Soon the river "Euphrates" will disclose the treasure (the mountain) of gold

[Simple_Person]

As-salamu Alaikum

Each day i just go through the news and today i saw something that grabbed my attention. A year or two ago i was trying to find out about the hadith with the mountain of gold and Euphrates river. Today i saw a interesting article.

"#1) Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Soon the river "Euphrates" will disclose the treasure (the mountain) of gold, so whoever will be present at that time should not take anything of it." Al-A'raj narrated from Abii Huraira that the Prophet said the same but he said, "It (Euphrates) will uncover a mountain of gold (under it).""

Bukhari Shareef
The Book of Afflictions and the End of the World
Hadith Number: 235

Source used: https://www.facebook.com/notes/madina/the-drying-of-euphrates-river-and-the-sign-of-end-times-part-13/411928966836/

News article that i read. https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/2...ter-euphrates/

"Turkey has been withholding water from the Euphrates River for a month. The politician explained that Ankara has been doing it occasionally, then abruptly releasing it."

Logic says if you withhold something and suddenly release it again especially with water the power of the release like a wave removes what was usually firm in the ground with the steady flow before (mud/sand/old tree branches/stuff stuck in the ground). Also we know by fact that water chooses the easiest way out to flow. So if a dam withholds the flow, water will seek the possibility to force itself through another weak direction. Which again logically means, if the dam would stay or completely keep all the water from flowing it would look for another direction to flow. Which means Euphrates river will not longer exist as another "river" has come to existence so to say, which means Euphrates river will dry up...

This is off course the logic that i so far can come up with. You guys i am sure of it are more knowledgeable than me. I would appreciate it if you could share what i do not know.

Btw, Sheikh Imran Hossein thinks mountain of gold is oil, which i do not agree with him but everybody is entitled to their opinion off course.

[Scimitar]

Excellent premise for a thread, and it's got my interest.

Hopefully I will come back later to reply to this and add some thing in sha Allah.

But for now, time to make some food. in sha Allah

Scimi

EDIT:

Before I pop off, I just wanted to lay some foundation here first.

According to the Old Testament Torah, the book of Genesis describes 4 rivers of Paradise on earth, and names them thus: Pishon, Gihon, Euphrates and Tigris.

Euphrates and Tigris are still here... but what happened to Gihon and Pishon?

Stay tuned to find out in sha Allah.

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

#2) Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour would not come before the Euphrates uncovers a mountain of gold, for which people would fight. Ninety-nine out of each one hundred would die but every man amongst them would say that perhaps he would be the one who would be saved (and thus possess this gold).

Muslim Shareef
The Book of Pertaining to the Turmoil and Portents of the Last Hour
Hadith Number: 6918

Source used: https://www.facebook.com/notes/madin.../411928966836/

A few questions for your brains to also process and teach me what i haven't come up with.

Where would this mountain of gold be revealed? From historical findings we know large parts of modern day Syria has had civilizations and also modern day Iraq. As a Kurd myself having spent sometime in trying to find out historical facts where the Kurds came from..my conclusion has ended me to Mesopotamia as their source of origin itself and not nomads as some have claimed.

Mesopotamia: http://www.crystalinks.com/AkkadMap.jpg

Here another picture that depicts somehow something similar..

Mesopotamia: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...nglish.svg.png

Looking at how Kurds see the modern day "the Greater Kurdistan"...

http://www.institutkurde.org/images/...ps/ckur100.gif

Here another picture..

http://schema-root.org/region/middle.../kurdistan.gif

As you can see something very similar to historical Mesopotamia. I also saw some of the things pointing at the origin of Mesopotamia..being Prophet Nuh (as) and his boat coming to a halt on mount Judi. This is the HEART of the greater Kurdistan. Which logically speaking would explain why Mesopotamia is branded as cradle of civilization. Also many empires have risen and perished in and around Mesopotamia.

So why do i say all this? Well all those empires that have risen and perished one could MAYBE pinpoint the location where the mountain of gold would be revealed. However the question again is, who will be the ones that will fight for that treasure? As right now Euphrates starts in Kurdish area of Turkey in hands of the Turks and Kurdish held area by YPG of northern Syria also parts in the hands of Syrian army and Turkish Army. Then it slowly coming in ISIS territory. At the end being in southern Iraq by majority being Shia Arabs.

IF this would still be within the time that ISIS has control over some land, be fought among groups or among people of a group? Reading that hadith looks like among people of a certain group.

Gold by mass is heavy, so it would sink to the bottom if thrown in. Is the amount of gold by sudden waves slowly brought to a certain place or is all that gold some day just dumped by an empire? If we look at google maps..the Euphrates river becomes very narrow from "Al-Thawrah". However is that the most deep spot of the Euphrates?

Also which kind of group would kill their own brothers to achieve gold? Among Turks? Arabs? Kurds? ISIS members?

This also confirms yet another thing. The people among themselves will have no taqwa. As they be willing to kill one another for for dunya. If they might be Muslims, they both ending in hellfire as this reminds me of the hadith that if a Muslim kills another Muslims both ending up in hell fire. As the murdered killed and the dead one intended to kill the one who was alive.

Questions..questions..questions..

[Serinity]

:salam:

What is interesting is that The Prophet :saws: prohibited us from taking any of the gold. I wonder, why?

And Allah :swt: knows best.

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[Scimitar]

Which logically speaking would explain why Mesopotamia is branded as cradle of civilization.

Just to clarify for you bro Simple_Person,

During the time of Nuh Alaihis Salaam, when the ark settled, it was now up to his three sons to repopulate the earth with their wives.

Nuh Alaihis Salaam had three sons. Ham, Shem and Yafith, may Allah be well pleased with them all, ameen.

Ham settled what we know as Sudan/Egypt area today


Shem settled in Babylon.

Yafith went to the wild lands north of Judi, (through the Caucuses) and settled there.

According to historians, there is no single cradle of civilisation, but mulitple ones - they name these three specifically. While claiming in the same breath that we descended from apes :D

They say our common ancestor is an ape, and that there is no proof that we descended from a trio of genetic donors, ala Ham Shem and Yafith.

So I ask them, name me the main blood groups, and they say A, B, O and a fourth group which occurs from genetic mixing of two of the previous groups. So in the main they cite, A,B and O.

I ask them to explain, HOW? they say they do not know. I say - Ham Shem and Yafith.

Badabing Badaboom.

Anyway, no single cradle of civilisation - but multiple ones, always multiple ones. You'll see this if you study history bro.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________

With regards to the Mountain of Gold being fought over in the Euphrates.

Bro, you ever heard the term: "Fools Gold" ????

Guess what? that meaning just took on a whole other meaning :D

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

Just to clarify for you bro Simple_Person,

During the time of Nuh Alaihis Salaam, when the ark settled, it was now up to his three sons to repopulate the earth with their wives.

Nuh Alaihis Salaam had three sons. Ham, Shem and Yafith, may Allah be well pleased with them all, ameen.

Ham settled what we know as Sudan/Egypt area today


Shem settled in Babylon.

Yafith went to the wild lands north of Judi, (through the Caucuses) and settled there.

According to historians, there is no single cradle of civilisation, but mulitple ones - they name these three specifically. While claiming in the same breath that we descended from apes :D

They say our common ancestor is an ape, and that there is no proof that we descended from a trio of genetic donors, ala Ham Shem and Yafith.

So I ask them, name me the main blood groups, and they say A, B, O and a fourth group which occurs from genetic mixing of two of the previous groups. So in the main they cite, A,B and O.

I ask them to explain, HOW? they say they do not know. I say - Ham Shem and Yafith.

Badabing Badaboom.

Anyway, no single cradle of civilisation - but multiple ones, always multiple ones. You'll see this if you study history bro.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________

With regards to the Mountain of Gold being fought over in the Euphrates.

Bro, you ever heard the term: "Fools Gold" ????

Guess what? that meaning just took on a whole other meaning :D

Scimi

Nuh (as) had also more people with him. I have heard maybe not more than 80 followers. So it wasn't just his own family. But much appriciated that you gave me the information regarding the re population of his sons. I did not know that.

[Simple_Person]

:salam:

What is interesting is that The Prophet :saws: prohibited us from taking any of the gold. I wonder, why?

And Allah :swt: knows best.

Well one thing could be, as killing will take place might be one of the reasons. So we kill people to gain ownership over the gold while in Islam killing somebody is ONLY out of defense and also when somebody is sentenced to death according to certain laws. While killing people to gain ownership has nothing to do with Islam right?

[Serinity]

Well one thing could be, as killing will take place might be one of the reasons. So we kill people to gain ownership over the gold while in Islam killing somebody is ONLY out of defense and also when somebody is sentenced to death according to certain laws. While killing people to gain ownership has nothing to do with Islam right?

Killing people for transient material gain is one of the vilest things one can do.. Not Islamic at all. If I had to do that, such gold would be worthless to me. Cause I wouldn't feel at peace to kill humans for some material gain.

There is also Offensive Jihad - which is not to be confused with barbaric acts. I.e. killing innocents, or mindlessly invading countries. Afaik. Allah :swt: forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.

Allahu alam.

[Simple_Person]

Killing people for transient material gain is one of the vilest things one can do.. Not Islamic at all. If I had to do that, such gold would be worthless to me. Cause I wouldn't feel at peace to kill humans for some material gain.

There is also Offensive Jihad - which is not to be confused with barbaric acts. I.e. killing innocents, or mindlessly invading countries. Afaik. Allah :swt: forgive me if I said anything wrong. Ameen.

Allahu alam.

Are you referring offensive jihad meaning preemptive strike? Logically this is still defensive.

[Scimitar]

Nuh (as) had also more people with him. I have heard maybe not more than 80 followers. So it wasn't just his own family. But much appriciated that you gave me the information regarding the re population of his sons. I did not know that.

I hear a lot of things bro. I prefer to look at things from an unbiased perspective - I even eye ahadeeth with suspicion bro. I need more than just the records of men. I need the sciences. I need the histories. I need the ologies which come with these two studies to be understood to at least a basic level so I can know what I am looking at, and not fool myself due to an pre-supposed bias. If, after all this, what I find is consistent with hadeeth - bro, I'm convinced.

It may seem as though I am off topic here, but was China ever considered a Muslim nation?

And if not, then how is it that within their Chinese Language Characters, there is a theme of continuity which alludes to Ancient Chinese being descended from Monotheism?

Too cryptic? Let me shed some more light on this in sha Allah.

The Chinese character for BOAT, is a boat with 8 figures on it - and the history of the character is "flood myth".

So who are the 8?

Nuh and his wife, his three sons and their wives? (PBUT) looks like it.

Here, check it out:

Very interesting - I had no idea that Chinese characters have their roots in ancient biblical lore.



If that got you thinking, then watch these.




Blew my mind.

Scimi

I would spend a lot more time explaining the coding of Chinese characters and the history of humanity. The Chinese characters are coded with stories from the Prophets pbut - but for all purposes intended, this is enough for now, and I'd rather come back to the topic itself and expand more on Euphrates, Tigris, Pishon and Gihon in sha Allah.

Scimi

[aaj]

There was a report down by sky news I believe that stated that the river will dry up by 2024. And there are videos on youtube showing some people getting gold from down the stream already.

What people don't realize is that the enemies of Islam believe more in Islam then the Muslims. They are invading these Muslim nations and asking the captives to tell them "where the mahdi is hiding" and setting up camp along the river while some Muslims are casting doubt on the ahadith.

:salam:

What is interesting is that The Prophet :saws: prohibited us from taking any of the gold. I wonder, why?

And Allah :swt: knows best.

:wasalam:

Because it is a fitnah. There will be lot of killing over it, 1 out of 100 will return. The ISIS is taking land along side this river, moving up and downstream. Not a typical strategy of anyone who would want to take over a land in general.

[Simple_Person]

There was a report down by sky news I believe that stated that the river will dry up by 2024. And there are videos on youtube showing some people getting gold from down the stream already.

What people don't realize is that the enemies of Islam believe more in Islam then the Muslims. They are invading these Muslim nations and asking the captives to tell them "where the mahdi is hiding" and setting up camp along the river while some Muslims are casting doubt on the ahadith.



:wasalam:

Because it is a fitnah. There will be lot of killing over it, 1 out of 100 will return. The ISIS is taking land along side this river, moving up and downstream. Not a typical strategy of anyone who would want to take over a land in general.

If you have those videos, please do share. Also about the asking of the Mahdi..that i have also heard.

[aaj]

If you have those videos, please do share. Also about the asking of the Mahdi..that i have also heard.

I do not. But you can search on youtube and will find it. Look for phrases like "Euphrates river gold" , "Euphrates dry up" , "Euphrates sky news" etc

[noraina]

Assalamu alaykum,

This is such an interesting discussion, I'm reading through it closely.

Me and my sister often talk about similar topics and make it a point to research them - I can't say we ever find conclusive evidence all the time, but just gaining the knowledge that is available is worth it.

I do focus on the mainstream Islamic studies to further my more practical knowledge of the deen, but the area of the philosophical sides of hadiths and Islamic theology and eschatology is fascinating to study. Often the difficulty is in finding authentic information, particularly on the internet.

[Scimitar]

particularly on the internet.

yet,

here we are :D

Walakum salaam

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

Assalamu alaykum,

This is such an interesting discussion, I'm reading through it closely.

Me and my sister often talk about similar topics and make it a point to research them - I can't say we ever find conclusive evidence all the time, but just gaining the knowledge that is available is worth it.

I do focus on the mainstream Islamic studies to further my more practical knowledge of the deen, but the area of the philosophical sides of hadiths and Islamic theology and eschatology is fascinating to study. Often the difficulty is in finding authentic information, particularly on the internet.

By brainstorming about something with philosophical argument although it is not authentic in the end as for philosophical discussions you may not have the evidence to back it up...you at least keep an open mind for it. Having a open mind for the possibilities that come out of a philosophical discussion. So in the end what does this has as an benefit?.. Preparations....knowing what may come a person can prepare for it in advance. Just like dajjal that we should strengthen our imaan and and knowing about what he can do we flee from him. Or even buying the necessary tools to for if we may experience those times to survive in nature.

So all in all I have found almost no Muslims who are interested in the discussion of the end times. It is very illogical and irrational to not talk about it. The only scholar that I have found that talks about it actively as his main subject is Sheikh Imran Hosein.

Which is kind of bizarre. As if you could say scholars knowingly don't want to talk about. Funny thing is..in all the time I have been to khutbas I have heard no talk about dajjal..52 Fridays in a year......yet not one being about him ...

May Allah protect us from this fitna. Ameen.

[greenhill]

So all in all I have found almost no Muslims who are interested in the discussion of the end times. It is very illogical and irrational to not talk about it. The only scholar that I have found that talks about it actively as his main subject is Sheikh Imran Hosein.

They are, I am sure...

I did post, maybe about a year back something about this - discussion on end times. I quoted from a site. The author did mention that of one the biggest (if not the biggest topic in the Quran is about that) and he was saying that our ulammas and scholars have largely refused to look into them. I felt he had a strong point, very valid and points to an area we muslims have ignored.

However, because he pointed out lack of knowledge of our ulammas and scholars, it was not very well received by our mods. I can understand that. But he was not rude against our ulammas, merely pointing out strongly that this topic has been ignored and will remain being ignored.

Sad.


:peace:

[greenhill]

Btw, Sheikh Imran Hossein thinks mountain of gold is oil, which i do not agree with him but everybody is entitled to their opinion off course.

One thing about him though, is that he builds his arguments very well. It is well researched and he dares to stick his neck out to say. He is not foretelling but he is warning. Allah will dispense whatever He wills. He uses the Quran as a guide and he tries to decipher messages that is written in the Quran itself. I hope other scholars can learn from him and develop it.

I have noticed over the years, as new information becomes available and understanding goes deeper, Imran Hossein has also shifted his views... or more correctly put, made adjustments. But overall, what I like about what he is doing is that he is challenging people to think.

Alhamdulillah for that.



:peace:

[Simple_Person]

One thing about him though, is that he builds his arguments very well. It is well researched and he dares to stick his neck out to say. He is not foretelling but he is warning. Allah will dispense whatever He wills. He uses the Quran as a guide and he tries to decipher messages that is written in the Quran itself. I hope other scholars can learn from him and develop it.

I have noticed over the years, as new information becomes available and understanding goes deeper, Imran Hossein has also shifted his views... or more correctly put, made adjustments. But overall, what I like about what he is doing is that he is challenging people to think.

Alhamdulillah for that.



:peace:

The person that adjusts his opinion about something when new events have occurred is a honest person. I can say X today, but if thing have happened i cannot stick with X as new factors have come in to play. He indeed brings out a good argument that is why i also always watch his videos to learn one or two things. But like any scholars and he SAYS himself..do not agree with me, unless we have done our homework and are convinced ourselves. This is a very good trait i must say. As he wants us to think for our selves and not become sheep as he himself also acknowledges that knowledge doesn't come only from him. He wants to learn also from other people.

About English speaking scholars..they repeat what has been said about the end times..but nobody like sheikh Imran Hossein tries to understand what those things are trying to say OR i am just blind i haven't found any but there are more then enough.

I am btw not sure if scholars are afraid of something..(governments, people behind the curtains trying to get the Mahdi.. ). As i am sure that this forum is even being monitored about what knowledge we are spreading.

[aaj]

Euphrates River and Mountain of Gold


"The river level is very low, it's the lowest it has ever been that we can remember," says fisherman Sa'ad Naji."

"We began looking around the area, and we found clay jars and old bones, coins and even some gold jewelry"

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/euphr...-ahmed-qureshi



Iraq Suffers as the Euphrates River Dwindles

The Euphrates is drying up. Strangled by the water policies of Iraq’s neighbors, Turkey and Syria; a two-year drought; and years of misuse by Iraq and its farmers, the river is significantly smaller than it was just a few years ago. Some officials worry that it could soon be half of what it is now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/wo...euphrates.html


ISIS Attempts to dry up the Euphrates River


The Islamic State group has reduced the amount of water flowing to government-held areas in Iraq’s western Anbar province, an official said Thursday. The reduced flow through an insurgent-held dam on the Euphrates River will threaten irrigation systems and water treatment plants in nearby areas controlled by troops and tribes opposed to the extremist group, provincial council member Taha Abdul-Ghani told The Associated Press.

Abdul-Ghani said there would be no immediate effect on Shiite areas in central and southern Iraq, saying water is being diverted to those areas from the Tigris River. On Wednesday, the United Nations said it was looking into reports that the IS group had reduced the flow of water through the al-Warar dam.

“The use of water as a tool of war is to be condemned in no uncertain terms,” the spokesman for the U.N. secretary-general, Stephane Dujarric, told reporters. “These kinds of reports are disturbing, to say the least.” FULL REPORT




Euphrates to dry up by Christmas 2023

In 2007, Redsky published an article based on an Environment Protection Agency (E.P.A.) report which had predicted the Euphrates could dry up by 2025. Redsky stated that 2023 was more likely and in keeping with Global Meltdown Domino Effect Timescale

http://redskynews.com/euphrates-to-d...hristmas-2023/

[Scimitar]

I wonder who believes Yajuj and Majuj are still to be released?

Scimi

[aaj]

I wonder who believes Yajuj and Majuj are still to be released?

Scimi

do you ?

[Scimitar]

Heck no lol.

I study religion, history and science, comparatively to know truth.

Yajuj wa Majuj have been released a loooong time ago - looooooooooooong time ago, in my honest and humble opinion.

However, the status quo in the Muslim world is that they are still behind the barrier which makes me both, laugh and feel sad at the opinions of majority Muslims regarding such.

But - I was asking others, and that includes you Aaj, so - mind returning the courtesy? :)

Scimi

[aaj]

Heck no lol.

I study religion, history and science, comparatively to know truth.

Yajuj wa Majuj have been released a loooong time ago - looooooooooooong time ago, in my honest and humble opinion.

However, the status quo in the Muslim world is that they are still behind the barrier which makes me both, laugh and feel sad at the opinions of majority Muslims regarding such.

But - I was asking others, and that includes you Aaj, so - mind returning the courtesy? :)

Scimi

I don't know where you get your info from but the consensus and belief of the jammah is that they will come towards ends of time.

Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj – two disbelieving tribes from among the sons of Adam. They have wide faces and small eyes. They used to spread mischief on earth, so Allaah gave Dhoo’l-Qarnayn the power to build a barrier to detain them. They will keep on digging at it until Allaah gives them permission to come out at the end of time, after ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) has killed the Dajjaal. They will emerge in huge numbers and will drink up the lake of Tiberias (in Palestine). They will spread mischief on earth and no one will be able to resist them. ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) and the believers with him will take refuge in Mount Toor until Allaah destroys Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj by sending worms that will eat their necks. Then Allaah will send rain to wash away their bodies into the sea and cleanse the earth of their stench.

https://islamqa.info/en/171

[anatolian]

It might be oil

[Simple_Person]

Heck no lol.

I study religion, history and science, comparatively to know truth.

Yajuj wa Majuj have been released a loooong time ago - looooooooooooong time ago, in my honest and humble opinion.

However, the status quo in the Muslim world is that they are still behind the barrier which makes me both, laugh and feel sad at the opinions of majority Muslims regarding such.

But - I was asking others, and that includes you Aaj, so - mind returning the courtesy? :)

Scimi

There is a danger in being 100% convinced of matters that haven't got authentic sources. For example, i am convinced let's say 80% that dajjal would be let lose within 50 years. However i am not 100% sure it will be let lose within 50 years. So what kind of road does logic give me to follow?

- Well learn all that is about dajjal.
- Learn to be independent of the modern conveniences like getting your water from within your house, electricity food from the local grocery store. Learning at least where to get it when you don't have it anymore.
- Buy necessary gear for survival. Essential books, gather as much knowledge about survival and maybe learn some essential profession.
- Get some gold and silver coins
- Train the body to survive with less water and less food. Train the mind to be motivated.
- Etc. etc. etc.

So if no dajjal comes within my life time and i have tried my utmost best to be prepared, then i have prepared for it. If he doesn't show up, i have done my utmost best...nothing happens.

So in case of you with Yajuj wa Majuj 100% being convinced they already have been let lose, there is the danger of not counting them in the things to be aware of. The logical path would be believing they will still be let lose. That way you keep being alert.

In the past i had a discussion with a guy who was convinced there is no such a thing as dajjal, because in the Qur'an it was not told about. My argument was simple. I said bro, if you say he will come..you will be prepared. So if he doesn't even show up you at least were prepared. While if he does exist and show up, but you said there is no such a thing as dajjal..you will fall for his traps as you do not believe in him.

This simple logical approach i see many of us Muslims lack to use.

[Scimitar]

I don't entertain pascals wager bro :D and those who do, are fools who are also likely to use a "straw man" as their argument :D it's silly.

What I do is investigate until I am reasonably convinced one way or another, and then I become a critic to my research and theory and attempt to poke holes into the weaker parts to see if there is room for rebuttal. And then I leave it alone and come back to it after a few days with a fresh head on my shoulders, so to speak, and look at it all again - after which, if I haven't had another brainwave - I would usually attempt to carry on with the research, and gradually as the information, facts and proofs build up - so does the conviction. If in the process of critiquing the work, I manage to debunk my own ideas - then it's game over.

And I always am ready to entertain the idea that I could be wrong, because Allah knows best.

However, I am currently, and for years now, convinced that yajuj and majuj are out of their barrier.

Should you wish to know more, you can learn in sha Allah.

Scimi

[aaj]

I don't entertain pascals wager bro :D and those who do, are fools who are also likely to use a "straw man" as their argument :D it's silly.

What I do is investigate until I am reasonably convinced one way or another, and then I become a critic to my research and theory and attempt to poke holes into the weaker parts to see if there is room for rebuttal. And then I leave it alone and come back to it after a few days with a fresh head on my shoulders, so to speak, and look at it all again - after which, if I haven't had another brainwave - I would usually attempt to carry on with the research, and gradually as the information, facts and proofs build up - so does the conviction. If in the process of critiquing the work, I manage to debunk my own ideas - then it's game over.

And I always am ready to entertain the idea that I could be wrong, because Allah knows best.

However, I am currently, and for years now, convinced that yajuj and majuj are out of their barrier.

Should you wish to know more, you can learn in sha Allah.

Scimi

It's fine to do your own research and all but a research void of Islamic context will only mislead you. What you are convinced of is untrue. Here is a sahih hadith and there are many like this one.

Al-Nawaas ibn Sam’aan (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), wile describing the signs of the Day of judgement said: “… and Allah will send Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj, swiftly swarming from every mound. They will pass the lake of Tiberias [in Palestine] and will drink everything that is in it. Then the last of them will pass by and will say, ‘There used to be water here once.’ The Prophet of Allah, Eesaa (Jesus), and his companions, will be besieged until a bull’s head will be more precious to one of them than a hundred dinars are to any of you today. Eesaa (Jesus) and his companions will pray to Allah, and Allah will send a kind of worm (like that found in the noses of camels and sheep) on their (Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj) necks, and they will fall down dead, all at once. Then Eesaa (Jesus) and his companions will come down out of the place where they were besieged, and they will find hardly a hand span of land that is not filled with the stench (of Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj), so Eesaa (Jesus) and his companions will pray to Allah, and He will send birds like the necks of camels to carry them away and throw them wherever Allah wills.” (Reported by Muslim, 18/68).

[Umm♥Layth]

Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj – two disbelieving tribes from among the sons of Adam. They have wide faces and small eyes. They used to spread mischief on earth, so Allaah gave Dhoo’l-Qarnayn the power to build a barrier to detain them. They will keep on digging at it until Allaah gives them permission to come out at the end of time,after ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) has killed the Dajjaal. They will emerge in huge numbers and will drink up the lake of Tiberias (in Palestine). They will spread mischief on earth and no one will be able to resist them. ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) and the believers with him will take refuge in Mount Toor until Allaah destroys Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj by sending worms that will eat their necks. Then Allaah will send rain to wash away their bodies into the sea and cleanse the earth of their stench.

That is the part that doesn't add up with the theory that they have been released. Is this a translation error?

Also, is it possible that they trickle out of an opening (as per the hadith that possibly implies this) for a loooooong period of time and eventually a giant mass of them builds up?

That still doesn't add up with the order which is said it would happen.

Do share what you can @Scimitar

[aaj]

That is the part that doesn't add up with the theory that they have been released. Is this a translation error?

Also, is it possible that they trickle out of an opening (as per the hadith that possibly implies this) for a loooooong period of time and eventually a giant mass of them builds up?

That still doesn't add up with the order which is said it would happen.

how does it not add up?

There is no trickling out of any opening. The barrier would be done all at once and they all would emerge in large numbers.

[Umm♥Layth]

Let me just say that whether they are here or are going to be released all at once makes no difference in where we are as of today, so I hope that this thread continue to be a healthy discussion and we are all open to hearing perspectives so that we may be able to think about things. It doesn't have to become a debate. I like learning :) all or nothing type of thinking doesn't allow much room to learn.


That being said, I do think this hadeeth does leave room for us to entertain the possibility of Yajooj wa Majooj being released sooner or slowly.

Narrated by Zainab bint Jahsh, “That the Prophet once came to her in a state of fear and said, “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah. Woe unto the Arabs from a danger that has come near. An opening has been made in the wall of Gog and Magog like this,” making a circle with his thumb and index finger. Zainab bint Jahsh said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Shall we be destroyed even though there are pious persons among us?” He said, “Yes, when the evil person will increase.” Volume 4, Book 55, Number 565.

So if we take a hadeeth we are all familiar with (or should be), such as what you posted:

Al-Nawaas ibn Sam’aan (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), wile describing the signs of the Day of judgement said: “… and Allah will send Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj, swiftly swarming from every mound. They will pass the lake of Tiberias [in Palestine] and will drink everything that is in it. Then the last of them will pass by and will say, ‘There used to be water here once.’ The Prophet of Allah, Eesaa (Jesus), and his companions, will be besieged until a bull’s head will be more precious to one of them than a hundred dinars are to any of you today.

We find that this tells us that the release of yajooj wa majooj is a SIGNS of the end times and further describes the state of Eesa(pbuh) and his companions will be in by the time yajooj wa majooj are about to be killed.


Remember that the prophet also said ""The time of my advent and the Hour are like these two fingers." Didn't he? If we know this, why do we keep waiting for future events? End times started upon his arrival pretty much, so things have happened, are happening and will continue to happen.

Eesaa (Jesus) and his companions will pray to Allah, and Allah will send a kind of worm (like that found in the noses of camels and sheep) on their (Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj) necks, and they will fall down dead, all at once. Then Eesaa (Jesus) and his companions will come down out of the place where they were besieged, and they will find hardly a hand span of land that is not filled with the stench (of Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj), so Eesaa (Jesus) and his companions will pray to Allah, and He will send birds like the necks of camels to carry them away and throw them wherever Allah wills.” (Reported by Muslim, 18/68).

This tells us how they will be destroyed and nobody is arguing that (as far as I know). This doesn't tell us that they will be killed as soon as they come out, nor does this hadeeth tell us how long they will be destroying our resources before they are killed.

These are only a few reasons why there is a possibility they have been released or are still being released. Just because one person is 100% convinced doesn't make it a fact, but we do have to learn to think outside of our comfort zones.

We also have to think about translation because just a couple of words being different can change the meaning, arabic is a dense language and nuances matter. I don't know arabic and I wish I did so I could read everything without relying on a translation.

[Umm♥Layth]

Resources are not typically destroyed from one day to the other, although what we perceive to be a long time is not actually a long time and we have been told about this already. I suppose that's why people keep thinking that nothing will happen in their lifetime and that end times start all of a sudden.

I don't know if anyone noticed, but alot of Arab countries are in chaos and many have suffered a great amount of damage and it is all over resources. Does this not make anyone wonder? How much longer before they are all gone?

We've had plenty of warning and plenty of signs to look out for. The death of Yajooj wa Majooj are a big sign, no doubt.

[Scimitar]

Assalaam alaikum sister Umm Layth,

Your way of thinking is good mashaAllah, better than those who do not think and just parrot what others have said as if it is a gospel truth. The examination of the hadeeth regarding the end times is "work n progress" ever since the Sahabi RA became concerned at the mention of the Dajjal - another end times sign and one of the major ten - yet, the Sahabi were concerned in their own lifetime. They were also concerned about the Yajuj and Majuj, in their own lifetime. In fact, when Umar RA came to be khaliph of the Muslims, he sent an expedition out to locate the barrier because he too was concerned - what his expedition came back with was hardly convincing. Derbent.

Khaliph Watiq Billah sent an expedition out with Sallam the interpreter heading the mission due to his expertise in around 30 languages - he returned a few years later shaggy and with half his men dead claiming to have located the barrier - describing it as "a narrow defile within which a door of iron with bells hung over it" - while he was there he took his knife out of his boot and chipped away at the loose metal and bought back a drachms weight of it as proof.

"Nor were they able to dig through it" - Qur'an.

Hmmmm... to move on.

The Chinese traveller, Hiun Tsiang went through it on his way to India - both of them located this iron door in the region of mountains known as the Pamirs. Sallam journeying East coming from the West, and HUien Tsiang journeying West coming from the East.

In the modern day, there is this expedition which was a complete waste of time - watch the video first and after that I will share with you why this video is no proof of a barrier still existing.



The reason why this video is a joke is because I studied geology to a basic level and know that taking a metal detector to a mountain is stupid. All mountains have ferrous ores running through them (ferrous ore is iron) which makes using a metal detector on a mountain, very stupid indeed.

Yet people who are ignorant of such knowledge, will often spend their good money on dumb ideas just like that Egyptian brother did in this video above.

There's a lot of info which I have, in sha Allah, to share - just ask the questions and slowly the skeletal framework of this story will start to flesh out.

Scimi

[aaj]

I like learning :) all or nothing type of thinking doesn't allow much room to learn.

In our personal opinion, the all or nothing thinking doesn't help much. But if we are talking about matters of the dean, then we have to think and base our opinions in the context of what Islam has revealed and stated.

That being said, I do think this hadeeth does leave room for us to entertain the possibility of Yajooj wa Majooj being released sooner or slowly.

While that maybe so, we cannot take one hadith or verse and run with it. In order to properly understand a given matter, we have to see all collaborating ahadith, Quranic verse, and tafsir of them as well as the views of the as-salaf on it. Only then can we get the full picture of things.

For instance, I agree with you that this hadith would leave room:

Narrated by Zainab bint Jahsh, “That the Prophet once came to her in a state of fear and said, “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah. Woe unto the Arabs from a danger that has come near. An opening has been made in the wall of Gog and Magog like this,” making a circle with his thumb and index finger. Zainab bint Jahsh said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Shall we be destroyed even though there are pious persons among us?” He said, “Yes, when the evil person will increase.” Volume 4, Book 55, Number 565.

Yet

Another Hadith is narrated by Imam Ahmed in his Musnad that the Prophet (S.A.W.S) said: “Verily, Gog and Magog dig through the dam every day, till they could see the sun rays (through it), and their leader would say: ‘Go back and you will finish it tomorrow.’ On the next day, they find it as strong as before. Till when their appointed term comes and Allah desires to send them against mankind, they dig it till they could see the sun rays (through it) and their leader says: ‘Go back and you will finish it tomorrow, if Allah wills!’ On the next day, they find it as they had left the day before and they dig through it and come against mankind.

So you see that they do dig through it every single day till they are able to see sun rays n the other side, but Allah seals it back up for them to keep repeating until the appointed time.

Remember that the prophet also said ""The time of my advent and the Hour are like these two fingers." Didn't he? If we know this, why do we keep waiting for future events? End times started upon his arrival pretty much, so things have happened, are happening and will continue to happen.

Yes, they started, have happened, and are happening. The prophecies and signs are divided into major and minor signs. While it is believed that all minor signs have come true. The major signs are still to come. All these signs are about the end of times, which is different then coming of Esa a.s. He too is one of the signs. Sheikh anwar al awlwaki stated that based on the signs given, we are living in the times that al mahdi will come either in our life time or our kids' life time. That's how close we are.

This tells us how they will be destroyed and nobody is arguing that (as far as I know). This doesn't tell us that they will be killed as soon as they come out, nor does this hadeeth tell us how long they will be destroying our resources before they are killed.

What the corroborated ahadith tell us is that they will come like a tsunami, wiping everything in their path. Esa a.s. will take his followers and take refugee in the mountains while they cause chaos on earth. They will kill all living beings (animals, humans, etc) and then they will aim their arrows at the sky and fire. Those arrows will return blood soaked and then they will say they have killed gods as well. Like i said, there is a lot of information out there that one has to read to fully comprehend and get the full picture.

These are only a few reasons why there is a possibility they have been released or are still being released. Just because one person is 100% convinced doesn't make it a fact, but we do have to learn to think outside of our comfort zones.

So you see there is no possibility of them already being released. It's not a matter of one person being convinced or not, it is what is being supposed by Islamic sources and what is not. Thinking outside our comfort zone is fine, thinking outside of the context of islamic knowledge (ahadith, verses, tafsirs) is not.

We also have to think about translation because just a couple of words being different can change the meaning, arabic is a dense language and nuances matter. I don't know arabic and I wish I did so I could read everything without relying on a translation.

We do have to think about the translation, which is why someone can't do their own research and come to a conclusion on their own if they don't know the language, nor have they listened to the scholars who have studied the topic in its original text and language.

Lastly, I just like to remind everyone that we are all laymen. We should remember that as we debate,discuss and talk about islamic topics. There is us, there are students of knowledge who actually sit under a teacher to learn, there are imams, daees, and then scholars and then scholars of scholars aka senior scholars that the scholars go to. It's important to keep that in mind as some forget where we stand in the chain of knowledge and understanding of the deen.

[aaj]

This thread is about the Euphrates river.

For all posts related to gog and magog, it would be best to move here: https://www.islamicboard.com/the-hereafter/34859-yajooj-majooj.html


Also, it would be good if the mods can move all the posts starting from #21 to that thread above.

[Umm♥Layth]

This thread is about the Euphrates river.

For all posts related to gog and magog, it would be best to move here: https://www.islamicboard.com/the-hereafter/34859-yajooj-majooj.html


Also, it would be good if the mods can move all the posts starting from #21 to that thread above.

I don't think it should be moved. That thread is huge and very old. The subject of gog and magog is related to the original topic and it can easily be brought back to the subject :)

[aaj]

I don't think it should be moved. That thread is huge and very old. The subject of gog and magog is related to the original topic and it can easily be brought back to the subject :)

I disagree, call it the OCD in me :)
But i think all this belongs in the other thread, few months or years from now we will need to update this thread as we get more info on the river. so i'd like to keep'em separate.

[Umm♥Layth]

Pehraps you are right. @Scimitar , perhaps we should take the convo to that thread?

[Scimitar]

Here you go sister: https://www.islamicboard.com/-ilm-kn...l-qarnayn.html

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

@Scimitar , doing your own research there is nothing wrong with it. However you fail to understand my point.

If a Rasullah was here right now in'sha'Allah he would have clarified certain things. However there are no rasuls here to clarify it. Which means with 100% certainty you are not sure about certain things. About the true religion that can be found with 100% certainty however other matters like this are not. So it is not that I don't think and question things that I do ...but from whatever angle I ponder and question these kind of matters..I end up with the foundation conclusion of taking certainty above uncertainty.

[Scimitar]

If you're premise was solid, the scholars would not be speaking on the topic either - claiming dhul qarnayn could be x y or z from the historical records.

A plethora of scholars and doctors are all wrong to investigate the truth of the Quran according to you bro.

I told you in my post - Allahu alam. But you are ignorant of this fundamental caveat I place on myself.

Thank you for demonstrating your concern although it is unwarranted :)

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

If you're premise was solid, the scholars would not be speaking on the topic either - claiming dhul qarnayn could be x y or z from the historical records.

A plethora of scholars and doctors are all wrong to investigate the truth of the Quran according to you bro.

I told you in my post - Allahu alam. But you are ignorant of this fundamental caveat I place on myself.

Thank you for demonstrating your concern although it is unwarranted :)

Scimi

I never said nobody should talk about it. Logically speaking if we shouldn't have talked about, then Allah(swt) would not even have revealed some information about it. For example, nothing has been revealed about the soul. So there is nothing to talk about or investigate as you will also not come to know something about it.

So in this case, investigate for sure, but never go in with two feet so to say. 50/50..oke..60/40..oke even 99.9/0.1 oke..but not 100/0..Which will bring us in the same category as that guy who argued that dajjal doesn't exist because he himself didn't explicitly see "dajjal" written somewhere =_=!. He just went 100/0 o_O!..

This same errors atheist also make. They go 100/0, while agnostics keep their option always open which is a more rational and logical way to do. Muslims have gone 100/0 with Islam, but this is based on logic, rationality and reason WITH evidence. So there is no reason to not go 100% in. Every argument against Islam is being refuted every time. So again no reason to not go 100% in.

[M.I.A.]

dont covet your own soul? badly paraphrased.

although make of it what you will.

...dont go nutz over it.. i probably misremembered it anyway.


i have no idea about the thread topic? join the end of the que...

no, im kidding..

no idea.

[Simple_Person]

dont covet your own soul? badly paraphrased.

although make of it what you will.

...dont go nutz over it.. i probably misremembered it anyway.


i have no idea about the thread topic? join the end of the que...

no, im kidding..

no idea.

You know what i mean with "nothing has been revealed about the soul" =_=!.

[Scimitar]

I never...

comparing the soul (something unquantifiable) to a story based on historical facts is silly bro :D find me a better example.

Scimi

[Scimitar]

first pascals wager, when that failed due to your realization that you are grasping at straws, you attempted to compare investigating what the soul is (something even science doesn't recognize) to historical truths, based o the Qur'an, with clues in the Torah and the facts in the Histories of old...

...Bro Simple_Person, do one thing.

Think real carefully about what you write next, because you are proving yourself to be not as smart as you think.

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

first pascals wager, when that failed due to your realization that you are grasping at straws, you attempted to compare investigating what the soul is (something even science doesn't recognize) to historical truths, based o the Qur'an, with clues in the Torah and the facts in the Histories of old...

...Bro Simple_Person, do one thing.

Think real carefully about what you write next, because you are proving yourself to be not as smart as you think.

Scimi

Hahaha, you really think that i try to "win" this? What will i achieve by "winning" this discussion? Will i get a big medal for it? Or a higher place in paradise? =_=! I do not care about "winning" a discussion because a discussion is not about winning. It is about truth. Sometimes person X might hold the truth, sometimes person Y holds the truth, sometimes it is the balanced combination of both of their perspectives and sometimes a unbalances combination of both of the perspectives.

Funny thing is you hold history in a very high regard. A year or so i saw a documentary series about a historian who went to find out about Prophet Muhammad(saws). He had not even one piece of evidence that Prophet Muhammad really had existed besides people stories and writings such as hadith and Qur'an that TALK about him. That sub'han'Allah gave me even a "sub'han'Allah" moment. Because NOTHING matters about Rasullah(saws) except the Qur'an and his sunnah.

My argument is very simple is to not throw yourself completely in it without proof that gives you 0 doubt that it could be otherwise, however whatever example i use..for you to understand what i am trying to say isn't in my capabilities. It is up to Allah(swt).

So if you want to believe that yajuj and majuj with 100% conviction have already been let lose be my guest. It is that i wouldn't be able to sleep because of it =_=!.

So no more discussion is needed i guess.

Peace

[M.I.A.]

well its just concepts.. probably a few other references to it also.. but its not something that is literal and easy to grasp..or unmistakeably understood.

in most interpretations of it.. is probably some error.

so yeah.. i know what ya meant.

its just as confusing to think about the barrier as a physical entity.. although its specifically described as such..

im suprised its not been a feature point of the world at any time in history.

[Simple_Person]

well its just concepts.. probably a few other references to it also.. but its not something that is literal and easy to grasp..or unmistakeably understood.

in most interpretations of it.. is probably some error.

so yeah.. i know what ya meant.

its just as confusing to think about the barrier as a physical entity.. although its specifically described as such..

im suprised its not been a feature point of the world at any time in history.

Well there was hadith that i have read or heard that a sahabi has seen it with his own eyes and Rasullah(saws) confirmed it that indeed it was the barrier. Correct me if i am wrong and if you guys also have heard about this hadith you sure know where to find this hadith. Me and google = +1 but me and google searching for ahadith = drama.

[Scimitar]

Hahaha, you really think that i try to "win" this? What will i achieve by "winning" this discussion? Will i get a big medal for it? Or a higher place in paradise? =_=! I do not care about "winning" a discussion because a discussion is not about winning.

Wait bro, serious questioin. Do you hear voices? I'm asking because I did not make this about winning or losing, but the investigation of truth - why are you all like "Hahaha, you really think that I am trying to win this.." nonsense?

Bro, if you need help with stuff, like stopping those voices in your head - PM me, in sha Allah I can help you.

It is about truth.

Indeed.

But I also find your overly afraid nature doesn't let you investigate "truth" as is evident in your weak responses here.

Let me put you in a situation and tell you how you would react, according to what you have written in this thread so far in sha Allah.

A Non Muslim asks you "your Qur'an claims a man called Dhul Qarnayn travelled to the ends of the earth and built a wall out of iron and copper to hold back the nations of Gog and Magog. I have a few questions:

1) Dhul Qarnayn means two horned in the literal sense - does this mean you venerate satan? because satan has two horns"

you will answer "Hello non Muslim, my Qur'an says he is called two horn so we believe it - and do not attempt to know who that was in history because God didn't reveal that to us"

He responds with "Ah, that's probably because you worship the devil.

2) My next question as a non Muslim reading the Qur'an is about this wall of iron. We've managed to map the world with satellites and all sorts of tech today, but where is this wall and where are the billions of Gog Magogs?"

you will respond with "Allahu Alam - some scholars say they are underground in a hollow earth type dwelling while others..." here you lose his interest as he thinks he is talking to a moron.

He doesn't even ask you his third and fourth questions. Instead he goes away with his own bias confirmed because you could not answer him due to your inability to actually follow "truth".

So don't talk to me about truth bro. You compromise your understanding of "truth".

This is who you are Simple_Person - a simpleton who doesn't know how answer the questions of the non Muslims because you claim "we do not know" and that is that.

Bro, honestly speaking with concern leaking my fingers onto this keyboard - get a grip. You aint representing any intellectual discourse with your escapist ideas.

Scimi

[M.I.A.]

Well there was hadith that i have read or heard that a sahabi has seen it with his own eyes and Rasullah(saws) confirmed it that indeed it was the barrier. Correct me if i am wrong and if you guys also have heard about this hadith you sure know where to find this hadith. Me and google = +1 but me and google searching for ahadith = drama.

...well it cant JUST be physical can it? if it renews or is forgotten every day.


two horns could mean anything lol..

https://youtu.be/FnYeFFNdauw

...language warning discretion advised.

or was it a genuine description? as a layman

[Simple_Person]

Wait bro, serious questioin. Do you hear voices? I'm asking because I did not make this about winning or losing, but the investigation of truth - why are you all like "Hahaha, you really think that I am trying to win this.." nonsense?

Bro, if you need help with stuff, like stopping those voices in your head - PM me, in sha Allah I can help you.




Indeed.

But I also find your overly afraid nature doesn't let you investigate "truth" as is evident in your weak responses here.

Let me put you in a situation and tell you how you would react, according to what you have written in this thread so far in sha Allah.

A Non Muslim asks you "your Qur'an claims a man called Dhul Qarnayn travelled to the ends of the earth and built a wall out of iron and copper to hold back the nations of Gog and Magog. I have a few questions:

1) Dhul Qarnayn means two horned in the literal sense - does this mean you venerate satan? because satan has two horns"

you will answer "Hello non Muslim, my Qur'an says he is called two horn so we believe it - and do not attempt to know who that was in history because God didn't reveal that to us"

He responds with "Ah, that's probably because you worship the devil.

2) My next question as a non Muslim reading the Qur'an is about this wall of iron. We've managed to map the world with satellites and all sorts of tech today, but where is this wall and where are the billions of Gog Magogs?"

you will respond with "Allahu Alam - some scholars say they are underground in a hollow earth type dwelling while others..." here you lose his interest as he thinks he is talking to a moron.

He doesn't even ask you his third and fourth questions. Instead he goes away with his own bias confirmed because you could not answer him due to your inability to actually follow "truth".

So don't talk to me about truth bro. You compromise your understanding of "truth".

This is who you are Simple_Person - a simpleton who doesn't know how answer the questions of the non Muslims because you claim "we do not know" and that is that.

Bro, honestly speaking with concern leaking my fingers onto this keyboard - get a grip. You aint representing any intellectual discourse with your escapist ideas.

Scimi

I guess digging long enough the arrogance of people if they have some dwelling ..will surface eventually. That might be the reason that you haven't understood my argument whatsoever. I will leave this discussion with this, as sheytan right now is finding it very amusing to create conflict.

May Allah keep us on the straight path. Ameen.

[Simple_Person]

...well it cant JUST be physical can it? if it renews or is forgotten every day.

Well i was thinking about something like lava/ice/snow or something in that direction. As every night in case of ice it would freeze. In case of lava it would become stone again. This is speaking from nature kind of perspective you could say..or you have other things in mind?

[Scimitar]

Bro, this is why you need to study the ologies to know how to understand truths.

Well i was thinking about something like lava/ice/snow or something in that direction. As every night in case of ice it would freeze. In case of lava it would become stone again. This is speaking from nature kind of perspective you could say..or you have other things in mind?

You understood nothing about geology.

Scimi

[M.I.A.]

i dont know? could only speculate..

it not of any benifit..

all praise is due to allah swt..

you know with him is everything.

no idea of noahs ark.

...or how people could lose the best weapon on earth.. in the ark of the covenant?

and god knows how many other things..

its amazing.

seriously we are like ants on the face of the world although we would think otherwise.

under the right conditions anything is possible.

[Simple_Person]

Bro, this is why you need to study the ologies to know how to understand truths.



You understood nothing about geology.

Scimi

I have heard this barrier was vertical.. i have heard this barrier was horizontal. I have heard that it might be between the Black sea and Caspian sea. I don't know as many claim this and claim that.

In case of things that change overnight so to say, i am aware of ice for sure. or lava when we talk about psychical barriers. Some times we investigate things so deeply, while the answer is right under our noses, but if Allah(swt) doesn't want you to see it..you will not be able to see it.

[Simple_Person]

i dont know? could only speculate..

it not of any benifit..

all praise is due to allah swt..

you know with him is everything.

no idea of noahs ark.

...or how people could lose the best weapon on earth.. in the ark of the covenant?

and god knows how many other things..

its amazing.

seriously we are like ants on the face of the world although we would think otherwise.

under the right conditions anything is possible.

If Allah(swt) doesn't want something, you cannot work against it. I often think about the people of the cave. They tried to stay hidden after they woke up. However Allah(swt) says we caused them to be found. So whatever you do, it is not up to you. Do your best and the rest is up to Allah(swt) if He wills it or not. I mean even the fact of we having technology to investigate this and that..however still much cannot be found. Although i do believe that much is known, but people controlling this and that don't want the masses to know.

Which comes down to..investigate but Allah(swt) grants you whatever He wants to grant you to know and understand.

[Umm♥Layth]

Here you go sister: https://www.islamicboard.com/-ilm-kn...l-qarnayn.html

Scimi

Thank you, this is a very insightful thread. May Allah reward you for sharing your knowledge.

[Simple_Person]

Asalaam alykum, you listen to imran Hosein too right?

I might not be directly replying to your question but i would like to provide you with new info on Gog and Magog. I will give you links to articles which you can download for free at the bottom of the page and they contain more details on Gog and Magog which are not mainly known and which we wish to make known.

For example we must go through everything the children of Israel went through. Eg Musa left Harun the Khalifa (amr) in his absence and the people broke it up just like how we were left a system of khilafa and we broke it up. Harun and the believers were forced to be in a shirk society and we are also now without a leader forced to be in a shirk society. They stayed in that state for 40 nights and we have to stay in this state since the Prophet's absence for 40 days (of Dajjal). [This is just a sample of the extra info but you got to read the following articles to understand and get more knowledge In Shaa Allah]


http://aljumaareminder.com/reminder/3767/

http://aljumaareminder.com/reminder/...muharram-1438/

http://aljumaareminder.com/reminder/...th-safar-1438/

http://aljumaareminder.com/reminder/...th-safar-1438/

http://aljumaareminder.com/reminder/...th-safar-1438/

http://aljumaareminder.com/reminder/...th-safar-1438/

http://aljumaareminder.com/reminder/...bi-awwal-1438/

Some people say they are let lose already, some say they are not let lose. "The first of them will pass the lake of Tiberius (i.e., the Sea of Galilee) and drink out of it. And when the last of them passes, he will say: There was once water there. ..”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4289894/Sea-Galilee-water-level-lowest-century.html

If the last of them passes, means he has already been there out of memory right? It could be off course like me visiting your house and seeing a tree in your garden. 10 years later i visit and i see no more tree, because you have cut it down 5 years earlier. About yajuj and majuj i haven't pondered that much about yet as Imran Hossein himself often is more focused on the alliance between Muslims and rum(which i also agree with him that the chance Russian being rum, instead of the Europeans). Muslims have never really been allied with the Russians as far as i can remember. Because the corrupt Ottomans attacked them and took much from that what did not belong to the Muslims. Then WW1 started, during that era the Muslim world was rather friends with the west. WW2 started and more countries that by majority were Muslims joined western alliance. Back in the 80's with USSR and Afghanistan ..also no alliance with them. Just in the recent 1-2 years countries have seen the face of western countries and slowly are seeking alliance with the Russians. Iran was already allies with them including Syria. However you now also see many Arab countries seek alliance with Russia. This again as far as my memory goes about history i have not known any alliance with the Russians. The Russians are also not really allies with the Zionist, because they have acknowledged that Bolshevik revolution was done by Zionist Jews.

But anyway about the comment.

If the lake is drying up, then logically would one indeed argue that they already have started to drink from it. I haven't read all your links yet, but Jazakallahu khairan very informative and beneficial knowledge.

[talibilm]

:salam:

What is interesting is that The Prophet :saws: prohibited us from taking any of the gold. I wonder, why?

And Allah :swt: knows best.

:sl:wrwb

Might be this hadith gives a reason here

Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 53 :: Hadith 385

Narrated 'Amr bin 'Auf Al-Ansari:
(who was an ally of Bam 'Amr bin Lu'ai and one of those who had taken part in (the Ghazwa of) Badr): Allah's Apostle sent Abu 'Ubaida bin Al-Jarreh to Bahrain to collect the Jizya. Allah's Apostle had established peace with the people of Bahrain and appointed Al-'Ala' bin Al-Hadrami as their governor. When Abu 'Ubaida came from Bahrain with the money, the Ansar heard of Abu 'Ubaida's arrival which coincided with the time of the morning prayer with the Prophet. When Allah's Apostle led them in the morning prayer and finished, the Ansar approached him, and he looked at them and smiled on seeing them and said, "I feel that you have heard that Abu. 'Ubaida has brought something?" They said, "Yes, O Allah's Apostle' He said, "Rejoice and hope for what will please you! By Allah, I am not afraid of your poverty but I am afraid that you will lead a life of luxury as past nations did, whereupon you will compete with each other for it, as they competed for it, and it will destroy you as it destroyed them."

note

We can also see some get arrogant and go astray only because of TOO MUCH wealth finally will lead to destruction .

[aaj]

:sl:wrwb

Might be this hadith gives a reason here
.

No, this hadith does not give the reason. This hadith is more in general in terms of chasing duniya.

The mountain of gold is something specific in that it's a test and a fitna to stay away from.

[Simple_Person]

:sl:wrwb

Might be this hadith gives a reason here

Bukhari :: Book 4 :: Volume 53 :: Hadith 385

Narrated 'Amr bin 'Auf Al-Ansari:
(who was an ally of Bam 'Amr bin Lu'ai and one of those who had taken part in (the Ghazwa of) Badr): Allah's Apostle sent Abu 'Ubaida bin Al-Jarreh to Bahrain to collect the Jizya. Allah's Apostle had established peace with the people of Bahrain and appointed Al-'Ala' bin Al-Hadrami as their governor. When Abu 'Ubaida came from Bahrain with the money, the Ansar heard of Abu 'Ubaida's arrival which coincided with the time of the morning prayer with the Prophet. When Allah's Apostle led them in the morning prayer and finished, the Ansar approached him, and he looked at them and smiled on seeing them and said, "I feel that you have heard that Abu. 'Ubaida has brought something?" They said, "Yes, O Allah's Apostle' He said, "Rejoice and hope for what will please you! By Allah, I am not afraid of your poverty but I am afraid that you will lead a life of luxury as past nations did, whereupon you will compete with each other for it, as they competed for it, and it will destroy you as it destroyed them."

note

We can also see some get arrogant and go astray only because of TOO MUCH wealth finally will lead to destruction .

So the question is, who will want to fight for this treasure? In the article given by @aaj

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/euphr...-ahmed-qureshi

"If Iraq finds major gold reserves, this could be a signal for renewed civil strife between the various tribes there as well as perennially interfering outside powers"

We have seen this already happen with the Arabs, when the Ottoman empire fell. They were given some material wealth and they fought against the Ottomans. Although the Ottomans were far from fair, but the western powers were even worse as history speaks for it self.

Also not to forget i am still reminded of in the end times that the Arabs will be few. If the Arabs will be few on the side of Mahdi, some of the events might occur.

- Arabs vs other people (Iran maybe), but still more than 300 milion Arabs right now, how can they all die just with the war with Iran?
- Arabs will kill each other (as fighting for worldly gain)..with the mountain of gold. It is like a mosquito lamp and every bug going in to it..burns to death by the electricity.
- Arabs what has remained..many Arabs will follow dajjal. (Reminded of dajjal coming to a Bedoun and promising him to resurrect his parents if he would follow dajjal.).

So if many Arabs have killed each other, many have died in war with other people like the Persians. The majority of the rest following dajjal. Any other possibilities?

[Simple_Person]

:salam:

What is interesting is that The Prophet :saws: prohibited us from taking any of the gold. I wonder, why?

And Allah :swt: knows best.

Could it be that this gold is one of the means of Allah(swt) of cleansing the Ummah from munafiq and other non-Muslims who are trying to divide and destroy the Muslims? Logically speaking it does make sense. As for the real Muslim, we know it is a fitna and we do not see gold so to say..we see death. So only people who do not believe in Islam as the truth will go to it and kill each other over it if they love this world so much. Right? As this world is the paradise of the unbeliever and a prison for the believer.

[talibilm]

@Simple_Person :sl:

Bro, is there an hadith that ARABS will be less ? but

i think you mean Ansar or helpers or the Medinites will become very less

and its true, you can rarely find them now.

[Simple_Person]

@Simple_Person :sl:

Bro, is there an hadith that ARABS will be less ? but

i think you mean Ansar or helpers or the Medinites will become very less

and its true, you can rarely find them now.

I have read this hadith in the past but off course it could be that i have read it wrong and in a wrong context.

Chapter : The Remaining Ahadith Pertaining to the Dajjal.

Umm Sharik reported: I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The people would run away from the Dajjal seeking shelter in the mountains. She said: Where would be the Arabs then in that day? He said: They would be small in number.

Sahih Muslim Book 041, Hadith Number 7035.

Source used: http://hadithcollection.com/sahihmus...mber-7035.html

[Simple_Person]

-

Narrated By Zainab bint Jahsh : The Prophet got up from his sleep with a flushed red face and said, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah. Woe to the Arabs, from the Great evil that is nearly approaching them. Today a gap has been made in the wall of Gog and Magog like this." (Sufyan illustrated by this forming the number 90 or 100 with his fingers.) It was asked, "Shall we be destroyed though there are righteous people among us?" The Prophet said, "Yes, if evil increased."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 009, Book 088, Hadith Number 181.

Source used: http://www.hadithcollection.com/sahi...umber-181.html

Brother, what always has puzzled me and i have never mentioned it before to anyone, but i don't understand it. Why did Rasullah(saws) say "woe to the Arabs"?. I mean Rasullah(saws) has come to humanity starting with the Arabs. But to me it looks as if he was hinting ..that the destruction of the Arabs is coming. Or do i see it in a wrong perspective?

[aaj]

So the question is, who will want to fight for this treasure? In the article given by @aaj

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/euphr...-ahmed-qureshi

"If Iraq finds major gold reserves, this could be a signal for renewed civil strife between the various tribes there as well as perennially interfering outside powers"

So if many Arabs have killed each other, many have died in war with other people like the Persians. The majority of the rest following dajjal. Any other possibilities?

That maybe one possibility, however, I think it will be more than that. A mountain of gold is a lot, considering just a gram of it fetches you about $2000 these days. Imagine grabbing a handful of it, that alone will be enough for you to start your own business, move to another land, etc.

I think the mass killing will be done by the ISIS against all those who try to get some of it, be it locals or foreigners, governments or citizens, civilians or armed forces/intelligence agencies.

[Simple_Person]

That maybe one possibility, however, I think it will be more than that. A mountain of gold is a lot, considering just a gram of it fetches you about $2000 these days. Imagine grabbing a handful of it, that alone will be enough for you to start your own business, move to another land, etc.

I think the mass killing will be done by the ISIS against all those who try to get some of it, be it locals or foreigners, governments or citizens, civilians or armed forces/intelligence agencies.

http://www.macrotrends.net/1333/hist...100-year-chart

Maybe when times comes, it will be even worth more than what you just said.

It could indeed be and a sort of a confirmation of my theory of that mountain of gold being wiping out munafiq, extremists, non-Muslims who are attacking Islam..you name it.

Oke, so far what we already have witnessed in the recent history with the coming of ISIS. We have seen extremists join them and thus Muslims being slowly cleansed from large groups of khwarij-mentality kind of people. We also have seen many munafiq among Muslims in the Middle East but also around the rest of the world finally have their "excuse" to distance themselves from Islam. Also we have seen Muslims who were pro-some "Islamic" leader seeing doing nothing according to Islam when people are being oppressed. The only thing they think about is power and control..and greed.

When mountain of gold comes further of the cleansing might take place. We also have seen with Yazidi's being attacked and killed. I am myself a Muslim Kurd, but during Saddam era when he was killing Kurds, they sided with Saddam against the Kurds. When ISIS attacked them, on tv you heard some say..we don't trust the Arabs anymore. While MANY Kurds well over some decades ago had already lost their trust in Iraqi Arabs. So all those time this large part of the yazidi's trusted the Iraqi nationalist Arabs and oppressed the Kurds with Saddam in that time.

Anyways Allah(swt) doesn't forget anything but the punishment comes in time. Now we also see many of these people who would sell out their soul to the highest bidder have immigrated to the west. Also with the Yazidi's because they were in such a closed community nobody could learn about Islam or marry a Muslim as they would kill those who dared. So for the honest yazidi's who are truly searching for the truth, this might be even a blessing. As they no longer are being oppressed by their community because it has been split that prohibits them to learn about Islam or want to deviate from their ancestors religion.

So while many see destruction of Muslims, i see largely cleansing of Muslims. For true Muslims that were on the wrong path, it became a wake up call to go back to Allah(swt). Many people who were not Muslims have started to learn more about Islam as day in and day out Islam..Islam..Islam is on the tv.

[talibilm]

Narrated By Zainab bint Jahsh : The Prophet got up from his sleep with a flushed red face and said, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah. Woe to the Arabs, from the Great evil that is nearly approaching them. Today a gap has been made in the wall of Gog and Magog like this." (Sufyan illustrated by this forming the number 90 or 100 with his fingers.) It was asked, "Shall we be destroyed though there are righteous people among us?" The Prophet said, "Yes, if evil increased."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 009, Book 088, Hadith Number 181.

Source used: http://www.hadithcollection.com/sahi...umber-181.html

Brother, what always has puzzled me and i have never mentioned it before to anyone, but i don't understand it. Why did Rasullah(saws) say "woe to the Arabs"?. I mean Rasullah(saws) has come to humanity starting with the Arabs. But to me it looks as if he was hinting ..that the destruction of the Arabs is coming. Or do i see it in a wrong perspective?

:sl:

This is quiet difficult Allahul aalam what it meant.

But with Allah's given knowledge we can guess that INSPITE of the greatest and Seal of Prophets has been sent to the Arabs with a clear book in their own language but after few generations that Arabs fail to take this advantage but have fallen fighting for Dunya which is worst things than others IMO

if kafirs do that its not worst as a Muslim who beleives in Akirah does it. like we see being pointed in many hadiths like this which was Prophet :saws: was worried about when he prophesied the wealth & pleasures will be opened for these illiterate camel herders ( but most of them did NOT understand except the Rightly guided Caliphas and the top Sahabas the bestownment on them by Allah and that was a test too)

Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 24 :: Hadith 544

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri :
Once the Prophet sat on a pulpit and we sat around him. Then he said, "The things I am afraid of most for your sake (concerning what will befall you after me) is the pleasures and splendors of the world and its beauties which will be disclosed to you." Somebody said, "O Allah's Apostle! Can the good bring forth evil?" The Prophet remained silent for a while. It was said to that person, "What is wrong with you? You are talking to the Prophet (p.b.u.h) while he is not talking to you." Then we noticed that he was being inspired divinely. Then the Prophet wiped off his sweat and said, "Where is the questioner?" It seemed as if the Prophet liked his question. Then he said, "Good never brings forth evil. Indeed it is like what grows on the banks of a water-stream which either kill or make the animals sick, except if an animal eats its fill the Khadira (a kind of vegetable) and then faces the sun, and then defecates and urinates and grazes again. No doubt this wealth is sweet and green. Blessed is the wealth of a Muslim from which he gives to the poor, the orphans and to needy travelers. (Or the Prophet said something similar to it) No doubt, whoever takes it illegally will be like the one who eats but is never satisfied, and his wealth will be a witness against him on the Day of Resurrection."

[Scimitar]

none of you know what you are talking about :D

Scimi

[talibilm]

:sl:

Allahuaalam .

[talibilm]

none of you know what you are talking about :D

Scimi

:sl:

So what's your view about it Bro ?

jazakallah

[talibilm]

@Simple_Person

Bro you are good at research and deductions and so does this hadith speak about isis who are known to represent black flags ?

TRIALS _ SLAP TO EEMAAN


Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar:
When we were sitting with the Messenger of Allah (?), he talked about periods of trial (fitnahs), mentioning many of them.When he mentioned the one when people should stay in their houses, some asked him: Messenger of Allah, what is the trial (fitnah) of staying at home? He replied: It will be flight and plunder. Then will come a test which is pleasant. Its murkiness is due to the fact that it is produced by a man from the people of my house, who will assert that he belongs to me, whereas he does not, for my friends are only the God-fearing. Then the people will unite under a man who will be like a hip-bone on a rib. Then there will be the little black trial which will leave none of this community without giving him a slap, and when people say that it is finished, it will be extended. During it a man will be a believer in the morning and an infidel in the evening, so that the people will be in two camps: the camp of faith which will contain no hypocrisy, and the camp of hypocrisy which will contain no faith. When that happens, expect the Antichrist (Dajjal) that day or the next

[Simple_Person]

@Simple_Person

Bro you are good at research and deductions and so does this hadith speak about isis who are known to represent black flags ?

TRIALS _ SLAP TO EEMAAN


Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar:
When we were sitting with the Messenger of Allah (?), he talked about periods of trial (fitnahs), mentioning many of them.(1)When he mentioned the one when people should stay in their houses, some asked him: Messenger of Allah, what is the trial (fitnah) of staying at home? He replied: It will be flight and plunder. (2) Then will come a test which is pleasant. Its murkiness is due to the fact that it is produced by a man from the people of my house, (3) who will assert that he belongs to me, whereas he does not, for my friends are only the God-fearing. (4) Then the people will unite under a man who will be like a hip-bone on a rib. Then there will be (5) the little black trial which will leave none of this community without giving him a slap, (6) and when people say that it is finished, (7) it will be extended. (8) During it a man will be a believer in the morning and an infidel in the evening, so that the people will be in two camps: the camp of faith which will contain no hypocrisy, and the camp of hypocrisy which will contain no faith. When that happens, expect the Antichrist (Dajjal) that day or the next

Sorry, i had just woken up and understood your comment wrong. Logically speaking you COULD say that it fits the picture but Allah knows best as many hadith we could apply to the current world events while truth maybe it is for later events in the future. About the hadith (1) about flight and plunder, i am not sure how to understand this and not knowing, better not saying anything as i have no clue to it. (2) Look at many of us, we stay at home while the Ummah is being cleansed of those khawarij-mentality guys. Many of us follow what is going on via all kind of (social) media and educate ourselves through Forums and other means. We are being educated through the lies of the ones that are attacking Islam. Many of us have started to question things we do day in and day out. Many of us, just me for example, not even 4 years ago...i was full of nationalism while right now alhamdulillah i do not care about my own culture and this nationalistic feeling. All rubbish as NOTHING will help me in the grave and on the Day of Judgement. We have stayed home while we as a Ummah are being cleaned and getting stronger with Imaan and genuine people who really follow Islam. (3) I have HEARD that Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi has claimed he is from the house of Rasullah(saws), i am not sure if you can confirm that. If so, then one COULD conclude that this applies to him. As he is killing, Muslims, Christians, Jews..Atheist, ..just everybody. Earlier in the hadith, Rasullah(saws) says "murkiness" which is something that is not clear but also not unclear. So rather doubt as doubt doesn't mean yes or no. As these recent years many have doubted..are they really pro-Islam or not?

(4) This part rather confuses me. Did Rasullah(saws) meant another man will come or did he say the same man?

(5) This part one could also apply to ISIS as every house hold has had to deal with ISIS and people questioning what is going on..is this Islam?

(6) This could mean that after Raqa and Mosul victory we(Muslims) MIGHT think ISIS finally has been defeated and we are ridden of them. However just recently i read two news articles that within a safe place i think Abu ad Dhur west of Aleppo, ISIS 2 has risen...although i am not sure as news is "news" supporting the ones who want you to believe something.

(7) If Rasullah(saws) says it will be extended, till he even says "dajjal"..that is rather shocking to me. Because this logically one could say will stay even during malhama (great war) and Mahdi till these people join dajjal.

Which remind me of this..

"When `Ali killed the Khawarij, someone said: "Praise be to Allah Who has brought them down and relieved us from them." Ali replied: "Verily, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, some of them are still in the loins of men and they have not been born yet, and the last of them will fight on the side of the Antichrist.""

Source used: http://www.-----------/publication/fajr/fajr.htm

Which by LOGIC one could say that with this hadith (your hadith), the train has started to leave referring to (7) "it will be extended".

(8) Off course this, many people with culture-believe in Islam, has left Islam all together..not simply leaving the prayer, but literally leaving Islam.
I have already in other topics or maybe even also in this, pointed out that ISIS has also been a blessing that it has separated Muslims from the munafiq. As the person who is a munafiq will lie about everything even if he does not believe in a God. Among Christians these people also exist. The hypocrites pretend, but they only pretend when they see some benefit in it. While not truly believing in it.

Among Muslims but also people of other faiths, this dividends with coming of ISIS has one could say also occurred. There are people i BELIEVE that say i do not want to be associated with religion anymore. "Christian, Muslim, Jewish..doesn't matter all the same".

So the two camps in the end of Christians, Muslims, Jews and other people who just simply believe in a God being in one camp and when Mahdi would appear make things clear and the other camp the one no faith full hypocrisy being followers of dajjal. Which LOGICALLY mean that Mahdi is the cleaner of doubt and confusion but only the dishonest people which follow their desires will be fallen in the trap of dajjal.

Again, this creates much confusion about when the malhama takes place..during mahdi or before him?

HOWEVER as at the start of this comment i already has pointed this out, it could be that the train has not started with ISIS, but some group that has still to come. But so far about applying this to the current events.

IF the train has run, which logically based on my current knowledge and events, i could say i am not sure if we will reach year 2050. The amount of corruption has baffled me to be honest. The Netherlands began as the FIRST country in 2001 to ACCEPT homosexuality as marriage thing. Now 16-17 years later people worldwide have started to accepted this concept. As if this was not bad enough the transgenderism corruption has come out of NOWHERE and within even less years they have been adopted worldwide as it is "not a mental disease".

https://www.rt.com/news/380973-swedi...change-gender/

The clothes people wear has become more tighter and more revealing. The mentality of guys has become more corrupt and they have seriously became slaves of their desires and it is like a addiction one could say. They cannot help themselves anymore.

A good movie that really portrays this is "shame (2011)", do be aware it is by my standards not really approved by Islamic standards. I saw this when i was still an atheist.

Just in the last week whole fight between Turkey and the Netherlands..has made me speechless that within SERIOUSLY HOURS..it had gone from Oke..to WOOW..THAT ESCALATED QUICKLY!!..

Another sort of confirmation is the amount of people who say i am Mahdi. Has risen A LOT in the last 10 years. Which by logic one could say, iblies knows more than you me till even the sahaba's. So he KNOWS exactly when the times comes for Mahdi. By creating more confusing with people saying i am Mahdi and if the real Mahdi would be pointed at..many people treating him the same as other liars and thus not follow him. I have tried to imagine that how about that the Mahdi would come after 100 years and not within 10-30 years? Logically speaking he wants to prevent people from following him so if Mahdi would come after 100 years the most people who have witnessed these false Mahdi's would have already died. So by LOGIC one could say his purpose is to create confusion among the people who will witness the arrival of him.

Based on all of this is, we as Muslims must get our personal "...." together. Really start working on ourselves. Less tv, learn how to depend on less water, less food, no electricity, gain as much knowledge as you can as when there is no electricity and no internet..much knowledge goes away. So buy ESSENTIAL books..(pocket editions) if possible. Books how to survive in nature, buy essential tools like survival knives that you see in survival shows (do your own research about it). Buying good clothes, backpack, train the body..train the mind. So if let's say something happens..you within 30 minutes have grabbed what you have prepared for it and left your home. Have made a plan already where you going, how to reach it..with whom to go, what and who to avoid.

As in the west, i have been thinking and i THINK the FIRST people that go savage will be people in the west. The rest of the world that lives in poverty..they are blessed with survival skills. I see young children going fishing as something very normal. While many adults here in the west don't know how to make bread. They know how to make money, but don't know how to make a fire. They KNOW what car to buy, but have no idea how to navigate without navigation system. They know what is the best restaurant in town, but don't know how to make a shelter.

Some people even here, would think that i am a "doomsday"-thinker. You know those prepper-guys. I am rather a realist. I say prepare for it, if it never happened in your life, ..it never happened in your life. If it has happened in your life..then it has happened but you prepared yourself for it....( "...go make allegiance to him even if you have to crawl over snow" :) )

Allah knows best of all of this, just my 2 cents.

[talibilm]

@Simple_Person

Jazakallah Bro for your useful thoughts and we have to think much about safeguarding our eeman because iblis is within us and everywhere outside us. But Allah will guide his sincere slaves.

[Scimitar]

:sl:

So what's your view about it Bro ?

jazakallah

wa alaykum as salaam,

it's a dead subject. simply because no one has taken up on the first hint I left. Pishon, Gihon, Euphrates and Tigris. Why did I start my post of with this question?

Well, the pishon is one of the four heavenly rivers on earth which once upon an ancient time - ran through Arabia, making it green... and Arabia, in those ancient ties was the land of what?

Gold.

And y'all talking about this hadeeth.

We have ahadeeth about Mahdi AS, some of which mention how he will fill the shirts of those who ask for money with gold and silver until their shirts over flow.

What will Mahdi know that you don't?

I'm still dropping giant hint bombs here in the hope that a critical thinker will follow on from what I have left and reveal the mind blow I have decided not to.

It's time I saw some of you actually open some books that are not Qu'ran or hadeeth so you can flesh out the info within the Qur'an and hadeeth by finding applicable contexts and routes of possibility within those other books and then measure the probability via the comparative of assessment to see if you can see something others cannot.

That aside, if you are asking me what I think of the hadeeth in relation to Muslims?

Gold is gold. I don't believe it's oil. Despite what Shaikh Imran Hosein says - on this I disagree with him. 99 out of 100 will die trying to get it, and each who goes to get that gold - will think he is the 1 who will not die getting it - this shows me that those who will attempt to mine that gold - will already be aware of the ahadeeth regarding the mountain of gold - will these gold hunters be Muslim? think about it.

Sadly, if they are - then they neglect the hadeeth where prophet pbuh advised "The last hour will not arrive until the Euphrates uncovers a mountain of gold. Whoever finds it should take nothing from it" - again, advising the Muslim "whoever finds it should take nothing of it".

Think about it - for me it's a closed case. Seems Muslims will be fighting for that gold.

But only one will get it.

Who will be that one? Mahdi AS? or someone else?

For me it's a closed case as the ahadeeth allude to two things only:

1) gold will be discovered in the river which will cause many to lose their lives
2) only one will get that gold

nothing more to see... unless you wish to look into the four ancient rivers and their relevance to this hadeeth. Which, I do not think anyone does, so. I'm out.

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

wa alaykum as salaam,

it's a dead subject. simply because no one has taken up on the first hint I left. Pishon, Gihon, Euphrates and Tigris. Why did I start my post of with this question?

Well, the pishon is one of the four heavenly rivers on earth which once upon an ancient time - ran through Arabia, making it green... and Arabia, in those ancient ties was the land of what?

Gold.

And y'all talking about this hadeeth.

We have ahadeeth about Mahdi AS, some of which mention how he will fill the shirts of those who ask for money with gold and silver until their shirts over flow.

What will Mahdi know that you don't?

I'm still dropping giant hint bombs here in the hope that a critical thinker will follow on from what I have left and reveal the mind blow I have decided not to.

It's time I saw some of you actually open some books that are not Qu'ran or hadeeth so you can flesh out the info within the Qur'an and hadeeth by finding applicable contexts and routes of possibility within those other books and then measure the probability via the comparative of assessment to see if you can see something others cannot.

That aside, if you are asking me what I think of the hadeeth in relation to Muslims?

Gold is gold. I don't believe it's oil. Despite what Shaikh Imran Hosein says - on this I disagree with him. 99 out of 100 will die trying to get it, and each who goes to get that gold - will think he is the 1 who will not die getting it - this shows me that those who will attempt to mine that gold - will already be aware of the ahadeeth regarding the mountain of gold - will these gold hunters be Muslim? think about it.

Sadly, if they are - then they neglect the hadeeth where prophet pbuh advised "The last hour will not arrive until the Euphrates uncovers a mountain of gold. Whoever finds it should take nothing from it" - again, advising the Muslim "whoever finds it should take nothing of it".

Think about it - for me it's a closed case. Seems Muslims will be fighting for that gold.

But only one will get it.

Who will be that one? Mahdi AS? or someone else?

For me it's a closed case as the ahadeeth allude to two things only:

1) gold will be discovered in the river which will cause many to lose their lives
2) only one will get that gold

nothing more to see... unless you wish to look into the four ancient rivers and their relevance to this hadeeth. Which, I do not think anyone does, so. I'm out.

Scimi

By my standards, you have a very strange way of trying to wake up the curiosity of other people. But who am i to say this. Many of us, including i had never heard of those two other rivers. For me to wake up my curiosity is not give me a name of something and expecting me to have my curiosity woken up. But that is me. A small comment which somehow points out to the subject is in my case what wakes up my curiosity. In this case, this small comment of yours..how general it even is. I am not sure if this is with other brothers and sisters the same, but as a constructive feedback to you, i would say in a topic regarding something, give a bit more information as what connects different subjects according to your own research. That way people will have something more than a name they have never heard of and start digging in from there. This way i think you will benefit from it and we will benefit from it, as when we also start doing research we will point at the wrong conclusions you made OR build on top of your conclusions.

Peace

[Scimitar]

I've already dropped giant hint bombs, as mentioned above. It's time you did some "homework" instead of expecting me to do it for you. This subject is sensitive and you entertain fitan when you attempt to discuss these matters online with "google" open. I advise ordering some books on methodology and then going from there.

Good day to you and salaam

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

I've already dropped giant hint bombs, as mentioned above. It's time you did some "homework" instead of expecting me to do it for you. This subject is sensitive and you entertain fitan when you attempt to discuss these matters online with "google" open. I advise ordering some books on methodology and then going from there.

Good day to you and salaam

Scimi

For you is a giant bomb, but for me as i have no knowledge about it..so is unknown to me. But thank you as that has woken up my curiosity. My digging will begin in'sha'Allah.

[Scimitar]

For you is a giant bomb, but for me as i have no knowledge about it..so is unknown to me. But thank you as that has woken up my curiosity. My digging will begin in'sha'Allah.

Ok

akhi tell me where you want me to start in sha Allah.

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

Ok

akhi tell me where you want me to start in sha Allah.

Scimi

No you didn't understand my comment. I said your comment that you branded the giant hint bomb.. was the right comment that woken up my curiosity. So now in'sha'Allah i will do my own digging and look what i stumble to.

[talibilm]

wa alaykum as salaam,

it's a dead subject. simply because no one has taken up on the first hint I left. Pishon, Gihon, Euphrates and Tigris. Why did I start my post of with this question?

Well, the pishon is one of the four heavenly rivers on earth which once upon an ancient time - ran through Arabia, making it green... and Arabia, in those ancient ties was the land of what?

Gold.

Saudi was green :o

How many millenniums ago ?, Bro,

and gold , in the sense ? i never heard of them both

Could you please substantiate on these with some ref ,links. bro.

Jazakallah khair.

[Simple_Person]

Saudi was green :o

How many millenniums ago ?, Bro,

and gold , in the sense ? i never heard of them both

Could you please substantiate on these with some ref ,links. bro.

Jazakallah khair.

Ooh I thought you have heard of those Ahadith about end times. That everything (Arab deserts) will go back to how it was as in the time of Adam (as). That a believer will only worry that he doesn't get lost. That plant will grow that haven't grown since the time of Adam (as). Even science has proven that those deserts were once vast amount of woods..all green a d stuff. If you go though deserts in saudio Arabia you will even find remainigs of shell fish. Why did you think there was so much oil underneath those deserts?...about the gold part that I'm gonna start doing the research.

[aaj]

Saudi was green :o

How many millenniums ago ?, Bro,

and gold , in the sense ? i never heard of them both

Could you please substantiate on these with some ref ,links. bro.

Jazakallah khair.

The mountain of gold in Euphrates river is different than the gold mahdi will give out. The former will mostly get the non-Muslims killed and the latter is burred beneath the kaba.

Arabia used to be green and will turn to that soon as well.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150...-lush-paradise

Prophet Mohammad صلى الله عليه وسلم said: " The Hour (of Resurrection) will not occur..... until the land of the Arabs returns to being pastures and rivers." (Sahih Muslim).


This prophecy has started to materialize:



A Muslim man named Zaheer has recently reported on his blog ( http://zaheersblog.blogspot.com ) that he went to Saudi Arabia to perform Umrah. He went to Madina first and then Makka. On June 27, 2010, on his way to Makka, may be about twenty five miles from it, he started noticing greenery. The whole desert looked like a faint green meadow. This greenery was not the result of some intentional gardening or landscaping. This is what used to be a bare desert and it is miles and miles of land.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-Majeed al-Zandaani said:


Professor Alfred Kroner, one of the most famous geologists in the world, attended a geological conference in the College of Earth Sciences in the King ‘Abd al-‘Azeez University. I said to him: Do you have any proof that Arabia was once gardens and rivers? He said: Yes, this is well known to us and it is a scientific fact. Geologists know this because if you dig in any area you will find signs that tell you that this land used to be meadows and rivers. There is a lot of evidence.


I said to him: Do you have any evidence that Arabia will once again become meadows and rivers? He said: This is something real and proven. We geologists know it and measure it and calculate it. We can say approximately when it will happen, and it is not far off, it is quite close. I said: Why? He said: Because we have studied the history of the earth in the past, and we have found that it passes through many stages, one of which is the ice ages. What does ice age mean? It means that a certain amount of sea water turns into ice and collects at the North Pole, then it begins to shift towards the south, and when it shifts towards the south it covers whatever is beneath it, and the climate on earth changes. Among the climatic changes is the change that takes place in Arabia, where the weather becomes cold and Arabia becomes one of the lands which has the most rain and rivers on earth.

More at https://islamqa.info/en/110197


We are headed towards a mini ice age : http://www.iflscience.com/environmen...-ice-age-2030/

And it has started already : http://www.climatedepot.com/2016/10/...e-has-started/

[Simple_Person]

-

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150...-lush-paradise

"His team's findings suggest that the monsoon pushes further into Arabia every 23,000 years, allowing plants and animals to flourish."

So AT LEAST within the past 23.000 years one could say Adam(as) could have lived because it was during his time lush and green. OR if he lived before that than at least 46.000 years. Or even older. Allah knows best.

Do help me analyze this...

We are headed towards a mini ice age : http://www.iflscience.com/environmen...-ice-age-2030/

"Three will fight one another for your treasure, each one of them the son of a caliph, but none of them will gain it. Then the black banners will come from the east, and they will kill you in an unprecedented manner." Then he mentioned something that I do not remember, then he said: "When you see them, then pledge your allegiance to them even if you have to crawl over the snow, for that is the caliph of Allah, Mahdi."

Sunan Ibn Majah 4084
Book 36, Hadith 159
Vol. 5, Book 36, Hadith 4084

Source used: https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah/36/159

"Ibn Qazuwaih said that Kathir bin Murra said: " The Aya (sign) of the event of Ramadan will be a fire in the sky like the necks of camels or like iron columns. If you see it, prepare for your family food supplies for a year." Or perhaps he (Kathir bin Murra) said: "The Aya of the event is a column of fire originating from the sky." (Ibn Al-Shajari's Al-Amali Al-Shajaria)"

Source used: http://www.discoveringislam.org/signs_before_mahdi.htm

During winter..NOTHING grows. Especially COLD WINTERS. Every kind of crops has certain temperatures that it can cope out with. Some vegetation can withstand frost..but an ice age??..o_O!!..

A winter especially snow and ice is sort of watering every year. In the Middle East we see that during summer places are so hot and everything is dead. But during spring everything becomes green because of the snow irrigating the land that melts during spring.

So based on this little knowledge and Allah knows best one could say the coming 13 years gonna get hellish for Muslims and non-Muslims a like. Which fits in my conclusion based on what is going on right now worldwide the Mahdi has to arrive within 10-30 years. Mostly a very huge factor in this is, the amount of people sheytan convinces them to be the Mahdi. The last years the amount of people have become A LOT that say this. iblies knows more than us as he has witnessed every prophet from Adam(as) to Muhammad(saws). So to create confusion among the Muslims that are alive just convince people to say they are the Mahdi. At the end when the real one would come people thinking this is just another "lunatic".

[talibilm]

Ooh I thought you have heard of those Ahadith about end times. That everything (Arab deserts) will go back to how it was as in the time of Adam (as). That a believer will only worry that he doesn't get lost. That plant will grow that haven't grown since the time of Adam (as). Even science has proven that those deserts were once vast amount of woods..all green a d stuff. If you go though deserts in saudi Arabia you will even find remainigs of shell fish. Why did you think there was so much oil underneath those deserts?...about the gold part that I'm gonna start doing the research.

:sl:

I had heard this '' There will be attempts to make the deserts green''

but your post which said it will be as it was before made me google and found this

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-p...-times.288369/


Narrated by Abu Hurairah, Prophet Mohammad صلى الله عليه وسلم said: "The Hour (of Resurrection/Judgment day) will not occur, until the land of the Arabs returns to being pastures and rivers." (Sahih Muslim).

A variation of this Hadith also appears in Musnad of Imam Ahmad:

"The Hour (of Resurrection) will not occur until the Arabian Peninsula returns, as it used to be, paradises and rivers." (Musnad Ahmad)

Jazakallah khair,I never took note of it

so its not just 10's of milleniums but we are talking at least how many millenniums ?

[Simple_Person]

:sl:

I had heard this '' There will be attempts to make the deserts green''

but your post which said it will be as it was before made me google and found this

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-p...-times.288369/


Narrated by Abu Hurairah, Prophet Mohammad صلى الله عليه وسلم said: "The Hour (of Resurrection/Judgment day) will not occur, until the land of the Arabs returns to being pastures and rivers." (Sahih Muslim).

A variation of this Hadith also appears in Musnad of Imam Ahmad:

"The Hour (of Resurrection) will not occur until the Arabian Peninsula returns, as it used to be, paradises and rivers." (Musnad Ahmad)

Jazakallah khair,I never took note of it

so its not just 10's of milleniums but we are talking at least how many millenniums ?

How many millenniums, that Allah knows best. You guys need to provide some knowledge as you know more than me. We know in the time of Eesa(as) that Maryam(ra) had given birth underneath a palm tree. Palm trees to my knowledge grow only in desert or hot like areas. So in the time of Eesa (as), it was also desert in the Middle East (2000 years back). If we further go back, we come to Musa(as) and hear the story of 40 years wondering in the desert, so also with that we hear the story of Moses(as) and pharaoh. Some say it was around 1300 BC because of Ramses 2 being that pharaoh. So this goes back 3300 years back and still desert in the Middle East.


Story of Ibrahim(as)..Hagar(ra) and Ishmael (as) ..desert..

Story of Salih(as)..with the story of the camel. Why would the people ask to see as a sign a camel if the habitat they were living was not desert? A person in 1500 AD in Europe would not ask a camel as a sign you know..rather a horse based on logic.

Prophet Hud(as) ..Surah Al-Ahqaf -

Translations of the name
The Dunes, The Sandhills, The Sand-Dunes

Again..desert

We go further back to Prophet Nuh(as) and the flood. We know that his boat had settled on mount Judi. A flood is..water. Water can irrigate land, although that doesn't mean land will stay irrigated as clouds don't come and keep providing water to the land. So with this we are still not wiser.

However we do know that trees and vegetation in general need good drainage. When the roots of trees are in water and stay in water it will drown and the tree will die. So with a flood one can say that IF there was a forest back before the flood ..the flood may have caused to be removed much of the vegetation.

From there on, my memory has abandoned me maybe you guys can fill it in with Edris (as) for example as also till Prophet Nuh(as) we know he had the height i BELIEVE like Adam(as)..about 60 meters...so giants.

I took again a look at the prophets and if i am not mistaken between Prophet Edris and Prophet Nuh were no messengers for a long time because people listened to righteous people at that time but were not prophets and thus stayed on the right path. However those Prophets lived very long 500-1000 years if am not wrong. We also know that Prophets came generation after generation (for example Ibrahim (AS) and Ishmael (AS) father and son) or even were alive during same generation (for example Ibrahim (as) and Lut (as) as family members). So it COULD be that still within 23.000 years but Allah knows best about that.

[Scimitar]

Saudi was green :o

How many millenniums ago ?, Bro,

and gold , in the sense ? i never heard of them both

Could you please substantiate on these with some ref ,links. bro.

Jazakallah khair.

Sure bro, you will find these references in the Old Testament Torah. Now, before we all start giving it the "it's corrupted" talk. Please understand what was corrupted in the Old Testament Torah - for the sake of brevity, I'll tell you - the laws were corrupted. Not much else. But the laws are a BIG deal. Now that we have that out of the way, let's see if that which is not corrupted, is helpful in any way in this study in sha Allah.

Arabia was a land of gold merchants in Ancient times and it was also green once - and the greenery became lost over time after the flood, as waters recessed under ground and left Arabia a desert.

We start with the gold references (there are many more but I don't have much time so I have only listed a few)

Also all the kings of Arabia and the governors of the territories brought gold and silver to Solomon. - 2 Chronicles 9:14

South Arabian merchants utilized the Incense Route to transport not only frankincense and myrrh but also spices, gold, ivory, pearls, precious stones, and textiles—all of which arrived at the local ports from Africa, India, and the Far East. The geographer Strabo compared the immense traffic along the desert routes to that of an army. The Incense Route ran along the western edge of Arabia’s central desert about 100 miles inland from the Red Sea coast; Pliny the Elder stated that the journey consisted of sixty-five stages divided by halts for the camels. Both the Nabateans and the South Arabians grew tremendously wealthy through the transport of goods destined for lands beyond the Arabian Peninsula. SOURCE

OPHIR - Ophir is a district first mentioned in the Old Testament Torah as a Joktanite / South Arabian tribe (Genesis 29 et seq.) Ophir later became a port destination for the Prophet and King Solomon's (pbuh) fleet. From the records, King Solomon received 420 talents of gold.

The most probable view is that Ophir was situated in Arabia. This is indicated, as mentioned above, by the Biblical reference in Gen. x. 29. An old tradition recorded by Eupolemus (c. 150 B.C.) also assigns Ophir to this region, identifying it with the island of Uphre in the Red Sea. Both the east and west coasts have been considered as the site. Glaser assigns Ophir to the east coast, in view of the three years' voyage, which would be much too long if it were on the west coast; and he also compares it with the cunciform name "Apir" applied to the northeast and the northwest coast of the Persian Gulf. The Arabic geographer Hamadani says that gold-mines were situated in the northeastern part of Arabia. Glaser locates Havilah here (Gen. ii. 11) and identifies Ophir with the coast district belonging to it. SOURCE - Jewish Encyclopaedia

Moving onto ancient times pre-dating the Torah narratives: In this study you will find articles and information relating to the idea that Arabia was a lush green nation in Ancient times, below I have listed only one reference but I find that this reference is a key to finding way more information about Arabia being green once upon a time -

The Hejaz includes both the Mahd adh-Dhahab (Arabic: مَـهـد الـذّهـب‎‎, "Cradle of (the) Gold") (23°30′12.96″N 40°51′34.92″E) and a water source, now dried out, that used to flow 600 miles (970 km) north east to the Persian Gulf via the Wadi Al-Rummah and Wadi Al-Batin system. Archaeological research led by of Boston University and the University of Qassim indicates that the river system was active in 8000 BCE and 2500–3000 BCE. Source: Wikipedia - multiple references cited in original article.

Following on from this train of thought, I ask you to look at the hadeeth of the Mahdi AS. You will find many references within the wiki article itself but don't stop there - use that as a starting point and find other routes of investigation which comparatively paint the rest in - if Allah wills.

Abu Sa'id al-Khudari, a close associate of the Prophet says:
I heard the Prophet declare from the pulpit: "The Mahdi from among my descendants, from my family, will rise at the End of Time, while the heavens will pour rain and the earth will bring forth green grass for him. He will fill the earth with justice and equity as it is filled with tyranny and injustice” - Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, p. 74; Ithbat al-hudat, Vol. 7, p. 9.

Contrast this also with the hadeeth previously mentioned where the Mahdi will fill the shirt of the poor man with gold and silver till it overflows.

Most importantly, keep searching, use the Qur'an as your foundation - and the Ahadeeth as your first point of reference - barring these the whole world is yours to investigate in sha Allah. I could just post my findings here, but it won't be the same as you investigating this yourself and discovering the awe and wonder of Allah manifesting HIS will on earth in ways that will humble you wonderfully and be needy of HIS mercy in discovering more truth, God willing.

Scimi

[Scimitar]

The mountain of gold in Euphrates river is different than the gold mahdi will give out.

No one knows that, so stop playing guessing games with an air of mock authority bro lol.

Arabia used to be green and will turn to that soon as well.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150...-lush-paradise

Prophet Mohammad صلى الله عليه وسلم said: " The Hour (of Resurrection) will not occur..... until the land of the Arabs returns to being pastures and rivers." (Sahih Muslim).

This prophecy has started to materialize:

A Muslim man named Zaheer has recently reported on his blog ( http://zaheersblog.blogspot.com ) that he went to Saudi Arabia to perform Umrah. He went to Madina first and then Makka. On June 27, 2010, on his way to Makka, may be about twenty five miles from it, he started noticing greenery. The whole desert looked like a faint green meadow. This greenery was not the result of some intentional gardening or landscaping. This is what used to be a bare desert and it is miles and miles of land.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-Majeed al-Zandaani said:


Professor Alfred Kroner, one of the most famous geologists in the world, attended a geological conference in the College of Earth Sciences in the King ‘Abd al-‘Azeez University. I said to him: Do you have any proof that Arabia was once gardens and rivers? He said: Yes, this is well known to us and it is a scientific fact. Geologists know this because if you dig in any area you will find signs that tell you that this land used to be meadows and rivers. There is a lot of evidence.


I said to him: Do you have any evidence that Arabia will once again become meadows and rivers? He said: This is something real and proven. We geologists know it and measure it and calculate it. We can say approximately when it will happen, and it is not far off, it is quite close. I said: Why? He said: Because we have studied the history of the earth in the past, and we have found that it passes through many stages, one of which is the ice ages. What does ice age mean? It means that a certain amount of sea water turns into ice and collects at the North Pole, then it begins to shift towards the south, and when it shifts towards the south it covers whatever is beneath it, and the climate on earth changes. Among the climatic changes is the change that takes place in Arabia, where the weather becomes cold and Arabia becomes one of the lands which has the most rain and rivers on earth.

Your source - Ummah.com - please cite your sources so members can check, thank you.

To add to and flesh out in greater detail what you have shared, I share here with you, a word document which I sent to Ahmad Gassama some months ago.

In Genesis (Old Testament Torah chapter), it talks about the four great rivers from Eden : The Phison, the Gihon, the Euphrates and the Tigris.

The Phison and the Gihon were stemming from the gulf but they are no longer known after Noah’s flood.
Sea levels were lower before the flood but after it, they raised higher and the ozone layer was compacted which resulted in many different effects. Paleoclimatologosts have studied the effects and reported their theories.

Some of which was that the two rivers of The Phison and the Gihon were crushed by natural dams caused by the flood. There is a natural fault line which passes along the Arabian dessert, defining the borders of the dessert and the eastern coast. The fault line must be located in the red line,

You can clearly see where the Pishon river runs into Arabia in ancient times - this info is cited here: http://www.israel-a-history-of.com/biblical-garden-of-eden.html the blue line that snakes west then meanders south flowing into the Hejaz areas of old. The waters ran dry and went into the earth where they settled in an underground aquifer.

If Arabia becomes green again, the fruits trees that would grow from the land would be from ancient seeds deeply buried under the sands, the same sands which will be washed away into mud.

These seeds would grow into trees that give ancient fruits, th size of which were much larger than the varieties we have today, Allahu alam. The seeds would have been preserved since pre-Noah’s (pbuh) times right up to 2,500BCE and Allah knows best!

The question remains : Where is the well of Zamzam getting its water from ?

Could it be possible that the trapped aquifers from the Phison are feeding it ?

Now if there was a river then it makes sense that settlements would have been built around them, ancient cities and towns all buried under the sands… These cities and towns would harbour ancient wealth, from a time when gold was abundant in Arabia. Arabia was a land of gold mines in the ancient times of the pre-flood era.

The area where the river will flow, will be lush with vegetation and trees and so the temperature of those areas will greatly reduce to facilitate a very comfortable living environment. Trees provide shade and they perspire a cooler air around them. Making those areas where the river flows through into a contiguous oasis.

If the dam breaks – the river will flow and Arabia will become the worlds PRIME REAL ESTATE !

And it will be all for the Muslims !

It is adream that will be one day a reality in-sha’Allah

Entire towns, villages and cities will be built and settled and there are not enough Arabs to fill them, and so the Muslims will come from everywhere because 75% of Arabia is a desert ! And this in sha Allah will reduce greatly.

THE MAHDI

AbuSaeed al-Khudri said I heard that the Messenger of Allah صلىالله عليه وسلمsay:" A leader will emerge from your leaders. He will distributemore than can ever be counted. A man will come and ask for goods, andhe (the leader) will tell him to take what he wants. That man willspread out his shirt and fill it with goods. The Messenger of Allah صلىالله عليه وسلمspreadout a thick shirt he was wearing, showing how that man will be atthat time, and then gathered up the corners of that garment and said,this is how that man will collect his goods and carry them away."(Ibn Kathir's book Nihayafi Fitan & Al-Malahim)

عنأبي سعيد الخدري رضي الله عنه قال :قالرسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم
يخرجفي آخر أمتي المهدي يسيقه الله الغيثوتخرج الأرض نباتها ويعطي المال صحاحاًوتكثر الماشية وتعظم الأمة يعيش سبعاًأو ثمانياً يعني حججاً))رواهالحاكم في المستدرك وقال صحيح، وقالالالباني حديث صحيح
AbuSaeed al-Khudri said: the Messenger of Allah صلىالله عليه وسلمsaid:"At the end of Umma, the Mahdi will appear. Allah will give him water as a relief. The Land will sprouts plants. He will give away money. The cattle will increase in number. The Umma (nation) will become magnificent. He will live for 7 or 8, meaning Hajj seasons (years)." (Al-Hakim'sAl-Mustadrak, Al-Albany classified it as Sahih)

Kepp going - keep investigating, do not limit your horizons.

Scimi

[aaj]

No one knows that, so stop playing guessing games with an air of mock authority bro lol.

Yes, we do know that. You just need to learn more about Islam and you will see it. What you are doing is studying bibles and over thinking with your own deductions, which are wrong.

We have plenty of authentic islamic sources, lectures and consensus of the jammah.
Euphrates river will reveal a mountain worth of gold and 99 out of 100 will die over it.
The gold mahdi will get is the gold that is part of the treasure buried under the kaba by the Jurhum tribe. They feared a neighboring tribe from attacking and so they gathered all their gold and buried it there as well as covered up zamzam well.

Your source - Ummah.com - please cite your sources so members can check, thank you.


Scimi

No, it was not ummah.com. It was the web. And I don't care for the bible and torah you keep quoting, we do not take from corrupted books. Per islam, we know they were green ones and they will return to that. Per science community, they were green once and they will return. End of story.

[Simple_Person]

we do not take from corrupted books. Per islam, we know they were green ones and they will return to that. Per science community, they were green once and they will return. End of story.

This is rather childish approach i must say. Nobody is saying you MUST take it, but a WISE person takes all the knowledge then step by step removes what is contradictory and gives possible conclusions.

So lets say that our understanding ONLY based on Islamic sources with this we come to certain outcomes, but i believe A LOT ..i mean A LOT of ahadith haven't been even translated so with that amount of untranslated knowledge might be other crucial information. So the conclusion is based on very very very few translated ahadith and the Qur'an.

If you ALSO just for the sake of investigating, research also their sources(Bible) you can say it is POSSIBLE based on ONLY Islamic source mountain of gold is located at location X, while based on also other information it is located at location Y. Then you can work out the rest of the possibilities of which kind of people might go and kill each other and based on what. It is just simple conclusions but doesn't mean it is 100% truth. Everything that based on logic, rationality and reason i try to figure out in ahadith for example i may accept 99.9% but never 100%, because i can always be wrong. Till now even about hadith competing with each other who has the highest building..i do not accept with 100% that it is being talked about our current times. Everything says yes it is, but always keep a margin of error, this margin of error is being wise. Women naked but dressed, this 10-15 years back was already like that, however now a days clothes have become even MORE tight than they were ever before. So also with this i say i accept with 99.9% accuracy, but possibility that it may be in the future that we are not even aware of..is very plausible.

Why is this my approach? There are people that believe already 100% of all those things and sell all their stuff prepare do take off as if tomorrow Mahdi is coming or so. But years might go by and still nothing. So i always say..do prepare..but always keep in mind that you might be wrong and keep one leg in your home and one leg outside.

btw, what is up with you guys disrespecting ummah.com? (Just out of curiosity, not that i am active there).

[aaj]

This is rather childish approach i must say. Nobody is saying you MUST take it, but a WISE person takes all the knowledge then step by step removes what is contradictory and gives possible conclusions.

No, rather it's the right way to process in doing one's research. If you are going to look at all the news articles to analyze them for a research, you will not entertain the idea of looking at tabloids as valid news source. I already saw the information he shared when i was looking online. They were mentioned Eden and stuff, so are they trying to say the Garden of Eden was on Earth now? I dismissed such information as inaccurate and moved on. And the fact of the matter is, we don't really need to know all that which cannot be proved true. All we need to know is what can be proven which the hadith and the geologicaly scientists confirm.

btw, what is up with you guys disrespecting ummah.com? (Just out of curiosity, not that i am active there).

I don't go there so i don't know about them. Ask him.

[Simple_Person]

No, rather it's the right way to process in doing one's research. If you are going to look at all the news articles to analyze them for a research, you will not entertain the idea of looking at tabloids as valid news source. I already saw the information he shared when i was looking online. They were mentioned Eden and stuff, so are they trying to say the Garden of Eden was on Earth now? I dismissed such information as inaccurate and moved on. And the fact of the matter is, we don't really need to know all that which cannot be proved true. All we need to know is what can be proven which the hadith and the geologicaly scientists confirm.



I don't go there so i don't know about them. Ask him.

When i saw his comment, about garden of Eden, i remembered that i also had saw a documentary or read something about that. What i remembered about it was that they really had branded it as REAL garden of Eden not just some beautiful and blessed place on earth. But i haven't heard about the two other rivers although i am kind of curious if there are no other Islamic sources that mention those rivers. So my i am only interested in those rivers only...and while i am at it..looking up the history of tigris and euphrates.

[Scimitar]

Yes, we do know that. You just need to learn more about Islam and you will see it. What you are doing is studying bibles and over thinking with your own deductions, which are wrong.

Blanket statement - no debunk. You seem to be at a loss for actually debating here, or adding to the discussion. Interesting.

We have plenty of authentic islamic sources, lectures and consensus of the jammah.
Euphrates river will reveal a mountain worth of gold and 99 out of 100 will die over it.

None of which, actually give you any clarity - which is why members posting in this thread are still investigating the "eupthrates mountain of gold" lol.

The gold mahdi will get is the gold that is part of the treasure buried under the kaba by the Jurhum tribe. They feared a neighboring tribe from attacking and so they gathered all their gold and buried it there as well as covered up zamzam well.

Bro, what the heck are you talking about history for when we are studying the end times in a different context? lol

It was reported from Sa'eed bin Sa'man that he heard Abu Hurrairah RA telling Abu Qatadah that Allah's Messenger pbuh said:
"Allegiance will be sworn to a man between the Rukn and the Maqam (the Mahdi), and no one will violate the sanctity of this house except it's own people. When they violate it, do not ask about the destruction of the Arabs. Then the Abyssinian's will come and destroy it in such a way that it will never be rebuilt, and they are the ones who will extract its treasures." bukhari

The scholarly understanding is that this hadeeth does not contradict the hadeeth of Aisha RA where she said the Prophet pbuh said "an army will attack the kaaba and when they reach an area of plain ground, the earth will swallow up the first and the last of them" bukhari

Ibn Hajar wrote in his book Fath al Bari, in the chapter about the destruction of the kaaba and "This indicates there will be attacks against the kaaba, one time Allah will destroy them before they reach it and another time Allah will permit them to reach it. The apparent meaning is that the attack of those who will destroy it will happen after the first attack". Fath al Bari, Kitabul Hajj, Bab hadam al Kaaba.

Directly contradicting your stance. You just need to learn more about Islam and you will see it. :)

It was the web. And I don't care for the bible and torah you keep quoting, we do not take from corrupted books. Per islam, we know they were green ones and they will return to that. Per science community, they were green once and they will return. End of story.

Sources from "The web". Investigates biblical lore. Doesn't care to investigate the historical worth of the Bible(s)... interesting :D

Scimi

[aaj]

Blanket statement - no debunk. You seem to be at a loss for actually debating here, or adding to the discussion. Interesting.


Bro, what the heck are you talking about history for when we are studying the end times in a different context? lol

It was reported from Sa'eed bin Sa'man that he heard Abu Hurrairah RA telling Abu Qatadah that Allah's Messenger pbuh said:
"Allegiance will be sworn to a man between the Rukn and the Maqam (the Mahdi), and no one will violate the sanctity of this house except it's own people. When they violate it, do not ask about the destruction of the Arabs. Then the Abyssinian's will come and destroy it in such a way that it will never be rebuilt, and they are the ones who will extract its treasures." bukhari

The scholarly understanding is that this hadeeth does not contradict the hadeeth of Aisha RA where she said the Prophet pbuh said "an army will attack the kaaba and when they reach an area of plain ground, the earth will swallow up the first and the last of them" bukhari

Ibn Hajar wrote in his book Fath al Bari, in the chapter about the destruction of the kaaba and "This indicates there will be attacks against the kaaba, one time Allah will destroy them before they reach it and another time Allah will permit them to reach it. The apparent meaning is that the attack of those who will destroy it will happen after the first attack". Fath al Bari, Kitabul Hajj, Bab hadam al Kaaba.

Scimi

Bro,

You have some of the information but you are confused about putting it together. You are trying to put the pieces of the puzzle where they do not belong.

[Scimitar]

Brother you should retract that last bit and apply it to yourself. I've shown the error of your assumption by posting ahadeeth with commentaries and coupled with historical insights which in turn are also correlated with the old testament - what have you bought here son? The web??? :D Your web made you think the treasure under the kaaba was the mahdi's lol. I directly debunked that with the book I referenced written by Ibn Hajar, you're the one who is

trying to put the pieces of the puzzle where they do not belong.

The irony does not take a back seat with me :)

Seriously bro, take a break. Read a book.

Scimi

[aaj]

I'm not interested in a winning contest. You are free to be believe what you want. I would encourage you to continue searching on this and not rest thinking you have the answer.

[Scimitar]

I'm not interested in a winning contest.

It's very sad that you see the pursuit of investigation as "winning a contest". You should back out of these discourses, clearly they do not suit you and you are not qualified intellectually to contribute anything of any worth.

Very sad to see the state of Muslims degenerate to this. May Allah preserve us ameen.

You are free to be believe what you want. I would encourage you to continue searching on this and not rest thinking you have the answer.

Brother you are in no position to encourage anyone, going by the red herrings you've left on this thread :) But thanks for the thought anyway. So I return you the favour and actually give you some advice - learn methodology, don't sink. Enough Muslims "sink" into degenerative discourse because they are trumped by those who actually know how to "investigate" - meanwhile bro, there's you, someone who is out of his depth and relegated to admitting his research is "internet". No method, nothing.

Honestly, with due care I advise you - learn methodology, then study - because you've not proven anything except your ignorance, unfortunately.

God bless you.

Scimi

[talibilm]

Sure bro, you will find these references in the Old Testament Torah. Now, before we all start giving it the "it's corrupted" talk. Please understand what was corrupted in the Old Testament Torah - for the sake of brevity, I'll tell you - the laws were corrupted. Not much else. But the laws are a BIG deal. Now that we have that out of the way, let's see if that which is not corrupted, is helpful in any way in this study in sha Allah.

Arabia was a land of gold merchants in Ancient times and it was also green once - and the greenery became lost over time after the flood, as waters recessed under ground and left Arabia a desert.

We start with the gold references (there are many more but I don't have much time so I have only listed a few)

Also all the kings of Arabia and the governors of the territories brought gold and silver to Solomon. - 2 Chronicles 9:14

South Arabian merchants utilized the Incense Route to transport not only frankincense and myrrh but also spices, gold, ivory, pearls, precious stones, and textiles—all of which arrived at the local ports from Africa, India, and the Far East. The geographer Strabo compared the immense traffic along the desert routes to that of an army. The Incense Route ran along the western edge of Arabia’s central desert about 100 miles inland from the Red Sea coast; Pliny the Elder stated that the journey consisted of sixty-five stages divided by halts for the camels. Both the Nabateans and the South Arabians grew tremendously wealthy through the transport of goods destined for lands beyond the Arabian Peninsula. SOURCE

OPHIR - Ophir is a district first mentioned in the Old Testament Torah as a Joktanite / South Arabian tribe (Genesis 29 et seq.) Ophir later became a port destination for the Prophet and King Solomon's (pbuh) fleet. From the records, King Solomon received 420 talents of gold.

The most probable view is that Ophir was situated in Arabia. This is indicated, as mentioned above, by the Biblical reference in Gen. x. 29. An old tradition recorded by Eupolemus (c. 150 B.C.) also assigns Ophir to this region, identifying it with the island of Uphre in the Red Sea. Both the east and west coasts have been considered as the site. Glaser assigns Ophir to the east coast, in view of the three years' voyage, which would be much too long if it were on the west coast; and he also compares it with the cunciform name "Apir" applied to the northeast and the northwest coast of the Persian Gulf. The Arabic geographer Hamadani says that gold-mines were situated in the northeastern part of Arabia. Glaser locates Havilah here (Gen. ii. 11) and identifies Ophir with the coast district belonging to it. SOURCE - Jewish Encyclopaedia

Moving onto ancient times pre-dating the Torah narratives: In this study you will find articles and information relating to the idea that Arabia was a lush green nation in Ancient times, below I have listed only one reference but I find that this reference is a key to finding way more information about Arabia being green once upon a time -

The Hejaz includes both the Mahd adh-Dhahab (Arabic: مَـهـد الـذّهـب‎‎, "Cradle of (the) Gold") (23°30′12.96″N 40°51′34.92″E) and a water source, now dried out, that used to flow 600 miles (970 km) north east to the Persian Gulf via the Wadi Al-Rummah and Wadi Al-Batin system. Archaeological research led by of Boston University and the University of Qassim indicates that the river system was active in 8000 BCE and 2500–3000 BCE. Source: Wikipedia - multiple references cited in original article.

Following on from this train of thought, I ask you to look at the hadeeth of the Mahdi AS. You will find many references within the wiki article itself but don't stop there - use that as a starting point and find other routes of investigation which comparatively paint the rest in - if Allah wills.

Abu Sa'id al-Khudari, a close associate of the Prophet says:
I heard the Prophet declare from the pulpit: "The Mahdi from among my descendants, from my family, will rise at the End of Time, while the heavens will pour rain and the earth will bring forth green grass for him. He will fill the earth with justice and equity as it is filled with tyranny and injustice” - Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, p. 74; Ithbat al-hudat, Vol. 7, p. 9.

Contrast this also with the hadeeth previously mentioned where the Mahdi will fill the shirt of the poor man with gold and silver till it overflows.

Most importantly, keep searching, use the Qur'an as your foundation - and the Ahadeeth as your first point of reference - barring these the whole world is yours to investigate in sha Allah. I could just post my findings here, but it won't be the same as you investigating this yourself and discovering the awe and wonder of Allah manifesting HIS will on earth in ways that will humble you wonderfully and be needy of HIS mercy in discovering more truth, God willing.

Scimi

:sl:Bro,

I read this post yesterday but i did not vote a '' Like " for it because it includes the above bolded red point which goes against my own research & opinion on the OT.

Yes I could agree on the worldly and geographical part of the OT which does not effect their Religion or our Religion itself and OT points to the existence of Mecca as Bacca as i have pointed in this thread
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...nsight-by-a-JE

But in other fields IMHO it does not stand to get the same credibility which it got from the times of our Prophet :saws: which i have reiterated in this thread including its restructuring in the 8th century which is well planned by the Shrewdest people on the Earth and dumping the Chapter of song of Songs from the main Torah to the lesser important Ketuvim with a FAKE background LOVERS STORY only because it has the name of Prophet Muhammad EXPLICITLY , so as to disprove the Noble Quran . The fanatics (zionists) of them are even refusing Exodus of Moses for nothing else EXCEPT to disprove the Noble Quran which is the FIRST UTMOST TARGET so they never let a stone unturned to disprove Islam and its Book and its Noble Prophet.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...-Allah-and-why

[aaj]

. You should back out of these discourses, clearly they do not suit you and you are not qualified intellectually to contribute anything of any worth.

this coming from someone who thinks yajuj and majuj have already been released?

maybe you're intellectually not even there where i'm standing with all this.

Which is why i said, you are welcome to believe what you want but i encourage you to keep researching. You are not there yet in your research and conclusion where I stand. So while you go with your hubris in your conclusions and libel against me, i 'll leave you to your eureka.

[Bobbyflay23]

Ok so I'm open to the bleife of them being outside in the real world allready but I think there's one problem with that idea wouldn't that mean that isa alyhi wasalm would be in the mountains with all the Muslims hiding from them because most belive that if they where out side in the real world that it would be the Americans and English people but they have been out here for centuries so isas people would have died inside of the mountain while isas still alive and also there would be no Muslims out here they would all be inside the mountain im very open to the idea tho that's just the only problem I see with it also al Mahdi hasn't came yet and that's the last sign before the major signs start and yujuj and majuj are a major sign and major signs don't start until all the minor signs are fufilled because the point of a major signs is to say that the end is v v close minor signs mean that major signs will be there soon

[Serinity]

Ooh I thought you have heard of those Ahadith about end times. That everything (Arab deserts) will go back to how it was as in the time of Adam (as). That a believer will only worry that he doesn't get lost. That plant will grow that haven't grown since the time of Adam (as). Even science has proven that those deserts were once vast amount of woods..all green a d stuff. If you go though deserts in saudio Arabia you will even find remainigs of shell fish. Why did you think there was so much oil underneath those deserts?...about the gold part that I'm gonna start doing the research.

:salam:

maybe the trees in Arabia were VERY big, considering that The Prophet Adam :as: was very tall. And maybe the whole area of SAND was full of greenery and water.

Allahu alam.

[Simple_Person]

this coming from someone who thinks yajuj and majuj have already been released?

maybe you're intellectually not even there where i'm standing with all this.

Which is why i said, you are welcome to believe what you want but i encourage you to keep researching. You are not there yet in your research and conclusion where I stand. So while you go with your hubris in your conclusions and libel against me, i 'll leave you to your eureka.

You accuse him of not searching further and having settled at his own conclusion as being the truth (which I agree with you), yet you do the same.by having a firm believe that yajuj and majuj have not being released. There are hints one could say they have been released so staying firm on "no they have not been released" or staying firm on "they have been released" are both wrong approaches if you ask me. As in both cases there is no FIRM conclusions either one is the absolute truth..so don't treat it as absolute conclusion.

@Scimitar for you bro..I am not sure that this is how you in general have discussion with people I only want to say that reading your comments look very arrogantly. I could be off course wrong and only person here who sees your comments it like that.

[Simple_Person]

:salam:

maybe the trees in Arabia were VERY big, considering that The Prophet Adam :as: was very tall. And maybe the whole area of SAND was full of greenery and water.

Allahu alam.

Well remembering parts of the story of Prophet Nuh (as). When he was building the boat he had help from a man who was bigger than him.so it could be that not all the trees where big. On the other hand they could be very well if we look at those gigantic dinosaurs (plant eaters). They were big but were planteaters like a giraffe eating from tall trees. So big large trees could also have existed. Another thing that just came to my mind is a Hadith that talks about the fruit of the end times that from 1 fruit multiple people can eat from. To have such large fruit a tree has to have a firm large base and big root growth for suckling up water and other minerals from the ground.

As we also know from hadith is that vegetation like trees etc. will grow that have not grown since the time of Adam ( as ). This is logical because a seed can stay dorment in its husk till the husk rots because of moisture and the seed gets access to water. So as we know that the deserts in Arabia were forests once, it is very plausible that these seeds are hidden under the sand. Also I saw once a documentary talking about the Amazon rainforest. ThE narrator said that the Sahara desert is blown all over the Atlantic Ocean to the Amazon rainforest and furtlizes the ground as it contains a lot of minerals.

[Scimitar]

:sl:Bro,

I read this post yesterday but i did not vote a '' Like " for it because it includes the above bolded red point which goes against my own research & opinion on the OT.

Yes I could agree on the worldly and geographical part of the OT which does not effect their Religion or our Religion itself and OT points to the existence of Mecca as Bacca as i have pointed in this thread
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...nsight-by-a-JE

Wa'alaykum as salaam.

That's fine. I presented some research which you do not wish to weigh and you gave your reasons. You have your own mind and your own way of learning which is good mashaAllah.

I agree with the Baca reference as well, nothing new there - it;s all regurgitated research which most Muslims will have no issues accepting.

That's neither here nor there though.

Theologically, the Torah is sound - in practice of Law, it is corrupted and in some other matters it is contradictory due to the "lying pen of the scribes" (jeremiah 8 reference) which if you consider on context alone, let's you know exactly the forms of corruption within. Many parts of the Old Testament are historically sound and biblical archaeology is a science gaining momentum from both religious and irreligious circles across the world.

But in other fields IMHO it does not stand to get the same credibility which it got from our Prophet :saws:

Nothing abrogates what the Prophet Muhammad pbuh said. Not sure where you are going with this or what you are attempting to paint here - but like you, lol, I am also a Muslim, my prime inference is the Qur'an, my secondary inference is the Sunnah/Ahadeeth and these two I have confirmed with the Bible(s), comparative history and investigative methodologies - all have served to inspire an ever growing reliance on the Qur'an - do you feel the same too?

times which i have reiterated in this thread including its restructuring which is well planned by the Shrewdest people on the Earth and dumping the Chapter of song of Songs from the main Torah to the lesser important Ketuvim with a FAKE background LOVERS STORY just to disprove the Noble Quran . The fanatics (zionists) of them are even refusing Exodus of Moses for nothing else EXCEPT to disprove the Noble Quran which is the FIRST UTMOST TARGET so they never let a stone untrurned to disprove Islam and its Book and its Noble Prophet.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...-Allah-and-why

It's funny you mention songs of solomon 5:16 - on Religious Education forum (REforum) the Jewish mods banned me because I cornered the Jews with their own theological caveat.

No one has done that before to my knowledge - Allah alam.

Scimi

[Scimitar]

@Scimitar for you bro..I am not sure that this is how you in general have discussion with people I only want to say that reading your comments look very arrogantly. I could be off course wrong and only person here who sees your comments it like that.

Forgiven.

Confidence is quite often mistaken for arrogance. It's hard to tell on the web.

Scimi

[Serinity]

Well remembering parts of the story of Prophet Nuh (as). When he was building the boat he had help from a man who was bigger than him.so it could be that not all the trees where big. On the other hand they could be very well if we look at those gigantic dinosaurs (plant eaters). They were big but were planteaters like a giraffe eating from tall trees. So big large trees could also have existed. Another thing that just came to my mind is a Hadith that talks about the fruit of the end times that from 1 fruit multiple people can eat from. To have such large fruit a tree has to have a firm large base and big root growth for suckling up water and other minerals from the ground.

As we also know from hadith is that vegetation like trees etc. will grow that have not grown since the time of Adam ( as ). This is logical because a seed can stay dorment in its husk till the husk rots because of moisture and the seed gets access to water. So as we know that the deserts in Arabia were forests once, it is very plausible that these seeds are hidden under the sand. Also I saw once a documentary talking about the Amazon rainforest. ThE narrator said that the Sahara desert is blown all over the Atlantic Ocean to the Amazon rainforest and furtlizes the ground as it contains a lot of minerals.

So you are saying that Sahara desert provides mineralse for Amazon Rainforest all over Atlantic Ocean?

Either way, this is amazing!! Jannah will be even more fascinating.

Allahu

[Simple_Person]

So you are saying that Sahara desert provides mineralse for Amazon Rainforest all over Atlantic Ocean?

Either way, this is amazing!! Jannah will be even more fascinating.

Allahu

As trees die and leaves die..what it contains in them (minerals) also becomes to the soil. That is why at places that one has planted years of vegetation like vegetables and trees, the soil becomes depleted of the minerals new vegetation it needs to grow healthier and stronger. Just as we human beings for example need calcium and many other minerals as well as vitamins. So the soil that you might plant vegetation is added extra nutrition like compost, or animal manure or you could even use human excrements as this is even MORE nutritious to the plants because our diet varies more than of animals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7lVGhTPQAY

[Serinity]

As trees die and leaves die..what it contains in them (minerals) also becomes to the soil. That is why at places that one has planted years of vegetation like vegetables and trees, the soil becomes depleted of the minerals new vegetation it needs to grow healthier and stronger. Just as we human beings for example need calcium and many other minerals as well as vitamins. So the soil that you might plant vegetation is added extra nutrition like compost, or animal manure or you could even use human excrements as this is even MORE nutritious to the plants because our diet varies more than of animals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7lVGhTPQAY

SubhanAllah,

From the video, Sahara sand contains phosphorous which is important for plant growth. The sand gets transported to The tropic area. About 27 million tons goes to the Rain Forest Amazon.
From the video, we know that Tropical areas has very limited amount of phosphorous, so the sahara sand helps maintain the tropical areas. Without the Sahara sand, one could say, because of the limited amount of phosphorous, it might have died out.


SubhanAllah. I see soo much intelligence in this creation. Why in this? Usually, we have learnt in school that things ADAPT to their environment, but here, it is quite different. It is not an adaptation. Why has the Tropical Area not adapted itself? Sahara sand helps it.

Allahu alam.

[Simple_Person]

SubhanAllah,

From the video, Sahara sand contains phosphorous which is important for plant growth. The sand gets transported to The tropic area. About 27 million tons goes to the Rain Forest Amazon.
From the video, we know that Tropical areas has very limited amount of phosphorous, so the sahara sand helps maintain the tropical areas. Without the Sahara sand, one could say, because of the limited amount of phosphorous, it might have died out.


SubhanAllah. I see soo much intelligence in this creation. Why in this? Usually, we have learnt in school that things ADAPT to their environment, but here, it is quite different. It is not an adaptation. Why has the Tropical Area not adapted itself? Sahara sand helps it.

Allahu alam.

School now a days teaches you things that can help to benefit economy, not things that make you want to gain more knowledge and see more ayaat of Allah(swt). I am myself not a big fan of the education of modern time, as it has become a mass factory of creating robots instead of spreading knowledge. I love knowledge but hate schools especially universities and such.

[Serinity]

School now a days teaches you things that can help to benefit economy, not things that make you want to gain more knowledge and see more ayaat of Allah(swt). I am myself not a big fan of the education of modern time, as it has become a mass factory of creating robots instead of spreading knowledge. I love knowledge but hate schools especially universities and such.

you know. Islam is rooted in THINKING. How many ayaat are there, that encourage thinking? Such as (Paraphrased) "Why don't you think?"

For example, in biology class, or science class, thinking is not taking things at "face value". Or because "my dad said so" or "cuz my parents".

Here is a video of "Does Allah permit Critical Thinking?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmIywVyWglE

Prophet Ibrahim :as: was a Thinker. He did not accept something unless there was evidence.

Allahu alam.

[Simple_Person]

you know. Islam is rooted in THINKING. How many ayaat are there, that encourage thinking? Such as (Paraphrased) "Why don't you think?"

For example, in biology class, or science class, thinking is not taking things at "face value". Or because "my dad said so" or "cuz my parents".

Here is a video of "Does Allah permit Critical Thinking?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmIywVyWglE

Prophet Ibrahim :as: was a Thinker. He did not accept something unless there was evidence.

Allahu alam.

I think you missed my point. What i meant to say is that knowledge in general is not by general given to us through school. School just makes people that can withstand stress, not really making good human beings. As an example, in school now a days evolution theory is pushed in your brain as..this is it. But no real intention of questioning evolution theory and the errors in it..or just in general critically analyze it. You are being thought something, but not necessarily being the truth.

[Scimitar]

None of ya'll know what you talk about. lol

Serenity - bro - these peeps are willfully ignorant on these matters, preferring the web as their MO over the methodology. You're wasting your time with them akhi.

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

Forgiven.

Confidence is quite often mistaken for arrogance. It's hard to tell on the web.

Scimi

Do not try to use "lol" and such. Just make it more like things do not meet logical and rational argument or things are contradictory. As you better than me know "lol" means Laughing Out Loud ..if you even in real life would have done or do such a thing you belittle somebody. We are but human beings and we are often more wrong than right but let's educate each other instead of discarding somebody as if he has just been born (ie as ignorant as one can be)

[Scimitar]

Do not try to use "lol" and such. Just make it more like things do not meet logical and rational argument or things are contradictory. As you better than me know "lol" means Laughing Out Loud ..if you even in real life would have done or do such a thing you belittle somebody. We are but human beings and we are often more wrong than right but let's educate each other instead of discarding somebody as if he has just been born (ie as ignorant as one can be)

:)

You make me LOL a lot. Especially when you write one thing and in your very next post - you contradict it, just like you did here a few moments ago: https://www.islamicboard.com/general...ml#post2954102

If you don't like me LOLing, then try not to make me laugh with your inconsistent posts and often contradictory opinions. Ok?

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

:)

You make me LOL a lot. Especially when you write one thing and in your very next post - you contradict it, just like you did here a few moments ago: https://www.islamicboard.com/general...ml#post2954102

If you don't like me LOLing, then try not to make me laugh with your inconsistent posts and often contradictory opinions. Ok?

Scimi

You are a very unique case I must say. I have never given so much advice as to you yet you do not self reflect it seems. There is nothing more than I can say or do with you. I leave it like this.

Peace

[Scimitar]

You are a very unique case I must say. I have never given so much advice as to you yet you do not self reflect it seems. There is nothing more than I can say or do with you. I leave it like this.

Peace

Bro, is this you giving up because you realise you cannot influence me in any way shape or form?

I'm here to tell you can influence me, but first I have to consider your influence, worthy.

Step your game up, and maybe you find me quite relenting towards you. But until then, No.

My advice stands, learn Investigative Methodology, trust me - this is what Muslims of the golden age period were experts in. yet today, we are at a loss.

God bless,

Scimi

[Simple_Person]

Bro, is this you giving up because you realise you cannot influence me in any way shape or form?

I'm here to tell you can influence me, but first I have to consider your influence, worthy.

Step your game up, and maybe you find me quite relenting towards you. But until then, No.

My advice stands, learn Investigative Methodology, trust me - this is what Muslims of the golden age period were experts in. yet today, we are at a loss.

God bless,

Scimi

There is nothing wrong with the method you are stating and I agree with you but the way how a message is communicated you forget that. So again I think about your methodology I agree with it, but what I am saying what isn't really about methodology you don't even take your time to ponder what I am saying.

To give you an example. Rasullah (saws) brought the truth to people but he never conveyed it in a harsh and rude way. I mean even if you speak the truth and if you are 100% right just by reading your comment my heart want to stop reading it to be honest...because how the message is being conveyed. My mind wants to read it but my heart rather wants me to stop reading it. While other brothers and sisters give also good information but than heart accepts it and i am also eager to read and benefit from it. Why? Because the message contains valuable information just like your comments but in a respectable way.

You get me?

[Scimitar]

There is nothing wrong with the method you are stating and I agree with you but the way how a message is communicated you forget that. So again I think about your methodology I agree with it, but what I am saying what isn't really about methodology you don't even take your time to ponder what I am saying.

This method is what made Muslims lead the world in the golden age of Islam. The Europeans adopted the method and fomented the Renaissance period, which saw Europe rise to greatness.

These investigative methods are scientific, mathematical, logical comparative, etc etc etc and more - weighing up the advantages one can fortify his or herself with when they learn these is invaluable.

Will you attempt to learn these?

To give you an example. Rasul-Allah (saws) brought the truth to people but he never conveyed it in a harsh and rude way. I mean even if you speak the truth and if you are 100% right just by reading your comment my heart want to stop reading it to be honest...because how the message is being conveyed. My mind wants to read it but my heart rather wants me to stop reading it. While other brothers and sisters give also good information but than heart accepts it and i am also eager to read and benefit from it. Why? Because the message contains valuable information just like your comments but in a respectable way.

You get me?

No.

Train your heart to read beyond that which you find hard to stomach because when you converse with me on this forum, you are being prepared to take what you learn to the real world, where people are harsh, and want to get a reaction out of you.

Look past the harshness, it's well intended - see it for what it is, I want you to do better, and I will shout if I have to, but you can't hear me - and when flowery words have no impact, I pull no punches.

I used to go to Speakers Corner, a lot, Sometimes I even got involved in debate. That's where I saw how harsh the questioners can be. You want to make a change? take Islam to your streets and see how the attitudes of the people will deflate your drive unless you are well fortified with vitamins and can handle a little harsh objection.

So many weak Muslims today who crumble at the mention of "debate". if you truly want to be someone who can make a difference, you have to expect a lot of opposition from a variety of places.

If I am harsh, it's because you are weak. When you are strong, I will not have to be so inclined to write as I do. Because I will know that you have what it takes - to take what they got, examine it, correct it, and throw it back.

ANYWAY - FOR THE LAST DAMMMM TIME - GET BACK ON TOPIC, THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR ME LOL. Please bro, stop embarrassing yourself. I don't think you realise how much of a mess you've made in this this thread now.

A quick recap, before all your well intended advice, you also posted accusations which you have not proven, you've also attempted character assassination which you did just because you feel I have been harsh with you, you've not been consistent in anything you write, and have misled Allah knows how many vulnerable and insecure guests to this forum with your "opinions"... and to top it all off - you made this thread about you and me.

Bro - your ego needs checking.

My advice - STOP - NO MORE ABOUT YOU OR ABOUT ME - this thread is a joke because you made it about us lol.

STAY ON TOPIC OR DON'T POST

YA GET ME?

Scimi

[kiran29]

Assalamualaikum wr.wb, Bro @Scimitar , I'm sorry about this out of topic question. Where can I learn about this methodology of muslims in golden era?
Thank you. Wassalamualaikum.wr.wb.

[Scimitar]

Assalamualaikum wr.wb, Bro @Scimitar , I'm sorry about this out of topic question. Where can I learn about this methodology of muslims in golden era?
Thank you. Wassalamualaikum.wr.wb.

Walakum salaam Kiran29.

I'm thinking of making a thread about it this week in sha Allah, I hope you check back this week to see it.

For now though, I will say this as you may find it inspiring.

The golden age greats, were not usually scholars - but regular joe public like you and I. Regular Muslims who had interests in Science, Math, Astronomy, Physics, Medicine etc etc etc - and they had the Qur'an as their primary foundation and inference - this was it.

Other than that, the methods were all theirs :)

If you check out how Al Haythm took Ptolemy's shirk model of the universe and corrected it with Islamic inference of monotheism, and then find how this also corrected the mathematics, you will see something unbelievably subtle yet mindblowing - without Qur'an as prime foundation and inference, there is NO TRUTH you can believe. With Qur'an as prime foundation and inference - nothing is impossible to understand. Everything becomes possible.

Science is a rebellious teenager trying to fight her older brother, Islam. Once science grows up, she will learn to walk behind her elder brother with respect and humility.

Scimi

[aaj]

You accuse him of not searching further and having settled at his own conclusion as being the truth (which I agree with you), yet you do the same.by having a firm believe that yajuj and majuj have not being released. There are hints one could say they have been released so staying firm on "no they have not been released" or staying firm on "they have been released" are both wrong approaches if you ask me. As in both cases there is no FIRM conclusions either one is the absolute truth..so don't treat it as absolute conclusion..

It is the belief of the scholars and the jammah that they have not been released, rather they will be released after Esa (a.s.) will come. They are one of the major sins of the Hour. This is an Islamic fact. The fact people do not know this nor believe it and are looking at some superficial hints and trying to use their finite little brains to "think" and assume they know it is concerning. I will not waste my time trying to convince others of this if they think they are intellectually superior while willfully ignorant.

[Simple_Person]

It is the belief of the scholars and the jammah that they have not been released, rather they will be released after Esa (a.s.) will come. They are one of the major sins of the Hour. This is an Islamic fact. The fact people do not know this nor believe it and are looking at some superficial hints and trying to use their finite little brains to "think" and assume they know it is concerning. I will not waste my time trying to convince others of this if they think they are intellectually superior while willfully ignorant.

Well to be honest, what i find very strange is that i see very few scholars that dig in the Islamic Eschatology. I only know of English speaking scholar Sheikh Imran Hossein. I agree with some of his points and disagree with other points of his. However that is about that, i am not sure if you know of others even non-English speakers who dig in to this subject?

[aaj]

Well to be honest, what i find very strange is that i see very few scholars that dig in the Islamic Eschatology. I only know of English speaking scholar Sheikh Imran Hossein. I agree with some of his points and disagree with other points of his. However that is about that, i am not sure if you know of others even non-English speakers who dig in to this subject?

I've heard all the lectures of imran regarding this topic and i've read more authentic material from more reliable scholars and equally listened to other sheikhs and scholars. I do not think Imran is that reliable, he quotes weak narrations and some of the stuff he stated contradicted what Islam says. So I don't take from him when more authentic information is available else where. Go to islamqa.com or islamweb.net or other similar sites, you will find more reliable information there.

https://islamqa.info/en/2281 - see (4) Ya'jooj and Ma'jooj (Gog and Magog)
https://library.islamweb.net/en/arti...ns-of-the-hour

Listen to Mufti menk or green or other similar speakers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTxZLB7qTS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nACVwsFhOZ0

[kiran29]

Walakum salaam Kiran29.

I'm thinking of making a thread about it this week in sha Allah, I hope you check back this week to see it.

For now though, I will say this as you may find it inspiring.

The golden age greats, were not usually scholars - but regular joe public like you and I. Regular Muslims who had interests in Science, Math, Astronomy, Physics, Medicine etc etc etc - and they had the Qur'an as their primary foundation and inference - this was it.

Other than that, the methods were all theirs :)

If you check out how Al Haythm took Ptolemy's shirk model of the universe and corrected it with Islamic inference of monotheism, and then find how this also corrected the mathematics, you will see something unbelievably subtle yet mindblowing - without Qur'an as prime foundation and inference, there is NO TRUTH you can believe. With Qur'an as prime foundation and inference - nothing is impossible to understand. Everything becomes possible.

Science is a rebellious teenager trying to fight her older brother, Islam. Once science grows up, she will learn to walk behind her elder brother with respect and humility.

Scimi

Thank you for your reply brother, May Allah guides all of us, makes us easy to learn the Qur'an by our hearts, so we won't go astray. Ameen.

[Simple_Person]

Minor update: Syria's Biggest Dam Partially Collapses Due to SDF-Daesh Fight Near Raqqa

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/2...qqa-sdf-daesh/

On the other hand there are claims that there isn't any damage to the dam.
https://twitter.com/sayed_ridha/stat...32568042889216

However again ISIS has shown photos of the control room.
https://twitter.com/CT_operative/sta...04071882883073

I am no expert on how a dam works. As far as i know by logic, is that the gates are being closed and opened to let the water go through. Which for example if the amount of water that comes in is more than usually, the gates would be opened further to let more water out. If these pictures of ISIS are legit, one could say either two things gonna happen.

By controls they are not able to open or close gates. Maybe manually? Which i guess they must have some secondary backup (manual)-controls to still be able to open and close the gates or else it would be a very poor job in constructing such a dam as it might not be sort of fail-proof.

However the winter is just over and the amount of snow melting i guess is also a fact. So somebody has to control those gates either by those controls (if they are damaged) than manually doing it. Allah knows best.

[Simple_Person]

Update: https://twitter.com/AriMuradNew/stat...09982566957057

https://twitter.com/M1Massoud/status/847104096637255680

[Brother_40805]

It would be great if someone could make a thread purely discussing the Minor and Major signs if I haven't already skipped one that exists already (please let me know). Its a valuable topic for all muslims and non-muslims.

[Simple_Person]

I now and then re-read the sings of the end times and often you will notice something that you have not noticed it before.

What i noticed was in this hadith.
=======Hadith===================
"I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: 'The Hour will not begin until the sun rises from the west (ie the place of its setting). When it rises, the people will see it, and everyone on (earth) will believe, but that will be at a time when faith will not benefit anyone who did not believe before. ' "

Source used: https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah/36/143
==============================

I myself for a time have divided people not according to religion, but rather to "honest" and "dishonest" people. With that i said i have trust in my Rab that He will save his honest servants from the hell fire.

From those honest and dishonest people why they do not believe is according to my understanding let's say because of two things...

- Dishonest person - He sees and acknowledges everything that refers to Islam but out of pride/arrogance/denial or whatever rejects Islam.
- Honest person - he is not really busy with religion at all. Even if you would rather want to start a discussion or a talk about discussion it is as if you bother that individual. When something occurs in his/her life then they start pondering and investigating and when seeing the truth, they accept it. But till then they don't.

I must correct myself on that. Rasullah(saws) says "and everyone on (earth) will believe, but that will be at a time when faith will not benefit anyone who did not believe before. '"

The sun rising from the west is one of the major signs. Besides the major signs there are the lesser/minor signs. According to our fitrah we must already be disturbed by lesser/minor signs. What do i mean with this? When you notice somebody being a liar your whole inner soul rejects this bad deed questions the state of the world we are in. When you see men and women doing things that your fitrah usually rejects yet not doing or saying anything. When you see injustice but do not stand up against injustice with AT LEAST your heart. All these things are already sort of a initiation of your fitrah wanting to get away from it so to say.

To take myself as an example. I in the past saw things and witnessed things that were going against logic. Women now a days if you treat them like a bag of garbage they like you (bad boy type), but if you respect them and acknowledge them and be good to them they despise you (good guy). When one experiences a broken heart you NEVER want to experience that ever again. Yet people just go from one boyfriend/girlfriend to another. People deceiving other people or falsely accused and nobody saying anything. When somebody hurt, instead of somebody calling a ambulance or trying to help, everybody is looking like tourist to capture the gruesome event in their brain..but that individual keeps suffering. In that time i rather became all depressed and wanted to engage less in society. Because i knew for myself if i engaged with them i would become like them in all those things and i KNEW my desires would overpower me..but i just rejected it.

When these things despite you being a honest person you do not question at least in your thoughts, then something is wrong with you. In the past as an atheist i thought men and women could be friends, but a logical argument proved to me that i was wrong. In the past i didn't really pay any attention of women being dressed but naked..i rather saw that as something normal. However with so many things, despite the things that i "found" normal other things did made me question and later on even the things i found "normal" i started to question. After that off course your path to research is opened and if honestly looking Allah will also open your way to Islam.

Now if those people still with the minor signs do not feel anything..not even 1 action or deed being off and start questioning things..then one is lost you could say. You being honest or dishonest. With the major signs coming they will come one after another very fast. When one believes before one can expand his/her knowledge and STRENGTHEN their imaan. When dajjal arrives, one's imaan has been building up for some time so even even if he comes and you must choose, one who has imaan despite what he sees, ..that is the moment of "blind believe" in Allah and we ONLY seeing Allah after our death. No more logic, rationality or reason. The people who THEN believe in God, that is too late for them. As they cannot strengthen their imaan. I remember when i just reverted back to Islam, i still had many questions..from skull and bones that were found to accusations about Islam. So having questions is rather satisfying the mind (logic, rationality and reason). With that my imaan became stronger that i am on the right path. However if one believes and you still have some questions and dajjal arrives he gives you VERY logical, rational and reasonable answers that you even see with your own eyes.

"Have you not considered the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord [merely] because Allah had given him kingship? When Abraham said, "My Lord is the one who gives life and causes death," he said, "I give life and cause death." Abraham said, "Indeed, Allah brings up the sun from the east, so bring it up from the west." So the disbeliever was overwhelmed [by astonishment], and Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people." Qur'an 2:258

If dajjal does exactly those signs as we know he will cut a man in to two and make him whole again. The sun as one of the major signs will come up from the west and he probably will be using that event as if he has done that or Allah giving him the ability to do that so that everybody that has no imaan..be misguided. On the Day of Judgement people having NO argument..as they have followed dajjal and committed shirk..the ONLY sin Allah does NOT forgive. Indeed we are our own enemies. Truth is clear from falsehood.