Greetings from the emrald isle

[beleiver]

Born and raised in the Uk, from a conservative atheist family, felt there was something deeply wrong with society and Thatchers Britain, dropped out and adopted a kind of alternative nomadic lifestyle that showed me much of the world and its peoples, which helped develop my belief in the truth of the one God around 2000 but only got round to reading the Quran just last year:embarrass which brings me here, as i have a load of questions..

Not had a TV since the 80s, read books and comics instead, consider my self a truth seeker..

Now settled with a beautiful wife and young family of four in Ireland, God willing i will be granted time to ask those questions and share my views..

I suppose here is a good as place as any to ask the first question?

Where can i find direction from the Quran on how to pray? is there an easy prayer for beginners as subscribed by the messenger?

Thanks in advance for your answers and please forgive my ignorance.

[greenhill]

Hello and welcome the the forum.

The Quran is a guide, it tells us many things, but it is not a Book of details... Ie, it tells you things and does not necessarily tells you exactly how. Hence, the necessity to have a 'human' guide via the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to show the way. So he taught the ways to 'implement' what is said in the Quran and these are recorded as sunnah/ hadeeth.

The verses came down over a 26 year period and often when something happens, a verse would be sent to guide .. this is so that what was revealed addressed the issue and given time to be incorporated into lifestyle.

To come back to your exact question, it says in the Quran to pray at certain times (not in any order) and it also mentions the various positions (prostrate, bow, stand etc) separately and scattered around the Quran. So, to get the full picture, it is not in the Quran, but the sunnah... like the Haj tradition, not found in the Quran what to do, but the practice has remained ...

Hope it makes it clearer.

Wishing you a great stay.


:peace:

[beleiver]

Thank you greenhill,

I am clearer but still confused by my ignorance, I am not clear what sunnah and hadeeth is exactly, Am i right in thinking they are books written about Mohamed? Not so much a guide but a history or biography of Mohamed's life?
If you or anyone could post a link i would be grateful, what i am really interested in is learning a basic prayer as i want to start meditating and prying more regularly like the Quran advises, I struggle with 4 young children in a busy house to clear my mind let alone hear my inner voice these days, i can understand how reciting a simple verse could help that inner voice be heard and clear my mind from that unwelcome negative chitter chatter..
As i pray currently it takes too long to do this, i simple dont have the time..

Thanks for your warm welcome..

[greenhill]

Biographies on the prophet (pbuh) is something else.. :p

The sunnah (in a nutshell or generalisation) is the practice of the prophet. What he used to do, how he did it, his 'being' itself, his character etc (him keeping a beard etc) whilst the hadeeth (again generalisation) is recorded sayings of the prophet (pbuh) and we ought to be more careful with hadeeths because there are inauthentic ones about.


:peace:

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[azc]

Welcome to islamicboard. Does this link help: http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/Prayer.htm

[beleiver]

Interesting, so would i be right in assuming that authentic hadeeths are the ones that don't contradict the Quran?

[beleiver]

Interesting and thanks for sharing, but way too much info for me to get my head round for now, will try to read all the same, but might take a while..I was more looking for a simple easy to learn prayer or such like...I did come across some thing years ago that was said to be direct from Mohamed that resonated with me, I think it was possibly from a hadith or sunnah, it was a short and simple and i think for people new to praying..

Thanks for your warm welcome.

[noraina]

Hi,

Welcome to this forum, it's wonderful to know that you're interested in learning more about Islam. And prayer, for me, is one of the most beautiful aspects of our religion, it's such an intimate way of connecting with Allah swt, with no intermediaries or anything between you and your Creator.

As Muslims, we pray five times a day, at set times, with set positions and prayers that you recite in Arabic. This is called salah and is a compulsory aspect of Islam.

A form of voluntary prayer is dua, these are more informal prayers you can say at any time in whatever language you prefer, they are general supplications you can make for forgiveness, asking Allah swt for something, thanks, ect.

In that sense, there is no 'short' or 'easy' version of salah, the ritual prayer, and while it can seem a little overwhelming at first, it's actually not so difficult to do. And about time, the Islamic prayer doesn't really take longer than ten minutes to complete. Again, it can seem a bit much at first, but you'll find it becoming such a wonderful part of your routine it'll hardly seem like an effort.

And, the Qur'an is the revelation of Allah to the Prophet Muhammad :saws:, and hadith are the narrations of the Prophet, and the sunnah are his actions. The Qur'an commands us to pray, and the hadith and sunnah show us how the prayer is done.

If you have any further questions, please do ask. We'd love to help, in'sha'Allah :).

[noraina]

btw, take a look at the second post on this thread: https://www.islamicboard.com/new-mus...pray-help.html

It has videos for each of the five prayers, it helps a lot seeing it for yourself.

And an amazing little book containing general Islamic supplications (duas) is 'The Fortress of the Muslims' you can order it off Amazon or eBay, it just costs a couple of pounds, filled with lots of little prayers from the Qur'an and Sunnah.

[aaj]

:salam: Peace be upon you

welcome to the forum :)

Ireland does seem better than uk. How do you like it there?

As greenhill mentioned and in short, Quran is the command of Allah and Sunnah is the implementation of that .

Sunnah is the actions and life example of the Prophet (:saws:)
hadith is the recorded sayings of the prophet (:saws:)

Both are a 2nd source of information after the Quran. They are the 2nd wahi (revelation) from Allah. Allah says we sent dhikr (reminder-quran) and something like it. And that the Prophet (:saws:) does not speak of his own accord but we put words in his mouth.

So both are needed (Quran and sunnah/hadith) to fully comprehend Islam and implement it in one's life.

regarding prayer, this is a good video tutorial to help inshallah:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86bmAnC3MAc

[beleiver]

Thanks for the replies, i am learning..

I was not aware the obligatory prayers must be said in Arabic, i am not sure if it would feel right to pray unless i was totally 100% clear in my mind what the intention of the prayer is, I feel it would have to resonate in my heart before God could hear it? I really not sure i have the time to learn Arabic.
The other is i never knew of the importance of the hadiths and sunnahs , i thought the Quran was all that was really important.

I will not let this put me off though, my intention i suppose is just to become closer to god, be a better person, receive the guidance so to define the truth from Satan's lies, be the master of my thoughts and intentions so to overcome the fear and hate that we are bombarded with these days and be guided to do good works and ward off evil...
My intention is that rather than become part or a member of a religion, what i love about the message as i interpret it from the Quran is obey God and no one else, he has no partner and no one can speak for him, which sets it apart from the issues i have with institutionalized religion where leaders lead their flock astray and are easy influenced by Satan's lies..As i believe happened with Christianity as one example..It makes perfect sense for me for god to send a messenger with this clear message, i could go on about other truth i found and love in the quran, but alas i have little time and will leave for another day, Gog willing..

From what i gather from a bit of reading about Islamic prayer from the Hadith is if one isn't to pray in this rather strict manner they are not a true believer, given my user name:o i hope this doesn't offend and you will continue to be patient with me?

And BTW , Ireland is not so bad, very expensive though and hard to find work if you are the self employed type, a nation of alcoholics with an obsession with health and safety, all good for laugh, or craik as they say..

[noraina]

My intention is that rather than become part or a member of a religion, what i love about the message as i interpret it from the Quran is obey God and no one else, he has no partner and no one can speak for him, which sets it apart from the issues i have with institutionalized religion where leaders lead their flock astray and are easy influenced by Satan's lies..As i believe happened with Christianity as one example..It makes perfect sense for me for god to send a messenger with this clear message, i could go on about other truth i found and love in the quran, but alas i have little time and will leave for another day, Gog willing..
.

Of course, actually many people who are born into Islam are not native Arabic speakers - I'm certainly not. However, it's quite easy to learn and memorise the English translation of the Arabic prayers for salah. Actually, when you are first learning how to pray, there is no harm in holding a sheet of paper with the Arabic and English upon it to help you learn.

And the ritual prayer can seem quite 'strict' and 'set', but it really is such a spiritually nourishing and comforting part of worship in Islam, since I have began praying, I have attained so much peace and a much closer connection with Allah. I'm linking you to two articles, you can read them if you wish, it just describes the inherent wisdom and benefits within each part of the ritual prayer, and why Allah has prescribed them for us:

http://www.islamreligion.com/article...r-part-1-of-2/

http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org...nd-manner.html


That part I just highlighted in your post is the very foundation of a Muslims belief, we call it 'Tawhid', the oneness of God. To become a Muslim begins with testifying that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad :saws: is His messenger - and it seems to me you are very much drawn to the truth of that message. And I would say that while belief in God *is* the most essential aspect of faith, this needs to be also supplemented by the entire guidelines of religion, to truly benefit from it.

See, Islam is not just a personal, private belief, it is a complete way of life, a way of thinking, speaking and behaving. It's beauty is in the way it encompasses your life completely and seeks for you to strive for perfection in everything you do. A beautiful concept is, that even eating, sleeping, or walking to work are considered acts of worship if you do them to please Allah - that's such a wonderful thought. And you will truly experience that spiritual transformation if you embrace every aspect of Islam - and as Muslims we consider Islam to be 'the natural religion of man', and you'd find soon that many parts of Islam just seem to be natural extensions of yourself as a human being.

btw, there's nothing wrong with your username. Everyone, even those who are already Muslim, should strive to become true believers - and to just add in a bit of Arabic practise, lol, the Arabic word for a true believer is Mu'min.

[beleiver]

Noriana
Those links were really help full, really blew my mind, learned so much.. I came here intending to just learn a prayer , but can see great benefits and reason now behind the movements and postures and all of it really..I am certainly going to give it a go, will probably start with the night prayer when the house is quiet and then seems the most relevant and holy part the day too..
I am not sure though if the night prayer is the same as all others and all others the same?

I read up an looked at some Hadiths , not yet the Sunnahs...It seems there are many and a lot of reading and hard to say whether authentic, as obviously written much later and hard to prove, I take it its most commonly accepted al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are most authentic as wikipedia states?
Are there specific books on praying?
I can totally grasp how it must be a great way of life, I suppose its similar to how i naturally lived which drew me to God in the first place and how my life evolved after i first felt i made contact with prayer, years ago a Muslim friend told me I lived by his principles, will never forget that conversation inspired me more to try prayer than all else..
Before i read those links BTW I was always fearful of bowing down to anyone , was always against hierarchies and leaders and being a slave , but bowing to God and living to please him makes so much sense now...Bow to and obey and please God and live how he wants and, if we all did that and treated each other with equality and respect then we wouldn't need any other authority that can abuse its power and lead us astray..
But i am a little afraid money can buy schools and universities and the Hadiths and Sunnahs can be kind of canonized by a hierarchy that could claim to speak for God similar to what happened to Christianity?
Not saying Islam has been corrupted at all, but it must be hardest one for Satan or anyone else to twist or pervert into a tool of control that seems a common theory..

Any way full moon and some kind of planetary alignment tonight, no time like present..

May Allah bless you..

[beleiver]

These sound a good start?

Upon waking, one should wipe one's face, use a Miswaak (toothstick), and make this supplication: "There is no god but You, Glory be to You, I seek forgiveness from You for my sins, and I ask for Your mercy. O Allah, increase my knowledge and let my heart not swerve after You have guided me, and bestow mercy upon me from Yourself. All praise be to Allah who has given us back life after our death and unto Him is the resurrection."

Then, one should recite the last ten verses of chapter 'Al-'Imraan', then one should say, "O Allah, to You belongs the praise. You are the Light of the heavens and the earth and what is therein. And to You belongs the praise. You are the truth and Your promise is true. And the meeting with You is true. And the paradise is true. And the Fire is true. And the prophets are true. And Muhammad is true. And the Hour is true. O Allah, to You have I submitted. And in You have I believed. And in You have I put my trust. And to You have I turned. And by You I argue. And to You do I turn for my decisions. Forgive me of my former and latter sins, and those done in private and those done in public. You are Allah, there is no god besides You."

[beleiver]

So last night i tried my first prayer as inspired from the info on this thread..I was hoping to wake as i normally do in the middle of the night when the children come into our bed normally forcing me into theirs, this is the only quiet time in our house and seemed a great opportunity, but by the time i finished trying to memorize the above verse they had already woke, so i washed and did my prayer with out sleep first..

I cleared my mind the best i could and focused on the feeling of love then did the whole standing a bowing and kneeling three time while trying to remember the words above with my own improvisation, trying to keep my intent clear...I certainly felt something, went to sleep content..

So this morning i did my usual brief meditation and vow and asked for a sign i was heard...Went out to give scraps to feed chickens we keep, remembering one of our favorite hens was shut out the coup last night, to my dismay she didnt come running out the bushes like they normally do when i approach the coup for their morning feed, she was no where to be seen , my hear sank remembering we lost a cockerel to a predator that was shut out the other night, i then went to check for eggs in the hen house and their she was sat on eggs, My OH confirmed she was shut out as she remembered throwing scraps quite late in the day..A Mystery, this has never happened before..And whats more we got more eggs today than any other with our current flock..It is spring but it was cold and cloudy day..
Could this be a sign?

Have been wondering what the significance to prying in Arabic is? Surely God is multilingual and ones intent is supreme..If anyone could post a link to the significance of using Arabic in prayer i would be grateful..
The call to prayers i have heard on my travels is an eerily beautiful sound that always resonated and felt touched my soul, is that all of is there a deeper meaning?

May gods blessings be upon you..

[noraina]

Ameen - and I am so glad you found those links helpful. I remember reading them when I first began prayer and they really did change my perspective on salah. You know, the ritual prayer is just so liberating. We prostrate ourselves entirely before Allah - and by this we refuse to prostrate towards or worship anything else, whether it be towards a government, or wealth, or fame, or desires.

About the hadith and sunnah - the sunnahs are often described *within* the hadith, if that makes sense. So, for example, a Sunnah is to use the miswak for cleaning one's teeth, this is transmitted to us via a hadith.

And about the authenticity of the hadith and sunnah, this is another really interesting topic. You're right, they were written some time after, sometimes quite a few years after the death of the Prophet :saws:, but the methodology used to collect and then analyse them is so thorough it is scientific in nature. In fact, the study of hadith is known as the 'science of hadith'. It's methods is such that it can't really be subjective at all and we are well-assured they are authentic, I'm linking you to another couple of articles, I hope they help inshaAllah - a long read, but really mind-blowing:

http://sunnahonline.com/library/fiqh...nces-of-hadith

http://lostislamichistory.com/imam-a...nce-of-hadith/

And as for the importance of the Arabic language (keep in mind, not only is the Qur'an in Arabic, but Arabic is such a complex language, it seems to have been made especially to describe matters of religion and faith, in way no other language can) :

http://islamicsystem.blogspot.co.uk/...-language.html

[noraina]

And it's amazing you read salah for the first time - it really does seem to move something deep inside, doesn't it?

And then, this isn't so surprising, because worshipping Allah swt is our natural state. When we worship Allah, we liberate ourselves from the bonds of the world. So by becoming His slave, we attain the truest form freedom. In the Qur'an we are told we were created to worship God - and so when we pray, we are fulfilling the purpose of our life, our existence, and that feeling of contentment far surpasses any fleeting happiness something 'worldly' can give us.

Sometimes going into sujood - the full prostration - is so overwhelming it can move you to tears, because your soul seems to recognise this is where it belongs.

And as for signs, they are all around us, the signs of Allah. The sky standing above us, our every breath and heartbeat, the earth rotating around the sun, these are such powerful signs of the existence of Allah, that when you actually look for them your can't believe you never even noticed for them before.

btw, I also have chickens - now that's a very interesting coincidence, isn't it?

[beleiver]

Noraina,
Thanks again for your replies, i am again finding them very helpful..Especially the last one about Arabic language..interesting site btw, some good articles about the economic philosophy in Islam thats another thing that deeply resonates with me..
Not had time to look too much at the Hadith links God willing i will one day, for now i want to spend what time i have studying and experimenting with Prayer..

I was woke last night and tried again, Rather than memorizing i wrote down the above prayer i copy and pasted and read from the Quran..Didnt feel as natural and a strong connection but still felt ok..
This morning i broke my normal routine of Coffee, cigarette and internet before the school run and actually found time for a brief mediation, reflection and prayer in my own way, as i have for a few years now..I actually put my cigarette out half way, that niggling voice at the back of my head an addict would normally dismiss became more clear, This might be the first time for a while now i actually want to quit, and prayer is showing me a way to break that habitual cycle, that addiction is perhaps my biggest most destructive bond to this world?

What moved me most after my first prayer i suppose was a clear understanding of how giving up my free will to God is a good thing.I could never see it as good before. On reflection i suppose i had given it up to God years ago in my own way i just wasn't conscious of it, i never really understood what it meant..That first prayer kind of opened my mind to that truth, and as a truth seeker i am grateful..

I agree the signs are around us all the time, the closer to God i felt i became over the years have helped me become aware of them..

Coincidences or synchronicity as i call them are different , i found happen for a reason , and i believe is a way for God to let the individual know they are on the right path, gods way of communicating to us...Would this theory be in line with Islamic teachings?
It was a certainly a string of amazing coincidences that gave me faith and led me to read the Quran and to here where i am today..

thanks for giving your time to reply, May Allahs blessings be upon you..

[noraina]

Coincidences or synchronicity as i call them are different , i found happen for a reason , and i believe is a way for God to let the individual know they are on the right path, gods way of communicating to us...Would this theory be in line with Islamic teachings?
It was a certainly a string of amazing coincidences that gave me faith and led me to read the Quran and to here where i am today..

Well, in Islam it is said then when you turn towards Allah, He opens up your heart and guides you to distinguish between truth and error, right and wrong. So as you embrace His faith and His teachings, so many things are explained, and so many things seem to fall into place.

There's this wonderful hadith I think will resonate with you:

The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said: Allah said:"I am as My servant thinks I am. I am with him when he makes mention of Me.
If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and
if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an
assembly better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm’s length, I draw
near to him a fathom’s length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him running."It was related by al-Buhkari

[beleiver]

Noraina, that certainly rings true..Raises the question, how does God do these things?

I feel i already know , and is being confirmed as i draw closer..
Yesterday was a great day..

And btw when i have been praying i have not been facing any particular direction, is there an app for that..or before internet how did people know which direction Mecca was?

May God bless you for your time and patience in your replies..

[beleiver]

Ok, after some reflection and contemplation i decided to look at a map and a compass, that answers that one stupid question:D

And the other is being confirmed as the days pass, even when some thing good happens (like selling a car that has been for sale for ages) it can actually end up being quite bad, which is good as there is a potential lesson learned from some things that might at first seen to turn out bad if one takes time to reflect and be honest with ones self..Just need to keep the faith, and that faith will grow..

Any way suddenly find my self with more work i can shake a stick at, and that has to be good, even for a lazy yolk like my self..

Will try salah next, inshallah..And see if i can swap my bad habits for good ones...

[noraina]

Ok, after some reflection and contemplation i decided to look at a map and a compass, that answers that one stupid question:D

And the other is being confirmed as the days pass, even when some thing good happens (like selling a car that has been for sale for ages) it can actually end up being quite bad, which is good as there is a potential lesson learned from some things that might at first seen to turn out bad if one takes time to reflect and be honest with ones self..Just need to keep the faith, and that faith will grow..

Any way suddenly find my self with more work i can shake a stick at, and that has to be good, even for a lazy yolk like my self..

Will try salah next, inshallah..And see if i can swap my bad habits for good ones...

It wasn't a stupid question at all, lol. I was actually trying to find a reliable website for finding the qibla as I don't use any myself....I just use my trusty compass as well.

Even when something bad might happen to us, it is for the best. Allah swt is the greatest of Planners, and sometimes from our limited perspective we can think something happening to us is 'bad' when it's actually good. Again, a wonderful hadith to illustrate that point:

“Amazing is the affair of the believer, verily all of his affair is good and this is not for no one except the believer. If something of good/happiness befalls him he is grateful and that is good for him. If something of harm befalls him he is patient and that is good for him” (Saheeh Muslim #2999

And, believe me, when you begin reading salah you will only find your faith increasing further.

Well, I'm not going to beat about the bush here and come straight to the point :). If you believe there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is His Messenger, and that within Islam is a complete set of guidelines you would like to live your life by, why not say your Shahadah (the testimony of faith?)

From your words you just seem so close to truly 'believing' in Islam. There's no compulsion in religion of course, and if you have any doubts we'd be more than happy to address them here, but it is something worth thinking about, in'sha'Allah.

[beleiver]

Well, I'm not going to beat about the bush here and come straight to the point :). If you believe there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is His Messenger, and that within Islam is a complete set of guidelines you would like to live your life by, why not say your Shahadah (the testimony of faith?)

From your words you just seem so close to truly 'believing' in Islam. There's no compulsion in religion of course, and if you have any doubts we'd be more than happy to address them here, but it is something worth thinking about, in'sha'Allah.

Thanks for your kind offer and asking what has been at the back of my mind for a while..I like the way you phrase it, as in guidelines rather than rules, and the fact you bring up that there is no compulsion in religion..It makes it more appealing put that way.

I suppose i have said in my improvised prayers that i believe in the one God Allah, and that Mohamed is his messenger..But not with the intention of becoming a Muslim, and for me intention is what counts..It is some thing at the back of my mind i can not deny..But i do still have doubts.

InshaAllah I will articulate those doubts so you can address them if you will..

If i testify to being a Muslim it makes me part of a large community or brotherhood? I suppose my main doubt is whether i would be accepted in that community due my interpretation of the Quran and understanding of certain issues might mot be inline with the mainstream view and might be at odds with scholars interpretations.

The other discussion i joined on this forum is a prime example..My interpretation and understanding still stands on the subject, but may be the issue i should be really discussing is what does Haram actually mean and how should it be enforced?
Are people permitted to use force and aggression to prohibit something another does to his own body that causes no harm to another?
Can people punish others if they are not a victim? or is it encouraged to punish people for victim less crimes?
If the only victim is the accused and he only harmed him self and potentially God, then surely God the most powerful force in the universe will do the punishing?

I simply can not understand how any community can live in peace while one person can tell another under threat of force what they can and cant do to their own body..Be it what clothes they wear,or whether they listen to music,or one sex goes out unaccompanied with another from the opposite sex or segregation of sexes..
I know there is dispute with some of these issues and certain sects push this hyper conservative strict set of rules that are very unpopular with the many and , these sects are becoming the most influential with the schools of influence they can buy with their petrodollars..

I have read the Quran about twice now and have my doubts whether the Muslim community in general is listening to and is guided by Gods word or second hand stories that Gods messenger allegedly said..

As Jesus and Mohamed both said , dont worship or obey us we are just messengers of God, obey God and no one else..Now that is what ressonates with me, so surely whats written in Quran is all that really matters?
If so, and I felt i would be welcomed into the Muslim community and not be judged by what i might consume, rather by my actions and deeds then i would say Shahadah right now..

I would like to thank you again for your time and patience and giving me the opportunity to raise these points, here is probably a better place than the other thread for now.. may Gods blessings be upon ye..

[noraina]

Thanks for your kind offer and asking what has been at the back of my mind for a while..I like the way you phrase it, as in guidelines rather than rules, and the fact you bring up that there is no compulsion in religion..It makes it more appealing put that way.

I suppose i have said in my improvised prayers that i believe in the one God Allah, and that Mohamed is his messenger..But not with the intention of becoming a Muslim, and for me intention is what counts..It is some thing at the back of my mind i can not deny..But i do still have doubts.

InshaAllah I will articulate those doubts so you can address them if you will..

Apologies for being so late, I hadn't realise you had replied.

Even as someone who is born a Muslim, doubts can sometimes creep into our mind. But it is important to understand that as people we have a rather limited perception, we can probably just see a couple of pixels here and there, but it is Allah swt who can see the whole picture and so when sets specific guidelines and commands, it is taking these into account.

Islam is an extremely rational religion, but a major part of any religion is faith. While most parts of Islam are quite easy to understand, it is when we have difficulty rationally explaining something that faith comes into play. When our limited logic as a human fails to understand God's law, we use our faith to inherently *know* that it is the best for us. That's what makes religion different from science - it isn't dependant on 'observable evidence' or our confined cultural perceptions.

If i testify to being a Muslim it makes me part of a large community or brotherhood? I suppose my main doubt is whether i would be accepted in that community due my interpretation of the Quran and understanding of certain issues might mot be inline with the mainstream view and might be at odds with scholars interpretations.

The other discussion i joined on this forum is a prime example..My interpretation and understanding still stands on the subject, but may be the issue i should be really discussing is what does Haram actually mean and how should it be enforced?
Are people permitted to use force and aggression to prohibit something another does to his own body that causes no harm to another?
Can people punish others if they are not a victim? or is it encouraged to punish people for victim less crimes?
If the only victim is the accused and he only harmed him self and potentially God, then surely God the most powerful force in the universe will do the punishing?

There are so many points to address here. But one thing I must say, there is one central understanding of the Qur'an and Sunnah - and as a Muslim community, as brothers and sisters to one another, it is our duty to gently remind each other to remain on the firm path.

With the different schools of thought, there is some difference of opinion on minor issues. But there is also a general agreement on most major issues and as Muslims we follow that general agreement. As lay Muslims, we shouldn't really be having our own opinions when it comes to practical matters of law. In a country like the UK, we want qualified judges to preside over the courts and qualified teachers to teach our children - not just anyone. And the same applies to Islamic law, those who have spent years studying are the ones qualified to 'teach' us regarding specific laws and rulings. If every one of us applied our own 'interpretation' of the Qur'an, there would be chaos.


And about enforcing haraam. People have greatly misunderstood Shariah laws as a kind of mob force which lynches sinners left right and centre. Nothing could be more wrong. It is a thorough and rigorous evidence-based system of justice. Yes, Muslims have abused it, but that's their own weakness. When someone does something to their own body, this is between them and Allah if they keep this sin to themselves. However, if this person goes out, telling everyone about their sin and seeking to justify it, that is when intervention is required. For example, someone may drink alcohol, if they don't go round advertising what they've done, they can't be punished by the authorities simply because nobody would know, but if they go around encouraging this harm to others, that's when someone might need to step in.

And I'll say this - when I say intervention it is by the authorities. As Muslims we aren't allowed to punish just anyone we see sinning, this is up to the official justice system, like in any other country.


I felt from that 'other' thread you were trying to read a little too much into the meaning the of Qur'anic verses - just read those verses without and 'lens' or 'filter', in'sha'Allah you'll see what they mean.

I have read the Quran about twice now and have my doubts whether the Muslim community in general is listening to and is guided by Gods word or second hand stories that Gods messenger allegedly said..

As Jesus and Mohamed both said , dont worship or obey us we are just messengers of God, obey God and no one else..Now that is what ressonates with me, so surely whats written in Quran is all that really matters?
If so, and I felt i would be welcomed into the Muslim community and not be judged by what i might consume, rather by my actions and deeds then i would say Shahadah right now..

These 'second hand stories' are something entirely different to the 'hadiths' which as Muslims we abide by. In the Qur'an, we are told by the word of Allah to follow the 'sunnah' of the Prophet Muhammad :saws: So when the word of God tells us to follow the example of the Prophet, which is know only via hadiths, then surely that is a form of obeying Him. And we don't exactly 'follow' hadiths, we use them to further our understanding of the Qur'an.

There are Muslims who may twist the truth, terrorists and despicable organisations like IS are an example, but they take many things way out of context and they have associated a very negative label with 'traditional' Islamic scholarship.

You will certainly be welcomed by the Muslim community, and even before you take your shahadah, you would be more than welcomed to discuss any issues or doubts you may have with any Muslims in your neighbourhood or local mosque. I think you'll feel a lot more certain once you have erased any doubts you have.

I would like to thank you again for your time and patience and giving me the opportunity to raise these points, here is probably a better place than the other thread for now.. may Gods blessings be upon ye..

And upon you. :)

[beleiver]

Thank you again Noraina for your very rational reply..

I feel the need to clarify my position on Drugs in general so you and anyone reading may better understand where i am coming from.
I lived a kind of alternative lifestyle and have been well exposed to the drug scene..Lost many friends and family to alcohol, heroin, pharmaceuticals and combination of them all , but never saw any serious damage if any from even abuse of Cannabis..Though the family member will be a statistic against cannabis which couldn't be farther from the truth, he was another victim on the war on drugs , i have no doubt.

Now i dont want to promote cannabis or any drugs but just share my truth..
I first made contact with what i can only assume was God after a long period of no drugs around 16 years ago, i had previously spent years stoned all day every day and little time without..Since that time my life changed a great deal, i never gave it up but treated it with a different kind of respect..I have since experimented with meditation, mindfulness and prayer with and without drugs, cannabis being the only one i experimented with in a spiritual sense..
After a few years it became evident that continual smoking blocked that direct contact with God but didn't sever it all together..When people habitually smoke they loose the high and just smoke to feel normal or happy, which imho is a sin.
As the years went by i smoked less and less and found my connection to God grow, i have gone months without a smoke, then smoked purely to mediate and pray as an experiment to see if that 'high' you can only get when you haven't smoked for ages might in fact help that connection to God..Some of my most profound unexplainable synchronicity , affirmations have happened this way..It has been some of these experiences that brought me here and led me read the Quran.
Now of course do the same with alcohol or other damaging substance that covers the mind, like heroin and its not happening:facepalm:

After all my experience and observations, what you say above is instinctively how best i believe to deal with the issues of drugs or victim less crimes in general..Gently remind other to stay on the right path..As i have been doing and probably loosing friends, telling them they are wasting their time and money getting stoned day in day out, that they are better of finding their natural high, to try meditation, prayer and find God and respect the sacred herb, smoke it to get high , not to feel normal, if they find God and they wont need it..
Same with a smack/crack head in the town openly telling the youth how cool taking heroin is, time for some one to step in and have a word imho..

Will finish by saying i agree with the scholars, purity or mind is best of all to be closer to God, there is no doubt..

But spare a thought for the lost souls out there that have no direction, no god fearing community to guide them, the ones constantly bombarded with Satans propaganda, deception and lies and the struggle of living in the material debt based soulless world that doesn't care, the people brought up with tainted corrupt religions who turned away from God ..Those that take substances that open the mind rather than close it are the ones that might actually find the Truth one day..
Many, many people i know whether born again Christians, JWs, or Muslim converts are Ex Stoners or tripp heads, may be they will find the truth on their own, who knows , as God draws to him who he will..He knows best.

So these are the kind of lenses and filters i read the Quran with, I was not stoned for a long while when i read it, but marveled at the words used, and warnings given..

There are a load more issues and pointers that certain mind opening natural plants in Gods creation he might of intended for us to use in some circumstances one day, but alas i do not have time and really wanted to simply share my experiences and explain why this subject matters to me..

BTW , Its been two weeks now, I have done the night prayer every night, only missed one..I have managed at least one prayer in the day, up to three and feel like i am reaping the rewards..
Have been smoking less tobacco too and have thought about quitting that for the first time in years..

Still not learned the Arabic or the Salah, but feel its something to work towards, inshalla..

Spent some time reading about the science of the Hadiths, very interesting and raises questions best left for another day..

Till then , May Gods blessings be upon you..

[Reminder]

It sounds like you are too focused on cannabis/drugs in general.

The only thing I still wonder about is cannabis.

As far as I know, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) never used it.

With that said, I haven't come across ANY record which explicitly forbids marijuana.

The closest hadith for this topic is one concerning intoxicants.

It says do not consume intoxicants.

Keyword: TOXIC

Is marijuana toxic?

Many people would say no.

Marijuana can both heal and hurt the body.

Although it does more healing than hurting for most.

If anything, it is toxic to the mind.

IslamQA says marijuana is definitely haram.

[beleiver]

Thank you for your input Reminder.

I try not to be too focused on Cannabis, I very seldom smoke it..What i am trying to do is put my doubts on embracing Islam into context.
My doubts being how is victim less haram treated in Islam?
Is the wests war on Drugs(humanity) popular among Muslims or should the problems drugs cause be treated differently, with more compassion, education and understanding?
The other being how far do we listen to scholars? Should we not listen to our hearts and minds and reflect and contemplate our experiences with gods guidance? Or is the word of the Scholars supreme? But wouldn't that be accepting partners with Allah, when we are told to listen to and obey only God?

We could go round and round in circles debating whether Cannabis is Toxic, even though aspirin and pharmaceuticals kill people every day, yet there are no known deaths in all recorded history due to cannabis intoxication..There are thousands of uses for the hemp plant other than medicinal and spiritual uses that have been known for thousands of years..There could indeed be a conspiracy among petro chemical and pharmaceutical multinational corporations to prohibit a cheap easy alternative that we could all profit from..But i dont have time to waste debating these issues for now.


This is not really the issue i want to discuss but rather who do we listen to regarding whats a sin and what isnt..
I think i read the question on IslamQA, to me it didn't address the assertion it is not Toxic, or the fact its safe effective medicine for many many people..
I dont know who is behind IslamQA , even if they are the most qualified scholars, i dont know them, surely i should listen to God through praying and reflection and contemplation and seek divine guidance, not people i dont know who claim to speak for him or act as his partner?

To clarify, i am not trying to promote drugs, nor saying to complete reject what scholars say, I actually agree that once the connection to God is made purity of the mind in its most natural state is best...And i most certainly agree habitual use of Cannabis is a sin.
I am just trying to find out what the general consensus is to my questions and doubts..

May Gods blessings be up you..

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