Dealing with the insane

[anonymous]

As per the hadith We know that the Pen is lifted up for the insane, sleeping one and child who is yet to attain puberty

I want to know whether it can also be lifted up for those who had to deal with the insane person.

Let's say a retard was going to hit you with a bottle , knife or anything dangerous that has the potential to cause serious physical damage or even try to kill you , do we have a right to defend ourself and subdue the retard should we allow ourselves to be killed ?

And if the answer to the question is yes, will the same apply if a family member such as Parent is retarded or drunk and attempts to kill us for no reason or should we attempt to subdue them which would involve getting into a physical fight which could potentially injure them ?

We always have to obey Parents as per Allah's commandment unless they ask us to disobey Allah But ,how should we best deal with such a violent situation where they lose sanity ? As far as i know , Allah judges us by our circumstances and intentions and the intention in this case was to defend ourself..

[Scimitar]

www.islamQA.info/en

Scimi

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum

When you are at argument with your parents, you shouldn't try to escalate the situation which is what you're looking to do. This post came out of a place of anger, not danger. If the parent is indeed drunk from a result of alcoholism, and becomes extremely violent where you seriously felt your life was in danger, then go into a separate room and contact authorities or a trusting relative to remove you from the situation. Obviously we don't know the entire situation by what you have shared with us, but if a parent is angry, then most likely it didn't come out of the blue.

[azc]

keep patience and don't argue with parents

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[s.ali123]

Salam Alaikum Brother/Sister!

I can totally understand where you are coming from. Understand that Allah do not put burden on someone more than what he can carry. On the day of Judgement you will be asked according to the situation that were born into. In some part of muslim world we do not have the luxury to call some police or have some proper setup to deal with parents abuse. In the end we end up in a kind of loop and find no way to get out of the situation. In many families the father or the mother is very abusive either towards one another, or towards children. You already know the best solution would be to somehow avoid the situation, but majority of times in such families it is just not possible to avoid those. I would say just be your own judge for the situation and know that we muslims do not worship some deaf God, Allah Subhanahu wa ta'alaa is aware of each and everything that you good through. Just do the best you can for dealing with the situation, and know that you will not face some injustice in the hereafter.

Take the lesson for the future from your own experience; learn, increase your own understanding of Islam about what is right and wrong, and do not repeat the mistakes of your own parents with your own children in future. From my own experience in majority of families who are abusive towards children or spouse, this thing starts from some individual at some point, and then the children do the same with their own families. Just remember that you have to break this chain yourself!

Till the time you are independent, just try to do your best! May Allah ease your worries :)

[greenhill]

Very clear question you ask. I can see you various scenarios you put and I can almost imagine the situation (not like what would be your reality).

Of course for every circumstance there are options. But I'd like to take a step or two back. You gave some examples, and I am not going to assume they are what you go through. There must be some 'points' that lead to it. So take evasive action. From the evasive action, say, you are in the room and doors shut and he confronts, what can you say to alert him of his behaviour?

Perhaps if there was no time to take evasive action, perhaps subdue him by just hugging tight so to speak and continuously tell him that you don't want any of this.. until he relaxes..

I don't know.

May Allah help you on this.


:peace:

[AbdurRahman.]

if it is with your parents then just try and run out of the way, or subdue with least physical harm to them; use 'hit back' only if it is neccassary to defend yourself from major harm

but it is better to not hit parents back; be 'like the son of Adam' in such a case, let them hit you and you not hit back; i only said 'defend if neccassry' bit as we might find ourselves instinctlvely hitting back in such circumstance!

[aaj]

As per the hadith We know that the Pen is lifted up for the insane, sleeping one and child who is yet to attain puberty

I want to know whether it can also be lifted up for those who had to deal with the insane person.
.

No, it is lifted only for those mentioned. A sane person knows exactly what they are doing. What they do, they have to decide based what is the best option in context of the situation. If locking yourself in a room or running away is the best option then that's what you do, if locking the person in a room for the time being is the best option then that's what you do, if subduing the person so he doesn't harm himself or others is the best option then that's what you do. It all depends on the situation/circumstance and your options available plus acting on wisdom not hastiness or anger or other influencing factors.

[AbdurRahman.]

if it is with your parents then just try and run out of the way, or subdue with least physical harm to them; use 'hit back' only if it is neccassary to defend yourself from major harm

but it is better to not hit parents back; be 'like the son of Adam' in such a case, let them hit you and you not hit back; i only said 'defend if neccassry' bit as we might find ourselves instinctlvely hitting back in such circumstance!

i think my above post needs modifying a bit

nope, do not hit parents back under any circumstances, unless ofcourse your protecting from major injury and you can't help it it is instinctive! but subduing [restraining without hitting but just 'manhandling'] with minimal force should be the first option!

[Supernova]

As per the hadith We know that the Pen is lifted up for the insane, sleeping one and child who is yet to attain puberty

I want to know whether it can also be lifted up for those who had to deal with the insane person.

Let's say a retard was going to hit you with a bottle , knife or anything dangerous that has the potential to cause serious physical damage or even try to kill you , do we have a right to defend ourself and subdue the retard should we allow ourselves to be killed ?

And if the answer to the question is yes, will the same apply if a family member such as Parent is retarded or drunk and attempts to kill us for no reason or should we attempt to subdue them which would involve getting into a physical fight which could potentially injure them ?

We always have to obey Parents as per Allah's commandment unless they ask us to disobey Allah But ,how should we best deal with such a violent situation where they lose sanity ? As far as i know , Allah judges us by our circumstances and intentions and the intention in this case was to defend ourself..

Asalaamualaykum:

Firstly you are correct that certain people are not accountable for their actions in Islam (The examples you have already listed)

The answer to your question comes in one of two scenarios.

Scenario One : is where you are conversing with the person over time ( lets assume 15 minutes). The person looses it and attacks you. Islam gives you all the right to defend yourself from bodily harm irrelevant of who the attacker is.
The definition of defending yourself is as follows:
1. Your first responsibility is to vacate the area safely.
2. If you cannot vacate the area you will shield yourself from possible blows.
3. If you shielding yourself doesn't constitute to your safety - then striking the person will be regarded as part of that defence.

What is important here is to realise that if you suspected irrational behaviour during the conversation OR you were arguing to point where you have further imbalanced and already imbalanced person...then you become responsible of the event. Simply because you were the person that was sane/sober and they actually weren't so questions will be asked to why you entertained the conversation instead of vacating early.

Scenario Two: Is where the person attacks you suddenly - you basically never saw it coming. You have the islamic right to defend yourself inclusive of the 3 points that I have mentioned above.

The magic question is, "Is there a different course of action in defending oneself based on who the attacker is?" - or in other words "would it make a difference if my father attacked me?". Once again please remember the 3 forms of defence mentioned above.

The answer is simply NO - Islam does not differentiate the status of the attacker. If Islam does take into account that one cannot Defend himself/herself from say a Father - then it will give the public an impression that Islam advocates Child abuse. (In terms of your question)

Another proof that Shariah does not differentiate who the attacker is - is to remember that should a father kill his son, or a stranger kill the son - the Islamic punishment is identical for both the father being the killer or the stranger being the killer.

Once again the definition of defence here is the 3 points i have mentioned in that order. Points 1,2 & 3 in that order.

Wasalaam.