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.alhamdulillah.
02-26-2017, 07:36 PM
What about those people to whom a message of the truth has not come.... why do they suffer in this world.... also there are those to whom a message has not come and they have all the luxuries of this world.....

What is the purpose of their existance if no message comes to them, and where is the fairness that some of those people suffer in this world and some enjoy all the luxuries..???

Such as people before Islam. Many people in the west today, to whom the clear message of Islam has not come, or even in some Muslim countries where people don't even know what Islam is....


Some of these people live and die, without the message and still undergo suffering... some women burned alive, poverty, struggles, etc....

So if there is a God, why would he let these people live a life blindly without any message and purpose???


Whereas for Muslims we understand suffering and it's purpose and how to deal with good and bad in this life.
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drac16
02-26-2017, 08:37 PM
Salam alaykum

God promises that He shows signs to all people until they know the truth (the truth about Allah, Islam, etc). The Qur'an says "We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?" (surah 41:53)

You don't have to worry about people not hearing the message of Islam. Allah azza wa jal is sufficient to guide them. They may not understand Islam, but Allah will show them the signs they need to come to a basic understanding of Islam (like Tawheed, for instance). For example, let's say there's a tribe in the Amazon that worships idols and lives alone, without any contact to the outside world. Allah will show them that worshiping idols is wrong and that only Tawheed is the right belief to have (concerning the Godhead). Allah's guidance is sufficient to guide people even without having heard of Islam. They will be judged on Judgment Day based on what they did concerning that knowledge that God gave them.
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whosebob
02-26-2017, 08:40 PM
Some Muslims may say that all Good and evil comes from Allah. But if you read the Quran properly Allah sais the evil comes from ourselves. That's why we have freewill. It's our choices. That's why we get rewarded and punished for our choices. It is either a curse, if you a unbeliever and if you are a believer it's a blessing. Allah also sais in the Quran, that if you truly fear him then you should know that all good from Allah mashallah. It is in the Quran. Inshallah.

Chapter Name:An-Nisa Verse No:79
Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah; but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and We have sent thee as a messenger to (instruct) mankind. And enough is Allah for a witness.


When it comes to believers being born into a unbelieving society then this is also something that bothered me. It is unjust and Allah is not unjust. Then i read an article about the spiritual realm.

{And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam’s loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): “Am I not your Lord?” They said: “Yes! We testify,” lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: “Verily, we have been unaware of this.} (Al-A`raf 7: 172)

Before we were born, There was a place where Allah brought forth all the mankind. We all declared that Allah is one, whether it was willingly or unwillingly. This place is also somewhere were one builds affinities. Whether it was ones religion, friends, enemies basically you set your destiny here and what your life will become. That's why some are born into a believing society and others not. There is no original sin. All unbelievers still has a chance in the world to become a believer and some believers will fall the traps of Shaitan and become unbelievers.
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whosebob
02-26-2017, 08:52 PM
Read the following


Surah An’am Verse 40-41

Say: “ Think ye to yourselves,
If there come upon you The Wrath of God,
Or the Hour(that ye dread),
Would ye then call upon
Other than God?
(reply) if ye are truthful!

“Nay,- On Him would ye
Call, and if it be
His Will, He would remove
(The distress) which occasioned
Your call upon Him
And ye would forget
(the False gods) which ye
Join with Him!


Evens though unbelievers may be born in a society in history where there was no dawah, their is still hope. Allah knows everyone's situation and Allah is Just (al-Adl) mashallah.
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.alhamdulillah.
02-26-2017, 08:58 PM
Both of you are very right in what you say, and the simple fact is we might not be able to answer these questions fully, but it is not what defines our faith, we are just humans and don't know everything. Based on the proofs of Islam, we know it is true, and that is what defines our faith, if we can't answer some questions like this it is not a big deal, as we can't answer everything, and it does not mean that no God exists...


One thing I do wonder though is, what is it that make some people believe and other disbelieve.... Like we all have free will, but what is it that causes some to believe and some to disbelieve...??? Is it not our environment and experiences that influence our decisions, making me wonder are we at fault for what we do? If I believe, is it because I am actually good and believing, or is it because I just happened to be in the situations I was that caused me to believe, where someone who disbelieves is not at fault because it's their environment that influenced their decision not to believe in the truth...
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whosebob
02-26-2017, 09:01 PM
for the entire article read
https://www.islamicboard.com/general...ml#post2850334

One verse in the Quran says “We will continue to show them our signs in their selves and on the horizon until it becomes clear to them that what we are saying is true”, so the belief in The Resurrection is absolutely fundamental to the Islamic tradition, and there’s a belief that every soul will be completely renewed. But the body that’s recreated is not the same as this physical body.
This is what we call the world of spirits. One of the things of the world of spirits according to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is if you met people in the spiritual round, because we actually intermingle, if you met people in the spiritual realm you will have a natural affinity for them in this realm. So there will be people that you meet in your life that you immediately connect with. And this is believed to be a pre-worldly meeting that is replicated in this realm, and this is a recognition of that. And likewise the people most distant from you on that level, will be people that you not attracted to them. And this can also be within families and within religious traditions, in other words it could be a Muslim. For a Muslim it could be a Muslim that you are not comfortable with.

You are not supposed to be mean or cruel to them, or take them as enemies or something, but to recognize that there are natural affinities and these affinities are from a pre-worldly recognition and there’s a hadith in which The Prophet said: “Souls are like regimented ranks, those who knew each other before feel affinity in this realm, and those who did not have differences.”
So if you look at the metaphor here, you have the armed forces and they are all on the same side, but when marines are at a bar drinking and then some navy boys come in there’s all this kind of aggression that will often happen because they are from different regiments. These guys are another group even though it’s the same army. They are another group and there’s that kind of animosity that result from not being from the same regiment.
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greenhill
02-26-2017, 10:04 PM
I have read several posts here from people who live in a society far removed from islam, or even communities hostile to islam and yet they write in here to seek clarification.

I think that in itself speaks volumes..


:peace:
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.alhamdulillah.
02-26-2017, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by greenhill
I have read several posts here from people who live in a society far removed from islam, or even communities hostile to islam and yet they write in here to seek clarification.

I think that in itself speaks volumes..


:peace:
I'm confused on what you mean...
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greenhill
02-27-2017, 12:27 AM
Sorry.. what I mean is that I have noticed that often, the instances that drew them to seek out what islam (as an example) was after the 9-11 attack when the world media was painting islam a really bad name. Yet, they still came in here (IB) with open mind to discover for themselves what islam is as opposed to believing what the media has portrayed it as being. Some have even mentioned that in their research they then reverted to it (before even joining this site).

The point I was trying to make is that they somehow received the message and did something to find out. I am sure there were others, but they have not taken any action to research..

Hope it clarifies ..


:peace:
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Simple_Person
02-27-2017, 03:43 AM
Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
Both of you are very right in what you say, and the simple fact is we might not be able to answer these questions fully, but it is not what defines our faith, we are just humans and don't know everything. Based on the proofs of Islam, we know it is true, and that is what defines our faith, if we can't answer some questions like this it is not a big deal, as we can't answer everything, and it does not mean that no God exists...


One thing I do wonder though is, what is it that make some people believe and other disbelieve.... Like we all have free will, but what is it that causes some to believe and some to disbelieve...??? Is it not our environment and experiences that influence our decisions, making me wonder are we at fault for what we do? If I believe, is it because I am actually good and believing, or is it because I just happened to be in the situations I was that caused me to believe, where someone who disbelieves is not at fault because it's their environment that influenced their decision not to believe in the truth...
Brother, as a person who was born as a Muslim became an atheist and by choice embraced Islam because to be honest I never knew or understood what Islam was all about. I blame culture mostly for it as I see this same behavior with my family members when I had when I was still that "culture"-Muslim.

Anyhow, having experienced both misguidance AND guidance, so far my conclusion why some people believe and others don't has to do with 2 things.

- Honesty
- Willing to find/search the truth

By observing many people I have talked with about Islam..I saw these things AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN in their behavior.

They either are too dishonest when you give them such a solid argument that seriously no honest person can dismiss and solely based on logic, rationality, reason and scientific evidence if it already exist.

The other thing being..preoccupied or not interested. So if let's say I want to give you 1 million dollars..but you are not even willing to hear me out ..if I would forcefully want to give it to you...isn't that bothering a person...anything by force is by default not oke even if it good for me. Why? Because I have free will and I choose my own way.

Allah however with people who do not believe but are honest will drag them through hardship so they lose the whole preoccupied nonsense and put them on a path to search for the truth. For the dishonest people no matter what kind of hardships they go through they will never admit. These people you know them for example if they always blame other people for their own doing. If because of their own doing something went wrong they will point at somebody else for it and not say I am to blame. Very funny how this exactly shows same behavior as iblies himself.

There is I BELIEVE another category. That is the combination of both.

Allah knows best off course but these are my observations so far.
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Al Sultan
02-27-2017, 09:07 PM
Assalamo alikum brother.



Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
What about those people to whom a message of the truth has not come
You mean people who who have NEVER heard about Islam? Allah will test them when they die, we're not sure how, but Allah knows, and of course, Allah is always just.



Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
why do they suffer in this world.... also there are those to whom a message has not come and they have all the luxuries of this world
Suffer emotionally? if so, its because they feel like they are being deluded by the luxury of the world, they know it wont benefit them only for a short period of time, they want something to stay firm on for a long time, they know they'll not use it forever, so that makes them uncomfortable and need something spiritual in their life.



Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
What is the purpose of their existance if no message comes to them
Well brother, we Muslims should spread the message of Islam to every possible corner in the world, and we were advised to do that, if we couldn't reach some certain parts of the world, then Allah will deal with it, because he knows why we couldn't spread the message of Islam in that specific place ( for example, the famous Indian island which is dwelled by really aggressive Indians, wont let you enter it, and they may kill you (literally) )




Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
and where is the fairness that some of those people suffer in this world and some enjoy all the luxuries..???

Atheists always ask this too.

its because their leaders, presidents barely care about them, if they did care, they wouldn't stand it and they would quickly do something atleast, if I was a leader for example, I wouldn't let that happen in my country? I will find a way to stop this and find a solution so it doesn't happen.

We cant blame god here, we blame the leaders for their irresponsibility, they should be taking good care of the nation, not corrupting it, and what about others? we should be helping them and donating them too, so then Allah will ask us Why didn't you help them? so you need to be careful thinking about this brother.

And the others who enjoy the luxuries, shouldn't they be sharing their luxuries? , if I was a billionaire, I wouldn't lie and tell you 'I wouldn't have luxuries' I would, but I would share them too, because you have to make it fair, and when you do that Allah will reward you for donating your luxuries for those who don't have, and act justly towards humanity.




Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
Such as people before Islam. Many people in the west today, to whom the clear message of Islam has not come, or even in some Muslim countries where people don't even know what Islam is....
Actually that's true, I've seen people ask about what is Islam, and so on, you see, there are some people who don't CARE about religion, they don't care about faith, they didn't question their existence, if they did, they would be looking for an answer, why are we here, and how? (which basically leads to finding a religion), and we have to try our best to spread the message of Islam throughout the world, if we couldn't (to some places where we cant reach or get to) then Allah will test them in his own way.





Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
Some of these people live and die, without the message and still undergo suffering... some women burned alive, poverty, struggles, etc....

So if there is a God, why would he let these people live a life blindly without any message and purpose???
Because Allah doesn't change people's heart, if I want to change for example, I want to become a better person, then I will ask Allah for it, then he will change me inshallah, he will increase me in faith and health and strength, the Quran also talks about this ( I am not sure of the verse though i would like someone to point out the verse I'm talking about..)

Allah gave us free will too, to believe and disbelieve.

Al Quran Al Kareem (Surat Al Kahf, 18:29) "And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." Indeed, We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire whose walls will surround them. And if they call for relief, they will be relieved with water like murky oil, which scalds [their] faces. Wretched is the drink, and evil is the resting place."


So clearly as shown, Allah gave us free will to believe and disbelieve, it's just that, wither we want the truth or not, and wither we want to follow God's path or not, Allah has already sent the message.

Originally Posted by .alhamdulillah.
Whereas for Muslims we understand suffering and it's purpose and how to deal with good and bad in this life.
Because we are following the true path to God, we understand God, and we know he is always with us, and as i explained, when we are on the right path to God, God will increase us in strength and faith, to understand him more.

Inshallah this answers your question.

Wa assalamo alikum, wa rahmtullahi wa barakato.
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