim. In a previous post, I have showed you that this claim is absolute Baatil. Also, one of the weakest arguments in the world is the one used by those who love the Shi`a, to try and make "unity" with them, they claim that Imaam al-Bukhaari narrated from them. First of all, he did not narrate from those who have the beliefs of the Rawaafidh Shi`a. He narrated from those whose Shi'ism extended to preferring Hadhrat `Ali رضي الله عنه over Hadhrat `Uthmaan رضي الله عنه. Secondly, let's say hypothetically that he did narrate from them: What does that prove? Does it affect the 14 century standing Fatwaa of the `Ulamaa of Ahlus Sunnah wal-Jamaa`ah, that the Shi`as are Kuffaar? The four A'immah themselves gave that Fatwaa, so how can the opinion of any person who comes after that affect it?

That is only done by people who hunt around for any excuse possible, like a drowning man clutching at straws.

The entire issue of Imaam al-Bukhaari and who he narrated from doesn't even feature. We prove from the Qur'aan itself that the Shi`as are Kaafirs. You don't even need to quote any `Aalim on that.

[azc]

I don't think so.The Usool is:البينة على المدعي"The onus of proof is upon the claimant."You have put forward a claim that Saheeh al-Bukhaari contains narrations from Rawaafidh. It is upon you to bring your proof for this claim. In a previous post, I have showed you that this claim is absolute Baatil. Also, one of the weakest arguments in the world is the one used by those who love the Shi`a, to try and make "unity" with them, they claim that Imaam al-Bukhaari narrated from them. First of all, he did not narrate from those who have the beliefs of the Rawaafidh Shi`a. He narrated from those whose Shi'ism extended to preferring Hadhrat `Ali رضي الله عنه over Hadhrat `Uthmaan رضي الله عنه. Secondly, let's say hypothetically that he did narrate from them: What does that prove? Does it affect the 14 century standing Fatwaa of the `Ulamaa of Ahlus Sunnah wal-Jamaa`ah, that the Shi`as are Kuffaar? The four A'immah themselves gave that Fatwaa, so how can the opinion of any person who comes after that affect it?That is only done by people who hunt around for any excuse possible, like a drowning man clutching at straws.The entire issue of Imaam al-Bukhaari and who he narrated from doesn't even feature. We prove from the Qur'aan itself that the Shi`as are Kaafirs. You don't even need to quote any `Aalim on that.

So you accept that shias' narrations are found in books (other than bukhari). It means you accept them being 'good and reliable Muslims'..? In bukhari several shia narrators are found and one of them is Abbad bin Yaqub...he was a ghali shia.

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

So you accept that shias' narrations are found in books (other than bukhari). It means you accept them being 'good and reliable Muslims'..? In bukhari several shia narrators are found and one of them is Abbad bin Yaqub...he was a ghali shia.

I wonder if you are actually reading the posts, bhai. I mentioned again and again that no Shi`as are quoted in Bukhaari. The ones you are referring to as Shi`as, they were Not Shi`as as is meant by the term when used by the `Ulamaa today. They were from Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa`ah. However, they felt that Hadhrat `Ali رضي الله عنه is better than Hadhrat `Uthmaan ibn `Affaan رضي الله عنه. I don't know why you are unable to understand this.

In the case of `Abbaad ibn Ya`qoob, Imaam al-Bukhaari Never ever narrated from except "Maqroonan"; meaning, a reliable person had also narrated it, then his narration would be brought as well, and the reason he was quoted in the first place is because Imaam al-Bukhaari did not regard him as being from the Rawaafidh Kuffaar. He did not belief in Tahreef-ul-Qur'aan, or that the Sahaabah are Kuffaar, or that the 12 Imaams created the universe, or any other of those Baatil Kufr beliefs of the Shi`as.

So no, I do not regard any Shi`a on the face of the earth as being a "good and reliable Muslim", and I never ever will. I will rather accept a narration from Shaytaan before I accept a narration from a Shi`a.

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

You are labouring hard to prove something which is baseless in Islaam. None of the reliable A'immah of Islaam ever called for unity with Shi`as.

[azc]

I wonder if you are actually reading the posts, bhai. I mentioned again and again that no Shi`as are quoted in Bukhaari. The ones you are referring to as Shi`as, they were Not Shi`as as is meant by the term when used by the `Ulamaa today. They were from Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa`ah. However, they felt that Hadhrat `Ali رضي الله عنه is better than Hadhrat `Uthmaan ibn `Affaan رضي الله عنه. I don't know why you are unable to understand this.In the case of `Abbaad ibn Ya`qoob, Imaam al-Bukhaari Never ever narrated from except "Maqroonan"; meaning, a reliable person had also narrated it, then his narration would be brought as well, and the reason he was quoted in the first place is because Imaam al-Bukhaari did not regard him as being from the Rawaafidh Kuffaar. He did not belief in Tahreef-ul-Qur'aan, or that the Sahaabah are Kuffaar, or that the 12 Imaams created the universe, or any other of those Baatil Kufr beliefs of the Shi`as. So no, I do not regard any Shi`a on the face of the earth as being a "good and reliable Muslim", and I never ever will. I will rather accept a narration from Shaytaan before I accept a narration from a Shi`a.

reality stands overtly...... Merely turning the face doesn't work

[azc]

You are labouring hard to prove something which is baseless in Islaam. None of the reliable A'immah of Islaam ever called for unity with Shi`as.

I know that unity with them is impossible, but at least this hatred shopping should be stopped. Indeed they are deviants but we are on haq then we should abstain from spreading hatred. They are also doing the same thing. There should be difference between us and them.

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

If you listen to the talk I posted of Shaykh Ahmad Jibril, he says inside there - and I'm paraphrasing here - "We didn't tell anyone to go out and start killing Shi`as at random." He didn't say that. We said - and we make it very clear - that we will Never ever have unity with them. We don't want unity with them. Ask any normal man, "If someone calls your mother a prostitute, will you be friends with him?" He'll tell you, "Never ever. If someone said something like that, I'd {insert threat here}." That's a fact. He doesn't want friendship with someone who refers to his mother as a prostitute. So how can any Muslim want friendship with a Shi`a when that is what they say about the Mother of the Believers, Hadhrat `Aa'ishah رضي الله عنها? The wife of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم? It is a compounded insult, because if the wife of a man is a prostitute, then by him being married to her, he is a Dayyooth (cuckold). How can you EVER have friendship or unity with Shi`as? Never ever. We hate them. We despite them. To hate and despise them is good, because they hate and despite Allaah Ta`aalaa, and Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم, and the Sahaabah.

This concept of: "Love all, hate none." Is not part of Islaam. It was invented by the likes of Gandhi. Islaam never taught that. The issue of "Al-Bughdhu fillaah" (Hating for the Sake of Allaah) is linked to Tawheed itself. It is taught in the very first lessons on Tawheed, along with al-Walaa wal-Baraa (Alliance and Disavowal). These are fundamental aspects of Islaam.

Nabi Ibraaheem عليه السلام said to the Mushrikeen when they refused to accept Tawheed:

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَآءُ مِنْكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاءُ أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ

"There is indeed an excellent example for you in Ibraaheem and those with him, when they said to their people: "Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allaah; we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you enmity and hatred forever until you believe in Allaah Alone..." [Soorah al-Mumtahinah, 60:4]

What is this then?? What happened to "Love all, hate none"??

"Love all, hate none" has never been something any Nabi ever propagated.

Now, the funny thing is that despite having an absolutely clear-cut Aayat like this, the modernist "Mozlems" will still pull their hair and teeth out trying to interpret it to mean something - Anything - other than what it actually means and is saying. But what's funnier than that is that no Kaafir who reads their excuses falls for it. The Kuffaar who read the apologies of these apologists mock them for it and know very well that they're talking trash. The Aayaat are crystal clear. No matter how hard they try to make Islaam into a pacifist, Gandhi religion, it is not and will never be.

والسلام

[azc]

Where did I say to love deviants.? Several times I've written that I dislike them. Where is your mind while reading my posts...? I simply say that we must not listen to such lectures which increase the intensity of hatred...... If you love hatred... Then keep it on as shia deviants do... I've no sympathy for them at all

[Serinity]

If you listen to the talk I posted of Shaykh Ahmad Jibril, he says inside there - and I'm paraphrasing here - "We didn't tell anyone to go out and start killing Shi`as at random." He didn't say that. We said - and we make it very clear - that we will Never ever have unity with them. We don't want unity with them. Ask any normal man, "If someone calls your mother a prostitute, will you be friends with him?" He'll tell you, "Never ever. If someone said something like that, I'd {insert threat here}." That's a fact. He doesn't want friendship with someone who refers to his mother as a prostitute. So how can any Muslim want friendship with a Shi`a when that is what they say about the Mother of the Believers, Hadhrat `Aa'ishah رضي الله عنها? The wife of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم? It is a compounded insult, because if the wife of a man is a prostitute, then by him being married to her, he is a Dayyooth (cuckold). How can you EVER have friendship or unity with Shi`as? Never ever. We hate them. We despite them. To hate and despise them is good, because they hate and despite Allaah Ta`aalaa, and Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم, and the Sahaabah.

This concept of: "Love all, hate none." Is not part of Islaam. It was invented by the likes of Gandhi. Islaam never taught that. The issue of "Al-Bughdhu fillaah" (Hating for the Sake of Allaah) is linked to Tawheed itself. It is taught in the very first lessons on Tawheed, along with al-Walaa wal-Baraa (Alliance and Disavowal). These are fundamental aspects of Islaam.

Nabi Ibraaheem عليه السلام said to the Mushrikeen when they refused to accept Tawheed:

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَآءُ مِنْكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاءُ أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ

"There is indeed an excellent example for you in Ibraaheem and those with him, when they said to their people: "Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allaah; we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you enmity and hatred forever until you believe in Allaah Alone..." [Soorah al-Mumtahinah, 60:4]

What is this then?? What happened to "Love all, hate none"??

"Love all, hate none" has never been something any Nabi ever propagated.

Now, the funny thing is that despite having an absolutely clear-cut Aayat like this, the modernist "Mozlems" will still pull their hair and teeth out trying to interpret it to mean something - Anything - other than what it actually means and is saying. But what's funnier than that is that no Kaafir who reads their excuses falls for it. The Kuffaar who read the apologies of these apologists mock them for it and know very well that they're talking trash. The Aayaat are crystal clear. No matter how hard they try to make Islaam into a pacifist, Gandhi religion, it is not and will never be.

والسلام

:salam:

I want to ask a question in regards to Hating for the Sake of Allah. I have no doubt that it is good for us, to protect us by having enmity towards it (you will never ever fall for something you have extreme enmity for)

But what about the average kafir? I hate the shias, because of their beliefs. But what about the normal kafir joe?

I mean, correct me if i am wrong:

Show enmity and hatred towards those who show hatred - do not want to listen or change.

my hatred for someone is dependent upon their level of kufr, and enmity towards Islam. So an militant kafir who wants to go to war against Islam, I hate more, than the average joe.

However, there are kafirs where I hate their stance and kufr, but as for their personality - I do not hate, nor do I love. If it goes against Islamic standards, I dislike it, but I don't hate them completely. I hate someone based on their disobedience, and kufr. As for the kufr, I hate it completely, however, the person himself? depends on how engrossed in Kufr he is.

Say Abu Talib (the uncle of The Prophet Muhammad SAW) I don't hate him, but I dislike and hate that he didn't join Islam. as opposed to Abu Lahab, whom I hate altogether, completely.

Is my approach Islamic?

[Zeal]

@azc

I was just thinking about the comment you made on how hard it is and this hadith came to mind:

On the authority of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudree (ra) who said:

*

I heard the Messenger of Allah (saw) say, “Whoso- ever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart — and that is the weakest of faith.”

[Muslim]

So the least we should do is hate/oppose it in our heart, if we have any faith

Allahu'alam

g".

[noraina]

Assalamu alaykum,

I can't say I've ever agreed with the beliefs of Shia Muslims, and nor do I particularly like some of their practices, but there is a vast difference between warning others of falling into wrongdoing and then spreading hatred regarding that group.

Even with non-believers, we do not hate them, yes, we hate their sin and their disbelief, but we don't hate them as individuals. Whilst someone is alive, up until they take their last breath, they have a chance of turning to the right path and accepting Islam. By hating them and wanting nothing to do with them, we're turning them away from the deen, and decreasing their chances of coming to the right path.

In a community, we heard of someone who was Shia who came to Sunni Islam. They spent their whole lives living with everyone, and yes they did have some heated debates and arguments, but on the whole they were treated with respect and eventually came to the haqq. Alhamdulillah. Now if they'd been turned away or shunned by the community, this would never have happened.

[islamdude]

Assalamu alaykum,

I can't say I've ever agreed with the beliefs of Shia Muslims, and nor do I particularly like some of their practices, but there is a vast difference between warning others of falling into wrongdoing and then spreading hatred regarding that group.

Even with non-believers, we do not hate them, yes, we hate their sin and their disbelief, but we don't hate them as individuals. Whilst someone is alive, up until they take their last breath, they have a chance of turning to the right path and accepting Islam. By hating them and wanting nothing to do with them, we're turning them away from the deen, and decreasing their chances of coming to the right path.

In a community, we heard of someone who was Shia who came to Sunni Islam. They spent their whole lives living with everyone, and yes they did have some heated debates and arguments, but on the whole they were treated with respect and eventually came to the haqq. Alhamdulillah. Now if they'd been turned away or shunned by the community, this would never have happened.

Actually we should hate them because of their evil. We should hate those who commit evil, and love those who do good.

Disbelief in Allah is greater sin than murder.

[sister herb]

I agree with sis noraina. Wise words sister but unfortunately I don´t see end for this kind of discussions. As far as they warn us about wrong ways to believe its ok but when it turns to simple racism against some group of individuals, it only spreads hate and increses hate.

[islamdude]

I agree with sis noraina. Wise words sister but unfortunately I don´t see end for this kind of discussions. As far as they warn us about wrong ways to believe its ok but when it turns to simple racism against some group of individuals, it only spreads hate and increses hate.

If someone commits adultery with your own mother...you would not hate that person? Really?

[islamdude]

I agree with sis noraina. Wise words sister but unfortunately I don´t see end for this kind of discussions. As far as they warn us about wrong ways to believe its ok but when it turns to simple racism against some group of individuals, it only spreads hate and increses hate.

How can someone be a racist if he hates evil people?

There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah. Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination. 60:4

Why are you ignoring this verse?

So if someone insults Islam, we should are supposed to love him according to you?

[sister herb]

If someone commits adultery with your own mother...you would not hate that person? Really?

What this matter has to do with this thread anyways? My mother is 84 years old Christian lady and I have no idea if she has ever committed adultery with anyone. If yes, hers sexual life is hers private matter and it doesn´t belongs to me at all and definitely not to you in this discussion. Maybe we can leave my mother out from kind of discussion.

[azc]

@azc I was just thinking about the comment you made on how hard it is and this hadith came to mind:On the authority of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudree (ra) who said:*I heard the Messenger of Allah (saw) say, “Whoso- ever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart — and that is the weakest of faith.”[Muslim]So the least we should do is hate/oppose it in our heart, if we have any faithAllahu'alam

I hate sin, not the sinner....

[sister herb]

How can someone be a racist if he hates evil people?

Hating evil people is one thing. Spreading hate against ordinary individuals and claiming that all members of some group are automaticly same, similar and collectivily guilty for crimes which some others from their group have done, is racism.

[Scimitar]

I'll just leave this here:

Qur'an 49:13

Scimi

[islamdude]

What this matter has to do with this thread anyways? My mother is 84 years old Christian lady and I have no idea if she has ever committed adultery with anyone. If yes, hers sexual life is hers private matter and it doesn´t belongs to me at all and definitely not to you in this discussion. Maybe we can leave my mother out from kind of discussion.

I am not insulting your mom, I just gave you an example.

My mom is a Christian too as I am a convert. May Allah guide both, your and my mom, ameen :)

I hate sin, not the sinner....

That's what Christians would say, but trust me they do hate. Aren't you a hypocrite now?

[Scimitar]

That's what Christians would say, but trust me they do hate. Aren't you a hypocrite now?

Do they hate us more than other groups?

Qur'an 5:82

Scimi

[islamdude]

Hating evil people is one thing. Spreading hate against ordinary individuals and claiming that all members of some group are automaticly same, similar and collectivily guilty for crimes which some others from their group have done, is racism.

Those who worship others than Allah are innocent?

May Allah guide you. You are misguided

[Scimitar]

May Allah guide you. You are misguided

I don't think she is misguided, rather, you are reading black and white while she is showing you a colouring book - if the analogy goes over your head, the shortcoming is yours, not hers nor mine.

So you are the who is left wanting.

Also... You missed one of my posts, which I replied to you in.

Scimi

[islamdude]

I don't think she is misguided, rather, you are reading black and white while she is showing you a colouring book - if the analogy goes over your head, the shortcoming is yours, not hers nor mine.

So you are the who is left wanting.

Also... You missed one of my posts, which I replied to you in.

Scimi

Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not, and you believe in all the Scriptures [i.e. you believe in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), while they disbelieve in your Book, the Qur’aan]. And when they meet you, they say, ‘We believe.’ But when they are alone, they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage. Say: ‘Perish in your rage. Certainly, Allaah knows what is in the breasts (all the secrets).’ 3:119

“Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) till you follow their religion. Say: ‘Verily, the Guidance of Allaah (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) that is the (only) Guidance.’ And if you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) were to follow their (Jews and Christians) desires after what you have received of Knowledge (i.e. the Qur’aan), then you would have against Allaah neither any Wali (protector or guardian) nor any helper” 2:120

This is my last reply to you.

Peace

[Serinity]

:salam:

I understand to hate kufr and the people of kufr according to their kufr.

But say my teachers, they are non muslims, they teach me, if I was to carry hatred towards them, I would not be where I am today.

When confronting the kuffar, we should hate their kufr, but how can we hate them, when we may not even know them? It just sounds presumptuous to hate someone based on their appearances and their beliefs. I go case by case.

We shouldn't hate every kafir, we hate their kufr, and according to their level of disobedience.

This premise of hating all kafirs just because they are kafirs lies on the premise that ALL kafirs are EQUALLY aware and fully aware of what they are doing, completely. To confront people like that, is presumptuous. Since afaik it is not true.

Allahu alam.

[azc]

I am not insulting your mom, I just gave you an example. My mom is a Christian too as I am a convert. May Allah guide both, your and my mom, ameen :)That's what Christians would say, but trust me they do hate. Aren't you a hypocrite now?

brother, don't address any Muslim as 'hypocrite'... Only Allah swt knows what is in our heart...

[Scimitar]

Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not, and you believe in all the Scriptures [i.e. you believe in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), while they disbelieve in your Book, the Qur’aan]. And when they meet you, they say, ‘We believe.’ But when they are alone, they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage. Say: ‘Perish in your rage. Certainly, Allaah knows what is in the breasts (all the secrets).’ 3:119

“Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) till you follow their religion. Say: ‘Verily, the Guidance of Allaah (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) that is the (only) Guidance.’ And if you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) were to follow their (Jews and Christians) desires after what you have received of Knowledge (i.e. the Qur’aan), then you would have against Allaah neither any Wali (protector or guardian) nor any helper” 2:120

This is my last reply to you.

Peace

You posted a Madni ayah. Speaking of what? what is the context? please do share Mr Hubris.

Now.... do something else - Tell me what movement this ayah speaks of: 5:51

Zionism. Clearly. The unholy alliance which ignores the theological nemesis of Judaism vs Trinitarian Christianity to foment an "alliance" in order to do what? Take Jerusalem in the name of a politically aligned plan which has fruited in the modern age.

The ayah speaks specifically of Jews and Christians who are friends to each other - they have no reason to be friends because they are natural enemies to each other. The Jews boast they killed Jesus pbuh - the Christians lament that the Jews killed Jesus pbuh - how can these two ever be friends? Unless, it's an alliance based on political factors and ignores the most important thing - they are natural enemies to each other?

SO yes, do define for me the proper context of the ayah you posted, something tells me you don't have a clue mate.

Most Christians are not Zionists, but majority Jewry is.

Scimi

[islamdude]

Madni ayah. Speaking of what? what is the context? please do share Mr Hubris.

Tell me what movement this ayah speaks of: 5:51

Zionism. Clearly. The unholy alliance which ignores the theological nemesis of Judaism vs Trinitarian Christianity to foment an "alliance" in order to do what? Take Jerusalem in the name of a politically aligned plan which has fruited in the modern age.

The ayah speaks specifically of Jews and Christians who are friends to each other - they have no reason to be friends because they are natural enemies to each other. The Jews boast they killed Jesus pbuh - the Christians lament that the Jews killed Jesus pbuh - how can these two ever be friends? Unless, it's an alliance based on political factors and ignores the most important thing - they are natural enemies to each other?

SO yes, do define for me the proper context of the ayah you posted, something tells me you don't have a clue mate.

Most Christians are not Zionists, but majority Jewry is.

Scimi

So you know better than Islamqa? Are you a schoolar or what?

https://islamqa.info/en/72208

[Scimitar]

And where does it tell us to make them our enemy?

I would rather keep peace instead of incite hatred.

The Quran is not a polarised revelation, it has nuanced contexts which have to be considered, pondered and thought about at length - explanations from scholars help, but they do not always answer satisfatorily.

Please find me the verse.

Nearest in love to the believer are those who call themselves Christian because among them are priests and monks... why do you ignore this?

I sit with a priest in the library sometimes, we discuss things - religion mainly, not a bad thing at all. In fact, it is through interaction that we can show them that their theology does not appeal to common sense. Slowly.

As was done last year on another forum where 7 members converted to Islam over 8 months, quite a few being Christian.

If I was to treat them as my enemy because of some wayward misinterpretation of a scholars explanation of ayat taken from the Qur'an, posted online in English, translated from Arabic - I'd be not doing my intellect any justice.

Why do you not do yours any justice? Serious question

Scimi

[islamdude]

And where does it tell us to make them our enemy?

Please find me the verse.

LOL

Scimi

Brother we love and hate for the sake of Allah. Thats called al wala wal bara.

“O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth”[al-Mumtahanah 60:1]
But that does not mean that we cannot be kind to them.

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. 60:8

Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided. 16:125

We love good people, and hate evil people. Simple as that :)

[Scimitar]

Some of you seem to think that just because you don't agree with anothers theology, you have to hate them - no you don't. You pity them instead. And hope they can be guided. And show them what a Muslim is - so they can have something to aspire towards, because their own deen is lacking in that way.

Not, "they are my enemy aaarrrrgghhhh" sheesh.

Some sects, from all faiths, are beyond help though - my advice is, steer clear of any interaction with them, at all. They are beyond reason. Leave them to Allah. Unless they make war on you, then defend yourselves in the way of Allah.

If you are using the web, and sitting comfortably, having your three meals a day and your electricity, and all that good stuff, in relative security, you have no right to foster such openly voiced opinions full of hatred, Allah has been merciful to you - can you not appreciate that?

Dang.

Scimi

[Scimitar]

Brother we love and hate for the sake of Allah. Thats called al wala wal bara.

“O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists) as friends, showing affection towards them, while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth”[al-Mumtahanah 60:1]
But that does not mean that we cannot be kind to them.

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. 60:8

Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided. 16:125

We love good people, and hate evil people. Simple as that :)

I have my al wala al bara, i don't go shouting about it though because that my bro - if fitan... that - is what you do not understand.

None of you do.

Scimi

[Scimitar]

Let me ask you a question.

Are you satisfied with Free Speech laws in the west?

You know? the ones which allow derogatory movies and hate speech to be directed towards us Muslims? Do you think it is fair?

No. Obviously not.

So please tell me how throwing hate speech out here against Christians and Jews is helping your case.

Kinda makes people like you look rather hypocritical doesn't it?

As for Jesus pbuh, reportedly from the Nasari creed, they claim during an event when an adulteress was about to be stoned, he said "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" - none obliged.

Stop throwing stones, you aint perfect bro,

Scimi

[noraina]

Assalamu alaykum,

Yes, loving and hating for the sake of Allah swt. That term is used so loosely these days and taken way out of context.

We hate what Allah swt has forbidden, and love what He commands. So we hate misguidance, and love guidance.

We don't hate those who are misguided, because as Muslims it is our duty to invite and give dawah to those who do not have the beautiful gift of guidance. Alhamdulillah. Because someone is the way they are now, doesn't give anyone the right to give them a lifetime of condemnation and vehemence - certainly point out the error in their theology or beliefs if you're so inclined, but describing them as the 'enemy' and turning away from them never did anyone ever good. As if anyone who might be reading this specific thread now is going to get a particularly positive impression of Muslims anyway.

I also get the impression some people feel pressurised to 'hate' those who differ from them. I suffered from a similar phase myself when anyone who had a slightly differing opinion used to almost upset me and I would get wound up trying to explain to them what was right. Explain and teach, certainly, and if they are willing to open their hearts and listen, alhamdulillah. If they don't, and they're doing nothing to you, it is between them and Allah swt.

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

[islamdude]

Assalamu alaykum,

Yes, loving and hating for the sake of Allah swt. That term is used so loosely these days and taken way out of context.

We hate what Allah swt has forbidden, and love what He commands. So we hate misguidance, and love guidance.

We don't hate those who are misguided, because as Muslims it is our duty to invite and give dawah to those who do not have the beautiful gift of guidance. Alhamdulillah. Because someone is the way they are now, doesn't give anyone the right to give them a lifetime of condemnation and vehemence - certainly point out the error in their theology or beliefs if you're so inclined, but describing them as the 'enemy' and turning away from them never did anyone ever good. As if anyone who might be reading this specific thread now is going to get a particularly positive impression of Muslims anyway.

I also get the impression some people feel pressurised to 'hate' those who differ from them. I suffered from a similar phase myself when anyone who had a slightly differing opinion used to almost upset me and I would get wound up trying to explain to them what was right. Explain and teach, certainly, and if they are willing to open their hearts and listen, alhamdulillah. If they don't, and they're doing nothing to you, it is between them and Allah swt.

Woow you are very smart. Are you a schoolar or?

[islamdude]

Assalamu alaykum,

Yes, loving and hating for the sake of Allah swt. That term is used so loosely these days and taken way out of context.

We hate what Allah swt has forbidden, and love what He commands. So we hate misguidance, and love guidance.

We don't hate those who are misguided, because as Muslims it is our duty to invite and give dawah to those who do not have the beautiful gift of guidance. Alhamdulillah. Because someone is the way they are now, doesn't give anyone the right to give them a lifetime of condemnation and vehemence - certainly point out the error in their theology or beliefs if you're so inclined, but describing them as the 'enemy' and turning away from them never did anyone ever good. As if anyone who might be reading this specific thread now is going to get a particularly positive impression of Muslims anyway.

I also get the impression some people feel pressurised to 'hate' those who differ from them. I suffered from a similar phase myself when anyone who had a slightly differing opinion used to almost upset me and I would get wound up trying to explain to them what was right. Explain and teach, certainly, and if they are willing to open their hearts and listen, alhamdulillah. If they don't, and they're doing nothing to you, it is between them and Allah swt.

Sister you should not talk about the deen without knowledge.

And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those [one] will be questioned. 17:36

"Verily, it is indeed Satan that makes you do evil and say things about Allah (or His deen) of which you have no proper knowledge." Al-Baqarah 2:169

[noraina]

Woow you are very smart. Are you a schoolar or?

I really don't appreciate sarcasm.

Sister you should not talk about the deen without knowledge.

And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart - about all those [one] will be questioned. 17:36"Verily, it is indeed Satan that makes you do evil and say things about Allah (or His deen) of which you have no proper knowledge." Al-Baqarah 2:169

:jz: for the reminder brother, this applies to all of us inshaAllah.

[sister herb]

What scares me is some people whose use some religion as justify their hate against other people they don´t know at all but whose belong to some other group (religion or nation or race). It´s only a small step when some others may also justify the violence against others by the same arguments. And it has already happend. Many many times.

[islamdude]

I really don't appreciate sarcasm.



:jz: for the reminder brother, this applies to all of us inshaAllah.

Also sister you should read what great schoolar Salih Al Fawzan said about that http://www.bakkah.net/en/shaykh-saal...-of-allaah.htm

May Allah guide us all, ameen :)

[azc]

Also sister you should read what great schoolar Salih Al Fawzan said about that http://www.bakkah.net/en/shaykh-saal...-of-allaah.htmMay Allah guide us all, ameen :)

why these scholars don't ask their rulers to break the ties of friendship with non Muslim countries. Why all fatwas are applied on common Muslims ONLY...?

[Serinity]

I am prob doing it wrong then, because every time I try to implement Al barraa, I get unfocused, and can barely learn anything. I hate shias as a group, I hate their beliefs - because I know the reason to that.

I hate kufr, and I do not want kufr to win, nor am I pleased with kufr laws. I want shariah.

I take distance and hate the ways of kuffar, but as for some kuffar friends I have. If I was to carry hatred towards them, I'd prob turn them away. I hate their ways, but I do not hate them personally, this does not mean I do not hate their ways of kufr - I do. Unless they are clearly against Islam, I won't hate them personally.

Am I wrong? :-/ If I think too much about this, I will prob lose focus again....

Allahu alam.

[islamdude]

I am prob doing it wrong then, because every time I try to implement Al barraa, I get unfocused, and can barely learn anything. I hate shias as a group, I hate their beliefs - because I know the reason to that.

I hate kufr, and I do not want kufr to win, nor am I pleased with kufr laws. I want shariah.

I take distance and hate the ways of kuffar, but as for some kuffar friends I have. If I was to carry hatred towards them, I'd prob turn them away. I hate their ways, but I do not hate them personally, this does not mean I do not hate their ways of kufr - I do. Unless they are clearly against Islam, I won't hate them personally.

Am I wrong? :-/ If I think too much about this, I will prob lose focus again....

Allahu alam.

You should hate them because of their disbelief.

Brother I gave you proofs, and if thats not enough for you than I dont know what else to say.

That's my last reply to this thread. Have a good night :)

[Serinity]

You should hate them because of their disbelief.

Brother I gave you proofs, and if thats not enough for you than I dont know what else to say.

That's my last reply to this thread. Have a good night :)

Idk man, I hate shias because I see a reason to do that. But I can not hate someone I don't know......... (personally) Because how can I hate someone I haven't even met or known? It just sounds judgmental to me. Astaghfirgullah.

Cuz then I'd have to hate my own family, and I can't do that. They don't pray.

This is a case by case. I will show compassion, hatred, love, etc. According to what situation it is. Say the kuffar who bomb Syria without regret, I hate them and those who cover and support that. But the average kafir, just no.

I just feel sick and confused to hate someone like that. I can't do it.

By that logic, the Prophet :saws: should have hated his Uncle, abu Talib, but we all know he :saws: loved him. So what about that?? Abu Talib was a kafir, yet The Prophet :saws: loved him. Abu Talib Didn't show any animosity towards Islam.

Abu Talib helped the Prophet :saws: etc. And the deen even more so than many Muslims today, afaik.

may Allah help me understand His deen. Ameen.

[Zeal]

An Important point is that I think you can love and hate at the same time.


loving one's parents, brothers, sisters and other family members + loving the wife are from the natural love, that is permissable.
But at the same time one hates their kufr, the kufr that they are upon, and one tries his best to call them to islam.

--------------------------------------
Taken from: http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=949&ln=eng


Praise be to Allaah.
Ibn Al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said regarding this matter:

There are four kinds of love, which we must differentiate between, and those who go astray do so because they do not make this distinction. The first of them is love of Allaah, but this alone is not sufficient to save a person from the punishment of Allaah and to earn him His reward. The Mushrikeen, worshippers of the cross, Jews and others all love Allaah. The second is love of that which Allaah loves. This is what brings a person into Islam and out of Kufr. The most beloved of people to Allaah is the one who is most correct and most devoted in this kind of love. The third kind is love for the sake of Allaah, which is one of the essentials of loving that which Allaah loves. A person’s love of that which Allaah loves cannot be complete until he also loves for the sake of Allaah. The fourth is love for something alongside Allaah, and this love has to do with shirk. Everyone who loves things alongside Allaah but not for the sake of Allaah has taken that thing as a rival to Allaah. This is the love of the Mushrikeen. There remains a fifth kind of love which has nothing to do with our topic; this is the natural love which is a person’s inclination towards that which suits his nature, such as the love of a thirsty person for water or of a hungry person for food, or the love of sleep, or of one’s wife and children. There is nothing wrong with this unless it distracts a person from remembering Allaah and keeps him from loving Him. Allaah says (interpretation of the meanings):
“O you who believe! Let not your properties or your children divert you from the remembrance of Allaah” [al-Munaafiqoon 63:9]
“Men whom neither trade nor sale (business) diverts from the remembrance of Allaah” [al-Noor 24:37]
(Al-Jawaab al-Kaafi, 1/134)
And he said (may Allaah have mercy on him):
The difference between loving for the sake of Allaah and loving something alongside Allaah is one of the most important distinctions. Everyone needs to make this distinction and is indeed obliged to do so. Loving for the sake of Allaah is a sign of the perfection of faith, but loving something alongside Allaah is the essence of shirk. The difference between them is that a person’s love for the sake of Allaah is connected to his love of Allaah; if this love becomes strong in his heart, this love dictates that he will love that which Allaah loves. If he loves that which his Lord loves and he loves those who are the friends of Allaah, this is love for the sake of Allaah. So he loves His Messengers, Prophets, angels and close friends because Allaah loves them, and he hates those who hate them because Allaah hates those people. The sign of the love and hatred for the sake of Allaah is that his hatred for the one whom Allaah hates will not turn into love merely because that person treats him kindly, does him a service or meets some need he has; and his love for those whom Allaah loves will not turn to hatred simply because that person does something that upsets or hurts him, whether it is done by mistake or deliberately, in obedience to Allaah or because the person feels that he has a duty to do it for some reason, or because the person is a wrongdoer who may yet give up his wrongdoing and repent. The entire religion revolves around four principles: love and hatred, and stemming from them, action and abstinence. The person whose love and hatred, action and abstinence, are all for the sake of Allaah, has perfected his faith so that when he loves, he loves for the sake of Allaah, when he hates, he hates for the sake of Allaah, when he does something, he does it for the sake of Allaah, and when he abstains from something, he abstains for the sake of Allaah. To the extent that he is lacking in these four categories, he is lacking in faith and commitment to religion. This is in contrast to the love of things alongside Allaah, which is of two types. One is diametrically opposed to the principle of Tawheed and is shirk; the other is opposed to perfection of sincerity and love towards Allaah, but does not put a person beyond the pale of Islam.*
The first kind is like the love of the Mushrikeen for their idols and gods. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And of mankind are some who take (for worship) others besides Allaah as rivals (to Allaah). They love them as they love Allaah” [al-Baqarah 2:165]

These Mushrikeen love their idols and gods alongside Allaah as they love Allaah. This love and devotion is accompanied by fear, hope, worship and supplication. This love is pure Shirk which Allaah does not forgive. Faith cannot be perfected unless a person regards these idols as enemies and hates them intensely, and hates the people who worship them, and regards them as enemies and strives against them. This is the message with which Allaah sent all His Messengers and revealed all His Books. He created Hell for the people of shirk who love these rivals, and He created Paradise for those who strive against them and take them as enemies for His sake and to earn His Pleasure. Anybody who worships anything from the vicinity of the Throne to the lowest depths of the earth and takes a god and a supporter besides Allaah and associates another beings in worship with Him, will be disowned by the object of his worship when he is most in need of it [i.e., on the Day of Judgement].

The second kind is love for the things which Allaah has made attractive to people, such as women, children, gold, silver, branded beautiful horses, cattle and well-tilled land. People love them with a kind of desire, like the love of the hungry person for food and the thirsty person for water. This love is of three kinds. If a person loves them for the sake of Allaah and as a means of obeying Allaah, he will be rewarded for that; it will be counted as a part of love for the sake of Allaah and a means of reaching Him, and he will still find enjoyment in them. This is how the best of creation [i.e. the Prophet http://www.islamqa.com/images/saws.gif (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] was, to whom women and perfume were made dear in this world, and his love for them helped him to love Allaah more and to convey His Message and fulfil His commands. If a person loves them because they suit his nature and his own desires, but he does not give them preference over that which Allaah loves and is pleased with, and he gets them because of his natural inclination, then they come under the heading of things which are permissible, and he will not be punished for that, but his love of Allaah and for the sake of Allaah will be lacking somewhat. If his sole purpose in life is to get these things, and he gives priority to that over that which Allaah loves and is pleased with, then he is wronging himself and following his own desires.
The first is the love of al-Saabiqoon (those who are foremost in Islam); the second is the love of al-muqtasidoon (those who are average) and the third is the love of al-zaalimoon (the wrongdoers).
Al-Rooh by Ibn al-Qayyim, 1/254.

[Zeal]

What scares me is some people whose use some religion as justify their hate against other people they don´t know at all but whose belong to some other group (religion or nation or race). It´s only a small step when some others may also justify the violence against others by the same arguments. And it has already happend. Many many times.

We hate the disbelievers and we love the believers. We hate the disobedient Muslims according to their level of disobedience, and we love them for their level of of obedience.*‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Umar*(may Allaah be pleased with him) was going between Safaa and Marwah (making ‘Umrah) when a long-bearded man, a mu’ath-thin of the Haram, said to him, “O Abaa ‘Abdir-Rahmaan! I love you for the sake of Allaah!” He replied,*“But I hate you for the sake of Allaah!”*His companions blamed him for that, but he defended himself, saying: “He goes overboard in (calling) the athaan, and he takes money for it!” (Musannaf*of ‘Abdur-Razzaaq, 1/481) Al-Albaanee authenticated it in*as-Silsilah as-Saheehah*(1/104).


I don't mean to argue but

Can you please tell me how you put your head around this then, If we shouldn't hate kuffar?


I think that you can love and hate someone at the same time as per the proof shown in the above post.


Also, I am aware that people can take these concepts to extremes and it can be a horrible thing but also we should be concerned about making these things impact us so that we go on the total opposite side of their extremism(not that I think you are) rather we should have moderation




إِنَّ لِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ طَرَفَيْنِ وَوَسَطًا فَإِذَا أَمْسَكْتَ بِأَحَدِ الطَّرَفَيْنِ مَالَ الآخَرُ وَإِذَا أَمْسَكْتَ بِالْوَسَطِ اعْتَدَلَ الطَّرَفَانِ ثُمَّ قَالَ عَلَيْكُمْ بِالأَوْسَطِ مِنَ الأَشْيَاءِ

Verily, everything has two ends and a middle. If you hold one of the ends, the other will be skewed. If you hold the middle, the two ends will be balanced. You must seek the middle ground in all things.

Source:*Hilyat Al-Awliya 4818

[Serinity]

bro, I will never love someone like I Love Allah.

i don't love kuffar for their kufr, i hate them for that. That does not mean I hate them completely. I just hate that they disbelieve.

Just like one may hate his brother because he lies a lot. If ya get me.

It is like this:

"What do you hate about the kuffar?"

Answer: their kufr, and their kufr ways. But when confronting kuffar, we don't know, we shouldn't confront them with preconcieved hatred and judgment.

Allahu alam.

[azc]

bro, I will never love someone like I Love Allah. i don't love kuffar for their kufr, i hate them for that. That does not mean I hate them completely. I just hate that they disbelieve. Just like one may hate his brother because he lies a lot. If ya get me.It is like this:"What do you hate about the kuffar?"Answer: their kufr, and their kufr ways. But when confronting kuffar, we don't know, we shouldn't confront them with preconcieved hatred and judgment. Allahu alam.

let alone kuffar, Muslims are hating each other because they differ in sectarian ideology. Mainly scholars of their respective sects are selling hatred packages and their blind followers take interest in hatred shopping

[Born_Believer]

We hate the disbelievers and we love the believers. We hate the disobedient Muslims according to their level of disobedience, and we love them for their level of of obedience.*‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Umar*(may Allaah be pleased with him) was going between Safaa and Marwah (making ‘Umrah) when a long-bearded man, a mu’ath-thin of the Haram, said to him, “O Abaa ‘Abdir-Rahmaan! I love you for the sake of Allaah!” He replied,*“But I hate you for the sake of Allaah!”*His companions blamed him for that, but he defended himself, saying: “He goes overboard in (calling) the athaan, and he takes money for it!” (Musannaf*of ‘Abdur-Razzaaq, 1/481) Al-Albaanee authenticated it in*as-Silsilah as-Saheehah*(1/104).


I don't mean to argue but

Can you please tell me how you put your head around this then, If we shouldn't hate kuffar?


I think that you can love and hate someone at the same time as per the proof shown in the above post.


Also, I am aware that people can take these concepts to extremes and it can be a horrible thing but also we should be concerned about making these things impact us so that we go on the total opposite side of their extremism(not that I think you are) rather we should have moderation




إِنَّ لِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ طَرَفَيْنِ وَوَسَطًا فَإِذَا أَمْسَكْتَ بِأَحَدِ الطَّرَفَيْنِ مَالَ الآخَرُ وَإِذَا أَمْسَكْتَ بِالْوَسَطِ اعْتَدَلَ الطَّرَفَانِ ثُمَّ قَالَ عَلَيْكُمْ بِالأَوْسَطِ مِنَ الأَشْيَاءِ

Verily, everything has two ends and a middle. If you hold one of the ends, the other will be skewed. If you hold the middle, the two ends will be balanced. You must seek the middle ground in all things.

Source:*Hilyat Al-Awliya 4818

You have answered your own question. Always take the middle ground, it is the teachings of our Prophet PBUH. That is not to say we accept kufr but we can not and should not be harsh with them or behave towards them like they are animals and we are superior. We hate their acts of kufr, of course we do. I for one hate that many if not all of the kafir in my age group love drinking, its a disgusting habit, one that affects them and society (billions of pounds to the British government to combat alcohol related diseases and issues) but that does not mean I will refuse to speak to them or treat them like human beings.

Ultimately, how I behave to them and the kindnesses and manners I show (Prophet Muhammad PBUH said, "I have been sent down to you to perfect your manners) may turn them towards Islam. Were many of the sahabah before Islam not ignorant? Were they not alcoholics and killers of children? Were they not low before Allah raised them up?

So do not take someone kufar as a means of hating that person in all conditions, because one day their Islam may be superior to yours.

btw I have not watched the video but I will when I get a bit more time.

[Zeal]

You have answered your own question. Always take the middle ground, it is the teachings of our Prophet PBUH. That is not to say we accept kufr but we can not and should not be harsh with them or behave towards them like they are animals and we are superior. We hate their acts of kufr, of course we do. I for one hate that many if not all of the kafir in my age group love drinking, its a disgusting habit, one that affects them and society (billions of pounds to the British government to combat alcohol related diseases and issues) but that does not mean I will refuse to speak to them or treat them like human beings.

Ultimately, how I behave to them and the kindnesses and manners I show (Prophet Muhammad PBUH said, "I have been sent down to you to perfect your manners) may turn them towards Islam. Were many of the sahabah before Islam not ignorant? Were they not alcoholics and killers of children? Were they not low before Allah raised them up?

So do not take someone kufar as a means of hating that person in all conditions, because one day their Islam may be superior to yours.

btw I have not watched the video but I will when I get a bit more time.

I think people not watching the video and jumping to conclusion is one of the problems with the mess in this thread.


And we were in the middle of a conversation so you don't even seem to understand what I'm fully talking about.


The way I see it is that you should hate kuffar in some ways i.e due to kufr but you shouldn't act violently towards them rather invite them nicely generally speaking and behave as the prophet :saws: advised us

[islamdude]

let alone kuffar, Muslims are hating each other because they differ in sectarian ideology. Mainly scholars of their respective sects are selling hatred packages and their blind followers take interest in hatred shopping

Only Muslims hate?? I wonder why

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZdguX_7xJA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXrwWpl4JPs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjSw9i8yKEo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVWtB8_99oQ

[azc]

Only Muslims hate?? I wonder why https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZdguX_7xJAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXrwWpl4JPshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjSw9i8yKEohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVWtB8_99oQ

when you see others are hating us then why Muslims should hate each other....? When the time will come to be united as an ummah...?

[islamdude]

when you see others are hating us then why Muslims should hate each other....? When the time will come to be united as an ummah...?

We hate people of bid'ah and the wrongdoers because of their evil.

The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) said: "The strongest bond of faith lies in loving and hating for Allah's sake" [ al-Bazzar ].

Allah says:
You will not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day having affection for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even if they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred. 58:22

Abu Ishaaq al-Hamadaani said: The one who shows respect to the follower of innovation has helped to destroy Islam.

http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...twaId&Id=85074

[Scimitar]

let alone kuffar, Muslims are hating each other because they differ in sectarian ideology. Mainly scholars of their respective sects are selling hatred packages and their blind followers take interest in hatred shopping

Some are trying to shove a madhab down my throat. Oh wait, it's you lol.

Don't you feel a bit hypocritical right now?

You just claimed Muslims hate on each other over silly matters such as sectarian matters - which would include Madhabs due to the sepaartion between "schools of thought" (madhabs)... yet you've been arguing with me on that other thread attempting to force me into a madhab.

when you discuss any topic with me, keep remember what you've written in other posts.

You just lost all credibility now. Ironic.

Hope you are satisfied.

Scimi

[azc]

Some are trying to shove a madhab down my throat. Oh wait, it's you lol. Don't you feel a bit hypocritical right now?You just claimed Muslims hate on each other over silly matters such as sectarian matters - which would include Madhabs due to the sepaartion between "schools of thought" (madhabs)... yet you've been arguing with me on that other thread attempting to force me into a madhab.You just lost all credibility now. Ironic.Hope you are satisfied.Scimi

No, dude, this is unfair. I've never forced you to follow a madhab nor do I to others as it's the personal matter of individuals but at least there should be a genuine reason to prove your views which satisfies us as well. Can you prove..?

[Scimitar]

No, dude, this is unfair. I've never forced you to follow a madhab nor do I to others as it's the personal matter of individuals but at least there should be a genuine reason to prove your views which satisfies us as well. Can you prove..?

You couldn't force us if you tried, but it has not escaped our notice how you've constantly tried to make a case for madhabs even though those of us who refrain from following one - have no problem with those that do follow one.

You seem to think, one cannot be a Muslim without a madhab based on the opinion of a scholar - had no ideas scholars received revelation lol. Oh wait - that was sarcasm. Just have to point that out. In case you think I was being serious lol.

The comment is controversially important - did your scholar get told by Allah or an Angel that Madhabs are a MUST otherwise one is not able to follow their deen?

Obviously not. So please do tell me, on what authority did your scholar make such an erroneous and haughty claim?

Scimi

[azc]

We hate people of bid'ah and the wrongdoers because of their evil.The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) said: "The strongest bond of faith lies in loving and hating for Allah's sake" [ al-Bazzar ].Allah says:You will not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day having affection for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even if they were their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kindred. 58:22Abu Ishaaq al-Hamadaani said: The one who shows respect to the follower of innovation has helped to destroy Islam.http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...twaId&Id=85074

Not showing hatred or not hating someone doesn't stand for respecting an innovator. How do you conclude it. You are free to hate. Keep on hating. who can stop you..? Perhaps you hate everyone except your own like minded people and ilk.

[Born_Believer]

I think people not watching the video and jumping to conclusion is one of the problems with the mess in this thread.


And we were in the middle of a conversation so you don't even seem to understand what I'm fully talking about.


The way I see it is that you should hate kuffar in some ways i.e due to kufr but you shouldn't act violently towards them rather invite them nicely generally speaking and behave as the prophet :saws: advised us

That's literally what I've just said and it's also what I thought you were saying lol

And I shall watch the video before I comment further, although my post was not about the video but rather what you said.

[azc]

You couldn't force us if you tried, but it has not escaped our notice how you've constantly tried to make a case for madhabs even though those of us who refrain from following one - have no problem with those that do follow one.You seem to think, one cannot be a Muslim without a madhab based on the opinion of a scholar - had no ideas scholars received revelation lol. Oh wait - that was sarcasm. Just have to point that out. In case you think I was being serious lol.The comment is controversially important - did your scholar get told by Allah or an Angel that Madhabs are a MUST otherwise one is not able to follow their deen?Obviously not. So please do tell me, on what authority did your scholar make such an erroneous and haughty claim?Scimi

''Ittabioo sabeela man annaba ilayya (surah luqman)

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/c...l_dinner_menu/

These Kaafirs hate Islaam and the Muslims. Well, Islaam and the Muslims hate them much more than that.

They imagine that the lands belong to them. All of this earth and everything in existence belongs to Allaah Ta`aalaa. It's only a matter of time before their land gets Taken from under their feet.

Despicable worshippers of Shaytaan.

Let's see if they'll be getting any "toasted bacon and banana sarmies" in Jahannam.

[Serinity]

The Media is censored by the kuffar militants. The wars in middle east are edited to look less barbaric, justifying the wars in syria, etc.

They hate us, and I hate them more. Every time a so-called Muslim / middle easterner, bombs a place, it is called "Islamic Terror" but when it is one of their own, it is called "a shooting" or something, and you'd be hard-pressed to find the word "terror".

But while I do hate kuffar like those you have linked, and I hate their guts. I think it is pertinent we do not approach every kafir with preconcieved hatred. There is no way I can or ever will love them, unless they turn to Islam, because loving them is contrary to Islam.

I hate their disbelief, and if that disbelief becomes their personality, I hate their personality too.

Is there anyone who is capable of ruling by the laws of Allah, today?

But, correct me if I am wrong, even if most of them hate us, we should still do as Allah commanded us, and everytime we meet kuffar we don't know, we should treat them without prejudgmental thoughts, etc. And if it turns out they hate Islam and are toxic, don't talk with them.

There is no way I can love them for their beliefs, cause that is impossible, to love a kafir for their kufr and be a Muslim. I hate them for their beliefs, and depending on how much they are consumed by it, and stuff, I hate them more.

I am pretty sure, that since it is in our Fitrah (Al-barra) that when faced with a situation, and if one Loves Allah, that one will either come to hate or love.

Hating a kafir for their disbelief, is like hating a rapist for their rape, or a murderer for their mass murder. While I may hate a kafir for their disbelief, depending on the person, I may not hate them completely (Hate their kufr side, while not necessarily hating their personality)

I see hating for the sake of Allah, as a protective "thing" (for a lack of a better word) from haram.

Say, we fear Allah, but that does not mean we do not love Allah. Fearing Allah, is different from the natural fear of fearing a snake, or a danger. Right?
Allahu alam.

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Of course, the Muslim will adopt the Akhlaaq which the Deen of Islaam commands him to. When dealing with those Kaafirs who are not at war with Islaam (or in support of war with Islaam), then he will deal with them in a good, just manner. When giving Da`wah to them, he will do so nicely.

If a person thoroughly studies the Seerah of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم and the lives of the Sahaabah, all his confusion will vanish. They will understand what is meant by al-Walaa wal-Baraa. Despite having the highest level of al-Walaa wal-Baraa, many people accepted Islaam simply by seeing the Akhlaaq of the Sahaabah.

A person won't understand al-Walaa wal-Baraa from one lecture. He should see it in action, so to speak. To do that, let him study the Seerah thoroughly and the lives of the Sahaabah thoroughly. That way he will understand it fully.

If you are looking for a Kitaab of Seerah to study, then a very good one which has been translated into English is "Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtoom" (The Sealed Nectar) by Shaykh Safi-ur-Rahmaan Mubaarakpuri. The Kitaab was originally written in Arabic but it is has been translated.

[Serinity]

I completely understand. Without seeing - reading of a live example, it may be misunderstood, like it was with me.

Ask yourself "Can you love a kafir for their kufr" if you have imaan, you can not. you can only hate them for their kufr. That does not mean we hate their personality.

It is impossible to be a Muslim and love kuffar for their Kufr. Cause the one who does that, Is a kafir, if not, a shaytaan. Cause you are basically saying "I love deviance, I am pleased with people disbelieving".

It is possible to hate a kafir based on their kufr, without hating their personality (say they are atheists, but their manners are still good (talk decent, have hayah, etc.) you wouldn't hate their personality, right? but you'd still hate their kufr side.

There is no way to be neutral in this. tbh.

Allahu alam.

[Mustafa16]

I completely understand. Without seeing - reading of a live example, it may be misunderstood, like it was with me.

Ask yourself "Can you love a kafir for their kufr" if you have imaan, you can not. you can only hate them for their kufr. That does not mean we hate their personality.

It is impossible to be a Muslim and love kuffar for their Kufr. Cause the one who does that, Is a kafir, if not, a shaytaan. Cause you are basically saying "I love deviance, I am pleased with people disbelieving".

It is possible to hate a kafir based on their kufr, without hating their personality (say they are atheists, but their manners are still good (talk decent, have hayah, etc.) you wouldn't hate their personality, right? but you'd still hate their kufr side.

There is no way to be neutral in this. tbh.

Allahu alam.

brother i have been reading your posts on this thread and i am sick and tired of not saying anything....you can't call shias rapists and murderers, because not all of them are, most of them aren't, and most don't support rape or murder.....i have actually talked to shias and they say assad is the lesser of the evils, not someone to admire.....i have had enough of your hatred, and i want to remind you what it would feel like if some kaafir told you youre a terrorist because youre a sunni muslim....seriously, how would you feel if a kaafir called you al qaeda, or isis, or taleban, or uncivilized??

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

seriously, how would you feel if a kaafir called you al qaeda, or isis, or taleban, or uncivilized??

I know you're addressing the question to Serinity, but if it was me, my answer would be:

"So what? They can feel free to call me any of that. Why would I care what a Kaafir calls me?"

But to understand that, you would need to understand the kind of mindset I have. Let me give you an example:

I'm sure you have seen lots of flies in your life. Right? Have you ever one day sat and thought, "I wonder what that fly thinks of me. What names does he call me??" I'm taking a guess here, but probably your answer will be: "No, I have not thought that." Why? Because it doesn't matter to you what that fly thinks.

So to me, those Kaafirs screaming "Terrorists! Backward! Old-Fashioned! Patriarchal! Narrow-Minded!" and whatever else, they are like flies.

I'll mention something else, as well. If there was a "Dislike" button in addition to the "Like" button, this post of mine right here would be swamped with "Dislikes". But it's a fact.

Just do what you are supposed to do. Follow Islaam. Follow the Sunnah properly. If you know that you have not done anything wrong, then if people accuse you or insult, who gives a monkey's...

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

you can't call shias rapists and murderers, because not all of them are, most of them aren't, and most don't support rape or murder.....

I don't know why everybody misunderstood that post. It was absolutely clear. What I said is: "Just like how a person would not want unity with rapists and murderers, why should he want unity with Shi`as?"

Suddenly, everyone took that post to mean that I said all Shi`as are rapists and murderers. It's important to read properly, not just "scan". The post did not mean that Shi`as are rapists and murderers; it was giving an example. Here are some more: "You would not want unity with paedophiles; you would not want unity with cannibals; you would not want unity with psychopaths." Yet, all of them are human beings. So why use the excuse that "Shi`as are human beings" to mean "We must have unity with them"?

You cannot have unity with Shi`as. Why? Because their sect, their cult, their religion, is based on hatred for Sahaabah-e-Kiraam, and on swearing and cursing them. As a result of this, the Anger of Allaah Ta`aalaa is perpetually upon them. If a person associates himself with them, he will be afflicted by it and the `Adhaab that befalls them may befall him as well, because he is with him.

[Mustafa16]

I know you're addressing the question to Serinity, but if it was me, my answer would be:

"So what? They can feel free to call me any of that. Why would I care what a Kaafir calls me?"

But to understand that, you would need to understand the kind of mindset I have. Let me give you an example:

I'm sure you have seen lots of flies in your life. Right? Have you ever one day sat and thought, "I wonder what that fly thinks of me. What names does he call me??" I'm taking a guess here, but probably your answer will be: "No, I have not thought that." Why? Because it doesn't matter to you what that fly thinks.

So to me, those Kaafirs screaming "Terrorists! Backward! Old-Fashioned! Patriarchal! Narrow-Minded!" and whatever else, they are like flies.

I'll mention something else, as well. If there was a "Dislike" button in addition to the "Like" button, this post of mine right here would be swamped with "Dislikes". But it's a fact.

Just do what you are supposed to do. Follow Islaam. Follow the Sunnah properly. If you know that you have not done anything wrong, then if people accuse you or insult, who gives a monkey's...

in order to 'follow the Sunnah properly' (by not following gulen movement and their pacifism and alleged deviation) would I have to believe that the gulen movement is a terrorist group? or a group that has committed injustice? what is your personal opinion, brother ibn adam, with regards to allegations of terrorism by Turkish government against gulen movement? should i not follow gulen movement, as you have said in the past, because it is deviant, or because it is an oppressor, or both?

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

in order to 'follow the Sunnah properly' (by not following gulen movement and their pacifism and alleged deviation) would I have to believe that the gulen movement is a terrorist group? or a group that has committed injustice? what is your personal opinion, brother ibn adam, with regards to allegations of terrorism by Turkish government against gulen movement? should i not follow gulen movement, as you have said in the past, because it is deviant, or because it is an oppressor, or both?

Don't follow any "movements" or "groups". Just stick to the original and pure "Islaam" which Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم brought, and which Sahaabah followed and spread around the world. To follow modern day movements and personalities only brings ruin. Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said:

"I leave behind me two things which, if you hold onto them firmly, you will never ever go astray after me: The Kitaab of Allaah, and my Sunnah."

In another Hadeeth, Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم says:

"I have left you on the white path (i.e. the path that is bright as day)."

تركتكم على المحجة البيضاء

Free yourself from all movements and from all the various personalities trying to make a name for themselves in the world. The moment a person gets drawn into a movement, or a sect, he abandons the pure Islaam. This is because, all these movements only take a portion of Islaam. You'll find a movement that has only 2% of Islaam, a movement that has maybe 10%, a movement that has 5%, a movement that has only 1%. So when a person joins this movement, then he exits the pure 100% Islaam and replaces it with this 1%. Allaah Ta`aalaa says in the Qur'aan:

أدخلوا في السلم كافة

"Enter into Islaam in entirety."

The word used here is "Kaaffah". Meaning, "completely", "entirely". Become a "complete" Muslim. Not a "Half-Muslim". Half-baked.

These movements pick and choose which elements of Islaam to follow, and they abandon the rest. There is no goodness in any of these movements, there never has been, and there never will be.

Adhere to the Qur'aan and the Sunnah and you will be fine, In Shaa Allaah.

In fact, examine any movement, any movement at all, and then read the Qur'aan, and you will see for yourself: "This movement is Definitely not following this Qur'aan."

There is no need to be a part of any "movements", akhi. Just keep the original Islaam.

[Mustafa16]

Don't follow any "movements" or "groups". Just stick to the original and pure "Islaam" which Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم brought, and which Sahaabah followed and spread around the world. To follow modern day movements and personalities only brings ruin. Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said:

"I leave behind me two things which, if you hold onto them firmly, you will never ever go astray after me: The Kitaab of Allaah, and my Sunnah."

In another Hadeeth, Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم says:

"I have left you on a white path (i.e. a path that is bright as day)."

تركتكم على المحجة البيضاء

Free yourself from all movements and from all the various personalities trying to make a name for themselves in the world. The moment a person gets drawn into a movement, or a sect, he abandons the pure Islaam. This is because, all these movements only take a portion of Islaam. You'll find a movement that has only 2% of Islaam, a movement that has maybe 10%, a movement that has 5%, a movement that has only 1%. So when a person joins this movement, then he exits the pure 100% Islaam and replaces it with this 1%. Allaah Ta`aalaa says in the Qur'aan:

أدخلوا في السلم كافة

"Enter into Islaam in entirety."

The word used here is "Kaaffah". Meaning, "completely", "entirely". Become a "complete" Muslim. Not a "Half-Muslim". Half-baked.

These movements pick and choose which elements of Islaam to follow, and they abandon the rest. There is no goodness in any of these movements, there never have been, and there never will be.

Adhere to the Qur'aan and the Sunnah and you will be fine, In Shaa Allaah.

In fact, examine any movement, any movement at all, and then read the Qur'aan, and you will see for yourself: "This movement is Definitely not following this Qur'aan."

There is no need to be a part of any "movements", akhi. Just keep the original Islaam.

what are some good, neutral "non movement" websites to learn from and obtain fatwas from...?

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

what are some good, neutral "non movement" websites to learn from and obtain fatwas from...?

Two things:

1) When it comes to learning, it is better to do so from actual Islaamic Kitaabs, rather than from random websites. So a better question would be: "What are some good Kitaabs in English to learn from?" And a very detailed answer can be written to that question, but in short, you can read:

1) Read an English translation of the Qur'aan. Try here:

http://www.noblequran.com/translation/

2) Read "Riyaadh-us-Saaliheen" (The Meadows of the Righteous) in Hadeeth. This is a collection of Ahaadeeth pertaining to Fadhaa'il (virtues), and it is one of the best Kitaabs ever compiled, and the author is Imaam an-Nawawi رحمة الله عليه, who lived many hundreds of years ago (died 762 years ago). You can download an English translation from here:

https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih...s_Saliheen.pdf

3) Read a Kitaab on the Seerah (biography) of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم, and the one I suggest - which was originally written in Arabic but later on translated into English - is "ar-Raheeq al-Makhtoom" (The Sealed Nectar), by Safi-ur-Rahmaan Mubaarakpuri, because it is quite comprehensive and the author stuck to only that which is authentic. You can download it from here:

https://islamfuture.files.wordpress....led-nectar.pdf

4) Read a Kitaab on the Shamaa'il (characteristics, ways, habits, mannerisms, personality) of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم, and the one I suggest is "Shamaa'il at-Tirmidhi", along with the Sharh (commentary) "Khasaa'il-e-Nabawi" by Maulana Zakariyyah Kandhlawi. You can download it from here:

https://islamfuture.files.wordpress....commentary.pdf

5) Read a basic Kitaab on Fiqh, and the one I would suggest for you is "Taleemul Haq" by Maulana Shabeer Ahmed Desai, because it is written in a way that is very simple and very easy to understand. You can download it from here:

https://ia902607.us.archive.org/28/i...aqComplete.pdf

6) Read a Kitaab on basic `Aqaa'id (beliefs), and the one I would suggest is "al-Fiqh al-Akbar" by Imaam Abu Haneefah رحمة الله عليه. Originally written in Arabic, but later on translated into English. You can download the translation from here:

https://archive.org/details/AlFiqhAlAkbar_201606

-------------

With that, the first part of your question has been answered. Read those Kitaabs which I have linked here. It may take you a while, because there are quite a few, and they are relatively long, but all of them are excellent Kitaabs, Alhamdulillaah. That is my advice to you. Learn from classical Islaamic Kitaabs, not from websites. Anyone can write anything on a website, and you would not know if it is authentic or not. A Jew could make an "Islaamic Website" and write false and misleading articles on purpose, just to deviate people, and the readers wouldn't even know, if they don't have proper knowledge.

Coming to the second part of the question: "Who to obtain fatwas from...?"

Well, when you have a question, pose it to different `Ulamaa. Proper, reliable `Ulamaa. There are not many left, though, and that is what makes it so difficult. There is no Fatwaa website on the internet currently that I agree with 100% (again, internet is not an authentic source of Islaamic knowledge), but for the most part, IslamQA of al-Munajjid is good, as well as the Hanafi Fatwaa website, also called IslamQA.

----------

والسلام

[Mustafa16]

This thread:

are you a Gulenist?

[Serinity]

brother i have been reading your posts on this thread and i am sick and tired of not saying anything....you can't call shias rapists and murderers, because not all of them are, most of them aren't, and most don't support rape or murder.....i have actually talked to shias and they say assad is the lesser of the evils, not someone to admire.....i have had enough of your hatred, and i want to remind you what it would feel like if some kaafir told you youre a terrorist because youre a sunni muslim....seriously, how would you feel if a kaafir called you al qaeda, or isis, or taleban, or uncivilized??

:salam:

Well, as long as I know I am right, I could care less what others think. They may argue, but personal insults?

They are merely throwing their judgments on their preconcieved notions of what Muslim is, judging us by our appearances.

They may assume me to be a terrorist, they are merely judging by what they think to be right and wrong. That is their "Reality". But that "reality" may just be a mirage formed by their disbelief.

While we Muslims judge by Truth, (we should, not all do), the kuffar Judge by Falsehood (their disbelief, kufr laws etc.)

To them their religion, to me mine. Difference is, they live in delusion, while we muslims, live in Truth. But I am aware that arrogance may "shade" me from that.

But stating truth is not arrogance. If that is, then saying murderers are evil is.

Allahu alam.

[azc]

brother i have been reading your posts on this thread and i am sick and tired of not saying anything....you can't call shias rapists and murderers, because not all of them are, most of them aren't, and most don't support rape or murder.....i have actually talked to shias and they say assad is the lesser of the evils, not someone to admire.....i have had enough of your hatred, and i want to remind you what it would feel like if some kaafir told you youre a terrorist because youre a sunni muslim....seriously, how would you feel if a kaafir called you al qaeda, or isis, or taleban, or uncivilized??

this game of hatred is played everywhere. If you go closer to peep into shia's life how much hatred they vomit against us can be seen. Hatred game of either side is wrong.

[sister herb]

this game of hatred is played everywhere. If you go closer to peep into shia's life how much hatred they vomit against us can be seen. Hatred game of either side is wrong.

And non-Muslims (non-shias I mean) hate both of us and use just similar words about us like we use in here (rats, insects, pigs, filth etc.). Hatred is the thing that people really know how to.

[Only1not3]

If you listen to the talk I posted of Shaykh Ahmad Jibril, he says inside there - and I'm paraphrasing here - "We didn't tell anyone to go out and start killing Shi`as at random." He didn't say that. We said - and we make it very clear - that we will Never ever have unity with them. We don't want unity with them. Ask any normal man, "If someone calls your mother a prostitute, will you be friends with him?" He'll tell you, "Never ever. If someone said something like that, I'd {insert threat here}." That's a fact. He doesn't want friendship with someone who refers to his mother as a prostitute. So how can any Muslim want friendship with a Shi`a when that is what they say about the Mother of the Believers, Hadhrat `Aa'ishah رضي الله عنها? The wife of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم? It is a compounded insult, because if the wife of a man is a prostitute, then by him being married to her, he is a Dayyooth (cuckold). How can you EVER have friendship or unity with Shi`as? Never ever. We hate them. We despite them. To hate and despise them is good, because they hate and despite Allaah Ta`aalaa, and Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم, and the Sahaabah.

This concept of: "Love all, hate none." Is not part of Islaam. It was invented by the likes of Gandhi. Islaam never taught that. The issue of "Al-Bughdhu fillaah" (Hating for the Sake of Allaah) is linked to Tawheed itself. It is taught in the very first lessons on Tawheed, along with al-Walaa wal-Baraa (Alliance and Disavowal). These are fundamental aspects of Islaam.

Nabi Ibraaheem عليه السلام said to the Mushrikeen when they refused to accept Tawheed:

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَآءُ مِنْكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاءُ أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ

"There is indeed an excellent example for you in Ibraaheem and those with him, when they said to their people: "Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allaah; we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you enmity and hatred forever until you believe in Allaah Alone..." [Soorah al-Mumtahinah, 60:4]

What is this then?? What happened to "Love all, hate none"??

"Love all, hate none" has never been something any Nabi ever propagated.

Now, the funny thing is that despite having an absolutely clear-cut Aayat like this, the modernist "Mozlems" will still pull their hair and teeth out trying to interpret it to mean something - Anything - other than what it actually means and is saying. But what's funnier than that is that no Kaafir who reads their excuses falls for it. The Kuffaar who read the apologies of these apologists mock them for it and know very well that they're talking trash. The Aayaat are crystal clear. No matter how hard they try to make Islaam into a pacifist, Gandhi religion, it is not and will never be.

والسلام

May Allah reward you good

Where did I say to love deviants.? Several times I've written that I dislike them. Where is your mind while reading my posts...? I simply say that we must not listen to such lectures which increase the intensity of hatred...... If you love hatred... Then keep it on as shia deviants do... I've no sympathy for them at all

[Only1not3]

:salam:

I want to ask a question in regards to Hating for the Sake of Allah. I have no doubt that it is good for us, to protect us by having enmity towards it (you will never ever fall for something you have extreme enmity for)

But what about the average kafir? I hate the shias, because of their beliefs. But what about the normal kafir joe?

I mean, correct me if i am wrong:

Show enmity and hatred towards those who show hatred - do not want to listen or change.

my hatred for someone is dependent upon their level of kufr, and enmity towards Islam. So an militant kafir who wants to go to war against Islam, I hate more, than the average joe.

However, there are kafirs where I hate their stance and kufr, but as for their personality - I do not hate, nor do I love. If it goes against Islamic standards, I dislike it, but I don't hate them completely. I hate someone based on their disobedience, and kufr. As for the kufr, I hate it completely, however, the person himself? depends on how engrossed in Kufr he is.

Say Abu Talib (the uncle of The Prophet Muhammad SAW) I don't hate him, but I dislike and hate that he didn't join Islam. as opposed to Abu Lahab, whom I hate altogether, completely.

Is my approach Islamic?

Walaikum,

I think your approach is right. I was raised as a kaffir and my family with the exception of my older brother are still kaffirs. I don't hate them but I sure hate to seem them in kufr and the kufr they think they believe in

[azc]

And non-Muslims (non-shias I mean) hate both of us and use just similar words about us like we use in here (rats, insects, pigs, filth etc.). Hatred is the thing that people really know how to.

very true but exception can't be denied. E.g. Some Christians like Eric H still alive on this planet. I can't stop people from hated but at least I can refrain myself.

[Zeal]

Can you please tell me how you explain this then, If we shouldn't hate kuffar?


‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) was going between Safaa and Marwah (making ‘Umrah) when a long-bearded man, a mu’ath-thin of the Haram, said to him, “O Abaa ‘Abdir-Rahmaan! I love you for the sake of Allaah!” He replied, “But I hate you for the sake of Allaah!” His companions blamed him for that, but he defended himself, saying: “He goes overboard in (calling) the athaan, and he takes money for it!” (Musannaf of ‘Abdur-Razzaaq, 1/481) Al-Albaanee authenticated it in*as-Silsilah as-Saheehah*(1/104).





I think that you can love and hate someone at the same time as per the proof shown in the above post.

Also, in sibling rivalries like bro vs sis, they can love and hate eachother at the same time.




Apologies, if the last time I asked it came across as rude or long-winded.

[anatolian]

I have another Q. Why are we so obssesed with the itiqadii differences? We are in the age of fitna. We must be more concerned in the amalii differences. We are killing our own brethren.

[anatolian]

are you a Gulenist?

He is finnish

[Hope1995]

Hi, I’m a non-Muslim. I wanted to ask is it racist that Muslims hate the Bani Israel(i.e the Jews) for the sake of allah? If so, why don’t Muslims say they hate Italians for the sake of allah if most of them are kuffar? Does racism depend on the context? Most Yoruba are Muslims and some of them are followers of the Yoruba religion and the followers are called Yoruba. If a Yoruba Muslim were to say I hate the Yoruba(followers of the Yoruba religion) for the sake of allah, would that be self-hatred because they both belong to the same people, just one is a Muslim and the other doesn’t believe is ethnicity is his religion?

[Avis]

Hi, I’m a non-Muslim. I wanted to ask is it racist that Muslims hate the Bani Israel(i.e the Jews) for the sake of allah? If so, why don’t Muslims say they hate Italians for the sake of allah if most of them are kuffar? Does racism depend on the context? Most Yoruba are Muslims and some of them are followers of the Yoruba religion and the followers are called Yoruba. If a Yoruba Muslim were to say I hate the Yoruba(followers of the Yoruba religion) for the sake of allah, would that be self-hatred because they both belong to the same people, just one is a Muslim and the other doesn’t believe is ethnicity is his religion?

Hating people for their misguided beliefs is not racism. If those Jews converted, the Muslims would accept them, it has nothing to do with race. Muslims just hate the actions of a people, we don't judge a people by the color of their skin or where they were born.

[Hope1995]

Hating people for their misguided beliefs is not racism. If those Jews converted, the Muslims would accept them, it has nothing to do with race. Muslims just hate the actions of a people, we don't judge a people by the color of their skin or where they were born.

I wasn’t saying it was based on skin color or race. I was saying would it still be racist even if it’s not about race or skin color because you clearly say Jews for example? The reason why I ask is because the West considers it to be so except when talking about ethnic conflicts today and back than and also saying the romans hated the Greeks. I feel these feelings of the west sometimes to believe that because of the west and I’m wanting my views to change a bit and also I can see the west is ever contradictory, I don’t know what to believe. Also for the last sentence I meant to say in the last worlds they believe their ethnicity is their religion when talking about the Yorubas.

[Avis]

I wasn’t saying it was based on skin color or race. I was saying would it still be racist even if it’s not about race or skin color because you clearly say Jews for example? The reason why I ask is because the West considers it to be so except when talking about ethnic conflicts today and back than and also saying the romans hated the Greeks. I feel these feelings of the west sometimes to believe that because of the west and I’m wanting my views to change a bit and also I can see the west is ever contradictory, I don’t know what to believe. Also for the last sentence I meant to say in the last worlds they believe their ethnicity is their religion when talking about the Yorubas.

You're not making sense. How can it be racist of Muslims to hate Jews for their beliefs? Who cares what Westerners think, we as Muslims should hate anyone who practices evil and we should hate their false beliefs. It doesn't make us racist in any way. If anyone says otherwise, they're just trying to put Muslims down by playing with words.

As for Jews, they like to think they're special because of their race, when in fact, the only thing that is special is how evil they are. The Anti-Semitic card is their go to in order to shut people up why they shed the truth upon their evil actions. Their race is no different to Palestinians, who are mostly descendants of Jews. Do we hate Palestinian Muslims because they come from the same lineage? No.

Again to make it clear- It is not racist to hate people for their evil actions and disbelief in the Creator and their rejection of Islam. Doesn't matter what group of people they are, doesn't matter what they say, there is nothing wrong with it. Anyone who uses the "Racist!" card is just lacks intelligence and has nothing worthwhile to say.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God, see the first name of Allah.

1 الرَّحْمَنُ AR-RAHMAAN The Most or Entirely Merciful Allah, Ar-Rahmaan, bestows His Mercy (Rahmah) upon all the creatures in this universe.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

Eric

[Al-Ansariyah]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God, see the first name of Allah.

1الرَّحْمَنُAR-RAHMAANThe Most or Entirely MercifulAllah, Ar-Rahmaan, bestows His Mercy (Rahmah) upon all the creatures in this universe.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,

Eric

Assalamualaikum brother Eric

I have noticed u on various forums. I just had a quick question. Don't be offended. I was wondering why haven't u reverted yet?

Allah has showed u the true path, nd now u have to make a choice.

If u have any confusion about islam, u may get it cleared. No offence pls.

May Allah reward u

[Hope1995]

You're not making sense. How can it be racist of Muslims to hate Jews for their beliefs? Who cares what Westerners think, we as Muslims should hate anyone who practices evil and we should hate their false beliefs. It doesn't make us racist in any way. If anyone says otherwise, they're just trying to put Muslims down by playing with words.

As for Jews, they like to think they're special because of their race, when in fact, the only thing that is special is how evil they are. The Anti-Semitic card is their go to in order to shut people up why they shed the truth upon their evil actions. Their race is no different to Palestinians, who are mostly descendants of Jews. Do we hate Palestinian Muslims because they come from the same lineage? No.

Again to make it clear- It is not racist to hate people for their evil actions and disbelief in the Creator and their rejection of Islam. Doesn't matter what group of people they are, doesn't matter what they say, there is nothing wrong with it. Anyone who uses the "Racist!" card is just lacks intelligence and has nothing worthwhile to say.

Ok, I understand your point. It’s about religion, saying the name of someone’s ethnicity is to point out they’re not Muslim, it actually has nothing to do with them being of that ethnicity. It’s like when people were saying the British attacks people and people were hating them. People didn’t hate the British for being British, they were not liking them for their actions. Most ethnic conflicts isn’t about ethnicity, it’s about politics and other matters so it’s nor racist in certain contexts to dislike an ethnic group. It’s actually quite similar to the Muslims not liking Jews or other ethnic groups not because they belong to them, rather because of disbelief. Can Muslims say they hate black people not because they are black but because most of them are not Muslim? If not, why say that about Jews and Hindus and England?

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you user123name;

Don't be offended. I was wondering why haven't u reverted yet?

Thanks for your concern, and no. I am not offended. I came to this forum fifteen years ago in the hope of understanding how interfaith relations might work. I have come to understand that my Muslim brothers and sisters have a profound faith in Islam, especially now as we are about to enter Ramadan.

I have experienced a number of events that should have ended in death or serious injury. Faith and trust in God found healing; so all I can say is that God works in mysterious ways.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,
Eric

[Al-Ansariyah]

Greetings and peace be with you user123name;


Thanks for your concern, and no. I am not offended. I came to this forum fifteen years ago in the hope of understanding how interfaith relations might work. I have come to understand that my Muslim brothers and sisters have a profound faith in Islam, especially now as we are about to enter Ramadan.

I have experienced a number of events that should have ended in death or serious injury. Faith and trust in God found healing; so all I can say is that God works in mysterious ways.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,
Eric

Assalamualaikum
I know ur belief is absolutely correct. I was just asking why haven't u reverted to islam yet?
I have this feeling that u believe in Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and Quran too.
There is just a border of reverting between u and islam.
M not forcing u tho. just asking:)

May Allah reward u.

[CuriousonTruth]

Ok, I understand your point. It’s about religion, saying the name of someone’s ethnicity is to point out they’re not Muslim, it actually has nothing to do with them being of that ethnicity. It’s like when people were saying the British attacks people and people were hating them. People didn’t hate the British for being British, they were not liking them for their actions. Most ethnic conflicts isn’t about ethnicity, it’s about politics and other matters so it’s nor racist in certain contexts to dislike an ethnic group. It’s actually quite similar to the Muslims not liking Jews or other ethnic groups not because they belong to them, rather because of disbelief. Can Muslims say they hate black people not because they are black but because most of them are not Muslim? If not, why say that about Jews and Hindus and England?

Practically this is not true. While some muslims might hate hinduism for it's ridiculous animal worshipping religion that belongs in the stone age, most muslims, even most religious conservative muslims don't hate people for what religion they follow.

For example, while I believe christianity is a fake religion created by the Roman empire, I don't hate it. I don't Judaism. I generally don't HATE most religions. And majority of religious muslims you will converse with will have same response. Except Salafists.

If you ask any religious muslim just quickly answer why they hate the West (IF they do, which is a major IF), and the fastest answer will be Iraq Invasion, Afghanistan Invasion, Crusades, Colonialism, forced Liberalism. And after all that you may find some people saying it's because of the Trinity.

Every conflict is political, even the religious ones.

[Hope1995]

Practically this is not true. While some muslims might hate hinduism for it's ridiculous animal worshipping religion that belongs in the stone age, most muslims, even most religious conservative muslims don't hate people for what religion they follow.

For example, while I believe christianity is a fake religion created by the Roman empire, I don't hate it. I don't Judaism. I generally don't HATE most religions. And majority of religious muslims you will converse with will have same response. Except Salafists.

If you ask any religious muslim just quickly answer why they hate the West (IF they do, which is a major IF), and the fastest answer will be Iraq Invasion, Afghanistan Invasion, Crusades, Colonialism, forced Liberalism. And after all that you may find some people saying it's because of the Trinity.

Every conflict is political, even the religious ones.

I get what you say to a point.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Hope1995;

Most ethnic conflicts isn’t about ethnicity, it’s about politics and other matters

It is always our leaders who take us to war, there is a formula to incite people that has been known for thousands of years. The leaders are always the main benefactors from war; so they have an incentive. People on both sides suffer, so the common man on both sides do not want war.

Herman Goering clearly spells out how gullible we are and our leaders are still using this today.

“Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/335...war-why-should

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people,
Eric

[CuriousonTruth]

I get what you say to a point.

and what are your disagreements?

[Hope1995]

and what are your disagreements?

It was God that helped us.

[CuriousonTruth]

It was God that helped us.

To do what?

[Hope1995]

Many things.

[Al-Ansariyah]

Many things.

Without God , u can't do anything.

[Hope1995]

Without God , u can't do anything.

I don’t know if God exists at times or not, that’s why I say that. I’m an agnostic/freethinker.

[Al-Ansariyah]

I don’t know if God exists at times or not, that’s why I say that. I’m an agnostic/freethinker.

Think about the creation of universe. How did it all start? U might know the big bang theory. It all started with a very ,very small dot like thing. Where did it come from.. Of course, There must be a Supreme Power who might have made it.
Islam and science are so much related to each other.
Nd yes, God is always with us. He is closer to us than our jugular vein (50:16).
Mankind was created of haste (21:37).
That is why, we just want our works to be done before time. We can't remain patient.
Nd God does not burden a soul with what it cannot bear (2:286). God gives us those trials in which we can be patient , it's always according to our tendency.

May Allah guide u.

[Hope1995]

Think about the creation of universe. How did it all start? U might know the big bang theory. It all started with a very ,very small dot like thing. Where did it come from.. Of course, There must be a Supreme Power who might have made it.
Islam and science are so much related to each other.
Nd yes, God is always with us. He is closer to us than our jugular vein (50:16).
Mankind was created of haste (21:37).
That is why, we just want our works to be done before time. We can't remain patient.
Nd God does not burden a soul with what it cannot bear (2:286). God gives us those trials in which we can be patient , it's always according to our tendency.

May Allah guide u.

You do make a point because what was before the Big Bang is important.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Hope1995;

You do make a point because what was before the Big Bang is important.

You need to spend many sleepless nights pondering that question. There are only two choices, something did not have any beginning, or something did not come from anything. Both these answers need magic they defy science and reason as we know it.

Call it particle X, how could it have no beginning, how could it just pop into existence when nothing existed before?

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric

[Hope1995]

Some Palestinians claim to be Israelites, most don’t. How are they Israelites?