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aaj
02-11-2017, 07:00 PM
:salam:


The Prophet :saws: said the follow regarding the taweez:

It was narrated that ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever wears an amulet, may Allaah not fulfil his need, and whoever wears a sea-shell, may Allaah not give him peace.”

(Narrated by Ahmad, 16951)


It was narrated from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir al-Juhani that a group came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) [to swear their allegiance (bay’ah) to him]. He accepted the bay’ah of nine of them but not of one of them. They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, you accepted the bay’ah of nine but not of this one.” He said, “He is wearing an amulet.” The man put his hand (in his shirt) and took it off, then he (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) accepted his bay’ah. He said, ‘Whoever wears an amulet has committed shirk.”

(Narrated by Ahmad, 16969)


They are haram in Islam. Details are available here: https://islamqa.info/en/10543

------------------

With that said, there are some scholars who have said that some taweez are halal and some are haram.

Among them is Imam Ibn Taymiyya.

In his fatwa, he said :

Hanging or wearing of amulets (ta’wiz) is normally permissible for protection or healing provided certain conditions are met:

1) That they consist of the names of Allah Almighty or his attributes;

2) That they are in Arabic;

3) That they do not consist of anything that is disbelief (kufr);

4) The user does not believe the words have any affect in themselves, but are empowered to do so by Allah Most High.
It is narrated from Amr ibn Shu’ayb, from his father, from his grandfather (Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas (Allah be pleased with them all), that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) used to teach them (the Sahabas) for fearful situations the following words:

“I seek refuge in Allah’s perfect words from His wrath, the evil of his servants, the whispered insinuations of devils, and that they come to me”

More can be read here: https://ahlussunnahwaljamah.blogspot...-in-islam.html

However, I'm willing to bet that 99% of the taweez do not meet those conditions. They have some sort of shirk involved. Look up taweez videos online and shaikhs opening up these taweezs given by so called maulanas exposing the haram in them.

---------------------------------------

So where does that leave us ?

Shayhk Ibn Baaz sheds proper light on the matter:


Q 3: What is the ruling on amulets consisting of words of the Qur'an or other things?
A:Amulets made of elements other than the words of the Qur’an, such as bones, talismans, cowrie shells, wolf hair and the like are all evil and Haram (prohibited) by the Nas (Islamic text from the Qur’an or the Sunnah). It is not permissible to hang them on anybody or anything, because the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Anyone who wears an amulet, may Allah not fulfill it (i.e., their purpose) for them, and anyone who wears a cowrie shell, may Allah not give them peace. According to another narration, he (peace be upon him) said: Anyone who wears an amulet has committed Shirk (associated others with Allah in His Divinity or worship).


On the other hand, if the amulets consist of words of the Qur’an or well-known good supplications, this is a controversial matter among the scholars. Some of them said that such amulets are permissible. This opinion was reported from a group of the Salaf (righteous predecessors) who likened it to reciting Qur’an and saying supplications over the sick seeking healing.


Other scholars said that it is not permissible. This is the opinion known to be held by `Abdullah ibn Mas`ud andHudhayfah (may Allah be pleased with them), as well as a group of the Salaf and the Kalaf (righteous successors). They said that it is not permissible to tie amulets even if they are words of the Qur’an in compliance with the principle of Sadd-ul-Dhara’i` (blocking the means leading to sins) and to forestall acts of Shirk and act upon the general meaning of the Hadiths. The Hadiths that prohibit amulets are general and make no exception. Muslims should abide by the general ruling. Therefore, it is basically not permissible to use any kind of amulets so that people do not use other types of amulets, thus leading to confusing matters.

(Part No. 1; Page No. 52)

It is obligatory to prohibit all types of amulets. This is the soundest opinion for the obvious evidence supporting it.

If we permit the use of amulets made from the Qur’an and good supplications, it will open the door for people to wear any form of amulets they like. Then, if they are reproved for what they do, they will say that they are amulets consisting of the Qur’an or good supplications. Consequently, the door will be opened, the cut will widen, and all types of amulets (whether words of the Qur’an or otherwise) will be worn.


There is another reason for their prohibition, which is the fact that people may enter the bathroom and other unclean places while wearing them. It is well known that the Words of Allah are too sacred to be in such places, and it is inappropriate to take them into the bathroom.
http://www.alifta.net/Fatawa/FatawaS...llowingHadith:
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Scimitar
02-11-2017, 07:14 PM
the old wisdom rings true here:

When in doubt - refrain.

Sound advice.

Scimi
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azc
02-11-2017, 07:49 PM
"Amr ibn Shu'aib (may Allah be pleased with him) said that 'Rasulu'llah(may Allah bless him and grant him peace) taught my father and grandfather a du'a which we would read before going to sleep, to protect us from fear and anguish. We told our elder children to recite this du'a before going to sleep as well. But for those children who were not yet literate, we would write it and then put it around their necks" [Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal vol.2,Abu Dawud, in 'Chapter of Medicine']
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azc
02-11-2017, 07:55 PM
Ahadith of musnad ahmad which prohibit wearing taweez are doubtful in this matter as imam Ahmad b hambal ra himself allowed Quranic taweez and according to usool of muhaddisin if the narrator acts against his own narration then the ahadith gets weak.
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shafat10
02-13-2017, 04:48 AM
Though some scholars said that amulets containing verses of the Quran and such are Halal, but that's a weak argument and the argument of those who said that all types of amulets are Haram are correct. Because there is Sahih Hadith where the Prophet said that: "Anyone who wears an amulet has committed Shirk". He didn't specify what amulet, it was a general statement, so based on the Hadith we can say that it is Haram. Plus, if it was a good thing, then do you think the Prophet would have never told us about it? He would, but he didn't, so that indicates that there is no necessity of such. Hence the opinion of the other group of scholars saying that all types of amulets are Haram, is more correct and the right ruling on this situation.
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azc
02-13-2017, 10:12 AM
I don't think so. I think we see no imam of khairul quroon who was of this opinion that even quranic taweez is haram. The ahadith prohibit it are related to wearing tama'im which was the practice of mushrikeen of makka. Most likely this is the statement of modern age scholars who find quranic taweez haram. However, neither wearing taweez is essential nor is the guarantee of shifa unless Allah swt wills
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aaj
02-13-2017, 03:05 PM
Bro,

I caution you to promoting and defending this so blindly. Even if there were taweez made upon the condition ibn Tammiyah put forth, more than likely 99% of those conditions are not being met and the taweez have shirk involved. You are not a scholar or an expert in this to be taking one side so strongly. Anything you promote and others take part in it because of you, you bear the sin of it as well. Listen to senior scholars, as ibn Baaz said "It is obligatory to prohibit all types of amulets. This is the soundest opinion"
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Scimitar
02-13-2017, 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by azc
I don't think so. I think we see no imam of khairul quroon who was of this opinion that even quranic taweez is haram. The ahadith prohibit it are related to wearing tama'im which was the practice of mushrikeen of makka. Most likely this is the statement of modern age scholars who find quranic taweez haram. However, neither wearing taweez is essential nor is the guarantee of shifa unless Allah swt wills

Brother,

taweez is haraam.

You can wear one all you like - on the day of judgement you can justify your attachment to man made things having some sort of power related to Allah.

Shirk - in the simplest sense .


Sunnah is preserved by the majority - and only the minority use taweez.

Scimi
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azc
02-13-2017, 05:30 PM
Neither I wear taweez nor encourage others to wear but I never say that Quranic taweez are haram and how I can say when I know the doings and sayings of salaf regarding this issue. Like Hz ibn Umar RA, Hz ibn abbas RA, abdullah bin amr RA, imam saeed b musayyib ra, imam mujahid ra, imran ahmad b hambal ra etc let alone sh ibn taimiyya ra or sh ibn qayyim ra. I know they could never do or endorse any haram act.http://askimam.org/public/question_detail/27445
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azc
02-13-2017, 05:35 PM
@aaj : it's been discussed in detail: https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.wordp...taweezamulets/
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Scimitar
02-13-2017, 05:43 PM
I remain unconvinced of the arguments put forth by scholars endorsing the use of taweez - they contradict the actions and advice of the prophet pbuh.

I don't follow the sahabi RA - I follow the prophet pbuh.


Scimi
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noraina
02-13-2017, 05:58 PM
Assalamu alaykum,

From my knowledge, wearing a taweez is suggesting you believe that this 'amulet' can protect you from harm or bring blessings to you, and this is a form of shirk.

The beauty of Islam is in the purity of its message - we rely on Allah swt alone for help, protection, guidance, we don't need *any* intermediaries in order to reach Him, and certainly not an amulet.

And many times the taweez is written by some dodgy 'pir', who is not even literate in Arabic and doesn't know what he is writing.
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azc
02-13-2017, 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
I remain unconvinced of the arguments put forth by scholars endorsing the use of taweez - they contradict the actions and advice of the prophet pbuh.I don't follow the sahabi RA - I follow the prophet pbuh.You prefer Chinese whispers - I get it.Scimi
Astaghfirullah ! I can never imagine to say '' I don't follow sahabi RA''. For we are instructed by Allah swt and Rasul s.a.w to follow them. They are the best generation of this ummah. Who can be more truthful and more knowledgeable and more Allah fearing than them. Who can understand Quran and teachings of the prophet s.a.w better than them..? Is it Us...!...??? astaghfirullah! You are advised to keep in mind: ''Ma ana alaihi wa as'habi'' is the right path.
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aaj
02-13-2017, 07:57 PM
Follow and justify what you may, I'll say it one last time.


Prophet :saws1: said, ‘Whoever wears an amulet has committed shirk.”

and made the dua, “Whoever wears an amulet, may Allaah not fulfill his need..."


End of discussion.
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azc
02-14-2017, 02:42 AM
Originally Posted by noraina
Assalamu alaykum, From my knowledge, wearing a taweez is suggesting you believe that this 'amulet' can protect you from harm or bring blessings to you, and this is a form of shirk. The beauty of Islam is in the purity of its message - we rely on Allah swt alone for help, protection, guidance, we don't need *any* intermediaries in order to reach Him, and certainly not an amulet. And many times the taweez is written by some dodgy 'pir', who is not even literate in Arabic and doesn't know what he is writing.
:wa: I've already clarified these points you've raised. Would you bother to read other post as well...
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azc
02-14-2017, 04:04 AM
Originally Posted by aaj
Follow and justify what you may, I'll say it one last time. Prophet :saws1: said, ‘Whoever wears an amulet has committed shirk.” and made the dua, “Whoever wears an amulet, may Allaah not fulfill his need..."End of discussion.
this post has already been replied. :sl:
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azc
02-14-2017, 03:19 PM
If you want to prove something, post some evidences from quran or ahadith and see what the views of the salaf are about that controversial issue.
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azc
02-14-2017, 03:31 PM
If you want to prove any thing you should convince me with evidences from Quran and sunnah... I'm quoting the opinion of sahaba ikram RA and other aslaf... Were they wrong..?
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Scimitar
02-14-2017, 03:36 PM
The evidence is clear - it is unaninous - and needs no further explaining:

Prophet :saws1: said, ‘Whoever wears an amulet has committed shirk.”

and made the dua, “Whoever wears an amulet, may Allaah not fulfill his need..."

You not only attempt to ignore these two ahadeeth but you attempt to abrogate them from what you believe the sahabi RA said. The hadeeth regarding the Prophet pbuh talking of amulets are VERY SOUND - yet the hadeeth attributed to sahabi were "hearsay" and not subject to the same stringent collation and authentication as the ahadeeth of the Prophet pbuh.


Scimi
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ardianto
02-14-2017, 03:38 PM
In Indonesia taweez used only among the "traditionalist" Muslims, while "non-traditionalists" regard using taweez as mushrik. Taweez in Indonesia available not only in form of paper, but can be in other forms too.

When I still active in motocross racing one of my team-mate, who is traditionalist Muslim, used taweez in form of vest. He always wore this taweez vest under his racing jersey when he raced. But he used taweez not only on his body. One day he changed his motorcycle seat cover. And I was surprised when the cover removed because I saw the seat foam was full of Arabic letter and symbols. Yeah, bro, that was a taweez in form of motorcycle seat.
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Scimitar
02-14-2017, 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
...my team-mate, who is traditionalist Muslim, used taweez in form of vest. He always wore this taweez vest under his racing jersey when he raced. But he used taweez not only on his body. One day he changed his motorcycle seat cover. And I was surprised when the cover removed because I saw the seat foam was full of Arabic letter and symbols. Yeah, bro, that was a taweez in form of motorcycle seat.
Of course - by azc standard it's ok to sit on taweez because they are taweez - they disrespect the ayaat of the Qur'an and sit on them. Expel gas on them. And even wear them into the toilets.

This - is shirk culture.

Scimi
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azc
02-14-2017, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
The evidence is clear - it is unaninous - and needs no further explaining:Prophet :saws1: said, ‘Whoever wears an amulet has committed shirk.” and made the dua, “Whoever wears an amulet, may Allaah not fulfill his need..."You know what is really dodgy about you?You not only attempt to ignore these two ahadeeth but you attempt to abrogate them from what you believe the sahabi RA said. The hadeeth regarding the Prophet pbuh talking of amulets are VERY SOUND - yet the hadeeth attributed to sahabi were "hearsay" and not subject to the same stringent collation and authentication as the ahadeeth of the Prophet pbuh.But you're ignorance is quite impressive - so - not surprised.You're in reverse gear thinking you're going forward.Scimi
these ahadith prohibit tama'im (beads] the practice of mushrikin. Quranic Taweez is a different thing. See Arabic hadith ''tama'im'' are prohibited
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azc
02-14-2017, 03:58 PM
See thie scan of hadith you've quoted ''tama'im'' are prohibited: https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files...28_page637.png
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Scimitar
02-14-2017, 04:00 PM
Wrong - it speaks of all amulets - it's a general statement to apply to all the items which fall under the category of "amulet" which would also include beads, and not just ayaat on paper - and nowadays - worse - ayaat sewn onto clothing:



This sickness has entered the commercial arena and is now pragmatically abused beyond repair.


Scimi

EDIT:

This is the opinion known to be held by `Abdullah ibn Mas`ud and Hudhayfah (may Allah be pleased with them), as well as a group of the Salaf and the Kalaf (righteous successors). They said that it is not permissible to tie amulets even if they are words of the Qur'an in compliance with the principle of Sadd-ul-Dhara'i` (blocking the means leading to sins) and to forestall acts of Shirk and act upon the general meaning of the Hadiths. The Hadiths that prohibit amulets are general and make no exception. Muslims should abide by the general ruling. Therefore, it is basically not permissible to use any kind of amulets so that people do not use other types of amulets, thus leading to confusing matters.

It is obligatory to prohibit all types of amulets. This is the soundest opinion for the obvious evidence supporting it.

If we permit the use of amulets made from the Qur'an and good supplications, it will open the door for people to wear any form of amulets they like. Then, if they are reproved for what they do, they will say that they are amulets consisting of the Qur'an or good supplications. Consequently, the door will be opened, the cut will widen, and all types of amulets (whether words of the Qur'an or otherwise) will be worn.

Source

Scimi
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azc
02-14-2017, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Wrong - it speaks of all amulets - it's a general statement to apply to all the items which fall under the category of "amulet" which would also include beads, and not just ayaat on paper - and nowadays - worse - ayaat sewn onto clothing:This sickness has entered the commercial arena and is now pragmatically abused beyond repair - keep promoting your need for taweez and this is the first cavity you will find in the rabbit hole - plenty more cavities hiding plenty more corruptions of the revealed verses for you to find there bro azc.But - you will choose your nepenthe, no matter what we show you as proof - I know your type.ScimiEDIT:
Scimi
Hz A'isha siddiqa RA was also of this opinion that tamimah and taweez both are different things. See this scan: (Sunan e Kubra Lil Behaiqi : vol 9 : pg 589) https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files...09_page589.png
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azc
02-14-2017, 04:27 PM
Those who transgress the shariah in any form are wrong. Like the man in image. Neither the aslaf allowed such act nor our ulama do. Taking money in lieu of selling taweez is also wrong and those make any show off or change it into a business are wrong. I strongly refute such people.
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Scimitar
02-14-2017, 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by azc
Hz A'isha siddiqa RA was also of this opinion that tamimah and taweez both are different things. See this scan: (Sunan e Kubra Lil Behaiqi : vol 9 : pg 589) https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files...09_page589.png

This is the opinion known to be held by `Abdullah ibn Mas`ud and Hudhayfah (may Allah be pleased with them), as well as a group of the Salaf and the Kalaf (righteous successors). They said that it is not permissible to tie amulets even if they are words of the Qur'an in compliance with the principle of Sadd-ul-Dhara'i` (blocking the means leading to sins) and to forestall acts of Shirk and act upon the general meaning of the Hadiths.


Source

Originally Posted by azc
Those who transgress the shariah in any form are wrong. Like the man in image. Neither the aslaf allowed such act nor our ulama do. Taking money in lieu of selling taweez is also wrong and those make any show off or change it into a business are wrong. I strongly refute such people.
Read the following:

The Hadiths that prohibit amulets are general and make no exception.

Muslims should abide by the general ruling. Therefore, it is basically not permissible to use any kind of amulets so that people do not use other types of amulets, thus leading to confusing matters.

It is obligatory to prohibit all types of amulets. This is the soundest opinion for the obvious evidence supporting it.

READ:

If we permit the use of amulets made from the Qur'an and good supplications, it will open the door for people to wear any form of amulets they like. Then, if they are reproved for what they do, they will say that they are amulets consisting of the Qur'an or good supplications. Consequently, the door will be opened, the cut will widen, and all types of amulets (whether words of the Qur'an or otherwise) will be worn.

Source

Scimi
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azc
02-15-2017, 01:54 AM
@Scimitar : Are you really qualified to give this decision like a judge....??? Brother, you failed to prove your point. So far your discussion proves that you see the issues superficially. I advise you to study Quran and ahdith....... Prove that Hz Abdullah b Masud RA or any other sahabi RA or any other muhaddis or mufassir or faqih HAD EVER DECLARED THAT QURANIC TAWEEZ ARE HARAM...... GIVE SCAN PAGE TO PROVE YOUR CLAIM.
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ardianto
02-15-2017, 02:25 AM
@azc

Bro, is okay if you wrote some Quranic aayah on paper then put it in your pocket, because this is not taweez. But taweez is different. Taweez is not just a paper with Arabic letters writen on it, but a form of amulet that filled with mantra (magic spell). That's why taweez can be made only by qualified person.

Taweez originally came from animism belief, an ancient belief that worshiping nature and unseen creature that lived on it. Animists people believe that amulet have power. So they made amulet including in form of symbols and letters that written on a media. This custom became a part of culture. Later when Islam came to people in these cultures they did not leave this custom, but modified it. They replaced the symbols and letters with Arabic letters which taken from Qur'an. They replaced mantra into Quranic aayah and dua. This is the origin of taweez.

I am not an aleem in Islamic knowledge. But I learn cultures, and that's what I found from what I have learned.
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azc
02-15-2017, 02:26 AM
IMAM SHAIBI RH (who met 500 sahaba ikram RA) ALLOWED TAWEEZ: Imam Ibn Maeen Rh. –> Ibn Abi Zayeda Rh. –> Ibn Abi Khalid Rh. –> Firaas Rh. –> Imam Shaibii Rh.......(Juz e Saani Min Hadees e Yahiya Ibn Maeen : Safa 215, Raqm no 159) see scan page:https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files...85_page216.png
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azc
02-15-2017, 02:44 AM
@ardianto : I respect your views though but how the ulama e mutaqaddimin or mutakhkhirin defined it is as I'm on. Moreover, my ulama who do I follow don't encourage people to wear even quranic taweez. Brother, as far as the hurmat and hillat of the matter being discussed is concerned the final decision isn't taken superficially, rather incorporating all the concerned dala'il are taken into consideration, furthermore, on the basis of dalail qatai hukm emanates and manifested.
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azc
02-15-2017, 02:59 AM
Hafiz ibn hajar clarified that ''taweez and blow'' the quranic ayat is simply a source of shifa in case Allah swt wills. See this scan he also allowed it(Fathul Baari : vol 10 : page 195)https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files...ge196-copy.png
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azc
02-15-2017, 03:10 AM
Imam Ahmad b hambal rh would write taweez and allowed it(Tibbe Nabawi : page 277)https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files...age278.pngImam imam ahmad b hamabli rh allowed it and said that Hz Ibn Abbas RA would allow it (ibid)https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files...ge278-copy.png
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azc
02-15-2017, 03:23 AM
Imam ahmad b hambal allowed it.(Tibbe Nabawi : page 276) scan page:https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files...278-copy-2.png (ibid) another scanhttps://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/d8a7d984d8b7d8a8-d8a7d984d986d8a8d988d98a_page278-copy-3-copy.png Another narration of imam ahmad b hambal rh: https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files...opy-2-copy.png
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azc
02-15-2017, 07:09 AM
@Scimitar :
The Hadiths that prohibit amulets are general and make no exception.
It's been refuted by evidences
Muslims should abide by the general ruling.
this tone displays as if you were an established jurists
Therefore, it is basically not permissible to use any kind of amulets so that people do not use other types of amulets, thus leading to confusing matters.
if it's recommended then acceptable
It is obligatory to prohibit all types of amulets. This is the soundest opinion for the obvious evidence supporting it.
perhaps you don't know that definitive evidence is needed to declare any act as obligatory, even speculative evidence doesn't work here let alone any weak narrations
If we permit the use of amulets made from the Qur'an and good supplications, it will open the door for people to wear any form of amulets they like. Then, if they are reproved for what they do, they will say that they are amulets consisting of the Qur'an or good supplications. Consequently, the door will be opened, the cut will widen, and all types of amulets (whether words of the Qur'an or otherwise) will be worn.
who is ''we''. Even scholars aren't authorised to use ''we'' in this context
you will no doubt repeat the same dribble without consideration of what I have pointed out to you
I'm not interested to enlarge this thread
namely that your way allows for shirk to manifest and you unwittingly leave the door open for it - while claiming you refute such people - you don't, you just give them more reason to use talisman and commit shirk
. Indirectly you are making allegations on aslaf.
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MuslimInshallah
02-16-2017, 01:50 AM
Assalaamu alaikum,

(smile) Perhaps the following may be of help:

Is it Permissible to Use Amulets to Deflect Evil Eye?

SEPTEMBER 22, 2014 BY SEEKERSHUB ANSWERS


Answered by Shaykh Faraz Rabbani

Question: Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Is it permissible to use amulets (i.e. hang) to deflect evil eye?

Answer:Assalamu alaikum,

It is permitted to use ta`wizes (amulets) as a means to protect oneself, while knowing that Allah is the only one who protects or benefits.

In the Musannaf of Imam Abu Bakr ibn Abi Shayba, the permissibility of hanging a ta`wiz is reported from many of the Companions and early Muslims (Salaf), including:
Sa`id ibn al-Musayyib, `Ata’, Mujahid, Abd Allah ibn `Amr, Ibn Sirin, `Abayd Allah ibn Abd Allah ibn `Umar, and others (Allah be well pleased with them all). [Musannaf, 5.439]

As for that which is reported from some, including Ibn Mas`ud (Allah be pleased with him), that hanging ta`wizes is shikr, this is understood to mean those that resemble the one’s used in Jahiliyya, or if used thinking that it is the ta`wiz itself that cures or protects, not Allah, or if it contains impermissible invocations or one’s whose meaning is not known, as explained by Allama Abu Sa`id al-Khadimi in his al-Bariqa al-Mahmudiyya Sharh al-Tariqa al-Muhammadiyya. [4.171-172]

In the Fatawa al-Hindiyya, one of the primary references in the Hanafi school, it says:

“There is nothing wrong with hanging ta`wizes, but one should take them off before going to the toilet and before intercourse.” [5.356]

In the Mawsu`a Fiqhiyya(Awqaf, Kuwait), it states that, the linguistic meaning of ta`wiz is derived from seeking protection or refuge. The type that is prohibited is the like the one’s used in pre-Islamic times, is a major sin and can even lead to disbelief. The type that is permitted according to the vast majority (jumhur) of the scholars is that which is made from the Words of Allah (Qur’an) or His Names, with the condition that the person not think that it has any effect by itself; rather, it protects or heals by the Will and Power of Allah.

And Allah knows best.

Wassalam,

Faraz Rabbani

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2014/09/22/is-it-permissible-to-use-amulets-i-e-hang-to-deflect-evil-eye/

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aaj
02-16-2017, 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum,

(smile) Perhaps the following may be of help:
It is not. When the Prophet :saws1: was affected by sihr, he used surah falaqn not taweez. After the revelation of Surah Falaq and Nas, those were the only means he used against sihr and hasad.

Who is faraz rabbani? Is he above ibn Baaz in scholarship?


Originally Posted by azc
It's been refuted by evidences
You are refuting hadtih with evidence of of bareli scholars? Seriously?

You are saying the scholars and their evidence is above the Prophet and his words. Need I remind you that the sunnah/hadith are wahi from Allah. The hadith i quoted are general to encompass all kinds of taweez, no ifs and buts. He didn't say quran taweez were allowed, he would have mentioned that. By refusing to believe this and blindly continue to defend your stance, you are calling the Prophet a liar and saying he did not fully deliver the message and fulfill the trust. That is what you are indirectly accusing him of by saying your barelvi or any other scholars you bring to "refute" this hadith. Not to mention what good are all your taweez when the Prophet :saws1: made dua to Allah that your needs never be met if you use taweez. Do you think this taweez is on par with Allah and will still get your needs met?

Either you have too much pride or too much blindness to let this go. No imam or scholar is above the Prophet :saws1:
Reply

azc
02-16-2017, 06:35 PM
@aaj : brother, if you are serious to discuss this topic further, then plz prove the authenticity of ahadith you've quoted.
Reply

azc
02-16-2017, 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
:salam:The Prophet :saws: said the follow regarding the taweez:It was narrated that ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever wears an amulet, may Allaah not fulfil his need, and whoever wears a sea-shell, may Allaah not give him peace.” (Narrated by Ahmad, 16951) It was narrated from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir al-Juhani that a group came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) [to swear their allegiance (bay’ah) to him]. He accepted the bay’ah of nine of them but not of one of them. They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, you accepted the bay’ah of nine but not of this one.” He said, “He is wearing an amulet.” The man put his hand (in his shirt) and took it off, then he (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) accepted his bay’ah. He said, ‘Whoever wears an amulet has committed shirk.” (Narrated by Ahmad, 16969) They are haram in Islam. Details are available here: https://islamqa.info/en/10543------------------With that said, there are some scholars who have said that some taweez are halal and some are haram. Among them is Imam Ibn Taymiyya. In his fatwa, he said : Hanging or wearing of amulets (ta’wiz) is normally permissible for protection or healing provided certain conditions are met:1) That they consist of the names of Allah Almighty or his attributes;2) That they are in Arabic;3) That they do not consist of anything that is disbelief (kufr);4) The user does not believe the words have any affect in themselves, but are empowered to do so by Allah Most High.It is narrated from Amr ibn Shu’ayb, from his father, from his grandfather (Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas (Allah be pleased with them all), that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) used to teach them (the Sahabas) for fearful situations the following words:“I seek refuge in Allah’s perfect words from His wrath, the evil of his servants, the whispered insinuations of devils, and that they come to me”More can be read here: https://ahlussunnahwaljamah.blogspot...-in-islam.htmlHowever, I'm willing to bet that 99% of the taweez do not meet those conditions. They have some sort of shirk involved. Look up taweez videos online and shaikhs opening up these taweezs given by so called maulanas exposing the haram in them. ---------------------------------------So where does that leave us ?Shayhk Ibn Baaz sheds proper light on the matter: http://www.alifta.net/Fatawa/FatawaS...llowingHadith:
sh ibn baaz may be a good scholar though but the status of sh ibn qayyim rh and sh ibn taimiyya rh is much higher let alone Imam ahmad b hamabli rh. Now it's better to prove the authenticity of evidences.
Reply

azc
02-16-2017, 06:53 PM
@aaj :
some scholars who have said that some taweez are halal and some are haram.Among them is Imam Ibn Taymiyya. In his fatwa, he said : Hanging or wearing of amulets (ta’wiz) is normally permissible for protection or healing provided certain conditions are met
and what else is being proven here....?
Reply

MuslimInshallah
02-16-2017, 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
Who is faraz rabbani? Is he above ibn Baaz in scholarship?
Assalaamu alaikum Aaj,


(mildly) Perhaps you might want to look into who is this sheikh, and what he does.

(gently) But more importantly, it is necessary to realize that this idea that there is only one way to interpret Allah's Will, and that all other interpretations throw a person outside the fold of Islam is a very modern way of understanding Islam. The vast majority of Muslims all through the history of Islam since the days of the Prophet (SAWS) have been respectful of differences of opinion, and indeed, have seen them as a source of richness in understanding God's Will.

(gently) When the colonial powers came into Muslim lands, they killed many, many persons of knowledge. And then populations were vacuumed into modern factories of "learning", where they were taught the superiority of homogenization and mass production and consumption. (gently) And we Muslims, in our inculcated ignorance, started to apply these modern ideas to our deen, may Allah Forgive us and have Mercy on us.

(gently) We need to reconnect with our roots, with the great streams of thought and culture from the past. (smile) Not just Muslims, but all peoples in this world today. What we call "westernization" has little to do with the traditional cultures of the so-called "West". It is a homogenizing non-culturally-based force that has been destroying the connections between us- all of us, everywhere in the world-, trying to make us into identical little "products", and consumers of products. (mildly) Everyone around the world is feeling this. Where I live in Québec, the local people feel this unease, and are led to believe that the problem is Muslims. And in other parts of the world, people are being led to believe that the problem is "the West". But these are just red herrings. The true problem is our alienation from our cultures, from one another, from creation, as we are mass produced into mindless consumers, our loss and emptiness making us perfect receptacles to crave filling with material goods.

Modern mass-produced "Islam" is no different in this from mass-produced "pop culture". It is just as destructive and empty.

(gently) We need to reconnect with our roots - all of us. Whether we have English or Inuit or Syrian or Mendinka or whatever roots (and we may have more than one stream... and this is a richness, too)... we need to rediscover the beauty of our cultures, and rediscover the appropriateness of our cultures for the places they were formed in. (gently) And if our ancestors have moved from those places, then we need to evaluate what is appropriate for where and when we are now... and what is not.

And this needs to be done with our Islamic knowledge, too. Alhamdullillah, we do have some people of knowledge left who are connected with the past. (mildly) They may not have the backing of wealthy and influential persons and institutions... but they do exist. And we need to respect them, and learn from them. (gently) And we need to let go of the false security of mass-production... and open our hearts to the variety that God Created. (gently) He Created us different, so that we might learn and grow nearer to Him... that we might learn to worship Him to the very best of our capacities.

(mildly) If persons of knowledge have differences of opinion as to how to understand Allah's Will... then they are just exerting themselves as they ought, enriching us with their dialogue and efforts. (mildly) And then we are all free to examine what they say and make our decisions. (mildly) Because at the end of the day, it is we ourselves who are going to be Judged for what we did. And this, according to our understandings and intentions.

(smile) And as our great scholars of the past have said, after laying out their ideas... (my translation) however, only God truly Knows (والله أعلم).


(smile) God Bless you Aaj, for caring enough to try to understand His Will. And may Allah, the Forgiving, the Gentle, have Mercy on us, and Help us to reconnect to our roots and to one another.
Reply

ardianto
02-17-2017, 12:20 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum,

(smile) Perhaps the following may be of help:

Is it Permissible to Use Amulets to Deflect Evil Eye?

SEPTEMBER 22, 2014 BY SEEKERSHUB ANSWERS


Answered by Shaykh Faraz Rabbani

Question: Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Is it permissible to use amulets (i.e. hang) to deflect evil eye?

Answer:Assalamu alaikum,

It is permitted to use ta`wizes (amulets) as a means to protect oneself, while knowing that Allah is the only one who protects or benefits.

In the Musannaf of Imam Abu Bakr ibn Abi Shayba, the permissibility of hanging a ta`wiz is reported from many of the Companions and early Muslims (Salaf), including:
Sa`id ibn al-Musayyib, `Ata’, Mujahid, Abd Allah ibn `Amr, Ibn Sirin, `Abayd Allah ibn Abd Allah ibn `Umar, and others (Allah be well pleased with them all). [Musannaf, 5.439]

As for that which is reported from some, including Ibn Mas`ud (Allah be pleased with him), that hanging ta`wizes is shikr, this is understood to mean those that resemble the one’s used in Jahiliyya, or if used thinking that it is the ta`wiz itself that cures or protects, not Allah, or if it contains impermissible invocations or one’s whose meaning is not known, as explained by Allama Abu Sa`id al-Khadimi in his al-Bariqa al-Mahmudiyya Sharh al-Tariqa al-Muhammadiyya. [4.171-172]

In the Fatawa al-Hindiyya, one of the primary references in the Hanafi school, it says:

“There is nothing wrong with hanging ta`wizes, but one should take them off before going to the toilet and before intercourse.” [5.356]

In the Mawsu`a Fiqhiyya(Awqaf, Kuwait), it states that, the linguistic meaning of ta`wiz is derived from seeking protection or refuge. The type that is prohibited is the like the one’s used in pre-Islamic times, is a major sin and can even lead to disbelief. The type that is permitted according to the vast majority (jumhur) of the scholars is that which is made from the Words of Allah (Qur’an) or His Names, with the condition that the person not think that it has any effect by itself; rather, it protects or heals by the Will and Power of Allah.

And Allah knows best.

Wassalam,

Faraz Rabbani

http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2014/09/22/is-it-permissible-to-use-amulets-i-e-hang-to-deflect-evil-eye/
Assalamualaikum MuslimInshallah.

Since you have active in forum for more than two years I can recognize your character. That's why I was surprised when seemed like you pro to taweez usage through posting what you have posted above. But then I remember that you are not from nation where taweez widely used. So I guess that you actualy don't know about taweez [smile].

Taweez is not just a paper with Arabic letters written on it, like poster of Asmaul Husna or sticker of aayah Qursi that you can see on the wall in the Muslim houses. But taweez is storage media of supernatural power. Taweez can work only after it filled with ‘power’ by qualified taweez maker. Not every Muslim can fill taweez. To become qualified taweez maker someone must perform several rituals such as fasting for 40 days, perform special salah, recite zikir that can be one million times (it’s true), etc. The purpose of these rituals is to make this person has supernatural ability.

The way to fill and activate a taweez is through recite dua which is combination of aayah and dua that usualy contain tawazul with Muslim figures in the past. Dua that recited are varies, depend on the purpose of this taweez. Yes, taweez is not multi purpose, but made with specific purpose. There is taweez to protect from jinn, there is taweez to make someone easy to get a job, or easy to get spouse, there is taweez to make a store get many buyers, there is taweez to help an athlete win sport competition, etc.

Why people use taweez?. Its because they believe on the supernatural power of taweez. They believe in Allah, but they feel unsure if they just make dua. They need something powerful that they can carry with them, that can protect them or give them easiness to get what they want.

This is a little information about taweez that I can tell you [smile].
Reply

MuslimInshallah
02-17-2017, 01:58 PM
Assalaamu alaikum Ardianto,


(smile) No, I do not use such items. And it should be noted that the sheikh I quoted is also Canadian (alhamdullilah that we begin to have people of knowledge in Canada- may Allah Bless all those who are struggling to learn and share their learning!).

It is interesting what you say about these amulets in Indonesia. I think, if you read the fatwa I quoted, you will see that the sheikh is neither giving a blanket endorsement nor a blanket rejection of people having things that help them feel more secure... for the simple reason that different people may do things differently, and understand things differently.

(smile) I remember as a young woman, I was absolutely terrified of travelling by airplane. But it was necessary one day that I do so. To give me the strength I needed to overcome this fear, I took the copy of the Qur'an (with translation and tafseer) I had with me in my hand luggage- even though it was a rather heavy and bulky book! Of course, everything comes from God. And all that happens is by His Will. (smile) Nonetheless, having the Qur'an with me comforted me, as I held it on the plane.

As I grew older, I no longer needed the physical copy of the Qur'an to reassure me. But I did acquire a little pendant with the word: Allah. And for quite a few years, I wore this constantly round my neck, as a reminder for me, and as a symbol of my identity as a Muslim. (smile) And yes, I also touched it when I was afraid.

(smile) I no longer need anything. But I recognize that others may be like my younger self, and need something to reassure themselves sometimes. Does this mean I support the use of items to use as spells? No, definitely not. But I feel that rather than blindly condemning people and throwing them out of the House of Islam, it is necessary to look at others with a more complete understanding, and with... well, love. Our Ummah is in such a state of ignorance and dissension, we need to gently increase our own knowledge, and lovingly disseminate it. (mildly) Did not God, in the days of the Sahaba, teach us our Islam through His Prophet (SAWS) slowly and gently and kindly? And did this not bring great unity?


May Allah, the Almighty, the Real, Strengthen us in our efforts to be kinder with one another.
Reply

Scimitar
02-17-2017, 03:40 PM
Astagfirullah - you say taweez are netiher haraam nor halaal sister.

Compromised opinions are not scholarly.

From azc's favourite source, IslamQA - I do wonder why he ignores the following:

The view that amulets are not allowed even if they contain words from the Qur’aan is the view of our shaykhs:

The scholars of the Standing Committee said: The scholars are agreed that it is haraam to wear amulets if they contain anything other than Qur’aan, but they differed concerning those which do contain Qur’aan. Some of them said that wearing these is permitted, and others said that it is not permitted. The view that it is not permitted is more likely to be correct because of the general meaning of the ahaadeeth, and in order to prevent means of shirk.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz,
Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan,
Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Qa’ood.

(Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/212)

Your brelwi scholars pale in comparison to these Shaykhs - and your brelwi scholars permit worship at graves.

Bro, azc, wake up. Open your eyes.

Scimi
Reply

ardianto
02-17-2017, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Astagfirullah - you say taweez are netiher haraam nor halaal sister.
Maybe sister MuslimInshallah still cannot definite that taweez is halal or haram. But at least it's better than say halal or haram without knowledge.

:)
Reply

Scimitar
02-17-2017, 04:04 PM
You don't have that knowledge, or sought it, clearly bro Ardianto. Neither has she, it is obvious by her posts.

I have.

For many MANY years and now I am learning Rukya Shariah also due to my interest.

Taweez is NOT a part of rukya shariah.

But destroying them is.

Scimi




shame on you who speak with no knowledge and promote the haraam thru your lack of understanding.
Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
02-17-2017, 04:18 PM
Those who wear taweez and justify it with "this cannot protect me but it is a means of protection because I believe in Allah and His revelation" have committed minor shirk.

The Prophet pbuh said he feared for the Ummah the minor shirk, described it like a black ant crawling on a black stone on a moonless night - hard to detect.

Y'all better recognise the application.

Don't take my word for it.



Scimi
Reply

Scimitar
02-17-2017, 05:21 PM
Silence of the sheep :D

Scimi

EDIT:

Bro azc, what do you make of your opinion now after watching what the scholars have said about the issue?


Scimi
Reply

aaj
02-21-2017, 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum Aaj,

(gently) But more importantly, it is necessary to realize that this idea that there is only one way to interpret Allah's Will, and that all other interpretations throw a person outside the fold of Islam is a very modern way of understanding Islam. The vast majority of Muslims all through the history of Islam since the days of the Prophet (SAWS) have been respectful of differences of opinion, and indeed, have seen them as a source of richness in understanding God's Will.
:wasalam:

From your initial post and your response, it seems clear that you did not read the original post. Otherwise, you would have not accused me of promoting one way only and all other ways as haram.

Let me share key point from the original post.


" Other scholars said that it is not permissible. This is the opinion known to be held by `Abdullah ibn Mas`ud and Hudhayfah (may Allah be pleased with them), as well as a group of the Salaf and the Kalaf (righteous successors).

It is obligatory to prohibit all types of amulets. This is the soundest opinion. "
Reply

azc
02-21-2017, 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Silence of the sheep :DScimiEDIT:Bro azc, what do you make of your opinion now? After watching what the scholars have said about the issue - do you still foster your hindu opinion of taweez?Or will you now adopt the Muslim one?Scimi
Quranic taweez is HALAL....... Which scholars you are talking about, bro.? I hardly trust modern age scholars....
Reply

azc
02-21-2017, 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
Astagfirullah - you say taweez are netiher haraam nor halaal sister.Compromised opinions are not scholarly.From azc's favourite source, IslamQA - I do wonder why he ignores the following:The view that amulets are not allowed even if they contain words from the Qur’aan is the view of our shaykhs: The scholars of the Standing Committee said: The scholars are agreed that it is haraam to wear amulets if they contain anything other than Qur’aan, but they differed concerning those which do contain Qur’aan. Some of them said that wearing these is permitted, and others said that it is not permitted. The view that it is not permitted is more likely to be correct because of the general meaning of the ahaadeeth, and in order to prevent means of shirk. Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Qa’ood. (Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/212) Your brelwi scholars pale in comparison to these Shaykhs - and your brelwi scholars permit worship at graves.Bro, azc, wake up. Open your eyes. Don't be a fool.Scimi
I know what the issue is, bro......
Reply

Scimitar
02-21-2017, 07:27 PM
You prefer to entertain that which is doubtful as permissible - got it.

Way to go - naat.

You've ignored all the points I bought up due to your inability to actually tackle those head on and instead you've tried to turn the discussion into waters that become even more muddier.


Scimi
Reply

azc
02-21-2017, 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by Scimitar
You prefer to entertain that which is doubtful as permissible - got it.Way to go - naat.You've ignored all the points I bought up due to your inability to actually tackle those head on and instead you've tried to turn the discussion into waters that become even more muddier.Scimi
lana aamaluna wa lakum aamalukum......
Reply

MuslimInshallah
02-22-2017, 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
:wasalam:

From your initial post and your response, it seems clear that you did not read the original post. Otherwise, you would have not accused me of promoting one way only and all other ways as haram.
Assalaamu alaikum Aaj,


(mildly) I was not referring to the OP, but to your post regarding the opinion given by the scholar from Seekershub, Faraz Rabbani. I myself know little about these things, but I searched for some clarity from a source that is reliable. I apologize if I hurt you.

(mildly) And my post was not so much to you, but was exploring some ideas that I have been researching and thinking about of late- that of the rigidity in the modern era as contrasted to the flexibility that was the hallmark of Islam in traditional times. (pensively) Indeed, it is not just understandings of Islam that have been affected by this rigidity; it seems to be a feature of modernity. (smile) But these are thoughts in progress. Perhaps I am mistaken.


May Allah, the Merciful, Forgive us when we realize we have erred, and turn to Him with humble hearts.
Reply

aaj
02-22-2017, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum Aaj,


(mildly) I was not referring to the OP, but to your post regarding the opinion given by the scholar from Seekershub, Faraz Rabbani. I myself know little about these things, but I searched for some clarity from a source that is reliable. I apologize if I hurt you.

(mildly) And my post was not so much to you, but was exploring some ideas that I have been researching and thinking about of late- that of the rigidity in the modern era as contrasted to the flexibility that was the hallmark of Islam in traditional times. (pensively) Indeed, it is not just understandings of Islam that have been affected by this rigidity; it seems to be a feature of modernity. (smile) But these are thoughts in progress. Perhaps I am mistaken.


May Allah, the Merciful, Forgive us when we realize we have erred, and turn to Him with humble hearts.
:wasalam:

inshallah all is well.

may Allah forgive us all and bless us with hidaya and understanding of the deen.
Reply

azc
02-23-2017, 12:02 PM
@Scimitar :
You prefer to entertain that which is doubtful as permissible
No, it's not doubtful. Actually demarcation of rulings are transgressed by some people and their followers whether they are pro taweez or anti taweez
You've ignored all the points I bought up
Which definitive evidence you gave..?....you need to understand how the ruling is established by jurists. What you quoted aren't related to the concerned issue explicitly. But you don't understand it
due to your inability to actually tackle those head on and instead you've tried to turn the discussion into waters that become even more muddier
No, it's the inability of the people to understand the issue in academic manner. I put tens of evidences to clarify each point of the matter. I clarified that tamimah and taweez both are different, I clarified that ahadith are related to tamimah, not to taweez. You people don't understand this that if fatwas of modern day scholars are accepted then sahaba ikram like Hz abdullah bin abbas ra, Hz abdullah bin umar ra, Hz a'isha siddiqa ra, Hz abdullah bin amr ra etc all other sahaba ikram ra who allowed others or wrote quranic taweez themselves will be declared (ma'azallah) as if they're involved in this haram practice...
Reply

azc
02-23-2017, 01:23 PM
@aaj :
" Other scholars said that it is not permissible.
which scholars...? None but modern age scholars
This is the opinion known to be held by `Abdullah ibn Mas`ud and Hudhayfah (may Allah be pleased with them),
Prove that both sahaba ikram DECLARED QURANIC TAWEEZ HARAM (quote original text, preferably scan page)
as well as a group of the Salaf and the Kalaf (righteous successors)
Prove it WHICH SALAF AND KHALAF DECLARED QURANIC TAWEEZ HARAM ...? (give evidence)
Reply

aaj
02-23-2017, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by azc
@aaj : which scholars...? None but modern age scholarsProve that both sahaba ikram DECLARED QURANIC TAWEEZ HARAM (quote original text, preferably scan page) Prove it WHICH SALAF AND KHALAF DECLARED QURANIC TAWEEZ HARAM ...? (give evidence)

Since you can't let it go, this is haram and bidah. The hadith of the prophet :saws1: supersedes ALL the proof and scholars you bring forth. The hadith is clear and general, meaning to includes ALL types of taweez.

since you can't follow the jammah and the consensus of the scholars and the soundest opinion among the scholars and wants to go fatwa/scholar shopping till you find one that promotes your bidah.

Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidah
Prove to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did this
Prove to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: )
Reply

azc
02-23-2017, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
Since you can't let it go, this is haram and bidah. The hadith of the prophet :saws1: supersedes ALL the proof and scholars you bring forth. The hadith is clear and general, meaning to includes ALL types of taweez.since you can't follow the jammah and the consensus of the scholars and the soundest opinion among the scholars and wants to go fatwa/scholar shopping till you find one that promotes your bidah.Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidahProve to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did thisProve to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: )
so you can't prove what you have claimed... It should be known to you that there was NO CONSENSUS OF SCHOLARS ON QURAN TAWEEZ BEING HARAM.... AND YOU CAN'T PROVE IT.... It also shows that you can't do academic discussion... the AHADITH WHICH HAVE BEEN QUOTED FOR ITS PROHIBITION CAN'T BE PROVEN AS AUTHENTIC... You have no deep knowledge of this issue...
Reply

MuslimInshallah
02-23-2017, 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
Since you can't let it go, this is haram and bidah. The hadith of the prophet :saws1: supersedes ALL the proof and scholars you bring forth. The hadith is clear and general, meaning to includes ALL types of taweez.

since you can't follow the jammah and the consensus of the scholars and the soundest opinion among the scholars and wants to go fatwa/scholar shopping till you find one that promotes your bidah.

Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidah
Prove to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did this
Prove to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: )

Assalaamu alaikum Aaj,

(gently) Do you realize that you are issuing a fatwa yourself? Please be careful, because one who declares something haraam is taking a great burden upon him or herself. Because it is something that you will be held accountable for on the Day of Judgement. The people of knowledge have traditionally been very reluctant to declare things as haraam, because of this. This is why they speak of other categories (such as recommended or neutral or disliked), not just halal and haraam.

Obviously, there is not a scholarly consensus on various different sorts of items that people may use to comfort themselves. And the proof of this is that there are different fatawa from different scholars in this topic. From what I have been able to understand, some forms are prohibited, but others are not.

(mildly) Neither you nor I are scholars, Aaj. I honour your passion and devotion to your Lord, but we must be careful not to overstep into what might be harmful for us in the end. Can we not offer the different fatawa by the scholars we know of, and let them speak for themselves? (smile) Of course, we may find one opinion more compelling than another, and decide that we personally will abide by that one. But we can respect that another person may feel differently? (smile) Perhaps he or she is at another place in their journey towards Allah than ourselves? (mildly) Can we not be gentle with our believing brothers and sisters... even if they stumble?


Pay God, the Almighty, Forgive us and Guide us ever closer to Him.
Reply

aaj
02-23-2017, 03:24 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum Aaj,

(gently) Do you realize that you are issuing a fatwa yourself? Please be careful, because one who declares something haraam is taking a great burden upon him or herself.
:wasalam:

Thank you for pointing that out. I guess its not scholarly consensus as much as what is the soundest opinion among the scholars.


Originally Posted by azc
so you can't prove what you have claimed... It should be known to you that there was NO CONSENSUS OF SCHOLARS ON QURAN TAWEEZ BEING HARAM.... AND YOU CAN'T PROVE IT.... It also shows that you can't do academic discussion... the AHADITH WHICH HAVE BEEN QUOTED FOR ITS PROHIBITION CAN'T BE PROVEN AS AUTHENTIC... You have no deep knowledge of this issue...
Let me break it down for you once again.

It was narrated from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir al-Juhani that a group came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) [to swear their allegiance (bay’ah) to him]. He accepted the bay’ah of nine of them but not of one of them. They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, you accepted the bay’ah of nine but not of this one.” He said, “He is wearing an amulet.” The man put his hand (in his shirt) and took it off, then he (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) accepted his bay’ah. He said, ‘Whoever wears an amulet has committed shirk.” (Narrated by Ahmad, 16969)

This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 492.



The scholars of the Standing Committee said:


The scholars are agreed that it is haraam to wear amulets if they contain anything other than Qur’aan, but they differed concerning those which do contain Qur’aan. Some of them said that wearing these is permitted, and others said that it is not permitted. The view that it is not permitted is more likely to be correct because of the general meaning of the ahaadeeth, and in order to prevent means of shirk.


Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Qa’ood.

(Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/212)

I left it at that for the readers, but you just don't want to let it go and continue to fight over this. So....


Take all the scholars out of the equation. Go back to the original source. No scholar is above the prophet and the 4 righteous caliph that followed him. Unless you disagree?

No?

Then

Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidah
Prove to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did this
Prove to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: )

I don't care which scholar said it's not allowed and which one said it's allowed. They are only students, their teachers are the ones above. Prove to me the teachers approved of this!
Reply

azc
02-23-2017, 03:29 PM
@aaj @Scimitar : see consensus of 4 madhab on this issue:.... According to Hz sh ibn Taimiyya rh: Quranic taweez is allowed... (Majmu al Fatawa : vol 19 : page 64-65) scan page



According to Hz Imam Ahmad bin hambal rh: Quranic taweez is allowed.(Za’ad ul Ma’ad : vol 4 : page 327)
scan page


According to Hz Imam Shafi'i rh: Quranic taweez is allowed(Fathul Baari : vol 6 : page 142) scan page:


According to Hz imam Malik rh.a: Quranic taweez is allowed...(Al Majmua : vol 2 page 84) scan page:

According to Hz Imam Abu Hanifa rh: Quranic taweez is allowed(Kitaab ul Aasaar : vol 2 : page 758) scan page:
Reply

aaj
02-23-2017, 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by azc
@aaj @simi lar : see consensus of 4 madhab on this issue:.... According to Hz sh ibn Taimiyya rh: Quranic taweez is allowed... (Majmu al Fatawa : vol 19 : page 64-65) scan pagehttps://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/mfsiaitm19_page65.pngAccording to Hz Imam Ahmad bin hambal rh: Quranic taweez is allowed.(Za’ad ul Ma’ad : vol 4 : page 327)scan pagehttps://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/04_37675_page327.pngAccording to Hz Imam Shafi'i rh: Quranic taweez is allowed(Fathul Baari : vol 6 : page 142) scan page: https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files...2.pngAccording to Hz imam Malik rh.a: Quranic taweez is allowed...(Al Majmua : vol 2 page 84) scan page: https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files...4.pngAccording to Hz Imam Abu Hanifa rh: Quranic taweez is allowed(Kitaab ul Aasaar : vol 2 : page 758) scan page: https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files...ny_page769.png
Like I said,

Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidah
Prove to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did this
Prove to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)

I don't care which scholar said it's not allowed and which one said it's allowed. They are only students, their teachers are the ones above. Prove to me the teachers approved of this!
Reply

azc
02-23-2017, 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
Since you can't let it go, this is haram and bidah. The hadith of the prophet :saws1: supersedes ALL the proof and scholars you bring forth. The hadith is clear and general, meaning to includes ALL types of taweez.since you can't follow the jammah and the consensus of the scholars and the soundest opinion among the scholars and wants to go fatwa/scholar shopping till you find one that promotes your bidah.Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidahProve to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did thisProve to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: )
Originally Posted by aaj
:wasalam:Thank you for pointing that out. I guess its not scholarly consensus as much as what is the soundest opinion among the scholars.Let me break it down for you once again. It was narrated from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir al-Juhani that a group came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) [to swear their allegiance (bay’ah) to him]. He accepted the bay’ah of nine of them but not of one of them. They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, you accepted the bay’ah of nine but not of this one.” He said, “He is wearing an amulet.” The man put his hand (in his shirt) and took it off, then he (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) accepted his bay’ah. He said, ‘Whoever wears an amulet has committed shirk.” (Narrated by Ahmad, 16969) This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 492. The scholars of the Standing Committee said: The scholars are agreed that it is haraam to wear amulets if they contain anything other than Qur’aan, but they differed concerning those which do contain Qur’aan. Some of them said that wearing these is permitted, and others said that it is not permitted. The view that it is not permitted is more likely to be correct because of the general meaning of the ahaadeeth, and in order to prevent means of shirk. Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Qa’ood. (Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/212) I left it at that for the readers, but you just don't want to let it go and continue to fight over this. So....Take all the scholars out of the equation. Go back to the original source. No scholar is above the prophet and the 4 righteous caliph that followed him. Unless you disagree? No? ThenProve to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidahProve to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did thisProve to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: )I don't care which scholar said it's not allowed and which one said it's allowed. They are only students, their teachers are the ones above. Prove to me the teachers approved of this!
what I'm saying to you again and again that NO SCHOLAR FROM SALAF OR KHALAF DECLARED QURANIC TAWEEZ AS HARAM.... ONLY MODERN AGE SCHOLARS CLAIM THIS LIKE SH ALBANI, SH IBN BAAZ, SH UTHAIMEEN ETC it means only a set of scholars of this age is going against the CONSENSUS OF UMMAH...
Reply

azc
02-23-2017, 03:44 PM
@aaj :Prove the authenticity of ahadith by the statement of a'imma of ilm arrijal... I don't accept sh albani as one of them... Sorry... For your information ''Ibn Lahiya'' is the narrator of all these ahadith and HE WAS A WEAK NARRATOR.... Write the chain of narrator...
Reply

azc
02-23-2017, 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
Like I said,Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidahProve to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did thisProve to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)I don't care which scholar said it's not allowed and which one said it's allowed. They are only students, their teachers are the ones above. Prove to me the teachers approved of this!
It proves you a brainwashed and a blind follower of your OWN scholars as if ONLY THEY KNOW THE HADITH and REST ALL SCHOLARS OF THIS UMMAH, 4 IMAMS, MUHADDISIN EVEN HZ SAHABA IKRAM RA COULDN'T UNDERSTAND THIS ISSUE RATHER PERMITTED SHIRK AND DID SHIRK THEMSELVES BY WRITING QURAN TAWEEZ. (Ma'azAllah)... May Allah swt give you sound mind and sound knowledge. Ameen
Reply

aaj
02-23-2017, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by azc
@aaj :Prove the authenticity of ahadith by the statement of a'imma of ilm arrijal... I don't accept sh albani as one of them... Sorry... For your information ''Ibn Lahiya'' is the narrator of all these ahadith and HE WAS A WEAK NARRATOR.... Write the chain of narrator...
No scholar disputed sh albhani saying it's a sahih hadith. You are going to deny a sahih hadith now because you don't accept from a scholar? who happens to among the knowledgeable and respected scholars?

and you accuse others of blind following and brain washing? rather then the following the soundest opinion?

Originally Posted by azc
what I'm saying you again and again that NO SCHOLAR FROM SALAF OR KHALAF DECLARED TAWEEZ AS HARAM.... ONLY MODERN AGE SCHOLARS CLAIM THIS LIKE SH ALBANI, SH IBN BAAZ, SH UTHAIMEEN ETC it means only a set of scholars of this age is going against the CONSENSUS OF UMMAH...
First of all, there is NO consensus of the Ummah.

Secondly, sh uthaymeen and all the scholars you have been quoting are MODERN age scholars. So why are you crying about modern age scholars ?

thirdly, the no salaf or khalaf declared taweez as haram is a LIE. Do you even bother reading what we share here?

This was the view of Ibn Mas’ood and Ibn ‘Abbaas, and is the apparent meaning of the view of Hudhayfah, ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir and Ibn ‘Akeem (may Allaah be pleased with him).

This was also the view of a group of the Taabi’een, including the companions of Ibn Mas’ood and Ahmad, according to one report which was chosen by most of his companions.

There!

Not just salaf but the sahabah and uncle of the Prophet and the taabieen. The first 3 generations, regarded as the BEST of this ummah.

Now stop whining like kid and avoiding my request.


Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidah
Prove to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did this
Prove to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)
Reply

azc
02-23-2017, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
No scholar disputed sh albhani saying it's a sahih hadith. You are going to deny a sahih hadith now because you don't accept from a scholar? who happens to among the knowledgeable and respected scholars? and you accuse others of blind following and brain washing? rather then the following the soundest opinion? First of all, there is NO consensus of the Ummah. Secondly, sh uthaymeen and all the scholars you have been quoting are MODERN age scholars. So why are you crying about modern age scholars ? thirdly, the salaf or khalaf declared taweez as haram is a LIE. Do you even bother reading what we share here? This was the view of Ibn Mas’ood and Ibn ‘Abbaas, and is the apparent meaning of the view of Hudhayfah, ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir and Ibn ‘Akeem (may Allaah be pleased with him). This was also the view of a group of the Taabi’een, including the companions of Ibn Mas’ood and Ahmad, according to one report which was chosen by most of his companions. There! Not just salaf but the sahabah and uncle of the Prophet and the taabieen. The first 3 generations, regarded as the BEST of this ummah. Now stop whining like kid and avoiding my request. Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidahProve to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did thisProve to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)
You are proving nothing... Just writtin isn't enough... Sh albani is not reliable for non salafis... And I'm not a salafi... Since you are regurgating the same stuff without proving anything... So I take one by one... The ahadith you've quoted write their ''full Sanad''...
Reply

aaj
02-23-2017, 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by azc
You are proving nothing... Just writtin isn't enough... Sh albani is not reliable for non salafis... And I'm not a salafi... Since you are regurgating the same stuff without proving anything... So I take one by one... The ahadith you've quoted write their ''full Sanad''...
Like I said, forget all the scholars.

Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidah
Prove to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did this
Prove to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)
Reply

azc
02-23-2017, 06:56 PM
I think this thread has been discussed a bit long and both views have been posted on the board..... Now the members can conclude which is the correct view ...............Topic is over.
Reply

aaj
02-23-2017, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by azc
@aaj : No, brother, this is not the correct way of academic discussion where we, without being biased, can learn from each other. I asked you for chains of narrators of hadith but you couldn't give,.... so I, being your brother in Islam, wish to help you. E.g. Hadith of Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Okaim Rz. It is transmitted through different chains: Now see one ravi is Ibn Laila who is the main narrator of all the chains and he is weak you can see in taqreeb, tehzeeb, meezan, al kamal etc books of rijal. You may confirm it. Don't trust me or anybody else until you verify his status in narrating a hadith..... Now the thread has been discussed a bit long..... So I rest this discussion.... Wassalam....... Imam Ahmed Rh. — > Muhammed ibn Jafer Rh. — > Shoba Rh. — > Muhammed Yaani Ibn Abi Laila Rh. – > Isaa Rh. — > Abdullah Ibn Okaim Rh. — > Prophet SAW.(Musnad e Ahmed : vol 31 : page 81).........Imam Haakim Rh. — > Abul Abbas Muhammed bin Ahmed Al Mahboobi Rh. — > Saeed bin Masood Rh. — > Ubaidullah bin Musa Rh. — > Ibn Abi Laila Rh. – > Isa Rh. — > Abdullah Ibn Okaim Rh. — > Huzur SAW.(Mustadrak Al Haakim : vol 4 : page 341) .........Imam Tirmizi Rh. — > Muhammed Ibn Madduwai Rh. — > Ubaidullah bin Musa Rh. — >Muhammed bin Abdur rehman Bin Abi Laila Rh. — > Isaa Rh. — > Abdullah bin Okaim Rh. — > Huzur SAW.(Sunan e Tirmizi : vol 4 : page 403)
No brother, don't even bother. You who accuse others of "brainwashed and a blind follower of your OWN scholars" and yet refuse to listen to any other scholars besides the one that support your bidah. You who refuse to believe sahih hadith because they are not from YOUR scholars and you refuse to follow the SOUNDEST and most CORRECT opinion is going to talk to me about correct way of academic discussion?

No, I don't want an academic discussion. you and I are not scholars to debate on this. I told you before, the sahabas differed on this, the taa'bien differed on this and the scholars differed on this with scholars stating what is most sound opinion and I left it there. But you have been blindly adamant about promoting it as something halal and not letting it go, and yet REFUSE to answer the 3 simple requests and continue to ignore them. I follow the Quran and the Sunnah Inshallah, regardless of which scholar brings it to me. If it is sahih and authentic and is the soundest opinion then that is what I follow. You are lost and if that is where you want to be then we have nothing further to discuss.

And if you can't do the following then we're done here.

Like I said, forget all the scholars.

Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidah
Prove to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did this
Prove to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)
Reply

azc
02-23-2017, 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by aaj
No brother, don't even bother. You who accuse others of "brainwashed and a blind follower of your OWN scholars" and yet refuse to listen to any other scholars besides the one that support your bidah. You who refuse to believe sahih hadith because they are not from YOUR scholars and you refuse to follow the SOUNDEST and most CORRECT opinion is going to talk to me about correct way of academic discussion? No, I don't want an academic discussion. you and I are not scholars to debate on this. I told you before, the sahabas differed on this, the taa'bien differed on this and the scholars differed on this with scholars stating what is most sound opinion and I left it there. But you have been blindly adamant about promoting it as something halal and not letting it go, and yet REFUSE to answer the 3 simple requests and continue to ignore them. I follow the Quran and the Sunnah Inshallah, regardless of which scholar brings it to me. If it is sahih and authentic and is the soundest opinion then that is what I follow. You are lost and if that is where you want to be then we have nothing further to discuss. And if you can't do the following then we're done here. Like I said, forget all the scholars.Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidahProve to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did thisProve to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)
regurgating the same stuff is of no use. You have put your views on the board and I've done mine...... So Now let the other members decide which is the correct view.......
Reply

aaj
02-23-2017, 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by azc
regurgating the same stuff is of no use. You have put your views on the board and I've done mine...... So Now let the other members decide which is the correct view.......
No, I put BOTH views OF the scholars on the board. You brought your deoband and braveli scholars.

This is not a game. members don't decide which is the correct view. The scholars have stated which is the most correct view. yet you fail to pay heed.

And you failed to prove it is part of the Sunnah or something the Prophet and the the 4 Righteous Caliphs condoned, repeatedly choosing to ignore the request.
Reply

anatolian
02-23-2017, 08:43 PM
What about Jawshan? I remember a narration that the Prophet Aleyhisselam wore it in a battle, though not sure of the authenticity
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
02-28-2017, 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum Aaj,


(mildly) I was not referring to the OP, but to your post regarding the opinion given by the scholar from Seekershub, Faraz Rabbani. I myself know little about these things, but I searched for some clarity from a source that is reliable. I apologize if I hurt you.

(mildly) And my post was not so much to you, but was exploring some ideas that I have been researching and thinking about of late- that of the rigidity in the modern era as contrasted to the flexibility that was the hallmark of Islam in traditional times. (pensively) Indeed, it is not just understandings of Islam that have been affected by this rigidity; it seems to be a feature of modernity. (smile) But these are thoughts in progress. Perhaps I am mistaken.


May Allah, the Merciful, Forgive us when we realize we have erred, and turn to Him with humble hearts.
He believes it is permissible to ask the dead for help [istighaatha]. Are you sure you would want to take "guidance" from him on any matter?
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
02-28-2017, 01:56 AM
Originally Posted by anatolian
What about Jawshan? I remember a narration that the Prophet Aleyhisselam wore it in a battle, though not sure of the authenticity
Subhaan Allaah. Just yesterday I stumbled upon that and was reading about it. It is a Shia invention. Fabricated and falsely attributed to the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam).

https://islamqa.info/en/105378

http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...waId&Id=116232
Reply

MuslimInshallah
02-28-2017, 02:23 AM
Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
He believes it is permissible to ask the dead for help [istighaatha]. Are you sure you would want to take "guidance" from him on any matter?
Assalaamu alaikum Zeeshan,


(mildly) If you want to reference things he has said, then why not quote him (with source), along with any explanations for what he is saying, so that we can better understand what is his position? And then, if you feel that his opinions are incorrect, you could offer another scholar's perspective (with source), and his/her reasoning.

(smile) In this way, we can all learn more on this topic, inshAllah, in a manner that is, I believe, more pleasing to Allah.


May God, the Gentle, Guide us to goodness towards one another as we sincerely strive to understand His Will.
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
02-28-2017, 10:29 AM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum Zeeshan,


(mildly) If you want to reference things he has said, then why not quote him (with source), along with any explanations for what he is saying, so that we can better understand what is his position? And then, if you feel that his opinions are incorrect, you could offer another scholar's perspective (with source), and his/her reasoning.

(smile) In this way, we can all learn more on this topic, inshAllah, in a manner that is, I believe, more pleasing to Allah.


May God, the Gentle, Guide us to goodness towards one another as we sincerely strive to understand His Will.
So, you are admitting you do not know of his position of istighaatha?

Oh don't worry about quoting. Anyone who knows me knows Ill bring quotes for the Arabic, let alone English, someone else puts up. That is what I do.

I just want to know if you are ignorant of his positions and yet follow him?

Are you?
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
02-28-2017, 10:33 AM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum Zeeshan,


(mildly) If you want to reference things he has said, then why not quote him (with source), along with any explanations for what he is saying, so that we can better understand what is his position? And then, if you feel that his opinions are incorrect, you could offer another scholar's perspective (with source), and his/her reasoning.

(smile) In this way, we can all learn more on this topic, inshAllah, in a manner that is, I believe, more pleasing to Allah.


May God, the Gentle, Guide us to goodness towards one another as we sincerely strive to understand His Will.
What exactly do you mean by understanding His Will?

You think us humans with our knowledge which is like a drop in an ocean - not even that - to His will ever be able to encompass His Will or anything other than what He Himself tells us?
Reply

azc
02-28-2017, 11:43 AM
Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
What exactly do you mean by understanding His Will?You think us humans with our knowledge which is like a drop in an ocean - not even that - to His will ever be able to encompass His Will or anything other than what He Himself tells us?
bro, will you see what she has asked for in her post. Thanks
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
02-28-2017, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by azc
bro, will you see what she has asked for in her post. Thanks
As soon as she answers my questions Ill provide the reference. Like I said, if you give me an Arabic quote out of a book from 1000 years back without naming it, Ill find it for you.

Rabaani's issue with Istighaatha needs a simple Google search for those who do not know it. He has been in deep waters regarding it in the sight of those who abhor the concept.

But what is disturbing is that if someone is unaware of a stance of a person in matters of Aqiidah and Fiqh they are willing to follow him?
Reply

aaj
02-28-2017, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by ZeeshanParvez
But what is disturbing is that if someone is unaware of a stance of a person in matters of Aqiidah and Fiqh they are willing to follow him?
As one scholar said, the requirement of seeking knowledge from someone else is to know what their stance in matters of aqidah and fiqh. Sadly, majority don't know that and don't follow that ,which is why we have so many people today following modern celebrity sheikhs and even defend them adamantly while being ignorant of their beliefs. And we see the same thing on this forum as well in regards to sufi scholars and their teachings being spread, corrupting the aqeedah of others.
Reply

MuslimInshallah
02-28-2017, 11:43 PM
Assalaamu alaikum Zeeshan,


(mildly) What I was trying to say- gently- was that when we start speaking about others behind their backs, we may slide into either backbiting or slander. (gently) I apologize if I was not clear enough, but I did not want to embarrass you.

I am aware that there are people with different positions on many questions. (mildly) I prefer to look first at the character of a person, when thinking about their positions. Then I look at their training. And also their intentions.

I honour Faraz Rabbani, because he has devoted a considerable amount of his (and his family's) time and resources to trying to set up something that we very much need here in Canada- a place to find Islamic knowledge. An online institution, based in Canada. He has travelled overseas gaining knowledge, and he has brought it back here. To help all those who have little or no access to knowledge. To be able to respond to local needs in a culturally appropriate way. (mildly) This is a very worthy thing.

(mildly) You may disagree with his interpretations. And I invite you to offer the interpretations that you agree with. (smile) Perhaps we may all learn something? But we need to always remember that as Muslims we need to be mindful of what we say, and how we say it, when speaking of others...


May God, the Bestower of Peace, Help us to see the good in one another.
Reply

ZeeshanParvez
02-28-2017, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by MuslimInshallah
Assalaamu alaikum Zeeshan,


(mildly) What I was trying to say- gently- was that when we start speaking about others behind their backs, we may slide into either backbiting or slander. (gently) I apologize if I was not clear enough, but I did not want to embarrass you.

I am aware that there are people with different positions on many questions. (mildly) I prefer to look first at the character of a person, when thinking about their positions. Then I look at their training. And also their intentions.

I honour Faraz Rabbani, because he has devoted a considerable amount of his (and his family's) time and resources to trying to set up something that we very much need here in Canada- a place to find Islamic knowledge. An online institution, based in Canada. He has travelled overseas gaining knowledge, and he has brought it back here. To help all those who have little or no access to knowledge. To be able to respond to local needs in a culturally appropriate way. (mildly) This is a very worthy thing.

(mildly) You may disagree with his interpretations. And I invite you to offer the interpretations that you agree with. (smile) Perhaps we may all learn something? But we need to always remember that as Muslims we need to be mindful of what we say, and how we say it, when speaking of others...


May God, the Bestower of Peace, Help us to see the good in one another.
Just a reminder. When you warn someone against someone behind their back for deviance it is not considered backbiting. There is a complete list of places and situations where ones actions would not be considered backbiting. Warning against an individual misleading people on a given issue is one of those exceptions.

Rather than I reinvent the wheel you can read about it here with references from the Qur'aan and Sunnah.

And you can read about istighaatha being utterly wrong here.
Asking for madad from anyone other than Allaah, as mentioned in the question, is a kind of calling upon (or making du’aa’ to) someone other than Allaah, hence it is a kind of shirk.
Reply

AbdurRahman.
03-03-2017, 09:59 PM
lets see a more detailed 'other side of the story':

http://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa/8596
Reply

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