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View Full Version : Help me understand this men/women logic in Islam?



Kazu
02-16-2017, 11:41 PM
Hello and I hope everyone can accept me in this forum even though I'm not muslim. I have some questions for muslims and I do not mean to offend anyone with this post but intended to learn more about Islam. I'm referring to hadeeth by al-Bukhari,304 & 3241.

Both men and women in Islam get equal rewards for their good deeds regardless the gender roles, and get equal punishment for the same sin. Prophet Muhammad said he saw more women than men in hell, this is because of women's bad attributes that they are more inclined to be ungrateful towards their husbands, complains a lot, and curse frequently. Prophet Muhammad also said women are also deficient in intelligence and religious commitments than men, and prophet encouraged them to cover this by doing charity, which is a good thing I guess.

Now this is what I don't understand. Why would Allah create women with so many bad attributes and made them the majority of dwellers in hell? Firstly, with so many bad features installed in women, it is logical to say that it is easier for them to go to hell, and already there you have more women in hell. This doesn't sound like a fair test for both men and women because they need to be on the same level of intelligence and sanity to accept the same amount punishment for say a crime. You can say that this is not a problem because the prophet already encouraged these women to do charity to cover for their deficiency, but what if some women are not capable of doing this because of several reasons? (I understand charity is not only about money), and this doesn't negate the fact that the prophet just said women are this and that. The hadeeth logic is if women are less intelligent than men, that should make women less capable of making the right decisions in life. Shouldn't women get less punishment for being less clever than men? It really doesn't sound like a fair test if one gender is more inclined to perform actions that would lead them to the hellfire.

Secondly, I found what the prophet said really discouraging to women. For highly ambitious muslim women reading the hadeeth, they might feel less worthy or underappreciated knowing they will never be as good as men both in religion and career. Is this what Allah intended for women? And I've seen a lot, yes, A LOT of comments from muslim men whenever they see women do foolish/bad things, they always insult women by saying they are stupid because prophet said they have lesser intelligence and deen, and say that this is the reason why women are more in hell. Some said they are lucky not being born women. Basically using these types of hadeeths to mock. Does this hadeeth intended to give men free pass to look down on women, and to feel good and mostly fortunate for being men?

I found this part really flawed and appreciate if someone could help me understand this logic
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Umm♥Layth
02-17-2017, 12:54 AM
It's bedtime for me here, but I didn't want to leave without commenting.

There is a BIG problem with translations. Arabic is a very very dense language and an english translation doesn't do hadith or the Quran any justice. So please keep this in mind when reading hadith and Quran translations.

Also, the context of the hadith is very important, and one can only know context and historical happenings by reading the Seerah of the prophet (saw).

I assure you, Allah didn't create women with greater defects than men ;) Men and women need each other and are meant to be a team. What one lacks, the other has abundance in order to complete each other's faith. There is no way that Allah would make one gender less than the other. Afterall, the prophet (saw) said, the best of you are the ones who are best to your wives. Meaning, in order for a man to be considered among the best, he has to treat his woman in the best way possible, which takes some very serious character refinement. :statisfie

Hope I helped somehow.
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Simple_Person
02-17-2017, 04:48 PM
I myself love human psychology and ponder often about all sort of things. What i have found is that indeed the addition to the other half. As in Islam, when one marries, it is the fulfillment of their deen. When i have observed the behavior and read one or two things is that women do things that they themselves are not aware of. Not saying they are "stupid", absolutely not. What men lack, the woman indeed fulfill this. For example, looking at us brothers, we seriously lack this emotional side big time. I mean it took me quite sometime to grasp this emotional side of mine and "awakened" just a LITTLE bit. However, when there are moments that i totally lack the emotional side and see nothing emotional about a situation i see for example my sister and mother in tears... o_O?

I have had intellectual debates with women, but somehow they are more of the emotional side. No offence and not my intention to insult it, just sharing my observations.

Another observation that i noticed is the way they can deescalate situations. For me till now it is still a mystery so to say. This we men totally just lack. Also you see their side at their best when we talk about children. Women i don't know HOW, but when a child cries for example, she does exactly the same as a man, but somehow she achieves to calm down the child, while i have never seen men being able to do that. Is this the inner peace one must have or is it something else? Please educate me on this, as i really don't know it.

What i also have noticed is that they plan way ahead and think sometimes of things that we men haven't even thought of. The person who burdens the worries in a household is really a woman, although it is the job of the man to work. She always worries, while we men are seriously most of the time lacking in this ability. They even are better in the psychology of the people they talk to, without even being aware of it.

So saying that she is less intellectual, i am not sure if it is meant to say as how you have understood it. I can agree based on intellectual discussion, that they mostly lack, while intellectually on other things they don't. As an example, she wants to buy shoes. As a man, we say..honey, why do you need to buy new shoes again? You already have 5 pair shoes. Although she knows it, yet she wants also another one with it and she can't give a good argument why she needs to buy another pair..BUT SHE MUST buy them...o_O?

About more women in hell, it is as far as i have read those hadith, that she indeed is ungrateful when certain situations occur. Her husbands provides for her, but when something happens, she suddenly says you are NEVER..this or that. While that is not true. He might mess things up once or two times, but it is not never.
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M.I.A.
02-17-2017, 05:07 PM
god.. dont eat of this tree.

adam.. ok god.

eve.. eat of this tree

adam.. ok.

and so it begins... +_+ ...or maybe that should be x_x

so now i just blame the wife for everything "/

dodges chaplee.. bruce lees more dangerous cousin..

im kidding, i just think women are more open to being taken sometimes.

i once talked to a coworker (rare occurrence) i told her im sorry im not very talkative because im afraid of saying the wrong thing! appearing arrogent.. im not stuck up.

and then we got into a fight one day and up to the managers office we went..her and another lady coworker.

...hes arrogent and stuck up.. maybe she mentioned my other qualities too.. because you know.. im awesome like that. (pretty sure she can hear me sometimes O_O)

and that was the end of the job.


and iv never talked to women since.

the end.


i can only conclude women are dangerous.

im actually just effiecient.. until you draw my focus away.

somebody once said broads dont hit back.. i must have misheard him o_0
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Born_Believer
02-17-2017, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by Kazu
Hello and I hope everyone can accept me in this forum even though I'm not muslim. I have some questions for muslims and I do not mean to offend anyone with this post but intended to learn more about Islam. I'm referring to hadeeth by al-Bukhari,304 & 3241.

Both men and women in Islam get equal rewards for their good deeds regardless the gender roles, and get equal punishment for the same sin. Prophet Muhammad said he saw more women than men in hell, this is because of women's bad attributes that they are more inclined to be ungrateful towards their husbands, complains a lot, and curse frequently. Prophet Muhammad also said women are also deficient in intelligence and religious commitments than men, and prophet encouraged them to cover this by doing charity, which is a good thing I guess.

Now this is what I don't understand. Why would Allah create women with so many bad attributes and made them the majority of dwellers in hell? Firstly, with so many bad features installed in women, it is logical to say that it is easier for them to go to hell, and already there you have more women in hell. This doesn't sound like a fair test for both men and women because they need to be on the same level of intelligence and sanity to accept the same amount punishment for say a crime. You can say that this is not a problem because the prophet already encouraged these women to do charity to cover for their deficiency, but what if some women are not capable of doing this because of several reasons? (I understand charity is not only about money), and this doesn't negate the fact that the prophet just said women are this and that. The hadeeth logic is if women are less intelligent than men, that should make women less capable of making the right decisions in life. Shouldn't women get less punishment for being less clever than men? It really doesn't sound like a fair test if one gender is more inclined to perform actions that would lead them to the hellfire.

Secondly, I found what the prophet said really discouraging to women. For highly ambitious muslim women reading the hadeeth, they might feel less worthy or underappreciated knowing they will never be as good as men both in religion and career. Is this what Allah intended for women? And I've seen a lot, yes, A LOT of comments from muslim men whenever they see women do foolish/bad things, they always insult women by saying they are stupid because prophet said they have lesser intelligence and deen, and say that this is the reason why women are more in hell. Some said they are lucky not being born women. Basically using these types of hadeeths to mock. Does this hadeeth intended to give men free pass to look down on women, and to feel good and mostly fortunate for being men?

I found this part really flawed and appreciate if someone could help me understand this logic
Can you quote the actual hadiths which say women are less intelligent and can you provide the ocntext?

The reason I ask these specific questions is because you have to have a full, contextual understanding whenevery ou study anything, in particular Islam where every verse of the Quran and every section of hadith is based on what people were doing, asking, what the Prophet PBUH wanted to get across and what Allah wanted to get across along with many other aspects.

For Muslims to fully understand this, we read the Quran, study the hadiths and then study the tafsir (explanations) of each section.

With regards to the hadith on female intelligence you will find a very good and concise explanation (tafsir) here in it full context:

http://www.livingislam.org/k/wiha_e.html
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