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.alhamdulillah.
02-26-2017, 02:30 AM
To become a doctor or nurse in the west, during your training, eventually will not only have to examine the awrah of the opposite gender, but during some examinations you will also have to touch them in other places such is their face, hands, or legs....

So knowing this, would it be haram for me to become a doctor or nurse? Every time I go to islamqa the basic answer is that it is haram to see the awrah of a opposite gender, or even to shake hands with the oppoiste gender, so essentaily wouldn't it be haram to become a doctor or nurse in the west?

Same thing would apply with the phlebotomist no? Because you have to touch the arm of the opposite gender.

Here in the west we just don't have the ability to refuse treating the opposite gender....

So then would I be in sin and all of my earning haram if I were to pursue either of those careers?
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azc
02-26-2017, 05:46 AM
Does it help..? http://daruliftabirmingham.co.uk/mal...-muslim-woman/
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Born_Believer
02-26-2017, 11:14 AM
Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
To become a doctor or nurse in the west, during your training, eventually will not only have to examine the awrah of the opposite gender, but during some examinations you will also have to touch them in other places such is their face, hands, or legs....

So knowing this, would it be haram for me to become a doctor or nurse? Every time I go to islamqa the basic answer is that it is haram to see the awrah of a opposite gender, or even to shake hands with the oppoiste gender, so essentaily wouldn't it be haram to become a doctor or nurse in the west?

Same thing would apply with the phlebotomist no? Because you have to touch the arm of the opposite gender.

Here in the west we just don't have the ability to refuse treating the opposite gender....

So then would I be in sin and all of my earning haram if I were to pursue either of those careers?
First off, as a medical student myself, there are rare occassions where you would be asked to inspect and touch/feel/look at the awrah of a woman. During practice, almost all emd students divide up into groups of guys and girls anyway. Secondly, when you do finally start examining patients, you are oding it to learn and then to potentially save someone's life or at a bare minimum, improve it to a certain extent and hopefully removes their ailment. That is not haram, male or female.
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.alhamdulillah.
02-26-2017, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Born_Believer
First off, as a medical student myself, there are rare occassions where you would be asked to inspect and touch/feel/look at the awrah of a woman. During practice, almost all emd students divide up into groups of guys and girls anyway. Secondly, when you do finally start examining patients, you are oding it to learn and then to potentially save someone's life or at a bare minimum, improve it to a certain extent and hopefully removes their ailment. That is not haram, male or female.
But what about those instances where you are required to inspect the awrah of a women???

Also, are you a med student in the west??? Because here you have to go through a period delivering babies as part of the training.

And during many examinations you are at least touching the opposite gender on an arm, or leg, or something..... so isn't that haram......thus making becoming a doctor haram since you know you will have to do haram stuff???
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.alhamdulillah.
02-26-2017, 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by azc
See thing is,is that answer is only for a certain scenario where it is necessary. However it is not necessary for me to be a doctor, where I would be putting myself in those situations...
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Serinity
02-26-2017, 06:15 PM
:salam:

@huzaifah Ibn Adam

And Allah :swt: knows best.
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Good brother
02-26-2017, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
But what about those instances where you are required to inspect the awrah of a women???

Also, are you a med student in the west??? Because here you have to go through a period delivering babies as part of the training.

And during many examinations you are at least touching the opposite gender on an arm, or leg, or something..... so isn't that haram......thus making becoming a doctor haram since you know you will have to do haram stuff???
Salam alaikum

Any physician (male or female) has to properly examine the patient to reach a proper diagnosis. It's the same scenario if you are in a muslim-majority country. For example you will have to learn to catheterize your patient. It's a must. Available skilled nurses may do it but, if not, you shouldn't risk your own patient's life because of your ignorance.

Here is a question from questionsonislam.com:
Is it religiously permissible for a female doctor to treat a male patient?

The Answer:
It is obligatory for a person to maintain life and avoid things that may damage it.


People have the right even the duty to have a medical treatment when they become ill because the body itself is entrusted to people. In order to fulfil worshipping and other sorts of Islamic orders and prohibitions completely, the body needs to be in good health.
In case of an illness despite protection, a believer needs to have a medical treatment because, the Prophet ordered “O, the servants of Allah, have (medical) treatment (if necessary)”. ( see Tirmidhi, Tibb, 2; Abu Dawud, Tibb, 1, II; Ibn Majah, Tibb, 1; Ahmad b. Hanbal, III, 156, IV, 278)


As using medication, cleansing wound with surgical operation is included in treatment, operations like blood transfusion when necessary, extracting an organ which needs to be separated from the body are also included in treatment. A doctor can observe the private parts of the patient as much as necessary during an operation. However, for women, it is best to undergo treatment under the control of female doctors and nurses if possible because the Prophet (pbuh) has warnings as regards to this issue.


When the Honored Companions asked the Prophet (pbuh) “O the Apostle of God, should we also care to cover even when we are alone?, he replied “ there is no doubt that Allah deserves to be shown respect.” (Bukhari, Ghasl, 20; Tirmidhi, Adab, 22, 39; Ibn Majah, Wedding, 28).

Once, the Prophet (pbuh) went when to the place where the camels of zakat were. When he found the herdsman was naked under the sun, he dismissed him and stated : “A person without embarrasment cannot work for us” (as-Sarakhsi, ibid X,156)


However, it is not unobjectionable to look at the private parts of a man or a woman because of an excuse. For instance, it is permissible for a circumcissor to look at a male’s private part to perform circumcision; similarly, it is permissible in case of an illness. Moreover, during parturition, a midwife looks at the private part of a woman and if a female doctor is not available, a male doctor can carry out the treatment because the Prophet gives permission to a midwife to be available during parturition and bear witness for the birth if necessary. This includes looking at the private parts, too. (as-Sarakhsi, ibid X, 156)


As-Sarakhsi (death 460/1097) states his viewpoint on the matter of treatment of a woman by a male doctor: “If a woman is not available to treat a blister on another woman’s body and if it is not possible to teach a woman the exact way of treatment and if the woman is threatened to death or exhaustion due to this disorder or if the pain is unbearable, it is acceptable for the woman to uncover all the parts except the wound and a man to treat her medically. This man should avoid looking at other parts of the woman’s body except for the part he can help her because it is worse to gaze upon the body of the opposite gender. Here, the state of necessity is important. And it is a life-threatening situation. Even if such a situation arises, other parts apart from necessity are not acceptable to look at. (as-Sarakhsi, ibid X, 157)





Read this too:
http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...waId&Id=317464

Allah knows best.
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.alhamdulillah.
02-26-2017, 07:28 PM
@Good brother

See the thing is I totally understand the necessity thing, where to save someones life and such it is permissible.

But what about touching opposite gender on their arms or legs for an exam, or a broken limb??? In the west you simply will be in positions where you have to touch the face, arms, legs, of the opposite gender even if someone of their own gender is around...

If I become a phlebotomist, I will have to touch the opposite genders arms when sticking the needle in them and feeling for a vein....

So knowing that I will be in those positions, would it be haram for me to become a doctor...?????

Based on the link you provided at the end of your post, it seems like I should give up pursuing any of these careers... because I will be in positions where I have to touch the opposite gender without necessity...
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Muezzin
02-26-2017, 08:19 PM
So is becoming a doctor, nurse, or phlebotomist haram????
Short answer is no.
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.alhamdulillah.
02-26-2017, 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Short answer is no.
Well, from all the information I have gotten online with evidence, it really seems to point to that in the west it is haram.

Obviously the position of doctor, nurse, phlebotomist, is not haram in of itself, but the things required to do here in the west make it seem like it is....



My only side argument to some of it though is, in Islam we are not supposed to make something haram unless it is already haram, right? So when the Prophet did not shake hands with women.... that only means it is haram to shake hands with them... not to touch them on their arm, correct. Like is it okay to derive that touching a women is haram based on that he didn't shake hands with them, or is that making something that is not clearly haram, haram.
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Serinity
02-26-2017, 08:32 PM
:salam:

When trying to save someone's life, etc. Or to give them medical advice, etc. On say a serious disease, etc. Surely there will be Female doctors to take the part where it involves the awrah.

and if such a situation where there is only a male doctor at that specific time, and the disease is such, that it means life and death. The focus would be on treating the disease, and not sexual stuff.

That'd be messed up. But if such a circumstance where there is a possibility of temptation. In shaa' Allah, the seriousness of the situation would make you forget about it all, and focus on saving life, with Allah's permission. As only Allah can save life.

In short: you'd be too busy saving life, anyway.

Allahu alam.
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.alhamdulillah.
02-26-2017, 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by Serinity
:salam:

When trying to save someone's life, etc. Or to give them medical advice, etc. On say a serious disease, etc. Surely there will be Female doctors to take the part where it involves the awrah.

and if such a situation where there is only a male doctor at that specific time, and the disease is such, that it means life and death. The focus would be on treating the disease, and not sexual stuff.

That'd be messed up. But if such a circumstance where there is a possibility of temptation. In shaa' Allah, the seriousness of the situation would make you forget about it all, and focus on saving life, with Allah's permission. As only Allah can save life.

In short: you'd be too busy saving life, anyway.

Allahu alam.
I get what you are saying but I am looking for an answer on something as simple as, if I become a doctor or phlebotomist or nurse, I will be in positions where I have to do something as simple as touching the arm of the opposite gender.... wouldn't that be haram?

Thus making me becoming one of those things haram as well, knowing I would be in a situation like that?
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Zeal
02-27-2017, 03:33 AM
Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
I get what you are saying but I am looking for an answer on something as simple as, if I become a doctor or phlebotomist or nurse, I will be in positions where I have to do something as simple as touching the arm of the opposite gender.... wouldn't that be haram?

Thus making me becoming one of those things haram as well, knowing I would be in a situation like that?
Assalamu alaykum

It's different and plus if you live in the west because the situation is different things can become even more different.
In any case it's best to ask a sheikh instead of those who aren't.
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ardianto
02-27-2017, 07:34 AM
In Indonesia there are many hospitals that owned by Muslim organizations. In these hospitals is normal if male doctor and paramedic treat female patient, or female doctor and paramedic treat male patient. Including touching if necessary. However, this is in Indonesia where mostly of ulama and ummah are moderate Muslim. I hear the situation is different in Saudi Arabia, the ultra-conservative Muslim country.

So is becoming a doctor, nurse, or phlebotomist haram?. If you ask this question to ulama in the world, very possible you would get two contradictory answers, some say haram, some say it's okay. Depend on who you ask.
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Born_Believer
03-11-2017, 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
But what about those instances where you are required to inspect the awrah of a women???

Also, are you a med student in the west??? Because here you have to go through a period delivering babies as part of the training.

And during many examinations you are at least touching the opposite gender on an arm, or leg, or something..... so isn't that haram......thus making becoming a doctor haram since you know you will have to do haram stuff???
I'm a med student from the UK and no, we do not have to deliver babies. We must however, be present at the birth.

Secondly, you have to remember, whatever we are training to do, is to help other people. If you think that is haram that is up to you.
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